What separates exceptional educational leaders from the merely competent? According to Dr. Frank Buck, it might be as simple and as challenging as reliable organization systems. His journey from band director to productivity expert reveals a crucial truth: educators aren't typically fired because students performed poorly at a concert, but because they forgot to order the buses to get there.
Dr. Buck's leadership philosophy centers on supporting teachers by removing obstacles to their core instructional work. With experience spanning classroom teaching, building leadership, and district administration, he's observed firsthand how systematic approaches to organization create environments where both teachers and students thrive. His fundamental principle? External systems for capturing commitments allow your brain to focus on what truly matters teaching and leading rather than constantly trying to remember countless details.
The digital revolution has transformed how we manage information, but Buck argues the underlying principles remain unchanged. Whether using a paper planner (his original "little book that impressed teachers") or sophisticated digital tools like Remember the Milk, the key is developing reliable systems where nothing falls through the cracks. Buck shares practical strategies for implementing digital task management, leveraging AI tools like ChatGPT to enhance productivity, and creating repeating task systems that eliminate the need to reinvent processes annually.
For aspiring leaders, Buck emphasizes mentorship and persistence, encouraging educators to seek administrative positions before they feel fully ready, understanding that the application process itself builds crucial networks and experience. His most powerful insight might be the simplest: "Good teachers come and stay if you treat them right." Creating systems that support teacher effectiveness ultimately creates the environments where students can flourish.
Ready to transform your leadership through better organization? Visit frankbuck.org to access free resources, join his email list, and discover how simple systems can dramatically improve your effectiveness as an educational leader.
Dr. Frank Buck's Website: https://FrankBuck.org
"Get Organized Digitally!: Here Are Updates To The Book"
https://frankbuck.org/get-organized-digitally-updates/
Dr. Frank Buck's social media links:
Linkedin: http://linkedin.com/in/DrFrankBuck
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@drfrankbuck
Instagram: http://instagram.com/drfrankbuck
Facebook: https://facebook.com/@DrFrankBuck
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/frankbuck.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Principal JL (00:00):
Joining me today on the show is Dr Frank Buck, a
veteran school leader andadministrator.
He has served as a banddirector, principal and central
office leader.
Dr Buck is a nationallyrecognized author, speaker and
expert in organization, timemanagement and personal
productivity areas.
(00:20):
Every educational leader canbenefit from mastering areas
every educational leader canbenefit from mastering.
He's the author of impactfulbooks, including best-selling
Get Organized Time Managementfor School Leaders and Get
Organized Digitally theEducator's Guide to Time
Management.
Dr Buck has delivered powerfulpresentations at conferences
across the United States, canadaand even Australia, helping
(00:46):
educators simplify their livesso they can better serve
students.
Now get ready for somepractical wisdom, powerful
strategies and a deep dive intosystems that help leaders do
what matters most.
Now let's get to our.
(01:17):
I have Dr Frank Buck.
Welcome to the show.
Dr. Frank Buck (01:23):
Thanks, jeff, it's a pleasure to be here.
Principal JL (01:25):
All right, frank, I'm going to ask you the same
question that I ask everybodywhat inspired you to become an
educator?
Dr. Frank Buck (01:34):
Jeff, we'd have to go all the way back to junior
high school.
I joined the band when I was inseventh grade and my original
dream was to be a professionalin a symphony orchestra.
So I played flute.
And then I read an article thatsaid well, here are the 150
jobs in the country.
You're going to have to waittill somebody dies for there to
(01:55):
be an opening and there'll be200 applications for that job.
So I thought maybe I need aplan B.
Well, every secondary school inthe country's got a band needs
a band director.
I'm thinking those are a littlebit better odds.
And I grew up very near theUniversity of Alabama.
That was kind of the hub of allthings band in the state at
(02:19):
that time.
So I was around a lot of thereally good band directors and I
was hearing the better bands inthe state.
And so one thing I was noticingearly on was this Whenever a
band director who had a reallygood program moved to another
school, that next year that bandwas better, and the next year
(02:40):
it was a lot better.
And it didn't matter if it wasurban, suburban, affluent
community, large school, smallschool.
When a good band director wentinto another school, the band
got better.
So the message to me was look,if you're willing to work hard,
(03:01):
this is a profession where youcan experience success, and
experience it early in yourcareer.
So from like ninth grade, Isaid I want to be a junior high
band director when I grew up,and that's exactly what happened
.
Principal JL (03:16):
All right, frank.
So let's talk about.
You know your teaching career.
You know what.
What did you teach?
I mean band, of course, but youknow, was there anything like I
know for?
I mean band, of course, but youknow, was there anything like I
know for my high school?
We have band, we have orchestra.
We have other opportunities fordirectors as well.
So let's talk about classroomexperience in this case.
(03:37):
And then what are some thingsthat you learn as a teacher?
Dr. Frank Buck (03:42):
Well, I was lucky enough to be in a
situation where my full day wasbanned I mean had a Cadillac
schedule and I feel veryfortunate to have started in the
situation that I did.
As I look back, I think evenback then and we're talking,
1982 is when I started beingorganized was so much of it.
(04:07):
Yeah, you need to be a goodmusician, that sort of thing.
But let's face it, people don'tget fired from their band jobs
because the clarinets didn'tquite play so well in tune at
state contests.
You get fired because youforgot to order the buses and
it's time to go to statecontests and we're all standing
(04:28):
on the corner waiting for thebus and the bus isn't there
because the bus had never beenrequisitioned to start with.
So those are the kinds ofthings that get you in trouble.
And those were the kinds ofthings where I was really strong
.
And of course you know you'realso wanting to get along with
the other faculty members.
Well, if you turn your grades inlate and the homeroom teacher
(04:51):
can't put them on the reportcard, we're talking back in the
days when everything was penciland paper.
You know, if you're doing thatkind of stuff, you're not
endearing yourself to yourcolleagues.
So when you're handling yourresponsibilities, especially
where they impact somebody else,things just go a whole lot
(05:12):
smoother and, you know, gainingthe reputation that look, this
new band director we got.
Yeah, he's young, but he's gothis act together.
You're not going to have tostay behind him and remind him
to do this or that.
Once you say something to him,once he's got it, he pulls that
little memo pad out of hispocket, he jots it down and it's
like a steel trap and so peoplebegin to have confidence in you
(05:35):
.
And, looking back, that wassuch a big thing for me.
Principal JL (05:41):
Yeah, I mean I agree with you.
As a principal, you know havingan organized director and you
know choir and band and thoseare huge because there's a lot
of moving pieces and they're notjust working on the academic
side but they're working on theextracurricular side as well.
So they got a lot of thingsgoing on and you had to learn
(06:04):
early how to manage those typeof things.
Let's talk about getting intobecoming a school administrator,
educational leader, a principal.
You know what led you to pursuethat role.
Dr. Frank Buck (06:18):
If you had asked me my first year as a band
director, fourth year as a banddirector or eighth year as a
band director hey, you thinkyou'd ever like to be the
principal?
I would have told youabsolutely not.
I do not want that headache.
You give me my band program andyou get out of the way, because
I can control what happens inthose four walls and I know how
(06:43):
to teach kids.
That's what I want to do for 30years.
Year number nine we got a newprincipal at our middle school,
henry Clark, and what I saw,what one person could do in a
situation where we already had avery high performing middle
school.
When I saw what one personcould do to take the culture of
(07:07):
that school and move it forwardand just to get everything
running on all cylinders, Ibegan to rethink that.
And so he was the inspiration.
So I started taking the how tobe a principal courses.
Dr Clark kind of took me underhis wing and did my
administrative internship withhim.
He gave me responsibilitieslike cheerleader tryouts.
(07:33):
Oh boy, did I learn a lot there.
And then eventually he was abig one.
That helped me get that firstadministrative job and I think
you probably hear that from alot of other people.
There was that one person whereyou said, look, maybe I could
do that and impact more peoplethan what I was impacting there
(07:57):
in the band room.
And I never regretted it.
I loved every day as aprincipal.
Principal JL (08:02):
You bet, yeah, I mean you're kind of hitting on
things that you know I'm shakingmy head too, cause I'm like,
yep, that that's kind of how Ilooked at it too.
I mean, I taught in theclassroom for 11 years.
I was a math teacher, peteacher, I coached, you know, um
, you know several different uh,sports.
So you know, for me to stepaway from what I really, I
(08:24):
really enjoyed what I was doing,but it all came down to impact.
I can have a bigger impact andfor me, it was my wife's grandpa
that kind of said hey, you'remeant to do more.
You really need to.
You know, think about being aprincipal because you do such a
good job in this role.
A principal because you do sucha good job in this role you
(08:48):
would even do even you know goodthings in this role as well.
So I hear you on that.
When becoming a principal,being able to have the impact
yes, you get some headaches, butthat comes with the job.
But at the same time, beingable to impact not just students
but teachers and community is ahuge deal when you're a
principal.
So let's talk about yourprincipalship.
(09:09):
What are some things that youlearned through that process and
you know about the leadershiprole, the people, any systems
that you may have used in thattime.
Dr. Frank Buck (09:22):
Yeah, you know, through my experiences with Dr
Clark, to me the biggest thingwas hire good people and support
them.
You know, let them do theirjobs.
When people from the outsidelooked at that middle school and
the way Dr Clark did things,you kind of had the impression
(09:43):
that wow, wow, he has his thumbon everything because everything
was so smooth.
But when you were on the inside, you know where you were
sitting down with him,one-on-one.
It's amazing the flexibilitythat you had.
I mean his.
His philosophy was frank whenit comes to band, you're the
(10:03):
expert.
If I came to him with an ideaband, you're the expert.
If I came to him with an ideaFrank, you're the expert.
What do you think he expectedyou to have thought it through.
He didn't want to do the jobfor you, but if you came to him
and you had a good idea and youthought it through, he'd support
you on it.
He'd say go ahead.
If you need me for something,you let me know, but you go
ahead.
(10:23):
And to me that's the thing thatseparated the best ones that I
had from some of the others.
So I tried to take thatphilosophy with me.
I was lucky enough as anelementary school principal to
be in a building where thefaculty it was a more mature
faculty.
(10:43):
It was a place people wanted tocome and stay and it continued
that way.
Yeah, nobody ever left.
So in the summer the hiringprocess was like, sometimes
nobody, you know, nobody can.
So you know, hiring good people, letting them do their jobs.
(11:03):
And then the thing that I wasreally good at was, you know,
like as a band director, beingorganized, putting systems in
place and then doing the samething as an administrator.
What paperwork can we take offof teachers?
What procedures can westreamline?
What can we do that is notcentral to teaching students
(11:26):
that teachers are doing and takethat off of them?
So it was just, you know, onething after another and you know
and teachers really appreciatethat you know just putting those
systems in place.
Principal JL (11:39):
Yeah, I mean you're saying a lot of things
there that you know a lot ofpeople out there you know if
you're not trying to, if you'renot supporting your teachers,
you need to Because in order tobuild that retention, even in
the climate of today, they gotto know that you have their back
(12:00):
.
And, just like you said, youknow the teachers, like at the
high school level, they'recontent driven, so they're the
content experts.
And I taught math, I taught PE,so I have that in my background
.
But when it comes to otherthings like you know band, when
it comes to science, when itcomes to English, when it comes
to you know other, you knowcontent areas I have to rely and
(12:24):
, you know, support my teachersthat are in those content areas,
because I'm not going to beable to solve all their problems
because they're the expert I'mnot, but I can support them, I
can help them along and maybehelp them streamline some things
that they're thinking about tomake it a better system or a
better process that they'reworking through, and I think
(12:45):
having systems in place andstreamlining things and trying
to take things off a teacher'splates is huge.
One thing that I did just thispast semester is.
We piloted an AI product calledMagic School AI, which has
helped teachers differentiateinstruction, but also it's
reduced some of their planningtime so they can focus on the
(13:07):
engagement and the teaching ofthe content.
And I have to spend so muchenergy, you know.
You know thinking of all thesedifferent ideas and you know
they even more experiencedteachers were loving it because
they're like, hey, there's ideasI'd never even thought of and I
taught for 30 years, so youknow, being able to find
different ways to do that ishuge as an administrator, as a
(13:30):
principal, in this role, so I'mreally glad that you hit on that
.
But there was a time you wentfrom principal into the district
leadership role.
Could you talk about what thatrole was and what inspired you
or motivated you to make thattransition?
Dr. Frank Buck (13:51):
Well, I had been at the same elementary school
for nine years, was actually ata point where I could have
retired, thought about retiringand going to another state and
draw the retirement and crankingit up as a principal.
But a job came open at thecentral office, or actually
(14:12):
rather, was created at thecentral office.
It'd been vacant, where ourcurriculum coordinator had left
five years before and instead offilling the position, they just
said Frank, why don't you justkind of do elementary curriculum
plus run your school?
So a curriculum position wascreated and I applied for it,
(14:35):
got it.
They also gave me specialeducation because okay, because,
after all, special education,that won't take much time,
you'll do a great job, frank.
And professional development.
And it turned out if it wasn'tfederal programs or feeding the
kids, it was me.
It was a small central officebut again, you know, I was the
(14:56):
guy that could wear lots of hatsand keep lots of balls in the
air.
So I think I was kind of theperfect person for it.
And again, I'm supportingprincipals trying to use
technology to reduce paperworknow on the entire school system
rather than, you know, than justmy school.
(15:17):
And it was.
It was enjoyable, I'd say notas enjoyable as the
principalship.
So so for the principal who'sthinking about, hey, do I want
to go to the central office?
Think twice, think twice.
You'll miss the kids, you'llmiss the teachers.
I know, as a principal, some ofthe most down days were those
(15:39):
meetings at the central office.
The central office it was likelet me get out of this meeting
and go back to my school and runmy school and just walk up and
down the hall and see what'sgoing on in classrooms and
forget some of this junk that wejust went over in the
principal's meeting.
Principal JL (15:54):
Yeah, no, I mean I kind of hear you on that.
You know I've been blessed.
My superintendent doesn'trequire us to be at a ton of
district level meetings.
We have them.
I mean they're there when weneed them, but at the same time
they know for us our best spotis in our buildings, with our
kids, with our staff, every day,and if we need to go do some
(16:15):
things, we go do them, but thenwe're right back to doing the
things that we're designed to doand I think everybody's got a
reason and a way to transition.
But for you, you actually gotto kind of do some of the
principalship stuff and thedistrict office stuff, and so
that's kind of a uniquechallenge, and so let's talk
(16:35):
about that.
What are some things that werechallenges when you're in that
role, when you're looking attrying to support leaders in
schools but also trying to runyour school at the same time?
Dr. Frank Buck (16:48):
Well, of course, you know, every principal has
some ideas for how they want torun their school.
So sometimes balancing, youknow, this is what they really
need to do with.
Maybe that's not what they'recomfortable with.
For example, you have, someprincipals are more comfortable
with technology than others.
(17:09):
So whereas one principal wouldsay, you know, I say, well, you
know, there's several ways thatyou could do this.
And that principal would lookat me and say, well, how did you
do it?
How do you do it Because it'sworking for you?
Tell me what you're doing.
I want to do the same thing.
And then there would be, youknow, another principal that was
like no, I've been doing this along time, Just sort of leave
(17:31):
me alone.
You know, that's one of thethings about the central office
your influence is broader butthe power is less.
You can suggest things, you canpresent things, but the
ultimate decision maker in somany cases is the principal in
(17:52):
that school, which I think isthe way it should be, because we
do hold the principalaccountable for so many things.
So I think so much of the finalword needs to be there with the
principal.
Again, it goes back to the samethe support, you know the
support for teachers if you're aprincipal, the support for
principals if you're in thecentral office.
Principal JL (18:14):
Yeah, I mean you keep coming back to supporting.
How are you supporting yourteachers?
How are you supporting theschool principals and using
those experiences?
And I know for me, like, yeah,I can draw on my experiences,
but at the same time, it's notabout how I would do it.
It might be how can I help youdo it to the best of your
(18:35):
ability?
And those are things that I'vedone as a principal or school
leader in my time to help myteachers and help my students,
and basically that goes back tohey, you're the content expert,
what do you think?
You know, I'll come with anidea and you're like going
(19:15):
no-transcript.
I'm empowered by this becauseI'm taking ownership in it, so I
think that's really great.
Dr. Frank Buck (19:24):
Yeah, and Jeff, one thing I want to interject.
So many people talk about thekids.
Think about the kids.
We're all about the kids andabsolutely yes.
Kids, the kids, think about thekids.
We're all about the kids andabsolutely yes, kids come and go
through the years.
But good teachers come and stayIf you treat them right.
And good principals come andstay.
(19:45):
And if I'm, if I'm a principal,the best thing I can do for the
kids in my school is put agreat teacher in that classroom
and then ditto, when you're inthe central office.
How do you get the very bestteachers?
You can attract them to yourschools and your school system
and then put some, put thethings in place that cause them
(20:06):
to want to stay there.
Principal JL (20:08):
Yeah, and I think that's huge, even like even in
the times we're living today,where you know you have teacher
shortage, administrator shortage, I mean.
I mean it's it's.
It's a very tough time and I'vebeen lucky that I only had two
staff members this year not comeback, one to retirement one.
(20:29):
I'm running a building of about84 certified certificated staff
, 130 total staff, and so justto have two turnovers and then I
filled all my vacancies.
I'm like oh and yes, I'm like,you know, that's like got me
pumped up, right.
So you're right on creating aplace that people want to come
(20:51):
and stay and be a part ofsomething that's bigger than
themselves, and it's somethingthat I believe and something
you're kind of hitting on there.
So you're hitting everythingright on that one there.
Let's talk about you know,somewhere along the way you
decided I'm going to become anauthor, all right, and let's
talk about you know.
(21:12):
It looks like you have a fewbooks.
Get Organized Time Managementfor School Leaders you have two
editions of that and then GetOrganized Digitally the
Educator's Guide to TimeManagement.
So let's talk about whatinspired you to write these
books and what was it that yousaid?
(21:32):
You know what.
This is something that othersmay need, and kind of talk about
that.
Dr. Frank Buck (21:38):
Well, kind of that story began when I was
working on my doctorate.
Between the band director timeand the principal time was four
years as a middle schoolassistant principal, and so
during that time I got mydoctorate.
During the time that I was amiddle school assistant
principal we got thedissertation.
(21:59):
So from what everybody haslistened to so far, it's like
yeah, well, frank's theorganized guy here.
So no surprise that I decidedto do my doctoral dissertation
on time management.
It was a study of the timemanagement practices of Alabama
principals, and so one of thethings that I ran across was you
(22:19):
know, there's so much that'swritten about time management
for the business world, butespecially at that time there
was very little written directlyaimed at educators, and so you
know you could read businessbooks and gain some ideas from
that.
So I thought, well, let's gothe other way, let's write our
(22:39):
stuff for educators, and ifdoctors and lawyers and other
people want to look over ourshoulder and steal our ideas,
hey that's fine.
So did the dissertation andduring that time also put
together a little workshop forteachers and administrators
based on the things that I wasdoing and the things that I was
learning, and that started togrow and grow and grow.
(23:01):
So I walk in my office one dayand there's this email.
It's an email from Bob Sickles,at that time the president of a
company called Eye on Education, and what he said was Frank, I
read a review that you did onone of our books, so your name
(23:22):
was, kind of you know, front ofmind with me.
And then I read this articlethat you wrote for Principal
Magazine and I said to myself,wow, that's the same name I just
saw on this review.
I googled, you found your blog.
See, I've been blogging forabout a year.
And he says have you everthought about writing a book?
(23:43):
And if you have, I'd love towork with you.
Now, probably all of us at onetime or another have said you
know, I'd love to write a bookwhen the time is right.
Well, the time doesn't get anymore right than the president of
a publishing company emailingyou saying, hey, I want to work
(24:05):
with you.
So basically took the workshop,put it together in the form of
a book and six months later itwas ready to go to press.
And about six months later,because you got to pick the
cover and all kind of littlethings that have to happen.
So another six months and itwas out.
Get organized Time managementfor school leaders, first
(24:26):
edition.
So when people say, hey, frank,how do you contact publishers
and pitch to publishers, I'mlike I have no idea.
I was the lucky one that justchecked his email and they want
to work with me.
But loved the process thatfirst book did very well, opened
(24:49):
up a lot of doors, speakingengagements and national
conventions and especially,being a practicing principal at
that time and a practicingcentral office administrator,
national conferences were likecome on, come on.
Now, once you retire and youbecome well, this is Frank Butt,
(25:09):
president of Frank ButtConsulting Incorporated.
They're not, as you know,they're really looking at those
practicing administrators.
So word to the wise out therefor anybody thinking about you
know, the side hustle sort ofthing Start it while you're
actually in your job, whereyou're walking the walk, not
just talking the talk.
Principal JL (25:35):
Yeah, I mean that's really great advice there
, frank, and you know, like forme, I want to just help other
principals and other schooladministrators out there.
That's why I started my podcast.
Yes, I'm still a practicingprincipal and I plan on being
that for a while.
I still got 12 years beforeretirement, so I got some time
here.
So you know, I'm 18 years in, Igot 12 more and then we'll see
(25:55):
how things go.
But yeah, I mean that's reallygreat advice that you could give
other people that may look towant to have something like that
in the future.
So let's talk about just yourbooks in general.
What were the goals of the book?
How do they help people?
What are some big takeawayspeople can get from reading your
(26:17):
books?
Dr. Frank Buck (26:20):
Well, the two that are out there right now.
The second edition of GetOrganized Time Management for
School Leaders is written withthis idea in mind that if
someone picked up that book 50years from now, it would still
be relevant.
It talks about practices,principles of organization and
(26:45):
time management definitely moreon the digital side of things,
but you won't see the word Applein it.
You won't see the word Apple init, you won't see the word
Google, you won't see the wordMicrosoft in there, because
technology changes a good bit.
But what I talk about in thereare things that you could do,
regardless of what the tools are.
(27:07):
Get Organized digitally took theopposite approach.
My publisher actually came backto me in 2020, and we all
remember 2020, don't we?
Yeah, we do so.
Covid schools are out.
If it wasn't for technology, wewouldn't have had school
(27:30):
anywhere.
So now, what had been nice youknow, being fluent in technology
those things that had been nicewere now crucial.
And they came back to me andsaid, would you do another book
and just approach it from thedigital side?
So I said yep, and I'll tellyou what I'm going to do.
(27:51):
Instead of the generalprinciples that are going to be
relevant 50 years from now.
I'm going to talk about thespecific tools that I'm using
today.
And if six months from now, oneof them goes belly up, hey it
happens, we'll publish somethingthat'll kind of keep people up
to date.
(28:11):
And so we wrote get organizeddigitally.
So if you want to know, well,frank, what is the digital task
manager you use Bam.
It's there.
Exactly how I use it, how doyou keep your digital notes?
It's there.
Best email practices, it's allthere.
And then I've got a blog postthat kind of has said OK, here's
what's changed since the bookwas published.
(28:33):
And you know, between buyingthe book, reading the blog post,
you know you're right up todate.
So it was a very different book, but one I'm very glad I did,
because it does get so specificin terms of here's exactly what
I do on a daily basis and theseare the tools that I use to do
(28:54):
it with, and most of them arefree.
Principal JL (28:56):
Yeah, so what are some big changes that you have
seen since you wrote the GetDigitally Organized?
Dr. Frank Buck (29:03):
Gosh.
Okay, the big changes?
Well, of course, it's littlethings like Evernote has done a
lot of things much better.
Now they have really, reallyexpanded the things that they do
, but they cut their free planback.
So whereas I was saying, heyguys, you know this is what you
(29:25):
can do for free, well, you can'tdo quite so much of that for
free now, but there's a lot ofother things that you're able to
do.
But I'll tell you what we'll do.
Maybe we can put the link tothat blog post in the show notes
.
As soon as we get throughrecording this, I'm going to go.
I should have talked about thisand this and this, because
those are the biggest freechanges.
Principal JL (29:47):
Yeah, frank, that's what we'll do.
Well, we'll go ahead.
We'll take a link to that blogif people are interested.
We'll do.
Well, we'll go ahead.
We'll take a link to that blog.
If people are interested, we'llput it in the show notes so
people can can read about it.
I was just curious because Iknow you've done your work on
writing a book and I know you'retrying to update people on that
and so you know how is kind ofai change things when it comes
to getting people organized andbeing a platform people could
(30:10):
use in that digital space.
Dr. Frank Buck (30:13):
Yeah, there are a lot of possibilities out there
for people.
One is sort of using it as aGoogle enhancement.
You know, we come to you, put acouple of keywords into a
Google search and then here area bunch of sites that you could
go to and hopefully one of thoseis going to answer your
(30:34):
question.
Now you just talk to ChatGPT oryou talk to Claude, just like
you talk to another person, andinstead of giving you a list of
sources, it just tells you yourstuff.
You know how do you fixwhatever it may be?
Think about Facebook groupswhere somebody says gosh, I'm
(30:56):
going to be interviewing for ajob as a principal.
Can somebody give me somesample questions I need to be
ready to answer?
Well, don't ask a whole bunchof different principals for that
.
Type it in chat, gpt, just likethat.
I'm going to be interviewingfor a job and get specific as a
(31:16):
middle school principal in arural community, I'm going to be
replacing a principal who hasbeen in that school for 20 years
and describe a little bit aboutthe community.
What are some questions Ishould be prepared to answer?
Bam, and there it is for you.
(31:37):
It's, you know, uh, in in my ownwork.
Now, you know I'm, each week Ido a blog post.
It's also a youtube video and Irepurpose it as a newspaper
column.
Well, to write, to write thetext, I just grab my phone and
I'm dictating into my phone.
So I need to kind of clean thatup for a blog post.
(32:00):
I can take the text, throw itin, claude, and say please
correct the grammar errors ofyou know, kind of fashioned it
into a blog post, putappropriate subheadings, please
suggest five titles that will beintriguing for people.
Oh, and give me a keyword thatwill be SEO friendly for the
(32:25):
blog and give me a metadescription that contains my
keyword.
And while you're at it, couldyou refashion the blog post into
a newspaper column, so forth?
And I need about five tweetsand put some hashtags and emojis
in there.
So it's still it's me composingthe ideas in the content, but
(32:46):
instead of spending all the timewith okay, now I got to revise
it for the newspaper and I needto make it about 600 word, ai is
doing that for me and all thelittle times where you know
you've written an email, but itsure would be nice to have
somebody else read it and sayit's coming off a little harsh
(33:09):
Throw that sucker into chat, gptor into cloud and watch it say
this statement might be a littleoffensive to people.
Why don't you say this instead?
So it's like having that otherperson beside you, that really
smart person that's calling onthe world's knowledge and going
(33:29):
to give it to you free.
Principal JL (33:31):
Yeah, I mean you kind of hit a lot of ways that
you're talking about using it.
I use it as well.
So if I'm putting out an email,I'll have it.
Help me clean up my email.
It's still my words.
I'm having it presented in away that I need it to be
presented.
Tone, especially when you'resending out like parent emails
right, you want to make sure thetone is right.
(33:52):
You're getting the point across, but you're seeing what needs
to be said, but in a way thatthey can accept it and not get
offended by it or get all up inarms about the email that you
put out.
I prefer to just have phoneconversations when I can, but
there's times when you need tohave emails and having something
to help you not develop it, butto help you just streamline it
(34:17):
or make it just better than youwould have out of your own head
sometimes.
So I kind of utilize it in alot of different ways that
you've talked about it as well.
So let's talk about you knowsome strategies people can can
use.
Are there favorite strategies?
You have to help people getorganized.
Dr. Frank Buck (34:38):
Well, this is the kind of question that I
guess asked a lot.
You know, where would you startwith someone?
Well, you know, if you'd askedme that question in 1982, I
would say get yourself a memopad, stick it in your pocket
Every time something comes yourway that you need to remember.
You have something to put onthe calendar, something that
(34:59):
needs to be done, an idea thatyou want to be with, something
to put on the calendar,something that needs to be done,
an idea that you want to bewith.
Pull that thing out, write itdown, and when you stick that
memo pad back in your pocket,you've earned the right to
forget about it.
See, for me, forgetting is agood thing.
I don't want to have to keepall this stuff in my head and so
, luckily, that was somethingthat I've been doing my whole
(35:20):
teaching career and one of thethings that helped me be so
organized.
So, 1982, put the memo pad inyour pocket.
So now it's 2025.
Pull the phone out of yourpocket, hit one little widget on
the home screen and speakwhatever it was that you have
written in.
You know, call Bob about theXYZ project, get milk at the
(35:45):
grocery store.
Put the phone back in yourpocket.
It does the remembering, and soyou just give everything a date
.
So it's just like a, you know,just like a paper planner.
Really.
Everything has a date, and soI'm never getting up in the
morning going, okay, what do Ineed to do today?
You know, let me take a blankpiece of paper, make a list.
No, that stuff is already thereand it's coming back to me on
(36:09):
the days that I want it.
So, first of all, just having agood digital task manager I use
Remember the Milk, and even thefree version is amazing.
You know, like, think about allthe repeating tasks that you
have as a principal, all of thethings that you're going to be
doing the month before schoolstarts and you were doing those
(36:32):
same things last year a monthbefore the school starts.
And so once you've got those,you know, you just throw it in
there and go gosh, I'm going tobe doing that same thing a year
from now.
Make it a repeating task, orI've got to do this every month.
Put it in there once, tell itwhen to repeat, and these things
just keep coming back to youexactly when you need to do it,
(36:55):
because I think you know thehard part about our jobs is not
so much that the individualthings are hard.
What's hard is keeping up withthem all.
Let's use technology to do thekeeping up with them all.
Make life a little bit easierfor all of us.
Principal JL (37:10):
You bet.
I mean, I think that's kind ofwhere we're at right.
We want to be able to utilizetechnology to help us be more
productive, and I like how youtalked about getting things
written down.
I know just the way the brainworks.
If you could take what you'rethinking about and write it down
somewhere if it's on a scratchpaper, if it's on in your phone
(37:33):
just being able to have itwritten down then it allows your
brain to go.
Okay, I know where it's at, I'llget to that when I need to, but
it allows you to basicallyallows your brain to free up so
you can manage other tasks thatare coming at you.
So I really you know, no matterkind of how long you've been in
this or where you're at in yourjourney getting things written
(37:57):
down or organized in a way towhere you don't forget it is
huge because it does take a loadoff you mentally because you
got a lot of things coming atyou and sometimes you feel like
you're drinking through a firehose some days when you're a
principal.
So you know it's good to havesome sort of program or
(38:17):
technology that can help youstay organized in those things,
and so I really appreciate thatkind of advice that other
administrators can take andutilize, and it's something you
can do now.
It's something you can do today.
You know something prettysimple as that can actually help
you out tremendously.
Dr. Frank Buck (38:38):
So yeah, and it is so teachable.
One experience when I firstbecame a principal and so this
was 1997.
So at that time I mean I didn'thave the phone.
Back then I had my paperplanner and it was my signature
tool.
If you saw me, you saw thatlittle book.
(39:01):
So kind of the buzz with thefaculty is what is he writing
that little book?
Dr Buck, he's always got thatlittle book and they started to
see real quickly that whatevergot written down in that book
happened, it got done.
So they were really intriguedby the little book.
So one of those professionaldevelopment days when we had to
(39:23):
come up with something I justsaid we're going to talk about
the little book this morning andso I showed them exactly how I
used it to keep up witheverything and to keep up with
phone calls and notes fromone-on-one conferences, for how
I could get back to it easilyUsed a day timer at that time
(39:45):
and the day timer corporationactually sent me little samples
where everybody could try itfree for a month and then most
of the faculty.
They wound up like this is lifechanging and they wound up
subscribing to day timer for awhile.
Because it is so teachabledescribing the day timer for a
(40:06):
while.
Cause it, it it is.
It is so teachable and itreally makes life so much easier
when you're not keeping up withall these little things in your
head and then beating yourselfup about how dumb you are
because you forgot this littlething.
Principal JL (40:19):
No, no, I mean that's awesome.
I mean I would say people, ifyou're not doing those things,
start, because it will help youtremendously when it comes to
trying to stay organized andkeeping things that you need to
get done on time and on task andthings like that.
I know what you're talkingabout.
There's times I'll forgetsomething and I'll feel like, oh
geez, you know, I feel stupidbecause that and you're not,
(40:45):
it's just you have so much goingon and it does help you to stay
organized.
So, Frank, what are some thingsthat you are working on today
in your educational consultantrole?
Dr. Frank Buck (40:59):
Well, I've got two courses out there right now
that are independent bookstudies aimed at Alabama school
principals because, part ofrenew, each one is eligible to
be a professional learning unit.
So I've got those out there andso I'm constantly working on
(41:28):
those, improving those.
I would love to expand that tosome other states as well.
Speaking engagements you know,since 2020, we all learned how
to how to use Zoom.
You know, since 2020, we alllearned how to use Zoom.
So it's really opened upopportunities for professional
(41:52):
development where I can be hereinstead of getting on an
airplane to go somewhere else.
So providing professionaldevelopment to other people has
gotten so much more affordableand I love to do that sort of
stuff doing some one onon-onecoaching and just having a good
time helping other people findan easier way to work and play.
Principal JL (42:09):
Frank, let's talk about aspiring leaders.
Do you have any advice forpeople that are looking to get
into the educational leadershiprole, and what advice would you
give them?
Dr. Frank Buck (42:22):
First of all, have a mentor.
You know I mentioned Dr Clarkand then also my very first
principal, harry Anderson, whotaught me how you go about
supporting teachers, becauseanybody in that building would
tell you that that man had yourback.
That was one of those places.
(42:42):
People wanted to come and theywanted to stay because they knew
they had a friend in theprincipal's office.
He told me the first day I cameto work.
He says Mr Buck, my first jobas principal of this school is
to help you with the disciplinein your classroom so that
learning can take place.
Wow, and he meant it.
(43:06):
He was as good as his word.
And, yeah, he helped establishan environment where learning
happened, because people were intheir seat, listening with
their materials, so forth and soon.
So definitely have a mentor.
There's so much to learnwithout trying to learn it
(43:28):
yourself and make the mistakesyourself.
Learn from other people.
Let them tell you about themistakes they made and the
better way to do it, so youdon't have to go and make those
same mistakes again.
And you know, and as I look atpeople who were successful and
you start to talk to them, theystart to talk about the mentors
(43:49):
that they had.
That helped them when they gotstarted.
And they tell you about you.
Know, gosh, I applied, like DrClark.
He said I applied for ninedifferent administrative
positions before I ever got one.
And he said and Frank, your dayis going to come and when it
does, you're going to be gladyou didn't get some of these
(44:13):
other jobs that you applied for.
And he was absolutely right.
So have a mentor, go out thereand apply for those jobs.
You know, if you want to getinto school leadership, don't
wait until the time is right.
You're not going to get thefirst job, but you want people
(44:33):
to move from thinking, oh, frankBuck has applied for a
principalship, you wanted tomove from that to.
I wonder if Frank's going toapply for this next
principalship to.
You think Frank's going to getthis next one.
People are thinking of you asthat teacher who's successful
(44:55):
and you want them to startthinking about you in a
different light.
And then the next thing, youknow you're the one who gets
that job.
And then, once you get thefirst administrative job, then
it's easy to go from there.
So go ahead and put in theapplication early and you're
getting to know people, you'regetting experience with
(45:17):
interviews, and then that'sgoing to happen for you
interviews and then you knowthat's going to happen for you.
Principal JL (45:25):
Yeah, frank, you said something in there that I
think it's really important tobring out.
You will learn something as yougo through the process, when
you want to, when you're lookingfor that administrative
position, and so every interviewis going to be valuable.
Every contact and connectionyou get is going to be a lead to
the next thing.
If you don't get that positionand that's kind of what happened
(45:48):
with me my first principalshipwas because I interviewed for a
principalship that I didn't get,but I impressed the
superintendent in that one thatwas leaving for another
superintendency that had anopening for a principalship and
asked us to apply for that.
And through that process is howI got my first principalship.
And then, when I wanted to stepout of the small rural school
(46:12):
and go into a more of a biggersuburban or urban size school,
you know the connections that Ihave from being and being a
principal helped me with gettingthat job as well, and so those
connections that you make andthe things that you learn
through those processes arereally important.
(46:32):
And I agree having a coach,because even today people are
getting into these seats withvery little experience Now
you'll have a lot of experiencewhen you get into principalship.
But I'm talking about they maynot have been in education very
long when I'm talking about theymay be in your one, two, maybe
three years and now you're beingasked to lead a school.
(46:52):
Having somebody to guide youthrough that is very key,
because when you have somebodyto bounce ideas off of, it's
going to be very valuable,because you may be a principal
in a small rural school and youmay not have another
administrator.
You may have yoursuperintendent bounce ideas off
of them.
You may have an elementaryprincipal to bounce ideas, but
(47:15):
to have people from outside ofthat network is huge when you're
becoming a new principal andyou want to do this job well.
And I think learning from otherpeople is another huge key,
because that's how I learn.
I don't make some mistakesbecause I learn from other
people that made those mistakesand so I know what to stay away
(47:36):
from.
And so I think that's veryvaluable as a principal that you
need to learn from other peopleand take their lessons and try
not to repeat them, becausethere's a reason why it didn't
work the first time, so try notto do you know, don't want to
beat your head against the wall.
Don't do something that youknow is not going to work, and
(47:57):
be there to support your staffand support your kids is super
important as well.
So, frank, we've talked about alot of different things today.
I really appreciate you beingon the show.
Is there anything that youwould like to leave our
listeners, and how could theyconnect with you if they want to
learn more?
Dr. Frank Buck (48:16):
Absolutely.
Thanks, jeff.
Come over to my website.
It's just my name,frankbuckuckorg.
First thing, when you get there, you'll see a little spot where
you can join my email list.
You're going to get two freegifts you're going to want.
One is what's basically thefirst chapter of my book get
(48:36):
organized, going to show you howto get your desk clean, get the
paper going in the right place,and then, several days later,
you get an ebook on how to setup and you use, get the paper
going in the right place, andthen, several days later, you
get an e-book on how to set upand use Remember the Milk the
way I have mine.
They go very detailed and thenyou know once a week.
From there, you get a littlee-mail from me every Tuesday at
11 am Central Time.
(48:56):
That just gives you tips, givesyou ideas, kind of keeps you up
to date with what I'm doing.
Just gives you tips, gives youideas, kind of keeps you up to
date with what I'm doing, what'snew on my website, what's new
in my blog, so forth, so on.
So, frankbuckorg, join the emaillist.
Hey, binge out on the blog post.
There are plenty of them there,and you know, just enjoy, just
(49:19):
enjoy.
You know, jeff, this has beensuch a pleasure and I hope that
the audience gets a lot out ofthis.
Principal JL (49:26):
I really got a lot out of this.
I learned a lot from you todayand that's what makes doing
these podcasts so much fun is Iget to learn from other people
that have been there done that,and then I get to share that out
with the audience so they canlearn from people like you that
are doing the work and helpingadministrators become the best
they can be.
But, frank, before we go withyou, being from Alabama, is it
(49:51):
Roll Tide?
Dr. Frank Buck (49:52):
or is it War Eagle?
For me it's definitely RollTide Grew up near Tuscaloosa.
I still remember the bear.
Principal JL (49:59):
There you go, there you go, there you go.
So don't don't take it out on,frank, if you're a war Eagles,
because I have a lot of peopleout there that are both either
Auburn or Alabama fans.
So you know, I just wanted toknow.
It's like stuck in my head, Ihad to know that.
So you're a roll tide guy,which you know.
I'm a Nebraska corn, nebraskaCornhusker guys.
(50:24):
So here we go.
You know, frank, it was greatto have you on the show today.
I appreciate everything thatyou shared and all your links
and things will be in the shownotes for people to make it
really easy for them to click on.
So I really appreciate youbeing here today and thank you.
Wow, what a conversation with DrFrank Buck.
His expertise and practicalstrategies to help us get
organized, manage our time andlead with greater intention.
(50:46):
Whether it's using digitaltools more effectively or
developing simple systems thatstick, dr Buck reminds us that
productivity isn't about doingmore.
It's about doing what mattersmost.
If today's conversationresonates with you, I encourage
you to check out his books GetOrganized and Get Organized
(51:07):
Digitally.
Visit frankbuckdogorg for moreresources, such as his blog and
tools to support your leadershipjourney.
You can find these resources inthe show notes.
Until next time, be 1% better.
Joining me today on the show is Dr Frank Buck, a
veteran school leader andadministrator.
He has served as a banddirector, principal and central
office leader.
Dr Buck is a nationallyrecognized author, speaker and
expert in organization, timemanagement and personal
productivity areas.
(00:20):
Every educational leader canbenefit from mastering areas
every educational leader canbenefit from mastering.
He's the author of impactfulbooks, including best-selling
Get Organized Time Managementfor School Leaders and Get
Organized Digitally theEducator's Guide to Time
Management.
Dr Buck has delivered powerfulpresentations at conferences
across the United States, canadaand even Australia, helping
(00:46):
educators simplify their livesso they can better serve
students.
Now get ready for somepractical wisdom, powerful
strategies and a deep dive intosystems that help leaders do
what matters most.
Now let's get to our.
(01:17):
I have Dr Frank Buck.
Welcome to the show.
Dr. Frank Buck (01:23):
Thanks, jeff, it's a pleasure to be here.
Principal JL (01:25):
All right, frank, I'm going to ask you the same
question that I ask everybodywhat inspired you to become an
educator?
Dr. Frank Buck (01:34):
Jeff, we'd have to go all the way back to junior
high school.
I joined the band when I was inseventh grade and my original
dream was to be a professionalin a symphony orchestra.
So I played flute.
And then I read an article thatsaid well, here are the 150
jobs in the country.
You're going to have to waittill somebody dies for there to
(01:55):
be an opening and there'll be200 applications for that job.
So I thought maybe I need aplan B.
Well, every secondary school inthe country's got a band needs
a band director.
I'm thinking those are a littlebit better odds.
And I grew up very near theUniversity of Alabama.
That was kind of the hub of allthings band in the state at
(02:19):
that time.
So I was around a lot of thereally good band directors and I
was hearing the better bands inthe state.
And so one thing I was noticingearly on was this Whenever a
band director who had a reallygood program moved to another
school, that next year that bandwas better, and the next year
(02:40):
it was a lot better.
And it didn't matter if it wasurban, suburban, affluent
community, large school, smallschool.
When a good band director wentinto another school, the band
got better.
So the message to me was look,if you're willing to work hard,
(03:01):
this is a profession where youcan experience success, and
experience it early in yourcareer.
So from like ninth grade, Isaid I want to be a junior high
band director when I grew up,and that's exactly what happened
.
Principal JL (03:16):
All right, frank.
So let's talk about.
You know your teaching career.
You know what.
What did you teach?
I mean band, of course, but youknow, was there anything like I
know for?
I mean band, of course, but youknow, was there anything like I
know for my high school?
We have band, we have orchestra.
We have other opportunities fordirectors as well.
So let's talk about classroomexperience in this case.
(03:37):
And then what are some thingsthat you learn as a teacher?
Dr. Frank Buck (03:42):
Well, I was lucky enough to be in a
situation where my full day wasbanned I mean had a Cadillac
schedule and I feel veryfortunate to have started in the
situation that I did.
As I look back, I think evenback then and we're talking,
1982 is when I started beingorganized was so much of it.
(04:07):
Yeah, you need to be a goodmusician, that sort of thing.
But let's face it, people don'tget fired from their band jobs
because the clarinets didn'tquite play so well in tune at
state contests.
You get fired because youforgot to order the buses and
it's time to go to statecontests and we're all standing
(04:28):
on the corner waiting for thebus and the bus isn't there
because the bus had never beenrequisitioned to start with.
So those are the kinds ofthings that get you in trouble.
And those were the kinds ofthings where I was really strong
.
And of course you know you'realso wanting to get along with
the other faculty members.
Well, if you turn your grades inlate and the homeroom teacher
(04:51):
can't put them on the reportcard, we're talking back in the
days when everything was penciland paper.
You know, if you're doing thatkind of stuff, you're not
endearing yourself to yourcolleagues.
So when you're handling yourresponsibilities, especially
where they impact somebody else,things just go a whole lot
(05:12):
smoother and, you know, gainingthe reputation that look, this
new band director we got.
Yeah, he's young, but he's gothis act together.
You're not going to have tostay behind him and remind him
to do this or that.
Once you say something to him,once he's got it, he pulls that
little memo pad out of hispocket, he jots it down and it's
like a steel trap and so peoplebegin to have confidence in you
(05:35):
.
And, looking back, that wassuch a big thing for me.
Principal JL (05:41):
Yeah, I mean I agree with you.
As a principal, you know havingan organized director and you
know choir and band and thoseare huge because there's a lot
of moving pieces and they're notjust working on the academic
side but they're working on theextracurricular side as well.
So they got a lot of thingsgoing on and you had to learn
(06:04):
early how to manage those typeof things.
Let's talk about getting intobecoming a school administrator,
educational leader, a principal.
You know what led you to pursuethat role.
Dr. Frank Buck (06:18):
If you had asked me my first year as a band
director, fourth year as a banddirector or eighth year as a
band director hey, you thinkyou'd ever like to be the
principal?
I would have told youabsolutely not.
I do not want that headache.
You give me my band program andyou get out of the way, because
I can control what happens inthose four walls and I know how
(06:43):
to teach kids.
That's what I want to do for 30years.
Year number nine we got a newprincipal at our middle school,
henry Clark, and what I saw,what one person could do in a
situation where we already had avery high performing middle
school.
When I saw what one personcould do to take the culture of
(07:07):
that school and move it forwardand just to get everything
running on all cylinders, Ibegan to rethink that.
And so he was the inspiration.
So I started taking the how tobe a principal courses.
Dr Clark kind of took me underhis wing and did my
administrative internship withhim.
He gave me responsibilitieslike cheerleader tryouts.
(07:33):
Oh boy, did I learn a lot there.
And then eventually he was abig one.
That helped me get that firstadministrative job and I think
you probably hear that from alot of other people.
There was that one person whereyou said, look, maybe I could
do that and impact more peoplethan what I was impacting there
(07:57):
in the band room.
And I never regretted it.
I loved every day as aprincipal.
Principal JL (08:02):
You bet, yeah, I mean you're kind of hitting on
things that you know I'm shakingmy head too, cause I'm like,
yep, that that's kind of how Ilooked at it too.
I mean, I taught in theclassroom for 11 years.
I was a math teacher, peteacher, I coached, you know, um
, you know several different uh,sports.
So you know, for me to stepaway from what I really, I
(08:24):
really enjoyed what I was doing,but it all came down to impact.
I can have a bigger impact andfor me, it was my wife's grandpa
that kind of said hey, you'remeant to do more.
You really need to.
You know, think about being aprincipal because you do such a
good job in this role.
A principal because you do sucha good job in this role you
(08:48):
would even do even you know goodthings in this role as well.
So I hear you on that.
When becoming a principal,being able to have the impact
yes, you get some headaches, butthat comes with the job.
But at the same time, beingable to impact not just students
but teachers and community is ahuge deal when you're a
principal.
So let's talk about yourprincipalship.
(09:09):
What are some things that youlearned through that process and
you know about the leadershiprole, the people, any systems
that you may have used in thattime.
Dr. Frank Buck (09:22):
Yeah, you know, through my experiences with Dr
Clark, to me the biggest thingwas hire good people and support
them.
You know, let them do theirjobs.
When people from the outsidelooked at that middle school and
the way Dr Clark did things,you kind of had the impression
(09:43):
that wow, wow, he has his thumbon everything because everything
was so smooth.
But when you were on the inside, you know where you were
sitting down with him,one-on-one.
It's amazing the flexibilitythat you had.
I mean his.
His philosophy was frank whenit comes to band, you're the
(10:03):
expert.
If I came to him with an ideaband, you're the expert.
If I came to him with an ideaFrank, you're the expert.
What do you think he expectedyou to have thought it through.
He didn't want to do the jobfor you, but if you came to him
and you had a good idea and youthought it through, he'd support
you on it.
He'd say go ahead.
If you need me for something,you let me know, but you go
ahead.
(10:23):
And to me that's the thing thatseparated the best ones that I
had from some of the others.
So I tried to take thatphilosophy with me.
I was lucky enough as anelementary school principal to
be in a building where thefaculty it was a more mature
faculty.
(10:43):
It was a place people wanted tocome and stay and it continued
that way.
Yeah, nobody ever left.
So in the summer the hiringprocess was like, sometimes
nobody, you know, nobody can.
So you know, hiring good people, letting them do their jobs.
(11:03):
And then the thing that I wasreally good at was, you know,
like as a band director, beingorganized, putting systems in
place and then doing the samething as an administrator.
What paperwork can we take offof teachers?
What procedures can westreamline?
What can we do that is notcentral to teaching students
(11:26):
that teachers are doing and takethat off of them?
So it was just, you know, onething after another and you know
and teachers really appreciatethat you know just putting those
systems in place.
Principal JL (11:39):
Yeah, I mean you're saying a lot of things
there that you know a lot ofpeople out there you know if
you're not trying to, if you'renot supporting your teachers,
you need to Because in order tobuild that retention, even in
the climate of today, they gotto know that you have their back
(12:00):
.
And, just like you said, youknow the teachers, like at the
high school level, they'recontent driven, so they're the
content experts.
And I taught math, I taught PE,so I have that in my background
.
But when it comes to otherthings like you know band, when
it comes to science, when itcomes to English, when it comes
to you know other, you knowcontent areas I have to rely and
(12:24):
, you know, support my teachersthat are in those content areas,
because I'm not going to beable to solve all their problems
because they're the expert I'mnot, but I can support them, I
can help them along and maybehelp them streamline some things
that they're thinking about tomake it a better system or a
better process that they'reworking through, and I think
(12:45):
having systems in place andstreamlining things and trying
to take things off a teacher'splates is huge.
One thing that I did just thispast semester is.
We piloted an AI product calledMagic School AI, which has
helped teachers differentiateinstruction, but also it's
reduced some of their planningtime so they can focus on the
(13:07):
engagement and the teaching ofthe content.
And I have to spend so muchenergy, you know.
You know thinking of all thesedifferent ideas and you know
they even more experiencedteachers were loving it because
they're like, hey, there's ideasI'd never even thought of and I
taught for 30 years, so youknow, being able to find
different ways to do that ishuge as an administrator, as a
(13:30):
principal, in this role, so I'mreally glad that you hit on that
.
But there was a time you wentfrom principal into the district
leadership role.
Could you talk about what thatrole was and what inspired you
or motivated you to make thattransition?
Dr. Frank Buck (13:51):
Well, I had been at the same elementary school
for nine years, was actually ata point where I could have
retired, thought about retiringand going to another state and
draw the retirement and crankingit up as a principal.
But a job came open at thecentral office, or actually
(14:12):
rather, was created at thecentral office.
It'd been vacant, where ourcurriculum coordinator had left
five years before and instead offilling the position, they just
said Frank, why don't you justkind of do elementary curriculum
plus run your school?
So a curriculum position wascreated and I applied for it,
(14:35):
got it.
They also gave me specialeducation because okay, because,
after all, special education,that won't take much time,
you'll do a great job, frank.
And professional development.
And it turned out if it wasn'tfederal programs or feeding the
kids, it was me.
It was a small central officebut again, you know, I was the
(14:56):
guy that could wear lots of hatsand keep lots of balls in the
air.
So I think I was kind of theperfect person for it.
And again, I'm supportingprincipals trying to use
technology to reduce paperworknow on the entire school system
rather than, you know, than justmy school.
(15:17):
And it was.
It was enjoyable, I'd say notas enjoyable as the
principalship.
So so for the principal who'sthinking about, hey, do I want
to go to the central office?
Think twice, think twice.
You'll miss the kids, you'llmiss the teachers.
I know, as a principal, some ofthe most down days were those
(15:39):
meetings at the central office.
The central office it was likelet me get out of this meeting
and go back to my school and runmy school and just walk up and
down the hall and see what'sgoing on in classrooms and
forget some of this junk that wejust went over in the
principal's meeting.
Principal JL (15:54):
Yeah, no, I mean I kind of hear you on that.
You know I've been blessed.
My superintendent doesn'trequire us to be at a ton of
district level meetings.
We have them.
I mean they're there when weneed them, but at the same time
they know for us our best spotis in our buildings, with our
kids, with our staff, every day,and if we need to go do some
(16:15):
things, we go do them, but thenwe're right back to doing the
things that we're designed to doand I think everybody's got a
reason and a way to transition.
But for you, you actually gotto kind of do some of the
principalship stuff and thedistrict office stuff, and so
that's kind of a uniquechallenge, and so let's talk
(16:35):
about that.
What are some things that werechallenges when you're in that
role, when you're looking attrying to support leaders in
schools but also trying to runyour school at the same time?
Dr. Frank Buck (16:48):
Well, of course, you know, every principal has
some ideas for how they want torun their school.
So sometimes balancing, youknow, this is what they really
need to do with.
Maybe that's not what they'recomfortable with.
For example, you have, someprincipals are more comfortable
with technology than others.
(17:09):
So whereas one principal wouldsay, you know, I say, well, you
know, there's several ways thatyou could do this.
And that principal would lookat me and say, well, how did you
do it?
How do you do it Because it'sworking for you?
Tell me what you're doing.
I want to do the same thing.
And then there would be, youknow, another principal that was
like no, I've been doing this along time, Just sort of leave
(17:31):
me alone.
You know, that's one of thethings about the central office
your influence is broader butthe power is less.
You can suggest things, you canpresent things, but the
ultimate decision maker in somany cases is the principal in
(17:52):
that school, which I think isthe way it should be, because we
do hold the principalaccountable for so many things.
So I think so much of the finalword needs to be there with the
principal.
Again, it goes back to the samethe support, you know the
support for teachers if you're aprincipal, the support for
principals if you're in thecentral office.
Principal JL (18:14):
Yeah, I mean you keep coming back to supporting.
How are you supporting yourteachers?
How are you supporting theschool principals and using
those experiences?
And I know for me, like, yeah,I can draw on my experiences,
but at the same time, it's notabout how I would do it.
It might be how can I help youdo it to the best of your
(18:35):
ability?
And those are things that I'vedone as a principal or school
leader in my time to help myteachers and help my students,
and basically that goes back tohey, you're the content expert,
what do you think?
You know, I'll come with anidea and you're like going
(19:15):
no-transcript.
I'm empowered by this becauseI'm taking ownership in it, so I
think that's really great.
Dr. Frank Buck (19:24):
Yeah, and Jeff, one thing I want to interject.
So many people talk about thekids.
Think about the kids.
We're all about the kids andabsolutely yes.
Kids, the kids, think about thekids.
We're all about the kids andabsolutely yes, kids come and go
through the years.
But good teachers come and stayIf you treat them right.
And good principals come andstay.
(19:45):
And if I'm, if I'm a principal,the best thing I can do for the
kids in my school is put agreat teacher in that classroom
and then ditto, when you're inthe central office.
How do you get the very bestteachers?
You can attract them to yourschools and your school system
and then put some, put thethings in place that cause them
(20:06):
to want to stay there.
Principal JL (20:08):
Yeah, and I think that's huge, even like even in
the times we're living today,where you know you have teacher
shortage, administrator shortage, I mean.
I mean it's it's.
It's a very tough time and I'vebeen lucky that I only had two
staff members this year not comeback, one to retirement one.
(20:29):
I'm running a building of about84 certified certificated staff
, 130 total staff, and so justto have two turnovers and then I
filled all my vacancies.
I'm like oh and yes, I'm like,you know, that's like got me
pumped up, right.
So you're right on creating aplace that people want to come
(20:51):
and stay and be a part ofsomething that's bigger than
themselves, and it's somethingthat I believe and something
you're kind of hitting on there.
So you're hitting everythingright on that one there.
Let's talk about you know,somewhere along the way you
decided I'm going to become anauthor, all right, and let's
talk about you know.
(21:12):
It looks like you have a fewbooks.
Get Organized Time Managementfor School Leaders you have two
editions of that and then GetOrganized Digitally the
Educator's Guide to TimeManagement.
So let's talk about whatinspired you to write these
books and what was it that yousaid?
(21:32):
You know what.
This is something that othersmay need, and kind of talk about
that.
Dr. Frank Buck (21:38):
Well, kind of that story began when I was
working on my doctorate.
Between the band director timeand the principal time was four
years as a middle schoolassistant principal, and so
during that time I got mydoctorate.
During the time that I was amiddle school assistant
principal we got thedissertation.
(21:59):
So from what everybody haslistened to so far, it's like
yeah, well, frank's theorganized guy here.
So no surprise that I decidedto do my doctoral dissertation
on time management.
It was a study of the timemanagement practices of Alabama
principals, and so one of thethings that I ran across was you
(22:19):
know, there's so much that'swritten about time management
for the business world, butespecially at that time there
was very little written directlyaimed at educators, and so you
know you could read businessbooks and gain some ideas from
that.
So I thought, well, let's gothe other way, let's write our
(22:39):
stuff for educators, and ifdoctors and lawyers and other
people want to look over ourshoulder and steal our ideas,
hey that's fine.
So did the dissertation andduring that time also put
together a little workshop forteachers and administrators
based on the things that I wasdoing and the things that I was
learning, and that started togrow and grow and grow.
(23:01):
So I walk in my office one dayand there's this email.
It's an email from Bob Sickles,at that time the president of a
company called Eye on Education, and what he said was Frank, I
read a review that you did onone of our books, so your name
(23:22):
was, kind of you know, front ofmind with me.
And then I read this articlethat you wrote for Principal
Magazine and I said to myself,wow, that's the same name I just
saw on this review.
I googled, you found your blog.
See, I've been blogging forabout a year.
And he says have you everthought about writing a book?
(23:43):
And if you have, I'd love towork with you.
Now, probably all of us at onetime or another have said you
know, I'd love to write a bookwhen the time is right.
Well, the time doesn't get anymore right than the president of
a publishing company emailingyou saying, hey, I want to work
(24:05):
with you.
So basically took the workshop,put it together in the form of
a book and six months later itwas ready to go to press.
And about six months later,because you got to pick the
cover and all kind of littlethings that have to happen.
So another six months and itwas out.
Get organized Time managementfor school leaders, first
(24:26):
edition.
So when people say, hey, frank,how do you contact publishers
and pitch to publishers, I'mlike I have no idea.
I was the lucky one that justchecked his email and they want
to work with me.
But loved the process thatfirst book did very well, opened
(24:49):
up a lot of doors, speakingengagements and national
conventions and especially,being a practicing principal at
that time and a practicingcentral office administrator,
national conferences were likecome on, come on.
Now, once you retire and youbecome well, this is Frank Butt,
(25:09):
president of Frank ButtConsulting Incorporated.
They're not, as you know,they're really looking at those
practicing administrators.
So word to the wise out therefor anybody thinking about you
know, the side hustle sort ofthing Start it while you're
actually in your job, whereyou're walking the walk, not
just talking the talk.
Principal JL (25:35):
Yeah, I mean that's really great advice there
, frank, and you know, like forme, I want to just help other
principals and other schooladministrators out there.
That's why I started my podcast.
Yes, I'm still a practicingprincipal and I plan on being
that for a while.
I still got 12 years beforeretirement, so I got some time
here.
So you know, I'm 18 years in, Igot 12 more and then we'll see
(25:55):
how things go.
But yeah, I mean that's reallygreat advice that you could give
other people that may look towant to have something like that
in the future.
So let's talk about just yourbooks in general.
What were the goals of the book?
How do they help people?
What are some big takeawayspeople can get from reading your
(26:17):
books?
Dr. Frank Buck (26:20):
Well, the two that are out there right now.
The second edition of GetOrganized Time Management for
School Leaders is written withthis idea in mind that if
someone picked up that book 50years from now, it would still
be relevant.
It talks about practices,principles of organization and
(26:45):
time management definitely moreon the digital side of things,
but you won't see the word Applein it.
You won't see the word Apple init, you won't see the word
Google, you won't see the wordMicrosoft in there, because
technology changes a good bit.
But what I talk about in thereare things that you could do,
regardless of what the tools are.
(27:07):
Get Organized digitally took theopposite approach.
My publisher actually came backto me in 2020, and we all
remember 2020, don't we?
Yeah, we do so.
Covid schools are out.
If it wasn't for technology, wewouldn't have had school
(27:30):
anywhere.
So now, what had been nice youknow, being fluent in technology
those things that had been nicewere now crucial.
And they came back to me andsaid, would you do another book
and just approach it from thedigital side?
So I said yep, and I'll tellyou what I'm going to do.
(27:51):
Instead of the generalprinciples that are going to be
relevant 50 years from now.
I'm going to talk about thespecific tools that I'm using
today.
And if six months from now, oneof them goes belly up, hey it
happens, we'll publish somethingthat'll kind of keep people up
to date.
(28:11):
And so we wrote get organizeddigitally.
So if you want to know, well,frank, what is the digital task
manager you use Bam.
It's there.
Exactly how I use it, how doyou keep your digital notes?
It's there.
Best email practices, it's allthere.
And then I've got a blog postthat kind of has said OK, here's
what's changed since the bookwas published.
(28:33):
And you know, between buyingthe book, reading the blog post,
you know you're right up todate.
So it was a very different book, but one I'm very glad I did,
because it does get so specificin terms of here's exactly what
I do on a daily basis and theseare the tools that I use to do
(28:54):
it with, and most of them arefree.
Principal JL (28:56):
Yeah, so what are some big changes that you have
seen since you wrote the GetDigitally Organized?
Dr. Frank Buck (29:03):
Gosh.
Okay, the big changes?
Well, of course, it's littlethings like Evernote has done a
lot of things much better.
Now they have really, reallyexpanded the things that they do
, but they cut their free planback.
So whereas I was saying, heyguys, you know this is what you
(29:25):
can do for free, well, you can'tdo quite so much of that for
free now, but there's a lot ofother things that you're able to
do.
But I'll tell you what we'll do.
Maybe we can put the link tothat blog post in the show notes
.
As soon as we get throughrecording this, I'm going to go.
I should have talked about thisand this and this, because
those are the biggest freechanges.
Principal JL (29:47):
Yeah, frank, that's what we'll do.
Well, we'll go ahead.
We'll take a link to that blogif people are interested.
We'll do.
Well, we'll go ahead.
We'll take a link to that blog.
If people are interested, we'llput it in the show notes so
people can can read about it.
I was just curious because Iknow you've done your work on
writing a book and I know you'retrying to update people on that
and so you know how is kind ofai change things when it comes
to getting people organized andbeing a platform people could
(30:10):
use in that digital space.
Dr. Frank Buck (30:13):
Yeah, there are a lot of possibilities out there
for people.
One is sort of using it as aGoogle enhancement.
You know, we come to you, put acouple of keywords into a
Google search and then here area bunch of sites that you could
go to and hopefully one of thoseis going to answer your
(30:34):
question.
Now you just talk to ChatGPT oryou talk to Claude, just like
you talk to another person, andinstead of giving you a list of
sources, it just tells you yourstuff.
You know how do you fixwhatever it may be?
Think about Facebook groupswhere somebody says gosh, I'm
(30:56):
going to be interviewing for ajob as a principal.
Can somebody give me somesample questions I need to be
ready to answer?
Well, don't ask a whole bunchof different principals for that
.
Type it in chat, gpt, just likethat.
I'm going to be interviewingfor a job and get specific as a
(31:16):
middle school principal in arural community, I'm going to be
replacing a principal who hasbeen in that school for 20 years
and describe a little bit aboutthe community.
What are some questions Ishould be prepared to answer?
Bam, and there it is for you.
(31:37):
It's, you know, uh, in in my ownwork.
Now, you know I'm, each week Ido a blog post.
It's also a youtube video and Irepurpose it as a newspaper
column.
Well, to write, to write thetext, I just grab my phone and
I'm dictating into my phone.
So I need to kind of clean thatup for a blog post.
(32:00):
I can take the text, throw itin, claude, and say please
correct the grammar errors ofyou know, kind of fashioned it
into a blog post, putappropriate subheadings, please
suggest five titles that will beintriguing for people.
Oh, and give me a keyword thatwill be SEO friendly for the
(32:25):
blog and give me a metadescription that contains my
keyword.
And while you're at it, couldyou refashion the blog post into
a newspaper column, so forth?
And I need about five tweetsand put some hashtags and emojis
in there.
So it's still it's me composingthe ideas in the content, but
(32:46):
instead of spending all the timewith okay, now I got to revise
it for the newspaper and I needto make it about 600 word, ai is
doing that for me and all thelittle times where you know
you've written an email, but itsure would be nice to have
somebody else read it and sayit's coming off a little harsh
(33:09):
Throw that sucker into chat, gptor into cloud and watch it say
this statement might be a littleoffensive to people.
Why don't you say this instead?
So it's like having that otherperson beside you, that really
smart person that's calling onthe world's knowledge and going
(33:29):
to give it to you free.
Principal JL (33:31):
Yeah, I mean you kind of hit a lot of ways that
you're talking about using it.
I use it as well.
So if I'm putting out an email,I'll have it.
Help me clean up my email.
It's still my words.
I'm having it presented in away that I need it to be
presented.
Tone, especially when you'resending out like parent emails
right, you want to make sure thetone is right.
(33:52):
You're getting the point across, but you're seeing what needs
to be said, but in a way thatthey can accept it and not get
offended by it or get all up inarms about the email that you
put out.
I prefer to just have phoneconversations when I can, but
there's times when you need tohave emails and having something
to help you not develop it, butto help you just streamline it
(34:17):
or make it just better than youwould have out of your own head
sometimes.
So I kind of utilize it in alot of different ways that
you've talked about it as well.
So let's talk about you knowsome strategies people can can
use.
Are there favorite strategies?
You have to help people getorganized.
Dr. Frank Buck (34:38):
Well, this is the kind of question that I
guess asked a lot.
You know, where would you startwith someone?
Well, you know, if you'd askedme that question in 1982, I
would say get yourself a memopad, stick it in your pocket
Every time something comes yourway that you need to remember.
You have something to put onthe calendar, something that
(34:59):
needs to be done, an idea thatyou want to be with, something
to put on the calendar,something that needs to be done,
an idea that you want to bewith.
Pull that thing out, write itdown, and when you stick that
memo pad back in your pocket,you've earned the right to
forget about it.
See, for me, forgetting is agood thing.
I don't want to have to keepall this stuff in my head and so
, luckily, that was somethingthat I've been doing my whole
(35:20):
teaching career and one of thethings that helped me be so
organized.
So, 1982, put the memo pad inyour pocket.
So now it's 2025.
Pull the phone out of yourpocket, hit one little widget on
the home screen and speakwhatever it was that you have
written in.
You know, call Bob about theXYZ project, get milk at the
(35:45):
grocery store.
Put the phone back in yourpocket.
It does the remembering, and soyou just give everything a date
.
So it's just like a, you know,just like a paper planner.
Really.
Everything has a date, and soI'm never getting up in the
morning going, okay, what do Ineed to do today?
You know, let me take a blankpiece of paper, make a list.
No, that stuff is already thereand it's coming back to me on
(36:09):
the days that I want it.
So, first of all, just having agood digital task manager I use
Remember the Milk, and even thefree version is amazing.
You know, like, think about allthe repeating tasks that you
have as a principal, all of thethings that you're going to be
doing the month before schoolstarts and you were doing those
(36:32):
same things last year a monthbefore the school starts.
And so once you've got those,you know, you just throw it in
there and go gosh, I'm going tobe doing that same thing a year
from now.
Make it a repeating task, orI've got to do this every month.
Put it in there once, tell itwhen to repeat, and these things
just keep coming back to youexactly when you need to do it,
(36:55):
because I think you know thehard part about our jobs is not
so much that the individualthings are hard.
What's hard is keeping up withthem all.
Let's use technology to do thekeeping up with them all.
Make life a little bit easierfor all of us.
Principal JL (37:10):
You bet.
I mean, I think that's kind ofwhere we're at right.
We want to be able to utilizetechnology to help us be more
productive, and I like how youtalked about getting things
written down.
I know just the way the brainworks.
If you could take what you'rethinking about and write it down
somewhere if it's on a scratchpaper, if it's on in your phone
(37:33):
just being able to have itwritten down then it allows your
brain to go.
Okay, I know where it's at, I'llget to that when I need to, but
it allows you to basicallyallows your brain to free up so
you can manage other tasks thatare coming at you.
So I really you know, no matterkind of how long you've been in
this or where you're at in yourjourney getting things written
(37:57):
down or organized in a way towhere you don't forget it is
huge because it does take a loadoff you mentally because you
got a lot of things coming atyou and sometimes you feel like
you're drinking through a firehose some days when you're a
principal.
So you know it's good to havesome sort of program or
(38:17):
technology that can help youstay organized in those things,
and so I really appreciate thatkind of advice that other
administrators can take andutilize, and it's something you
can do now.
It's something you can do today.
You know something prettysimple as that can actually help
you out tremendously.
Dr. Frank Buck (38:38):
So yeah, and it is so teachable.
One experience when I firstbecame a principal and so this
was 1997.
So at that time I mean I didn'thave the phone.
Back then I had my paperplanner and it was my signature
tool.
If you saw me, you saw thatlittle book.
(39:01):
So kind of the buzz with thefaculty is what is he writing
that little book?
Dr Buck, he's always got thatlittle book and they started to
see real quickly that whatevergot written down in that book
happened, it got done.
So they were really intriguedby the little book.
So one of those professionaldevelopment days when we had to
(39:23):
come up with something I justsaid we're going to talk about
the little book this morning andso I showed them exactly how I
used it to keep up witheverything and to keep up with
phone calls and notes fromone-on-one conferences, for how
I could get back to it easilyUsed a day timer at that time
(39:45):
and the day timer corporationactually sent me little samples
where everybody could try itfree for a month and then most
of the faculty.
They wound up like this is lifechanging and they wound up
subscribing to day timer for awhile.
Because it is so teachabledescribing the day timer for a
(40:06):
while.
Cause it, it it is.
It is so teachable and itreally makes life so much easier
when you're not keeping up withall these little things in your
head and then beating yourselfup about how dumb you are
because you forgot this littlething.
Principal JL (40:19):
No, no, I mean that's awesome.
I mean I would say people, ifyou're not doing those things,
start, because it will help youtremendously when it comes to
trying to stay organized andkeeping things that you need to
get done on time and on task andthings like that.
I know what you're talkingabout.
There's times I'll forgetsomething and I'll feel like, oh
geez, you know, I feel stupidbecause that and you're not,
(40:45):
it's just you have so much goingon and it does help you to stay
organized.
So, Frank, what are some thingsthat you are working on today
in your educational consultantrole?
Dr. Frank Buck (40:59):
Well, I've got two courses out there right now
that are independent bookstudies aimed at Alabama school
principals because, part ofrenew, each one is eligible to
be a professional learning unit.
So I've got those out there andso I'm constantly working on
(41:28):
those, improving those.
I would love to expand that tosome other states as well.
Speaking engagements you know,since 2020, we all learned how
to how to use Zoom.
You know, since 2020, we alllearned how to use Zoom.
So it's really opened upopportunities for professional
(41:52):
development where I can be hereinstead of getting on an
airplane to go somewhere else.
So providing professionaldevelopment to other people has
gotten so much more affordableand I love to do that sort of
stuff doing some one onon-onecoaching and just having a good
time helping other people findan easier way to work and play.
Principal JL (42:09):
Frank, let's talk about aspiring leaders.
Do you have any advice forpeople that are looking to get
into the educational leadershiprole, and what advice would you
give them?
Dr. Frank Buck (42:22):
First of all, have a mentor.
You know I mentioned Dr Clarkand then also my very first
principal, harry Anderson, whotaught me how you go about
supporting teachers, becauseanybody in that building would
tell you that that man had yourback.
That was one of those places.
(42:42):
People wanted to come and theywanted to stay because they knew
they had a friend in theprincipal's office.
He told me the first day I cameto work.
He says Mr Buck, my first jobas principal of this school is
to help you with the disciplinein your classroom so that
learning can take place.
Wow, and he meant it.
(43:06):
He was as good as his word.
And, yeah, he helped establishan environment where learning
happened, because people were intheir seat, listening with
their materials, so forth and soon.
So definitely have a mentor.
There's so much to learnwithout trying to learn it
(43:28):
yourself and make the mistakesyourself.
Learn from other people.
Let them tell you about themistakes they made and the
better way to do it, so youdon't have to go and make those
same mistakes again.
And you know, and as I look atpeople who were successful and
you start to talk to them, theystart to talk about the mentors
(43:49):
that they had.
That helped them when they gotstarted.
And they tell you about you.
Know, gosh, I applied, like DrClark.
He said I applied for ninedifferent administrative
positions before I ever got one.
And he said and Frank, your dayis going to come and when it
does, you're going to be gladyou didn't get some of these
(44:13):
other jobs that you applied for.
And he was absolutely right.
So have a mentor, go out thereand apply for those jobs.
You know, if you want to getinto school leadership, don't
wait until the time is right.
You're not going to get thefirst job, but you want people
(44:33):
to move from thinking, oh, frankBuck has applied for a
principalship, you wanted tomove from that to.
I wonder if Frank's going toapply for this next
principalship to.
You think Frank's going to getthis next one.
People are thinking of you asthat teacher who's successful
(44:55):
and you want them to startthinking about you in a
different light.
And then the next thing, youknow you're the one who gets
that job.
And then, once you get thefirst administrative job, then
it's easy to go from there.
So go ahead and put in theapplication early and you're
getting to know people, you'regetting experience with
(45:17):
interviews, and then that'sgoing to happen for you
interviews and then you knowthat's going to happen for you.
Principal JL (45:25):
Yeah, frank, you said something in there that I
think it's really important tobring out.
You will learn something as yougo through the process, when
you want to, when you're lookingfor that administrative
position, and so every interviewis going to be valuable.
Every contact and connectionyou get is going to be a lead to
the next thing.
If you don't get that positionand that's kind of what happened
(45:48):
with me my first principalshipwas because I interviewed for a
principalship that I didn't get,but I impressed the
superintendent in that one thatwas leaving for another
superintendency that had anopening for a principalship and
asked us to apply for that.
And through that process is howI got my first principalship.
And then, when I wanted to stepout of the small rural school
(46:12):
and go into a more of a biggersuburban or urban size school,
you know the connections that Ihave from being and being a
principal helped me with gettingthat job as well, and so those
connections that you make andthe things that you learn
through those processes arereally important.
(46:32):
And I agree having a coach,because even today people are
getting into these seats withvery little experience Now
you'll have a lot of experiencewhen you get into principalship.
But I'm talking about they maynot have been in education very
long when I'm talking about theymay be in your one, two, maybe
three years and now you're beingasked to lead a school.
(46:52):
Having somebody to guide youthrough that is very key,
because when you have somebodyto bounce ideas off of, it's
going to be very valuable,because you may be a principal
in a small rural school and youmay not have another
administrator.
You may have yoursuperintendent bounce ideas off
of them.
You may have an elementaryprincipal to bounce ideas, but
(47:15):
to have people from outside ofthat network is huge when you're
becoming a new principal andyou want to do this job well.
And I think learning from otherpeople is another huge key,
because that's how I learn.
I don't make some mistakesbecause I learn from other
people that made those mistakesand so I know what to stay away
(47:36):
from.
And so I think that's veryvaluable as a principal that you
need to learn from other peopleand take their lessons and try
not to repeat them, becausethere's a reason why it didn't
work the first time, so try notto do you know, don't want to
beat your head against the wall.
Don't do something that youknow is not going to work, and
(47:57):
be there to support your staffand support your kids is super
important as well.
So, frank, we've talked about alot of different things today.
I really appreciate you beingon the show.
Is there anything that youwould like to leave our
listeners, and how could theyconnect with you if they want to
learn more?
Dr. Frank Buck (48:16):
Absolutely.
Thanks, jeff.
Come over to my website.
It's just my name,frankbuckuckorg.
First thing, when you get there, you'll see a little spot where
you can join my email list.
You're going to get two freegifts you're going to want.
One is what's basically thefirst chapter of my book get
(48:36):
organized, going to show you howto get your desk clean, get the
paper going in the right place,and then, several days later,
you get an ebook on how to setup and you use, get the paper
going in the right place, andthen, several days later, you
get an e-book on how to set upand use Remember the Milk the
way I have mine.
They go very detailed and thenyou know once a week.
From there, you get a littlee-mail from me every Tuesday at
11 am Central Time.
(48:56):
That just gives you tips, givesyou ideas, kind of keeps you up
to date with what I'm doing.
Just gives you tips, gives youideas, kind of keeps you up to
date with what I'm doing, what'snew on my website, what's new
in my blog, so forth, so on.
So, frankbuckorg, join the emaillist.
Hey, binge out on the blog post.
There are plenty of them there,and you know, just enjoy, just
(49:19):
enjoy.
You know, jeff, this has beensuch a pleasure and I hope that
the audience gets a lot out ofthis.
Principal JL (49:26):
I really got a lot out of this.
I learned a lot from you todayand that's what makes doing
these podcasts so much fun is Iget to learn from other people
that have been there done that,and then I get to share that out
with the audience so they canlearn from people like you that
are doing the work and helpingadministrators become the best
they can be.
But, frank, before we go withyou, being from Alabama, is it
(49:51):
Roll Tide?
Dr. Frank Buck (49:52):
or is it War Eagle?
For me it's definitely RollTide Grew up near Tuscaloosa.
I still remember the bear.
Principal JL (49:59):
There you go, there you go, there you go.
So don't don't take it out on,frank, if you're a war Eagles,
because I have a lot of peopleout there that are both either
Auburn or Alabama fans.
So you know, I just wanted toknow.
It's like stuck in my head, Ihad to know that.
So you're a roll tide guy,which you know.
I'm a Nebraska corn, nebraskaCornhusker guys.
(50:24):
So here we go.
You know, frank, it was greatto have you on the show today.
I appreciate everything thatyou shared and all your links
and things will be in the shownotes for people to make it
really easy for them to click on.
So I really appreciate youbeing here today and thank you.
Wow, what a conversation with DrFrank Buck.
His expertise and practicalstrategies to help us get
organized, manage our time andlead with greater intention.
(50:46):
Whether it's using digitaltools more effectively or
developing simple systems thatstick, dr Buck reminds us that
productivity isn't about doingmore.
It's about doing what mattersmost.
If today's conversationresonates with you, I encourage
you to check out his books GetOrganized and Get Organized
(51:07):
Digitally.
Visit frankbuckdogorg for moreresources, such as his blog and
tools to support your leadershipjourney.
You can find these resources inthe show notes.
Until next time, be 1% better.
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