Episode 15 - Unconventional Paths in Innovation with Victor Muchiri - EIR Live

Episode Transcript
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Victor Muchiri (00:00):
Of a Rorschach test of like, Okay, we're both

(00:02):
looking at the same thing. Yeah,we both see like you see a bunny
and I see something else. I seea duck. And I think that's
pretty unique. And I think,yeah, to answer your question,
it is true.
One of the unique things I wouldsay too is your background and
context matters a lot in some ofthis and so does your incentive.
And so that's another thing Iwould say is actually really
important, jumping at to whenyou're an EIR. It's like you
have to understand why are folksmaking the decisions they are?

(00:25):
And what do they get if Xoutcome happens or Y does? And
so, yeah, it's definitely true.
I think one of the challenges Iwould say though for a lot of
those folks is if you don't doyour homework as an individual
in that position to understandthat the context of where people
are coming from, you're going toquestion why people are making
those things, making thosedecisions. And so you really

(00:46):
have to be willing to do notjust a surface level work, go
deep.

Ilya Tabakh (00:49):
Welcome to EIR Live, where we dive into the
lives and lessons ofentrepreneurs and residents. I'm
Ilya Tabakh, together with mycohost, Terrance Orr, ready to
bring you closer to theheartbeat of the innovation and
entrepreneurial spirit. Everyepisode, we explore the real
stories behind the ideas,successes, setbacks, and
everything in between. Foreveryone from aspiring EIRs to

(01:10):
seasoned pros, EIR Live is yourgateway to the depth of the
entrepreneurial journey andbringing innovative insights
into the broader world. Checkout the full details in the
episode description, subscribeto stay updated, and join us as
we uncover what it takes totransform visions into ventures.
Welcome aboard. Let's growtogether. Alright. And we are

(01:33):
back for another amazing episodeof EIR Live. What's exciting
about today's episode is VictorMachiri, who was actually EIR at
Barton Mallow, was one of theonly other active EIR's that I
could find in my long searchwhen I was a EIR at Black and

(01:57):
Veatch over in the AEC space.
I got really curious. I'm like,I can't be the only one. Right?
But then it wasn't so easy.Apparently, we've now identified
that there may have been sort ofprograms and they kind of come
and go.
But it was really cool becauseVictor was one of the actually
the only person I could findthat was an active EIR in AEC.

(02:21):
And so, I feel, you know, sortof a connection and that we were
sort of kindred spirits in someway. And so, it's exciting for
me personally to have Victorfinally join us here on EIR
Live. But, without further ado,I'd love to jump in, Victor, and
just talk about where it allstarted and get to know you a

(02:44):
little bit as we dive into theepisode.

Yeah, I appreciate that, Ilya. Where did
it all start? Well, first ofall, I'm glad we got a chance to
connect. Yeah, you're right.There's not that many EIRs in
the construction or AEC space,so very thankful for that one.
But my journey begins a longtime ago in Kenya. So I was born
originally in Nairobi, Kenya,which I think is pretty unique
in that born there, grew up inSouth Africa in the late '90s,

(03:06):
which is a tumultuous time tosay the least to be Black in
Cape Town, South Africa. Thatled to my family eventually
immigrating to The US. We won'tgo into all the details there,
but again, black family in SouthAfrica, that prompted the move.
So that led us to moving to TheUS in November 1998.
We actually moved to The US onThanksgiving weekend. So pretty

(03:31):
special time for me to rememberThanksgiving for that reason.
Eventually, again, I grew up inOhio in a small rural community,
which I think again is a prettyunique dynamic. So growing up in
a rural community while alsomaintaining my Kenyan roots in
that community as well, That ledme to eventually graduating high
school, went to college at OhioState, go Bucks, got my degree

(03:54):
in construction management. Butthe interesting thing there is I
had no idea what I wanted to do.
I went to school thinking Iwanted to become a doctor,
wanted biochem, changed my majorabout five different times,
maybe 11, but who's counting?And then eventually ended up in
construction management andgraduated with that degree. Ever
since then, I've been in andaround the industry. Even on the
career side, I think part of itis really less so about having a

(04:16):
defined path and more so leaninginto my curiosity. That's how I
went from really interested inthis, really interested in that,
but eventually, you got to putyour foot down and make a
decision to go forward.
That's where I've been to date.It's a little bit of context in
the background, but yeah,hopefully that's helpful.

No, it is. And actually, before we jump too
far, it's funny because it kindof mirrors my I was born in
Moscow and I moved to KansasCity when I was seven. Right?
And so I moved from a prettylarge global city to a less
large, less global city. We'llput it that way.
And not to make fun of KansasCity. Love Kansas City. But that

(04:55):
experience and showing up,especially with my whole family,
right? Because we all immigratedtogether and knowing that
there's multiple perspectives,multiple sort of cultural
lenses, you know, and reallygetting curious about for me,
I'm like, What is this smallplace? You know, at the time,
actually, Kansas Cityhistorically built their airport

(05:16):
north of the river because theythought that was sort of where
the city was going to grow.
And then the city did not growthat way. And so when you flew
into Kansas City, you're flyinginto There wasn't really much
around at the time in 1990. Andso I got really curious on like,
how did this place work? And asyou said, sort of leaning into
that curiosity was actually areally good differentiator

(05:37):
because everybody else around mewas like, Well, this is how it
always is. And, you know, myfamily is from here and I know
everything's usual, right?
It's like there's there'snothing uncommon. We'll pull on
this thread later, but I justthought that that kind of skill
set and the ability to sort oflook at the situation from a
couple different perspectives,right? Because I sort of had one
foot in each world, you know,pretty early on. By the time I

(05:59):
was eight or nine, I wasspeaking and I was sort of doing
all that stuff, but I could alsokind of understand a different
context. So I think it'simportant to sort of think
about, you know, what thatenables.
So I just wanted to kind ofhighlight that before we move
on. Alright, so you started kindof construction, didn't know
what you wanted to do. You know,that's like a pretty interesting

(06:19):
foundation. Where does the storygo from there?

Yeah, no pun intended on the foundation, but
I think, you know, I started mycareer doing this type of work
and quickly realized So my firstjob out of college, I was
working on a stadium renovationat Ohio State. And they were
adding a whole bunch of stuff,doing some stadium upgrades
during the off season, classicstuff. And then I was like,
Well, this is good. But at thetime I was working for a company

(06:43):
that was about 2 ish billion ayear in top line revenue. And
then I want to go work at TurnerConstruction, which for folks
that don't know, Turner is thenumber one general contractor.
It's like, Let me see what'shappening over on that side of
the team. So I did that. I wentto Turner and it is very, very
different. At the time, Turnerwas doing about $15,000,000,000
which is a material increasefrom two or three, depending on

(07:03):
the calculations. And so I wentthrough a couple of different
jobs there.
Most notably, went to work at adata center for a large
hyperscaler. And it is, my God,I think at that point it was
really cemented. It's like, Ilove this industry, but I'm not
going to be that guy. I'm notgoing be that superintendent
that's up super early in themorning that goes out and knows

(07:24):
all the subs, knows all theprocedures and workflows. That
just did not come natural to me.
And so at that point, was like,Okay, I know I like this
industry. I know I like numbers.I know I like some of the other
stuff that makes a little bitmore sense in my head. So the
question was, how do Ieventually parlay that into
something else? So that led meto my next job at Turner still,
which was an owner's rep job,which again, at that point, for

(07:46):
those that don't know, Turner isrepresenting a client through a
construction process.
So my job was to help manage theowner's books and do some other
stuff, represent them well insome of these meetings. Well,
this is really interesting. Sonow I'm more client facing,
dealing with the numbers, Okay,we're getting closer and closer
to what I want to do, but stillnot quite hitting the mark. And
then at that point, a roleopened up for Turner's

(08:09):
headquarters position out of NewYork. I applied for it and my
boss recommended me and waslike, I think you do really well
at this.
Because it was not aconstruction role, but still
within a construction company. II was like, all right, now we're
starting to get closer andcloser. And again, even through
all these experiences, I thinkpart of it is like, where do I
feel energy? Where do I feelenergized? What am I leaning
into?

(08:29):
Where are my curiosities takingme? And I think, again, you got
to be a little bit introspectiveto understand your strengths and
weaknesses. And me to be able tohave an honest enough
conversation with my manager atthe time, who's a great guy, by
the way, about like, Hey, thisis where I'm at right now. This
is where I want to be.Obviously, I work for you.
You see what I'm good at, whatI'm not good at. So having his
support was really monumentalfor me to take on that next
role. And so I did. Supposed tobe a two year rotational

(08:51):
position, did that for about oneyear. And then at that point you
started planning your transitionback to the business unit.
But as I said, I'm not aconstruction guy at heart.
Again, for those who knowsuperintendents and project
managers, they're covered from adifferent cloth and that just
wasn't It didn't feel authentic.And so thankfully enough, I had
a great relationship with mymanager there and I was talking

(09:13):
through. I was like, Okay, whatmakes the most sense for you? Is
it going back to the business?
Is it leaving? Is it going intoa different role? Etcetera,
etcetera. And so a positionopened up at a startup. And at
that point I was at an analystlevel.
Then at the startup, theopportunity was so they were
series D startup, company wascalled Upstart. Was like, could
I go into a startup and actuallymake it? Could I go prove it?
They'd never hired someone in myrole before. So again, take a

(09:37):
bet on myself.
Do you really believe that youas a young analyst have the
capacity and skills andwherewithal to go build this
thing? I thought so, but maybethat's just young hubris. We
talked to my manager and theneventually, yet again, I applied
for the job and I got it. Andthen that takes us to COVID. So
that's 2020.
And my first day at this new jobwas the day everyone got sent

(09:58):
home. So I was like, Oh man, Ihave no idea what's going to
happen. Turmoil is out in thestreets, truly, truly unknowns.
And Again, a lot of thingshappen from there on in the work
world, but I think for me itwas, again, this reoccurring
theme of I really know what I'mgood at, or rather I'm learning
throughout my journey, so in mycareer of what I'm getting good

(10:19):
at and am I willing continuallyto take a bet on myself? And
Ilya, you made a comment earlierabout coming from a different
culture.
I think part of that is themotivation behind that is like,
Okay, I've got a shot herebecause of something my parents
did. And so again, there's alittle bit of fire in me because
of that. And you see that inthrough some of the risks I'm
willing to take versus nowversus some folks. And I think,
again, throughout thatprogression of my time at

(10:40):
Upstart, we built a product, wedid all the right stuff, got
everything built up. So yeah,there's a lot of things we can
pull on from after that and eventhrough that experience, but I
think that takes us to a prettymonumental pivoting point of
COVID whereby massive, massiveleap of faith into a completely
new different industry.
Again, going from constructionin the confines of a really

(11:00):
large corporate company, you'vegot Safeen out there, into a
brand new startup. You have noidea during COVID, right? This
is fintech, so you have no ideawhat's actually going to happen.
Is it going to pass? Is it goingto fail?
Eventually they IPO ed laterthat year, so everything was
fine, but I didn't know that atthe time. It was a wild
experience. Was a wildexperience.

Before we take that monumental leap of faith, I just
want to kind of double click oneven the construction continuum.
You just sort of mentioned thedifference between a
$2,000,000,000 and$15,000,000,000, you know, kind
of organization and maybe howthey think about the world. You
know, construction is sort ofeverybody says construction and
it's sort of this monolithicthing, right? But construction

(11:39):
could be somebody's stickbuilding your fence to somebody
building your strip mall ormultifamily kind of unit in your
neighborhood, to somebodybuilding a refinery, right?
Which is ultimately like anindustrial, very complicated
process oriented type facilityor a power facility.

(12:01):
And then as you said, kind ofrepresenting the owner or a
contractor, different partieshold risk. So it's, you know, in
some ways it's pretty cool thatby education and then by your
first, few professional touchpoints, you know, you got some
pretty good, insights from kindof different levels in that

(12:21):
stack too.

Terrance Orr (12:22):
I think I want to double down on this, Ilya, and I
want to use the wordadaptability when I double down
on this because there'ssomething unique. I'm American.
Right? You guys immigrated toThe United States and there's
something about the immigrantstory and being adaptable in
different situations. And Ithink that lends itself well to,
you know, becoming anentrepreneur, trying different
things, like running towardsthings that you don't really

(12:43):
know what's on the other side,but you notice one thing, you
only get one shot to get itright.
And and I think it's somethingabout that that lights a fire
under most of my friends. I'mthe only American in my friend
group. Right? And that we havethis this fire, right, to where
you wanna do something new. AndI think that adaptability is
showing itself in in Victor'sstory.
Right? But not only that, Victorgraduated from Ohio State in

(13:06):
Ohio. He moved to New York forthis rotation thing that
happened, from what Iunderstand. And then he went
back to Ohio. Okay?
And then he made the big leap offaith, which we'll get into in a
second, in Indiana. Walk usthrough that, Victor.

Yeah. I mean, I think the leap of faith is real
because again, my college degreeis an X and then I went to go do
Y. That's hard. That's hard. Andnot only that, quite frankly, I
took a massive pay cut to go dothat.
I truly was taken abetted towhereby if this did not work
out, what am I going to do next?Because at this point, a couple
of years have passed, was Igoing to go back basically to be

(13:41):
multiple years junior to mypeers? It's like in the fullness
of time, nothing really matters.Anyway, so at that point, yeah,
one caveat I would say is I wasworking remote out of New York.
So, I was traveling to and fromNew York quite a bit, which was
remote.
That's actually one of reasonswhy I wanted to go work at
Upstart because it had a localoffice and I want to go work in
person. Then again, COVIDhappened, that didn't happen.

(14:05):
Yeah, I think that wasfundamental. And then you
mentioned High Alpha and Indy.One of the reasons I really
liked that firm is fundamentallywhat they were doing on the
innovation side was exploringhow can you create advantaged
startups on behalf of corporatesand universities.
And so that to me reallyscreamed, okay, if I want to
learn more aboutentrepreneurship, if want to
learn more about venture andtrue innovation in this

(14:28):
capacity, is probably one ofbest firms to do it.
Interestingly enough, I actuallypitched High Alpha Capital, a
startup idea that I had. Andthen through multiple
conversations, up at High AlphaInnovation. I was like, Well,
why not just come work hereinstead? So that's how that
relationship happened.
But funnily enough, aconstruction tech idea. Again,
love the industry, but again,still not a superintendent. One

(14:50):
thing led to another. I ended upgoing to High Alpha Inno. The
funny thing there is when I goton that job, the first product I
helped support was a companycalled Plot, which is actually a
construction tech company.
So that was great. And then thenext project I worked on was
actually UNC Healthcare. So thatwas a pretty unique shift too.

(15:11):
Mentally, think about thecuriosity where I said earlier,
I want to go to school to becomea doctor. Obviously, that didn't
happen, but they still did thiscuriosity in the back of my head
as related to this stuff.
And so as I'm working on theseprojects, somehow, someway,
these things keep coming backand it's always full circle as
to you're interested in this,not doing it full time, but
still comes up and flares up. Sothat's a pretty unique

(15:31):
experience. But again, I thinkthe big thing there is, okay,
you leave construction to go dothis. Startup to You work at go
learn more about innovation. Youlearn more about innovation to
go apply that in somewhere else.
And I think that's, again, theevolution of these themes is
really what I you mentionedadaptability, but I think the
evolution and being adaptable tothe scenarios about what am I
learning here? What are theskills? And I think about it as

(15:52):
a Lego set, you have differentpieces that you need to learn
and assemble, and theneventually you get to the end
result.

I think that's fascinating because the first
venture that I ever built as anEIR was in construction. And,
and, we're folk we're talking toPMs and superintendents and tool
room managers as well, andthat's who we actually end up
building the venture for. Soactually for two room managers
and as you know, Victor and andIlya, on every construction
site, there's a gang box. Andthose game boxes have tools in

(16:20):
it that you need to complete ajob essentially. And we were we
came up with the idea of what ifa game box could talk.
Right? And and what if peoplecould track their tools
throughout construction site andbeyond, if you will? And it goes
a little bit beyond that, butit's kinda weird that the first
thing I've ever done as an EIRwas build a a venture in
construction. And now it's sortof full circle. I'm interviewing

(16:40):
you on the podcast along withIlya, and you're the only EIR
that he could find in theindustry at that time.
So very interesting. And thenyou went to high alpha, right,
focused on, you know, venturecreation, new venture creation
for corporations. That's adirect sort of, you know, I
would say a partner or acompetitor to where I was at as

(17:00):
a firm, as a partner at Mockforty nine essentially. Also
trying to create new venturesfor corporations. Let me double
down on the connectivity here.
I also sit on the board of UNCFDigital Health Initiative,
right, which was the healththing that you worked on, which
eventually turned into Goldie,you know, which is a company
called Goldie today. You know?So I don't know if that's the

(17:23):
same company or a different one,but I think there's a lot of
connectivity between what you'vedone at High Alpha, the health
care thing you started to workon, which was the first company
that ever failed for me before Ibecame an EIR. So there's
there's a lot of interestingconnectivity here. But you went
back to Upstart.
You went back to the startup.Tell us why.

It was a fascinating time in the
financial markets 2021 was in2022. And by fascinating, mean,
literally unprecedented. We'venever seen this kind of thing
happen in a very long time. Andso, again, it was a bit of a
cheat code having been in thestartup at first and having seen
things happen. Again, I wentthrough the IPO process and that

(18:03):
was December 2020.
And then at that point, you cansee a couple of things happening
in the market. So why did I goback? I think number one,
FinTech then, and even still tothis day is an extremely, in my
opinion, underappreciated aspectof the innovation world. There's
a lot of interestingtechnologies there that I think
the general masses don'tnecessarily appreciate. And so

(18:25):
for me, was going back to whatis it that I could learn?
What is it that I could providevalue back to the company too?
But both of those are important.It's not just a one way street.
And so I would say the curiosityof that. And so my role at
Upstart at the time was projectmanager, but really focusing in
strategy and operations forautomotive lending.
So what I did was for folks thatdon't know, Upstart is a triple

(18:47):
sided marketplace. So you haveconsumers on one end that apply
for and get the loans. You havelenders, so credit unions,
banks, and financialinstitutions that originate the
loans, the capital. And thenthrough the back end, have
capital markets buyers. Thinkabout hedge funds, institutional
buyers, etcetera, that actuallypurchase the loan pools.
My job within the organizationwithin Upstart was to sit at the
middle and understand what'shappening to the product and

(19:09):
then the business implication ofthat. Meaning if we make
marketing changes to a sign upflow and that affects our
conversion rate, what does thatmean to the loan performance of
that portfolio for differentrisk rates? So little things
like that. So, okay, you keepmentioning adaptability. I think
this is a good example of that.
It's like, okay, there's aconsumer side that you have to
get really curious about tounderstand how do different

(19:30):
product changes affect theconsumer. There's a lending side
of how do banks think about riskand what does that actually
translate to origination volumeand or the actual prices that
consumers see when they get aloan. And then lastly,
explaining all these things to alarge, large hedge fund or
capital markets buyer is afascinating place. Even though
one transaction is happening,you have multiple parties that

(19:51):
see things very differently andyou have to be adaptable to
actually contour the message toeach of those and make sure that
it fits the narrative of whatmakes sense. And again, I think
that's largely You asked why Igo back?
I think the curiosity aspect.And when you think about that
role, it is so dynamic. Andagain, against the backdrop of
interest rates were near free.And then each quarter they kept

(20:11):
escalating. And so, okay, thisis a hard job.
This is really, reallychallenging. But if you're a
curious person, you're willingto put in the hours at the time,
I think that's actually a reallyunique place for you to go. And
again, I think when you thinkabout taking a bet on myself,
did not come up to the financeworld. I never worked in
investment banking. I didn't doany of that stuff.
And then you go talk to a bankof folks that have been grinding
at this for years or decades. Ithink it was a good test of,

(20:33):
What am I actually capable of?There's a lot of really smart
folks at these really topstartups. And for me, I went to
Ohio State, not to poo poo onOhio State, but it's not the
same as an Ivy League. And so Ithink it was a good test of,
What am I capable of mentally?
Do I have that horsepower to goexecute against this? And I
would say it was a fairlysuccessful outcome. I would give
myself a B plus in that role. Ithink there's things to be

(20:55):
learned, but you got to behonest with yourself. And I
think that the big reason why itwas exciting, and I would do it
again in a heartbeat, is thecuriosity aspect.
You learn so much because it'sjust so dynamic. And against a
backdrop of time, timecompression is real in a
startup. You have to move fastbecause everything else is just
so much faster around you andeveryone else is too.

Just to actually jump into that, I've been lucky
a few times in my professionalcareer to sit at the interface
of different disciplines and seehow they're looking at the same
information with a differentsort of background and a
different set of tools andinterpreting the world in a
completely different way. I canonly imagine that in the role
that you just described over atUpstart that you were sitting at

(21:37):
sort of the fissure between twoor three or four different
disciplines. And even thinkingabout how do people make sense
of things, kind of what's theirdue diligence, how do they do
sort of their homework, how doessort of upstart understand
consumer behavior. That's awhole, you know, probably book,
if not series of episodes. So wewon't dive too much into that.

(21:59):
But I think for me, you know,being at the table when two
super sophisticated folks butfrom very different backgrounds
and perspectives look at theworld, look at the same set of
information and make completelydifferent conclusions was like a
really good formative moment.I'm curious on, does that ring

(22:19):
true, A, and two, if you couldtalk about that a little bit?

Yeah, it does ring true. It's a bit of a
Rorschach test of like, Okay,we're both looking at the same
thing, yeah, we both see, yousee a bunny and I see something
else. I see a duck. And I thinkthat's pretty unique. And I
think, yeah, to answer yourquestion, it is true.
One of the unique things I wouldsay too is your background and
context matters a lot in some ofthis and so does your incentive.
And so that's another thing Iwould say is actually really

(22:42):
important, jumping ahead to whenyou're in the IR. You have to
understand why are folks makingthe decisions they are? And what
do they get if X outcome happensor Y does? And so, yeah, it's
definitely true.
I think one of the challenges Iwould say though, for a lot of
those folks is if you don't doyour homework as an individual
in that position to understandthat the context of where people

(23:04):
are coming from, you're going toquestion why people are making
those things, making thosedecisions. And so you really
have to be willing to do notjust a surface level work, but
go deep, understand the context,understand the background, what
do they get, what do they notget, etcetera, etcetera. But
yes, to answer your questiondirectly, 100%.

Yeah. And just that that's a theme. People ask
what's a superpower that an EIRcan bring to a residence, right?
Many entrepreneurs that I knowand folks that ultimately roll
into EIR roles don't think thatthat's a special thing, Right?
The fact that they haveoperating experience, that they

(23:41):
have sort of muscle memory tosee when once they really
understand and can quantify andparameterize incentives and
actions, they start to see howthe world be able to tell the
future a little bit.
That skill set is like superunderappreciated in

(24:07):
organizations that don'tnecessarily have that kind of
skill set or background. So,just wanted to kind of
specifically call that outbecause there's so many things
that you can bring to the tablefrom this diverse operational
skill set that's useful in aplace where that skill set may
not be plentiful. And I think,you know, we just talked through
one of my favorites is, youknow, sort of empathetic design

(24:31):
and then the ability to sort ofparameterize and understand,
disparate and different types ofactors in an ecosystem. And

I think that actually applies really well to
the construction industry.That's a lot of the context that
I'm bringing to the table. Thisis an industry that's fairly
large. These are largecompanies, and they're filled
with really smart people. Butthe context of how they're
trained and the way that theyproblem solve is very different
than other industries.
And so if you can bring some ofthose lessons from outside in,
it's actually really, reallypowerful. Of course, you'll get
some pushback because we've donethis for the last hundred years.

(25:03):
What are you talking about? Ithink that's true to some
degree, but being empathetic tosay, I've seen this work before,
this is why it worked. How doesthat translate into this world?
I think that's what thesuperpower is, less so about
this worked over here and let'sjust rip and replace it. That's
not the winning formula.

No, 100%. And you mentioned the word translation,
which we use a lot on thispodcast, on having EIR's become
translators. You decided totranslate all of your
experience, Victor, fromconstruction, then you went to
fintech in the startup world.But you made another transition,
you know, that most people wantto make in in in this world of

(25:40):
startups, you know, once you'vedone pretty well for yourself.
And the the job of this personthat you became in the role that
you got next was to sort of lookinto the future just a little
bit and work backwards to figureout what startups you should
fund.
And this time you did it in theworld of insurance. The quote
that I heard when I first got myjob in venture capital was it's
easier to become a professionalbasketball player or any

(26:04):
athletic sport than it is tobecome a venture capitalist.
Okay? And you were able to do itwith a transition despite not
having a finance background,despite not having an NBA,
despite not going to the IvyLeague. Tell us about the
transition, my friend, tobecoming a VC.

Yeah. It's hard. It's a different world. It's
just a different world. I thinkpart of it is it's a different
culture, different subculture,different sub languages.
I think it's just a differentway of operating in the world.
Think quite frankly for mecoming out of Upstart into that
role, it was really focused onunderstanding deeply about

(26:44):
financial services as part one.You have to be able to
understand that world. And thenparticularly on the InsurTech
side, so I worked at NationwideInsurance at a CBC. So half the
business is insurance, half thebusiness is financial services.
And so being able to talk thelanguage, even if you are within
an organization that you cantalk to some of those folks,
that's part one. I think parttwo, as far as the VC goes, part

(27:06):
of your job as a VC is to seethe future, quote unquote. You
have to be able to see the dotsand then be able to connect them
in a way that other peopledon't. Hopefully you get there
first. Not only do you have tobe right, but you have to be
early.
So that's part one. And then thesecond thing too is when you
work at a startup, you see whatworks and what doesn't work.
Now, I didn't work from thestart from day zero to fruition,

(27:27):
but I think you still get aglimpse of from private to
public. That's a pretty uniqueaspect that quite frankly, lot
of folks don't get to see. Ithink that combination was
pretty unique for a lot of folksdespite not having.
But I think the other thing toois a deep, deep curiosity. I
cannot overstate how curious youhave to be in order to learn
because a lot of this stuff,they don't teach you. There's

(27:48):
not a lot of textbooks out therethat teach you how to become a
good VC. People write about it,but it's not the same. It's not
the same.
And so you have to be curious togo talk to folks. You have to be
curious to go do the homework.And so in order to get these
jobs, you have to go do a casestudy. It's like, okay, well, go
find me a company and write up amemo on this before. And again,
I'd never done this worldbefore.
Didn't come from investmentbanking. So you got to do a lot
of research. And again, there'snice weekends. There's a quote

(28:12):
out there, You should find workthat feels fun. And for me, that
felt like fun.
So when I could find myselfdoing these things after hours
and I enjoy them and it doesn'tfeel like a strain, and I'm
writing about these things anddoing the memos and all that
stuff, that to me was a prettygood exercise that showed, Hey,
maybe there's something there.So doing that and then
demonstrating that to the teamat Nationwide to say, Hey, this

(28:34):
is what I'm capable of. I know Idon't have XYZ on my pedigree,
but this is what I can still dowithout that. So imagine me
under the tutelage, underwhatever it may be. That's kind
of how I parlayed certainexperiences in my career into
that role.

And just by the way, it's amazing how successful
you can be when you're focusingon how you can help whoever
you're working with win. Right?You just sort of took one of my
favorite short plays out of thethe playbook is a lot of folks
are able to talk about thethings that they're good at, but

(29:07):
a lot of folks are not able tocontextualize the things that
are strengths for theirs, how itcan help sort of whoever they're
working with win. And so that'skind of what I heard you talking
about a little bit. It's notjust, you know, what are your
capabilities, but sort of thatawareness of what A, what is
winning for that organizationeven look like?
Then, what role do you play inthat game is really an important

(29:32):
and often, unfortunately,overlooked thing to do. So kudos
on that because a lot of folkssay, Hey, I'm good at really
this and I'm good at that. Butthey don't think about what does
winning for everybody look like?Then how can I translate the
capabilities that I have to beable to actually contribute?

One thing I'll say there is a sports analogy.
You play a certain position,maybe you can flex into one or
two others. Sometimes a teamdoesn't need five centers. They
need two centers. Maybe you'rejust a really good shooting
guard.
Okay, well, go be a goodshooting guard somewhere else
that needs a shooting guard.That's what you need to do. Go
find out.

Absolutely. I want to sort of clarify something for
the audience because you use theword CVC, VC. Oftentimes I get
notes on LinkedIn about, hey,I've learned a ton from the
podcast. Can you guys definesome of these words for us? You
know?
So Victor, can you tell peoplethe difference very quickly
between a CVC and a VC?

Yeah. So traditional venture capital and
CVC, corporate venture capital,are a little bit different. They
play a similar sport, butthey're a little bit different.
Traditional VC will have alimited number of limited
partners or investors that putmoney into the fund. And then
those investors then go deploythat capital.
It's usually pretty financiallydriven. At a CVC, you have a
blend. You have a dual mandateof financial returns, but also

(30:44):
strategic to the coreorganization or corporation. So
if you were to invest on behalfof the organization, you're
targeting things that could be astrategic add on to the business
through any number of ways inaddition to trying to get a good
financial return on thatcapital. So that's the
difference between the CVCs dualmandate versus single mandate.

And that actual sort of dual versus single,
especially for startups, can besuper confusing because in many
cases, you know, the startupwants to have a successful
financial outcome and then hasto be really careful about
thinking on who's on their captable, what are their
motivations. Because ultimately,I think the we'll call it the

(31:26):
cardinal sin for lack of abetter term of a startup is
misalignment between an investorand the entrepreneur. And it's
pretty easy when there's sort ofdifferent motivations in your
capital cap table. And so, yeah,we won't dive too much into
that, but it's that especiallyin like construction tech and

(31:50):
sort of energy transitionstartups, there's a lot of
strategic investors, a lot ofreally good strategic investors.
But there's all kinds of choicesbeing made all the time about,
hey, do we take a strategicinvestor from a large concrete
company?
You know, because then we'll beseen as sort of one of their
commercial partners and they mayhave sort of some input into our

(32:12):
commercial go to market. And soit's an important and careful
thing to consider. Anyway,that's an aside probably for a
different podcast, but we gotinto it. Here we are.

Yeah. I will say that does come into play,
particularly as an EIR. Ifyou're thinking about different
companies, different firms callEIR different things and there's
different mandates there. But ifyou are thinking about spinning
out a company or product orwhatever, who is providing the
financial backing for thatprovides a lot of context as to
how you need to think aboutdoing so. So yeah, should you
take on strategic capital versustraditional versus go to a bank

(32:46):
and get debt?
I don't know, it depends on thestartup, but that's a huge, huge
filter that a lot of peopledon't necessarily spend enough
time thinking about.

No, 100%. And you bought it up just now, so you've
teed it up nicely for me. Sowalk our audience through how
you landed your firstentrepreneur in residence gig.
Where was it at? What did youdo?
Just walk us through your day today.

So you've heard me say time and time again,
construction is my background.It is something very near and
dear to my heart. I don't knowwhy, but it truly does feel like
a calling to me. I think part ofit is, you know, it's pretty
cliche in the industry, butthere's a lot of folks that will
say, there's something aboutdriving by a building and you
get to see things progress, thatthat's real. And then over time
you get to look at the skylineof the city and say, Oh, I
worked on that job on that job.

(33:29):
So for me, being able to go backinto the real world was
something that I really desired.And so I had spent some time
after college working at acompany called Barton Mallow. So
I interned there during school,worked there through my senior
year and worked there as aproject engineer right out of
school. I knew some of the folksthere, thankfully had done
decent enough work at thebeginning to make those good

(33:49):
relationships. And wanting toget back into the real world,
quote unquote, I reached out tothe fine folks over at Barton
Mello and said, Hey, I wouldlove to come back, but
realistically, I would want itto be in a more entrepreneurial
capacity.
This is what I want to do.Again, going back to the memo,
for some reason memos are mything. And so I wrote out, this
is what I'm thinking about. Thisis how I would add value. This

(34:10):
is where I think I could slotinto some of this stuff.
And again, some of that is doinghomework on my own of tracking
them over time and seeing, okay,it seems like they're making a
lot of investments in this area.How can I fit into that? And
again, you tailor the memo andthe outreach to that. Over a
period of few months, meetingwith various folks from
different executives, differentdirectors within the
organization, and going throughthe conversations to really firm

(34:31):
up like, Hey, there's somethingreally here. That's what really
led me to my EIR role.
I think it was me recognizing Ilove the construction industry,
I really do. But I think theavenue of which or the role that
I play here has to be a littlebit different. And sometimes,
quite frankly, you have to makethat up. You have to make up a
new role. The EIR role was not ajob I applied to.
And quite frankly, usuallythey're not. You kind of have to

(34:51):
be crafted. And so again, Ithink being really honest with
yourself and saying, this iswhere, not only to Ilya's point,
this is what I'm good at, butthis is where I can add value
back to you. I think that levelof transparency and being
straight up with folks, that'show you get from point A to
point B. I think if you were tocome in and say, Oh, can do X,
Y, Z.
I can do it all. I don't knowthat people really resonate with

(35:12):
that as much anymore. I thinkyou really got to be able to
say, I've done X in my career todate. I have this foundational
background. This is where Icould slot in.
I think that resonated quitefrankly a little bit more than
the opposite approach.

I really like this and I want to double down for
our audience of what you said.EIR roles, you really can't
apply for them. It's very few. Ican count on one hand how many
EIR roles I see on a quarterlybasis. Right?
They are really creative andit's usually when somebody's
gonna raise their hand to havethe role created or to go to bat
for something that should beentrepreneurial inside of an

(35:44):
organization. And almost everyEIR role that I see people in,
it was created for the mostpart. So for all the folks who
who reach out to me on LinkedIntalking about how do you land
your first EIR gig, Like, wheredo I find them? You don't. They
find you.
They find you or you go pitchthe opportunity to become an EIR
potentially like our good friendVictor did or like others on our

(36:07):
show have done, like Dan andothers have pitched their first
EIR role. It was not in theorganization. Frankly, a lot of
these orgs don't even know whatthat is and they're not even
thinking about it. You needsomebody entrepreneurial like a
Victor who has had lifeexperience in a startup, in a
big company, as a VC that cameback was like, hey, I've seen
these things and I believe I canbring that to bear to help you

(36:29):
and to add value here. You know,I think that is a very big
point.
I just don't want that to getlost in what you just said,
Victor.

Yeah, the thing maybe I'll add there is there's
definitely a lot of universitiesand places that will say, hey,
we need an EIR program. But alot of the time when there is
sort of a either a ceremonialrole or something that you can
apply for, there's not normallysort of the skill set or
background at the table to belike really intentional about

(36:58):
how do you pair somebody that'sgot sort of the right archetype
to be an EIR with sort of asuccessful outcome for the
residents. And so I think, youknow, and we've talked about
this for many episodes. It comesup all the time. It's sort of
the in order to really be aneffective entrepreneur in
residence, it's kind of what'syour secret sauce?

(37:18):
Can you communicate it? Has theresidents actually done their
sort of homework and are theyreally intentional and have they
aligned their strategy and allthat stuff? And obviously,
nobody's perfect, right? It'shard to sort of do that once and
then move on. But if they have,it's normally a better outcome.
Then sort of that thirdreskilling piece, right, that

(37:40):
most entrepreneurialpersonalities are not
necessarily good spiritualleaders and sort of
organizational influencers. Andthe whole point is not for you
to single handedly bail waterwith a bucket, but teach people
about fluid mechanics, right? Sothat's a weird analogy, but

(38:02):
we're going with it. So thatspiritual leader role is pretty
important as well. But yeah,anyway, I agree with Terrance
though, generally.

Yeah. One other thing I'll say too, Ilya, you
mentioned is the skill set thatI think a lot of good EIRs are
required to have. It's not likea resume of like, check the box,
you go do this. I think theskill set is actually pretty
unique, but that actuallysometimes is counter to what
makes a traditional goodemployee at some of these
companies. And there's a bit ofa leap of faith yet again of

(38:31):
like, Okay, which path do Ireally want to go down towards?
Is it going to be a really goodcorporate employee? You stay
here for X amount of years. Youknow what happens between today
and the day you retire. Or am Iwilling to really lean into
these strengths that I have andthen jump into the deep end
quote unquote and try it out.

Yeah. Let's pull on that a little bit more. I mean,
to me, when my kind of EIR role,I saw my job was to sort of be
at the interface of the outsideworld and the organization.
Right? And even like how do youstructure it?
Do become an employee or you'rea contractor? That kind of
thing. I spent a little bit oftime kind of thinking about
those two things but Iessentially like in my own head

(39:09):
wrote my you know, kind ofmental resignation letter and
I'm like if I'm not you knowbeing provocative and sort of
telling them how it is from myperspective, then I'm really not
doing my job. And I got to say,once you're dead, you're not
afraid of anything, right? Andit's like, it's an amazing
superpower, right?
If you're already if you're adead man walking, right? There's

(39:32):
nothing that can slow you down.And it's like, you know, I think
maybe an extension of what youwere saying, but I think that
that's a way that you can kindof mobilize that perspective and
also maybe explain that, Hey,I'm coming at this from this
perspective, but let me walkback and say, Here's, you know,
sort of other places in theworld that this is successful

(39:55):
and let's try to help connectthe dots for you. And then also,
you know, it's okay to tellsomebody they're wrong. They
don't hear that very often inlarger organizations because
that's just not how theorganization normally is
designed.
And so, yeah, anyway, it rhymeswith my experience as well.

Yeah, a couple of things there I want to touch
on. I think the last piece isreally relevant for the
construction industry or thebuilt world, right? Particularly
in the AEC space because yes, wehave a lot of innovation teams,
we have a lot of disruptionhappening. This is a bit of an
antiquated industry. I think alot of people see that.
It's not to say it's a laggard,it's not. There's a lot of

(40:31):
really smart things happeningand really cool things
happening. But the idea thatwe've been successful today
doing XYZ, I think we really, asan industry, have to refocus
that and try to say, If we'vebeen this successful, what else
could we do? And start framingit as a more positive effect as
opposed to a negative. I thinkthat's part of the job.
I actually would advocate formore folks, more organizations
to have EIRs regardless of thefirm, but I think you should

(40:53):
just do it. I think the idea ofchallenging the status quo
should be an industry norm thatwe really should be having
across the board. I think toyour point, the job is to
understand what is the currentlandscape, how can we challenge
that, and where can we grow?That's what should be happening
and I'm a huge proponent ofthat.

Now let's double down on this a little bit,
Victor, because you keep teeingme up nicely. So what advice
would you give leaders, right?You're advising the CEO or the
board of a company who'sthinking about bringing or
starting an EIR program orbringing on their first EIR.
What advice would you give themto make sure that that person
feels welcome in that residenceand that they're ready for

(41:28):
somebody like a Victor to comein to actually show them the way
to build out new capabilities?

I think there's a lot to unpack there. I think
number one is culturally, whatkind of culture do you have in
the organization? Are you onethat embraces change or is
pretty resistant? I think that'spart one. Part two is going to
be, even if you do set up thisorganization or this function
and you hire in the rightperson, will they have the right
resources to actually go executetheir job?
That's another thing you have toreally commit to. And then the

(41:53):
third thing is, okay, againstwhat timeframe? Are you thinking
three months, six months, threeyears? What are you actually
going to do? I think those arethe really three key questions I
would advise on.
You need to get pretty crystalclear as to what are you going
to do? Are you going to supportthe news? What does that look
like? But then even beyond that,I would also say there's so much
that needs to happen behind thescenes. Organization alignment

(42:13):
between other executives, ifsomeone does come up with this
and they have the CEO's backing,will the business still shut it
down?
Will they starve it overresources or will they actually
be a proponent of it? When yougo to market, what happens
there? Can you actually co brandsomething? Are you going to say
on behalf of X, are you creatinga new product or your own? Where
do you actually get the supportfrom the organization if it does
exist?
There's so much that happensbehind the scenes beyond just,

(42:33):
Hey, I think you should do this.Because then the other thing is,
okay, AI is the new hot buzz. Ithas been, it's not really new,
but has been for a little bit.And then the question to the
organization is, what are wedoing with AI? Are we fighting
an existential crisis here?
What's our future look like? Ithink this is actually a really
good opportunity for someonededicated to looking at other
things outside of the corebusiness to question some of

(42:54):
those things. So if you bring inan EIR or some other function of
someone that's really dedicatedto doing this, this is actually
the best time to do it. Again,come from the construction
industry, but if I say we'vebeen doing estimating or
scheduling or pre constructionor any of these pre construction
services, what does that looklike in the future in this new
paradigm? To me, that's hard forthe core business to answer

(43:17):
because they've been doing thisfor X, Y, Z years, and they've
gotten to this current steadystate.
But hiring an EIR, bringing themon board to question this, and
that should something If theanswer is, we should change,
what does that change look like?Is that a new product? Is that a
new service? Is that a newcompany? And then we go back to
where we began.
It's like, okay, should we spinit out? Do they have the company
resources that they're behind?Etcetera, etcetera. So I would

(43:37):
say, if I'm advising a new CEOwrit large, I wouldn't just say,
Do it, just simply becausethat's a cliche answer. But
yeah, do it.
I think you should spend sometime thinking about what that
actually looks like if you wereto do it. I don't think you
should do it unless you'rewilling to back up the truck and
actually give resources. I don'tjust mean financial, I mean the
company resources behind thatposition.

I really like your answer on this, Victor, and I
want you to double down on thecensus because you just hit the
three main things that I hearoften about this and you started
to touch on that last thing thatreally puts the nail in the
coffin which is the alignment ofincentives for the EIR to do the
work that they're used to doing.Usually those people are
motivated by equity or you know,growing the company to the

(44:18):
largest outcome that they canget it to, right? But usually
when you're inside the walls ofa big bigger organization, they,
you can't make more money thanthe CEO is what they will say,
right? So you have to be open ifyou're going to bring into
somebody entrepreneurial that ifthey build a thing and they can
build it as big as they possiblycan, you need to incentivize
them to do so. And that's not tojust be a base salary.

Yeah. Yeah. This is, I could not agree more. I
could not agree more. But that'shard.
That's sticky. That's sticky. Ittakes a lot of confidence as an
executive to say like, yes, thisis the right thing for the
organization, even if thatperson makes more money than me.
And you see it all the time withsales folks who are like, Sales
guys are crushing it. Let'sincrease our quota.
The sales guys are crushing itagain. It's counterintuitive. If

(45:00):
you're bringing in business,you're bringing in revenue,
you're revolutionizing thebusiness, it's value add to
everyone in the organization.That's where I mean, at the
beginning, you have to haveculture in order to facilitate
that. And so, yeah, I thinkincentives do matter.
And this is kind of the, I don'tknow, was a dirty secret. This
is why you see a lot of folks atCVCs going back to the VC
example. It doesn't always panout because in a traditional

(45:22):
venture, you get carry. So whatis carry? Investors give you
money, you return the money.
And then if you return more thanwhat they gave you, you get a
percent of that. But if you goto a CVC, you get same benefits.
You don't have the sameincentives. Don't know. All that
to say, a similar thing happensin an AIR role.
Yes, we all have a base salary.We need to pay the bills. But
what's on top of that? What ismy motivation? Is it I'm just

(45:45):
that passionate?
Is it goodwill? Am I looking fora financial outcome here? Am I
going be a partner someday? Whatis that? I think folks need to
get pretty crystal clear as towhat they're offering to a
potential EIR and vice versa.
What is the EIR walking into?They need to both have alignment
and agreement as to what thatagreement is before one side
could really feel confident, inmy opinion, moving forward.

And the flip side of that, just to jump in real
quickly, is as an operatoroutside of a parent, you also
have a lot more degrees offreedom. And we're way closer to
the true north of markettraction and sort of sitting
next to your client and customerand things like that. And so in
many organizations, it's verytough to cannibalize, in many

(46:28):
cases, still successfulbusinesses to build the next
generation of something, right?Because in many cases, you're
eating into your margin in orderto get higher volume. You know,
you're sort of reconfiguringthings that most of the
organization has stood.
And so, it's not just alignmentof incentives, but it's
alignment of incentives atmultiple levels, right? Because

(46:51):
you may be acting against thepersonal incentives of a part of
the organization for thebetterment of the bigger
organization, right? And thenfrom the EIR side, if you
haven't been in residencebefore, there's a lot of like
organizational management stuffthat most operators are just not
trained on. This is not theirbackground, right? And so, you

(47:13):
know, and I guess the thirdpiece to this is there's a lot
of things that are culturallythere because it's a different
risk environment, right?
So in construction andespecially in the physical
world, like you have to managesafety risk and things like that
because, you know, people haveto go back to their families.
And so I've said this before inother discussions, you know,
moving fast and breaking thingswhen there is I beams flying

(47:36):
around is not acceptable. It'sjust not, you know, like your
decision and lack of control forrisk should not end up, you
know, killing somebody. And sothere are some of these things
that are the way that they arefor a reason and sort of making
sense of that and being eyeswide open is part of the

(47:57):
challenge and opportunity. But,you know, I didn't want it to
sort of make it a one-sidedbashing of, Listen, residents,
everything is broken.
And, you know, it's morecomplicated. And I'm not saying
that's what you guys are saying,but like, that's where I think
the real magic has just itstranslation, but it's got to be
in sort of the appropriateorganizational and cultural
context because some things arethe way that they are for a

(48:19):
reason. I didn't mean to stopthe thing, but I just like I
where it's it's pretty easy tosort of poke at the bear. But
every once in a while, the bearis big and the bear is strong
for a reason.

It's true. I think that's fair. It's like,
yeah, it's classic innovationdilemma. What are going to do?
You're reinvent yourself as anew organization?
But again, they've beensuccessful and not just burnout,
but any company that has an EIO.They've been successful to date
in order to even facilitate thatsort of position. And so there's
a little bit of a push and pull.I think you nailed it on the

(48:51):
head about a lot of the earlywork has to be change
management. You have to manageexpectations, you have to manage
relationships, you have to getalignment.
Because if you don't, what areyou going to do when you get a
flashy new toy? No one in thebusiness is going to adopt it.
You're going to have a hard timeselling it. That is part of the
job too. And you mentioned a lotof innovators or founders or
EIRs coming out from the startupworld.

(49:11):
Like, no, we'll just move fast.We'll break things. We'll create
The business is the technology.It's actually sometimes the
opposite. You got to fit theother way around in order to
make it work, and that requiresthe backing of the company by
doing some of the softer thingslike getting consensus, getting
alignment, etcetera, etcetera.

One sort of surprising example, actually,
now that we're talking about itcomes to mind that I see is that
technology innovators come froma technology culture, right?
They're used to sort ofdeploying new things and using
maybe science, maybe process,whatever to do things
differently. Operators are allabout performance and, you know,

(49:47):
managing risk. And so there'slike actually a very large
culture clash on, Hey, I havethis new thing. It's shiny.
Shiny means scary, right? Solike when you in in climate tech
and energy transition, have thissort of concept of first of a
kind, right? When you say firstof a kind to a financier that
just like all the risk alarms gooff, right? The insurance folks

(50:10):
are like, how many hours ofoperations? Ten thousand hours.
We need at least fifty thousandhours. Right? And then the
financing folks are like, firstof a kind, we'd like to do like
fourth of a kind. Right? Here'swhy.
Here's like sort of the and soit's just like one word that is
exciting and motivating to onegroup is scary and like red flag

(50:31):
to the other group. And so, youknow, I've seen that kind of
play out in in that context,which I think is kind of
applicable here actually, thatthat you're brave and strong
could mean scary and dangerousto another group of people that
are really important for you towork with.

There's that translation. That's the job. You
got to be able to do that. Yougot to be able to talk both
languages. You got to sit in themiddle and be able to translate.
Fundamentally, the guy thatcreated the wheel, you know what
I mean? Going back toAnytimeFear, the guy that
created the wheel, that's scaryfor folks. Well, no, we've
already got a process in place.This guy has a job, he does
this. You got sleds.
I know. Make Yeah. Any example.That is part of the job. That is

(51:13):
innovation at its core.

Yeah. I I'd love to dig in a little bit. So you went
from the EIR role to a strategyrole. And we were talking a
little bit before we kicked offthe recording here on how having
the EIR role gives you maybe alittle bit of a different
perspective in sort of otherfunctions of the organization. I
would love to have you dig intothat for a little while.

Yeah, strategy is interesting. Going back to
the EIR role, it's like, okay,if your mandate is to go figure
out where we can createadditional value for a
corporation through invention orinnovation of new products,
services or companies, that's apretty cool mandate. So when you
think about the translation ofstrategy, it's similar, but

(51:54):
different. It's similar in thatyou're still thinking about the
long term horizon of anorganization or a function,
depending on strategy role. Butthen the question is, can you
make it more grounded?
Can you make it more applicableto the organization? So for me,
in my role, I was really focusedon operation strategy. So
supporting the business, notjust the enterprise thinking
about, here are the goals forthe next three to five years,
but what makes sense for theorganization, for business, for

(52:16):
people that grew up in theindustry, in the business to go
execute on that. So that couldbe any number of priorities. I
won't share too much there, butI think it's, can you be
embedded in the business tounderstand the long term trends,
the long term opportunities, andhow do you steer a massive
behemoth of a ship into thatdirection?
I'm only one person, only oneman, but I think the job of a
strategist is to see what'sgoing to be coming down the

(52:38):
pipeline and hopefully makesense of heads or tails in order
to steer the boat in thatdirection. And I would say one
of the challenging aspects ofthat there's a couple, but one
of them that I think really doesplay into the IR role
specifically is that if my jobwas to see what was possible,
what is capable of happening,translating that back into the
organization now in a differentcapacity is actually really

(52:58):
unique. Because I mentionedearlier, part of the job of
being an EIR within acorporation is to do the
consensus building, do therelationship building. And so
now in the strategy role, lot ofthose foundations are already
there. You already haverelationships with folks that
are running business units, thatare directors, etcetera,
etcetera.
And so when you go talk to themabout, Hey, I think I'm looking
at doing a competitive analysisof XYZ company. This is what the

(53:19):
industry is doing. Where are wepositioned within that? What
does the future look like? Andhow do we chart the path between
here and there?
It's easier for you to have thatdialogue with them because
you've already done the frontwork upfront to prove yourself
that one, you're capable. Two,you're actually bringing them
along for the journey and notdictating because you said in
some office or something. Butit's hard. I think it's hard to

(53:39):
do that work because the timehorizons may be a little bit
different between the EIR, but Ithink functionally, they're
actually similar in the factthat you have to be aware of
what's happening today. You needto be able to see what's
happening in the future.
And then I think specificallyfor the strategy role, it's more
so internally, how do we do thattogether as a team? Less so, how
do I do that on Island just inbenefit of the organization?

Incredible. And Victor, I want make sure we get
you out of here on time, man. Iknow we're approaching up the
clock, but I want to know thatbeyond the EIR role, what can
you share with our audience onwhat are you doing outside of
work? What are the things thatVictor is working on that you're
passionate about outside ofwork?

Yeah, there's a couple of things there. One, I
enjoy walking. It sounds silly,but I enjoy walking. I enjoy
putting on my headphones andvibing out to some EDM. I think
that's fun.
I play some soccer every once ina while to stay active a little
bit. I enjoy being outdoors.That's all on the fun stuff. I
also help run an orphanage inKenya. I mentioned earlier in

(54:36):
the call that I'm originallyfrom there, so I help run an
orphanage there.
The number grows all the time,but somewhere around 45 kids in
our care. We're actually in theprocess of trying to build a
school for them so that we couldhave a private school for folks
that are in our care, as well asa community to come and join and
get a pretty good education.It's a rural Kenya, so we're
doing a lot of good work. Thestories these kids have are

(54:57):
really challenging, to say theleast. And so I think we're
doing some pretty good workthere that adds a lot of value
to me.
And then personally, long termcareer wise, I think going back
to the IR role, I eventuallywant to start something. That's
just the reality. And I thinkhaving seen and spent a lot of
time in industry and see again,still within the construction
space, I think part of my goalis to understand if you were to
take a look at any given projectand the trends of the types of

(55:20):
projects that are happeningacross America, where are the
bottlenecks that I can add valueASAP? We all have a part to play
in the benefit of thisorganization and the benefit of
this industry. So for me, that'swhere I see my future.

What's a good way for folks to get in touch or
follow your work? The follow-upquestion is going to be how can
the network help you? Butultimately, if they can't get in
touch, that's kind of the firststep. So what's a good way that
folks can kind of continue tostay connected and see what
you're up to?

Well, number one, professionally LinkedIn.
Feel free to hit me up on there,send me a DM. Similar to
Twitter, it's my real name outthere. So feel free to look me
up and find me there. LinkedInor Twitter, those are the two
best things.
I guess it's X now, but you knowwhat I mean. Reach out to me on
those platforms.

Awesome. And then what can the network do to
support what you're working on?

It's a really good question. I wish I had a
better answer for you. I thinkthe big thing, would flip it to
them, is how could I help thenetwork? I think now having done
this podcast, the listeners willhave heard a little bit about my
background. Again, get incontact, you can share more.
But I think for me, I'm at apoint where I just want to give
back to folks. A lot of folkshave taken a chance on me. This
is my opportunity to pay for it.And so network the could help

(56:34):
me, I'm sure, in some way, butI'm trying to make sure I could
help the network as well.

Oh my goodness. I'm desperate for a part two,
but we'll leave it there. We'llleave it there for now. Victor,
thank you so much. It's been anhonor and privilege to have you
on the podcast, my friend.

Yeah. Thanks for the time. Guys. Really, really
appreciate this.

Great discussion. Man, love that discussion. I
always really like talking withspeaking with Victor. I've known
Victor for a couple of yearsnow, and I always find him to be
kind of an insightful andgenuine guy. And it was a great
opportunity to actually spend alittle bit of time with him, you
know, learn about some of histhings that he's excited about

(57:11):
off the balance sheet.
And it's really just a pleasurein connecting with good people,
folks that are very thoughtfuland intentional. And I think
this episode just kinda capturedVictor's spirit a little bit.
And so I'm excited to to seekind of where, you know, his
next leap takes him and sort ofwhat he ends up doing

(57:34):
professionally, whether it's inkind of the context of a large
contractor or something in theentrepreneurial world. But but
in any case, I'm sure we'll beseeing a lot more of Victor
soon. What'd you think of theconversation, Terrance?

Man, massive plus one. Just a such an insightful
guy. Somebody who will inspireyou to to wanna do something
more. Right? He will inspire youto want to take the leap, and
inspire people who who are lessadaptable today, who wanna get
that level of adaptability thatVictor has shown in his life and

(58:11):
his career, I think it's justgonna be a treat, for our
audience.
And, I feel like I've known thisguy for a couple of years now.
You've actually known him for afew years, but his ability to
connect with people and to tellhis story around the things that
he that he's accomplished andthat he's done and that he's
going to do next, is prettyinspiring. So I'm looking

(58:33):
forward to our audiencelistening to this episode.
Thanks for joining us on Live.We hope today's episode offered
you valuable insights into theentrepreneurial journey.
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss out on future
episodes and check out thedescription for more details. Do
you have questions orsuggestions? Please reach out to
us. Connect with us on socialmedia. We really value your

(58:53):
input.
Catch us next time for moreinspiring stories and
strategies. Keep pushingboundaries and making your mark
on the world. I'm Terrance Orrwith my co-host, Ilya Tabakh,
signing off. Let's keepbuilding.

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Episode 15 - Unconventional Paths in Innovation with Victor Muchiri

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 15 - Unconventional Paths in Innovation with Victor Muchiri