February 10, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode, host Dr. Almitra Berry welcomes author Tonya Duncan Ellis, the brilliant creator of the bestselling Sophie Washington book series and the picture book "They Built Me for Freedom." Tonya shares how her personal experiences and the rich history of Black culture inspired her work, which celebrates identity and engages young readers in meaningful conversations about freedom. The discussion explores the vital role of storytelling in shaping our understanding of America's Black history and the importance of representation for children of color.
Tonya Duncan Ellis is author of the bestselling Sophie Washington children's chapter book series and THEY BUILT ME FOR FREEDOM (Balzer + Bray an imprint of Harper Collins, 2024) She is a member of the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators (SCBWI), the Authors Guild, Black Creators in KidLit, and the Brown Bookshelf's Highlights Foundation-sponsored, Amplify Black Stories storyteller cohort. In 2021, she won the Austin SCBWI Cynthia Leitich Smith Writing Mentor Award. She is a 2022 winner of SCBWI's Independently Published Book Launch Marketing Grant. Represented by Sara Megibow of KT Literary, Tonya holds an MBA degree from Washington University in St. Louis and a BA degree in French from Centre College of Kentucky. She lives in Houston, Texas and is married with three children.
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Unknown (00:00):
If you're a parent, teacher or school leader and
(00:03):
you're sick and tired of thefrustration, anger and unfair
treatment of children at highrisk in our public schools, then
perhaps it's time for all of usto do something about it. In
this podcast, Dr amitra Berrybrings you tips, tools,
strategies and tactics to buildsuccessful solutions while
(00:25):
touching, moving and inspiringall of us to transform our
schools so that every childthrives. Here's your host, Dr
Bay,as we kick off black history and
black futures month, I'm excitedto welcome Tonya Duncan Ellis,
the brilliant author of The BestSelling Sophie Washington series
and her latest picture book theybuilt me for freedom. Tanya's
(00:48):
work not only celebrates therich history of black culture,
but also engages young readersin meaningful conversations
about freedom and identity. SoI'm glad you're here today to
join us as we explore aninspiring journey and the vital
role of storytelling in shapingour understanding and the truth
of America's Black history.
(01:11):
Tanya, thanks so much forjoining me today. Well, thank
you so much for having me. DrBailey, I'm excited to be here.
I am excited about books thattell the truth of the
what I call, or what's called,the hard history that is often
not shared. So I want to ask youfirst, how did this come about?
(01:33):
Was there a a moment in yourlife that influenced your work?
That's a very good question.
With the particular book theybuilt me for freedom, is that
what you're referring to? Yeah,yes. It came about when I took
what I call an author's fieldtrip. I periodically visit
historical spaces in differentplaces, just for inspiration.
(01:54):
And this was before Juneteenthwas a national holiday. I
decided I had read somethingabout emancipation park in the
online, and I said, let me takea visit to this place. I've
passed it many times on my wayto church and going through the
third ward in Houston. So I wentdown to the park, and I actually
(02:16):
got chills when I was walking onthe ground, imagining my
ancestors walking those groundsand celebrating their freedom.
And I looked at the signemancipation park. There's a
sign there indicating, and someof the lines from the book came
to me when I was there. And Ithis need people need to know
(02:36):
about this place. So Iimmediately went home, started
doing research and wrote some ofthe first drafts of my book.
They built me for freedom.
Wow, that is, yeah, I know whenI visited emancipation Park. And
you know, for listeners who'venever been to Houston, if you do
come to Houston, please go justwalking those grounds and
(02:58):
understanding the history ofthat neighborhood and the things
that happen here in what we youknow, what we call Houston, as
far as the history of blackpeople post emancipation. And if
you can do it on Juneteenth,come Juneteenth week, and spend
the week between Galveston andHouston just exploring that
history,it will give you chills, maybe
make you cry, but definitelyit it does something to our
(03:24):
souls, I think when we walk inthose spaces, right? And then it
was interesting to me that youcalled it hard history, because
for me, I really thought of itas a place of joy, and looking
at the beautiful art and justthinking about people
celebrating their freedom andtheir rights in that space,
(03:45):
yeah, today, yeah. So hardhistory, not my term, really, is
about the history that,basically that white people find
hard to accept, wrap their armsaround and incorporate into
American history as it's taughtin school. So we keep that label
hard history to remind you, notyou, but to remind folks that
(04:07):
this may not be easy for you tosit with, but there's a reason
that you need to sit with it.
There's a reason that ourchildren need to learn this
history and understand that itis part of America's history, no
matter how uncomfortable itmakes you. And I like to remind
folks that just because thismakes you uncomfortable, or as
(04:29):
this makes you uncomfortable,think about how uncomfortable
children of color are, whetherthey're black children or
indigenous children, Chinesechildren, as their history in
this country is ignored, erased,whitewashed, and so you know,
for you to be bringing the wordsand the storytelling of your
(04:50):
characters to life is just, Ithink it's critical, especially
for teachers. Teachers, if youhave budget, you know classroom
budget, these are books you canbuy for your classroom.
Them, and certainly parents, andwe're going to make sure that
they have a link. There is alink to your website down in the
notes, so folks can click onthat and go right, right to your
work.
(05:13):
I see educational equity in alot of things and in the themes
of your book,the idea that it's not just a
story, but that everybody'sstory should have weight to it.
Did any of that occur to you asyou were writing, or was this
(05:34):
really just a personalinspiration and journey? Well,
one inspiration for writing thisbook, I read a lot of other
authors, children's authors,works, and one author I greatly
admire is Kelly Starling Lyons.
She writes one of the books thatshe wrote that inspired me to
start writing picture books wascalled, it's called sing a song,
(05:54):
and it tells the history of theNegro national anthem, and it
goes through time from theconception of the song. It talks
about black history and Americanhistory. And I was so moved when
I heard her read the book aloudat a children's literature
conference. It was via zoom. Wewere all crying. Everyone there.
(06:15):
There was not a dry eye there.
And I said, I want to writeimpactful works like this. So
that was kind of what led me towant to write a book like they
built me for freedom, because itmade me proud to be an African
American woman. It made me proudof my history and my culture,
and it was teaching everyonethere, you know, these struggles
(06:39):
that African Americans facethrough the journey she takes us
on in that particular book. So Isought to write something like
that, and that was when I wentto the park. I'm like, This is a
story that needs to be told.
Yeah. So, you know, here inTexas, there are book bands.
They are all over the countryeven, there are a few districts,
even in California, that hasbanned some books. So I don't
(07:02):
know if you've been notifiedthat your books are banned
anywhere, but my I would justventure a guess that if they
have seen them somewhere wherethey're doing this, they're
probably you might be on thelist. How can educators
classroom teachers, how can theyuse your books to promote
inclusivity and culturalawareness, even if they are
(07:26):
somewhere where maybe theremight be some political
pushback?
Well, to fight the pushback, I'mpart of some author groups who
work to suppress book banning,and they challenge all of us to
write our politicians, beinvolved in school board
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meetings and events so that wecan be a part of the solution.
I've actually last year here inHouston, they turned school
libraries into detention centersand laid off a lot of
librarians, so I was on thefront lines protesting those
activities, but just makingparents aware of what's going
(08:10):
on, sharing stories. And I knowa lot of them are in fear for
their jobs, you know, so it'sreally difficult for them. I
urge parents to support thelibrarians and educators and
just stay aware of what's goingon, because these are small
groups. Any of the books, thebook I just mentioned sing a
(08:31):
song, it's been on banned list.
There are books. There's onecalled Little leaders, which
just shows historical figureslike Mae Jemison, Oprah Winfrey,
even it's been banned. And it'sany of these books that are
affirming children of color andof different races, they're just
sweeping through and banningthem. I urge teachers to make
(08:51):
parents aware and enlist theirsupport, because it's hard for
them. A lot of them are on thefront lines, and their jobs are
in danger. Yeah, so because it'shard for them, there's even a
school, a title, one school,that I volunteer at in
Galveston. And you know, thelibrarian, she doesn't have the
(09:12):
ability to bring forth some ofthese books, certain books,
without approval for so the mainthing is kind of make parents
aware. A lot of them are noteven aware of what's going on.
I've done events in Katy, Texas,which is kind of like a hotbed
of book banning, and parentswere actually crying tears. We
brought in Jerry craft, whowrote a book called new kid that
(09:33):
just talks about AfricanAmerican children in a private
school, and they were not awareof what's going on. So I think
helping get awareness out sothat people even realize what's
going on. Because many of thebooks that have been banned,
they all they do is shareaffirming stories about people
loving themselves. They're notreally controversial, in my
(09:56):
mind, and it's kind of small.
All political groups coming in,going into communities where
many of them don't even live,and getting these campaigns
going to ban books. Yeah, one ofthose groups is moms for
liberty, and I've done severalepisodes where I address who
they are and what they're doing.
And so, you know, I'm glad thatyou are actively involved in
(10:19):
this, and can can share someinsights on what folks can do.
We have to recognize that this,this, this happens because they
have organized around justremoving books. I mean, if they
can, they have removed booksabout Rosa Parks, about Martin
Luther King. So even even theblack figures that they have
(10:40):
historically embraced, theystill don't want those books in
in the classroom, so parentsneed to be involved. These,
these groups are putting forwardpeople to run for school board
and a lot of times, school boardelections are won by, you know,
a 50, 100 votes. You know,school board elections don't
(11:00):
turn people out by the 10s of1000s, and if we're not paying
attention, these are the peoplethey are putting into school
boards, and they're the onesthat are approving these book
bans. So, so important forparents to be involved there.
Tell us a little bit about theSophie Washington series. So the
Sophie Washington series istween chapter book series.
Sophie is 11 years old. Thereare 13 books in the series, and
(11:24):
each book has Sophie and friendsdealing with different problems
that tweens face, like makingfriends, managing social media
and video game play, standing upto bullies, just learning
different things that tweenstalking about different issues
they experience, and they learnabout entrepreneurship and
(11:45):
different things in each book.
So it's been it's been a funride. I self published the
series, and I've actually soldover 175,000
copies in scholastic bought therights to my book Sophie
Washington, code one in 2021 fora STEM program,
(12:06):
which is kind of funny, becauseI am not like a heavy tech
person, but I kids love videogames. I have two sons and a
daughter, and I would becamejust fascinated with coding
because I thought, well, as muchas you love to play on these
games, maybe you can somethinguseful from it. Wrote a book
(12:26):
about coding. So scholasticapproached me and put it in a
STEM program they have forgirls. That is awesome, and I
had not made that connection tostem. So, you know, I do a
little bit of work with withSTEM, and I'm going to make sure
that I get a copy of that one,and that I bring that forward
when I'm speaking to especiallyto black stem audiences. You
(12:47):
know, there's a whole blackeducators of stem that we want
to make sure and please bug me,I want to make that connection
for you, not just in person, butwe can get that done right away.
That's really important, as wellas the there are some black STEM
schools here in Houston, and Iwant to make sure you know that
you connect with those peoplethere. So Tonya, stay on me, and
(13:08):
we'll make sure that we makethose connections for you. I
love that. And the tween spaceis so I did an episode A while
back with someone about justnavigating that tween space as a
parent. So for children of colorwho are tweens, to have a series
of books that that are focusedand built around people who look
like them, right? So critical,yeah. And I have many readers
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who have identified with Sophie.
They dress as her. They've sentme pictures. I have a book
Sophie, Washington hurricane,where she wears a pink cowboy
hat and a Houston strong shirt,and I've had kids dressed like
that. I have a book called thesnitch, and it has a pose with
Sophie putting her finger overher mouth like because she's
saying she has a secret. AndI've had a lot of kids dressed
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up as that. So that's been a lotof fun, and it's a relatable
series that will keep childrenengaged in reading. And I know
my kids, my youngest, especiallyhe didn't like to read, and that
was one of my inspirations forthe series, because any of the
books were not relatable to himthat I would share. And so this
is something a lot of parentshave written me letters thanking
(14:18):
me, because these are books thattheir children can relate to and
keep them excited about readingthat is so interesting. You
know, I thought, as you weretalking about that, I'm
thinking, I don't have my kidsare adults. I have a grandson,
but he's a junior in or, yeah,God, he's a junior in high
school this year. But I do havetwo great nieces who are still
(14:40):
in that tween space. So I thinkwhen we finish up today, I'll be
ordering the whole series forthe two of them, twin grand twin
grand nieces. I think that thatthose stories will be just
inspiring and perfect for them.
A lot of times, folks don'trealize the power of
representation.
Okay, and seeing yourself doingpositive things, portrayed in a
(15:04):
positive manner, and dealingwith the issues that that every
child, or all children, manychildren, deal with, it is one
of the four indicators of equitythat I have in my work. Is
seeing yourself, whether it's inthe context of regular like
science or math curriculum orliterature, whatever it is our
(15:26):
children need to see themselves.
So bringing these books forwardis critical, and I you know, if
I can share, and I'd love yourfeedback and what your feelings
are this whole effort to banbooks of diverse characters, not
even historical characters, justdiverse characters. To me, seems
to be a concerted effort to makesure that a black and brown cast
(15:50):
that is politically oppressed,that is economically oppressed,
that is educationally oppressed,is is built and maintained in
this country to the benefita bunch of white right wing
zealots. I'm just gonna say itas plainly as I can, going back
(16:12):
to as as close as they can, tosomething that is akin to
slavery without it actuallybeing enslaving people, but
creating that, that that groupof people that are oppressed.
It's really sad, because whenyou think of Frederick Douglass
as saying, when you learn toread, you'll be forever, be
forever free, right? And it'skind of it's hurting people of
(16:35):
all races, not just people ofcolor, when our children are
ignorant of American history andwe're trying to hide a facet of
American history. And again,talking about books being
relatable, I have there was achild, a little girl who's a
friend of my youngest son andthe teacher, they all had high
(16:56):
reading levels. She provided herrole of thunder. Hear My Cry
when she was very great, which Ilove that book. It's one of my
favorite books. But the littlegirl was crying because she's a
Suburban Girl in Houston, theonly book they just saw black
people on the cover and give herthe story, which has a lot of
trauma It does, yeah, terriblerelating to it, because that's
(17:19):
not her lived experience. And sowhen you look through,
especially when I grew up, thereweren't books that featured
black girls, little blackAmerican girls going through
just daily things. Most of themwere trauma stories, either they
were inner city with all kindsof struggles and trauma, or
slaves or share croppers andthings like that. So it's
(17:41):
important for our children tosee themselves in all
situations, and that history isimportant. We need to keep that
history. We need to know ourhistory, but we also need books
that our children can relate toin the modern times as well.
Yeah, you know, as you saidthat, I thought back to when I
was a child. I did have a coupleof amazing teachers, and I had
(18:04):
my own personal trauma that Ilived through. I saw my father
was killed when I was seven. Iwas there, right? So I had a
couple, you know, one inparticular, and I talk about her
all the time. She's my thirdgrade teacher, Mrs. Gowdy. The
year after all of that traumawas when I had her and she fed
me books that had black and thatwas a white woman. She gave me
(18:24):
books constantly I was wellabove grade level, so these
books where I could see positiveimages of black people, and in
particular, of black men. But asI you were talking, I'm
thinking, what was the firstbook I read about someone black
who was my age, and it wassounder, okay, right, right. So
I can't even remember, it'sabout a dog, isn't it? It's
(18:48):
sounder. Was the dog, but it's ablack sharecropping family. Oh,
right. So again, we get to that,you know, what? Are we either
slaves or sharecroppers? And,well, granted, yes, I am
descended from from enslavedpeople and sharecroppers, you
know, andbut still, that wasn't my lived
experience, but it was the onlything I had about someone who
(19:10):
was my age,but I was a city girl. I
couldn't connect, you know,living as a sharecropper, it
just it didn't relate. So I am,you know, over the moon,
thrilled that your books exist.
I just, you know, way, if Iwanted books about people my age
(19:32):
as a child, they were typicallywhite. I mean, I read every
Nancy, Drew book that was everwritten because that was what
was there. But still, there wereso many things. There are so
many things in that, in thatseries that that children of
color, black children inparticular, will never be able
to relate to because our livedexperience is so different.
(19:54):
Yeah, my husband was sharingwith me, and he loves to read,
but he reads mostly historical.
I.
Fiction and biographies. And hesaid, growing up, he liked
historical books because hedidn't relate to the characters
in most of the fictional booksand things that he was in
school. Yeah, they just weren'tthere for us.
(20:17):
How do you approach? How do yougo about some of the sensitive
topics, especially in that tweenspace. How do you do that in a
way that entertains and engagesthem? But at the same time as
educational Can you share asecret?
I don't know if there's reallysee, I just try to write things
(20:37):
as they are. When I write books,I don't set out to be preachy or
didactic in what I'm doing so,and there's a lot of humor in in
problems. You know, that's howyou know the song tears of clan,
and a lot of things that ourkids do are funny and
(20:59):
entertaining. And during thetime that I was writing the
Sophie Washington series, as Isaid, I'm a three, my kids were
around the ages of thecharacters, so just I kind of
was in their their fictionalbooks, but the situations mimic
some of the things that theyexperienced during those times.
And it was, it was just fun forme to write about these
(21:21):
characters and create littleworlds and situations for them,
and I have them do things therein spelling bee, there's a
holiday book they go to CostaRica. So even though they learn
lessons on being a good friend,one, they have plagiarism, one,
you know, they have, it's kindof like a sitcom type
(21:43):
where they wrap it up in the endof the story, but they have fun
things too. The brother likes toplay pranks on Sophie, and I've
been asked to make a spin offabout her little brother, Cole,
because he loves to tell jokesand do little funny things
throughout the book. So it'skind of a fun time. You know
they're joyous fun stories, eventhough they do teach lessons
(22:05):
about situations.
So I don't have that gift of ofcreating brilliant narrative. I
write expository teacherprofessional development books.
How would when did you know thatyou had this gift. It started
early for me, because I alwaysloved to read, and my mom would
(22:27):
take me to the library once aweek, and I'd have a bag of
books and read all those. SoI've always loved to read, and
in fifth grade, I won a writingcompetition at my school, and my
teachers encouraged me. Andactually, just last week, I went
back to my old school and did anauthor visit, because I do
author visits with children, sothat was so cool to have that
(22:49):
full circle moment going back tothe school that I went to. So I
worked also in journalism. Aftercollege, we didn't have school
visits when I was growing upwhere I met authors that seemed
kind of out of the realm ofpossibility for me, but I just
always have loved story. I readall the time. Now I read up to
(23:10):
60 books a year, fiction, nonfiction. I'm always reading. And
when my kids were little, Iwould tell them bedtime stories
and just make up great storiesfor them all the time, and they
actually with the SophieWashington series. When I
started writing them, I wouldread them part of it for bedtime
stories.
(23:32):
Okay, let's go. Oh, well, hey.
But they would be like, oh, youknow, this is boring, or kids
don't talk like that, anddifferent things, so they would
help me when we were writingthose stories.
So for parents who might belistening to this, if they have
a child who likes to tellstories, we'll put it that way.
(23:55):
Is this something you think thatparents should think about early
and, you know, create, helpcreate those experiences. And
for teachers, when you're you'refinding that you've got a child
who's a little more creative,yeah, I think you can help
encourage that by my mother usedto buy me diaries because she
doesn't really read that much,but she always took me to the
library where I could get books.
So I think providing access tobooks giving them journals and
(24:19):
different things to let themwrite that helped keep me going
with my creativity and with myown kids. There are different
activities here in Houston.
There's something called writersin the schools, and in the
summer, I my kids, actually,none of the three of them like
writing that much, but I hadthem involved in things like
(24:42):
that when they were younger.
Okay, any others that you cansuggest for parents who might be
listening? I also always hadthem participate in the library
reading, you know, the summerreading programs in bookstores
and libraries where they couldread and get prizes because.
Reading is the key to goodwriting as well, because for me,
(25:04):
it came very instinctive, eventhough I think I am more gifted
in writing and I've just alwaysloved it, but because I read so
much, it's very easy for me tojust sense how stories should
be. Even before I startedwriting for children, I kind of
had a sense of how things shouldbe, and I love poetry and just
(25:25):
playing with because when you'rewriting, even picture books,
even though there's only 32pages and from 500 to 1000
words, it's kind of like puttinga puzzle together when you're
trying to come up with theperfect way to tell the story,
because you have to think it'sgoing to be read aloud. There's
images with the picture book,you know, with your words. So
(25:47):
there's a lot that goes intowriting a good picture book for
children. Yeah, I bet I lovedoing read aloud for little
kids. It's like when I do whenI've done school visits and in
my consulting work, usually it'saround English language arts and
reading. So my favorite thing isto get in there and be able to
do circle time and read. And asa sixth grade teacher, even I
(26:09):
did read aloud to my sixthgraders, they got on the carpet
and, you know, did the wholecriss cross applesauce. You
know, for my kids, a lot of itwas because they were not
reading at grade level, and sogetting literature into them
meant that a lot of it had to beread aloud until, you know, till
they got to a point where theycould really engage in grade
level, appropriate Lexile levelreading. But just having books
(26:34):
in the classroom for them, evenif they were, you know, four
years, four or five years belowgrade level, they were starting
to pick up books that love ofliterature can still be
developed.
Curious if you know whether ornot your books are used in the
Freedom Schools, the summerschools. Actually, this summer,
I went to a freedom school herein Houston, and they had, like,
(26:57):
a 60 year anniversary, and I dida reading there to Freedom
School with the children, sothey're going to incorporate
them in to that that I wasintroduced to that this summer.
Yeah, for those of you notfamiliar with freedom schools, I
know I did an episode on it awhile back, but I ran into
someone just in the last coupleof weeks that is part of the
(27:18):
freedom schools here in Houston,and we had this conversation so
it just just struck me that theyshould be using your books. And
so if you're involved with afreedom school somewhere other
than Houston, make sure you letthem know about Tanya Duncan
Ellis and give them a link toher website so they can check
out those books. They'reperfect, I think, for inspiring
(27:38):
our children in the summer.
Um, I have one last question foryou, and it's one that I ask
every guest. Dr Angela Davisonce said, I am changing the
things I cannot accept. So whatis the something that you cannot
accept? And how can listenershelp support change in that
area? Something that's troublingfor me is that many of the books
(28:03):
that I would share with my kidsthat featured African American
characters weren't written byAfrican American writers, and so
that was disturbing to me when Ilooked at the statistics, and
things have been moving in adifferent direction in recent
years, the publishing industryhas become more aware of this,
but I urge parents, when they'relooking at books, to check out
(28:26):
who the author is, becausethere's so many. Even with my
own youngest son, who Imentioned, doesn't like to read,
didn't like to read a lot as achild, I was showing him one
that had a little black boy onthe cover, and I said, Oh, you
love this. You'll he's playingbasketball. You not to be
stereotypical, but he did.
And then when I saw who theauthor was, I'm like, This is
why he doesn't relate to it.
Because things in the book Iread it, they were not
(28:49):
relatable, and they put a personof color on the cover. I don't
know if the author had a hand inthat or not. They may not, but
I've been seeing, you know, Isee that a lot is kind of
upsetting to me. So I encourageauthors, black authors, to try
to get involved in thetraditional publishing space.
Learn, because we have many whodo self publishing, but learn
(29:12):
that their books and their workcan be included as well. Yes,
absolutely, absolutely. It issomething that I deal with in
the work that I do withpublishers in you know, the
literature that they acquire isdon't just tell stories of
children of color. I don't careif they're black, they're
Latina, indigenous. They need tobe written by people of that
(29:34):
culture, so that you're reallygetting an understanding of the
full character and their livedexperience. So thank you for
that, and to continue on withthat, it has changed in recent
years, but I used to followstatistics in around 2020, 2021,
less than half of the bookschildren's books that featured
(29:57):
black.
Characters were written by blackauthors. And this was not the
same. In other groups, they hadup to 90% 95 but for African
Americans, it was less than halfof those books that starred in
African American character werewritten by an a black author.
Yeah. I remember reading thatsame data, yeah. So it is
(30:21):
something that we need to doabout, do something about. So if
there is, let's say there's ablack author who's hearing this
podcast, can they contact youfor partnership, for guidance,
forWell, I do do consulting with
authors. I do paid consulting,because I also do mentorships
through different programs, likeWe Need Diverse Books and other
(30:42):
organizations, so I offermentorships through those I
don't have time to answer allthe quick because I lot of
questions for people. But I alsorecommend that if they're truly
interested in writing forchildren, they join groups like
the Society of Children's BookWriters and Illustrators, which
(31:03):
teaches you the craft of writingfor children. And on my
Instagram feed, at Tanya Ellisbooks, I have all kinds of free
tips on writing for children andsteps to take if you're
interested in entering thetraditionally published space or
even self publishing. So I do,and I do provide paid
(31:27):
mentorships and consultation aswell. Okay, good. Yes, you have
value. Your intellect and yourknowledge has value. So make
sure that you that, folks, ifyou're going to talk to her,
recognize and respect the valuethat she brings. I encourage
everyone within the sound of myvoice to explore Tanya Duncan
(31:49):
Ellis's incredible work andconsider how her books can
enrich your understanding ofcultural awareness and
inclusivity in education, instorytelling. Her website is
Tonya Duncan ellis.comcheck out those latest releases.
Check out the Sophie series, andremember that every story has
the power to inspire change. Andthen join me again next episode
(32:13):
as we continue to advocate foreducational equity, let's make a
difference together. Don'tforget to subscribe and share,
and until next time, remember,don't worry about the things you
cannot change. Change the thingsyou can no longer accept. And
that's a wrap for today'sepisode of the 3e podcast. Now
here's how you can make a realdifference. First, smash that
(32:34):
subscribe button. It's free.
It's easy, just do it. Second,share the show with anyone you
know who cares about education,and third, consider becoming a
supporter of the show together,we're not just talking about
change, we're making it happen.
Make a donation today to be partof that mission and change, and
I'll catch you next time you.
If you're a parent, teacher or school leader and
(00:03):
you're sick and tired of thefrustration, anger and unfair
treatment of children at highrisk in our public schools, then
perhaps it's time for all of usto do something about it. In
this podcast, Dr amitra Berrybrings you tips, tools,
strategies and tactics to buildsuccessful solutions while
(00:25):
touching, moving and inspiringall of us to transform our
schools so that every childthrives. Here's your host, Dr
Bay,as we kick off black history and
black futures month, I'm excitedto welcome Tonya Duncan Ellis,
the brilliant author of The BestSelling Sophie Washington series
and her latest picture book theybuilt me for freedom. Tanya's
(00:48):
work not only celebrates therich history of black culture,
but also engages young readersin meaningful conversations
about freedom and identity. SoI'm glad you're here today to
join us as we explore aninspiring journey and the vital
role of storytelling in shapingour understanding and the truth
of America's Black history.
(01:11):
Tanya, thanks so much forjoining me today. Well, thank
you so much for having me. DrBailey, I'm excited to be here.
I am excited about books thattell the truth of the
what I call, or what's called,the hard history that is often
not shared. So I want to ask youfirst, how did this come about?
(01:33):
Was there a a moment in yourlife that influenced your work?
That's a very good question.
With the particular book theybuilt me for freedom, is that
what you're referring to? Yeah,yes. It came about when I took
what I call an author's fieldtrip. I periodically visit
historical spaces in differentplaces, just for inspiration.
(01:54):
And this was before Juneteenthwas a national holiday. I
decided I had read somethingabout emancipation park in the
online, and I said, let me takea visit to this place. I've
passed it many times on my wayto church and going through the
third ward in Houston. So I wentdown to the park, and I actually
(02:16):
got chills when I was walking onthe ground, imagining my
ancestors walking those groundsand celebrating their freedom.
And I looked at the signemancipation park. There's a
sign there indicating, and someof the lines from the book came
to me when I was there. And Ithis need people need to know
(02:36):
about this place. So Iimmediately went home, started
doing research and wrote some ofthe first drafts of my book.
They built me for freedom.
Wow, that is, yeah, I know whenI visited emancipation Park. And
you know, for listeners who'venever been to Houston, if you do
come to Houston, please go justwalking those grounds and
(02:58):
understanding the history ofthat neighborhood and the things
that happen here in what we youknow, what we call Houston, as
far as the history of blackpeople post emancipation. And if
you can do it on Juneteenth,come Juneteenth week, and spend
the week between Galveston andHouston just exploring that
history,it will give you chills, maybe
make you cry, but definitelyit it does something to our
(03:24):
souls, I think when we walk inthose spaces, right? And then it
was interesting to me that youcalled it hard history, because
for me, I really thought of itas a place of joy, and looking
at the beautiful art and justthinking about people
celebrating their freedom andtheir rights in that space,
(03:45):
yeah, today, yeah. So hardhistory, not my term, really, is
about the history that,basically that white people find
hard to accept, wrap their armsaround and incorporate into
American history as it's taughtin school. So we keep that label
hard history to remind you, notyou, but to remind folks that
(04:07):
this may not be easy for you tosit with, but there's a reason
that you need to sit with it.
There's a reason that ourchildren need to learn this
history and understand that itis part of America's history, no
matter how uncomfortable itmakes you. And I like to remind
folks that just because thismakes you uncomfortable, or as
(04:29):
this makes you uncomfortable,think about how uncomfortable
children of color are, whetherthey're black children or
indigenous children, Chinesechildren, as their history in
this country is ignored, erased,whitewashed, and so you know,
for you to be bringing the wordsand the storytelling of your
(04:50):
characters to life is just, Ithink it's critical, especially
for teachers. Teachers, if youhave budget, you know classroom
budget, these are books you canbuy for your classroom.
Them, and certainly parents, andwe're going to make sure that
they have a link. There is alink to your website down in the
notes, so folks can click onthat and go right, right to your
work.
(05:13):
I see educational equity in alot of things and in the themes
of your book,the idea that it's not just a
story, but that everybody'sstory should have weight to it.
Did any of that occur to you asyou were writing, or was this
(05:34):
really just a personalinspiration and journey? Well,
one inspiration for writing thisbook, I read a lot of other
authors, children's authors,works, and one author I greatly
admire is Kelly Starling Lyons.
She writes one of the books thatshe wrote that inspired me to
start writing picture books wascalled, it's called sing a song,
(05:54):
and it tells the history of theNegro national anthem, and it
goes through time from theconception of the song. It talks
about black history and Americanhistory. And I was so moved when
I heard her read the book aloudat a children's literature
conference. It was via zoom. Wewere all crying. Everyone there.
(06:15):
There was not a dry eye there.
And I said, I want to writeimpactful works like this. So
that was kind of what led me towant to write a book like they
built me for freedom, because itmade me proud to be an African
American woman. It made me proudof my history and my culture,
and it was teaching everyonethere, you know, these struggles
(06:39):
that African Americans facethrough the journey she takes us
on in that particular book. So Isought to write something like
that, and that was when I wentto the park. I'm like, This is a
story that needs to be told.
Yeah. So, you know, here inTexas, there are book bands.
They are all over the countryeven, there are a few districts,
even in California, that hasbanned some books. So I don't
(07:02):
know if you've been notifiedthat your books are banned
anywhere, but my I would justventure a guess that if they
have seen them somewhere wherethey're doing this, they're
probably you might be on thelist. How can educators
classroom teachers, how can theyuse your books to promote
inclusivity and culturalawareness, even if they are
(07:26):
somewhere where maybe theremight be some political
pushback?
Well, to fight the pushback, I'mpart of some author groups who
work to suppress book banning,and they challenge all of us to
write our politicians, beinvolved in school board
(07:48):
meetings and events so that wecan be a part of the solution.
I've actually last year here inHouston, they turned school
libraries into detention centersand laid off a lot of
librarians, so I was on thefront lines protesting those
activities, but just makingparents aware of what's going
(08:10):
on, sharing stories. And I knowa lot of them are in fear for
their jobs, you know, so it'sreally difficult for them. I
urge parents to support thelibrarians and educators and
just stay aware of what's goingon, because these are small
groups. Any of the books, thebook I just mentioned sing a
(08:31):
song, it's been on banned list.
There are books. There's onecalled Little leaders, which
just shows historical figureslike Mae Jemison, Oprah Winfrey,
even it's been banned. And it'sany of these books that are
affirming children of color andof different races, they're just
sweeping through and banningthem. I urge teachers to make
(08:51):
parents aware and enlist theirsupport, because it's hard for
them. A lot of them are on thefront lines, and their jobs are
in danger. Yeah, so because it'shard for them, there's even a
school, a title, one school,that I volunteer at in
Galveston. And you know, thelibrarian, she doesn't have the
(09:12):
ability to bring forth some ofthese books, certain books,
without approval for so the mainthing is kind of make parents
aware. A lot of them are noteven aware of what's going on.
I've done events in Katy, Texas,which is kind of like a hotbed
of book banning, and parentswere actually crying tears. We
brought in Jerry craft, whowrote a book called new kid that
(09:33):
just talks about AfricanAmerican children in a private
school, and they were not awareof what's going on. So I think
helping get awareness out sothat people even realize what's
going on. Because many of thebooks that have been banned,
they all they do is shareaffirming stories about people
loving themselves. They're notreally controversial, in my
(09:56):
mind, and it's kind of small.
All political groups coming in,going into communities where
many of them don't even live,and getting these campaigns
going to ban books. Yeah, one ofthose groups is moms for
liberty, and I've done severalepisodes where I address who
they are and what they're doing.
And so, you know, I'm glad thatyou are actively involved in
(10:19):
this, and can can share someinsights on what folks can do.
We have to recognize that this,this, this happens because they
have organized around justremoving books. I mean, if they
can, they have removed booksabout Rosa Parks, about Martin
Luther King. So even even theblack figures that they have
(10:40):
historically embraced, theystill don't want those books in
in the classroom, so parentsneed to be involved. These,
these groups are putting forwardpeople to run for school board
and a lot of times, school boardelections are won by, you know,
a 50, 100 votes. You know,school board elections don't
(11:00):
turn people out by the 10s of1000s, and if we're not paying
attention, these are the peoplethey are putting into school
boards, and they're the onesthat are approving these book
bans. So, so important forparents to be involved there.
Tell us a little bit about theSophie Washington series. So the
Sophie Washington series istween chapter book series.
Sophie is 11 years old. Thereare 13 books in the series, and
(11:24):
each book has Sophie and friendsdealing with different problems
that tweens face, like makingfriends, managing social media
and video game play, standing upto bullies, just learning
different things that tweenstalking about different issues
they experience, and they learnabout entrepreneurship and
(11:45):
different things in each book.
So it's been it's been a funride. I self published the
series, and I've actually soldover 175,000
copies in scholastic bought therights to my book Sophie
Washington, code one in 2021 fora STEM program,
(12:06):
which is kind of funny, becauseI am not like a heavy tech
person, but I kids love videogames. I have two sons and a
daughter, and I would becamejust fascinated with coding
because I thought, well, as muchas you love to play on these
games, maybe you can somethinguseful from it. Wrote a book
(12:26):
about coding. So scholasticapproached me and put it in a
STEM program they have forgirls. That is awesome, and I
had not made that connection tostem. So, you know, I do a
little bit of work with withSTEM, and I'm going to make sure
that I get a copy of that one,and that I bring that forward
when I'm speaking to especiallyto black stem audiences. You
(12:47):
know, there's a whole blackeducators of stem that we want
to make sure and please bug me,I want to make that connection
for you, not just in person, butwe can get that done right away.
That's really important, as wellas the there are some black STEM
schools here in Houston, and Iwant to make sure you know that
you connect with those peoplethere. So Tonya, stay on me, and
(13:08):
we'll make sure that we makethose connections for you. I
love that. And the tween spaceis so I did an episode A while
back with someone about justnavigating that tween space as a
parent. So for children of colorwho are tweens, to have a series
of books that that are focusedand built around people who look
like them, right? So critical,yeah. And I have many readers
(13:32):
who have identified with Sophie.
They dress as her. They've sentme pictures. I have a book
Sophie, Washington hurricane,where she wears a pink cowboy
hat and a Houston strong shirt,and I've had kids dressed like
that. I have a book called thesnitch, and it has a pose with
Sophie putting her finger overher mouth like because she's
saying she has a secret. AndI've had a lot of kids dressed
(13:55):
up as that. So that's been a lotof fun, and it's a relatable
series that will keep childrenengaged in reading. And I know
my kids, my youngest, especiallyhe didn't like to read, and that
was one of my inspirations forthe series, because any of the
books were not relatable to himthat I would share. And so this
is something a lot of parentshave written me letters thanking
(14:18):
me, because these are books thattheir children can relate to and
keep them excited about readingthat is so interesting. You
know, I thought, as you weretalking about that, I'm
thinking, I don't have my kidsare adults. I have a grandson,
but he's a junior in or, yeah,God, he's a junior in high
school this year. But I do havetwo great nieces who are still
(14:40):
in that tween space. So I thinkwhen we finish up today, I'll be
ordering the whole series forthe two of them, twin grand twin
grand nieces. I think that thatthose stories will be just
inspiring and perfect for them.
A lot of times, folks don'trealize the power of
representation.
Okay, and seeing yourself doingpositive things, portrayed in a
(15:04):
positive manner, and dealingwith the issues that that every
child, or all children, manychildren, deal with, it is one
of the four indicators of equitythat I have in my work. Is
seeing yourself, whether it's inthe context of regular like
science or math curriculum orliterature, whatever it is our
(15:26):
children need to see themselves.
So bringing these books forwardis critical, and I you know, if
I can share, and I'd love yourfeedback and what your feelings
are this whole effort to banbooks of diverse characters, not
even historical characters, justdiverse characters. To me, seems
to be a concerted effort to makesure that a black and brown cast
(15:50):
that is politically oppressed,that is economically oppressed,
that is educationally oppressed,is is built and maintained in
this country to the benefita bunch of white right wing
zealots. I'm just gonna say itas plainly as I can, going back
(16:12):
to as as close as they can, tosomething that is akin to
slavery without it actuallybeing enslaving people, but
creating that, that that groupof people that are oppressed.
It's really sad, because whenyou think of Frederick Douglass
as saying, when you learn toread, you'll be forever, be
forever free, right? And it'skind of it's hurting people of
(16:35):
all races, not just people ofcolor, when our children are
ignorant of American history andwe're trying to hide a facet of
American history. And again,talking about books being
relatable, I have there was achild, a little girl who's a
friend of my youngest son andthe teacher, they all had high
(16:56):
reading levels. She provided herrole of thunder. Hear My Cry
when she was very great, which Ilove that book. It's one of my
favorite books. But the littlegirl was crying because she's a
Suburban Girl in Houston, theonly book they just saw black
people on the cover and give herthe story, which has a lot of
trauma It does, yeah, terriblerelating to it, because that's
(17:19):
not her lived experience. And sowhen you look through,
especially when I grew up, thereweren't books that featured
black girls, little blackAmerican girls going through
just daily things. Most of themwere trauma stories, either they
were inner city with all kindsof struggles and trauma, or
slaves or share croppers andthings like that. So it's
(17:41):
important for our children tosee themselves in all
situations, and that history isimportant. We need to keep that
history. We need to know ourhistory, but we also need books
that our children can relate toin the modern times as well.
Yeah, you know, as you saidthat, I thought back to when I
was a child. I did have a coupleof amazing teachers, and I had
(18:04):
my own personal trauma that Ilived through. I saw my father
was killed when I was seven. Iwas there, right? So I had a
couple, you know, one inparticular, and I talk about her
all the time. She's my thirdgrade teacher, Mrs. Gowdy. The
year after all of that traumawas when I had her and she fed
me books that had black and thatwas a white woman. She gave me
(18:24):
books constantly I was wellabove grade level, so these
books where I could see positiveimages of black people, and in
particular, of black men. But asI you were talking, I'm
thinking, what was the firstbook I read about someone black
who was my age, and it wassounder, okay, right, right. So
I can't even remember, it'sabout a dog, isn't it? It's
(18:48):
sounder. Was the dog, but it's ablack sharecropping family. Oh,
right. So again, we get to that,you know, what? Are we either
slaves or sharecroppers? And,well, granted, yes, I am
descended from from enslavedpeople and sharecroppers, you
know, andbut still, that wasn't my lived
experience, but it was the onlything I had about someone who
(19:10):
was my age,but I was a city girl. I
couldn't connect, you know,living as a sharecropper, it
just it didn't relate. So I am,you know, over the moon,
thrilled that your books exist.
I just, you know, way, if Iwanted books about people my age
(19:32):
as a child, they were typicallywhite. I mean, I read every
Nancy, Drew book that was everwritten because that was what
was there. But still, there wereso many things. There are so
many things in that, in thatseries that that children of
color, black children inparticular, will never be able
to relate to because our livedexperience is so different.
(19:54):
Yeah, my husband was sharingwith me, and he loves to read,
but he reads mostly historical.
I.
Fiction and biographies. And hesaid, growing up, he liked
historical books because hedidn't relate to the characters
in most of the fictional booksand things that he was in
school. Yeah, they just weren'tthere for us.
(20:17):
How do you approach? How do yougo about some of the sensitive
topics, especially in that tweenspace. How do you do that in a
way that entertains and engagesthem? But at the same time as
educational Can you share asecret?
I don't know if there's reallysee, I just try to write things
(20:37):
as they are. When I write books,I don't set out to be preachy or
didactic in what I'm doing so,and there's a lot of humor in in
problems. You know, that's howyou know the song tears of clan,
and a lot of things that ourkids do are funny and
(20:59):
entertaining. And during thetime that I was writing the
Sophie Washington series, as Isaid, I'm a three, my kids were
around the ages of thecharacters, so just I kind of
was in their their fictionalbooks, but the situations mimic
some of the things that theyexperienced during those times.
And it was, it was just fun forme to write about these
(21:21):
characters and create littleworlds and situations for them,
and I have them do things therein spelling bee, there's a
holiday book they go to CostaRica. So even though they learn
lessons on being a good friend,one, they have plagiarism, one,
you know, they have, it's kindof like a sitcom type
(21:43):
where they wrap it up in the endof the story, but they have fun
things too. The brother likes toplay pranks on Sophie, and I've
been asked to make a spin offabout her little brother, Cole,
because he loves to tell jokesand do little funny things
throughout the book. So it'skind of a fun time. You know
they're joyous fun stories, eventhough they do teach lessons
(22:05):
about situations.
So I don't have that gift of ofcreating brilliant narrative. I
write expository teacherprofessional development books.
How would when did you know thatyou had this gift. It started
early for me, because I alwaysloved to read, and my mom would
(22:27):
take me to the library once aweek, and I'd have a bag of
books and read all those. SoI've always loved to read, and
in fifth grade, I won a writingcompetition at my school, and my
teachers encouraged me. Andactually, just last week, I went
back to my old school and did anauthor visit, because I do
author visits with children, sothat was so cool to have that
(22:49):
full circle moment going back tothe school that I went to. So I
worked also in journalism. Aftercollege, we didn't have school
visits when I was growing upwhere I met authors that seemed
kind of out of the realm ofpossibility for me, but I just
always have loved story. I readall the time. Now I read up to
(23:10):
60 books a year, fiction, nonfiction. I'm always reading. And
when my kids were little, Iwould tell them bedtime stories
and just make up great storiesfor them all the time, and they
actually with the SophieWashington series. When I
started writing them, I wouldread them part of it for bedtime
stories.
(23:32):
Okay, let's go. Oh, well, hey.
But they would be like, oh, youknow, this is boring, or kids
don't talk like that, anddifferent things, so they would
help me when we were writingthose stories.
So for parents who might belistening to this, if they have
a child who likes to tellstories, we'll put it that way.
(23:55):
Is this something you think thatparents should think about early
and, you know, create, helpcreate those experiences. And
for teachers, when you're you'refinding that you've got a child
who's a little more creative,yeah, I think you can help
encourage that by my mother usedto buy me diaries because she
doesn't really read that much,but she always took me to the
library where I could get books.
So I think providing access tobooks giving them journals and
(24:19):
different things to let themwrite that helped keep me going
with my creativity and with myown kids. There are different
activities here in Houston.
There's something called writersin the schools, and in the
summer, I my kids, actually,none of the three of them like
writing that much, but I hadthem involved in things like
(24:42):
that when they were younger.
Okay, any others that you cansuggest for parents who might be
listening? I also always hadthem participate in the library
reading, you know, the summerreading programs in bookstores
and libraries where they couldread and get prizes because.
Reading is the key to goodwriting as well, because for me,
(25:04):
it came very instinctive, eventhough I think I am more gifted
in writing and I've just alwaysloved it, but because I read so
much, it's very easy for me tojust sense how stories should
be. Even before I startedwriting for children, I kind of
had a sense of how things shouldbe, and I love poetry and just
(25:25):
playing with because when you'rewriting, even picture books,
even though there's only 32pages and from 500 to 1000
words, it's kind of like puttinga puzzle together when you're
trying to come up with theperfect way to tell the story,
because you have to think it'sgoing to be read aloud. There's
images with the picture book,you know, with your words. So
(25:47):
there's a lot that goes intowriting a good picture book for
children. Yeah, I bet I lovedoing read aloud for little
kids. It's like when I do whenI've done school visits and in
my consulting work, usually it'saround English language arts and
reading. So my favorite thing isto get in there and be able to
do circle time and read. And asa sixth grade teacher, even I
(26:09):
did read aloud to my sixthgraders, they got on the carpet
and, you know, did the wholecriss cross applesauce. You
know, for my kids, a lot of itwas because they were not
reading at grade level, and sogetting literature into them
meant that a lot of it had to beread aloud until, you know, till
they got to a point where theycould really engage in grade
level, appropriate Lexile levelreading. But just having books
(26:34):
in the classroom for them, evenif they were, you know, four
years, four or five years belowgrade level, they were starting
to pick up books that love ofliterature can still be
developed.
Curious if you know whether ornot your books are used in the
Freedom Schools, the summerschools. Actually, this summer,
I went to a freedom school herein Houston, and they had, like,
(26:57):
a 60 year anniversary, and I dida reading there to Freedom
School with the children, sothey're going to incorporate
them in to that that I wasintroduced to that this summer.
Yeah, for those of you notfamiliar with freedom schools, I
know I did an episode on it awhile back, but I ran into
someone just in the last coupleof weeks that is part of the
(27:18):
freedom schools here in Houston,and we had this conversation so
it just just struck me that theyshould be using your books. And
so if you're involved with afreedom school somewhere other
than Houston, make sure you letthem know about Tanya Duncan
Ellis and give them a link toher website so they can check
out those books. They'reperfect, I think, for inspiring
(27:38):
our children in the summer.
Um, I have one last question foryou, and it's one that I ask
every guest. Dr Angela Davisonce said, I am changing the
things I cannot accept. So whatis the something that you cannot
accept? And how can listenershelp support change in that
area? Something that's troublingfor me is that many of the books
(28:03):
that I would share with my kidsthat featured African American
characters weren't written byAfrican American writers, and so
that was disturbing to me when Ilooked at the statistics, and
things have been moving in adifferent direction in recent
years, the publishing industryhas become more aware of this,
but I urge parents, when they'relooking at books, to check out
(28:26):
who the author is, becausethere's so many. Even with my
own youngest son, who Imentioned, doesn't like to read,
didn't like to read a lot as achild, I was showing him one
that had a little black boy onthe cover, and I said, Oh, you
love this. You'll he's playingbasketball. You not to be
stereotypical, but he did.
And then when I saw who theauthor was, I'm like, This is
why he doesn't relate to it.
Because things in the book Iread it, they were not
(28:49):
relatable, and they put a personof color on the cover. I don't
know if the author had a hand inthat or not. They may not, but
I've been seeing, you know, Isee that a lot is kind of
upsetting to me. So I encourageauthors, black authors, to try
to get involved in thetraditional publishing space.
Learn, because we have many whodo self publishing, but learn
(29:12):
that their books and their workcan be included as well. Yes,
absolutely, absolutely. It issomething that I deal with in
the work that I do withpublishers in you know, the
literature that they acquire isdon't just tell stories of
children of color. I don't careif they're black, they're
Latina, indigenous. They need tobe written by people of that
(29:34):
culture, so that you're reallygetting an understanding of the
full character and their livedexperience. So thank you for
that, and to continue on withthat, it has changed in recent
years, but I used to followstatistics in around 2020, 2021,
less than half of the bookschildren's books that featured
(29:57):
black.
Characters were written by blackauthors. And this was not the
same. In other groups, they hadup to 90% 95 but for African
Americans, it was less than halfof those books that starred in
African American character werewritten by an a black author.
Yeah. I remember reading thatsame data, yeah. So it is
(30:21):
something that we need to doabout, do something about. So if
there is, let's say there's ablack author who's hearing this
podcast, can they contact youfor partnership, for guidance,
forWell, I do do consulting with
authors. I do paid consulting,because I also do mentorships
through different programs, likeWe Need Diverse Books and other
(30:42):
organizations, so I offermentorships through those I
don't have time to answer allthe quick because I lot of
questions for people. But I alsorecommend that if they're truly
interested in writing forchildren, they join groups like
the Society of Children's BookWriters and Illustrators, which
(31:03):
teaches you the craft of writingfor children. And on my
Instagram feed, at Tanya Ellisbooks, I have all kinds of free
tips on writing for children andsteps to take if you're
interested in entering thetraditionally published space or
even self publishing. So I do,and I do provide paid
(31:27):
mentorships and consultation aswell. Okay, good. Yes, you have
value. Your intellect and yourknowledge has value. So make
sure that you that, folks, ifyou're going to talk to her,
recognize and respect the valuethat she brings. I encourage
everyone within the sound of myvoice to explore Tanya Duncan
(31:49):
Ellis's incredible work andconsider how her books can
enrich your understanding ofcultural awareness and
inclusivity in education, instorytelling. Her website is
Tonya Duncan ellis.comcheck out those latest releases.
Check out the Sophie series, andremember that every story has
the power to inspire change. Andthen join me again next episode
(32:13):
as we continue to advocate foreducational equity, let's make a
difference together. Don'tforget to subscribe and share,
and until next time, remember,don't worry about the things you
cannot change. Change the thingsyou can no longer accept. And
that's a wrap for today'sepisode of the 3e podcast. Now
here's how you can make a realdifference. First, smash that
(32:34):
subscribe button. It's free.
It's easy, just do it. Second,share the show with anyone you
know who cares about education,and third, consider becoming a
supporter of the show together,we're not just talking about
change, we're making it happen.
Make a donation today to be partof that mission and change, and
I'll catch you next time you.
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