What does it take to transform a struggling school? Josh Tovar knows firsthand. Born in Juarez, Mexico, and growing up with learning disabilities and family challenges, Josh's journey from troubled teen to transformational principal offers powerful lessons for any educational leader.
Josh's personal story gives him authentic "street cred" with students facing similar struggles today. "I was a drunk in high school. I had no pathway," he shares candidly. This background allows him to connect with students in a way many educators cannot. After joining the Marines for structure and direction, Josh found his calling in education, though not by conventional means.
His leadership philosophy centers on a powerful principle: "connections before content." Josh explains that effective school leadership requires building genuine relationships while maintaining high expectations and consistent systems. Drawing from his military background, he implements clear structures that create safety and predictability, allowing learning to flourish.
The results speak for themselves. Josh transformed a 6A high school with persistent discipline problems and low achievement from a D-minus to a B-minus rating with distinctions in just three years. At his current school, Memorial Pathway Academy, he serves immigrant students and those at risk of dropping out – creating an environment with minimal discipline issues and high student engagement.
Perhaps most refreshing is Josh's honesty about the challenges of educational leadership. He discusses the political realities of being "blackballed" in a district, the mentors who championed his success despite obstacles, and the difficult balance between professional dedication and family responsibilities.
Whether you're a new administrator or a veteran principal, Josh's insights on creating systems, building relationships, and maintaining high expectations offer a blueprint for transformational leadership. Connect with him through the PGP Podcast or social media to continue learning from his journey.
Memorial Pathway Academy Garland, TX Link:
Email Principal Josh Tovar: ftovar@garlandisd.net
Follow Principal Josh Tovar on X: @MPA_GOJAGUARS
Follow Principal Josh Tovar on LinkedIn:
Teach Better Mid Roll Network Ad
Connect with Principal JL Click Here:
Want to be a guest on Educational Leadership with Principal JL?
Send Principal JL a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1742787866678447e5bdb89c1
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Principal JL (00:01):
I am very excited for today's guest, Josh Tovar.
He is a passionate educationalleader, proud US Marine veteran
and an advocate forstudent-centered leadership.
Born in Juarez, mexico, andraised in El Paso, texas, josh
brings over three decades ofexperience across 13 educational
institutions, from elementaryschools to the university level
(00:24):
institutions.
From elementary schools to theuniversity level.
He is currently serving as theprincipal at Memorial Pathway
Academy in Garland ISD in NorthDallas, Texas.
He is known for his unwaveringbelief in the power of
relationships and his guidedmantra connections before
content, a dynamic presence onsocial media and the host of the
(00:46):
PGP podcast.
Josh champions professionalgrowth and reminds us that
podcasts are free PD.
No excuses.
Now let's get to some free PDwith Josh Tovar.
All right, welcome back toanother episode of the
(01:11):
Leadership Podcast.
I am excited and I am thrilledto bring Josh Tovar in on the
show.
So, josh, welcome.
Josh Tovar (01:21):
Thank you very much.
My brother Appreciate youreaching out and connecting.
You know what we're going to dothis in a couple of weeks, so
check his show out and thencheck out the PGP podcast.
Hey, I'm a proud principal ofMemorial Pathway Academy in
Garland, ISD, Garland, usa,ready to rock and roll with this
young man whose journey I juststarted.
I think I'm on episode five ofyours, no 10 of yours, and you
(01:45):
know what I'm learning a lot TomOsborne.
Tom Osborne was also one of theguys that I'll appreciate, and
that's the whole point aboutlistening to podcasts.
It's free, pd, but mostimportantly, it reminds us as
leaders that we take knowledgefrom different people, different
parts of the country, andultimately make it a better
version of ourselves so that ourkids could prosper.
(02:06):
So thank you for having me hereon your show.
Principal JL (02:08):
You bet Josh, wow, that's probably the best
introduction of somebody comingin on the show.
So I appreciate the shout outsand the listening and the
engagement with the episodes,but you don't just listen to my
podcast.
Listen to other podcasts andwe'll get into that later on in
the show.
But, josh, I'm going to goahead and start you off with the
(02:29):
same question.
I start everybody off on thisshow what inspired you to become
an educator?
Josh Tovar (02:35):
My pathway was not, as we hear on, the traditional
way of being a little kidwanting to teach.
That was not at all.
I was a very dysfunctionalyouth.
I was not very scholarly, I wasa big-time loser.
I was a drunk in high school.
I had no pathway.
I was a child of divorce.
(02:57):
I was part of the statistics ofa low-income, minority male.
Child of divorce was notsupposed to make it, let alone
an immigrant.
I am Virginia and Jesus'American dream, and so we came
from another country andimmigrated to the United States.
But in the end you go throughthe trials and tribulations of
(03:18):
life and you know this.
In Nebraska, in Utah, in Miami,it doesn't matter where.
Kids go through the sameobstacles alcoholism,
self-medication, divorce andit's what we do at the
schoolhouse to ensure that weprovide the proper opportunities
.
But I didn't have it.
I'm back from the Mesozoic eraperiod in the 1980s, and they
(03:40):
didn't have SEL, they didn'thave computers.
We didn't have none of thatnonsense.
It was suck it up, buttercup,generation X, all in the house
here and ultimately it was oneof those things that I really
had no way Now.
Prior to this, my brother hadleft the house Again, child of
divorce, had no other way, gotin conflict with my dad and he
(04:03):
took off to the Marines.
And so, very long story short,a lot of dynamics that happen
obviously in families.
We know that you go throughthat.
In your chair, being theprincipal and as the assistant
principals, you hear all ofthese stories of kids.
And my brother took off and sawthe world, but he was not very
successful up to this day.
I just couldn't speak facts towhere he doesn't have a long
(04:24):
standing career.
And now he's getting close tothe 60 mark.
And my mom knew that I was aloser, knew all the issues that
I had, and so I decided, I tookit upon myself to not go down
the pathway of cocaine, heavierdrugs.
I was drinking maybe like fourdays a week.
I live on the border town of ElPaso and Juarez and all you
(04:49):
needed was five to ten dollarsto go get drink and drown.
So you would drink like nineo'clock in the morning, ten
o'clock, whatever it took you toget over there, you will get
drunk and then you come backright before the bell rang and
you will go home and it's one ofthose things.
I'm not proud of it, but youknow what?
Those were the facts of life.
And if you think that thosekids that don't go to your high
school in Nebraska or don't goto your high school in Utah, you
(05:12):
think they're going home justto watch Maury Povich, they're
not.
They're self-medicating,they're doing a lot of those
things like I did.
It's life.
And so my mom she left us.
My mom and the divorce said Idon't want custody of my kids.
So you know, there's a lot oftrauma there, you know, when you
(05:32):
find out these things down theroad.
And so I needed to go, and theydidn't care back then about
CCMR, they didn't care abouttotal number of credits, they
didn't care about none of thisstuff.
So they I graduated the bottomof my class barely with 0.5
credits over bottom two-thirds,and I needed to, you know,
sharpen my future, and the onlyway was to the marines.
(05:54):
You know that the marine corpshas a proud tradition of success
and I needed a quick kick inthe ass.
And so so, since I was 17, mymom said I'm not.
There's a whole purpose behindthe story, besides connecting
with your, besides connectingwith you, with your kids.
It's the same story in 2025 asit was in 1988.
(06:19):
And my mom says I'm not goingto sign your, your, your
paperwork unless you decide togo to school.
And so the Marine recruiter youknow recruiters, they just win
their quota.
And so he says, okay, you'restill a quota, go to the reserve
.
And so that's where my momagreed to, and I agreed to, go
to the University of Texas at ElPaso and go to boot camp, go to
Fort Sill, oklahoma, to fieldartillery school.
(06:40):
And from that point on I didn'tknow what I wanted.
Obviously, success breedssuccess, but I never had that.
I was a loser in high schoolAcademically.
I still have learningdisabilities.
So, hey, senior teacher orfreshman teacher in high school,
I have three master'scertifications and I still have
(07:01):
problems reading.
And I still have problemsreading that silence for you to
ponder what I just said.
He'll tell you that we haveprincipal meetings and they give
us articles to read in jigsawand then we're supposed to read
those articles, right, like forfive minutes.
I'm always the last one.
I still have a learningdisability.
(07:22):
You know it's hard for me toread, I still get distracted.
And so if you expect your kidto be successful, you're talking
to somebody that I feel is asuccessful principal and I still
have reading problems.
So don't say that the kidshould already know it by now
because they're a freshman orthey're a senior.
No, a learning problem is alearning problem, whether it be
(07:44):
self-imposed or you were justborn with it, just like my
glasses.
I was born with that disability, whatever, and I'm just using
that term as something that'snot equal, all right, not as a
crutch.
And I didn't know what I wantedto do.
And so my mom, what she woulddo was when we lived in Juarez,
my mom received a scholarshipfrom Lydia Patterson.
(08:06):
That's why I'm a Methodist,because Lydia Patterson
Institute gave her a Methodistorganization, gave her a
scholarship to go to UTEP.
There's a lot of connectionsthere, obviously and what she
would do is that she would takeus to the public library.
What she did?
She would go to jail nowadays,all right.
She would leave us hours in theEl Paso Public Library while
(08:27):
she went to school, which waslike around 25 minutes walking
distance, and we would staythere hours upon hours.
And what I always gravitated towere biographies by Ronald Sim.
I still remember it.
I loved Conquistadorbiographies and I would read
them and I would read them and Iwould love them.
I would sit there.
(08:48):
I knew I was in compliancebecause I didn't want my mom to
hit me with her chancla, and soI would stay quiet.
They would give me certificateswith little 515, little, and it
was a great experience.
And so she goes.
You like history, become agreat experience, and so she
goes.
You like history, Become ahistory teacher.
So that was, I think, aseven-minute journey on how I
(09:09):
became an educator.
I did not want to be aneducator, I disliked history.
I used to say this as a middleschool kid.
Why do I need to know history?
They're already dead.
Go figure, I have a master's inhistory and the whole thing is
I was never taught appropriately.
What do I mean by that?
I was never taught.
I was always taught by thatcoach.
(09:29):
It's still happening.
Look at me, it's stillhappening.
That coach just goes by hisfootball plays and not by
engaging the kids with abilityto make history alive.
And if you do it in such apassionate way, people will love
history.
(09:49):
And so you know, along the way,I found that passion, I found
that beauty of what history was,because then you start seeing
it in today's TV, literallytoday's television.
You start seeing the cycle ofhumanity and I was able to make
a connection with the content tomy kids.
(10:12):
I'm there so they learn.
I wasn't there for me to teach.
Let me repeat that again I'mthere for them to learn, not for
me to teach.
So it was my job to engage himand make dead dudes look cool,
and it's not easy, it's not easy.
And so I've always had thatlove for history and I could
(10:36):
tell you like right now, mysix-year-old he just learned
about George III, he justlearned about CJ Thomas
Jefferson writing thatlast-minute rough draft on July
the 3rd and he had to turn it infor his group work.
You see, if you connected withthem, then they're going to get
it and it's showing that passion, that love.
So that was my pathway intoeducation.
(10:58):
I didn't want to be an educator.
I never aspired to it.
My dad was a businessman so Ithought that was going to be my
business route.
But you know what God, life andmy pathway took me to this
beautiful profession, theprofession that creates all the
other professions education, youbet.
Principal JL (11:14):
Hey, man, that's a lot of just great insight and
background about you, josh, andthere's some similarities I was
kind of as you're telling yourstory.
I can relate to a lot of thatPeople.
I don't really talk about this,but I grew up poor.
Okay, I grew up on food stamps.
My mom was the only income.
(11:35):
My dad I'm sorry but he was alazy bum.
I'll put it out there he atleast was there, but he was
still a ghost father there.
He at least was there, but hewas still a ghost father is what
we call him there but notreally present.
Having people in your life tohelp you get to where you're at.
I joined the military just so Icould go to school.
That's why I joined themilitary.
So we kind of have thatconnection there having the
(11:58):
military.
I was in the reserves.
Actually, I have been to ElPaso.
I have been to el paso.
I've been to the white sandmissile range.
I did a lot of training downthere, so I know the area.
I you know so a lot of thosethings.
When you're talking aboutjuarez and el paso, I started
remembering, oh, white sandmissile range.
We went there about every year.
(12:19):
I've been deployed and you know, I was in the iraqi war of
freedom, so my militarybackground did help me with my
ability and education leadershiplater, and I became a math
teacher.
I was also a pd teacher.
You became a history teacher.
Those subjects are really toughto teach because you, like you
said, you have to bring it alive, you have to make it connect
(12:42):
with the kids.
So when you're in the classroomyou're teaching the kids
history.
What are some things that youlearned as a history teacher
that helped develop theirleadership skills?
Josh Tovar (12:54):
One thing is and I'm glad that you, and thank you
for sharing with me and with theaudience about your family, and
that's what brings us streetcred with kids, because they
need to connect that you were afood stamp kid.
They need to connect that I wasa drunk, you know what, but
that's not who we are now.
That's not what, but you knowwhat.
It's what made us becomesuccessful.
(13:15):
Air quotes what success is?
Because everyone hey, a plumber.
Right now, he's successful.
Let your toilet back up, baby,you're going to pay $100, baby,
hey, my lights go on.
Right now I'm going to callthat electrician and he's going
to charge me whatever the heckhe wants.
That's success.
And so for me, those storiesand the engagement ties all back
(13:40):
to who I was as a student.
So you see, I was a knucklehead, right, I was self-medicating.
I didn't care, I did enoughjust to get the D.
I did enough just to get the Din high school.
So I know that thought process,I know about being mediocre and
(14:05):
living for the minimum standard, and so what that taught me was
coming in as an educator wasdon't put up with nonsense.
They need tough love.
And I just recorded a videobecause I finally read all the
cards.
I started reading all the cardsmy kids wrote me for
Principal's Day, for May the 1st, and a lot of them are like
thank you for being tough.
Thank you for being tough.
It doesn't matter when, as longas you're structured and caring
(14:28):
.
Kids say they don't wantdiscipline, but they love
discipline, they yearn for it,they want it.
They dislike wishy-washy rollercoaster educators and
administrators.
They want you to be consistentwith who you are as an
individual, and that gives youstreet cred.
And I learned one thing You'renot going to mess with me.
You're going to show up on time.
(14:50):
You're going to do what youneed to do.
This is what is expected fromyou and this is what I require.
And I will keep on giving it toyou.
And keep on giving it to youbecause there's certain things
that I'm not good at.
I'm not good at mitosis andmeiosis.
I'm not good at A squared plusB squared equals C squared.
I can't get you through, I suckat that.
But I need someone that willengage me so that I could find a
(15:11):
connection for that.
So it was my job to make surethat I use my past experiences
as a poor student, a poorscholar and make sure that I
engage it along the way, alwaysstart implementing little things
to tell the kid hey man, Idon't know if you're going
through crap at home, I don'tknow if you're going through
divorce like I did.
I don't know if you'reself-medicating, but you know
what?
(15:32):
It's your birthday, and Istarted always honoring the kids
on their birthday, always, andI can't tell you the countless
numbers of times to tell me yourpencil and your card was the
only thing I received for abirthday Little things like that
.
And then I started puttingkids' work on the wall.
Kids' work this was back in thePaleozoic period, you know.
(15:53):
You just start putting stuff upthere, which is now.
It's what is expected forquality and connections with
kids.
And so what I learned was makingsure that kids felt structure,
kids felt appreciated and kidsfelt heard.
Now I'm not going to do whatyou tell me to do.
I got something to do and I'mstill that way right now.
(16:14):
I'm not going to put up withyour nonsense, because you have
a destiny, you have a purpose inlife and it's my job to pull
you, push you, love you alongthe way on that track, whatever
it might be.
So being consistent, beingloving, is what built me up,
because I never had that.
I needed to be the educator.
I never got Back in my highschool.
(16:36):
There was never you know what.
You would hear theannouncements.
You know this the studentcouncil hey, come to student
council today.
I'm like what the hell is that?
I got to go get drunk.
Oh, come.
Hey, the pep rally for the game.
Oh, senior sunrise, oh seniorsunset.
Oh, the thespians areperforming.
I didn't know none of that.
I didn't know the Americanfactory style system Prom
(16:59):
homecoming all of the guard, thelittle things that go around
the garden Nothing, I didn'tknow, none of that.
I would see it.
I wouldn't ask questionsbecause I needed to go
self-medicate.
So it's my job to always nowsay, hey, get involved with this
, you might like this.
I see that you wear this kindof shirt.
How about you try this?
(17:20):
Provide them with theopportunities that a high school
has, that a middle school has,that a middle school has, that
an elementary has, to make themfeel part of what the air quotes
school pride is, because all ofus determine school pride at
different levels, whether it beelementary, middle school and
high school.
So that's what it taught me tobe engaging, loving and
structured and making sure thatI push those kids, whether they
(17:43):
want to or not, to success.
Principal JL (17:46):
Yeah, you say a lot of things in there that are
impactful.
I believe this If kids knowthat you care, they're going to
learn, they're going to do thethings you ask.
Building those relationshipswhen they know you care, because
you take the time to get toknow them, not just when they're
in trouble but when you're justgetting to know them on the
daily.
You know when they're introuble, but when you know
you're just getting to know themon the daily, like, hey, how's
(18:08):
it going?
You know, I like the fist bumpkids in the hallways and you
know, appreciate that they'rethere and say, hey, we want you
to be here, we want you to bewelcome to our school, because
when I showed up at the currentschool I'm at, they didn't want
to be there, so I had to go.
Well, how can we help themunderstand we want them there,
we care about them, because oncethey understand that you care,
(18:29):
they're going to do what'sneeded.
And another thing that youpointed out kids will rise to
the expectations that you set.
So if you set a low bar,they're going to rise to that.
If you set a high bar, they'regoing to rise to that.
And the proof's in the puddingfor me because I've elevated the
bars over the last three yearsat my school and those kids and
(18:52):
those staffers went in.
I'm like, the more we raisethis, the more they're going to
get to that expectation.
Because when I got here they'relike, oh, we're just glad that
they showed up.
Well, I'm not okay with that.
I want them to be here, but weneed to push them to be the best
that they can be.
And so I feel, like a lot ofthose things that you just
(19:14):
talked about, hopefully a lot ofprincipals are understanding
that's a great way to build thatculture and build that
inclusivity with the kids andbuild that relationship so they
will do the things that you needthem to do.
Because, I'm pretty sure,because you build those
relationships and you have thatstory, they can understand where
(19:34):
you're from and, like you said,you built that street cred to
where, when the tough thingshappen, they're going to respect
what you tell them.
Because you built thatrelationship.
And I'll tell you just eventoday there was a kid he's a
duffel head love the kid.
And a coach asked him.
Even today there was a kid he'sa duffelhead Love the kid.
And a coach asked him hey, doyou give Mr Linden a hard time,
(19:57):
he's like no, I respect him toomuch.
And I was like that was amoment where I was like wow, I
mean this kid, you can be a kid,but because I've built up a
relationship with them, herespects when I say this is the
expectation, he just does it,and so I think that was a lot of
(20:18):
good things.
I think your militarybackground kind of showed
through there a little bit,because I have kind of the same
philosophies and ideas as aleader.
So how does the military kindof affect your leadership style
or just your leadership ingeneral?
Josh Tovar (20:34):
as a principal.
I think it's crucial because, ifyou know, the Marines tear you
down to build you back up andthat's why it's an elite force
across the world and it's aboutestablishing structures and
procedures, and you and I knowthis, and every single last
principal across the UnitedStates or the world knows this
(20:57):
If you don't have systems andprocedures in place that are
repetitive, then you're going tohave chaos and anarchy, and I
think that that's one of thosecrucial things that the Marine
Corps did teach me about beingconsistent with your actions and
making sure that you're aperson of your word.
And when you're a person of yourword and you establish this
protocol, it doesn't matter whothey understand what the
(21:18):
expectation is and then howyou're able to make them believe
.
What do I mean by that?
Believe in the vision thatyou're bringing to the table.
And it goes back to again thestreet cred, because then you
know what you need to havestreet cred, because if you
don't have street cred with theadults, they ain't going to be
rowing with you forever, and soif you're not rowing together,
(21:39):
then there's that chaos that Iwas talking about earlier.
Principal JL (21:44):
Yeah, I really appreciate that.
I mean, I could just tell yourmilitary background does
influence, because it doesinfluence me as well.
I actually got to benon-commissioned officer in my
eight years of preserves.
You know, I don't know what didyou?
What was your MOS Fieldartillery I?
Josh Tovar (21:59):
was a cannon cocker.
We were not.
We didn't face any kind ofliterally, I was at the end of
my contract when the firstPersian Gulf started and so we,
the only thing that was that wemobilized.
And you know that in thereserve rank, unless you're
really active then the ranks goup, and so pretty much we were
(22:20):
doing our monthly drill, our twoweeks in the summer.
But it still kept you freshwith the idea and the mentality
of who you are as an individual.
Because there I was, in themiddle of 29 palms grading
papers.
There I was there.
I don't people don't understandwhat the hell I just said, but
yeah, it was weird, all right tobe grading geography papers in
(22:40):
the middle of 29 palms yeah, Iactually finished my eight years
in the reserve before finishingcollege.
Principal JL (22:47):
Because I decided to take the tenure route,
because I didn't, I did.
I was not a non-traditionaleducator.
I did not go into education outof the gate.
It took me a while to figureout what I wanted to do.
I thought I was going to be aphysical therapist at one point,
but I love what I do and I'mglad I found what I found as
well.
So let's talk about yourteacher.
(23:09):
You're teaching history.
You're engaging kids.
You've got history, fred.
You got the street cred.
You've learned some things.
What was the deciding factor togo from teacher to
administrator Can you talk about?
You know what was the moment?
What was you know?
Were you tapped on the shoulder?
Were you encouraged or youdecided this was my next step?
What was it that said, hey, Iwant to become an administrator?
Josh Tovar (23:33):
My first principle.
I was not satisfied with thecondition and I don't try to be
a prima donna or anything, but Iknew that there was such a
thing as free agency back in thePaleozoic era, because if
you're a strong teacher, otherprinciples, sometimes unethical
principals will talk to you andwill tell you hey, you want to
(23:56):
come to my school.
You want to because work getsout.
You know, in districts worksget out right.
And so I decided to leave myfirst month.
This is my 13th place in 32years, 30, 13 organization.
And so people, people want tosay you're unstable?
Yeah, I am, but you know whatCraziness makes us propel
(24:18):
sometimes.
My next principal I was hiredbut he left.
You know how that happens insummer he hired me in summer but
then he left to another school.
And the lady that took over,that's my guardian angel.
I will always speak her name.
And the lady that took over,that's my guardian angel.
I will always speak her name.
There's a handful of ladiesthat have made me who I am, and
she was the very first oneMillie Williams.
(24:40):
Millie Williams, strong woman,strong African-American woman in
my second middle school.
Oh man, you name it that woman,woo, she was snapping left and
right, that lady was a drillinstructor.
She had that school in Shveg,she had it out there.
And then when she saw me, shedidn't hire me.
(25:02):
She didn't hire me, sheinherited me.
I was not her hire and you knowthat's kind of rough, being new
to the school, and the previousdude hired somebody.
You're like, uh, I don't know,that's my cup of tea.
You know the game?
Oh yeah, there's a game outthere amongst administrators.
And then she saw me in actionand she was a proud graduate of
(25:27):
soros state university and shesaid in middle school, if you
know or you don't know, ifyou're a coach for one thing,
you're a coach for every singlelast sport.
If they have marbles, you'rethe coach for JV marbles.
If you've got a hot jumpy rope,then you're the varsity jumpy
rope, whatever it is.
(25:48):
In middle school you do it all.
And she said, coach, I need youto go to school and become an
administrator.
And I'm like, who's this lady?
I was gonna be one of thoseguys that just dies being a
history teacher because I lovedit, right, and I dug some of the
coaching stuff.
But she goes no, you need toget enrolled.
(26:08):
So you know what?
What?
I don't know her.
She didn't hire me, we're justbuilding a relationship back and
forth.
Then the next semester she goesto Alpine, texas that's where
Sol Ross is and she brings meback a catalog and she says I
told you you need to go.
Here's the catalog.
(26:30):
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,okay, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am,
yes, ma'am.
You know, I love her leadership, I love that she called up
people, both kids and adults.
And then the next semester,which was the following year,
she goes I ain't playing withyou, you need to go to school.
Well, I went to school.
She did everything possible toensure that I went to school.
She, she did everythingpossible to ensure that I went
(26:51):
to school.
She changed the master schedulefor me twice.
Let me repeat that again shechanged the master schedule for
me twice.
She created a position for meto make sure that I was able to
do my internship, my internshiphours, and so she created
in-school suspension.
We never had it, we never hadit, but she created it for me so
(27:14):
that I could be also an youknow, the administrative intern.
Without that woman, I am notsitting here talking to you.
Without that woman, milliewilliams, I am not sitting here.
She kept pushing me, andpushing me and setting me up for
success every single lastpossible way, and obviously you
know what that's one of God'sangels sending that purpose in
(27:36):
my life.
She did everything, like Istated, to make sure that I
became an administrator.
Principal JL (27:42):
Wow, that's a powerful story and you know, I'm
really appreciative that shedid push you and she did get you
to where you are at today.
I think as administrators we dohave somebody that helps us see
that path.
Because even for myself, I wasperfectly fine.
I had a football coach and amath teacher.
(28:03):
I had the dream job because Iwas half-time PE, half-time math
and football coach.
I was like this is great.
But it was my wife's grandpathat sat me down, who was a
former administrator.
He's like you could do more, Ilike whenever you know, I was
like I was like yeah, no way.
(28:24):
But that sat with me and thenyears later I said you know what
?
I think he's right.
And then I I went ahead and didthat With getting into your
principalship.
Talk about your firstprincipalship you learned and
just talk about yourprincipalship journey up to
being where you're at today inyour current role.
(28:46):
Just kind of talk about thatprocess and kind of where you
got.
Like you said, you were in your13th, 15th school.
So there's a lot there that Idon't know.
Let's explore it a little bit.
What are some lessons youlearned along the way?
And then you know what you'redoing today at your current
principal.
Josh Tovar (29:04):
Well, that's a lot being being Fred Flintstone here
, so we're going to cut out.
I think that it's crucial thatI address that.
I was an assistant principalfor 13 years.
I was blackballed in my firstdistrict, never to become a
principal.
The politics you know this.
You know there's politics.
(29:26):
That's the way we got to readGlenn Robbins book.
Won't Back Down.
It talks about the dark side ofpolitics and I was part of that
.
I was both on the good side ofpolitics and I've been on the
bad side of politics and for 13years it got to a point to where
I was told you're never goingto be allowed to interview to
become a principal, neverStraight out, and I had too much
(29:49):
time and that's why I tellpeople out there.
Hey, if you're listening tothis, you have to leave.
If you know you're blackballedor you're not given the
opportunity, you have to leave.
Trust me, the grass, you makeit green.
Let me repeat that again youmake the grass green on the
other side.
It's not always green on theother side.
(30:09):
If you think it's going to beready for you, you have to
continue making it green.
And so one of my colleagues thatworked with me in that district
.
She went up the ranks, we werepeers and then she moved up and
she became an areasuperintendent in the
neighboring district.
And again, this is my secondangel, this is my second angel,
(30:31):
carmen Croce.
Without that woman I would havenever been a principal.
She saw that even though I wasblackballed, I never gave up on
kids.
I never stopped busting my assto make sure the kids were
successful.
She saw the work that I did asan assistant principal and then
I was in charge of a medicalmagnet.
And when you work with medicalmagnets, you see I was used to
(30:57):
dealing with all the hardheadedkids, all the Joshes right.
And then all of a sudden myprincipal says you know what?
I need you to take over themedical magnet.
And I'm like I can't deal withthat kid.
Those are the nerds.
I don't know how to deal withthose kids.
There is a mentality.
There is a total differentmentality.
No disrespect, I know it's the21st century, you don't like to
be called nerds.
I apologize, but you know whatI'm talking about.
(31:18):
Yeah, and so the program wasonly breaking in like 100 kids
and for the amount of money,with seven certifications, that
was not good.
You need to bring in more kidsto that program because you're
dropping tons of Carl Perkinsmoney on there.
(31:39):
And so he says I need you to goout there and take charge.
There were some issues going onwith paperwork and MOUs and kids
maintaining the standard and Iwent in, had to revamp the whole
program.
But then I started using socialmedia.
So what you see right now,those were the early stages of
Josh on social media.
(31:59):
So when I took over, with thehelp of the Bel Air staff and,
most importantly, the Bel AirHighlander kids, we started
recruiting literally all overthe city of El Paso I will go to
the border of New Mexico andtry to recruit those kids and
that enrollment went up from 100kids to 165.
(32:22):
I brought in extra 65 kids fortwo years.
You know how hard that is, butyou know what I did was that I
did the brain drain and all thehigh schools hated that.
What I did was that I did thebrain drain and all the high
schools hated that, because allthose smart kids that were
eighth graders, that were to goup to their feeder pattern, I
took them and so that angeredthem, and so when Ms Cross saw
(32:42):
everything that was going on,she would see what I would be
putting out on social media.
She says hey, josh, I want youto come over to my alma mater
and you need to interview, butright now there are two
principals running it.
The quietness is for effect.
Two principals of a 6A highschool with 2,550 kids.
(33:07):
There's constant fights.
There's a drug house right nextto the parking lot.
It is the lowest graduationrate.
It is the worst letter gradehigh school in the district and
I think you got what it takes tocome and turn it around.
So I said, why not, let's go?
(33:28):
So I went from a medical magnetkit with man.
We just turned that programaround.
Kids were gettingcertifications from EdTech to
Fluid Botany, to LDN.
I mean it was beautiful.
Then I go back to what I'm usedto, you know, to the Joshes,
and she allowed me to get myfoot in the door.
(33:50):
So I'm very appreciative ofMillie Williams and Carmen Croce
.
I will always speak their namebecause through them they gave
me the glory to pass on the bigvision and at that campus where
I became a principal for thefirst time I think that was 2016
.
And we turned it around thanksto the hard work of our team
(34:12):
members, every single less thecustodians, the cafeteria
workers, security, our team%,lower socioeconomic, all poor,
all Hispanic, an area where it'snot supposed to be successful.
(34:40):
In three years, thosehardworking teachers raised it
from a D minus to a B minus.
Let me repeat that again 2,550kids went from a D that was the
lowest, full of fights, full ofweed, full of low attendance to
(35:02):
a B with distinctions.
It went from an 88% graduationrate when our administration
walked in to a 92% when I left,when COVID hit.
That was done in three yearsand it could be done as long as
you always accentuate thepositive, that you care about
kids and they know that you'recaring about them and, most
(35:25):
importantly, that you establishstructures and protocols that
everyone follows and you holdeveryone responsible, starting
with me, starting with the mainchair, because if the main chair
is not role modeling, theexpectation, then it will never
happen, because people will callyou out, people will say that
you're a phony baloney and theywill not follow your vision.
And so that's where I becamethe principal.
(35:48):
And then you know what I think.
You understand this, and a lotof the people that hear my next
conversation.
There's something about sittingin the main chair that really
creates divorce.
It creates problems in yourhouse your personal house is a
principal.
It creates friction with yoursignificant other, with your
(36:12):
wife, whatever it might be,because you're at your events
and not at your family's events.
I was raising other people'skids and ignoring my kids.
I would be going to bi-districtarea regional quarterfinals.
I would be gone every weekend,because the only way you turn
(36:33):
around a school is by alwaysbeing everywhere.
My job was seven days a week.
I will be putting 15, 16 hoursper day because you need to be
seen visible in the classroom,in the hallway, in the lunchroom
, at the softball game, at theorchestra, at the flags, at the
underwater basket weaving,whatever it might be, you need
(36:54):
to be there.
And so, again, god send meanother angel.
And they said there's a schoolhere in North Dallas and we
think you're going to be theright fit for it.
It's a school with immigrants.
Hey, that's me.
I have to learn English, I'm animmigrant, and it's kids that
(37:17):
will drop out, it's kids thatwould fail in high school.
Hey, that's me.
There are no UIL activities,there is no accountability and
whenever you're done, you'redone.
So now, overall, I went frombeing in a school 24-7, coming
(37:40):
to North Dallas, to a schoolwhere I'm home by 5 o'clock
every day raising my kids.
I've not missed anything.
More often than not now I'mhere with my kids, whatever
their celebrations are, whateverit might be, as compared to
before they were.
Third, I am ashamed of sayingthat it does bother me that my
(38:03):
wife had to hold the house down.
It does bother me.
You know much respect to herfor doing that, for having that
ability to maintain thehousehold, because I would have
to put both my health, theschool and then my family in
that order, because if I'm noton tip-top shape then the school
is not going to be running.
And my focus was that, marineCorps, stick to your protocols,
stick to what you have to do.
(38:24):
So I got tired pretty much ofnot being with mine and I had
recently had a brand new baby,and that's when COVID happened.
And so I know disrespect toanybody out there at all.
You know much love to you.
I'm not saying it happened, nothappened.
No one talks about COVIDanymore.
No one talks about whateverhappened back then.
(38:44):
But for our family, for theTawars, it was a great time
Because when the shutdownhappened I was running the
school from El Paso in Dallas.
I was in El Paso but running aschool in Dallas from El Paso,
and my family and I, we bonded.
I raised my baby.
(39:04):
I raised my baby, I saw my baby, I smelled him, he pooped on me
, all that stuff that goes withbeing.
We would do family walks, wewould do all that.
So COVID pretty much brought ustogether because we were never
really a unit.
And so now I'm here at MemorialPathway Academy in Garland, the
(39:25):
Garland, usa, and it's amagical place.
And again, coming here, therewere so many things that needed
rewiring.
There were so many changes andexpectations because, like I
mentioned, they would send kidsto Memorial Pathway Academy.
Just get them out of here, justgraduate them.
The lowest expectation Academy.
They would just get them out ofhere, just graduate them.
(39:46):
The lowest expectation was 22credits, just get them out.
You know they never go toschool.
They're here to sell drugs,they're here to ditch whatever.
Just graduate them.
And then the newcomers justteach them whatever you know,
just you know.
Try to get some English inthere, I go.
That's not fair, I wouldn'tlike that.
That's not what I expect.
(40:07):
And so up until this last yearwe've turned, you know, our team
members in the classroom, oursecretary, our paraprofessionals
.
Obviously, I've gone from alittle city that I ran every day
, close to 3,000 people, down to450.
Not that much, just a littleenclave as compared to what that
(40:29):
is.
But it's turned around.
Kids are graduate.
There are more kids nowgraduating on the actual
graduation advance plan likeeverybody else.
They're all graduating withccmr.
Our eb students are leaving ourhome practicing, practicing
speaking English and they'reprepared for their comprehensive
schools.
(40:50):
Last year we just did the dataand I'll share this because I
don't think a lot of people atmy school listen, because it's
part of my PD.
All last year I think we maxedout at 472 kids and we have
sixth grade to seniors.
I've got 10-year-olds to20-year-olds in one building,
I've got them separated by threehallways and with all those
(41:13):
things we had a total of 60referrals in the whole year.
Six zero 60.
And they were mainly for cellphone and just falling asleep in
class.
Wouldn't you like to have thatas an issue?
Wouldn't you like to have that?
I had no fights.
I had some shoving by 6thgraders.
(41:34):
You know how that goes.
You know how 6th graders are.
I had no major fights.
I had no girl fights.
I had some vapes.
We averaged out .34 referralsper day 0.34.
What is that?
It's a joke.
There were weeks that kidswould.
We would have weeks that notone hallway would send a
(41:57):
referral.
So it's all based on thoseprocedures and they're all based
on love and caring, making surethat the kid feels connected
with the educator, making surethat the kid feels connected
with the building and makingsure that the parents, when they
drop off their child, they knowthat they're being loved.
Principal JL (42:16):
I think you've covered a lot of things.
It's really interesting kind ofhow you had people in your life
that kind of put you in aposition to show you know what I
can do this, and then you knowwhat I can do this, and then you
know what you are doing.
A really good job.
Let's try you at this.
And then you succeeded.
And I think you bring somethingup that we all go through as
administrators, where there wedo put our families, you know,
(42:39):
behind our career A lot of thetimes, especially when you get
new to it and you feel likeyou've got to do everything, but
then you get like I'm eightyears in as a principal, I'm
going into my.
I'm just finished my seventhyear as a principal, going into
my 19th year overall.
In education I've had to learnyou know what.
(43:00):
There's times where, hey, myjob comes, that's what I'll do,
but then I have to learn to shutthat off.
And when I'm with my family,I'm there.
I think the best advice I'veever had was be present where
your feet are at.
So if you're at your schooldoing your job, you're doing it
to the best of your ability.
You're at home with your family.
You're being with your familyto the best of your ability.
(43:21):
I think we all struggle withthat as administrators because
even when, when you're like forme and you as a high school
principal, you feel like, oh mygosh, you know for me to turn
this around or to get where Iwant it to go, I got to do this,
I got to do that, and then youjust overdo it and you can't
keep up on it.
So I really appreciate how youshare that struggle, because we
(43:44):
all we all go through it.
It all takes us time to figureout how to manage that, so our
families don't feel neglectedwhen you're in this role as well
.
Josh Tovar (43:54):
And let me just say this and I know you've heard
some of my podcasts and I'm veryhonest and everything If you
want to do an effective job, Ican tell you there is no such
thing as life-work balance.
If you choose to interview fora school that's a D or an F, you
better make sure you talk toyour partner first.
(44:16):
Make sure you tell them hey,I'm going to interview and it's
a tough school and I won't behere for a lot of days.
I'm not going to be here forbirthdays.
You better have thatconversation before you go to
the interview, because if youdon't have that conversation,
that's going to create thedivorce, because in the end, if
you suck as a principal andthey're hiring you to go fix a
(44:39):
not good school and you're notgood, then that means your
career just went down the toilet.
You'll be blackballed andyou'll never get another chance
as an administrator.
You know what I'm talking about.
They'll put you back in theclassroom.
There's a lot of incidents outthere that principals become
classroom teachers again, and soit's very important that you
(44:59):
know what you're gettingyourself into.
I'm sorry, I hear it.
I don't agree.
I, josh, josh, everyone isgoing to agree with it.
Everyone is going to agree withit.
But there is no such thing aslife to work balance.
If you want to raise a lowperforming environment, you have
to really put in the time forthat to happen.
And then what sucks about itand I think you know this what
(45:23):
sucks about it is that once youmake it high, the hard part is
keeping it at that level.
So people would say, oh, I'mwalking into a B, I'm walking
into an A campus.
Oh, baby, you better havebetter walked into a D.
Because the thing is, if theguy before you left a B and you
drop it to a C or you drop it toa D, uh-uh, baby, that's you.
(45:45):
If you walked into an A and itgoes to a B, woo, oh, but I have
life work balance.
Oh, no, I turn off my cellphone on Saturdays.
Oh, I don't send emails, Idon't read emails.
Fine, but for a reaction thereis an equal reaction.
Yeah, you just understand thatif it's a needy school, you're
(46:07):
going to need the leader and youalways need to role model the
expectation.
Principal JL (46:12):
No, and I think I agree with that.
I think you, as a leader, gotto role model the expectations
you have, because if you don'tlike you said, they'll call you
out and they ain't going tofollow, or they're not going to
follow, a leader that isn'tgoing to hold themselves to the
expectation you're asking themto do.
And I always tell my staff I'mnever going to ask you to do
(46:32):
anything that I haven't done orI won't be willing to do myself,
and so I will never ask morethan I would ever do for myself.
So I think that's important forleaders to know out.
There is don't ask more ofpeople that you wouldn't do
yourself.
So if you do that, I thinkyou're in a good place.
I think we talk about work-lifebalance.
(46:53):
The reality is, if you arebeing the best person who are at
the place that you are.
So if you're being dad, be thebest dad you can be at that time
.
If you're being a husband, bethe best husband at that time,
or wife or, you know,grandparent or whatever.
If, then, when you're in theprincipal role, you're being the
(47:14):
best principal while you're atthat job, because you're never
going to be able to make it 5050.
It's not going to happen.
There's times of the year whereyou're just going, going, going
and the school leaders thatroll, and then there's times
like, hey, I was able to take,you know, some time off and I
was able to spend it with myfamily and do those things and
(47:34):
you know you have to learn like,okay, this is when I am present
in here and so I think, beingthe best, you can be where your
feet are at, I think is the bestadvice that I could give
somebody in this role, becauseyou're never going to be, you
know, 50, 50 on anything, ever,probably more like six.
If you get the 75, 25, you'redoing all right, you know.
(47:57):
But at the same time, you knowI really appreciate just your
journey and everything thatyou've done.
What is the biggest lessonyou've learned as an
administrator that you couldhelp other administrators
thinking about getting into thisrole?
What is something that you say?
I think you've talked about alot of it, but maybe kind of.
(48:18):
You know you talk about culture.
You talk about, you know,discipline.
You talk about expectations.
Culture you talk about, youknow discipline.
You talk about expectations,what and systems.
What is something that you said?
You know?
This is probably it's allimportant, but I think is really
important, if you're coming into be in a principal, that you
need to know about being aprincipal A few things.
Josh Tovar (48:40):
Number one when your team members get dressed in the
morning, eat breakfast andthey're walking to their car and
they have their keys in theignition, do they say I got to
go to work or do they say, allright, I'm going to work?
(49:00):
Are you setting up a goodenvironment for those people
going to work?
Are you setting up a goodenvironment for those people
when your kids, your students,your scholars go to your campus?
Do they feel safe?
Would you want your kid, youyour DNA?
Principal, assistant principal,would you want your kid in
(49:22):
every teacher's class?
Let me repeat that again haveyou created something in your
campus that you could put yourown DNA in every teacher's class
?
What you do to celebrate kids,would you like it?
As a dad, as a mom, do you evendo anything to celebrate the
(49:46):
child and not make it only aboutthe learning?
What is going out there?
What is your vision?
Your vision has to cover yourbabies, your scholars, their
parents, so that they leave youalone, and your team members, so
that they leave you alone andyour team members.
If your vision encompasses allof those three parts, then
(50:11):
you'll be okay.
If you're able to go to aconference and not get a phone
call, you're doing good.
If you're able to go to centraloffice to a training and never
get a call from security, froman AP, from a teacher, you're
doing good.
If you're worried aboutsomething happening at your
school, you're not doing good.
(50:32):
You don't have systems in placethat will give you peace of
mind.
Let me tell you, when I go toconferences, like I went to
during school time I think Iwent to North Carolina Middle
School Conference, which Isuggest everyone go this year I
didn't worry about it.
I didn't worry about it at all.
When I take off to take my kidsnow I get to take my kids to
(50:54):
doctor's appointments I call insick and I take my babies.
No one calls me because there'sprocedures, systems in place.
And if someone calls me fromthe school, it better be
Hiroshima.
And let me tell you, knock onfake wood, I've established
enough wherever I'm at, where Idon't get calls at all
(51:18):
whatsoever.
So, educator out there thatwants to sit in the chair, does
your vision cover 360, thosethree groups?
Do they want to be at yourschool?
Would you have your kids atthat school and do you honor and
celebrate everybody to wherethey feel comfortable?
Now, don't get me wrong.
You're always going to havehurt people, hurt people, hurt
(51:44):
people and it doesn't matter.
You can never make everyonehappy.
I've learned that in so manyschools.
Do you know who the weebies are?
Principal JL (51:53):
Have you heard of the weebies?
The weebies.
Explain the weebies.
The weebies.
Josh Tovar (51:57):
Guys, there's a group and Coach Hurt Coach Hurt,
who's part of the FantasticFour, which is part of our
podcast system, he calls them Mrand Mrs Potato Plant.
I call them the weebies.
Those are those ankle bitersthat every school has, and you
know what they say we be herebefore you, we be here after you
.
We ain't going to do what yousay.
(52:18):
So everyone has those weebies.
Don't worry about the weebies,don't worry about Mr or Mrs
Potato Plant.
Worry about honoring yourscholars and making sure that
you're that light that they need, that you're that lighthouse
that inspires them.
You're that person, thatindividual, that vision that
makes sure that they'll walk onfire for you.
(52:38):
And if you do that, then youknow what?
In 15 years, when you're atSubway and you've got shades on
and you have no makeup and youstink, one of your scholars is
going to go up to you andthey're going to say hey, tobar,
is that you?
Tobar?
You have a cap on, you're notdressed normally.
And I say, yeah, tobar, becauseof you, you changed my life.
(53:03):
That school changed my life.
That school changed my life.
Thank you, drop mic.
You've made a difference.
Principal JL (53:10):
And I think those are the moments we live for as
educators, right, where youdon't get those things in the
moment.
Those things come year down theroad.
I've had students that I'vecoached or I've taught as well
as being a person.
I've had people write meletters, shoot me a quick DM on
(53:31):
Facebook just saying, hey,because of your leadership or
what you've done, thank you,this is where I'm at today and
because of these things.
So those are the most rewardingparts about this.
These are things you don't getin the moment, but they're
things that you get 5, 10, 15,20 in your case, 33 years down
(53:54):
the road.
You're going to get those,those moments where someone's
going to tell you hey, Iappreciate the things you've
done because it helped me get towhere I'm at today, and so I
think those are very impactfulthings to understand as well,
maybe when you're in the job andyou're thinking, oh my gosh, am
I making a difference?
(54:14):
Like you said, if you havesystems in place and you have
the right people, you put agreat teacher in front of those
students and you help them begreat, and those students and
you're impacting studentseverywhere you go, it's going to
matter and you just won't knowit until later.
I think that's a great way tokind of make some great advice
(54:35):
for people out there thinkingabout the chair.
So we talked about thefantastic floor.
You talked about the podcasting.
You are a fellow podcaster aswell.
It's called the PGP Podcast.
Now, for those that don't know,what does PGP mean?
Josh Tovar (54:53):
PGP Podcast Puras Ganas Podcast.
Puras Ganas.
You know what?
There are not a lot of Hispanicpodcasts out there that are
education-based.
You know that.
Trust me, I look for them.
I have yet to find one.
If you're an educator, I don'tmean to do tribes at all, I
(55:13):
don't.
I don't mean to separatebecause I see everything.
You know that I watch they leadme a podcast.
But you know what?
There's a certain niche andcertain conversations that you
do have with Hispanic kids.
You know that.
Oh yeah, you know that you workwith those kids in Nebraska.
You know what I'm talking about.
(55:34):
There's a certain kind ofdialogue, a certain kind of
verbal connection.
We talk about papusas orenchiladas, or the chancla or
the fly swatter or whatever itis, or the chancla or the fly
swatter or whatever it is.
There's certain connectionsthat you make as educators that
bring that inspiration of beingthat loving person that is the
provider of knowledge for kids,and so it's a term that we
(55:59):
always use as Hispanics andthat's where we got the name
from.
Puras ganas is a term, phraseused by Hispanics all over the
Western Hemisphere, and we'repart of a group of four
podcasters, so the very firstone is Coach Hurt.
These are all Facebook Live,coach Hurt.
(56:20):
If you need help with data, thatguy, he talks it.
I understand it, but he talksit like he talks good, you know
how.
There's Texas laws and thenthere's federal laws and Texas
do their own nonsense and thosedarn red states right.
And then there's federalguidelines If you need help on
how to break down your data andyour core tiles and your sim
(56:43):
tiles and the oop tiles,whatever it is, core service
were man.
Then after that, at 10 30,you've got chica and tammy, the
doctors, and what they do isthat they talk about how to turn
around a school.
Those two ladies were about toget fired.
They were told pick up theschool or you're out.
So they they created aframework, the real framework.
(57:06):
What is the real framework?
You got to find out.
Tune in at 1030 and they willeducate you on how to create
those steps and those protocols.
Our third program is El Jefe,principal Baruti.
Kafele, principal Kafele.
If I need to say anything aboutthat, then you've been under a
rock, but you've got to listento him at 1055.
(57:28):
Those are the three programsand we're the anchor.
We're the anchor on Sundays at4 pm Central, but once football
starts.
We're going to move it up to 5pm Because I know football is
king across the United States.
So we're all the same but we'retotally different.
We all love kids, we allinspire adults or look to
(57:51):
inspire them, but we all have adifferent niche.
We all do Our show.
Platforms are totally differentbut the same.
I don't know if that makessense, but that's what bonds us
together.
We are a group of educatorsthat provide you with Free PD.
Principal JL (58:08):
Free PD.
And let's talk about that FreePD because, josh, you listen to
multiple podcasts and I know, asa podcaster, when you have
people out there promoting yourpodcast, it means a lot and I
appreciate the listening anddoing that.
But you listen to multiple.
I mean, if it's an education,you're listening to it, you're
(58:31):
doing reviews, you're sharing itout and, to be honest, I have
actually followed you onFacebook and LinkedIn and so I
see your post and I go, hey,that sounds like an interesting
podcast.
I'm going to go check that outfor myself.
And you always talk about, youknow, free PD, no excuses.
What inspired you to do that?
(58:52):
What is the reasoning behind?
You know, in my, in my, mysense, you're lifting up other
educators and helping you knowwith their networking abilities,
because, I will tell you,people are downloading my show
even more since you've done thatand I see the effects of it
just in my downloads.
But what has caused you?
(59:14):
What inspires you to do that?
Because I know it's appreciated, I love them and I love the
reviews that you put out forpeople's episodes.
Well, thank you.
Josh Tovar (59:23):
That's very kind.
You know what.
I truly believe that ironsharpens iron, and there's a
certain thing that happens toeducators, to administrators
after 30 years, a lot of themthink that they know it all or
they're already tapped out.
And I cannot do that.
I can't become stagnant water.
That would be such a failure orlack of respect for the people
(59:46):
that believed in me.
I could never become thatindividual that says I'm at the
end, I don't care, I can't.
I could, I've established agood pattern, I've established
success.
But you know what?
That's cheating my current kid,and I refuse to do that Because
a lot of people cheated me whenI was going up, and so I like
(01:00:09):
listening to educators.
I need to learn what's going on.
The person that started all thisand he'll be on the show is
Fonz, my EdTech Life.
So it all started with Corona.
We all started podcasting.
Everyone started podcasting,and you had nothing to do but
was to walk, do take-in, deliverat your house and listen to
(01:00:33):
shows, watch TV.
And I listened to Fonz and I'mlike, oh, this is pretty cool,
this is pretty cool, all right,all right.
And so then just startedlistening, but I wouldn't repost
or anything like that.
So much, much respect, muchlove to Fonz, who was the first
person to get me hooked intothis.
(01:00:54):
Obviously, there's a lot ofnational podcasters out there
that connect with you, but inregards to the field of
education, he was the one.
Then one day there was ChrisSarcheski and Dean Packard.
They started a podcast foreducators.
It was called Unlock the Middleand they would call me every
once in a while to be part oftheir panel to talk.
(01:01:17):
One day he just said hey,you're a turnaround principal.
You want to be on the show.
I'm like you know, you get thiswhen you call people for the
first time.
They're like me.
Why would you want to meet?
And I thought nothing of it.
And from that moment on, forlike around, I think, two years,
I was an unlock the middle withhim and your question to me was
(01:01:37):
well, why do you share it andreview it?
Because I thought we did tonsof great shows with them, but I
wouldn't get any.
We wouldn't get.
You know, we don't get feedbacksometimes and we want to know.
I didn't hear you on your showsay hey, you like this?
Let me know.
Hey, guys, when we ask you aspodcasters, it's not about ego
or vanity, we just know thatCoach Hurd says are we talking
(01:02:00):
good?
Are you getting anything out ofthis?
Are you becoming a betterversion of yourself with
listening to these words?
And so I said you know what?
Obviously, as I said earlier, Ineed to role model the
expectations, right?
So again, I got to practicewhat I preach.
So at that moment I startedhearing podcasts, I started
doing, you know, just a littlepicture of what I was seeing,
(01:02:22):
and just heard the show, listento it, but that's so on a scale
of one to five.
That's so nonsense, right.
So then how can I engage people?
That's what we tell our kids todo when they write prompts,
right.
What can we tell to engage thereader?
And so then I started doingthat, doing a summary of what I
heard and just posting it outthere.
(01:02:43):
And then, when you hear that,then you start seeing other
podcasters appear on your feed,right.
And if you see the same guestand you follow them somewhere
else, oh, I like what they said,let me hear them again with
this other person.
Are they faking the funk?
Are they putting on the show oris it really them?
And then you review it.
And so then I just got intothat, but then that also became
(01:03:06):
a great pattern for me, again,part of my life, and I'm sure
that you know this.
I wake up early in the morning,at 3.30 every morning, to go to
the gym.
So I'm at the gym by 4.15.
And along the way, while I'mdrinking my supplements, while
I'm driving to the gym, whileI'm out there, it allows me to
focus on what my vision is andbeing prepared for the first
(01:03:27):
when I go to school.
So I put those reviews outthere.
Number one for the hard work.
Hey, everybody out there,everybody that does a podcast.
It is very time consuming.
We're not getting any financial.
We're not getting Joe Roganmoney.
We're not getting Bill Mahermoney.
None of us are getting anymoney.
We're not getting Bill Mahermoney.
None of us are getting anymoney.
All I'm letting you know isthat we do it because we want
(01:03:49):
our beautiful profession tobecome the best version of
itself, especially with theexodus that's going on.
We have so many administratorscoming up that shouldn't be
administrators, but because somany are leaving, we have so
many outstarts out there that wedon't have the money either to
send people to training or thetime.
So these are the great thingsthat we need to use.
(01:04:12):
So if you listen to a podcast,just like it and share it Like
this one, it's not out of vanityand it's not about being
jealous of somebody else.
It's nothing it's about.
Did we learn from each other?
Did we do a good job that canhelp another person?
So I think that the best thingthat I could do to help your
podcast, to help fons, isbarbara bray, I mean, you know,
(01:04:35):
the lini goes on.
Tony katani, I listen, I listen.
I think I think I'm at 18 rightnow that I alternate there and
pepper.
I mean I listen to that andthen what am I in the mood for?
And then I just review it.
So I listen to it.
I try to listen to three everyday, unless they're one hour,
like dave bridges.
Podcasts are an hour.
That takes up most of myworkout time.
(01:04:56):
But I learned a lot from davebridges.
So you put those things outthere and if I got something out
of it and I'm an old fart oil,I'm a dinosaur Then maybe you,
of course, your principal.
I can guarantee you you couldget something out of that.
That's right.
Principal JL (01:05:14):
But I appreciate it.
You said a lot of really greatthings there.
I think the free PD is like ifyou even listen to my intro I
talk about this is professionaldevelopment.
My goal for the podcast is togive something to other
administrators to help them.
That's the heart, that's themission.
I bring on guests to go.
(01:05:35):
Hey, what can we learn from thisguest?
How can we connect ourselves?
Because, as principals, thiscould be a lonely job.
You could be isolated.
Yeah, you may have assistantprincipals, but when you're at
the top, you're the buildingprincipal and you are in charge
of that building.
It's not the assistantprincipal that's going to get in
trouble, it's you.
(01:05:56):
You got to be the one that hasto.
You know your foot is going tobe held to the fire, so you have
to make sure that you're doingthe best you can.
Going to be held to the fire,so you have to make sure that
you're doing the best you can do.
It Do right by your assistantprincipals, everybody that you
are working with andcollaborating with, and so
(01:06:18):
that's why I do it.
It took me a while to really beconsistent with it, and that's
something that I've gotten waybetter at.
But you know what I wouldn't behere talking to Josh Tabar
without this podcast.
I wouldn't be learning from himtoday and his journey in
education, and I wouldn't learnfrom Darren Pepper and I
wouldn't learn from Tony Catani.
These are people that I havelistened to as well, as you know
(01:06:39):
putting out a content for otherpeople.
It's not about me.
I really care less about myself.
I care about helping othersthat are in this seat because
there's I think we're gettingmore of it and it's really great
to see.
But when I started podcastingthere wasn't a lot out there,
and so I think it's grown overthe last three, four years and I
(01:07:01):
think it's great, and it'sgreat way to stay connected.
When you are in the seat at yourschool and you could be that
small rural school like I wasthere's not a lot of networking
you can do out in a foreignfield of a school.
You know you've got to havesome way to get connected and
network with other educators andyou have to be able to do it on
(01:07:22):
a daily.
That's where podcasts, I think,are a really great tool to do
that.
So thank you, josh, for that.
And so, man, this has been agreat conversation.
Time has flown by.
I've learned so much from you,and just your path, your journey
, where you're at.
So you know, Josh, what are youup to today?
(01:07:43):
People want to reach out andget connected with you.
How can they reach out?
I'll put your information inthe show notes for that.
And what is the best advice youcould give educational leaders
before we end the show today?
Josh Tovar (01:07:57):
Reach out, steal everything that I put out on
social media.
Take it, make it yours.
If you need me to help you withsome logos or some stuff, I'll
show you what apps I use.
I've been doing culture stuffalready all summer.
I've been sending out stuff tokids, to teachers.
(01:08:29):
I've been doing all that outthere Because I rather spend
time front load Love.
So when you come in, youalready know that the Linus
Blanket is waiting for you.
So reach out to me Whatever youneed.
You want to be a guest on thePGP podcast?
Come on over.
I'm already booking forSeptember.
Come on over, tell me what youdo.
(01:08:51):
We'll find a niche, we'll putyou in there.
But, most importantly, if youwant to visit our home, come on
over.
If you're in Texas, hey, youwant to come over from Nebraska?
Come on over.
You know what we have.
10 districts visit us last year,10.
They left awestruck on thepedagogy that's implemented at
(01:09:16):
Memorial Pathway Academy forkids from Pakistan, from Africa,
from Vietnam, from all CentralSouth America, to those kids
that are teen parents, thosekids that are 19 with three
credits.
That's who is MPA.
And I know you, you educator.
I know you have that and youknow what this is where magic is
(01:09:39):
made.
The true Disneyland is nolonger in Florida and California
, it is at MPA.
So come on over, copy the stuffthat we have and visit us.
You open door.
I don't put a dog and pony showon.
You know, you've been to thoseschools where you visit that
same classroom.
Uh-huh, come on, I don't.
I just set up a structure andsay what do you want to see?
(01:10:00):
And we're just going to walk in.
I never tell anybody other thanthe clerks we might have guests
tomorrow.
That way some strangers come in.
You know we got to do thebackground check and the whole
ID stuff, but other than that Idon't tell anybody.
I say, hey, they might be onconference.
We're just going to walk intothe classroom and I want you to
see this and see this and makesure you check for their exit
(01:10:21):
tickets.
Everyone, wherever you walk in,they see that the kids are
engaged, they see that there'sno cell phones out, they see
that there's bell-to-bellinstruction.
So if you want to see that youhave an open invitation to come
to Memorial Pathway Academy andif you want to know a little bit
of our story, I wrote about itin Barbara Bray's book Grow your
(01:10:42):
why?
Chapter 23,.
I am the last chapter.
They save the best for lastbaby.
That's MPA.
If you want to find out how youturn a school from a D to a B
if you want to turn around aschool like MPA, this is where
you find out about it.
I wrote about it.
Reach out, I'm here for you.
Iron sharpens iron.
Principal JL (01:11:03):
Hey, I appreciate you being on the show today,
josh.
I appreciate all the insightsyou have and the work you're
doing and how you're impactingeducation in a positive light.
Thank you for being on the showtoday, gracias.
What a great episode with JoshTovar.
Josh shared his powerfuljourney with personal insights
(01:11:25):
on how he got into education,his time in the US Marine Corps
to leading schools with heart,purpose and relentless focus on
relationships.
His message is a reminder thatleadership is about connection,
being authentic and service toothers.
If you're not already followingJosh, be sure to check out the
PGP podcast and follow his workon social media.
(01:11:49):
His energy is contagious andhis insights are invaluable.
If this episode resonated withyou, please share it with others
who need to hear it.
Until next time, be 1% better.
I am very excited for today's guest, Josh Tovar.
He is a passionate educationalleader, proud US Marine veteran
and an advocate forstudent-centered leadership.
Born in Juarez, mexico, andraised in El Paso, texas, josh
brings over three decades ofexperience across 13 educational
institutions, from elementaryschools to the university level
(00:24):
institutions.
From elementary schools to theuniversity level.
He is currently serving as theprincipal at Memorial Pathway
Academy in Garland ISD in NorthDallas, Texas.
He is known for his unwaveringbelief in the power of
relationships and his guidedmantra connections before
content, a dynamic presence onsocial media and the host of the
(00:46):
PGP podcast.
Josh champions professionalgrowth and reminds us that
podcasts are free PD.
No excuses.
Now let's get to some free PDwith Josh Tovar.
All right, welcome back toanother episode of the
(01:11):
Leadership Podcast.
I am excited and I am thrilledto bring Josh Tovar in on the
show.
So, josh, welcome.
Josh Tovar (01:21):
Thank you very much.
My brother Appreciate youreaching out and connecting.
You know what we're going to dothis in a couple of weeks, so
check his show out and thencheck out the PGP podcast.
Hey, I'm a proud principal ofMemorial Pathway Academy in
Garland, ISD, Garland, usa,ready to rock and roll with this
young man whose journey I juststarted.
I think I'm on episode five ofyours, no 10 of yours, and you
(01:45):
know what I'm learning a lot TomOsborne.
Tom Osborne was also one of theguys that I'll appreciate, and
that's the whole point aboutlistening to podcasts.
It's free, pd, but mostimportantly, it reminds us as
leaders that we take knowledgefrom different people, different
parts of the country, andultimately make it a better
version of ourselves so that ourkids could prosper.
(02:06):
So thank you for having me hereon your show.
Principal JL (02:08):
You bet Josh, wow, that's probably the best
introduction of somebody comingin on the show.
So I appreciate the shout outsand the listening and the
engagement with the episodes,but you don't just listen to my
podcast.
Listen to other podcasts andwe'll get into that later on in
the show.
But, josh, I'm going to goahead and start you off with the
(02:29):
same question.
I start everybody off on thisshow what inspired you to become
an educator?
Josh Tovar (02:35):
My pathway was not, as we hear on, the traditional
way of being a little kidwanting to teach.
That was not at all.
I was a very dysfunctionalyouth.
I was not very scholarly, I wasa big-time loser.
I was a drunk in high school.
I had no pathway.
I was a child of divorce.
(02:57):
I was part of the statistics ofa low-income, minority male.
Child of divorce was notsupposed to make it, let alone
an immigrant.
I am Virginia and Jesus'American dream, and so we came
from another country andimmigrated to the United States.
But in the end you go throughthe trials and tribulations of
(03:18):
life and you know this.
In Nebraska, in Utah, in Miami,it doesn't matter where.
Kids go through the sameobstacles alcoholism,
self-medication, divorce andit's what we do at the
schoolhouse to ensure that weprovide the proper opportunities
.
But I didn't have it.
I'm back from the Mesozoic eraperiod in the 1980s, and they
(03:40):
didn't have SEL, they didn'thave computers.
We didn't have none of thatnonsense.
It was suck it up, buttercup,generation X, all in the house
here and ultimately it was oneof those things that I really
had no way Now.
Prior to this, my brother hadleft the house Again, child of
divorce, had no other way, gotin conflict with my dad and he
(04:03):
took off to the Marines.
And so, very long story short,a lot of dynamics that happen
obviously in families.
We know that you go throughthat.
In your chair, being theprincipal and as the assistant
principals, you hear all ofthese stories of kids.
And my brother took off and sawthe world, but he was not very
successful up to this day.
I just couldn't speak facts towhere he doesn't have a long
(04:24):
standing career.
And now he's getting close tothe 60 mark.
And my mom knew that I was aloser, knew all the issues that
I had, and so I decided, I tookit upon myself to not go down
the pathway of cocaine, heavierdrugs.
I was drinking maybe like fourdays a week.
I live on the border town of ElPaso and Juarez and all you
(04:49):
needed was five to ten dollarsto go get drink and drown.
So you would drink like nineo'clock in the morning, ten
o'clock, whatever it took you toget over there, you will get
drunk and then you come backright before the bell rang and
you will go home and it's one ofthose things.
I'm not proud of it, but youknow what?
Those were the facts of life.
And if you think that thosekids that don't go to your high
school in Nebraska or don't goto your high school in Utah, you
(05:12):
think they're going home justto watch Maury Povich, they're
not.
They're self-medicating,they're doing a lot of those
things like I did.
It's life.
And so my mom she left us.
My mom and the divorce said Idon't want custody of my kids.
So you know, there's a lot oftrauma there, you know, when you
(05:32):
find out these things down theroad.
And so I needed to go, and theydidn't care back then about
CCMR, they didn't care abouttotal number of credits, they
didn't care about none of thisstuff.
So they I graduated the bottomof my class barely with 0.5
credits over bottom two-thirds,and I needed to, you know,
sharpen my future, and the onlyway was to the marines.
(05:54):
You know that the marine corpshas a proud tradition of success
and I needed a quick kick inthe ass.
And so so, since I was 17, mymom said I'm not.
There's a whole purpose behindthe story, besides connecting
with your, besides connectingwith you, with your kids.
It's the same story in 2025 asit was in 1988.
(06:19):
And my mom says I'm not goingto sign your, your, your
paperwork unless you decide togo to school.
And so the Marine recruiter youknow recruiters, they just win
their quota.
And so he says, okay, you'restill a quota, go to the reserve
.
And so that's where my momagreed to, and I agreed to, go
to the University of Texas at ElPaso and go to boot camp, go to
Fort Sill, oklahoma, to fieldartillery school.
(06:40):
And from that point on I didn'tknow what I wanted.
Obviously, success breedssuccess, but I never had that.
I was a loser in high schoolAcademically.
I still have learningdisabilities.
So, hey, senior teacher orfreshman teacher in high school,
I have three master'scertifications and I still have
(07:01):
problems reading.
And I still have problemsreading that silence for you to
ponder what I just said.
He'll tell you that we haveprincipal meetings and they give
us articles to read in jigsawand then we're supposed to read
those articles, right, like forfive minutes.
I'm always the last one.
I still have a learningdisability.
(07:22):
You know it's hard for me toread, I still get distracted.
And so if you expect your kidto be successful, you're talking
to somebody that I feel is asuccessful principal and I still
have reading problems.
So don't say that the kidshould already know it by now
because they're a freshman orthey're a senior.
No, a learning problem is alearning problem, whether it be
(07:44):
self-imposed or you were justborn with it, just like my
glasses.
I was born with that disability, whatever, and I'm just using
that term as something that'snot equal, all right, not as a
crutch.
And I didn't know what I wantedto do.
And so my mom, what she woulddo was when we lived in Juarez,
my mom received a scholarshipfrom Lydia Patterson.
(08:06):
That's why I'm a Methodist,because Lydia Patterson
Institute gave her a Methodistorganization, gave her a
scholarship to go to UTEP.
There's a lot of connectionsthere, obviously and what she
would do is that she would takeus to the public library.
What she did?
She would go to jail nowadays,all right.
She would leave us hours in theEl Paso Public Library while
(08:27):
she went to school, which waslike around 25 minutes walking
distance, and we would staythere hours upon hours.
And what I always gravitated towere biographies by Ronald Sim.
I still remember it.
I loved Conquistadorbiographies and I would read
them and I would read them and Iwould love them.
I would sit there.
(08:48):
I knew I was in compliancebecause I didn't want my mom to
hit me with her chancla, and soI would stay quiet.
They would give me certificateswith little 515, little, and it
was a great experience.
And so she goes.
You like history, become agreat experience, and so she
goes.
You like history, Become ahistory teacher.
So that was, I think, aseven-minute journey on how I
(09:09):
became an educator.
I did not want to be aneducator, I disliked history.
I used to say this as a middleschool kid.
Why do I need to know history?
They're already dead.
Go figure, I have a master's inhistory and the whole thing is
I was never taught appropriately.
What do I mean by that?
I was never taught.
I was always taught by thatcoach.
(09:29):
It's still happening.
Look at me, it's stillhappening.
That coach just goes by hisfootball plays and not by
engaging the kids with abilityto make history alive.
And if you do it in such apassionate way, people will love
history.
(09:49):
And so you know, along the way,I found that passion, I found
that beauty of what history was,because then you start seeing
it in today's TV, literallytoday's television.
You start seeing the cycle ofhumanity and I was able to make
a connection with the content tomy kids.
(10:12):
I'm there so they learn.
I wasn't there for me to teach.
Let me repeat that again I'mthere for them to learn, not for
me to teach.
So it was my job to engage himand make dead dudes look cool,
and it's not easy, it's not easy.
And so I've always had thatlove for history and I could
(10:36):
tell you like right now, mysix-year-old he just learned
about George III, he justlearned about CJ Thomas
Jefferson writing thatlast-minute rough draft on July
the 3rd and he had to turn it infor his group work.
You see, if you connected withthem, then they're going to get
it and it's showing that passion, that love.
So that was my pathway intoeducation.
(10:58):
I didn't want to be an educator.
I never aspired to it.
My dad was a businessman so Ithought that was going to be my
business route.
But you know what God, life andmy pathway took me to this
beautiful profession, theprofession that creates all the
other professions education, youbet.
Principal JL (11:14):
Hey, man, that's a lot of just great insight and
background about you, josh, andthere's some similarities I was
kind of as you're telling yourstory.
I can relate to a lot of thatPeople.
I don't really talk about this,but I grew up poor.
Okay, I grew up on food stamps.
My mom was the only income.
(11:35):
My dad I'm sorry but he was alazy bum.
I'll put it out there he atleast was there, but he was
still a ghost father there.
He at least was there, but hewas still a ghost father is what
we call him there but notreally present.
Having people in your life tohelp you get to where you're at.
I joined the military just so Icould go to school.
That's why I joined themilitary.
So we kind of have thatconnection there having the
(11:58):
military.
I was in the reserves.
Actually, I have been to ElPaso.
I have been to el paso.
I've been to the white sandmissile range.
I did a lot of training downthere, so I know the area.
I you know so a lot of thosethings.
When you're talking aboutjuarez and el paso, I started
remembering, oh, white sandmissile range.
We went there about every year.
(12:19):
I've been deployed and you know, I was in the iraqi war of
freedom, so my militarybackground did help me with my
ability and education leadershiplater, and I became a math
teacher.
I was also a pd teacher.
You became a history teacher.
Those subjects are really toughto teach because you, like you
said, you have to bring it alive, you have to make it connect
(12:42):
with the kids.
So when you're in the classroomyou're teaching the kids
history.
What are some things that youlearned as a history teacher
that helped develop theirleadership skills?
Josh Tovar (12:54):
One thing is and I'm glad that you, and thank you
for sharing with me and with theaudience about your family, and
that's what brings us streetcred with kids, because they
need to connect that you were afood stamp kid.
They need to connect that I wasa drunk, you know what, but
that's not who we are now.
That's not what, but you knowwhat.
It's what made us becomesuccessful.
(13:15):
Air quotes what success is?
Because everyone hey, a plumber.
Right now, he's successful.
Let your toilet back up, baby,you're going to pay $100, baby,
hey, my lights go on.
Right now I'm going to callthat electrician and he's going
to charge me whatever the heckhe wants.
That's success.
And so for me, those storiesand the engagement ties all back
(13:40):
to who I was as a student.
So you see, I was a knucklehead, right, I was self-medicating.
I didn't care, I did enoughjust to get the D.
I did enough just to get the Din high school.
So I know that thought process,I know about being mediocre and
(14:05):
living for the minimum standard, and so what that taught me was
coming in as an educator wasdon't put up with nonsense.
They need tough love.
And I just recorded a videobecause I finally read all the
cards.
I started reading all the cardsmy kids wrote me for
Principal's Day, for May the 1st, and a lot of them are like
thank you for being tough.
Thank you for being tough.
It doesn't matter when, as longas you're structured and caring
(14:28):
.
Kids say they don't wantdiscipline, but they love
discipline, they yearn for it,they want it.
They dislike wishy-washy rollercoaster educators and
administrators.
They want you to be consistentwith who you are as an
individual, and that gives youstreet cred.
And I learned one thing You'renot going to mess with me.
You're going to show up on time.
(14:50):
You're going to do what youneed to do.
This is what is expected fromyou and this is what I require.
And I will keep on giving it toyou.
And keep on giving it to youbecause there's certain things
that I'm not good at.
I'm not good at mitosis andmeiosis.
I'm not good at A squared plusB squared equals C squared.
I can't get you through, I suckat that.
But I need someone that willengage me so that I could find a
(15:11):
connection for that.
So it was my job to make surethat I use my past experiences
as a poor student, a poorscholar and make sure that I
engage it along the way, alwaysstart implementing little things
to tell the kid hey man, Idon't know if you're going
through crap at home, I don'tknow if you're going through
divorce like I did.
I don't know if you'reself-medicating, but you know
what?
(15:32):
It's your birthday, and Istarted always honoring the kids
on their birthday, always, andI can't tell you the countless
numbers of times to tell me yourpencil and your card was the
only thing I received for abirthday Little things like that
.
And then I started puttingkids' work on the wall.
Kids' work this was back in thePaleozoic period, you know.
(15:53):
You just start putting stuff upthere, which is now.
It's what is expected forquality and connections with
kids.
And so what I learned was makingsure that kids felt structure,
kids felt appreciated and kidsfelt heard.
Now I'm not going to do whatyou tell me to do.
I got something to do and I'mstill that way right now.
(16:14):
I'm not going to put up withyour nonsense, because you have
a destiny, you have a purpose inlife and it's my job to pull
you, push you, love you alongthe way on that track, whatever
it might be.
So being consistent, beingloving, is what built me up,
because I never had that.
I needed to be the educator.
I never got Back in my highschool.
(16:36):
There was never you know what.
You would hear theannouncements.
You know this the studentcouncil hey, come to student
council today.
I'm like what the hell is that?
I got to go get drunk.
Oh, come.
Hey, the pep rally for the game.
Oh, senior sunrise, oh seniorsunset.
Oh, the thespians areperforming.
I didn't know none of that.
I didn't know the Americanfactory style system Prom
(16:59):
homecoming all of the guard, thelittle things that go around
the garden Nothing, I didn'tknow, none of that.
I would see it.
I wouldn't ask questionsbecause I needed to go
self-medicate.
So it's my job to always nowsay, hey, get involved with this
, you might like this.
I see that you wear this kindof shirt.
How about you try this?
(17:20):
Provide them with theopportunities that a high school
has, that a middle school has,that a middle school has, that
an elementary has, to make themfeel part of what the air quotes
school pride is, because all ofus determine school pride at
different levels, whether it beelementary, middle school and
high school.
So that's what it taught me tobe engaging, loving and
structured and making sure thatI push those kids, whether they
(17:43):
want to or not, to success.
Principal JL (17:46):
Yeah, you say a lot of things in there that are
impactful.
I believe this If kids knowthat you care, they're going to
learn, they're going to do thethings you ask.
Building those relationshipswhen they know you care, because
you take the time to get toknow them, not just when they're
in trouble but when you're justgetting to know them on the
daily.
You know when they're introuble, but when you know
you're just getting to know themon the daily, like, hey, how's
(18:08):
it going?
You know, I like the fist bumpkids in the hallways and you
know, appreciate that they'rethere and say, hey, we want you
to be here, we want you to bewelcome to our school, because
when I showed up at the currentschool I'm at, they didn't want
to be there, so I had to go.
Well, how can we help themunderstand we want them there,
we care about them, because oncethey understand that you care,
(18:29):
they're going to do what'sneeded.
And another thing that youpointed out kids will rise to
the expectations that you set.
So if you set a low bar,they're going to rise to that.
If you set a high bar, they'regoing to rise to that.
And the proof's in the puddingfor me because I've elevated the
bars over the last three yearsat my school and those kids and
(18:52):
those staffers went in.
I'm like, the more we raisethis, the more they're going to
get to that expectation.
Because when I got here they'relike, oh, we're just glad that
they showed up.
Well, I'm not okay with that.
I want them to be here, but weneed to push them to be the best
that they can be.
And so I feel, like a lot ofthose things that you just
(19:14):
talked about, hopefully a lot ofprincipals are understanding
that's a great way to build thatculture and build that
inclusivity with the kids andbuild that relationship so they
will do the things that you needthem to do.
Because, I'm pretty sure,because you build those
relationships and you have thatstory, they can understand where
(19:34):
you're from and, like you said,you built that street cred to
where, when the tough thingshappen, they're going to respect
what you tell them.
Because you built thatrelationship.
And I'll tell you just eventoday there was a kid he's a
duffel head love the kid.
And a coach asked him.
Even today there was a kid he'sa duffelhead Love the kid.
And a coach asked him hey, doyou give Mr Linden a hard time,
(19:57):
he's like no, I respect him toomuch.
And I was like that was amoment where I was like wow, I
mean this kid, you can be a kid,but because I've built up a
relationship with them, herespects when I say this is the
expectation, he just does it,and so I think that was a lot of
(20:18):
good things.
I think your militarybackground kind of showed
through there a little bit,because I have kind of the same
philosophies and ideas as aleader.
So how does the military kindof affect your leadership style
or just your leadership ingeneral?
Josh Tovar (20:34):
as a principal.
I think it's crucial because, ifyou know, the Marines tear you
down to build you back up andthat's why it's an elite force
across the world and it's aboutestablishing structures and
procedures, and you and I knowthis, and every single last
principal across the UnitedStates or the world knows this
(20:57):
If you don't have systems andprocedures in place that are
repetitive, then you're going tohave chaos and anarchy, and I
think that that's one of thosecrucial things that the Marine
Corps did teach me about beingconsistent with your actions and
making sure that you're aperson of your word.
And when you're a person of yourword and you establish this
protocol, it doesn't matter whothey understand what the
(21:18):
expectation is and then howyou're able to make them believe
.
What do I mean by that?
Believe in the vision thatyou're bringing to the table.
And it goes back to again thestreet cred, because then you
know what you need to havestreet cred, because if you
don't have street cred with theadults, they ain't going to be
rowing with you forever, and soif you're not rowing together,
(21:39):
then there's that chaos that Iwas talking about earlier.
Principal JL (21:44):
Yeah, I really appreciate that.
I mean, I could just tell yourmilitary background does
influence, because it doesinfluence me as well.
I actually got to benon-commissioned officer in my
eight years of preserves.
You know, I don't know what didyou?
What was your MOS Fieldartillery I?
Josh Tovar (21:59):
was a cannon cocker.
We were not.
We didn't face any kind ofliterally, I was at the end of
my contract when the firstPersian Gulf started and so we,
the only thing that was that wemobilized.
And you know that in thereserve rank, unless you're
really active then the ranks goup, and so pretty much we were
(22:20):
doing our monthly drill, our twoweeks in the summer.
But it still kept you freshwith the idea and the mentality
of who you are as an individual.
Because there I was, in themiddle of 29 palms grading
papers.
There I was there.
I don't people don't understandwhat the hell I just said, but
yeah, it was weird, all right tobe grading geography papers in
(22:40):
the middle of 29 palms yeah, Iactually finished my eight years
in the reserve before finishingcollege.
Principal JL (22:47):
Because I decided to take the tenure route,
because I didn't, I did.
I was not a non-traditionaleducator.
I did not go into education outof the gate.
It took me a while to figureout what I wanted to do.
I thought I was going to be aphysical therapist at one point,
but I love what I do and I'mglad I found what I found as
well.
So let's talk about yourteacher.
(23:09):
You're teaching history.
You're engaging kids.
You've got history, fred.
You got the street cred.
You've learned some things.
What was the deciding factor togo from teacher to
administrator Can you talk about?
You know what was the moment?
What was you know?
Were you tapped on the shoulder?
Were you encouraged or youdecided this was my next step?
What was it that said, hey, Iwant to become an administrator?
Josh Tovar (23:33):
My first principle.
I was not satisfied with thecondition and I don't try to be
a prima donna or anything, but Iknew that there was such a
thing as free agency back in thePaleozoic era, because if
you're a strong teacher, otherprinciples, sometimes unethical
principals will talk to you andwill tell you hey, you want to
(23:56):
come to my school.
You want to because work getsout.
You know, in districts worksget out right.
And so I decided to leave myfirst month.
This is my 13th place in 32years, 30, 13 organization.
And so people, people want tosay you're unstable?
Yeah, I am, but you know whatCraziness makes us propel
(24:18):
sometimes.
My next principal I was hiredbut he left.
You know how that happens insummer he hired me in summer but
then he left to another school.
And the lady that took over,that's my guardian angel.
I will always speak her name.
And the lady that took over,that's my guardian angel.
I will always speak her name.
There's a handful of ladiesthat have made me who I am, and
she was the very first oneMillie Williams.
(24:40):
Millie Williams, strong woman,strong African-American woman in
my second middle school.
Oh man, you name it that woman,woo, she was snapping left and
right, that lady was a drillinstructor.
She had that school in Shveg,she had it out there.
And then when she saw me, shedidn't hire me.
(25:02):
She didn't hire me, sheinherited me.
I was not her hire and you knowthat's kind of rough, being new
to the school, and the previousdude hired somebody.
You're like, uh, I don't know,that's my cup of tea.
You know the game?
Oh yeah, there's a game outthere amongst administrators.
And then she saw me in actionand she was a proud graduate of
(25:27):
soros state university and shesaid in middle school, if you
know or you don't know, ifyou're a coach for one thing,
you're a coach for every singlelast sport.
If they have marbles, you'rethe coach for JV marbles.
If you've got a hot jumpy rope,then you're the varsity jumpy
rope, whatever it is.
(25:48):
In middle school you do it all.
And she said, coach, I need youto go to school and become an
administrator.
And I'm like, who's this lady?
I was gonna be one of thoseguys that just dies being a
history teacher because I lovedit, right, and I dug some of the
coaching stuff.
But she goes no, you need toget enrolled.
(26:08):
So you know what?
What?
I don't know her.
She didn't hire me, we're justbuilding a relationship back and
forth.
Then the next semester she goesto Alpine, texas that's where
Sol Ross is and she brings meback a catalog and she says I
told you you need to go.
Here's the catalog.
(26:30):
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,okay, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am,
yes, ma'am.
You know, I love her leadership, I love that she called up
people, both kids and adults.
And then the next semester,which was the following year,
she goes I ain't playing withyou, you need to go to school.
Well, I went to school.
She did everything possible toensure that I went to school.
She, she did everythingpossible to ensure that I went
(26:51):
to school.
She changed the master schedulefor me twice.
Let me repeat that again shechanged the master schedule for
me twice.
She created a position for meto make sure that I was able to
do my internship, my internshiphours, and so she created
in-school suspension.
We never had it, we never hadit, but she created it for me so
(27:14):
that I could be also an youknow, the administrative intern.
Without that woman, I am notsitting here talking to you.
Without that woman, milliewilliams, I am not sitting here.
She kept pushing me, andpushing me and setting me up for
success every single lastpossible way, and obviously you
know what that's one of God'sangels sending that purpose in
(27:36):
my life.
She did everything, like Istated, to make sure that I
became an administrator.
Principal JL (27:42):
Wow, that's a powerful story and you know, I'm
really appreciative that shedid push you and she did get you
to where you are at today.
I think as administrators we dohave somebody that helps us see
that path.
Because even for myself, I wasperfectly fine.
I had a football coach and amath teacher.
(28:03):
I had the dream job because Iwas half-time PE, half-time math
and football coach.
I was like this is great.
But it was my wife's grandpathat sat me down, who was a
former administrator.
He's like you could do more, Ilike whenever you know, I was
like I was like yeah, no way.
(28:24):
But that sat with me and thenyears later I said you know what
?
I think he's right.
And then I I went ahead and didthat With getting into your
principalship.
Talk about your firstprincipalship you learned and
just talk about yourprincipalship journey up to
being where you're at today inyour current role.
(28:46):
Just kind of talk about thatprocess and kind of where you
got.
Like you said, you were in your13th, 15th school.
So there's a lot there that Idon't know.
Let's explore it a little bit.
What are some lessons youlearned along the way?
And then you know what you'redoing today at your current
principal.
Josh Tovar (29:04):
Well, that's a lot being being Fred Flintstone here
, so we're going to cut out.
I think that it's crucial thatI address that.
I was an assistant principalfor 13 years.
I was blackballed in my firstdistrict, never to become a
principal.
The politics you know this.
You know there's politics.
(29:26):
That's the way we got to readGlenn Robbins book.
Won't Back Down.
It talks about the dark side ofpolitics and I was part of that
.
I was both on the good side ofpolitics and I've been on the
bad side of politics and for 13years it got to a point to where
I was told you're never goingto be allowed to interview to
become a principal, neverStraight out, and I had too much
(29:49):
time and that's why I tellpeople out there.
Hey, if you're listening tothis, you have to leave.
If you know you're blackballedor you're not given the
opportunity, you have to leave.
Trust me, the grass, you makeit green.
Let me repeat that again youmake the grass green on the
other side.
It's not always green on theother side.
(30:09):
If you think it's going to beready for you, you have to
continue making it green.
And so one of my colleagues thatworked with me in that district
.
She went up the ranks, we werepeers and then she moved up and
she became an areasuperintendent in the
neighboring district.
And again, this is my secondangel, this is my second angel,
(30:31):
carmen Croce.
Without that woman I would havenever been a principal.
She saw that even though I wasblackballed, I never gave up on
kids.
I never stopped busting my assto make sure the kids were
successful.
She saw the work that I did asan assistant principal and then
I was in charge of a medicalmagnet.
And when you work with medicalmagnets, you see I was used to
(30:57):
dealing with all the hardheadedkids, all the Joshes right.
And then all of a sudden myprincipal says you know what?
I need you to take over themedical magnet.
And I'm like I can't deal withthat kid.
Those are the nerds.
I don't know how to deal withthose kids.
There is a mentality.
There is a total differentmentality.
No disrespect, I know it's the21st century, you don't like to
be called nerds.
I apologize, but you know whatI'm talking about.
(31:18):
Yeah, and so the program wasonly breaking in like 100 kids
and for the amount of money,with seven certifications, that
was not good.
You need to bring in more kidsto that program because you're
dropping tons of Carl Perkinsmoney on there.
(31:39):
And so he says I need you to goout there and take charge.
There were some issues going onwith paperwork and MOUs and kids
maintaining the standard and Iwent in, had to revamp the whole
program.
But then I started using socialmedia.
So what you see right now,those were the early stages of
Josh on social media.
(31:59):
So when I took over, with thehelp of the Bel Air staff and,
most importantly, the Bel AirHighlander kids, we started
recruiting literally all overthe city of El Paso I will go to
the border of New Mexico andtry to recruit those kids and
that enrollment went up from 100kids to 165.
(32:22):
I brought in extra 65 kids fortwo years.
You know how hard that is, butyou know what I did was that I
did the brain drain and all thehigh schools hated that.
What I did was that I did thebrain drain and all the high
schools hated that, because allthose smart kids that were
eighth graders, that were to goup to their feeder pattern, I
took them and so that angeredthem, and so when Ms Cross saw
(32:42):
everything that was going on,she would see what I would be
putting out on social media.
She says hey, josh, I want youto come over to my alma mater
and you need to interview, butright now there are two
principals running it.
The quietness is for effect.
Two principals of a 6A highschool with 2,550 kids.
(33:07):
There's constant fights.
There's a drug house right nextto the parking lot.
It is the lowest graduationrate.
It is the worst letter gradehigh school in the district and
I think you got what it takes tocome and turn it around.
So I said, why not, let's go?
(33:28):
So I went from a medical magnetkit with man.
We just turned that programaround.
Kids were gettingcertifications from EdTech to
Fluid Botany, to LDN.
I mean it was beautiful.
Then I go back to what I'm usedto, you know, to the Joshes,
and she allowed me to get myfoot in the door.
(33:50):
So I'm very appreciative ofMillie Williams and Carmen Croce
.
I will always speak their namebecause through them they gave
me the glory to pass on the bigvision and at that campus where
I became a principal for thefirst time I think that was 2016
.
And we turned it around thanksto the hard work of our team
(34:12):
members, every single less thecustodians, the cafeteria
workers, security, our team%,lower socioeconomic, all poor,
all Hispanic, an area where it'snot supposed to be successful.
(34:40):
In three years, thosehardworking teachers raised it
from a D minus to a B minus.
Let me repeat that again 2,550kids went from a D that was the
lowest, full of fights, full ofweed, full of low attendance to
(35:02):
a B with distinctions.
It went from an 88% graduationrate when our administration
walked in to a 92% when I left,when COVID hit.
That was done in three yearsand it could be done as long as
you always accentuate thepositive, that you care about
kids and they know that you'recaring about them and, most
(35:25):
importantly, that you establishstructures and protocols that
everyone follows and you holdeveryone responsible, starting
with me, starting with the mainchair, because if the main chair
is not role modeling, theexpectation, then it will never
happen, because people will callyou out, people will say that
you're a phony baloney and theywill not follow your vision.
And so that's where I becamethe principal.
(35:48):
And then you know what I think.
You understand this, and a lotof the people that hear my next
conversation.
There's something about sittingin the main chair that really
creates divorce.
It creates problems in yourhouse your personal house is a
principal.
It creates friction with yoursignificant other, with your
(36:12):
wife, whatever it might be,because you're at your events
and not at your family's events.
I was raising other people'skids and ignoring my kids.
I would be going to bi-districtarea regional quarterfinals.
I would be gone every weekend,because the only way you turn
(36:33):
around a school is by alwaysbeing everywhere.
My job was seven days a week.
I will be putting 15, 16 hoursper day because you need to be
seen visible in the classroom,in the hallway, in the lunchroom
, at the softball game, at theorchestra, at the flags, at the
underwater basket weaving,whatever it might be, you need
(36:54):
to be there.
And so, again, god send meanother angel.
And they said there's a schoolhere in North Dallas and we
think you're going to be theright fit for it.
It's a school with immigrants.
Hey, that's me.
I have to learn English, I'm animmigrant, and it's kids that
(37:17):
will drop out, it's kids thatwould fail in high school.
Hey, that's me.
There are no UIL activities,there is no accountability and
whenever you're done, you'redone.
So now, overall, I went frombeing in a school 24-7, coming
(37:40):
to North Dallas, to a schoolwhere I'm home by 5 o'clock
every day raising my kids.
I've not missed anything.
More often than not now I'mhere with my kids, whatever
their celebrations are, whateverit might be, as compared to
before they were.
Third, I am ashamed of sayingthat it does bother me that my
(38:03):
wife had to hold the house down.
It does bother me.
You know much respect to herfor doing that, for having that
ability to maintain thehousehold, because I would have
to put both my health, theschool and then my family in
that order, because if I'm noton tip-top shape then the school
is not going to be running.
And my focus was that, marineCorps, stick to your protocols,
stick to what you have to do.
(38:24):
So I got tired pretty much ofnot being with mine and I had
recently had a brand new baby,and that's when COVID happened.
And so I know disrespect toanybody out there at all.
You know much love to you.
I'm not saying it happened, nothappened.
No one talks about COVIDanymore.
No one talks about whateverhappened back then.
(38:44):
But for our family, for theTawars, it was a great time
Because when the shutdownhappened I was running the
school from El Paso in Dallas.
I was in El Paso but running aschool in Dallas from El Paso,
and my family and I, we bonded.
I raised my baby.
(39:04):
I raised my baby, I saw my baby, I smelled him, he pooped on me
, all that stuff that goes withbeing.
We would do family walks, wewould do all that.
So COVID pretty much brought ustogether because we were never
really a unit.
And so now I'm here at MemorialPathway Academy in Garland, the
(39:25):
Garland, usa, and it's amagical place.
And again, coming here, therewere so many things that needed
rewiring.
There were so many changes andexpectations because, like I
mentioned, they would send kidsto Memorial Pathway Academy.
Just get them out of here, justgraduate them.
The lowest expectation Academy.
They would just get them out ofhere, just graduate them.
(39:46):
The lowest expectation was 22credits, just get them out.
You know they never go toschool.
They're here to sell drugs,they're here to ditch whatever.
Just graduate them.
And then the newcomers justteach them whatever you know,
just you know.
Try to get some English inthere, I go.
That's not fair, I wouldn'tlike that.
That's not what I expect.
(40:07):
And so up until this last yearwe've turned, you know, our team
members in the classroom, oursecretary, our paraprofessionals
.
Obviously, I've gone from alittle city that I ran every day
, close to 3,000 people, down to450.
Not that much, just a littleenclave as compared to what that
(40:29):
is.
But it's turned around.
Kids are graduate.
There are more kids nowgraduating on the actual
graduation advance plan likeeverybody else.
They're all graduating withccmr.
Our eb students are leaving ourhome practicing, practicing
speaking English and they'reprepared for their comprehensive
schools.
(40:50):
Last year we just did the dataand I'll share this because I
don't think a lot of people atmy school listen, because it's
part of my PD.
All last year I think we maxedout at 472 kids and we have
sixth grade to seniors.
I've got 10-year-olds to20-year-olds in one building,
I've got them separated by threehallways and with all those
(41:13):
things we had a total of 60referrals in the whole year.
Six zero 60.
And they were mainly for cellphone and just falling asleep in
class.
Wouldn't you like to have thatas an issue?
Wouldn't you like to have that?
I had no fights.
I had some shoving by 6thgraders.
(41:34):
You know how that goes.
You know how 6th graders are.
I had no major fights.
I had no girl fights.
I had some vapes.
We averaged out .34 referralsper day 0.34.
What is that?
It's a joke.
There were weeks that kidswould.
We would have weeks that notone hallway would send a
(41:57):
referral.
So it's all based on thoseprocedures and they're all based
on love and caring, making surethat the kid feels connected
with the educator, making surethat the kid feels connected
with the building and makingsure that the parents, when they
drop off their child, they knowthat they're being loved.
Principal JL (42:16):
I think you've covered a lot of things.
It's really interesting kind ofhow you had people in your life
that kind of put you in aposition to show you know what I
can do this, and then you knowwhat I can do this, and then you
know what you are doing.
A really good job.
Let's try you at this.
And then you succeeded.
And I think you bring somethingup that we all go through as
administrators, where there wedo put our families, you know,
(42:39):
behind our career A lot of thetimes, especially when you get
new to it and you feel likeyou've got to do everything, but
then you get like I'm eightyears in as a principal, I'm
going into my.
I'm just finished my seventhyear as a principal, going into
my 19th year overall.
In education I've had to learnyou know what.
(43:00):
There's times where, hey, myjob comes, that's what I'll do,
but then I have to learn to shutthat off.
And when I'm with my family,I'm there.
I think the best advice I'veever had was be present where
your feet are at.
So if you're at your schooldoing your job, you're doing it
to the best of your ability.
You're at home with your family.
You're being with your familyto the best of your ability.
(43:21):
I think we all struggle withthat as administrators because
even when, when you're like forme and you as a high school
principal, you feel like, oh mygosh, you know for me to turn
this around or to get where Iwant it to go, I got to do this,
I got to do that, and then youjust overdo it and you can't
keep up on it.
So I really appreciate how youshare that struggle, because we
(43:44):
all we all go through it.
It all takes us time to figureout how to manage that, so our
families don't feel neglectedwhen you're in this role as well
.
Josh Tovar (43:54):
And let me just say this and I know you've heard
some of my podcasts and I'm veryhonest and everything If you
want to do an effective job, Ican tell you there is no such
thing as life-work balance.
If you choose to interview fora school that's a D or an F, you
better make sure you talk toyour partner first.
(44:16):
Make sure you tell them hey,I'm going to interview and it's
a tough school and I won't behere for a lot of days.
I'm not going to be here forbirthdays.
You better have thatconversation before you go to
the interview, because if youdon't have that conversation,
that's going to create thedivorce, because in the end, if
you suck as a principal andthey're hiring you to go fix a
(44:39):
not good school and you're notgood, then that means your
career just went down the toilet.
You'll be blackballed andyou'll never get another chance
as an administrator.
You know what I'm talking about.
They'll put you back in theclassroom.
There's a lot of incidents outthere that principals become
classroom teachers again, and soit's very important that you
(44:59):
know what you're gettingyourself into.
I'm sorry, I hear it.
I don't agree.
I, josh, josh, everyone isgoing to agree with it.
Everyone is going to agree withit.
But there is no such thing aslife to work balance.
If you want to raise a lowperforming environment, you have
to really put in the time forthat to happen.
And then what sucks about itand I think you know this what
(45:23):
sucks about it is that once youmake it high, the hard part is
keeping it at that level.
So people would say, oh, I'mwalking into a B, I'm walking
into an A campus.
Oh, baby, you better havebetter walked into a D.
Because the thing is, if theguy before you left a B and you
drop it to a C or you drop it toa D, uh-uh, baby, that's you.
(45:45):
If you walked into an A and itgoes to a B, woo, oh, but I have
life work balance.
Oh, no, I turn off my cellphone on Saturdays.
Oh, I don't send emails, Idon't read emails.
Fine, but for a reaction thereis an equal reaction.
Yeah, you just understand thatif it's a needy school, you're
(46:07):
going to need the leader and youalways need to role model the
expectation.
Principal JL (46:12):
No, and I think I agree with that.
I think you, as a leader, gotto role model the expectations
you have, because if you don'tlike you said, they'll call you
out and they ain't going tofollow, or they're not going to
follow, a leader that isn'tgoing to hold themselves to the
expectation you're asking themto do.
And I always tell my staff I'mnever going to ask you to do
(46:32):
anything that I haven't done orI won't be willing to do myself,
and so I will never ask morethan I would ever do for myself.
So I think that's important forleaders to know out.
There is don't ask more ofpeople that you wouldn't do
yourself.
So if you do that, I thinkyou're in a good place.
I think we talk about work-lifebalance.
(46:53):
The reality is, if you arebeing the best person who are at
the place that you are.
So if you're being dad, be thebest dad you can be at that time
.
If you're being a husband, bethe best husband at that time,
or wife or, you know,grandparent or whatever.
If, then, when you're in theprincipal role, you're being the
(47:14):
best principal while you're atthat job, because you're never
going to be able to make it 5050.
It's not going to happen.
There's times of the year whereyou're just going, going, going
and the school leaders thatroll, and then there's times
like, hey, I was able to take,you know, some time off and I
was able to spend it with myfamily and do those things and
(47:34):
you know you have to learn like,okay, this is when I am present
in here and so I think, beingthe best, you can be where your
feet are at, I think is the bestadvice that I could give
somebody in this role, becauseyou're never going to be, you
know, 50, 50 on anything, ever,probably more like six.
If you get the 75, 25, you'redoing all right, you know.
(47:57):
But at the same time, you knowI really appreciate just your
journey and everything thatyou've done.
What is the biggest lessonyou've learned as an
administrator that you couldhelp other administrators
thinking about getting into thisrole?
What is something that you say?
I think you've talked about alot of it, but maybe kind of.
(48:18):
You know you talk about culture.
You talk about, you know,discipline.
You talk about expectations.
Culture you talk about, youknow discipline.
You talk about expectations,what and systems.
What is something that you said?
You know?
This is probably it's allimportant, but I think is really
important, if you're coming into be in a principal, that you
need to know about being aprincipal A few things.
Josh Tovar (48:40):
Number one when your team members get dressed in the
morning, eat breakfast andthey're walking to their car and
they have their keys in theignition, do they say I got to
go to work or do they say, allright, I'm going to work?
(49:00):
Are you setting up a goodenvironment for those people
going to work?
Are you setting up a goodenvironment for those people
when your kids, your students,your scholars go to your campus?
Do they feel safe?
Would you want your kid, youyour DNA?
Principal, assistant principal,would you want your kid in
(49:22):
every teacher's class?
Let me repeat that again haveyou created something in your
campus that you could put yourown DNA in every teacher's class
?
What you do to celebrate kids,would you like it?
As a dad, as a mom, do you evendo anything to celebrate the
(49:46):
child and not make it only aboutthe learning?
What is going out there?
What is your vision?
Your vision has to cover yourbabies, your scholars, their
parents, so that they leave youalone, and your team members, so
that they leave you alone andyour team members.
If your vision encompasses allof those three parts, then
(50:11):
you'll be okay.
If you're able to go to aconference and not get a phone
call, you're doing good.
If you're able to go to centraloffice to a training and never
get a call from security, froman AP, from a teacher, you're
doing good.
If you're worried aboutsomething happening at your
school, you're not doing good.
(50:32):
You don't have systems in placethat will give you peace of
mind.
Let me tell you, when I go toconferences, like I went to
during school time I think Iwent to North Carolina Middle
School Conference, which Isuggest everyone go this year I
didn't worry about it.
I didn't worry about it at all.
When I take off to take my kidsnow I get to take my kids to
(50:54):
doctor's appointments I call insick and I take my babies.
No one calls me because there'sprocedures, systems in place.
And if someone calls me fromthe school, it better be
Hiroshima.
And let me tell you, knock onfake wood, I've established
enough wherever I'm at, where Idon't get calls at all
(51:18):
whatsoever.
So, educator out there thatwants to sit in the chair, does
your vision cover 360, thosethree groups?
Do they want to be at yourschool?
Would you have your kids atthat school and do you honor and
celebrate everybody to wherethey feel comfortable?
Now, don't get me wrong.
You're always going to havehurt people, hurt people, hurt
(51:44):
people and it doesn't matter.
You can never make everyonehappy.
I've learned that in so manyschools.
Do you know who the weebies are?
Principal JL (51:53):
Have you heard of the weebies?
The weebies.
Explain the weebies.
The weebies.
Josh Tovar (51:57):
Guys, there's a group and Coach Hurt Coach Hurt,
who's part of the FantasticFour, which is part of our
podcast system, he calls them Mrand Mrs Potato Plant.
I call them the weebies.
Those are those ankle bitersthat every school has, and you
know what they say we be herebefore you, we be here after you
.
We ain't going to do what yousay.
(52:18):
So everyone has those weebies.
Don't worry about the weebies,don't worry about Mr or Mrs
Potato Plant.
Worry about honoring yourscholars and making sure that
you're that light that they need, that you're that lighthouse
that inspires them.
You're that person, thatindividual, that vision that
makes sure that they'll walk onfire for you.
(52:38):
And if you do that, then youknow what?
In 15 years, when you're atSubway and you've got shades on
and you have no makeup and youstink, one of your scholars is
going to go up to you andthey're going to say hey, tobar,
is that you?
Tobar?
You have a cap on, you're notdressed normally.
And I say, yeah, tobar, becauseof you, you changed my life.
(53:03):
That school changed my life.
That school changed my life.
Thank you, drop mic.
You've made a difference.
Principal JL (53:10):
And I think those are the moments we live for as
educators, right, where youdon't get those things in the
moment.
Those things come year down theroad.
I've had students that I'vecoached or I've taught as well
as being a person.
I've had people write meletters, shoot me a quick DM on
(53:31):
Facebook just saying, hey,because of your leadership or
what you've done, thank you,this is where I'm at today and
because of these things.
So those are the most rewardingparts about this.
These are things you don't getin the moment, but they're
things that you get 5, 10, 15,20 in your case, 33 years down
(53:54):
the road.
You're going to get those,those moments where someone's
going to tell you hey, Iappreciate the things you've
done because it helped me get towhere I'm at today, and so I
think those are very impactfulthings to understand as well,
maybe when you're in the job andyou're thinking, oh my gosh, am
I making a difference?
(54:14):
Like you said, if you havesystems in place and you have
the right people, you put agreat teacher in front of those
students and you help them begreat, and those students and
you're impacting studentseverywhere you go, it's going to
matter and you just won't knowit until later.
I think that's a great way tokind of make some great advice
(54:35):
for people out there thinkingabout the chair.
So we talked about thefantastic floor.
You talked about the podcasting.
You are a fellow podcaster aswell.
It's called the PGP Podcast.
Now, for those that don't know,what does PGP mean?
Josh Tovar (54:53):
PGP Podcast Puras Ganas Podcast.
Puras Ganas.
You know what?
There are not a lot of Hispanicpodcasts out there that are
education-based.
You know that.
Trust me, I look for them.
I have yet to find one.
If you're an educator, I don'tmean to do tribes at all, I
(55:13):
don't.
I don't mean to separatebecause I see everything.
You know that I watch they leadme a podcast.
But you know what?
There's a certain niche andcertain conversations that you
do have with Hispanic kids.
You know that.
Oh yeah, you know that you workwith those kids in Nebraska.
You know what I'm talking about.
(55:34):
There's a certain kind ofdialogue, a certain kind of
verbal connection.
We talk about papusas orenchiladas, or the chancla or
the fly swatter or whatever itis, or the chancla or the fly
swatter or whatever it is.
There's certain connectionsthat you make as educators that
bring that inspiration of beingthat loving person that is the
provider of knowledge for kids,and so it's a term that we
(55:59):
always use as Hispanics andthat's where we got the name
from.
Puras ganas is a term, phraseused by Hispanics all over the
Western Hemisphere, and we'repart of a group of four
podcasters, so the very firstone is Coach Hurt.
These are all Facebook Live,coach Hurt.
(56:20):
If you need help with data, thatguy, he talks it.
I understand it, but he talksit like he talks good, you know
how.
There's Texas laws and thenthere's federal laws and Texas
do their own nonsense and thosedarn red states right.
And then there's federalguidelines If you need help on
how to break down your data andyour core tiles and your sim
(56:43):
tiles and the oop tiles,whatever it is, core service
were man.
Then after that, at 10 30,you've got chica and tammy, the
doctors, and what they do isthat they talk about how to turn
around a school.
Those two ladies were about toget fired.
They were told pick up theschool or you're out.
So they they created aframework, the real framework.
(57:06):
What is the real framework?
You got to find out.
Tune in at 1030 and they willeducate you on how to create
those steps and those protocols.
Our third program is El Jefe,principal Baruti.
Kafele, principal Kafele.
If I need to say anything aboutthat, then you've been under a
rock, but you've got to listento him at 1055.
(57:28):
Those are the three programsand we're the anchor.
We're the anchor on Sundays at4 pm Central, but once football
starts.
We're going to move it up to 5pm Because I know football is
king across the United States.
So we're all the same but we'retotally different.
We all love kids, we allinspire adults or look to
(57:51):
inspire them, but we all have adifferent niche.
We all do Our show.
Platforms are totally differentbut the same.
I don't know if that makessense, but that's what bonds us
together.
We are a group of educatorsthat provide you with Free PD.
Principal JL (58:08):
Free PD.
And let's talk about that FreePD because, josh, you listen to
multiple podcasts and I know, asa podcaster, when you have
people out there promoting yourpodcast, it means a lot and I
appreciate the listening anddoing that.
But you listen to multiple.
I mean, if it's an education,you're listening to it, you're
(58:31):
doing reviews, you're sharing itout and, to be honest, I have
actually followed you onFacebook and LinkedIn and so I
see your post and I go, hey,that sounds like an interesting
podcast.
I'm going to go check that outfor myself.
And you always talk about, youknow, free PD, no excuses.
What inspired you to do that?
(58:52):
What is the reasoning behind?
You know, in my, in my, mysense, you're lifting up other
educators and helping you knowwith their networking abilities,
because, I will tell you,people are downloading my show
even more since you've done thatand I see the effects of it
just in my downloads.
But what has caused you?
(59:14):
What inspires you to do that?
Because I know it's appreciated, I love them and I love the
reviews that you put out forpeople's episodes.
Well, thank you.
Josh Tovar (59:23):
That's very kind.
You know what.
I truly believe that ironsharpens iron, and there's a
certain thing that happens toeducators, to administrators
after 30 years, a lot of themthink that they know it all or
they're already tapped out.
And I cannot do that.
I can't become stagnant water.
That would be such a failure orlack of respect for the people
(59:46):
that believed in me.
I could never become thatindividual that says I'm at the
end, I don't care, I can't.
I could, I've established agood pattern, I've established
success.
But you know what?
That's cheating my current kid,and I refuse to do that Because
a lot of people cheated me whenI was going up, and so I like
(01:00:09):
listening to educators.
I need to learn what's going on.
The person that started all thisand he'll be on the show is
Fonz, my EdTech Life.
So it all started with Corona.
We all started podcasting.
Everyone started podcasting,and you had nothing to do but
was to walk, do take-in, deliverat your house and listen to
(01:00:33):
shows, watch TV.
And I listened to Fonz and I'mlike, oh, this is pretty cool,
this is pretty cool, all right,all right.
And so then just startedlistening, but I wouldn't repost
or anything like that.
So much, much respect, muchlove to Fonz, who was the first
person to get me hooked intothis.
(01:00:54):
Obviously, there's a lot ofnational podcasters out there
that connect with you, but inregards to the field of
education, he was the one.
Then one day there was ChrisSarcheski and Dean Packard.
They started a podcast foreducators.
It was called Unlock the Middleand they would call me every
once in a while to be part oftheir panel to talk.
(01:01:17):
One day he just said hey,you're a turnaround principal.
You want to be on the show.
I'm like you know, you get thiswhen you call people for the
first time.
They're like me.
Why would you want to meet?
And I thought nothing of it.
And from that moment on, forlike around, I think, two years,
I was an unlock the middle withhim and your question to me was
(01:01:37):
well, why do you share it andreview it?
Because I thought we did tonsof great shows with them, but I
wouldn't get any.
We wouldn't get.
You know, we don't get feedbacksometimes and we want to know.
I didn't hear you on your showsay hey, you like this?
Let me know.
Hey, guys, when we ask you aspodcasters, it's not about ego
or vanity, we just know thatCoach Hurd says are we talking
(01:02:00):
good?
Are you getting anything out ofthis?
Are you becoming a betterversion of yourself with
listening to these words?
And so I said you know what?
Obviously, as I said earlier, Ineed to role model the
expectations, right?
So again, I got to practicewhat I preach.
So at that moment I startedhearing podcasts, I started
doing, you know, just a littlepicture of what I was seeing,
(01:02:22):
and just heard the show, listento it, but that's so on a scale
of one to five.
That's so nonsense, right.
So then how can I engage people?
That's what we tell our kids todo when they write prompts,
right.
What can we tell to engage thereader?
And so then I started doingthat, doing a summary of what I
heard and just posting it outthere.
(01:02:43):
And then, when you hear that,then you start seeing other
podcasters appear on your feed,right.
And if you see the same guestand you follow them somewhere
else, oh, I like what they said,let me hear them again with
this other person.
Are they faking the funk?
Are they putting on the show oris it really them?
And then you review it.
And so then I just got intothat, but then that also became
(01:03:06):
a great pattern for me, again,part of my life, and I'm sure
that you know this.
I wake up early in the morning,at 3.30 every morning, to go to
the gym.
So I'm at the gym by 4.15.
And along the way, while I'mdrinking my supplements, while
I'm driving to the gym, whileI'm out there, it allows me to
focus on what my vision is andbeing prepared for the first
(01:03:27):
when I go to school.
So I put those reviews outthere.
Number one for the hard work.
Hey, everybody out there,everybody that does a podcast.
It is very time consuming.
We're not getting any financial.
We're not getting Joe Roganmoney.
We're not getting Bill Mahermoney.
None of us are getting anymoney.
We're not getting Bill Mahermoney.
None of us are getting anymoney.
All I'm letting you know isthat we do it because we want
(01:03:49):
our beautiful profession tobecome the best version of
itself, especially with theexodus that's going on.
We have so many administratorscoming up that shouldn't be
administrators, but because somany are leaving, we have so
many outstarts out there that wedon't have the money either to
send people to training or thetime.
So these are the great thingsthat we need to use.
(01:04:12):
So if you listen to a podcast,just like it and share it Like
this one, it's not out of vanityand it's not about being
jealous of somebody else.
It's nothing it's about.
Did we learn from each other?
Did we do a good job that canhelp another person?
So I think that the best thingthat I could do to help your
podcast, to help fons, isbarbara bray, I mean, you know,
(01:04:35):
the lini goes on.
Tony katani, I listen, I listen.
I think I think I'm at 18 rightnow that I alternate there and
pepper.
I mean I listen to that andthen what am I in the mood for?
And then I just review it.
So I listen to it.
I try to listen to three everyday, unless they're one hour,
like dave bridges.
Podcasts are an hour.
That takes up most of myworkout time.
(01:04:56):
But I learned a lot from davebridges.
So you put those things outthere and if I got something out
of it and I'm an old fart oil,I'm a dinosaur Then maybe you,
of course, your principal.
I can guarantee you you couldget something out of that.
That's right.
Principal JL (01:05:14):
But I appreciate it.
You said a lot of really greatthings there.
I think the free PD is like ifyou even listen to my intro I
talk about this is professionaldevelopment.
My goal for the podcast is togive something to other
administrators to help them.
That's the heart, that's themission.
I bring on guests to go.
(01:05:35):
Hey, what can we learn from thisguest?
How can we connect ourselves?
Because, as principals, thiscould be a lonely job.
You could be isolated.
Yeah, you may have assistantprincipals, but when you're at
the top, you're the buildingprincipal and you are in charge
of that building.
It's not the assistantprincipal that's going to get in
trouble, it's you.
(01:05:56):
You got to be the one that hasto.
You know your foot is going tobe held to the fire, so you have
to make sure that you're doingthe best you can.
Going to be held to the fire,so you have to make sure that
you're doing the best you can do.
It Do right by your assistantprincipals, everybody that you
are working with andcollaborating with, and so
(01:06:18):
that's why I do it.
It took me a while to really beconsistent with it, and that's
something that I've gotten waybetter at.
But you know what I wouldn't behere talking to Josh Tabar
without this podcast.
I wouldn't be learning from himtoday and his journey in
education, and I wouldn't learnfrom Darren Pepper and I
wouldn't learn from Tony Catani.
These are people that I havelistened to as well, as you know
(01:06:39):
putting out a content for otherpeople.
It's not about me.
I really care less about myself.
I care about helping othersthat are in this seat because
there's I think we're gettingmore of it and it's really great
to see.
But when I started podcastingthere wasn't a lot out there,
and so I think it's grown overthe last three, four years and I
(01:07:01):
think it's great, and it'sgreat way to stay connected.
When you are in the seat at yourschool and you could be that
small rural school like I wasthere's not a lot of networking
you can do out in a foreignfield of a school.
You know you've got to havesome way to get connected and
network with other educators andyou have to be able to do it on
(01:07:22):
a daily.
That's where podcasts, I think,are a really great tool to do
that.
So thank you, josh, for that.
And so, man, this has been agreat conversation.
Time has flown by.
I've learned so much from you,and just your path, your journey
, where you're at.
So you know, Josh, what are youup to today?
(01:07:43):
People want to reach out andget connected with you.
How can they reach out?
I'll put your information inthe show notes for that.
And what is the best advice youcould give educational leaders
before we end the show today?
Josh Tovar (01:07:57):
Reach out, steal everything that I put out on
social media.
Take it, make it yours.
If you need me to help you withsome logos or some stuff, I'll
show you what apps I use.
I've been doing culture stuffalready all summer.
I've been sending out stuff tokids, to teachers.
(01:08:29):
I've been doing all that outthere Because I rather spend
time front load Love.
So when you come in, youalready know that the Linus
Blanket is waiting for you.
So reach out to me Whatever youneed.
You want to be a guest on thePGP podcast?
Come on over.
I'm already booking forSeptember.
Come on over, tell me what youdo.
(01:08:51):
We'll find a niche, we'll putyou in there.
But, most importantly, if youwant to visit our home, come on
over.
If you're in Texas, hey, youwant to come over from Nebraska?
Come on over.
You know what we have.
10 districts visit us last year,10.
They left awestruck on thepedagogy that's implemented at
(01:09:16):
Memorial Pathway Academy forkids from Pakistan, from Africa,
from Vietnam, from all CentralSouth America, to those kids
that are teen parents, thosekids that are 19 with three
credits.
That's who is MPA.
And I know you, you educator.
I know you have that and youknow what this is where magic is
(01:09:39):
made.
The true Disneyland is nolonger in Florida and California
, it is at MPA.
So come on over, copy the stuffthat we have and visit us.
You open door.
I don't put a dog and pony showon.
You know, you've been to thoseschools where you visit that
same classroom.
Uh-huh, come on, I don't.
I just set up a structure andsay what do you want to see?
(01:10:00):
And we're just going to walk in.
I never tell anybody other thanthe clerks we might have guests
tomorrow.
That way some strangers come in.
You know we got to do thebackground check and the whole
ID stuff, but other than that Idon't tell anybody.
I say, hey, they might be onconference.
We're just going to walk intothe classroom and I want you to
see this and see this and makesure you check for their exit
(01:10:21):
tickets.
Everyone, wherever you walk in,they see that the kids are
engaged, they see that there'sno cell phones out, they see
that there's bell-to-bellinstruction.
So if you want to see that youhave an open invitation to come
to Memorial Pathway Academy andif you want to know a little bit
of our story, I wrote about itin Barbara Bray's book Grow your
(01:10:42):
why?
Chapter 23,.
I am the last chapter.
They save the best for lastbaby.
That's MPA.
If you want to find out how youturn a school from a D to a B
if you want to turn around aschool like MPA, this is where
you find out about it.
I wrote about it.
Reach out, I'm here for you.
Iron sharpens iron.
Principal JL (01:11:03):
Hey, I appreciate you being on the show today,
josh.
I appreciate all the insightsyou have and the work you're
doing and how you're impactingeducation in a positive light.
Thank you for being on the showtoday, gracias.
What a great episode with JoshTovar.
Josh shared his powerfuljourney with personal insights
(01:11:25):
on how he got into education,his time in the US Marine Corps
to leading schools with heart,purpose and relentless focus on
relationships.
His message is a reminder thatleadership is about connection,
being authentic and service toothers.
If you're not already followingJosh, be sure to check out the
PGP podcast and follow his workon social media.
(01:11:49):
His energy is contagious andhis insights are invaluable.
If this episode resonated withyou, please share it with others
who need to hear it.
Until next time, be 1% better.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com