June 3, 2025 • 34 mins
This week on Educational Relevance, we’re joined by Dr. Eric Gallien, a seasoned educational leader who opens up about navigating both personal and professional challenges in the world of education.
From community resistance to personal loss, hear how resilience, reflection, and relentless focus helped them lead with impact.
If you’re a school leader, educator, or aspiring administrator—this one’s for you.
Now streaming on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all major platforms.
#EducationMatters #LeadershipPodcast #ResilientLeadership #SchoolLeaders #EducationalRelevance
For more information about the the topics discussed, contact us at
Bryan Wright: brwright44@gmail.com
Mark McBeth: mark@educationalrelevance.org
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Thanks for listening. Until next time, keep leading with heart—and stay educationally relevant.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gal (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to Educational
Relevance, A platform byeducators for educators where we
explore, what it means to lead,learn, and grow in education.
I am Bryan Wright.
I'm currently an adjunctprofessor at Concordia
University in Mequon, Wisconsin.
I'm here with my partner incrime, Mark Macbeth.
Mark is an accomplished authorand an educational leader in his
(00:22):
own right.
Our episode today is aboutresilience and leadership, we
have a guest, Dr.
Eric Gallien.
Now, Dr.
Gallien is a close friend ofmine, and I'm glad he's here
next to me.
So if I say all these thingsinappropriately, he'll fix,
he'll take care of these thingsquickly.
Eric was born and raised inMilwaukee, Wisconsin.
And Dr.
Gallian grew up in a low incomehousehold led by a single
(00:44):
mother, and I know thatneighborhood, West Lawn in
Milwaukee.
Everybody know Milwaukee.
They know that's the projects.
After graduating high school, heenlisted in the United States
Marine Corps and served incombat during Operation Desert
Storm.
Following his honorabledischarge, he pursued higher
education earning a, abachelor's degree in history
education from University ofMilwaukee In 1999.
(01:07):
He further, his studies with twomaster's degrees from Alverno
College, one in curriculum andinstruction, and another in
educational leadership, andearned his PhD in educational
philosophy analysis, from theUniversity of Madison in 2011,
where he still continues being aBadger fan.
So that being said, Mark, we aregoing to talk about, overcoming
(01:29):
adversity in educationalleadership.
So Mark, I'm gonna turn thisover to you for a few questions.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (01:35):
Well, very good.
So you've served as a principaland a superintendent, when you
think back on your educationalcareer and the adversities that
you had to face, what comes tomind on, what you felt the first
time that it happened and thenhow you've kind of changed over
time.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallie (01:55):
So I think my introduction into
education was interesting,'causeit wasn't as traditional as most
people's.
And one, I had an opportunity towork as an educational assistant
prior to me even pursuing mydegree.
So I had that level ofexperience and exposure I
actually went and got the, thetheoretical information from my
(02:21):
bachelor's degree.
So that introduction intoeducation, I was able to walk
into the door with some theory,that I learned through my
undergrad work.
But more importantly, I was ableto bring with me the experiences
I had as two years of being aneducational assistant.
Educational assistance, whatpeople most people don't realize
(02:43):
is that they're the boots on theground.
They're, in the fight, ineducation, and they really do
stuff that we don't see and do.
And so I brought that experienceto the table.
So when I was a teacher, I wasable to bring that to bear it
made it easier for me.
So I didn't have the traditionalAha moment that you have when
(03:05):
you coming in with all thistheoretical knowledge and now
you bump up against realexperience.
I didn't have that.
I brought with me experience andthen I had, eight years of
military experience as well.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (03:18):
Okay.
How does things like that, theassistant job, the military, how
does that shape your thinking inproblem solving?
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (03:27):
The military background really
rooted me in what it means tohave grit and perseverance and
what that really entails.
But more importantly, it taughtme to think strategically and
plan things out.
In the military we learn anacronym called SMEAC, Situation,
(03:48):
Mission, Execution,Administration and Logistics and
Command and Signals.
Now, all of those terms relateto war time, but you can apply
that same theory to just common,everyday civilian life.
You can apply the same theory.
What is this situation?
What do you need to getaccomplished?
(04:09):
How are you going to execute it?
What things did you need to beaware of and what landmines
could be potentially out there?
And then how are you going torecoup and, regroup after you,
successfully complete one levelof the mission?
Do you revisit?
Do you restart?
(04:30):
So I use that as a youngteacher, I would always analyze
my daily situation by, okay,what am I walking into?
What are these kids gonna be upto?
What do I need to be aware of?
How do I need to plan for that?
So it made my introduction intoeducation a little easier.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2 (04:47):
Mm-hmm.
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (04:47):
'cause I had all those skills that I
brought from those experiences.
So Doc, I call him, this is howI've known him for years, you
came in.
after eight years in the Armyand you started Corps Marine
Corps.
Marine Corps.
Right.
Marine Corps.
Sorry, man.
Yeah.
Don't, just don't confuse thosetwo.
If my brother Bobby's watchingthis, don't get mad at me.
(05:08):
That was a mistake.
Right?
I'll let you know that.
My brother Bobby.
Yeah.
Bobby would've, Bobby would'vegot on me if I'd have let that
pass.
Yeah.
Bobby a former Marine as well.
But as a Marine, you came inafter eight years of experience.
How did that work for you,starting as an educational
assistant and building your wayup?
So one of the things you learnis a, any type of armed services
(05:29):
is, one of the principles youshould learn is servitude,
right?
And so I, I had a servant'sheart when I came out of the
military and wanted to give backto my community.
I've always had this passion.
If had someone taught me as ayoung man the discipline and
skills that I learned when I wasin the military, if they
(05:50):
would've exposed me to some ofthat before I got to the
military, I, I would've probablybeen a stronger person.
And so what I tried to do as aneducator is infuse that lack of
What I didn't get, I try to makesure those young men get, so
I've always had a passion fortrying to fill that gap with
young men particularly, and thatbegan my journey, and that's how
(06:13):
I started out.
I started out focusing on whatcan I do and how can I create
an, experience in my room, in myclassroom at the time that would
elevate them, raise them up, butat the same time, raise all the
kids, you know, because, and mytheory was if I can get the, the
lowest performing student to dotheir best and apply their
(06:38):
skills, I definitely buy Osmosisis gonna get the rest of them.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2 (06:42):
Mm-hmm.
So do you live by some sort ofcode even today that kind of
states, this is my servitudetype of approach you got some
sort of code like that?
bryan-wright-and-er (06:54):
Absolutely.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (06:55):
what?
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (06:55):
That's exactly how I live right now.
And so that, that code hasshifted over times, like as I
grow it, it grows with me,right?
And so it started off with justme saying like, I just want to
just have at the core of who Iam.
How do I help a young man be abetter young man, right?
Mm-hmm.
(07:16):
How can I use these experiences?
When I walked into the military,it was, it was a culture shock
for me'cause I, I wasn't used toa man talking to me, but someone
told me while I was in myjourney that if you don't want
them yelling at you.
And if you don't want them toridicule and, and be on your
case about things, then you'd bethe best at what you do.
(07:40):
And I applied that theory toeverything that I do.
I said, well, if I don't want tobe ridiculed, if I don't want to
be overlooked, then I need to dothis one job to my best ability.
So when I was an educationalassistant, I tried to put my
best at it.
I operated as an educationalassistant, like most teachers
should operate.
(08:00):
And when I was a teacher, Ioperated like the administrators
should operate and I just alwayswas looking toward the next
step.
And, that all started in themilitary.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_ (08:10):
So, as a, an administrator, what
type of challenges have youfaced personally and,
professionally that, you'vestruggled with sometimes in, in
this profession?
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (08:24):
That's a great question and I think
because I had such a long careerin education that looked
different at each stage, At eachstage.
I think of leadership ineducation.
Everyone is a leader at theirown level.
Even the students are leaders attheir own level, So at each
level, I was challenged bydifferent things.
(08:46):
So when I came into educationand I entered the administration
ranks, the first challenge I wasfaced with was that people
didn't have the same work ethicas I
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (08:58):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (09:00):
And so my theory was how can you
lead an organization or a schoolif you don't even show up on
working time?
I.
Be diligent in your daily work.
Like how do you show up when youshow up at work?
Are you professionally dressed?
Do you present yourself as aprofessional?
Do you put the work in or youjust sit in the office and
(09:22):
collect a check?
So that was the first challenge.
I, I brought a different set ofwork ethic to the table, and I
couldn't understand why thesepeople weren't doing the same
thing.
So that was
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (09:33):
Yeah, so did you get kicked back with
that?
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (09:36):
Oh, I got a lot of kickback.
but I stood firm.
My, theory has always been thatwe owe these children our best
and I stepped into the arenaalways trying to present my best
and I did it unapologetic.
And so if, I, ticked off a fewpeople, rubbed some people the
wrong way, or called them outabout unprofessional behavior,
(10:01):
then so be it.
I just kind of dealt with itbecause I felt compelled to do
what was best for children.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_1 (10:07):
So if somebody is just kind of
going through the motions of theday and doing their thing,
what's really the drawback forkids?
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (10:14):
One is that I, I feel as though,
depending on your situation,every educational institution is
not equal.
So the urban institutions arenot the same as the rural.
And the rural is not the same asthe suburban and so on and so
forth.
So every environment you have toshow up as a different leader.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (10:36):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-g (10:37):
Because I spent most of my career in
urban, I can only speak tourban, So I'm saying I felt
offended by administrators thatwould show up and wouldn't, at
the very least, make surestudents are safe.
And that means you be on time,you greet them when they get off
(10:57):
the bus.
You are visible, are out thereon the playground, you roaming
those halls just at the core.
I mean, if you don't do anythingelse, you just make sure they're
safe.
They show up that the teachersare where they're supposed to
be.
Everyone is moving the waythey're supposed to do.
The, the, the flow of thebuilding feels safe.
(11:21):
I personally make that apriority and I think that looks
different in differentenvironments where I've worked
in more suburban typeenvironments where the students
kind of have a different set ofvalues that they bring to
school.
You have to show up differentlyfor them, but you have to show
up.
And so when I came fromMilwaukee to Racine, it startled
(11:46):
me that some administrators feltlike, well, these kids are okay.
They're, they're really nicekids.
They, you don't have to be asdiligent.
Well, no, you do, because theyget into stuff too.
Suburban kids get into stufftoo.
Rural kids get into stuff too.
The, the whole idea is to keepthem safe, period.
From themselves and from otherpeople.
(12:07):
So let me ask this question now,Doc, You mentioned keeping
students safe, it seems like thefirst priority.
You've dealt with enoughadministrators, where they
always say the curriculum guidesstudent behavior or student
success.
Others feel that once you havestudents feel safe, that'll
enhance the curriculum and guidestudent success.
Yeah.
Which one are you the proponentof?
(12:28):
And if I had to put you on thespot, which one would you say
what you believe in and why?
I think both are equallyimportant, and I'll say, but it
requires skillset do both,right?
You have to be really good atthe whole administrative job to
do both.
Now, some people show up,they're just disciplinarians.
(12:50):
They're born structured, andthey provide that safety for
students and structure androutine, Some people are really
good at that, but they neverreally hone their skills on
understanding how instructionalso provides structure and
safety.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2 (13:07):
Mm-hmm.
bryan-wright-and-eric-g (13:07):
because when good instruction is not
happening, then you can allthings break open and all hell
breaks loose.
And so once I establish safetyas my foundation, then I'm
really tuned in to how I knowstudents are learning.
And in order to do that, you nothave to only understand the
(13:31):
curriculum.
You need to understand thepedagogy.
You need to understand howteachers give students feedback.
What does that look like?
What does good feedback looklike?
What does it mean for you toobjectively observe a teacher
without in inserting what youthink is going to happen or
giving them credit for somethingthat they did not do.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (13:52):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (13:52):
You have to really hone your skill,
so it, it requires two distinctset of skills to do both.
Now, to marry them is even moreskills, and so I pride myself on
the fact that I could do both.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (14:06):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (14:06):
But I started with safety
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_10 (14:08):
I think that's a great question
that you asked Bryan, because Ido hear him talking about having
a code, a way he approachesthings when he talks about
safety and all that.
I think he's really definingclimate of a school, that when
people walk in, they got anenvironment that they can
actually be effective in.
once that's established as afoundation, Bryan and I often
(14:30):
talk about culture.
We, gotta convince everybodythat instruction is important,
that student learning isimportant, and when everybody
starts to live that.
Then all that instructionalpractices that you're seeing in
the classroom all that stuff nowmakes sense.
bryan-wright-and-eric-g (14:46):
Mm-hmm.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_10 (14:47):
I agree, it's really hard to
juggle all those things at once.
bryan-wright-and-eric-g (14:52):
Mm-hmm.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_ (14:54):
One of the things we wanted to talk
to you about was adversity.
Can you share, a time in your,career that you faced with the
extreme, adversity, and you justkept doing the right thing
because that's what you weresupposed to do.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gal (15:12):
Okay, so, which one, Right, which one,
and I'm trying, I'm trying pickones that.
Because it happened at differentphases in my career.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (15:21):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallien (15:21):
I would say some that really stand
out to me.
So, there's two extremes.
So one I would say is just amindset and really people just
being rooted in tradition andhaving to face that and make
people, and fight through.
People wanna hold on totradition, and I'll explain that
in a minute.
The other one is political.
(15:43):
It's purely political.
I want to use both of thosebecause they both, in some
respect are political., Thefirst one I'm gonna talk about
is really about people lack ofunderstanding and willingness to
change.
As a leader, you have to beinnovative.
You, want to be innovative.
(16:04):
One instance I can recall iswhen I first came to Racine
Unified School District, and thesuperintendent challenged me,
she said, what is one thing youwant to be your legacy?
I felt as though my whole careerhas been about me creating the
structure that students neededto be successful.
(16:26):
And sometimes, for somestudents, you have to put
guardrails in place where theycan't go outside the guardrails.
Some kids, those guardrails needto be tighter, and some of'em,
you can loosen'em up more, butnevertheless, every kid needs
some guardrails.
My first challenge was how do wetransform high schools?
(16:48):
In a way that feeds theindustry, makes sure that we are
intentional about the skillsthat we teach these kids.
'cause for me to say, I want tobe a doctor, and the teacher
that's teaching me in highschool don't have a clue what a
doctor does, right?
(17:10):
So they're teaching me biology,but they're not teaching me
biology through the lens of adoctor, a physician or whatever
it may be.
So, I felt as though we need toflip the model.
So, traditional high school hasalways been made up of the four
core English, math, science,social studies.
(17:31):
Right?
They drive everything.
The electives are justelectives, But now the way that
the industry and the economyworks is industry driven.
So when we first started school,it was important for in
manufacturing companies to getpeople that could do basic math,
to write a simple sentence, toread the history book, so on and
(17:54):
so forth, or apply a simpleformula that was important to
the industry at that time.
The industry has shifted.
These kids have to have otherskills.
So what are those skills?
They're very specific to eachindustry.
So one of the challenges forRacine is I wanted to flip the
model of high school, but I hadto educate the community to,
(18:17):
what that looks like.
I started with the businesscommunity.
Then I went to the parents, andthen I went to the teachers,
then I went inside to thestudents.
Throughout that entire journey,I had to convince every place.
But strategically, I knew if Icould get the business community
to understand what I was tryingto do and get them to buy in,
(18:40):
the parent challenges would beeasier to deal with.
I was misled when I thoughtthat, so we had to work through
that a little bit morediligently because the parents
wanted to hold on to tradition.
The industry, the businessleaders understood what they
needed.
We would have Foxconn come intoour community that was very
(19:01):
automated manufacturing type of,it was beyond what was
traditionally taught tostudents.
Students didn't even understandthat you can go into a major,
welding firm right now, and thisis clean as a hospital, but
because mentally we wereoperating based on the old
industrial system.
(19:23):
Our school systems were stilldesigned to feed that.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (19:25):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallie (19:26):
So I wanted to flip that model and
it, it challenged the, theentire community.
Mm-hmm.
And I had to work through that,but it taught me how to
strategically work throughthings like that.
But that was one majorchallenge.
And it was based on peopledidn't want to give of give up
tradition.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_ (19:43):
Why didn't you give up when you
started getting kicked back onsome of that?
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallien (19:47):
I knew it was the right thing to
do, and I knew once I get themto see it, and once I found a
national model that peopleunderstood and I, I brought that
model to Racine.
So in essence, what you did doc,was you, formulated the climate,
you changed climate at first.
Right.
So you knew the climate had tobe shifted to the meeting.
(20:08):
That's why you started buildingup safe environments.
Right.
But what you also saw was theneed that the district needed to
have as far as education, as faras kids and transformation of
that.
Right.
So you made sure the climate wasestablished, then you started
working on the culture, right?
Is that correct?
Right.
And and to show you how that allplayed like into my entire
tenure at Racine.
(20:29):
So, that was a project that sheput me on.
It wasn't something that weimplemented right away.
I did like a year or two of justresearch, talking to the
community, prepping, prepping,prepping before we, now you say
she, who's she?
Oh, the, the formersuperintendent there.
You, Dr.
Hawes.
Right.
So part of her vision was tomake sure our early childhood
(20:50):
would be sufficient and reallystrong.
So she was working with thelocal community around that.
How all that ended up playing inmy favor when I became the
superintendent, we had alreadyput a structure in place for how
students entered school.
We already had a place for howit gave me an opportunity as a
(21:14):
leader to fill the gap, andthat's currently where the
district is at now.
They're filling that gap, and sowe put things in place that will
build the structure to what itlooks like for a student to be
college and career ready.
We thought they need to show upin school, being able to be
kindergarten ready and then weput a benchmark in place to say
(21:34):
they need to be able to read bythird grade.
And then I put, I would've putmore in place if I would've
stayed.
So, and I think they'recurrently following the same
model,
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_1 (21:44):
So let's shift gears real quick.
the one thing that drives menuts about education is the
politics of it.
It really, really does.
So let's talk a little bit aboutpolitics and adversity.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gal (21:56):
Yeah.
So you know, right now Iactually lived what we're
currently seeing under ourcurrent administration for the
United States, This attack onDEI, attack on all the programs
and so on and so forth.
As a leader, where I feltcompelled to fight through
(22:20):
politically was this idea thatwe had to label something.
You know, I remember going whenwe were doing a strategic plan
for Racine before I left, I hadmy top level administrators who
felt like we need to call itDEI.
We need to, we need to call itout.
We need to do that.
(22:40):
And me, politically, Iunderstood that once we label
it, gives it a, a target.
And I knew politically, DEIsocial-emotional learning, all
these little labels that we tieto all these different things
that we know at the core aregood things for people.
(23:01):
Period.
We, once we start labeling it,then we give it an opportunity
to be attacked.
Because at the end of the day,and I was just sharing this with
a leader on my way over here,was that the end of the day, we
still gonna have to addresspeople's needs, right?
Call it diversity, equity,inclusion, call it social
emotional learning, learning.
At the end of the day, societyitself is going to have to
(23:26):
address these needs.
So to have the politicalinstitutions influence education
is just not good.
It's just not good.
It, really contradictseverything that education is
supposed to be about,
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (23:42):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gal (23:43):
which is really exposing people to
various ideas, to variousinstances, various historical
events so that they can beinformed and make informed
decisions.
So you kept the, the main thing,the main thing with the student
strengths, right?
However, sometimes politics andpeople's wish for more power got
(24:04):
in the way.
Mm-hmm.
How did you circumvent thosepeople both above you and below
you?
Who had a different mindset ofmaybe a personal, idea of what
they wanted themselves to beinstead of keeping that main
thought of keeping the mainthing, the main thing for
students.
Yeah.
So I think going back to thatfirst example, one of the things
(24:26):
as a leader in Racine, I tookthe time to build the
relationships, the support ofthe real influencers., The
people who both influenced thecommunity locally and the
political agenda, and those arethe business leaders.
(24:46):
Honestly, the people who havethe purse strings control
everything.
We see that with Elon Musk rightnow.
He has a purse string.
It's not that he's has a greatidea and not that every idea
that he has is bad, it's justthat he has the money to control
the purse strings.
And so I understood that earlyin my career and I leveraged
(25:06):
that.
So in Racine, it worked for mebecause I, had already built
those relationships.
So when our speaker of the housewould try to impose different
things on Racine because we wereone of the lowest performing
districts at the time, whenthose political agendas came
down on us, I was able tocircumvent it because I had
relationships with The majorCEOs of these major companies
(25:30):
that feed Wisconsin., So I wasable to go to them and say,
listen, if they do that, it'sgoing to impact this community
this way, and it's going toimpact your bottom line this
way.
And I was educated enough to beable to do that.
Not every leader spends the timeto educate themselves in that
(25:51):
respect.
I have a business backgroundalong with my military
background, so I understoodthose relationships.
Now, my naive in all of this isthat I thought I could replicate
that when I went to Charleston,South Carolina.
I thought, oh yeah, Iunderstand.
There's a whole lot of politicalnonsense going on there with
(26:14):
people having agendas, therebeing political organizations
out there that had agendas, likewe see what's happening with the
banning of books and so on andso forth.
There's organizations that feedthat, and so I felt like, okay,
that happens, but I understandthat if I can get to the CEO of
Boeing.
Mm-hmm.
(26:34):
If I can get to the CEO ofBosch, if I can get to the CEO
of BMW Mercedes-Benz, who resideright there in South Carolina,
if I can get them to understandhow the education system will
help their bottom line, thenthose political entities will
leave me alone.
And that's what I thought Icould replicate.
Well.
(26:55):
The political dynamics is alittle greater than I thought.
So the, engine was such aroundthis idea of attacking, DEI
banning books.
Mm-hmm.
That engine started three orfour administrations ago.
Mm-hmm.
And it's changed names overtime.
(27:15):
And now it's like the Moms forLiberty or the Daughters of the
Confederate or the Tea Party.
All of those different entitieswere the engine that got Donald
Trump to where he's at now.
And, and because that engine wasso heavily influenced, I
couldn't do anything about it.
(27:36):
It was already there.
It didn't matter what I, couldget the, because the engine was
already in place when I gotthere.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (27:42):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (27:43):
But that was my naivety.
But I think to fight politicalentities, or agendas, you have
to have good relationship withthe people that pulled the purse
strings.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_10 (27:54):
I look at this a few different
ways.
when we think about back to NoChild Left Behind.
All right, no child left behindis a code to me, right?
That's a code.
I can live by that.
But people fought the systemthat was put underneath it and
they fought it because it was apush down.
(28:16):
Somebody saying you have to dosomething right.
so I still think that No ChildLeft Behind was good.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallie (28:25):
It was good in theory.
I think that there wasn't enoughtime putting the infrastructure
in place to support it.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (28:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I, I feel like sometimes assuperintendent, people look at
you as the political adversaryand they're not willing to move
forward because they think thatyou are telling them which way
to go.
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (28:46):
Right.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_ (28:47):
So, from their perspective, how do
you think about it from there?
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallien (28:51):
I think that's, a legitimate,
perspective to have.
Fortunately, when I was in myfirst district, which was seen
as the leader I basically wasinternally grown, right?
So I had those relationships andcredibility.
Now, I don't care how muchcredibility you have with
people, they still question youwhen you're the main man.
(29:12):
Mm-hmm.
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (29:13):
The politics are such now that, that
people don't even really careabout the kids.
It's not even about the kidsanymore.
It's about the agenda andwhatever that agenda is.
It's unfortunate because thekids are gonna suffer.
At the end of the day, the kidsare gonna suffer.
And that's the unfortunate partabout what's going on to this
day.
It's gotten so bad that.
(29:35):
At one point we used to havesome humanity about it and said,
well, we're gonna at least keepthe kids safe.
But now it's lost that.
Mark, I know you feel stronglyabout this, this whole issue
regarding, students and havingpolitics and education.
That the whole idea.
mark-guest396_2_05-16-202 (29:51):
Well, I, think that it's unacceptable
that we ever accept a loss,whoever that is.
You know, I, look at thesethings like, like this
conversation today is so, sopowerful.
as a, uh, administrator, as acoach out there supporting
people, I listen to these thingsand, and I can only be better at
what I do.
(30:12):
and I could think that everybodythat listens to this could be
better if they would just takethe components and that, that
code concept and the structurethat we continue to hear from
effective leaders that he talkedabout today, going through code
climate, culture into thecurriculum, making the
connections, working on'em atthe same time, people would just
(30:33):
take those concepts that value.
can set across, set aside thepolitics, they can set aside
some of those things and reallylook at that.
The end product is our students.
It's not us.
I always
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (30:47):
say education right.
mark-guest396_2_05-16-2025_11 (30:48):
a piece of cake without the
adults.
And, and it's because it'salways an adulting issue.
The politics you talked about isan adulting issue.
I think that your message todaywas extremely powerful in that
way.
People can set politics asideand really think about what's
best for kids.
Keeping the main thing, the mainthing you say a lot, Bryan you
(31:09):
know, I appreciate everythingyou said today, your honesty
about some of those things.
One last thing I would say, isyour role as a superintendent,
feels like politics sometimesitself.
I always tell people it's justmy role, You mentioned earlier,
everybody in the school's, aleader, a kid, a teacher,
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (31:28):
Right,
mark-guest396_2_05-16 (31:28):
whatever.
just your role.
That's what you are hired to do.
That component.
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (31:35):
right,
mark-guest396_2_05-16-2025 (31:35):
They need to understand that you're
doing your component and you'reasking them to do their
component.
So students learn.
bryan-wright-and-eric-g (31:42):
Exactly that.
You put that perfectly.
If more people understood onboth sides, so if the employees
understood that, you're not theperson that's gonna come in and
deal with a behavior problem.
You're the face of the district.
You're the person that's makingpeople understand why they
should support the institution,right?
And how do we interface witheach one another?
(32:04):
That's what your role is.
The the board needs tounderstand that you are the one
that's hiring the right personand doing the right thing for
the right purpose, and which isto educate kids.
And if they would just let thesuperintendent do that.
And even if some leaders,'causesome superintendents don't truly
(32:24):
understand their role.
They don't really understand.
They because they're busy tryingto manage the classroom.
I've worked with some leaders,superintendents that would
chastise a teacher.
You don't, cha that's not ever,superintendents are always
supposed to shake hands andkiss, babies.
That's, that's what we do.
We don't go, we don't chastisekids.
(32:46):
We don't chastise teachers.
At this point in time, I'm gonnaput a wrap to the conversation.
I think we've had a richconversation today.
I wanna make sure I say, a hugethank you to Dr.
Eric Gallien for his honesty,courage, and leadership he
shared with us today.
There's a reason why I respectand honor this man.
Because the things he's done inthe past, the adversity he's
(33:07):
overcome and the leadership he'sshown me and helped me become a
better leader.
Now, there's one takeaway fromthis conversation is that
adversity doesn't define you.
How you respond to it does,whether you're in a classroom,
the main office, or juststepping into leadership.
Remember, every setback can be aset up for growth.
(33:27):
If you found value in today'sepisode, please share with a
colleague.
Subscribe or leave us a review.
It helps us, keep bringing youconversations that we feel
matter.
Until next time, keep leadingwith your heart and stay
educationally relevant.
Thank you all much appreciated.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Hello and welcome back to Educational
Relevance, A platform byeducators for educators where we
explore, what it means to lead,learn, and grow in education.
I am Bryan Wright.
I'm currently an adjunctprofessor at Concordia
University in Mequon, Wisconsin.
I'm here with my partner incrime, Mark Macbeth.
Mark is an accomplished authorand an educational leader in his
(00:22):
own right.
Our episode today is aboutresilience and leadership, we
have a guest, Dr.
Eric Gallien.
Now, Dr.
Gallien is a close friend ofmine, and I'm glad he's here
next to me.
So if I say all these thingsinappropriately, he'll fix,
he'll take care of these thingsquickly.
Eric was born and raised inMilwaukee, Wisconsin.
And Dr.
Gallian grew up in a low incomehousehold led by a single
(00:44):
mother, and I know thatneighborhood, West Lawn in
Milwaukee.
Everybody know Milwaukee.
They know that's the projects.
After graduating high school, heenlisted in the United States
Marine Corps and served incombat during Operation Desert
Storm.
Following his honorabledischarge, he pursued higher
education earning a, abachelor's degree in history
education from University ofMilwaukee In 1999.
(01:07):
He further, his studies with twomaster's degrees from Alverno
College, one in curriculum andinstruction, and another in
educational leadership, andearned his PhD in educational
philosophy analysis, from theUniversity of Madison in 2011,
where he still continues being aBadger fan.
So that being said, Mark, we aregoing to talk about, overcoming
(01:29):
adversity in educationalleadership.
So Mark, I'm gonna turn thisover to you for a few questions.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (01:35):
Well, very good.
So you've served as a principaland a superintendent, when you
think back on your educationalcareer and the adversities that
you had to face, what comes tomind on, what you felt the first
time that it happened and thenhow you've kind of changed over
time.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallie (01:55):
So I think my introduction into
education was interesting,'causeit wasn't as traditional as most
people's.
And one, I had an opportunity towork as an educational assistant
prior to me even pursuing mydegree.
So I had that level ofexperience and exposure I
actually went and got the, thetheoretical information from my
(02:21):
bachelor's degree.
So that introduction intoeducation, I was able to walk
into the door with some theory,that I learned through my
undergrad work.
But more importantly, I was ableto bring with me the experiences
I had as two years of being aneducational assistant.
Educational assistance, whatpeople most people don't realize
(02:43):
is that they're the boots on theground.
They're, in the fight, ineducation, and they really do
stuff that we don't see and do.
And so I brought that experienceto the table.
So when I was a teacher, I wasable to bring that to bear it
made it easier for me.
So I didn't have the traditionalAha moment that you have when
(03:05):
you coming in with all thistheoretical knowledge and now
you bump up against realexperience.
I didn't have that.
I brought with me experience andthen I had, eight years of
military experience as well.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (03:18):
Okay.
How does things like that, theassistant job, the military, how
does that shape your thinking inproblem solving?
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (03:27):
The military background really
rooted me in what it means tohave grit and perseverance and
what that really entails.
But more importantly, it taughtme to think strategically and
plan things out.
In the military we learn anacronym called SMEAC, Situation,
(03:48):
Mission, Execution,Administration and Logistics and
Command and Signals.
Now, all of those terms relateto war time, but you can apply
that same theory to just common,everyday civilian life.
You can apply the same theory.
What is this situation?
What do you need to getaccomplished?
(04:09):
How are you going to execute it?
What things did you need to beaware of and what landmines
could be potentially out there?
And then how are you going torecoup and, regroup after you,
successfully complete one levelof the mission?
Do you revisit?
Do you restart?
(04:30):
So I use that as a youngteacher, I would always analyze
my daily situation by, okay,what am I walking into?
What are these kids gonna be upto?
What do I need to be aware of?
How do I need to plan for that?
So it made my introduction intoeducation a little easier.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2 (04:47):
Mm-hmm.
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (04:47):
'cause I had all those skills that I
brought from those experiences.
So Doc, I call him, this is howI've known him for years, you
came in.
after eight years in the Armyand you started Corps Marine
Corps.
Marine Corps.
Right.
Marine Corps.
Sorry, man.
Yeah.
Don't, just don't confuse thosetwo.
If my brother Bobby's watchingthis, don't get mad at me.
(05:08):
That was a mistake.
Right?
I'll let you know that.
My brother Bobby.
Yeah.
Bobby would've, Bobby would'vegot on me if I'd have let that
pass.
Yeah.
Bobby a former Marine as well.
But as a Marine, you came inafter eight years of experience.
How did that work for you,starting as an educational
assistant and building your wayup?
So one of the things you learnis a, any type of armed services
(05:29):
is, one of the principles youshould learn is servitude,
right?
And so I, I had a servant'sheart when I came out of the
military and wanted to give backto my community.
I've always had this passion.
If had someone taught me as ayoung man the discipline and
skills that I learned when I wasin the military, if they
(05:50):
would've exposed me to some ofthat before I got to the
military, I, I would've probablybeen a stronger person.
And so what I tried to do as aneducator is infuse that lack of
What I didn't get, I try to makesure those young men get, so
I've always had a passion fortrying to fill that gap with
young men particularly, and thatbegan my journey, and that's how
(06:13):
I started out.
I started out focusing on whatcan I do and how can I create
an, experience in my room, in myclassroom at the time that would
elevate them, raise them up, butat the same time, raise all the
kids, you know, because, and mytheory was if I can get the, the
lowest performing student to dotheir best and apply their
(06:38):
skills, I definitely buy Osmosisis gonna get the rest of them.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2 (06:42):
Mm-hmm.
So do you live by some sort ofcode even today that kind of
states, this is my servitudetype of approach you got some
sort of code like that?
bryan-wright-and-er (06:54):
Absolutely.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (06:55):
what?
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (06:55):
That's exactly how I live right now.
And so that, that code hasshifted over times, like as I
grow it, it grows with me,right?
And so it started off with justme saying like, I just want to
just have at the core of who Iam.
How do I help a young man be abetter young man, right?
Mm-hmm.
(07:16):
How can I use these experiences?
When I walked into the military,it was, it was a culture shock
for me'cause I, I wasn't used toa man talking to me, but someone
told me while I was in myjourney that if you don't want
them yelling at you.
And if you don't want them toridicule and, and be on your
case about things, then you'd bethe best at what you do.
(07:40):
And I applied that theory toeverything that I do.
I said, well, if I don't want tobe ridiculed, if I don't want to
be overlooked, then I need to dothis one job to my best ability.
So when I was an educationalassistant, I tried to put my
best at it.
I operated as an educationalassistant, like most teachers
should operate.
(08:00):
And when I was a teacher, Ioperated like the administrators
should operate and I just alwayswas looking toward the next
step.
And, that all started in themilitary.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_ (08:10):
So, as a, an administrator, what
type of challenges have youfaced personally and,
professionally that, you'vestruggled with sometimes in, in
this profession?
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (08:24):
That's a great question and I think
because I had such a long careerin education that looked
different at each stage, At eachstage.
I think of leadership ineducation.
Everyone is a leader at theirown level.
Even the students are leaders attheir own level, So at each
level, I was challenged bydifferent things.
(08:46):
So when I came into educationand I entered the administration
ranks, the first challenge I wasfaced with was that people
didn't have the same work ethicas I
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (08:58):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (09:00):
And so my theory was how can you
lead an organization or a schoolif you don't even show up on
working time?
I.
Be diligent in your daily work.
Like how do you show up when youshow up at work?
Are you professionally dressed?
Do you present yourself as aprofessional?
Do you put the work in or youjust sit in the office and
(09:22):
collect a check?
So that was the first challenge.
I, I brought a different set ofwork ethic to the table, and I
couldn't understand why thesepeople weren't doing the same
thing.
So that was
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (09:33):
Yeah, so did you get kicked back with
that?
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (09:36):
Oh, I got a lot of kickback.
but I stood firm.
My, theory has always been thatwe owe these children our best
and I stepped into the arenaalways trying to present my best
and I did it unapologetic.
And so if, I, ticked off a fewpeople, rubbed some people the
wrong way, or called them outabout unprofessional behavior,
(10:01):
then so be it.
I just kind of dealt with itbecause I felt compelled to do
what was best for children.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_1 (10:07):
So if somebody is just kind of
going through the motions of theday and doing their thing,
what's really the drawback forkids?
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (10:14):
One is that I, I feel as though,
depending on your situation,every educational institution is
not equal.
So the urban institutions arenot the same as the rural.
And the rural is not the same asthe suburban and so on and so
forth.
So every environment you have toshow up as a different leader.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (10:36):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-g (10:37):
Because I spent most of my career in
urban, I can only speak tourban, So I'm saying I felt
offended by administrators thatwould show up and wouldn't, at
the very least, make surestudents are safe.
And that means you be on time,you greet them when they get off
(10:57):
the bus.
You are visible, are out thereon the playground, you roaming
those halls just at the core.
I mean, if you don't do anythingelse, you just make sure they're
safe.
They show up that the teachersare where they're supposed to
be.
Everyone is moving the waythey're supposed to do.
The, the, the flow of thebuilding feels safe.
(11:21):
I personally make that apriority and I think that looks
different in differentenvironments where I've worked
in more suburban typeenvironments where the students
kind of have a different set ofvalues that they bring to
school.
You have to show up differentlyfor them, but you have to show
up.
And so when I came fromMilwaukee to Racine, it startled
(11:46):
me that some administrators feltlike, well, these kids are okay.
They're, they're really nicekids.
They, you don't have to be asdiligent.
Well, no, you do, because theyget into stuff too.
Suburban kids get into stufftoo.
Rural kids get into stuff too.
The, the whole idea is to keepthem safe, period.
From themselves and from otherpeople.
(12:07):
So let me ask this question now,Doc, You mentioned keeping
students safe, it seems like thefirst priority.
You've dealt with enoughadministrators, where they
always say the curriculum guidesstudent behavior or student
success.
Others feel that once you havestudents feel safe, that'll
enhance the curriculum and guidestudent success.
Yeah.
Which one are you the proponentof?
(12:28):
And if I had to put you on thespot, which one would you say
what you believe in and why?
I think both are equallyimportant, and I'll say, but it
requires skillset do both,right?
You have to be really good atthe whole administrative job to
do both.
Now, some people show up,they're just disciplinarians.
(12:50):
They're born structured, andthey provide that safety for
students and structure androutine, Some people are really
good at that, but they neverreally hone their skills on
understanding how instructionalso provides structure and
safety.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2 (13:07):
Mm-hmm.
bryan-wright-and-eric-g (13:07):
because when good instruction is not
happening, then you can allthings break open and all hell
breaks loose.
And so once I establish safetyas my foundation, then I'm
really tuned in to how I knowstudents are learning.
And in order to do that, you nothave to only understand the
(13:31):
curriculum.
You need to understand thepedagogy.
You need to understand howteachers give students feedback.
What does that look like?
What does good feedback looklike?
What does it mean for you toobjectively observe a teacher
without in inserting what youthink is going to happen or
giving them credit for somethingthat they did not do.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (13:52):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (13:52):
You have to really hone your skill,
so it, it requires two distinctset of skills to do both.
Now, to marry them is even moreskills, and so I pride myself on
the fact that I could do both.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (14:06):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (14:06):
But I started with safety
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_10 (14:08):
I think that's a great question
that you asked Bryan, because Ido hear him talking about having
a code, a way he approachesthings when he talks about
safety and all that.
I think he's really definingclimate of a school, that when
people walk in, they got anenvironment that they can
actually be effective in.
once that's established as afoundation, Bryan and I often
(14:30):
talk about culture.
We, gotta convince everybodythat instruction is important,
that student learning isimportant, and when everybody
starts to live that.
Then all that instructionalpractices that you're seeing in
the classroom all that stuff nowmakes sense.
bryan-wright-and-eric-g (14:46):
Mm-hmm.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_10 (14:47):
I agree, it's really hard to
juggle all those things at once.
bryan-wright-and-eric-g (14:52):
Mm-hmm.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_ (14:54):
One of the things we wanted to talk
to you about was adversity.
Can you share, a time in your,career that you faced with the
extreme, adversity, and you justkept doing the right thing
because that's what you weresupposed to do.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gal (15:12):
Okay, so, which one, Right, which one,
and I'm trying, I'm trying pickones that.
Because it happened at differentphases in my career.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (15:21):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallien (15:21):
I would say some that really stand
out to me.
So, there's two extremes.
So one I would say is just amindset and really people just
being rooted in tradition andhaving to face that and make
people, and fight through.
People wanna hold on totradition, and I'll explain that
in a minute.
The other one is political.
(15:43):
It's purely political.
I want to use both of thosebecause they both, in some
respect are political., Thefirst one I'm gonna talk about
is really about people lack ofunderstanding and willingness to
change.
As a leader, you have to beinnovative.
You, want to be innovative.
(16:04):
One instance I can recall iswhen I first came to Racine
Unified School District, and thesuperintendent challenged me,
she said, what is one thing youwant to be your legacy?
I felt as though my whole careerhas been about me creating the
structure that students neededto be successful.
(16:26):
And sometimes, for somestudents, you have to put
guardrails in place where theycan't go outside the guardrails.
Some kids, those guardrails needto be tighter, and some of'em,
you can loosen'em up more, butnevertheless, every kid needs
some guardrails.
My first challenge was how do wetransform high schools?
(16:48):
In a way that feeds theindustry, makes sure that we are
intentional about the skillsthat we teach these kids.
'cause for me to say, I want tobe a doctor, and the teacher
that's teaching me in highschool don't have a clue what a
doctor does, right?
(17:10):
So they're teaching me biology,but they're not teaching me
biology through the lens of adoctor, a physician or whatever
it may be.
So, I felt as though we need toflip the model.
So, traditional high school hasalways been made up of the four
core English, math, science,social studies.
(17:31):
Right?
They drive everything.
The electives are justelectives, But now the way that
the industry and the economyworks is industry driven.
So when we first started school,it was important for in
manufacturing companies to getpeople that could do basic math,
to write a simple sentence, toread the history book, so on and
(17:54):
so forth, or apply a simpleformula that was important to
the industry at that time.
The industry has shifted.
These kids have to have otherskills.
So what are those skills?
They're very specific to eachindustry.
So one of the challenges forRacine is I wanted to flip the
model of high school, but I hadto educate the community to,
(18:17):
what that looks like.
I started with the businesscommunity.
Then I went to the parents, andthen I went to the teachers,
then I went inside to thestudents.
Throughout that entire journey,I had to convince every place.
But strategically, I knew if Icould get the business community
to understand what I was tryingto do and get them to buy in,
(18:40):
the parent challenges would beeasier to deal with.
I was misled when I thoughtthat, so we had to work through
that a little bit morediligently because the parents
wanted to hold on to tradition.
The industry, the businessleaders understood what they
needed.
We would have Foxconn come intoour community that was very
(19:01):
automated manufacturing type of,it was beyond what was
traditionally taught tostudents.
Students didn't even understandthat you can go into a major,
welding firm right now, and thisis clean as a hospital, but
because mentally we wereoperating based on the old
industrial system.
(19:23):
Our school systems were stilldesigned to feed that.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (19:25):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallie (19:26):
So I wanted to flip that model and
it, it challenged the, theentire community.
Mm-hmm.
And I had to work through that,but it taught me how to
strategically work throughthings like that.
But that was one majorchallenge.
And it was based on peopledidn't want to give of give up
tradition.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_ (19:43):
Why didn't you give up when you
started getting kicked back onsome of that?
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallien (19:47):
I knew it was the right thing to
do, and I knew once I get themto see it, and once I found a
national model that peopleunderstood and I, I brought that
model to Racine.
So in essence, what you did doc,was you, formulated the climate,
you changed climate at first.
Right.
So you knew the climate had tobe shifted to the meeting.
(20:08):
That's why you started buildingup safe environments.
Right.
But what you also saw was theneed that the district needed to
have as far as education, as faras kids and transformation of
that.
Right.
So you made sure the climate wasestablished, then you started
working on the culture, right?
Is that correct?
Right.
And and to show you how that allplayed like into my entire
tenure at Racine.
(20:29):
So, that was a project that sheput me on.
It wasn't something that weimplemented right away.
I did like a year or two of justresearch, talking to the
community, prepping, prepping,prepping before we, now you say
she, who's she?
Oh, the, the formersuperintendent there.
You, Dr.
Hawes.
Right.
So part of her vision was tomake sure our early childhood
(20:50):
would be sufficient and reallystrong.
So she was working with thelocal community around that.
How all that ended up playing inmy favor when I became the
superintendent, we had alreadyput a structure in place for how
students entered school.
We already had a place for howit gave me an opportunity as a
(21:14):
leader to fill the gap, andthat's currently where the
district is at now.
They're filling that gap, and sowe put things in place that will
build the structure to what itlooks like for a student to be
college and career ready.
We thought they need to show upin school, being able to be
kindergarten ready and then weput a benchmark in place to say
(21:34):
they need to be able to read bythird grade.
And then I put, I would've putmore in place if I would've
stayed.
So, and I think they'recurrently following the same
model,
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_1 (21:44):
So let's shift gears real quick.
the one thing that drives menuts about education is the
politics of it.
It really, really does.
So let's talk a little bit aboutpolitics and adversity.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gal (21:56):
Yeah.
So you know, right now Iactually lived what we're
currently seeing under ourcurrent administration for the
United States, This attack onDEI, attack on all the programs
and so on and so forth.
As a leader, where I feltcompelled to fight through
(22:20):
politically was this idea thatwe had to label something.
You know, I remember going whenwe were doing a strategic plan
for Racine before I left, I hadmy top level administrators who
felt like we need to call itDEI.
We need to, we need to call itout.
We need to do that.
(22:40):
And me, politically, Iunderstood that once we label
it, gives it a, a target.
And I knew politically, DEIsocial-emotional learning, all
these little labels that we tieto all these different things
that we know at the core aregood things for people.
(23:01):
Period.
We, once we start labeling it,then we give it an opportunity
to be attacked.
Because at the end of the day,and I was just sharing this with
a leader on my way over here,was that the end of the day, we
still gonna have to addresspeople's needs, right?
Call it diversity, equity,inclusion, call it social
emotional learning, learning.
At the end of the day, societyitself is going to have to
(23:26):
address these needs.
So to have the politicalinstitutions influence education
is just not good.
It's just not good.
It, really contradictseverything that education is
supposed to be about,
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (23:42):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gal (23:43):
which is really exposing people to
various ideas, to variousinstances, various historical
events so that they can beinformed and make informed
decisions.
So you kept the, the main thing,the main thing with the student
strengths, right?
However, sometimes politics andpeople's wish for more power got
(24:04):
in the way.
Mm-hmm.
How did you circumvent thosepeople both above you and below
you?
Who had a different mindset ofmaybe a personal, idea of what
they wanted themselves to beinstead of keeping that main
thought of keeping the mainthing, the main thing for
students.
Yeah.
So I think going back to thatfirst example, one of the things
(24:26):
as a leader in Racine, I tookthe time to build the
relationships, the support ofthe real influencers., The
people who both influenced thecommunity locally and the
political agenda, and those arethe business leaders.
(24:46):
Honestly, the people who havethe purse strings control
everything.
We see that with Elon Musk rightnow.
He has a purse string.
It's not that he's has a greatidea and not that every idea
that he has is bad, it's justthat he has the money to control
the purse strings.
And so I understood that earlyin my career and I leveraged
(25:06):
that.
So in Racine, it worked for mebecause I, had already built
those relationships.
So when our speaker of the housewould try to impose different
things on Racine because we wereone of the lowest performing
districts at the time, whenthose political agendas came
down on us, I was able tocircumvent it because I had
relationships with The majorCEOs of these major companies
(25:30):
that feed Wisconsin., So I wasable to go to them and say,
listen, if they do that, it'sgoing to impact this community
this way, and it's going toimpact your bottom line this
way.
And I was educated enough to beable to do that.
Not every leader spends the timeto educate themselves in that
(25:51):
respect.
I have a business backgroundalong with my military
background, so I understoodthose relationships.
Now, my naive in all of this isthat I thought I could replicate
that when I went to Charleston,South Carolina.
I thought, oh yeah, Iunderstand.
There's a whole lot of politicalnonsense going on there with
(26:14):
people having agendas, therebeing political organizations
out there that had agendas, likewe see what's happening with the
banning of books and so on andso forth.
There's organizations that feedthat, and so I felt like, okay,
that happens, but I understandthat if I can get to the CEO of
Boeing.
Mm-hmm.
(26:34):
If I can get to the CEO ofBosch, if I can get to the CEO
of BMW Mercedes-Benz, who resideright there in South Carolina,
if I can get them to understandhow the education system will
help their bottom line, thenthose political entities will
leave me alone.
And that's what I thought Icould replicate.
Well.
(26:55):
The political dynamics is alittle greater than I thought.
So the, engine was such aroundthis idea of attacking, DEI
banning books.
Mm-hmm.
That engine started three orfour administrations ago.
Mm-hmm.
And it's changed names overtime.
(27:15):
And now it's like the Moms forLiberty or the Daughters of the
Confederate or the Tea Party.
All of those different entitieswere the engine that got Donald
Trump to where he's at now.
And, and because that engine wasso heavily influenced, I
couldn't do anything about it.
(27:36):
It was already there.
It didn't matter what I, couldget the, because the engine was
already in place when I gotthere.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (27:42):
Yeah.
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (27:43):
But that was my naivety.
But I think to fight politicalentities, or agendas, you have
to have good relationship withthe people that pulled the purse
strings.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_10 (27:54):
I look at this a few different
ways.
when we think about back to NoChild Left Behind.
All right, no child left behindis a code to me, right?
That's a code.
I can live by that.
But people fought the systemthat was put underneath it and
they fought it because it was apush down.
(28:16):
Somebody saying you have to dosomething right.
so I still think that No ChildLeft Behind was good.
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallie (28:25):
It was good in theory.
I think that there wasn't enoughtime putting the infrastructure
in place to support it.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-202 (28:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I, I feel like sometimes assuperintendent, people look at
you as the political adversaryand they're not willing to move
forward because they think thatyou are telling them which way
to go.
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (28:46):
Right.
mark-guest667_1_05-16-2025_ (28:47):
So, from their perspective, how do
you think about it from there?
bryan-wright-and-eric-gallien (28:51):
I think that's, a legitimate,
perspective to have.
Fortunately, when I was in myfirst district, which was seen
as the leader I basically wasinternally grown, right?
So I had those relationships andcredibility.
Now, I don't care how muchcredibility you have with
people, they still question youwhen you're the main man.
(29:12):
Mm-hmm.
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (29:13):
The politics are such now that, that
people don't even really careabout the kids.
It's not even about the kidsanymore.
It's about the agenda andwhatever that agenda is.
It's unfortunate because thekids are gonna suffer.
At the end of the day, the kidsare gonna suffer.
And that's the unfortunate partabout what's going on to this
day.
It's gotten so bad that.
(29:35):
At one point we used to havesome humanity about it and said,
well, we're gonna at least keepthe kids safe.
But now it's lost that.
Mark, I know you feel stronglyabout this, this whole issue
regarding, students and havingpolitics and education.
That the whole idea.
mark-guest396_2_05-16-202 (29:51):
Well, I, think that it's unacceptable
that we ever accept a loss,whoever that is.
You know, I, look at thesethings like, like this
conversation today is so, sopowerful.
as a, uh, administrator, as acoach out there supporting
people, I listen to these thingsand, and I can only be better at
what I do.
(30:12):
and I could think that everybodythat listens to this could be
better if they would just takethe components and that, that
code concept and the structurethat we continue to hear from
effective leaders that he talkedabout today, going through code
climate, culture into thecurriculum, making the
connections, working on'em atthe same time, people would just
(30:33):
take those concepts that value.
can set across, set aside thepolitics, they can set aside
some of those things and reallylook at that.
The end product is our students.
It's not us.
I always
bryan-wright-and-eric-galli (30:47):
say education right.
mark-guest396_2_05-16-2025_11 (30:48):
a piece of cake without the
adults.
And, and it's because it'salways an adulting issue.
The politics you talked about isan adulting issue.
I think that your message todaywas extremely powerful in that
way.
People can set politics asideand really think about what's
best for kids.
Keeping the main thing, the mainthing you say a lot, Bryan you
(31:09):
know, I appreciate everythingyou said today, your honesty
about some of those things.
One last thing I would say, isyour role as a superintendent,
feels like politics sometimesitself.
I always tell people it's justmy role, You mentioned earlier,
everybody in the school's, aleader, a kid, a teacher,
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (31:28):
Right,
mark-guest396_2_05-16 (31:28):
whatever.
just your role.
That's what you are hired to do.
That component.
bryan-wright-and-eric-ga (31:35):
right,
mark-guest396_2_05-16-2025 (31:35):
They need to understand that you're
doing your component and you'reasking them to do their
component.
So students learn.
bryan-wright-and-eric-g (31:42):
Exactly that.
You put that perfectly.
If more people understood onboth sides, so if the employees
understood that, you're not theperson that's gonna come in and
deal with a behavior problem.
You're the face of the district.
You're the person that's makingpeople understand why they
should support the institution,right?
And how do we interface witheach one another?
(32:04):
That's what your role is.
The the board needs tounderstand that you are the one
that's hiring the right personand doing the right thing for
the right purpose, and which isto educate kids.
And if they would just let thesuperintendent do that.
And even if some leaders,'causesome superintendents don't truly
(32:24):
understand their role.
They don't really understand.
They because they're busy tryingto manage the classroom.
I've worked with some leaders,superintendents that would
chastise a teacher.
You don't, cha that's not ever,superintendents are always
supposed to shake hands andkiss, babies.
That's, that's what we do.
We don't go, we don't chastisekids.
(32:46):
We don't chastise teachers.
At this point in time, I'm gonnaput a wrap to the conversation.
I think we've had a richconversation today.
I wanna make sure I say, a hugethank you to Dr.
Eric Gallien for his honesty,courage, and leadership he
shared with us today.
There's a reason why I respectand honor this man.
Because the things he's done inthe past, the adversity he's
(33:07):
overcome and the leadership he'sshown me and helped me become a
better leader.
Now, there's one takeaway fromthis conversation is that
adversity doesn't define you.
How you respond to it does,whether you're in a classroom,
the main office, or juststepping into leadership.
Remember, every setback can be aset up for growth.
(33:27):
If you found value in today'sepisode, please share with a
colleague.
Subscribe or leave us a review.
It helps us, keep bringing youconversations that we feel
matter.
Until next time, keep leadingwith your heart and stay
educationally relevant.
Thank you all much appreciated.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
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