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August 3, 2024 25 mins

Welcome to Educational Relevance, a platform for experienced educators to share proven successful strategies to educate today’s students. 

Bryan Wright, who has over 25 years experience as a lead school administrator, along with Mark McBeth, who also has experience as a school administrator, will continue sharing the Turnaround 4C Plan to improve any school. The 4Cs stands for Climate, Culture, Curriculum, and Connections. 


Climate is who we are. Culture is what we do. Culture is when climate's expectations become norms. It’s imperative to build a strong school climate and culture to make improvements long lasting. 


Every school needs to have four goals to attain as well as be able to measure in order to embed the culture. The four goals are first, to enhance the culture, second, set up a viable curriculum, next, student engagement, and finally build leadership density, 



For more information about the the topics discussed, contact us at
Bryan Wright: brwright44@gmail.com
Mark McBeth: mark@educationalrelevance.org

If you found value in today’s episode, share it with a colleague, subscribe, and leave us a review. It helps us keep bringing you conversations that matter.

Thanks for listening. Until next time, keep leading with heart—and stay educationally relevant.

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
bryan_1_07-24-2024_0907 (00:00):
Welcome to Educational Relevance.

(00:01):
This is a platform forexperienced educators to share
proven successful educationalstrategies.
We share these things with othereducators, be it administration,
be it teachers, be it districtleaders, just to make sure we
give you some ideas and thingsthat we think can help you
become successful at the nextlevel.
My name is Bryan Wright and Ihave been a lead administrator

(00:22):
for 25 plus years in education.
I'm currently working as aprofessor at Concordia
University.
My partner in crime here is MarkMcBeth who has served as a
district administrator, but alsoas an author in education and as
a true educational leader.
How are you

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24- (00:39):
Doing well, doing well.

bryan_1_07-24-2024_0 (00:40):
Excellent.
Now we are going to continuethis series, Mark, on the
Turnaround 4 C plan and let'sreview those four C's again.
We talk about climate, culture,curriculum, and connections.
Now, last we spoke aboutclimate, building a positive
school climate, and why that wasso important in the changing of
a school.

(01:00):
Today we're going to talk aboutculture.
Now, mind you, climate is who weare.
Culture is what we do.
Culture is when climate'sexpectations become norms.
Mark, I'm going to turn thisover to you, I think you may
want to say a couple thingsabout culture.
I really want to incorporate thefour goals we're going to
discuss.
But you said something aboutcode earlier, and I want to make
sure you review your code, andtalk about that a little bit

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24- (01:20):
more.
Yeah.
Thanks, Bryan.
So culture is the essentialingredient to move a school from
being an underperforming school,why they need turnaround, to
becoming the direction tobecoming enhanced and better at

(01:41):
what they're doing.
It's essential movement betweenthere.
If culture is overlooked and wejump ahead, like curriculum we
talked about before, if you jumpahead you will have a ongoing
failure.
So culture is essential.
We're going to talk about thattoday.
Code.
Bryan, you've, drilled code hometo a thousand school

(02:02):
administrators out there throughyour lessons at the university
and otherwise, but my code isstudent learning first, and then
I go rigor, relevance,relationships, generates
results, and we talk about thosethings.
In culture, it becomes live, Sowe talk about those things
throughout climate.
We talk about our codes and wetry to embed them in their,

(02:27):
their psychic.
But this is where we start tolive it.
So we start giving themstrategies to be able to use it.
How to develop their ownthinking around that.
So student learning is whatthey're having the conversations
around.
It's not just a word.
or statement student learningfirst.
Okay, whatever.

(02:49):
Now it's like, oh, we got tohave a conversation about
student learning first.
What's that mean?
Rigor?
What's that mean?
Relevance?
What does that mean?
Relationships?
What's results?
What are we talking about whenwe say results?
So that's the essential part ofwhy we have to have code from
climate.
And now we.
Bring it to life in culture.

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (03:07):
Okay.
Thank you, Mark Every schoolneeds to have goal attainment.
We understand that.
To to reach your success and youwant to make sure it's
measurable.
Four basic goals that we haveused in the past the first one
we talked about enhancingculture to make sure I didn't
say changing culture.
We talked about enhancingculture.
Every school that we go into,it'll make some changes.
We talk about turnaroundschools.

(03:28):
They already have a

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24- (03:29):
Yeah.

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (03:29):
So they already have one, and they
may be doing some things aswell.
So we want to make sure weenhance not talking about a
total change.
Set up a viable curriculum.
No matter, we can come in therefor climate, but the first year,
but we still got to have acurriculum.
We still got kids to learn.
So we got to talk about a viablecurriculum they got to have to
make sure those things aretaking place.
The third thing, teacher-student engagement and getting
administrators involved withteachers, getting teachers

(03:51):
involved with students, gettingadministrators involved with
students, having thatengagement.
So there's that conversation.
So kids feel comfortable aboutwhat and how they're learning.
The last one we're going to talkabout is leadership density.
And I think that's a key thatsome people don't discuss.
Leadership density is quitesimply building student,
teacher, and community leadersto help you reach the goals you

(04:12):
want to attain in your school.
Mark, let's talk about enhancingculture in a way where we're not
talking about embedding it atthat time, but enhancing it.
So it becomes embedded and maybeyou may have a story

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24- (04:22):
Yeah.
So enhancing culture.
Now, I always say enhance andchange practices because the
practices that we're doinginside of a culture defines what
we're doing every day.
So when we talk about enhancingculture, we're looking at
leadership practices.
We're looking at how teachersare teaching in the classroom,

(04:44):
what they're teaching in theclassroom, how they're looking
at whether students are learningor not.
So one of the things I reallylove doing is what I call laser
conversations.
What I do is I go through and Ido walk through through the
school and I'm going in and outof classrooms and I have a

(05:05):
protocol, how we do that.
I'm looking always are, what arestudents learning in the
classroom?
Are they learning?
And then what I do is I go backand I have laser conversations
with teachers betweenclassrooms.
So in, middle schools and highschools, we often have this
passing time.
And, and during elementary, it'swhen the teacher has passing

(05:27):
time, when they got kids goingto specialties, or their prep
time or whatever.
Those are the times we snag itthere.
But what I do is during climateis I just stand there and I
talked and I say hi to kids andsay, hey, welcome to this
classroom, and and we talk aboutthe teacher's life.
I'm having those conversationsof whether students were

(05:49):
learning inside their classroomand I'll ask simple questions.
I'll just say, I was in yourclass and I noticed that you had
all those kids in pods of four,and they seem like they were
having conversations deeplyabout the Declaration of
Independence.
They were just conversing aboutit.

(06:11):
Where was your thoughts goingwhen you put that together?
So now it's a value statement.
You know, it's like I've alreadyidentified good things.
They're having conversations,and I'm now generating
conversations among teachers.
So laser conversations start tohave conversations about rigor,
relevance, relationships, whatthey're doing in there.

(06:34):
I can ask a simple questionabout the results.
How did that go?
I didn't get to stick around thewhole time.
How did that end up?
How do you know they learned it?
Those are the kinds ofconversations you can have
during those laserconversations.
I love them.
They're only like, two minuteslong, but they're great
conversations.

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (06:52):
Well, I use laser conversations all
the time.
So I agree with that.
But a wise man once told me,make sure you always start
lasers conversations withsomething positive.
Making sure we talk about,something positive first, so
teacher, won't be afraid to seeyou walk down the hallway, start
running back into the rooms andtrying to hide

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24-2024 (07:11):
I think that was me.

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (07:12):
mind having you.
And that's exactly the case.
So we want to make sure we keepthem positive at first and then
talk about, some things, howthey motivate them, but also let
them explain their teachingprocess so we can see how we can
assist them in that regard.
I think that's a great way.
That's a great conversationabout

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07 (07:27):
enhancing culture.
Now, another thing with that,Bryan, is when I see that and I
have that conversation with theteacher, guess what I get to
talk about when I walked to thenext teacher, what I saw down
the hall.
That was so cool.
What was the positive thingsthat's happening inside of our
school that starts to shift theculture?

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (07:48):
Oh, then you start sharing ideas,
sharing thought processes, andpeople feel comfortable.
I'm saying you're not doinganything wrong.
We're just talking about somethings that you may want to try.
And Hey, we saw this beingsuccessful in one place.
You may want to use this inanother, but again, that's
exactly what we're talkingabout.
So little by little you'reenhancing the culture by making
sure people feel good about whatthey're doing and learning.

(08:10):
It also ends up turning out tobe getting some degree of
student success, which is whatwe're looking for.
Okay, the second we're going totalk about is viable curriculum.
Now, this is where we'rediscussing data teams.
But also I'm talking aboutleadership, positive leadership,
communities, these sorts ofthings.
We want to make sure the kidsare still learning, reading,
writing, math, all therequirements they need to have

(08:33):
and reaching these and standardsthat we want to see improvement
in, but not at the same time,forcing this upon teachers and
students saying, you better dothis.
That's why I want to make sureit's viable, so we could help
with some adjustments that firstyear.
Mark.
Is there another piece that youmade me talk about how that
turns into culture?

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24- (08:51):
Yeah, so I think Tiered instructions
is a really deep in conversationWe could have way more but
basically what I'm trying to dowith teachers is Identify what
we want to teach to every kidand so they really understand
the system standards thatthey're trying to teach.
What are they really trying toaccomplish?

(09:14):
And I want to have a bigger,deeper conversation to get them
start thinking about.
That's kind of that rigor andit's the relevance relation
conversations with the teachersand trying to create leadership
groups.
You know, we talked about in thelast one, Bryan, we talked about
climate and I talked aboutmanagement teams were essential

(09:34):
in changing climate.
When we shift into the Culture.
I like to use teacher leadergroups.
I like to try to get thecurriculum teams on board PLC
teams that might already existin the school.
I like to try to enhance themhaving this deeper conversation.
What do all students need tolearn?
That's, the tier oneinstruction.

(09:56):
What happens if a kid doesn'tlearn that?
What are we going to do?
What, what can we do to enhancethat to ensure that kids learn?
That's the results base of thehours that we're talking about
in my code, right?
Hey, we look at the results.
Hey, they're not getting it.
What are we going to do?
And how are we going to enhancethat?

(10:17):
And then, hey, there's going tobe some kids that really are
struggling.
how do we do that?
And sometimes in a turnaroundschool, it's totally shifted.
I mean, we're going 80 percentof our kids should be getting it
through general instruction.
Yeah.
15 percent give or take shouldbe that tier two instruction and
5 percent needs that intensivetier three support.

(10:40):
Sometimes we see that inverted.
We're going, oh my 80 percent ofour kids qualify for tier three
and two.
That's where we're having adeeper conversation about the
culture, the curriculum andthose type of things.
And that data gives us that.
And that kind of goes back toyour conversations about how we
have conversations about data.
So that's tier three instructionand it really gives the shape,

(11:06):
literally the shape to havedeeper conversations with.
adults about how we're going togenerate and move kids forward.
By the way, my model also has atiered instruction support for
teachers as we're shiftingculture and administrators, as
we haven't talked a lot aboutassistant principals and other

(11:27):
leaders positions inside thebuilding, but how we shift that
too, to make sure that we havethe intensive support they need
as well.

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (11:34):
Also we're talking about, viable
curriculum, Mark.
This comes where we can talkabout standards based learning.
Or standards based grading asyou see fit as far as the school
you're in.
We want kids to meet standardsof excellence.
We can change the climate and wecan raise test scores 10 to 15%,
10, 20 percent just by changingclimate alone.
That way we can still have.
Learning taking place, but atthe same time not trying to

(11:56):
force some certain particularsort of learning down somebody's
throat where they're saying, Ifeel uncomfortable with this.
That's why we also got to makesure, Mark, we always have those
small wins we got toincorporate.
And some of those small wins wedo, especially when it comes to
teachers and how they feel abouttheir school and what's going
on.
The third goal is going to bestudent engagement.
And this is where it becomes funto do.

(12:17):
And we're talking aboutengagement in the classroom,
between teachers and students,engagements in the classroom
between administrators andteachers.
Also about engagement andsometimes we miss between
administrator and student.
I'll give you an example ofthat.
I went to a classroom, went to astudent.
I'm watching the class and Iasked the student, what are you
learning?

(12:37):
And the student says I reallydon't know.
I'm like, okay.
I said, what grade are yougetting in this class?
He says a B.
was like how do you, how are yougetting a B you're not learning
anything.
So that's, that now that'squestioning what's going on.
So that leads me to have aconversation now with the
teacher saying, Hey, what'sgoing on?
How's it going?
How are you feeling?
Tell me about what you'reteaching and how's, how are you

(12:59):
communicating it with the,students?
I wouldn't have done that, if itwasn't for that engagement piece
between the administrator andthe student and me asking, and
the student feeling comfortableenough to say, Hey, this is what
I'm doing.
This is why I'm not learning.
So Mark, I'm sure you havesomething to say about that
engagement piece though, becausethat's, you know, one of two
things as well.

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24 (13:15):
Couple things with that.
We had an outstanding couplesessions with Jerry Valentine.
People should go back and listento that one about when we're
talking about studentengagement.
One, it's a way of measuringstudent engagement in the
school, but it's also there wasa lot of conversation in there
about engagement and how thathigher order thinking of

(13:37):
students generates results andlearning inside those standards.
I think you hit the nail on thehead and trying to engage
teachers in those dialogues.
I think when, when you walk intothe classrooms, you're always
asking students, what are youlearning today?
Kids should always know whatthey're learning.

(13:58):
They should know what standardthey're addressing, why they're
doing what they're doing unlessthey've been put into a
disequilibrium type ofinstruction, which is cool too.
I'm going to, you're going to dosomething and you don't know why
you're doing it, but you'regoing to tell me at the end why
you did it.
That's always cool too.
That's that's a higher order ofthinking, but but that's part of
where we don't make judgmentsabout the teacher.

(14:20):
We have the conversation withthe teacher later and we
discover that.
But the.
Interactions I wanted to share astory I had, a 1st year teacher.
He was 1 of those continuing edteachers that actually had a
different career and came in andteaching that when he was 35
years old we were talking aboutengaging kids in the classroom

(14:43):
and he was struggling with it.
He knew his content inside andout, but he just wasn't engaging
kids.
He couldn't get them excited.
Here's a little simple strategythat he ended up incorporating
through through my support.
He would listen to kids and haveconversations with kids all
week, and then on Fridays, hewould give them progress
assessments to see if they'relearning what he was teaching

(15:06):
during the week.
So he's checking for results.
So he was teaching rigor duringthe week, that was his goal.
He was really good at rigor.
He was trying to make aconnection to relevance and
relationships through thislittle strategy.
He, he would put in the testquestions directly related, a
math test directly related withthe kids.

(15:27):
So he would say, Bryan.
Is on the B team of the soccerteam, but he has a higher
percentage of goals than Mark,who is on the a team soccer
team, who's the better player.
And he would give thestatistical numbers and then

(15:48):
they would have to actuallydetermine through using the
formulas that they learned theweek and figure it out.
Kids love coming to class to seethat Mark and Bryan made the
test.
And then Maria and Susanna andetc were on the test and it was
real life relevant typequestions associated with math.

(16:12):
Kids would arrive early to classready to go wanting to take an
assessment.
It was so exciting.
It was a really cool littlestrategy and with him doing
that, he started to shift theculture inside the school too,
because it became not only kidswere excited about the
curriculum and instruction, butother teachers started seeing

(16:32):
that strategy and why kids wereso excited that they couldn't
wait for math class that day.
it was fun.

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (16:40):
I want to make sure I talk about
engagement.
You know, we're talking aboutlearning objectives I'm a real
big person about postinglearning objectives in the
school students SWABAT will beable to so and so and so and so
they can do that stuff.
So I think that's always a goodthing.
Having learning objectivesposted, I always think it's a
good thing.
And that's something where it'snot, trying to change

(17:00):
curriculum, just saying, Hey,getting kids to feel comfortable
with what they're learning.
So they know what they'relearning and they can say, Hey,
so you see a learning objective,say, Hey, what'd you learn about
that?
What'd you learn about todayabout in, history, about civil
war, and at certain parts of thecivil war and they can say, Oh,
we're learning this about it.
And you can say, Hey, that'scool.
All right.
The best thing I always like tosee when I go into a classroom,
Mark, and I ask a student whatyou're learning and the kid tell

(17:21):
him what he's learning.
So what you getting in thegrade?
He says, I'm only getting like aD or C or a D.
like, well, you're pretty smart.
How come you can learn all thisstuff?
And he says, Hey, I'm learningsomething in the classroom.
That's just on me.
And that's something where wecan say, hey, that's a positive
thing and how we can

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24-2 (17:36):
make that

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (17:36):
work.
work.

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24-202 (17:37):
So I was,

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (17:38):
the

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24-2024 (17:38):
I was at a school district talking
about shifting and enhancingculture.
They already had that they hadto post their standards.
What they're going to teach thatday, but they posted them
outside the door.
So when kids came in, they wouldsee them.
But when you would go into theclassroom and ask them what

(17:59):
standard they were learning thatday, they had no clue.
They weren't looking at him.
And so the, enhancement waslet's post them inside the room
so as you're teaching, you canalways reference it.
Oh, right here.
Here's the standard we'readdressing today.
You've been in classrooms.
It's kind of cool where you walkin and you say, Hey, what are
you learning today?

(18:19):
And they go, Oh, it's rightthere, Mr.
Wright, we're learning aboutthis, this and this because they
know where the standard is.
And so those little enhancementssometimes really can shift the
culture by just thinking aboutthe practices that we do.

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (18:35):
And again, now we're talking about
just getting the kids engaged towhat they're learning actually
having them having to have a sayso When you talk about learning
objectives.
You know, I'm a big AVID guy as

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24- (18:44):
Yeah,

bryan_1_07-24-2024_090734 (18:45):
that and so we've always talked about
how we do use Cornell Notes tobring back and how we gonna
start reviewing the work at theend of the day and of course
that goes all the way back toOh, man.
Some of the things we'rediscussing, we're talking about
you want to do that at thebeginning of class, exit
tickets, this sort of thing,entry level quick notes So all
that works about getting astudent teacher engagement.

(19:06):
The last thing we're talkingabout, of course, is going to be
leadership density.
This is one of the fun things wetalk about because the whole
idea is when we talk aboutembedding cultures, building up
more leaders in your building,building up teacher leaders,
building up student leaders,building up your assistant
principals, make sure they feelleadership capacity.
So one day you may want to havethem become principals in their
own accord.

(19:26):
Building up leadership, whereit's not just your vision or
it's not your code, it becomesour vision.
I'm sure you can talk about oneof those things that you've done
and how you helped principals,make sure we had that building
up that density.
And I can tell you a story after

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24- (19:38):
yeah.
So this is essential in anyturnaround.
You have to build leadershipcapacity inside of a district,
inside of a school that cancarry on whether you're there or
not.
So for our history our expertiseis turning around

(19:59):
underperforming schools.
Once we got it turned and we gotit on the right path, we want
somebody else to take over tocontinue to enhance and develop
into a system of practice.
Just the daily routines.
It's great.
It's a, it's a blue ribbonschool.
We want it to move to thatdirection.

(20:20):
I always say, plan for your owndemise.
The only way you can plan foryour own demise as a turnaround
principal is enhancing studentteacher leaders enhancing other
formal position leaders, likeassistant principals and you
have to engage them in yourthinking all the time.
You have to engage them in theculture.

(20:41):
Once you engage them in theculture, the values that you
have as a, principal studentlearning first.
Once you, get them having thosein depth conversations, you
start getting teacher leaders tohave in depth conversations in
an avenue where they're thinkingrigor, relevance, relationships
and results, and they're havingthose conversations on their
own, you've built some of thatcapacity.

(21:03):
But if you don't do that thatschool will fail in the long
run.
You can, enhance whatever youwant.
If you leave, and it's relianton whoever is that principal,
it's just going to fail again.
So we have to build thatcapacity.
You do it really well with theentire community.
You engage community way morethan I ever did as an

(21:26):
administrator.
So you've got the whole culturewrapping around the school, in
the school but you're buildingthat capacity for it to exist.
Funny you say that, I was goingto tell the story about me going
out in the

bryan_1_07-24-2024_09 (21:42):
community and I've done this in every
school I've taken over, which isseveral.
Go out in the community and meetthe people out there.
Have them tell me what theythink about the school, what
they think is going right, whatthey're going wrong.
Ask them how they want to helpparticipate how they want to
become a community leaders inour, our building, become part
of a we thing, not a me thing.
But also, within your school,You know, we talked about Code.

(22:03):
Now, again, mine is of course,respect is earned, not just
given common courtesy demandedof everyone.
We talk about code and havingadministrators building their
own code so they can have a codeso they can go out having
teachers build their own code.
So if they want to becomeadministrators, they can have
something making sure we'regauging.
That's what we're talking about,embedding the things we're

(22:24):
discussing so that they too canbecome leaders of people and
then give them opportunitiesquite frankly, Mark, put them in
places where they can succeed.
It's not uncommon for me to usemy assistant principals, for
example, to make sure they buildup leadership programs.
One may run the PTSA, forexample, parent, teacher,
student associate.
We had one school where we builtup a student organization.

(22:45):
talking about student runprograms, we had the principal
leadership council.
They become president indifferent programs, different
officers, but at the same time,teachers want to have that.
You know, I'll let you laugh atthis one, Mark.
At one time in one of myschools, I was principal.
I was the president of theguitar club.
Our kids wanted to start aguitar program.
And so I told them, you give me10 kids.

(23:07):
I will, we'll have a guitarprogram.
Now, you know, I can't play aninstrument.
I can't read notes or nothing,but I was the advisor of the
guitar club because our kidswanted a guitar club and sure
enough, he had the president,and the vice president and they
did great work because they werein charge and they said, Hey,
we'll get this.
They got the kids, they ran themeetings.
I just sat there and make sure Ihad to do an administrative work

(23:28):
and they're going to job.
So, yes.
That's

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24-2024 (23:31):
a valuable point during the
turnaround.
We become in charge at thebeginning when we're shifting
climate.
Then, we got to slowly startshifting to being a facilitator
of learning.
That's a really good point.
They got to be able to engagewhere they start to feel like

(23:53):
the ideas and processes aretheirs.
That's, a major shift.
And, by the guitar thing issimple.
It's the idea you are justfacilitating, Hey, you get the
people together, I'll facilitateit enough to make it happen,

bryan_1_07-24-2024_0907 (24:05):
Indeed.
I'll tell you what, Mark, Ithink the next piece we're going
to discuss as we're talkingabout climate, culture,
curriculum is going to becurriculum.
What we're doing is trying tomake sure we enhance somebody
else's learning.
We've done this before.
We've done it successfully.
We have both done some prettygood things in education, but at
the same time, the only reasonwe're doing is so we can share

(24:26):
with somebody else and helpsomebody else to continue some
of the positive things thatmaybe we started, or we can
enhance the learning you have.
And Mark I want to make sure Ican give you the same, as far as
this is concerned regarding whatwe're trying to accomplish by
having these programs.

squadcaster-f6fh_1_07-24-20 (24:41):
And that, really is our purpose is,
not to brag about what we know.
It is really to continue to haveimpact on student learning and
engaging learners out there tobe able to utilize some
strategies that we've foundsuccessful over the years.

bryan_1_07-24-2024_ (25:00):
Absolutely.
Mark, I want to say thank youagain for joining in this
conversation.
As always, we'll have our emailsdown in the comments section
below.
We want to appreciate everybodywho's listening to this and we
hope that you'll continuelistening to this series.
Mark, Thank you very much.
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