May 19, 2025 • 34 mins
Elevate With Grace: Navigating the New World of Work | Season 3 Launch
Welcome to the first episode of Season 3 of Elevate With Grace! Join Claire and Miranda as they reflect on the journey since 2021, discussing significant changes in the workplace and the evolving concept of success. This episode dives into topics such as the impact of remote work, the importance of mental health, effective leadership, and communication strategies in the modern work environment. Tune in for insights, actionable tips, and a fresh perspective on creating a successful career and life on your own terms. Don’t miss out on their reflections, challenges, and book recommendations tailored to help you thrive in 2025 and beyond.
Season 1 - Summaries
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FmCKbt1vQV-Rx65tWDp-clvTIFRlg6iaLNe8h1aN_xU/edit?usp=sharing
Season 2 - Summaries - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NI8RFXPsLI7bL6y54gAzMU1JEovSmEKhpwThELPlutY/edit?usp=sharing
00:00 Introduction: Welcome to Elevate With Grace
00:26 Reflecting on Past Seasons and Changes
01:19 Exploring Success in 2025 and Beyond
02:00 Adapting to New Work Environments
09:10 The Importance of Effective Communication
22:10 Embracing Change and Finding Balance
31:35 Action Challenge and Conclusion
Music created by Claire's daughter Hannah
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Miranda (00:00):
Are you feeling overworked, undervalued, and
stuck in the daily juggle?
Knowing you are meant for more?
Welcome to Elevate With Grace,the podcast that cuts through
the noise to bring you the mostvaluable insights expert, wisdom
and real world strategies withbite-sized actionable tips.
We are here to help you Takebold steps towards success on
your terms.
No more spinning plates, justreal progress, real impact and a
(00:23):
career and life that truly workfor you.
Claire (00:26):
It's Exciting to be back for our first episode of Season
three.
it's Claire here and if you'vehad the chance to listen to our
season three pre-launch episode,you'll know that Miranda and I
have been reflecting together onwhat's changed since our first
two seasons of Elevate withGrace in 2021 and 2022.
We shared why now feels like theright moment to return to these
(00:47):
conversations with fresh energy,deeper insights, and a renewed
commitment to helping women leadwith clarity, courage, and
grace.
If you missed it, please go backand take a listen, but for now,
let's get cracking with episodeone.
For those of you who are with usin the early years in seasons
one and two we explored ways todiscover your why, cultivate
(01:08):
your career, and take smartrisks Success often meant
survival, juggling all thethings and purpose was something
that we were curious about andexploring.
But maybe not always bold enoughto chase.
this season, we are here to divedeeper into what success means
in 2025 and beyond, and waysthat we can build it on our own
terms.
Miranda (01:27):
I'm so excited to be here for our official season
three launch and pleased that weare jumping into elevate with
grace with a new lens.
And Claire so thrilled that it'syou and I back in this journey
together.
You are awesome.
As you've said, real things havechanged and it's taken time to
grapple with that.
There are things that haveremained the same and relevant
from seasons one and two.
We'll be pulling togetherhighlight from time management
(01:50):
boundary setting, habit forming,purpose building or clarifying.
In our show notes we're puttinga bit of a cheat sheet of what
season one and two were.
But there's been a lot ofchange.
To be honest, I didn't reallyknow what to discuss last year
or even in 23.
We've had a lot of grappling,adapting, learning, it really
felt like nobody had theanswers.
I looked to a lot of thoughtleaders and I think they were
(02:11):
all sort of just.
seeing how it went.
I felt like we were all justwaiting for solid ground and it
feels like we're there.
More understanding that this isgoing to go forward and not
revert back, which is giving mea lot of confidence.
It's an awesome opportunity forus to test and learn what this
new world look like forourselves.
So we get to be in the driver'sseat, which is exciting as well.
There's a nice universityexample you allow the students
(02:32):
to walk the best path throughthe grass and then you make the
concrete path.
I feel like the last couple ofyears we've been walking in the
grass seeing where we're gonnaland.
Claire, what do you think stayedthe same and what are you
excited about in terms of thegreater shifts?
Claire (02:44):
I love that analogy about walking through the grass
before we're creating concrete.
That's a really good way todescribe what we're all feeling
and if I reflect back to threeor four years ago and where we
are now.
in my mind, there are somethings that are still very
important to many people interms of work and our working
lives the criticality ofeffective leadership is even
(03:05):
more important maybe.
the need and want to feelrecognized and appreciated.
Don't think that changed in thelast few years searching for
growth and developmentopportunities, definitely an a
driver that's always been there.
And, and still now, I suppose,,as we've just spoken about, The
world has also shiftedinfluenced by, of course the
pandemic and then this rapidlychanging digitally driven world.
(03:29):
there are some different themesthat are also coming out now
that perhaps weren't therebefore.
one that we're all familiar withit gets spoken about a lot in
the press and on LinkedIn isthis tension around flexibility
and remote work and how weshould and shouldn't approach
it.
Mental health and wellbeing is amuch bigger topic that's front
of mind, both in workplaces andlife in general.
(03:50):
I saw that Gallup who does a lotof the employee surveys and data
analysis one of their reportsrecently found that employee
engagement levels in the US havedropped to a decade low of 31%
in 2024.
That's matching 2014 levels andthat the decline is particularly
(04:10):
notable among workers youngerthan 35.
Linked to this tension aroundflexibility and remote working
and hybrid working is attitudeson career progression and how
they're changing.
There was a recent survey doneby Robert Half in March, 2025
that showed for Australianbosses that three in four
employers said that officeattendance played a significant
(04:33):
role in promotions with only 13%of employers and bosses saying
that it played no impact.
of course the explosion ofgeneration ai and
democratization of technologiesin our workplaces, in our lives
is playing a much bigger partnow than probably what it has in
the past.
And all of these are reallyunderscoring a very complex and
(04:54):
evolving relationship betweenemployees and their work
environments.
What about you?
Miranda?
What have you reflected onthat's changed and what hasn't
over the last three to fouryears?
Miranda (05:03):
I think it's really interesting the unlearning.
There is a lot of unlearninghappening from what we used to
know or accept versus what wewon't.
And I feel like the Gen Zs havealmost pushed that upon the
millennials, it's like, why doyou accept this?
I don't accept this.
This is not how I wanna be as amanager or a boss.
and then there's been a lot ofpressure and so it's really
(05:24):
seeing.
Boomers and millennialspotentially falling back to type
and wanting to go back to how itwas when they were in their
twenties and this is what youshould be expecting in this
workforce.
I think there's a lot of peoplethat want things to go back the
way they were.
And then there's a lot of peoplethat are we're gonna keep
changing, we're gonna keepimproving, we're gonna keep
going forward.
I also think that workplacegrowth and development, there
has definitely been a push forit.
(05:44):
It's always been there, but Ithink what's changed within that
space is that, previously Ithink we were expected to do it
outside of work hours.
Occasionally there'd be atraining day or something, then
follow up that would happen andnow I think it's a bit more
we're gonna be doing this, butit's gonna be happening in work
hours and we're not going tomake additional time for that.
I also think in terms of thatwork life balance I think it's
always been there probably sincethe eighties or nineties when
(06:05):
work really ramped up and tookover lives.
But I think the pushback postcovid is now a demand.
We had a desire for it.
It was like, wouldn't that benice if we could find a way of
achieving that?
I think it was a personalresponsibility to make a
work-life balance as opposed toa work responsibility.
the shift feels like it's been awork responsibility.
And there's been obviously somelegislation recently about
(06:26):
switching off at seven o'clockfor a big portion community to
make sure that we do have someof that work life balance, When
I think of a new world of workand what's changed, what I'm
loving most is that in many waysbeing invited to reimagine what
the future of work could be.
optimistically, I feel that thisis a great time, to test and
learn within a workplace and.
I think that really is happeningat all levels there's a bit of a
(06:46):
pushback both from managementand from.
All different levels of work tothe coordinators are saying this
is what I expect.
And I think the playback to thatis how are you gonna help make
that happen?
And obviously that depends onyour workplace, but there is a
lot more thinking andconversation happening at all
ages about how we are going tobring this workplace to life.
and I'm excited that you and Iare having this conversation and
that our podcast will befocusing on this as well the
(07:07):
rise of hybrid work has reallybrought a lot of freedoms to the
workplace, but it's caused anincredible amount of friction
particularly your seniorleaders, there is a, a level of
micromanagement which feels likeit's come back a bit.
We want know that our people areworking and we don't believe
that we're getting sometimesthat same level of commitment or
dedication they're work fromhome.
experience and the experienceI've seen around me is that
(07:29):
actually the people are tend tobe a little bit more productive
when they're working from home,but with a balance some days in
the office and some days fromhome.
There's been a little bit more.
Pressure on middle managementand it has looked like a far
less attractive job for youngergenerations.
And I think collectively, thatgeneration come out and said,
it's gonna look like this, I'mnot sure I want it.
I might get a bit more into gigeconomy or something else.
(07:50):
I did a course in 2024 withInventium, focused around hybrid
working and how to findimprovements they did a full
trends briefing.
last year to go through what arethe global trends that we're
seeing.
And a big one was that middlemanagers were facing that crunch
and that there needed to be moresupport and awareness around it.
inventing are doing a great jobin terms of bringing that
awareness to life andchallenging workplaces
(08:10):
Atlassian's done a similar,piece over the last 12 months.
The great part of hybrid work,is a freedom to design a better
week.
Design a week that makes sensefrom a workplace productivity
point of view, but also a lifeproductivity point of view.
I start very early I havereclaimed family time as a big
part of that, which has beenawesome.
Something that I slipped back toover this time of change.
Was one I hadn't experienced fora while but it was, you know, a
(08:32):
lot of negative talk.
I was getting very frustratedwith myself that I wasn't having
a lot of great behaviors that Iwas I guess just a bit exhausted
with it all.
And couldn't come up with someof this thought leadership that
you and I are focusing on.
I was really just a bit lost inthe weeds.
I was not giving myself graceand positive self-talk.
So I brought back those 5:00 AMsaver habits I speak about in.
One of our earlier podcastsreally thinking about that
(08:53):
silence, affirmation, vision,exercise, and writing.
If I don't get to it, I'm okaywith it, but I do make sure that
I'm doing that a couple of timesa week?
What are those affirmations ofwhat you are doing right?
gratefulness is something weneed to continue to think about.
How I've communicated and, myexpectations for the workforce
have also changed, I touched onthose in our introduction
episode.
communication and learning tocommunicate in this new world is
(09:13):
a skill that we are all going tohave to be, retrained on in a
really, A big way.
I don't think anybody is ahundred percent in their
communication.
now that our world is a lot ofnon-verbal, there's a lot of
email or teams communications.
uh, there's a lot of videoconferencing
Claire (09:27):
and I think one of the challenges that we find around
communication is there's just somuch noise in the press because
it's just such.
Great click bait I saw anarticle recently that remember,
I think it was a Fortunearticle.
83% of Gen Zs admit to watchingNetflix or watching streaming
services during the workday.
And we're just battling it outin the media and so drawn in a
(09:50):
tug of war from side to side,you've pointed out around the
ways that you like to work, andthat's the whole concept of this
podcast around success on ourterms What does success mean to
me?
What does success mean to you?
And what does and doesn'tencourage productivity.and I
think it's really complexbecause every workplace is
different.
There's lots of differentperformance and behavior issues.
(10:11):
As you said, many of us arestruggling.
With what do we want now, andwhat does life look like and do
I want a traditional leadershipjourney or do I want more of a
portfolio career?
It feels like the options areendless and so it's a tricky,
and as you mentioned at somepoints, an exhausting.
Exercise to try to navigatethat.
I like how you, Reflected alittle bit on some of those
(10:32):
challenges that we had in ourearlier seasons.
like that you've brought the5:00 AM back and again you were
such a great advocate of the5:00 AM club and I just couldn't
get there.
But having said that, though,you talk about having some time
in the morning to do things likeexercise and write and do daily
pages and reflect is soessential to keep our energy
(10:55):
levels up.
For I have a much biggerappreciation for how I need to
have a very different mindset onmy response to the rapidly and
constantly changing environmentsthat we live in, in order to
stay energized, hopeful on thefuture keep focus.
On me being and values led.
you mentioned unlearning beforeand I'm finding that I'm having
(11:17):
to do a lot of unlearning fromall of the unconscious
conditioning over the last 20plus years over my life and my
leadership journey.
I try to connect to what's goingon now and what do we want our
future to be?
I think a big focus on beingcurious and open-minded and
connecting much more deeply withour colleagues, our friends, our
(11:38):
communities.
Curiosity and connection are areal cornerstone for me in terms
of the fundamentals ofcommunicating in this workplace
2.0, this life 2.0, I think ourleadership styles need to be
evolving and be more flexibleand open, and the skills of
active listening, braveconversations, of that we talked
about in previous seasons, Ithink it's about.
(12:00):
Responding in an agile way.
moving away from and reallybeing thoughtful about our
responses, and being agile abouthow we respond.
We need to approach things andflex our style in a lot of
different ways, because thediversity of who's in the
workplace and what we all want,from that has really changed a
(12:21):
and and I think I mentioned inour episode that for the first
time ever in history, in someworkplaces there's five
generations working in the sameworkplace, and that's huge.
In terms of what people want andneed.
Respect and kindness anddiversity, and especially with
that overlay of mental healthand wellbeing being a focus.
I did see, I think it was HarrisPoll, and Express Employment
(12:43):
Professionals released a surveyin March, 2025 saying that in
the US there's been a rise inworkplace toxicity, and that 30%
of US employees are seeking outnew jobs.
Because of confrontationalbehavior among coworkers, issues
such as unprofessionalcommunication and exclusion.
and so everyone demanding a fairand inclusive and thoughtful
(13:07):
workplace is, key for us to all.
Contribute to as you saidmanager struggle at the moment.
Because it's really hard to holdthat place between your staff
and the senior leadership.
But for all of us, inclusive andkind workplaces is really on a
lot of people's minds.
We are bombarded with alldifferent ways that people are
communicating with us there's somany channels.
(13:29):
I feel like we almost have to bea cyborg in terms of navigating
through emails and team chatsand text messages and WhatsApp
groups.
I like to talk about it ascommunication congestion.
There's so many different waysthat people can get in touch
with each other and so much dataflying about so many articles,
flying about so much stuff onsocial media, trying to draw our
attention towards so manydifferent priorities that I
(13:52):
think in terms of effectivecommunication, what you've
spoken about.
Even if it's a couple of times aweek in the morning, if you can
get up at 5:00 AM perhaps a bitlater for some of us, being able
to really step away from thatnoise and reflect on what our
gut's telling us, what webelieve, we think we need, being
values led and purpose led so wecan really take the bold action
(14:14):
that we need to for happy,successful, hopeful workplaces
and lives in this year andbeyond.
you've got a couple of favoritebooks on this topic so I'd like
to hear a little bit more aboutthat.
Miranda (14:25):
Absolutely.
But before we jump into it,resonated so much with what you
were saying on noise and theoverwhelm of noise.
And we know that overwhelm anddistraction are just one of the
worst things we can do foractual productivity.
Creativity.
And the way you were sayingthat, I was like, you know what?
There's definitely a disciplineonly check emails at nine 11 and
three o'clock.
Trying to really cordon off timeto do those emails, to take in
(14:46):
that noise, to mute thosenotifications because people can
reach you anytime I've gotpeople in the US and you'll
easily just them a team's noteand they'll pick it up and it's
11 o'clock for them at night.
so now I'm going on emails andI'm setting the delay so that
they don't see it until the nextday.
Or I've got a big note at thetop, don't look at this until
tomorrow.
Take control back from theirnoise and make sure that we are
commanding our time and we aredominating what's gonna keep
(15:09):
engaged, both on our personaland our professional lives.
I think that's a great successmetrics.
I am excited to explore that onefurther then it took everything
not to jump in when you weretalking about that choice and
how choice makes it so hard notto, get just lost in that missed
decision.
there's a beautiful Trevor Noahinterview with Simon Sinek and
he was talking about howcommunity, we just feel so lost
(15:30):
and the more choice we have.
That comes with income, thatcomes with where to live, the
less we connect with our and,even the workplace, things get a
little bit challenging and, oneof my very quick options is I.
can go and find another job.
I was so fascinated by thatworkplace toxicity statistic
you'd think it'd be different.
people are happier working inthese hybrid environments.
They're happier, less commute Soit's find it really fascinating.
(15:52):
I don't think it's completelyresolved.
How are we gonna get the best.
of our culture and also givepeople the beautiful, hybrid
space where they get that theywork at because whew, I don't
think I'd wanna give thatfreedom up, I really do wanna
have a workplace that, valuesempathy and kindness.
I don't think there's one personout there that doesn't need to
do some training, if I canrecommend a bit of reading,
super communicators, came out,early and Charles Duhe, he could
(16:15):
not have been better timed withit he's got a bit of a
psychological organizationalbehavior bend like your, um,
Brene Browns and your Adamgrads.
He's got another book Smarter,faster, better.
I'm curious how much of that nowin this new world.
So I might go back and have abit of a read this On, super
communicators really, looks atthose virtual communications and
calls'em out for being tootransactional that we've lost
(16:36):
the nuance of nonverbal cuesbecause we're not having that
small talk.
We're not finding those momentsof connection, to connect us
like we're a tribe.
Generally what we found is thatif people can find a point of
connection, then have aconversation about something
that's divergent.
What we are getting is, I needthis deadline, I've got this
thing.
Your priorities aren't mypriorities, and this is the
challenge, we haven't connectedon anything.
(16:57):
So, it just feels like it'sconstantly grading and you're
constantly demanding withouttaking any energy to connect
with me, get to get know me.
And it's a subconscious thing.
Honestly, I do not consciouslythink, have I connected with
this person and do they valueme?
but I do know I feel it andcertain people can ask something
of me and I'm there and otherpeople can ask it of me and I'm
frustrated the messaging hasn'tnecessarily changed.
So Duhigee, in this book, heactually recommends that we've
(17:19):
Become explicit in how wecommunicate make sure that it's
conscious.
We don't just allow what'shappened before.
You may have sent that email in2018 and it would've been
completely fine.
It's not completely fine in2025.
And so we have to almost relearnhow to be overly empathetic.
I really understand that you'regoing through that challenge.
Can I get five minutes with youon teams and we can discuss what
(17:39):
those priorities are.
but also that we understand whatyou've got on so I can
reprioritize some other thingsaround it.
And me as the employee going,don't you know how busy I am?
How dare you?
And I get it.
You know, because I feel it.
There's some great examples outthere the CIA.
One that he puts in his book isreally interesting in terms of
that active listening and thatkindness, and how it converts
from a conversation to having agreat relationship with this
(18:01):
person that you're trying toconvince to be a spy to finding
those common connections andthose common points of and
relationship they're actuallynow motivated to help you
because it's gonna help them.
It was fascinating.
It took him, Four or five goers,he thought he'd failed before he
was able to actually get thatright connection.
And it's not just being able tohave a great chat and whatever,
it's obviously a deeper level.
also a really good one, um,Netflix there as well, sent out
(18:24):
a communication that just lackedempathy, and actually caused,
big up arisal in Netflix and amassive change.
So now there is.
Explicit steps in place in theirworkplace to ensure empathy,
active listening and kindnesspart of their training modules
that everyone has to achieve,that everybody is held to
account for.
So Workplace 2.0, I think it'sbecome more explicit It's not
just what you do, it's not justthat you're a high achiever.
(18:46):
It's how you're doing it, howyou're showing up for others is
almost getting a 50 50 measurein terms of importance for your
performance.
And I think we'll start to see alot more of that because the
impact of your behavior, the 31%who don't wanna be in a
workplace anymore is massive.
And it's, too expensive, it'stoo hard.
So even if you are performing,if you pull down a whole nother
group because there's lost fouremployees there's gonna be an
issue.
(19:07):
More so I think than maybe weheld people to account before.
He also explicitly naming whattype of conversation that we're
having.
So I need to have a conversationthat's going to be a bit
emotional.
I need to have a conversationthat's going to be very
practical.
And I appreciate there's a lotof things going on.
So how can I frame that for youWhich is uncomfortable but I'm
interested to try it.
And yeah, just couldn't enoughhow many times he said explicit
(19:29):
your actions.
throughout this book.
Then the, the other one, I guessjust around that hybrid
workplace is, that, there hasbeen a lot of conversation in
the media about whether it'sgood, is it to blame for this
economic crisis that we're goingthrough?
Are people as productive?
I think there's been quite adecent amount of study in the
other way saying, no, it is.
So there is a clickbait to it.
But I think if we look at,macroeconomics, are going
(19:51):
through a period of, financialchallenge.
Workplaces are down.
I don't blame hybrid work forit.
I actually think it's a muchbigger issue than, an office
work environment.
But I think in the moment in2023 and 2024, when we are going
through it and workplaces arelooking at their balance sheets
and the main thing that'schanged is hybrid work.
I do think it got the blame forit.
and to put that in perspective,we haven't had a GDP of 0.03,
(20:15):
which is where we got Septemberlast year, since the nineties.
So most people in the workplace.
Have never lived through aneconomic hardship.
They've never lived through notgetting a promotion, not getting
a pay rise for, highperformance, having, workplace
budgets cut, having culturebudgets cut, I think they're
taking it out on each other alittle bit there as well.
So do think that it's not justhybrid work that has caused
(20:36):
that.
There is a lot of benefits toit.
Over 50% of Australian workers,are splitting time between home
and office.
It is a real thing and.
Don't know if we can undo that.
I think it's going to be acontinuation for our future, do
think we need to learn to workwith it and to also look at
those other factors it is verynormal globally for us to go up
and down in terms of growth likewe are, I think, going through
(20:58):
what is a normal period insociety, Covid definitely helped
cause it, we will also go intogrowth again, so it's a short
term pain, hopefully.
Claire (21:05):
I think it's human nature.
You to try to find somethingquick to blame it on, like
hybrid work.
I think you'll make a reallyexcellent point there.
People are experiencingsignificant cost of living
changes.
Like the interest rates havebeen up high for the first time
in 20 years.
Sure.
Maybe.
Older millennials were cominginto the workplace as we had the
global financial crisis.
(21:26):
But really Australia was quiteprotected from that, Whereas now
it's blowing my mind that if Iwanted to have a coffee in the
city, it's$6 for a coffee andthe expense of living now and
conversations around pricing,younger people out of the
housing market and all of thosestresses as well as businesses
being under pressure for as yousaid, the productivity metric
(21:49):
and, where we're at as a countryfrom the productivity growth.
But also individually we'rehurting a fair bit over the last
few years, because of the risinginterest rates and the inflation
and things like that.
So yeah the theme of thisconversation I think is it's
complex I have to get supercommunicators and read it.
You've talked to me about it afew times, you've really enticed
(22:10):
me.
The last thing we wanted totouch on in this episode is
about how we reframe and embracechange in the context of
everything that we're talkingabout.
There's so much going onholistically both in our lives
and our workplace, and it'sshifting and flexing and moving
all the time.
How do we make sure that wedon't continue to be exhausted
(22:31):
from it?
How do we make sure that we arelooking forward to, as you said,
experimenting with it, lookingfor the enjoyment of this new
world that we can make work forus at a whole of life level and
see it as a real opportunity tomove forward and not go back to
the way things were or know, howdo we look at it with a hopeful
perspective, trust in the futureand bring a positive energy
(22:54):
force to it.
That's not, as I mentioned inour pre teaser e an easy thing
for us to do as humans.
So we are biologicallyprogrammed to seek safety and to
feel safe and.
This relentlessly changing pacecoupled with the information
overload and the click bait andall that it's not easy to change
the way that we think aboutchange but we absolutely need
(23:16):
to.
Right?
And I, am.
thinking quite deeply about howwe can do that.
We really need to find a way tofall in love with the process of
discovery and learning andconsciously telling ourselves on
the daily that we will be okayif we don't know what the
outcome will be.
We want certainty, like it'shuman nature.
And so learning to build musclesaround it's okay that we don't
(23:41):
know what we don't know andactually gives us a little bit
of permission to experiment andlearn and discover.
And I think, trying to frameourselves into that way of
enjoying change, it's about.
Choosing playfulness as we goabout our lives as well and I
guess giving ourselves abreather from time to time about
this needing to search forpurpose and the need to, meet
(24:02):
external markers of whatconstitutes success.
This need to look for quick waysand quick wins to make money and
to have a fast career path.
Everything still requiresresilience and hard work and,
it's tricky to find that right.
Balance.
I can't remember where I firstheard this concept, but it
(24:23):
really resonated with me Andit's the concept of eustress and
distress and it's two verydifferent types of stress and
stress responses.
And so eustress is consideredpositive stress and it's often
associated with motivation andexcitement.
While distress is obviouslynegative stress, which can lead
to physical and mental strain.
(24:43):
Then you've got avoidance ofstress altogether.
And in between is this conceptof eustress, which is where
you're giving yourself enoughstress that makes you feel
motivated and thrive.
And I think that's where we'retrying to look at in terms of
finding that balance of gettinga great energy source and energy
from our daily lives that fuelsus and gives the hopefulness
(25:04):
that we're looking for and thewillingness to maybe take risks,
and maybe not look so much fortransformational change anymore.
It's more about incrementaldaily change and test and learn
and.
Those agile strategies are muchmore helpful, I think in 20, 25
and beyond than I need totransform my life and I need to
find my massive purpose.
(25:24):
It's much more about trial anderror, like you said, about
walking through the grass andenjoying the grass before you.
Find the concrete path and evenif you find the concrete path,
maybe you should go back towandering along the grass every
now and then.
I don't think it's as linearanymore.
And I think there'sopportunities in that.
A friend of, a friend of mine,Andrea Clark.
She just released a new bookcalled Adapt.
(25:46):
And, it's a great read.
It's a simple read and it talksa lot about adapting in this
changing world.
her model that she focuses on isgot four key steps around
adapting effectively to change.
And it's being aware andstepping into and leaning into
what's changing around Acceptingthat it's changing.
Activating and optimism aboutthat change and then releasing
(26:09):
what's holding us back.
So I think we're not the onlyones that are wanting to talk
about this and see a hopefullens on it and how we can adapt
as humans and leaders in thisenvironment.
But yeah, I thought I'd mention.
That book
Miranda (26:20):
fantastic.
No, it sounds like a great bookand I can't wait to check it
out.
It's exactly what I think we'reall looking for, which is how do
you adapt to this and what arewe thinking about?
So a little bonus episode thatwe should be looking at for that
book.
And, super communicated.
Look, I found it reallyinteresting'cause I am a huge
fan of change.
I on change.
I've always been like, yeah,what's that next challenge?
(26:40):
What's that next thing thatwe're gonna take on?
I don't want a role that's thesame every day.
I wanna be able to, keepadapting to that change and keep
changing.
And so me, I found it reallyinteresting that I did not adapt
very well over the last twoyears.
Like I was really a bit lost inthe weeds and I think it was
because there was no guarantee,there was a lot of media saying,
we're gonna go back to the wayit was.
There's no direction to wherethe change is going.
(27:03):
I think at all points in time,when the internet was rising, we
knew that things were going tobe better.
We knew that productivity wasgoing to be enhanced.
So there was a goal, and somepeople adapted it really
quickly, and some people didn't.
But eventually we all got there.
The adopters right through tothe laggards and we do all
eventually get there in terms ofthis change.
But in this area, I think theearly adopters were like, why
(27:23):
are we adopting, not quite surewhere we're going.
And I was looking around forthose thought leaders to give me
that inspiration and direction.
I feel like it's coming out now.
We're seeing these books comingout in 25 that we finally go,
oh, actually I can see thatlight at the horizon.
Let's go and one of the reallyexciting things, I think as part
of that is ai.
And the potential of ai.
There's a lot of fear around AIand, can't wait to explore that
(27:44):
with you in future episodes ofthe pros and the cons and the,
the opportunities and, and someof the maybe pitfalls.
But I think that's probably onearea that's sort of pulled me
out of this to go, hang on, thisis something I can control.
I need to learn as much as I canabout this.
And I have over the last 12months soaked in as much,
LinkedIn learning and websitesand newsletters and chat, GPT
and co-pilot training and Canvatraining, just to try and
(28:06):
understand what it can do, whatit means.
What are the potential of these,um, these tools that are coming
out there?
So I think that's prettyexciting, and I can honestly
tell you that the, that werethere 12 months ago to the tools
that are there today, aresignificantly different.
So we all feel like we've missedthe boat already or that we
don't really understand thisthing.
And honestly it is changingevery day.
(28:28):
It is the grass that we arewalking through to see how we
make that path.
That is our theme fortodayBefore I think just having
the conversation and notnecessarily knowing what the end
goal is, but knowing that wewant things to improve, I think
we can reset that expectation asthat is our goal.
How do we improve?
How do we just find better waysof living?
How do we find better ways ofworking?
And what are some of the toolsthat can get there?
We might not know what the endgame is.
(28:48):
But I think that's enough of arudder or a vision to get me, on
board and getting back intothose habits and not feeling so
tired all the time because thateustress, I have not heard of it
in that way, but I've certainlyunderstand, the idea of distress
versus eustress and I'm ahundred percent there.
there's a lot of noise, there'sa lot of distress, there's a lot
of.
Fear and, risk, adversebehavior.
(29:09):
I don't really know how tofunction.
I've really struggled in thatspace, eustress, in the energy,
in the, you've gotta get 20things done in a day, and it's
got like lots of momentum.
I'm there, I'm ready.
That's the kind of change that Ican thrive in.
that's what I guess I've learnedfor myself is that I need to get
myself out of those reallynegative environments.
Turn off the noise.
Don't watch the news.
Try and avoid as much click baitas I can, because once I go down
(29:31):
and spiral into that space, Ifind it incredibly hard to then
go, well, what, what am I doingwith all of this?
Oh my goodness, I'm missingthese opportunities.
I've got fomo.
I dunno which way to turn.
What it has done is forced me toreally prioritize what's
important to me.
Is it Diary of a CEO, it'ssomebody who speaks about that
idea of a fisherman who wants tohave a quality of life where he
works from seven in the morningto two in the afternoon so he
(29:53):
can come home, spend time withhis wife and kids, and have that
great family time.
And then there's this, well whydon't you wanna own multiple
franchises and have multipleboats'cause once you make lots
of money, you'll be able to havethe time to do that in 10 years
time.
And that real shift between,hang on.
can maybe have a good work lifebalance and I can have some
quality of life now.
I don't have to just keepchurning to eventually get it
(30:16):
when I retire has been a reallyimportant shift.
I have been trying actively tohave more small talk.
I used to think small talk wasnot a good thing.
and having learned thatconnectivity is so important and
really thinking about how I showup for my teammates with
curiosity and empathy, and I dotake that time to have that
small talk as opposed tothinking, that's wasting my time
(30:37):
and I should be doing somethingmore productive has been a bit
of a game changer in terms ofmaking sure that I really
connect with the people in myenvironment.
You know, how are you going?
How are you feeling?
What's going on with your world?
And then we can get to the work.
I've also given myself morebalance.
I think I've spoken to thatenough, broadening my community.
I have actively sought outcommunity, whether it's in my
neighborhood.
I've volunteered at the school.
(30:58):
I've thought about more hobbiesand tried to connect with people
within my hobby.
I've tried things out like parkrun.
Unfortunately it wasn't for me,but I'm gonna keep trying
different things until I findsomething more fitness to get
excited about again.
I've taken more reading likeback, things that I really
enjoyed when I was in my earlytwenties fantasy fiction.
Just a bit more of that as wellas the reading for learning, the
reading to know, the reallyimportant books.
(31:19):
Claire, you and I recently readJuice as part of our.
Book club.
That was an impactful book.
That was a heavy book.
I definitely need it.
I still think about it today,but I also, read a bit of Tracy
Harding and just escape realityfor a minute as well.
so certainly looking at thatand, reconsidering what I wanna
achieve in the next five yearsand what that balance looks
like.
Which I think is a perfect wayto finish this episode off with
an action challenge because I'dlove that kind of thinking to go
(31:41):
to all of our beautifullisteners.
Think about what's changed andwhat hasn't for you over the
last couple of years.
Write it down.
In fact, if you're happy toshare it, we'd love to read it.
And we certainly looked forwardto going through maybe some of
those comments in our nextepisode.
We'd love to see,, what haveresonated from what we shared
and what you thought wascompletely crazy.
Then really would love to thinkabout, what are the
opportunities that you can takecontrol of in this new world of
work are you learning some AItools?
(32:03):
Are you having firmconversations about hybrid can
help suit you?
Are you switching off from workafter seven o'clock?
What are those things that youare doing?
So we'd love to hear it and abit more of an action challenge
for us to move into for the nextepisode.
Claire (32:15):
I, I just love all your insights.
I know that, um, As per usual,we try to keep our episodes
tight, but we get so excitedabout the content, so I am going
to leave it at the actionchallenge.
I think it's a great actionchallenge.
I'm looking forward to divinginto that for our next episode,
particularly because.
For the next episode, we'll beexploring what redefining
(32:36):
success looks like Given all ofthe context of work and life as
it is we speak a lot aboutsuccess on our own terms, and
how to create it.
And so I think that relooking atsome of the concepts on how we
can do that in this newworkplace, 2.0 and our new lives
and beyond.
We'll be exploring that inepisode two next month we can't
(32:56):
wait for you to join us forthat.
We've put all the curatedcontent that we've mentioned
today in the podcast episodenotes.
So please check that out and dipinto anything that in.
Advise you to take smallactionable steps to create
success on your own terms Formore inspiration, please visit
our socials on Insta, Facebookor LinkedIn.
(33:17):
We'd love to hear from you.
drop us a note in one of oursocials channels or email us at
Elevate with Grace.
At gmail.com Please, please likeand subscribe this podcast.
That's how we get out there tomore people.
And please tell your friendsabout us.
If you like us, please don'ttell them anything if you didn't
like it., And thanks so much forlistening.
Thank you, Miranda.
(33:38):
Always learn so much when I'mtalking to you, so I appreciate
it.
I feel uplifted for the rest ofmy day today.
And I like your idea about doingsome book club bonus episodes
for our Elevate With Gracepodcast.
That'd be good too.
Miranda (33:51):
Thank you so much, Claire.
This has been awesome and, uh,excited to be back here with
you.
Thanks so much listeners.
Hope you've enjoyed, have agreat month.
We'll see you soon.
Are you feeling overworked, undervalued, and
stuck in the daily juggle?
Knowing you are meant for more?
Welcome to Elevate With Grace,the podcast that cuts through
the noise to bring you the mostvaluable insights expert, wisdom
and real world strategies withbite-sized actionable tips.
We are here to help you Takebold steps towards success on
your terms.
No more spinning plates, justreal progress, real impact and a
(00:23):
career and life that truly workfor you.
Claire (00:26):
It's Exciting to be back for our first episode of Season
three.
it's Claire here and if you'vehad the chance to listen to our
season three pre-launch episode,you'll know that Miranda and I
have been reflecting together onwhat's changed since our first
two seasons of Elevate withGrace in 2021 and 2022.
We shared why now feels like theright moment to return to these
(00:47):
conversations with fresh energy,deeper insights, and a renewed
commitment to helping women leadwith clarity, courage, and
grace.
If you missed it, please go backand take a listen, but for now,
let's get cracking with episodeone.
For those of you who are with usin the early years in seasons
one and two we explored ways todiscover your why, cultivate
(01:08):
your career, and take smartrisks Success often meant
survival, juggling all thethings and purpose was something
that we were curious about andexploring.
But maybe not always bold enoughto chase.
this season, we are here to divedeeper into what success means
in 2025 and beyond, and waysthat we can build it on our own
terms.
Miranda (01:27):
I'm so excited to be here for our official season
three launch and pleased that weare jumping into elevate with
grace with a new lens.
And Claire so thrilled that it'syou and I back in this journey
together.
You are awesome.
As you've said, real things havechanged and it's taken time to
grapple with that.
There are things that haveremained the same and relevant
from seasons one and two.
We'll be pulling togetherhighlight from time management
(01:50):
boundary setting, habit forming,purpose building or clarifying.
In our show notes we're puttinga bit of a cheat sheet of what
season one and two were.
But there's been a lot ofchange.
To be honest, I didn't reallyknow what to discuss last year
or even in 23.
We've had a lot of grappling,adapting, learning, it really
felt like nobody had theanswers.
I looked to a lot of thoughtleaders and I think they were
(02:11):
all sort of just.
seeing how it went.
I felt like we were all justwaiting for solid ground and it
feels like we're there.
More understanding that this isgoing to go forward and not
revert back, which is giving mea lot of confidence.
It's an awesome opportunity forus to test and learn what this
new world look like forourselves.
So we get to be in the driver'sseat, which is exciting as well.
There's a nice universityexample you allow the students
(02:32):
to walk the best path throughthe grass and then you make the
concrete path.
I feel like the last couple ofyears we've been walking in the
grass seeing where we're gonnaland.
Claire, what do you think stayedthe same and what are you
excited about in terms of thegreater shifts?
Claire (02:44):
I love that analogy about walking through the grass
before we're creating concrete.
That's a really good way todescribe what we're all feeling
and if I reflect back to threeor four years ago and where we
are now.
in my mind, there are somethings that are still very
important to many people interms of work and our working
lives the criticality ofeffective leadership is even
(03:05):
more important maybe.
the need and want to feelrecognized and appreciated.
Don't think that changed in thelast few years searching for
growth and developmentopportunities, definitely an a
driver that's always been there.
And, and still now, I suppose,,as we've just spoken about, The
world has also shiftedinfluenced by, of course the
pandemic and then this rapidlychanging digitally driven world.
(03:29):
there are some different themesthat are also coming out now
that perhaps weren't therebefore.
one that we're all familiar withit gets spoken about a lot in
the press and on LinkedIn isthis tension around flexibility
and remote work and how weshould and shouldn't approach
it.
Mental health and wellbeing is amuch bigger topic that's front
of mind, both in workplaces andlife in general.
(03:50):
I saw that Gallup who does a lotof the employee surveys and data
analysis one of their reportsrecently found that employee
engagement levels in the US havedropped to a decade low of 31%
in 2024.
That's matching 2014 levels andthat the decline is particularly
(04:10):
notable among workers youngerthan 35.
Linked to this tension aroundflexibility and remote working
and hybrid working is attitudeson career progression and how
they're changing.
There was a recent survey doneby Robert Half in March, 2025
that showed for Australianbosses that three in four
employers said that officeattendance played a significant
(04:33):
role in promotions with only 13%of employers and bosses saying
that it played no impact.
of course the explosion ofgeneration ai and
democratization of technologiesin our workplaces, in our lives
is playing a much bigger partnow than probably what it has in
the past.
And all of these are reallyunderscoring a very complex and
(04:54):
evolving relationship betweenemployees and their work
environments.
What about you?
Miranda?
What have you reflected onthat's changed and what hasn't
over the last three to fouryears?
Miranda (05:03):
I think it's really interesting the unlearning.
There is a lot of unlearninghappening from what we used to
know or accept versus what wewon't.
And I feel like the Gen Zs havealmost pushed that upon the
millennials, it's like, why doyou accept this?
I don't accept this.
This is not how I wanna be as amanager or a boss.
and then there's been a lot ofpressure and so it's really
(05:24):
seeing.
Boomers and millennialspotentially falling back to type
and wanting to go back to how itwas when they were in their
twenties and this is what youshould be expecting in this
workforce.
I think there's a lot of peoplethat want things to go back the
way they were.
And then there's a lot of peoplethat are we're gonna keep
changing, we're gonna keepimproving, we're gonna keep
going forward.
I also think that workplacegrowth and development, there
has definitely been a push forit.
(05:44):
It's always been there, but Ithink what's changed within that
space is that, previously Ithink we were expected to do it
outside of work hours.
Occasionally there'd be atraining day or something, then
follow up that would happen andnow I think it's a bit more
we're gonna be doing this, butit's gonna be happening in work
hours and we're not going tomake additional time for that.
I also think in terms of thatwork life balance I think it's
always been there probably sincethe eighties or nineties when
(06:05):
work really ramped up and tookover lives.
But I think the pushback postcovid is now a demand.
We had a desire for it.
It was like, wouldn't that benice if we could find a way of
achieving that?
I think it was a personalresponsibility to make a
work-life balance as opposed toa work responsibility.
the shift feels like it's been awork responsibility.
And there's been obviously somelegislation recently about
(06:26):
switching off at seven o'clockfor a big portion community to
make sure that we do have someof that work life balance, When
I think of a new world of workand what's changed, what I'm
loving most is that in many waysbeing invited to reimagine what
the future of work could be.
optimistically, I feel that thisis a great time, to test and
learn within a workplace and.
I think that really is happeningat all levels there's a bit of a
(06:46):
pushback both from managementand from.
All different levels of work tothe coordinators are saying this
is what I expect.
And I think the playback to thatis how are you gonna help make
that happen?
And obviously that depends onyour workplace, but there is a
lot more thinking andconversation happening at all
ages about how we are going tobring this workplace to life.
and I'm excited that you and Iare having this conversation and
that our podcast will befocusing on this as well the
(07:07):
rise of hybrid work has reallybrought a lot of freedoms to the
workplace, but it's caused anincredible amount of friction
particularly your seniorleaders, there is a, a level of
micromanagement which feels likeit's come back a bit.
We want know that our people areworking and we don't believe
that we're getting sometimesthat same level of commitment or
dedication they're work fromhome.
experience and the experienceI've seen around me is that
(07:29):
actually the people are tend tobe a little bit more productive
when they're working from home,but with a balance some days in
the office and some days fromhome.
There's been a little bit more.
Pressure on middle managementand it has looked like a far
less attractive job for youngergenerations.
And I think collectively, thatgeneration come out and said,
it's gonna look like this, I'mnot sure I want it.
I might get a bit more into gigeconomy or something else.
(07:50):
I did a course in 2024 withInventium, focused around hybrid
working and how to findimprovements they did a full
trends briefing.
last year to go through what arethe global trends that we're
seeing.
And a big one was that middlemanagers were facing that crunch
and that there needed to be moresupport and awareness around it.
inventing are doing a great jobin terms of bringing that
awareness to life andchallenging workplaces
(08:10):
Atlassian's done a similar,piece over the last 12 months.
The great part of hybrid work,is a freedom to design a better
week.
Design a week that makes sensefrom a workplace productivity
point of view, but also a lifeproductivity point of view.
I start very early I havereclaimed family time as a big
part of that, which has beenawesome.
Something that I slipped back toover this time of change.
Was one I hadn't experienced fora while but it was, you know, a
(08:32):
lot of negative talk.
I was getting very frustratedwith myself that I wasn't having
a lot of great behaviors that Iwas I guess just a bit exhausted
with it all.
And couldn't come up with someof this thought leadership that
you and I are focusing on.
I was really just a bit lost inthe weeds.
I was not giving myself graceand positive self-talk.
So I brought back those 5:00 AMsaver habits I speak about in.
One of our earlier podcastsreally thinking about that
(08:53):
silence, affirmation, vision,exercise, and writing.
If I don't get to it, I'm okaywith it, but I do make sure that
I'm doing that a couple of timesa week?
What are those affirmations ofwhat you are doing right?
gratefulness is something weneed to continue to think about.
How I've communicated and, myexpectations for the workforce
have also changed, I touched onthose in our introduction
episode.
communication and learning tocommunicate in this new world is
(09:13):
a skill that we are all going tohave to be, retrained on in a
really, A big way.
I don't think anybody is ahundred percent in their
communication.
now that our world is a lot ofnon-verbal, there's a lot of
email or teams communications.
uh, there's a lot of videoconferencing
Claire (09:27):
and I think one of the challenges that we find around
communication is there's just somuch noise in the press because
it's just such.
Great click bait I saw anarticle recently that remember,
I think it was a Fortunearticle.
83% of Gen Zs admit to watchingNetflix or watching streaming
services during the workday.
And we're just battling it outin the media and so drawn in a
(09:50):
tug of war from side to side,you've pointed out around the
ways that you like to work, andthat's the whole concept of this
podcast around success on ourterms What does success mean to
me?
What does success mean to you?
And what does and doesn'tencourage productivity.and I
think it's really complexbecause every workplace is
different.
There's lots of differentperformance and behavior issues.
(10:11):
As you said, many of us arestruggling.
With what do we want now, andwhat does life look like and do
I want a traditional leadershipjourney or do I want more of a
portfolio career?
It feels like the options areendless and so it's a tricky,
and as you mentioned at somepoints, an exhausting.
Exercise to try to navigatethat.
I like how you, Reflected alittle bit on some of those
(10:32):
challenges that we had in ourearlier seasons.
like that you've brought the5:00 AM back and again you were
such a great advocate of the5:00 AM club and I just couldn't
get there.
But having said that, though,you talk about having some time
in the morning to do things likeexercise and write and do daily
pages and reflect is soessential to keep our energy
(10:55):
levels up.
For I have a much biggerappreciation for how I need to
have a very different mindset onmy response to the rapidly and
constantly changing environmentsthat we live in, in order to
stay energized, hopeful on thefuture keep focus.
On me being and values led.
you mentioned unlearning beforeand I'm finding that I'm having
(11:17):
to do a lot of unlearning fromall of the unconscious
conditioning over the last 20plus years over my life and my
leadership journey.
I try to connect to what's goingon now and what do we want our
future to be?
I think a big focus on beingcurious and open-minded and
connecting much more deeply withour colleagues, our friends, our
(11:38):
communities.
Curiosity and connection are areal cornerstone for me in terms
of the fundamentals ofcommunicating in this workplace
2.0, this life 2.0, I think ourleadership styles need to be
evolving and be more flexibleand open, and the skills of
active listening, braveconversations, of that we talked
about in previous seasons, Ithink it's about.
(12:00):
Responding in an agile way.
moving away from and reallybeing thoughtful about our
responses, and being agile abouthow we respond.
We need to approach things andflex our style in a lot of
different ways, because thediversity of who's in the
workplace and what we all want,from that has really changed a
(12:21):
and and I think I mentioned inour episode that for the first
time ever in history, in someworkplaces there's five
generations working in the sameworkplace, and that's huge.
In terms of what people want andneed.
Respect and kindness anddiversity, and especially with
that overlay of mental healthand wellbeing being a focus.
I did see, I think it was HarrisPoll, and Express Employment
(12:43):
Professionals released a surveyin March, 2025 saying that in
the US there's been a rise inworkplace toxicity, and that 30%
of US employees are seeking outnew jobs.
Because of confrontationalbehavior among coworkers, issues
such as unprofessionalcommunication and exclusion.
and so everyone demanding a fairand inclusive and thoughtful
(13:07):
workplace is, key for us to all.
Contribute to as you saidmanager struggle at the moment.
Because it's really hard to holdthat place between your staff
and the senior leadership.
But for all of us, inclusive andkind workplaces is really on a
lot of people's minds.
We are bombarded with alldifferent ways that people are
communicating with us there's somany channels.
(13:29):
I feel like we almost have to bea cyborg in terms of navigating
through emails and team chatsand text messages and WhatsApp
groups.
I like to talk about it ascommunication congestion.
There's so many different waysthat people can get in touch
with each other and so much dataflying about so many articles,
flying about so much stuff onsocial media, trying to draw our
attention towards so manydifferent priorities that I
(13:52):
think in terms of effectivecommunication, what you've
spoken about.
Even if it's a couple of times aweek in the morning, if you can
get up at 5:00 AM perhaps a bitlater for some of us, being able
to really step away from thatnoise and reflect on what our
gut's telling us, what webelieve, we think we need, being
values led and purpose led so wecan really take the bold action
(14:14):
that we need to for happy,successful, hopeful workplaces
and lives in this year andbeyond.
you've got a couple of favoritebooks on this topic so I'd like
to hear a little bit more aboutthat.
Miranda (14:25):
Absolutely.
But before we jump into it,resonated so much with what you
were saying on noise and theoverwhelm of noise.
And we know that overwhelm anddistraction are just one of the
worst things we can do foractual productivity.
Creativity.
And the way you were sayingthat, I was like, you know what?
There's definitely a disciplineonly check emails at nine 11 and
three o'clock.
Trying to really cordon off timeto do those emails, to take in
(14:46):
that noise, to mute thosenotifications because people can
reach you anytime I've gotpeople in the US and you'll
easily just them a team's noteand they'll pick it up and it's
11 o'clock for them at night.
so now I'm going on emails andI'm setting the delay so that
they don't see it until the nextday.
Or I've got a big note at thetop, don't look at this until
tomorrow.
Take control back from theirnoise and make sure that we are
commanding our time and we aredominating what's gonna keep
(15:09):
engaged, both on our personaland our professional lives.
I think that's a great successmetrics.
I am excited to explore that onefurther then it took everything
not to jump in when you weretalking about that choice and
how choice makes it so hard notto, get just lost in that missed
decision.
there's a beautiful Trevor Noahinterview with Simon Sinek and
he was talking about howcommunity, we just feel so lost
(15:30):
and the more choice we have.
That comes with income, thatcomes with where to live, the
less we connect with our and,even the workplace, things get a
little bit challenging and, oneof my very quick options is I.
can go and find another job.
I was so fascinated by thatworkplace toxicity statistic
you'd think it'd be different.
people are happier working inthese hybrid environments.
They're happier, less commute Soit's find it really fascinating.
(15:52):
I don't think it's completelyresolved.
How are we gonna get the best.
of our culture and also givepeople the beautiful, hybrid
space where they get that theywork at because whew, I don't
think I'd wanna give thatfreedom up, I really do wanna
have a workplace that, valuesempathy and kindness.
I don't think there's one personout there that doesn't need to
do some training, if I canrecommend a bit of reading,
super communicators, came out,early and Charles Duhe, he could
(16:15):
not have been better timed withit he's got a bit of a
psychological organizationalbehavior bend like your, um,
Brene Browns and your Adamgrads.
He's got another book Smarter,faster, better.
I'm curious how much of that nowin this new world.
So I might go back and have abit of a read this On, super
communicators really, looks atthose virtual communications and
calls'em out for being tootransactional that we've lost
(16:36):
the nuance of nonverbal cuesbecause we're not having that
small talk.
We're not finding those momentsof connection, to connect us
like we're a tribe.
Generally what we found is thatif people can find a point of
connection, then have aconversation about something
that's divergent.
What we are getting is, I needthis deadline, I've got this
thing.
Your priorities aren't mypriorities, and this is the
challenge, we haven't connectedon anything.
(16:57):
So, it just feels like it'sconstantly grading and you're
constantly demanding withouttaking any energy to connect
with me, get to get know me.
And it's a subconscious thing.
Honestly, I do not consciouslythink, have I connected with
this person and do they valueme?
but I do know I feel it andcertain people can ask something
of me and I'm there and otherpeople can ask it of me and I'm
frustrated the messaging hasn'tnecessarily changed.
So Duhigee, in this book, heactually recommends that we've
(17:19):
Become explicit in how wecommunicate make sure that it's
conscious.
We don't just allow what'shappened before.
You may have sent that email in2018 and it would've been
completely fine.
It's not completely fine in2025.
And so we have to almost relearnhow to be overly empathetic.
I really understand that you'regoing through that challenge.
Can I get five minutes with youon teams and we can discuss what
(17:39):
those priorities are.
but also that we understand whatyou've got on so I can
reprioritize some other thingsaround it.
And me as the employee going,don't you know how busy I am?
How dare you?
And I get it.
You know, because I feel it.
There's some great examples outthere the CIA.
One that he puts in his book isreally interesting in terms of
that active listening and thatkindness, and how it converts
from a conversation to having agreat relationship with this
(18:01):
person that you're trying toconvince to be a spy to finding
those common connections andthose common points of and
relationship they're actuallynow motivated to help you
because it's gonna help them.
It was fascinating.
It took him, Four or five goers,he thought he'd failed before he
was able to actually get thatright connection.
And it's not just being able tohave a great chat and whatever,
it's obviously a deeper level.
also a really good one, um,Netflix there as well, sent out
(18:24):
a communication that just lackedempathy, and actually caused,
big up arisal in Netflix and amassive change.
So now there is.
Explicit steps in place in theirworkplace to ensure empathy,
active listening and kindnesspart of their training modules
that everyone has to achieve,that everybody is held to
account for.
So Workplace 2.0, I think it'sbecome more explicit It's not
just what you do, it's not justthat you're a high achiever.
(18:46):
It's how you're doing it, howyou're showing up for others is
almost getting a 50 50 measurein terms of importance for your
performance.
And I think we'll start to see alot more of that because the
impact of your behavior, the 31%who don't wanna be in a
workplace anymore is massive.
And it's, too expensive, it'stoo hard.
So even if you are performing,if you pull down a whole nother
group because there's lost fouremployees there's gonna be an
issue.
(19:07):
More so I think than maybe weheld people to account before.
He also explicitly naming whattype of conversation that we're
having.
So I need to have a conversationthat's going to be a bit
emotional.
I need to have a conversationthat's going to be very
practical.
And I appreciate there's a lotof things going on.
So how can I frame that for youWhich is uncomfortable but I'm
interested to try it.
And yeah, just couldn't enoughhow many times he said explicit
(19:29):
your actions.
throughout this book.
Then the, the other one, I guessjust around that hybrid
workplace is, that, there hasbeen a lot of conversation in
the media about whether it'sgood, is it to blame for this
economic crisis that we're goingthrough?
Are people as productive?
I think there's been quite adecent amount of study in the
other way saying, no, it is.
So there is a clickbait to it.
But I think if we look at,macroeconomics, are going
(19:51):
through a period of, financialchallenge.
Workplaces are down.
I don't blame hybrid work forit.
I actually think it's a muchbigger issue than, an office
work environment.
But I think in the moment in2023 and 2024, when we are going
through it and workplaces arelooking at their balance sheets
and the main thing that'schanged is hybrid work.
I do think it got the blame forit.
and to put that in perspective,we haven't had a GDP of 0.03,
(20:15):
which is where we got Septemberlast year, since the nineties.
So most people in the workplace.
Have never lived through aneconomic hardship.
They've never lived through notgetting a promotion, not getting
a pay rise for, highperformance, having, workplace
budgets cut, having culturebudgets cut, I think they're
taking it out on each other alittle bit there as well.
So do think that it's not justhybrid work that has caused
(20:36):
that.
There is a lot of benefits toit.
Over 50% of Australian workers,are splitting time between home
and office.
It is a real thing and.
Don't know if we can undo that.
I think it's going to be acontinuation for our future, do
think we need to learn to workwith it and to also look at
those other factors it is verynormal globally for us to go up
and down in terms of growth likewe are, I think, going through
(20:58):
what is a normal period insociety, Covid definitely helped
cause it, we will also go intogrowth again, so it's a short
term pain, hopefully.
Claire (21:05):
I think it's human nature.
You to try to find somethingquick to blame it on, like
hybrid work.
I think you'll make a reallyexcellent point there.
People are experiencingsignificant cost of living
changes.
Like the interest rates havebeen up high for the first time
in 20 years.
Sure.
Maybe.
Older millennials were cominginto the workplace as we had the
global financial crisis.
(21:26):
But really Australia was quiteprotected from that, Whereas now
it's blowing my mind that if Iwanted to have a coffee in the
city, it's$6 for a coffee andthe expense of living now and
conversations around pricing,younger people out of the
housing market and all of thosestresses as well as businesses
being under pressure for as yousaid, the productivity metric
(21:49):
and, where we're at as a countryfrom the productivity growth.
But also individually we'rehurting a fair bit over the last
few years, because of the risinginterest rates and the inflation
and things like that.
So yeah the theme of thisconversation I think is it's
complex I have to get supercommunicators and read it.
You've talked to me about it afew times, you've really enticed
(22:10):
me.
The last thing we wanted totouch on in this episode is
about how we reframe and embracechange in the context of
everything that we're talkingabout.
There's so much going onholistically both in our lives
and our workplace, and it'sshifting and flexing and moving
all the time.
How do we make sure that wedon't continue to be exhausted
(22:31):
from it?
How do we make sure that we arelooking forward to, as you said,
experimenting with it, lookingfor the enjoyment of this new
world that we can make work forus at a whole of life level and
see it as a real opportunity tomove forward and not go back to
the way things were or know, howdo we look at it with a hopeful
perspective, trust in the futureand bring a positive energy
(22:54):
force to it.
That's not, as I mentioned inour pre teaser e an easy thing
for us to do as humans.
So we are biologicallyprogrammed to seek safety and to
feel safe and.
This relentlessly changing pacecoupled with the information
overload and the click bait andall that it's not easy to change
the way that we think aboutchange but we absolutely need
(23:16):
to.
Right?
And I, am.
thinking quite deeply about howwe can do that.
We really need to find a way tofall in love with the process of
discovery and learning andconsciously telling ourselves on
the daily that we will be okayif we don't know what the
outcome will be.
We want certainty, like it'shuman nature.
And so learning to build musclesaround it's okay that we don't
(23:41):
know what we don't know andactually gives us a little bit
of permission to experiment andlearn and discover.
And I think, trying to frameourselves into that way of
enjoying change, it's about.
Choosing playfulness as we goabout our lives as well and I
guess giving ourselves abreather from time to time about
this needing to search forpurpose and the need to, meet
(24:02):
external markers of whatconstitutes success.
This need to look for quick waysand quick wins to make money and
to have a fast career path.
Everything still requiresresilience and hard work and,
it's tricky to find that right.
Balance.
I can't remember where I firstheard this concept, but it
(24:23):
really resonated with me Andit's the concept of eustress and
distress and it's two verydifferent types of stress and
stress responses.
And so eustress is consideredpositive stress and it's often
associated with motivation andexcitement.
While distress is obviouslynegative stress, which can lead
to physical and mental strain.
(24:43):
Then you've got avoidance ofstress altogether.
And in between is this conceptof eustress, which is where
you're giving yourself enoughstress that makes you feel
motivated and thrive.
And I think that's where we'retrying to look at in terms of
finding that balance of gettinga great energy source and energy
from our daily lives that fuelsus and gives the hopefulness
(25:04):
that we're looking for and thewillingness to maybe take risks,
and maybe not look so much fortransformational change anymore.
It's more about incrementaldaily change and test and learn
and.
Those agile strategies are muchmore helpful, I think in 20, 25
and beyond than I need totransform my life and I need to
find my massive purpose.
(25:24):
It's much more about trial anderror, like you said, about
walking through the grass andenjoying the grass before you.
Find the concrete path and evenif you find the concrete path,
maybe you should go back towandering along the grass every
now and then.
I don't think it's as linearanymore.
And I think there'sopportunities in that.
A friend of, a friend of mine,Andrea Clark.
She just released a new bookcalled Adapt.
(25:46):
And, it's a great read.
It's a simple read and it talksa lot about adapting in this
changing world.
her model that she focuses on isgot four key steps around
adapting effectively to change.
And it's being aware andstepping into and leaning into
what's changing around Acceptingthat it's changing.
Activating and optimism aboutthat change and then releasing
(26:09):
what's holding us back.
So I think we're not the onlyones that are wanting to talk
about this and see a hopefullens on it and how we can adapt
as humans and leaders in thisenvironment.
But yeah, I thought I'd mention.
That book
Miranda (26:20):
fantastic.
No, it sounds like a great bookand I can't wait to check it
out.
It's exactly what I think we'reall looking for, which is how do
you adapt to this and what arewe thinking about?
So a little bonus episode thatwe should be looking at for that
book.
And, super communicated.
Look, I found it reallyinteresting'cause I am a huge
fan of change.
I on change.
I've always been like, yeah,what's that next challenge?
(26:40):
What's that next thing thatwe're gonna take on?
I don't want a role that's thesame every day.
I wanna be able to, keepadapting to that change and keep
changing.
And so me, I found it reallyinteresting that I did not adapt
very well over the last twoyears.
Like I was really a bit lost inthe weeds and I think it was
because there was no guarantee,there was a lot of media saying,
we're gonna go back to the wayit was.
There's no direction to wherethe change is going.
(27:03):
I think at all points in time,when the internet was rising, we
knew that things were going tobe better.
We knew that productivity wasgoing to be enhanced.
So there was a goal, and somepeople adapted it really
quickly, and some people didn't.
But eventually we all got there.
The adopters right through tothe laggards and we do all
eventually get there in terms ofthis change.
But in this area, I think theearly adopters were like, why
(27:23):
are we adopting, not quite surewhere we're going.
And I was looking around forthose thought leaders to give me
that inspiration and direction.
I feel like it's coming out now.
We're seeing these books comingout in 25 that we finally go,
oh, actually I can see thatlight at the horizon.
Let's go and one of the reallyexciting things, I think as part
of that is ai.
And the potential of ai.
There's a lot of fear around AIand, can't wait to explore that
(27:44):
with you in future episodes ofthe pros and the cons and the,
the opportunities and, and someof the maybe pitfalls.
But I think that's probably onearea that's sort of pulled me
out of this to go, hang on, thisis something I can control.
I need to learn as much as I canabout this.
And I have over the last 12months soaked in as much,
LinkedIn learning and websitesand newsletters and chat, GPT
and co-pilot training and Canvatraining, just to try and
(28:06):
understand what it can do, whatit means.
What are the potential of these,um, these tools that are coming
out there?
So I think that's prettyexciting, and I can honestly
tell you that the, that werethere 12 months ago to the tools
that are there today, aresignificantly different.
So we all feel like we've missedthe boat already or that we
don't really understand thisthing.
And honestly it is changingevery day.
(28:28):
It is the grass that we arewalking through to see how we
make that path.
That is our theme fortodayBefore I think just having
the conversation and notnecessarily knowing what the end
goal is, but knowing that wewant things to improve, I think
we can reset that expectation asthat is our goal.
How do we improve?
How do we just find better waysof living?
How do we find better ways ofworking?
And what are some of the toolsthat can get there?
We might not know what the endgame is.
(28:48):
But I think that's enough of arudder or a vision to get me, on
board and getting back intothose habits and not feeling so
tired all the time because thateustress, I have not heard of it
in that way, but I've certainlyunderstand, the idea of distress
versus eustress and I'm ahundred percent there.
there's a lot of noise, there'sa lot of distress, there's a lot
of.
Fear and, risk, adversebehavior.
(29:09):
I don't really know how tofunction.
I've really struggled in thatspace, eustress, in the energy,
in the, you've gotta get 20things done in a day, and it's
got like lots of momentum.
I'm there, I'm ready.
That's the kind of change that Ican thrive in.
that's what I guess I've learnedfor myself is that I need to get
myself out of those reallynegative environments.
Turn off the noise.
Don't watch the news.
Try and avoid as much click baitas I can, because once I go down
(29:31):
and spiral into that space, Ifind it incredibly hard to then
go, well, what, what am I doingwith all of this?
Oh my goodness, I'm missingthese opportunities.
I've got fomo.
I dunno which way to turn.
What it has done is forced me toreally prioritize what's
important to me.
Is it Diary of a CEO, it'ssomebody who speaks about that
idea of a fisherman who wants tohave a quality of life where he
works from seven in the morningto two in the afternoon so he
(29:53):
can come home, spend time withhis wife and kids, and have that
great family time.
And then there's this, well whydon't you wanna own multiple
franchises and have multipleboats'cause once you make lots
of money, you'll be able to havethe time to do that in 10 years
time.
And that real shift between,hang on.
can maybe have a good work lifebalance and I can have some
quality of life now.
I don't have to just keepchurning to eventually get it
(30:16):
when I retire has been a reallyimportant shift.
I have been trying actively tohave more small talk.
I used to think small talk wasnot a good thing.
and having learned thatconnectivity is so important and
really thinking about how I showup for my teammates with
curiosity and empathy, and I dotake that time to have that
small talk as opposed tothinking, that's wasting my time
(30:37):
and I should be doing somethingmore productive has been a bit
of a game changer in terms ofmaking sure that I really
connect with the people in myenvironment.
You know, how are you going?
How are you feeling?
What's going on with your world?
And then we can get to the work.
I've also given myself morebalance.
I think I've spoken to thatenough, broadening my community.
I have actively sought outcommunity, whether it's in my
neighborhood.
I've volunteered at the school.
(30:58):
I've thought about more hobbiesand tried to connect with people
within my hobby.
I've tried things out like parkrun.
Unfortunately it wasn't for me,but I'm gonna keep trying
different things until I findsomething more fitness to get
excited about again.
I've taken more reading likeback, things that I really
enjoyed when I was in my earlytwenties fantasy fiction.
Just a bit more of that as wellas the reading for learning, the
reading to know, the reallyimportant books.
(31:19):
Claire, you and I recently readJuice as part of our.
Book club.
That was an impactful book.
That was a heavy book.
I definitely need it.
I still think about it today,but I also, read a bit of Tracy
Harding and just escape realityfor a minute as well.
so certainly looking at thatand, reconsidering what I wanna
achieve in the next five yearsand what that balance looks
like.
Which I think is a perfect wayto finish this episode off with
an action challenge because I'dlove that kind of thinking to go
(31:41):
to all of our beautifullisteners.
Think about what's changed andwhat hasn't for you over the
last couple of years.
Write it down.
In fact, if you're happy toshare it, we'd love to read it.
And we certainly looked forwardto going through maybe some of
those comments in our nextepisode.
We'd love to see,, what haveresonated from what we shared
and what you thought wascompletely crazy.
Then really would love to thinkabout, what are the
opportunities that you can takecontrol of in this new world of
work are you learning some AItools?
(32:03):
Are you having firmconversations about hybrid can
help suit you?
Are you switching off from workafter seven o'clock?
What are those things that youare doing?
So we'd love to hear it and abit more of an action challenge
for us to move into for the nextepisode.
Claire (32:15):
I, I just love all your insights.
I know that, um, As per usual,we try to keep our episodes
tight, but we get so excitedabout the content, so I am going
to leave it at the actionchallenge.
I think it's a great actionchallenge.
I'm looking forward to divinginto that for our next episode,
particularly because.
For the next episode, we'll beexploring what redefining
(32:36):
success looks like Given all ofthe context of work and life as
it is we speak a lot aboutsuccess on our own terms, and
how to create it.
And so I think that relooking atsome of the concepts on how we
can do that in this newworkplace, 2.0 and our new lives
and beyond.
We'll be exploring that inepisode two next month we can't
(32:56):
wait for you to join us forthat.
We've put all the curatedcontent that we've mentioned
today in the podcast episodenotes.
So please check that out and dipinto anything that in.
Advise you to take smallactionable steps to create
success on your own terms Formore inspiration, please visit
our socials on Insta, Facebookor LinkedIn.
(33:17):
We'd love to hear from you.
drop us a note in one of oursocials channels or email us at
Elevate with Grace.
At gmail.com Please, please likeand subscribe this podcast.
That's how we get out there tomore people.
And please tell your friendsabout us.
If you like us, please don'ttell them anything if you didn't
like it., And thanks so much forlistening.
Thank you, Miranda.
(33:38):
Always learn so much when I'mtalking to you, so I appreciate
it.
I feel uplifted for the rest ofmy day today.
And I like your idea about doingsome book club bonus episodes
for our Elevate With Gracepodcast.
That'd be good too.
Miranda (33:51):
Thank you so much, Claire.
This has been awesome and, uh,excited to be back here with
you.
Thanks so much listeners.
Hope you've enjoyed, have agreat month.
We'll see you soon.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com