Episode 49: Proud Principal: Tony Cattani's Leadership Journey

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Doors closed, minds open or the other way around? Our conversation with NASSP’s 2025 National Principal of the Year, Tony Cattani, pulls back the curtain on how a large high school built a culture where teachers learn from teachers every single day. Tony walks us through the exact system that turned isolation into collective efficacy: a strengths inventory across four core areas, 25-minute targeted classroom visits, collegiality cafes that showcase teacher-designed practices, and a simple feedback loop that amplifies wins to supervisors and the entire staff.

We get personal, too. Tony shares the moment he nearly quit, why trying to be the hero almost broke him, and how vulnerability and intentional routines brought joy and effectiveness back to the job. From hiring for strengths to weekly shout-outs, he shows how recognition can be both precise and public—fueling a schoolwide appetite for better classroom management, dynamic lesson design, checks for understanding, and growth mindset. The result? More than 4,000 peer observations, richer cross-department collaboration, and teachers who feel seen for the 39,000 minutes a year when craft usually goes unnoticed.

Beyond instructional culture, Tony digs into future-facing work: AI integration that supports planning and feedback, student and staff leadership academies that cultivate confidence, and robust career pathways—from welding to health services—aligned with the four E’s: enrolled, enlisted, employed, and entrepreneur. He also shares why he launched the Proud Principals Podcast and how connecting leaders across the country accelerates innovation back home.

If you’re a principal or teacher who wants practical, repeatable steps to improve instruction and morale without gimmicks, this is your playbook. Subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review telling us which strategy you’ll try first—we’ll shout out our favorite takeaways next week.

Connect with Tony Cattani:

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Instagram: @tonycattaniproudprincipal

X: @CattaniTony

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Episode Transcript

Principal JL (01:01):
Today I'm excited to bring Tony Cattani on the
show.
Tony has spent 27 years ineducation, 22 of those in
administration, and the past 19years leading Lenape High School
in Medford, New Jersey.
This past summer, he was namedthe 2025 National Principal of

(01:22):
the Year by the NationalAssociation of Secondary School
Principals.
He is known nationally for agroundbreaking peer observation
model that's generated more than3,000 teacher visits, igniting
collective efficacy, and createda culture where everyone, and I
mean everyone, grows together.

(01:43):
From collegiality cafes topopcorn lesson invitations, Tony
has built something trulyspecial.
Tony is also the host of theProud Principals Podcast, where
he shines a spotlight oneducational leaders across the
country.
Now let's get to ourconversation with the Proud
Principal himself, Tony Cattani.

(02:05):
Welcome back, everybody, toanother exciting episode of the
Educational Leadership Podcast.
Today I am so excited to getTony Cattani on the show.

(02:25):
He is the 2025 Principal of theYear for the NSA NASSP.
And Tony, welcome to the show.

Tony Cattani (02:33):
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm super excited to be herewith you, Jeff.

Principal JL (02:37):
Awesome.
Well, Tony, I'm gonna go aheadand jump right in.

Tony Cattani (02:40):
Let's do it.

Principal JL (02:41):
I asked a question to everybody on the show.
What inspired you to become aneducator?

Tony Cattani (02:47):
I'll tell you, I I've told this to her a few
times lately where um I reallydidn't went to college not
thinking I was gonna be aneducator.
I wanted to work in thebusiness field.
And I had an opportunity when Iwas playing football at Rowan
University here in South Jersey.
My my coach put me into anevent for Special Olympics,
working with some young folks.
And I felt like I was beingreally helpful and I felt like I

(03:09):
liked what I was doing.
And after like two or threedifferent events, my coach Casey
Killer, who's now the headcoach at Temple football, said,
I think, I think you might wantto think about being a teacher
and a coach, man.
Like you're you're pretty goodwith those kids.
You have a nice way about you.
And I never saw myself as that.
My father, mother, sister,grandmother, nobody in my family
was a teacher.
And I never really saw it.

(03:29):
I didn't really love highschool education.
I loved high school sports, butI really didn't love school
like going there every day.
And so I listened to what hesaid.
I thought he was a wise man,and I went into the field and
started interacting with somepeople, and I just picked up on
their energy and started to fallin love with it and helping
people and teaching andcoaching.
And the next thing I know, man,I'm I'm teaching in South

(03:50):
Jersey at Cherokee High Schooland then administrator at
Shawnee High School, then aprincipal for the last 19 years
at Lenape High School, and nowthe national principal of the
year.
So it's been a whirlwind.
Uh, this was never part of theplan.
None of this was ever part ofthe plan.

Principal JL (04:04):
Yeah, I mean, just like a lot of people that have
on the show, we really, it'skind of like education wasn't
like the first thing that we'rethinking about.
Hey, I want to go, I wanted tobe a physical therapist.
I thought maybe going to be atrainer at like a professional
football team would be like mycall-in, but learn that really,
you know, go through coachingkind of similar to my experience

(04:24):
as well.
Is that kind of what got droveme into education?
So, Tony, what subject area didyou teach?
What levels did you teach, youknow, when you were a teacher?

Tony Cattani (04:33):
Yeah, so my first year I started as an in-school
suspension director, right?
Because they were kind of had aspot.
So I sat with kids that were inschool, in-school suspension.
I sat with them for six hours aday.
And it really helped me.
I look back on it, it didn'tmake sense to me when I was
doing it, to be honest with you,Jeff, right?
Like, why am I doing this?
I'm a health and physicaleducation major, a health and
exercise science major fromRowan.
And that's what I wanted toteach and coach and do,

(04:53):
particularly health.
But I was in-school suspensiondirector my first year.
So I got to work with kids,help them in a variety of
different areas, whether it'smath, social studies, history,
or just listen to them and tryto better understand them.
I was with them for 180 days,six hours a day.
And then I taught senior healthand a little bit of physical
education, but I really leanedtowards the health.
I really wanted to be in thehealth classroom.

(05:14):
I felt like teaching freshmenand senior health, I could
really connect with the kids andI loved it.
But I only taught for fouryears.
I was in the classroom fiveyears, including the in school
suspension directory year.
And then I was right intoadministration at the age of
like 29 years old for threeyears as an assistant principal
and then 19 years as principal.

Principal JL (05:32):
Awesome.
Yeah, there's a lot ofparallels there.
Like, you know, like I was aphysical education teacher and a
math teacher.
Okay.
Um, I didn't teach a lot ofphysical education, but I taught
a lot of math.
Okay.
I got my jobs because I was amath background, not because I
was PE uh background, but it didhelp me with the coaching and
things like that.
So that's really interesting.

(05:53):
With that experience, withthat, you know, the one year as
a ISS director and then fouryears as a physical educator.
What are some things that youlearned as a teacher that helped
you when you became thatassistant principal down the
road?

Tony Cattani (06:11):
Oh, well, I think in school suspension was pivotal
for me about just listening toevery kid and all and finding
out their stories, right?
I one, I had no other choicesitting in a room with these
students for such a long periodof time, but I wanted to learn a
little bit more about them andhear their story and sometimes
why they were there or what howthey can make better decisions
and how we could educateindividuals.

(06:31):
And it really gave me, it wasalmost like a counseling session
for them, but they were almostlike a little bit of a lab
experiment for me.
And then when I when I was ableto get classroom and do some
teaching, it was different todiversify my abilities to engage
students in different ways andtry to be super creative.
And I wanted students to enjoymy class.
The the funny part is, youknow, I thought I was a really

(06:52):
good teacher until I became anadministrator and I saw a lot of
other teachers doing amazingthings and I knew I could have
been better.
But in the same way, I think itprepared me on a variety of
levels.
Coaching, I was coachingfootball at the time, running
the weight room, involved in acouple different clubs there at
Cherokee, loving my experience,uh, the school spirit, seeing
what kids really wanted.
I had a ton of experiences thatreally led me to be where I am

(07:13):
today.

Principal JL (07:14):
Awesome, awesome.
I love that.
So you're teaching, you've doneit for five years now.
What was it that goes, you knowwhat?
I think becoming anadministrator is a great idea.
Was it someone that inspiredyou?
Was it a tap on the shoulder?
Like, how was it you go fromhey, I'm a PE teacher, I'm
loving what I'm doing, I'mcoaching, I'm doing all these
fun things, to hey, you know,I'm gonna become a principal

(07:37):
down the road here.
What was that for you?
So I like for you.

Tony Cattani (07:40):
It's funny, Jeff.
Like, so after I graduated fromRowan University, I had an
opportunity to be a graduateassistant at Rowan for their
football program.
Casey Keeler invited me back,and I said, Coach, I'm I'm done
with college.
I want to go teach, I want tomake some money.
And he invited me to be agraduate assistant, but I had to
get a master's.
And he said to me, Well, youshould get a master's in school
administration.
Someday you could be anathletic director, right?

(08:02):
Don't limit yourself.
And that's I was like, Coach, Idon't know if I want to go back
to classes, whatever.
And I ended up getting themaster's, going into getting my
master's that first year ofstarting that, but it wasn't an
athletic director.
It was an uh educationalleadership at Rowan University.
And then when I went toCherokee the following year,
after I said, GA is not for me,I'm not going to coach college
football the rest of my life.
I started doing projects atCherokee to complete my master's

(08:24):
degree.
And I started working with somereally strong leaders in the
building at Cherokee High Schooland seeing what they were
doing.
And at a young age, I felt likeI could do this, I could have a
really big impact.
I I always liked being someonethat had my hands in things,
that had some decision making.
I liked that people felt thatthey could come to me and I
could support them.
I was a quarterback, and Ithink that was just inbred into

(08:47):
me of one, celebrating otherpeople, taking responsibility
for other people's shortcomingsat times, right?
Sometimes getting the praise,but also getting, you know, the
booze when we lost.
And I felt like I was able, Ihad the thick skin and I was
built that way since I was alittle kid of being quarterback
since I was six years old.
And I felt like I always wantedto be the quarterback of the
team.
I wanted to have my hands andmy brains involved and helping

(09:08):
make decisions and helpingpeople be successful as a team.
And I felt like I've I'vealways been a pretty good team
player, pretty humble, and don'tneed to be out front to lead,
but I'm willing to be out frontas well.
So I think there were momentswhen I was uh, you know, working
my first and second year atCherokee that they were putting
me some really good spots toreally diversify my

(09:29):
opportunities, whether workingthrough helping assist the
senior trip planning to a promto working on conduct to
assisting in professionaldevelopment, but just being
involved and learning differentparts of the building.
And I think it really impairedme.

Principal JL (09:42):
Awesome.
I really love that.
So you were assistantprincipal, if I remember right,
for how many years?

Tony Cattani (09:49):
Yep, three years.

Principal JL (09:50):
Three years in those three years as an
assistant principal, because weall know being assistant
principal is a little differentthan a building principal.
What are some lessons youlearned in those three years as
assistant principal that helpedyou as a building level
principal?

Tony Cattani (10:03):
Yeah, so as a health and physical education
person, they transferred me to adifferent school so I could cut
my teeth at a different schooland develop my leadership skills
versus being you know thatyoung buck at my original
school.
And I didn't like it at first.
But one of the things I learnedwas that as a health and um
health and exercise sciencemajor, I was in charge of the
first year, 29 years old, familyconsumer science, business

(10:26):
technology, security,graduation, 400 kids in the
freshman class, health andphysical education department,
right?
And a ton of other smallresponsibilities, running the
pep rallies, and I had a lot ofthings.
And I think one of the things Ireally learned was that while I
didn't have the content forbusiness tech or family consumer
science, I was gonna work mytail off on learning it because

(10:47):
it was important for my staff toknow that I was vested in them
and I could be the mouthpiecefor them at my district level if
I needed to make curricularchanges or something
instructionally for them, butalso that I was gonna be there

(11:15):
to better our our students'opportunities at Shawnee when I
was there.
And it really provided a workethic for me of developing that
of even though I had a chip onmy shoulder because you know you
were called like the gymteacher, and now I'm sudden
leading up business, tech, andfamily consumer science.
And I sat around people thatwere business and tech and
family consumer science andteachers and supervisors for

(11:36):
years.
And I was young and notexperienced, I was inexperienced
in some of those areas, but Iwasn't gonna let my school down
or my teachers down.
So I worked really hard tolearn and educate myself through
that process.
And I felt like I've done thatthrough my career, right?
There's always something new tolearn, but I never wanted to be
that guy to table that wasn'twell versed in those things, and

(11:57):
I was gonna do everything in mypower to do that.
So I think that's one of themain things I learned that I I
don't have to have acontent-specific area to be
successful.
I feel like I can work throughsome of those things and uh I
can just continue to grow as aprofessional.

Principal JL (12:12):
Yeah, I know one thing for me, like my story is I
I have never been an assistantprincipal.
I went straight from teacher tobuilding principal, but I went
to a small school out in themiddle of a cornfield in
Nebraska.
So I wasn't, you know, it wasone of those things, it was just
one of those things that justhappened.
I wasn't planning on it thatway.
So I've always been at thebuilding level, but as a small

(12:34):
rural, I had a lot of assistantprincipal type duties on top of
building principal type dutieson top of like cabinet level
position duties.
Now I'm at the high school I'mat.
Now I have a team of people,which is so much better than it
was when I was at my my ruralschool as a principal.
Go ahead.

Tony Cattani (12:52):
I'll tell you this though.
Here's something else I learnedI should really lead with was I
was approved uh to be theassistant principal Shawnee on
June 30th, 2004, at 7:30 atnight, right?
Late, late decision 2000.
So June 30th, 2004, at 7:30 atnight, I was assistant principal
at 7:42 that same night.

(13:14):
I became a father for the firsttime, right?
Oh wow.
So I was becoming an assistantprincipal in administration and
becoming a father 12 minuteslater, right?
And so trying to balance andwork through that process was
insane to be to be very honestwith you.
So I learned a lot aboutmyself, my wife, my wonderful
wife, Kate, and then growing myfamily in the administration.

(13:34):
They don't know me as anythingelse other than you know, dad,
the administrator, right?
The assistant principal toprincipal.
So it was a whirlwind oflearning uh those first couple
of years as a father, as anadministrator, as a school
leader, curricular person, but Iwanted to be seen as a
instructional leader.
That was one of my main things.
I knew I could do the spiritstuff and I could, I was

(13:55):
organized and I was going tooutwork a lot of people, but I
wanted to be seen as aninstructional leader, and that
part of my life really preparedme for what I'm doing now.

Principal JL (14:04):
Awesome.
Yeah, I was I had the luxury toteach my oldest daughter
algebra one.

Tony Cattani (14:10):
Okay.

Principal JL (14:11):
My second daughter, she got to see me.
I never taught her, but I hadher, she was I was a principal
when I became a principal, shewas a junior in high school, and
then now I've an 11-year-old.
That's all good.
She's gonna know me as is aprincipal.
So uh so it's kind of a unique,you know, things where if
you've never taught your kid,that's a whole nother experience

(14:31):
on its own.
So I really appreciate yousharing that story because that
really, you know, when you wereraising kids and you're having a
balanced family and doing thiswork, it's not easy, and it's
something that could take a tollon you.
So yeah, I mean, I'm prettysure there's other people out
there that are you know doingthose same things, and how do we
do this?

(14:51):
And that's kind of why thispodcast exists, right?
We learn from each other andhow to help each other learn and
grow.
So you went from assistantprincipal to the principal at
Lenape High.
How did that happen?
What was the story behind it?
What got you to Lenape?

Tony Cattani (15:07):
Oh man, what got me to Lenape?
So I'll tell you this leavingCherokee, I never wanted to
leave Cherokee.
I I did my student teachingthere, then I became a print a
teacher there, and I loved it.
Loved I moved my I moved intothe town, my wife and I got
married to be part of thecommunity.
Then I get sipped to Shawnee,which I didn't want to go to
originally.
I told the my HR person, I'mnot, I didn't want to go.
But then I moved to Medford.

(15:28):
I moved my wife to Medford, andthen she has a baby on the
first day, right?
The first day I'madministrator, and we lived in
Medford.
I wanted to be part of thecommunity.
And then I was pulled in by mysuperintendent three years later
and said, You're gonna be theprincipal of Lenape High School.
I said, I don't want to be theprincipal of Lenape High School.
I'm just learning the gig as asystem principal.
Like I'm the water is startingto drop a little bit, and I can
do some really creative thingsand make it feel like I'm making

(15:50):
a really good impact atShawnee.
She's like, it's time for youto become a principal.
We need you at Lenape.
And there and behold, I was Iwas moved to Lenape back in
2007, and I was given a task ofyou know trying to enhance that
building and do the things Icould do that they saw that I
could do.
And I was walking to areferendum of about for the

(16:12):
district, $170 million, I thinkit was at the time, maybe $150
million.
The entire building was beingrenovated, new cafeterias, new
classrooms, uh, new auditorium,tennis courts, parking lots.
I mean, you name it, hallways.
I mean, the building was thefirst day I arrived on the
scene, July 1, 2007, they werejust tractors everywhere.
They were starting to rip downthe building at the first day

(16:33):
that I walked on.
They were also, we were bigturnover and staff at that time.
And I remember the BA askingme, like, why would you want
this job with this constructionand a big staff turnover?
And I said, if I'm gonna dothis, this is the right when I
want to do it because I want tolearn all about the building.
I want to have some say aboutthe design of the building.
And two, I want to hire my ownstaff.
So I'm gonna endure this forthe next two or three years, but

(16:57):
after that, we're gonna growand be great, right?
So let me pick my staff, let mehave some say in some of the
design, and then we'll go fromthere.
And it's worked outbeautifully.
I've been able to, you know,help build and guide a culture
at Lenape that is one of caringand trying every day.
It's one where our staff arejust fantastic for you know, for

(17:17):
all the things they do.
And I always tell people I haveone of my major jobs, right?
From the Todd Whitaker, one ofthe brightest men I've ever come
across, leadership men I'veever come across, is one of my
main jobs is to hire greatteachers and make our good
teachers great.
And our teachers have boughtin, and we have a lot of success
with our students and ourcommunity and our culture.
And yeah, man, like it it wasit was fast.

(17:37):
I wasn't, I didn't think I wasready.
I wasn't ready for it when Ifirst started, but I'm ready
now.

Principal JL (17:43):
Awesome.
Yeah, I mean, that's reallygreat, you know, kind of like
the story behind it, how you gotthere.
I could not imagine walkinginto that situation.
We did a geothermal renovationjust you know, not this last
year, but the year before, andthat was a pain in my butt to
begin with, because you know,they never get things done on

(18:05):
time.
And so I'm sitting in therelike freaking out the night
before.
We're trying to bring staff ourstudents back in the building.
My building wasn't ready.
Yes, and so we were trying toget everybody on it, trying to
get the building clean, tryingto like that was like a pain in
the rear.
Having I could not imagine awhole building and doing all the
different things you had to do.

(18:26):
And man, that's that you know,I appreciate you sharing that
story because I know just alittle bit of where we did some
construction work on a buildingthat I'm currently at.
It is not always a fun time togo through.

Tony Cattani (18:39):
Yeah, no, I I've been through two referendums.
I think a total of maybe forthe district, maybe 200 and some
million dollars, you know,major, major projects in within
my building over 19 years.
But the big piece of this isthat, you know, the
superintendent time, Mrs.
Emily Capella, saw something inme that I didn't see in myself.
And I didn't have theconfidence to take over the
building at the time.
And how I started my leadershipjourney as a principal at

(19:02):
Lenape was not how I would do itnow.
And I I started trying to besomebody that I wasn't, to be
honest with you, Jeff.
And I, you know, I didn't knowhow to be that leader at the
time at 31 years old.
And I had teachers that wereteaching there for 40 years, and
they're looking at me as thisyoung buck that was a health and
physette teacher for a coupleyears with a three-year student
at Shawnee.
Now I'm going to lead thisbuilding.

(19:22):
That was the original buildingin our district of 7,000 kids
with 1900 students, 2,000students at the time.
And then all of a sudden I wassupposed to take over and I was
supposed to change the culture,make it better, all these
things.
And some of the people didn'twant me to change anything about
that building, but I was givingsome directives.
But somebody saw something inme before that more than I saw
something in myself.
And that happened as me as ateacher, then it happened to me

(19:44):
as assistant principal to becomea principal.
And now, with some of therecognition lately, people see
some things in me that sometimesI don't see in myself, to be
truthful with you.
So it's um it's been a journey.

Principal JL (19:54):
Yeah, no, that's really great because I think
that happens to a lot of us ineducation, is where somebody
sees something and says, Hey, Ithink you're meant for this type
of position or this type ofjob, and you're like going,
yeah, okay, whatever, right?
And then you start getting intoit like, well, maybe this is
something that I should do orget into as well.
So kind of talk about yourearly years in Linnep, because

(20:17):
you did kind of allude to it.
You weren't the leader you aretoday.
What was that progression like?
What are the lessons youlearned that evolved your
leadership throughout the last19 years that really is a
common, you know, really broughtyou into where you're at today,
being the national principal ofthe year?

Tony Cattani (20:35):
Yeah, Jeff, good question.
Because I don't think Iunderstood the magnitude of my
role or how I conducted myselfin formal and informal
situations.
Just walking down the hallway,I had a tough time enjoying the
moments.
Uh my mind was always onsomething.
And, you know, I think SanFilippo's Joe San Filippo, a
fantastic school leader, talksabout you're always so busy
defending the things you do, youcan't enjoy the things you do.

(20:55):
And I don't think I reallyenjoyed a lot of the moments.
I think I put the good face onan actor for the first, I would
say maybe 10 years, to be truthwith you, that I wasn't the guy
that I wanted to be, being aleader in the building.
And I learned a lot through mytime.
But there was a moment in mycareer in about 2015 through 17
where I was quitting.
I quit, I was ready to quit.

(21:15):
I went to my superintendent,said, you know, I want to
resign, put me back in theclassroom.
I don't want to be theprincipal anymore.
I'm not enjoying my job, youknow, and people didn't know it.
I went to my wife first.
I went to my, again, mysuperintendent, but not many
people knew about it.
And they kind of just said,like, you need to delegate more
because I was so micromanagingthrough so many different
things.
I felt like I could do somethings better than some of my

(21:37):
staff could and myadministrative team could.
And I wanted to be everythingto everybody.
I wanted to have like this thisuh superhero complex or God
complex.
I wanted to solve every problemfor everybody on the spot.
And I would think about it allnight and then try to do
something, and I wasn't solvingthose problems.
I was really frustrated withmyself, and that was really hard

(21:57):
for me.
And then I learned just to beone, to invest myself in my
leadership skills, and I knewthat was going to bring me
through.
And I started to become astudent of leadership, and I
started listening to the ToddWhitakers and Jimmy Casas's and
Joe San Filippo's and podcastsand reading books and talking
with people and surroundingmyself with fantastic people
like yourself, right?

(22:18):
And just engaging people inconversations about leadership
in schools and learning fromthem.
And it's hard not to match theenergy in the room when you're
when you're meeting with peoplelike that.
And it's you start to adapt tothose norms.
And it it becametransformational for me, and
where I started looking atthings a lot differently than I

(22:39):
did before.
And it just helped me grow.
And then I became morevulnerable and confident at the
same time.
It was I allowed some peopleinto my my world a little bit
where I was so isolated for solong that I was I was drowning
in my my own my own misery attimes.
And uh I found my way out byjust surrounding myself with

(23:01):
good people, and it was really,really powerful for me.
But allowing people to see mefor for me, my strengths, my
weaknesses, and telling themthat here, here's a really good
thing and here's something I'mstruggling with was was a was a
was a moment for me that reallydeveloped my leadership.
But it was around 2015 to 17.
I was ready to split, Jeff.

(23:22):
Like I was done.
I was cooked.
And for everything to turnaround in seven or eight years,
it's a long time.
But it was it's been afantastic journey for me as a as
a as an adult, as a father, asa son, as a principal, as an
educator, you name it, but Iwent through a lot of it.

Principal JL (23:42):
Appreciate you being really vulnerable there,
Tony.
I mean, that's not somethingthat you know maybe not a lot of
people know about you, but weall have those struggles.
We all have those moments.
I'll be honest, I've hadmoments where I thought about,
is this really for me?
But like you just said, if yousurround your people with the
with the type of people that canhelp you in your leadership and

(24:04):
networking and getting to learnthat, hey, you're not in this
by yourself, you're not in thisalone.
You have other people that havegone through these hard things,
and if you can learn from theirlessons, that will help save
you some heartache down the roadas well.
And so I really appreciate youreally being vulnerable and
telling us that story.
Now, with Lenape, you know,like you said, the last probably

(24:24):
seven, eight years is reallykind of your leadership has
changed, it's evolved.
You know, you started somethingand trying to tell me what
sparked the idea of peerobservation for your school,
because that's one of the thingsthat you guys have.
You have, you know, the otherthings as well, the collegiality
cafes, the popcorn lessoninvitations and things like

(24:47):
that.
So, what got that going?
What was the vision?
What sparked that for you?

Tony Cattani (24:54):
Jeff, I know this show is maybe four hours long
because I can get into it forfour more hours.
Now, I could talk about pureobservations all day, but I'll
I'll try to give you a smallsynopsis of this.
Was that you know, it kind ofrelates to kind of what I just
told you about the level ofisolation and what I spoke about
before.
The the basis of it was thiswas when I got done teaching and

(25:15):
started doing observations andas an assistant principal, I
realized that I could have beena much better teacher if I would
have seen other teachers teach,right?
And I started I because Ithought I was good until I saw
somebody else teach over andover again.
And then I saw some people thatI thought like, ah, I'm I'm
pretty good compared to them.
But I wanted, I didn't want tobe average, I wanted to be

(25:36):
better, I wanted to be the best.
And I saw that and it startedto resonate with me as a as a
principal as well, but also Ineeded my teachers to be better.
So when I would do observationformal observations of them, I
would say, you know, had youknow, I would tell them like
strategies, and I realized thatit wasn't working.
I would try to explain what youdid in your classroom.

(25:57):
Like, hey, I saw this earlier.
I wasn't giving Jeff credit,right?
I would tell them, but itdidn't resonate with them until
I realized that the bestteachers, you know, it's a vivid
explanatory device that theywant to see, right?
To help the kids connectconnect the dots.
So I started saying, you shouldgo see Jeff teach.
Right.
This is what he does as aroutine for classroom management

(26:18):
in the very beginning of theclass that could help you.
Hey, you should go seeChristina Calangelo teach.
This is how she checks forunderstanding, formative
assessment throughout the entireclass.
She's always checking atcheckpoints for her math course,
be something that could youcould really apply.
And then I started seeingteachers thinking about that and
going into the classrooms, andI knew I could I was making good

(26:40):
teachers better and more likeour best, right?
When I was sending them intoour best teachers, and it just
started to click on me like weneed to develop a system where
this is a systematic approachwhere other teachers can see
other teachers teach at theirsuperpower strength.
So I wanted to get better and Ifelt like I could have been
better, and I didn't want to reregret, I didn't want any

(27:02):
teacher regretting once they sawanother teacher teach.
If I only would have known thatearlier, I would have been a
better teacher.
So we provided thoseopportunities for our teachers
and we had teachers identifytheir greatest instructional
strength, and they were out offour areas.
It was about do they promotegrowth mindset, do they check
for understanding, do theydesign dynamic lesson designs,
or are they fantastic classroommanagers?

(27:23):
Right.
And I let them pick and theyself-reflected on it.
And then if you pickedclassroom management or you
picked dynamic lesson design,that means you didn't pick the
other three.
So you identified your strengthand you also let me know you're
not as confident in those otherthree areas.
So we said, okay, you're theexpert in that in dynamic lesson
design, but you you don't feelthat you're the expert in these

(27:45):
three.
So let's let people learn fromyou about dynamic lesson design,
and then you go learn aboutclassroom management, perhaps
growth mindset, and checking forunderstanding from other
people.
And we instantly had aninventory of all the strengths
and weaknesses of our teachersin our building.
It guided professionaldevelopment, it guided peer
observations.
Now, if I wanted to get betterat classroom management, I had a

(28:08):
list of 25 teachers they couldall go to.
All right, if they wanted toget better at checking for
understanding and assessment,they had a list of 35 teachers
they could go to.
They wanted to get better athow they promote growth mindset,
they had a list of 50 teachersthey could go to.
Whatever that was, it was itwas within our building under
our roof, personalizing theirprofessional development.
They identified their strength.

(28:30):
I had nothing to do with it.
And if you look at it with 180teachers teaching four or five
lessons, there's over 750opportunities a day to go see a
vivid explanatory model of whatsomething you want to get better

(29:26):
at.
And it just opened our doors.
And it's been hugely impactfulon our buildings collegiality,
to teachers wanting to getbetter, be more like our best.
I don't need to say, like, youhey, you know what?
Jeff did this one time.
Now I'm celebrating you, I'mextending your greatness to
other people.
People feel like aprofessional, they feel seen,

(29:47):
they feel special.
And they they, if they've ownedit, they say, I'm really good
at classroom management.
Now they better be good atclassroom management, right?
And they're doing that everyday and thinking about ways they
can enhance it because just incase another teacher comes in
and they're not evaluating them,they're learning from them.
So it's been really, reallybig.
And that's where it transformedto me.

(30:08):
I had to when I when I sharedit with them after we did a
pilot program and did apresentation to them, I did a
presentation to them, I had toshow them that I was willing to
do the same thing.
So I had principals visitingme, observing me in faculty
meetings, observing me in teammeetings.
I went and observed thembecause I told my teachers if
this is good for you, it's goodfor me.
So that's kind of where thatstarted.

(30:29):
And I started surroundingmyself with better people and
being more intentional ofgetting better as a principal.
And my teacher started gettingbetter intentionally as being a
teacher.

Principal JL (30:40):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I mean, I really love the factthat you modeled as well, and I
think that's really importantthat they see, like, you know,
like you said, you're not goingto ask them to do anything
you're not willing to do or youhaven't done yourself already.
And so I really that's kind ofthe way I lead as well, is like,
hey, anything that I ask you todo, I'm not willing to do it.
And I'll be honest with you,right now, we're rolling out

(31:03):
this reading literacy training,and it's kind of one of those we
got this grant, and this islike a push to get things done,
and it's all like we got to getit going.
And my staff is being asked todo it.
So I told my staff, you know,hey, there's gonna be things for
me to learn from it.
So I'm actually doing thereading training, even though
I'm not teaching, but I knowdown the road I'll be able to

(31:26):
inform instruction because I'vehad that reading training just
like the staff has, and itdoesn't help to get a stipend,
so there you go.
I'm that end.
So, but at the same time, youknow, I think leading modeling
your leadership as well.
Did you have some pushback whenit started?
Like, was it slow to build?
Like, well, how did that allroll out for you?

(31:48):
So because I know changes cando you know, that can be kind of
one of those things teachersdon't like change sometimes.

Tony Cattani (31:55):
Yeah, so we've been doing it about seven years.
Including, you know, thepandemic as well.
So that slowed us down a bit,but it actually helped us
because teachers started goinginto other teachers' Google
classrooms and meets andwatching them and doing what
they were doing, learning fromthem because the door is already
open.
We've done four thousand over4,000 peer observations in the
past seven, seven and a halfyears.
We so we started with a smallpilot of about 30 people, but I

(32:17):
think the people that weidentified to do it were really
influential and they werediverse over ages and content
areas.
And we I'll be straight withyou, people ask me this all the
time.
Like, I bet you were likedragging people to do peer
observations.
We really haven't.
And I'm not going to tell youwe have 100% of our people doing
it, but I bet we have 85% doingthem every year.

(32:40):
It it was an easier transitionthan I ever thought, and
probably one of the easier onesto implement.
Um, as long as you'reconsistent and intentional and
you're purposeful and you'rebought in as the principal of
the building, my staff.
I mean, we when we hiresomeone, Jeff, we ask them, we
put we give them the fourstrengths in advance.

(33:02):
They have to identify.
So when they come in for theirinterview, they have to identify
one, when I ask them, would youdo peer observations if if and
when you get hired?
Of course they're gonna sayyes.
Two, what's your instructionalstrength of the four?
They tell me they're one.
I say why.
And then I say, tell me why youdidn't choose one of these,
right?
And I ask like classroommanagement or whatever it is,

(33:22):
and they have to tell me that.
So they know walking in thatthat's an expectation for me.
And then two, we ask aboutwould you lead a collegiate
cafe, which is just a session ofteacher leading other teachers
through a dynamic design ofinstruction that they're they're
really proud of that they dowith their class that they have
a lot of success with.
And they know that from thefirst year for the past seven
years, this is the expectation.

(33:44):
But my staff really bought intoit early on and they fed off
one another and wanting to bebetter, and they were supporting
each other.
And I'll tell you this, Jeff.
I again, I could talk aboutthis all night because it's a
big project.
Was you know, you you know yourcoaches, right?
Your basketball coaches, yourfootball coaches, whatever.
When they sit around, they talkabout coaching, X's and O's,

(34:07):
Johnny's and Joes, when they'resitting at lab duty, when
they're sitting, you know, afterhours, what they're sitting in
the classroom.
You don't get that a lot ofteachers sharing collegial
instructional stuff on theirdowntime.
We started getting that.
People started sharing in theirdowntime what they were doing
in classes because they wantedmore visitors in their
classroom, I think.
And they wanted to share, like,I'm working really hard.

(34:29):
I would love for somebody tocome see me.
We started learning beforethat, we started learning from
happenstance.
Like if you had lab dutyoutside the teacher's classroom,
that they always leave theirdoor open and they're really
loud, right?
Or that a kid told you a story,like, oh, I was in uh Mr.
Katani's class, he did thisreally cool lesson.
That's the only way you heardof it.
But now, if you heard of itthat way, you may say, Hey,
Tone, can I come see your class?

(34:50):
I heard you did this reallycool activity that I could
probably implement in my algebraclass, even though you did it
in history.
But also created an environmentwhere I had teachers from
history meeting teachers fromscience that became close
friends, right?
And it shrunk my building downbecause we have such a big
staff.
It shrunk it down so they weresocially interacting a little

(35:11):
bit more versus just in theirdepartments, especially coming
out of the pandemic.
That was critical for me thatthose doors were open and people
were interacting.
So it it I didn't have a lot ofpushback.
I really didn't.
I had union members involved, Ihad veteran teachers involved
in my pilot, union members, Ihad first year teachers,
influential people.

(35:32):
I I'll be straight with you, itwas better than I thought.
Now it can't be implemented atevery school.
My schedule is very conduciveto it.
But if anything, principals arelistening to, if they do
anything, is to do the inventorycheck, and then you have an
understanding of where yourstaff is by department, by
content area, and then you canguide your PD towards that.

(35:53):
So if you have no one sayingthey're really good at checking
for understanding, light bulb,maybe you should be providing
more PD on checking forunderstanding.
And then you can elevate andcelebrate the five or six that
do say that they do, and say,hey, can you turnkey something
for us?
Maybe could you two gettogether and talk about how you
do this type of assessment, howyou check for understanding

(36:15):
every day or the beginning ofclass, middle of class, whatever
that might be, right?
Or classroom management.
I might have rock stars therethat I have 50 of them.
Well, maybe I get a couple ofthem and they lead a couple
sessions.
If anything, other than peerobservations, do that.
Just get an inventory of whereyour teachers think they are.

Principal JL (36:33):
Awesome.
Hey, I love that because whatyou're also doing is you're
building your future leaderswhile they're doing this because
they're getting theopportunities to present in
front of people, share theirknowledge, and they're probably
learning from other people, kindof like what we're doing here
today, is learning from eachother.
And so I really love whatyou've done there with the peer

(36:54):
observation and the collegialitycafes and all those popcorn
lessons and things like that.
Now, with all that, you know,happening, what did that do for
your culture in the school?

Tony Cattani (37:06):
Everything it made our teachers better, like I
said, more like our best.
It made, I always give the uhbuffalo chicken dip analogy.
I mean if I told you that.

Principal JL (37:17):
No, but I heard about it on Darren Pepper's
podcast.

Tony Cattani (37:20):
There you go.
So it's just it's just if Itold everybody I was really good
at something, like makingbuffalo chicken dip, right?
Then I better be really goodwhen they ask me to, hey, we're
having a party, bring yourbuffalo chicken dip, right?
It's just the analogy becausemy wife makes really good
buffalo chicken dip.
And it just made sense to me.
It made sense because when myteachers say they're really good
at classroom management, theydo everything to make it sure

(37:41):
it's going to be great in casesomeone comes in.
And we just started sharingmore.
We started talking more aboutinstruction.
Our teachers got better becausethey learned from our best
resources.
I have a real tough timebringing professional
development into my building,and I've seen them maybe once
before or zero times before, andthen I never see them again.

(38:01):
And the best professionaldevelopment is professional
development that is supportedand followed up on.
And when I have these one anddone's, my staff knows like this
is just a flash in the pan.
But with what we're doing withpeer observations, it's so
different.
They're seeing these peopleevery day and they have
opportunities to personalize andprofessional development.
But people have said they feelseen.

(38:23):
They feel like I work reallyhard at this craft.
And now other people arerecognizing some of my
greatness, and I work reallyhard for that.
You know, if you really look atit, you know, teachers teach in
my building about 39,000minutes a year, right?
If they're there every day,which not many are, but 39,000
minutes a year, and we do twoobservations, which is about

(38:46):
just roughly 120 minutes.
The other 38,880 minutes, noone is seeing them other than
those kids that are fantastic,but no adult is giving them
feedback or positive influenceunless you're doing
walkthroughs, which we do a tonof walkthroughs too, right?
But if not, they're doing allthat work and no one really
knows it.
And some people are really goodat doing it for the right

(39:08):
reasons, but some people alsoneed to be seen and heard and
felt.
And I think that's created somea point of emphasis for our
staff, too, that you knowthey're treated as professionals
and we're celebrating theirbest instructional repertoire
with everybody and we'reextending it, and we do it in a
variety of ways.
And if you want me to share howwe extend it even more, I can

(39:30):
do that for you too, Jeff.

Principal JL (39:32):
All right.
So, how have you extended it alittle bit more?
All right, so yeah, yeah.

Tony Cattani (39:38):
So we created a website.
So if you if you're interestedin doing a pre-observation at
Lenin B High School, ourteachers log into our protected
website and they can see on aGoogle Sheet every teacher that
is identified as classroommanagement as a different tab
for checking for understandingand so on and so forth.
So you see all the laundrylists of everybody they have

(40:01):
identified, and then it hastheir the classes that they
teach.
And you go through and say, Oh,and their content area.
Oh, well, I'm available classfour.
When they and they find theperson they want to go observe
and they go, they contact themand say, Can I come?
And we only tell them go for 25minutes of the 57-minute
period.
Just get a snippet, but onlyget the best snippet that you
want, beginning, middle, or end.

(40:23):
And that teacher will tell you,like, come at this time because
this is going to be the thatexemplar moment that you're
looking for so you can learnfrom this.
But after they're all donedoing that and they talk with
the teacher, they then write ina in our on our website, they
click on a Google form andprovide a feedback.
Hey, Jeff, it was great.
It was great seeing you inclass.
I loved how you engage thestudents in a really applicable

(41:32):
task and how you had them applyit beyond the classroom setting.
Amazing lesson.
That that snippet gets emaileddirectly to that teacher.
So they get feedback from thatteacher, right?
What we've added to is thesupervisor also gets that
snippet, right?
So now when I see Jeff walkingdown the hallway, I'm like, hey,

(41:53):
Jeff, I heard Tony was in yourclass and you did an amazing
part.
I would love to see thattomorrow or next week or
whenever you can.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about it?
You feel seen, heard, and nowit's been extended from that
teacher to your supervisor.
We take it another stepfurther, is we then I have a
things to know every Thursday.
And then my Thursday, I always,my number two thing is always

(42:14):
peer observations.
I give the link of the peerobservation website, how many
we've done, and then I giveabout five shout-outs of those
exact snippets.
Jeff, and I list and I justcopy and print from the Google
Sheet into my things to know.
So now the entire buildinghears that Jeff was celebrated
and acknowledged for this greatskill set and this great lesson

(42:37):
that this other teacher saw.
I never mentioned the otherteacher's name, right?
I just put the part of theteacher that was observed in
there.
And people talk about it.
We recognize people at ourfaculty meetings, right, for the
number of peer observationsthey do, right?
And it's like a $10 gift cardand they go nuts, right, if they
do a decent amount of peerobservations.
We get professional developmenthours, you know, for their

(42:58):
year-end evaluation if they dopeer observations.
We didn't do that for the firsttwo or three years, and we
still had 700 done in a year.
But we are always talking aboutgetting better, being more like
our best through ourpersonalized PD and peer
observations in collegiaticcafes.
And our staff is they're livingand breathing it.
And it's a large, large portionof them that do it.

(43:18):
So we're oh and we're alwayssharing at our administrative
meetings to our coordinators'meetings and sharing out some of
the great things we've seenthrough walkthroughs or through
peer observations.

Principal JL (43:29):
Awesome.
That's awesome.
I really appreciate you sharingthat.
I think you kind of take thatto a whole new level when you
have it kind of like automatedthat way and systematically put
together because that makes iteasy on the teachers to do it
because you're making it, youknow, not much more than you
know, not making it hard, you'remaking it easy to where, hey,
this is something I want you todo, and this is how I'm going to

(43:52):
support you.
And so I really appreciate yousharing that with us today,
Tony.

Tony Cattani (43:56):
One last thing, Jeff.
Like when I do a formalobservation, I always write in
the last column that we have isI I encourage you to continue to
conduct peer observations toexpand your instructional
repertoire.
I encourage you to feature toyou know focus on classroom
management and such and such.
We can talk to her in ourpost-observation about specific
teachers.
And then I give recommendationsto go see teachers.

(44:18):
And then they go and they say,Hey, Tony told me I should come
see you.
Tony said I should come rightand now those teachers feel
great about themselves that theprincipal or their assistant
principal are recognizing them,their greatness.
And I try to diversify it asmuch as I possibly can to build
some other people up, but alsolet them learn from one another.
And I so before we we rolled itout this year, we're filming

(44:39):
this in October.
I didn't really roll it outtill the first week of October.
And by the time we got there atOctober, we already had like 65
done.
Like I didn't even roll it outyet, but they were already doing
them and recording them.
So now within the first like westart after Labor Day here.
So you know, we've been inschool, I don't know, 35 days,
40 days, I don't even know, 40days, and we already have 138

(45:01):
done.
Like they just do them withminimal direction from us, so
it's great.

Principal JL (45:07):
Awesome.
So it's just a part of yourculture, it's just this is what
we do, and you know, that's kindof awesome.
It does take time to buildthose things, you know.
Being a principal, I understandthat because I'm trying to
build some here at HastingsHigh, and I'm in my fourth year,
I'm a long ways away fromgetting where we want to be, but
we're making some good strideson that.
Appreciate the work you'redoing, Tony.

(45:28):
You know, this past summeryou're out in Seattle, that's
where I really got to connectwith you for the first time.
But you were honored to be the2025 National Principal of the
Year by the NASSP.
What does this recognition meanfor you professionally and
personally?
And maybe what opportunitieshave opened up since you've been

(45:51):
named the National Principal ofthe Year?

Tony Cattani (45:53):
Well, opportunities to start with.
I'm I'm here on your podcastright now, right?
I've never been on a podcast,and now I'm on your podcast,
right?
Sharing some good stuff andtalking with people like you.
Being recognized as the NASSPsecondary school principal of
the year has has beenoverwhelming to say the least.
It was like I said, it wasnever part of the plan, but
something I feel like I'm readyfor, to be truthful with you.

(46:15):
And when I was recognized forit, I thought it was in over my
head as when I was named thestate principal of the year, and
then I was named the finalist,and I was like, this is crazy.
Like, no way could this everhappen.
And when it all came tofruition, I was taken back
emotionally.
It took me back to a variety ofdifferent parts of my life

(46:37):
where I never saw this path comein here, man.
And I've always worked reallyhard for my kids and my
community, for my family to beproud.
And we we live by somethingcalled Lenape Pride.
And we I want kids to be proudof being a Lenape student.
And I want our staff and ourcommunity to be proud.
They worked at Lenape with allof us and for their parents to
send them there.

(46:57):
That's all I ever worked hardto be.
Uh, never for a title.
I mean, the funny part aboutthis is I've never been employee
of the month at my building,right?
I've never been employee of themonth, and now I'm state
principal of the year andnational principal of the year.
My assistant principals arebusting my chops the other day.
Like, yeah, I mean you got anemployee of the month, and all
of a sudden you're nationalprincipal of the year.
It it means the world to methat I can celebrate all the

(47:18):
great things that are happeningat Lenape.
And also that I can share someof my leadership skills with
some other people that mightneed it and share my story, like
I told you a little bitearlier, just a snippet of it of
man, I was ready to quit thisprofession and be done with it.
And I stuck it through becauseI I found my I found my people
that helped me get better.
And I want to be that personfor other people.

(47:39):
You know, the Todd Whitaker,Jimmy Cossas, Joe San Filip is
of the world, people like thatthat inspired me when I heard
them talk for the first time.
I want to hopefully do that forone person and let them know
that this is a network of peopleand you don't have to be
isolated.
And this job is superisolating.
Being a teacher can beisolating, and that's why the
peer observation model is sobig.
And so can the administrativefield can be super isolating.

(48:02):
You feel like you need to be,like I said earlier, that that
God mentality, solve everybody'sproblem, all the weight of the
world's on your shoulders, andyou can see how different people
do it.
And when when you do it, it canbe really beautiful if you
surround yourself with the rightpeople.
And I have made some gooddecisions in my life.
I surround myself with goodpeople, but this recognition has
been the world to me.

(48:22):
It was, it's it's been one ofthe best moments of my life was
that moment when they read myname on there, and I was
completely taken aback when itwas said.
They give you no heads up thatyou are the person before they
say your name, but it's meant alot to me and my family, my
community.
I I could never describe it tobe to be blunt with you.
It's been overwhelming.

Principal JL (48:44):
Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing your
thoughts on that because hey,you do deserve it.
Congratulations.
I couldn't think of a betterperson to get that award uh for
this past year for sure.
So, Tony, you're not, you know,you're not just a principal,
you know, you're also thenational principal of the year,
but you have this little thingcalled the Proud Principles

(49:05):
Podcast.
And it's a podcast I'velistened to.
I've actually learned about itwhen you're doing the episode
with Dr.
Darren Peppard on the leaninginto leadership.
And so that's what got megoing, listening more of what
you're doing.
So, what really inspired you tostart the Proud Principle
Podcast?

Tony Cattani (49:25):
Yeah, I think it was all the previous things I
said, right?
The isolation of thisprofession, learning from some
of our best and sharing bestpractices to be more like our
best.
I mean, the whole philosophy ofthe peer observation model has
really fallen into my lap ofbeing of doing the podcast.
It's really the mentality thatI have that we can we can get
better by utilizing our bestresources, each other.

(49:45):
And you know, some of thesethings can be free and we can
learn from one another frompeople all across the country
that have different experiences.
And that that was one of thebig pieces.
When I started the peerobservation, I started, like I
told you, I started visitingother schools.
And, you know, people werelike, What are you gonna do with
this information?
Because I was taking notes andwriting things down.
And they were like, I said, Iwould tell them, like, share me

(50:06):
your share with me your proudesteffort.
And they would tell me, Oh, yougot to come see my my Unity
program.
You have to uh you have to comesee this program, you have to
come see how I handle thissituation, right?
And I started writing notes,and people were like, You're
gonna write a book.
I'm like, no, I don't, I don'treally write that well, so I'm
not gonna write a book.
And then my wife said, Well,you start a podcast, you know,

(50:28):
everybody else has one.
And uh, so I created a podcastand I said, Maybe I'll try it.
And I went to the NSSPconference, and not this past
year, the year before, and Istarted asking people, what are
your proud, what's your proudesteffort?
Like weird questions, walkingup to people with a microphone,
like, what's your proudestprincipal effort?
And people felt really goodabout sharing it, and it made it
changed the their mindset ofthinking about all the things

(50:50):
they defend and they're worriedabout and the negative things to
start thinking about thepositive things they do and the
impact they make.
And I could see like this theirface brighten up when they
talked about it, right?
This woman, Kim Hefner fromoutside of Chicago and Illinois,
talking about her program ofher school newspaper.
And she was like, No one's everasked me this question.
And she was sweet, she was oneof my first people.
And then the next person Iasked, right, she gims

(51:11):
fantastic.
Then I asked Andy Farley.
I had no idea who Andy Farleywas at the time.
That's the first nationalprincipal of the year I ever
met.
I found out he was nationalprincipal of the year like 12
hours later when I went to hissession.
He never told me.
But I just started talking tohim at a table and asked him his
proudest moment.
I said, if you were to presenthere, what would you present on?
He said, I'm actuallypresenting tomorrow.
And then it just started, Istarted asking more and more

(51:33):
people.
And then I started the podcaststhat I could share all these
great things that I was gettingfrom the Kim Hefners and Andy
Farleys and Matt Campbell's ofthe world from the Lenape
District and from BrantonCounty, you know, Ryan Gorman
from Cinemans, and all thesepeople.
And I just started expandingit.
And then when I was named thestate principal of the year and
I was going to go out toSeattle, I made a purpose that I
was my goal was to interviewevery state principal of the

(51:56):
year.
So I tracked them all down andI sent them an email.
And by the time I got toSeattle, I had completed, I had
set up maybe like 25 of themalready, but I had completed
maybe 10 to 15 of them.
So when I walked in there, Iknew 25 principals from across
the country.
And I felt super comfortablewith them, and they felt super
comfortable with me.
And it was my ability tonetwork and connect people

(52:17):
there, like Dr.
Matt Epps from Alabama, man,like Adam Lanco and you know,
and Lindsay Allen and LauraTobias.
I knew all these people walkingin the door, and I was able to,
you know, help them connectwith me, but also guide them,
like, oh, you Ryan Cordia fromNevada, you would love what Dr.
Matt Epps is doing.
You guys are really similar inyour CTE programs, right?
And but Lindsey Allen, youshould talk to Laura Tobias

(52:39):
about your mentoring program orwhatever, right?
Like I knew those things aboutthose people, and it changed the
dynamics of that setting inSeattle for them and for me.
And uh, I feel like I'm aconnector and I and I and I put
them first on my show.
It is all about them, it is allabout them sharing their best
practice.
I barely want to speak.
I want them to be proud of whatthey do because we don't, we're

(53:02):
not proud enough.
And we we think about the toughthe tough spots, and we I want
I want to celebrate you justlike I do my teachers.
I want to celebrate theirgreatest strength, their
greatest accomplishments withother people.
I want to do the same thingwith school leaders.

Principal JL (53:15):
Wow.
I mean, that's really awesome.
I love the fact the storybehind the Proud Principal
podcast, and I kind of like hadthe same type of thing when I
started this podcast as I'm nota good writer, but I can talk.
And so being able to bringpeople on like you, and you
know, when I was out in Seattle,I actually got to connect with
a lot of people that have beenon my show, and so that was

(53:37):
really neat.
So I kind of understand whatthat's like to just finally meet
the people that you were, youknow, doing a Zoom call or doing
a you know online interviewwith, and then finally to get to
meet them in person is eveneven better because you already
have that that instantconnection.
But I really loved how you'retalking about how you connect
people, yeah.

(53:57):
And I think that's a very greatskill to have because you're
seeing things in a big picturemode and be like, hey, I think
this person and this person canget together and they'll be good
for each other.
And I think that's a gift.
I mean, I don't thinkeverybody's got that, and I
really appreciate the gift thatyou have and that you're sharing
that with people.
So keep up that awesome work,man.
That's great.

(54:18):
So, you know, in the news,sometimes we hear all these
negative things about education.
So, is there anything positivethat you think you know of when
you think about the future ofeducation?
Is there anything that's getsyou excited, like gives you
hope?
Because I do hear the nationalnarratives, like you know,
they're down on it, but I wantto bring up some positivity.

(54:38):
What's something excites youabout doing the work that you're
doing and the future ofeducation?

Tony Cattani (54:44):
So one of the things that really excites me
just about being a principal anda school leader in my building
is that I get to try care andtry and do different things
every day with my students andstaff, almost like a laboratory,
right?
And to see well how how far wecan push people's skill set and
really make them expand theirminds.
And I love it.
Whether right now we're reallydialing in on some AI
integration with our staff.

(55:04):
I'm also I created a studentLenape Leadership Academy where
we're cultivating school leadersin our building.
And I created a curriculum andI teach the class myself, you
know, every other week.
And I'm meeting with kids andputting them in spots that for
them to be successful,presenting in front of people,
making decisions in ourbuilding.
But I'm doing the same thingwith some aspiring
administrators in my building,like a leadership academy for

(55:26):
for adults, but also creatingleaders in my building of staff.
And I think the the piece of itis that there's a lot of
untapped resources in ourbuildings right now, and that
you know, talking with theschool leaders from across the
country with the podcast andthrough the NASSP, it's just
really heartwarming that thereare so many great leaders and

(55:47):
teachers across the country thatare doing amazing things that
don't get enough credit for it,unfortunately.
And we just don't talk aboutthose stories.
We don't share them enough,right?
Because what gets on the news alot of times is the negative
stuff, then the positive stuff'sat the very end of the show
when everybody tunes out.
But I think we need to continueto control that narrative and
share the positive things thatare happening.
I'm excited about what thedirection of Lenape High School

(56:10):
is going in right now and allthe great things that our
students and staff are doing.
I'm also excited, I'm looking alot at right now of like some
career pathways.
And some people, you know, thatreally got me onto that was
some people I mentioned, likethe Lindsay Allen, Ryan and Andy
Farley about providing somecareer pathways for kids that
are looking at the healthservices.

(56:31):
And I'm interested in lookingat that.
We just started a metalfabrication program and welding
program in our building, youknow, with a program, some
dynamic teachers that we havethere, right?
And like the the Todd Whitaker,right?
It's it's people not programs,putting the right people in the
spots.
Not just the facility and theequipment you provide them, but
it's the people doing it.
And uh my buddy Lindsay has athe saying, right?
When the kids come into thebuilding, he tells the parents

(56:52):
and the kids, we want, you know,we want like three E's, and we
just added a fourth at Lenapewas, you know, we want you to
consider like what pathway areyou on?
Enrolled, the E of enrolled,enrolled in a two or four-year
college when you leave here.
Are you enlisted in one of themilitary branches?
Are you or you are youemployed, right?
That's the three E's.
So we got to figure out whatpathway.
And then we added the fourthbeing an entrepreneur, right?

(57:14):
So are you or one of thosefour?
What are those four E's do youwant to do?
And the other, the fifth Ereally is you're gonna explore
those opportunities to determinewhich one you want.
But hopefully, by like aroundyour sophomore, you're just
starting to make some things,some inroads into that and
figure that out.
So I want to better prepare ourstudents for whatever path they
want to take by providingopportunities.
And I'm learning from peopleall over the country of how

(57:36):
they're doing that.
And I'm looking to duplicatethat and make it better at Lenni
B High School for our kids andproviding our kids at Mount
Laurel those opportunities.
So that's what excites me.
But everyday leadership stuffexcites me every day, trying to
think of different ways toengage kids and engage staff to
be their very best, to providean environment where they can be
the best versions ofthemselves.

Principal JL (57:57):
Awesome.
I really appreciate that, Tony,because you know you're right.
I mean, you gotta keep learningand growing yourself.
How do you help other peoplelearn and grow uh throughout
that process?
And I really appreciate yousharing that with us.
So you talked about workingwith aspiring leaders, you know,
and that's something I keepthinking about is like, how can
I help develop my staff, theleadership skills they have

(58:21):
within my building?
So when it's time for them andthey want to get into the
administration side, they'reready for it.
So, what advice would you giveaspiring educators that want to
get into educational leadership?

Tony Cattani (58:37):
Yeah, I think there's two things.
So if we're talking aboutaspiring leaders, I think it's
you got to get involved and getexperiences in a variety of
different levels.
It's not just people want to goright to, oh, well, I've never
done conduct.
Conduct is a small piece ofbeing a school administrator.
I want to see people be aninstructional leader.
I want to see people beinginvolved in organizing,
coordinating our prom or asenior trip.
I want to see people how theyinteract with students on a

(58:59):
daily basis and you know,balance expectations with
kindness.
I I want to see provide staffto be in those roles in a
variety of roles, whether aclass advisor, a coach, that
in-school suspension director,whatever that might be, but
diverse opportunities tointeract with kids that you
don't hold a grade over, right?
That those kids are acting in acertain way because you have

(59:22):
you can give them a 79 or an 80,goes from a C to a B, and
that's how that thatrelationship is being
manipulated.
When there's no level of power,I want to see how you interact
with those with thoseindividuals.
But the biggest things I couldtell any administrator is that I
think to be intentional,intentional with the things that
you that you want to do.
And I and I've learned thatover the the several past couple

(59:44):
of years, I should say a coupleyears, is being a little bit
more intentional with mythoughts, my planning, my
schedule, of you know, whetherscheduling walkthroughs,
scheduling mentorships forstudents, for staff, you know,
scheduling time in my day that Ican try to work on some
technology, whether it's uhCanva or some AI, or it's being
intentional of celebratinggreatness in our building,

(01:00:06):
students and staff.
Super intentional with thosethings.
And I'm getting my staff to be,my administrative team to be
more intentional with their timetoo.
So I'm working that throughsome of our inspiring leaders
and really thinking about thecharacteristics of what make a
great school leader.
And that can be really definedin so many different ways, but
having them look at the some ofthe characteristics that maybe

(01:00:26):
they define or people aroundthem define, and then putting
them with people that are greatleaders as well.
So I think there's theintentionality of being a school
leader is purposeful.
Being a student of leadership,what podcasts, what books, you
know, who are you interactingwith?
Who are you, who who's yourcircle, who is that energy
you're trying to match isintentional.

(01:00:46):
The things that you're doing ona daily basis to make yourself
better is intentional.
Sometimes it just happens, butthat's not good enough.
So I think those are majorcomponents of successful school
leaders, whether aspiring orones that are currently sitting
in the seat.

Principal JL (01:01:00):
Hey, that's great advice, Tony.
I really appreciate you, youknow, sharing that out.
And really, this podcastepisode has really kind of flown
by.
I've had a lot of fun, I'velearned a lot from you.
I think we've I've even learnedmore just by having you come on
the show.
I know I've listened to yourpodcast, but I really get to

(01:01:21):
learn more about you and yourleadership and kind of all the
great things that you guys aredoing over there at Lenape High
School.
Now, Tony, there's going to bepeople that are going to be
listening to this show and theymight want to connect with you.
So if people wanted to connectwith you, how could they do
that?

Tony Cattani (01:01:38):
Yeah, I think one of the easiest ways is right
through Instagram, to be honestwith you, at Tony underscore
Katani underscore ProudPrincipal.
Um I had to change it recentlybecause I had Proud Principal's
podcast and people were sayingthey didn't know how to find
Tony Katani.
So I changed it just recentlyon Instagram.
So you can find me there onInstagram.
You know, hit me up, DM me,come visit Lennyby High School
anytime you want.
Jeff, your open invitationanytime you're coming to New

(01:01:59):
Jersey, come see what we'redoing.
You can we can talk about youknow peer observations to our
sobbing circles where we changedour faculty meetings to
collegiate cafes to all thesecrazy things we do with our
staff of coffee and soda daysand carts being pushed up and
down the school.
It's whatever, right?
Pictures all over every hallwayof all the kids, our Pride Day,
anything you want to come.

(01:02:20):
My door's open.
It's an open laboratory for usto kind of experiment and do
great things.
But probably Instagram would bethe best.
Lenape High School in Medford,New Jersey.
You can hit me up on my emailas well.
You can find me on the websiteat Lenape High School of the
Lenape Regional High SchoolDistrict in Medford, New Jersey.
Hit me up on an email.
You can also find me on Twitterat Katoni, uh at Katani Tony is
my Twitter account.

(01:02:40):
So yeah, pretty easy to find, Ithink.
But listen to the podcast, anduh you can hit me up on any.
Those areas.
I'd be love to talk to you.
A lot of people have beenreaching out lately and have
tons of visitors coming toLendope.
So anytime.

Principal JL (01:02:51):
Yeah, you agree.
I wish I would have known youabout a year ago when Nebraska
was playing the pinstripe bowlbecause I was in New Jersey.
I was up in Fort Street, NewJersey, and went over and
watched the Pinstripe Bowl wherethe Huskers took on the Boston
College Eagles and they got thewin.
So I was happy about that.
Yep.
On that end.
So, Tony, you know, that'sgreat information.

(01:03:12):
I will actually list thatinformation in our show notes so
it makes it real easy forpeople to connect with you when
they listen to the show as well.
And so, Tony, I reallyappreciate you being on the show
today.
Is there anything you'd like toleave our audience with before
we go?

Tony Cattani (01:03:28):
Yeah, so I'm I'm really passionate about sharing
some of these leadership skillsand the peer observation models
and some of the things we'redoing at Lenape.
So if anybody else, again,wants to talk about these
things, I'm open to talk.
You know, I've been providedsome opportunities as now the
NSSP National Principle Year tocome out to different states
across the country.
I want to celebrate you andalso share some things we're
doing and maybe we can learnfrom one another.

(01:03:49):
So contact me if you're ifyou're interested in talking
about these things further,whether me coming to you or you
coming to me, I'm open for thosethings.
But just continue to lead withpride because that's what I'm
I'm proud of what I do.

Principal JL (01:04:01):
Awesome.
Tony, it was great having youon the show.
I'll let you go for the day.
Talk to you later.
Thank you.
Wow, what a conversation withTony Cattani.
His leadership story reminds usthat leadership is tough.
But if we surround ourselveswith successful, like-minded
people, we too can find success.

(01:04:22):
If this episode resonates withyou, please share it with
someone who needs to hear it.
And don't forget to subscribeand share the podcast with
like-minded people like you.
And let's build this communityof growth minded educators.
Thank you for tuning in andremember to always be curious
and 1% better.