Episode 41: Creating Bull Elephants with 2025 Nebraska High School Principal of the Year: Jerry Mack

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When a rural Nebraska principal discovered a behavioral problem with freshmen students, he turned to an unlikely source of inspiration: African bull elephants. Jerry Mack, the 2025 Nebraska State High School Principal of the Year, shares how this wildlife management concept transformed his school's culture by empowering seniors as leaders and mentors.

Growing up poor in small-town Nebraska, Jerry initially entered education simply to coach sports, but discovered a passion for teaching mathematics and eventually leadership. His innovative "bull elephant" approach began with a powerful first-day assembly where he positions seniors as the leaders of the building, then privately coaches them on using their influence responsibly. The results speak volumes – significantly reduced disciplinary issues and a thriving culture where underclassmen eagerly anticipate their future leadership roles.

Beyond student culture, Jerry shares his philosophy on staff culture, viewing it through the lens of family rather than hierarchy. "Families fight," he explains, but those disagreements stay within the building while support extends beyond school walls. This balance of accountability and care has created a tight-knit community at Chadron High School over his 15-year tenure as principal.

The conversation also explores the importance of educational advocacy, with both Jerry and the host sharing their experiences engaging with state legislators to ensure educators' voices are heard in policy decisions. For aspiring administrators, Jerry offers invaluable advice: "The principal is the number one factor that influences culture in a building," emphasizing that consistent messaging and intentional leadership can transform an entire school community.

Connect with Jerry through Chadron High School to learn more about his leadership approaches and how you might adapt them for your educational setting. What leadership strategies could you implement to transform your school's culture?

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Episode Transcript

Principal JL (00:03):
Today we have a very exciting guest on the
podcast, mr Jerry Mack.
He has 33 years in educationand 15 years as the principal of
Chadron High School.
Jerry is also the 2025 NebraskaState High School Principal of
the Year.
I first met Jerry over a phonecall about a potential hire.

(00:25):
Then we ran into each other atthe educational advocacy
workshop this past summer andour paths just keep crossing.
In this episode we talk abouthis journey in education, about
bull, elephants and a littleHusker football.
Now let's get to theconversation with Mr Jerry Mack.

(00:48):
Welcome everybody back toanother exciting episode of the
Educational Leadership Podcast.
Today in the house I have MrJerry Mack.

(01:11):
Jerry, welcome to the show.

Jerry Mack (01:14):
Oh, thanks for having me on.
Yeah, we bump into each otherover a phone call.
I was trying to hire a teacherthat you had a reference on, and
that's how it all started, andit seems like our paths just
keep crossing.
So I'm excited to you know, beon and share a little bit with
your podcast.
I really enjoyed listening toepisodes.

Principal JL (01:35):
Awesome, Jerry.
Well, I'm going to go ahead.
I'm going to ask the samequestion.
I ask everybody on the podcastwhy did you become an educator?
What inspired you to get intoeducation?

Jerry Mack (01:50):
Truth is, I remember probably being in sixth grade.
I grew up in a small town incentral Nebraska, a little town
of 1300, maybe 1500 people.
We were poor, we were the freelunch kid.
We lived in city owned housing,this little brick house on the
edge of town, and my backyardneighbor had a house.

(02:12):
That's where my buddy lived andI just remember thinking as a
young kid, like man, he's got anice house, they had a
basketball hoop outside, theyhad concrete driveway to dribble
the basketball on, even.
And I didn't have that.
And his dad was a math teacherand a basketball coach.
And my young, immature brainjust said well, apparently if

(02:33):
you want good things, you needto be a math teacher and a
basketball coach.
And, believe it or not, thatwas the start.
And by the time I was 16, I waspretty convinced I loved high
school.
I was involved in allactivities, clubs, you name it,
and so when you're, when you'repoor, you hang out at school.
You don't want to go home whereyou don't have much, and so you

(02:55):
just stay at school, you getinvolved in activities, and
that's what I did and and I justthought I just enjoyed high
school and so, probably like anygood principal.
I went into this field to be acoach and from there I found out
I love teaching, I love beingaround kids.
Things made sense to me.

(03:15):
I did not have any plans to bea principal.
I was asked to apply for thisposition.
I was teaching in this schoolfor nine years and coaching, and
that was a hard decision for me, spending a week trying to
decide whether I really wantedto throw my name in the hat to
be a principal.
And what I found out is it'sjust such an important job and

(03:40):
what we can do for kids and theprincipal does create and can
set the tone for the culture ina building, even though the
teachers and the coaches are theones that really do the work
and build the relationships andget your philosophies across.
And so I just found out, I kindof rolled into it that way and

(04:01):
it's just been an importantposition.
I am a school dad to about 250to 300 kids a year and that's
how I view the job is.
I view it from a spot of lovewhere I'm a dad to kids and
trying to help those out, and Ithink it's a.
It's a job where it allows meto you know how it is as a

(04:21):
principal, the the star athletedoesn't probably need you.
It's the kid.
It's the quiet kid in thecorner.
It's the kid with, maybe,disabilities.
It's a kid with behaviors.
It's a kid with some childhoodtrauma, that has struggles in a
traditional setting and I justfound out that I think I have a

(04:41):
love for that just to be therefor those kids and the
importance of that role.

Principal JL (04:47):
Yeah, that's great .
You kind of remind me a littlebit of myself growing up.
I'll be honest, I did not growup with a lot.
I grew up poor and I kind ofhad the same thought.
But I also didn't want to be ateacher.
I wasn't the first thing thatwas.
The furthest thing from my mindwas to even go into education.
But I do remember growing up Iwas free and reduced kid.

(05:08):
We had what we had, but my momdid a great job of taking care
of us.
But I do remember like hey,that teacher's got a nice house.
So I remember those things aswell.
Growing up in Lexington,nebraska, on the south side, we
called it the barrio, the hoodof Lexington, nebraska, on the
South side.
We call it the barrio, the hoodof Lexington, back in the day.

(05:28):
So you know that's where allthe poor kids lived and you
lived on the North side.
You know you had money, youknow.
So that was the perception.
But at the same time I can't,you're kind of making me think
that and I kind of remember thatas well, and so that's kind of
really a unique perspective thatyou and I share.

Jerry Mack (05:46):
Well, and you know this, but I feel like I've
really stumbled into it more injust the last few years that
more and more other schooladministrators I run into have a
similar background, and I thinkthat's what makes us good
principals, in the sense that wesee kids who might be trying to
hide.
We see those kids that theyneed supports.
You know, we can take care ofkids and if we need to buy extra

(06:10):
lunches, if we need to helppurchase shoes, whatever those
things are that we notice thosekids and I think it's a quality
that comes with it, that wasearned through our own
experiences.
So, yeah, I think that's partof what makes good principles.
Yeah, own experiences.
So yeah, I think that's part ofwhat makes good principles.

Principal JL (06:24):
Yeah, I mean we see things that maybe other
people can see because of whatwe, what we came up through and
how we were raised and kind ofhow we saw the world.
But I didn't like go intocollege thinking education was
the way it was, coaching thatgot me in, just like it did for
you, and that was my gateway toget me to where I'm at today.

(06:45):
So, jerry, let's talk about theclassroom a little bit.
You know, I believe you werewhat.
What teacher were you?
What kind of teacher?
Math teacher?

Jerry Mack (06:53):
So I was a math teacher.
I remember I just wanted tocoach.
Just like you said I was goingto coach.
That was why I went intoeducation.
I was in college for aboutthree years before.
I was like God, maybe, maybethis teaching thing is going to
be okay.
But I remember coming out ofhigh school thinking, well, I
have to coach, I have to teach asubject.

(07:15):
And so I was like I was like Idon't know.
And I was like history, no, andEnglish, I'm not going to read
papers at night, at night, no.
And I just remember thinkingmath.
I was like I did okay in mathin high school and you know, two
plus two is four.
It was four couple hundredyears ago.
It's probably not gonna changeand I I bet I can do that.

(07:36):
It might be easier to grade.
That's being a math teacher andthat's how I made up my mind to
go into math and it ended upbeing something I really enjoyed
.
I actually created, I started astatistics class here in this
school years ago that theprincipal gave me leeway on,
Like I.
Just I found an interest in itand then ended up turning it

(07:57):
into AP stats, which was thefirst time that Chadron High
School was offered that and it'sstill popular today, and so
that's kind of how I started.
But again, it all started with.
You know, I wanted to coach,that's all it was about.
And then I just I discoveredthis love of teaching, yeah, and
the subject actually was okaywith me.
The subject appealed to me andI really enjoyed it and that was

(08:19):
part of the reason why I had ahard time stepping out of that
role to take an administrativerole.

Principal JL (08:24):
Yeah, no, I can kind of hear you on that.
You know, for me I was a PEteacher first but they're like
you need to get anotherendorsement and I was like, oh,
I don't know what to do.
Kind of like what you're doing.
I'm like, well, I did okay atmath in high school, so I went

(08:52):
into the math route and I wentlike, oh my God, when did I get
myself into you?
Cause this is hard like taking,being double indoors, having a
PE and a math.
But guess what?
My math degree got me every jobas a teacher and as a coach.
It wasn't PE that got meindoors, my math degree that got
me into the door and got me thethe ability to be a head
football coach out of the gate,going in out of college.
Now, I was an older collegestudent.
I was 28 years old when Igraduated college, because I
coached six years in footballalready by that time.

(09:12):
But with that, what are somethings you learned in the
classroom as a math teacher thathelped you with your leadership
as a principal?

Jerry Mack (09:21):
Well, you know, a small thing that kind of has
morphed is I like data and sowhen I'm, when we're going to
make decisions, I have noproblem making decisions based
on data.
And if that data involvescrunching numbers and looking at
test scores and looking atdemographics, I'm very
comfortable with that.

(09:42):
And and I think that has becomeone of my roles on the district
administrative team is theyknow I'll crunch some data, they
know I'll get chronicattendance and see whether it's
up down and, and so that's beena benefit.
Clearly, you know, coaching,coaching is an extension of the
classroom and coaching is whereyou could really build some
relationships.
And you know and I miss that Igot gotta be honest with you

(10:04):
that was the part that I reallymissed rolling into the
principal job, but just thatwork ethic and working with data
and and I think has reallyhelped.
Um, I, you know I have noproblem whatsoever digging
through spreadsheets or evenbuilding spreadsheets so that I
can look at data a little deeper.

Principal JL (10:23):
Yeah, you were the AP statistic teacher, like that
makes sense to me Now.
I didn't like teachingchemistry or not chemistry, but
calculus or or AP stats or anystat class.
I was like give me algebra oneto algebra two, give me
transitional, give me thosetough kids, give me those kids

(10:44):
that are struggling with math,because I want to help them with
math so they can learn.
And those were I stuck.
I stayed away from that.
Now with, just like you I liketo do, I will look at the
numbers, I'll make data-drivendecisions and I'll show my staff
.
Here's what the data says.
Data don't care about yourfeelings.

(11:06):
That's what it says.
You know, yeah, and that's justthe way that is.
And that's what I love aboutmaking decisions as a data with
your team and with that you kindof hit on it, building
relationships.
Being a coach I will tell youthe hardest thing for me to go
from teaching and to being aprincipal was stepping away from
coaching.

(11:26):
I like to maybe deep dig downinto that, because I coach 17
years of football.
I loved it.
I coach, I coach about fiveyears of wrestling.
I didn't coach wrestling rightaway, but I did coach it here
and there at some districts, andI love that too, so much that I
became an official for a whilefor about nine years but then I

(11:48):
coached track as well, and sothat was like you know.
Not being able to do that withkids was probably one of the
hardest decisions, but I learnedas a principal that I can
impact not just my athletic kidsbut all kids in my building as
a principal and that's where Ifind my joy right now as a

(12:10):
principal is how I can helpthose kids that are in those
struggling modes.
You know the kids that.
You know that you got to reachout the weakest spot.
So kind of talk about you knowthat decision and stepping away
from coaching and teaching andtaking that first principal job.
Just go go through that.

Jerry Mack (12:28):
Yeah, and I started teaching in the early nineties.
In fact I think it was the fallof 90.
And so my first job you, you,you signed on to do three sports
and be a class sponsor and dowhatever.
So I was doing football,basketball and track.
And then I and that was inNebraska and I went to Wyoming
for a few years and wasbasketball.

(12:49):
Football and basketball was ahead boys basketball for the
high school, and when I movedback to Chadron and started here
, it was primarily football.
I was on the football staff andthen I officiated.
I thought it was a way to giveback to a sport I love.
So I officiated basketball forabout 15 years and that was a
good experience too.
But it's it's what you said.

(13:09):
You know.
Coaching is what I think iswhere I first discovered that
there's certain kids that needyou more.
And you know the other thingabout coaching and maybe I
shouldn't say this out loud, butit created a pet peeve of the
kid who had the talent and didnothing with it, drove me insane
.

Principal JL (13:28):
There's nothing wrong with that.

Jerry Mack (13:30):
I have the same old work so hard, but they're not
six foot six on the basketballteam like the other kid, and.
But anyways, coaching allowedyou to really see the kids that
needed the what I like financialsupport like help buying shoes,
a ride, a ride, yeah, and yougo pick them up, and so I think
that was important to bring that, and, of course, you can bring

(13:55):
that then into your classroomand then you, I think coaching,
you just needed to be there forthose kids a little bit more,
because they did need rides toschool.
Or you get home.
You know what it's like.
You get home at midnight off ofa bus ride, but we're in
Chadron, so we travel four hourson a Friday just to go play
football and back, yeah, so youget home late, yeah, and you got

(14:16):
.
You got parents that aren'taren't there to pick up a kid,
and and and so you're, you're ina position where you can serve
others better, I think, and thatclearly carried over into the
principal role.

Principal JL (14:29):
Yeah, I know.
Like you know, when I was atTwin River, I was that football
coach there in Genoa for fiveyears I became the bus driver as
well, because we were gettingshort on bus drivers and so I
would drive the bus to our awaygames and drive them home.
I almost lost a student onetime.
That's when I was up.

(14:50):
We were up in a plan west hole.
We won the game.
So you know, we won the game,we beat west hole.
We're coming home.
We stopped at mcdonald's ando'neill and I counted all the
kids, like okay, we got them all.
I'm getting ready to go and I'mheading out of o'neill and
here's the kids phone numberpopping up on my all.
I'm getting ready to go and I'mheading out of o'neill and
here's the kids phone numberpopping up on my phone.
I'm like what the heck?
Hey, coach, where are you guysat?

(15:11):
I'm like we're headed out oftown.
He's like I'm back.
I'm back at mcdonald's.
I went to the bathroom.
I snuck out the back of the bus.
I'm like gosh dang, it's hardto go around and and find the
kid.
And we got him, we didn't losethem.
But at the same time it's likeit's like one of those things
it's like you know.
So I remember like doing thosetrips and doing those, you know,

(15:32):
four hour one ways, and cominghome, being late and and being
there going.
Man, when are these parents aregoing to get these kids?
Yeah, we've taken kids homejust to get them.
You know where they need to beso they could be safe.
So, yeah, I remember those daysas well and and I think that's
what prepared us to do what wedo.
And so, with that, you know,you kind of saw, like you know,

(15:55):
hey, I'm stepping into theprincipalship.
You know what I'm hearing yousay is I want to make a bigger
impact, and so let's talk abouthow have you made an impact at
Chadron in high school as theirprincipal?

Jerry Mack (16:09):
So I'm going to tell you about culture and I'll lead
with.
I don't know that I'm thesmartest critter out there, but
I come from a Western background.
The town I grew up in wasBurwell and that was before it
had the Calamus reservoir, andso it was a cowboy town and my
dad was a hired man, workedconstruction.
Mom was a high school dropout,so that explains kind of the

(16:31):
poor thing.
Over my shoulder is still acowboy hat.
I wear one every day to, to, towork.
That's just how the kids see meand that's a shout out.
I wear that for some of thatfamily heritage and people who
are special to me.
But working with animals andhorses and all these different
things, it's just some thingskind of make sense to me.
And before I became a principalthe summer, I finally decided

(16:53):
to throw my name in the hat andthey roped me in.
I think I drew the short strawright away.
They closed the applications,interviewed me and it was done,
and so I spent that summer.
You know how you really thinkabout what impact you want to
have and what you want to do.
And I ran across this storyabout bull elephants in a
African game reserve where thejuvenile herd of elephants.

(17:17):
Of these males were killingother wildlife in the reserve.
And what the?
To fast forward the storywildlife and the reserve.
And what the?
To fast forward the story, thepark rangers finally figured out
that the absence of bullelephants was what was creating
the problem, and so they found away to transport in bull
elephants and the the phenomenonof the violence in the park.

(17:38):
Just it stopped the presence ofbull elephants.
Now that story has been usedfor other sociological settings.
It's far moreological settings.
It's far more than elephantsand it's far more than just boys
or males.
But at the time, remember, I wasin the school and and I always
I just felt like the majority ofour behaviors, our discipline
problems in the building whereour young kids which I think is

(17:59):
pretty common for a lot ofschools and I felt like the
seniors had always had theirhands kind of tied behind their
backs and it was just a feelingI had like they could, they
could do more, they could be ina different position.
So I spent that summer justintentionally thinking about how
to create bull elephants in theschool and if I could have the
bull elephants in the school andI could train them to along my

(18:23):
philosophies or along thephilosophies of our school, that
that would be beneficial, and Iwasn't sure how I was going to
do it on my first year.
But on that opening assembly Italked to all the kids and I do
my thing, like principals do,and I dismiss everyone, except
for the freshmen and the seniors.
And I'm telling you this that Ihave done this every year

(18:47):
Monday morning here.
In just a few days, as werecord this, I will do it for my
15th time, where I keep thefreshmen and the seniors in the
in the auditorium, and I talk infront of the freshmen.
I just tell them I'm here towork for seniors.
This year the seniors have beenin this building for three years
.
They know the expectations thatit takes to be a Cardinal, a
Chadron Cardinal and on and onand on, and I just go off in

(19:11):
front of these freshmen and Ieven tell them in the line.
The quote I use every year andthis will be the 15th year is if
there's misbehaviors in thehall, seniors will address it,
and if a senior tells you tojump, you get in the air before
you ask how high.
And the seniors love that lineand so I've just always kept it
in there just for the fun, forthe seniors.

(19:32):
But then I dismiss the freshmen.
I tell the freshmen if you don'tknow where you're going, if you
don't know a classroom, you aska senior.
You, you, you know.
So I don't want to be tooscared of the seniors, but I
think sometimes I think I'm tooscary with it and it's probably
it's not the best thing to do.
But the magic is after thefreshmen leave.

(19:54):
So after the freshmen leave,now it's just me and the seniors
.
And so I told the seniorsseniors, I have this teed up for
you.
Do not mess this up.
If you leave this auditoriumright now and then go get in the
face of a freshman in the hall,they're going to think you're a
jerk and they're never going torespect you.
However, if you'd listen to meand just three times talk to the

(20:16):
freshmen, especially the onesyou think might be a discipline
issue, just talk to them, checkin with them, walk up and say do
you know the classroom you'regoing to?
Number one they're going to bescared of you after this little
talk and they'll probably tellyou they don't need help.
But you tell you ask them againdo you know what classroom
you're going to.
I can help you, I can point itout to you, or you ask them do

(20:38):
you know how the lunch roomworks?
And so I give them theseprompts of things they can ask
or they can say to check in.
And I said, if you would justdo that three times, then you
will be the seniors that theywill remember and talk about at
their 10th year class reunion.
Because you know, you and I canprobably recall being freshmen
in a high school and we rememberthe seniors that were in the

(20:59):
building.
And so I try to set that up andI really go kind of a little bit
deeper with it.
And so I try to set that up andI really go kind of a little
bit deeper with it.
But basically I'm trying totrain the seniors on how to
leave this room and then gocheck in with freshmen, and then
I do expect them to addressbehaviors and I have to teach
them what they can and can't dothere.
You know you can't be vulgar,you can peer pressure all the

(21:23):
time, and peer pressure justwhen you use the words peer
pressure it sounds negative andso, but peer pressure, so I call
it peer influence.
It's powerful Kids.
A senior talking to a freshmanis far more powerful than
anything a principal could sayKids look up to them.
And so we really set that.

(21:44):
And then we turned the seniorsout and then we constantly in
the building tried to findprivileges that seniors get that
the other classmen don't get.
So I always want the seniors tobe seen in a that they have the
leadership in the building,that they have the support of
administration to be able toaddress concerns.
And so, anyways, to kind offast forward and skip over some

(22:04):
things, did it impact thefreshmen behaviors and
disciplines were better, ahundred percent.
It was so much better.
In fact, the most common areawhere we might have a freshman
misbehave is in a freshmanclassroom, like freshman English
, where the seniors aren't.
So that kind of tells me thatit works outside of the room.
And then two was the.

(22:25):
I did not anticipate how theculture in the building was
going to lean on seniorsthroughout the school year.
Seniors are the ones that comewith the ideas from student
council to do this, to do that.
Seniors are the ones that come.
They want to do somethingdifferent at a student section.
Those things, and of course thebehaviors of the seniors, has

(22:50):
been outstanding.
I don't have a lot of negativebehaviors from the seniors and
it just I can't give it justiceon this podcast to tell you that
the change that has made, Ithink, in our culture, in our
building, and then gettingteachers to buy in and teachers
are the ones that come to meoften with ideas on how to maybe
set the seniors up, give them aprivilege or put them in a

(23:12):
position and so, like in oursports teams, it just naturally
lent that the seniors on thosesports teams were the leaders on
those sports teams, theactivities, the clubs, the
student council, all of thosedifferent groups.
Senior leadership, then I meanit's like cherished and
sophomores and juniors know itand they look up to it and they

(23:33):
know they're going to be thosepeople someday.
And so I just occasionallyremind freshmen that you're not
ready.
You just haven't earned thoseprivileges.
You will in three years.
You're going to be the leadersin our building in three years.
You've got three years to learnit.
But this is where you're at now.
And so I was just.
Sometimes I'm just kind of thatold school cowboy guy.
I treat freshmen freshmen and Ireally try to honor seniors and

(23:57):
get put them in positions ofleadership and it's been a kind
of a almost a little mentorshipprogram.
Sometimes that wasn't really myintent, it just kind of
stumbled into it.
But the intentionality ofbuilding bull elephants that
work for you, for yourexpectations, in your school,
has been really powerful, Ithink, for Shattern High School

(24:17):
For 15 years.

Principal JL (24:18):
Yeah, I mean I think that is awesome.
Like for a year the last threeyears at Hastings I have been
trying to build the culture upand get it to where it is.
This is my fourth year atHastings High, my eighth year as
a principal.
So going into my fourth yearthe seniors were my freshmen and
it's really cool to see a lotof the seniors, a lot of the
upperclassmen, taking the rolein the activity fair today with

(24:43):
those freshmen talking to them,getting them excited about
Hastings High.
Then they just tell them thetruth.
It's just like hey, if you dowhat you're supposed to do when
you get here you'll be set up,but if you don't do what you're
supposed to do, you won't be setup for your senior year.
And so it was kind of neat tohear the seniors talk about that

(25:04):
a little bit today with thefreshmen.
I would say a story last yearwhen I did like the whole school
assembly last year, a freshmanmade a comment during the whole
school assembly the studentsturn around I don't know if
they're seniors or but they'reupperclassmen.
They turn around and said wedon't do that here.
And that like that to me waslike okay, they're getting it

(25:27):
and I'm thinking this year, I'mthinking it's going to be even
better.
Now that's.
I think that's kind of cool howyou talk to the freshmen, have
the seniors present, but thenyou, how you give the seniors
like, hey, hey you, there's someguidelines with it, don't be a
jerk about it.
But the thing is is you'rethere to serve and help those

(25:48):
kids because they're going toneed that and they need people
to look up to, they need thatsupport, so when they are
struggling, they at least havesomeone they can connect with.
And so with our school, we'retrying to figure out how we can
do that.
But I really like that idea.
I might steal it from you,jerry

Jerry Mack (26:07):
I stole stuff from you.
So it surprises me how theseniors end up taking the
freshmen under their wing.
I mean, that's what it ends upbuilding it.
I thought it was going to bemore peer pressure.
You know, like old school peerpressure, I was afraid of locker
room.
You know, seniors initiatingfreshmen, and we've never.
It's not that.

(26:27):
As long as you train it andwhen you talk with just the
seniors only, it's really turnedinto something special.
And, like I said, the rest ofthe student body, they've
experienced it as freshmen tooand they know their time is
coming.
So if a freshman did speak up,like in that assembly, I, we
would expect the seniors to bethe ones to address it.
When we sit in the auditorium,seniors always sit front and

(26:51):
center and I tell them they ownthis place.
They will always be front andcenter in the auditorium.
They sit together as a group,as a team, and that that's day
one.
And so student section seniorsget the front row.
Yeah, I, I will kick, I don'twant to do that here too, yeah
yeah, if, I, if and they love itwhen I see a freshman standing

(27:11):
at the side on, I kick thatfreshman up to the top of the
student section because theyknow it's seniors control it
kind of a real light story.
That happens every now and then, but I will get like.
I remember one time seniorscame in or the student body was
coming in.
After lunch we have open campus.
They came in and I have threefootball boys, seniors, and they

(27:32):
come up and say, mr Mack, weneed your office.
I go, oh, and he said we gotsome freshmen we need to talk to
and I think it was something todo with the team or somebody I
don't remember.
And the first time that happenedI was like I don't know if this
is, I let them use my office.
I was not in my office and whenthey walked out, it's, and

(27:52):
again, you have to train themwhat they can and can't do.
And but when they walked outthey just looked at me and go
it's taken care of.
I don't know what was said, butthat's the stuff that I think
happens in the hall or you know,with teams and and again, it's
not it's.
I hope it doesn't soundnegative as I share it because

(28:15):
it ends up being just somethingreally positive and really cool.
And just again, the whole goalis you as an administrator, are
you creating your bull elephantsand, as importantly, are you
training them so that theyfollow your expectations.
So I've really enjoyed it.
It's been so successful I'vejust every year.

(28:37):
I look forward to it.

Principal JL (28:39):
So, jerry, I have questions now because I'm going
to dig into that about trainingyour seniors.
So you talked to them that dayit's the first day of school is
what kind of follow-ups, whatkind of things do you do to
follow up with the seniors tomake sure they're doing the
things you ask them to do?

Jerry Mack (28:57):
Well, you clearly got to point out quickly if
they're doing something thatisn't going to help them and
again they don't they don't wantto be perceived as jerks.
And so once you kind of pointout, if you do this, which is
like go flex your power in theschool to a freshman on day one,
it's not going to work, itworks against you, you will not

(29:18):
be respected.
It just doesn't work that way.
What works is basically whatyou're teaching them is they
have to build a relationship.
I remember years ago Harry Wongwas one of the presenters at
educational conferences and hadbooks about talking to your kids
outside of your classroom threetimes over, something that had
nothing to do with your classbefore you came in and tried to

(29:41):
teach the kid.
And that's kind of what I'mtrying to do with the seniors is
just you just spending timewith them to let them know why
that is and what you'reestablishing.
And once that relationship isestablished, then if you need to
address something, it can be.
So, yeah, just, and it starts onday one, but you, like you said
, you do have to reinforce itand just occasionally catching

(30:03):
kids and you have seniormeetings at least I do
throughout the year becausethey're doing preparations for
graduation.
We do senior seminar to talkscholarships and those things,
and then every senior is goingto take an English and a
government class and so you needto get those teachers on board
and they help implement andsupport and establish that in

(30:24):
those classrooms.
And again, that maybe happenedby accident, but those are the
teachers, because they're seniorteachers.
They're sitting in theauditorium because that's where
their seniors are on day one.
So they have heard that from meyear after year and so then
they go to their classrooms andthen they end up supporting it
and then, like I said, justfinding authentic ways to let

(30:45):
them be seen as the leaders inthe school and give them a voice
in the school, and there's alot of ways that that can be
done as well.

Principal JL (30:52):
Yeah, I think.
Yeah, that's.
I was kind of curious likecause, I know, with kids, we're
going to have to reinforcethings, we're going to have to
follow up, we're going to haveto hey, that's probably not the
best way to do that, buddy, youknow.

Jerry Mack (31:03):
just so they understand, like you know
because other seniors know thattoo and it's not unusual.
You know that one senior boy,he's going to go flex and he's
going to really try to throw hisvoice out or address a freshman
and his buddies, the otherseniors, they'll point it out
too and they're like man, that'snot going to work.
It doesn't work that way.

(31:24):
So it's been.
It's more successful than Ithought it would be and
something that I kind of hang myhat on.
I'm kind of proud of thatculture that's established where
we can really honor and providesome seniority to the, the kids
that have been in the buildingyou bet man, that's awesome.

Principal JL (31:42):
I really enjoy just kind of how you built that
culture and you, you know reallytraining those elephant bulls,
if I'm saying it right.
Bull elephants, those bullelephants I said it backwards,
it just goes to my dyslexia.
So the bull elephants and howto get that culture piece within
your school, I think thatreally is really a neat way to

(32:03):
do it.
I haven't really heard it thatway and I think that's really
awesome and I think you knowwhen you talk about culture.
I think you said an importantpiece having the teachers and
the staff buy into it, becausethey're the ones that can help
you really reinforce the cultureyou want and that's kind of
where we're at.
I think the staff after threeyears really got a good sense of

(32:24):
what we're trying to do and thebuying in is much more and the
staff members that haven'treally bought in they might have
just left on their own butoutside of the same time we have
great staff here at Hastingsand they've done a nice job of
helping those kids to reinforcethe things that we do.

Jerry Mack (32:42):
Yeah, and I've noticed culture with staff is
different.
It's not really about like youdo have some senior is different
.
It's not really about like youdo have some seniority.
But it's not really bullelephants.
It doesn't work the same withstaff.
With staff it's about family.
Um, that's what's worked.
For me is like reminding everynow and then it might be once a
year at a staff meeting becauseof whatever's going on, but I'll

(33:02):
tell the teachers.
It's like we are family andfamilies fight.
We're brothers and sisters,like it.
It's not going to be unusualthat we disagree and we fight
with each other over a topic,but that fight never leaves this
building.
It doesn't go out downtown andoutside.
Stuff definitely does not comeinside of these walls.

(33:24):
And because when a family, youknow if you go after one of my
family members, we're going tohave other support coming in and
we're going to have eachother's backs and being able to
relay that part, that culture,that family culture, over and
over with staff, has beenprobably what helps most for
staff in the building.
And you know there's timeswhere my staff members going

(33:45):
there might be a health issue ora family issue or something
that's family.
So if they're going through it,we're going through it and and
I remind them because they'reour family, we help them, we
support and that's been reallyspecial too.
And when we do the Fridaypotlucks, those are family meals
, those are family things.
That's a family table, you know.
And so the culture with thestudents is about seniority,

(34:07):
because of freshman, sophomore,junior, senior, and so there
it's bull, elephants andexpectations.
And then with the, with thestaff, it's more about just
family and taking care of eachother and understanding.
It's okay if we disagree oncein a while, we're still family.

Principal JL (34:21):
Yeah, no, I, I think that's right on with with
your staff, have a week.
I talk about having a communityof people that work together.
We talk about being a team, andso I really lean into the team
concept with my coachingbackground and, like you said,
just like family, you're goingto, you're going to have little
scuffles with your teammates,but guess what, at the end of
the day, we're adults.

(34:41):
Yep, we're here to do a job andwe're here to help kids learn,
and there's a lot of ways to dothat.
But at the same time, we needto work together, because that's
the only way we're going to beable to have success in our
school is working together andstriving for that same goal.
And, you know, have keeping theexpectations up here.
Don't lower those expectations.

(35:02):
Tell the kids, and I even tellmy staff this is my expectation
for you.
It's because I believe in you,I know you can hit that mark,
and if I put the expectationdown, I'm settling for
meteorocracy and I can't havethat.
We're going to go up here, andso we talk about that a little
bit as well as staff meetings.
Jerry, how did I get into theprinciple of the year in the

(35:24):
state of Nebraska.
How did you find out?

Jerry Mack (35:29):
Nebraska, we've got to do a better job.
Nebraska, we have to do abetter job.
So I go to the nationalconference where the 50 high
school principals and somestates have a middle school
principal also and they werejoined together and I'm
listening to their stories aboutall these big events and the
unveiling and the surpriseannouncement of being named

(35:51):
principal of the year.
I think it was in October.
I got a phone call as I'mleaving the local Walmart.
I'm in my pickup drive-in andthey said don't tell anyone
unless you want to maybe tellyour, your, your spouse.
We will announce it inDecembercember at the state
principals conference.
So you spend two and a halfthree months walking around the

(36:14):
building.
No one knows, they didn't.
Somebody had notified thesuperintendent but she must have
got the same story because.
So nobody knew anything untildecember.
And you go down to the stateprincipals conference and you
give a little speech with aplaque, an absolute honor.
It didn't diminish the honorand the humbleness and the shock

(36:37):
that it comes, even though it'sthrough a.
I mean, we were at thatadvocacy conference together and
that has been the repeatedmessage that I've heard since.
Is we the other principals ofthe year and understand they're
just as humble and they're justas simple as you are.

(37:10):
You know we don't see anything.
I mean, I see special things inour school, but everyone thinks
they're in the best school.
You know what I mean, and so,anyways, I'm just trying to get
comfortable enough to know thatI'm in a part of my career that
I think I do need to give backand be an advocate for the
profession, and I want to takethat on, and so that's probably

(37:32):
what's changed since then.

Principal JL (37:34):
Awesome, yeah, I mean, I think it's awesome that
you have that opportunity tomaybe some doors open through
this opportunity.
Do you have any doors that haveopened since being named the
principal of the year?

Jerry Mack (37:48):
You know the network has expanded and then through
NASSP, you know, and it wasavailable all along.
But you know, now I'm moreaware of it and I'm more aware
of the services and they have.
I joined the rule principlesnetwork and so we had a zoom.
Today it only happens aboutquarterly or every couple of
months where you get togetherand you listen.

(38:10):
You know the principal fromKetchikan, alaska, was on with
the middle school principal inTexas he's the middle school
principal of the year for hisstate and then just other
administrators from states, orin fact there wasn't really any
states on there regionally.
Today I mean just being able tohear how much more you have in

(38:33):
common.
So the network since then hasreally expanded.
For me now that's probably beenthe biggest thing and I'm not
gonna lie, you probably get alittle more confidence that you
maybe you do have something tooffer.
You know what I mean like yeahmaybe I do, maybe we do
something that's okay here.
That's where, like my bullelephant story, I've I haven't
told other administrators that,but I just feel like if we're

(38:53):
not sharing with each other sothat you can steal what works,
we're not we're not rivals.
You know we can play each otheron a friday night and try to
win the football game, but youknow we're in this for kids and
that has nothing to do withbeing a rival in this the job.
It can be isolating and you canmake it a lot more isolating.

(39:14):
Or we can have theseconversations like you and I are
doing, and I stole an idea fromyou already this week with my
staff meeting, and somebody outthere listening might steal the
bull elephant idea, or maybeit's some other idea, except
that we're all in this for thesame reason to, to, to support
kids and serve the kids in ourcommunities.

(39:35):
So I think I'm a little morecomfortable to share some of
those things.

Principal JL (39:39):
I think the networking piece is huge.
I really didn't network a lotwhen I was a young you know I'd
say young eight years ago.
But when I was a new principalI didn't do a lot of networking.
I was so worried about leavingmy ability and something's going
to happen.
But I got.
Well, I have systems in placenow to where I know my bill is
going to be fine.
I need to have theseopportunities to go visit with

(40:02):
other principals.
I'm in the EMC conference so wehave principal meetings with
our conference in the EasternMidland Conference and Lincoln
about once a quarter or more,like twice, I guess three times
a year.
There's one time I can't gobecause we host the state
softball tournament here inHastings.
It's great to get to connectwith those people.

(40:22):
But then when you're at admindays, great to connect with
those people.
When you go to the NASSPNational Conference you get to
learn from a lot of people froma lot of areas and you go.
You know what.
We're doing some really goodthings here, like they're doing
over there.
We're doing okay, like we'redoing some of the same stuff and
, like you said, it builds thatconfidence and goes the same

(40:46):
stuff and, like you said, itbuilds that confidence and goes,
and that's what this podcast isabout is sharing stories of
other principles to otherprinciples out there that can
maybe get something out of thatand maybe take it and go.
Maybe, if it worked for Jerryand shatter it, maybe it worked
for me wherever I'm at.
And so that's the big push forthis podcast is to give people

(41:08):
other people's ideas and to helpeach other grow and build that
network of leadership to makeourselves better.
Because, like you said, you'rein Chadron and I'm in Hastings
and we're connecting and we'restarting to run across each
other.
Not on purpose, it just happens, and I think that's really neat
.
I'll be honest, I went toNebraska Educational Advocacy

(41:30):
Workshop because I was mad, andI was mad at the state for
passing the FAFSA bill, so whereevery senior has to fill out a
FAFSA.

Jerry Mack (41:43):
All right.

Principal JL (41:44):
Or they have to sign a waiver, or Mr Linden has
to sign the dang waiver Yep,well, I have pretty good size
senior classes.
I had to sit down and fill out72 waivers because I couldn't
get families to do it.
I knew that was going to happen.
So you know what?
I don't want another stupid lawlike that to pass.
So what do I?

(42:05):
I saw that that email I likeI'm going to go to that, I'm
going to learn about it becauseI need to be better at what's
going on in my state and I needto speak up and tell our story,
because if we do that enough andwe get enough of us rounded up
to do that, maybe they'll thinktwice before they start putting
stuff on the public schooleducation system.

(42:28):
And then I'm making our jobseven harder than it needs to be.
We already have a tough job.
You guys need to knock yourcrap off sometimes.
So that's kind of where I'm atwith it.
So I want to see here why youwent to the workshop and what
got you involved with theadvocacy workshop that the
Nebraska Council Schooladministrators put on, with the
advocacy workshop that theNebraska council school
administrators put on Verysimilar action.

Jerry Mack (42:47):
I'll tell you the one that got me, but part of it
is just the confusion of how itworks.
Now, number one I am seven,seven and a half hour car drive
away from the state Capitolwhere this stuff takes place,
and so we rely on other sourcesto get information, and NCSA has
been an organization that doesa phenomenal job keeping

(43:08):
administrators up to date onthese legislative changes.
And you know and one of them, Iguess the one that got under my
skin that I had emailed thestate senator on was school
libraries, like I get like, okay, if you want to catalog
everything that's in the library, so parents know what's in the
library, I get it.
You know it's going to be inthe library, I get it.
You know it's going to be morework, but I get it.

(43:29):
But then there was discussionabout that parents would be
notified when a child haschecked out a book.
And, again, there's probablynothing wrong with that, but
it's just so.
In my mind it was so ridiculousthat this kid can have a

(43:51):
smartphone that their parentspay for, that has access to the
internet, that they can view andconsume anything they want, but
now schools have to track andnotify parents of what book was
in a library a school library,by the way.
It isn't like we have a youknow porn section over in the
corner.
You know it's a school library.

Principal JL (44:09):
The school purchase wait a minute, you
don't have that curtain in theback right and I just remember
those old days, yeah, you knowvideo stores.

Jerry Mack (44:18):
Yeah, no sense.
To me it's like you know andwe're you know.
We have one-to-one devices.
We hand out devices starting inseventh grade and again, we
can't monitor everything thatthat kid is viewing on a
Chromebook, but yet Parents needto know the school library
books that they don't trust.

(44:39):
And I know parents have ways ofsome probably do monitor some
use, but you can't control theWi-Fi network your kid is on
when they have a device or aphone and anyways, it just felt
like that kind of stuff.
That was one of them, that'slike.
It just feels like extra work,and the FAFSA one was another

(45:01):
prime example.
It's just extra work for peoplethat I don't know.
I don't know that it completelyaccomplishes what I think they
were hoping to anyway, but so,anyways, for me, going to that
advocacy conference, I wanted tolearn the process of where I
need to understand the language,to know where in the process a
bill is before it becomes a bill.

(45:22):
That was probably one of themain things like am I emailing
my senator at the right time, oris my senator involved in that,
or is my senator even voted onthat yet?
And so I wanted to know thetimeline of what it looked like
for a bill going through andjust to learn more about that.
And then, as you know, we'rethe ones doing the job, we're

(45:58):
the ones that understand schooland no school.
Probably.
You know, we need to find a wayto get our voice out to the
state senators and perhaps ourpublic, to let them know what is
really happening in schools andwhat it looks like.
So, yeah, that's all part of it.

Principal JL (46:17):
Yeah, I mean, yeah , that's that I agree, right
there.
I mean, yeah, that's that Iagree, right there.
I mean I totally forgot aboutthat library until you brought
it up.
I mean this is ridiculous,right, like you said, kids have
access to a lot of things ontheir phone that parents don't
regulate.
But yeah, the state wants toregulate what you get out of the
library.
And the thing is, is ourlibraries like for us, you can,

(46:38):
you want to know what's in ourlibrary?
We have it out there, you canlook through it.
We don't care, right?
You know we don't.
We don't really worry aboutwhat's in our library.
But there are some peoplealready got this.
This book's been in there for30 years and you're like this
isn't new, but so like I thinkthat's really great.
We kind of have that same youknow story.

(47:00):
We got fed up with stuff.
We're like you know what I gotto do something about that?
And I know one of the things Ihave done since the advocacy
workshop is I've reached out tomy state Senator.
Now, I kind of knew the stateSenator before he became a state
Senator, so I had that in thebag.
Dan Lonowski, here at AdamsCounty, was a wrestling coach

(47:21):
for a long time out at AdamsCentral, as you know, and I was
a wrestling coach so I ran intohim a few times that way.
But also I was an official so Iran into him on that end and so
I've kind of known him, greatguy.
But at the same time I'm justlike hey, dan, if there's any
time you want to come toHastings high, come on over, I

(47:41):
will show you what we're about.
I want you to show us whatwe're doing, cause I know he
knows the Adams central districtreal well, cause he was a part
of that.
He was a teacher and coach.
But I come over to Hastingshigh I will show you what's up.
You know, if you have anyquestions about anything that's
coming up, because he's actuallyon the education committee
there you go.
So I'm like, oh, I do thatbecause I've talked to him and

(48:04):
I'm like going, if there'sanything educationally that's
coming up and you would likesome insights, let me know, I'll
give it to you.
I'll help you with that.
I want to be more of aproponent, and so have you done
anything like that since that?
Cause they kind of talked to usabout trying to build that
relationship with your with yourlocal Senator.
So what are some things maybeyou've done in the same capacity

(48:26):
?

Jerry Mack (48:26):
And you know this but our audience might not.
My wife is also a principal.
She's an elementary principalhere in Chadron.
She has kindergarten, firstgrade, second.
She actually has the preschoolas well, and so we're both.
We were both at that advocacyconference and so while we were
there, we went across the streetto across the street to the
state Capitol.
We found the office and got tovisit with the legislative aid

(48:48):
for our state Senator.
They weren't in session, so ourSenator wasn't there, and we
established a relationship there, left notes there in the office
and then came back and then wasable to hear from our state
senator and just said hey, I'mhere, I'm, this is a high
performing school.
If you ever run into somethingwhere you want to know what is

(49:09):
it that's happening in schools,just reach out to us.
And then the summer, doing theyou know the your local County
fair, your little uh for us andshattering his fur trade days.
So we have a parade and she'sthere and my, my wife uh, sought
her out and said hey, I know wekind of exchanged emails since
that advocacy conference.

(49:30):
I just wanted to introducemyself in person, my husband and
I and I cause I was doingschool tours at the time for
alumni, and so she just said myhusband and I are here if you
ever want to know what's goingon.
Anyways, just made a personalcontact that day as well, and we
got some feedback, or itsounded like our senator was
interested in having connectionsin education, even though she's

(49:53):
not on the education committee,and so I just felt like we've
at least established ourself asa connection.
I clearly feel more confidentto reach out during the next
session if there's somethingthat I think we need to advocate
for or against.

Principal JL (50:07):
Yeah, and I think honestly.
I think this is a great timejust to let people know your
state legislation is going tobring in laws that you're going
to have to abide by, and so,before it becomes a law, like we
do with our kids and ourfamilies, we need to start
building those relationshipswith those state senators or

(50:28):
legislators that create thoselaws that are going to affect
our job.
If we don't do that, they'renot going to be able to have a
connection with us.
When they're trying to passsomething, we can go, hey, this
is what's good about it, this ismaybe not so what's good about
it?
So let's talk about it.
I think we, as principals, haveto do a better job of doing that

(50:50):
, because we're the ones doingthe work, we're doing the grind,
we're the ones in the building.
We see the families, we knowthis is going to be a great idea
or this is something that.
Why are you doing this?
This isn't that.
You know this isn't everythingthat you think it's going to be,
because all you're doing isdoing extra work for us and
we're already in the shortageand you're going to make it

(51:11):
worse by doing some of thisstuff.
So I think, building thatrelationship.
We have to get better in ourfield to do it.
I think that's awesome thatyou've done that.
Be intentional, like we do withour kids and our staff.
We got to do that on that sideand I think that's leveling up
our profession right, and Ithink that's where we really got
to get to, and it doesn'tmatter if you're in Nebraska or

(51:33):
if you're in Kansas or inCalifornia wherever you're at,
you need to have relationshipswith those people and help them
understand how schools areworking so they can make better
decisions for schools.

Jerry Mack (51:46):
Yep, yeah, and my goal is that you know my Senator
knows my name when I contactyou, know if I reach out or
email that you know.
I just wanted to know it's a.
It's a real person with a realjob in this real field.
So, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
It doesn't matter what stateyou're in.
I think administrators need tomake that connection and be
there to advocate for theprofession and for your kids.

Principal JL (52:08):
You bet.
Yeah, that's kind of what we'redoing.
We're advocating for ourprofession, but we're also
advocating for our staff, ourkids and our whole system.
And I think for Nebraska wehave great public education.
We're not broke.
We're not broken like otherstates are with their state
public schools.
I think we are one of the bestout there when it comes to just

(52:32):
how we do it and kind of havingthe unit camera in the state but
also having, you know, nebraskaDepartment of Education is a
person that is not elected.
They're not appointed by agovernor.
They're actually someone has tointerview for the job and they
have to get selected by a boardand the board controls the
commissioner of the Nebraska andthey work with the governor but

(52:54):
at the same time, they're notappointed by that person.
That's what helps us not havingto change things every four
years because it's whatevergovernor is in power at the time
.
So you know, so I think we havea benefit to that, but at the
same time, you have to getactive in those things to help

(53:16):
the profession, help your kidsand help your staff.
And I think, right on there Now, jerry, we've kind of talked a
lot, a lot of things.
I'm really enjoying thisconversation, man.
This has been a lot of fun.
Jerry, what's next for you?
What's coming up on the horizon?
You know what, what's going onin Jerry's world when it comes
in the future at Shattering, andwhat you got anything cooking

(53:39):
up there.

Jerry Mack (53:39):
Yeah, professionally , it's trying to find avenues to
give back.
It's trying to find avenuesbecause the truth is, I don't
know the average length of atenure of an administrator or a
principal, but a lot ofprincipals don't make it 10
years.
They don't go.
You know, it seemed like whenwe were kids the principals had
all been the principal for 30years.

(54:01):
I don't know that that happensa lot anymore.
And so, you know, as we get 10years of experience, 15 years of
experience, we have theexperience where you know you're
a veteran and you need to findways to somehow have an impact
or a cultural impact outside ofthe school walls.
And I think that's where I'm atin my career.

(54:21):
You know, I don't know how manymore years I'll go in a
principal position just becauseretirement you know what is it?
They say convicts and educatorsare the two that talk about how
many years I got 12.
Right, I got three, so but it'slike you know what.

(54:44):
What can I do number one for,for our community, for shadron,
public schools, what can I dofor shadron to really establish
it and to reach out, because weI'll be honest with you we just
have a lot of ridiculoussuccesses academically.
But number two, what can I dofor the profession and reach out
beyond and be able to sharesomething and leave something

(55:05):
behind that might help someoneelse?
So, professionally, I thinkit's just trying to find those
avenues of where do I have somevalue to network a little more,
jeff, and you know our state.
I'm in the northwest corner ofthe state of Nebraska.
We're a little over a hundredmiles from the nearest
population center, where there's10,000 people, and so, by

(55:26):
federal definitions, that's thefrontier, and so for us I think
that's always been, or for meanyway it's like, well, I'm not
going to get involved withLincoln because it's a seven
hour drive, it's just too far.
And I'm not going to getinvolved with Lincoln because
it's a it's a seven hour drive,you know it's just too far, and
I I'm trying to just get overthat Like it's.
Uh, it doesn't matter thedistance or the time, it's still
worth reaching out and, and youknow, in the world of

(55:48):
technology and zoom you knowsince COVID now most things are
on zoom and you can be a part of.
So I just want to find outwhere where I can help out where
I can learn more, learn moreand share more.

Principal JL (56:00):
If you guys don't know Chadron's beautiful man,
they got Fort Robinson statepark up there.
They're not very far from theblack Hills, I mean it's.
It's gorgeous up there.
I kind of get jealous Cause Iknow I know the area enough to
know that it's really reallyneat little area.
I don't know you guys are aboutwhat 5,000- 6,000, I think, as
a community.

(56:20):
Um, you have a, you know,division two college there as
well, and so Shatter has got alot of cool things out there.
My wife's originally from Bayard, Nebraska, so I go out to the
panhandle I've been out there,you know, visiting family and
kind of know what it is, whatit's like out there, and I will
tell people if you get a chanceto go up there and vacation or,

(56:43):
you know, go to the state parkup at Fort Robinson.
It's fantastic.
I would recommend it.
And when I coached at Hersheywe go to Chadron for the
football clinic.
Every year we take our kids anddo the football camp for our
the football clinic.
Every year we take our kids anddo the football camp and at the

(57:04):
end of every football camp wego up the go up the Chadron Hill
and we get a picture and and doall those things.
So I mean I have a lot of greatmemories being in Chadron and
doing those things.
I even remember when DannyWoodhead was, you know, playing
football out there.
I followed his career because Iactually knew him when he was a
high schooler.
My best friend lived in NorthPlatte.
He was one of the youthcounselors at the youth group in

(57:27):
church and Danny was a part ofthat church family so I got to
know him that way.
So I kind of followed hiscareer.
But yeah, he was phenomenalrunning back out at Chadron
State there.
So there's a lot of one of mywrestling coaches a former
Chadron State wrestler and thenthe guy that took over the

(57:48):
wrestling program at twin riverwas a two-time national champion
from Chadron State and sothere's I got a lot of connect,
a lot of people I I've ran intoabout, you know, just shattering
, so I will let people know likeit's a really great place out
there and there's not.

Jerry Mack (58:03):
A lot of people know that nebraska has a forest.
So the nebraska national forestyeah, it takes up almost 40
percent of our school districtlands is nebraska national
forest, or the what we call thenebraska game of parks, which is
all government land, and youknow people talk about, well,
nebraska game of parks, which isall government land and you
know people talk about, well,nebraska is just cornfields, not
in this part of the state.
No, that's.

Principal JL (58:25):
That's the I call that god country up there.
Yeah, we're the black hills andall that so yeah, no, that's
pretty great up there.
Now, jerry, I kind of want toask you a question, because
there might be people listeningto this podcast that might are
thinking about that step intoleadership.
Hey, I'm thinking aboutbecoming a principal.

(58:46):
Maybe it's a system principal,maybe it's a head principal.
What advice would you give toan aspiring educator out there
that wants to step into thisrole?

Jerry Mack (58:57):
A couple of things come to mind.
One is to get connected, tounderstand that.
You know, networking is justwhat principals do.
We reach out to each other, wecall the principal down the road
.
Like I said, we can playagainst each other, cheer
against each other on a Fridaynight, but on Monday morning
we're calling each other to.
You know, get ideas.
And just to understand that'spart of the role of being a

(59:18):
principal is networking andleaning.
Like I just want to know policy, like I called you last spring
over one and I learned aboutstaff and a you know a little
policy you guys use with a dateand may and anyways.
That's where we get ideas, isleaning on each other and it's.
It's not an ego job that way.
It's about kids, it's not aboutus, and so that comes to mind.

(59:41):
But the more important thing Iwould say for advice was I
really struggled to take theposition.
I knew I enjoyed coaching, Iknew I enjoyed teaching and I
knew it would be a timecommitment.
But I really struggled becauseI just wanted to know can you
really make an impact on aschool as a principal?
And so what I'm going to sayhere is I think the principal is

(01:00:06):
the number one factor thatinfluences the culture in a
building the culture with thestaff, the culture with the
students.
I'm not saying that to takecredit.
I'm saying that because aprincipal has to consistently
get a message out there.
A principal has to consistentlyand revisit that message quite
often to establish a culture.

(01:00:28):
And so if you're consideringbecoming a principal or taking
an administrative role, I wouldtell you that it is so important
.
I mean, you're working with lawenforcement to help kids,
you're working with DHHS tosupport families, you're working
with different entities to findways to buy meals for kids and

(01:00:48):
all these things we do.
It's so important, but you getto have an impact on hundreds of
kids versus what I could do ina classroom or the 50 kids or 20
kids I could have the impact onas a coach.
It's at a different levelperhaps, but it is a culture
that a principal really doeshave their thumb on, that can

(01:01:10):
really influence for an entireschool.
And so it's an importantposition and just to reach out
and talk to each other to helpyourself through the vastness of
the job that we deal with andthat's why we have each other
that we can lean on and thosesupport systems.

Principal JL (01:01:28):
Yeah, you bet.
I mean you hit all the thingsright there.
If you're going to be, ifyou're aspiring principal man,
take what he just said to heart,because you can have an impact
Now, your impact, you want it tobe positive, but if you want to
have a negative impact, you cantoo.
On that, you don't want to dothat.
Trust me, you'll be out of ajob pretty quick when it comes

(01:01:49):
to that.
You don't want to be thatauthoritarian leader.
But we're talking about thatperson that's going to come in.
They're going to support theirstaff.
They're going to support theirstaff.
They're going to support theirstudents.
But they're leading the way,they're showing people.
You know what this is, wherewe're going to go.
You have to be able to paintthe vision.
You got to be able to paint thevision and get people behind it
.
That's part of that job too.
When you are becoming aprincipal is knowing how to do

(01:02:12):
that, and it takes time.
You're not going to be perfectat it, and when people know
you're a brand new principle,they give you grace.
They understand that you'relearning and you're trying to
figure it out.
There's not a lot of things outthere that gets you prepared
like the real thing, but I'mhoping this podcast helps a
little bit when it comes down toit.
So you know, you know and thosethings like that.

(01:02:34):
So, jerry, if people want toreach out and connect with you
about the work that you're doingthere in Shadron, how could
they do that?

Jerry Mack (01:02:42):
You know, the easiest thing for me is just to
have you contact the schoolChadron High School in Chadron,
Nebraska.
It's something that cancertainly be Googled.
Maybe there's some footnotes inhere so you can see how Chadron
is spelled because it startsC-H-A here, so you can see how
Shadron is spelled because itstarts C-H-A.
And then I am on Twitter.
But I'll be honest with you.

(01:03:06):
I live through the schoolaccounts, more so the at Chadron
HS, at Shadron high school.
We, you know they were veryactive on social media.
That's, those are my accounts.
I have some personal Instagramand Twitter accounts that I, you
know, I'm a stalker, you know,looking at news and checking out
what the Huskers are doing, youknow, but for the most part
it's it's through the schoolaccount.
So I would just say, reach outto the school and give a call.

Principal JL (01:03:28):
Yeah, yeah, I'll put that on show.
So if you guys want to getahold of them, it's going to be
in the show notes.
I mean whenever, wherever youguys listen to the podcast,
because it could be anywhere,because I have it on all major
platforms.
All right, jerry, it's been agreat conversation, but before
we go, you said Husker football.
You said Husker football.
I'm a huge Husker fan.
I want to know will Coach Rhuleget it done this year?

(01:03:52):
Will we be 8, 9, 10 wins?
I don't know.
I hear a lot of positive.
I mean, you go listen to coachEkeler's press conference
yesterday.
Oh, it gets you fired up, man,it gets you fired up.
So what would I know?
What Jerry thinks about Huskerfootball in 2025?

Jerry Mack (01:04:13):
You brought up coach Ekeler.
He used a line about I think itwas about kick return.
He goes remember the movie daysof thunder?
And there's all the smoke andthe car wreck.
You just got to go through it.
You just got to go through thesmoke and I'm thinking husker
football.
You need to just go through thesmoke.
We need to get it.
You're from out of state.
You don't understand theimportance of this conversation

(01:04:34):
Jeff and I are having right now,but we call it drinking the
Kool-Aid every year.
And I tell you what I'm soexcited that I think coach rule
just how grounded he is, thepositive messaging he does the
school administrators we couldjust steal from that.
He's so consistent with the,both the messaging that he does
and how he promotes his playersand his program.

(01:04:56):
Gosh, if they get 10 wins, Itell myself I would just be
absolutely thrilled and I willbe upset if we don't get 11th.

Principal JL (01:05:09):
Yeah that's right, we're always one.
Hey, we can go 10 wins and belike man, this is a great year,
but maybe we should have wonthat other one.
Yeah, we might as well get 11th.
Like, okay, for me, great year,but, man, we should have won
that other one.
That's just the way it is.
We're going to get 11.
Like, okay, for me I'm goingcautiously optimistic.
I think they're going to have agreat season, but for me I'm
going just get the seven.
Please Just get the seven.
I know, get the seven.

(01:05:30):
Anything past seven I'll behappy with, but the same, if
they start winning eight, nine,I'm gonna be like you probably
should have done this you know,but yeah, I'm excited about it.
Another thing coach Ekeler wassaying was oh, what was it he
was talking about is aboutleadership, right, you know,

(01:05:51):
leading by example and I want tokind of make this point and I
thought it was reallyinteresting it's like leading by
example, it's like a myth.
It's one of those things.
We don't lead by example, wejust do it, we just lead.
We don't just, you know, leadby example, we just do the job
and everything that we do day byday, the little things we do,

(01:06:14):
the paying attention to detail,those things is where the
leadership really goes.
And so, understanding that yourday by day, your little things
that you do every day, build tothose big successes.
Now, some people may disagreewith the, you know, leading by
example.
I feel like modeling is a greatway to lead at times, huddling

(01:06:35):
is a great way to lead at times,but at the same time, I just
thought it was a reallyinteresting perspective from
Coach Ekeler when I came down toit, because I always talk about
what are you going to getbetter at today, teachers?
What are you going to getbetter today at students?
You find something to getbetter at and I'm going to
figure out what am I going toget better at today, and so I

(01:06:55):
thought that was a reallyinteresting quote from yesterday
.

Jerry Mack (01:06:57):
A quick example.
I was thinking, like man,there's mud on the floor, on the
tile, or a water spill, youjust grab a mop and then I, I'm
out there mopping and then youknow I have a young teacher goes
oh, servant leadership, I, I'mnot trying to lead by example,
I'm doing exactly what you justsaid.
I'm just, you'm just, you'rejust doing it and it you are

(01:07:21):
reading, you, you are a modeling, you're modeling, but I didn't
think I was being intentional.
It's just that spreads, youknow, stepping in and doing what
needs to be done is is all of asudden it's leadership and I
was like I, it just needed, youknow yeah, no, I hear you.

Principal JL (01:07:38):
I have very similar experiences, like there
could be a spill on the floor,some kid dropped their water
bottle and it's everywhere.
I I've been a big school.
I have a thousand students, Ihave 119 staff, 120.
I just hired my last one, so Ihave 120.
I just hired the last, my lastpara.
I have all my staff filled forthe year.
I'm excited, all right,nonetheless.

(01:07:59):
But I just go grab a mop and didit, I like.
I guys, I worked at mcdonald,that was my first job.
I know how to mop a dang floor.
So there's just things that youdo, that you just do.
You don't like.
You don't like, you just do it.
It's just part of like being.
Then you know what those people, those custodial staff, when
they see you do that they'relike well, where does this guy

(01:08:21):
come from?
Yeah, we're not used to, notused to the principal doing
those things, but you know what?
That's what we do.
We want to, we want to makethings.
I will tell you this morning,Jerry, I got a little bit mad
because our grounds peopleweren't getting things taken
care of.
So this morning at 5:30, Iwent to the school and did some

(01:08:41):
weed whacking and blowing.
I like I ain't waiting, I'm notwaiting around for him.
I want this to look good.
I don't want our students tosee this part of our building
looking trashy, and so I getupset when my building doesn't
look good and we have to takecare of what we have because I

(01:09:01):
have an old building.
But at the same time, we wantour kids to be proud of where
they go and we want you know wedon't take care of the things we
have.
They're not going to take careof them.
So we'll go on forever on thisone, jerry.
But I really appreciate theconversation.
You know all else fails go BigRed coming up this year.

(01:09:25):
Jerry, I wish you and theChadron Cardinals well this year
.
You're doing great things outthere and I'm excited about our
and forging this relationshipand you know I'm learning from
you and as humbling that youlearned from me as well, and I
just think this is going to be afun relationship as we build it

(01:09:48):
out.
I'm over the years.
So, jerry, I really appreciateyou.
I really appreciate you beingon the podcast today, man.

Jerry Mack (01:09:54):
Absolutely Appreciate you having me.
It's, it's a lot of, and I'veenjoyed listening to episodes.

Principal JL (01:10:00):
What a conversation with Mr Jerry Mack
Love learning about his journeyin educational leadership, his
insights on how to build up aschool culture and the advice he
gives to aspiring educationalleaders everywhere.
If this episode resonates withyou, please share it with
someone who needs to hear it.

(01:10:20):
And until next time, be curiousand 1% better.