August 13, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode of Ed Up L&D, host Holly Owens interviews Josh Czupryk, the creator of the K-12 job board blast. They discuss Josh's journey from teaching to entrepreneurship, the challenges educators face when transitioning careers, and the importance of quantifying experiences in resumes. Josh shares insights on the current education landscape, opportunities for teachers in L&D and EdTech, and practical advice for job seekers and aspiring entrepreneurs.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Guest Contact Information:
- LinkedIn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey, hey, friends, and welcome to another epic episode of NFL
and D I'm your host, Holly Owens, and today's guest has
been taking over the LinkedIn world in the best way possible.
I've been watching, not stalking.
I promise the incredible work he's been doing building one of
the most impactful K to 12 job boards out there, sharing no
(00:24):
fluff advice, and helping thousands of educators navigate
what's navigate what's next. I'm thrilled to welcome Josh
Zuberk to the show. You may know him as the creator
of the K to 12 Job Board Blast, A resource that's gone from a
humble Google Doc to a viral LinkedIn phenomenon with over
(00:45):
53,000 followers is probably more than that, and 12,000
subscribers and counting. In this episode, Josh keeps it
100% as we dig into the hard truths and hopeful turns of
career transition from burnout and guilt to resume strategy, AI
tools, and why it's totally OK to walk away from the classroom
(01:07):
and into something that aligns with your whole self.
Plus, we talk entrepreneurship, hiring tips and yes, why your
resume shouldn't look like a Canva template exploded.
Josh brings the fire, the facts,and the empathy, reminding us
that teachers absolutely have what it takes to pivot, build,
(01:29):
and lead. Get ready for real talk,
actionable tips, and the encouragement you didn't know
you needed. Hi, we're Ice Spring, an
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(01:51):
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We also provide tons of free resources for aspiring and
(02:12):
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We'd be happy to get to know youand pick a solution that fits
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(02:37):
Hello everyone, and welcome to another fantastic episode of Ed
Up L&D. I'm Holly Owens and I'm your
host and I am super pumped. So excited for the guests that I
have here today. I have it.
Josh Zubrick, did I say that right?
You did and he has entered the chat.
Welcome Josh. I.
(02:59):
Appreciate the invite. I'm really.
Excited to get into all things I've been watching you, I don't
want to say stalking you, but watching you on LinkedIn world
doing all the amazing things you're doing with your your K12
job class, having your business,all your education experience.
But before we dive into all that, tell us your story.
Who are you? How did you start?
(03:20):
You know your career, all the different things We want to know
more about you. Sure.
So I can typically do this in one minute or less.
So I'm going to time myself. But I was born and raised in the
Florida Panhandle. Both of my parents were teachers
for over 40 years. My dad is actually in his 70s
(03:40):
and entering his 47th year this fall.
So I got some lifelong educators.
Absolutely. I went to the University of
Florida. I did not do anything with
education. I went to the College of
Journalism and I wanted to do public relations before my
(04:01):
senior year. I did an internship on Capitol
Hill in a Senate office doing press stuff, and I hated every
moment of it. And that really just, like,
knocked me off my horse. And so when I got back for my
senior year, I joked that I wenton a date with a girl, but
(04:22):
beforehand, she wanted to stop by and grab pizza from an
organization called Teach for America.
She didn't end up applying. And I like watched the video
transparently. My sister was in Teach for
America and I had no idea what my sister was doing.
And then like watching the marketing video, I like started
crying. It's not like the Sarah
(04:44):
McLachlan animal one, is it? I mean, it was close and I just
was like, well, maybe, you know,maybe this will give me two
years, right? And then I can kind of figure
out grad school or law school, you know, like I'll figure
something out. So you get in, you do your two
years doing Teach for America. For people who aren't familiar,
(05:04):
they recruit you to do 2 years in an underserved community
teaching. I got my license and then I was
like, why would I ever not do education so quick?
Evolution. I coached teachers for a few
years. I worked for some charter school
networks doing data. I actually missed being close to
(05:26):
the classroom, so I went back tobeing an assistant principal,
quickly rose up, skipped the principal seat and became a
principal manager, and then wrapped up the last nine years
being some iteration of an assistant Superintendent, both
at charter school networks and then most recently at a school
district. So for the 18 years, seen the
(05:48):
classroom level, seen the assistant principal level, seen
the district office level, seen the senior leader level and
bring all of that to what I do right now.
Very brief origin of the jobs blast was three years ago.
About 3 1/2 years ago, I wanted to leave charter school world
and I had gotten to the point love charter schools, so many
(06:12):
charter schools on my board, bigfan work with a number of them.
But I had burned out. And so from the moment I knew I
wanted to leave to the moment that I had, my offer to be an
assistant Superintendent at Tennessee's number 2 school
district in the country or in the state was 4 weeks.
OK, wow. And I wasn't.
(06:36):
I was not alone. I feel like people sometimes
move through job searches with like cohorts of friends that are
also job searching. And my friends were taking a lot
longer. And when I took a step back and
realized I am a straight passingwhite man and my friends were
really talented black women, andI realized there were these
(06:57):
invisible doors opening up for me and these invisible kind of
privilege, right? But that is the word we use for
it. But that was totally working in
my advantage. And what I realized was my
friends didn't have the same perspective to see what all was
out there. Yeah.
So the first job last was not a Google Sheet.
(07:19):
It was a Google Doc where I had just copied and pasted roles
from Teach for America in TNTP and the achievement Network,
like all these nonprofits, and was like, hey, just start
applying here, Right. And two weeks later, I copied
and pasted it again. Two weeks later, I copied.
And then they would say, can I share this with somebody?
(07:41):
September. It became a spreadsheet March of
that year. It became a website and a
spreadsheet. So it really did, to your point,
just organically take off and now it.
Went viral. If you went viral, that's what
happened. I went viral.
So there are 12,500 subscribers,it's free to subscribe and there
(08:03):
are 53,000 followers on LinkedIn.
So to your point, like word caught on.
I love and I love that that happened for you because it's so
it's so much valuable information and like you really
bring the different, not a different perspective, but you
understand K to the 12 and you understand it in a way that, you
know, I've been out of the K to 12 game for.
(08:24):
I don't even want to say becauseit's going to date me since
2011. And you know, but still the same
things kind of exist in that industry, like you're talking
about burnout and people just looking to do different things.
I think one of the things I'll mention and, you know, ask you
about is there's often this sense of guilt shifting to
something else for transitioningteachers, you know, maybe in
(08:48):
combination with that imposter syndrome.
And then on top of that, you have to kind of deal with the
trauma of leaving the classroom.I remember my first time out of
the classroom and I also coachedfield hockey is that I was I was
crying in the fall, I was cryingfor field hockey season.
I missed the I missed the gals, I missed the students.
I was like, my God, what that I do and I make a mistake.
(09:10):
But one of the things I want to ask you is like, how do you
think it's best to deal with allthat or even talk about your own
experiences coming out of K to 12?
Yeah. So first, just directly, I think
it comes from a sense of patriarchal sexism.
I think that we associate guilt with leaving professions,
(09:31):
specifically around teaching andnursing.
Those are the two that immediately come to mind.
And there's a great book called Teacher Wars, and I would
encourage everybody to read it. It's going to.
Be on the show notes now. It's and it's, I read it about
once every year to two years. And I read it when I was getting
my masters in 2016 and it blew my mind.
(09:53):
But it's essentially about the history of teaching and the fact
that we expected women to be teachers and men to be
superintendents from like the 1600s.
And that is the origin of America.
We do not give superintendents and assistants, superintendents,
guilt for leaving their roles. And they have higher turnover
(10:14):
than we do as teachers. I'm saying we, I started my
career, I recognize as the assistant Superintendent.
I mean, it is that we, we are part of that community for life,
honestly. But we don't give
superintendents and assistants superintendents guilt.
We don't give them guilt when they leave to go be consultants.
No one's giving me guilt, not a single person's giving me guilt
for going out on my own. But we do get teachers skill.
(10:37):
Oh, you should do it for the kids.
And I'm not saying that we aren't right to this profession
because of a mission driven foundation, but that is not an
excuse for gaslighting for poor conditions or poor pay.
And so I think until systems respond with the working
conditions that will attract andretain people, no one should
feel guilt about doing what is right for them.
(10:58):
Oh. My gosh, that's well said.
And I think you're right. I totally agree with you.
I felt so bad. I felt so bad, like I'd let
people down and I'd let myself down because I committed to
saying that that was what I was going to do for life.
And then I there was a shift or a change and I fell in love with
Ed tech in training. So it's what happened and it's
(11:20):
OK. You just saved me a bunch of
money on therapy. Just pointing that out.
But I think, I think it's so important for people to remember
at the end of the day. And again, I'm going to date
myself. I just turned 40.
But my parents, you know, but and so, but our parents
generation, you know, my parentshave taught for over 40 years
(11:44):
and they were with the same district that entire time.
They also had pensions. They also had tenure, they had
the policies and the practices in place to reward people to
stay for long extensive periods,right.
Districts and charters now have at will employment.
There is No 10 year and you have4 O1 KS typically or much
(12:08):
smaller pension benefits. So the financial structures and
policies that people approach the teaching physics profession
with, it's different now. And so I, I just, whenever
anybody messages me feeling shame or guilt, I'm like, your
employer will feel 0 shame or guilt about conducting a riff or
a reduction in force. And so feel free to be as loyal
(12:33):
as you feel you ethically and morally should be.
And my encouragement is to always have irons in the fire,
have an updated resume, and knowwhere you might go next.
Yeah, that's great advice. Absolutely.
You know, we're seeing a lot of transitioning teachers coming
into the L&D industry. That's like there's a place for
(12:53):
them in instructional design, instructional technology, Ed
tech, customer success, all those different things.
What's your take on that? You, you, you see a lot of
different jobs, you see a lot ofdifferent postings.
We all, you know, I do job postings too.
But what's your take on like, how teachers can, you know,
transition into these roles and feel comfortable doing so?
(13:15):
100% So I think you're 100% right about instructional
design. I will say just being really
timely that because that the title funding who's been
suspended or I guess they've just released it today is the
22nd rate. And I, we don't know the status
(13:35):
of federal funding, but because we don't know it, neither do
chief financial officers and charter school networks and
school districts and they are spending significantly less
money expecting Title 3 reimbursement, which is what you
give for professional development than we had before.
So exactly what you said, Holly,about customer success in sales.
(13:59):
I'm seeing more customer successin sales positions than I am
instructional design positions. I'm not seeing a full drop off
in instructional design, but revenue generating from per
pupil funds, right? Like you're going to need to
have some type of a reading or math program in an elementary
(14:21):
school classroom for reading rotations.
You got to have it. And if that means you spend per
pupil money on it, it means you spend per pupil money.
The professional development youhave at the beginning of the
year where you pay somebody to come in or bring in a nonprofit
to do an instructional design review, important.
We're not saying it's not important and we're not saying
it's not a priority. But if you only have so many
(14:42):
dollars and the federal funds have stopped, it may not be as
priority. Yeah, this is this is similar to
last summer. I remember pulling the data and
I'll say like one thing that I think makes me and my hero
Chelsea, who runs EDSKIP, She like I, I talk everybody.
(15:02):
I tell everybody too, I, I've, I've start from the beginning.
I've been in an air with Chelsea.
I love, so I tell everybody likefollow.
So I think what we bring is she has her PhD, I'm almost wrapped
up with my EDD and we bring thisdata analysis piece of like when
we're looking at the jobs, it's we're not just sharing them, but
we're like, here are the trends.Here's what we're seeing with
(15:24):
salaries. Here's what we're seeing with
postings. Last June, I saw this spike in
fundraising and development roles at nonprofits and at
charter school networks. I mean, we're talking like 30 to
90 roles in a month. And I was like, how could that
happen? Well, the stimulus was ending
(15:44):
with all of the money that was going to schools.
And so people were immediately replacing them with fundraising
teams to replace the stimulus money, right?
And I think teachers number one again, imposter syndrome, doubt
themselves. But you know, you manage 30
(16:05):
client relationships a year if you're in elementary school with
families and upwards to 120 to 150 in middle or high school
period, you call them customer relationships.
If you have them for multiple years, you have enduring
customer relationships. Multi year two way customer
relationships. We have attendance data.
(16:25):
If attendance data has gotten better, you built a strong
culture and climate that has increased this metric.
If you have, you know, growth data on N.W.A map or I ready or
any type of a norm reference assessment, you can show, hey,
when I focus and build instructional design or
implement high quality instructional materials, we see
(16:46):
the X percent of students grow Xpercent of way.
You know, but I think teachers are so shy at times because we
are, we drill them in this country to be shy about
quantifying that the way I feel like you pivot and translate is
you quantify. I think that's a great point.
And and also too, I think the one thing we've also from that
(17:08):
perspective in terms like testing numbers, I taught a
status of course. So everything that my whole
performance was based off of like what my students did.
So at the time, I, I really didn't understand the data and
how important it was to kind of understand it.
So I think it's an important point to make that that it's OK
to quantify that and, you know, use that in your professional
(17:31):
materials. 100%. If if you are transitioning out
of the classroom into a a corporate environment per SE,
let's say that you have, you understand that that data
analytics are important ROI, OK,Rs all the different things.
So that's a good point. The biggest thing I always push
people on is some people send meand I'll periodically say, hey,
(17:52):
send me your resumes. You've probably seen it on
LinkedIn, right? I'll look at your resume.
Part of that is a qualitative analysis for me.
So it works for me. Like I'm going to give you 15 to
32nd review and very quick high points.
But what's really helpful is I start to see trends of okay,
people are leaving out data or okay, people are like, the
bullet points are way too long, right?
(18:13):
And so, so instructional design,iterative processing, right?
Like, let me help people. Let me take all this
information, boil it down and give people a cognitive
framework that they can leveragein order to produce a good
resume coming out of the classroom.
I've run searches. I've run 20 searches so far this
(18:33):
year where I am hiring people for organizations.
When I look at resumes, I have to see evidence that I can move
you to a phone screen and if youare not going to provide me
evidence, I don't have the evidence to say you are able to
do this instructional design or customer success role.
(18:54):
Bon Jovi, we're not halfway there and living on a prayer.
That's it. And so, and I think like just
letting people know you're goingto get 15 to 30 seconds.
I think more, I think more companies do human screening of
resumes than people realize. I think people think it's all
AII think AI plays a part. And I'm sure there are bad
actors, but most places have committed to you will get seen
(19:17):
by a human, but they have to seesomething within 15 to 30
seconds that says I can move youto the. 15 to 30 seconds I think
I told people like they only read like the first third of it.
If I can find what I need withinthe first third I advance.
I will spend and go through the whole thing if I can't find it
(19:38):
because I just am like what if it was in another role?
You know, like. Because everybody structures it
so differently. Well, that leads me to the
question then, like if, if that's your person, people take
15 to 30 seconds to to kind of look at the resume.
How do people set that up appropriately to people always
ask me, and I'm sure you get this too, because you do the
resume reviews. How do I stand out?
(20:00):
There's thousands and thousands of Athens.
How do I stand out with this 15 to 30 second thing, which is not
quick if you're doing like a situps or some sort of gender
routine, But if you're you're looking to, you know, impress
somebody, what is how did they do that in that?
First off, the field hockey coach, I appreciate the exercise
for the second one. Sports.
(20:22):
So it's all sports here. #2 I think there's a few things I
think I, it's very rare that I see like the secret job market,
right? Where like there's a secret role
created or posted for Holly because we want, you know, like
now I think that people's networking connections can help
(20:42):
them stand out. I do think like messaging every
single hiring manager on LinkedIn is probably more
annoying than it is helpful. I just want to be transparent
with people, right? I think replying I'm interested
on somebody's posts that they'rehiring doesn't help.
(21:05):
I think writing a strong, succinct, clear and concise
resume helps. And so we'll put it in the show
notes, but I have a free template that you've probably
seen. It's definitely going to.
Yep, I've seen all these things.Take the free template.
Take your resume, put them both into ChatGPT, grok or clod,
whatever your you know, choice AI is say take this template,
(21:27):
take what I have translate it right, Tell me where there are
gaps and it will right. And then I think that and then
what I would do is I'd take whatever you have produced at
the end and say now cut the words down to exactly what is
minimum needed because if somebody's I need.
To go do this. But if somebody's eyes can't
(21:49):
glide over your resume and pull out what they need and and Oh my
gosh, y'all, the formatting in Europe is expected that you use
a profile picture. It just is in America, I would
almost say it's not inappropriate to use a profile
picture, but it's going to causemore recruiters to say why did
(22:09):
they, you know, like why did they put a picture or a headshot
on their resume? So my my advice is don't make it
overly fancy. Make the content good.
This is just like instructional design.
I don't need a big publishers pretty textbook.
See, I didn't want to name a bigpublisher there.
I'm just like, let me check myself.
But I don't need a big publishers pretty textbook if I
(22:31):
can go on and I'm just going to give like Eureka Math or
extrajudiciary learnings, open source, high quality
instruction, right? I don't need to buy the pretty
textbook. I can go get really high quality
stuff for free, right? And same with the recruiter.
I don't need that really pretty PDF with all the colors.
Like I just need something that tells me you can do the job.
(22:52):
100% it's like, it's like havinga conversation where you're
having a story being told. And my grandfather does this.
He tells you every single solitary detail of the story.
So when I call him every day, it's 10 to 15 minutes of him
telling me exactly what he did throughout his day and all the
points of it. I love him.
He's going to be 85 this week. Yeah.
(23:13):
But for us, it's like, this is like, get to the point.
And I also say, too, and I don'tknow if you agree with this,
Josh, is that the resume is a very static document.
It has no personality in it whatsoever.
It's just, like, boring. It's cumbersome.
So like what you're saying, the content has to be, like, what
we're looking for. But also, too, I would tell
people, you know, working with clients in the past, like,
(23:35):
record a video about yourself, like, put a link to a video in
there so they can just, like, get a little.
Hello. I'm Holly, you know, I, I do a
podcast and all this different stuff.
I'm looking for, you know, just something quick that doesn't
necessarily. Can 20 to 30 seconds yeah right.
Like and so I did I gave a job seeker that so the reason the
LinkedIn thing came up is somebody messaged me a couple
(23:56):
days ago and said am I hoping orhurting myself by messaging
every hiring manager I said you're hurting yourself period.
I said, now what you could do issay, hey, thank you for posting
this. I applied.
So excited to go through the process like that is so
important because I very rarely do I find an organization that
(24:18):
hasn't built some type of a hiring process.
And if you're saying I want to skip the line the same way
people would Boo you at Disney World if you tried to skip the
line, people are going to Boo you in a Disney World.
I know, I know my audience. I know my and so I think.
I want a fast pass right now. Lightning Lightning Lane.
(24:39):
The the lightning lane thing in it in in it in it.
Is, so it's complex in itself. Anyways, that's another
conversation. But it's so presumptuous, right?
And I think it is a turn off forhiring managers and recruiters,
right? But here's what you can say.
You can say thank you for posting this.
I'm so excited. I applied.
I'm excited to go through the process.
(25:00):
I'm just messaging so you have access to my LinkedIn where My
Portfolio is in case you have any further questions.
Yeah, I love that. Now we'll do it to everybody.
Don't. No, no, don't.
Yeah, no, no, no, no, I don't. You know what?
And that's the thing too, is like there's something to be
said about like the what's in itfor me conversation.
(25:24):
And that that gives them like you're, you're messaging them,
you're giving that you're creating visibility, you're
making yourself, quote UN quote,stand out a little bit.
You're also giving them access to your professional materials.
But the other thing too is I think that people all too often,
they don't read people's experiences in their profiles
and they automatically, I'm sureyou've gotten this, they send
(25:46):
you something and they're like, review this for me.
They say, they don't even say hianymore.
There's no pleasantries whatsoever.
It's just like, do this for me and I'm like, hi, I'm Holly.
I've been in this game for how many years I've, you know.
Yeah. Yeah.
And like, OK, I don't. I'm happy to do like a free
(26:07):
coffee chat, but you have to payme for my services if I'm
offering you some of my time. I can't stress people enough
that just simply just saying what you need is not going to
get you anywhere. It's going to get you a block
and no more. We're not a connection.
That's 100. Yeah, I think it is people.
I think society has become so transactional and we are all so
(26:32):
used to having our own personal algorithmic feed and everything
is catered to us that we then forget how to interact with
other humans, especially in a job search.
So I love your advice and I really do think it is how can I
offer value in this exact message and in my resume?
How can I offer the value long term to this organization?
(26:55):
Yes. I will also say for people who
are freaking out about only being at jobs three to four
years, right, that's kind of thenorm now, right?
So that was my other piece of advice was I get this all the
time of like, should I stay for 10 years?
I'm like, I don't know if you like your job, like if you like
(27:16):
your job and you feel like you're doing great work, stay
and if you. Don't like a relationship?
Why are you staying in it? Just as saying it, I feel like,
I feel like there's a lot of correlation between online
dating and getting jobs today. I was going to use a Tinder
reference where I'm like, yeah, all of my friends who share and
I'm like, oh God, that sounds like think dad, you know, like,
(27:37):
no, like block, block, swipe, whichever way you're supposed to
swipe to get them to go away. But that's where my fiance and I
met. I swiped right and I.
Was like, so it's right. OK, right is good, left is bad.
Don't do left right like people people don't do things that are
going to make a recruiter or a hiring manager go left right.
(27:59):
And if you say like review my resume, I'm your next person.
I, I like see this and again, people are meaning to be
well-intentioned and people don't think about this like you,
me or Chelsea do, where we're thinking about it every day.
And so when you jump into the hiring market, like, please just
take our advice, right? Humility and value will take you
further than trying to jump the line or you know, like, and I
(28:24):
promise I'll leave with this. You've mentioned thousands of
applicants. There are 100%.
I work with clients that truly get thousands of applicants.
It happens, right? I'm also working with clients on
how do you post your role in a way that it gets in front of
(28:45):
your niche audience, right? Like maybe you're on Chelsea,
maybe you're on. There's another side of this.
Because I've run a few searches where as an experiment, I just
put up an ad on LinkedIn and I got flooded with applicants.
But they were 5 to 10% were actually certified for the role
(29:05):
that we were posting 'cause it was a principal rule, right?
And probably 50%, Holly didn't have experience at all on K12,
right? And they were looking for a job.
And because there was the quick apply, we don't need quick
apply, right? So I've been advising people,
especially who are hiring for remote roles, don't do quick
apply. Ask 3 to 4 written questions,
(29:27):
right? Make the transaction cost higher
so that way you have a higher likelihood of getting people who
can demonstrate they have the skills as opposed to people who
are just jumping in. Yeah, Oh God, that's great
advice for the people who are posting the jobs too.
So you've given the advice for people who are applying to the
jobs and now people who are posting the jobs.
I think once it, you know, the reason I jumped into this stuff
(29:48):
is because it feels like a game to me.
You're up in the 80s and the 90swith Mario and all that
different stuff. It feels like I'm trying to
figure out the right formula here.
And I think people all too oftenthey, if they run into a block,
they just stop. Or there.
There, there. There's some kind of excuse
there as to why they're not going to push forward.
So I think finding the right formula is something I like to
(30:09):
help people do, and I think that's what you like to do as
well. So it's good.
That's refreshing to tell. And especially like the job
postings. I love it when they list what is
the interview process like? Tell me the steps.
So I feel like I'm not going to be in six rounds of interviews.
This happened to me. They had me on the hook as a
second person and they're stringing me along and they make
(30:31):
me do a project and then they tell me I'm not the person.
Well, and so I would actually have shared that in, you know,
spoiler alert, if you follow me on LinkedIn, you know, I'm very
openly autistic, right? Like, and I'm very open about
it. But when I do a search and when
I do a phone screen and say, hey, welcome to the second round
of the interview process, right?You're in the phone screen.
(30:54):
The 1st 5 minutes we're going totalk about the logistics of the
search. I'm going to give you all of the
dates of each of the rounds. I'm going to tell you when
you're going to hear by now I will say I don't give feedback
because quite frankly, my insurance company said don't
give feedback, right? And I was like this.
But what I have started doing isif people are finalists, I'll do
(31:15):
a coffee chat exactly to what you said, where I'm like, hey,
the client, what was somebody else on this one?
But if you want to chat about what else is out there,
etcetera, right, I'll chat with you.
Totally optional, right? Not forced.
But to your point, people, I feel like shine so much better
when you take the cognitive load.
And again, going back to instructional design and theory.
(31:36):
But if I can take the cognitive load off at the beginning of an
interview to tell you exactly when you're going to hear and
how many rounds there are going to be, you can then shine and
tell me why you're the right fitand you can go through the
scenarios. I feel like this whole episode
was just advice. I don't know if we need to do
the well, actually you're an entrepreneur.
(31:57):
So there's there's people like we, we talk a lot about the norm
of transitioning teachers going into L&D, going into
instructional design, all that, all that stuff.
But what if somebody wants to start their own business?
What if somebody wants to do what you're doing?
Is there three pieces of advice?You get people who are like, I
want to do my own thing. Yeah.
What should they do? Number one, I will say that I am
(32:19):
really lucky that I have a partner who has a salary because
it is really steady. And so if you're going to jump
into entrepreneurial life, you got to understand the ebbs and
flows of cash flow because you'll run into a lot of cash
and then you'll run into no cash.
It's not salary. You're not getting the same
amount predictably every two weeks or twice a month.
OK. So that's number one is if you
(32:40):
can wrap your brain around cash flow, you're already winning #2
understanding the logistics of becoming an entrepreneur.
So that means understanding getting A5O1C37, not a 5O1C3
getting a 1099, you know, sole proprietorship LLC set up so
you're able to get paid. Getting a business banking
(33:02):
account. Don't take checks in your
personal. So that way if you ever get
audited or sued, it goes to the bank account.
You don't have to get it, but errors and admissions insurance,
I use The Hartford for that. Like very easy.
Now they're gonna give you ruleslike what I mentioned earlier of
like, yeah, yeah, you may like at the bottom of my like where
you can add rules. I had to put a disclaimer like
(33:24):
this does not guarantee you willhire somebody.
And I was like, really? And the insurance company was
like, yes, like really, you needto get an invoicing system, But
they're they're all out there. I'm super open about it and I'll
try to do a post on LinkedIn. I think you should I.
Think that'd be very helpful. I I was checking off the list in
my head that I've done all thesethings, but I may have been
(33:45):
missing something. Who knows?
There's this, there's it's so convoluted being a small
business owner and trying to find the resources of where to
do stuff and what's anyways that's that's a conversation
obviously for another day, but Iappreciate that advice.
Just keep it simple. Make sure you're following the
rules, setting up the the stuff that you need in order to be
successful in your business. And you know what teachers, you
(34:06):
can totally do it. You can totally do it.
There's no like, I think sometimes teachers are like, I
just I, I can only be a teacher.That's all I know how to do.
Not true. There's I will tell you talk.
About that. The last advice he'll give a
teacher is when I think about a senior leadership role, they
would be a wonderful chief academic officer in a charter
(34:28):
net worth or district. I'm not saying they would.
They would also be such a good chief of staff because so many
chief of staff roles are GSD roles, which is what we say get
stuff done. And there's another S word you
can use. But like teachers just get stuff
done. They think about what is the
most efficient, lowest transaction cost, highest value
(34:49):
way that I can just get to this goal because that's what they do
in the classroom. And if you want to leave being
able to be again, exactly as youmentioned, a customer success
person, an instructional design person and operations person.
When you can speak K12, you haveopened up for that nonprofit or
that edtech company to have an in in the market with the
(35:10):
customers because you speak the language.
So have confidence I. Love it.
We're going to end there. There's going to be everything
in the show notes because this has honestly been a very
enlightening, engaging episode and and talking with you is just
reaffirming some of the things that we consistently share out
of LinkedIn world. And we're not just we're not BS
ING here. We're really sharing real
(35:31):
advice. So Josh, thank you so much for
coming on the show and sharing that and everything to find Josh
K to 12 job blasts. All the different things are all
going to be in the show notes. So please go there.
Please connect with Josh on LinkedIn.
Can't thank you enough friend for coming on the show and
chatting with me. Absolutely, Holly.
Thanks for the invite. Thanks for spending a few
(35:52):
minutes with Holly. She knows your podcast queue is
packed. If today's episode sparked an
idea or gave you that extra nudge of confidence, tap, follow
or subscribe in your favorite app so you never miss an episode
of Ed Up L&D. Dropping a quick rating or
review helps more educators and learning pros discover the show,
too. Want to keep the conversation
(36:13):
going? Connect with Holly on LinkedIn
and share your biggest take away.
She reads every message. Until next time, keep learning,
keep leading, and keep believingin your own story.
Talk soon. Hi, we're ispring, an
international team of e-learningenthusiasts who help more than
60,000 clients across the globe succeed with better online
(36:34):
learning. Our two flagship solutions are
ispring Suite and ispring Learn LMS.
Ispring Suite is an intuitive all in one authoring tool for
creating engaging e-learning content, while ispringlearn is
an innovative online training platform for onboarding,
upskilling, and certifying your teams.
We'd be happy to get to know youand pick a solution that fits
your needs best. Go to www.icepringsolutions.com
(36:57):
to learn more about us and connect.
Hey, hey, friends, and welcome to another epic episode of NFL
and D I'm your host, Holly Owens, and today's guest has
been taking over the LinkedIn world in the best way possible.
I've been watching, not stalking.
I promise the incredible work he's been doing building one of
the most impactful K to 12 job boards out there, sharing no
(00:24):
fluff advice, and helping thousands of educators navigate
what's navigate what's next. I'm thrilled to welcome Josh
Zuberk to the show. You may know him as the creator
of the K to 12 Job Board Blast, A resource that's gone from a
humble Google Doc to a viral LinkedIn phenomenon with over
(00:45):
53,000 followers is probably more than that, and 12,000
subscribers and counting. In this episode, Josh keeps it
100% as we dig into the hard truths and hopeful turns of
career transition from burnout and guilt to resume strategy, AI
tools, and why it's totally OK to walk away from the classroom
(01:07):
and into something that aligns with your whole self.
Plus, we talk entrepreneurship, hiring tips and yes, why your
resume shouldn't look like a Canva template exploded.
Josh brings the fire, the facts,and the empathy, reminding us
that teachers absolutely have what it takes to pivot, build,
(01:29):
and lead. Get ready for real talk,
actionable tips, and the encouragement you didn't know
you needed. Hi, we're Ice Spring, an
international team of e-learningenthusiasts who help more than
60,000 clients across the globe succeed with better online
learning. Our two flagship solutions are
(01:51):
ispring Suite and ispring Learn LMS.
Ispring Suite is an intuitive, all in one authoring tool for
creating engaging elearning content, and ispringlearn is an
innovative online training platform for onboarding,
upskilling, and certifying your teams.
We also provide tons of free resources for aspiring and
(02:12):
experienced e-learning professionals, conduct weekly
webinars with top industry experts, and organize annual
e-learning conferences, challenges, and championships.
We'd be happy to get to know youand pick a solution that fits
your needs best. Go to www.icebringsolutions.com
to learn more about us, downloadour resources and connect.
(02:37):
Hello everyone, and welcome to another fantastic episode of Ed
Up L&D. I'm Holly Owens and I'm your
host and I am super pumped. So excited for the guests that I
have here today. I have it.
Josh Zubrick, did I say that right?
You did and he has entered the chat.
Welcome Josh. I.
(02:59):
Appreciate the invite. I'm really.
Excited to get into all things I've been watching you, I don't
want to say stalking you, but watching you on LinkedIn world
doing all the amazing things you're doing with your your K12
job class, having your business,all your education experience.
But before we dive into all that, tell us your story.
Who are you? How did you start?
(03:20):
You know your career, all the different things We want to know
more about you. Sure.
So I can typically do this in one minute or less.
So I'm going to time myself. But I was born and raised in the
Florida Panhandle. Both of my parents were teachers
for over 40 years. My dad is actually in his 70s
(03:40):
and entering his 47th year this fall.
So I got some lifelong educators.
Absolutely. I went to the University of
Florida. I did not do anything with
education. I went to the College of
Journalism and I wanted to do public relations before my
(04:01):
senior year. I did an internship on Capitol
Hill in a Senate office doing press stuff, and I hated every
moment of it. And that really just, like,
knocked me off my horse. And so when I got back for my
senior year, I joked that I wenton a date with a girl, but
(04:22):
beforehand, she wanted to stop by and grab pizza from an
organization called Teach for America.
She didn't end up applying. And I like watched the video
transparently. My sister was in Teach for
America and I had no idea what my sister was doing.
And then like watching the marketing video, I like started
crying. It's not like the Sarah
(04:44):
McLachlan animal one, is it? I mean, it was close and I just
was like, well, maybe, you know,maybe this will give me two
years, right? And then I can kind of figure
out grad school or law school, you know, like I'll figure
something out. So you get in, you do your two
years doing Teach for America. For people who aren't familiar,
(05:04):
they recruit you to do 2 years in an underserved community
teaching. I got my license and then I was
like, why would I ever not do education so quick?
Evolution. I coached teachers for a few
years. I worked for some charter school
networks doing data. I actually missed being close to
(05:26):
the classroom, so I went back tobeing an assistant principal,
quickly rose up, skipped the principal seat and became a
principal manager, and then wrapped up the last nine years
being some iteration of an assistant Superintendent, both
at charter school networks and then most recently at a school
district. So for the 18 years, seen the
(05:48):
classroom level, seen the assistant principal level, seen
the district office level, seen the senior leader level and
bring all of that to what I do right now.
Very brief origin of the jobs blast was three years ago.
About 3 1/2 years ago, I wanted to leave charter school world
and I had gotten to the point love charter schools, so many
(06:12):
charter schools on my board, bigfan work with a number of them.
But I had burned out. And so from the moment I knew I
wanted to leave to the moment that I had, my offer to be an
assistant Superintendent at Tennessee's number 2 school
district in the country or in the state was 4 weeks.
OK, wow. And I wasn't.
(06:36):
I was not alone. I feel like people sometimes
move through job searches with like cohorts of friends that are
also job searching. And my friends were taking a lot
longer. And when I took a step back and
realized I am a straight passingwhite man and my friends were
really talented black women, andI realized there were these
(06:57):
invisible doors opening up for me and these invisible kind of
privilege, right? But that is the word we use for
it. But that was totally working in
my advantage. And what I realized was my
friends didn't have the same perspective to see what all was
out there. Yeah.
So the first job last was not a Google Sheet.
(07:19):
It was a Google Doc where I had just copied and pasted roles
from Teach for America in TNTP and the achievement Network,
like all these nonprofits, and was like, hey, just start
applying here, Right. And two weeks later, I copied
and pasted it again. Two weeks later, I copied.
And then they would say, can I share this with somebody?
(07:41):
September. It became a spreadsheet March of
that year. It became a website and a
spreadsheet. So it really did, to your point,
just organically take off and now it.
Went viral. If you went viral, that's what
happened. I went viral.
So there are 12,500 subscribers,it's free to subscribe and there
(08:03):
are 53,000 followers on LinkedIn.
So to your point, like word caught on.
I love and I love that that happened for you because it's so
it's so much valuable information and like you really
bring the different, not a different perspective, but you
understand K to the 12 and you understand it in a way that, you
know, I've been out of the K to 12 game for.
(08:24):
I don't even want to say becauseit's going to date me since
2011. And you know, but still the same
things kind of exist in that industry, like you're talking
about burnout and people just looking to do different things.
I think one of the things I'll mention and, you know, ask you
about is there's often this sense of guilt shifting to
something else for transitioningteachers, you know, maybe in
(08:48):
combination with that imposter syndrome.
And then on top of that, you have to kind of deal with the
trauma of leaving the classroom.I remember my first time out of
the classroom and I also coachedfield hockey is that I was I was
crying in the fall, I was cryingfor field hockey season.
I missed the I missed the gals, I missed the students.
I was like, my God, what that I do and I make a mistake.
(09:10):
But one of the things I want to ask you is like, how do you
think it's best to deal with allthat or even talk about your own
experiences coming out of K to 12?
Yeah. So first, just directly, I think
it comes from a sense of patriarchal sexism.
I think that we associate guilt with leaving professions,
(09:31):
specifically around teaching andnursing.
Those are the two that immediately come to mind.
And there's a great book called Teacher Wars, and I would
encourage everybody to read it. It's going to.
Be on the show notes now. It's and it's, I read it about
once every year to two years. And I read it when I was getting
my masters in 2016 and it blew my mind.
(09:53):
But it's essentially about the history of teaching and the fact
that we expected women to be teachers and men to be
superintendents from like the 1600s.
And that is the origin of America.
We do not give superintendents and assistants, superintendents,
guilt for leaving their roles. And they have higher turnover
(10:14):
than we do as teachers. I'm saying we, I started my
career, I recognize as the assistant Superintendent.
I mean, it is that we, we are part of that community for life,
honestly. But we don't give
superintendents and assistants superintendents guilt.
We don't give them guilt when they leave to go be consultants.
No one's giving me guilt, not a single person's giving me guilt
for going out on my own. But we do get teachers skill.
(10:37):
Oh, you should do it for the kids.
And I'm not saying that we aren't right to this profession
because of a mission driven foundation, but that is not an
excuse for gaslighting for poor conditions or poor pay.
And so I think until systems respond with the working
conditions that will attract andretain people, no one should
feel guilt about doing what is right for them.
(10:58):
Oh. My gosh, that's well said.
And I think you're right. I totally agree with you.
I felt so bad. I felt so bad, like I'd let
people down and I'd let myself down because I committed to
saying that that was what I was going to do for life.
And then I there was a shift or a change and I fell in love with
Ed tech in training. So it's what happened and it's
(11:20):
OK. You just saved me a bunch of
money on therapy. Just pointing that out.
But I think, I think it's so important for people to remember
at the end of the day. And again, I'm going to date
myself. I just turned 40.
But my parents, you know, but and so, but our parents
generation, you know, my parentshave taught for over 40 years
(11:44):
and they were with the same district that entire time.
They also had pensions. They also had tenure, they had
the policies and the practices in place to reward people to
stay for long extensive periods,right.
Districts and charters now have at will employment.
There is No 10 year and you have4 O1 KS typically or much
(12:08):
smaller pension benefits. So the financial structures and
policies that people approach the teaching physics profession
with, it's different now. And so I, I just, whenever
anybody messages me feeling shame or guilt, I'm like, your
employer will feel 0 shame or guilt about conducting a riff or
a reduction in force. And so feel free to be as loyal
(12:33):
as you feel you ethically and morally should be.
And my encouragement is to always have irons in the fire,
have an updated resume, and knowwhere you might go next.
Yeah, that's great advice. Absolutely.
You know, we're seeing a lot of transitioning teachers coming
into the L&D industry. That's like there's a place for
(12:53):
them in instructional design, instructional technology, Ed
tech, customer success, all those different things.
What's your take on that? You, you, you see a lot of
different jobs, you see a lot ofdifferent postings.
We all, you know, I do job postings too.
But what's your take on like, how teachers can, you know,
transition into these roles and feel comfortable doing so?
(13:15):
100% So I think you're 100% right about instructional
design. I will say just being really
timely that because that the title funding who's been
suspended or I guess they've just released it today is the
22nd rate. And I, we don't know the status
(13:35):
of federal funding, but because we don't know it, neither do
chief financial officers and charter school networks and
school districts and they are spending significantly less
money expecting Title 3 reimbursement, which is what you
give for professional development than we had before.
So exactly what you said, Holly,about customer success in sales.
(13:59):
I'm seeing more customer successin sales positions than I am
instructional design positions. I'm not seeing a full drop off
in instructional design, but revenue generating from per
pupil funds, right? Like you're going to need to
have some type of a reading or math program in an elementary
(14:21):
school classroom for reading rotations.
You got to have it. And if that means you spend per
pupil money on it, it means you spend per pupil money.
The professional development youhave at the beginning of the
year where you pay somebody to come in or bring in a nonprofit
to do an instructional design review, important.
We're not saying it's not important and we're not saying
it's not a priority. But if you only have so many
(14:42):
dollars and the federal funds have stopped, it may not be as
priority. Yeah, this is this is similar to
last summer. I remember pulling the data and
I'll say like one thing that I think makes me and my hero
Chelsea, who runs EDSKIP, She like I, I talk everybody.
(15:02):
I tell everybody too, I, I've, I've start from the beginning.
I've been in an air with Chelsea.
I love, so I tell everybody likefollow.
So I think what we bring is she has her PhD, I'm almost wrapped
up with my EDD and we bring thisdata analysis piece of like when
we're looking at the jobs, it's we're not just sharing them, but
we're like, here are the trends.Here's what we're seeing with
(15:24):
salaries. Here's what we're seeing with
postings. Last June, I saw this spike in
fundraising and development roles at nonprofits and at
charter school networks. I mean, we're talking like 30 to
90 roles in a month. And I was like, how could that
happen? Well, the stimulus was ending
(15:44):
with all of the money that was going to schools.
And so people were immediately replacing them with fundraising
teams to replace the stimulus money, right?
And I think teachers number one again, imposter syndrome, doubt
themselves. But you know, you manage 30
(16:05):
client relationships a year if you're in elementary school with
families and upwards to 120 to 150 in middle or high school
period, you call them customer relationships.
If you have them for multiple years, you have enduring
customer relationships. Multi year two way customer
relationships. We have attendance data.
(16:25):
If attendance data has gotten better, you built a strong
culture and climate that has increased this metric.
If you have, you know, growth data on N.W.A map or I ready or
any type of a norm reference assessment, you can show, hey,
when I focus and build instructional design or
implement high quality instructional materials, we see
(16:46):
the X percent of students grow Xpercent of way.
You know, but I think teachers are so shy at times because we
are, we drill them in this country to be shy about
quantifying that the way I feel like you pivot and translate is
you quantify. I think that's a great point.
And and also too, I think the one thing we've also from that
(17:08):
perspective in terms like testing numbers, I taught a
status of course. So everything that my whole
performance was based off of like what my students did.
So at the time, I, I really didn't understand the data and
how important it was to kind of understand it.
So I think it's an important point to make that that it's OK
to quantify that and, you know, use that in your professional
(17:31):
materials. 100%. If if you are transitioning out
of the classroom into a a corporate environment per SE,
let's say that you have, you understand that that data
analytics are important ROI, OK,Rs all the different things.
So that's a good point. The biggest thing I always push
people on is some people send meand I'll periodically say, hey,
(17:52):
send me your resumes. You've probably seen it on
LinkedIn, right? I'll look at your resume.
Part of that is a qualitative analysis for me.
So it works for me. Like I'm going to give you 15 to
32nd review and very quick high points.
But what's really helpful is I start to see trends of okay,
people are leaving out data or okay, people are like, the
bullet points are way too long, right?
(18:13):
And so, so instructional design,iterative processing, right?
Like, let me help people. Let me take all this
information, boil it down and give people a cognitive
framework that they can leveragein order to produce a good
resume coming out of the classroom.
I've run searches. I've run 20 searches so far this
(18:33):
year where I am hiring people for organizations.
When I look at resumes, I have to see evidence that I can move
you to a phone screen and if youare not going to provide me
evidence, I don't have the evidence to say you are able to
do this instructional design or customer success role.
(18:54):
Bon Jovi, we're not halfway there and living on a prayer.
That's it. And so, and I think like just
letting people know you're goingto get 15 to 30 seconds.
I think more, I think more companies do human screening of
resumes than people realize. I think people think it's all
AII think AI plays a part. And I'm sure there are bad
actors, but most places have committed to you will get seen
(19:17):
by a human, but they have to seesomething within 15 to 30
seconds that says I can move youto the. 15 to 30 seconds I think
I told people like they only read like the first third of it.
If I can find what I need withinthe first third I advance.
I will spend and go through the whole thing if I can't find it
(19:38):
because I just am like what if it was in another role?
You know, like. Because everybody structures it
so differently. Well, that leads me to the
question then, like if, if that's your person, people take
15 to 30 seconds to to kind of look at the resume.
How do people set that up appropriately to people always
ask me, and I'm sure you get this too, because you do the
resume reviews. How do I stand out?
(20:00):
There's thousands and thousands of Athens.
How do I stand out with this 15 to 30 second thing, which is not
quick if you're doing like a situps or some sort of gender
routine, But if you're you're looking to, you know, impress
somebody, what is how did they do that in that?
First off, the field hockey coach, I appreciate the exercise
for the second one. Sports.
(20:22):
So it's all sports here. #2 I think there's a few things I
think I, it's very rare that I see like the secret job market,
right? Where like there's a secret role
created or posted for Holly because we want, you know, like
now I think that people's networking connections can help
(20:42):
them stand out. I do think like messaging every
single hiring manager on LinkedIn is probably more
annoying than it is helpful. I just want to be transparent
with people, right? I think replying I'm interested
on somebody's posts that they'rehiring doesn't help.
(21:05):
I think writing a strong, succinct, clear and concise
resume helps. And so we'll put it in the show
notes, but I have a free template that you've probably
seen. It's definitely going to.
Yep, I've seen all these things.Take the free template.
Take your resume, put them both into ChatGPT, grok or clod,
whatever your you know, choice AI is say take this template,
(21:27):
take what I have translate it right, Tell me where there are
gaps and it will right. And then I think that and then
what I would do is I'd take whatever you have produced at
the end and say now cut the words down to exactly what is
minimum needed because if somebody's I need.
To go do this. But if somebody's eyes can't
(21:49):
glide over your resume and pull out what they need and and Oh my
gosh, y'all, the formatting in Europe is expected that you use
a profile picture. It just is in America, I would
almost say it's not inappropriate to use a profile
picture, but it's going to causemore recruiters to say why did
(22:09):
they, you know, like why did they put a picture or a headshot
on their resume? So my my advice is don't make it
overly fancy. Make the content good.
This is just like instructional design.
I don't need a big publishers pretty textbook.
See, I didn't want to name a bigpublisher there.
I'm just like, let me check myself.
But I don't need a big publishers pretty textbook if I
(22:31):
can go on and I'm just going to give like Eureka Math or
extrajudiciary learnings, open source, high quality
instruction, right? I don't need to buy the pretty
textbook. I can go get really high quality
stuff for free, right? And same with the recruiter.
I don't need that really pretty PDF with all the colors.
Like I just need something that tells me you can do the job.
(22:52):
100% it's like, it's like havinga conversation where you're
having a story being told. And my grandfather does this.
He tells you every single solitary detail of the story.
So when I call him every day, it's 10 to 15 minutes of him
telling me exactly what he did throughout his day and all the
points of it. I love him.
He's going to be 85 this week. Yeah.
(23:13):
But for us, it's like, this is like, get to the point.
And I also say, too, and I don'tknow if you agree with this,
Josh, is that the resume is a very static document.
It has no personality in it whatsoever.
It's just, like, boring. It's cumbersome.
So like what you're saying, the content has to be, like, what
we're looking for. But also, too, I would tell
people, you know, working with clients in the past, like,
(23:35):
record a video about yourself, like, put a link to a video in
there so they can just, like, get a little.
Hello. I'm Holly, you know, I, I do a
podcast and all this different stuff.
I'm looking for, you know, just something quick that doesn't
necessarily. Can 20 to 30 seconds yeah right.
Like and so I did I gave a job seeker that so the reason the
LinkedIn thing came up is somebody messaged me a couple
(23:56):
days ago and said am I hoping orhurting myself by messaging
every hiring manager I said you're hurting yourself period.
I said, now what you could do issay, hey, thank you for posting
this. I applied.
So excited to go through the process like that is so
important because I very rarely do I find an organization that
(24:18):
hasn't built some type of a hiring process.
And if you're saying I want to skip the line the same way
people would Boo you at Disney World if you tried to skip the
line, people are going to Boo you in a Disney World.
I know, I know my audience. I know my and so I think.
I want a fast pass right now. Lightning Lightning Lane.
(24:39):
The the lightning lane thing in it in in it in it.
Is, so it's complex in itself. Anyways, that's another
conversation. But it's so presumptuous, right?
And I think it is a turn off forhiring managers and recruiters,
right? But here's what you can say.
You can say thank you for posting this.
I'm so excited. I applied.
I'm excited to go through the process.
(25:00):
I'm just messaging so you have access to my LinkedIn where My
Portfolio is in case you have any further questions.
Yeah, I love that. Now we'll do it to everybody.
Don't. No, no, don't.
Yeah, no, no, no, no, I don't. You know what?
And that's the thing too, is like there's something to be
said about like the what's in itfor me conversation.
(25:24):
And that that gives them like you're, you're messaging them,
you're giving that you're creating visibility, you're
making yourself, quote UN quote,stand out a little bit.
You're also giving them access to your professional materials.
But the other thing too is I think that people all too often,
they don't read people's experiences in their profiles
and they automatically, I'm sureyou've gotten this, they send
(25:46):
you something and they're like, review this for me.
They say, they don't even say hianymore.
There's no pleasantries whatsoever.
It's just like, do this for me and I'm like, hi, I'm Holly.
I've been in this game for how many years I've, you know.
Yeah. Yeah.
And like, OK, I don't. I'm happy to do like a free
(26:07):
coffee chat, but you have to payme for my services if I'm
offering you some of my time. I can't stress people enough
that just simply just saying what you need is not going to
get you anywhere. It's going to get you a block
and no more. We're not a connection.
That's 100. Yeah, I think it is people.
I think society has become so transactional and we are all so
(26:32):
used to having our own personal algorithmic feed and everything
is catered to us that we then forget how to interact with
other humans, especially in a job search.
So I love your advice and I really do think it is how can I
offer value in this exact message and in my resume?
How can I offer the value long term to this organization?
(26:55):
Yes. I will also say for people who
are freaking out about only being at jobs three to four
years, right, that's kind of thenorm now, right?
So that was my other piece of advice was I get this all the
time of like, should I stay for 10 years?
I'm like, I don't know if you like your job, like if you like
(27:16):
your job and you feel like you're doing great work, stay
and if you. Don't like a relationship?
Why are you staying in it? Just as saying it, I feel like,
I feel like there's a lot of correlation between online
dating and getting jobs today. I was going to use a Tinder
reference where I'm like, yeah, all of my friends who share and
I'm like, oh God, that sounds like think dad, you know, like,
(27:37):
no, like block, block, swipe, whichever way you're supposed to
swipe to get them to go away. But that's where my fiance and I
met. I swiped right and I.
Was like, so it's right. OK, right is good, left is bad.
Don't do left right like people people don't do things that are
going to make a recruiter or a hiring manager go left right.
(27:59):
And if you say like review my resume, I'm your next person.
I, I like see this and again, people are meaning to be
well-intentioned and people don't think about this like you,
me or Chelsea do, where we're thinking about it every day.
And so when you jump into the hiring market, like, please just
take our advice, right? Humility and value will take you
further than trying to jump the line or you know, like, and I
(28:24):
promise I'll leave with this. You've mentioned thousands of
applicants. There are 100%.
I work with clients that truly get thousands of applicants.
It happens, right? I'm also working with clients on
how do you post your role in a way that it gets in front of
(28:45):
your niche audience, right? Like maybe you're on Chelsea,
maybe you're on. There's another side of this.
Because I've run a few searches where as an experiment, I just
put up an ad on LinkedIn and I got flooded with applicants.
But they were 5 to 10% were actually certified for the role
(29:05):
that we were posting 'cause it was a principal rule, right?
And probably 50%, Holly didn't have experience at all on K12,
right? And they were looking for a job.
And because there was the quick apply, we don't need quick
apply, right? So I've been advising people,
especially who are hiring for remote roles, don't do quick
apply. Ask 3 to 4 written questions,
(29:27):
right? Make the transaction cost higher
so that way you have a higher likelihood of getting people who
can demonstrate they have the skills as opposed to people who
are just jumping in. Yeah, Oh God, that's great
advice for the people who are posting the jobs too.
So you've given the advice for people who are applying to the
jobs and now people who are posting the jobs.
I think once it, you know, the reason I jumped into this stuff
(29:48):
is because it feels like a game to me.
You're up in the 80s and the 90swith Mario and all that
different stuff. It feels like I'm trying to
figure out the right formula here.
And I think people all too oftenthey, if they run into a block,
they just stop. Or there.
There, there. There's some kind of excuse
there as to why they're not going to push forward.
So I think finding the right formula is something I like to
(30:09):
help people do, and I think that's what you like to do as
well. So it's good.
That's refreshing to tell. And especially like the job
postings. I love it when they list what is
the interview process like? Tell me the steps.
So I feel like I'm not going to be in six rounds of interviews.
This happened to me. They had me on the hook as a
second person and they're stringing me along and they make
(30:31):
me do a project and then they tell me I'm not the person.
Well, and so I would actually have shared that in, you know,
spoiler alert, if you follow me on LinkedIn, you know, I'm very
openly autistic, right? Like, and I'm very open about
it. But when I do a search and when
I do a phone screen and say, hey, welcome to the second round
of the interview process, right?You're in the phone screen.
(30:54):
The 1st 5 minutes we're going totalk about the logistics of the
search. I'm going to give you all of the
dates of each of the rounds. I'm going to tell you when
you're going to hear by now I will say I don't give feedback
because quite frankly, my insurance company said don't
give feedback, right? And I was like this.
But what I have started doing isif people are finalists, I'll do
(31:15):
a coffee chat exactly to what you said, where I'm like, hey,
the client, what was somebody else on this one?
But if you want to chat about what else is out there,
etcetera, right, I'll chat with you.
Totally optional, right? Not forced.
But to your point, people, I feel like shine so much better
when you take the cognitive load.
And again, going back to instructional design and theory.
(31:36):
But if I can take the cognitive load off at the beginning of an
interview to tell you exactly when you're going to hear and
how many rounds there are going to be, you can then shine and
tell me why you're the right fitand you can go through the
scenarios. I feel like this whole episode
was just advice. I don't know if we need to do
the well, actually you're an entrepreneur.
(31:57):
So there's there's people like we, we talk a lot about the norm
of transitioning teachers going into L&D, going into
instructional design, all that, all that stuff.
But what if somebody wants to start their own business?
What if somebody wants to do what you're doing?
Is there three pieces of advice?You get people who are like, I
want to do my own thing. Yeah.
What should they do? Number one, I will say that I am
(32:19):
really lucky that I have a partner who has a salary because
it is really steady. And so if you're going to jump
into entrepreneurial life, you got to understand the ebbs and
flows of cash flow because you'll run into a lot of cash
and then you'll run into no cash.
It's not salary. You're not getting the same
amount predictably every two weeks or twice a month.
OK. So that's number one is if you
(32:40):
can wrap your brain around cash flow, you're already winning #2
understanding the logistics of becoming an entrepreneur.
So that means understanding getting A5O1C37, not a 5O1C3
getting a 1099, you know, sole proprietorship LLC set up so
you're able to get paid. Getting a business banking
(33:02):
account. Don't take checks in your
personal. So that way if you ever get
audited or sued, it goes to the bank account.
You don't have to get it, but errors and admissions insurance,
I use The Hartford for that. Like very easy.
Now they're gonna give you ruleslike what I mentioned earlier of
like, yeah, yeah, you may like at the bottom of my like where
you can add rules. I had to put a disclaimer like
(33:24):
this does not guarantee you willhire somebody.
And I was like, really? And the insurance company was
like, yes, like really, you needto get an invoicing system, But
they're they're all out there. I'm super open about it and I'll
try to do a post on LinkedIn. I think you should I.
Think that'd be very helpful. I I was checking off the list in
my head that I've done all thesethings, but I may have been
(33:45):
missing something. Who knows?
There's this, there's it's so convoluted being a small
business owner and trying to find the resources of where to
do stuff and what's anyways that's that's a conversation
obviously for another day, but Iappreciate that advice.
Just keep it simple. Make sure you're following the
rules, setting up the the stuff that you need in order to be
successful in your business. And you know what teachers, you
(34:06):
can totally do it. You can totally do it.
There's no like, I think sometimes teachers are like, I
just I, I can only be a teacher.That's all I know how to do.
Not true. There's I will tell you talk.
About that. The last advice he'll give a
teacher is when I think about a senior leadership role, they
would be a wonderful chief academic officer in a charter
(34:28):
net worth or district. I'm not saying they would.
They would also be such a good chief of staff because so many
chief of staff roles are GSD roles, which is what we say get
stuff done. And there's another S word you
can use. But like teachers just get stuff
done. They think about what is the
most efficient, lowest transaction cost, highest value
(34:49):
way that I can just get to this goal because that's what they do
in the classroom. And if you want to leave being
able to be again, exactly as youmentioned, a customer success
person, an instructional design person and operations person.
When you can speak K12, you haveopened up for that nonprofit or
that edtech company to have an in in the market with the
(35:10):
customers because you speak the language.
So have confidence I. Love it.
We're going to end there. There's going to be everything
in the show notes because this has honestly been a very
enlightening, engaging episode and and talking with you is just
reaffirming some of the things that we consistently share out
of LinkedIn world. And we're not just we're not BS
ING here. We're really sharing real
(35:31):
advice. So Josh, thank you so much for
coming on the show and sharing that and everything to find Josh
K to 12 job blasts. All the different things are all
going to be in the show notes. So please go there.
Please connect with Josh on LinkedIn.
Can't thank you enough friend for coming on the show and
chatting with me. Absolutely, Holly.
Thanks for the invite. Thanks for spending a few
(35:52):
minutes with Holly. She knows your podcast queue is
packed. If today's episode sparked an
idea or gave you that extra nudge of confidence, tap, follow
or subscribe in your favorite app so you never miss an episode
of Ed Up L&D. Dropping a quick rating or
review helps more educators and learning pros discover the show,
too. Want to keep the conversation
(36:13):
going? Connect with Holly on LinkedIn
and share your biggest take away.
She reads every message. Until next time, keep learning,
keep leading, and keep believingin your own story.
Talk soon. Hi, we're ispring, an
international team of e-learningenthusiasts who help more than
60,000 clients across the globe succeed with better online
(36:34):
learning. Our two flagship solutions are
ispring Suite and ispring Learn LMS.
Ispring Suite is an intuitive all in one authoring tool for
creating engaging e-learning content, while ispringlearn is
an innovative online training platform for onboarding,
upskilling, and certifying your teams.
We'd be happy to get to know youand pick a solution that fits
your needs best. Go to www.icepringsolutions.com
(36:57):
to learn more about us and connect.
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