December 18, 2025 • 27 mins
Literacy is a human right. Every learner, regardless of the language spoken at home, deserves access to high-quality, evidence-based instruction that is both culturally and linguistically responsive. This is especially critical for the more than 5 million students in the United States whose heritage language is not English.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome to Edview 360.
(00:05):
I'm so hopeful because today Isee the great intention and the
focus on all students, butespecially students from
linguistically diversebackgrounds.
And I see that leaders andschool teachers and also
families really want to doright.
So they're sharing the data,knowing about what the skills
(00:28):
are, working together as teammembers for the outcomes of our
students, co-planning onfoundational skills of literacy
versus those importantvocabulary that I mentioned in
comprehension, but also takingthe time to meet with each other
and do a very interdisciplinaryapproach.
(00:51):
And I say literacy is the bridgeto equity.
And every student has that rightfor literacy.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
You just heard from Dr.
Elsa Cardenas Hagen, author andrespected authority on literacy
teaching and learning withEnglish learners.
Dr.
Cardenas Hagen is our podcastguest on Edview360.
SPEAKER_03 (01:17):
Hello, this is Pam Austin.
Welcome back to the Edview 360podcast series.
We are so excited to have youwith us today for another
fascinating literacyconversation.
I'm conducting today's podcastfor my native New Orleans,
Louisiana.
Today's episode, IntensiveIntervention for Tier 2 and Tier
(01:39):
III, Success for Multilingualsand All Students Who Struggle,
features a distinguished guestwhose work has shaped literacy
instruction across the country.
(02:01):
She serves as the president ofthe Valley Academic Language
Education Center in Brownsville,Texas, and is a research
associate at the Texas Institutefor Measurement, Evaluation, and
Statistics at the University ofHouston.
With more than 25 years ofexperience in federally funded
(02:22):
research, Dr.
Cardenas Hagan has helped designassessments and interventions
that support linguisticallydiverse students.
She's also a leader in thefield, chairperson of the
National Joint Committee onLearning Disabilities, a board
member of the LearningDisabilities Association of
America, and a past vice chairof the International Dyslexia
(02:46):
Association.
Her book, Literacy Foundationsfor English Learners, offers
educators a comprehensive guideto implementing structured
literacy with multilingualstudents.
In our conversation today, Dr.
Cardenius Hagen will shareinsights on how intensive
intervention at tiers two andthree can be a game changer for
(03:08):
students who struggle withliteracy, including English
learners and much more.
Let's get started.
Welcome, Elsa.
SPEAKER_02 (03:16):
Thank you so much for having me today.
SPEAKER_03 (03:18):
Tell us what initially drew you to the field
of literacy learning.
SPEAKER_02 (03:23):
I was initially drawn as a speech and language
pathologist, beginning to seestudents really struggle not
only with language, but alsowith their literacy skills.
And so I knew I had to become anexpert in both language and
literacy to service thestudents, especially with
Spanish-speaking students whowere learning English as an
(03:45):
additional language.
SPEAKER_03 (03:47):
Well, how has your career progressed?
When we think about the passionthat you have, 25 years and just
so much experience, how doesthat all stay intact?
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
I initially thought I love working with students who
struggle.
But what we did with afoundation that we called
Brownsville Reads, we startedwith working at the core, making
sure that every generaleducation teacher knew about the
best evidence practices.
And that way we would knowexactly who needed intervention
(04:18):
and then worked with that.
And so that really in our workby year five, we had an 84%
reduction in referrals tospecial education.
So that told us very much thatour teachers needed the tools to
really meet the needs of allstudents, but especially
students who are multilingual.
SPEAKER_03 (04:38):
That whole idea of success breeding more success.
And that's where the excitementcomes from.
Oh, I absolutely love it.
You said that literacy is ahuman right.
Can you share what you mean bythat thought?
SPEAKER_02 (04:52):
Well, what I mean by that is that every single
learner out there, regardless ofthe language that they speak at
home, they deserve thatequitable access, access to the
tools, access to the support,and the opportunities by highly
qualified teachers who can makea difference and really
(05:14):
recognize that we are working onlanguage as we're working on
literacy, and we must value thathome language as an asset and
not a barrier.
SPEAKER_03 (05:25):
Oh, so tying in those tools for teachers with
success for students, right?
That is right.
Oh, I absolutely love that.
Getting them exactly what theyneed.
There are some misconceptionsout there about tier two and
tier three intervention forstudents who are struggling with
learning how to read, right?
What are some of thosemisconceptions?
(05:46):
And tie it in a little bit withour multilingual learners.
SPEAKER_02 (05:50):
So, what the misconception is, is first of
all, that delaying, waiting,this is what I often hear.
We're gonna wait until theirlanguage develops before we ever
intervene with anything to dowith reading and writing, when
in fact, we need to immediatelywork with students.
(06:10):
We can tell if they're meetingthe standards set forth by the
schools and the school district,and also how they're doing in
relationship to their peers.
But we need to make sure, again,that we're building in those
language foundations as we'reteaching literacy, but also
bring in the culturally andlinguistically relevant
(06:33):
principles.
And what do I mean by that?
What does it mean to beculturally and linguistically
responsive to the students?
Well, culturally, what we knowabout that and what the science
tells us about that is that whenstudents can see themselves or
see something about their livesthat are related to them in the
instruction, they get verymotivated and their attention
(06:57):
increases.
Now, does that change literacyoutcomes?
No, but it's the start,attention and motivation.
The linguistic responsivenessthat very clearly affects how
well they'll do in learning toread and write.
So bringing in those connectionsacross languages.
I like to share one of thewebsites that I used because
(07:21):
there's 400 different languagesspoken in the homes of the
students that we serve here inthe United States that come from
linguistically diversebackgrounds.
So I like to use something likemylanguages.org and I look up to
see, okay, here's this languagethat I'm not very familiar with,
but what are some of theconnections that can be made?
For example, on the sounds thatalready they know that exist in
(07:45):
their language, how can weconnect them to this new
language of English?
That is being linguisticallyresponsive, and that's what we
need every teacher to do.
SPEAKER_03 (07:54):
So those connections, that's the key
word, right, connections inorder to help students to become
more excited and say, hey, I seemyself there.
So I want to think about theterm structured literacy.
It's out there in our worldtoday.
We know that's the collection ofresearch that's out there.
And you talked about the factthat we can do more than one
(08:17):
thing at one time.
How do we build the idea offoundational skills, an oral
language that revolves aroundwhat the expectations are in
structured literacy?
What does that look like for ourteachers, for English language
learners?
SPEAKER_02 (08:33):
Thank you so much.
So, structured literacy was aterm that was developed by the
International DyslexiaAssociation in June of 2014 when
we wanted to say, what is itthat we really want?
We want this comprehensiveapproach, both in language and
in literacy.
And so, what does that mean?
You see in the infomap that hasbeen published that at the
(08:56):
foundation of the why, why do wedo structured literacy?
We do structured literacybecause we have this body of
evidence that supports certainstrategies that must be included
in language and literacyinstruction.
But in that infomap, what weinclude is oral language.
(09:16):
And that means that every childin front of us, including
students who are multilinguallearners, that every child must
have that opportunity to developthe sounds of the language, the
words and their meaning, howthey're used and the structures,
you know, that syntax, how dowords function in a sentence?
How do we use them?
And one of the best wordlearning strategies is
(09:38):
morphology, knowing about theseword parts.
And I am such a believer inthat.
I, as an English learner, didnot have that opportunity until
I was in college.
And that's when my whole worldturned over.
And I realized, you mean to tellme that these word parts exist
and it's a good word learningstrategy?
From then on, I knew that Ineeded to promote these good
(10:01):
word learning strategies andthis cross-linguistic transfer
as an approach.
And so when we think aboutstructured literacy, I need to
be bringing in those componentsof language that I just
described with the components ofliteracy that you all know when
we think about foundationalskills, phonological awareness,
(10:21):
and phonics, building thatfluency to get us to that
wonderful vocabulary and deepunderstanding, right?
But we can't forget writingeither, Pam.
A lot of times people think, oh,I don't have time for writing.
Well, no, structured literacyincludes written language.
And so that we're going to dolistening, speaking, reading,
(10:42):
and writing, all integrated, notin isolation, not in a silo,
right?
All interconnected.
SPEAKER_03 (10:52):
I love the idea of the interconnectedness of it
all.
We do it all to practice it all,to make it relevant and to build
those strong literacy skills forour students, right?
Okay, got a lot of C wordscoming here.
We have connections, we havecomprehensive as well, and
making sure that our studentsget everything they need.
Those layers are just soinspiring.
(11:15):
I do want to ask you aboutlooking at data and responding
to data and thinking about whatadjustments teachers can make.
Maybe there's a teacher in atier one classroom who have
students who are receiving tiertwo and tier three instruction.
How can they take some of whatwe know that these students need
(11:39):
and are getting in tier two andtier three instruction and
incorporate and support thestudents during a tier one core
curriculum?
SPEAKER_02 (11:48):
Thank you.
This is what I say.
Data informs instruction.
And every day a child respondsto us.
That is data.
Now, we also have in our schoolsavailable to us lots of progress
monitoring tools to know whereare the students today, and that
tells us what we need to dotomorrow.
(12:08):
But what I want to say is everyday we collect data as they
speak to us, as they read forus, as they answer our
questions, as they write for us.
That's all data in front of us.
Now, how do we get thiscollaborative approach, this
interdisciplinary approach?
Because I might have, as astudent who's receiving some
(12:30):
extra support, whether that bein tier two or tier three
instruction, my generaleducation teacher needs to know
what's going on in thisintervention in tier two or tier
three.
And my tier two and tier threeteacher need to know what's
going on in that coreinstruction.
And what we know from thescience of reading is the more
(12:52):
alignment we have, the morecollaboration we have, the more
coordination that we have, thebetter the outcomes for the
students.
And so that we're getting thisopportunity to practice.
We're finding out that studentsneed more language practice,
they need more reading practice,and they need more writing
(13:13):
practice.
But that all has to be, again,well designed and intentional.
And so, how can we best do it?
Let's all get together and let'stake the time for that
collaboration to really beconsistent in the delivery of
the concepts that we want ourstudents to achieve.
SPEAKER_03 (13:35):
One thing you said, I just love the idea of every
day we collect data and it'sresponding to that data that we
collect.
So it might not always beformal, but also taking a look
at the data we collect, formaland informal, that responsive to
it, and then we work togethercollaborately.
That is just so important.
That alignment that you'retalking about, then that helps
(13:57):
lead to the goal setting, whichis what I was gonna ask you
about, but you've answered thatfor me already.
SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
Voyager Sopras Learning's evidence-based
programs are founded in thescience of reading and
incorporate systematic, explicitinstruction.
Our programs include LanguageLive by Dr.
Luisa Moats and Rewards by Dr.
Anita Archer.
Learn more at VoyagerSopras.comforward slash reading.
SPEAKER_03 (14:29):
So we set these goals with our core teacher and
teachers who are providing thatintervention, right?
And then we are looking at anupward trajectory for students.
Is that the idea, Elsa?
SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
What I want to say is I want to express this and
tell you what I see inclassrooms is I observe
classrooms with multilinguallearners and or even in their
small group instruction.
A lot of times what I see arethese little helpers like
(15:03):
sentence stems.
Oh, well, we're gonna give you asentence starter to help you
because your languageproficiency may not be the same
as a monolingual Englishspeaker.
Okay, that makes sense to me.
But what is problematic aboutthat is that when I go in later
in the middle of the year, theend of the year, those same
(15:23):
sentence stems are being used.
The sentence stem was meant,Pam, to get us started.
But it wasn't meant for us touse.
It's meant for us to askourselves as instructors, why
did they need that sentencestem?
What do I get from theirlanguage to where they will no
longer need that?
How do I build their languagesystematically and explicitly so
(15:46):
they don't need a sentence stemto get this assignment done?
Right.
And what is it about theassignment that I'm giving that
will be super challenging forthe student?
Can I front load withinformation and with practice so
that I will gradually have thatrelease, right, of those extra
(16:06):
supports that they need?
So that's the idea.
Where are they today in languageand literacy?
Where am I going tomorrow?
And how can I intentionally planand practice with the students
so they can achieve and I canrelease some of these extra
helpers that they need.
SPEAKER_03 (16:26):
So that they can do some of the heavy lifting once
we give them the supports.
SPEAKER_02 (16:31):
Yes, they need the supports, and we know visual
supports help, verbal supportshelp, but direct instruction
makes the difference on what isit that they need so that they
can be successful in the task athand.
SPEAKER_03 (16:48):
And again, that goes back to the interdisciplinary
collaboration that you'remaking, setting a goal.
So these goals that you'resetting are consistently
changing.
Is that what you're saying,Elsa?
SPEAKER_02 (16:59):
That's right.
They should be, and they shouldbe very explicit too.
And they should be wellpracticed.
Well, lots of opportunities.
We're finding that studentsaren't getting enough
opportunities for languageexpression, whether that be
orally or in written form, andfor that understanding, right?
And so I like to think about, Icall this my four T's, like even
(17:21):
for language, instead of waitingfor everyone to respond, we use
the four T's think, turn, talk,then come back and tell to me,
right?
So everybody had a chance forengagement.
And that engagement, as anEnglish learner, you are more
willing to risk in a kind ofsmaller group setting than you
(17:43):
are in the large group setting.
But in this way, everyone got torespond, everyone got to think
about and practice theirresponse, and then they got to
report out.
And so we need more practice,practice with language, practice
with literacy.
SPEAKER_03 (18:00):
All right, and this is a way because when you were
speaking, I kept hearing insidemy head practice.
This is a perfect way forleveraging time and practice.
I love that example that yougave us, Elsa.
So helpful for teachers.
How do we help our educators tomove from what we know we need
to do, the research as you laidout in structured literacy, to
(18:24):
the actual practice?
How do we support teachers touse what we've learned,
especially when it comes tointensive intervention?
SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
Yeah, what I think too, that's just really amazing
to me as I work with teachers.
I really see that if we couldreally show them routines about
just like we show routines tothe students, our teachers need
routines to get them started.
Like this is how you canincorporate all the things that
I'm saying, how you canincorporate language in those
(18:57):
language components into yourliteracy components.
And when you give them thoseroutines about how to do this,
then it's like, I got this.
I don't need them anymore.
I know exactly what to do now.
And I'm watching how thestudents respond.
And now, because you gave methis so explicitly and
systematically, now I know howto scaffold that language, how
(19:20):
to scaffold that literacy basedupon how they're responding.
It helps me to be morediagnostic and prescriptive in
my teaching.
So again, I'm looking for thespecific responses so that I can
kind of change, alter a littlebit what I've given.
And really it helps me to thinkon my feet, to think quickly,
(19:43):
because we have to be ready,right, with those scaffolds,
right?
We either go up or we releasethem as they respond to us.
SPEAKER_03 (19:51):
Right.
Refining that science ofteaching, right?
Being very diagnostic andprescriptive on the spot,
because this is another waywhere we're getting.
Gaining that data and respondingto it.
That's right.
Absolutely love it.
Thank you.
What advice do you have fordistrict leaders who want to
build a more equitable literacysystem for diverse learners?
(20:13):
We've got all kinds of studentsin my school.
How do I help and support theneeds of my teachers and the
needs of my students?
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
So, what I want to say, Pam, what you've just
brought up is so very important.
There needs to be aninfrastructure in place.
And where does thatinfrastructure begin?
It begins with the leadership.
It begins with having the systemin place that's going to support
our teachers, right?
To deliver this culturally andlinguistically evidence-based
(20:43):
practices to our students andalso engaging our families.
We often forget about ourfamilies as partners in this
whole process.
And that way, but first as aleader, I have to know about the
evidence.
I have to know about what Iexpect.
And I say, like, what am Iexpecting from our teachers?
(21:06):
And how can I give them thatsupport?
We have 10 years of work, and itwas work sponsored by the Office
of Special Education Programs.
And it was really about bringingthe science of our teaching and
the science of language andliteracy into the classrooms.
And it's at a website calledMTSS, the number four, lsel.org.
(21:32):
And right there, if you'rewanting leadership out there and
we're wanting to look at how dowe implement these
multiple-tiered systems, right?
(21:53):
Hey, let's look at how you aredoing screeners from this lens
of these students.
How are you progress monitoring?
How are you identifying forstruggles?
And how are you intervening forthose struggles?
And have you considered each ofthese variables?
And at what level have youconsidered them?
(22:14):
And so that's our rubric that wehave on MTSS4Ls.org, all
available, all sponsored by ourUnited States government, and
that still exists on a website.
And so I really encourage notonly the teachers to look at
this, but all leaders to makesure that you have that
infrastructure that will supportour teachers, our students, and
(22:38):
their families to be successful.
SPEAKER_03 (22:41):
Basically having a nice strong system to work with
so you can build that success.
That structure needs to bethere.
Right?
All right, awesome.
Well, finally, what gives youhope about the future of
literacy instruction forstudents who struggle?
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
What gives me hope, like today and every day
forward, is I am starting toreally realize, I think about,
look today, Elsa, finally we'vearrived at this topic being a
national of national importance.
And what gives me suchexcitement is when I get to meet
with school leaders and teachersand community leaders, and
(23:23):
everyone wants to do right bythese students.
Everyone believes in literacyfor all.
And what we see now is a moreopen-mindedness to what we've
learned.
I am so happy that after decadesof work, that people are now
listening to the science behindwhat we do, and that we are more
(23:45):
increasing that shared languageamongst all kinds of this
interdisciplinary approaches.
And that we are now seeingreally districts and schools and
teachers, leaders, schoolleaders really focused on
improving the language andliteracy outcomes of all
(24:07):
students and willing to do theextra work that it takes for all
children to succeed.
SPEAKER_03 (24:15):
Now I understand.
This is how the passion forliteracy learning is fed and
grows and continues.
SPEAKER_02 (24:26):
Yes, it's wonderful for you to say that.
So I say share what you know,what specific interventions,
share your knowledge, co-plan,align your vocabulary and your
comprehension strategies withmaybe those foundational skills
strategies, check in, take thetime to collaborate and have
(24:48):
those brief meetings that youneed to review the data, to see
where we are with the students,and really to meet their needs
based upon how they'reresponding in every level of
instruction and especially inthat targeted instruction.
SPEAKER_03 (25:04):
Finally, what gives you hope about the future of
literacy instruction forstudents who struggle?
SPEAKER_02 (25:14):
I'm so hopeful because today I see the great
intention and the focus on allstudents, but especially
students from linguisticallydiverse backgrounds.
And I see that leaders andschool teachers and also
families really want to doright.
So they're sharing the data,knowing about what the skills
(25:37):
are, working together as teammembers for the outcomes of our
students, co-planning onfoundational skills of literacy
versus those importantvocabulary that I mentioned and
comprehension, but also takingthe time to meet with each other
and do a very interdisciplinaryapproach.
(26:00):
And I say literacy, it's thebridge to equity.
And every student has that rightfor literacy.
SPEAKER_03 (26:10):
This has been such a wonderfully informative and
insightful conversation.
We thank you, Dr.
Cardinius Hagen, for sharingyour knowledge and experience
with our audience today.
And thank you to our listenersfor joining us for this
insightful conversation with Dr.
Cardenas Hagen.
Her experience and passion forliteracy, equity reminds us that
(26:35):
every student, especially thosewho are multilingual or
struggling, deserves access toinstruction that is explicit,
systematic, and grounded inresearch.
That's it for another greatEdview 360 podcast.
Please join us again next monthand visit VoyagerSopris.com
slash Edview to learn about ourwebinars, blogs, and other
(26:58):
products.
This has been Pam Austin, and wehope to see you all again soon.
SPEAKER_00 (27:04):
This has been an Edview 360 podcast.
For additional thought-provokingdiscussions, sign up for our
blog, webinar, and podcastseries at VoyagerSopris.com
slash Edview360.
If you enjoyed the show, we'dlove a five star review wherever
you listen to podcasts and tohelp other people like you find
(27:27):
our show.
Thank you.
Welcome to Edview 360.
(00:05):
I'm so hopeful because today Isee the great intention and the
focus on all students, butespecially students from
linguistically diversebackgrounds.
And I see that leaders andschool teachers and also
families really want to doright.
So they're sharing the data,knowing about what the skills
(00:28):
are, working together as teammembers for the outcomes of our
students, co-planning onfoundational skills of literacy
versus those importantvocabulary that I mentioned in
comprehension, but also takingthe time to meet with each other
and do a very interdisciplinaryapproach.
(00:51):
And I say literacy is the bridgeto equity.
And every student has that rightfor literacy.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
You just heard from Dr.
Elsa Cardenas Hagen, author andrespected authority on literacy
teaching and learning withEnglish learners.
Dr.
Cardenas Hagen is our podcastguest on Edview360.
SPEAKER_03 (01:17):
Hello, this is Pam Austin.
Welcome back to the Edview 360podcast series.
We are so excited to have youwith us today for another
fascinating literacyconversation.
I'm conducting today's podcastfor my native New Orleans,
Louisiana.
Today's episode, IntensiveIntervention for Tier 2 and Tier
(01:39):
III, Success for Multilingualsand All Students Who Struggle,
features a distinguished guestwhose work has shaped literacy
instruction across the country.
(02:01):
She serves as the president ofthe Valley Academic Language
Education Center in Brownsville,Texas, and is a research
associate at the Texas Institutefor Measurement, Evaluation, and
Statistics at the University ofHouston.
With more than 25 years ofexperience in federally funded
(02:22):
research, Dr.
Cardenas Hagan has helped designassessments and interventions
that support linguisticallydiverse students.
She's also a leader in thefield, chairperson of the
National Joint Committee onLearning Disabilities, a board
member of the LearningDisabilities Association of
America, and a past vice chairof the International Dyslexia
(02:46):
Association.
Her book, Literacy Foundationsfor English Learners, offers
educators a comprehensive guideto implementing structured
literacy with multilingualstudents.
In our conversation today, Dr.
Cardenius Hagen will shareinsights on how intensive
intervention at tiers two andthree can be a game changer for
(03:08):
students who struggle withliteracy, including English
learners and much more.
Let's get started.
Welcome, Elsa.
SPEAKER_02 (03:16):
Thank you so much for having me today.
SPEAKER_03 (03:18):
Tell us what initially drew you to the field
of literacy learning.
SPEAKER_02 (03:23):
I was initially drawn as a speech and language
pathologist, beginning to seestudents really struggle not
only with language, but alsowith their literacy skills.
And so I knew I had to become anexpert in both language and
literacy to service thestudents, especially with
Spanish-speaking students whowere learning English as an
(03:45):
additional language.
SPEAKER_03 (03:47):
Well, how has your career progressed?
When we think about the passionthat you have, 25 years and just
so much experience, how doesthat all stay intact?
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
I initially thought I love working with students who
struggle.
But what we did with afoundation that we called
Brownsville Reads, we startedwith working at the core, making
sure that every generaleducation teacher knew about the
best evidence practices.
And that way we would knowexactly who needed intervention
(04:18):
and then worked with that.
And so that really in our workby year five, we had an 84%
reduction in referrals tospecial education.
So that told us very much thatour teachers needed the tools to
really meet the needs of allstudents, but especially
students who are multilingual.
SPEAKER_03 (04:38):
That whole idea of success breeding more success.
And that's where the excitementcomes from.
Oh, I absolutely love it.
You said that literacy is ahuman right.
Can you share what you mean bythat thought?
SPEAKER_02 (04:52):
Well, what I mean by that is that every single
learner out there, regardless ofthe language that they speak at
home, they deserve thatequitable access, access to the
tools, access to the support,and the opportunities by highly
qualified teachers who can makea difference and really
(05:14):
recognize that we are working onlanguage as we're working on
literacy, and we must value thathome language as an asset and
not a barrier.
SPEAKER_03 (05:25):
Oh, so tying in those tools for teachers with
success for students, right?
That is right.
Oh, I absolutely love that.
Getting them exactly what theyneed.
There are some misconceptionsout there about tier two and
tier three intervention forstudents who are struggling with
learning how to read, right?
What are some of thosemisconceptions?
(05:46):
And tie it in a little bit withour multilingual learners.
SPEAKER_02 (05:50):
So, what the misconception is, is first of
all, that delaying, waiting,this is what I often hear.
We're gonna wait until theirlanguage develops before we ever
intervene with anything to dowith reading and writing, when
in fact, we need to immediatelywork with students.
(06:10):
We can tell if they're meetingthe standards set forth by the
schools and the school district,and also how they're doing in
relationship to their peers.
But we need to make sure, again,that we're building in those
language foundations as we'reteaching literacy, but also
bring in the culturally andlinguistically relevant
(06:33):
principles.
And what do I mean by that?
What does it mean to beculturally and linguistically
responsive to the students?
Well, culturally, what we knowabout that and what the science
tells us about that is that whenstudents can see themselves or
see something about their livesthat are related to them in the
instruction, they get verymotivated and their attention
(06:57):
increases.
Now, does that change literacyoutcomes?
No, but it's the start,attention and motivation.
The linguistic responsivenessthat very clearly affects how
well they'll do in learning toread and write.
So bringing in those connectionsacross languages.
I like to share one of thewebsites that I used because
(07:21):
there's 400 different languagesspoken in the homes of the
students that we serve here inthe United States that come from
linguistically diversebackgrounds.
So I like to use something likemylanguages.org and I look up to
see, okay, here's this languagethat I'm not very familiar with,
but what are some of theconnections that can be made?
For example, on the sounds thatalready they know that exist in
(07:45):
their language, how can weconnect them to this new
language of English?
That is being linguisticallyresponsive, and that's what we
need every teacher to do.
SPEAKER_03 (07:54):
So those connections, that's the key
word, right, connections inorder to help students to become
more excited and say, hey, I seemyself there.
So I want to think about theterm structured literacy.
It's out there in our worldtoday.
We know that's the collection ofresearch that's out there.
And you talked about the factthat we can do more than one
(08:17):
thing at one time.
How do we build the idea offoundational skills, an oral
language that revolves aroundwhat the expectations are in
structured literacy?
What does that look like for ourteachers, for English language
learners?
SPEAKER_02 (08:33):
Thank you so much.
So, structured literacy was aterm that was developed by the
International DyslexiaAssociation in June of 2014 when
we wanted to say, what is itthat we really want?
We want this comprehensiveapproach, both in language and
in literacy.
And so, what does that mean?
You see in the infomap that hasbeen published that at the
(08:56):
foundation of the why, why do wedo structured literacy?
We do structured literacybecause we have this body of
evidence that supports certainstrategies that must be included
in language and literacyinstruction.
But in that infomap, what weinclude is oral language.
(09:16):
And that means that every childin front of us, including
students who are multilinguallearners, that every child must
have that opportunity to developthe sounds of the language, the
words and their meaning, howthey're used and the structures,
you know, that syntax, how dowords function in a sentence?
How do we use them?
And one of the best wordlearning strategies is
(09:38):
morphology, knowing about theseword parts.
And I am such a believer inthat.
I, as an English learner, didnot have that opportunity until
I was in college.
And that's when my whole worldturned over.
And I realized, you mean to tellme that these word parts exist
and it's a good word learningstrategy?
From then on, I knew that Ineeded to promote these good
(10:01):
word learning strategies andthis cross-linguistic transfer
as an approach.
And so when we think aboutstructured literacy, I need to
be bringing in those componentsof language that I just
described with the components ofliteracy that you all know when
we think about foundationalskills, phonological awareness,
(10:21):
and phonics, building thatfluency to get us to that
wonderful vocabulary and deepunderstanding, right?
But we can't forget writingeither, Pam.
A lot of times people think, oh,I don't have time for writing.
Well, no, structured literacyincludes written language.
And so that we're going to dolistening, speaking, reading,
(10:42):
and writing, all integrated, notin isolation, not in a silo,
right?
All interconnected.
SPEAKER_03 (10:52):
I love the idea of the interconnectedness of it
all.
We do it all to practice it all,to make it relevant and to build
those strong literacy skills forour students, right?
Okay, got a lot of C wordscoming here.
We have connections, we havecomprehensive as well, and
making sure that our studentsget everything they need.
Those layers are just soinspiring.
(11:15):
I do want to ask you aboutlooking at data and responding
to data and thinking about whatadjustments teachers can make.
Maybe there's a teacher in atier one classroom who have
students who are receiving tiertwo and tier three instruction.
How can they take some of whatwe know that these students need
(11:39):
and are getting in tier two andtier three instruction and
incorporate and support thestudents during a tier one core
curriculum?
SPEAKER_02 (11:48):
Thank you.
This is what I say.
Data informs instruction.
And every day a child respondsto us.
That is data.
Now, we also have in our schoolsavailable to us lots of progress
monitoring tools to know whereare the students today, and that
tells us what we need to dotomorrow.
(12:08):
But what I want to say is everyday we collect data as they
speak to us, as they read forus, as they answer our
questions, as they write for us.
That's all data in front of us.
Now, how do we get thiscollaborative approach, this
interdisciplinary approach?
Because I might have, as astudent who's receiving some
(12:30):
extra support, whether that bein tier two or tier three
instruction, my generaleducation teacher needs to know
what's going on in thisintervention in tier two or tier
three.
And my tier two and tier threeteacher need to know what's
going on in that coreinstruction.
And what we know from thescience of reading is the more
(12:52):
alignment we have, the morecollaboration we have, the more
coordination that we have, thebetter the outcomes for the
students.
And so that we're getting thisopportunity to practice.
We're finding out that studentsneed more language practice,
they need more reading practice,and they need more writing
(13:13):
practice.
But that all has to be, again,well designed and intentional.
And so, how can we best do it?
Let's all get together and let'stake the time for that
collaboration to really beconsistent in the delivery of
the concepts that we want ourstudents to achieve.
SPEAKER_03 (13:35):
One thing you said, I just love the idea of every
day we collect data and it'sresponding to that data that we
collect.
So it might not always beformal, but also taking a look
at the data we collect, formaland informal, that responsive to
it, and then we work togethercollaborately.
That is just so important.
That alignment that you'retalking about, then that helps
(13:57):
lead to the goal setting, whichis what I was gonna ask you
about, but you've answered thatfor me already.
SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
Voyager Sopras Learning's evidence-based
programs are founded in thescience of reading and
incorporate systematic, explicitinstruction.
Our programs include LanguageLive by Dr.
Luisa Moats and Rewards by Dr.
Anita Archer.
Learn more at VoyagerSopras.comforward slash reading.
SPEAKER_03 (14:29):
So we set these goals with our core teacher and
teachers who are providing thatintervention, right?
And then we are looking at anupward trajectory for students.
Is that the idea, Elsa?
SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
What I want to say is I want to express this and
tell you what I see inclassrooms is I observe
classrooms with multilinguallearners and or even in their
small group instruction.
A lot of times what I see arethese little helpers like
(15:03):
sentence stems.
Oh, well, we're gonna give you asentence starter to help you
because your languageproficiency may not be the same
as a monolingual Englishspeaker.
Okay, that makes sense to me.
But what is problematic aboutthat is that when I go in later
in the middle of the year, theend of the year, those same
(15:23):
sentence stems are being used.
The sentence stem was meant,Pam, to get us started.
But it wasn't meant for us touse.
It's meant for us to askourselves as instructors, why
did they need that sentencestem?
What do I get from theirlanguage to where they will no
longer need that?
How do I build their languagesystematically and explicitly so
(15:46):
they don't need a sentence stemto get this assignment done?
Right.
And what is it about theassignment that I'm giving that
will be super challenging forthe student?
Can I front load withinformation and with practice so
that I will gradually have thatrelease, right, of those extra
(16:06):
supports that they need?
So that's the idea.
Where are they today in languageand literacy?
Where am I going tomorrow?
And how can I intentionally planand practice with the students
so they can achieve and I canrelease some of these extra
helpers that they need.
SPEAKER_03 (16:26):
So that they can do some of the heavy lifting once
we give them the supports.
SPEAKER_02 (16:31):
Yes, they need the supports, and we know visual
supports help, verbal supportshelp, but direct instruction
makes the difference on what isit that they need so that they
can be successful in the task athand.
SPEAKER_03 (16:48):
And again, that goes back to the interdisciplinary
collaboration that you'remaking, setting a goal.
So these goals that you'resetting are consistently
changing.
Is that what you're saying,Elsa?
SPEAKER_02 (16:59):
That's right.
They should be, and they shouldbe very explicit too.
And they should be wellpracticed.
Well, lots of opportunities.
We're finding that studentsaren't getting enough
opportunities for languageexpression, whether that be
orally or in written form, andfor that understanding, right?
And so I like to think about, Icall this my four T's, like even
(17:21):
for language, instead of waitingfor everyone to respond, we use
the four T's think, turn, talk,then come back and tell to me,
right?
So everybody had a chance forengagement.
And that engagement, as anEnglish learner, you are more
willing to risk in a kind ofsmaller group setting than you
(17:43):
are in the large group setting.
But in this way, everyone got torespond, everyone got to think
about and practice theirresponse, and then they got to
report out.
And so we need more practice,practice with language, practice
with literacy.
SPEAKER_03 (18:00):
All right, and this is a way because when you were
speaking, I kept hearing insidemy head practice.
This is a perfect way forleveraging time and practice.
I love that example that yougave us, Elsa.
So helpful for teachers.
How do we help our educators tomove from what we know we need
to do, the research as you laidout in structured literacy, to
(18:24):
the actual practice?
How do we support teachers touse what we've learned,
especially when it comes tointensive intervention?
SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
Yeah, what I think too, that's just really amazing
to me as I work with teachers.
I really see that if we couldreally show them routines about
just like we show routines tothe students, our teachers need
routines to get them started.
Like this is how you canincorporate all the things that
I'm saying, how you canincorporate language in those
(18:57):
language components into yourliteracy components.
And when you give them thoseroutines about how to do this,
then it's like, I got this.
I don't need them anymore.
I know exactly what to do now.
And I'm watching how thestudents respond.
And now, because you gave methis so explicitly and
systematically, now I know howto scaffold that language, how
(19:20):
to scaffold that literacy basedupon how they're responding.
It helps me to be morediagnostic and prescriptive in
my teaching.
So again, I'm looking for thespecific responses so that I can
kind of change, alter a littlebit what I've given.
And really it helps me to thinkon my feet, to think quickly,
(19:43):
because we have to be ready,right, with those scaffolds,
right?
We either go up or we releasethem as they respond to us.
SPEAKER_03 (19:51):
Right.
Refining that science ofteaching, right?
Being very diagnostic andprescriptive on the spot,
because this is another waywhere we're getting.
Gaining that data and respondingto it.
That's right.
Absolutely love it.
Thank you.
What advice do you have fordistrict leaders who want to
build a more equitable literacysystem for diverse learners?
(20:13):
We've got all kinds of studentsin my school.
How do I help and support theneeds of my teachers and the
needs of my students?
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
So, what I want to say, Pam, what you've just
brought up is so very important.
There needs to be aninfrastructure in place.
And where does thatinfrastructure begin?
It begins with the leadership.
It begins with having the systemin place that's going to support
our teachers, right?
To deliver this culturally andlinguistically evidence-based
(20:43):
practices to our students andalso engaging our families.
We often forget about ourfamilies as partners in this
whole process.
And that way, but first as aleader, I have to know about the
evidence.
I have to know about what Iexpect.
And I say, like, what am Iexpecting from our teachers?
(21:06):
And how can I give them thatsupport?
We have 10 years of work, and itwas work sponsored by the Office
of Special Education Programs.
And it was really about bringingthe science of our teaching and
the science of language andliteracy into the classrooms.
And it's at a website calledMTSS, the number four, lsel.org.
(21:32):
And right there, if you'rewanting leadership out there and
we're wanting to look at how dowe implement these
multiple-tiered systems, right?
(21:53):
Hey, let's look at how you aredoing screeners from this lens
of these students.
How are you progress monitoring?
How are you identifying forstruggles?
And how are you intervening forthose struggles?
And have you considered each ofthese variables?
And at what level have youconsidered them?
(22:14):
And so that's our rubric that wehave on MTSS4Ls.org, all
available, all sponsored by ourUnited States government, and
that still exists on a website.
And so I really encourage notonly the teachers to look at
this, but all leaders to makesure that you have that
infrastructure that will supportour teachers, our students, and
(22:38):
their families to be successful.
SPEAKER_03 (22:41):
Basically having a nice strong system to work with
so you can build that success.
That structure needs to bethere.
Right?
All right, awesome.
Well, finally, what gives youhope about the future of
literacy instruction forstudents who struggle?
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
What gives me hope, like today and every day
forward, is I am starting toreally realize, I think about,
look today, Elsa, finally we'vearrived at this topic being a
national of national importance.
And what gives me suchexcitement is when I get to meet
with school leaders and teachersand community leaders, and
(23:23):
everyone wants to do right bythese students.
Everyone believes in literacyfor all.
And what we see now is a moreopen-mindedness to what we've
learned.
I am so happy that after decadesof work, that people are now
listening to the science behindwhat we do, and that we are more
(23:45):
increasing that shared languageamongst all kinds of this
interdisciplinary approaches.
And that we are now seeingreally districts and schools and
teachers, leaders, schoolleaders really focused on
improving the language andliteracy outcomes of all
(24:07):
students and willing to do theextra work that it takes for all
children to succeed.
SPEAKER_03 (24:15):
Now I understand.
This is how the passion forliteracy learning is fed and
grows and continues.
SPEAKER_02 (24:26):
Yes, it's wonderful for you to say that.
So I say share what you know,what specific interventions,
share your knowledge, co-plan,align your vocabulary and your
comprehension strategies withmaybe those foundational skills
strategies, check in, take thetime to collaborate and have
(24:48):
those brief meetings that youneed to review the data, to see
where we are with the students,and really to meet their needs
based upon how they'reresponding in every level of
instruction and especially inthat targeted instruction.
SPEAKER_03 (25:04):
Finally, what gives you hope about the future of
literacy instruction forstudents who struggle?
SPEAKER_02 (25:14):
I'm so hopeful because today I see the great
intention and the focus on allstudents, but especially
students from linguisticallydiverse backgrounds.
And I see that leaders andschool teachers and also
families really want to doright.
So they're sharing the data,knowing about what the skills
(25:37):
are, working together as teammembers for the outcomes of our
students, co-planning onfoundational skills of literacy
versus those importantvocabulary that I mentioned and
comprehension, but also takingthe time to meet with each other
and do a very interdisciplinaryapproach.
(26:00):
And I say literacy, it's thebridge to equity.
And every student has that rightfor literacy.
SPEAKER_03 (26:10):
This has been such a wonderfully informative and
insightful conversation.
We thank you, Dr.
Cardinius Hagen, for sharingyour knowledge and experience
with our audience today.
And thank you to our listenersfor joining us for this
insightful conversation with Dr.
Cardenas Hagen.
Her experience and passion forliteracy, equity reminds us that
(26:35):
every student, especially thosewho are multilingual or
struggling, deserves access toinstruction that is explicit,
systematic, and grounded inresearch.
That's it for another greatEdview 360 podcast.
Please join us again next monthand visit VoyagerSopris.com
slash Edview to learn about ourwebinars, blogs, and other
(26:58):
products.
This has been Pam Austin, and wehope to see you all again soon.
SPEAKER_00 (27:04):
This has been an Edview 360 podcast.
For additional thought-provokingdiscussions, sign up for our
blog, webinar, and podcastseries at VoyagerSopris.com
slash Edview360.
If you enjoyed the show, we'dlove a five star review wherever
you listen to podcasts and tohelp other people like you find
(27:27):
our show.
Thank you.
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