February 26, 2024 • 19 mins
Our guests, Sue Alexander and Dr. Sarah Jerome, share strategies, Isolate the Issue and Predict and Prevent, which efficiently and effectively address problems that arise for the school administrator. This episode will be helpful to new and experienced school administrators.
Sue Alexander served on administrative teams in three different public-school districts holding the positions of
- Superintendent
- High School Principal
- Assistant Principal
- Prior to education, worked 10 years in business finance and held the positions of Secretary of the Board of Directors of a no-load mutual fund and as Vice President of an Investment Advisory Company.
"In diversity lies stability."
Dr. Sarah Jerome has
- 46 years in education
- 23 of those years as a superintendent: 15 years in Kettle Moraine, WI and 8 years in Arlington Heights, IL
- Principal at Nicolet High School and Assistant Superintendent in Rockford Illinois.
- Served in 9 school districts in 5 states.
- Served as President of AASA-American Association of School Administrators.
- Currently working for HYA Consulting which does superintendent searches and strategic planning for school districts.
My mantra and motto: Public Education is the Backbone of Democracy!
For more information about the the topics discussed, contact us at
Bryan Wright: brwright44@gmail.com
Mark McBeth: mark@educationalrelevance.org
If you found value in today’s episode, share it with a colleague, subscribe, and leave us a review. It helps us keep bringing you conversations that matter.
Thanks for listening. Until next time, keep leading with heart—and stay educationally relevant.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Track 1 (00:02):
Hello.
Welcome to EducationalRelevance, a platform for
experienced educators to shareproven successful strategies to
educate today's students.
My name is Brian Wright.
I'm here at my co-host MarkMacbeth, and we have two
wonderful guests.
Today we're talking aboutleadership.
We got Sue Alexander and Dr.
Sarah Jerome.
(00:22):
Both of these ladies areexperienced principals,
superintendents.
Dr.
Jerome is the one that got me ineducation in first place.
Sue Alexander, I just refer heras partner.
She's been my partner forseveral years, We worked
together in school as well asworking alongside each other at
Concordia university.
Mark, why don't you go ahead andtake this over as school
(00:44):
administrators.
it seems like 90% of your job'sgonna be.
Problem solving.
As school administrators dealwith daily problems, what kind
of processes do you think thatthey should be going through
when somebody walks in the doorand boom, or it's something that
data is showing them.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (01:03):
Well, as Sarah and I have talked about
this, I.
Problems are just a part of thejob.
And if you don't like solvingproblems, there's probably a
better career choice thaneducation.
the fun of it is figuring outwhat you bring to the issues
that you're dealing with, thenhaving kind of a, an overview
(01:25):
that helps you look at problemsand decide, is this one I can
tackle myself very quickly, veryefficiently, or is it one where
I need to bring in.
People on my team.
It could be guidance counselors,it could be teachers, could be
support staff, could be membersof the school board.
Or is it something that needs abigger approach?
(01:48):
It might need to bring acommunity perspective in as well
as an internal perspectivewithin the district.
So that's kind of the frameworkthat we're looking at, and it's
important to think in thoseterms if you solve every problem
as if it were a simple problemthat you could solve, you will
irritate the dickens out of yourfaculty.
(02:09):
They, they want to be involvedif it affects them.
they want to know that you'relistening.
with that, I'm kind of gonnathrow this to Sarah for a second
to talk a little about some ofthe simple problems that as a
school leader, you should becomfortable in, making a command
(02:29):
decision, moving on withwhatever the next issue is
you're dealing with.
Hello.
I think before we even getstarted on the problem solving
one of the things that bothteachers and administrators need
to pay attention to is what arethe policies that exist in the
district?
(02:50):
That you can rely on and thatcan help you know what at least
previously has been establishedto give you guidance, and that
is often very helpful.
So some simple problems thatmight, come your way on a daily
basis.
Could be anything from theequipment that lines the
(03:11):
football field, and did it breakdown and can you get that fixed
right away because the game istonight?
Yes, you can do that, and youdon't have to have a committee
to help you do that.
or if you've got a snow day,here's a simple problem.
Too much snow.
You can't get the kids to schoolsafely or back home safely.
(03:32):
It seems like a simple problem,but it is disguised because it
affects everybody in the schoolcommunity, and if you treat it.
As an independent decisionmaking, may run into some bigger
problems, like 600 phone callson your telephone by the end of
(03:52):
the day.
True.
So many superintendents andprincipals have decided that on
something like closing a school,it is really very much in their
favor to.
Have a committee process so thatbefore they close the school,
call and hear what each of thecontiguous schools are doing.
(04:15):
So, that's a good example of howsomething starts out small, your
own little area, and she'sspeaking from a superintendent
perspective at that time.
Usually principals don't makethose decisions, but principals
can live in different parts ofthe district.
I.
And depending upon the size ofthe district, if you're a rural
administrator, it can be 6, 7, 8times the size of a city school
(04:38):
district.
Then bringing in those voices sothat you know what it looks like
in your community is extremelyimportant.
When I get a particularly angryparent about a closing decision,
I'd thank'em for calling andtell'em I would love to put you
on my call list at four in themorning because I don't have
anybody in your area.
Would you be willing to serve inthat fashion?
(05:00):
And you'd be amazed.
Some people do, and I just bringthem right along with me.
So those are, ways to thinkabout what are the.
Simple natures of the issue thatyou're being presented with.
And do I need to bring thisalong a little further?
of the ones that principals andsuperintendents deal with that
(05:22):
can be simple or complex,depending on the issue, is an
angry parent storms in and wantsyour immediate attention right
at that point.
And you can be involved insomething else.
you may have to decide, is thissomething that I have to bring
them in and I have to actuallybe involved in the diffusing
process, or is this somethingthat my secretary could get the
(05:48):
person a cup of coffee, let'emsit out in the office area for a
bit until they move from a 10down to a two or three, where
you can solve problems on a 10point scale?
You can't solve problems withpeople who are at a 10.
Can I interject to that?
Please do, When angry parentscome and we all have angry
parents sitting in our officefrom time to time, it is a
(06:11):
decision that you make as towhether you see that person
immediately or you wait a while.
And I respect Sue Alexander'sapproach to.
Letting an opportunity for cooldown period.
On the other hand, I havewitnessed and experienced very
personally the cool down periodhasn't happened after a few
(06:33):
minutes, and it seems to besteaming up.
so I do think that sometimesintervening early on and letting
the person feel.
Heard and addressed anotherapproach to it.
Yeah.
I think the other thing is, andthis for the secretary or
whoever might see that personfirst.
(06:55):
The question is, have you metwith the teacher first?
Is this a problem that you'vejumped several levels to have
solved?
you meet with the person whoactually is personally involved
in the interaction, sometimesthose are interventions I think
that can also help.
Track 1 (07:16):
how do you diffuse the situation, once the parent gets
to where they're gonna be, thatyou get the resolution you seek.
Okay.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22-202 (07:21):
If you need to take an angry parent
quickly.
One of the things that a schoolleader taught me years ago was
to keep a stack of kinds ofthings in your office with a
nice supply of pencils.
a person who's quite volatile,so they're up at the 6, 7, 8, 9
level on a 10 point scale youinvite'em in, you sit'em down,
(07:44):
you grab that pad of paper and apencil, and you listen.
Help me to understand.
What your concern is, and thenjust be quiet and let'em talk.
But you will be involved in thatdeescalating situation if you
pull that very angry parent in.
and it's okay to do, especiallyif you think they're gonna sit
(08:05):
out in the office and create aproblem for everybody else who
comes in.
that, that business of grabbingthat pad of paper being quiet.
Is a very helpful settling kindof thing, and it allows you,
number one to draw a circle onthat pad where I would put my
(08:26):
finger listening for the keypoints.
Mm-Hmm.
I was trained as a biologist, soI called behavior of angry
parents.
They are very prone to usingwhat we call kill deer behavior.
That is, they will bring you allaround that egg.
And your job is to try andfigure out what's the heart of
(08:47):
this?
And then deciding is it a parentproblem, is it a student
problem, is it a school problem?
And we need to take ownershipfor it.
So if that kind of helps you tothink about a way to deal with
that, where you are in theinformation gathering stage.
the diffusing stage at the sametime.
(09:09):
Sue, I think one of the thingsthat you mentioned that is a key
to successful administrators isthe listening skill.
That seems to be maybe one ofthe best techniques of helping a
broach any problem, either thesmall, simple ones or the huge
monumental ones, is the abilityto listen carefully to what
(09:31):
people are saying.
I had a principal once whotaught me isolate the issue and
assign the ownership.
And sometimes I write that inthe top, isolate the issue.
What is it?
What is it?
who owns that particularproblem?
Sometimes it's a school problemand it's something we need to
deal with.
(09:51):
And when you figure out what theproblem is, you can.
Make some decisions aboutwhether this is a top down, a
very simple problem.
You can solve it or you need tobring in other people to take a
look at it, or you can pass iton to other people because it is
in their I'm a very firmbeliever that you hire strong
(10:13):
people get out of their way.
Let them handle problems thatare theirs.
You don't need to take onproblems that are best solved
right at the level of theproblem itself.
So that's again, part ofidentifying what you're dealing
with then either making acommand decision or moving it
(10:33):
out to the people who can helpyou deal
squadcaster-28d0_1_02- (10:36):
thinking through that.
So the reason this ever cameabout was people like yourself
educating me, and I'm like, whydidn't I know that long time
ago?
You know, I wish I would've
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (10:44):
Isn't that a great thing, the issue
and assign the
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-22- (10:47):
it's, it's great.
One of the things that jumps tomind is where I still think the
parent's completely in thewrong.
might be a board policy that I'menforcing and my hand's kind of
tied by that I can be human andI can try to say, yeah, I
understand where you're comingfrom, but what do you do when
problem solving and you gotpeople that you just know still
(11:11):
aren't getting it or can't get agrasp of it, of where you're
coming from.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22-20 (11:16):
Are you talking about your faculty
or people on your staff that
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-2 (11:19):
adults, because I always say,
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (11:21):
does.
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-22-20 (11:21):
the biggest issues in education is
adult issues.
if the parent comes in andyou've narrowed it down and
you've Isolated the issue.
Do you assign ownership back tothem or, is it really is your
issue, your problem solving Ican't change what I'm doing
here.
Do I assign that back?
And if I do, how do I do that?
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (11:40):
Yeah, Grace for sure.
ahead, Sarah.
Well, I.
do think that going back to thelistening and making the the
parent feel heard is animportant part of moving forward
in whatever is the issue.
If it's a student who's actingout in school and the parent has
(12:02):
come to the school to talk toyou about this doesn't see what
you see in the student, I thinkthere are a variety of ways of
helping get the parent.
To see what you are seeing orthe teacher is seeing the child
or helping you see what theparent is seeing.
(12:24):
I think that Mutualcommunication about getting to a
consensus on the problem is areal important step in resolving
the problem.
Helping both parties feel ajoint ownership toward moving
forward.
And really, there's an impliedstatement in what Sarah just
(12:46):
said, that sometimes you don'thave all the facts when you sit
initially with a parent.
And it's okay to say, I need totake a little time here and
bring in a few people.
We need to look at this andthen.
I'll get back in touch with you.
What would be a good time for usto meet?
Here's a business technique.
Could I call you tomorrow orwould next Tuesday be better?
(13:09):
Give them a couple ofopportunities here.
That's what salespeople do allthe time, and it's a one that I
learned when I worked in thatfield that you don't have to
solve things right away.
Sometimes you have to take thatyour time to make certain you
truly understand what theproblem is, and then get back to
the parent.
And the other advantage to thatis they're not usually quite so
(13:32):
riled up.
I.
next day or three days later,which allows you to arrive at
solutions a little more easily.
It's almost a, an approach of anintervention.
So they see what the school isseeing.
That's hard.
But you do have to put thepieces out there.
They, can't make a decision inthe best interest of their child
(13:55):
without information and withoutThe school's perspective on
that, helping them tounderstand, here's what the
school brings to this solution,and these are the pieces that
we're asking you to hold.
Some parents will step rightinto it and just go, I get it.
Mm-Hmm.
And others will continue tofight.
(14:15):
Be reluctant.
Yep.
Sometimes in dealing especiallywhere a student doesn't take
ownership for a decision thatthey've made.
And the parent wants to backthem up.
I've seen that with parents.
Who don't have a particularlystrong relationship with the
child, but this is one way theycould say to them, I love you,
so I'm gonna back you here.
Even if it's unreasonable, I'mgonna back you.
(14:38):
Then you sometimes have to sayto a parent.
If you don't work to understandwhat the school is seeing, your
child will repeat this again.
They will never understand thatthey played a role in this.
And again, that's, that has tobe said with grace.
But sometimes it has to be saidthat we're gonna be back here
(14:59):
again.
Yeah.
In another three months if, if.
If we don't help a child ownthis.
And then yeah.
The, I think the ownership,where does the ownership belong
and Right.
That's the isolation issue.
Often our work is to help thosewho don't believe that the child
should own it, to help themyeah.
Or their portion.
Or understand that and acceptit.
That's right.
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-22-2 (15:18):
Look at some of the stuff we talked
about is when you're confrontedwith a problem to issue is that
you're screening trying toreally determine what am I
dealing with?
What type of issue do I reassignthis to my committee, I also
found interesting a preassignedcommittee.
so you know that if this problemarises, I have a group that I'm
(15:43):
already calling on to help solvethis, problem.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (15:46):
Mark.
The important part of that isbefore you lose that point,
that's such a good point that asyou think about planning your
day, your week, your month, inthose planning times, you're
doing what's called predict andprevent.
I know at some point I may havea parent come in with a concern
about a piece of literature thatthey're reading.
(16:06):
So I can predict that ahead oftime before it happens, and I
can put together that subgroupthat you're talking about that
would just be available.
Obviously my school librarian,your department chair in
English, if you're at the middleschool, it might be someone from
the high school who comes downand helps, and maybe there's
people in the community.
(16:26):
just have a real interest inthis kind of thing that are
willing to be part.
And those kinds of resourcesthat you can establish ahead of
time allows you to be much morecomfortable with a situation
than if you were looking at andthinking, oh my gosh, I've gotta
solve this.
Right.
You've already given thought tohow you wanna work with it.
(16:48):
Yeah.
The, the pre-planning Yeah.
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-2 (16:49):
Predict and, and Prevent,
Track 1 (16:52):
I got two things here.
I got predict and prevent as onestrategy.
I also got the second one.
Isolate the issue.
squadcaster-28d0_1_0 (16:58):
seriously.
This is why this exists becauseas a school administrator, you
can be in an administrator for15 years.
And then all of a sudden you'regoing, man, I'm just struggling
from day to day.
And it's like somebody like yousays, Hey, if you predict and
prevent, life can be better.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22-2 (17:16):
That predict and prevent actually
comes from an administratoroutta Washington state.
the one who did the isolate theissue and assign the ownership.
That's an elementary principalnamed Perry Breman.
was principal of a smallLutheran school here in the
community where I live, and myson was in his school he called
(17:37):
One afternoon.
We were talking about a childissue.
But I said to him, well, I gottago.
I'm dealing with this issue.
And he said, what are youdealing with?
And I told him, and he said, oh,grab a piece of paper again.
Keep that paper right near you.
And he said isolate the issueand assign the ownership.
It will take you a long way inthis business.
Isn't that interesting to comeout of a a gentleman who was
(18:00):
working with elementarychildren, but over the years,
that's what he as a very helpfulway.
To work with situations that youmight not know how to tackle it.
The
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-22-202 (18:14):
I.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02- (18:15):
behavior one.
I will tell you, I used that onewith principals when I was
training them, them because theycan get so caught up in a story.
That comes in and their mindsare off of the issue tangential.
So drawing that.
Yeah, tangential Sarah said.
And you know, deflecting, wewatch people who do that quite
(18:36):
well.
If you know anything about themother kil dare, she'll lay that
egg in gravel along the side ofthe road, stays right with it
until you approach, and nowshe'll move and flap 10, 15, 20
feet away from that egg.
It's a universal way of dealingwith.
Problems that involve youroffspring, and you have to
(18:59):
remind yourself to keep your eyeon that egg.
Track 1 (19:02):
Well, mark, and the other questions.
I think we have two soundstrategies from these fine
ladies this morning,
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-22-2024 (19:08):
I think they summarized what I was
gonna summarize
Track 1 (19:12):
All right.
With that being said, I want saythank you for joining us today.
We look forward to talking tothese ladies again in the
future.
Thank you very much.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (19:19):
Thank you.
Hello.
Welcome to EducationalRelevance, a platform for
experienced educators to shareproven successful strategies to
educate today's students.
My name is Brian Wright.
I'm here at my co-host MarkMacbeth, and we have two
wonderful guests.
Today we're talking aboutleadership.
We got Sue Alexander and Dr.
Sarah Jerome.
(00:22):
Both of these ladies areexperienced principals,
superintendents.
Dr.
Jerome is the one that got me ineducation in first place.
Sue Alexander, I just refer heras partner.
She's been my partner forseveral years, We worked
together in school as well asworking alongside each other at
Concordia university.
Mark, why don't you go ahead andtake this over as school
(00:44):
administrators.
it seems like 90% of your job'sgonna be.
Problem solving.
As school administrators dealwith daily problems, what kind
of processes do you think thatthey should be going through
when somebody walks in the doorand boom, or it's something that
data is showing them.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (01:03):
Well, as Sarah and I have talked about
this, I.
Problems are just a part of thejob.
And if you don't like solvingproblems, there's probably a
better career choice thaneducation.
the fun of it is figuring outwhat you bring to the issues
that you're dealing with, thenhaving kind of a, an overview
(01:25):
that helps you look at problemsand decide, is this one I can
tackle myself very quickly, veryefficiently, or is it one where
I need to bring in.
People on my team.
It could be guidance counselors,it could be teachers, could be
support staff, could be membersof the school board.
Or is it something that needs abigger approach?
(01:48):
It might need to bring acommunity perspective in as well
as an internal perspectivewithin the district.
So that's kind of the frameworkthat we're looking at, and it's
important to think in thoseterms if you solve every problem
as if it were a simple problemthat you could solve, you will
irritate the dickens out of yourfaculty.
(02:09):
They, they want to be involvedif it affects them.
they want to know that you'relistening.
with that, I'm kind of gonnathrow this to Sarah for a second
to talk a little about some ofthe simple problems that as a
school leader, you should becomfortable in, making a command
(02:29):
decision, moving on withwhatever the next issue is
you're dealing with.
Hello.
I think before we even getstarted on the problem solving
one of the things that bothteachers and administrators need
to pay attention to is what arethe policies that exist in the
district?
(02:50):
That you can rely on and thatcan help you know what at least
previously has been establishedto give you guidance, and that
is often very helpful.
So some simple problems thatmight, come your way on a daily
basis.
Could be anything from theequipment that lines the
(03:11):
football field, and did it breakdown and can you get that fixed
right away because the game istonight?
Yes, you can do that, and youdon't have to have a committee
to help you do that.
or if you've got a snow day,here's a simple problem.
Too much snow.
You can't get the kids to schoolsafely or back home safely.
(03:32):
It seems like a simple problem,but it is disguised because it
affects everybody in the schoolcommunity, and if you treat it.
As an independent decisionmaking, may run into some bigger
problems, like 600 phone callson your telephone by the end of
(03:52):
the day.
True.
So many superintendents andprincipals have decided that on
something like closing a school,it is really very much in their
favor to.
Have a committee process so thatbefore they close the school,
call and hear what each of thecontiguous schools are doing.
(04:15):
So, that's a good example of howsomething starts out small, your
own little area, and she'sspeaking from a superintendent
perspective at that time.
Usually principals don't makethose decisions, but principals
can live in different parts ofthe district.
I.
And depending upon the size ofthe district, if you're a rural
administrator, it can be 6, 7, 8times the size of a city school
(04:38):
district.
Then bringing in those voices sothat you know what it looks like
in your community is extremelyimportant.
When I get a particularly angryparent about a closing decision,
I'd thank'em for calling andtell'em I would love to put you
on my call list at four in themorning because I don't have
anybody in your area.
Would you be willing to serve inthat fashion?
(05:00):
And you'd be amazed.
Some people do, and I just bringthem right along with me.
So those are, ways to thinkabout what are the.
Simple natures of the issue thatyou're being presented with.
And do I need to bring thisalong a little further?
of the ones that principals andsuperintendents deal with that
(05:22):
can be simple or complex,depending on the issue, is an
angry parent storms in and wantsyour immediate attention right
at that point.
And you can be involved insomething else.
you may have to decide, is thissomething that I have to bring
them in and I have to actuallybe involved in the diffusing
process, or is this somethingthat my secretary could get the
(05:48):
person a cup of coffee, let'emsit out in the office area for a
bit until they move from a 10down to a two or three, where
you can solve problems on a 10point scale?
You can't solve problems withpeople who are at a 10.
Can I interject to that?
Please do, When angry parentscome and we all have angry
parents sitting in our officefrom time to time, it is a
(06:11):
decision that you make as towhether you see that person
immediately or you wait a while.
And I respect Sue Alexander'sapproach to.
Letting an opportunity for cooldown period.
On the other hand, I havewitnessed and experienced very
personally the cool down periodhasn't happened after a few
(06:33):
minutes, and it seems to besteaming up.
so I do think that sometimesintervening early on and letting
the person feel.
Heard and addressed anotherapproach to it.
Yeah.
I think the other thing is, andthis for the secretary or
whoever might see that personfirst.
(06:55):
The question is, have you metwith the teacher first?
Is this a problem that you'vejumped several levels to have
solved?
you meet with the person whoactually is personally involved
in the interaction, sometimesthose are interventions I think
that can also help.
Track 1 (07:16):
how do you diffuse the situation, once the parent gets
to where they're gonna be, thatyou get the resolution you seek.
Okay.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22-202 (07:21):
If you need to take an angry parent
quickly.
One of the things that a schoolleader taught me years ago was
to keep a stack of kinds ofthings in your office with a
nice supply of pencils.
a person who's quite volatile,so they're up at the 6, 7, 8, 9
level on a 10 point scale youinvite'em in, you sit'em down,
(07:44):
you grab that pad of paper and apencil, and you listen.
Help me to understand.
What your concern is, and thenjust be quiet and let'em talk.
But you will be involved in thatdeescalating situation if you
pull that very angry parent in.
and it's okay to do, especiallyif you think they're gonna sit
(08:05):
out in the office and create aproblem for everybody else who
comes in.
that, that business of grabbingthat pad of paper being quiet.
Is a very helpful settling kindof thing, and it allows you,
number one to draw a circle onthat pad where I would put my
(08:26):
finger listening for the keypoints.
Mm-Hmm.
I was trained as a biologist, soI called behavior of angry
parents.
They are very prone to usingwhat we call kill deer behavior.
That is, they will bring you allaround that egg.
And your job is to try andfigure out what's the heart of
(08:47):
this?
And then deciding is it a parentproblem, is it a student
problem, is it a school problem?
And we need to take ownershipfor it.
So if that kind of helps you tothink about a way to deal with
that, where you are in theinformation gathering stage.
the diffusing stage at the sametime.
(09:09):
Sue, I think one of the thingsthat you mentioned that is a key
to successful administrators isthe listening skill.
That seems to be maybe one ofthe best techniques of helping a
broach any problem, either thesmall, simple ones or the huge
monumental ones, is the abilityto listen carefully to what
(09:31):
people are saying.
I had a principal once whotaught me isolate the issue and
assign the ownership.
And sometimes I write that inthe top, isolate the issue.
What is it?
What is it?
who owns that particularproblem?
Sometimes it's a school problemand it's something we need to
deal with.
(09:51):
And when you figure out what theproblem is, you can.
Make some decisions aboutwhether this is a top down, a
very simple problem.
You can solve it or you need tobring in other people to take a
look at it, or you can pass iton to other people because it is
in their I'm a very firmbeliever that you hire strong
(10:13):
people get out of their way.
Let them handle problems thatare theirs.
You don't need to take onproblems that are best solved
right at the level of theproblem itself.
So that's again, part ofidentifying what you're dealing
with then either making acommand decision or moving it
(10:33):
out to the people who can helpyou deal
squadcaster-28d0_1_02- (10:36):
thinking through that.
So the reason this ever cameabout was people like yourself
educating me, and I'm like, whydidn't I know that long time
ago?
You know, I wish I would've
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (10:44):
Isn't that a great thing, the issue
and assign the
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-22- (10:47):
it's, it's great.
One of the things that jumps tomind is where I still think the
parent's completely in thewrong.
might be a board policy that I'menforcing and my hand's kind of
tied by that I can be human andI can try to say, yeah, I
understand where you're comingfrom, but what do you do when
problem solving and you gotpeople that you just know still
(11:11):
aren't getting it or can't get agrasp of it, of where you're
coming from.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22-20 (11:16):
Are you talking about your faculty
or people on your staff that
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-2 (11:19):
adults, because I always say,
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (11:21):
does.
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-22-20 (11:21):
the biggest issues in education is
adult issues.
if the parent comes in andyou've narrowed it down and
you've Isolated the issue.
Do you assign ownership back tothem or, is it really is your
issue, your problem solving Ican't change what I'm doing
here.
Do I assign that back?
And if I do, how do I do that?
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (11:40):
Yeah, Grace for sure.
ahead, Sarah.
Well, I.
do think that going back to thelistening and making the the
parent feel heard is animportant part of moving forward
in whatever is the issue.
If it's a student who's actingout in school and the parent has
(12:02):
come to the school to talk toyou about this doesn't see what
you see in the student, I thinkthere are a variety of ways of
helping get the parent.
To see what you are seeing orthe teacher is seeing the child
or helping you see what theparent is seeing.
(12:24):
I think that Mutualcommunication about getting to a
consensus on the problem is areal important step in resolving
the problem.
Helping both parties feel ajoint ownership toward moving
forward.
And really, there's an impliedstatement in what Sarah just
(12:46):
said, that sometimes you don'thave all the facts when you sit
initially with a parent.
And it's okay to say, I need totake a little time here and
bring in a few people.
We need to look at this andthen.
I'll get back in touch with you.
What would be a good time for usto meet?
Here's a business technique.
Could I call you tomorrow orwould next Tuesday be better?
(13:09):
Give them a couple ofopportunities here.
That's what salespeople do allthe time, and it's a one that I
learned when I worked in thatfield that you don't have to
solve things right away.
Sometimes you have to take thatyour time to make certain you
truly understand what theproblem is, and then get back to
the parent.
And the other advantage to thatis they're not usually quite so
(13:32):
riled up.
I.
next day or three days later,which allows you to arrive at
solutions a little more easily.
It's almost a, an approach of anintervention.
So they see what the school isseeing.
That's hard.
But you do have to put thepieces out there.
They, can't make a decision inthe best interest of their child
(13:55):
without information and withoutThe school's perspective on
that, helping them tounderstand, here's what the
school brings to this solution,and these are the pieces that
we're asking you to hold.
Some parents will step rightinto it and just go, I get it.
Mm-Hmm.
And others will continue tofight.
(14:15):
Be reluctant.
Yep.
Sometimes in dealing especiallywhere a student doesn't take
ownership for a decision thatthey've made.
And the parent wants to backthem up.
I've seen that with parents.
Who don't have a particularlystrong relationship with the
child, but this is one way theycould say to them, I love you,
so I'm gonna back you here.
Even if it's unreasonable, I'mgonna back you.
(14:38):
Then you sometimes have to sayto a parent.
If you don't work to understandwhat the school is seeing, your
child will repeat this again.
They will never understand thatthey played a role in this.
And again, that's, that has tobe said with grace.
But sometimes it has to be saidthat we're gonna be back here
(14:59):
again.
Yeah.
In another three months if, if.
If we don't help a child ownthis.
And then yeah.
The, I think the ownership,where does the ownership belong
and Right.
That's the isolation issue.
Often our work is to help thosewho don't believe that the child
should own it, to help themyeah.
Or their portion.
Or understand that and acceptit.
That's right.
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-22-2 (15:18):
Look at some of the stuff we talked
about is when you're confrontedwith a problem to issue is that
you're screening trying toreally determine what am I
dealing with?
What type of issue do I reassignthis to my committee, I also
found interesting a preassignedcommittee.
so you know that if this problemarises, I have a group that I'm
(15:43):
already calling on to help solvethis, problem.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (15:46):
Mark.
The important part of that isbefore you lose that point,
that's such a good point that asyou think about planning your
day, your week, your month, inthose planning times, you're
doing what's called predict andprevent.
I know at some point I may havea parent come in with a concern
about a piece of literature thatthey're reading.
(16:06):
So I can predict that ahead oftime before it happens, and I
can put together that subgroupthat you're talking about that
would just be available.
Obviously my school librarian,your department chair in
English, if you're at the middleschool, it might be someone from
the high school who comes downand helps, and maybe there's
people in the community.
(16:26):
just have a real interest inthis kind of thing that are
willing to be part.
And those kinds of resourcesthat you can establish ahead of
time allows you to be much morecomfortable with a situation
than if you were looking at andthinking, oh my gosh, I've gotta
solve this.
Right.
You've already given thought tohow you wanna work with it.
(16:48):
Yeah.
The, the pre-planning Yeah.
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-2 (16:49):
Predict and, and Prevent,
Track 1 (16:52):
I got two things here.
I got predict and prevent as onestrategy.
I also got the second one.
Isolate the issue.
squadcaster-28d0_1_0 (16:58):
seriously.
This is why this exists becauseas a school administrator, you
can be in an administrator for15 years.
And then all of a sudden you'regoing, man, I'm just struggling
from day to day.
And it's like somebody like yousays, Hey, if you predict and
prevent, life can be better.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22-2 (17:16):
That predict and prevent actually
comes from an administratoroutta Washington state.
the one who did the isolate theissue and assign the ownership.
That's an elementary principalnamed Perry Breman.
was principal of a smallLutheran school here in the
community where I live, and myson was in his school he called
(17:37):
One afternoon.
We were talking about a childissue.
But I said to him, well, I gottago.
I'm dealing with this issue.
And he said, what are youdealing with?
And I told him, and he said, oh,grab a piece of paper again.
Keep that paper right near you.
And he said isolate the issueand assign the ownership.
It will take you a long way inthis business.
Isn't that interesting to comeout of a a gentleman who was
(18:00):
working with elementarychildren, but over the years,
that's what he as a very helpfulway.
To work with situations that youmight not know how to tackle it.
The
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-22-202 (18:14):
I.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02- (18:15):
behavior one.
I will tell you, I used that onewith principals when I was
training them, them because theycan get so caught up in a story.
That comes in and their mindsare off of the issue tangential.
So drawing that.
Yeah, tangential Sarah said.
And you know, deflecting, wewatch people who do that quite
(18:36):
well.
If you know anything about themother kil dare, she'll lay that
egg in gravel along the side ofthe road, stays right with it
until you approach, and nowshe'll move and flap 10, 15, 20
feet away from that egg.
It's a universal way of dealingwith.
Problems that involve youroffspring, and you have to
(18:59):
remind yourself to keep your eyeon that egg.
Track 1 (19:02):
Well, mark, and the other questions.
I think we have two soundstrategies from these fine
ladies this morning,
squadcaster-28d0_1_02-22-2024 (19:08):
I think they summarized what I was
gonna summarize
Track 1 (19:12):
All right.
With that being said, I want saythank you for joining us today.
We look forward to talking tothese ladies again in the
future.
Thank you very much.
squadcaster-a93g_1_02-22- (19:19):
Thank you.
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