July 21, 2024 • 17 mins
Part Two of the Turnaround 4C Plan
Bryan Wright and Mark McBeth discuss tools used to build a positive school climate in order for students to feel safe in their school which will increase student learning. Tools such as norms vs. rules, and being visible in the community.
For more information about the the topics discussed, contact us at
Bryan Wright: brwright44@gmail.com
Mark McBeth: mark@educationalrelevance.org
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Thanks for listening. Until next time, keep leading with heart—and stay educationally relevant.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_09363 (00:00):
Hello.
Welcome to educationalrelevance.
My name is Brian, right?
I'm currently an adjunctprofessor at university.
also 28 years as a high schoolor secondary school
administrator with me is MarkMacbeth, who's a esteemed
educator in his own right.
educator author.
today, we're going to continueour series on the turnaround for
(00:23):
C plan, and talk about schoolclimate.
Now we talk about the four Cplan being climate.
Culture curriculum andconnections.
We've discussed that and wediscussed each one of them last
week.
We discussed climate we want tomake sure we really bring it to
climate today.
So, last week we talked aboutour codes and without important
code was developing a climate inthe building and climate.
(00:46):
We talked about who we are.
So that being said, I want todiscuss my code right now.
code is Respect is earned, notjust given, but common courtesy
demanded of all.
And Mark,
mark_1_07-17-2024_0936 (00:56):
learning first, and then I, I build off
of that with rigor, relevance,relationships, builds results.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (01:03):
Thank you, Mark.
So once the leader knows his orher code, establishing,
strengthening, and maintaining apositive climate in the
organization is the first step.
So we're going to talk aboutdiscussion points today on
building that school climate andwhy it's so important that you
have that climate ready to go.
So the first thing we want totalk about, is get Need to feel
(01:26):
safe in their environment.
That's why we want to make surewe start with climate instead of
curriculum.
All right.
And the whole idea to make surethat learning can take place.
So students feel comfortable orsafe in that environment.
So they can learn that they'regoing straight to curriculum.
Mark, I want to make sure I askyou about your opinion and
thoughts on that, that idea andprocess.
And maybe you can talk to maybesome research based strategies
(01:49):
from that.
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (01:49):
Yeah, well, I think, 1 of the things
when we think about climate isthat, we don't, need to deal
with climate if things arealready.
comprehensive.
the school's, discipline recordsare in really good order.
There's very few disciplineissues, good attendance.
Those things mean the climate'sin place.
(02:10):
We're addressing climate whenkids are not feeling safe in the
school.
When the disciplines off thecharts, when kids don't feel
comfortable there, when teachersare blaming and administrators,
administrators, blaming teachersand et cetera.
Parents are not encouraged bywhat's going on.
Those are the things we talkedabout a little bit last week.
(02:31):
So when we're talking aboutclimate.
we're talking about theenvironment that exists inside
that school.
We're talking about the safety,the overall type of
relationships with kids.
when we think about researchers,Brian, they, all they doing is
validating what you and I havebeen doing for years.
I mean, seriously, you and Ihave been in and out of that
(02:53):
system.
I've used research to givevalidation to what I'm doing,
but in reality, you and I did itby gut feel.
We just say, Hey, what does kidsneed?
What's going on?
Hey, let's deal with this first.
Climate is first.
So we have to establish thingsthat deal with discipline.
(03:13):
attendance, daily procedures andthe environment of that school.
So, one of the things, I'll jumpinto, a school that had really
bad discipline that I went andit was lots of gang related type
stuff going on.
kids were coming to the officefor everything under the sun,
discipline, for the students washit and miss across the board of
(03:38):
how they would get theirconsequences and et cetera.
and one of the things I did wasI sat down with the, school
management team.
and they're a perfect team tobuild things around the
environment that's going on inthe school.
And we started talking aboutfrustrations with discipline and
et cetera.
And we created a tool calledthe, the discipline matrix.
(04:01):
And from there, what we did waswe established procedures and
methodologies for teachers inthe classroom.
How to deal with kids behaviorin the classroom, hallways, and
et cetera, and how they caninteract with those kids, and
then what those procedures werewhen they hit the office.
What happens when an assistantprincipal gets a kid?
(04:22):
it's the same thing you and Iwould do, because we look at the
matrix, and we say, oh, here'sthe plan, it says this, it says
this, and then, the studentalready knows the rules, that's
the way it is.
It helps establish climatebecause it helps create
consistency and expectations.
Now for me, we created the tool.
It worked great.
(04:43):
You've taken that tool and givenit the hundreds of school
administrators, with all thepeople going through your
classes as a professor and etcetera.
you used it in schools.
Talk a little bit about howyou've evolved that to actually
deal with climate.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_0936 (04:57):
thanks, Mark.
Well, two things we did.
And first of all, you'reabsolutely right.
When you presented that to me, afew years ago, I'm like, Hey,
this is pretty good.
Let's see how we can build uponit and hopefully work with this
thing within the same frameworkof the school they had.
So we started building, a fivestep plan, but five step plan.
Something we incorporate intothe matrix, and it was basically
(05:18):
a form of progressivediscipline, given students and
teachers five steps that theycan put in 40 wrote a office
referral form or something tous, disciplinary form.
So they, they have opportunityto work with that student.
So they can find ways toalongside that students, they
can find success before the,school administration could deal
(05:38):
with that student.
That's the first thing, but thenthe second thing, what we did,
we changed what we're talkingabout in the classroom.
And that's where it's so fun.
We discussed norms instead ofrules.
We always say rules are meant tobe broken.
Norms are meant to be followed.
And what that did was that weestablished ideas.
So teachers.
Along with the students can setup norms themselves under the
(05:58):
guise our, matrix.
So they can say, Hey, this iswhat we're doing in this
classroom.
This is how we're going to makeit work.
So that the whole idea and thewhole thing we're talking about
is student success And Mark, Iwant to make sure I bring it
back to you, throw it back toyou because, and we're ping
ponging here, I love this, buttalking about, why it's more
student success and studentfocus than it is any
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (06:20):
Yeah, well, it goes right back to our
codes, right?
you know, student learning firstand, and the student is our
product.
I mean, we're, we're likeanybody else on an assembly line
and a factory.
We're producing a product andour students are our product,
but it's really important that,kids feel that safety, that
(06:41):
security.
I used to work at an alternativeschool, in Quincy, Illinois,
and, the kids were there for,several different reasons But
one of the things that kidswould say was, you know, people
don't love me.
People don't care for me becauseI can do whatever I want.
I can go out and I can be outuntil two o'clock in the
(07:01):
morning.
Nobody cares, right?
They want rules.
Even the most challenging kidswant rules.
They want expectations.
They want to know what they'regoing to be held accountable
for.
and we talked about this,offline earlier, a little bit
about how.
a lot of our schools are stillstuck in this need for climate,
(07:23):
due to COVID, and, it's becauseof the situation that they were
thrown into to be homeschooledand et cetera.
And so now that environment'schanged.
Could you talk a little bitabout that?
Go ahead and add on to that.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (07:37):
Well, we always had a statement, with
schools I was in since the COVIDtime because I was an
administrator in four differentschools since that time.
We're talking about having 2024problems and 2020 18 solutions
for those 2024 problems.
When we came back off COVID, thething that a lot of schools, and
(07:57):
this is a mistake they made, andI'm just being honest with you.
They made the mistake of saying,hey, let's get right back into
curriculum because kids were notlearning.
And they felt that we had to hitcurriculum first.
They forgot that kids had tofeel safe in their own
environment.
So if they felt safe in theschool, then they could learn
what you were doing, but theyhad to feel safe because they
don't, they missed theirsocialization aspects about
(08:18):
school amongst other things,their friends, the whole idea
about working together, thewhole idea of getting used to
the teacher and trying to followthrough with those rules and
norms we're talking about.
These are the things that, uh,those students did not have.
And so when we get back inschools, we had to make sure we
established those again in thesuccessful schools since COVID
(08:39):
did exactly that.
They re established having thosenorms, having kids feel good
about who they are, establishingthat safety environment.
Then what they found out oncethey did that, Kids were willing
to learn what was being taughtand a lot of kids started
getting more and moresuccessful.
And as you saw it graduallysince COVID, more schools are
going right back tounderstanding that climate is so
(09:01):
important in their building ifthey want to achieve that next
step.
And make sure I also say this toyou, Mark, since we're talking
about this, we want to make surewe discuss, how climate has to
be just the
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (09:11):
Yeah.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (09:12):
And how we're talking about how
climate is going to be there.
And then we have to make sure weestablish culture.
You know, before we starttalking about that, let's talk
about schools with reputations,because you said something
earlier, and I want to bringback with what you're saying,
you mentioned, at risk schoolsand I was at a North Suburban
school.
out here, in this area I'm at,and I thought, we did the, just
for matrix there, we foundsuccess there as well.
(09:34):
again, so this program we'retalking about can be utilized
effectively Not just in at riskschools, but in any school that
feels that they want to improveon their climate.
What do you think
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (09:44):
Yeah, I totally agree.
I mean, sometimes, you know,where we really want to be in
school improvement is reallydoing analysis design, new
practice, monitoring the resultsand starting all over just this
figure a infinity model of whatwe're doing.
Sometimes we have to slow downjust a little.
(10:06):
To go back to the design phaseand say, Hey, some of the
climate issues, it was that,statement you made last time,
the five step rule, you stepinto the building, five steps,
you determine the, climate ofthat building pretty quick.
And then if you're doing that,or you're starting to get
complaints or kids aren't stillfeeling free or you're starting
(10:27):
to see discipline, escalatingfor some reason you go back and
you re you reanalyze that's thedifference between people like
you and I, Brian and some otherschool administrators is that
we're always analyzing what'sgoing on today.
And where does that put us at?
(10:49):
So when we're going into aturnaround school, it's pretty
obvious that there's issueswhere they wouldn't have called
you or I anyway, you know, overthe years.
But, the thing is, when we, whenwe go in, we're analyzing and
then we're saying, oh, okay, nowI have established climate.
Now I'm going to move theculture.
Now I'm going to move thecurriculum.
(11:11):
We're, we're analyzing data todetermine that.
And at any point we think we'reready.
you talk about building plans,Which always have timelines.
Sometimes you might say, well,in six months, I'm going to have
my climate established.
But in six months, the datasays, nope, I haven't made it
yet, Then you don't just move tocurriculum.
(11:33):
You still are going, eh, we gotto work a little bit more.
I can be working on culture, butI really still need to work on
my climate.
That's the difference, of whywe're constantly analyzing.
And what's really, important isthat analysis, of looking at the
picture of where we're at andwhere we're going.
(11:54):
that's when you determinewhether we need to be working in
climate or not, even if we're anestablished school.
And that's why the disciplinematrix is a great tool, because
it can be adjusted.
Like you said, you've adjustedit several times, based on what
was going on in that school.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (12:13):
you brought some good things up.
when we talk about climate, whatwe look for as well, we look for
short winds.
Immediate wins, short, shortwins.
So we can say, Hey,
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (12:22):
Yeah.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (12:23):
We get some really short, quick
wins, but the whole idea aboutshort, quick wins, which take
them because we think they'realways good to have short
immediate wins that people seethat's going on and they feel
supportive, but they see thewins happening, but the whole
idea is that those wins.
Are just a beginning.
We want to make sure that whenwe talk about climate, let's
(12:44):
talk about culture right now inthis short time, climate is
great.
The first year you'll get thosewins.
You'll get raised in testscores.
We've talked about that.
You will get these things.
Um, and in schools I've been in,we've seen the success and
what's going on in schools, butthen we got to talk about things
that then have become embedded.
Start working on culture.
And you did talk about the, thefive steps into your school
(13:06):
building.
What culture, what do you seethat become part of the culture?
And that's what we're justtalking about.
The climate is making sure youtake the test.
The culture is what they see andwhat do you do after that?
And that's what we're justtalking about last week.
So Mark, I agree with you.
Especially about that, aboutshort term wins, good things are
happening, but also, and that'stalked about what we're gonna do
when you talk about culture.
(13:26):
Next time we discuss ourturnaround foresee plan.
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (13:29):
Yeah.
So I think, you know, one of thethings when we're looking at
leadership, we're looking atstructure, in the climate, then
we're going to make a shift.
we're going to feel differences.
We're going to see those smallwins that you're talking about
and when we do and we starthearing people talking about
student learning when they startsaying, hey, I'm not just
(13:53):
trying.
We're going to do we want to dosomething different.
We really want to move.
That's when you feel the cultureand it's stated in several
different ways, but basicallywhat you're listening for is
when they start utilizing yourcode.
You've talked about that whereall of a sudden people are
saying your code and then youknow that you've shifted the
(14:15):
culture and when that cultureshifts, we start to work on, way
more extensive, student learningstructure, really putting
student learning out there.
We start focusing on ourprofessional development.
we start focusing oncomprehensive reform more.
and we're not, we're not justadapting and adopting
(14:38):
curriculum.
We're not quite there yet.
What we're doing is laying thefoundation for student learning.
Not just the environmentanymore.
We're really focusing now onstudent learning as a central
focus.
And that's that shift to cultureand it's essential.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (14:55):
I agree.
Also, we're going to talk abouta couple more things and
different tools we're going toincorporate next time we speak,
let's talk about a schoolimprovement plan, how a school
improvement plan while startingwith climate.
It becomes embedded into theculture of the building we're
discussing.
So we want to make sure we talkabout school improvement plans
and the goals each, schoolwishes to attain and the goals
each staff member wishes toattain within those, within the
(15:17):
school goals.
We also want to talk about howwe want to connect the
community.
And a quick synopsis forclimate.
For example, I used to always bego into the community before I
even took the job.
I wanted to go see whatcommunity was, how they felt
about the school, how they feltabout the reputation of the
school, what they thought wasright about the school, what
they felt was wrong about theschool, I always.
I took a position, I always wentinto the community to see what
(15:39):
the community felt about theprogram.
So as we're doing that, we cantalk about a parent five by five
contract.
So we can talk about how are wegoing to incorporate that and
how that works on building, notjust climate, but being embedded
into the culture as well.
So, I'm thinking along differentavenues that we're going to take
this thing, Mark, and take this,turnaround foresee plan
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (15:57):
Yeah,
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (15:58):
So, sir, are you
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (15:59):
yeah, definitely.
Yep.
one of the things I'll justreemphasize with what you just
said, Brian, is everything I'veever noticed about you.
That was impressive above andbeyond is your involvement in
the community And we're talkingabout urban big schools where
you're still heavily involved inthe community It's not just a
(16:22):
rural school because ruralschool principals often get
engaged in the community But youare engaged in them.
You're bringing parents in.
there was a program and I can'tremember exactly what it was
called, that you are engagingthese parents in the educational
system and all those things Ithink are worthy of a
conversation.
It might even be a whole nothersession by itself.
(16:43):
so there's so much more toclimate than what we have for 18
minutes.
but your shift to the cultureconversation is great, and I am
ready for culture next
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (16:53):
Well, I'll tell you what, let's do it
this way.
first of all, as always you canlook for our email addresses in
the comments section below.
can get in contact with eitherone of us.
We're more than happy to speakto you about climate at the same
time to turn around for a seaplan.
Mark, as always, man, thank youfor coming and joining today.
I think we had a greatconversation.
(17:14):
We look forward to speakingabout culture
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (17:16):
Thank you.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (17:17):
Take care, my friend.
Hello.
Welcome to educationalrelevance.
My name is Brian, right?
I'm currently an adjunctprofessor at university.
also 28 years as a high schoolor secondary school
administrator with me is MarkMacbeth, who's a esteemed
educator in his own right.
educator author.
today, we're going to continueour series on the turnaround for
(00:23):
C plan, and talk about schoolclimate.
Now we talk about the four Cplan being climate.
Culture curriculum andconnections.
We've discussed that and wediscussed each one of them last
week.
We discussed climate we want tomake sure we really bring it to
climate today.
So, last week we talked aboutour codes and without important
code was developing a climate inthe building and climate.
(00:46):
We talked about who we are.
So that being said, I want todiscuss my code right now.
code is Respect is earned, notjust given, but common courtesy
demanded of all.
And Mark,
mark_1_07-17-2024_0936 (00:56):
learning first, and then I, I build off
of that with rigor, relevance,relationships, builds results.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (01:03):
Thank you, Mark.
So once the leader knows his orher code, establishing,
strengthening, and maintaining apositive climate in the
organization is the first step.
So we're going to talk aboutdiscussion points today on
building that school climate andwhy it's so important that you
have that climate ready to go.
So the first thing we want totalk about, is get Need to feel
(01:26):
safe in their environment.
That's why we want to make surewe start with climate instead of
curriculum.
All right.
And the whole idea to make surethat learning can take place.
So students feel comfortable orsafe in that environment.
So they can learn that they'regoing straight to curriculum.
Mark, I want to make sure I askyou about your opinion and
thoughts on that, that idea andprocess.
And maybe you can talk to maybesome research based strategies
(01:49):
from that.
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (01:49):
Yeah, well, I think, 1 of the things
when we think about climate isthat, we don't, need to deal
with climate if things arealready.
comprehensive.
the school's, discipline recordsare in really good order.
There's very few disciplineissues, good attendance.
Those things mean the climate'sin place.
(02:10):
We're addressing climate whenkids are not feeling safe in the
school.
When the disciplines off thecharts, when kids don't feel
comfortable there, when teachersare blaming and administrators,
administrators, blaming teachersand et cetera.
Parents are not encouraged bywhat's going on.
Those are the things we talkedabout a little bit last week.
(02:31):
So when we're talking aboutclimate.
we're talking about theenvironment that exists inside
that school.
We're talking about the safety,the overall type of
relationships with kids.
when we think about researchers,Brian, they, all they doing is
validating what you and I havebeen doing for years.
I mean, seriously, you and Ihave been in and out of that
(02:53):
system.
I've used research to givevalidation to what I'm doing,
but in reality, you and I did itby gut feel.
We just say, Hey, what does kidsneed?
What's going on?
Hey, let's deal with this first.
Climate is first.
So we have to establish thingsthat deal with discipline.
(03:13):
attendance, daily procedures andthe environment of that school.
So, one of the things, I'll jumpinto, a school that had really
bad discipline that I went andit was lots of gang related type
stuff going on.
kids were coming to the officefor everything under the sun,
discipline, for the students washit and miss across the board of
(03:38):
how they would get theirconsequences and et cetera.
and one of the things I did wasI sat down with the, school
management team.
and they're a perfect team tobuild things around the
environment that's going on inthe school.
And we started talking aboutfrustrations with discipline and
et cetera.
And we created a tool calledthe, the discipline matrix.
(04:01):
And from there, what we did waswe established procedures and
methodologies for teachers inthe classroom.
How to deal with kids behaviorin the classroom, hallways, and
et cetera, and how they caninteract with those kids, and
then what those procedures werewhen they hit the office.
What happens when an assistantprincipal gets a kid?
(04:22):
it's the same thing you and Iwould do, because we look at the
matrix, and we say, oh, here'sthe plan, it says this, it says
this, and then, the studentalready knows the rules, that's
the way it is.
It helps establish climatebecause it helps create
consistency and expectations.
Now for me, we created the tool.
It worked great.
(04:43):
You've taken that tool and givenit the hundreds of school
administrators, with all thepeople going through your
classes as a professor and etcetera.
you used it in schools.
Talk a little bit about howyou've evolved that to actually
deal with climate.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_0936 (04:57):
thanks, Mark.
Well, two things we did.
And first of all, you'reabsolutely right.
When you presented that to me, afew years ago, I'm like, Hey,
this is pretty good.
Let's see how we can build uponit and hopefully work with this
thing within the same frameworkof the school they had.
So we started building, a fivestep plan, but five step plan.
Something we incorporate intothe matrix, and it was basically
(05:18):
a form of progressivediscipline, given students and
teachers five steps that theycan put in 40 wrote a office
referral form or something tous, disciplinary form.
So they, they have opportunityto work with that student.
So they can find ways toalongside that students, they
can find success before the,school administration could deal
(05:38):
with that student.
That's the first thing, but thenthe second thing, what we did,
we changed what we're talkingabout in the classroom.
And that's where it's so fun.
We discussed norms instead ofrules.
We always say rules are meant tobe broken.
Norms are meant to be followed.
And what that did was that weestablished ideas.
So teachers.
Along with the students can setup norms themselves under the
(05:58):
guise our, matrix.
So they can say, Hey, this iswhat we're doing in this
classroom.
This is how we're going to makeit work.
So that the whole idea and thewhole thing we're talking about
is student success And Mark, Iwant to make sure I bring it
back to you, throw it back toyou because, and we're ping
ponging here, I love this, buttalking about, why it's more
student success and studentfocus than it is any
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (06:20):
Yeah, well, it goes right back to our
codes, right?
you know, student learning firstand, and the student is our
product.
I mean, we're, we're likeanybody else on an assembly line
and a factory.
We're producing a product andour students are our product,
but it's really important that,kids feel that safety, that
(06:41):
security.
I used to work at an alternativeschool, in Quincy, Illinois,
and, the kids were there for,several different reasons But
one of the things that kidswould say was, you know, people
don't love me.
People don't care for me becauseI can do whatever I want.
I can go out and I can be outuntil two o'clock in the
(07:01):
morning.
Nobody cares, right?
They want rules.
Even the most challenging kidswant rules.
They want expectations.
They want to know what they'regoing to be held accountable
for.
and we talked about this,offline earlier, a little bit
about how.
a lot of our schools are stillstuck in this need for climate,
(07:23):
due to COVID, and, it's becauseof the situation that they were
thrown into to be homeschooledand et cetera.
And so now that environment'schanged.
Could you talk a little bitabout that?
Go ahead and add on to that.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (07:37):
Well, we always had a statement, with
schools I was in since the COVIDtime because I was an
administrator in four differentschools since that time.
We're talking about having 2024problems and 2020 18 solutions
for those 2024 problems.
When we came back off COVID, thething that a lot of schools, and
(07:57):
this is a mistake they made, andI'm just being honest with you.
They made the mistake of saying,hey, let's get right back into
curriculum because kids were notlearning.
And they felt that we had to hitcurriculum first.
They forgot that kids had tofeel safe in their own
environment.
So if they felt safe in theschool, then they could learn
what you were doing, but theyhad to feel safe because they
don't, they missed theirsocialization aspects about
(08:18):
school amongst other things,their friends, the whole idea
about working together, thewhole idea of getting used to
the teacher and trying to followthrough with those rules and
norms we're talking about.
These are the things that, uh,those students did not have.
And so when we get back inschools, we had to make sure we
established those again in thesuccessful schools since COVID
(08:39):
did exactly that.
They re established having thosenorms, having kids feel good
about who they are, establishingthat safety environment.
Then what they found out oncethey did that, Kids were willing
to learn what was being taughtand a lot of kids started
getting more and moresuccessful.
And as you saw it graduallysince COVID, more schools are
going right back tounderstanding that climate is so
(09:01):
important in their building ifthey want to achieve that next
step.
And make sure I also say this toyou, Mark, since we're talking
about this, we want to make surewe discuss, how climate has to
be just the
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (09:11):
Yeah.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (09:12):
And how we're talking about how
climate is going to be there.
And then we have to make sure weestablish culture.
You know, before we starttalking about that, let's talk
about schools with reputations,because you said something
earlier, and I want to bringback with what you're saying,
you mentioned, at risk schoolsand I was at a North Suburban
school.
out here, in this area I'm at,and I thought, we did the, just
for matrix there, we foundsuccess there as well.
(09:34):
again, so this program we'retalking about can be utilized
effectively Not just in at riskschools, but in any school that
feels that they want to improveon their climate.
What do you think
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (09:44):
Yeah, I totally agree.
I mean, sometimes, you know,where we really want to be in
school improvement is reallydoing analysis design, new
practice, monitoring the resultsand starting all over just this
figure a infinity model of whatwe're doing.
Sometimes we have to slow downjust a little.
(10:06):
To go back to the design phaseand say, Hey, some of the
climate issues, it was that,statement you made last time,
the five step rule, you stepinto the building, five steps,
you determine the, climate ofthat building pretty quick.
And then if you're doing that,or you're starting to get
complaints or kids aren't stillfeeling free or you're starting
(10:27):
to see discipline, escalatingfor some reason you go back and
you re you reanalyze that's thedifference between people like
you and I, Brian and some otherschool administrators is that
we're always analyzing what'sgoing on today.
And where does that put us at?
(10:49):
So when we're going into aturnaround school, it's pretty
obvious that there's issueswhere they wouldn't have called
you or I anyway, you know, overthe years.
But, the thing is, when we, whenwe go in, we're analyzing and
then we're saying, oh, okay, nowI have established climate.
Now I'm going to move theculture.
Now I'm going to move thecurriculum.
(11:11):
We're, we're analyzing data todetermine that.
And at any point we think we'reready.
you talk about building plans,Which always have timelines.
Sometimes you might say, well,in six months, I'm going to have
my climate established.
But in six months, the datasays, nope, I haven't made it
yet, Then you don't just move tocurriculum.
(11:33):
You still are going, eh, we gotto work a little bit more.
I can be working on culture, butI really still need to work on
my climate.
That's the difference, of whywe're constantly analyzing.
And what's really, important isthat analysis, of looking at the
picture of where we're at andwhere we're going.
(11:54):
that's when you determinewhether we need to be working in
climate or not, even if we're anestablished school.
And that's why the disciplinematrix is a great tool, because
it can be adjusted.
Like you said, you've adjustedit several times, based on what
was going on in that school.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (12:13):
you brought some good things up.
when we talk about climate, whatwe look for as well, we look for
short winds.
Immediate wins, short, shortwins.
So we can say, Hey,
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (12:22):
Yeah.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (12:23):
We get some really short, quick
wins, but the whole idea aboutshort, quick wins, which take
them because we think they'realways good to have short
immediate wins that people seethat's going on and they feel
supportive, but they see thewins happening, but the whole
idea is that those wins.
Are just a beginning.
We want to make sure that whenwe talk about climate, let's
(12:44):
talk about culture right now inthis short time, climate is
great.
The first year you'll get thosewins.
You'll get raised in testscores.
We've talked about that.
You will get these things.
Um, and in schools I've been in,we've seen the success and
what's going on in schools, butthen we got to talk about things
that then have become embedded.
Start working on culture.
And you did talk about the, thefive steps into your school
(13:06):
building.
What culture, what do you seethat become part of the culture?
And that's what we're justtalking about.
The climate is making sure youtake the test.
The culture is what they see andwhat do you do after that?
And that's what we're justtalking about last week.
So Mark, I agree with you.
Especially about that, aboutshort term wins, good things are
happening, but also, and that'stalked about what we're gonna do
when you talk about culture.
(13:26):
Next time we discuss ourturnaround foresee plan.
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (13:29):
Yeah.
So I think, you know, one of thethings when we're looking at
leadership, we're looking atstructure, in the climate, then
we're going to make a shift.
we're going to feel differences.
We're going to see those smallwins that you're talking about
and when we do and we starthearing people talking about
student learning when they startsaying, hey, I'm not just
(13:53):
trying.
We're going to do we want to dosomething different.
We really want to move.
That's when you feel the cultureand it's stated in several
different ways, but basicallywhat you're listening for is
when they start utilizing yourcode.
You've talked about that whereall of a sudden people are
saying your code and then youknow that you've shifted the
(14:15):
culture and when that cultureshifts, we start to work on, way
more extensive, student learningstructure, really putting
student learning out there.
We start focusing on ourprofessional development.
we start focusing oncomprehensive reform more.
and we're not, we're not justadapting and adopting
(14:38):
curriculum.
We're not quite there yet.
What we're doing is laying thefoundation for student learning.
Not just the environmentanymore.
We're really focusing now onstudent learning as a central
focus.
And that's that shift to cultureand it's essential.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (14:55):
I agree.
Also, we're going to talk abouta couple more things and
different tools we're going toincorporate next time we speak,
let's talk about a schoolimprovement plan, how a school
improvement plan while startingwith climate.
It becomes embedded into theculture of the building we're
discussing.
So we want to make sure we talkabout school improvement plans
and the goals each, schoolwishes to attain and the goals
each staff member wishes toattain within those, within the
(15:17):
school goals.
We also want to talk about howwe want to connect the
community.
And a quick synopsis forclimate.
For example, I used to always bego into the community before I
even took the job.
I wanted to go see whatcommunity was, how they felt
about the school, how they feltabout the reputation of the
school, what they thought wasright about the school, what
they felt was wrong about theschool, I always.
I took a position, I always wentinto the community to see what
(15:39):
the community felt about theprogram.
So as we're doing that, we cantalk about a parent five by five
contract.
So we can talk about how are wegoing to incorporate that and
how that works on building, notjust climate, but being embedded
into the culture as well.
So, I'm thinking along differentavenues that we're going to take
this thing, Mark, and take this,turnaround foresee plan
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (15:57):
Yeah,
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (15:58):
So, sir, are you
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (15:59):
yeah, definitely.
Yep.
one of the things I'll justreemphasize with what you just
said, Brian, is everything I'veever noticed about you.
That was impressive above andbeyond is your involvement in
the community And we're talkingabout urban big schools where
you're still heavily involved inthe community It's not just a
(16:22):
rural school because ruralschool principals often get
engaged in the community But youare engaged in them.
You're bringing parents in.
there was a program and I can'tremember exactly what it was
called, that you are engagingthese parents in the educational
system and all those things Ithink are worthy of a
conversation.
It might even be a whole nothersession by itself.
(16:43):
so there's so much more toclimate than what we have for 18
minutes.
but your shift to the cultureconversation is great, and I am
ready for culture next
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (16:53):
Well, I'll tell you what, let's do it
this way.
first of all, as always you canlook for our email addresses in
the comments section below.
can get in contact with eitherone of us.
We're more than happy to speakto you about climate at the same
time to turn around for a seaplan.
Mark, as always, man, thank youfor coming and joining today.
I think we had a greatconversation.
(17:14):
We look forward to speakingabout culture
mark_1_07-17-2024_093603 (17:16):
Thank you.
bryan_1_07-17-2024_093631 (17:17):
Take care, my friend.
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