January 28, 2025 • 26 mins
Growing Intentionally via Systemic Thinking
by Dr. Frank Davila
This is an insightful perspective! Growth, whether personal or professional, often requires a deliberate and intentional approach. Dr. Frank Davila's emphasis on systemic thinking highlights the importance of preparation and understanding the interconnectedness of actions and decisions in leadership and teaching.
For more information about the the topics discussed, contact us at
Bryan Wright: brwright44@gmail.com
Mark McBeth: mark@educationalrelevance.org
If you found value in today’s episode, share it with a colleague, subscribe, and leave us a review. It helps us keep bringing you conversations that matter.
Thanks for listening. Until next time, keep leading with heart—and stay educationally relevant.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bryan (00:00):
Hello.
Welcome to EducationalRelevance, a platform for
experienced educators to shareproven successful strategies to
educate today's youth.
My name is Bryan Wright.
I'm an educational consultant inthe Racine Unified School
District.
I'm also an adjunct professorfrom Concordia University,
Wisconsin.
With me today is my partner incrime, Mr.
(00:21):
Mark McBeth, who is a provenauthor an educational leader.
Also we have a guest today, Dr.
Frank Davila.
Frank is a, inspiration to me.
also a man who comes with somany new educational ideas and
strategies that we can utilizeboth as administrators and
(00:42):
teachers.
And we're going to talk aboutGISTT Growing, Intentionally via
Systemic Thinking.
It's called GISTT.
And what we're going to do istalk about this program more at
length, how educators in boththe administrative realm and the
educational realm in theclassroom can be utilized to
(01:03):
students' benefit.
So with that being said,welcome, Frank.
How you doing today, sir?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-202 (01:09):
I'm doing great., Thank you so much.
Bryan (01:11):
Frank, let's start with this.
We want to make sure youintroduce GIST with us.
And then at that time, Mark, I'mgoing to turn this over to you
because you are our, esteemed,interviewer.
And so let's get started.
So Frank talked to us about theintroduction of GIST.
Absolutely, when I was thinkingabout GISTT,
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_ (01:26):
I was thinking about growing
intentionally, but also viasystemic process.
Because if you want to havegrowth, it has to be done with
intentionality.
It has to be done in a processwhere you make it happen,
because many times we think wedo things by accident, but
nothing is done by accident whenyou're in a leadership or in a
classroom.
You have to have preparationbeforehand.
(01:47):
You know, in your career, forexample, we've all chosen to be
there.
And even the fact that we chosenot to be there, and to not to
choose another career, that wasa choice that we made.
So given that, because we are ina selective path, how do we now
do a good homage to ourselves,to make things even better, so
they can grow and keep providingmore support to the people that
(02:09):
we serve.
And, and the GIST process, uh,Bryan, I was thinking about
strategic planning when Ithought about GIST.
Because when I think oforganizations, and I think a lot
of us, and those of us listeninghere today, you're part of an
organization.
Um, I'm part of an organization,in this particular case, a non
profit, where I'm a boardmember, we're going through a
(02:31):
strategic planning process.
But it's for the whole group.
And I was thinking, okay, whatabout the individual?
What does the individual fit inand how does the individual
actually grow themselves so thatthey can then impart what
they've known and be, and evengrow the organization.
And sometimes we don't do thatenough.
So I said, well, let me writeabout that because I'm thinking
(02:53):
of the individual now and notthe organization.
Yes, the organization needs us,but we're, we got to grow
ourselves before we can actuallybe a part and be a positive
element for the organization.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (03:04):
so, Frank, I went to school.
Don't I know it?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-20 (03:07):
Yes, when you say you went to school,
meaning that you understand allthis process,
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (03:12):
Yeah.
So why, why the constant growth?
If I've already spent thateffort of learning about a topic
frank-s--davila_3_12-17 (03:20):
Because in our work environment, we're
always doing different things,different things during
different times of the day.
For example, as a school leader,you can walk into the building.
They can get interrupted becauseyou have a frustrated teacher or
a parent or you have a childthat has a special need.
Or you have some other issues.
Somebody called from thedirector's office,
(03:41):
superintendent's office aboutthe budget issue.
So all of a sudden you're throwninto different kind of
gyrations.
you say you're learning.
Yes, you are learning, but thenhow do you categorize that?
And how do you take advantage ofthat learning process to make it
even better?
Uh, because sometimes when wehave interruptions, we either
get so frustrated.
Or we get discouraged, or wesay, you know, done here.
(04:04):
I don't really think I can dothis job.
And, or we can say, you know, wedon't have enough information,
or we don't have enoughbackground.
But yes, you do.
And what I'm trying to impart toeverybody here is that we're in
this position because we choseit.
And we chose it because weprepared for it.
And we prepared because we knowwhat we can do, and we're doing
what we love.
(04:25):
But is that enough?
Do we have enough in our system,in our, in our think tank to
keep moving forward?
Because if you think you'vegrown enough, then that means
you stop learning.
You stop growing.
Because then you don't haveanything else to go for.
And to me that would be atragedy to have somebody say,
hey, I've got it all, So you'vegot to learn from whatever
(04:49):
experience you have that day,from whatever meetings you have
that day, whatever phone callyou have that day.
whatever other interruption, youhave to take that as a learning
process keep growing because ifyou don't, and again, many times
when we are thinking perhaps oftrying to find a way to learn,
(05:11):
don't talk to other people.
We just sometimes we think wedon't have enough to offer or
information to offer to otherpeople.
But again, I mentioned in one ofmy articles and I mentioned.
that one time I had with thisparticular medical doctor, I
told him, you know, I've got agallbladder issue, I think.
And he looked at me and he said,you know, Frank, um, I can take
(05:33):
care of that, and I'm damn good.
I mean, I'm a great physician.
And I say that because I thinkas teachers, as administrators,
we're good.
We know that.
We've got the title, thecredentials, but we don't take
advantage of that mindset.
And because we say, okay, if, ifI'm where I think I am and I'm
not going to grow anymore, thenwhere are we?
(05:55):
Are we going to stop?
that's what I want to call aboutsystemic.
You have to be intentional.
And I want to talk about thosein a few minutes as far as the
various aspects of growing.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (06:04):
so that, that's 1 of the things
that was going, you just usedthe word I was thinking of
intentional.
It sounds like you're, you'resaying that we need to stop and
reflect and make intentionalcheck marks to say I'm learning
something new.
I want to capture and reuse it.
Would that be correct?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2 (06:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Because if we, if we're notintentional about it, then we're
just kind of letting it happento us.
We have to get control of what'shappening to us.
Uh, because if we're notintentional, then we're just uh,
having other people tell us whatto do.
We're having the situationdictate how we, how we react.
We're not being proactivebecause we're not thinking.
(06:45):
We're not stopping to pause.
We're not pausing at all toreflect like you said.
And in order to be intentional,that means you have to have that
energy and that desire, inSpanish we call it ganas.
Ganas meaning wanting to.
have to have that desire toactually go out and do something
about it intentionally ratherthan just simply say, Hey, it'll
(07:08):
happen.
Or, you know, after lunch it'll,it'll straighten itself out.
You know, we expect, or somebodywill take care of it.
maybe they will, but if not,then we're not in charge we
haven't taken that intentionalstep happen.
Does that make
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (07:24):
Yeah, yeah.
So there's a program out there,an initiative that helps school
administrators.
It's called Sam.
But, uh, within that, um, as astrategic management type of
program, they have somebodyassigned to help administrator
reflect purposefully throughoutthe day to see if they are, um,
(07:45):
capturing and retaininginformation that they've seen
with teachers when they'rewalking in and out of the
classrooms and stuff.
Um, Is this something that weneed somebody else to tell us to
learn?
Or can we self reflect and dothings
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_ (08:00):
I would say both.
I would say both because manytimes when we a new position,
for example, I've known a newsuperintendents came on board
this year, and I'm sure all ofus know some principles that
took on a position this year andthey're here.
We are half of the year gone nowthey're reflecting.
And is this what I signed upfor?
Or do I need to do anything elseto make myself more visible?
(08:26):
I have the tools?
So yes, like you said, maybethere's a checklist that we can
use to help us find a way torecheck ourselves and to reflect
and say, okay, I've got to goback and learn more about this
particular issue, whether it bein the budget arena,
professional development, or incurriculum, or whatever else
that's out there that's reallycropping up as being a deficit,
(08:48):
either in your line of work orin the deficit within the
organization.
And so if you find that, becausemany times we so much on deficit
but we don't focus on what makesthings change around, what can
change a deficit to somethingpositive.
And so we need, again that goesback to what you're saying, we
can use a tool or we can justpause and reflect on it because
(09:11):
either way we need to find a wayto sure that we take control of
the situation.
Bryan (09:17):
let me ask this question, how do we go from intentionality
and what we're discussing to asystems approach?
How are we going to, to deliverthe material?
And that would do about
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (09:26):
That's just where I was going.
Yeah.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2 (09:29):
Yeah, you know, when, when you think
about systems, that's when youlook at the whole package and
you look at the way thateverything's involved because
everything's seamless, so tospeak, everything's in there,
you know, when you think about ahigh school, for example, as a
comprehensive high school, youhave all these departments, all
these people, doing, differentthings, you know, you have the
(09:50):
band, the athletics, themilitary, you know, the ROTC and
so forth.
Then you have the classrooms.
But how do you put all thatsystems and package it together
for it to make sense?
In other words, now you've gotto go back and appraise each
element of that system.
And what is each elementcontributing?
if it's not contributing in apositive way, what's keeping it
(10:13):
from doing that?
What are some areas that areholding it back?
Because then you look at itsystemically.
Because then you look at what'shappening that's going well,
what's happening that's comingup as barriers and then you
systemically look at thatbecause many times when we think
about a, uh, our building, wedon't think about other people
(10:33):
outside at the, the districtoffice that can be helping us.
We just lock in on our buildingand, but we've got to go beyond
that.
to, sometimes we get so lockedin on some one particular
aspect.
Same thing in a classroom.
You know, we get locked into theclassroom, but we don't think
about other people around orother experts.
And, and other.
So, we need to explore, find thestrengths, find the weaknesses,
(11:00):
the challenges, systemically Andwhen you say systemically, that
means you take the time to make,to review it, to capture
everything that's going on in away that then you can notate it
and determine exactly this iswhere I want to be, this is
where we're going, and if not,then why not?
(11:21):
what I'm asking by way ofsystemic approach.
Does that make sense?
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (11:25):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I do.
Uh, you're making me think aboutsomething.
Um, um, I think it's a militaryconcept, but it's called
improvise, adapt and overcome.
So aren't I just just adaptingand changing as the day goes on
and dealing with it?
(11:45):
Or is it something differentthan that?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-20 (11:50):
it's a combination, because you have
to adapt, obviously, to makesure you don't get, uh, go
sideways and go in the wrongdirection.
So you have to adapt.
But at the same time, at the endof the day, you have to go back
and reflect and say, Okay, thatadaptation that I did, is that
going to stick, or do I need toreadapt and make that something
different?
Or is that a good adaptation andI'm going to stick with it and
I'm going to use it?
(12:11):
For example, you mentionedmilitary and, and let me give
you another military, uh,analogy.
many times in the military we gowhen we march and we then we do
what they call mark time.
time is when you just stand inone location, one leg goes up,
left and right and, but youdon't move.
You go up and down until youhear the command either halt or,
(12:31):
you know, move or march.
so the question is, are we justmarking time in some areas?
Because if we don't adapt, thenwe're just kind of moving,
actually, we're not moving.
We're just standing there,letting things happen around us.
So, I agree, we do needsomething that'll pay attention
to the adaptations, but at thesame time, reflect and see if
(12:53):
those adaptations are somethingthat we can use.
Bryan (12:56):
So make sure I asked this question cause I think you, you
did the GISTt pretty well, butso you're saying what the
thinking process that comes fromthe systemic, uh, of the ideas
we're discussing that thingprocess is also a review is a
review process.
We review what we're doing.
How's it working?
So we can talk about how we'regoing to make some changes again
(13:17):
in the near future.
frank-s--davila_3_1 (13:19):
Absolutely, because when you're talking
about reviewing, you're alsotalking about time, time frame,
benchmarks.
And other kinds of things thatyou're, and goals that you're
setting.
are you going to meet those?
Who's going to be responsiblefor that particular aspect?
And when do we know we're goingto get there?
And do we set a timeline?
And what are the tools that weneed?
(13:40):
if we just go along with theday, but we don't see what we
need to, we don't know who toask for help, kind of support we
need, what kind of materials.
if you ask people, they'll tellyou, you know, Mark, I need
this, or Bryan, I need this.
Can you help me?
But if we don't do itsystemically, then we'll just
get bits and pieces.
(14:00):
if we don't get something that'suseful, we might get the wrong
tool, or the tool is not rightfor that particular purpose at
that particular time.
So we've got to be very, uh,deliberate about it, and know
exactly what we're looking for,and who can help us, and how
they can help us.
Because then we can track whatwe're doing, And, and B, we can
(14:23):
track also the time frame, andthen C, we know when we get
there.
That's what I'm talking aboutbeing systemic.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (14:31):
So if I was to make a connection to,
the work that I've done in thepast, I talk about, routines.
Routines are things that are, apractice that is consistently
done stretched across time.
If we do it consistently, thenwe can measure it.
But if we do it once or twice,we don't know whether it's made
an impact or not.
(14:52):
What you're saying is we need toreally think about it and are we
doing it systematically in a waythat the systemic approach gives
us information to say, is itworking or not working?
Would that be?
frank-s--davila_3_12-1 (15:05):
Exactly.
Yes, because many times we hearthe expression, oh, we've done
that for years.
Well, that's the way it used tobe done.
Well, that's the way theprevious administrator did it,
and it worked okay.
But we never re evaluated it.
We just did it because of habit,or because it was a good way to
get it done, it was efficient.
things can be efficient, but arethey really reaching the
(15:27):
specific target we want to getat?
it really reaching the studentsand their learning and the
development of the, for example,many times differentiation, for
example, is a good way to putit.
When we provide differentiation,not only for instruction, but
also professional development.
Because if we teach the samething the same way every day to
(15:47):
the same people, you havedifferent students that need to
present it to them in differentways.
You have different teachers thatneed it, need to hear about it
in different ways.
Because we have different, youknow, some of us learn visually,
others auditorily, others bydoing.
we take advantage of that if wedo it the same way all the time?
So we, we need to know who thepeople are in front of us
(16:08):
because then we can target whatwe're doing that particular
routine.
If it's reaching everybody, thenthat's a good routine.
If it's only reaching a third,then we need to re examine that
routine.
that's way I would differentiate
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (16:22):
yeah, there was a, there used to be
this thing I, I, I saw where itsaid, I taught my dog how to
whistle and the guy says, well,I don't hear your dog whistling.
He says, I told you I taughthim.
I didn't say he learned it.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2 (16:36):
Yeah, exactly.
Bryan (16:37):
me to a question.
so this is a continual processto GIST process.
That's the first thing I wantedto ask you.
Is this something that is goingto perpetuate continual
learning?
Then is there a timeframe?
something like this, that,somebody say, Hey, I think I'm
mastering the concept of GIST,uh, but at the same time, uh, I
got to see how long it takes,
frank-s--davila_3_12-17 (16:57):
depends what it is you're trying to
accomplish.
For example, if you're trying tobecome better at running the
organization from the curriculumaspect, then you need to spend
time learning the curriculum.
Yeah, exactly.
Finding the experts, and if youneed to find time about
assessment, how to useassessment tools, and how to
measure student growth.
(17:17):
And if you don't have that skillset, you need to find time.
So at some point you're going tosay, yeah, now I got it.
I can do, I can know aboutassessment.
I can ask the right questions ofa teacher to know if the student
is moving academically.
I know enough about finance thatI can now put a budget together.
So at some point you'll get tosay, yeah, I'm ready for the
(17:39):
next goal, for the next learningcurve.
it's, it is continuous until youreach a point where you think
you have enough tools and enoughknowledge base.
Then you go on to somethingelse.
But if you look at it on theoverall for you, all the tools
that you're grabbing and holdingon to, that's your whole
(18:01):
package.
That's your whole growthmindset, because now you're
adding more to your tools, andyou're becoming a bigger person
because now you have more tools,a bigger tool chest, and a
deeper knowledge base.
That's an intentional process.
Many times when we say, you needto think about this, we perhaps
(18:22):
don't realize that sometimes we,our habits that we have diminish
what we do because we want toexperiment with something new.
We don't want to do somethingdifferent because we're, that's
uncomfortable.
So we got to think through, whatis holding us back?
What is making me do something,what's going to stretch me?
Because if I'm going to go infront of a group.
(18:44):
Do I want to do the same thing,or do I want to stretch and
learn something new, dosomething more exciting, and
that's going to be
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (18:50):
well, so habits are conditional,
right?
I mean, they've been conditionedto us because we've done it over
and over again.
It's kind of like thatconversation where you started,
you said, you walk in and you'reputting down the fires at the
beginning of the day afteryou've done that for 10, 20 days
in a row.
All of a sudden, that's what youdo every day.
You just arrive and wait forpeople to come in with the fire
(19:15):
so you can put it out.
My old superintendent, TimDunaway, used to say, put it on
your schedule that you're goingto be doing these things so you
can be an instructional leader.
You have to schedule them wherethey will not become routine.
They do not become dailypractice.
You'll just deal withinterruptions all day.
(19:35):
And I think that's kind of thatintentionality that you're
talking about.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17 (19:39):
because they become used to that kind of
a day, you know, that's yourday, and you become used to it,
and you You don't see anythingdifferent coming up around for
something to excite you.
Unless you go to anotherbuilding and someone else is
doing something differently.
I think when we think aboutbeing transformative, that means
(19:59):
we have to change somethingwithin ourselves, our mindset.
And we have to pause and reflecton what it is that we're doing.
Because if we don't, then we'regoing to do the same thing all
over again.
It'll be like Groundhog Day, soto speak.
Bryan (20:13):
So let me ask this question, Frank.
Uh, so basically, GIST tosomething both administrators
and teachers could use GIST whenhe started talking about
academic change?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-20 (20:25):
Yes, everybody can use the GIST
because GIST is growingintentionally, systemically as
an individual.
you want to be able to know thatyou're making a difference that
you're learning from what you'redoing every day.
you're not being stymied, you'renot going and saying, okay,
today was Monday, I didn't learnanything today, or did I?
(20:49):
You need to stop and think.
So as a teacher oradministrator, look at the day
that just happened, because whenyou look at that day, many
things will help you think, youknow, I want to do things
differently next tomorrow.
if you think of that in thatfashion, and you think, okay,
intentionally, how can I beintentional tomorrow about
(21:09):
something different with aparticular student?
Or how can I think intentionallytomorrow about doing something
with that classroom?
Because if I do, then I begin toplan systemically how I'm going
to accomplish that.
Then it becomes part of mybuilding block and my routine to
be thoughtful, to beintentional, to lay out a plan,
(21:31):
and then the next day, you know,put that plan into action.
Because if we just show up anddon't think about it, then we're
going to wind up with the samesteps that we did the day
before, and nothing's going tochange.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (21:44):
So this shapes our values and
principles and everything.
frank-s--davila_3_1 (21:49):
Absolutely.
Your core values, sometimes ourcore values get in the way,
because we bump into other corevalues and we don't want to give
in.
so we have to be, be able to,willing to listen and to learn
about other people and whattheir core values are.
now we're talking about workingas an, as a unit, as a, an, an
(22:10):
individual, we need to thinkabout my particular beliefs, my
principles, My beliefs andvalues, are they aligned with
everyone else?
Not that we have to give up whatwe are, who we are.
And I'm not suggesting that atall, that we give up core values
or principles.
But the strategies and thetechniques can change.
(22:32):
The process can change withoutyou giving up your core value.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (22:35):
what do people see when we're growing
like that?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_ (22:38):
I think they see excitement.
I think they see energy.
I think they see people taking arisk.
And I also see a lot of peopleasking questions, because if you
want to learn, you're going tohave to ask questions, because
you don't have all the answersas an individual.
I know I don't, and I'm surenone of us do.
when people see us moving about,asking, what do you think about
this, give me your thinking, ifthey see us doing some planning,
(23:01):
some deep planning, how to makechanges, not only short term,
but long term, then they beginto say, hey, we've got something
going here that is not stagnant.
is not going in one, just onedirection.
It has multiple strands to it.
we can pick up energy from this.
We can grow even bigger.
because, uh, we learn, then wepush others to maybe learn.
(23:25):
Because as a leader, you'resetting the example.
You're gauging at the same time.
But they're looking at you, andif you're, uh, don't have the
energy, if you don't have theinterest, then whatever you
suggest is going to fizzle out.
Because they say, well, hereally was or she really wasn't
interested in that.
And look at the way they'reactually kind of letting off the
(23:45):
steam and letting off the pedal.
Uh, so it's back to the wholeroutine.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (23:50):
So one last question.
What's, what's the nugget that Ishould be taking from this?
Um, to change who I am today,right now, this moment.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024 (24:02):
To look in the mirror and look at
who you are Describe yourselfand assess yourself.
Because you have a brand thatyou're putting out.
And every single day out there,you live in a footprint.
And when you live thatfootprint, what is that saying?
And what is your legacy?
And because what you say and theway you behave, the way you
(24:24):
speak, you set the goals, howyou act out the goals, and a
reflection of who you reallyare.
And that tells people, this iswhere I am, and I'm moving, I'm
a person who wants to moveforward, and I want you to come
with me.
Bryan (24:40):
Wow.
That's a way to end it there.
Frank.
I'm telling you that right now.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-202 (24:45):
ha, ha.
Bryan (24:45):
make sure I say this to you.
first of all, excellentquestions, Mark.
I got to say that to you.
I think, You're really in tuneto what was being discussed
today.
Frank, thank you again and makesure we're talking about Frank
is educational change for thehelp assist in how we develop
students educational minds.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2 (25:01):
Yeah, and I think when you present
this in the classroom with thestudents, they can have their
own thinking and understandingof what they mean, what they
think about systemic how theycan process it and how can they
put that together.
Because different people aregood at planning, others are not
very good or don't want to plan,but others are very good at
(25:21):
putting things together andlining pieces and thinking about
long term and so forth.
so if you, they can, cannot doit individually, Bryan, maybe
put up a team of people that canwork together and develop this
just as a team, and then theycan pull it out as individual
from there.
Bryan (25:40):
Well, let me make sure I say this.
I think, uh, we will be happy toprovide a copy of the GISTt,
plan itself, all four parts,will be part of our, our, our,
our program.
make sure you subscribe to usand we want to make sure you do
that.
we'll have this information justask requests.
We'll be happy to provide it toyou.
But in the meantime, I want tomake sure I say to you, doc.
(26:02):
Good to see you, Frank.
It's great to have you on thisprogram.
Mark, always man, always partnerI just think we learn more and
more every time we have,educational leaders on this and
to everybody else.
thank you for listening to usagain.
Everybody take care now.
Bye bye.
frank-s--davila_3_12-1 (26:18):
Goodbye.
Hello.
Welcome to EducationalRelevance, a platform for
experienced educators to shareproven successful strategies to
educate today's youth.
My name is Bryan Wright.
I'm an educational consultant inthe Racine Unified School
District.
I'm also an adjunct professorfrom Concordia University,
Wisconsin.
With me today is my partner incrime, Mr.
(00:21):
Mark McBeth, who is a provenauthor an educational leader.
Also we have a guest today, Dr.
Frank Davila.
Frank is a, inspiration to me.
also a man who comes with somany new educational ideas and
strategies that we can utilizeboth as administrators and
(00:42):
teachers.
And we're going to talk aboutGISTT Growing, Intentionally via
Systemic Thinking.
It's called GISTT.
And what we're going to do istalk about this program more at
length, how educators in boththe administrative realm and the
educational realm in theclassroom can be utilized to
(01:03):
students' benefit.
So with that being said,welcome, Frank.
How you doing today, sir?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-202 (01:09):
I'm doing great., Thank you so much.
Bryan (01:11):
Frank, let's start with this.
We want to make sure youintroduce GIST with us.
And then at that time, Mark, I'mgoing to turn this over to you
because you are our, esteemed,interviewer.
And so let's get started.
So Frank talked to us about theintroduction of GIST.
Absolutely, when I was thinkingabout GISTT,
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_ (01:26):
I was thinking about growing
intentionally, but also viasystemic process.
Because if you want to havegrowth, it has to be done with
intentionality.
It has to be done in a processwhere you make it happen,
because many times we think wedo things by accident, but
nothing is done by accident whenyou're in a leadership or in a
classroom.
You have to have preparationbeforehand.
(01:47):
You know, in your career, forexample, we've all chosen to be
there.
And even the fact that we chosenot to be there, and to not to
choose another career, that wasa choice that we made.
So given that, because we are ina selective path, how do we now
do a good homage to ourselves,to make things even better, so
they can grow and keep providingmore support to the people that
(02:09):
we serve.
And, and the GIST process, uh,Bryan, I was thinking about
strategic planning when Ithought about GIST.
Because when I think oforganizations, and I think a lot
of us, and those of us listeninghere today, you're part of an
organization.
Um, I'm part of an organization,in this particular case, a non
profit, where I'm a boardmember, we're going through a
(02:31):
strategic planning process.
But it's for the whole group.
And I was thinking, okay, whatabout the individual?
What does the individual fit inand how does the individual
actually grow themselves so thatthey can then impart what
they've known and be, and evengrow the organization.
And sometimes we don't do thatenough.
So I said, well, let me writeabout that because I'm thinking
(02:53):
of the individual now and notthe organization.
Yes, the organization needs us,but we're, we got to grow
ourselves before we can actuallybe a part and be a positive
element for the organization.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (03:04):
so, Frank, I went to school.
Don't I know it?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-20 (03:07):
Yes, when you say you went to school,
meaning that you understand allthis process,
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (03:12):
Yeah.
So why, why the constant growth?
If I've already spent thateffort of learning about a topic
frank-s--davila_3_12-17 (03:20):
Because in our work environment, we're
always doing different things,different things during
different times of the day.
For example, as a school leader,you can walk into the building.
They can get interrupted becauseyou have a frustrated teacher or
a parent or you have a childthat has a special need.
Or you have some other issues.
Somebody called from thedirector's office,
(03:41):
superintendent's office aboutthe budget issue.
So all of a sudden you're throwninto different kind of
gyrations.
you say you're learning.
Yes, you are learning, but thenhow do you categorize that?
And how do you take advantage ofthat learning process to make it
even better?
Uh, because sometimes when wehave interruptions, we either
get so frustrated.
Or we get discouraged, or wesay, you know, done here.
(04:04):
I don't really think I can dothis job.
And, or we can say, you know, wedon't have enough information,
or we don't have enoughbackground.
But yes, you do.
And what I'm trying to impart toeverybody here is that we're in
this position because we choseit.
And we chose it because weprepared for it.
And we prepared because we knowwhat we can do, and we're doing
what we love.
(04:25):
But is that enough?
Do we have enough in our system,in our, in our think tank to
keep moving forward?
Because if you think you'vegrown enough, then that means
you stop learning.
You stop growing.
Because then you don't haveanything else to go for.
And to me that would be atragedy to have somebody say,
hey, I've got it all, So you'vegot to learn from whatever
(04:49):
experience you have that day,from whatever meetings you have
that day, whatever phone callyou have that day.
whatever other interruption, youhave to take that as a learning
process keep growing because ifyou don't, and again, many times
when we are thinking perhaps oftrying to find a way to learn,
(05:11):
don't talk to other people.
We just sometimes we think wedon't have enough to offer or
information to offer to otherpeople.
But again, I mentioned in one ofmy articles and I mentioned.
that one time I had with thisparticular medical doctor, I
told him, you know, I've got agallbladder issue, I think.
And he looked at me and he said,you know, Frank, um, I can take
(05:33):
care of that, and I'm damn good.
I mean, I'm a great physician.
And I say that because I thinkas teachers, as administrators,
we're good.
We know that.
We've got the title, thecredentials, but we don't take
advantage of that mindset.
And because we say, okay, if, ifI'm where I think I am and I'm
not going to grow anymore, thenwhere are we?
(05:55):
Are we going to stop?
that's what I want to call aboutsystemic.
You have to be intentional.
And I want to talk about thosein a few minutes as far as the
various aspects of growing.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (06:04):
so that, that's 1 of the things
that was going, you just usedthe word I was thinking of
intentional.
It sounds like you're, you'resaying that we need to stop and
reflect and make intentionalcheck marks to say I'm learning
something new.
I want to capture and reuse it.
Would that be correct?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2 (06:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Because if we, if we're notintentional about it, then we're
just kind of letting it happento us.
We have to get control of what'shappening to us.
Uh, because if we're notintentional, then we're just uh,
having other people tell us whatto do.
We're having the situationdictate how we, how we react.
We're not being proactivebecause we're not thinking.
(06:45):
We're not stopping to pause.
We're not pausing at all toreflect like you said.
And in order to be intentional,that means you have to have that
energy and that desire, inSpanish we call it ganas.
Ganas meaning wanting to.
have to have that desire toactually go out and do something
about it intentionally ratherthan just simply say, Hey, it'll
(07:08):
happen.
Or, you know, after lunch it'll,it'll straighten itself out.
You know, we expect, or somebodywill take care of it.
maybe they will, but if not,then we're not in charge we
haven't taken that intentionalstep happen.
Does that make
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (07:24):
Yeah, yeah.
So there's a program out there,an initiative that helps school
administrators.
It's called Sam.
But, uh, within that, um, as astrategic management type of
program, they have somebodyassigned to help administrator
reflect purposefully throughoutthe day to see if they are, um,
(07:45):
capturing and retaininginformation that they've seen
with teachers when they'rewalking in and out of the
classrooms and stuff.
Um, Is this something that weneed somebody else to tell us to
learn?
Or can we self reflect and dothings
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_ (08:00):
I would say both.
I would say both because manytimes when we a new position,
for example, I've known a newsuperintendents came on board
this year, and I'm sure all ofus know some principles that
took on a position this year andthey're here.
We are half of the year gone nowthey're reflecting.
And is this what I signed upfor?
Or do I need to do anything elseto make myself more visible?
(08:26):
I have the tools?
So yes, like you said, maybethere's a checklist that we can
use to help us find a way torecheck ourselves and to reflect
and say, okay, I've got to goback and learn more about this
particular issue, whether it bein the budget arena,
professional development, or incurriculum, or whatever else
that's out there that's reallycropping up as being a deficit,
(08:48):
either in your line of work orin the deficit within the
organization.
And so if you find that, becausemany times we so much on deficit
but we don't focus on what makesthings change around, what can
change a deficit to somethingpositive.
And so we need, again that goesback to what you're saying, we
can use a tool or we can justpause and reflect on it because
(09:11):
either way we need to find a wayto sure that we take control of
the situation.
Bryan (09:17):
let me ask this question, how do we go from intentionality
and what we're discussing to asystems approach?
How are we going to, to deliverthe material?
And that would do about
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (09:26):
That's just where I was going.
Yeah.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2 (09:29):
Yeah, you know, when, when you think
about systems, that's when youlook at the whole package and
you look at the way thateverything's involved because
everything's seamless, so tospeak, everything's in there,
you know, when you think about ahigh school, for example, as a
comprehensive high school, youhave all these departments, all
these people, doing, differentthings, you know, you have the
(09:50):
band, the athletics, themilitary, you know, the ROTC and
so forth.
Then you have the classrooms.
But how do you put all thatsystems and package it together
for it to make sense?
In other words, now you've gotto go back and appraise each
element of that system.
And what is each elementcontributing?
if it's not contributing in apositive way, what's keeping it
(10:13):
from doing that?
What are some areas that areholding it back?
Because then you look at itsystemically.
Because then you look at what'shappening that's going well,
what's happening that's comingup as barriers and then you
systemically look at thatbecause many times when we think
about a, uh, our building, wedon't think about other people
(10:33):
outside at the, the districtoffice that can be helping us.
We just lock in on our buildingand, but we've got to go beyond
that.
to, sometimes we get so lockedin on some one particular
aspect.
Same thing in a classroom.
You know, we get locked into theclassroom, but we don't think
about other people around orother experts.
And, and other.
So, we need to explore, find thestrengths, find the weaknesses,
(11:00):
the challenges, systemically Andwhen you say systemically, that
means you take the time to make,to review it, to capture
everything that's going on in away that then you can notate it
and determine exactly this iswhere I want to be, this is
where we're going, and if not,then why not?
(11:21):
what I'm asking by way ofsystemic approach.
Does that make sense?
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (11:25):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I do.
Uh, you're making me think aboutsomething.
Um, um, I think it's a militaryconcept, but it's called
improvise, adapt and overcome.
So aren't I just just adaptingand changing as the day goes on
and dealing with it?
(11:45):
Or is it something differentthan that?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-20 (11:50):
it's a combination, because you have
to adapt, obviously, to makesure you don't get, uh, go
sideways and go in the wrongdirection.
So you have to adapt.
But at the same time, at the endof the day, you have to go back
and reflect and say, Okay, thatadaptation that I did, is that
going to stick, or do I need toreadapt and make that something
different?
Or is that a good adaptation andI'm going to stick with it and
I'm going to use it?
(12:11):
For example, you mentionedmilitary and, and let me give
you another military, uh,analogy.
many times in the military we gowhen we march and we then we do
what they call mark time.
time is when you just stand inone location, one leg goes up,
left and right and, but youdon't move.
You go up and down until youhear the command either halt or,
(12:31):
you know, move or march.
so the question is, are we justmarking time in some areas?
Because if we don't adapt, thenwe're just kind of moving,
actually, we're not moving.
We're just standing there,letting things happen around us.
So, I agree, we do needsomething that'll pay attention
to the adaptations, but at thesame time, reflect and see if
(12:53):
those adaptations are somethingthat we can use.
Bryan (12:56):
So make sure I asked this question cause I think you, you
did the GISTt pretty well, butso you're saying what the
thinking process that comes fromthe systemic, uh, of the ideas
we're discussing that thingprocess is also a review is a
review process.
We review what we're doing.
How's it working?
So we can talk about how we'regoing to make some changes again
(13:17):
in the near future.
frank-s--davila_3_1 (13:19):
Absolutely, because when you're talking
about reviewing, you're alsotalking about time, time frame,
benchmarks.
And other kinds of things thatyou're, and goals that you're
setting.
are you going to meet those?
Who's going to be responsiblefor that particular aspect?
And when do we know we're goingto get there?
And do we set a timeline?
And what are the tools that weneed?
(13:40):
if we just go along with theday, but we don't see what we
need to, we don't know who toask for help, kind of support we
need, what kind of materials.
if you ask people, they'll tellyou, you know, Mark, I need
this, or Bryan, I need this.
Can you help me?
But if we don't do itsystemically, then we'll just
get bits and pieces.
(14:00):
if we don't get something that'suseful, we might get the wrong
tool, or the tool is not rightfor that particular purpose at
that particular time.
So we've got to be very, uh,deliberate about it, and know
exactly what we're looking for,and who can help us, and how
they can help us.
Because then we can track whatwe're doing, And, and B, we can
(14:23):
track also the time frame, andthen C, we know when we get
there.
That's what I'm talking aboutbeing systemic.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (14:31):
So if I was to make a connection to,
the work that I've done in thepast, I talk about, routines.
Routines are things that are, apractice that is consistently
done stretched across time.
If we do it consistently, thenwe can measure it.
But if we do it once or twice,we don't know whether it's made
an impact or not.
(14:52):
What you're saying is we need toreally think about it and are we
doing it systematically in a waythat the systemic approach gives
us information to say, is itworking or not working?
Would that be?
frank-s--davila_3_12-1 (15:05):
Exactly.
Yes, because many times we hearthe expression, oh, we've done
that for years.
Well, that's the way it used tobe done.
Well, that's the way theprevious administrator did it,
and it worked okay.
But we never re evaluated it.
We just did it because of habit,or because it was a good way to
get it done, it was efficient.
things can be efficient, but arethey really reaching the
(15:27):
specific target we want to getat?
it really reaching the studentsand their learning and the
development of the, for example,many times differentiation, for
example, is a good way to putit.
When we provide differentiation,not only for instruction, but
also professional development.
Because if we teach the samething the same way every day to
(15:47):
the same people, you havedifferent students that need to
present it to them in differentways.
You have different teachers thatneed it, need to hear about it
in different ways.
Because we have different, youknow, some of us learn visually,
others auditorily, others bydoing.
we take advantage of that if wedo it the same way all the time?
So we, we need to know who thepeople are in front of us
(16:08):
because then we can target whatwe're doing that particular
routine.
If it's reaching everybody, thenthat's a good routine.
If it's only reaching a third,then we need to re examine that
routine.
that's way I would differentiate
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (16:22):
yeah, there was a, there used to be
this thing I, I, I saw where itsaid, I taught my dog how to
whistle and the guy says, well,I don't hear your dog whistling.
He says, I told you I taughthim.
I didn't say he learned it.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2 (16:36):
Yeah, exactly.
Bryan (16:37):
me to a question.
so this is a continual processto GIST process.
That's the first thing I wantedto ask you.
Is this something that is goingto perpetuate continual
learning?
Then is there a timeframe?
something like this, that,somebody say, Hey, I think I'm
mastering the concept of GIST,uh, but at the same time, uh, I
got to see how long it takes,
frank-s--davila_3_12-17 (16:57):
depends what it is you're trying to
accomplish.
For example, if you're trying tobecome better at running the
organization from the curriculumaspect, then you need to spend
time learning the curriculum.
Yeah, exactly.
Finding the experts, and if youneed to find time about
assessment, how to useassessment tools, and how to
measure student growth.
(17:17):
And if you don't have that skillset, you need to find time.
So at some point you're going tosay, yeah, now I got it.
I can do, I can know aboutassessment.
I can ask the right questions ofa teacher to know if the student
is moving academically.
I know enough about finance thatI can now put a budget together.
So at some point you'll get tosay, yeah, I'm ready for the
(17:39):
next goal, for the next learningcurve.
it's, it is continuous until youreach a point where you think
you have enough tools and enoughknowledge base.
Then you go on to somethingelse.
But if you look at it on theoverall for you, all the tools
that you're grabbing and holdingon to, that's your whole
(18:01):
package.
That's your whole growthmindset, because now you're
adding more to your tools, andyou're becoming a bigger person
because now you have more tools,a bigger tool chest, and a
deeper knowledge base.
That's an intentional process.
Many times when we say, you needto think about this, we perhaps
(18:22):
don't realize that sometimes we,our habits that we have diminish
what we do because we want toexperiment with something new.
We don't want to do somethingdifferent because we're, that's
uncomfortable.
So we got to think through, whatis holding us back?
What is making me do something,what's going to stretch me?
Because if I'm going to go infront of a group.
(18:44):
Do I want to do the same thing,or do I want to stretch and
learn something new, dosomething more exciting, and
that's going to be
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (18:50):
well, so habits are conditional,
right?
I mean, they've been conditionedto us because we've done it over
and over again.
It's kind of like thatconversation where you started,
you said, you walk in and you'reputting down the fires at the
beginning of the day afteryou've done that for 10, 20 days
in a row.
All of a sudden, that's what youdo every day.
You just arrive and wait forpeople to come in with the fire
(19:15):
so you can put it out.
My old superintendent, TimDunaway, used to say, put it on
your schedule that you're goingto be doing these things so you
can be an instructional leader.
You have to schedule them wherethey will not become routine.
They do not become dailypractice.
You'll just deal withinterruptions all day.
(19:35):
And I think that's kind of thatintentionality that you're
talking about.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17 (19:39):
because they become used to that kind of
a day, you know, that's yourday, and you become used to it,
and you You don't see anythingdifferent coming up around for
something to excite you.
Unless you go to anotherbuilding and someone else is
doing something differently.
I think when we think aboutbeing transformative, that means
(19:59):
we have to change somethingwithin ourselves, our mindset.
And we have to pause and reflecton what it is that we're doing.
Because if we don't, then we'regoing to do the same thing all
over again.
It'll be like Groundhog Day, soto speak.
Bryan (20:13):
So let me ask this question, Frank.
Uh, so basically, GIST tosomething both administrators
and teachers could use GIST whenhe started talking about
academic change?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-20 (20:25):
Yes, everybody can use the GIST
because GIST is growingintentionally, systemically as
an individual.
you want to be able to know thatyou're making a difference that
you're learning from what you'redoing every day.
you're not being stymied, you'renot going and saying, okay,
today was Monday, I didn't learnanything today, or did I?
(20:49):
You need to stop and think.
So as a teacher oradministrator, look at the day
that just happened, because whenyou look at that day, many
things will help you think, youknow, I want to do things
differently next tomorrow.
if you think of that in thatfashion, and you think, okay,
intentionally, how can I beintentional tomorrow about
(21:09):
something different with aparticular student?
Or how can I think intentionallytomorrow about doing something
with that classroom?
Because if I do, then I begin toplan systemically how I'm going
to accomplish that.
Then it becomes part of mybuilding block and my routine to
be thoughtful, to beintentional, to lay out a plan,
(21:31):
and then the next day, you know,put that plan into action.
Because if we just show up anddon't think about it, then we're
going to wind up with the samesteps that we did the day
before, and nothing's going tochange.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (21:44):
So this shapes our values and
principles and everything.
frank-s--davila_3_1 (21:49):
Absolutely.
Your core values, sometimes ourcore values get in the way,
because we bump into other corevalues and we don't want to give
in.
so we have to be, be able to,willing to listen and to learn
about other people and whattheir core values are.
now we're talking about workingas an, as a unit, as a, an, an
(22:10):
individual, we need to thinkabout my particular beliefs, my
principles, My beliefs andvalues, are they aligned with
everyone else?
Not that we have to give up whatwe are, who we are.
And I'm not suggesting that atall, that we give up core values
or principles.
But the strategies and thetechniques can change.
(22:32):
The process can change withoutyou giving up your core value.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (22:35):
what do people see when we're growing
like that?
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024_ (22:38):
I think they see excitement.
I think they see energy.
I think they see people taking arisk.
And I also see a lot of peopleasking questions, because if you
want to learn, you're going tohave to ask questions, because
you don't have all the answersas an individual.
I know I don't, and I'm surenone of us do.
when people see us moving about,asking, what do you think about
this, give me your thinking, ifthey see us doing some planning,
(23:01):
some deep planning, how to makechanges, not only short term,
but long term, then they beginto say, hey, we've got something
going here that is not stagnant.
is not going in one, just onedirection.
It has multiple strands to it.
we can pick up energy from this.
We can grow even bigger.
because, uh, we learn, then wepush others to maybe learn.
(23:25):
Because as a leader, you'resetting the example.
You're gauging at the same time.
But they're looking at you, andif you're, uh, don't have the
energy, if you don't have theinterest, then whatever you
suggest is going to fizzle out.
Because they say, well, hereally was or she really wasn't
interested in that.
And look at the way they'reactually kind of letting off the
(23:45):
steam and letting off the pedal.
Uh, so it's back to the wholeroutine.
mark_3_12-17-2024_170019 (23:50):
So one last question.
What's, what's the nugget that Ishould be taking from this?
Um, to change who I am today,right now, this moment.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2024 (24:02):
To look in the mirror and look at
who you are Describe yourselfand assess yourself.
Because you have a brand thatyou're putting out.
And every single day out there,you live in a footprint.
And when you live thatfootprint, what is that saying?
And what is your legacy?
And because what you say and theway you behave, the way you
(24:24):
speak, you set the goals, howyou act out the goals, and a
reflection of who you reallyare.
And that tells people, this iswhere I am, and I'm moving, I'm
a person who wants to moveforward, and I want you to come
with me.
Bryan (24:40):
Wow.
That's a way to end it there.
Frank.
I'm telling you that right now.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-202 (24:45):
ha, ha.
Bryan (24:45):
make sure I say this to you.
first of all, excellentquestions, Mark.
I got to say that to you.
I think, You're really in tuneto what was being discussed
today.
Frank, thank you again and makesure we're talking about Frank
is educational change for thehelp assist in how we develop
students educational minds.
frank-s--davila_3_12-17-2 (25:01):
Yeah, and I think when you present
this in the classroom with thestudents, they can have their
own thinking and understandingof what they mean, what they
think about systemic how theycan process it and how can they
put that together.
Because different people aregood at planning, others are not
very good or don't want to plan,but others are very good at
(25:21):
putting things together andlining pieces and thinking about
long term and so forth.
so if you, they can, cannot doit individually, Bryan, maybe
put up a team of people that canwork together and develop this
just as a team, and then theycan pull it out as individual
from there.
Bryan (25:40):
Well, let me make sure I say this.
I think, uh, we will be happy toprovide a copy of the GISTt,
plan itself, all four parts,will be part of our, our, our,
our program.
make sure you subscribe to usand we want to make sure you do
that.
we'll have this information justask requests.
We'll be happy to provide it toyou.
But in the meantime, I want tomake sure I say to you, doc.
(26:02):
Good to see you, Frank.
It's great to have you on thisprogram.
Mark, always man, always partnerI just think we learn more and
more every time we have,educational leaders on this and
to everybody else.
thank you for listening to usagain.
Everybody take care now.
Bye bye.
frank-s--davila_3_12-1 (26:18):
Goodbye.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.