January 20, 2025 • 49 mins
Can social media actually transform the way school principals connect with their communities? Join us as we uncover the remarkable journey of Principal Mo, a trailblazer in educational leadership, who is redefining what it means to be a school principal in the digital age. With prestigious accolades like the 2020 Heart of Schools Award and the Maryland Association of Elementary Schools Connected School Leader Award under her belt, Principal Mo shares her incredible path from teacher to award-winning leader, and how she uses platforms like TikTok to engage and inspire. Her innovative approach offers a fresh perspective on integrating technology and social media to build vibrant and inclusive school communities.
We explore the exciting intersection of technology and education through Principal Mo's visionary use of AI to enhance decision-making and reduce administrative burdens. Imagine a world where school leaders focus more on people than paperwork! Principal Mo reveals how AI tools like ChatGPT and Canva's AI features can transform everyday educational tasks, freeing up time for creativity and personal interaction. We also discuss how her unique hobbies, including DJing and sneaker collecting, contribute to her dynamic leadership style, bringing a sense of balance and energy to her role.
Principal Mo’s story is one of unconventional thinking and bold leadership. We delve into her philosophy of challenging traditional educational practices and embracing risk to foster a more dynamic learning environment. By leveraging the strengths of her staff and taking cues from students, she creates a culture of innovation and inclusion. Principal Mo's journey is not just about leading schools; it's about revolutionizing them. Tune in to discover how you, too, can break away from conventional methods and join a movement of educational leaders dedicated to making a real difference.
Like Deion Sanders, Principal Mo "Ain't Hard to Find"! Follow her on Tik Tok, Instagram, X, Threads, Linked In, and Blue Sky. Simply Search, @principal_mo or Principal_Mo. Principal Mo's New Website!
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Episode Transcript
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Principal JL (00:00):
Hey there, educational leaders, I am so
excited to bring you guys thisepisode, this episode.
I got to sit down with anaward-winning educator, a
nationally certified principalmentor and a bona fide
trailblazer in the world ofeducational leadership.
She has over 15 years ofexperience.
She's done it from you, youknow teaching, special education
(00:24):
, school administration.
She's done it at all thesedifferent levels and she's had a
lot of innovation and heart.
That's second to none.
Yes, I'm talking about thefamous Principal Mo today on our
podcast.
So excited, she's also rackedup some serious hardware.
(00:47):
She was named the 2020 Heart ofSchools Award Honoree and
earning the Maryland Associationof Elementary Schools Connected
School Leader Award for hercutting-edge leadership.
Let's not forget, principal Mois the mastermind behind
transformative initiatives likeaccelerated learning, gifted and
talented programming, artsintegration and STEM education.
(01:14):
You know, if it's making wavesin education, you bet Principal
Mo is at the forefront of it all.
But this is where things getreally exciting.
Throughout our episode, wetalked about a lot of her
educational leadership kind ofhow she sees educational
leadership, but she also talksabout bringing in artificial
intelligence into schoolleadership, how she can use AI
(01:36):
to empower educators, to harnesscutting edge tech to streamline
operations and to make smarterdecisions.
So she gives a lot of greatinsights about that today in
this episode.
And let's not forget PrincipalMo is an outstanding leader and
she's committed to equality andinclusion.
She believes that all studentscan learn and achieve and she
(01:58):
spends her career buildingsupportive, inspiring school
communities that reflect that.
Did I mention that she's aTikTok sensation?
Yeah, that's right.
She connects with educators andparents and students in a whole
new level, being creative withhumor.
Insights on the social mediaworld that's right.
(02:19):
We have the one and onlyPrincipal Mo here on the
Educational Leadership Podcast,so sit back.
I hope you guys really enjoythe conversation as much as I
did.
All right, everybody, this isPrincipal JL Today.
(02:44):
I'm really excited to havePrincipal Mo in the building
today.
We're actually on a restreamhere that we're recording, and
so welcome Principal Mo to thepodcast.
Thank you for having me.
All right, principal Mo, we'regoing to get things rocking here
.
Why education?
(03:04):
Why step into this wonderful,beautiful, messy world of
education and what?
Principal Mo (03:12):
inspires you to become a teacher.
Well, it wasn't so messy when Ijoined and you know, in
yesteryear it wasn't such a badplace to be.
But when I got my start ineducation I've actually been
working with children as long asI've been working so it was a
natural progression for me to gofrom a camp counselor to
working at church and Sundayschools and things of that
(03:36):
nature, to progress naturally inthe teaching.
I remember going to my collegeorientation and trying to figure
out well actually open houseand trying to figure out what
well actually open house andtrying to figure out what my
major would be.
Initially I wanted to possiblygo into psychology, but then I
saw how long I was going to haveto go to school and I knew I
still wanted to work withchildren.
So I chose to pursue a teachingdegree at Temple University and
(04:02):
I came out duly certified witha bachelor's in special
education and elementaryeducation.
Principal JL (04:11):
Awesome, awesome.
So you started as a teacher.
How long were you a teacher?
Principal Mo (04:17):
I was a teacher for four years in Philadelphia
and then I moved to Maryland andI was a teacher for two years
there.
Principal JL (04:26):
Awesome, your next step was going from teacher to
becoming an assistant principal.
What kind of led up to that?
What kind of go?
Hmm, I want to go from theclassroom into what people like
to call the dark side ofadministration and get into
becoming an assistant principal.
What kind of led into that foryou?
Principal Mo (04:46):
I think it was like an unintended step, because
what initially occurred wasthat I pursued my master's
degree when I was teaching inPhiladelphia and initially I was
only getting the master'sdegree for a pay bump right, you
know to go on the scale a bit.
And when I pursued my master'sdegree for a pay bump right you
know to go on the scale a bit.
And when I pursued my master'sdegree, initially I was only
(05:09):
going for curriculum andinstruction and special
education supervisor, because atthe time I was a special
education teacher.
The advisor advised me topursue educational leadership
because it was only, I think,like six more credits to get the
degree and to get an additionalendorsement in administration,
although I had no desire to movein that direction.
(05:31):
When I moved to Maryland, Iactually got a pink slip in the
state of Pennsylvania and fromPhiladelphia because they were
downsizing the teaching forcebecause it was a tumultuous time
in terms of having moreeducators than needed to land.
(05:51):
There are a lot of colleges,especially in the Philadelphia
area, so it was anoversaturation of teachers, so
that resulted in layoffs.
So I ended up in Maryland myspecial education department
chair.
She actually encouraged me tohave the district looking to my
endorsements and see if I waseligible to actually become an
(06:12):
administrator, because she feltthat I would be good for the
position.
She felt that, given myknowledge with special education
and elementary education, thatI would be a good administrator.
Initially I told her I thoughtthat that wasn't a good idea and
that I didn't think that that'swhat I really wanted to do.
I really always wanted to be ateacher.
I always wanted to be in theclassroom.
(06:32):
That was where my heart was.
That little nudge led me tobeing a special ed department
chair for about a good threemonths and then being thrown
into an assistant principalposition.
It's been a unique journey, butit's the one that I would be on
and it was definitely one thathas been rewarding.
Principal JL (06:54):
Awesome, Awesome.
So it's kind of one of thosethings you weren't looking for,
but it found.
You is kind of how that workedout.
How long were you an assistantprincipal from that time?
Oh yeah, were you an assistantprincipal from that time?
Principal Mo (07:06):
Oh yeah, I was an assistant principal for four
years at a middle high school,so I went from elementary and
middle to middle, then to middlehigh school, which was fun.
Principal JL (07:19):
It was an interesting experience.
So you got to see everythingK-12, basically, from teaching
the assistant principal.
So you got a really good graspof the different levels and kind
of what you see and kind of howyou lead in those different
capacities.
So that's really interesting.
So you're an assistantprincipal.
You've done it for about fouryears.
(07:40):
What kind of go.
I want to take that next stepto becoming a building lead.
Principal Mo (07:51):
You know what was the story behind taking that
next step in your educationaljourney.
Well, jl, one thing that youwill notice is an ongoing trend
and theme in my story and myjourney to the principalship is
that I didn't want to be aprincipal either.
So once again, it was anothernudge.
I was an assistant principal.
I was in my second year as anAP my original assistant
(08:12):
superintendent.
He approached me.
He said I think, you know,there's going to be some
principal ships coming up and Ithink you're really ready for it
.
At the time I was pregnant withtwins oh boy and yeah.
And so I was like no, I don'tthink this is a great idea.
I'm one that's all aboutbalance.
And so I was like you know, I'mdue in June and you want me to
(08:34):
start a new principal shit.
I'm going to be coming freshoff maternity leave and going
into a personal position.
I just don't think that that'sa wise move for myself and my
family, you know.
So I said you know I'llcontinue to learn, I'll continue
to grow and then, if theopportunity presents itself,
then you know I'll pursue it.
But I did go through theprincipal pool, like you know
(08:56):
the performance at Tassin Centerand all of that and I passed.
But then I got into a programcalled Promising Principals here
in Maryland.
It was a program, a principalpreparation program for
assistant principals andexpiring school leaders.
My mentor at the time and mycoach during the program, she
(09:19):
said hey, I know a little schoolthat I think you might be
interested in leading.
Do you want?
Are you interested?
And so, leading, do you want,are you interested?
And so I said you know, itdoesn't hurt to explore and take
a look.
It was in a different districtthan the one I was currently in.
So you know, I visited theschool.
I talked to some of the peoplebecause I wanted to just really
see what it's like.
Once I did that, I took onestep in the building that I am
(09:45):
in today and I said this feelslike home and it feels like
where I should be.
Then I started to see how thingscould look in the building, how
things could improve, how wecould expand, and once I started
having that vision for abuilding that I didn't even
leave yet, I knew I needed to bethere and that's how I ended up
(10:06):
as a principal.
I've been a principal at myschool now for eight years and
this school is pre-K througheight, so I have been a building
leader in pre-K through 12.
So that type of insight that'sreally helpful in terms of
knowing what's next for students.
So knowing what's next for mymiddle schoolers who are going
(10:26):
to high school and even beyond,in making sure they have, you
know, the necessary preparationand understanding of what's
required for them to go intohigh school, and then also
talking to them about whatcollege could potentially look
like, I think sometimes peopledon't really realize that in,
you know, in middle school isthe real preparation for life,
(10:47):
although it's a really squirrelytime for kids.
But you know when you go to highschool and what you do in high
school dictates what you doafter high school.
So you know those decisionskind of have to be made early
and I don't think a lot ofpeople realize that.
And I always try to, like youknow, drill it into my parents
and my families and my studentsthat you know this is an
important time in your life andyou really need to learn and
(11:09):
take advantage of that.
Principal JL (11:11):
Yeah, you bet I remember I was a 7-12 principal
one time and I really focused onthat middle age, that 7th, 8th
grade age, because I knew if Igot where I needed them to go, I
knew they would be successfulin high school.
If I got where I needed them togo, I knew they would be
successful in the high school.
You know, that's really awesomethat you are taking the time to
make sure that those kids areready to take those next steps.
So, because when you get in thehigh school, everything starts
(11:32):
to count even more.
So you got to get them ready,get them rocking for that.
You know, going from teacher,going from assistant principal,
Now you're a building leader.
You've been now, you've beendoing it for eight years.
But within that time you wentfrom leading a building, which
you still do, to becoming aTikTok sensation, a Prince
(11:55):
fluencer.
What kind of like led you tothat?
Like, what, what?
What was the encouragement tobe like?
You know what I'm going to hitrecord, I'm going to do these
videos and you know what.
What led you up to that?
Principal Mo (12:11):
Honestly, what led up to that was when I started
my TikTok account.
I started my TikTok accountwith the intention of reaching
my students.
I knew that they were on TikTok, I knew it was a new
application, that they were onTikTok.
I knew it was a new applicationand I'm the type of person I'll
try.
I will try a new.
(12:33):
I will try a new you know appor a new social media site, just
to see what it's like and tosee if I like it.
So I, you know, I just hoppedon the bandwagon and initially I
made public serviceannouncements or PSAs, for my
students about, like, doingtheir work, logging on to
virtual learning, you know, justall these things and infusing
my level of humor into it.
I eventually grew this likehuge following that I didn't
(12:56):
even expect to get, but itturned out that I had a
community of people who were inthe same boat as me.
I was very vulnerable about whatit was like being a building
leader during the pandemic andthe significant changes that we
experienced, how it impactededucation.
You know how I dealt with humorand you know and how you know,
(13:20):
even like you know, the mentalhealth side of things.
And then, after amassingsomewhat of a following and just
making you know content that Ithought that people would want
to see.
Then there will be, like brandsand different people reaching
out to me and then I was likewait a minute.
I said I thought only teacherscould be, like you know,
influencers.
And so now I'm like a printinfluencer.
(13:41):
You know I try to influence.
You know, as a leader, you'realways trying to influence
people.
But now it's a little moreintentional in terms of, like
you know, getting people tolearn about different things,
whether it's, you know, learningabout hiring.
Like you know, I did a seriesabout how you need to Interview,
(14:02):
tips on how to get into theassistant principal position.
You know any aspiring leaders.
So doing those videos and justhelping other people in my
TikTok community and in mysocial media community has been
truly a rewarding experience,knowing that I'm helping someone
else.
So I have to know what has beenthe funniest or the most
(14:24):
surprising reaction you got fromstudents, other teachers,
parents when you kind of gotinto this TikTok adventure uh,
so for students, it was one dayI'm in the cafeteria as I do,
I'm, you know, in the cafeteriajust doing one studio, and then
(14:45):
one kid yells out principalworth, you're tiktok famous.
You know that.
Right, and I was like what?
Because one thing that Isometimes don't pay attention to
is that, even though I'm makingthese videos and like people
viewing them, people have torealize people are viewing them,
so people are seeing what I'mdoing.
And then even some of myparents, my parents, were
(15:07):
telling other parents about myTikTok account and they follow
me.
If I would go live, sometimesthe parents would ask me
questions.
It was just a really unique andauthentic way to really connect
with my community, my schoolcommunity, my parents.
They love my account apparently.
So you know, I get a lot ofpositive feedback.
(15:28):
They like it when I incorporatethe students.
I just started a social, asolid social media team where we
make regular content for theschool and they, they really
embrace it.
So it's really nice to be inthat type of community where
it's embraced, because I knowthat's not the case everywhere.
So, but that's been, it's beena really unique experience and
(15:50):
it's a lane that a lot of peoplearen't in and it's also
rewarding to be kind of at theforefront of something and to be
able to help other people andkind of lift as I climb.
Principal JL (16:03):
So what would you tell somebody like maybe a
principal that's in our position, you know the utilization of
social media Because you know wehear from, like our district
office, like well, you got to becareful with that.
Yeah, you know you don't wantto go too far, you know what I
(16:24):
mean.
So what kind of advice wouldyou give somebody that's a
principal in our position that'sthinking about you know what I
think?
Maybe getting into social mediaand utilizing that to leverage
to connect with my families,with my students?
What advice would you give them?
Principal Mo (16:37):
So the first thing is that you have to figure out
what your personal brand isgoing to be.
My personal brand is I say I'mnicheless most of the time, but
there are certain rules that Ifollow.
The first thing is that I don'tpost anything that's negative.
There is no profanity and evenin the songs that I use there's
(16:58):
no profanity.
I don't use profanity.
Make certain that everythingthat I do online is palatable
for the youngest child in mybuilding.
That makes sense, oh yeah.
The second rule that I have isthat if I do make a video, I
don't want to press postimmediately and it gives me any
(17:19):
type of pause for concern.
I don't post it.
So just making sure that, likeyou know, if every time you make
a video, you always think aboutyour audience, how is your
audience going to receive this?
How are they going to interactwith it?
How are they going to reactwith it?
And even from the youngestchild in your building to you
know your parents and thingslike that, because once again,
(17:40):
they see social media.
You know that content does getpushed out to them and somebody
will see it.
You just have to be mindful ofwhat it is that you're posting.
Oh no, it's also a good thingto have a little fun, but you
always just want to make surethat you're adhering to your
district guidelines and thingslike that.
But that's how I've built mypersonal brand.
(18:01):
The internet is that you knowmost of my content.
Even if it's humorous, it's notoffensive, because a lot of
times jokes can be offensive tospecific groups of people.
You know no discriminatoryjokes, you know, just just those
things are just making surethat things are done in good
taste is really important.
Also, being careful about, likeyou know, having students in
your you know, in your contentand in your videos.
(18:23):
You know, making sure that youhave parental consent.
Like you know, I have a socialmedia team and like they're in
the videos.
But the parents know they'rewell informed, they consent to
it.
The school consent forms arenot your consent forms.
Like, you need to make surethat you're talking to your
families about that.
Those are all very importantthings, just making sure your
T's are crossed and your I's aredotted in that specific realm.
(18:46):
But, you know, also showcasingthat you're having fun, your
day-to-day life as a principal,as a leader, your thoughts and
ideas, just making sure thatthey align with, once again,
your district guidelines andthings like that, making sure
that they align with, once again, your district guidelines and
things like that.
So, I think, just making surethat your personal brand, if you
are going to go into this realmwhere you are posting as a
(19:07):
principal, there's still a levelof, there's still that morality
clause.
Whether it's spoken or unspoken, that's there and you need to
abide by it, and I think thatthat's really important.
And if you're showcasingyourself in your personal life,
just making sure that that'scopacetic and okay and, once
again, palatable for your wideaudience that you either have or
(19:30):
will amass after you know,creating enough content.
Principal JL (19:34):
Really good advice .
I really appreciate yourinsight on that, someone that
has actually kind of beenthrough the ropes and done all
those things.
You know, sometimes with socialmedia there's some negative
aspects and sometimes you mayhave some negative comments.
Kind of tell us about how youhandle when you have those
negative things.
(19:54):
I know you have a lot ofpositive things, but there are
those negative things that dohappen on social media.
How do you, how do you handlethose those type of situations?
Principal Mo (20:04):
One thing that I have done is, you know,
sometimes you just have toignore those comments.
A lot of times I just respondThanks for the engagement
Because at the end of the day,whether you receive a positive
comment or a negative one, itcounts for engagement on your
posts.
Yeah, so I just say thanks forthe engagement because either
way, you supported me.
That's one of my go-toresponses.
(20:27):
If it's something that'sdisrespectful in nature, I will
address it, because I think thatwhen people talk to each other
on the internet, there's no waythat you would say that to
someone's face, and I think thatit's really important to let
somebody know that you haveboundaries about how people
speak to you and how peopleinteract with you.
So I'll kind of let them knowthat I didn't like what they
(20:49):
said.
And you know, at the end of theday, you don't have to interact
with my content.
You don't have to say anythingto me, you know.
Like you know, just feel freeto block me if that is, you know
, if I'm bothering you that much.
So you know, I've let peopleknow that I don't think there's
anything wrong with establishingboundaries and then sticking to
those boundaries and enforcingthem.
I think it's a fine line whenyou start to jab back, and
(21:12):
that's not what you should do.
You should just let people knowthat these are your boundaries.
Like you know, I tell peopleall the time I'm all for
discourse, but not disrespect,you bet.
And so we can have differingopinions.
We can engage in discoursewithout being disrespectful to
one another.
You know, and I always say I'mhappy to talk with you, I'm
happy to you know, converse, butyou know, if it gets to a point
(21:35):
where it's disrespectful, thenwe have to discontinue the
conversation.
Principal JL (21:37):
But you know, if it gets to a point where it's
disrespectful, then we have todiscontinue the conversation.
All right, well, we're going togo ahead and pivot a little bit
.
Being a principal, being onTikTok is fun and everything.
But let's talk about managingthe stress of the job.
You have a hard day.
You're triage, we triage allthe time.
Right, we have the copiersbreaking down.
We have, you know, if you havean assistant principal, we have
(21:59):
an assistant principal going.
Hey, we have this situation.
We need to kind of cometogether on this.
You have a teacher reaching out.
You have all these thingscoming at you.
At the end of the day, what doyou do to kind of manage the
stress of the job?
You know what are some.
Do you have, like, some funthings?
You like to do some ways tokind of decompress and kind of
(22:20):
uh, you know, get yourself back.
You know to yourself.
So you're, you know, notletting the stress go home with
you.
How do you manage those things?
Principal Mo (22:30):
uh well, there's some things that I do, but like
in terms of just like managingthe stress from day to day, if I
reflect, like on my car ridehome and stuff like that,
sometimes, if it's a bad daylike there's like my car ride is
pretty quiet, thinking aboutwhat happened in me, thinking
about what happened Iacknowledge what happened, but I
(22:52):
try not to like wallow in it.
Also, what I ask myself is whatdo I need to do to make sure
that I never have this type ofday again?
Like you know what waspreventable, what was in my
locus of control, what was Iable to do to?
What am I able to do to moveforward and not have this type
of day again?
Like, do I need to re-examinesystems?
(23:13):
Do I need to re-examine, youknow, responses to certain
situations?
That's one of the things that Ido do, a few outlets that I
have.
I do know how to DJ.
I learned how to DJ in thepandemic, so that is a creative
outlet for me.
I like to do a lot of creativethings.
Principal JL (23:31):
So you have like a turntable yes, like a turntable
, and everything.
Principal Mo (23:36):
Yes, I have all my equipment.
I used to DJ on TikTok everynow and again too.
Oh, wow, um, yeah, and like theparents as soon as um, yeah, so
I like.
So that's one thing that Ireally enjoy.
It's a good outlet for mebecause I really do love and
enjoy music.
So that's one thing that I do.
Um, another thing I do I Ithink most educators do this
(23:58):
they talk to their spouses andthen, like you know, god bless
my husband, god bless the spouseof educators, because I know
they get an earful almost everyday about different things that
happen in our daily lives.
(24:29):
And so and he's learned not toalways offer up a solution, like
sometimes he knows that I'vealready got the solution I just
that it's really easy to allowthe negative things in your
daily work to kind of cloud yourbrain and to consume most of
your thoughts, when you shouldreally be thinking about, like,
the small positives and thesmall ones that you had, you
(24:52):
know, and just always trying topush through with that
positivity.
Because, at the end of the day,if you allow those negative
thoughts and you allow thatnegativity to really cloud your
mind and you know your thoughts,they feed off your energy.
You know you set the tone asthe school leader in your
building.
It's the type of energy that'sin your building and the type of
energy that people receive.
(25:14):
So it's really important toalways try to really rise above
and combat that negativity,because at the end of the day,
you don't want to become thesource of toxicity.
Principal JL (25:24):
Yeah, awesome.
That's a great insight there onhow to manage some stress and
kind of get yourself not tothink of you know we're gonna
have negative things, but tokind of get yourself to where
you know what this happened.
We're gonna move on.
We're make a negative into apositive.
Learn from it, move, learn andgrow, um, as you go through this
.
So that's some great insightthere.
(25:46):
And so, principal though, whatdo you like to do, fuck?
Principal Mo (25:52):
Oh well, I think I told you one.
Yeah, yeah, djing.
I am a collector of manydifferent things, thanks to
being neurodivergent.
I collect sneakers and I have ahuge collection of sneakers
that I have collected over theyears and now it's getting to
the point where it's like, okay,I need to stop, because what's
(26:14):
happening is the shoes that Ihave now they're being
re-released, so that's how Iknow like I need to like and
getting on getting shoes.
I've been collecting shoes fora good bit um, for over, I want
to say like around 15 years.
I've been collecting shoes.
That's been a long-term hobbyof mine.
I recently got into perfumesand fragrances.
(26:36):
Uh, I, like you know, spendingtime with my friends and we talk
about like all kinds of things.
One of my hobbies is actuallysocial media.
I really do enjoy it.
I enjoy talking to people, Ienjoy building community in
different capacities and I justenjoy.
I just enjoy differentcommunities.
Like I have a lot of differentcommunities, especially around
(26:56):
the hobbies that I engage in.
I enjoy event planning, oddlyenough.
So, like the logistical piecesof my job lend me really well
for an event planner yeah, youbet yeah and hosting like
different events about differentthings.
So those are the things thatI'm like into, and I do some
crafting here and there too, youknow, and I like to watch
(27:20):
movies and TV shows.
I'm a I'm a really big actionperson, like action films and
suspense.
Principal JL (27:29):
What's your favorite?
What's your favorite actionmovie?
Principal Mo (27:34):
Right now I would say the Equalizer series or even
the Taken series.
Those are really really good,like a one-man show.
Take it what, take it later,you bet.
Principal JL (27:48):
I really enjoy those.
I will find you.
Yes, we'll see you, those aregood ones.
Those are good ones for sure.
Let's kind of turn the page tothe future of leadership, the
future of educational leadership.
Where do you find technology,especially with the AI, really
(28:10):
kind of exploding now?
Where do you see that foreducational leaders and how do
you think that's going to impactwhat we do?
Principal Mo (28:20):
I hope it alleviates what the kind of the
busy work that we do is leaders,because that's what I've been
using it for mostly.
You know, composing letters,helping provide teachers with
feedback or developing coachingquestions, being a thought
partner around a problem,analyzing data Like these are
all great ways to use AI to kindof save time.
(28:43):
So then, that way and I alwayssay, you know, focus on the
people and not the paperwork,because at the end of the day,
you know, our main priorityshould be the people in our
building.
But that's what, that's what Ihope it does.
I know, like you know, I thinkit was like in the UK there was
like a like an AI quoteprinciple unquote which I know
that scared a lot of people, butI thought it was pretty cool
(29:05):
and I thought that was like youknow, maybe we could have this
type of technology that couldactually help us.
But I think people don'tunderstand about AI is that AI
is artificial.
Intelligence needs a human tofunction.
It needs somebody to ask itwhat to do and to prompt it and
to provide queries.
It can't function, essentially,without a prompt.
(29:25):
Whenever you ask it, it'll do,but it won't do anything without
you.
But I think that the people whoembrace it now will be far
better off than those who arescared of it.
Now, what I liken it to?
And I think you and I have bothlived through this era in the
initial new information age,when we transitioned from having
(29:46):
commercial like, having like todo research in books and
libraries, and then internet,yeah, I remember, yeah, so you
know, librarians were freakingout because, as jesus and
altavista was around, and so Ithink that's what's happening
with type, like technology itwas, it was this big boom and it
was a huge change in a shift,whereas now, like you know, the
(30:09):
internet has not replaced alibrarian and that's what
librarians thought was going tohappen to them and their jobs is
that it was going to replacethem.
It's like no, actually thelibrarian teaches people how to
use the internet, yeah, and, andthey teach you how to reset
research using the internet, andyou know they teach all these
other classes using the internet.
I think that if we use it as a,you know, if we see it as using
(30:30):
a tool and not something that'sgoing to eliminate positions or
eliminate jobs, I know that'slike the biggest thing that they
see.
There is no way like artificialintelligence is intelligent as
it could be, couldn't even dothis job.
Principal JL (30:43):
Yeah, no, they're not being replaced, they're not
being replaced at all.
Principal Mo (30:50):
I think that that's what that's what a future
really is.
It's like if you could justhave like an AI assistant just
even just to go through youremails and like automatically
reply, like you know, to acceptcertain calendar invites, to see
if somebody can reschedule, tojust schedule out some things
that you know you need to happen.
You know, like those are veryminor things that we spend a lot
(31:11):
of time on you need to happen.
You know, like those are veryminor things that we spend a lot
of time on, we're prioritizingwhich emails to read first.
You know, like that, just thosethings you know based on the
immediate need, or you knowthings that are due sooner than
others.
I think that AI could be areally great tool for that.
It is a great tool.
I think that it, like I said,the sooner that people embrace
(31:32):
it, the better off the thingwill be.
Principal JL (31:35):
Awesome, Awesome.
What's your?
Do you have some favorite AIplatforms that you like to use
the most?
Principal Mo (31:42):
So, yes, I do so, I actually use.
I've been using ChatGPT sinceit was in beta testing.
That's been since 20, what 2022?
Yeah, so I've been using it fora good bit and had been working
with it, and then, when ittransitioned to paid, I paid for
it.
So I was like this is a reallyhelpful tool.
I've used the AI features, andthe AI features in Canva have
(32:05):
been really helpful.
Some other cool tools that areout there are Notebook LM, and I
think that's really great forprincipals.
That platform helps you consumelarge amounts of information in
a palatable way.
Like some ways is that youcould just ask it a question and
(32:26):
it'll find the text that'llanswer your question.
Find the text that'll answeryour question.
So say, for example, like youknow, I don't know if your
teachers are unionized, but wehave a contract.
It's hundreds and hundreds ofpages and then before you had to
do control F planning time, andthen find all the different
excerpts about planning time.
Whereas with notebook LN, I cango in how much planning time is
(32:48):
required for this type ofteacher and it'll extract all
the information, and it took asecond, whereas before it took
about 10 to 15 minutes.
So it's cutting your time downsignificantly.
It can also take lengthydocuments and turn it into a
podcast and it'll have like twopeople like you and I telling us
about, like, the content of thedocument, which is also really
(33:10):
cool.
So if, like you have a longcommute, you could listen to
that Like instead of, like youknow, taking the extra time to
read it.
That's another one.
I could talk about AI all day.
You can be here for two hours,yeah, and every day I learn
about a different tool and howto use it.
But, like chat, chat GPT is abig one.
(33:32):
Notebook LM has been reallyhelpful in just like helping my
daily work.
Something that I like to do forfun is I like to use Dolly, and
that is a I using a Africa togenerate pictures and words, and
Sora S O R A, which is aapplication where you could
generate videos from words okayoh, wow, two, two really cool
(33:56):
apps.
Yeah.
So, and what I like to do is Ilike I call it ai stacking.
Sometimes I will do a promptand chat gpt and then take that
answer from that prompt and likeput it in, maybe tesora, to
like kind of beef up myvocabulary and imagery around
something that I want to see.
So then that way the video isbetter depicted in the way that
I envision it.
(34:16):
So it's like there's a lot offun things that you could do,
like even in Sora you can makevideos, like you can make clips,
for example, that you can evenuse like on your school social
media.
It's, the possibilities areabsolutely endless in terms of
using ai to help alleviate themore time-consuming pieces of
(34:39):
your job, and not just with theprincipal shit in school
leadership, but also with, Imean, teachers.
They're the ones that reallygot it good first, because they
were able to get all of thesetools specifically geared
towards them.
You know, I'm a little jealousbecause magic school ai is
another good one.
No, especially fordifferentiating materials.
(35:02):
Oh, my god, I'm so jealous.
As a special educator, I wentyeah, this was available when I
was, you know, when I wasteaching special education, like
leveling texts anddifferentiating different pieces
of content.
It's just the possibilitieshave really been writing IEP
goals and progress monitoringfor those goals.
I can't even tell you how manytimes like I was like at home
(35:24):
sitting in the evening watchinglike Scandal on a Thursday and
like writing IEPs and IEP goals.
Yeah, so you know there are alot of great tools out there for
educators to use, to kind ofjust, you know, help them get
around the like, theadministrative pieces of our job
so that we can reach kids andour stakeholders.
Principal JL (35:45):
But I think you're hitting on something there.
This is a tool.
This is something that weshould embrace and use so we can
get those remedial things,those nuanced things that we
have to do, but so we couldspend more time with our staff
leading our building, havingthose human connections.
One of the things that I try todo is try not to be in my
(36:05):
office too much.
Now there's time I need to bein there and do what I need to
do, but I have actually thisyear I've kind of embraced AI
even more and I've used it tocut down on some of that
remedial, repetitive stuff thatyou know what.
It takes me time, but if I canuse AI to free up time so I can
actually solve these others havesolutions to the other issues
(36:29):
that I'm dealing with I will beable to spend more time on
things that matter than onlittle minute remedial things
that you have to do on the dayin and day out.
I have found the impact, and soit's really awesome just to see
all the different things you cando and the things that you kind
of talked about there, becauseyou've listed some things I
don't even know about yet, andso I'm hoping people.
(36:51):
When they hear this, you knowthey can have some other options
out there, because even when Iwas at my state principals
conference just about a monthago, we were talking about how
do you use AI as principals andwhat do people do it for, what
are they using it for?
And so I got a lot more insighton that.
(37:13):
And then I know, following youand watching you on TikTok,
you're kind of starting to getinto that AI realm and talking
about how you can use it to makeyour job easier so you can
focus on the things that aremost important, which are the
people you're leading, and Iagree with you on that right
there, a hundred percent is useit as a tool so you can help
lead your people, you know, tohelp your building be successful
(37:36):
.
So I really love that insightthat you and do some just kind
of some rapid fire questions.
My first question is going to bebest leadership advice you've
ever received but then somebodyquoted it is that I think it's a
Steve Jobs quote.
Is that as a leader?
Principal Mo (38:18):
you're not.
You're not selling ice creamand you can't make everybody
happy.
Do the right thing.
You know, no matter whatsomebody is not, there's going
to be somebody that's not goingto be happy with it, but you
have to be happy with the factthat you did the right thing.
Yeah, you did right.
My kids.
Principal JL (38:29):
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
You got to keep the kids andyour staff and your teachers in
the forefront of those decisionsand making sure you know, hey,
it may not be popular but it'sthe right decision, and you took
the time to really thinkthrough that um decisions before
making it.
And I think people forget that.
You know we're not up here justmaking all these rash decisions
(38:49):
.
We're actually putting somethought into it because we have
all these different variables wehave to think through before we
make these decisions and, likeyou said, no one's ever going to
be happy, a hundred percent ofthe time, for sure, when you
make those decisions, especiallythe tough ones.
Do you have a favorite bookthat you that you've read?
Principal Mo (39:08):
Well, recently, believe it or not.
The alchemistist is one thatI've read that I've enjoyed
recently.
Revolutionary Principle byPrincipal Ra is another one that
I've read recently that I'veenjoyed.
And yeah, I think those are twothat I've read recently that I
enjoy.
Principal JL (39:27):
So in one word describe your leadership style
unconventional, unconventional.
Principal Mo (39:35):
okay, let's dig into that a little bit I, just I
, I think I, I do a lot ofthings differently and I don't
want to say it's a way that'smisunderstood, but I, I've
learned that from my, my new ap,he, he, just he's always, like
you know, like I would havenever thought of something that
(39:56):
way, I would have never thoughtto do that this way.
I think that, you know, I tryto really leverage the strengths
of my staff and my people.
I rarely make any type of liketop heavy decisions.
I always try to get that input.
You know, I'm always talking tostudents and getting input from
them about what they want tosee and what they want to do.
(40:17):
Always talking to students andgetting input from them about
what they want to see and whatthey want to do.
But, I think, just thinkingoutside the box and color, or,
like I always have to say,coloring outside the lines, just
, you know, breaking rules andknowing that, ok, I broke a rule
, but I'll just ask forforgiveness later, but we had to
see how this works first, likeyou know, like we've always been
doing it this way, what if wedo it that way?
(40:37):
Oh, we can't do it that way,okay, well, let's just try it
and see what happens.
So, just being just just takingthose risks, I think, and not
being concerned with so muchbacklash, I feel like sometimes
people, especially in our roles,like we're concerned with
backlash from different groupsof people and stuff like that
(40:57):
and how things can turn out, butI'm like, well, you know, if we
never try, we never know.
Yeah exactly.
And then also getting my staffcomfortable enough with doing
that, like usually I'll be like,hey, guys, I have an idea and
they're like, oh lord, but theyusually are like this is a good
idea, or or they, they add on toit.
(41:19):
They're like, yeah, and we cando this and we could do that.
I think that, you know, justjust having that, that, that
mindset of like you know, let'sjust try something new, let's
take a risk, let's do somethingdifferent and see where we can
go with it, I think that's justwhat makes my leadership style
conventional Awesome.
Principal JL (41:38):
Well, yeah, I really kind of.
I kind of I agree with thosethings, because the way
education is set up, it's beenset up the way it's been forever
and if we don't think about howwe can solve these same issues
in new ways, we're just going tobeat our heads against the wall
because we're going to be doingthe same things over and over
(41:59):
again.
And if you can find a way andfind a solution that may be
unconventional, you know what itdoesn't hurt anything because
you're solving the issue.
You're solving it, you'refinding a solution, but yet you
are helping the kids and theteachers in the process and it's
working.
And if you find something thatworks, why not do it instead of,
(42:21):
you know, have insanity on yourbrain when it comes to some of
those things.
Because, yeah, I love thatanswer when it comes to your
leadership style and beingunconventional with that
Principal Mo, it's been awesomehaving you on the podcast today.
I appreciate your time you know,and it's been great to just to
(42:42):
get you know, kind of hear yourinsights and the things that you
bring to the table.
As an educational leader, Ireally enjoyed our time and
getting to learn about learnfrom you, because that's just
part of this podcast is learningfrom other educational leaders,
and I definitely took somethings away from this podcast
(43:05):
and this episode as well, and soI appreciate your time for
coming on and put it up with myquestions.
Principal Mo (43:14):
No, thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
This so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
This appreciate you forinviting me.
This has been a really goodconversation and I think they're
necessary conversations to haveso that other leaders, aspiring
leaders, can hear what washappening on the ground.
Principal JL (43:32):
I hope you guys enjoyed this episode of the
Educational Leadership Podcast.
This interview was a lot of fun.
I really want to thankPrincipal Mo for taking the time
to come on this podcast.
I also want to encourage youguys to give Principal Mo a
follow, just like Deion Sanderssaid.
(43:55):
I ain't hard to find, neitheris Principal Mo.
You can find her on theseplatforms as Principal Mo Pretty
easy.
You can find her on Instagram X, tiktok, linkedin, blue Sky and
Threads.
So I really encourage you guysto give her a follow because
(44:16):
she's going to give you guysgreat insights and it would be
awesome to build this communityof educational leaders even more
than we already have up to thispoint.
I hope you guys really enjoyedtoday's episode and I would
really like to hear yourfeedback.
All you have to do is hit thatfan mail button and just give me
(44:39):
a shout out.
I would love to hear from youand see what your thoughts were
about the episode.
Until next time, always be 1%better.
Hey there, educational leaders, I am so
excited to bring you guys thisepisode, this episode.
I got to sit down with anaward-winning educator, a
nationally certified principalmentor and a bona fide
trailblazer in the world ofeducational leadership.
She has over 15 years ofexperience.
She's done it from you, youknow teaching, special education
(00:24):
, school administration.
She's done it at all thesedifferent levels and she's had a
lot of innovation and heart.
That's second to none.
Yes, I'm talking about thefamous Principal Mo today on our
podcast.
So excited, she's also rackedup some serious hardware.
(00:47):
She was named the 2020 Heart ofSchools Award Honoree and
earning the Maryland Associationof Elementary Schools Connected
School Leader Award for hercutting-edge leadership.
Let's not forget, principal Mois the mastermind behind
transformative initiatives likeaccelerated learning, gifted and
talented programming, artsintegration and STEM education.
(01:14):
You know, if it's making wavesin education, you bet Principal
Mo is at the forefront of it all.
But this is where things getreally exciting.
Throughout our episode, wetalked about a lot of her
educational leadership kind ofhow she sees educational
leadership, but she also talksabout bringing in artificial
intelligence into schoolleadership, how she can use AI
(01:36):
to empower educators, to harnesscutting edge tech to streamline
operations and to make smarterdecisions.
So she gives a lot of greatinsights about that today in
this episode.
And let's not forget PrincipalMo is an outstanding leader and
she's committed to equality andinclusion.
She believes that all studentscan learn and achieve and she
(01:58):
spends her career buildingsupportive, inspiring school
communities that reflect that.
Did I mention that she's aTikTok sensation?
Yeah, that's right.
She connects with educators andparents and students in a whole
new level, being creative withhumor.
Insights on the social mediaworld that's right.
(02:19):
We have the one and onlyPrincipal Mo here on the
Educational Leadership Podcast,so sit back.
I hope you guys really enjoythe conversation as much as I
did.
All right, everybody, this isPrincipal JL Today.
(02:44):
I'm really excited to havePrincipal Mo in the building
today.
We're actually on a restreamhere that we're recording, and
so welcome Principal Mo to thepodcast.
Thank you for having me.
All right, principal Mo, we'regoing to get things rocking here
.
Why education?
(03:04):
Why step into this wonderful,beautiful, messy world of
education and what?
Principal Mo (03:12):
inspires you to become a teacher.
Well, it wasn't so messy when Ijoined and you know, in
yesteryear it wasn't such a badplace to be.
But when I got my start ineducation I've actually been
working with children as long asI've been working so it was a
natural progression for me to gofrom a camp counselor to
working at church and Sundayschools and things of that
(03:36):
nature, to progress naturally inthe teaching.
I remember going to my collegeorientation and trying to figure
out well actually open houseand trying to figure out what
well actually open house andtrying to figure out what my
major would be.
Initially I wanted to possiblygo into psychology, but then I
saw how long I was going to haveto go to school and I knew I
still wanted to work withchildren.
So I chose to pursue a teachingdegree at Temple University and
(04:02):
I came out duly certified witha bachelor's in special
education and elementaryeducation.
Principal JL (04:11):
Awesome, awesome.
So you started as a teacher.
How long were you a teacher?
Principal Mo (04:17):
I was a teacher for four years in Philadelphia
and then I moved to Maryland andI was a teacher for two years
there.
Principal JL (04:26):
Awesome, your next step was going from teacher to
becoming an assistant principal.
What kind of led up to that?
What kind of go?
Hmm, I want to go from theclassroom into what people like
to call the dark side ofadministration and get into
becoming an assistant principal.
What kind of led into that foryou?
Principal Mo (04:46):
I think it was like an unintended step, because
what initially occurred wasthat I pursued my master's
degree when I was teaching inPhiladelphia and initially I was
only getting the master'sdegree for a pay bump right, you
know to go on the scale a bit.
And when I pursued my master'sdegree for a pay bump right you
know to go on the scale a bit.
And when I pursued my master'sdegree, initially I was only
(05:09):
going for curriculum andinstruction and special
education supervisor, because atthe time I was a special
education teacher.
The advisor advised me topursue educational leadership
because it was only, I think,like six more credits to get the
degree and to get an additionalendorsement in administration,
although I had no desire to movein that direction.
(05:31):
When I moved to Maryland, Iactually got a pink slip in the
state of Pennsylvania and fromPhiladelphia because they were
downsizing the teaching forcebecause it was a tumultuous time
in terms of having moreeducators than needed to land.
(05:51):
There are a lot of colleges,especially in the Philadelphia
area, so it was anoversaturation of teachers, so
that resulted in layoffs.
So I ended up in Maryland myspecial education department
chair.
She actually encouraged me tohave the district looking to my
endorsements and see if I waseligible to actually become an
(06:12):
administrator, because she feltthat I would be good for the
position.
She felt that, given myknowledge with special education
and elementary education, thatI would be a good administrator.
Initially I told her I thoughtthat that wasn't a good idea and
that I didn't think that that'swhat I really wanted to do.
I really always wanted to be ateacher.
I always wanted to be in theclassroom.
(06:32):
That was where my heart was.
That little nudge led me tobeing a special ed department
chair for about a good threemonths and then being thrown
into an assistant principalposition.
It's been a unique journey, butit's the one that I would be on
and it was definitely one thathas been rewarding.
Principal JL (06:54):
Awesome, Awesome.
So it's kind of one of thosethings you weren't looking for,
but it found.
You is kind of how that workedout.
How long were you an assistantprincipal from that time?
Oh yeah, were you an assistantprincipal from that time?
Principal Mo (07:06):
Oh yeah, I was an assistant principal for four
years at a middle high school,so I went from elementary and
middle to middle, then to middlehigh school, which was fun.
Principal JL (07:19):
It was an interesting experience.
So you got to see everythingK-12, basically, from teaching
the assistant principal.
So you got a really good graspof the different levels and kind
of what you see and kind of howyou lead in those different
capacities.
So that's really interesting.
So you're an assistantprincipal.
You've done it for about fouryears.
(07:40):
What kind of go.
I want to take that next stepto becoming a building lead.
Principal Mo (07:51):
You know what was the story behind taking that
next step in your educationaljourney.
Well, jl, one thing that youwill notice is an ongoing trend
and theme in my story and myjourney to the principalship is
that I didn't want to be aprincipal either.
So once again, it was anothernudge.
I was an assistant principal.
I was in my second year as anAP my original assistant
(08:12):
superintendent.
He approached me.
He said I think, you know,there's going to be some
principal ships coming up and Ithink you're really ready for it
.
At the time I was pregnant withtwins oh boy and yeah.
And so I was like no, I don'tthink this is a great idea.
I'm one that's all aboutbalance.
And so I was like you know, I'mdue in June and you want me to
(08:34):
start a new principal shit.
I'm going to be coming freshoff maternity leave and going
into a personal position.
I just don't think that that'sa wise move for myself and my
family, you know.
So I said you know I'llcontinue to learn, I'll continue
to grow and then, if theopportunity presents itself,
then you know I'll pursue it.
But I did go through theprincipal pool, like you know
(08:56):
the performance at Tassin Centerand all of that and I passed.
But then I got into a programcalled Promising Principals here
in Maryland.
It was a program, a principalpreparation program for
assistant principals andexpiring school leaders.
My mentor at the time and mycoach during the program, she
(09:19):
said hey, I know a little schoolthat I think you might be
interested in leading.
Do you want?
Are you interested?
And so, leading, do you want,are you interested?
And so I said you know, itdoesn't hurt to explore and take
a look.
It was in a different districtthan the one I was currently in.
So you know, I visited theschool.
I talked to some of the peoplebecause I wanted to just really
see what it's like.
Once I did that, I took onestep in the building that I am
(09:45):
in today and I said this feelslike home and it feels like
where I should be.
Then I started to see how thingscould look in the building, how
things could improve, how wecould expand, and once I started
having that vision for abuilding that I didn't even
leave yet, I knew I needed to bethere and that's how I ended up
(10:06):
as a principal.
I've been a principal at myschool now for eight years and
this school is pre-K througheight, so I have been a building
leader in pre-K through 12.
So that type of insight that'sreally helpful in terms of
knowing what's next for students.
So knowing what's next for mymiddle schoolers who are going
(10:26):
to high school and even beyond,in making sure they have, you
know, the necessary preparationand understanding of what's
required for them to go intohigh school, and then also
talking to them about whatcollege could potentially look
like, I think sometimes peopledon't really realize that in,
you know, in middle school isthe real preparation for life,
(10:47):
although it's a really squirrelytime for kids.
But you know when you go to highschool and what you do in high
school dictates what you doafter high school.
So you know those decisionskind of have to be made early
and I don't think a lot ofpeople realize that.
And I always try to, like youknow, drill it into my parents
and my families and my studentsthat you know this is an
important time in your life andyou really need to learn and
(11:09):
take advantage of that.
Principal JL (11:11):
Yeah, you bet I remember I was a 7-12 principal
one time and I really focused onthat middle age, that 7th, 8th
grade age, because I knew if Igot where I needed them to go, I
knew they would be successfulin high school.
If I got where I needed them togo, I knew they would be
successful in the high school.
You know, that's really awesomethat you are taking the time to
make sure that those kids areready to take those next steps.
So, because when you get in thehigh school, everything starts
(11:32):
to count even more.
So you got to get them ready,get them rocking for that.
You know, going from teacher,going from assistant principal,
Now you're a building leader.
You've been now, you've beendoing it for eight years.
But within that time you wentfrom leading a building, which
you still do, to becoming aTikTok sensation, a Prince
(11:55):
fluencer.
What kind of like led you tothat?
Like, what, what?
What was the encouragement tobe like?
You know what I'm going to hitrecord, I'm going to do these
videos and you know what.
What led you up to that?
Principal Mo (12:11):
Honestly, what led up to that was when I started
my TikTok account.
I started my TikTok accountwith the intention of reaching
my students.
I knew that they were on TikTok, I knew it was a new
application, that they were onTikTok.
I knew it was a new applicationand I'm the type of person I'll
try.
I will try a new.
(12:33):
I will try a new you know appor a new social media site, just
to see what it's like and tosee if I like it.
So I, you know, I just hoppedon the bandwagon and initially I
made public serviceannouncements or PSAs, for my
students about, like, doingtheir work, logging on to
virtual learning, you know, justall these things and infusing
my level of humor into it.
I eventually grew this likehuge following that I didn't
(12:56):
even expect to get, but itturned out that I had a
community of people who were inthe same boat as me.
I was very vulnerable about whatit was like being a building
leader during the pandemic andthe significant changes that we
experienced, how it impactededucation.
You know how I dealt with humorand you know and how you know,
(13:20):
even like you know, the mentalhealth side of things.
And then, after amassingsomewhat of a following and just
making you know content that Ithought that people would want
to see.
Then there will be, like brandsand different people reaching
out to me and then I was likewait a minute.
I said I thought only teacherscould be, like you know,
influencers.
And so now I'm like a printinfluencer.
(13:41):
You know I try to influence.
You know, as a leader, you'realways trying to influence
people.
But now it's a little moreintentional in terms of, like
you know, getting people tolearn about different things,
whether it's, you know, learningabout hiring.
Like you know, I did a seriesabout how you need to Interview,
(14:02):
tips on how to get into theassistant principal position.
You know any aspiring leaders.
So doing those videos and justhelping other people in my
TikTok community and in mysocial media community has been
truly a rewarding experience,knowing that I'm helping someone
else.
So I have to know what has beenthe funniest or the most
(14:24):
surprising reaction you got fromstudents, other teachers,
parents when you kind of gotinto this TikTok adventure uh,
so for students, it was one dayI'm in the cafeteria as I do,
I'm, you know, in the cafeteriajust doing one studio, and then
(14:45):
one kid yells out principalworth, you're tiktok famous.
You know that.
Right, and I was like what?
Because one thing that Isometimes don't pay attention to
is that, even though I'm makingthese videos and like people
viewing them, people have torealize people are viewing them,
so people are seeing what I'mdoing.
And then even some of myparents, my parents, were
(15:07):
telling other parents about myTikTok account and they follow
me.
If I would go live, sometimesthe parents would ask me
questions.
It was just a really unique andauthentic way to really connect
with my community, my schoolcommunity, my parents.
They love my account apparently.
So you know, I get a lot ofpositive feedback.
(15:28):
They like it when I incorporatethe students.
I just started a social, asolid social media team where we
make regular content for theschool and they, they really
embrace it.
So it's really nice to be inthat type of community where
it's embraced, because I knowthat's not the case everywhere.
So, but that's been, it's beena really unique experience and
(15:50):
it's a lane that a lot of peoplearen't in and it's also
rewarding to be kind of at theforefront of something and to be
able to help other people andkind of lift as I climb.
Principal JL (16:03):
So what would you tell somebody like maybe a
principal that's in our position, you know the utilization of
social media Because you know wehear from, like our district
office, like well, you got to becareful with that.
Yeah, you know you don't wantto go too far, you know what I
(16:24):
mean.
So what kind of advice wouldyou give somebody that's a
principal in our position that'sthinking about you know what I
think?
Maybe getting into social mediaand utilizing that to leverage
to connect with my families,with my students?
What advice would you give them?
Principal Mo (16:37):
So the first thing is that you have to figure out
what your personal brand isgoing to be.
My personal brand is I say I'mnicheless most of the time, but
there are certain rules that Ifollow.
The first thing is that I don'tpost anything that's negative.
There is no profanity and evenin the songs that I use there's
(16:58):
no profanity.
I don't use profanity.
Make certain that everythingthat I do online is palatable
for the youngest child in mybuilding.
That makes sense, oh yeah.
The second rule that I have isthat if I do make a video, I
don't want to press postimmediately and it gives me any
(17:19):
type of pause for concern.
I don't post it.
So just making sure that, likeyou know, if every time you make
a video, you always think aboutyour audience, how is your
audience going to receive this?
How are they going to interactwith it?
How are they going to reactwith it?
And even from the youngestchild in your building to you
know your parents and thingslike that, because once again,
(17:40):
they see social media.
You know that content does getpushed out to them and somebody
will see it.
You just have to be mindful ofwhat it is that you're posting.
Oh no, it's also a good thingto have a little fun, but you
always just want to make surethat you're adhering to your
district guidelines and thingslike that.
But that's how I've built mypersonal brand.
(18:01):
The internet is that you knowmost of my content.
Even if it's humorous, it's notoffensive, because a lot of
times jokes can be offensive tospecific groups of people.
You know no discriminatoryjokes, you know, just just those
things are just making surethat things are done in good
taste is really important.
Also, being careful about, likeyou know, having students in
your you know, in your contentand in your videos.
(18:23):
You know, making sure that youhave parental consent.
Like you know, I have a socialmedia team and like they're in
the videos.
But the parents know they'rewell informed, they consent to
it.
The school consent forms arenot your consent forms.
Like, you need to make surethat you're talking to your
families about that.
Those are all very importantthings, just making sure your
T's are crossed and your I's aredotted in that specific realm.
(18:46):
But, you know, also showcasingthat you're having fun, your
day-to-day life as a principal,as a leader, your thoughts and
ideas, just making sure thatthey align with, once again,
your district guidelines andthings like that, making sure
that they align with, once again, your district guidelines and
things like that.
So, I think, just making surethat your personal brand, if you
are going to go into this realmwhere you are posting as a
(19:07):
principal, there's still a levelof, there's still that morality
clause.
Whether it's spoken or unspoken, that's there and you need to
abide by it, and I think thatthat's really important.
And if you're showcasingyourself in your personal life,
just making sure that that'scopacetic and okay and, once
again, palatable for your wideaudience that you either have or
(19:30):
will amass after you know,creating enough content.
Principal JL (19:34):
Really good advice .
I really appreciate yourinsight on that, someone that
has actually kind of beenthrough the ropes and done all
those things.
You know, sometimes with socialmedia there's some negative
aspects and sometimes you mayhave some negative comments.
Kind of tell us about how youhandle when you have those
negative things.
(19:54):
I know you have a lot ofpositive things, but there are
those negative things that dohappen on social media.
How do you, how do you handlethose those type of situations?
Principal Mo (20:04):
One thing that I have done is, you know,
sometimes you just have toignore those comments.
A lot of times I just respondThanks for the engagement
Because at the end of the day,whether you receive a positive
comment or a negative one, itcounts for engagement on your
posts.
Yeah, so I just say thanks forthe engagement because either
way, you supported me.
That's one of my go-toresponses.
(20:27):
If it's something that'sdisrespectful in nature, I will
address it, because I think thatwhen people talk to each other
on the internet, there's no waythat you would say that to
someone's face, and I think thatit's really important to let
somebody know that you haveboundaries about how people
speak to you and how peopleinteract with you.
So I'll kind of let them knowthat I didn't like what they
(20:49):
said.
And you know, at the end of theday, you don't have to interact
with my content.
You don't have to say anythingto me, you know.
Like you know, just feel freeto block me if that is, you know
, if I'm bothering you that much.
So you know, I've let peopleknow that I don't think there's
anything wrong with establishingboundaries and then sticking to
those boundaries and enforcingthem.
I think it's a fine line whenyou start to jab back, and
(21:12):
that's not what you should do.
You should just let people knowthat these are your boundaries.
Like you know, I tell peopleall the time I'm all for
discourse, but not disrespect,you bet.
And so we can have differingopinions.
We can engage in discoursewithout being disrespectful to
one another.
You know, and I always say I'mhappy to talk with you, I'm
happy to you know, converse, butyou know, if it gets to a point
(21:35):
where it's disrespectful, thenwe have to discontinue the
conversation.
Principal JL (21:37):
But you know, if it gets to a point where it's
disrespectful, then we have todiscontinue the conversation.
All right, well, we're going togo ahead and pivot a little bit
.
Being a principal, being onTikTok is fun and everything.
But let's talk about managingthe stress of the job.
You have a hard day.
You're triage, we triage allthe time.
Right, we have the copiersbreaking down.
We have, you know, if you havean assistant principal, we have
(21:59):
an assistant principal going.
Hey, we have this situation.
We need to kind of cometogether on this.
You have a teacher reaching out.
You have all these thingscoming at you.
At the end of the day, what doyou do to kind of manage the
stress of the job?
You know what are some.
Do you have, like, some funthings?
You like to do some ways tokind of decompress and kind of
(22:20):
uh, you know, get yourself back.
You know to yourself.
So you're, you know, notletting the stress go home with
you.
How do you manage those things?
Principal Mo (22:30):
uh well, there's some things that I do, but like
in terms of just like managingthe stress from day to day, if I
reflect, like on my car ridehome and stuff like that,
sometimes, if it's a bad daylike there's like my car ride is
pretty quiet, thinking aboutwhat happened in me, thinking
about what happened Iacknowledge what happened, but I
(22:52):
try not to like wallow in it.
Also, what I ask myself is whatdo I need to do to make sure
that I never have this type ofday again?
Like you know what waspreventable, what was in my
locus of control, what was Iable to do to?
What am I able to do to moveforward and not have this type
of day again?
Like, do I need to re-examinesystems?
(23:13):
Do I need to re-examine, youknow, responses to certain
situations?
That's one of the things that Ido do, a few outlets that I
have.
I do know how to DJ.
I learned how to DJ in thepandemic, so that is a creative
outlet for me.
I like to do a lot of creativethings.
Principal JL (23:31):
So you have like a turntable yes, like a turntable
, and everything.
Principal Mo (23:36):
Yes, I have all my equipment.
I used to DJ on TikTok everynow and again too.
Oh, wow, um, yeah, and like theparents as soon as um, yeah, so
I like.
So that's one thing that Ireally enjoy.
It's a good outlet for mebecause I really do love and
enjoy music.
So that's one thing that I do.
Um, another thing I do I Ithink most educators do this
(23:58):
they talk to their spouses andthen, like you know, god bless
my husband, god bless the spouseof educators, because I know
they get an earful almost everyday about different things that
happen in our daily lives.
(24:29):
And so and he's learned not toalways offer up a solution, like
sometimes he knows that I'vealready got the solution I just
that it's really easy to allowthe negative things in your
daily work to kind of cloud yourbrain and to consume most of
your thoughts, when you shouldreally be thinking about, like,
the small positives and thesmall ones that you had, you
(24:52):
know, and just always trying topush through with that
positivity.
Because, at the end of the day,if you allow those negative
thoughts and you allow thatnegativity to really cloud your
mind and you know your thoughts,they feed off your energy.
You know you set the tone asthe school leader in your
building.
It's the type of energy that'sin your building and the type of
energy that people receive.
(25:14):
So it's really important toalways try to really rise above
and combat that negativity,because at the end of the day,
you don't want to become thesource of toxicity.
Principal JL (25:24):
Yeah, awesome.
That's a great insight there onhow to manage some stress and
kind of get yourself not tothink of you know we're gonna
have negative things, but tokind of get yourself to where
you know what this happened.
We're gonna move on.
We're make a negative into apositive.
Learn from it, move, learn andgrow, um, as you go through this
.
So that's some great insightthere.
(25:46):
And so, principal though, whatdo you like to do, fuck?
Principal Mo (25:52):
Oh well, I think I told you one.
Yeah, yeah, djing.
I am a collector of manydifferent things, thanks to
being neurodivergent.
I collect sneakers and I have ahuge collection of sneakers
that I have collected over theyears and now it's getting to
the point where it's like, okay,I need to stop, because what's
(26:14):
happening is the shoes that Ihave now they're being
re-released, so that's how Iknow like I need to like and
getting on getting shoes.
I've been collecting shoes fora good bit um, for over, I want
to say like around 15 years.
I've been collecting shoes.
That's been a long-term hobbyof mine.
I recently got into perfumesand fragrances.
(26:36):
Uh, I, like you know, spendingtime with my friends and we talk
about like all kinds of things.
One of my hobbies is actuallysocial media.
I really do enjoy it.
I enjoy talking to people, Ienjoy building community in
different capacities and I justenjoy.
I just enjoy differentcommunities.
Like I have a lot of differentcommunities, especially around
(26:56):
the hobbies that I engage in.
I enjoy event planning, oddlyenough.
So, like the logistical piecesof my job lend me really well
for an event planner yeah, youbet yeah and hosting like
different events about differentthings.
So those are the things thatI'm like into, and I do some
crafting here and there too, youknow, and I like to watch
(27:20):
movies and TV shows.
I'm a I'm a really big actionperson, like action films and
suspense.
Principal JL (27:29):
What's your favorite?
What's your favorite actionmovie?
Principal Mo (27:34):
Right now I would say the Equalizer series or even
the Taken series.
Those are really really good,like a one-man show.
Take it what, take it later,you bet.
Principal JL (27:48):
I really enjoy those.
I will find you.
Yes, we'll see you, those aregood ones.
Those are good ones for sure.
Let's kind of turn the page tothe future of leadership, the
future of educational leadership.
Where do you find technology,especially with the AI, really
(28:10):
kind of exploding now?
Where do you see that foreducational leaders and how do
you think that's going to impactwhat we do?
Principal Mo (28:20):
I hope it alleviates what the kind of the
busy work that we do is leaders,because that's what I've been
using it for mostly.
You know, composing letters,helping provide teachers with
feedback or developing coachingquestions, being a thought
partner around a problem,analyzing data Like these are
all great ways to use AI to kindof save time.
(28:43):
So then, that way and I alwayssay, you know, focus on the
people and not the paperwork,because at the end of the day,
you know, our main priorityshould be the people in our
building.
But that's what, that's what Ihope it does.
I know, like you know, I thinkit was like in the UK there was
like a like an AI quoteprinciple unquote which I know
that scared a lot of people, butI thought it was pretty cool
(29:05):
and I thought that was like youknow, maybe we could have this
type of technology that couldactually help us.
But I think people don'tunderstand about AI is that AI
is artificial.
Intelligence needs a human tofunction.
It needs somebody to ask itwhat to do and to prompt it and
to provide queries.
It can't function, essentially,without a prompt.
(29:25):
Whenever you ask it, it'll do,but it won't do anything without
you.
But I think that the people whoembrace it now will be far
better off than those who arescared of it.
Now, what I liken it to?
And I think you and I have bothlived through this era in the
initial new information age,when we transitioned from having
(29:46):
commercial like, having like todo research in books and
libraries, and then internet,yeah, I remember, yeah, so you
know, librarians were freakingout because, as jesus and
altavista was around, and so Ithink that's what's happening
with type, like technology itwas, it was this big boom and it
was a huge change in a shift,whereas now, like you know, the
(30:09):
internet has not replaced alibrarian and that's what
librarians thought was going tohappen to them and their jobs is
that it was going to replacethem.
It's like no, actually thelibrarian teaches people how to
use the internet, yeah, and, andthey teach you how to reset
research using the internet, andyou know they teach all these
other classes using the internet.
I think that if we use it as a,you know, if we see it as using
(30:30):
a tool and not something that'sgoing to eliminate positions or
eliminate jobs, I know that'slike the biggest thing that they
see.
There is no way like artificialintelligence is intelligent as
it could be, couldn't even dothis job.
Principal JL (30:43):
Yeah, no, they're not being replaced, they're not
being replaced at all.
Principal Mo (30:50):
I think that that's what that's what a future
really is.
It's like if you could justhave like an AI assistant just
even just to go through youremails and like automatically
reply, like you know, to acceptcertain calendar invites, to see
if somebody can reschedule, tojust schedule out some things
that you know you need to happen.
You know, like those are veryminor things that we spend a lot
(31:11):
of time on you need to happen.
You know, like those are veryminor things that we spend a lot
of time on, we're prioritizingwhich emails to read first.
You know, like that, just thosethings you know based on the
immediate need, or you knowthings that are due sooner than
others.
I think that AI could be areally great tool for that.
It is a great tool.
I think that it, like I said,the sooner that people embrace
(31:32):
it, the better off the thingwill be.
Principal JL (31:35):
Awesome, Awesome.
What's your?
Do you have some favorite AIplatforms that you like to use
the most?
Principal Mo (31:42):
So, yes, I do so, I actually use.
I've been using ChatGPT sinceit was in beta testing.
That's been since 20, what 2022?
Yeah, so I've been using it fora good bit and had been working
with it, and then, when ittransitioned to paid, I paid for
it.
So I was like this is a reallyhelpful tool.
I've used the AI features, andthe AI features in Canva have
(32:05):
been really helpful.
Some other cool tools that areout there are Notebook LM, and I
think that's really great forprincipals.
That platform helps you consumelarge amounts of information in
a palatable way.
Like some ways is that youcould just ask it a question and
(32:26):
it'll find the text that'llanswer your question.
Find the text that'll answeryour question.
So say, for example, like youknow, I don't know if your
teachers are unionized, but wehave a contract.
It's hundreds and hundreds ofpages and then before you had to
do control F planning time, andthen find all the different
excerpts about planning time.
Whereas with notebook LN, I cango in how much planning time is
(32:48):
required for this type ofteacher and it'll extract all
the information, and it took asecond, whereas before it took
about 10 to 15 minutes.
So it's cutting your time downsignificantly.
It can also take lengthydocuments and turn it into a
podcast and it'll have like twopeople like you and I telling us
about, like, the content of thedocument, which is also really
(33:10):
cool.
So if, like you have a longcommute, you could listen to
that Like instead of, like youknow, taking the extra time to
read it.
That's another one.
I could talk about AI all day.
You can be here for two hours,yeah, and every day I learn
about a different tool and howto use it.
But, like chat, chat GPT is abig one.
(33:32):
Notebook LM has been reallyhelpful in just like helping my
daily work.
Something that I like to do forfun is I like to use Dolly, and
that is a I using a Africa togenerate pictures and words, and
Sora S O R A, which is aapplication where you could
generate videos from words okayoh, wow, two, two really cool
(33:56):
apps.
Yeah.
So, and what I like to do is Ilike I call it ai stacking.
Sometimes I will do a promptand chat gpt and then take that
answer from that prompt and likeput it in, maybe tesora, to
like kind of beef up myvocabulary and imagery around
something that I want to see.
So then that way the video isbetter depicted in the way that
I envision it.
(34:16):
So it's like there's a lot offun things that you could do,
like even in Sora you can makevideos, like you can make clips,
for example, that you can evenuse like on your school social
media.
It's, the possibilities areabsolutely endless in terms of
using ai to help alleviate themore time-consuming pieces of
(34:39):
your job, and not just with theprincipal shit in school
leadership, but also with, Imean, teachers.
They're the ones that reallygot it good first, because they
were able to get all of thesetools specifically geared
towards them.
You know, I'm a little jealousbecause magic school ai is
another good one.
No, especially fordifferentiating materials.
(35:02):
Oh, my god, I'm so jealous.
As a special educator, I wentyeah, this was available when I
was, you know, when I wasteaching special education, like
leveling texts anddifferentiating different pieces
of content.
It's just the possibilitieshave really been writing IEP
goals and progress monitoringfor those goals.
I can't even tell you how manytimes like I was like at home
(35:24):
sitting in the evening watchinglike Scandal on a Thursday and
like writing IEPs and IEP goals.
Yeah, so you know there are alot of great tools out there for
educators to use, to kind ofjust, you know, help them get
around the like, theadministrative pieces of our job
so that we can reach kids andour stakeholders.
Principal JL (35:45):
But I think you're hitting on something there.
This is a tool.
This is something that weshould embrace and use so we can
get those remedial things,those nuanced things that we
have to do, but so we couldspend more time with our staff
leading our building, havingthose human connections.
One of the things that I try todo is try not to be in my
(36:05):
office too much.
Now there's time I need to bein there and do what I need to
do, but I have actually thisyear I've kind of embraced AI
even more and I've used it tocut down on some of that
remedial, repetitive stuff thatyou know what.
It takes me time, but if I canuse AI to free up time so I can
actually solve these others havesolutions to the other issues
(36:29):
that I'm dealing with I will beable to spend more time on
things that matter than onlittle minute remedial things
that you have to do on the dayin and day out.
I have found the impact, and soit's really awesome just to see
all the different things you cando and the things that you kind
of talked about there, becauseyou've listed some things I
don't even know about yet, andso I'm hoping people.
(36:51):
When they hear this, you knowthey can have some other options
out there, because even when Iwas at my state principals
conference just about a monthago, we were talking about how
do you use AI as principals andwhat do people do it for, what
are they using it for?
And so I got a lot more insighton that.
(37:13):
And then I know, following youand watching you on TikTok,
you're kind of starting to getinto that AI realm and talking
about how you can use it to makeyour job easier so you can
focus on the things that aremost important, which are the
people you're leading, and Iagree with you on that right
there, a hundred percent is useit as a tool so you can help
lead your people, you know, tohelp your building be successful
(37:36):
.
So I really love that insightthat you and do some just kind
of some rapid fire questions.
My first question is going to bebest leadership advice you've
ever received but then somebodyquoted it is that I think it's a
Steve Jobs quote.
Is that as a leader?
Principal Mo (38:18):
you're not.
You're not selling ice creamand you can't make everybody
happy.
Do the right thing.
You know, no matter whatsomebody is not, there's going
to be somebody that's not goingto be happy with it, but you
have to be happy with the factthat you did the right thing.
Yeah, you did right.
My kids.
Principal JL (38:29):
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
You got to keep the kids andyour staff and your teachers in
the forefront of those decisionsand making sure you know, hey,
it may not be popular but it'sthe right decision, and you took
the time to really thinkthrough that um decisions before
making it.
And I think people forget that.
You know we're not up here justmaking all these rash decisions
(38:49):
.
We're actually putting somethought into it because we have
all these different variables wehave to think through before we
make these decisions and, likeyou said, no one's ever going to
be happy, a hundred percent ofthe time, for sure, when you
make those decisions, especiallythe tough ones.
Do you have a favorite bookthat you that you've read?
Principal Mo (39:08):
Well, recently, believe it or not.
The alchemistist is one thatI've read that I've enjoyed
recently.
Revolutionary Principle byPrincipal Ra is another one that
I've read recently that I'veenjoyed.
And yeah, I think those are twothat I've read recently that I
enjoy.
Principal JL (39:27):
So in one word describe your leadership style
unconventional, unconventional.
Principal Mo (39:35):
okay, let's dig into that a little bit I, just I
, I think I, I do a lot ofthings differently and I don't
want to say it's a way that'smisunderstood, but I, I've
learned that from my, my new ap,he, he, just he's always, like
you know, like I would havenever thought of something that
(39:56):
way, I would have never thoughtto do that this way.
I think that, you know, I tryto really leverage the strengths
of my staff and my people.
I rarely make any type of liketop heavy decisions.
I always try to get that input.
You know, I'm always talking tostudents and getting input from
them about what they want tosee and what they want to do.
(40:17):
Always talking to students andgetting input from them about
what they want to see and whatthey want to do.
But, I think, just thinkingoutside the box and color, or,
like I always have to say,coloring outside the lines, just
, you know, breaking rules andknowing that, ok, I broke a rule
, but I'll just ask forforgiveness later, but we had to
see how this works first, likeyou know, like we've always been
doing it this way, what if wedo it that way?
(40:37):
Oh, we can't do it that way,okay, well, let's just try it
and see what happens.
So, just being just just takingthose risks, I think, and not
being concerned with so muchbacklash, I feel like sometimes
people, especially in our roles,like we're concerned with
backlash from different groupsof people and stuff like that
(40:57):
and how things can turn out, butI'm like, well, you know, if we
never try, we never know.
Yeah exactly.
And then also getting my staffcomfortable enough with doing
that, like usually I'll be like,hey, guys, I have an idea and
they're like, oh lord, but theyusually are like this is a good
idea, or or they, they add on toit.
(41:19):
They're like, yeah, and we cando this and we could do that.
I think that, you know, justjust having that, that, that
mindset of like you know, let'sjust try something new, let's
take a risk, let's do somethingdifferent and see where we can
go with it, I think that's justwhat makes my leadership style
conventional Awesome.
Principal JL (41:38):
Well, yeah, I really kind of.
I kind of I agree with thosethings, because the way
education is set up, it's beenset up the way it's been forever
and if we don't think about howwe can solve these same issues
in new ways, we're just going tobeat our heads against the wall
because we're going to be doingthe same things over and over
(41:59):
again.
And if you can find a way andfind a solution that may be
unconventional, you know what itdoesn't hurt anything because
you're solving the issue.
You're solving it, you'refinding a solution, but yet you
are helping the kids and theteachers in the process and it's
working.
And if you find something thatworks, why not do it instead of,
(42:21):
you know, have insanity on yourbrain when it comes to some of
those things.
Because, yeah, I love thatanswer when it comes to your
leadership style and beingunconventional with that
Principal Mo, it's been awesomehaving you on the podcast today.
I appreciate your time you know,and it's been great to just to
(42:42):
get you know, kind of hear yourinsights and the things that you
bring to the table.
As an educational leader, Ireally enjoyed our time and
getting to learn about learnfrom you, because that's just
part of this podcast is learningfrom other educational leaders,
and I definitely took somethings away from this podcast
(43:05):
and this episode as well, and soI appreciate your time for
coming on and put it up with myquestions.
Principal Mo (43:14):
No, thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
This so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
This appreciate you forinviting me.
This has been a really goodconversation and I think they're
necessary conversations to haveso that other leaders, aspiring
leaders, can hear what washappening on the ground.
Principal JL (43:32):
I hope you guys enjoyed this episode of the
Educational Leadership Podcast.
This interview was a lot of fun.
I really want to thankPrincipal Mo for taking the time
to come on this podcast.
I also want to encourage youguys to give Principal Mo a
follow, just like Deion Sanderssaid.
(43:55):
I ain't hard to find, neitheris Principal Mo.
You can find her on theseplatforms as Principal Mo Pretty
easy.
You can find her on Instagram X, tiktok, linkedin, blue Sky and
Threads.
So I really encourage you guysto give her a follow because
(44:16):
she's going to give you guysgreat insights and it would be
awesome to build this communityof educational leaders even more
than we already have up to thispoint.
I hope you guys really enjoyedtoday's episode and I would
really like to hear yourfeedback.
All you have to do is hit thatfan mail button and just give me
(44:39):
a shout out.
I would love to hear from youand see what your thoughts were
about the episode.
Until next time, always be 1%better.
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