In this episode of EdUp L&D, Holly Owens interviews James Gilchrist, an influential figure in the Learning and Development (L&D) space. James shares his unique journey from theater to L&D, emphasizing the importance of storytelling, overcoming imposter syndrome, and the transformative role of AI in creating engaging learning experiences. He offers valuable insights for those transitioning into L&D, highlighting the significance of networking and focusing on what brings joy in one's career. The conversation concludes with thoughts on the future of L&D and the importance of creating connections in the professional landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome back to another inspiring episode of Add Up LND.
Today I have the absolute pleasure of welcoming a guest
who is not only a powerhouse in the LND world, but someone I've
admired and collaborated with inmany ways behind the scenes.
James Gilchrist. James is an LND influencer, Ice
(00:23):
Spring advocate, consultant, anddynamic voice in our community.
He brings decades of experience and even more insight into what
what it really takes to grow, evolve, and lead with purpose in
this field. From his early days in the
theater to launching his own consulting agency, Lighthouse
L&D, James shares how leaning into curiosity, connection, and
(00:49):
courage shaped his unique path. In this episode, you'll hear
wisdom on everything from breaking into L&D and embracing
AI to dismantling imposter syndrome and rethinking how we
define confidence and success. If you're a navigator.
If you're navigating your own career pivot, feeling stuck in a
(01:12):
sea of shoulds, this conversation is exactly what you
need. So grab your notebook because
James is about to drop some truth bombs and I know you're
going to walk away with new clarity and inspiration for your
own journey. Let's dig in.
Hi, we're ispring, an international team of e-learning
(01:34):
enthusiasts who help more than 60,000 clients across the globe
succeed with better online learning.
Our two flagship solutions are ispring Suite and ispring Learn
LMS. Ispring Suite is an intuitive,
all in one authoring tool for creating engaging e-learning
content, and ispringlearn is an innovative online training
(01:57):
platform for onboarding, upskilling, and certifying your
teams. We also provide tons of free
resources for aspiring and experienced e-learning
professionals, conduct weekly webinars with top industry
experts, and organize annual e-learning conferences,
challenges, and championships. We'd be happy to get to know you
(02:18):
and pick a solution that fits your needs best.
Go to www.icepringsolutions.com to learn more about us, download
our resources, and connect. Hello everyone and welcome to
another fantastic episode of AddUp.
L and DI am feeling very excitedtoday to have this guest on this
(02:41):
show. James Gilchrist is here and he
is going to talk about all things L&D.
He's an influencer, works with Ice Spring, he has his own
consulting business. He's just he's an all around
just knows a lot of different things and I'm expecting and as
you should, a lot of great advice here.
So, James, welcome to the show. Thank you, Holly, and no
(03:02):
pressure. No pressure, you'll be fine.
You'll be fine. So why don't we start start out
with you telling us your story about how you started and where
you're at now. Like your path to how you came
here. You have your own business, you
do a lot of different things. So tell us about your your, your
journey. Well, I'm, it's lovely to meet
(03:22):
your listeners and I just want to say you and I have been
talking about doing this show for a while and there were a few
times when and when it didn't happen.
No, no, it's a, it's life. And but life is allowing us to
be here together today. And I just want to say how
excited I am to be in the room with you because I'm a, I'm a
(03:43):
huge fan and I love working withyou.
And we have worked together sortof in tandem in a lot of ways,
but we haven't had the chance todo this.
We've never done a panel. We've never had the face to face
online. So I'm honored that you've got
me on your show. So thanks for that.
Ditto. I'm honored that you, you're,
you got to be here and that we got to meet in person in Las
(04:06):
Vegas last. Year, yes, yes, Dev learned last
year. I think that was the first time
we ever got to be in the in the same breathing the same.
Air, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, well.
Well, tell us your story, James.I'm excited to listen to it.
OK, Well, thanks. So first, I just want to say I
(04:26):
was hosting a networking event afew weeks ago and I was inspired
to tell the folks in the room that when they went into their
breakout sessions and they begantalking to each other for the
purposes of getting to know eachother and hopefully forging some
connections and finding waves forward ways of working,
collaborating, etcetera. That they should be mindful of
(04:50):
their past and their story. Like you've just asked me to
share my story, but more focusedon their future.
Where are they going? How do they feel about where
they are now in relationship to where they see themselves and
take people on that journey where what the future looks
like? What is it, you know, what do
(05:12):
you have in store for yourself? Because it's that story and that
journey that invites others to come on it with you.
You can't do anything about anything that's happened before.
And none of us really want to repeat what we've done before.
We're all looking for the next big thing and discovering what
makes us happy and figuring out,you know, how we can get more
(05:34):
passionate about the thing that happens today and tomorrow and
the day after that. So, so I will, but I but I
understand that context and knowing is in some cases, just
how you got into the field of L&D can be really interesting to
people who may be on at that point in their career
themselves. So I will tell a little bit of
(05:55):
that story. I think it's good for folks to
know that I spent my entire 20s.I got an undergraduate degree in
music and print journalism, and I immediately started working
for a theater company. I was touring colleges and
(06:16):
universities doing theater and tended to inform and help
students get acclimated to the new, bigger world of being on
their own and living out, you know, often very far from home
and writing music and finding musicians and starting bands and
doing all of that. So no, I didn't, I didn't
(06:36):
graduate from my university and immediately try to find a job
working at some company that needed learning solutions.
That was not that was not the trajectory.
Yeah. No, not at all.
And apart from, you know, this strong feeling that I needed to
hang on to something that to someone else would look viable
(06:56):
on a resume like an English degree or my journalism degree.
I have always been someone who was looking, looking to the
stars, as it were, and not and trying not to get myself too
worried about, well, to use my mom's words, how to make a
living. You know, That being said, that
(07:19):
trajectory took me to Fast forward 10 years and I'm living
in New York City and I am auditioning for things.
I've been cast in a number of Shakespeare productions because
I tacked on a A2 year certification at a place called
the National Shakespeare Conservatory in my late 20s.
(07:41):
And I was lucky enough to get some great work and some great
parts and that sort of thing. But it's New York City, and if
you don't want to live with 10 people in a shoe box, you need a
little bit of money coming in. So it was network time.
I called a friend. I phoned a friend can iPhone, a
friend. I phoned a friend who said he
(08:02):
had just seen an opportunity to work.
Basically what how he described it was answering phones at a
payroll company and I was like, well, that sounds
straightforward, not very exciting, but you know, I
figured it would be flexible andit would pay the bills.
(08:23):
So what happened next? Well, they hire me, which in my
mind was kind of amazing becausewhat they were hoping was that
they would be bringing people who had some business acumen and
understood payroll taxes and, you know, maybe a little bit of
accounting and, and all. And I had none of that.
But I, but, but I got hired and I went through their, what I
(08:45):
thought of as their two week boot camp.
So I'm being trained by someone on the job whose job is not to
train new hires, but is to be a manager in their own area.
And they have their own team andthey are there doing the best
that they can to give people what they think they need to
know to succeed in the job. That's a nice way of putting it,
(09:09):
but it was disjointed, it was distracting.
There were questions that got left unanswered.
Training materials were definitely more missed than hit.
But when you know, but I've always been a good student, so I
applied myself and I felt OK. If what they've told me is what
I need to know, I am reasonably prepared to do this.
(09:31):
I couldn't have been more wrong.I got through it is all I can
say. I got through my last, you know,
the first four months of my timeat this company were during the
busiest time of year for them, which was the end of the year
because lots more things happen in payroll and business and
stuff like that. So there I am struggling.
I'm going into my own manager's office like 6 times a day.
(09:54):
You know, I, I was the guy who would assure the customer that I
would get back to them and let them know the answer to their
question because I couldn't giveit to him in the moment.
And then I would just run off with my notebook and be like,
OK, what did this mean and what happened and how badly did I
mess this up and etcetera. All of which brought me all of
(10:15):
that finds me at a time a few weeks into the job where I'm
sitting in the break room and I see they've actually posted
something on the cork board saying they're looking for a
training manager and I thought they're looking for a training
manager. I'm glad they're looking for a
training manager. It would have been great if they
already had a training manager. But but here's an opportunity
(10:37):
and I am fresh from out of the fire.
So I made an appointment, walkedinto the one person HR
department, sat down, introducedmyself and explained that I was
really interested in this posting and I was hoping that
they would consider me for it and that I had these ideas and
that, this and that and the other I, you know, all of this.
(10:59):
And the woman sitting across from me, her name is Patricia.
Amazing person. We got to be great friends in
the future. She's sitting there in her
inimitable way, hands folded, smiling.
She's just she's just letting merun down, you know, everything I
have to say. And at the end she says, James,
well, I really appreciate you coming in to talk to me about
(11:20):
this. We'd kind of like to see how you
do at the job we just hired you for before we promote you into
this, into this position. But, and I give her credit for
this, she said if the efficient,if the position is still open
after the end of the year, come back and see me.
(11:41):
And I remembered that and I thanked her and I went back and
I lived out my life as a, you know, struggling payroll
accountant and came back to her office and at that point
explained how much I learned andthat I was still very interested
in it. And she gave me the job.
So wow, that was. I knew that was gonna happen.
(12:03):
That was the beginning. That was the beginning of my
next 23 years doing things related to training people and
creating learning solutions and figuring out what this whole L&D
thing is, which at the time, of course, that was not on my radar
at all. You know, I all I knew was I had
people in front of me who neededhelp and there was materials
(12:24):
that I knew had been used beforethat I was expected to use going
forward that I had used. And they didn't work for me.
So I didn't want to, I didn't, Ididn't want to just repeat, you
know, wash, rinse, repeat process.
Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
So that's so that's the very beginning.
And I think the important thing to take away from that story is
recognizing that it's it was my experience, that it wasn't my
(12:49):
experience that allowed me to move the ball down the field to
be given an opportunity. All it took was me being
passionate enough about the problem and having and being
solution oriented that someone recognized that having me
working for them on that projector in that capacity would make
(13:13):
their life easier rather than harder.
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And that's what LM DS all about.
That's what it's all about. I love it that you you're a
theater person. I could see.
I can tell just from your voice and stuff that that would be an
expectation or an assumption of mine because your voice is just
and you the way you present yourself, you have so much
(13:35):
confidence when you're presenting or when you're you
know, you're the the person who's moderating stuff in the
sessions. I just love that about you.
I think you're one of the best people that I've ever seen, like
moderate some of those sessions and just be on a stage.
It's really interesting because a lot of us and people in the
audience too, that are in the L&D space, we kind of fell into
(13:56):
these roles. I took the more of the, I would
say, quote UN quote, the traditional path.
I was a high school teacher and then I transitioned into
e-learning and then went into higher education instructional
design. But I love the fact that your
story is not the traditional path.
Like you got a job because you're trying to make a trying
to make a living, you're trying to pay the bills and then you
(14:17):
kind of just put yourself out there.
You're very proactive about, youknow, going into the office and
explaining why you'd be great fitter, the solutions that you
could just from knowing what youwere doing.
I think that's that's so that's so cool and it and to me, like
that says a lot to our audience too.
Like don't just wait for somebody to come give you the
(14:38):
position. I think a lot of us are like,
we're stuck maybe in the old arcade days, like, oh, after 10
years, I'm really going to get that promotion from Bob and he's
going to see all the hard work Idid and then it never comes.
Yeah, yeah. Well, that I love that you
mention that because, because itis one of the things that I
(15:00):
learned by doing by putting myself into the business world.
And it just, you know, sink or swim resulted in me picking up
some ideas about how it all worked and what I needed to do
to succeed and what didn't work by virtue of experiencing it.
And I want to go back. First of all, thank you very
(15:23):
much for what you said about me as a presenter and and etcetera
facilitator. I just want to say for the folks
listening, 'cause this is about them.
Like this is a conversation we get to have, but in my mind,
it's all about whoever decides to tune in and listen to this
episode, what, you know, how arewe making their day better?
That kind of thing. I just want to say that the
(15:45):
confidence that is perceived is,is part construct and part
choosing where to put my attention.
So if, for example, I were to tell you, putting my attention
on my audience didn't necessarily help me reach my
(16:08):
audience, that might not be the first thing you would expect.
I mean, kind of think, well, where you put your attention is
where the energy goes. And, and that's what we're,
that's what we need to do, right?
We've heard focus is important and putting yourself in the
shoes of your, of your learner or your listener or your, in
your case, your audience, right.But one of the things that I
learned as a performer, A musician, playing on stage with
(16:32):
a band, doing my own music, acting in plays, auditioning.
Yeah, that stuff scares me. Which is, which is it's a that's
a whole nother. Like there's a wonderful,
there's a wonderful story to tiethe art of auditioning with
succeeding in business, which maybe we can get into.
(16:54):
But for now, I just want to say I learned early on that in those
moments when I was on stage, that if I detected my focus or
my attention moving away from what was happening in the
moment, away from my other actors, away from what my
thoughts needed to be related towhat I was doing.
(17:17):
I'm, I'm channeling Yoda here. I'm like, never his mind on
where he was, what he was doing,right?
Anytime my attention drifted, anytime I started to imagine
seeing myself as others were seeing me, the wheels came off
crash and burn. So one of the reasons why I get
(17:37):
so excited about presenting and facilitating these days is
because I spend time. And I know I'm going to spend
time beforehand asking myself the question, why am I doing
this? What is it that I care about?
What is the best possible outcome?
And is this fun and answering those questions for myself so
(18:00):
that I can facilitate a networking event and be
passionate and outgoing and hopefully engaging because I
truly care that everyone who's there is gonna have a great
experience. That's what I care about.
So I just lean into that. Like, what do I care about?
Why am I here? And pretty soon I'm not thinking
(18:21):
about myself. I'm not thinking about how I'm
doing. I'm not thinking about what I
said 2 seconds ago. I'm just in the moment and I'm
present. And everyone, no matter what
circumstance you're going into that may feel uncomfortable, if
you ask yourself those questionsand you teach yourself to get in
touch with that part of you, that is the why you know why
(18:44):
you're doing it, why you're doing what you do.
You will feel more confident, you will seem more confident,
and you will actually be better at what you're there to do.
So that's that's my my hope thatpeople sort of shake away.
I love that and that's what I think about with the podcast.
That's what I think about every time I present.
(19:05):
Like I want to be so on and prepped for the, what I'm
sharing with the audience that Iwant them to feel like, you
know, when people say to me at the end of like a presentation
or the end of like a, a conference, you know,
interaction or something that they feel more confident and
they feel ready to start again or they feel more motivated.
(19:28):
That's exactly what I want to happen.
That's exactly what I want. I want to give back.
I'm just, you're at the stage inyour career where you're like, I
just want to share what like you, what I've learned and don't
make the same mistakes as me. It's kind of like raising
children, like the we don't wantour kids to make the same
mistakes that we made as we weregrowing up or, you know,
(19:50):
learning different things. And I think what you're kind of
alluding to here is an imposter syndrome that kind of flutters
about throughout L&D. And.
I think people really struggle with that.
Yeah, absolutely. Imposter syndrome is running
rampant, and it's obviously not limited to our industry.
It happens everywhere. But there's an aspect of what we
(20:12):
do that involves putting yourself in view.
You know you can. You can have a job where no one
ever sees you do what you do. IT.
Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what I was
actually. Thinking about them permits.
I was like in the, I was in the server room, you know, in my
mind, they were like looking at the keyboard sticking out of the
wall anyway. But yeah, the point is, it is
(20:34):
true that there is an aspect of the all the things that get
folded up into our larger world,whether it's talent development,
human resources, learning and development, you know, creating
the solutions, delivering the solutions, presenting the
solutions, pitching the solutions.
I mean, there's a lot of people there's, it's all, it's all
people all the time. You know, when and many people I
(20:55):
speak to who are getting into instructional design talk about
how excited they are to learn the tools and create the stuff
and tap into their inner creative, artisanal, what have
you to produce, right. And that is fun.
And I spent 20 years loving thatI could do that.
But as I came to lean into this chapter of my career slash life
(21:21):
experience, I thought about whatmattered to me and where I felt
the most at home. And despite being that guy for
all those years that, Oh well, we need this built like James.
James is up on that. He's up on the latest tech he
knew. He's the guy who's teaching
(21:41):
other people how to use this tool we just bought.
You know, I was that guy. Right, like you're the expert.
Exactly. But where I really shine and
where I personally get the most satisfaction and gratification
is in the conversations with people that are about to decide
what to do next. Those moments where decisions
get made. Those moments where a direction
(22:04):
that you've been going in for a long time suddenly forks and you
choose to go off in a new direction.
And one of the wonderful things about how learning and
development I see is transitioning as a result of the
latest influx of technology is that we're being given tools
that allow us to be more flexible in the moment we can
(22:25):
create the resource. And I just talked, I'm gonna
drop a name, Jen Kamerdiner. She's one of the lovely people
that I have worked with directlyas a client of Lighthouse L&D
Consulting in the past few years.
She has a company called Clear Path Learning Solutions.
They're, they're a great, they're a great firm on a great
(22:46):
L&D firm with great leadership. That said, one of the things
that I posted about I commented on a post of hers just today on
LinkedIn was to say Once Upon a time, the problem was that
figuring out how to position allthe resources needed for a team
(23:09):
equidistant from the point of need.
Meaning it would be just as easyto get this resource when you
needed it as it was to get that resource.
Think of the person or business in the center of a circle and
all the resources needed to makeeverything keep running smoothly
in a circle around them. You know, equidistant in every
direction. The problem was, even if you
could set up a system like that,you couldn't scale it because
(23:34):
the knowledge that was required of the person or the business or
the team in the middle of the circle at any given moment,
depending on what was fluctuating in their business
world, wasn't. That was the IECE that was
missing. Meaning they know there's a
problem, they know they need to react, but they didn't know what
tool to use to react, how to react, when to react, unless
(23:58):
they could find that person who had that knowledge trapped in
their head or it was in a learning module or etcetera.
So you can't scale because there's always that moment where
you sort of jam the gears, you know, shift up.
You're trying to, you're trying to upshift you.
Bottleneck things, yeah. Yeah, like you get this little
bottleneck, right. So, but now with AI and the
tools that we have to make it possible for on the fly people
(24:22):
to ask the question that they need answered and get the
information that tells them exactly what resources to tap
into. Now we're flying.
Now I. Love it.
That's the advantage of this newworld we find ourselves in, and
it's what we've always wanted. We've always talked about
creating learning paths that were flexible and customizable
(24:43):
and specific to the learner and the need of it.
So much work in the background. Yeah, yeah.
Oh my God. To create that, Yeah, right.
And a week, a month, a year fromnow, so much has changed that
all those mechanisms are like train tracks leading nowhere.
Like so all the work you did to build it in the first place,
(25:06):
you're like, well, it's hard to convince the higher ups to throw
that much money at the problem to do it all over again.
Because you see immediately, well, we're going to be in the
same situation. So we have to, you know, we have
to figure out a new way of doingthis.
But now with the where we find ourselves now, and this is what
gets me excited when I see people like you and David Kelly
(25:26):
and Karen North and Tom McDowell.
I just read his newsletter this morning.
The all. Those oh, I love Tom.
Oh gosh, he's so great. They're dropping these truth
bombs, suggesting that hey, rather than being afraid of the
what these tools like AI can do,get excited about how you can
leverage those tools to do what we've always dreamed of, right?
(25:50):
Don't be afraid of the tool. Be excited that now what we've
always wanted to create and havetold people would be the ideal
solution, we actually get to here.
Yeah, I know. It's fantastic.
And the thing about it is it's like the people that are
resisting are creating the stigma around it that is truly
(26:11):
unnecessary at 25 years into the21st century.
I everything that. So I just recently, I use a tool
called Motion. I'm not getting any things from
them. I honestly have been using it
for about a year and they just incorporated some AI, they call
them AI employees. So they each do like different
(26:33):
things. And one of mine is that it
responds to e-mail messages. It's like it drafts it.
It just writes a draft to the e-mail that somebody sent me.
And I'm like, this is a game changer for me because I spend
as a director so much time curating the correct words or
what to say or how to respond, you know, and like, be a
(26:53):
perfectionist. And it's just saving me so much
time. And I'm like, one thing I really
truly feel is that instructionaldesigners or people in learning
and development now get the space to actually be creative
instead of worrying about the scripting, instead of worrying
about the, the whole like outline of the course and trying
(27:16):
to figure that out in five to seven days or something like
that. Like it's already done.
So you really get to be in that design element.
You really get to be in that development piece and be super
creative. It's been what I've been hoping
for and wanting for my entire career as an instructional
designer is something to take off that pressure so I can sit
in this space and just figure out new ways to kind of tap the
(27:40):
psyche, the motivation, all thatpsychology stuff that goes into
instructional design. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's it's amazing. I I don't know how people live
without AI. How, how do we do it?
It's like before the Internet. Yeah, yeah.
Well. So, so, so let, I'll add
something to that because I agree with that.
(28:01):
But again, thinking about so people, people who may this,
this is the thing about change. The thing about change is it's
always uncomfortable, right? The reason change is
uncomfortable is because you arenot yet lined up with what comes
next, right? Being shown a new way of working
or a new circumstance, or your your team is being reorganized,
(28:25):
or you've got a new manager. Like all of those things feel
uncomfortable because we put ourfocus on what is different, what
we don't have any more that we used to have or that we knew.
We put our focus there. And we tell that story over and
over again, you know, in the break room to our wives, to, you
know, we just, we just we just abit about the fact that, oh,
(28:46):
they don't know what they're doing.
They're they're the. Typewriter is gonna last
forever. It's the main.
Yeah, yeah. Whatever, whatever it is, just
recognize that the change, that what you don't hear in that in
the complaining conversation is this.
(29:06):
That if you are fundamentally someone who appreciates and
understands how to get in the minds of someone who needs to
learn something, you are going to be that person.
Provided you get out of your ownway and allow yourself to lean
into some of these new resourcesand tools that business needs to
(29:26):
help them create good content. And that piece of it, that's,
that's what you're not hearing. You're only hearing how instead
of me, the AI is doing all the work.
And the, and the answer is the AI can do, the AI gives you that
flexibility, right? And I had no idea that this is
(29:48):
where this conversation was going to go.
Me either and I but I'm loving it so much.
Yeah, but just, but just think about the flexibility we were
talking about a minute ago. The AI is giving you the ability
to pivot and one of the biggest problems with old 8 L&D models
that I'm sure many of thus anyone who's been in the career
for 10 years or more understands.
You have those projects that gotstarted back in the day and took
(30:12):
forever. And when it was done, you
realized, Oh my God, if if we were, we're launching this, but
if we had started working on it last month, we wouldn't be
launching this. We'd be creating the thing that
we actually need, but we have tolaunch this because this is
where we spent all the money. So we have to start tracking how
effective it is and did it move the needle and do we get an ROI,
(30:35):
blah, blah, blah. But the joy of thinking smaller
and bigger at the same time is that we have the tools that
allow us to create the as needs solutions when they are needed.
And if we can all sit back and recognize that the business
world as our lives is moving andchanging so quickly that
(30:56):
attempting to plant a flag at any point along that journey and
say this is where we're going tostay and we're going to live and
we're going to focus on this problem and we're going to solve
this problem is an outmoded way of thinking.
You have to assume that you are you.
We are all running. We're all in a race.
And the trick is to figure out what are the small things you
can fix fast and quickly along the way to enable everyone else
(31:20):
to keep running. You know, just keep people from
stumbling. Don't worry about bringing them
all back into the dugout and, you know, talking to them for 45
minutes about how to play the game.
No, the game goes on. You got to fix it on the fly.
You know what I mean? 100% And I love the baseball
analogy because it's a fantasticone.
So as we're coming to wrap, thishas been a great conversation.
(31:44):
I've loved what you've been saying here, but we have a lot
of listeners who want advice. You know, you probably get, I'm
just going to assume LinkedIn messages about how you're doing
all that you're doing and doing it so well.
I get tons of LinkedIn messages,especially from transitioning
teachers about like, how did I get into L&D?
How did, how do I have like thisvast network?
(32:07):
Like what did I do? Like every time somebody asks me
that, I'm like, it's really not just one thing, it's a, it's a
lot of different little things. I kind of bring it all together,
but coming from you, I'd love toknow any advice you have for
people who are looking to transition into learning and
development or start their own business like you have.
They really want some takeaways like they want to listen up.
(32:28):
So they're like, what are the what are the three things we can
do today? Well, it's I, I appreciate the
opportunity to speak to it. And I just want to say upfront
that I'm going to quote Tom McDowell.
As a matter of fact, I'm going to say I'm not an expert and the
and I don't know is a viable answer, but but I will say I if
(32:56):
for me to answer the question, the only way I can answer it is
from my own experience. So it comes with that caveat,
meaning I don't expect everyone who's listening to this to
necessarily line up with everything that I think and nor
do they find themselves in my circumstance.
Everyone has their own and they're all doing the best they
can to to work within what they feel like are the constraints
(33:20):
put upon. Them 100%.
So, so if you imagine yourself, if you're not a transitioning
teacher and you're listening to this, just put yourself in
there. Put yourself in the mindset of
someone who is in that situation.
You're leaving what feels like acareer that you have sunk your
heart and soul into and countless hours and a lot of
(33:41):
your own money in the hopes of making of helping people and
helping people succeed. I mean, that is the primary goal
of teaching is that you want to lift people up.
You want to help people do what they want to be able to do and
give them good advice along the way.
And now you are trying to find work in an arena where every
(34:03):
like the the ecosystem of education is nowhere to be
found. So all all the rules have
changed, all the requirements have changed, all the
expectations have changed. And yet the fundamental thing
that you want to continue doing is the same.
So there are a lot of what I call artificial constraints.
(34:25):
Anyone can stand or sit as I am here and say, well, if you want
to succeed, you're going to needto learn this and apply this and
understand this and, and, and basically buy into all of the
reasons why what you do is different, right?
And the problem in my opinion with that approach is that you
(34:46):
will never get to where you're trying to go.
You will be forever trying to learn the thing, upskill,
acquire the knowledge, build thereputation, etcetera, etcetera.
You will just be on a treadmill that never gets you where you
want to go. So I would say this, don't focus
on what is different and don't focus on what other people are
(35:09):
saying that you have to do first.
Throw that out the window my in my opinion, and focus and focus
instead on the area in which youwould truly like to be teaching.
OK, maybe you were an algebra teacher, maybe math.
Maybe math has been the thing that made you excited because
(35:29):
you love the solving of the problems and you like seeing the
light go on in people's eyes when they realized, oh, I can
plug anything in and it works. You know, figure out what area
of business is doing things thatmakes you feel this way.
You feel about your primary areaof interest, like what it is
(35:49):
that you love, why you love teaching what you teach and make
your goal to be forming connections with that field and
those individual companies that are doing that thing in the day
of ATS and resumes being it's like, it's like processed food,
(36:13):
right? The difference between food and
processed food is the differencebetween the resume that in that
Once Upon a time was sort of telling a story and then became
a thing designed for machines toallow a hiring person to have
less, less, fewer resumes on their desk, right?
That was the goal, right? Let me have to spend less time
wading through my applicants right that so so.
(36:36):
So interesting to me is that we've created these barriers
that people have created companies for to overcome these
barriers. So there's ATS companies,
companies that focus on the factthat you can't get through an
ATS system and you pay them to figure out how to.
Yeah. Anyways, that's a conversation
for another day, but that bothers me.
Absolutely, absolutely. And but the, But the point here
is that if you focus on the problem, if you focus on the
(36:58):
obstacle, you will forever be focused on, you will forever be
dealing with the obstacle and the problem because there's
always another way to try and solve that problem, right?
Because some you know, you, you,as you said, the companies are
lining up people on LinkedIn, people on social media lining up
to give you the plan that guarantees that you will be able
(37:19):
to jump all of the hurdles as the hurdles keep client keep
getting higher and higher and higher, right.
So my feeling has been I look atmy past, I look at my journey
and I say, when did my moments of success happen?
How did they happen? What, what were they the result
of me efforting my way into the room?
Or did they happen because suddenly a door opened?
(37:43):
Because I was fully, because I was so focused on the thing that
I wanted to do and was excited about that.
People came in to see what I wasdoing.
The door opened and people came in, People came to me.
I'll use another acting analogy.The difference between stage
acting and being on camera has to do with whether you are
(38:05):
putting yourself out there far enough for the audience to feel
like they're inside you in a play, and being so at one with
who you are that the audience gets pulled into you when you're
on camera. OK, so I'm going to say think of
yourself as a movie star less than a Shakespearean actor.
(38:29):
Don't be worried so much about what you're putting out so that
people see you the way you thinkthey need to see you based on
your ever changing thoughts and what you're being told about
what they need to see. IE putting yourself in the box
someone else created when they don't even know themselves what
needs to be in it, but they're happy to tell you.
You have to align with all thosethings and instead focus on what
(38:52):
brings you joy. And that's going to be really
uncomfortable. It could be very uncomfortable
to change your focus that much and to really start spending
time with yourself and asking yourself if I didn't have to
worry about what anybody else thought of me.
If I didn't have to worry about what anybody else said I should
be doing. If I didn't have to worry about
following all of these rules, all of these rules, what would I
(39:13):
do? What would I want to?
Be my God, I'm super inspired right now.
Need to reflect more. Yeah, well, that's and that's
it. That's it, man, slipping into
my, as people say to me often. You said people reach out to you
and ask you questions about thisstuff all the time, right.
I'm like, people reach out to meand say you're a little rough
(39:35):
around the edges, but I like that about you.
I don't think it'd be like that at all.
I really don't I. Really.
Don't, but that's funny that they say that.
But the reflection, you are absolutely right.
And that is really the heart of it.
And and more than any other thing like sure, I could say go
(39:57):
where? Go where there are fewer people,
meaning don't stand in the largest crowd and expect to be
spotted right. And don't think, don't think of
companies as fortresses. Companies are made-up of people,
(40:18):
and they're just like we know now that everything that appears
to be solid matter is actually made-up of atoms that,
relatively speaking, are miles apart from each other inside
this thing. Anything we, you know, the table
in front of me, I tap, it feels solid, but it's actually empty
space. It's mostly empty space made-up
(40:39):
of individual atoms. Well, companies are made-up of a
lot of space that exists betweenthe people that run them and
everybody has a job to do. So when you see a social media
post, for example, don't think of it as the voice of the
company, even though that's whatthe company wants you to think.
The company doesn't want there to be any personal association
(41:01):
with an individual. They want to say this, this is
our mask, this is our, this is our, our, our map to for
success. This is what we do a large scale
structures, etcetera. But the reality is, is there,
there's somebody who worked till8:00 last night to make sure
that that post went out and looked the way it did and made
(41:21):
the last minute correction that their CEO demanded, etcetera,
etcetera, etcetera. Talk to the company like you
were talking to the people in the company.
I have had so, so much of my success.
I have not, I have not. Like, it's not like I carved it
out of the rock with a pickaxe. Like I'm, I'm, I don't, I don't
(41:41):
like sweating, you know, I don't, I don't want to work
really hard on things that don'timmediately give me a sense of
joy as I'm working on them, right?
Efforting is not my way. But when I look back at any
success that I've had, I recognize it's because I have
allowed, I have allowed the connection that led to the
(42:06):
opportunity that led to the success.
And we all need to be, I think, working harder.
Not, you know, joke tongue in cheek.
We need to be working harder at allowing those connections to
happen. Yeah, 100%.
(42:26):
James, this has been a great episode.
I've really enjoyed this. Tell people where they can
connect with you. Where can they find you?
So it's a great example of not doing things the traditional
way. I started Lighthouse L&D
consulting because someone wanted to work with me and they
(42:47):
assumed and they assumed that they could because they figured
I had to be offering my servicesout as a consultant.
And so I immediately said, yes, that is exactly right.
And my company is called this and I will be happy to work with
you. And then I had to go create my
(43:09):
company. I had to create.
I had to create a presence. I had to create a brand.
I had to think about what I wanted to do.
Now, that isn't to say that two weeks prior to that, I hadn't
stood in my living room and saidto my amazing wife, Julie
Sherwood, that all the things that I was not going to do
anymore, the things I was not happy about, the things the box
(43:29):
I didn't want to put myself intoand what I did want.
I just did a tirade to the universe about what I want and
what I don't want. And that, in my opinion, is what
that was the door. That was the door that opened.
I opened it for myself. I said I'm going to allow myself
to believe that I can do what I want and not do the stuff I
(43:49):
don't want to do. And two weeks later, somebody's
reaching out to me, assuming I have a business and wanting to
pay me. Yeah, that's.
Awesome, so I don't have a website.
I still don't have a website. I've been doing this for 2 1/2
years and the only place that I ever the the where I like to
focus is LinkedIn. So I put all of my time and
energy on LinkedIn so people canfind me at my LinkedIn address,
(44:13):
which is basically the LinkedIn URL plus James we're.
Gonna have it. All OK.
Yeah. Yeah, it's all gonna be there
for you. So I'm so glad that you're out
of LinkedIn world. It, it, it, it's a great space.
It's, you know, some people kindof bashed on it, but I don't
know where I'd be without LinkedIn at this point in the
community and the support and all the people that are there.
(44:34):
I don't think I would truly be motivated to go and do these
things you're say doing like find your passions, don't do the
things you don't want to do, do the things you want to do.
It's just, it's so inspirational.
So thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your
experiences and talking with allthese different things about us.
I know the audience is like probably like, wow right now and
(44:57):
they want to come out and talk to you.
And everything will be in the show notes about how to connect
with James out on LinkedIn. And of course, if you have
questions, reach out to me, reach out to him.
We're happy to to support you ifyou're making this transition
into L&D. So, James, thanks so much for
coming on the show. My absolute pleasure.
Thank you for the questions. That's why I like to do podcasts
(45:20):
because I never know what I'm going to say and I don't know
what I think until I say it. So you've just given me more
clarity, which I love, and I just want to double down and
repeat what you just said to anyone listening to the show
you. What if you have a question?
If you feel like you should be closer to the answer than you
are, and you want to reach out to someone and get help, Holly
(45:43):
is an amazing person to talk to.I am happy to talk to you.
The field of L&D is full of generous people, and the only
thing standing between you and getting those answers is your
willingness to ask for the help that you need.
Absolutely, absolutely. Well said.
Thanks, Holly. Hi, we're Ice Spring, an
international team of e-learningenthusiasts who help more than
(46:05):
60,000 clients across the globe succeed with better online
learning. Our two flagship solutions are
ispring Suite and ispring Learn LMS.
Ispring Suite is an intuitive, all in
(46:29):
Go to www.ispringsolutions.com to learn more about us and
connect. Thanks for spending a few
minutes with Holly. She knows your podcast queue is
packed. If today's episode sparked an
idea or gave you that extra nudge of confidence, tap, follow
or subscribe in your favorite app so you never miss an episode
of Ed Up L&D. Dropping a quick rating or
(46:52):
review helps more educators and learning pros discover the show,
too. Want to keep the conversation
going? Connect with Holly on LinkedIn
and share your biggest take awayshe reads.
Every message. Until next time, keep learning,
keep leading, and keep believingin your own story.
Talk soon.
Welcome back to another inspiring episode of Add Up LND.
Today I have the absolute pleasure of welcoming a guest
who is not only a powerhouse in the LND world, but someone I've
admired and collaborated with inmany ways behind the scenes.
James Gilchrist. James is an LND influencer, Ice
(00:23):
Spring advocate, consultant, anddynamic voice in our community.
He brings decades of experience and even more insight into what
what it really takes to grow, evolve, and lead with purpose in
this field. From his early days in the
theater to launching his own consulting agency, Lighthouse
L&D, James shares how leaning into curiosity, connection, and
(00:49):
courage shaped his unique path. In this episode, you'll hear
wisdom on everything from breaking into L&D and embracing
AI to dismantling imposter syndrome and rethinking how we
define confidence and success. If you're a navigator.
If you're navigating your own career pivot, feeling stuck in a
(01:12):
sea of shoulds, this conversation is exactly what you
need. So grab your notebook because
James is about to drop some truth bombs and I know you're
going to walk away with new clarity and inspiration for your
own journey. Let's dig in.
Hi, we're ispring, an international team of e-learning
(01:34):
enthusiasts who help more than 60,000 clients across the globe
succeed with better online learning.
Our two flagship solutions are ispring Suite and ispring Learn
LMS. Ispring Suite is an intuitive,
all in one authoring tool for creating engaging e-learning
content, and ispringlearn is an innovative online training
(01:57):
platform for onboarding, upskilling, and certifying your
teams. We also provide tons of free
resources for aspiring and experienced e-learning
professionals, conduct weekly webinars with top industry
experts, and organize annual e-learning conferences,
challenges, and championships. We'd be happy to get to know you
(02:18):
and pick a solution that fits your needs best.
Go to www.icepringsolutions.com to learn more about us, download
our resources, and connect. Hello everyone and welcome to
another fantastic episode of AddUp.
L and DI am feeling very excitedtoday to have this guest on this
(02:41):
show. James Gilchrist is here and he
is going to talk about all things L&D.
He's an influencer, works with Ice Spring, he has his own
consulting business. He's just he's an all around
just knows a lot of different things and I'm expecting and as
you should, a lot of great advice here.
So, James, welcome to the show. Thank you, Holly, and no
(03:02):
pressure. No pressure, you'll be fine.
You'll be fine. So why don't we start start out
with you telling us your story about how you started and where
you're at now. Like your path to how you came
here. You have your own business, you
do a lot of different things. So tell us about your your, your
journey. Well, I'm, it's lovely to meet
(03:22):
your listeners and I just want to say you and I have been
talking about doing this show for a while and there were a few
times when and when it didn't happen.
No, no, it's a, it's life. And but life is allowing us to
be here together today. And I just want to say how
excited I am to be in the room with you because I'm a, I'm a
(03:43):
huge fan and I love working withyou.
And we have worked together sortof in tandem in a lot of ways,
but we haven't had the chance todo this.
We've never done a panel. We've never had the face to face
online. So I'm honored that you've got
me on your show. So thanks for that.
Ditto. I'm honored that you, you're,
you got to be here and that we got to meet in person in Las
(04:06):
Vegas last. Year, yes, yes, Dev learned last
year. I think that was the first time
we ever got to be in the in the same breathing the same.
Air, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, well.
Well, tell us your story, James.I'm excited to listen to it.
OK, Well, thanks. So first, I just want to say I
(04:26):
was hosting a networking event afew weeks ago and I was inspired
to tell the folks in the room that when they went into their
breakout sessions and they begantalking to each other for the
purposes of getting to know eachother and hopefully forging some
connections and finding waves forward ways of working,
collaborating, etcetera. That they should be mindful of
(04:50):
their past and their story. Like you've just asked me to
share my story, but more focusedon their future.
Where are they going? How do they feel about where
they are now in relationship to where they see themselves and
take people on that journey where what the future looks
like? What is it, you know, what do
(05:12):
you have in store for yourself? Because it's that story and that
journey that invites others to come on it with you.
You can't do anything about anything that's happened before.
And none of us really want to repeat what we've done before.
We're all looking for the next big thing and discovering what
makes us happy and figuring out,you know, how we can get more
(05:34):
passionate about the thing that happens today and tomorrow and
the day after that. So, so I will, but I but I
understand that context and knowing is in some cases, just
how you got into the field of L&D can be really interesting to
people who may be on at that point in their career
themselves. So I will tell a little bit of
(05:55):
that story. I think it's good for folks to
know that I spent my entire 20s.I got an undergraduate degree in
music and print journalism, and I immediately started working
for a theater company. I was touring colleges and
(06:16):
universities doing theater and tended to inform and help
students get acclimated to the new, bigger world of being on
their own and living out, you know, often very far from home
and writing music and finding musicians and starting bands and
doing all of that. So no, I didn't, I didn't
(06:36):
graduate from my university and immediately try to find a job
working at some company that needed learning solutions.
That was not that was not the trajectory.
Yeah. No, not at all.
And apart from, you know, this strong feeling that I needed to
hang on to something that to someone else would look viable
(06:56):
on a resume like an English degree or my journalism degree.
I have always been someone who was looking, looking to the
stars, as it were, and not and trying not to get myself too
worried about, well, to use my mom's words, how to make a
living. You know, That being said, that
(07:19):
trajectory took me to Fast forward 10 years and I'm living
in New York City and I am auditioning for things.
I've been cast in a number of Shakespeare productions because
I tacked on a A2 year certification at a place called
the National Shakespeare Conservatory in my late 20s.
(07:41):
And I was lucky enough to get some great work and some great
parts and that sort of thing. But it's New York City, and if
you don't want to live with 10 people in a shoe box, you need a
little bit of money coming in. So it was network time.
I called a friend. I phoned a friend can iPhone, a
friend. I phoned a friend who said he
(08:02):
had just seen an opportunity to work.
Basically what how he described it was answering phones at a
payroll company and I was like, well, that sounds
straightforward, not very exciting, but you know, I
figured it would be flexible andit would pay the bills.
(08:23):
So what happened next? Well, they hire me, which in my
mind was kind of amazing becausewhat they were hoping was that
they would be bringing people who had some business acumen and
understood payroll taxes and, you know, maybe a little bit of
accounting and, and all. And I had none of that.
But I, but, but I got hired and I went through their, what I
(08:45):
thought of as their two week boot camp.
So I'm being trained by someone on the job whose job is not to
train new hires, but is to be a manager in their own area.
And they have their own team andthey are there doing the best
that they can to give people what they think they need to
know to succeed in the job. That's a nice way of putting it,
(09:09):
but it was disjointed, it was distracting.
There were questions that got left unanswered.
Training materials were definitely more missed than hit.
But when you know, but I've always been a good student, so I
applied myself and I felt OK. If what they've told me is what
I need to know, I am reasonably prepared to do this.
(09:31):
I couldn't have been more wrong.I got through it is all I can
say. I got through my last, you know,
the first four months of my timeat this company were during the
busiest time of year for them, which was the end of the year
because lots more things happen in payroll and business and
stuff like that. So there I am struggling.
I'm going into my own manager's office like 6 times a day.
(09:54):
You know, I, I was the guy who would assure the customer that I
would get back to them and let them know the answer to their
question because I couldn't giveit to him in the moment.
And then I would just run off with my notebook and be like,
OK, what did this mean and what happened and how badly did I
mess this up and etcetera. All of which brought me all of
(10:15):
that finds me at a time a few weeks into the job where I'm
sitting in the break room and I see they've actually posted
something on the cork board saying they're looking for a
training manager and I thought they're looking for a training
manager. I'm glad they're looking for a
training manager. It would have been great if they
already had a training manager. But but here's an opportunity
(10:37):
and I am fresh from out of the fire.
So I made an appointment, walkedinto the one person HR
department, sat down, introducedmyself and explained that I was
really interested in this posting and I was hoping that
they would consider me for it and that I had these ideas and
that, this and that and the other I, you know, all of this.
(10:59):
And the woman sitting across from me, her name is Patricia.
Amazing person. We got to be great friends in
the future. She's sitting there in her
inimitable way, hands folded, smiling.
She's just she's just letting merun down, you know, everything I
have to say. And at the end she says, James,
well, I really appreciate you coming in to talk to me about
(11:20):
this. We'd kind of like to see how you
do at the job we just hired you for before we promote you into
this, into this position. But, and I give her credit for
this, she said if the efficient,if the position is still open
after the end of the year, come back and see me.
(11:41):
And I remembered that and I thanked her and I went back and
I lived out my life as a, you know, struggling payroll
accountant and came back to her office and at that point
explained how much I learned andthat I was still very interested
in it. And she gave me the job.
So wow, that was. I knew that was gonna happen.
(12:03):
That was the beginning. That was the beginning of my
next 23 years doing things related to training people and
creating learning solutions and figuring out what this whole L&D
thing is, which at the time, of course, that was not on my radar
at all. You know, I all I knew was I had
people in front of me who neededhelp and there was materials
(12:24):
that I knew had been used beforethat I was expected to use going
forward that I had used. And they didn't work for me.
So I didn't want to, I didn't, Ididn't want to just repeat, you
know, wash, rinse, repeat process.
Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
So that's so that's the very beginning.
And I think the important thing to take away from that story is
recognizing that it's it was my experience, that it wasn't my
(12:49):
experience that allowed me to move the ball down the field to
be given an opportunity. All it took was me being
passionate enough about the problem and having and being
solution oriented that someone recognized that having me
working for them on that projector in that capacity would make
(13:13):
their life easier rather than harder.
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And that's what LM DS all about.
That's what it's all about. I love it that you you're a
theater person. I could see.
I can tell just from your voice and stuff that that would be an
expectation or an assumption of mine because your voice is just
and you the way you present yourself, you have so much
(13:35):
confidence when you're presenting or when you're you
know, you're the the person who's moderating stuff in the
sessions. I just love that about you.
I think you're one of the best people that I've ever seen, like
moderate some of those sessions and just be on a stage.
It's really interesting because a lot of us and people in the
audience too, that are in the L&D space, we kind of fell into
(13:56):
these roles. I took the more of the, I would
say, quote UN quote, the traditional path.
I was a high school teacher and then I transitioned into
e-learning and then went into higher education instructional
design. But I love the fact that your
story is not the traditional path.
Like you got a job because you're trying to make a trying
to make a living, you're trying to pay the bills and then you
(14:17):
kind of just put yourself out there.
You're very proactive about, youknow, going into the office and
explaining why you'd be great fitter, the solutions that you
could just from knowing what youwere doing.
I think that's that's so that's so cool and it and to me, like
that says a lot to our audience too.
Like don't just wait for somebody to come give you the
(14:38):
position. I think a lot of us are like,
we're stuck maybe in the old arcade days, like, oh, after 10
years, I'm really going to get that promotion from Bob and he's
going to see all the hard work Idid and then it never comes.
Yeah, yeah. Well, that I love that you
mention that because, because itis one of the things that I
(15:00):
learned by doing by putting myself into the business world.
And it just, you know, sink or swim resulted in me picking up
some ideas about how it all worked and what I needed to do
to succeed and what didn't work by virtue of experiencing it.
And I want to go back. First of all, thank you very
(15:23):
much for what you said about me as a presenter and and etcetera
facilitator. I just want to say for the folks
listening, 'cause this is about them.
Like this is a conversation we get to have, but in my mind,
it's all about whoever decides to tune in and listen to this
episode, what, you know, how arewe making their day better?
That kind of thing. I just want to say that the
(15:45):
confidence that is perceived is,is part construct and part
choosing where to put my attention.
So if, for example, I were to tell you, putting my attention
on my audience didn't necessarily help me reach my
(16:08):
audience, that might not be the first thing you would expect.
I mean, kind of think, well, where you put your attention is
where the energy goes. And, and that's what we're,
that's what we need to do, right?
We've heard focus is important and putting yourself in the
shoes of your, of your learner or your listener or your, in
your case, your audience, right.But one of the things that I
learned as a performer, A musician, playing on stage with
(16:32):
a band, doing my own music, acting in plays, auditioning.
Yeah, that stuff scares me. Which is, which is it's a that's
a whole nother. Like there's a wonderful,
there's a wonderful story to tiethe art of auditioning with
succeeding in business, which maybe we can get into.
(16:54):
But for now, I just want to say I learned early on that in those
moments when I was on stage, that if I detected my focus or
my attention moving away from what was happening in the
moment, away from my other actors, away from what my
thoughts needed to be related towhat I was doing.
(17:17):
I'm, I'm channeling Yoda here. I'm like, never his mind on
where he was, what he was doing,right?
Anytime my attention drifted, anytime I started to imagine
seeing myself as others were seeing me, the wheels came off
crash and burn. So one of the reasons why I get
(17:37):
so excited about presenting and facilitating these days is
because I spend time. And I know I'm going to spend
time beforehand asking myself the question, why am I doing
this? What is it that I care about?
What is the best possible outcome?
And is this fun and answering those questions for myself so
(18:00):
that I can facilitate a networking event and be
passionate and outgoing and hopefully engaging because I
truly care that everyone who's there is gonna have a great
experience. That's what I care about.
So I just lean into that. Like, what do I care about?
Why am I here? And pretty soon I'm not thinking
(18:21):
about myself. I'm not thinking about how I'm
doing. I'm not thinking about what I
said 2 seconds ago. I'm just in the moment and I'm
present. And everyone, no matter what
circumstance you're going into that may feel uncomfortable, if
you ask yourself those questionsand you teach yourself to get in
touch with that part of you, that is the why you know why
(18:44):
you're doing it, why you're doing what you do.
You will feel more confident, you will seem more confident,
and you will actually be better at what you're there to do.
So that's that's my my hope thatpeople sort of shake away.
I love that and that's what I think about with the podcast.
That's what I think about every time I present.
(19:05):
Like I want to be so on and prepped for the, what I'm
sharing with the audience that Iwant them to feel like, you
know, when people say to me at the end of like a presentation
or the end of like a, a conference, you know,
interaction or something that they feel more confident and
they feel ready to start again or they feel more motivated.
(19:28):
That's exactly what I want to happen.
That's exactly what I want. I want to give back.
I'm just, you're at the stage inyour career where you're like, I
just want to share what like you, what I've learned and don't
make the same mistakes as me. It's kind of like raising
children, like the we don't wantour kids to make the same
mistakes that we made as we weregrowing up or, you know,
(19:50):
learning different things. And I think what you're kind of
alluding to here is an imposter syndrome that kind of flutters
about throughout L&D. And.
I think people really struggle with that.
Yeah, absolutely. Imposter syndrome is running
rampant, and it's obviously not limited to our industry.
It happens everywhere. But there's an aspect of what we
(20:12):
do that involves putting yourself in view.
You know you can. You can have a job where no one
ever sees you do what you do. IT.
Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what I was
actually. Thinking about them permits.
I was like in the, I was in the server room, you know, in my
mind, they were like looking at the keyboard sticking out of the
wall anyway. But yeah, the point is, it is
(20:34):
true that there is an aspect of the all the things that get
folded up into our larger world,whether it's talent development,
human resources, learning and development, you know, creating
the solutions, delivering the solutions, presenting the
solutions, pitching the solutions.
I mean, there's a lot of people there's, it's all, it's all
people all the time. You know, when and many people I
(20:55):
speak to who are getting into instructional design talk about
how excited they are to learn the tools and create the stuff
and tap into their inner creative, artisanal, what have
you to produce, right. And that is fun.
And I spent 20 years loving thatI could do that.
But as I came to lean into this chapter of my career slash life
(21:21):
experience, I thought about whatmattered to me and where I felt
the most at home. And despite being that guy for
all those years that, Oh well, we need this built like James.
James is up on that. He's up on the latest tech he
knew. He's the guy who's teaching
(21:41):
other people how to use this tool we just bought.
You know, I was that guy. Right, like you're the expert.
Exactly. But where I really shine and
where I personally get the most satisfaction and gratification
is in the conversations with people that are about to decide
what to do next. Those moments where decisions
get made. Those moments where a direction
(22:04):
that you've been going in for a long time suddenly forks and you
choose to go off in a new direction.
And one of the wonderful things about how learning and
development I see is transitioning as a result of the
latest influx of technology is that we're being given tools
that allow us to be more flexible in the moment we can
(22:25):
create the resource. And I just talked, I'm gonna
drop a name, Jen Kamerdiner. She's one of the lovely people
that I have worked with directlyas a client of Lighthouse L&D
Consulting in the past few years.
She has a company called Clear Path Learning Solutions.
They're, they're a great, they're a great firm on a great
(22:46):
L&D firm with great leadership. That said, one of the things
that I posted about I commented on a post of hers just today on
LinkedIn was to say Once Upon a time, the problem was that
figuring out how to position allthe resources needed for a team
(23:09):
equidistant from the point of need.
Meaning it would be just as easyto get this resource when you
needed it as it was to get that resource.
Think of the person or business in the center of a circle and
all the resources needed to makeeverything keep running smoothly
in a circle around them. You know, equidistant in every
direction. The problem was, even if you
could set up a system like that,you couldn't scale it because
(23:34):
the knowledge that was required of the person or the business or
the team in the middle of the circle at any given moment,
depending on what was fluctuating in their business
world, wasn't. That was the IECE that was
missing. Meaning they know there's a
problem, they know they need to react, but they didn't know what
tool to use to react, how to react, when to react, unless
(23:58):
they could find that person who had that knowledge trapped in
their head or it was in a learning module or etcetera.
So you can't scale because there's always that moment where
you sort of jam the gears, you know, shift up.
You're trying to, you're trying to upshift you.
Bottleneck things, yeah. Yeah, like you get this little
bottleneck, right. So, but now with AI and the
tools that we have to make it possible for on the fly people
(24:22):
to ask the question that they need answered and get the
information that tells them exactly what resources to tap
into. Now we're flying.
Now I. Love it.
That's the advantage of this newworld we find ourselves in, and
it's what we've always wanted. We've always talked about
creating learning paths that were flexible and customizable
(24:43):
and specific to the learner and the need of it.
So much work in the background. Yeah, yeah.
Oh my God. To create that, Yeah, right.
And a week, a month, a year fromnow, so much has changed that
all those mechanisms are like train tracks leading nowhere.
Like so all the work you did to build it in the first place,
(25:06):
you're like, well, it's hard to convince the higher ups to throw
that much money at the problem to do it all over again.
Because you see immediately, well, we're going to be in the
same situation. So we have to, you know, we have
to figure out a new way of doingthis.
But now with the where we find ourselves now, and this is what
gets me excited when I see people like you and David Kelly
(25:26):
and Karen North and Tom McDowell.
I just read his newsletter this morning.
The all. Those oh, I love Tom.
Oh gosh, he's so great. They're dropping these truth
bombs, suggesting that hey, rather than being afraid of the
what these tools like AI can do,get excited about how you can
leverage those tools to do what we've always dreamed of, right?
(25:50):
Don't be afraid of the tool. Be excited that now what we've
always wanted to create and havetold people would be the ideal
solution, we actually get to here.
Yeah, I know. It's fantastic.
And the thing about it is it's like the people that are
resisting are creating the stigma around it that is truly
(26:11):
unnecessary at 25 years into the21st century.
I everything that. So I just recently, I use a tool
called Motion. I'm not getting any things from
them. I honestly have been using it
for about a year and they just incorporated some AI, they call
them AI employees. So they each do like different
(26:33):
things. And one of mine is that it
responds to e-mail messages. It's like it drafts it.
It just writes a draft to the e-mail that somebody sent me.
And I'm like, this is a game changer for me because I spend
as a director so much time curating the correct words or
what to say or how to respond, you know, and like, be a
(26:53):
perfectionist. And it's just saving me so much
time. And I'm like, one thing I really
truly feel is that instructionaldesigners or people in learning
and development now get the space to actually be creative
instead of worrying about the scripting, instead of worrying
about the, the whole like outline of the course and trying
(27:16):
to figure that out in five to seven days or something like
that. Like it's already done.
So you really get to be in that design element.
You really get to be in that development piece and be super
creative. It's been what I've been hoping
for and wanting for my entire career as an instructional
designer is something to take off that pressure so I can sit
in this space and just figure out new ways to kind of tap the
(27:40):
psyche, the motivation, all thatpsychology stuff that goes into
instructional design. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's it's amazing. I I don't know how people live
without AI. How, how do we do it?
It's like before the Internet. Yeah, yeah.
Well. So, so, so let, I'll add
something to that because I agree with that.
(28:01):
But again, thinking about so people, people who may this,
this is the thing about change. The thing about change is it's
always uncomfortable, right? The reason change is
uncomfortable is because you arenot yet lined up with what comes
next, right? Being shown a new way of working
or a new circumstance, or your your team is being reorganized,
(28:25):
or you've got a new manager. Like all of those things feel
uncomfortable because we put ourfocus on what is different, what
we don't have any more that we used to have or that we knew.
We put our focus there. And we tell that story over and
over again, you know, in the break room to our wives, to, you
know, we just, we just we just abit about the fact that, oh,
(28:46):
they don't know what they're doing.
They're they're the. Typewriter is gonna last
forever. It's the main.
Yeah, yeah. Whatever, whatever it is, just
recognize that the change, that what you don't hear in that in
the complaining conversation is this.
(29:06):
That if you are fundamentally someone who appreciates and
understands how to get in the minds of someone who needs to
learn something, you are going to be that person.
Provided you get out of your ownway and allow yourself to lean
into some of these new resourcesand tools that business needs to
(29:26):
help them create good content. And that piece of it, that's,
that's what you're not hearing. You're only hearing how instead
of me, the AI is doing all the work.
And the, and the answer is the AI can do, the AI gives you that
flexibility, right? And I had no idea that this is
(29:48):
where this conversation was going to go.
Me either and I but I'm loving it so much.
Yeah, but just, but just think about the flexibility we were
talking about a minute ago. The AI is giving you the ability
to pivot and one of the biggest problems with old 8 L&D models
that I'm sure many of thus anyone who's been in the career
for 10 years or more understands.
You have those projects that gotstarted back in the day and took
(30:12):
forever. And when it was done, you
realized, Oh my God, if if we were, we're launching this, but
if we had started working on it last month, we wouldn't be
launching this. We'd be creating the thing that
we actually need, but we have tolaunch this because this is
where we spent all the money. So we have to start tracking how
effective it is and did it move the needle and do we get an ROI,
(30:35):
blah, blah, blah. But the joy of thinking smaller
and bigger at the same time is that we have the tools that
allow us to create the as needs solutions when they are needed.
And if we can all sit back and recognize that the business
world as our lives is moving andchanging so quickly that
(30:56):
attempting to plant a flag at any point along that journey and
say this is where we're going tostay and we're going to live and
we're going to focus on this problem and we're going to solve
this problem is an outmoded way of thinking.
You have to assume that you are you.
We are all running. We're all in a race.
And the trick is to figure out what are the small things you
can fix fast and quickly along the way to enable everyone else
(31:20):
to keep running. You know, just keep people from
stumbling. Don't worry about bringing them
all back into the dugout and, you know, talking to them for 45
minutes about how to play the game.
No, the game goes on. You got to fix it on the fly.
You know what I mean? 100% And I love the baseball
analogy because it's a fantasticone.
So as we're coming to wrap, thishas been a great conversation.
(31:44):
I've loved what you've been saying here, but we have a lot
of listeners who want advice. You know, you probably get, I'm
just going to assume LinkedIn messages about how you're doing
all that you're doing and doing it so well.
I get tons of LinkedIn messages,especially from transitioning
teachers about like, how did I get into L&D?
How did, how do I have like thisvast network?
(32:07):
Like what did I do? Like every time somebody asks me
that, I'm like, it's really not just one thing, it's a, it's a
lot of different little things. I kind of bring it all together,
but coming from you, I'd love toknow any advice you have for
people who are looking to transition into learning and
development or start their own business like you have.
They really want some takeaways like they want to listen up.
(32:28):
So they're like, what are the what are the three things we can
do today? Well, it's I, I appreciate the
opportunity to speak to it. And I just want to say upfront
that I'm going to quote Tom McDowell.
As a matter of fact, I'm going to say I'm not an expert and the
and I don't know is a viable answer, but but I will say I if
(32:56):
for me to answer the question, the only way I can answer it is
from my own experience. So it comes with that caveat,
meaning I don't expect everyone who's listening to this to
necessarily line up with everything that I think and nor
do they find themselves in my circumstance.
Everyone has their own and they're all doing the best they
can to to work within what they feel like are the constraints
(33:20):
put upon. Them 100%.
So, so if you imagine yourself, if you're not a transitioning
teacher and you're listening to this, just put yourself in
there. Put yourself in the mindset of
someone who is in that situation.
You're leaving what feels like acareer that you have sunk your
heart and soul into and countless hours and a lot of
(33:41):
your own money in the hopes of making of helping people and
helping people succeed. I mean, that is the primary goal
of teaching is that you want to lift people up.
You want to help people do what they want to be able to do and
give them good advice along the way.
And now you are trying to find work in an arena where every
(34:03):
like the the ecosystem of education is nowhere to be
found. So all all the rules have
changed, all the requirements have changed, all the
expectations have changed. And yet the fundamental thing
that you want to continue doing is the same.
So there are a lot of what I call artificial constraints.
(34:25):
Anyone can stand or sit as I am here and say, well, if you want
to succeed, you're going to needto learn this and apply this and
understand this and, and, and basically buy into all of the
reasons why what you do is different, right?
And the problem in my opinion with that approach is that you
(34:46):
will never get to where you're trying to go.
You will be forever trying to learn the thing, upskill,
acquire the knowledge, build thereputation, etcetera, etcetera.
You will just be on a treadmill that never gets you where you
want to go. So I would say this, don't focus
on what is different and don't focus on what other people are
(35:09):
saying that you have to do first.
Throw that out the window my in my opinion, and focus and focus
instead on the area in which youwould truly like to be teaching.
OK, maybe you were an algebra teacher, maybe math.
Maybe math has been the thing that made you excited because
(35:29):
you love the solving of the problems and you like seeing the
light go on in people's eyes when they realized, oh, I can
plug anything in and it works. You know, figure out what area
of business is doing things thatmakes you feel this way.
You feel about your primary areaof interest, like what it is
(35:49):
that you love, why you love teaching what you teach and make
your goal to be forming connections with that field and
those individual companies that are doing that thing in the day
of ATS and resumes being it's like, it's like processed food,
(36:13):
right? The difference between food and
processed food is the differencebetween the resume that in that
Once Upon a time was sort of telling a story and then became
a thing designed for machines toallow a hiring person to have
less, less, fewer resumes on their desk, right?
That was the goal, right? Let me have to spend less time
wading through my applicants right that so so.
(36:36):
So interesting to me is that we've created these barriers
that people have created companies for to overcome these
barriers. So there's ATS companies,
companies that focus on the factthat you can't get through an
ATS system and you pay them to figure out how to.
Yeah. Anyways, that's a conversation
for another day, but that bothers me.
Absolutely, absolutely. And but the, But the point here
is that if you focus on the problem, if you focus on the
(36:58):
obstacle, you will forever be focused on, you will forever be
dealing with the obstacle and the problem because there's
always another way to try and solve that problem, right?
Because some you know, you, you,as you said, the companies are
lining up people on LinkedIn, people on social media lining up
to give you the plan that guarantees that you will be able
(37:19):
to jump all of the hurdles as the hurdles keep client keep
getting higher and higher and higher, right.
So my feeling has been I look atmy past, I look at my journey
and I say, when did my moments of success happen?
How did they happen? What, what were they the result
of me efforting my way into the room?
Or did they happen because suddenly a door opened?
(37:43):
Because I was fully, because I was so focused on the thing that
I wanted to do and was excited about that.
People came in to see what I wasdoing.
The door opened and people came in, People came to me.
I'll use another acting analogy.The difference between stage
acting and being on camera has to do with whether you are
(38:05):
putting yourself out there far enough for the audience to feel
like they're inside you in a play, and being so at one with
who you are that the audience gets pulled into you when you're
on camera. OK, so I'm going to say think of
yourself as a movie star less than a Shakespearean actor.
(38:29):
Don't be worried so much about what you're putting out so that
people see you the way you thinkthey need to see you based on
your ever changing thoughts and what you're being told about
what they need to see. IE putting yourself in the box
someone else created when they don't even know themselves what
needs to be in it, but they're happy to tell you.
You have to align with all thosethings and instead focus on what
(38:52):
brings you joy. And that's going to be really
uncomfortable. It could be very uncomfortable
to change your focus that much and to really start spending
time with yourself and asking yourself if I didn't have to
worry about what anybody else thought of me.
If I didn't have to worry about what anybody else said I should
be doing. If I didn't have to worry about
following all of these rules, all of these rules, what would I
(39:13):
do? What would I want to?
Be my God, I'm super inspired right now.
Need to reflect more. Yeah, well, that's and that's
it. That's it, man, slipping into
my, as people say to me often. You said people reach out to you
and ask you questions about thisstuff all the time, right.
I'm like, people reach out to meand say you're a little rough
(39:35):
around the edges, but I like that about you.
I don't think it'd be like that at all.
I really don't I. Really.
Don't, but that's funny that they say that.
But the reflection, you are absolutely right.
And that is really the heart of it.
And and more than any other thing like sure, I could say go
(39:57):
where? Go where there are fewer people,
meaning don't stand in the largest crowd and expect to be
spotted right. And don't think, don't think of
companies as fortresses. Companies are made-up of people,
(40:18):
and they're just like we know now that everything that appears
to be solid matter is actually made-up of atoms that,
relatively speaking, are miles apart from each other inside
this thing. Anything we, you know, the table
in front of me, I tap, it feels solid, but it's actually empty
space. It's mostly empty space made-up
(40:39):
of individual atoms. Well, companies are made-up of a
lot of space that exists betweenthe people that run them and
everybody has a job to do. So when you see a social media
post, for example, don't think of it as the voice of the
company, even though that's whatthe company wants you to think.
The company doesn't want there to be any personal association
(41:01):
with an individual. They want to say this, this is
our mask, this is our, this is our, our, our map to for
success. This is what we do a large scale
structures, etcetera. But the reality is, is there,
there's somebody who worked till8:00 last night to make sure
that that post went out and looked the way it did and made
(41:21):
the last minute correction that their CEO demanded, etcetera,
etcetera, etcetera. Talk to the company like you
were talking to the people in the company.
I have had so, so much of my success.
I have not, I have not. Like, it's not like I carved it
out of the rock with a pickaxe. Like I'm, I'm, I don't, I don't
(41:41):
like sweating, you know, I don't, I don't want to work
really hard on things that don'timmediately give me a sense of
joy as I'm working on them, right?
Efforting is not my way. But when I look back at any
success that I've had, I recognize it's because I have
allowed, I have allowed the connection that led to the
(42:06):
opportunity that led to the success.
And we all need to be, I think, working harder.
Not, you know, joke tongue in cheek.
We need to be working harder at allowing those connections to
happen. Yeah, 100%.
(42:26):
James, this has been a great episode.
I've really enjoyed this. Tell people where they can
connect with you. Where can they find you?
So it's a great example of not doing things the traditional
way. I started Lighthouse L&D
consulting because someone wanted to work with me and they
(42:47):
assumed and they assumed that they could because they figured
I had to be offering my servicesout as a consultant.
And so I immediately said, yes, that is exactly right.
And my company is called this and I will be happy to work with
you. And then I had to go create my
(43:09):
company. I had to create.
I had to create a presence. I had to create a brand.
I had to think about what I wanted to do.
Now, that isn't to say that two weeks prior to that, I hadn't
stood in my living room and saidto my amazing wife, Julie
Sherwood, that all the things that I was not going to do
anymore, the things I was not happy about, the things the box
(43:29):
I didn't want to put myself intoand what I did want.
I just did a tirade to the universe about what I want and
what I don't want. And that, in my opinion, is what
that was the door. That was the door that opened.
I opened it for myself. I said I'm going to allow myself
to believe that I can do what I want and not do the stuff I
(43:49):
don't want to do. And two weeks later, somebody's
reaching out to me, assuming I have a business and wanting to
pay me. Yeah, that's.
Awesome, so I don't have a website.
I still don't have a website. I've been doing this for 2 1/2
years and the only place that I ever the the where I like to
focus is LinkedIn. So I put all of my time and
energy on LinkedIn so people canfind me at my LinkedIn address,
(44:13):
which is basically the LinkedIn URL plus James we're.
Gonna have it. All OK.
Yeah. Yeah, it's all gonna be there
for you. So I'm so glad that you're out
of LinkedIn world. It, it, it, it's a great space.
It's, you know, some people kindof bashed on it, but I don't
know where I'd be without LinkedIn at this point in the
community and the support and all the people that are there.
(44:34):
I don't think I would truly be motivated to go and do these
things you're say doing like find your passions, don't do the
things you don't want to do, do the things you want to do.
It's just, it's so inspirational.
So thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your
experiences and talking with allthese different things about us.
I know the audience is like probably like, wow right now and
(44:57):
they want to come out and talk to you.
And everything will be in the show notes about how to connect
with James out on LinkedIn. And of course, if you have
questions, reach out to me, reach out to him.
We're happy to to support you ifyou're making this transition
into L&D. So, James, thanks so much for
coming on the show. My absolute pleasure.
Thank you for the questions. That's why I like to do podcasts
(45:20):
because I never know what I'm going to say and I don't know
what I think until I say it. So you've just given me more
clarity, which I love, and I just want to double down and
repeat what you just said to anyone listening to the show
you. What if you have a question?
If you feel like you should be closer to the answer than you
are, and you want to reach out to someone and get help, Holly
(45:43):
is an amazing person to talk to.I am happy to talk to you.
The field of L&D is full of generous people, and the only
thing standing between you and getting those answers is your
willingness to ask for the help that you need.
Absolutely, absolutely. Well said.
Thanks, Holly. Hi, we're Ice Spring, an
international team of e-learningenthusiasts who help more than
(46:05):
60,000 clients across the globe succeed with better online
learning. Our two flagship solutions are
ispring Suite and ispring Learn LMS.
Ispring Suite is an intuitive, all in
(46:29):
Go to www.ispringsolutions.com to learn more about us and
connect. Thanks for spending a few
minutes with Holly. She knows your podcast queue is
packed. If today's episode sparked an
idea or gave you that extra nudge of confidence, tap, follow
or subscribe in your favorite app so you never miss an episode
of Ed Up L&D. Dropping a quick rating or
(46:52):
review helps more educators and learning pros discover the show,
too. Want to keep the conversation
going? Connect with Holly on LinkedIn
and share your biggest take awayshe reads.
Every message. Until next time, keep learning,
keep leading, and keep believingin your own story.
Talk soon.
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