The principal’s chair looks different from the inside. We pull back the curtain on the quiet costs of leadership—why accountability requires real boundaries, why the job can feel isolating even in a busy building, and how to replace that isolation with a resilient network that actually gets it. Through candid stories and concrete examples, we map out the habits that keep leaders steady: clear communication, consistent expectations, and the courage to tell your school’s story before others write it for you.
You’ll hear how conversations with standout educators sparked practical changes you can implement right away. From piloting Magic School AI to save teachers time, to leaning into clarity so staff and students know the plan, to building a positive social media presence that reflects the real work happening on campus, we break down what moved the needle. We also talk about podcasts as free professional development and how growing a learning community can lead to surprising opportunities like conference presentations and guest trainings.
If you’re a principal, an assistant principal, or a teacher eyeing the big chair, consider this an honest field guide. We share the missteps, the pivots, and the wins—so you can lead with less guesswork and more confidence. Walk away with strategies to set boundaries without losing heart, build a network that keeps you grounded, and drive a culture where clarity lowers stress and amplifies learning. If this resonates, share it with a colleague who could use a boost, then subscribe and leave a review so more leaders can find it.
Episode 21: Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
Episode 31: Dr. Darrin Peppard
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Principal JL (01:00):
Have you ever wondered what it's like to be a
principal?
And maybe you're that teacherout there or that leader out
there that's thinking aboutgetting into the principalship.
Maybe you're an assistantprincipal that's been a
principal for a while, butyou're thinking about maybe
stepping into the buildingprincipal role.
Well, that's what thisepisode's about.
This episode's going to explorewhat they don't tell you about
(01:23):
being a principal.
And these are coming from mypersonal experiences.
We'll talk about leadership,isolation in the power
community, and the things thatI've learned that I want to
share with you.
So if you ever step into thisseat, you're not blindsided by
the fact that these things arethings you need to know about
and things that you need to beable to prepare for and be able
(01:44):
to understand when you sit inthe seat of a principal ship.
I hope you guys enjoy thisepisode.
Now let's get to the show.
Today we're diving intosomething real, something that
(02:10):
every building principaleventually learns the hard way.
It's not in leadership manuals,it's not in your coursework,
and it's not something peopletalk about openly at new
principal workshops.
Today we're talking about thethings you're not prepared for
when you step into the role ofbuilding principal.
(02:31):
See, when you become a buildingprincipal, you know you're
responsible for leading yourschool.
You know you have to build aculture where teachers, staff,
assistant principals, activitydirectors, and students can
thrive.
But there's often things thatare overlooked.
As the leader, you also have toseparate yourself from those
(02:55):
that you lead.
Yes, this is probably thehardest part about being a
building principal, is when youhave to separate yourself
between the people that you leadand your role.
Because you can be friendly,but you can't really be their
friends.
And the way I understand thisor to help you understand this
is as a building principal, I'min charge of people holding them
(03:20):
accountable.
And if I'm friends with people,and it's gonna be a lot harder
to hold people accountablebecause as a friend, they're
gonna want you to maybe havefavor in them or want them to
look past some things, but youcan't do that in your leadership
role.
So that's where when you dothis role and leadership, you
have to be objective.
(03:40):
There will be toughconversations, hard calls, and
moments where responsibilityoutweighs your relationships.
And when those lines getblurred, things can get really
messy really quick.
That's why, even in bigschools, I've been a small rural
school principal, and I've alsobeen in a larger district as a
principal.
(04:01):
This is why you feel thatisolation.
Because no matter what roleyou're in, if you're in a small
school or a big school, being aprincipal is a tough job.
And part of the job is be ableto hold people accountable when
you need to, and you have tosometimes not be friends with
people because you got to beable to hold that person
accountable.
(04:21):
And I think that's the hardestpart about being a principal,
but people really don't talkabout.
So, with that, don't worrythough.
When you work in isolation, alot of times, there are things
you can do so you're not soalone or so you're not feeling
so isolated.
So, what I want you guys to dois I want you to be able to
(04:41):
create a community of principalnetworking.
Okay, you have to network inthis job.
I thought at the beginning whenI started being a principal
that I could do it on my own.
I thought, you know, I don'tneed to network, I don't have
time for it.
I if I leave my building, thebuilding's gonna explode.
I had all these thoughts go inmy head.
But you have to network, youneed people who get it, you need
(05:05):
people who understand theweight of your position and what
you're doing.
No staff member, no parents, nostudents will understand your
role because they have not beenin that seat.
Even your spouse will have ahard time.
Unless they're a principal,they won't have a hard time
understanding that role.
And so, what you want to beable to do is you want to be
able to build up fellow leadersthrough networking.
(05:29):
You want to be able to buildyour own colleague to where
fellow leaders can relate to thestress of what you're going
through, the decisions you make,the self-doubt you may have,
and the wins also that you cancelebrate with other people that
are in the same boat or thesame shoes that you're feeling.
Over the past year, I've reallymade a concentrated effort to
(05:52):
build my network through thispodcast.
I've had this podcast for awhile, but I really thought
starting in December, I reallywanted to take it to the next
level.
So I made a commitment toreally grow the podcast.
But there's something that Ilearned along the way I wasn't
prepared for.
Because as I'm going throughthis podcast, I'm actually
(06:12):
learning from other people andtaking those things and applying
them to my own work, the owneverything that I do as a
principal, not everything, butthere's things that I have taken
from guests that I've learnedfrom that I actually apply or
implement into my own work as abuild-in principal at Hastings
High School.
(06:32):
So every guest has taught mesomething.
I've always learned something,and here's some of the
highlights.
I can't get to all of them, andso I'm going to just give you a
couple of highlights that Iwill talk about because I can be
here for two hours if I want totalk about every guest on this
show and what I've learned fromthem.
So from episode 14, I talked toPrincipal Mo.
(06:55):
And during that episode, Ilearned about a thing called
Magic School AI.
Well, I took that information,I actually brought Magic School
in as a pilot.
My teachers loved it, and weactually implemented that this
year.
So that was something that Ilearned from episode 14, having
the conversation with PrincipalMo.
Now, episode 21 with Dr.
(07:17):
Joe San Filippo, I read hisbook, Hacking Leadership.
So I understood about tellingyour story, you know, share your
narrative because if you don't,other people will.
And so having him on the showwas nice because I was able to
reinforce some of the thingsthat I have learned through some
of his workshops and throughsome of the things he's done.
(07:38):
So bringing him on the show andlearning about some of the
great things that he has done,but also being able to
understand if you don't tellyour story, someone else will.
So you might as well do that.
And that's where we built areally strong social media
presence in the last three tofour years now, where now you
see all the positive things arehappening at our school, which
(07:59):
is really great.
So that's another thing that Ilearned through this podcast.
I had guests Dr.
Darren Peppard and Casey Watts.
So episode 31 and 36, theyreally leaned into the clarity
piece.
They really talk about bringingclarity to your staff, to your
students, to the people that youlead, because you can't lead
without it.
(08:20):
And so, really, those arethings I started thinking about
how can I bring clarity to myjob, to my role, to the people
that I have.
So I actually startedcommunicating better just
because I had these people on mypodcast and I was able to share
those things that I learnedfrom them.
And the number one person Iwould say I learned the most
from was Coach Angela Kelly.
(08:42):
Because before I even startedthe podcast, I actually was
talking to her.
She's a life coach, she's beena principal, she sat in a seat
and learning some of the thingsabout how to balance your work
life, how to you know strengthenyour leadership skills as
you're balancing it, how to, youknow, organize your calendar,
(09:03):
how to there's a lot of thingsthat I learned.
But that person also helped mefind a way to get through and be
able to take that next step inmy leadership, but also in my
(09:31):
career.
And that's where I landed a jobat Hastings High because of her
experience and her coaching meup to do that.
And I really appreciate uhAngela Kelly for that.
And also through that process,I was inspired by her podcast to
start a podcast because Iwanted to share other people's
stories and I wanted people tolearn the things that I learned
(09:53):
so they didn't have to learn thehard way on some of those
things.
So those are just four people,or five people actually, that
through just interviewing andhaving them on the show that I
learned from, and I'm able totake those things and apply it
to my actual job.
So that was a great thing thatI learned, and that's part of
that network.
And I'm able to meet people,not just statewide, regionwide,
(10:17):
I'm also meeting peoplenationally and seeing all the
cool things other people aredoing, and how could I bring
those things into my ownleadership and to the building
that I lead as well?
So the next thing I want totalk about is I've learned being
a podcaster, it's made me abetter principal.
So these things that I'mlearning from, I'm becoming a
(10:39):
better principal because of it.
And actually, what I call it isfree professional development.
So I had a guest named JoshTavar on my show.
He's from the PGP podcast, andhe says that podcasts are free
PD because you may not have thebudget, you may need to find
ways to get professionaldevelopment, and podcasts are
(11:00):
really great.
And I'll be honest, he's rightabout that.
Those are things you need toknow.
I'm not just pumping up mypodcast, but there's other
people out there that I've beena part of their podcast as well,
such as Transforming LivesPodcasts, leaning into
leadership, out of the trenches,building a culture of
collaboration, and the EmpoweredPrinciples podcast.
All these have been guests on,they've been guests on mine, and
(11:23):
there's a lot of people outthere, like the Proud Principles
podcast, two principles.
There's a lot of them outthere.
I would suggest you guys take alook at them because there's
something for everybody outthere.
The Aspiring Principles podcastwith Dr.
Donovan Small is another greatone as well.
Also, catching up with Casey isalso a good one as well.
I could go rattle off a bunchmore, I'm but I'll I could be
(11:46):
here all day doing that.
So there's some other podcastsI would strongly recommend.
You guys going out and checkingthose out because they are free
PD, those are things you don'thave to pay for, they're there
for you, and it's for somethingthat builds you and make you
better.
And apply some of the knowledgethat you learn from them, and
that's what I do just by doingthis podcast.
These opportunities that I'vehad by interviewing people,
(12:10):
going on their podcasts, hasopened the doors for things that
I never thought were possible.
I always thought it'd be coolto like be a guest speaker, or
it'd be cool to present at aconference.
And guess what?
I'm gonna start doing I'mactually, you know, going to be
presenting at the Nebraska StatePrincipals Conference in
December, which I'm totallyexcited about.
(12:31):
So I'm really excited to takethat next step to see how I
could help other educationalleaders become better.
And I also, because I was onthe PGP podcast with Josh Tavar,
I met a man named Adam Lane,and this guy has given me the
opportunity to be a guestspeaker for an online training
for the Nevada EducatorsAssociation.
(12:51):
So I'm really excited aboutthat opportunity as well.
And I've never thought a fewyears ago that I'd be sitting in
the seat that I am, and it'sall because I decided to commit
to this podcast and learn fromother people, share their
stories, and try to help otherpeople.
And that's my goal.
And I want to help othereducational leaders because they
(13:12):
may be sitting out in thatcornfield like I was about four
years ago, and needing that, youknow, some professional
development, figuring out a wayto grow in their role.
Because the people around youare great.
Don't get me wrong.
I have great administratorsaround me, I have great support
around me.
But you know what?
You just need people from theoutside's perspective to help
(13:32):
you with those things.
And when you learn from theoutside, there's things that you
can bring in to help yourschool become the best they can
be.
And as leaders, if we take thebest of what other everybody
else is doing, and you can bringthem in and you can actually
make it work for you, that'sbuilding a strong leadership
foundation for you to do wellwith the things that you have
(13:54):
and have going for your school.
So to my fellow principals andaspiring leaders out there,
remember this you won't beprepared for everything.
That's okay.
Leadership can feel isolating,that's normal.
But you don't have to be alone,it's a choice.
So I challenge you to not sitthere in isolation, but to find
(14:16):
a community that you can learnwith and helps you stay
grounded.
Because when you grow, yourschool grows as well.
There you guys have it.
You know, another you know,episode in the book for
educational leadership podcast.
I hope you guys enjoyed thisepisode and you think of
somebody out there that mightlike to hear this episode, I'd
(14:38):
ask you to please share it.
I'd also ask you to subscribeto this podcast on your favorite
platform so you don't missanother exciting episode because
you never know what I gotcoming out.
You know, I got some greatguests coming up, so I don't
want you to miss anything youmay want to hear in the future.
And so with that said, alwaysbe curious and one percent
(15:01):
better.
Have you ever wondered what it's like to be a
principal?
And maybe you're that teacherout there or that leader out
there that's thinking aboutgetting into the principalship.
Maybe you're an assistantprincipal that's been a
principal for a while, butyou're thinking about maybe
stepping into the buildingprincipal role.
Well, that's what thisepisode's about.
This episode's going to explorewhat they don't tell you about
(01:23):
being a principal.
And these are coming from mypersonal experiences.
We'll talk about leadership,isolation in the power
community, and the things thatI've learned that I want to
share with you.
So if you ever step into thisseat, you're not blindsided by
the fact that these things arethings you need to know about
and things that you need to beable to prepare for and be able
(01:44):
to understand when you sit inthe seat of a principal ship.
I hope you guys enjoy thisepisode.
Now let's get to the show.
Today we're diving intosomething real, something that
(02:10):
every building principaleventually learns the hard way.
It's not in leadership manuals,it's not in your coursework,
and it's not something peopletalk about openly at new
principal workshops.
Today we're talking about thethings you're not prepared for
when you step into the role ofbuilding principal.
(02:31):
See, when you become a buildingprincipal, you know you're
responsible for leading yourschool.
You know you have to build aculture where teachers, staff,
assistant principals, activitydirectors, and students can
thrive.
But there's often things thatare overlooked.
As the leader, you also have toseparate yourself from those
(02:55):
that you lead.
Yes, this is probably thehardest part about being a
building principal, is when youhave to separate yourself
between the people that you leadand your role.
Because you can be friendly,but you can't really be their
friends.
And the way I understand thisor to help you understand this
is as a building principal, I'min charge of people holding them
(03:20):
accountable.
And if I'm friends with people,and it's gonna be a lot harder
to hold people accountablebecause as a friend, they're
gonna want you to maybe havefavor in them or want them to
look past some things, but youcan't do that in your leadership
role.
So that's where when you dothis role and leadership, you
have to be objective.
(03:40):
There will be toughconversations, hard calls, and
moments where responsibilityoutweighs your relationships.
And when those lines getblurred, things can get really
messy really quick.
That's why, even in bigschools, I've been a small rural
school principal, and I've alsobeen in a larger district as a
principal.
(04:01):
This is why you feel thatisolation.
Because no matter what roleyou're in, if you're in a small
school or a big school, being aprincipal is a tough job.
And part of the job is be ableto hold people accountable when
you need to, and you have tosometimes not be friends with
people because you got to beable to hold that person
accountable.
(04:21):
And I think that's the hardestpart about being a principal,
but people really don't talkabout.
So, with that, don't worrythough.
When you work in isolation, alot of times, there are things
you can do so you're not soalone or so you're not feeling
so isolated.
So, what I want you guys to dois I want you to be able to
(04:41):
create a community of principalnetworking.
Okay, you have to network inthis job.
I thought at the beginning whenI started being a principal
that I could do it on my own.
I thought, you know, I don'tneed to network, I don't have
time for it.
I if I leave my building, thebuilding's gonna explode.
I had all these thoughts go inmy head.
But you have to network, youneed people who get it, you need
(05:05):
people who understand theweight of your position and what
you're doing.
No staff member, no parents, nostudents will understand your
role because they have not beenin that seat.
Even your spouse will have ahard time.
Unless they're a principal,they won't have a hard time
understanding that role.
And so, what you want to beable to do is you want to be
able to build up fellow leadersthrough networking.
(05:29):
You want to be able to buildyour own colleague to where
fellow leaders can relate to thestress of what you're going
through, the decisions you make,the self-doubt you may have,
and the wins also that you cancelebrate with other people that
are in the same boat or thesame shoes that you're feeling.
Over the past year, I've reallymade a concentrated effort to
(05:52):
build my network through thispodcast.
I've had this podcast for awhile, but I really thought
starting in December, I reallywanted to take it to the next
level.
So I made a commitment toreally grow the podcast.
But there's something that Ilearned along the way I wasn't
prepared for.
Because as I'm going throughthis podcast, I'm actually
(06:12):
learning from other people andtaking those things and applying
them to my own work, the owneverything that I do as a
principal, not everything, butthere's things that I have taken
from guests that I've learnedfrom that I actually apply or
implement into my own work as abuild-in principal at Hastings
High School.
(06:32):
So every guest has taught mesomething.
I've always learned something,and here's some of the
highlights.
I can't get to all of them, andso I'm going to just give you a
couple of highlights that Iwill talk about because I can be
here for two hours if I want totalk about every guest on this
show and what I've learned fromthem.
So from episode 14, I talked toPrincipal Mo.
(06:55):
And during that episode, Ilearned about a thing called
Magic School AI.
Well, I took that information,I actually brought Magic School
in as a pilot.
My teachers loved it, and weactually implemented that this
year.
So that was something that Ilearned from episode 14, having
the conversation with PrincipalMo.
Now, episode 21 with Dr.
(07:17):
Joe San Filippo, I read hisbook, Hacking Leadership.
So I understood about tellingyour story, you know, share your
narrative because if you don't,other people will.
And so having him on the showwas nice because I was able to
reinforce some of the thingsthat I have learned through some
of his workshops and throughsome of the things he's done.
(07:38):
So bringing him on the show andlearning about some of the
great things that he has done,but also being able to
understand if you don't tellyour story, someone else will.
So you might as well do that.
And that's where we built areally strong social media
presence in the last three tofour years now, where now you
see all the positive things arehappening at our school, which
(07:59):
is really great.
So that's another thing that Ilearned through this podcast.
I had guests Dr.
Darren Peppard and Casey Watts.
So episode 31 and 36, theyreally leaned into the clarity
piece.
They really talk about bringingclarity to your staff, to your
students, to the people that youlead, because you can't lead
without it.
(08:20):
And so, really, those arethings I started thinking about
how can I bring clarity to myjob, to my role, to the people
that I have.
So I actually startedcommunicating better just
because I had these people on mypodcast and I was able to share
those things that I learnedfrom them.
And the number one person Iwould say I learned the most
from was Coach Angela Kelly.
(08:42):
Because before I even startedthe podcast, I actually was
talking to her.
She's a life coach, she's beena principal, she sat in a seat
and learning some of the thingsabout how to balance your work
life, how to you know strengthenyour leadership skills as
you're balancing it, how to, youknow, organize your calendar,
(09:03):
how to there's a lot of thingsthat I learned.
But that person also helped mefind a way to get through and be
able to take that next step inmy leadership, but also in my
(09:31):
career.
And that's where I landed a jobat Hastings High because of her
experience and her coaching meup to do that.
And I really appreciate uhAngela Kelly for that.
And also through that process,I was inspired by her podcast to
start a podcast because Iwanted to share other people's
stories and I wanted people tolearn the things that I learned
(09:53):
so they didn't have to learn thehard way on some of those
things.
So those are just four people,or five people actually, that
through just interviewing andhaving them on the show that I
learned from, and I'm able totake those things and apply it
to my actual job.
So that was a great thing thatI learned, and that's part of
that network.
And I'm able to meet people,not just statewide, regionwide,
(10:17):
I'm also meeting peoplenationally and seeing all the
cool things other people aredoing, and how could I bring
those things into my ownleadership and to the building
that I lead as well?
So the next thing I want totalk about is I've learned being
a podcaster, it's made me abetter principal.
So these things that I'mlearning from, I'm becoming a
(10:39):
better principal because of it.
And actually, what I call it isfree professional development.
So I had a guest named JoshTavar on my show.
He's from the PGP podcast, andhe says that podcasts are free
PD because you may not have thebudget, you may need to find
ways to get professionaldevelopment, and podcasts are
(11:00):
really great.
And I'll be honest, he's rightabout that.
Those are things you need toknow.
I'm not just pumping up mypodcast, but there's other
people out there that I've beena part of their podcast as well,
such as Transforming LivesPodcasts, leaning into
leadership, out of the trenches,building a culture of
collaboration, and the EmpoweredPrinciples podcast.
All these have been guests on,they've been guests on mine, and
(11:23):
there's a lot of people outthere, like the Proud Principles
podcast, two principles.
There's a lot of them outthere.
I would suggest you guys take alook at them because there's
something for everybody outthere.
The Aspiring Principles podcastwith Dr.
Donovan Small is another greatone as well.
Also, catching up with Casey isalso a good one as well.
I could go rattle off a bunchmore, I'm but I'll I could be
(11:46):
here all day doing that.
So there's some other podcastsI would strongly recommend.
You guys going out and checkingthose out because they are free
PD, those are things you don'thave to pay for, they're there
for you, and it's for somethingthat builds you and make you
better.
And apply some of the knowledgethat you learn from them, and
that's what I do just by doingthis podcast.
These opportunities that I'vehad by interviewing people,
(12:10):
going on their podcasts, hasopened the doors for things that
I never thought were possible.
I always thought it'd be coolto like be a guest speaker, or
it'd be cool to present at aconference.
And guess what?
I'm gonna start doing I'mactually, you know, going to be
presenting at the Nebraska StatePrincipals Conference in
December, which I'm totallyexcited about.
(12:31):
So I'm really excited to takethat next step to see how I
could help other educationalleaders become better.
And I also, because I was onthe PGP podcast with Josh Tavar,
I met a man named Adam Lane,and this guy has given me the
opportunity to be a guestspeaker for an online training
for the Nevada EducatorsAssociation.
(12:51):
So I'm really excited aboutthat opportunity as well.
And I've never thought a fewyears ago that I'd be sitting in
the seat that I am, and it'sall because I decided to commit
to this podcast and learn fromother people, share their
stories, and try to help otherpeople.
And that's my goal.
And I want to help othereducational leaders because they
(13:12):
may be sitting out in thatcornfield like I was about four
years ago, and needing that, youknow, some professional
development, figuring out a wayto grow in their role.
Because the people around youare great.
Don't get me wrong.
I have great administratorsaround me, I have great support
around me.
But you know what?
You just need people from theoutside's perspective to help
(13:32):
you with those things.
And when you learn from theoutside, there's things that you
can bring in to help yourschool become the best they can
be.
And as leaders, if we take thebest of what other everybody
else is doing, and you can bringthem in and you can actually
make it work for you, that'sbuilding a strong leadership
foundation for you to do wellwith the things that you have
(13:54):
and have going for your school.
So to my fellow principals andaspiring leaders out there,
remember this you won't beprepared for everything.
That's okay.
Leadership can feel isolating,that's normal.
But you don't have to be alone,it's a choice.
So I challenge you to not sitthere in isolation, but to find
(14:16):
a community that you can learnwith and helps you stay
grounded.
Because when you grow, yourschool grows as well.
There you guys have it.
You know, another you know,episode in the book for
educational leadership podcast.
I hope you guys enjoyed thisepisode and you think of
somebody out there that mightlike to hear this episode, I'd
(14:38):
ask you to please share it.
I'd also ask you to subscribeto this podcast on your favorite
platform so you don't missanother exciting episode because
you never know what I gotcoming out.
You know, I got some greatguests coming up, so I don't
want you to miss anything youmay want to hear in the future.
And so with that said, alwaysbe curious and one percent
(15:01):
better.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.