January 30, 2025 • 41 mins
The episode features Justin Dring, a renewable energy expert and entrepreneur, sharing his journey from electrician to leader in sustainability. During the conversation, Jessica and Justin talk about the importance of adaptability in leadership, the drive to protect the environment, and the critical role of communication in fostering collaboration across cultural boundaries.
• Justin's early background as an apprentice electrician
• The evolution of his leadership style through different roles
• A personal awakening to the need for sustainability
• Adapting leadership in various cultural contexts
• Overcoming obstacles within the renewable energy sector
• The vital importance of building trust during challenging times
• Promising future developments in the UK solar market
• Educating traditional industries on the benefits of solar energy
• Rewards and fulfillment found in mentorship and guiding others
• Key advice for emerging leaders to take risks and foster relationships
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Sustainability Unveiled, the
podcast that explores bold ideasand transformative solutions,
driving sustainability andbusiness success.
In this episode, we're thrilledto feature Justin Dring, a
passionate entrepreneur,renewable energy advocate and
problem solver.
With over 25 years ofexperience in the energy sector,
(00:28):
Justin has built a career onnavigating complex challenges
with innovative, tailoredsolutions.
From fostering strategicbusiness partnerships to
spearheading large-scalerenewable energy projects, His
work embodies the perfectbalance of sustainability and
value.
Justin is a pioneer inintegrating advanced monitoring,
(00:50):
metering and IoT technologies,empowering businesses to reduce
waste, optimize energy use andthrive in a rapidly evolving
energy landscape.
Beyond his technicalachievements, Justin is deeply
committed to educating businessleaders and advocating for
renewable energy technologies tofoster a sustainable future.
(01:13):
Join us as we uncover insightsfrom Justin's journey, explore
strategies for resiliency inturbulent times and discover
what it takes to lead in therenewable energy revolution.
This is Sustainability Unveiled,where sustainability meets
leadership.
Let's get started.
(01:34):
Well, Justin, thank you so muchfor being on the podcast today.
We really appreciate you takingtime out of your schedule to be
on with us, and I'd love foryou just to give our audience a
little bit about your background.
You know we can read about youon LinkedIn, so something else
besides what we can read onLinkedIn, and then just some
(01:55):
about your journey.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah.
So I started at the grassrootsof energy and engineering as an
apprentice electrician of energyand engineering.
As an apprentice electricianManaged to get a job straight
from school as an electricianwith a council.
So that was a big jump intoreality seeing how other people
live and out there fixingproblems, and became an
(02:19):
electrician pretty quick.
So four years training therereally enjoyed that but was
hungry to get out and kind oftry and make a name for myself.
And uh ended up setting up myown business as an electrician.
Um built a small propertycompany looking after properties
as well as um, as well as doingM&E work electrical work over
(02:41):
here, which was which is goodand exciting um, and that that
grew into quite a few fewmembers of staff.
We had fun with that.
Um.
And then um, I, uh, we moved onbecause solar was moves, solar
was starting um, so started asolar company on the back of
that and uh, and and yeah, hadloads of fun and um.
(03:02):
Some of the turbulent times hitus in the UK energy market with
feeding tariffs coming and goingand companies going bust.
So in that instance we had toclose one of the solar companies
that I was running, which wasdevastating, but we recovered.
I went to work in a corporateenvironment for guys delivering
(03:22):
commercial, so kind of dipped mytoe into the commercial world,
which was very, very interesting.
Again, a kind of an awakeningmoment of going, wow, these guys
move fast, they work hard, longhours, just like the lads in
the SME market, just like thelads on the tools.
Really enjoyed that.
And then, yeah, eventually cameout of that, built my own
(03:46):
company again and, yeah, justexited from that last year.
So and now I've been consultingsince then.
So that's a whistle stop tourof my journey.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Of your journey.
Well, you have a vastexperience, obviously in
different leadership roles.
A vast experience, obviously,in different leadership roles.
And so, really, how have youseen your transformation as a
leader?
From your start, you know, asan apprentice, learning the
trade and then buildingcompanies, working in the
corporate world.
What really has, you know,continued your drive to want to
(04:21):
help other companies and seewhat you can really bring to the
table to help them besuccessful?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, my leadership journeys.
Yes, it's interesting, isn't it?
Because you find out, oh, I'mleading.
Now I've got people followingme like people doing as I've
done, and so, as an apprentice,that got quite interesting when
we weren't doing what we weresupposed to be doing, when we
were.
Probably you'd use the termgoofing off, but we'd say that
(04:52):
too.
But you realize you've kind ofgot an influence that's beyond
your role or your title on thesites and that can be good or
bad.
You can lead people either way.
So finding that out in in thatarea was was good and
interesting.
Um, and yeah, then then seeingthat develop.
So the the kind of leadershipelement of, ah, I've actually
(05:14):
people do what I say, um was Irealized that at work, because
people do what you do when,because you're paying them and
you're the boss.
But in the voluntary sector,when I've worked in there as
well, and at the same time asbeing an electrician, I was also
working in a voluntaryorganisation helping out with a
band at the time it was, and yourealise, in that world you need
(05:37):
a different style of leadershipand a different way of leading
people.
So in that it kind of was twodifferent worlds and it's always
been two different worlds of.
Some people will follow youbecause you're paying them and
they have to follow you as theleader.
Sometimes they'll follow youbecause your name's over the
door, so in some circumstancesI've been the sole owner and
(06:01):
runner of the business.
And then, in partnerships,sometimes you'll have people
within the organization thatwill not do whatever you ask
them to do.
It doesn't matter how good aleader you are, whether you woo
them or whether you demand andshout, or whether you come up
with all these intricate bonusschemes for them to hit targets.
Yeah, leadership is aninteresting journey and I'm
(06:24):
still learning.
I'm still learning.
I'm still learning and stillfinding loads of stuff out.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And I think that's the case for anybody who's an
entrepreneur.
It's trial and error andpushing those boundaries and
seeing really what you canaccomplish individually, but
with your team too.
Now I want to get back tofocusing on sustainability,
energy, innovation.
So, really, what inspired youto get into this line of work
besides just, you know, beinggoing to the apprentice school
(06:53):
to be an electrician?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh yeah, so in the in the very, very early years of
in when when payment, so theybrought in what's called a
feeding tariff in the uk wherethey there was a big advertising
campaign of like getting intosolar and helping, helping be
sustainable and this is atechnology that's um accessible
and and I think as as anelectrician realizing all this,
(07:18):
we can, we can make a differencehere if we start putting these
solar panels on.
But then actually I think what,what really struck home for me
with sustainability and why I'vestayed in energy, is probably
because when I was really young,like seeing nature and seeing
(07:38):
the damage that we have had onour environment, is you can see
that in kind of your um like wewere on holiday as a family and
snorkeling and you can see allthese beautiful fish and these
beautiful colors and you can seethe damage.
Like going snorkeling and andenjoying holiday like 10 years
later you can see the differencein the environment.
(07:59):
You can see um miles of deadcoral over in in in the maldives
and places like that, likethat's.
That's where I was when I seenall of that and that and seeing
those types of things impactedme as because I want, I want it.
I want the world to be a betterplace.
I want the, obviously the.
We don't want to damage thisenvironment that we've, we've
been, we've been given and youcan see, you can, you can
(08:21):
actively see that in in lightpollution, in loads and loads of
different ways, and realizingthat every solar panel that we
put on is a tiny bit back ofprotecting that for our kids for
the next 10 or 15 generations.
So it really is more than justbeing in sustainability and
(08:44):
being energy and and almostbeing on your soapbox and
preaching carbon.
It does get a bit repetitive,but it doesn't doesn't get any.
You don't get any lesspassionate, because the
environment still needs peopleto, to, to be standing up for it
, still needs people to bechampion, champion in the carbon
um, playing games with the kids, getting them to turn lights
(09:07):
off.
It's not because I'm a skinflint, it's not because I'm,
it's not because I should.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Uh, yeah, I should bring my husband in.
Who's who's off from schooltoday.
The lights in the house.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I'm, I'm guilty of that too, but he, yeah, he's,
he's harping on the kidsconstantly about that but
getting them, getting themenjoying it and having some fun
with it, like, come on, boys,let's, let's have a, have a race
so you can turn the most lightsoff, they suddenly then getting
them aware of it is is, is abig, big part of of having and
it's the same in business likeyou can walk into the boardroom
(09:39):
and they'll have the window open, the air con on, then the
heating on, and you're like guys, what, what are you?
you and you can, because you cansound like a bat, like you're
pointing and telling people off,but actually you're just there
going like let's just turn ourbrains on.
Let's like a kid, go turn thelight, switch off, let's have
some fun with it.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Okay, no, I like that , yes and relatable, and you're
getting your kids involved andI'm sure that what you do in
your professional life doestranscend to your personal life
too and having thoseconversations with your kids,
which obviously is something ifyou are a listener to the show.
We do talk about the bridgingthe gap between different
generations, which is one of ourmain focuses of this company.
(10:21):
You're based in England and Iknow you do a lot of work in
England consulting, but you'vealso worked in other countries,
you've worked abroad, so howhave you had to adjust your
leadership style to differentcultural differences within
these countries that you areworking with or consulting in?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Oh it's, it's massively different.
So the, the, I'd say the common, the common thread, the kind of
starter point is, is the kindof worth, ethic and the, the,
the kind of weight that peoplefeel on on energy efficiencies
and like everything aroundsustainability and helping their
environment.
They, they, they've all got asimilar core value, but how that
(11:06):
is, how that is led and howthat's worked out, is very, very
different and in in differentcommunities.
So, um, for example, um, I gotthe honor of working over in
africa consulting on an off-gridproject over there, very, very
exciting um it was.
It was a mini grid, it was kindof cutting edge at the time we
were doing it and it was leadingthe guys in that environment of
(11:32):
helping them be safe, helpingthem deliver the, helping them
hit their targets as well asthem to get the kit working.
So, because I'm an engineer atheart and because of my
experience back in the in theday, um, when I turn up on a
site and there's guys strugglingto to deliver sustainable,
sustainable um resource and andthis, these, these off-grid um
(11:57):
systems that you can't helpyourself but kind of not just
stand and write a report and andthat's one thing, but then to
go and help them, but you can'twalk across and almost come out
of your lane to go and tellsomebody what to do.
It does take that kind of thatleadership of going oh hang on a
minute, I know how to lead inBritish culture, which is one
(12:19):
thing, but then putting the hangon, I'm in Africa.
How do I now relate to thisperson?
How do, how do I make sure wewere speaking the same language
English but obviously speakingthe same language as in their
values and how, how they, howthey work and how you get still
get the high quality work out ofthose guys, as well as
(12:42):
communicating the value of rightWork out of those guys, as well
as communicating the value ofright we yes, we could go home
now because that's, it's thattime, but you've only got me for
so long.
Let's, let's stay so.
So, communicating and helpingthat shift and that pivot of of
leading people in into producingbetter results through
(13:02):
communication and connection,better results through
communication and connection.
And you know what?
We had a good laugh and theguys that were on those sites
were flipping, hardworking menand women, absolutely brilliant
team over there deliveringprojects and when they hit the
sweet spot, of drive andeverybody's pulling together.
(13:23):
They're relentless when theyrealize you're not against them,
because a lot of the time, as aas an engineer, you can
sometimes come across because wedo know.
We know enough to be dangerous,we know enough to be lethal, but
we can come across as aknow-it-all and and actually
we're not in in the roles thatwe get put in when we we can
(13:45):
sometimes come across as thatknow-it-all, but it's our role
as a leader to change that hatfrom English culture to an
African culture and be able tocommunicate.
Hey, this is the way we need todo this to be safe, but then on
the same hand, we need to getthis finished and trying to
communicate.
That it's exciting and fun andit translates into other
(14:06):
cultures as well.
So, working in different partsof Africa again the culture
changes.
We had one engineer thattravelled for like 30-odd hours
on the back of a bus just sothat he could work with the team
that was there.
So there's chalk and cheesewith people as well, even within
culture, which is reallyexciting, and the fact that we
(14:30):
get to do energy and get to doleadership it's great.
It's great getting to do bothat the same time.
So yeah very tricky, very tricky.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And I can see and I'm sure our audience will see too
just how passionate you areabout the work you do, and
obviously it's not all.
You know sunshine, so what?
Talk to me a little bit aboutsome of the obstacles that
you've had to face as a leader.
You know internationally, butalso you know home in England
(15:02):
and how you address you know theobstacles, how you worked
through them and you know justsome of the differences there.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, yeah, so, um.
So some of the turbulences umare with, with, with people.
I find it's either an internalturbulence or an external
turbulence.
So with um, with leading a teamand leading a group of
individuals, whether UK oranywhere, they, they.
If, if somebody's coming to youwith a series set of
engineering problems and theperson has got a problem, so
(15:31):
there's an internal storm, thatthat could be anything from the
payslip was wrong to they gotout of the bed, the wrong side,
the bus, the bus was late.
There's almost seeing theperson behind the engineering
problem that's coming to you andas a, as a leader in
engineering world, it's veryeasy for us to to put the helmet
on or or to put the suit on andlead on, but actually if we
(15:53):
hear the person behind theproblem, we'll get a better
solution out of that person anda better drive from them,
because we've actually heard andunderstood there's an internal
conflict.
It's not just all of these, notjust the materials haven't
turned up on time, the qualityor the quantity isn't right for
this project, or we've run outof solar panels on a job.
(16:17):
We were supposed to have athousand and we've got 800.
Those types of fun things.
If you see past the person andsee past the problem and and
hear if, if there's so, there'sthose.
There's those two internal andexternal things that are tricky
to lead with and tricky to um,uh, work, work with and and
(16:37):
sometimes it does go wrong.
So I've, I've, obviously I've,I've been in a, in a, in a
partnership agreement wherewe've been running a business
together and both of us both ofus were super passionate about
um leading for a better future,super passionate about saving
the planet.
Both of us really, reallyresonated with each other in the
(16:59):
area of call, so in what wewanted to do, but then how we
wanted to get there was very,very different.
So I wanted to build men andbuild teams and system and
process, whereas my partner atthe time in business, he wanted
(17:20):
to scale a business, to sell itand move on and develop in the
sales and in moving intoacquiring other businesses.
So that was a time when, whenyou, when you're 50 50, it's
very, very difficult to um keepa team underneath you, motivated
to deliver projects on time, umto be customer facing.
Everything's okay, um, it'salmost like everything's okay,
(17:44):
but my bosses are falling out,so it's like one of those really
the the team could sense thatthere was a change coming.
They knew that we were headingin different directions.
And leading in that change iskeeping the team right and
finishing projects right infront of the clients and in
(18:04):
front of what was going on, butthen also being true to like
letting him finish his race inhis lane.
And I think the the mutualunderstanding when, when
companies do do that and whenindividuals and leaders do do
that and realize that therelationship grows and develops.
And actually it's okay forbusinesses, business leaders, to
(18:26):
grow apart within organizations, because one of the one of the
things as a leader is sometimesjust people follow you.
I've had team follow me throughthree of those companies.
I've had one or two guys thathave followed me every step of
the way, and it's not becauseI've gone back and poached them,
it's because they've gone hey,where are we working?
And I'm like we're designingnow, mate, we're not doing that
(18:49):
anymore and they just want to be.
Once you've won somebody andyou've helped them through their
problems and you've run out ofproblems, you've got that
journey with that person, thenyou've almost won them to a
point of they're more than justan employee, they're more than
just turning up for a paycheck.
They're turning up to want tobe be with with you and fight
(19:11):
your battles and help you withyour problems and and and that's
that's a really interestingthing.
So when you do have division andyou've got two guys going in
two directions even though weboth had different relationships
with guys on both teams at thesame time um, it was, it was
very, very interesting and andand you know what, looking back,
it was tough at the time.
But now, with that greaterknowledge of going, hey, we led.
(19:34):
We led our teams well throughthat, because the business has
carried on.
He, he's carried on running thebusiness, he's carried on
running both of them and keepingthe teams together.
He lost a few of the guys, butyou know what, like everybody's
better off for it he, he'sgetting to build the business
that he wanted.
He's getting to go in thedirection that he wanted, and,
and and I'm I'm getting to dothe things that I needed to do.
(19:56):
So it's, it's a um, it's aninteresting thing.
Just leading, leading throughthose times is is very
interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
It definitely is and it requires, you know,
leadership in forming a sense oftrust within your team.
So how do you think you youknow you and your former partner
were able to establish thetrust that is needed to have
projects continue during theturbulent time, as you mentioned
, when you guys were splittingand going into different
(20:25):
directions?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So we, we made a, we made an active decision, um, of
of doing a.
I, I will, I will, I will stepback, I'll, I'll let.
Let you take the reins of this,this, this, this and this, um
and the.
The beauty of at the time, wetimed it that I was, I was able
to pass on, and so we'd trainedand developed about 26 internal
(20:53):
staff on our side of thebusiness to be able to deliver
projects, and they had theirchecklists, they had their
systems and processes.
So for them it was business asusual.
It was just the top seat,wasn't there?
The phone, I wonder what weshould do about this problem.
(21:13):
Where's, where's, where'sjustin?
Um, that phone call was going.
Ah, do you know what?
He's not around.
I'll call the other guy.
So, because we'd set everythingup so well, down, down down to
the, the process of buying, theprocess of approaching a problem
, the process of, of, ofdelivering a, a solution,
whether it, whether it be aenergy saving one, a metering
(21:36):
one, a monitoring one, a solar,whatever we were doing at the
time, that doesn't matter, it'sthe process, isn't it?
That then the team could, couldanchor themselves in.
Oh, we're all right, businessas usual, we've got projects,
the, the other, the my partnerkept the business flowing.
He kept more leads coming in,so he kept the team moving and
(21:56):
developing um, which was great,which which was absolutely great
.
So it's, it's the, it's thetrust and the faith in each
other, in in those moments andum.
You only get that throughhaving built three, four years
of solid, like late nights inthe office, long drives together
.
You know each other, you knowyou know each other at that
(22:17):
point that he's got this, he'sgot this, he's going to, he's
going to look after this becausethey are family.
At that point that he's goingto look after my, this, this
group that we've.
We've grown.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So, yeah, it's good, it it's interesting, it's an
interesting time, great questionyeah, so really, you know, the
foundation of any relationshipis communication and and having
effective communication, and itseems like that you really have
established.
So do you have a blueprint forwhat worked for you in terms of
passing that on to othercompanies, or what you use as
(22:49):
you?
You know, go into differentconsultancy roles.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Do you know what?
Because everybody's sodifferent, it flips and it flips
and changes.
So because of the differentpersonality types, that that
you've got it, it really itreally does like it does matter
what personality types areleading are leading teams.
I've with with personaldevelopment.
We With personal development.
We used to sit down with ourteam leaders and get them to do
(23:15):
their personal assessments sothey could work out how they
fitted together.
But every situation isdifferent because people have
got different skill sets.
So in my role at the moment, Ican come across companies that
are brilliant at sales and gotno operational sense.
And then I come acrosscompanies that have got the
(23:36):
ability to deliver millions ofpounds worth of product or of
service but really struggle tosell.
So it's it's in energy.
It's really interesting,especially in the UK, because
it's it's an industry where guyshave grown doing what they do
best.
So you may have an electricianthat's amazing at fitting
(23:58):
boilers or amazing at CHP oramazing air source heat, and
he's out there all day, everyday, doing that, but then when
he comes to sell it, it's a,it's another.
They're not used to that.
So there's there's all thesedifferent, all these different
things.
Uh, all these different thingsgoing off and there's so much
the.
The scope for solar in the ukat the minute is massive, so
(24:18):
it's, it is, it's almost, um,it's almost like a free-for-all.
It's, uh, there's so much workthere's only five.
We've only done five percent ofour roofs.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
So that's I remember yeah, real number like between
5% and 8%.
Yeah, when we met talking aboutthis and it's just so
interesting to see thedifferences between the United
States talking to you and the UKand the role of solar.
So obviously it's a veryexciting trend that solar is
increasing in the UK.
(24:47):
But what else can you tell ouraudience about the level of
solar, not just residential butcommercial too, and what excites
you the most about the nextfive to 10 years?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So the UK is really really interesting.
So there's so many.
Our utility is broken up intodifferent DNOs, network
operators that look afterdifferent sections of the
country, and all of them havegot kind of a different set of
rules and a different processfor getting projects through.
(25:21):
So in certain areas of the UKyou can come up with a project a
couple of megawatts on a roofor a couple of megawatts in a
field, or even quite a largecommercial installation, and the
national grid in that locationwill help you.
They're process is slick,they're fast at getting back to
you.
They'll quote and say, yes, youcan turn this much power on
(25:44):
here, or hey, we need to limityou.
So the market's really excitingin some of those areas.
In others of those areas it's alittle bit slow.
Now I'm not going to name them,but some of them are a little
bit slow and a little bit If Isaid the old boys club you'd
(26:06):
know what I meant Kind of thatkind of remit and and it's
tricky hey to, you've got somany different solar companies,
so many different developers,all all rolling out different
schemes.
Um, I think some of some of thereally interesting stuff in in
the uk um is is utility scalebattery.
(26:27):
We're seeing that gettinggetting deployed quite a lot at
the moment.
There's quite a lot in planning.
So our network operators haveactually said, regarding battery
, if it's over a megawattthere's a massive waiting queue
(26:47):
and they almost do a first firstcome, first serve with the,
with the projects.
So your project has got to be,um, ready to go.
They call it spade ready, don'tthey?
So that that that developmenthas literally got to be ready to
hit the road running.
Because that capacity agreement, the, the availability of of
(27:08):
power on the grid, because ourgrid's ancient ag, we got
victorian cable still running insome places.
Don't tell anyone, um, and and,but that's just.
That's because we're an oldcountry and because, like some
of our roads have, we can't digthem up.
We, you know, I mean we can't,we can't do certain things in
certain locations.
So rolling out an ev network isis really tricky because you
(27:29):
got to find those little spotson the grid that have got the
available headroom, have got theavailable capacity and the and
the pull that that puts on thenational grid.
And then you've got guyswanting to deliver battery scale
(27:53):
solutions, utility scalesolutions, which are all over
the country.
They, they tend to be out inthe sticks by the 11 to 33, like
by the really big transformers,um, and they they take out of
sight, out of mind, um, but theyare providing grid balancing
because of our increasing evs,um.
So it's a really interestingand there's there's so many
(28:15):
different voices in in the ukenergy market of um, the, the
national grid guys needing moremoney for infrastructure, um,
and the, the installers of solarsmall scale, medium scale,
saying we're not paying for it,alongside the government trying
to say we're going to do thisnew green bill and we're going
(28:35):
to do this, this and this forfeeding tariff or export tariff.
So it's really that soturbulent times, so leading in
turbulence, is exactly that thatyou've.
You've got clients who want todeliver renewable, want to
deliver one, want to um.
(28:56):
One of my clients, uh, wants tohave a full fleet of evs, wants
to have a full building of, soit wants to be carbon negative
and and the grid in his areacan't take it and he's hearing
all three voices at the sametime.
So he's he's hearing thegovernment say, yes, we want to
invest and and a strong businesscase from from our, from our
government saying yes, we wantto invest and a strong business
case from our government sayingwe're green, we want to go this
direction.
You've also, at the same time,got the national grid saying we
(29:18):
can't deliver this because ofrestraints in your area, because
we've got things to improve Atthe same time as then the
installer going well, we candeliver this, this and this
product, but only in thesetimescales.
So you do have that turbulenceof giving him the right advice,
helping him through, finding theright financial solution, never
(29:40):
mind the right product to fitthose three things.
And then the client might askyou about future proofing and
you're like well, which?
Which conversation should welisten to here?
So it is.
Do you know what Like leadingin turbulence and developing a
sales team in this environmentis is exciting because you need
to teach the ability for them topivot in, even in a, in a
(30:04):
presentation or even in aconsultative role with a client
or with developing an installer.
It's a really interesting timeand energy in the UK and there
is so much opportunity withinthat as well.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
So I want to go back.
There's a lot that you justsaid I want to go back to when
you mentioned the good old boysclub, the ones that might be a
little bit slower to get onboard.
So how do you work with them?
How do you make the businesscase for this group of
individuals to really buy in tosolar and the new technologies
(30:45):
and not just have it be statusquo?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So, yeah, it's a really, that's a really good one
, that's a really great question.
So, with when you've got aclient or you're developing a
team that's delivering somethingto that kind of environment, it
is very, it is very, veryinteresting.
So, um, educating those typesof that, that kind of group,
(31:11):
that those people with thatmindset, is very, very difficult
and quite challenging.
Um, what we've found isspeaking their language.
So, um, in in that environmentand and I know and I know I we
don't want to get any negativehere, but if I said that was a
kind of a typical small tomedium farmer.
So they are out in the sticks.
(31:32):
If they're going to put solaron, they're going to have to
reinforce their grid, so theyare slow to to respond to a good
idea, a good offering.
Yet they're some of them have arunning generators because they
can't they can't upgrade theirmains or upgrade the, the loop,
or they're uh, they're producingmilk and they've got all those
(31:53):
types of things to deal with.
Um, so, if we're dealing withone of those types of scenarios,
um, it really is the numbers.
It really like they're speaking, speaking the numbers, speaking
like you're spending this much,we can save you this much,
looking at, looking at the wideroption of of communicating that
in a way that they understandof this is this is almost like
(32:17):
you, a year's profit on yourmilk or your eggs or your
whatever that element is in thatrespect, whatever that element
is in in that respect, um, youalso bump into that archetypal,
that that kind of personalitytrait, um, in heavy industry and
in in commercial engineering aswell, um, where they've always
done it this way and you,there's no, there's, there's no
(32:38):
way they're gonna look atputting anything on their roof.
Um, and and again, the numbers,the numbers.
You don't need to wait for achange of leadership within an
organization when you've got acompany, that's, if they had
this solution, it would savethem £40,000 a year.
Or, if they have this solutionwith a massive company, it could
(33:02):
save them £300,000, £400,000 ayear.
Then every month counts.
So then you break it down toevery day you're losing, you're
losing this amount of money outyour door.
Um, and and the be the be realor let's not play, is also very
useful.
And and also like with ifyou're leading a team of
salesmen or engineers, or orwhen the two, you you've got
(33:25):
salesmen and engineerscommunicating chps and stuff
like that, like pulling them inand going, hey, if that, if
that's not going to go, let'snot waste resource, internal
resource, on chasing somethingthat is is just going to, is
just going to die if they've notgot the inner desire.
If they're, if, if there's anopportunity that you can't
qualify, then walk away.
(33:47):
If it's not got a qualifyingcriteria, if there's genuinely
no desire to be green, to jumpon our bandwagon, to come and
save the planet with us, then wecan't force them onto the bus.
We can't, and there's no pointmanipulating them onto the bus
(34:08):
or arguing.
If you argue, in the endthey'll get argued out.
There's no point.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, exactly.
All you can do is provide thedata and the evidence and be
transparent with them, andultimately, it's a decision that
they have to make as either asmall business or medium size or
a large company.
So I like that.
You do have experience workingwith different size businesses
(34:38):
and I really I know we've beenhaving this conversation now for
a long time and I'm reallyenjoying sitting down with you
to learn more about what ittakes to be a leader through
turbulent times and how yourexperience has really shaped.
You know the companies that youhave formed, as well as you
know the workers, the employeesthat you've had with you.
But, looking back, what do youthink has been the most
(35:01):
rewarding part of your career?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
rewarding part of your career.
That's a brilliant one, so themost, the most rewarding thing.
So I'm walking down the highstreet.
I'm walking down the highstreet and in central Manchester
it was and I hear somebodyshout my name and I recognize
the voice as being the voice ofone of my apprentices from years
and years and years ago.
And I turn around and there isLiam running down the street in
all of his gear, in all of hiselectrician's gear, gives me a
(35:32):
big hug and says, hey, justin,thank you.
And I say what for mate, likeI've not seen you in years, like
I've seen him on Facebook.
He got married and stuff likethat, and he won't mind me using
his name.
And he'd literally got marriedand stuff like that, and he
won't mind me using his name.
And he'd literally he'd set uphis own, he'd been a let, he'd
become an electrician underneathme years and years ago and
seeing him develop into being um, running a great company, like
(35:58):
looking after some guys of hisown, servicing clients, like
delivering projects, um, andthen and then just getting the
thank you.
Um, money's, money's one thing,isn't it like it?
Yeah, we, it's great to havemoney, um, but a thank you goes
so much further and I think thatwas probably one of one of my
defining moments of uh of doingit and probably one of my my
(36:21):
super superpower moments of uhin turbulent times when I need
to fix myself on something goinghey, remember that down the
street those staff are worth it.
Those tough conversations ofplease up your game, come on,
please be on time, please getfinished on time, please submit
your forms it's worth thoseawkward conversations to get a
lad running down the street what?
(36:42):
15, 20 years later?
Um, saying thank you for thethank you for telling me off and
thank you for looking after meand thank you for training me.
So, yeah, there's a few ofthose types of guys around and
occasionally, when you bump intothem, you get a really proud,
really proud moment.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Oh, I'm sure you do so.
I mean, obviously, the workthat you did with him inspired
him to start his own business.
So what advice do you have foremerging leaders?
Or you know people who are, Isay kids, but you know teenage,
late teenagers, early 20s, whoare really navigating these
major challenges of decidingwhat they're going to go into.
(37:22):
Or you know those who want tojump in and start their own
companies.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Oh, do you know what I'd say?
Go for it.
Like, there's so much learningto do, don't get stuck in
paralysis analysis, don't getstuck analyzing everything.
It's much easier to turn a turna moving ship.
So I'd say go, go for it, gofor it, try, try, have a go.
(37:49):
Um.
One of one of my mentorsgrowing up would always say have
a go.
You mug um and I'm still havinga go.
So uh, that's uh, and thatnever, that never wears out.
Um, take people with you.
So Liam, the young lad that ranup the street, said thank you.
Like, if you take people withyou on the journey, um, a leader
(38:10):
off by himself's an idiot on awalk.
So a leader has got followers.
So let's like taking peoplewith you massive, really,
massively important, even evenif it's not even employed, but
just with you in the journey oflike finding, finding those um
people doing business alongsideyou.
At the same time, it can be incompletely different um
(38:31):
businesses.
One of one of my close friendsis is a plumber and and and he's
been doing his thing in hislane and we, we still get on,
even even now, with me doingwhat I do and him doing what he
does.
It's those, those types ofchampion people that champion
you, um is is really important,um, and I'd say, yeah, I think,
(38:54):
um, I think, having having theallowing people to give you
their best advice at the righttime so there's list listening
to people, people, and not beingscared to ask what would you
have done differently, you canavoid.
20 years, 10 years.
(39:15):
So be teachable is what I'mtrying to focus on, because, as
a 18 to 35, 18 to 20, we watch alot of YouTube and that can
teach us a lot.
But there's guys out there 35,45, guys in the industry, old
boys that have been selling foryears, and a five-minute
(39:37):
conversation with them canliterally remove miles of
minefield.
They remove you getting introuble with the bank, or you
getting in trouble with the bank, or you getting in trouble with
the tax man.
Just those, just those fiveminutes.
So I've probably got about fiveor six guys that even even now,
even even yesterday, I wassending one of them a proposal
I'm doing hey, he's been retireda long time, um, yet he can
(40:00):
still pick holes in somethingthat is is kind of in my world,
cutting edge in.
In his world it's, it's justbricks and mortar lad, um.
So, yeah, having those havingthose relationships and still
staying teachable, still stayingteachable fantastic lessons to
leave our audience with.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, justin, I hope this is not the last time that
we are going to have aconversation, because we'd love
to have you on again and and youknow to continue the
conversation and and check backin with you.
But thank you so much for beinga part of Sustainability
Unveiled.
We really do appreciate all ofthe leadership and guidance that
you shared today.
How can I contribute to abrighter, more sustainable
(40:40):
future, not just personally, butprofessionally?
Let's embark on this journeytogether and shape the landscape
of sustainable leadership fortomorrow.
Take the first step now andmake a commitment to lead with
sustainability in mind.
That's all for this episode ofSustainability Unveiled.
Join us next time as wecontinue exploring the forefront
(41:02):
of sustainable businesspractices.
Until then, stay informed, staysustainable.
Welcome to Sustainability Unveiled, the
podcast that explores bold ideasand transformative solutions,
driving sustainability andbusiness success.
In this episode, we're thrilledto feature Justin Dring, a
passionate entrepreneur,renewable energy advocate and
problem solver.
With over 25 years ofexperience in the energy sector,
(00:28):
Justin has built a career onnavigating complex challenges
with innovative, tailoredsolutions.
From fostering strategicbusiness partnerships to
spearheading large-scalerenewable energy projects, His
work embodies the perfectbalance of sustainability and
value.
Justin is a pioneer inintegrating advanced monitoring,
(00:50):
metering and IoT technologies,empowering businesses to reduce
waste, optimize energy use andthrive in a rapidly evolving
energy landscape.
Beyond his technicalachievements, Justin is deeply
committed to educating businessleaders and advocating for
renewable energy technologies tofoster a sustainable future.
(01:13):
Join us as we uncover insightsfrom Justin's journey, explore
strategies for resiliency inturbulent times and discover
what it takes to lead in therenewable energy revolution.
This is Sustainability Unveiled,where sustainability meets
leadership.
Let's get started.
(01:34):
Well, Justin, thank you so muchfor being on the podcast today.
We really appreciate you takingtime out of your schedule to be
on with us, and I'd love foryou just to give our audience a
little bit about your background.
You know we can read about youon LinkedIn, so something else
besides what we can read onLinkedIn, and then just some
(01:55):
about your journey.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah.
So I started at the grassrootsof energy and engineering as an
apprentice electrician of energyand engineering.
As an apprentice electricianManaged to get a job straight
from school as an electricianwith a council.
So that was a big jump intoreality seeing how other people
live and out there fixingproblems, and became an
(02:19):
electrician pretty quick.
So four years training therereally enjoyed that but was
hungry to get out and kind oftry and make a name for myself.
And uh ended up setting up myown business as an electrician.
Um built a small propertycompany looking after properties
as well as um, as well as doingM&E work electrical work over
(02:41):
here, which was which is goodand exciting um, and that that
grew into quite a few fewmembers of staff.
We had fun with that.
Um.
And then um, I, uh, we moved onbecause solar was moves, solar
was starting um, so started asolar company on the back of
that and uh, and and yeah, hadloads of fun and um.
(03:02):
Some of the turbulent times hitus in the UK energy market with
feeding tariffs coming and goingand companies going bust.
So in that instance we had toclose one of the solar companies
that I was running, which wasdevastating, but we recovered.
I went to work in a corporateenvironment for guys delivering
(03:22):
commercial, so kind of dipped mytoe into the commercial world,
which was very, very interesting.
Again, a kind of an awakeningmoment of going, wow, these guys
move fast, they work hard, longhours, just like the lads in
the SME market, just like thelads on the tools.
Really enjoyed that.
And then, yeah, eventually cameout of that, built my own
(03:46):
company again and, yeah, justexited from that last year.
So and now I've been consultingsince then.
So that's a whistle stop tourof my journey.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Of your journey.
Well, you have a vastexperience, obviously in
different leadership roles.
A vast experience, obviously,in different leadership roles.
And so, really, how have youseen your transformation as a
leader?
From your start, you know, asan apprentice, learning the
trade and then buildingcompanies, working in the
corporate world.
What really has, you know,continued your drive to want to
(04:21):
help other companies and seewhat you can really bring to the
table to help them besuccessful?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, my leadership journeys.
Yes, it's interesting, isn't it?
Because you find out, oh, I'mleading.
Now I've got people followingme like people doing as I've
done, and so, as an apprentice,that got quite interesting when
we weren't doing what we weresupposed to be doing, when we
were.
Probably you'd use the termgoofing off, but we'd say that
(04:52):
too.
But you realize you've kind ofgot an influence that's beyond
your role or your title on thesites and that can be good or
bad.
You can lead people either way.
So finding that out in in thatarea was was good and
interesting.
Um, and yeah, then then seeingthat develop.
So the the kind of leadershipelement of, ah, I've actually
(05:14):
people do what I say, um was Irealized that at work, because
people do what you do when,because you're paying them and
you're the boss.
But in the voluntary sector,when I've worked in there as
well, and at the same time asbeing an electrician, I was also
working in a voluntaryorganisation helping out with a
band at the time it was, and yourealise, in that world you need
(05:37):
a different style of leadershipand a different way of leading
people.
So in that it kind of was twodifferent worlds and it's always
been two different worlds of.
Some people will follow youbecause you're paying them and
they have to follow you as theleader.
Sometimes they'll follow youbecause your name's over the
door, so in some circumstancesI've been the sole owner and
(06:01):
runner of the business.
And then, in partnerships,sometimes you'll have people
within the organization thatwill not do whatever you ask
them to do.
It doesn't matter how good aleader you are, whether you woo
them or whether you demand andshout, or whether you come up
with all these intricate bonusschemes for them to hit targets.
Yeah, leadership is aninteresting journey and I'm
(06:24):
still learning.
I'm still learning.
I'm still learning and stillfinding loads of stuff out.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And I think that's the case for anybody who's an
entrepreneur.
It's trial and error andpushing those boundaries and
seeing really what you canaccomplish individually, but
with your team too.
Now I want to get back tofocusing on sustainability,
energy, innovation.
So, really, what inspired youto get into this line of work
besides just, you know, beinggoing to the apprentice school
(06:53):
to be an electrician?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh yeah, so in the in the very, very early years of
in when when payment, so theybrought in what's called a
feeding tariff in the uk wherethey there was a big advertising
campaign of like getting intosolar and helping, helping be
sustainable and this is atechnology that's um accessible
and and I think as as anelectrician realizing all this,
(07:18):
we can, we can make a differencehere if we start putting these
solar panels on.
But then actually I think what,what really struck home for me
with sustainability and why I'vestayed in energy, is probably
because when I was really young,like seeing nature and seeing
(07:38):
the damage that we have had onour environment, is you can see
that in kind of your um like wewere on holiday as a family and
snorkeling and you can see allthese beautiful fish and these
beautiful colors and you can seethe damage.
Like going snorkeling and andenjoying holiday like 10 years
later you can see the differencein the environment.
(07:59):
You can see um miles of deadcoral over in in in the maldives
and places like that, likethat's.
That's where I was when I seenall of that and that and seeing
those types of things impactedme as because I want, I want it.
I want the world to be a betterplace.
I want the, obviously the.
We don't want to damage thisenvironment that we've, we've
been, we've been given and youcan see, you can, you can
(08:21):
actively see that in in lightpollution, in loads and loads of
different ways, and realizingthat every solar panel that we
put on is a tiny bit back ofprotecting that for our kids for
the next 10 or 15 generations.
So it really is more than justbeing in sustainability and
(08:44):
being energy and and almostbeing on your soapbox and
preaching carbon.
It does get a bit repetitive,but it doesn't doesn't get any.
You don't get any lesspassionate, because the
environment still needs peopleto, to, to be standing up for it
, still needs people to bechampion, champion in the carbon
um, playing games with the kids, getting them to turn lights
(09:07):
off.
It's not because I'm a skinflint, it's not because I'm,
it's not because I should.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Uh, yeah, I should bring my husband in.
Who's who's off from schooltoday.
The lights in the house.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I'm, I'm guilty of that too, but he, yeah, he's,
he's harping on the kidsconstantly about that but
getting them, getting themenjoying it and having some fun
with it, like, come on, boys,let's, let's have a, have a race
so you can turn the most lightsoff, they suddenly then getting
them aware of it is is, is abig, big part of of having and
it's the same in business likeyou can walk into the boardroom
(09:39):
and they'll have the window open, the air con on, then the
heating on, and you're like guys, what, what are you?
you and you can, because you cansound like a bat, like you're
pointing and telling people off,but actually you're just there
going like let's just turn ourbrains on.
Let's like a kid, go turn thelight, switch off, let's have
some fun with it.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Okay, no, I like that , yes and relatable, and you're
getting your kids involved andI'm sure that what you do in
your professional life doestranscend to your personal life
too and having thoseconversations with your kids,
which obviously is something ifyou are a listener to the show.
We do talk about the bridgingthe gap between different
generations, which is one of ourmain focuses of this company.
(10:21):
You're based in England and Iknow you do a lot of work in
England consulting, but you'vealso worked in other countries,
you've worked abroad, so howhave you had to adjust your
leadership style to differentcultural differences within
these countries that you areworking with or consulting in?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Oh it's, it's massively different.
So the, the, I'd say the common, the common thread, the kind of
starter point is, is the kindof worth, ethic and the, the,
the kind of weight that peoplefeel on on energy efficiencies
and like everything aroundsustainability and helping their
environment.
They, they, they've all got asimilar core value, but how that
(11:06):
is, how that is led and howthat's worked out, is very, very
different and in in differentcommunities.
So, um, for example, um, I gotthe honor of working over in
africa consulting on an off-gridproject over there, very, very
exciting um it was.
It was a mini grid, it was kindof cutting edge at the time we
were doing it and it was leadingthe guys in that environment of
(11:32):
helping them be safe, helpingthem deliver the, helping them
hit their targets as well asthem to get the kit working.
So, because I'm an engineer atheart and because of my
experience back in the in theday, um, when I turn up on a
site and there's guys strugglingto to deliver sustainable,
sustainable um resource and andthis, these, these off-grid um
(11:57):
systems that you can't helpyourself but kind of not just
stand and write a report and andthat's one thing, but then to
go and help them, but you can'twalk across and almost come out
of your lane to go and tellsomebody what to do.
It does take that kind of thatleadership of going oh hang on a
minute, I know how to lead inBritish culture, which is one
(12:19):
thing, but then putting the hangon, I'm in Africa.
How do I now relate to thisperson?
How do, how do I make sure wewere speaking the same language
English but obviously speakingthe same language as in their
values and how, how they, howthey work and how you get still
get the high quality work out ofthose guys, as well as
(12:42):
communicating the value of rightWork out of those guys, as well
as communicating the value ofright we yes, we could go home
now because that's, it's thattime, but you've only got me for
so long.
Let's, let's stay so.
So, communicating and helpingthat shift and that pivot of of
leading people in into producingbetter results through
(13:02):
communication and connection,better results through
communication and connection.
And you know what?
We had a good laugh and theguys that were on those sites
were flipping, hardworking menand women, absolutely brilliant
team over there deliveringprojects and when they hit the
sweet spot, of drive andeverybody's pulling together.
(13:23):
They're relentless when theyrealize you're not against them,
because a lot of the time, as aas an engineer, you can
sometimes come across because wedo know.
We know enough to be dangerous,we know enough to be lethal, but
we can come across as aknow-it-all and and actually
we're not in in the roles thatwe get put in when we we can
(13:45):
sometimes come across as thatknow-it-all, but it's our role
as a leader to change that hatfrom English culture to an
African culture and be able tocommunicate.
Hey, this is the way we need todo this to be safe, but then on
the same hand, we need to getthis finished and trying to
communicate.
That it's exciting and fun andit translates into other
(14:06):
cultures as well.
So, working in different partsof Africa again the culture
changes.
We had one engineer thattravelled for like 30-odd hours
on the back of a bus just sothat he could work with the team
that was there.
So there's chalk and cheesewith people as well, even within
culture, which is reallyexciting, and the fact that we
(14:30):
get to do energy and get to doleadership it's great.
It's great getting to do bothat the same time.
So yeah very tricky, very tricky.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And I can see and I'm sure our audience will see too
just how passionate you areabout the work you do, and
obviously it's not all.
You know sunshine, so what?
Talk to me a little bit aboutsome of the obstacles that
you've had to face as a leader.
You know internationally, butalso you know home in England
(15:02):
and how you address you know theobstacles, how you worked
through them and you know justsome of the differences there.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, yeah, so, um.
So some of the turbulences umare with, with, with people.
I find it's either an internalturbulence or an external
turbulence.
So with um, with leading a teamand leading a group of
individuals, whether UK oranywhere, they, they.
If, if somebody's coming to youwith a series set of
engineering problems and theperson has got a problem, so
(15:31):
there's an internal storm, thatthat could be anything from the
payslip was wrong to they gotout of the bed, the wrong side,
the bus, the bus was late.
There's almost seeing theperson behind the engineering
problem that's coming to you andas a, as a leader in
engineering world, it's veryeasy for us to to put the helmet
on or or to put the suit on andlead on, but actually if we
(15:53):
hear the person behind theproblem, we'll get a better
solution out of that person anda better drive from them,
because we've actually heard andunderstood there's an internal
conflict.
It's not just all of these, notjust the materials haven't
turned up on time, the qualityor the quantity isn't right for
this project, or we've run outof solar panels on a job.
(16:17):
We were supposed to have athousand and we've got 800.
Those types of fun things.
If you see past the person andsee past the problem and and
hear if, if there's so, there'sthose.
There's those two internal andexternal things that are tricky
to lead with and tricky to um,uh, work, work with and and
(16:37):
sometimes it does go wrong.
So I've, I've, obviously I've,I've been in a, in a, in a
partnership agreement wherewe've been running a business
together and both of us both ofus were super passionate about
um leading for a better future,super passionate about saving
the planet.
Both of us really, reallyresonated with each other in the
(16:59):
area of call, so in what wewanted to do, but then how we
wanted to get there was very,very different.
So I wanted to build men andbuild teams and system and
process, whereas my partner atthe time in business, he wanted
(17:20):
to scale a business, to sell itand move on and develop in the
sales and in moving intoacquiring other businesses.
So that was a time when, whenyou, when you're 50 50, it's
very, very difficult to um keepa team underneath you, motivated
to deliver projects on time, umto be customer facing.
Everything's okay, um, it'salmost like everything's okay,
(17:44):
but my bosses are falling out,so it's like one of those really
the the team could sense thatthere was a change coming.
They knew that we were headingin different directions.
And leading in that change iskeeping the team right and
finishing projects right infront of the clients and in
(18:04):
front of what was going on, butthen also being true to like
letting him finish his race inhis lane.
And I think the the mutualunderstanding when, when
companies do do that and whenindividuals and leaders do do
that and realize that therelationship grows and develops.
And actually it's okay forbusinesses, business leaders, to
(18:26):
grow apart within organizations, because one of the one of the
things as a leader is sometimesjust people follow you.
I've had team follow me throughthree of those companies.
I've had one or two guys thathave followed me every step of
the way, and it's not becauseI've gone back and poached them,
it's because they've gone hey,where are we working?
And I'm like we're designingnow, mate, we're not doing that
(18:49):
anymore and they just want to be.
Once you've won somebody andyou've helped them through their
problems and you've run out ofproblems, you've got that
journey with that person, thenyou've almost won them to a
point of they're more than justan employee, they're more than
just turning up for a paycheck.
They're turning up to want tobe be with with you and fight
(19:11):
your battles and help you withyour problems and and and that's
that's a really interestingthing.
So when you do have division andyou've got two guys going in
two directions even though weboth had different relationships
with guys on both teams at thesame time um, it was, it was
very, very interesting and andand you know what, looking back,
it was tough at the time.
But now, with that greaterknowledge of going, hey, we led.
(19:34):
We led our teams well throughthat, because the business has
carried on.
He, he's carried on running thebusiness, he's carried on
running both of them and keepingthe teams together.
He lost a few of the guys, butyou know what, like everybody's
better off for it he, he'sgetting to build the business
that he wanted.
He's getting to go in thedirection that he wanted, and,
and and I'm I'm getting to dothe things that I needed to do.
(19:56):
So it's, it's a um, it's aninteresting thing.
Just leading, leading throughthose times is is very
interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
It definitely is and it requires, you know,
leadership in forming a sense oftrust within your team.
So how do you think you youknow you and your former partner
were able to establish thetrust that is needed to have
projects continue during theturbulent time, as you mentioned
, when you guys were splittingand going into different
(20:25):
directions?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So we, we made a, we made an active decision, um, of
of doing a.
I, I will, I will, I will stepback, I'll, I'll let.
Let you take the reins of this,this, this, this and this, um
and the.
The beauty of at the time, wetimed it that I was, I was able
to pass on, and so we'd trainedand developed about 26 internal
(20:53):
staff on our side of thebusiness to be able to deliver
projects, and they had theirchecklists, they had their
systems and processes.
So for them it was business asusual.
It was just the top seat,wasn't there?
The phone, I wonder what weshould do about this problem.
(21:13):
Where's, where's, where'sjustin?
Um, that phone call was going.
Ah, do you know what?
He's not around.
I'll call the other guy.
So, because we'd set everythingup so well, down, down down to
the, the process of buying, theprocess of approaching a problem
, the process of, of, ofdelivering a, a solution,
whether it, whether it be aenergy saving one, a metering
(21:36):
one, a monitoring one, a solar,whatever we were doing at the
time, that doesn't matter, it'sthe process, isn't it?
That then the team could, couldanchor themselves in.
Oh, we're all right, businessas usual, we've got projects,
the, the other, the my partnerkept the business flowing.
He kept more leads coming in,so he kept the team moving and
(21:56):
developing um, which was great,which which was absolutely great
.
So it's, it's the, it's thetrust and the faith in each
other, in in those moments andum.
You only get that throughhaving built three, four years
of solid, like late nights inthe office, long drives together
.
You know each other, you knowyou know each other at that
(22:17):
point that he's got this, he'sgot this, he's going to, he's
going to look after this becausethey are family.
At that point that he's goingto look after my, this, this
group that we've.
We've grown.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So, yeah, it's good, it it's interesting, it's an
interesting time, great questionyeah, so really, you know, the
foundation of any relationshipis communication and and having
effective communication, and itseems like that you really have
established.
So do you have a blueprint forwhat worked for you in terms of
passing that on to othercompanies, or what you use as
(22:49):
you?
You know, go into differentconsultancy roles.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Do you know what?
Because everybody's sodifferent, it flips and it flips
and changes.
So because of the differentpersonality types, that that
you've got it, it really itreally does like it does matter
what personality types areleading are leading teams.
I've with with personaldevelopment.
We With personal development.
We used to sit down with ourteam leaders and get them to do
(23:15):
their personal assessments sothey could work out how they
fitted together.
But every situation isdifferent because people have
got different skill sets.
So in my role at the moment, Ican come across companies that
are brilliant at sales and gotno operational sense.
And then I come acrosscompanies that have got the
(23:36):
ability to deliver millions ofpounds worth of product or of
service but really struggle tosell.
So it's it's in energy.
It's really interesting,especially in the UK, because
it's it's an industry where guyshave grown doing what they do
best.
So you may have an electricianthat's amazing at fitting
(23:58):
boilers or amazing at CHP oramazing air source heat, and
he's out there all day, everyday, doing that, but then when
he comes to sell it, it's a,it's another.
They're not used to that.
So there's there's all thesedifferent, all these different
things.
Uh, all these different thingsgoing off and there's so much
the.
The scope for solar in the ukat the minute is massive, so
(24:18):
it's, it is, it's almost, um,it's almost like a free-for-all.
It's, uh, there's so much workthere's only five.
We've only done five percent ofour roofs.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
So that's I remember yeah, real number like between
5% and 8%.
Yeah, when we met talking aboutthis and it's just so
interesting to see thedifferences between the United
States talking to you and the UKand the role of solar.
So obviously it's a veryexciting trend that solar is
increasing in the UK.
(24:47):
But what else can you tell ouraudience about the level of
solar, not just residential butcommercial too, and what excites
you the most about the nextfive to 10 years?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So the UK is really really interesting.
So there's so many.
Our utility is broken up intodifferent DNOs, network
operators that look afterdifferent sections of the
country, and all of them havegot kind of a different set of
rules and a different processfor getting projects through.
(25:21):
So in certain areas of the UKyou can come up with a project a
couple of megawatts on a roofor a couple of megawatts in a
field, or even quite a largecommercial installation, and the
national grid in that locationwill help you.
They're process is slick,they're fast at getting back to
you.
They'll quote and say, yes, youcan turn this much power on
(25:44):
here, or hey, we need to limityou.
So the market's really excitingin some of those areas.
In others of those areas it's alittle bit slow.
Now I'm not going to name them,but some of them are a little
bit slow and a little bit If Isaid the old boys club you'd
(26:06):
know what I meant Kind of thatkind of remit and and it's
tricky hey to, you've got somany different solar companies,
so many different developers,all all rolling out different
schemes.
Um, I think some of some of thereally interesting stuff in in
the uk um is is utility scalebattery.
(26:27):
We're seeing that gettinggetting deployed quite a lot at
the moment.
There's quite a lot in planning.
So our network operators haveactually said, regarding battery
, if it's over a megawattthere's a massive waiting queue
(26:47):
and they almost do a first firstcome, first serve with the,
with the projects.
So your project has got to be,um, ready to go.
They call it spade ready, don'tthey?
So that that that developmenthas literally got to be ready to
hit the road running.
Because that capacity agreement, the, the availability of of
(27:08):
power on the grid, because ourgrid's ancient ag, we got
victorian cable still running insome places.
Don't tell anyone, um, and and,but that's just.
That's because we're an oldcountry and because, like some
of our roads have, we can't digthem up.
We, you know, I mean we can't,we can't do certain things in
certain locations.
So rolling out an ev network isis really tricky because you
(27:29):
got to find those little spotson the grid that have got the
available headroom, have got theavailable capacity and the and
the pull that that puts on thenational grid.
And then you've got guyswanting to deliver battery scale
(27:53):
solutions, utility scalesolutions, which are all over
the country.
They, they tend to be out inthe sticks by the 11 to 33, like
by the really big transformers,um, and they they take out of
sight, out of mind, um, but theyare providing grid balancing
because of our increasing evs,um.
So it's a really interestingand there's there's so many
(28:15):
different voices in in the ukenergy market of um, the, the
national grid guys needing moremoney for infrastructure, um,
and the, the installers of solarsmall scale, medium scale,
saying we're not paying for it,alongside the government trying
to say we're going to do thisnew green bill and we're going
(28:35):
to do this, this and this forfeeding tariff or export tariff.
So it's really that soturbulent times, so leading in
turbulence, is exactly that thatyou've.
You've got clients who want todeliver renewable, want to
deliver one, want to um.
(28:56):
One of my clients, uh, wants tohave a full fleet of evs, wants
to have a full building of, soit wants to be carbon negative
and and the grid in his areacan't take it and he's hearing
all three voices at the sametime.
So he's he's hearing thegovernment say, yes, we want to
invest and and a strong businesscase from from our, from our
government saying yes, we wantto invest and a strong business
case from our government sayingwe're green, we want to go this
direction.
You've also, at the same time,got the national grid saying we
(29:18):
can't deliver this because ofrestraints in your area, because
we've got things to improve Atthe same time as then the
installer going well, we candeliver this, this and this
product, but only in thesetimescales.
So you do have that turbulenceof giving him the right advice,
helping him through, finding theright financial solution, never
(29:40):
mind the right product to fitthose three things.
And then the client might askyou about future proofing and
you're like well, which?
Which conversation should welisten to here?
So it is.
Do you know what Like leadingin turbulence and developing a
sales team in this environmentis is exciting because you need
to teach the ability for them topivot in, even in a, in a
(30:04):
presentation or even in aconsultative role with a client
or with developing an installer.
It's a really interesting timeand energy in the UK and there
is so much opportunity withinthat as well.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
So I want to go back.
There's a lot that you justsaid I want to go back to when
you mentioned the good old boysclub, the ones that might be a
little bit slower to get onboard.
So how do you work with them?
How do you make the businesscase for this group of
individuals to really buy in tosolar and the new technologies
(30:45):
and not just have it be statusquo?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So, yeah, it's a really, that's a really good one
, that's a really great question.
So, with when you've got aclient or you're developing a
team that's delivering somethingto that kind of environment, it
is very, it is very, veryinteresting.
So, um, educating those typesof that, that kind of group,
(31:11):
that those people with thatmindset, is very, very difficult
and quite challenging.
Um, what we've found isspeaking their language.
So, um, in in that environmentand and I know and I know I we
don't want to get any negativehere, but if I said that was a
kind of a typical small tomedium farmer.
So they are out in the sticks.
(31:32):
If they're going to put solaron, they're going to have to
reinforce their grid, so theyare slow to to respond to a good
idea, a good offering.
Yet they're some of them have arunning generators because they
can't they can't upgrade theirmains or upgrade the, the loop,
or they're uh, they're producingmilk and they've got all those
(31:53):
types of things to deal with.
Um, so, if we're dealing withone of those types of scenarios,
um, it really is the numbers.
It really like they're speaking, speaking the numbers, speaking
like you're spending this much,we can save you this much,
looking at, looking at the wideroption of of communicating that
in a way that they understandof this is this is almost like
(32:17):
you, a year's profit on yourmilk or your eggs or your
whatever that element is in thatrespect, whatever that element
is in in that respect, um, youalso bump into that archetypal,
that that kind of personalitytrait, um, in heavy industry and
in in commercial engineering aswell, um, where they've always
done it this way and you,there's no, there's, there's no
(32:38):
way they're gonna look atputting anything on their roof.
Um, and and again, the numbers,the numbers.
You don't need to wait for achange of leadership within an
organization when you've got acompany, that's, if they had
this solution, it would savethem £40,000 a year.
Or, if they have this solutionwith a massive company, it could
(33:02):
save them £300,000, £400,000 ayear.
Then every month counts.
So then you break it down toevery day you're losing, you're
losing this amount of money outyour door.
Um, and and the be the be realor let's not play, is also very
useful.
And and also like with ifyou're leading a team of
salesmen or engineers, or orwhen the two, you you've got
(33:25):
salesmen and engineerscommunicating chps and stuff
like that, like pulling them inand going, hey, if that, if
that's not going to go, let'snot waste resource, internal
resource, on chasing somethingthat is is just going to, is
just going to die if they've notgot the inner desire.
If they're, if, if there's anopportunity that you can't
qualify, then walk away.
(33:47):
If it's not got a qualifyingcriteria, if there's genuinely
no desire to be green, to jumpon our bandwagon, to come and
save the planet with us, then wecan't force them onto the bus.
We can't, and there's no pointmanipulating them onto the bus
(34:08):
or arguing.
If you argue, in the endthey'll get argued out.
There's no point.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, exactly.
All you can do is provide thedata and the evidence and be
transparent with them, andultimately, it's a decision that
they have to make as either asmall business or medium size or
a large company.
So I like that.
You do have experience workingwith different size businesses
(34:38):
and I really I know we've beenhaving this conversation now for
a long time and I'm reallyenjoying sitting down with you
to learn more about what ittakes to be a leader through
turbulent times and how yourexperience has really shaped.
You know the companies that youhave formed, as well as you
know the workers, the employeesthat you've had with you.
But, looking back, what do youthink has been the most
(35:01):
rewarding part of your career?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
rewarding part of your career.
That's a brilliant one, so themost, the most rewarding thing.
So I'm walking down the highstreet.
I'm walking down the highstreet and in central Manchester
it was and I hear somebodyshout my name and I recognize
the voice as being the voice ofone of my apprentices from years
and years and years ago.
And I turn around and there isLiam running down the street in
all of his gear, in all of hiselectrician's gear, gives me a
(35:32):
big hug and says, hey, justin,thank you.
And I say what for mate, likeI've not seen you in years, like
I've seen him on Facebook.
He got married and stuff likethat, and he won't mind me using
his name.
And he'd literally got marriedand stuff like that, and he
won't mind me using his name.
And he'd literally he'd set uphis own, he'd been a let, he'd
become an electrician underneathme years and years ago and
seeing him develop into being um, running a great company, like
(35:58):
looking after some guys of hisown, servicing clients, like
delivering projects, um, andthen and then just getting the
thank you.
Um, money's, money's one thing,isn't it like it?
Yeah, we, it's great to havemoney, um, but a thank you goes
so much further and I think thatwas probably one of one of my
defining moments of uh of doingit and probably one of my my
(36:21):
super superpower moments of uhin turbulent times when I need
to fix myself on something goinghey, remember that down the
street those staff are worth it.
Those tough conversations ofplease up your game, come on,
please be on time, please getfinished on time, please submit
your forms it's worth thoseawkward conversations to get a
lad running down the street what?
(36:42):
15, 20 years later?
Um, saying thank you for thethank you for telling me off and
thank you for looking after meand thank you for training me.
So, yeah, there's a few ofthose types of guys around and
occasionally, when you bump intothem, you get a really proud,
really proud moment.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Oh, I'm sure you do so.
I mean, obviously, the workthat you did with him inspired
him to start his own business.
So what advice do you have foremerging leaders?
Or you know people who are, Isay kids, but you know teenage,
late teenagers, early 20s, whoare really navigating these
major challenges of decidingwhat they're going to go into.
(37:22):
Or you know those who want tojump in and start their own
companies.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Oh, do you know what I'd say?
Go for it.
Like, there's so much learningto do, don't get stuck in
paralysis analysis, don't getstuck analyzing everything.
It's much easier to turn a turna moving ship.
So I'd say go, go for it, gofor it, try, try, have a go.
(37:49):
Um.
One of one of my mentorsgrowing up would always say have
a go.
You mug um and I'm still havinga go.
So uh, that's uh, and thatnever, that never wears out.
Um, take people with you.
So Liam, the young lad that ranup the street, said thank you.
Like, if you take people withyou on the journey, um, a leader
(38:10):
off by himself's an idiot on awalk.
So a leader has got followers.
So let's like taking peoplewith you massive, really,
massively important, even evenif it's not even employed, but
just with you in the journey oflike finding, finding those um
people doing business alongsideyou.
At the same time, it can be incompletely different um
(38:31):
businesses.
One of one of my close friendsis is a plumber and and and he's
been doing his thing in hislane and we, we still get on,
even even now, with me doingwhat I do and him doing what he
does.
It's those, those types ofchampion people that champion
you, um is is really important,um, and I'd say, yeah, I think,
(38:54):
um, I think, having having theallowing people to give you
their best advice at the righttime so there's list listening
to people, people, and not beingscared to ask what would you
have done differently, you canavoid.
20 years, 10 years.
(39:15):
So be teachable is what I'mtrying to focus on, because, as
a 18 to 35, 18 to 20, we watch alot of YouTube and that can
teach us a lot.
But there's guys out there 35,45, guys in the industry, old
boys that have been selling foryears, and a five-minute
(39:37):
conversation with them canliterally remove miles of
minefield.
They remove you getting introuble with the bank, or you
getting in trouble with the bank, or you getting in trouble with
the tax man.
Just those, just those fiveminutes.
So I've probably got about fiveor six guys that even even now,
even even yesterday, I wassending one of them a proposal
I'm doing hey, he's been retireda long time, um, yet he can
(40:00):
still pick holes in somethingthat is is kind of in my world,
cutting edge in.
In his world it's, it's justbricks and mortar lad, um.
So, yeah, having those havingthose relationships and still
staying teachable, still stayingteachable fantastic lessons to
leave our audience with.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, justin, I hope this is not the last time that
we are going to have aconversation, because we'd love
to have you on again and and youknow to continue the
conversation and and check backin with you.
But thank you so much for beinga part of Sustainability
Unveiled.
We really do appreciate all ofthe leadership and guidance that
you shared today.
How can I contribute to abrighter, more sustainable
(40:40):
future, not just personally, butprofessionally?
Let's embark on this journeytogether and shape the landscape
of sustainable leadership fortomorrow.
Take the first step now andmake a commitment to lead with
sustainability in mind.
That's all for this episode ofSustainability Unveiled.
Join us next time as wecontinue exploring the forefront
(41:02):
of sustainable businesspractices.
Until then, stay informed, staysustainable.
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