A Journey of Fighting Human Trafficking with Dennis and Bobbie Mark - Ep. 85

Join us for an inspiring conversation with Dennis and Bobbie Mark, founders of Redeemed Ministries and true pioneers in the anti-trafficking movement. After 19 years of dedicated service, they share their journey from strip club outreach to opening one of Texas's first residential homes for sex trafficking survivors. Dennis and Bobbie discuss the evolution of trauma-informed care, the challenges of building programs without precedent, and how their work has influenced law enforcement approaches to supporting victims

Their story reveals the heart behind the statistics and demonstrates how commitment to serving the most vulnerable can create lasting change. This episode offers valuable insights for anyone interested in understanding the complexities of anti-trafficking work and the power of restoration.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, hey everyone, Welcome to the Elijah Rising
podcast.
We have some really, reallyspecial guests today Dennis and
Bobby Mark of Redeem Ministries.
I call you guys the OGs becausey'all have really pioneered in
this field and I wanted to reada little bit of your bio.

(00:20):
Dennis's is too long, like hisis literally two pages so
throughout the episode you'llget glimpses of what all he's
done but bobby and has been withredeemed for 19 years.
I guess both of you guys havebeen with redeemed for 19 years.
Um, you guys started asoutreach volunteers in 2006.

(00:41):
Um, in 2010, you and your ahandful of amazing volunteers
stepped up to open the firstresidential home for survivors
of sex trafficking in Texas.
Wow, Since then, Bobbi has beenhumbled beyond measure, working
with incredibly strong womenwho walk through the doors of
the Sparrow House and those whoare living independently.

(01:03):
She has learned how to speakmore gently, listen more
intently and love more fiercely.
While the work is hard and thedays are often long, she
wouldn't change a thing and willforever be happy.
She said yes to going on.
That first outreach Guys,welcome to the podcast, and
we're just going to jump rightin.
You know, 20 years ago, whatwas it Like?

(01:26):
What was the moment where youwere like I feel like this is
something we need to dedicateour life to, you know.
Addressing.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I think David, for us it really was.
I always jokely tell people wewere at the wrong place at the
wrong time and really gotambushed us.
I was actually on a missiontrip, completely unrelated to
human trafficking.
I was in Turkey with one of ourpastors of our church who
actually was a board member ofRedeemed, and at that place I
was actually exposed to humantrafficking.

(01:59):
It really before it even reallyhad a name, I think, and so was
there, heard about it, saw itwith my own two eyes, came back
from that mission trip and theyhad recruited us.
They were like, hey, we're doingoutreach work in strip clubs
and we're an all-male volunteerteam and for some reason people

(02:19):
don't want to give us money togo on a trip, and so maybe if we
had a married couple it'd bemore legitimate, you know.
And so we just talked to bobbyabout this maybe she would like
to do this and I'm like, no,there's, I don't even know how
to start this conversation withher.
No, uh.
But we ended up having theconversation and, um, to make a
very long story short, uh, onenight we were out.

(02:41):
Uh, we had tried to recruitanother couple to do this work
and that fell through and so wewent out that night with this
board member and went to one ofthe strip clubs and that's where
Bobby got hooked that night.
It took me a little bit longer.

(03:01):
Yeah, that first night wasreally on her.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
So what was it for you that really opened your eyes
?

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Well, I think I was 42, and I had never stepped foot
in a strip club.
I was raised in a reallyconservative Christian home and
I was pretty terrified.
To be honest, I'd never steppedfoot in a strip club in my life
.
I walked through the doors ofthat place and did not know what
to expect and we sat down at atable.

(03:30):
The waitress immediately saidto the board member who was a
regular.
She said there's this girl Ineed you to meet.
And she brought this18-year-old girl to us and she
said she's pregnant.
And this young lady sat down andjust started talking and I

(03:51):
don't know what came over meother than the Holy Spirit, but
I just started asking herquestions.
I said you know, how far alongare you?
How long are you going tocontinue dancing?
And we just engaged in thisconversation.
That went on for about twohours and I just got to know her
and ask her questions about herlife.

(04:12):
And while I was terrified tostep foot in that place after
two or three hours, I didn'twant to leave and that's when I
knew that this was something Ihad to do, and so we just kept
going back for the next year anda half, two or three nights a

(04:33):
week, we would step foot in thatplace and meet young women
right where they were and talkto them about what they were
experiencing at that moment intheir life.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, it's crazy now, because when you share that
it's kind of like working inthis space.
We do outreach in the strip andit's just kind of like normal
now but back then, like who wasdoing that?

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, at that time we were the only ones that we saw
in the clubs.
And after a year and a halfthere were a couple of other
groups that started doingoutreach and we knew then about
trafficking, about what wasgoing on in the strip clubs in
the brothels on the streets ofHouston, and because there were

(05:31):
other groups that were cominginto the clubs, going into the
dressing rooms, that's when weknew that God was releasing us
from the clubs and we were ableto leave that location, that
specific outreach, and move intothe spas and the brothels of
Houston.
So yes, but in that very momentwe were probably some of the

(05:51):
only ones, we were the pioneersin that moment.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, and so like what was the learning curve?
Like you know, cause now theyhave all types of books and
schools, even I know there'scollege courses offered on, you
know, trafficking, and but likewhere, how are you guys learning
?

Speaker 2 (06:10):
well, it was shocking that if you did a google search
on this topic back in 2006, youmight get a page of information
.
It just wasn't there.
In 2008, I traveled to vienna,austria, for the United Nations
Global Initiative to FightTrafficking, and that's where,
for me, the light bulbs went offto the bigger issue that was
going on.

(06:30):
While we were just focusing oncommercial sex and what was
happening in Houston, we reallygot to see the global stuff that
was happening, both labor, sexand all these different things,
and so it was just really goingout and looking what other
countries were doing at the time, because there really wasn't a
whole lot of movement in theUnited States.
The laws were still brand new,law enforcement was still trying

(06:52):
to figure out what it all was,and so we just had to kind of
just play by ear.
It was literally like the oldsaying flying an airplane while
building an airplane yeah,flying an airplane while
building an airplane, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
So what was, I guess?
What compelled you guys to makethat leap into having the
residential home?
Or was it kind of like agradual thing of just providing
services?

Speaker 3 (07:24):
So what happened for us was we began seeing needs and
filling the needs that we sawthe gaps that needed to be
filled.
We were doing the strip cluboutreach from 2006 until
sometime mid-2008.
We transitioned to doingoutreach to the spas and the
brothels in Houston in 2008.
We continued that untilprobably well, we continued that

(07:46):
through like 13, 14, 2013, 14.
But in 2009, we received a callfrom Homeland Security and they
said we have a 17-year-old sextrafficking victim and she needs
someplace to land.
We went back and forth becausethere was no place for her and
we said okay, you know, we'lltake her in our home.

(08:10):
They had no idea what to dowith her, so they put her in a
hotel and, of course, shedisappeared.
And then, you know, a few weekslater, we get another call and
they had an adult woman who wasa labor trafficking victim.
So she ended up coming into ourhome, our personal home,
because there was no place toput her.
She stayed with us a few monthsand it was, you know, greatly

(08:34):
successful and then, as soon asyou know, we helped her get into
an apartment.
Weeks after that, we getanother call there's another 17
year old who needs a place.
We brought her into our home andwhile we were getting to know
her, we realized this childneeds other people who have

(08:54):
experienced what she'sexperienced, and we knew she
needed to be able to heal withpeople like her, and that's.
We had no idea what traumainformed care was.
We really had no idea whattrauma-informed care was.
We really had no idea whattrauma was.
You know, we were just two nicepeople who knew that this kid
needed help and needed healing.
And we had an 18-year-olddaughter, and she was 17, about

(09:16):
to turn 18, and we just thought,oh, this will be great, but
they were on totally differentends of the spectrum, right and
so.
But we knew she needs other,you know, women who've
experienced what she'sexperienced, and so we literally
were just filling the gaps aswe saw that they needed to be
filled.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, and were there any other people that you were
in contact with that wererunning this type of, you know
home for women who've come outof trafficking?

Speaker 3 (09:44):
No, we couldn't find anybody to learn from.
We did not know what the heckwe were doing.
We searched.
We couldn't find any otherhomes for trafficking survivors.
We finally discovered thatthere was one home in Atlanta,
georgia, for minors that weresex trafficking survivors, and

(10:05):
there was a woman here who wasworking with that home and she
was literally about to go to atraining.
And so she went to the trainingand she brought back
information and we were like,okay, we can learn from you and
everything she brought back.
We gleaned that knowledge andtried to implement it, as we

(10:25):
said, okay, we're going to, youknow we can do this, but it was,
you know, worlds of difference,you know, in what you might do
with a child and what we wereconsidering doing with adults.
You know, but we learned whatwe could.
And then, when it was time to,you know, bring an adult woman
into the house, you know we werewoman into the house.
You know we were just lost.

(10:46):
Yeah, because we had nobody tolearn from, and so we just
learned as we went.
And when we opened the doors ofour safe house on october 10th,
2010, we had one page with 11numbers, with 11 rules you know,
11 rules, the guidebook, andnow, 15 years later, we have you
know 11 rules.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
That was the guidebook.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
And now, 15 years later, we have, you know, this
handbook Like 43 pages front andback.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, you know, again , I think that's what's.
You know.
We're talking about the time ofwhat 20 years looks like, right
, and I think we've learned somuch from so many different
sciences about trauma, right,and you figure, a lot of what we
learned about PTSD comes fromthe combat veterans, of people
that experienced combat inAfghanistan and Iraq, and so we

(11:30):
really didn't know a lot aboutthat, and then that opened the
door for how trauma affects asexual assault survivor, and so
a lot of the things that werelearned by other means fed over
into the stuff that we werelearning, we're needing to learn
, because we were seeingbehaviors that we didn't really
understand.
You know, like the whole ideawas, oh, we just get her off the
street, she'll be fine, it'llbe good.

(11:52):
It'll be kumbaya moments A nice,warm bed for her and everybody
will be happy.
And that's not the case.
These women were very angry,and understandably so, and not
until you understand the fullconcept of what trauma looks
like can you help them, right,that's the.
I think that was a missingpiece for us, especially in

(12:12):
early stages.
We, we were just, you know, likeI always used to joke about how
, like the nasa program, right,the whole reason that the
mercury program that shot anastronaut in space just to see
if you'd come back alive, right,and for the first six months
bobby was in the house byherself with this woman, and
just to see if bobby wouldsurvive.

(12:33):
Would she come back after sixmonths to be alive after that?
Right, yeah, and then weexpanded it and then I went into
the house with her and so wethen had women, and there was
two of us in there and seen howdoes that work?
And it was just we grew andadapted to the things that we
learned, the things that weexperienced, the things that we

(12:54):
saw, the women themselveshelping us grow, helping us
understand where they're comingfrom.
So it was just an ongoingprocess for us, just adapting to
the environment we were in.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, and I imagine trauma, informed care wasn't
like a big word that you heardoften, right?
So you know what was.
I guess.
What was that?
What was that learning processlike?
You hinted at it a little bitbut did you feel like God kind
of leading you and giving youhints along the way?
You know what was.

(13:23):
What was that process of likereally going from?
Like the way you know what wasthat process of like really
going from?
Like the 11, you know hairguidelines to like the handbook
of like.
Here's how this is what we'velearned.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Well, what's interesting is, in 2013, we went
to a conference and learnedabout trauma.
We still didn't hear this tagword, trauma-informed care, but
we just learned about trauma andwe started going whoa, that's

(13:56):
familiar.
That's familiar.
That behavior looks familiar.
That behavior looks familiar.
And we heard about a woman bythe name of Bonnie Martin, and
so we invited her to come justto teach us.
And we brought her here and wesaid this is what we're doing,
and this is what we're doing,and this is what we're doing.
And she said you guys are doingthis and this and this.

(14:18):
And she used all these wordsthat we'd never heard before.
And she said you're doing allof these things.
You just don't know the rightwords for them, but you're
providing trauma informed careand you're doing a really good
job of it.
You just need to learn theright words for it.
You know, and you're providingthese this really great program,

(14:40):
but you know, you just need tolearn, like this is what you're
doing.
And so we started learning.
Oh, this is we're doing thingsright, you know, and we're doing
some things really wrong, butwe're doing a lot of things
really well.
And so it was in 2013, threeyears after we had opened the
house that we started learning.
Structure is really good andthese ladies really do need

(15:04):
structure and it's not justbecause it helps us, but it
helps them.
It helps their really good andthese ladies really do need
structure and it's not justbecause it helps us, but it
helps them.
It helps their brain heal.
And so we really startedlearning all of those things and
implementing programming andthe structure and that type of
thing.
And it was about that time thatwe started learning.
There were other programs outthere, there were other
organizations that had kind ofstarted up around about a year

(15:29):
within the same year year and ahalf as us, and so we were all
on islands of our own around thecountry yeah and um, dennis,
why don't you share a little bitabout?

Speaker 1 (15:40):
because you you helped law enforcement and
trained them on trauma-informed.
So what were some of the thingsthat you learned in the home
that was able to translate?

Speaker 2 (15:51):
I think what was really incredible about that
opportunity to serve with HPD inthe role of a task force
coordinator was that I thinkthey were needing that.
I think that they knew there wasa missing piece and how they
were doing their investigativework, and it really came down to
focusing on the idea that thesewomen are not criminals.

(16:12):
They're actually victims ofcrime, right, and so it was just
a.
It was a major mind shift forthem, I think, to understand
that, and so that's what I gotto go in and do is the first few
months was just simplyobserving how they conducted
these operations with the women,right, and I remember the first
time going out, a very surrealexperience, the very first

(16:33):
operation I went on is we're ina hotel and it was like
everything moved in slow motion.
I'm in the room with the teamthat's going to go in and make
the arrest on the.
It was actually a buyer arrest,but I remember watching these
guys line up to go into the roomnext door and I'm watching them

(16:55):
set up and I'm also looking outthe hotel window of a family
playing in the pool and it wasjust so surreal that trafficking
was that close to this familyand they didn't even realize it
right, yeah but going throughthose operations, I got to
observe and I just really did.
First, I had to build trust withthe officers I was working with
.
Right, because I'm I'm anoutsider, I'm not, I'm not a

(17:17):
police officer and they, theyhave very limited trust to
outsiders.
So I got to develop some trustwith them.
But I remember the first timewe did an interview with a woman
they they had the woman sittingon the bed and two detectives
were interrogating her and theyweren't interviewing her.
They were interrogating her andI remember making notes and

(17:37):
saying this is something we'regoing to fix, this is this, is
it?
So?
I think that was really theturning point for me and for
them is when we did the debrieffor that I was able to say look,
you have to change your mind tohow you see this woman, right?
Because again, in the realityof coercion, when you're taking
somebody who's been coerced intothis, they're not doing this of

(17:59):
their own free will.
This is being forced upon them,right?
And so when we talk aboutsexual encounters against
someone's will, we're talkingabout sexual assault and we're
not talking.
You know, in most cases a womanmight experience a sexual
assault one time in her lifetime, but these women are doing it
10 or 12 times a day, right, andso change your mind about how

(18:20):
you see this person as being asexual assault victim.
That's one, two.
You would not interview her onthe bed where she's being raped.
That's just.
It's just wrong, right, yeah,so let's take her out of here,
let's take her someplace safe,and then that's not even you
guys don't even talk to heruntil we get services for her
that somebody else is able to doit.

(18:41):
So we change the whole dynamics.
So we talked about thattrauma-informed approach as I
went through it and I rewrotesome of the policies on how they
conducted operations from thattrauma-informed perspective.
Right, and that, like the firstprinciple, is safety, creating
an environment of belt safety.
Right, trustworthy transparency,peer support.

(19:03):
Is there somebody can be on,who can be on the team that is
actually a survivor that cancome in and actually talk to the
woman as well on the firstencounter with her.
Right, is there collaborationand mutuality, again, bringing
service providers in a part ofthat, being that piece
Empowerment, letting the womanmake choices about what's going

(19:23):
to be next for her and thenunderstanding again where she's
coming from this, this culturalcompetency of what she's
experienced in her past.
I used to tell officers all thetime is that because they would
ask me I'm trying to help her.
Why is she mad at me?
Why is why is she upset with me?
I'm trying to help her, and Iwould tell them because when she

(19:43):
encounters you, what sheremembers is the reason why
she's talking to you in thefirst place.
It may be that sexual assault ormolestation that happened at a
very early age and so thatgenerates an emotion of anger,
knowing that if that had nothappened, she would be talking
to you now and so you're goingto be able to pront to that.
So understanding where a personcomes from really changed our

(20:06):
dynamics of that and we saw anincrease in outcries from the
women as we changed the policiesand how we did that.
So from the trauma-informedperspective, that was the big
key element for that and I lovethe fact that I was able to
train officers and detectivesand sergeants and lieutenants so
that when my time was up,they're still doing that,

(20:26):
they're still engaging in thatkind of operational aspect of
investigations.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
So did you feel a pull to get involved in that
because of the work withRedeemed and what you were
seeing?

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, when I got the emailfrom the Office of the Governor
asking, would you be interestedin doing this, I definitely saw
it as an opportunity to changehow things were done, because,
again, talking to the women thathad been in our house and how
they interacted with lawenforcement was not the best
thing in the world.
They'd had really bad encounters, right, and we actually had

(21:01):
women who told us if he had justasked the right questions, it
would have changed my answersand it would have possibly given
me an opportunity to get out atthat time, and so I felt like
everything I had learned in thehouse working with women, having
the women trust me, was goingto be beneficial for changing
that dynamic for law enforcementand how they engage women in

(21:21):
the future.
So, yeah, it was definitely ano-brainer for me.
It was hardly redeemed becauseI loved working with Bobby and I
loved that environment, but itwas also a necessary thing.
That I think and even one ofthe people that was talking to
me encouraging me to do this isthis is what God wants you to do
.
This is an opportunity.
God's presenting to you because,again, with no law enforcement
experience whatsoever right.
And being presenting to youbecause, again with no law

(21:43):
enforcement experiencewhatsoever, right.
And being able to have suchinfluence in a department like
that that really wants to learnhow to do things better.
It was just an easy yes, wow.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
And I guess so with the home.
You know what is is I don'twant to say what is
trauma-informed care, becausethat's going to be uh, that's a
long response.
But to that, the person that'smaybe listening to this, they're
probably hearing this andthey're like well, I don't know
why, you know they're gettingsome hints in the stories and

(22:23):
stuff, but I guess when did youguys really begin to feel like
you're getting a sort of handleon how to care?

Speaker 2 (22:34):
I think it was the fact that we had, like Bob was
saying earlier, that we weredoing things right.
We were just doing things thatseemed natural to us, seemed
common sense to us.
It just seemed that this is howyou do it right.
And so I remember the firsttime I found this document.
It was put out by theInternational Society of
Traumatic Stress Studies and thetitle of this document is

(22:56):
Expert Consensus TreatmentGuidelines for Complex PTSD in
Adults right?
So it's a government document.
It has a long title, right, andbasically what it does is it
outlines what trauma is, andthen it outlines what the
trauma-informed approach isright and the principles
assigned to it, what it reallydefines kind of everything is.
And what's great about thedocument is it tells you what,

(23:17):
but it doesn't tell you how,right.
It just tells you this is whatthe elements of trauma is and
what the elements oftrauma-informed approach is.
It just tells you this is whatthe elements of trauma is and
what the elements oftrauma-informed approach is, but
it doesn't tell you the how to.
And so it outlines it basicallyin three things, and it
outlines some goals there thatshould be involved in the
trauma-informed approach.
And what we did was we lookedat this document and we looked

(23:39):
at our methodologies and whatwas great about what was
happening was our methodologieswere providing the means for the
goals that were listed in thisdocument.
So it was validation to us thatGod was doing stuff in us,
giving us understanding andknowledge that was actually in
alignment with what the scienceswere really learning about.

(24:00):
Trauma-informed approach.
That was it, and I think a lotof people throw that term around
trauma-informed approach.
That was it, and I think a lotof people throw that term around
trauma-informed approach a lot.
And I actually had agenciesthat would come to me oh yeah,
we're trauma-informed and Iwould start asking them
questions and I'm like, yeah,you're not trauma-informed
Because it's not aone-size-fits-all, because the
trauma-informed approach is tobe tailored to the environment

(24:24):
it's used in.
So what works in law enforcementwon't work in a home, and what
works in a home won't work in acourtroom or with a defense
attorney or in a counselingservice or in a hospital.
They're unique to eachenvironment, and so that's why I
think people don't understand.
It's not just the what, it'show you do.
It is very important, yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
And I think the way that I would answer that
question is a little bit lesstechnical, right?
So I would say that I agreewith everything Dennis has said,
but can you ask the questionone more time?

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah, I was just saying what is trauma-informed
care.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
What does that look like for us?
Yeah, what does it look like?
So what I would say is one wayyou know you're trauma-informed
is and you have to be verycareful about this but when the
individual is more importantthan the rules, so we have to

(25:27):
have rules, because without therules and without the structure
we're going to have chaos.
But when the woman who issitting in front of us is more
important than that, thatguideline or that rule, and we
can look at her and we can makea decision based on where she is

(25:49):
in her healing journey, and wecan say, okay, here's the rule,
here's the guideline.
However, you know X, y, z,that's being trauma informed.
If we need to make adjustmentsfor her healing, then that's
being trauma informed.

(26:09):
Also, when we're being, whenwe're client centered, we're
being trauma informed.
When we are survivor informed,when we're bringing in survivors
that are helping us to make ourpolicies, making sure our
intake you know our intakepolicies, our intake paperwork

(26:29):
all of that, all of those stepsare trauma informed.
That's how we know that we areindeed trauma informed.
And whenever we are doingeverything we can to literally
do no harm, but we want to heal.
Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
I think that a lot I mentioned this to a conversation
I had earlier this morning.
Some people will say thattrauma-informed approach is not
a cookie cutter.
Right and it is and it isn'tright.
And the reason I say that isthat you need the cookie cutter,
but you need to be able toshape the cookie cutter to the
needs of the woman yeah rightand so because there's, there's

(27:09):
an outcome you're looking for,but it's unique to the
individual right.
That's, that's the the trick.
Yeah, because again, we havewomen who come into the program
and they're so, they're sounique in their own unique ways,
and so, while it does work forone, it will not work for the
other.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
And so, again, being able to adapt to that is a
trauma-informed approach, butalso, I think, trauma-informed
is knowing what your limitationsare as an organization.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Because even with Redeemed Ministries and Elijah
Rising, we have worked togetheras organizations.
You know where we've been like,hey, this resident is not a fit
here or not working here, andwe've worked together, you know,
to transition residents backand forth and you know, and that

(27:57):
has worked well.
And so I think that is alsobeing trauma-informed, knowing
hey, this resident would dobetter in your program and this
one would do better in ourprogram and that works better
for that resident and thatindividual.
So I think that's also beingtrauma-informed.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah, I think a mistake that a lot of
organizations will make is theywant to be the answer to all of
it.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, you can't, you can't be the answer to all of it
.
You have to know yourlimitations and stay within your
scope of care yeah, yeah, let'stalk about limitations.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Uh, obviously you know this work is not easy and I
think for most people listeningthey're probably like well,
what's the big?
You know, all you do is justhouse women and take them to
appointments and but it's justthere.
But it's hard.
And for you guys to be doingthis for so long, especially
when there was no, you know,guidebook there was no course

(28:51):
you could take to to hand you.
Here are the things that you canavoid that can prevent, you
know, stress or trouble orissues in the home.
You guys are figuring this outon your own and doing the work
too.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
So you know what.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
I mean, what is it that keeps you going?
I think what has kept Dennisand I going for almost 20 years
is that we have not quit on thesame day.
You know, like on the days whenI have given up, when I am
exhausted, when I quit, heencourages me and he has the

(29:35):
strength for me to keep going,and on the days that he's
throwing up His hands and he'sdone and he doesn't have it, I
have the strength and theencouragement for Him.
And so I think you know, wehave not quit on the same day,
and that is one thing that haskept us going, and I say it all

(29:57):
the time.
I think that this may soundreally corny, but when God was
knitting me together in mymother's womb, he was literally

(30:18):
creating me for such a time asthis, and he was creating me for
this position, for thisposition in life and to work
with this population of women.
My heart beats when I'm in thatsafe house with those women.
My heart beats when I'm havingthose hard conversations with

(30:41):
them, when you know when I'mcelebrating with them or when
I'm mourning with them.
You know it's when I'm planninga meal with them.
Today I was texting with onewho's.
She's in the stage of her ourprogram where she's working

(31:02):
outside the home and she has herown cell phone and tonight she
is on kitchen duty.
So it's been a very busy weekand normally I have the meal
planned right, but I don't haveit planned tonight.
So I'm texting her what soundsgood for dinner tonight, and so
we've come up with a mealtogether and I'm like, oh, that
sounds good for dinner tonight.

(31:23):
And so we've come up with ameal together and like, oh, that
sounds good.
And so we're texting that thissame person, a couple of days
ago, had a terrible day at work.
And she's like that's it, I'mdone, I'm quitting.
It was easier in the life, youknow, and it wasn't easier in
the life, and she knows that,but she had a really tough day
at work.
And so you know we're talkingthrough those things and you

(31:51):
know so I was created for such atime as this and I know that
that's what has sustained me for19 years.
When they're mad at me andthey're saying, f you, it's not
easy, you know.
When they're frustrated with me, when I have to be the hard one
and say no, you know, and youcan't do this or you cannot do
that when they're arguingbecause somebody ate the last

(32:18):
yogurt for crying out loud, youknow, and it just seems
ridiculous.
You know, like sometimes acouple of us staff members will
look at each other and we'll belike I don't think people would
really believe us if we toldthem about this argument that
they just had, you know.
But you know, there's thesehard days and we're just

(32:41):
exhausted, you know, at the endof it.
But then there's those days ofjoy where last night, one of our
ladies came home from a Biblestudy and she sat down and she
goes just so, you know, I'mabout to unload on you and she
told me everything about whatshe had just learned at this
Bible study, about God's loveand God's love for us and the

(33:01):
non-romantic love.
And I just sat there and I wasworking on budgeting because I'm
doing this dual role.
So I closed the budget, the2025 budget, put it aside and
just like, okay, you know, let'slisten to this.
You know, and we talked about,you know that, and that's what I
was created for, not budgeting,not, you know all that.

(33:21):
That's what I was created for.
Let's, you know, let's talkabout this.
Let's talk about god's role inyour life.
Let's talk about that.
I think that that's what'ssustained us, and the fact that
we're doing this together as ahusband and a wife, um, and
that's a long answer for apodcast.
I know that's great but you knowpeople come, we have.

(33:46):
You know staff turnover in this, in this industry, in this
business, is tremendous yeah,not just with redeemed
nationwide yeah um, staffing isthe most difficult part of our
work and I hear it from everyorganization.
Every time I go to a conferenceto speak or to attend, it's

(34:07):
staffing, staffing, staffing,staffing.
Because this work is so hard,it's hard to maintain.
But I think you know.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, I think for me again, I agree with everything
Bobby said because theuniqueness of us being able to
work together I think that's fora lot of organizational leaders
out there who don't have thatthat's really a limitation that
hurts them the most, I think, isnot having a person that you're
joined together with, thatunderstands you and you're able

(34:37):
to share your feelings and vomit, when you need to vomit, all
the stuff that happened that day, and so I think that's a very
true statement.
I think, for another part, forme is, again, it's the mindset
of being missionaries.
Yeah, you know, because my hearthad always wanted to be a
missionary, right, that's why Iwas in Turkey.
I was drawn to that, but Godhad completely different plans.

(35:00):
He's like oh yeah, you're goingto be a missionary, but not in
Turkey, it's going to be in yourown backyard, you know, because
this is where I need you.
And so I think the missionarymindset is critical to success
Understanding and my pastor justspoke to this not too long ago
that we are sanctified for ourcalling, but we are also

(35:23):
sanctified in our calling right.
And so I think God sanctifiesus.
The things that are hard, thethings that hurt, those things
build us up as to what God wantsus to be.
And so I think understandingthat and trusting God is doing
something in you and through youis very critical to that
success as well.
And longevity, because then youknow that you're not doing it

(35:45):
for yourself, because I tellpeople all the time I didn't
choose this, this is notsomething I chose to do.
It's something that happened tome and I could not say no at
that point in time for me, whenit became a real thing, I I
couldn't walk away right, andeven though I did take a little
break, it just it needed tohappen for my own well-being.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, and I just had this thought because I'm on
staff at Elijah Rising and mywife is Micah, so we have a lot
of similarities, yeah, but weonly have, like, two other male
staff members, and so I'mcurious to hear your perspective
on this.
But is there a healing factorto having healthy men in the

(36:32):
home, like interacting with thewomen you're serving?
Because, when you look at it,the people that have abused them
have mostly men, either thetrafficker or the buyer.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
Can I answer?
that first one of the thingsthat I've seen that it's so
beautiful.
Um, we, one of our rules isdennis is not um supposed to be
alone with any of the ladies,right, and that's for his
protection, for their protection, for their felt safety.
Um, and it's so, just sobeautiful to see this.

(37:07):
Um, one of our ladies had onlybeen in the house just a few
weeks and her son was given abike for christmas and, um,
they're, we're a home where it'sjust the women and they don't
have their kids with them, butshe, she was just.
She says, do you think Denniswill help me build his bike?
And so, okay, sure, so you knowDennis is there and I got a

(37:30):
picture, you know, from adistance, of him helping her
build the bike.
You know those moments whereyou know he's able to get in
there and redeem some of that.
One of our ladies who is agraduate she was in our home for
two years and she graduated.

(37:51):
She was then in our graduatehome for another two years.
She's now on staff, full-time.
She's getting married insomething like 75 days or
something has asked Dennis towalk her down the aisle Talk
about redeeming right Becauseshe has been abused by so many
men, but she has said like thisis redeeming because I've been

(38:17):
able to see a healthy man here,healthy, a healthy man here and
so you know I we hear so oftenfrom our ladies just the impact
that it has had to be able to,you know, have a healthy man and
be able to see that and to seea healthy marriage.

(38:38):
So I know that the women thatyou guys serve are also able to
see that healthy marriage in youand Micah as well.
And that's redeeming and that'shealthy for them.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, because one of the things I learned is like we
literally would have girls tellus like I've never seen like a
couple get into an argument andnot like beat each other up?

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yes, exactly, and I was like what.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
It's like they've even said to us, like they tell
them well, I've never, we'venever used language or called
each other a name in the 42years we've been married.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
And they're like well , how do you have an argument
then?
How do you have an?

Speaker 2 (39:12):
argument, then how do you not cuss each other and I
call each other names, likebecause you don't?

Speaker 3 (39:16):
yeah, he's never called me the b word.
Well, I mean like, how do youhave an argument like and so it
literally, like, like youliterally see them, like.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
that's a concept I can't even comprehend.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
That's for them, and Dennis has a really cool Jeep
and so the ladies are like youknow, well, hey, you know Dennis
is going to the office.
Can I ride with Dennis, youknow?
And so there's moments, youknow where, it's like okay, so
she wants to ride with you.
It means she's going to bealone.
You know like I want to ridewith Dennis.
You know I want to go to, youknow, because I got to be in the

(39:52):
Jeep.
So you know they love that Itreasure the trust, right.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
I treasure the trust of that of being with the women
and you know and it'sinteresting because I can kind
of know when that getsestablished is the first time
they really make eye contactwith me.
I know that they're trusting me, right, and they ask me
questions and ask me what Ithink about things, and so just
that trust is so valuable, right, and so I can understand what

(40:20):
Jesus' words were If you causeone of these little ones to
stumble, it's seriousconsequences right.
And I take that very seriously,right, and so I respect that
trust, I honor that trust thatthey've given to me, and so I
love to be able to serve thewomen the way we do.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
And it reminded me of a story.
I love to barbecue and so wehave a little Weber grill in the
back of the home.
They never use it, and so I waslike, well, let me teach you
guys how to grill.
And we started fire and Ibrought fajitas, and so all the
ladies are out there having agood time, and one woman is just

(40:59):
terrified, and I didn't findthis out until later.
Woman is just like terrified,and I didn't find this out till
later, but she had had traumaticexperience with a grill where
they, you know, would burn heryou know different body parts on
the grill and she was like Ithought you were gonna, you know
, slam my face in the grill orsomething.
And I was like that is thefurthest thing from I mean I'm

(41:20):
not even contemplating thatthat's your fear.
But anyway, she came to thegrill and was like, hey, will
you, will you allow me to flipthis piece of chicken?
And I was like, sure, go aheadto me.
I'm thinking like, you know,just flip it.
And she, you know, she's likeshaking and I'm like, flip it,
come on.
Yeah, not knowing that this islike a healing, redeem,

(41:42):
redeeming moment, but to us it'sjust like this is every day.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
But to them it's like I'm overcoming something that I
don't have words for todescribe the pain that caused
Absolutely the reality isespecially, you know, because
working in operations, hpd, andseeing the buyers and and and

(42:08):
understanding, you know, tryingto understand where they're
coming from.
Again, it's a mentality that'sout there.
Where it comes from is all overthe place.
I mean media entertainment, allthese different things, the
sources of, of the wrong ideas,about the exploitation of women.
Right, and men have to get backto the point that we have only

(42:28):
one role and that's a protector.
If you're not a protector, thenyou're an abuser right.
And that's a black and whiteissue, and so you've got to
choose that role, and so, for us, as men, we have to be the
protector of women.
It's part of our tasking fromGod, and so I think that's an
important issue that gotoverlooked, and that's what
these women are wanting.

(42:48):
They're wanting to know thatthere's someone's going to be
able to protect them and notabuse them, and it sent a clear
message to them for for who weare and how we treat them wow
and david, there you have thereason for such a short resume,
because how do you put like onyour resume?

Speaker 3 (43:06):
David Gamboa griller.
Griller yeah, and teacher ofhow to cook fajitas and chicken,
and he who helps somebody heal,you know like.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah, you know like on your resume, right?

Speaker 3 (43:24):
I mean because God created you for that moment in
time, to help that woman heal,right?
You know?
And that is what it's difficultto even stand in front of
people at a fundraiser andsomehow capture in words and
tell people.
You know, we were sitting at adinner table once and one of the

(43:47):
ladies, she just kept kind ofstaring and you know we said
what?
You know, what are you thinkingright now?
And she said well, I'm justwaiting for dennis to pick up a
plate and throw it at you,because my stepdad every night,
you know he'd get he when he gotangry with my mom, he'd pick up
the plate and throw it, youknow, at her.

(44:07):
And I'm just waiting, you know,and dennis is like yeah, no,
that's not gonna happen, youknow yeah and a similar concept
you know, so they you don't knowwhat's going through their
minds, but we're teaching themsomething every single day,
whether it's how to boil an eggor you know.

(44:29):
Tonight I'll be teaching how tomake, you know, gourmet grilled
cheese sandwiches and tomatobasil soup, and the ladies will
be in the kitchen and that willbe the conversation We'll talk
about the day and I'll help themregulate their emotions.

(44:50):
And it's hard to encapsulatethat even when you're talking to
people, it's really difficultto.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Yeah, unless you're in it, Unless you are, not
everyone can be in those spaces,yeah it you're in it, unless
you are Not.
Everyone can be in those spaces.
Yeah, it is difficult.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Right now, in the state we're in right now family
dynamics I only get to go in thehouse every other week, so if I
was there all the time, then Icome in every other week, and
one of the things that Itreasure is the fact that the
women miss me when I'm not there.
Wow, they like me being there.
Wow, they like me being there.
It's not like I don't make themuncomfortable.
They like me being therebecause I add value to their

(45:29):
healing journey.
Yeah, there's something.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
They store up their questions.
Another thing is they naturallysee Dennis as a spiritual
leader.
It's interesting.
They naturally see him as aspiritual leader.
When is Dennis going to be here?
They stack up a spiritualleader.
When is Dennis going to be here?
They like stack up thesespiritual questions.
You know, like the chosen is,you know, just big for a couple
of our ladies and you knowthere's these questions.
You know that a couple of themkind of just stack up like I've

(45:54):
got all these questions aboutthe Bible, like when is he going
to be here?
And they see him at the officeevery day at the education
center.
Um, you know, they naturallykind of gravitate to him to ask
those spiritual questions, andso that's also a beautiful thing
to see yeah, that's interesting, um.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
so we talked about, you know, you guys starting
redeemed and being in this for20 years, and we were talking
before this episode of aboutsomeone saying, you know, man,
it just feels like the needlehasn't moved and, you know, you
said something really, reallypowerful.
It's like, from your perspective, it's moved incredibly far.

(46:33):
And as I'm hearing you guystalk, I'm like, yes, like
there's so much more resourcesnow In many ways, like there's
this analogy of a map maker andthey spend their years traveling
the world, mapping out the landand the seas and the

(46:53):
passageways, and for them to putit down on a piece of paper and
hand it to the next generation,like they don't have to go back
and redo that whole process,and so I really feel like this
is where we're at, where youguys have gained so much
knowledge and, and so many otherpeople too have have gained

(47:13):
experience and and there's, youknow, the, the shelter care
institute and just so many greatresources.
You know, what do you guys seekind of down the line, the next
20 years, um, being ofimportance?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
well, I think, going back to what you're saying about
, you know that idea of beingthe original gangster, so, as an
ogs of this work you know, oneof the things I I constantly
tell people, because in fact, Ihave two conversations coming up
very soon with two otherorganizations.
They're trying to open a homeright and they're asking hey,
can you give us advice?
as I, yeah, we're gonna, we'regonna share with you all of our

(47:49):
mistakes because we don't wantyou to reinvent those right yeah
because I think that's againthere's perceptions and
realities and expectations, whatit looks like right, and, like
I said, we've made so manymistakes, um, so many things
that we thought, oh, this, ohthis is going to work.
And then we do it and like, no,that did not work, that was a

(48:10):
bad idea, and even from atrauma-informed perspective, I
mean, there's so many differentmoving parts to it, and so I
think that's a beauty of what wewant to be able to do with
people is we want to be able toshare the failures, you know,
the mistakes we made, so thatthey don't reinvent those and
have to experience theheartbreak of that, because it
it hurts when you make a mistakeand it costs somebody their

(48:31):
healing, right, yeah, and so Ithink that's a valuable thing
about the growth of what we wantto do, moving forward is how do
we share that with other people?
you know, because, again whenyou look at the limited
resources of beds in the countryfor the number of victims that
are potentially out there, it'sshockingly, shockingly

(48:52):
inadequate, right?
Yeah, and so that's what.
That's what we want.
We want to be able to share theinformation with people in the
next 20 years or so so that morebeds are open.
They stay open yeah that's thescary thing is facilities open
and they're closed a year later?

Speaker 1 (49:07):
yeah because they just weren't ready for the
reality of what that looked likefor them yeah, I think people
think of a city has a home, thenthey're good, but I'm like we
probably need like 20 otherhomes just to meet just a small
percentage of the need.
Yeah, and staffing, andstaffing, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
The staffing part again is the most difficult
piece is finding the rightpeople to do the work.
Again, it's this idea of and Iteach this all the time about
expectation gap right, we allhave expectations of things, the
way things should go, and thenreality comes in much, much
lower than the expectation.
And there's such disappointmentand frustration and aggravation,

(49:47):
justification, all these thingsthat live in that expectation
gap, and so what we want to dois limit that so that people
don't experience that and go.
This is really what you'rewalking into.
In fact, we've had people cometo us in the past who were on
staff.
You know I want to open a home.
Well great, come work with usfor a year and if you still want
to do that at the end of theyear, we'll help you figure out

(50:08):
a way to open a home.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Not one of those people has ever opened a home.
People has ever opened a home,wow right.
They went into other fields ofstudy, like counseling or social
work or whatever, but afterworking a year in the safe house
, they're like no, I don't wantto do that.
That's not what I expected yeahand so that's.
That's what it looks like forthe next generation of people is
just don't try to startsomething new.

(50:31):
Learn from the people that aredoing the work and have been
doing the work for a long time,so that you'll be sustainable
and you'll be in it for the longhaul.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
I also think the face of trafficking and sexual
exploitation is changing, withsome of the apps that we have,
with just the face of whatexploitation looks like, with
only fans and a higherpercentage of kids and adults,

(51:09):
men and women, boys and girls,girls kind of entering a world
that looks likeself-exploitation, with more and
more what looks likelegalization of prostitution
happening.
This, the sexual exploitation,I think, is going to look

(51:30):
different, and I think theservices that we provide are
going to have to look a littlebit different as we go.
And so the types of homes, likeyou said a second ago, we're
going to need more homes and Ithink they're going to have to
each be unique in the way weserve Specialized.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
We need to expand, we need to increase our capacity
and, as we do that, we need tospecialize and tweak just a bit.
We may not necessarily need togo.
Okay, now we're going to open ahome for moms with their kids
which we might, because there'sa need for that.

(52:13):
There's a need for moms thatare pregnant, there's a need for
men, there's a need for teenageboys, there's a need for those,
right.
But there's also going to bethis need for more of the LGBT
community, right.
There's going to be more of aneed for women who are coming

(52:34):
out of the OnlyFans, people whoare coming out of strip clubs
who are feeling like, well, Inever had a pimp to have been
sexually exploited, but theywill not identify as trafficked.
So that could be over the nexteight or ten years I don't know

(53:06):
how long it's going to take butwe in this field just need to be
prepared, for what is it goingto look like and how do we
prepare for that?
How do we prepare to serve um?

Speaker 2 (53:17):
you know, in general, you know just get just be
prepared for that changinglandscape so that's, that's the
important aspect of what thetrauma informed approach does is
.
It doesn't matter theuniqueness of the population
you're working with.
The trauma is always going tobe the same the brain's going to
be affected the same way in theexploitation right.
Either through trafficking oreven through self-exploitation.

(53:40):
Right, there's still going tobe trauma there and most times,
like even for most of the womenthat come through our program,
it's not the exploitationhappened in the trafficking.
It was the stuff that happenedto them before they ever entered
into trafficking that they'redealing with.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
That's what they talk about the most.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Yeah that's what they talk about the most, and so
you're going to be dealing withpeople who may not have ever
been had a pimp or a trafficker,but that trauma is still there.
That childhood trauma,developmental trauma, is still
going to be there, prevalent intheir life and affecting their
ability to make cognitivedecisions that are best for
their health and well-being.
Their ability to make cognitivedecisions that are best for
their health and well-being yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
Because a lot of our grants right now, I mean most of
our funding the requirement isforce, fraud and coercion.
And so that is our requirementfor intake is the presence of
force fraud and coercion, orforce fraud or coercion, and so
at some point in time we'regoing to have to look at.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Yeah, expanding that definition.
Yeah.
So last question if you hadunlimited resources, what is one
thing you would implement inthe anti-trafficking space?

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Do you want to challenge me on this one?
Yeah, I you know we jokinglytalked about this earlier, but I
think again.
It's a, it's an idea of thatdefinition of unlimited
resources, right?
and how you look at it, it's thewillingness of people to

(55:09):
redirect funds to somethingthat's serious, right?
If you think about I saw a memethe other day that if you want
to save $10,000, stop spending$27.41 frivolously every day and
you would save $10,000, right?
So we think about the frivolousspending that goes on in the
communities around our nationand around the world.

(55:30):
Right, we redirect those fundsto the anti-trafficking world.
It would give us unlimitedresources to provide all those
services that are needed for thepopulation of people at all
different levels, right?
Um, and so I when I when I hearthat unlimited resources, we
have unlimited resources.
This is the fact that we don'thave availability and access to

(55:53):
those unlimited resources.
I remember my good friend, davebattsatson, said that, yeah,
you can teach a person to fishand he'll feed himself the rest
of his life, but if he doesn'thave access to where the fish
are, then he doesn't do any goodto fish.
So I think that's an importantaspect of this.
And so if we look at God as theperson who gives us all things,

(56:16):
right, and we trust him, as theword tells us, he is our
shepherd we lack nothing.
We have the ability to.
It's just the willingness ofpeople to step into the role and
people willing to fund thereality of that right and yeah,
and, and not waste it on thingsthat, um, that don't really
matter.
I mean, I spent, you know, in mybreak from redeemed.

(56:39):
I spent a year and a half andas a hospice chaplain wow, and
one of the things, one of thegreat things I learned about
that is the things that we thinkare important in life when
you're in hospice care aren'timportant at all, right, and the
things that you thoughtmattered don't matter, um, and
so you, I.
I dealt with a lot of peoplewho had regrets about how they

(57:00):
spent their time, spent theirlife, spent their money, um, and
would love to go back andreshape how they they did live
their life, and I think that'sreally what it is.
But if we had unlimitedresources, there are so many
opportunities that could bereached with those unlimited

(57:22):
resources.
So there's not just one thing,there's too many things to list.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
So if I had unlimited resources, first thing I would
do is buy a new van, right.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
First thing I would do is buy a new van right.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
But I mean there is such a need for trafficked women
with mental health issues andwe did talk about this earlier,
when you know, before we startedthis filming, and that's
probably the hardest, one of thehardest things for the
sustainability of our staff andit's an unbelievably expensive

(58:10):
aspect the appropriate medicalstaff to be able to serve women
with a higher level, a higheracuity of with mental illness
needs, you know, and becausethat is definitely huge.
Yes, there is a huge gap there,a big needs gap, but absolutely,
there are so many of the smallneeds, you know, are there are

(58:38):
so many of the small needs, youknow, and, like Dennis said,
there is, the money is out thereand we just have to be able to
tap into it.
But the huge needs, you know,if we had those unlimited
resources, absolutely, if therewere millions and millions out
there, you know, yes, we woulddefinitely be able to tap in and
take care of those with ahigher acuity, even medical

(59:01):
needs, because we're seeingwomen who are aging, who are,
you know, outside of our scopeof medical care that we're able
to give, because they weretrafficked 20, 30 years ago and
their bodies are breaking downand we're not able to take care

(59:21):
of them at this point, but theyneed someone to, because the
system can't take care of them,and so that would be another
specific need.
But that would take, you know,some of those unlimited funds,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
I think you asked earlier about the hook, you know
, and it kind of circles backaround to the hook that got me
was in the strip club and Iremember the night we were there
and I noticed a lot of veryyoung-looking women working that
night and so I asked one of thewaitresses that we were in a
relationship with there.
I asked her about these thatnight.
And so I asked one of thewaitresses that we were in
relationship with there.
I asked her about these youngwomen.
He goes, oh, they have theirIDs.
And I'm like, yeah, they'reprobably fake IDs, but no big

(01:00:00):
deal, right?
So this is back before they hadto be 21 now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
And so I said but they look really young.
She goes oh yeah, yeah, they'rehigh school at the time, wow.
As a dad, I could not wrap mymind around the fact of my girls
working at the strip club toearn prom money, right, yes,
that was really the dynamic, forthat changed me.
It was really like god speakingto me saying so, dennis, this

(01:00:28):
was your daughter.
Wouldn't you want someone tointervene in her life?
Right, right, and I thinkthat's the trick to help
understand people, to get thiswhat this is.
Right, it's not some personthat's unknown, that doesn't
really exist in reality.
It's someone's daughter, it'ssomeone's sister, it's a child

(01:00:53):
that's been, you know, beenexploited and continues to be
exploited, right.
And so changing that dynamic ofhow people look at this changes
the dynamic of how they spendtheir money, right, because,
again, if this was your childand I've gotten those horrible
phone calls from parents, right,my daughter's in this and I
don't know what to do, and theywould be willing to spend

(01:01:15):
whatever money they have intheir savings account to rescue
that child out of the life.
And so, if we can get people tounderstand the reality of what
that looks like for them, youdon't want that to be your child
, and so what would you do?
What would you spend to getthem out of that situation?
You would spend everything youhad to get them out of that, and
so I think that's the realityis helping people understand

(01:01:39):
what that looks like for forthese, for every woman and every
man and every person who'sbeing exploited, that they're a
child of god yeah and theydeserve to be, live a healed
whole life, and so that's animportant aspect of how we get
those resources.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
It's how we communicate well, I have
tremendous respect for both ofyou guys I just want to say this
is this has been like a joy forme to just listen to you guys
share and get to know you moreand, um, I just have mad respect
for you guys and what you guysare doing at redeemed.
Um, as you guys know, we werepartners in this with elijah

(01:02:18):
rising and so, as we kind ofwrap up this podcast episode,
how can people stay connectedwith what you're doing?
If they want to learn more, ifthey want to, you know, partner
with redeemed, or maybe they're,you know they're thinking, hey,
god is leading us to start asafe home.
Can we connect with you?
Share a little bit about howpeople can get connected?

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
Well, if they want to connect with us, I recommend
they go straight to our website,wwwredeemedtxorg.
If somebody is wanting to starta safe home, I if somebody is
wanting to start a safe home, Icompletely recommend the
Institute for Shelter Care.
Yeah, because they are leadersin helping organizations every

(01:03:08):
step of the way.
Yeah, and I believe you guys,as well as us, are adjunct
faculty in training on that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
No, we're the students, you're students, yeah,
okay.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Well, we are adjunct faculty and help training, so I
just recommend that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Institute for Shelter , and they have online resources
and videos.
It's fantastic.
It's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
They will help new organizations.
But if people want to getconnected with us, to volunteer,
you know, bring resources,professional resources, whatnot?
Our website is the best.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Yeah, and also on Facebook.
You can follow us on Facebook.
A lot of stuff that goes on inthe safe house.
Day-to-day things happen thereCelebrations and all the things
that are going on with theladies in our program.
You can learn about from thereas well.
Just kind of follow along andsee what a day in the life looks
like in our program.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Yeah Well, guys, thank you for having us.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Thank you for the opportunity to be here with you
today.
It really means a lot for us,the partnerships we have and the
longevity of both of ourorganizations and doing what
we're doing.
It's just unique and we get thepleasure and the benefit of God
using us in this work.
Well, thank you guys.