Why do so many foster care systems fall short in providing adequate support for vulnerable children and families?
Amber's firsthand experiences highlighted critical gaps within the foster care system, motivating her to establish the Riverside Project.
Riverside Project focuses on collaborative system change and the mobilization of churches and communities to fill gaps in the foster care system.
We also explore the complexities and potential of transitioning to a community-based foster care model. Amber emphasizes the benefits and challenges of fostering regional ownership and community collaboration.
Whether through volunteering, praying, or responding to local needs, everyone has something valuable to offer.
Learn more at https://riversideproject.org/ and don't forget to like, subscribe, and share.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Elijah Rising podcast.
My name is Micah and today I'mjoined by Amber Knowles, founder
of the Riverside Project.
Amber, you've been with usbefore.
We're so glad to have you back.
Thanks for having me.
It's great to be back.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about yourself?
You have a fantastic history.
You were a pediatric nurse andyou did some other work in the
(00:22):
healthcare field before youstarted this, so why don't you
tell us a little bit aboutyourself?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Sure, well, I started out, I would say, kind of my
first interaction with fostercare was as a nurse practitioner
.
So I worked in pediatric,community health and
school-based healthcare and Ihad patients that came in who
were either in foster placementsor just biological families
that were really vulnerable, andso through that experience
started learning just a littlebit kind of a disconnected view
(00:49):
but started seeing thecomplexities that some of these
families were facing and so andalso recognizing the complexity
of their medical needs andbehavioral health needs and the
referrals that they needed andjust all the things that they
were navigating, and so that waskind of my first interaction
with the foster care space.
And then my husband and Ibecame foster parents back in
(01:09):
2014.
We started the process in 2014,became licensed and then our
very first placement was in 2015, which ended up being the
placement of our now adopted son.
It was our first placement.
He never left and which is notnormally the case and then since
then had another biologicalkiddo and then the brother of
(01:30):
our adopted son came to us veryunexpectedly in 2018.
So, of course, the personalexperience of working in the
foster care space really gave usthis front row seat to some of
these gaps in the system and,just through a lot of different
circumstances, the Lord kind ofput this in front of me and
(01:51):
really wanted to see how do weactually move from.
The foster care system isbroken and it always will be to.
There are some very real, veryfelt gaps within this child
welfare system, but there reallyare solutions out there that we
can work with.
But we have to figure out howto work as organizations and
churches and different peopleall doing it together instead of
(02:12):
doing it kind of separated andsiloed.
And so in 2018, we started theorganization and we've been
doing lots of different thingssince then.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
That's an incredible story.
I didn't realize that yourkiddos were brothers.
It's really special.
So last time you were with uswe talked a little bit about,
you know, the vulnerabilities ofchildren who are aging out of
the foster care system and howthat makes them vulnerable to
trafficking.
But today we wanted to talk alittle bit kind of more focusing
on the Riverside Project, whatyou guys do, who your clients
(02:45):
are.
So do you mind sharing with ourlisteners just our recap what
do you guys do at the RiversideProject?
And maybe, if you could add,why did you found it?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Sure, yeah, I think the last time I was here we may
have still been operating underFostering Family was our actual
legal name.
It's still, technically, is ourlegal name, and now Riverside
Project.
We rebranded a couple of yearsago really, because the
Riverside Project was the namethat we gave to our church
mobilization effort.
Once we started that program,we called it the Riverside
(03:15):
Project and it came from thisanalogy of you know, if you were
and two of your friends werewalking down the side of the
river and you see kids andfamilies in the water.
One person jumps in.
One person sees there's awaterfall downstream.
We have to do something aboutthis.
So one person runs that way andthen one person starts thinking
well, you know what's happeningupstream, why are these kids and
families in the water in thefirst place?
(03:35):
And so they go in a completelydifferent direction, but they're
all attacking the same problem.
And so we use this analogy thatcame from a book by Jason
Johnson, who works in this space, and this analogy really gave
people handles for attackingthis complex issue of foster
care.
And so, because it really helpspeople to understand it a
(03:58):
little bit better, we then kindof rebranded to become the
Riverside Project completely, tobecome the Riverside Project
completely.
And so we say our missionstatement at the Riverside
Project is that we are acollaborative network of
organizations and passionatepeople who are all working
together to transform the fostercare system in Houston.
And the way that we kind ofcommunicate what we do, it's a
little bit a little difficult tocommunicate because we're not
(04:19):
we don't provide direct servicesto families for the most part,
and so that sometimes is alittle bit difficult for people
when they're saying, hey, whatis it that you do every day?
We work primarily in twodifferent arms.
One is system transformation,so we develop collaborative and
innovative strategies within thesystem to solve some of these
(04:40):
problems, to fill in some ofthose gaps.
So we work with CPS, we workwith agencies, we work with
group homes and supervisedindependent living facilities,
really sometimes asking thequestions of what is the problem
that you're experiencing, thatwe're hearing from everyone and
then how can we come up with acreative solution that helps us
to do this work better?
Essentially, in terms of theriver, it's how do we actually
(05:02):
get kids and families to theside faster and more efficiently
?
The other side of the work thatwe do is really church and
community mobilization.
So, again in terms of the river,how do we, once the kids do get
out of the water, how do wekeep them there in the community
so that they don't fall backinto involvement with the system
?
And so through that, we have ateam of people church
(05:25):
mobilization specialists andcommunity resource people,
coordinators who really help tomobilize the church and
community partners to get kidsand families and keep them out
of the water.
That's great.
Yeah, it looks like a lot ofdifferent things sometimes, but
it's really coming at the ideathat one single organization
(05:45):
cannot fix this problem.
We all have to be in the rightplace with the right tools.
And then we actually have a shotat making change in this space.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I love that you talked about systems change, so
that's so fascinating.
We'll touch on that later,don't let me forget.
I want to make sure that youanswer some of those questions
around what that looks like.
Don't let me forget, I want tomake sure that you answer some
of those questions around whatthat looks like.
You know, I've heard you saybefore that you know kids and
families in the river right, andso I think there's, you know,
(06:16):
some misconceptions around.
Oh, we just want to separatethe kids and make sure the kids
are safe and kind of disregardthe family unit and make sure
the kids are safe and kind ofdisregard the family unit.
Would you speak to that andmaybe some other misconceptions
that we kind of, as society,hold around the foster care
system?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, I think that's really important because the
public image, as you also, I'msure, interact with just within
the trafficking space, thosemisconceptions change the way
people view it and theirwillingness to get involved in
that work right.
And so, yeah, one of the thingsthat we say even going back to
that river analogy, what we saya lot in just conversations that
(06:51):
we're having about this is thatwhen we talk about going
upstream and we talk aboutfiguring out why kids and
families are in the water andwhy they are vulnerable, what we
often mostly don't see arereally stable families just
throwing their kids into thewater.
It's just, yes, abuse happensand horrendous abuse does happen
.
100% of those things do happen,but for the most part, it's
(07:13):
vulnerable families who are inthe water and sometimes
generations of families who havebeen in the water and maybe
have never known or, if not fora very long time, have known
what it's like to live on theside, and maybe they don't have
the relationships or theresources or the stability to
find their way out, and sothat's a very real um.
I think misconception thatpeople have is that foster care
(07:35):
means kids and families are inthe water because parents don't
love them, parents are bad um,or parents, you know, don't love
their children, and that's justnot the case most of the time.
And so just recognizing thatstarts to build some compassion
for what's actually happening.
Why are kids and families inthis situation?
And then, in terms of what wedo as a system, it's having the
(07:59):
discernment to know when we'relooking at a kid or a family, is
this a situation where we canget the family out together?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
which is ideal?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Or is this a family where, if nothing, if we don't
get the kid out, the family'sgonna like they will drown.
They may all drown, and that'sa really when you talk about CPS
and the misconceptions there.
It's a very hard job to be ableto discern that and get the kid
and the family out as well as wecan as a unit, while keeping
(08:30):
everybody safe.
So I think there's a lot therethat we have to kind of, you
know, shift in our mindset and alot of discernment that we have
to utilize with thosesituations too.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, and we see, I mean we probably our listeners
for the most part know this.
But you know, if you're talkingabout the river, I feel like
even downstream from that yousee trafficking situations or
just self-exploitation, survival, sex, that kind of thing.
Absolutely, and I'm surethere's other forks of the river
that go different places.
But so can you talk a littlebit about?
(09:05):
When you're saying vulnerablefamilies, what are you
referencing?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, the way we are speaking of it.
So foster care is a system wewould say is kind of midstream
of this river.
There are things upstream likepoverty, addiction, crisis,
pregnancy, lack of education,all these things that are
happening upstream that thenfunnel them down into the foster
care system.
So we would say we primarily atthis point, work on the
midstream of the river, from thepoint at which CPS gets
(09:33):
involved so kind of upstream ofthe midstream all the way down
to when a kid ages out of thefoster care system, which then
gets them kind of into this.
What we would say is downstream.
So, yes, kids who age out, oreven kids who, or families who
interact with the foster caresystem and then do not find the
support and stability that theyneed.
That also includes the kid whohas been adopted into a family
(09:54):
and then put back into thesystem or a kid who is adopted
into a family that's really notmeeting their needs
appropriately and still dealingwith the traumatic experiences
that they experience and thatwill then, you know, continue to
keep this cycle going,essentially.
And so, yeah, I thinkvulnerable, I would say, is kind
(10:18):
of anyone interacting, whetherthey're interacting with the
foster care system or not.
Vulnerable means they're,they're not thriving right
they're not rooted in acommunity um and they're not
experiencing health andwholeness I'm sure there's a lot
who fall into that scenario.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I mean, there's a lot of different factors, right?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I can think of dozens right, whether they have
involvement with the system ornot.
Yeah, there are many, many, manyvulnerable kids and families in
our city, but understanding howall those different factors and
social issues fit together andhow they interact, rather than
kind of this is poverty, this istrafficking, this is, you know,
incarceration, and we kind ofdeal with the issues as
(10:58):
individual problems and we misssometimes how does poverty
interact with foster care?
How does foster care theninteract with trafficking?
It's like the connection pieceof how one gets to the other.
I think sometimes we miss thatand we miss opportunities to
understand the problem in itsentirety, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
No, it totally makes sense.
We see that all the time intrafficking.
You know all of the riskfactors that you can think of
like the vulnerabilities are.
We see them all in trafficking.
You know you mentioned poverty,homelessness, lack of education
, lack of adequate adequate likehealthcare or access to medical
services, crisis pregnancyabuse, addiction, disease.
(11:40):
I mean.
You name it so many.
So we, we have the same viewthat you know it's not a one
organization or 50 organizations, anything, it's like the
community at large comingtogether.
So I would love to hear more umfrom you.
I don't know if you want totalk a little bit about how do
you see those pieces comingtogether with the work that you
(12:01):
guys do at the riverside project?
You talked about getting kindof churches engaged, getting
communities engaged.
How do you see those piecescoming together with the work
that you guys do at theRiverside Project?
You talked about getting kindof churches engaged, getting
communities engaged.
How do you try to bridge thosegaps for people?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, a lot of it is first, I think, starting out
with just helping them to learn.
So we say, hey, just let's haveconversations about what it is
that you see in your community.
Just let's have conversationsabout what it is that you see in
your community.
So, speaking specifically tochurches, the way that we come
alongside them, we know thatchurches in our community care
about these things.
I've never really met a churchthat would say like, yeah, we
(12:36):
just don't care, they're thechurch, hopefully they care,
right.
But the problem is more.
I don't understand this issue.
I don't understand what I haveto give here.
I don't want to hurt peopleunintentionally, and so what we
can do?
We say right off the bat we'renot the organization that you
just give money to, and then wego solve the problem because
theologically we don't believethat that's how things get
(12:57):
changed in our city.
We believe that in many ways thechurch is that vehicle for
redemption and so if we can thencome alongside and give tools
doesn't mean that every churchneeds to be an expert on all
things foster care but if we cansay we can be a guide for you,
we can help you understand whythese things are happening and
then really drill down into yourcontext as a church.
(13:19):
Who are your people?
How big is your church?
How do you operate?
Is it small groups, is it megachurch, is it Sunday school and
what languages do you speak?
What are your people alreadyexcited about?
How many foster families are inyour church.
It helps us to then comealongside them and say, okay,
here are some tools, here aresome things that you should know
(13:40):
, and then let's plug you into away that your church can get
more engaged and sometimesthat's them creating a program.
Many times it's not.
We always say it's.
It's not putting something onyour website, necessarily, it's
not creating this big budget.
Sometimes it's just hey, we'regoing to bring you a need in the
community that we get from aCPS worker that's two minutes
(14:01):
from your church.
When we do that.
Can you say yes and walkalongside that family?
Yeah, we can do that.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And sometimes it's connecting them to like hey,
there's a nonprofit down theroad that works in this space
and they run a foster closet.
How about we pair you togetherand you start working in tandem?
So it's not just connect allthe churches to us.
It's based on who you are andwhat you care about in this
space.
Let's find some ways for you toget involved, and we do that
for people too.
(14:28):
People will reach out and justsay, hey, I want to get involved
somewhere.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Where do you live?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
What are you passionate about?
What capacity do you have?
And here's a mentororganization.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Here's you know a place to volunteer.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Here's a way to you know if you're thinking about
fostering and adopting.
Here's some agencies to talk to.
A lot of what we do is justmaking connections and then
giving people some tools to dowhat they really would love to
do.
They just don't really know it.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, You're almost like a mentor to people Like let
me help you.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
You're a mentor, You're a consultant, You're you
know it's like all those things.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Let me help you get engaged in this issue.
Let us just let's just connectthe dots for you.
That's good, yeah, that'sreally good Like a guide.
So let's circle back, cause youtalked about systematic change.
Systems change, right,organizational.
If you will think about it inthat measure, what are some gaps
or some places that you see,maybe in the welfare system?
Or what have you that reallyneed maybe updating?
(15:25):
Or you see, man, these problemsare solvable, like you
mentioned earlier.
Do you see any themes that arekind of coming to the?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
forefront of your mind in this realm of service.
Yes, let me think of all ofthem.
No, there's a lot, I think,because it's such a complex
problem and it has so manydifferent facets.
Right, you're talkingbiological families and their
needs to keep families together,which is absolutely a priority.
If we're ever to kind of likefix foster care, it doesn't
(15:57):
start by just doing a bigcampaign for more foster parents
, and sometimes we have to fightagainst that idea.
It's not that we don't wantpeople to become foster parents
Absolutely we do.
We care about foster care andsee the need for it, and
adoption too.
We also understand that if thisissue is going to be tackled,
we have to try to keep familiestogether in the first place.
(16:18):
It's that upstream aspect of it,because we see downstream the
things that happen and thetrauma that happens.
I see it in my home, I see itwith my kids.
I know what happens when thosethings don't work out the way
that they should and when afamily can't stay together, and
it's a very real thing and apart of the conversation that
they should.
And when a family can't staytogether, um, and it's a very
real thing and a part of theconversation that we have to be
(16:41):
having, and so it it's difficultbecause there's so many aspects
that need to be fixed all atonce, um.
But in addition to that I wouldsay you know, the mental health
aspect is a big one.
The need for really good, solid, trauma-informed,
attachment-focused behavioralhealth and mental health
(17:03):
resources is unfortunately kindof lacking, even in a city like
Houston.
There are lots of services outthere, but, as you would
probably agree with in thetrafficking space, the things
that are needed they have to berelationship-based, because the
trauma that happens in thesespaces is so relational and so
(17:23):
the ability to trust isfractured, the ability to
connect is fractured to familyor to a grandmother and be
successful in their learning andin just in life, because
they're still dealing with a lotof those ruptured relationships
(17:44):
.
And so that's one that we talka lot about.
It's a conversation we'rehaving with a lot of
stakeholders and they believethat too.
We're all kind of recognizingthe need for this but still
trying to figure out.
You know there's money involved,like there's someone has to pay
for that, so there's moneyinvolved, like there's someone
has to pay for that, so it'svery complex, and so those types
of things are a really big dealand we're trying to come up
(18:06):
with some more innovative waysto work on those things.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's fantastic.
I mean it's at the basis, the,the foundation, rather, of
everything that you want tobuild upon that trust, that
place of trust, feeling like I'msafe, I can let down my guard,
I can, and then learning rightand then like new behaviors, new
patterns, new relationshipseven are being able to formed
(18:32):
out of that.
So, yeah, we absolutely seethat in, um, I mean in the
trafficking, the safe home thatwe run, yeah, and then we're
dealing, we're serving women intheir adulthood who maybe have a
decade of this in their past.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Right, so it can, it can really impact them just the
rest of your life, every littlefactor you know yeah, and I mean
I think it also impacts theability, the way that it kind of
affects generations after that.
Yeah, absolutely, when moms ormoms that you see in the
restoration home who have beenin these exploitive
(19:06):
circumstances and then they'realso trying to parent their
children, those things influenceone another and the trauma that
the kid then experiences andthe just instability of the home
.
When a mom is still dealingwith that, it's hard for them to
navigate and it's hard tosometimes find the resources
that are actually going to beeffective in those spaces.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Absolutely.
And even though so much hasbeen done and I can only speak
for really, the anti-traffickingspace, so much work has been
done to like build homes andlaunch this program, in that
program, it still feels like inthat crisis moment it's sorely
lacking.
In that emergency moment we arelike, yeah, always scrambling
(19:47):
to find the right resources forthe individual because they have
unique needs, right.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So um, I'm sure you guys find the same thing oh yeah
, and I think it goes back tothe funding conversation as well
Like we keep saying we needanother program and then we need
to.
We see it a lot in foster care.
Right it's.
We have a program for ateenager in foster care who
doesn't have a family, so wecreate a group home.
Well, then the kid ages out ofthe group home and they're still
not, you know, restored.
(20:13):
Right, they haven't gotten theright kind of treatment, or they
just they haven't.
They're still not able to besuccessful on their own.
So we create a supervisedindependent living facility,
yeah.
Then they start another program, right, yeah.
And then it's like, well, whathappens when they're 23 or 24?
And now they have to leave that?
And then we wonder why they endup incarcerated.
Yeah, because we go fromprogram to program to program,
what we see is that what'ssometimes lacking?
(20:36):
All of those programs cost money, and I think often we're like
there's another problem, throwmore money at it and absolutely
we have to have the funding tokeep these things going.
But the currency we havestarted saying a lot lately is
the currency in the space isrelationships.
If these programs are not, then, helping kids and young adults
to find and moms, biologicalfamilies to find relationships
(20:59):
that are safe and stable andloving and secure and can help
them move into stability, thenthe program's ineffective.
It all comes down to whether ornot these programs are helping
them to access safe and stablerelationships, and that is
really really hard.
You know who provides thosethings.
How can one organizationprovide the type of relational
(21:22):
support through a traumaticexperience and then keep doing
it for more than a day, right?
It's just a lot to take on, andso we have to be really
innovative, I think, in the waythat we engage the church the
way that we engage the community, to be those and to see what's
happening in these spaces and bea friend right To offer that
(21:44):
type of relationship.
They're not going to provideall the mental health resources
right, but people can be, canprovide relationships in a
really healing way.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, and that's something that we see as a key
for women who, you know, to endrecidivism, to give them a
successful launch, outside ofour program.
I mean, I think it all comesdown to community healthy,
stable, godly, you know,restorative community.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So much of that healing just happens around
people and like those deeprelationships that are formed,
those connective bonds, and thenyou see you, know when families
or these women who come out ofan exploitive situation and
they're trying to find thatcommunity, so often the trauma
keeps them from it the verything that they need, they
isolate.
(22:33):
We see it with foster andadoptive families too.
When you're in the trenches andlife is crazy and you're trying
to deal with these, you knowthe behaviors of the child in
your home and the struggles thatthey have.
Our tendency in those moments,for whatever reason, is to
isolate ourselves, away fromcommunity.
And so, again, it's helping thechurch to be a loving presence,
even in those moments wherethey feel like they need to
(22:53):
isolate, to stay present.
Um, it's really hard to to dothat when you're in the midst of
it.
You know, to access communityand to want people involved, um,
we just kind of start to startto move away from each other
yeah, well, it takes a lot ofvulnerability.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, yeah, and a lot of not putting on.
You know, yeah, face I can, Ican handle it and also like
trusting other people that theycan handle it right.
They can, they're gonna stepinto that mess or what have you,
and they can support you in ityeah, absolutely well, you have
a lot.
Um, I just really commend youbecause I think what you guys
are doing with the church isit's something that I think both
(23:32):
parties are hungry for.
The church wants to help andyou guys need people.
You you know everyone obviouslyin society, but y'all
specifically need people to help.
But it's a big job what youhave in front of you.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And unfortunately the reputation of the church has
become in many ways not a placewhere people find safety, and I
think there's something toreally mourn and lament in that
that people are not oftenfinding safety and stability and
wholeness by being a part ofthe church.
(24:10):
I do think it is happening.
Yeah, hey, let's reallyprioritize becoming a church
where people feel like they canfind real, not just the
gospel-centered community, butreally be able to carry people's
(24:30):
burdens and needs.
And, unfortunately, whetherit's through just distraction or
I don't really, can't evenreally put my finger on what it
is exactly.
But in our culture we've kindof shifted away from discipling
our people to get in the water.
People don't.
We say often.
We don't fish people out of thewater, we have to get in.
That's what Jesus did.
He didn't stay in heaven, heactually entered into our world
(24:53):
and therefore we can follow himthere, but it's uncomfortable
and it's messy and we don'talways know what to say or what
to do, but I do think thatthere's a a really a big need
for the church to to think moredeeply about how we're
discipling our people into hardthings rather than teaching our
people to insulate.
(25:13):
I love the world yeah, um.
It's the only way that thechurch really becomes the type
of place where people heal.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
And I love that so I could.
We can talk all day long onthat.
Maybe next time.
I love, I love that so much.
I think that's spot on.
Yes, we're raising disciplesright, we're not not attendees.
So you had mentioned that therewere some developments, some
changes coming to the fostercare system statewide.
(25:42):
Would you kind of walk usthrough what that looks like?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Sure, it's trying to get too much into the weeds with
all of it.
It's got a little bitcomplicated.
But essentially the state as awhole is redesigning the way
that foster care is delivered.
This has been rolling out forseveral years now.
Some regions in the state havealready transitioned, or in
either phase one or phase two ofthis kind of redesign process.
(26:05):
We are on the brink of it herein Houston.
We actually anticipated thatHouston would be the last region
, so we weren't really expectingit fully until 2029-ish, but
we're actually on the brink ofthis transition right now.
And so a lot of the work, a lotof the conversation we've been
having, some of the work thatwe've been doing has been with a
lot of stakeholders, acrossfrom DFPS to different agencies
(26:29):
and people like that, saying howdo we prepare for this?
Well, how's this going to changedelivery for foster care?
But essentially what it is thestate is essentially privatizing
an already somewhat privatizedfoster care system, if that
makes sense.
So the way on a local level,the way that foster care is
delivered, is right.
You have a state agency in DFPSand then locally there are DFPS
(26:51):
regions or regions, offices ofDFPS, and then you have lots of
different agencies that thencontract with DFPS to place kids
in foster care.
So for placement and casemanagement, it's like the people
you've heard of Arrow,depelchen Homes with Hope, pchas
or Presbyterian Children'sHomes there's 50 of them
(27:12):
probably, as an estimate here inHouston, lots of different
group homes.
They all contract.
What will happen is one leadagency will kind of take the
lead for placement and casemanagement in each individual
area.
So they're calling itcommunity-based care.
The idea is that each regionwill kind of take ownership of
(27:33):
their own system with placementof their kids and case
management of their kids.
The idea is really right.
A state organization is tryingto create standards and all of
these different things for allof these different places.
Midland is different thanHouston which is different than
San Antonio and East Texas, andso the idea is that we would,
(27:55):
through this type ofcommunity-based model, be able
to really look at eachindividual community and say,
okay, what is it that we needhere in houston?
What players, what assets, whatstruggles do we have here?
And then how do we start toaddress them as a community and
how do we keep houston kids here?
rather than moving them from allthese other different places.
How do we keep siblingstogether?
(28:15):
All of those types of thingsGot it, so it's a major overhaul
.
It's in my.
Everyone asked me like what doyou think about it?
What's your opinion, what'syour take?
It's complex, it's going to becomplicated and difficult,
because it's a huge shift, Iwould say.
The fear that I have is that,because we have many of the same
(28:36):
problems that are going to bethere either way, that we fall
into the same struggles thatwe've had for ages, there's a
very real temptation.
I think, that that could happenis one lead agency takes the
contract and then it justbecomes the same old thing, yeah
.
However, I do think thatthere's a lot of opportunity,
for it's supposed to becommunity based, so
(28:58):
collaboration is at its core.
If we really do take ownershipof this as a community and start
working together, we can createthese really great innovative
opportunities to change what'shappening and actually fix and
transform the system as we knowit, but it's going to be a lot
of work.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah, it sounds like a ton, like everything has to
shift.
And so when, do you know whenthey anticipate that process
being completed by?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
As of now, the agencies.
There's kind of a RFA or arequest for applications that's
currently open and it is likethis fall.
So I know that certainorganizations or agencies who
are kind of vying for thatcontract, for the lead agency
contract, have applied.
I don't know exactly how manyof them, I just know which ones
(29:51):
have, and then DFPS will be apart of kind of selecting or
entering into negotiations.
They say this fall Could beextended.
Who knows?
But it really is.
It's very imminent, and so ourcommunity is really just gearing
up for what's this going tolook like, how our kids and
family is going to be affected?
and then, how do we utilize thisin a way that actually does get
(30:13):
to system transformation?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
That's fascinating.
I mean, it's a really unique,it's an interesting concept that
people could maybe bandtogether.
I'm going to say regionally,but really it's smaller than
that, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, I do think, when you think about God's
timing for things, I startedthis organization not really
having a clue what I was doingor what I was getting into and
now kind of being on the brinkof this not to say that this is
the only reason why all thishappened but everyone in
different parts of the state whohave already gone through a
model, kind of some of thistransition they've said this
(30:49):
type of model really rises andfalls with a community's ability
to collaborate and worktogether.
Wow, and because there's beenthis kind of foundation that
we've really had a privilege andhonor to kind of build over
time, I do think we're set upvery well to be successful.
It's still going to take a lotof work.
It's still going to take a lotof humility from a lot of the
players involved and coming tothe table to solve these issues,
(31:12):
but I think because there hasbeen this foundation, not just
through us but by a lot oforganizations coming together
and figuring this out, I dothink we have a really good shot
to make it successful.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
That's really encouraging to hear that.
Let me shift gears a little bitand let's talk a little bit
about the preventative work thatyou guys do.
We've touched on thevulnerabilities and everything
you know when we serve women inour safe home.
We have adults in our safe homeand almost all the time they
have children.
They have children that havebeen.
Either they're with family,they're estranged or, worse,
(31:47):
they're in CPS.
What resources would you sayare available for families you
know maybe who are facing thepotential of CPS, taking away
their kids or having to come upagainst something like that?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, there's a couple of things that I think I
would point to there.
One we run a program called theResponse Network, and this
would be for someone who hassome level of interaction with
the system already.
So it's not far enough upstream, but it is a significant
resource.
A couple of years ago westarted an initiative called the
Response Network and so we workwith CPS workers primarily, but
also about 14 differentorganizations or agencies in
(32:24):
Houston who are caring forbiological families who have
interaction with the system, orkinship families, so relative
caregivers a grandma taking intheir grandkids, aunt and uncle,
things like that, or aged outyouth, so kind of those most
vulnerablenot as much foster and adoptive
families that tend to have theresources to get what they need,
although we do have those, fromtime to time, caseworkers who
(32:47):
are working with those familiesif they recognize a need,
whether it's for a tangible youknow, grandmother took on five
grandkids and needs beds forthem or bedding, something like
that or it could be for areferral, like they need a
housing referral, they needtrauma-informed counseling, they
need an extermination serviceor a house cleaning or something
like that.
(33:07):
They can fill out a form on ourwebsite and then, based on our
network where the family lives,we will then say, hey, let's
pair this family up with thischurch that's two minutes away
and they can step in.
The goal is for them to get theneed met right.
They need the thing or theservice, but the goal is to
offer relationship as well inthe midst of that.
(33:29):
And so, on the flip side of it,we train our churches.
Hey, if we come to you withthat need, there's a family two
minutes from your house that'sexperiencing XYZ.
Can you step in and providethis, but then offer to continue
walking?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
with that family.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
It's been largely successful.
It's churches that want to help.
They just don't know where theneeds are.
And then families that are like, yeah, I would be willing to
get help from a church, and so Idon't know the exact number,
but a large percentage of theneeds that are coming in are for
biological families that getput in by investigators.
So a family is experiencingsome sort of neglect or has a
(34:04):
report, and the investigatorsteps in and says this is
something that this family doesnot.
the kidneys not need to beremoved, but they do need help
and so they'll bring that to usand we're able to then use our
network to get those needs metand hopefully close the case so
that they don't have to have anymore interaction with the child
welfare system.
So that's one way, if they doalready have some interaction,
(34:27):
that hopefully their caseworkercan help them get connected to
the right resources through thatprogram.
Another thing I would say isthat there are a few agencies
around the city who do voluntaryplacements and that are very
open.
They're not necessarily with aremoval a court-ordered removal,
I know Loving Houston is one.
Casa de Esperanza is one.
(34:48):
Boys and Girls Country is moreof a residential cottage home in
Hockley that take voluntaryplacements from families.
So they are working with thebiological family to help them
to become restored.
But the family can also say,hey, can you care for my child
while I get better and we don'thave to go through a
court-ordered, you know, judge.
(35:09):
All that involvement and thosecan be really successful too.
My caveat with that is just,you know, making sure that there
are restorative servicesinvolved with it and not just
like, hey, we can take your kid,you know, and foster parents or
you know, the people who arecaring for those kids have to
also be very on board with beingthe cheerleader for the
biological family and makingsure that their heart is for
(35:32):
family restoration, but thoseservices are also available.
There's a few agencies here inHouston that do that type of
work.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
That's amazing.
That's so good to hear.
Now, if they wanted the firstresource, that's through your
website that you have familiesmaybe listening or maybe
somebody shares this podcast.
Where do they go to fill outthat form?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, there's a form on pretty much every page on our
website.
So, if you go to rivers, outthat form.
Yeah, there's a form on prettymuch every page on our website.
So if you go toriversideprojectorg, there is a
contact form.
And it can be hey, I want tomobilize my church.
Or hey, I just want to learnmore.
Or hey, I'm looking for aresource for a family that I
know.
If they fill that out, then itwill get to the appropriate
person on our team and then wecan just reach out and find out
(36:14):
a little bit more about whatthey're looking for.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Awesome.
Yeah Well, let's wrap up withthis.
Do you have any kind oftestimonial, or maybe?
Yes, I hate to use the wordsuccess story, I really don't
even like that, but somethinglike that, like you know where
you've seen the impact of yourwork in a person's life.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, there are a few .
There's just through what Imentioned before on our response
network, we've gotten to seethese beautiful stories of not a
success story from ourorganization necessarily because
we're not typically the onesmeeting the needs it really is
providing kind of a connection.
Here's a need and here'ssomebody who can meet it and we
can put it together.
One of them in particular wejust released a mini documentary
(36:59):
called as One, and it tellsfour specific stories of
collaboration that leads tofamily flourishing.
One of those is from one of ourchurch partners at Sojourn,
southside.
Typically, what happens is,like I said a caseworker brings
a need to us and then we go to achurch.
This actually came from thechurch.
They had met some needs forsome families in their community
and then they said, hey,there's actually a family that
(37:21):
we are aware of here.
They're not involved with thefoster care system currently,
but we want to be able to helpthem.
They brought us the need andsaid these are the things that
this family needs Can you helpus to meet them.
And then we were able to connectum.
This family in particular was afamily who had been previously
homeless.
It was a mother of five Um, andshe had been homeless, was able
(37:42):
to secure an apartment but hadnothing in it.
Um, she, I think she had likeone couch and that was it.
Everyone was sleeping on thesame couch.
Um, and so we, because we havea partnership with the Houston
Furniture Bank.
We were then able to connecther with the Houston Furniture
Bank and then a couple of othersituations and different
resources, but again the churchwas able to provide that.
(38:03):
We were saying here's aconnection.
They were able to come with thefamily to the Houston Furniture
Bank to get everything that sheneeded and now they're still
walking with that family overtime.
Again, it's the things that aregetting.
The needs are getting met.
The tangible needs are veryimportant, yeah, but the
relationship is still there.
Yeah, that church was able towalk alongside, find resources
(38:24):
quickly rather than going tolike a you know 411 helpline
like where do we find all thisstuff?
Yeah, you know, we can makethose connections happen and I
think it's really beautiful, um,when those types of things
happen and then families areable to find stability.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, Just working together finding ways to work
together.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Kids are going to remember right.
This is when we got a kitchentable.
Like you know, those aremarkers in their memory.
So it's such an amazingopportunity for that church to
just establish that relationshipand hopefully demonstrate like
the tangible love of the Fatheryou know, Well, Amber, we could
(39:01):
talk all day.
There's so many things wehaven't covered.
I know that you have inside ofyou that need to be shared.
Do you think you want to leaveanything with our listeners?
That something important wehaven't touched on or talked
about?
Speaker 2 (39:16):
our listeners that something important we haven't
touched on or talked about.
I mean, the only thing that Iwould say is I do think that
every person in our city has aplace along the river, whether
that is with a traffickingorganization or working with a
poverty organization, or maybeit's not even working with an
organization at all.
It's just kind of giving reallypraying for the Lord to give us
eyes to see what's happening inour neighborhoods or bringing
(39:37):
somebody who is vulnerable inour midst into our purview and
being able to have the courageto respond.
I think just asking the questionand being willing to say I have
something to give.
It's going to be different forevery person but we always say
everyone can do something.
We just don't all need to dothe same thing, and so really
(40:00):
just thinking through, what isit that I have to give, and then
whatever that thing that comesto mind, or that the.
Lord brings, just having thecourage to step forward with it
and learn, connect, get involved, whether that's through your
church or through anorganization, or just through
your neighborhood, it's alwaysworth it.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Thank you, that's amazing.
Well, amber, it's been apleasure to have you.
Thanks for having me.
I hope you'll be on our showagain, and if anybody wants to
connect with you, it'sRiversideProjectorg.
Well, you guys go and check herout and if you haven't already,
like and subscribe to thispodcast, share with a.
Welcome back to the Elijah Rising podcast.
My name is Micah and today I'mjoined by Amber Knowles, founder
of the Riverside Project.
Amber, you've been with usbefore.
We're so glad to have you back.
Thanks for having me.
It's great to be back.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about yourself?
You have a fantastic history.
You were a pediatric nurse andyou did some other work in the
(00:22):
healthcare field before youstarted this, so why don't you
tell us a little bit aboutyourself?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Sure, well, I started out, I would say, kind of my
first interaction with fostercare was as a nurse practitioner
.
So I worked in pediatric,community health and
school-based healthcare and Ihad patients that came in who
were either in foster placementsor just biological families
that were really vulnerable, andso through that experience
started learning just a littlebit kind of a disconnected view
(00:49):
but started seeing thecomplexities that some of these
families were facing and so andalso recognizing the complexity
of their medical needs andbehavioral health needs and the
referrals that they needed andjust all the things that they
were navigating, and so that waskind of my first interaction
with the foster care space.
And then my husband and Ibecame foster parents back in
(01:09):
2014.
We started the process in 2014,became licensed and then our
very first placement was in 2015, which ended up being the
placement of our now adopted son.
It was our first placement.
He never left and which is notnormally the case and then since
then had another biologicalkiddo and then the brother of
(01:30):
our adopted son came to us veryunexpectedly in 2018.
So, of course, the personalexperience of working in the
foster care space really gave usthis front row seat to some of
these gaps in the system and,just through a lot of different
circumstances, the Lord kind ofput this in front of me and
(01:51):
really wanted to see how do weactually move from.
The foster care system isbroken and it always will be to.
There are some very real, veryfelt gaps within this child
welfare system, but there reallyare solutions out there that we
can work with.
But we have to figure out howto work as organizations and
churches and different peopleall doing it together instead of
(02:12):
doing it kind of separated andsiloed.
And so in 2018, we started theorganization and we've been
doing lots of different thingssince then.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
That's an incredible story.
I didn't realize that yourkiddos were brothers.
It's really special.
So last time you were with uswe talked a little bit about,
you know, the vulnerabilities ofchildren who are aging out of
the foster care system and howthat makes them vulnerable to
trafficking.
But today we wanted to talk alittle bit kind of more focusing
on the Riverside Project, whatyou guys do, who your clients
(02:45):
are.
So do you mind sharing with ourlisteners just our recap what
do you guys do at the RiversideProject?
And maybe, if you could add,why did you found it?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Sure, yeah, I think the last time I was here we may
have still been operating underFostering Family was our actual
legal name.
It's still, technically, is ourlegal name, and now Riverside
Project.
We rebranded a couple of yearsago really, because the
Riverside Project was the namethat we gave to our church
mobilization effort.
Once we started that program,we called it the Riverside
(03:15):
Project and it came from thisanalogy of you know, if you were
and two of your friends werewalking down the side of the
river and you see kids andfamilies in the water.
One person jumps in.
One person sees there's awaterfall downstream.
We have to do something aboutthis.
So one person runs that way andthen one person starts thinking
well, you know what's happeningupstream, why are these kids and
families in the water in thefirst place?
(03:35):
And so they go in a completelydifferent direction, but they're
all attacking the same problem.
And so we use this analogy thatcame from a book by Jason
Johnson, who works in this space, and this analogy really gave
people handles for attackingthis complex issue of foster
care.
And so, because it really helpspeople to understand it a
(03:58):
little bit better, we then kindof rebranded to become the
Riverside Project completely, tobecome the Riverside Project
completely.
And so we say our missionstatement at the Riverside
Project is that we are acollaborative network of
organizations and passionatepeople who are all working
together to transform the fostercare system in Houston.
And the way that we kind ofcommunicate what we do, it's a
little bit a little difficult tocommunicate because we're not
(04:19):
we don't provide direct servicesto families for the most part,
and so that sometimes is alittle bit difficult for people
when they're saying, hey, whatis it that you do every day?
We work primarily in twodifferent arms.
One is system transformation,so we develop collaborative and
innovative strategies within thesystem to solve some of these
(04:40):
problems, to fill in some ofthose gaps.
So we work with CPS, we workwith agencies, we work with
group homes and supervisedindependent living facilities,
really sometimes asking thequestions of what is the problem
that you're experiencing, thatwe're hearing from everyone and
then how can we come up with acreative solution that helps us
to do this work better?
Essentially, in terms of theriver, it's how do we actually
(05:02):
get kids and families to theside faster and more efficiently
?
The other side of the work thatwe do is really church and
community mobilization.
So, again in terms of the river,how do we, once the kids do get
out of the water, how do wekeep them there in the community
so that they don't fall backinto involvement with the system
?
And so through that, we have ateam of people church
(05:25):
mobilization specialists andcommunity resource people,
coordinators who really help tomobilize the church and
community partners to get kidsand families and keep them out
of the water.
That's great.
Yeah, it looks like a lot ofdifferent things sometimes, but
it's really coming at the ideathat one single organization
(05:45):
cannot fix this problem.
We all have to be in the rightplace with the right tools.
And then we actually have a shotat making change in this space.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I love that you talked about systems change, so
that's so fascinating.
We'll touch on that later,don't let me forget.
I want to make sure that youanswer some of those questions
around what that looks like.
Don't let me forget, I want tomake sure that you answer some
of those questions around whatthat looks like.
You know, I've heard you saybefore that you know kids and
families in the river right, andso I think there's, you know,
(06:16):
some misconceptions around.
Oh, we just want to separatethe kids and make sure the kids
are safe and kind of disregardthe family unit and make sure
the kids are safe and kind ofdisregard the family unit.
Would you speak to that andmaybe some other misconceptions
that we kind of, as society,hold around the foster care
system?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, I think that's really important because the
public image, as you also, I'msure, interact with just within
the trafficking space, thosemisconceptions change the way
people view it and theirwillingness to get involved in
that work right.
And so, yeah, one of the thingsthat we say even going back to
that river analogy, what we saya lot in just conversations that
(06:51):
we're having about this is thatwhen we talk about going
upstream and we talk aboutfiguring out why kids and
families are in the water andwhy they are vulnerable, what we
often mostly don't see arereally stable families just
throwing their kids into thewater.
It's just, yes, abuse happensand horrendous abuse does happen
.
100% of those things do happen,but for the most part, it's
(07:13):
vulnerable families who are inthe water and sometimes
generations of families who havebeen in the water and maybe
have never known or, if not fora very long time, have known
what it's like to live on theside, and maybe they don't have
the relationships or theresources or the stability to
find their way out, and sothat's a very real um.
I think misconception thatpeople have is that foster care
(07:35):
means kids and families are inthe water because parents don't
love them, parents are bad um,or parents, you know, don't love
their children, and that's justnot the case most of the time.
And so just recognizing thatstarts to build some compassion
for what's actually happening.
Why are kids and families inthis situation?
And then, in terms of what wedo as a system, it's having the
(07:59):
discernment to know when we'relooking at a kid or a family, is
this a situation where we canget the family out together?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
which is ideal?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Or is this a family where, if nothing, if we don't
get the kid out, the family'sgonna like they will drown.
They may all drown, and that'sa really when you talk about CPS
and the misconceptions there.
It's a very hard job to be ableto discern that and get the kid
and the family out as well as wecan as a unit, while keeping
(08:30):
everybody safe.
So I think there's a lot therethat we have to kind of, you
know, shift in our mindset and alot of discernment that we have
to utilize with thosesituations too.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, and we see, I mean we probably our listeners
for the most part know this.
But you know, if you're talkingabout the river, I feel like
even downstream from that yousee trafficking situations or
just self-exploitation, survival, sex, that kind of thing.
Absolutely, and I'm surethere's other forks of the river
that go different places.
But so can you talk a littlebit about?
(09:05):
When you're saying vulnerablefamilies, what are you
referencing?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, the way we are speaking of it.
So foster care is a system wewould say is kind of midstream
of this river.
There are things upstream likepoverty, addiction, crisis,
pregnancy, lack of education,all these things that are
happening upstream that thenfunnel them down into the foster
care system.
So we would say we primarily atthis point, work on the
midstream of the river, from thepoint at which CPS gets
(09:33):
involved so kind of upstream ofthe midstream all the way down
to when a kid ages out of thefoster care system, which then
gets them kind of into this.
What we would say is downstream.
So, yes, kids who age out, oreven kids who, or families who
interact with the foster caresystem and then do not find the
support and stability that theyneed.
That also includes the kid whohas been adopted into a family
(09:54):
and then put back into thesystem or a kid who is adopted
into a family that's really notmeeting their needs
appropriately and still dealingwith the traumatic experiences
that they experience and thatwill then, you know, continue to
keep this cycle going,essentially.
And so, yeah, I thinkvulnerable, I would say, is kind
(10:18):
of anyone interacting, whetherthey're interacting with the
foster care system or not.
Vulnerable means they're,they're not thriving right
they're not rooted in acommunity um and they're not
experiencing health andwholeness I'm sure there's a lot
who fall into that scenario.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I mean, there's a lot of different factors, right?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I can think of dozens right, whether they have
involvement with the system ornot.
Yeah, there are many, many, manyvulnerable kids and families in
our city, but understanding howall those different factors and
social issues fit together andhow they interact, rather than
kind of this is poverty, this istrafficking, this is, you know,
incarceration, and we kind ofdeal with the issues as
(10:58):
individual problems and we misssometimes how does poverty
interact with foster care?
How does foster care theninteract with trafficking?
It's like the connection pieceof how one gets to the other.
I think sometimes we miss thatand we miss opportunities to
understand the problem in itsentirety, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
No, it totally makes sense.
We see that all the time intrafficking.
You know all of the riskfactors that you can think of
like the vulnerabilities are.
We see them all in trafficking.
You know you mentioned poverty,homelessness, lack of education
, lack of adequate adequate likehealthcare or access to medical
services, crisis pregnancyabuse, addiction, disease.
(11:40):
I mean.
You name it so many.
So we, we have the same viewthat you know it's not a one
organization or 50 organizations, anything, it's like the
community at large comingtogether.
So I would love to hear more umfrom you.
I don't know if you want totalk a little bit about how do
you see those pieces comingtogether with the work that you
(12:01):
guys do at the riverside project?
You talked about getting kindof churches engaged, getting
communities engaged.
How do you see those piecescoming together with the work
that you guys do at theRiverside Project?
You talked about getting kindof churches engaged, getting
communities engaged.
How do you try to bridge thosegaps for people?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, a lot of it is first, I think, starting out
with just helping them to learn.
So we say, hey, just let's haveconversations about what it is
that you see in your community.
Just let's have conversationsabout what it is that you see in
your community.
So, speaking specifically tochurches, the way that we come
alongside them, we know thatchurches in our community care
about these things.
I've never really met a churchthat would say like, yeah, we
(12:36):
just don't care, they're thechurch, hopefully they care,
right.
But the problem is more.
I don't understand this issue.
I don't understand what I haveto give here.
I don't want to hurt peopleunintentionally, and so what we
can do?
We say right off the bat we'renot the organization that you
just give money to, and then wego solve the problem because
theologically we don't believethat that's how things get
(12:57):
changed in our city.
We believe that in many ways thechurch is that vehicle for
redemption and so if we can thencome alongside and give tools
doesn't mean that every churchneeds to be an expert on all
things foster care but if we cansay we can be a guide for you,
we can help you understand whythese things are happening and
then really drill down into yourcontext as a church.
(13:19):
Who are your people?
How big is your church?
How do you operate?
Is it small groups, is it megachurch, is it Sunday school and
what languages do you speak?
What are your people alreadyexcited about?
How many foster families are inyour church.
It helps us to then comealongside them and say, okay,
here are some tools, here aresome things that you should know
(13:40):
, and then let's plug you into away that your church can get
more engaged and sometimesthat's them creating a program.
Many times it's not.
We always say it's.
It's not putting something onyour website, necessarily, it's
not creating this big budget.
Sometimes it's just hey, we'regoing to bring you a need in the
community that we get from aCPS worker that's two minutes
(14:01):
from your church.
When we do that.
Can you say yes and walkalongside that family?
Yeah, we can do that.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And sometimes it's connecting them to like hey,
there's a nonprofit down theroad that works in this space
and they run a foster closet.
How about we pair you togetherand you start working in tandem?
So it's not just connect allthe churches to us.
It's based on who you are andwhat you care about in this
space.
Let's find some ways for you toget involved, and we do that
for people too.
(14:28):
People will reach out and justsay, hey, I want to get involved
somewhere.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Where do you live?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
What are you passionate about?
What capacity do you have?
And here's a mentororganization.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Here's you know a place to volunteer.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Here's a way to you know if you're thinking about
fostering and adopting.
Here's some agencies to talk to.
A lot of what we do is justmaking connections and then
giving people some tools to dowhat they really would love to
do.
They just don't really know it.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, You're almost like a mentor to people Like let
me help you.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
You're a mentor, You're a consultant, You're you
know it's like all those things.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Let me help you get engaged in this issue.
Let us just let's just connectthe dots for you.
That's good, yeah, that'sreally good Like a guide.
So let's circle back, cause youtalked about systematic change.
Systems change, right,organizational.
If you will think about it inthat measure, what are some gaps
or some places that you see,maybe in the welfare system?
Or what have you that reallyneed maybe updating?
(15:25):
Or you see, man, these problemsare solvable, like you
mentioned earlier.
Do you see any themes that arekind of coming to the?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
forefront of your mind in this realm of service.
Yes, let me think of all ofthem.
No, there's a lot, I think,because it's such a complex
problem and it has so manydifferent facets.
Right, you're talkingbiological families and their
needs to keep families together,which is absolutely a priority.
If we're ever to kind of likefix foster care, it doesn't
(15:57):
start by just doing a bigcampaign for more foster parents
, and sometimes we have to fightagainst that idea.
It's not that we don't wantpeople to become foster parents
Absolutely we do.
We care about foster care andsee the need for it, and
adoption too.
We also understand that if thisissue is going to be tackled,
we have to try to keep familiestogether in the first place.
(16:18):
It's that upstream aspect of it,because we see downstream the
things that happen and thetrauma that happens.
I see it in my home, I see itwith my kids.
I know what happens when thosethings don't work out the way
that they should and when afamily can't stay together, and
it's a very real thing and apart of the conversation that
they should.
And when a family can't staytogether, um, and it's a very
real thing and a part of theconversation that we have to be
(16:41):
having, and so it it's difficultbecause there's so many aspects
that need to be fixed all atonce, um.
But in addition to that I wouldsay you know, the mental health
aspect is a big one.
The need for really good, solid, trauma-informed,
attachment-focused behavioralhealth and mental health
(17:03):
resources is unfortunately kindof lacking, even in a city like
Houston.
There are lots of services outthere, but, as you would
probably agree with in thetrafficking space, the things
that are needed they have to berelationship-based, because the
trauma that happens in thesespaces is so relational and so
(17:23):
the ability to trust isfractured, the ability to
connect is fractured to familyor to a grandmother and be
successful in their learning andin just in life, because
they're still dealing with a lotof those ruptured relationships
(17:44):
.
And so that's one that we talka lot about.
It's a conversation we'rehaving with a lot of
stakeholders and they believethat too.
We're all kind of recognizingthe need for this but still
trying to figure out.
You know there's money involved,like there's someone has to pay
for that, so there's moneyinvolved, like there's someone
has to pay for that, so it'svery complex, and so those types
of things are a really big dealand we're trying to come up
(18:06):
with some more innovative waysto work on those things.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's fantastic.
I mean it's at the basis, the,the foundation, rather, of
everything that you want tobuild upon that trust, that
place of trust, feeling like I'msafe, I can let down my guard,
I can, and then learning rightand then like new behaviors, new
patterns, new relationshipseven are being able to formed
(18:32):
out of that.
So, yeah, we absolutely seethat in, um, I mean in the
trafficking, the safe home thatwe run, yeah, and then we're
dealing, we're serving women intheir adulthood who maybe have a
decade of this in their past.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Right, so it can, it can really impact them just the
rest of your life, every littlefactor you know yeah, and I mean
I think it also impacts theability, the way that it kind of
affects generations after that.
Yeah, absolutely, when moms ormoms that you see in the
restoration home who have beenin these exploitive
(19:06):
circumstances and then they'realso trying to parent their
children, those things influenceone another and the trauma that
the kid then experiences andthe just instability of the home
.
When a mom is still dealingwith that, it's hard for them to
navigate and it's hard tosometimes find the resources
that are actually going to beeffective in those spaces.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Absolutely.
And even though so much hasbeen done and I can only speak
for really, the anti-traffickingspace, so much work has been
done to like build homes andlaunch this program, in that
program, it still feels like inthat crisis moment it's sorely
lacking.
In that emergency moment we arelike, yeah, always scrambling
(19:47):
to find the right resources forthe individual because they have
unique needs, right.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So um, I'm sure you guys find the same thing oh yeah
, and I think it goes back tothe funding conversation as well
Like we keep saying we needanother program and then we need
to.
We see it a lot in foster care.
Right it's.
We have a program for ateenager in foster care who
doesn't have a family, so wecreate a group home.
Well, then the kid ages out ofthe group home and they're still
not, you know, restored.
(20:13):
Right, they haven't gotten theright kind of treatment, or they
just they haven't.
They're still not able to besuccessful on their own.
So we create a supervisedindependent living facility,
yeah.
Then they start another program, right, yeah.
And then it's like, well, whathappens when they're 23 or 24?
And now they have to leave that?
And then we wonder why they endup incarcerated.
Yeah, because we go fromprogram to program to program,
what we see is that what'ssometimes lacking?
(20:36):
All of those programs cost money, and I think often we're like
there's another problem, throwmore money at it and absolutely
we have to have the funding tokeep these things going.
But the currency we havestarted saying a lot lately is
the currency in the space isrelationships.
If these programs are not, then, helping kids and young adults
to find and moms, biologicalfamilies to find relationships
(20:59):
that are safe and stable andloving and secure and can help
them move into stability, thenthe program's ineffective.
It all comes down to whether ornot these programs are helping
them to access safe and stablerelationships, and that is
really really hard.
You know who provides thosethings.
How can one organizationprovide the type of relational
(21:22):
support through a traumaticexperience and then keep doing
it for more than a day, right?
It's just a lot to take on, andso we have to be really
innovative, I think, in the waythat we engage the church the
way that we engage the community, to be those and to see what's
happening in these spaces and bea friend right To offer that
(21:44):
type of relationship.
They're not going to provideall the mental health resources
right, but people can be, canprovide relationships in a
really healing way.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, and that's something that we see as a key
for women who, you know, to endrecidivism, to give them a
successful launch, outside ofour program.
I mean, I think it all comesdown to community healthy,
stable, godly, you know,restorative community.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So much of that healing just happens around
people and like those deeprelationships that are formed,
those connective bonds, and thenyou see you, know when families
or these women who come out ofan exploitive situation and
they're trying to find thatcommunity, so often the trauma
keeps them from it the verything that they need, they
isolate.
(22:33):
We see it with foster andadoptive families too.
When you're in the trenches andlife is crazy and you're trying
to deal with these, you knowthe behaviors of the child in
your home and the struggles thatthey have.
Our tendency in those moments,for whatever reason, is to
isolate ourselves, away fromcommunity.
And so, again, it's helping thechurch to be a loving presence,
even in those moments wherethey feel like they need to
(22:53):
isolate, to stay present.
Um, it's really hard to to dothat when you're in the midst of
it.
You know, to access communityand to want people involved, um,
we just kind of start to startto move away from each other
yeah, well, it takes a lot ofvulnerability.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, yeah, and a lot of not putting on.
You know, yeah, face I can, Ican handle it and also like
trusting other people that theycan handle it right.
They can, they're gonna stepinto that mess or what have you,
and they can support you in ityeah, absolutely well, you have
a lot.
Um, I just really commend youbecause I think what you guys
are doing with the church isit's something that I think both
(23:32):
parties are hungry for.
The church wants to help andyou guys need people.
You you know everyone obviouslyin society, but y'all
specifically need people to help.
But it's a big job what youhave in front of you.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And unfortunately the reputation of the church has
become in many ways not a placewhere people find safety, and I
think there's something toreally mourn and lament in that
that people are not oftenfinding safety and stability and
wholeness by being a part ofthe church.
(24:10):
I do think it is happening.
Yeah, hey, let's reallyprioritize becoming a church
where people feel like they canfind real, not just the
gospel-centered community, butreally be able to carry people's
(24:30):
burdens and needs.
And, unfortunately, whetherit's through just distraction or
I don't really, can't evenreally put my finger on what it
is exactly.
But in our culture we've kindof shifted away from discipling
our people to get in the water.
People don't.
We say often.
We don't fish people out of thewater, we have to get in.
That's what Jesus did.
He didn't stay in heaven, heactually entered into our world
(24:53):
and therefore we can follow himthere, but it's uncomfortable
and it's messy and we don'talways know what to say or what
to do, but I do think thatthere's a a really a big need
for the church to to think moredeeply about how we're
discipling our people into hardthings rather than teaching our
people to insulate.
(25:13):
I love the world yeah, um.
It's the only way that thechurch really becomes the type
of place where people heal.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
And I love that so I could.
We can talk all day long onthat.
Maybe next time.
I love, I love that so much.
I think that's spot on.
Yes, we're raising disciplesright, we're not not attendees.
So you had mentioned that therewere some developments, some
changes coming to the fostercare system statewide.
(25:42):
Would you kind of walk usthrough what that looks like?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Sure, it's trying to get too much into the weeds with
all of it.
It's got a little bitcomplicated.
But essentially the state as awhole is redesigning the way
that foster care is delivered.
This has been rolling out forseveral years now.
Some regions in the state havealready transitioned, or in
either phase one or phase two ofthis kind of redesign process.
(26:05):
We are on the brink of it herein Houston.
We actually anticipated thatHouston would be the last region
, so we weren't really expectingit fully until 2029-ish, but
we're actually on the brink ofthis transition right now.
And so a lot of the work, a lotof the conversation we've been
having, some of the work thatwe've been doing has been with a
lot of stakeholders, acrossfrom DFPS to different agencies
(26:29):
and people like that, saying howdo we prepare for this?
Well, how's this going to changedelivery for foster care?
But essentially what it is thestate is essentially privatizing
an already somewhat privatizedfoster care system, if that
makes sense.
So the way on a local level,the way that foster care is
delivered, is right.
You have a state agency in DFPSand then locally there are DFPS
(26:51):
regions or regions, offices ofDFPS, and then you have lots of
different agencies that thencontract with DFPS to place kids
in foster care.
So for placement and casemanagement, it's like the people
you've heard of Arrow,depelchen Homes with Hope, pchas
or Presbyterian Children'sHomes there's 50 of them
(27:12):
probably, as an estimate here inHouston, lots of different
group homes.
They all contract.
What will happen is one leadagency will kind of take the
lead for placement and casemanagement in each individual
area.
So they're calling itcommunity-based care.
The idea is that each regionwill kind of take ownership of
(27:33):
their own system with placementof their kids and case
management of their kids.
The idea is really right.
A state organization is tryingto create standards and all of
these different things for allof these different places.
Midland is different thanHouston which is different than
San Antonio and East Texas, andso the idea is that we would,
(27:55):
through this type ofcommunity-based model, be able
to really look at eachindividual community and say,
okay, what is it that we needhere in houston?
What players, what assets, whatstruggles do we have here?
And then how do we start toaddress them as a community and
how do we keep houston kids here?
rather than moving them from allthese other different places.
How do we keep siblingstogether?
(28:15):
All of those types of thingsGot it, so it's a major overhaul
.
It's in my.
Everyone asked me like what doyou think about it?
What's your opinion, what'syour take?
It's complex, it's going to becomplicated and difficult,
because it's a huge shift, Iwould say.
The fear that I have is that,because we have many of the same
(28:36):
problems that are going to bethere either way, that we fall
into the same struggles thatwe've had for ages, there's a
very real temptation.
I think, that that could happenis one lead agency takes the
contract and then it justbecomes the same old thing, yeah
.
However, I do think thatthere's a lot of opportunity,
for it's supposed to becommunity based, so
(28:58):
collaboration is at its core.
If we really do take ownershipof this as a community and start
working together, we can createthese really great innovative
opportunities to change what'shappening and actually fix and
transform the system as we knowit, but it's going to be a lot
of work.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah, it sounds like a ton, like everything has to
shift.
And so when, do you know whenthey anticipate that process
being completed by?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
As of now, the agencies.
There's kind of a RFA or arequest for applications that's
currently open and it is likethis fall.
So I know that certainorganizations or agencies who
are kind of vying for thatcontract, for the lead agency
contract, have applied.
I don't know exactly how manyof them, I just know which ones
(29:51):
have, and then DFPS will be apart of kind of selecting or
entering into negotiations.
They say this fall Could beextended.
Who knows?
But it really is.
It's very imminent, and so ourcommunity is really just gearing
up for what's this going tolook like, how our kids and
family is going to be affected?
and then, how do we utilize thisin a way that actually does get
(30:13):
to system transformation?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
That's fascinating.
I mean, it's a really unique,it's an interesting concept that
people could maybe bandtogether.
I'm going to say regionally,but really it's smaller than
that, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, I do think, when you think about God's
timing for things, I startedthis organization not really
having a clue what I was doingor what I was getting into and
now kind of being on the brinkof this not to say that this is
the only reason why all thishappened but everyone in
different parts of the state whohave already gone through a
model, kind of some of thistransition they've said this
(30:49):
type of model really rises andfalls with a community's ability
to collaborate and worktogether.
Wow, and because there's beenthis kind of foundation that
we've really had a privilege andhonor to kind of build over
time, I do think we're set upvery well to be successful.
It's still going to take a lotof work.
It's still going to take a lotof humility from a lot of the
players involved and coming tothe table to solve these issues,
(31:12):
but I think because there hasbeen this foundation, not just
through us but by a lot oforganizations coming together
and figuring this out, I dothink we have a really good shot
to make it successful.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
That's really encouraging to hear that.
Let me shift gears a little bitand let's talk a little bit
about the preventative work thatyou guys do.
We've touched on thevulnerabilities and everything
you know when we serve women inour safe home.
We have adults in our safe homeand almost all the time they
have children.
They have children that havebeen.
Either they're with family,they're estranged or, worse,
(31:47):
they're in CPS.
What resources would you sayare available for families you
know maybe who are facing thepotential of CPS, taking away
their kids or having to come upagainst something like that?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, there's a couple of things that I think I
would point to there.
One we run a program called theResponse Network, and this
would be for someone who hassome level of interaction with
the system already.
So it's not far enough upstream, but it is a significant
resource.
A couple of years ago westarted an initiative called the
Response Network and so we workwith CPS workers primarily, but
also about 14 differentorganizations or agencies in
(32:24):
Houston who are caring forbiological families who have
interaction with the system, orkinship families, so relative
caregivers a grandma taking intheir grandkids, aunt and uncle,
things like that, or aged outyouth, so kind of those most
vulnerablenot as much foster and adoptive
families that tend to have theresources to get what they need,
although we do have those, fromtime to time, caseworkers who
(32:47):
are working with those familiesif they recognize a need,
whether it's for a tangible youknow, grandmother took on five
grandkids and needs beds forthem or bedding, something like
that or it could be for areferral, like they need a
housing referral, they needtrauma-informed counseling, they
need an extermination serviceor a house cleaning or something
like that.
(33:07):
They can fill out a form on ourwebsite and then, based on our
network where the family lives,we will then say, hey, let's
pair this family up with thischurch that's two minutes away
and they can step in.
The goal is for them to get theneed met right.
They need the thing or theservice, but the goal is to
offer relationship as well inthe midst of that.
(33:29):
And so, on the flip side of it,we train our churches.
Hey, if we come to you withthat need, there's a family two
minutes from your house that'sexperiencing XYZ.
Can you step in and providethis, but then offer to continue
walking?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
with that family.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
It's been largely successful.
It's churches that want to help.
They just don't know where theneeds are.
And then families that are like, yeah, I would be willing to
get help from a church, and so Idon't know the exact number,
but a large percentage of theneeds that are coming in are for
biological families that getput in by investigators.
So a family is experiencingsome sort of neglect or has a
(34:04):
report, and the investigatorsteps in and says this is
something that this family doesnot.
the kidneys not need to beremoved, but they do need help
and so they'll bring that to usand we're able to then use our
network to get those needs metand hopefully close the case so
that they don't have to have anymore interaction with the child
welfare system.
So that's one way, if they doalready have some interaction,
(34:27):
that hopefully their caseworkercan help them get connected to
the right resources through thatprogram.
Another thing I would say isthat there are a few agencies
around the city who do voluntaryplacements and that are very
open.
They're not necessarily with aremoval a court-ordered removal,
I know Loving Houston is one.
Casa de Esperanza is one.
(34:48):
Boys and Girls Country is moreof a residential cottage home in
Hockley that take voluntaryplacements from families.
So they are working with thebiological family to help them
to become restored.
But the family can also say,hey, can you care for my child
while I get better and we don'thave to go through a
court-ordered, you know, judge.
(35:09):
All that involvement and thosecan be really successful too.
My caveat with that is just,you know, making sure that there
are restorative servicesinvolved with it and not just
like, hey, we can take your kid,you know, and foster parents or
you know, the people who arecaring for those kids have to
also be very on board with beingthe cheerleader for the
biological family and makingsure that their heart is for
(35:32):
family restoration, but thoseservices are also available.
There's a few agencies here inHouston that do that type of
work.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
That's amazing.
That's so good to hear.
Now, if they wanted the firstresource, that's through your
website that you have familiesmaybe listening or maybe
somebody shares this podcast.
Where do they go to fill outthat form?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, there's a form on pretty much every page on our
website.
So, if you go to rivers, outthat form.
Yeah, there's a form on prettymuch every page on our website.
So if you go toriversideprojectorg, there is a
contact form.
And it can be hey, I want tomobilize my church.
Or hey, I just want to learnmore.
Or hey, I'm looking for aresource for a family that I
know.
If they fill that out, then itwill get to the appropriate
person on our team and then wecan just reach out and find out
(36:14):
a little bit more about whatthey're looking for.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Awesome.
Yeah Well, let's wrap up withthis.
Do you have any kind oftestimonial, or maybe?
Yes, I hate to use the wordsuccess story, I really don't
even like that, but somethinglike that, like you know where
you've seen the impact of yourwork in a person's life.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, there are a few .
There's just through what Imentioned before on our response
network, we've gotten to seethese beautiful stories of not a
success story from ourorganization necessarily because
we're not typically the onesmeeting the needs it really is
providing kind of a connection.
Here's a need and here'ssomebody who can meet it and we
can put it together.
One of them in particular wejust released a mini documentary
(36:59):
called as One, and it tellsfour specific stories of
collaboration that leads tofamily flourishing.
One of those is from one of ourchurch partners at Sojourn,
southside.
Typically, what happens is,like I said a caseworker brings
a need to us and then we go to achurch.
This actually came from thechurch.
They had met some needs forsome families in their community
and then they said, hey,there's actually a family that
(37:21):
we are aware of here.
They're not involved with thefoster care system currently,
but we want to be able to helpthem.
They brought us the need andsaid these are the things that
this family needs Can you helpus to meet them.
And then we were able to connectum.
This family in particular was afamily who had been previously
homeless.
It was a mother of five Um, andshe had been homeless, was able
(37:42):
to secure an apartment but hadnothing in it.
Um, she, I think she had likeone couch and that was it.
Everyone was sleeping on thesame couch.
Um, and so we, because we havea partnership with the Houston
Furniture Bank.
We were then able to connecther with the Houston Furniture
Bank and then a couple of othersituations and different
resources, but again the churchwas able to provide that.
(38:03):
We were saying here's aconnection.
They were able to come with thefamily to the Houston Furniture
Bank to get everything that sheneeded and now they're still
walking with that family overtime.
Again, it's the things that aregetting.
The needs are getting met.
The tangible needs are veryimportant, yeah, but the
relationship is still there.
Yeah, that church was able towalk alongside, find resources
(38:24):
quickly rather than going tolike a you know 411 helpline
like where do we find all thisstuff?
Yeah, you know, we can makethose connections happen and I
think it's really beautiful, um,when those types of things
happen and then families areable to find stability.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, Just working together finding ways to work
together.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Kids are going to remember right.
This is when we got a kitchentable.
Like you know, those aremarkers in their memory.
So it's such an amazingopportunity for that church to
just establish that relationshipand hopefully demonstrate like
the tangible love of the Fatheryou know, Well, Amber, we could
(39:01):
talk all day.
There's so many things wehaven't covered.
I know that you have inside ofyou that need to be shared.
Do you think you want to leaveanything with our listeners?
That something important wehaven't touched on or talked
about?
Speaker 2 (39:16):
our listeners that something important we haven't
touched on or talked about.
I mean, the only thing that Iwould say is I do think that
every person in our city has aplace along the river, whether
that is with a traffickingorganization or working with a
poverty organization, or maybeit's not even working with an
organization at all.
It's just kind of giving reallypraying for the Lord to give us
eyes to see what's happening inour neighborhoods or bringing
(39:37):
somebody who is vulnerable inour midst into our purview and
being able to have the courageto respond.
I think just asking the questionand being willing to say I have
something to give.
It's going to be different forevery person but we always say
everyone can do something.
We just don't all need to dothe same thing, and so really
(40:00):
just thinking through, what isit that I have to give, and then
whatever that thing that comesto mind, or that the.
Lord brings, just having thecourage to step forward with it
and learn, connect, get involved, whether that's through your
church or through anorganization, or just through
your neighborhood, it's alwaysworth it.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Thank you, that's amazing.
Well, amber, it's been apleasure to have you.
Thanks for having me.
I hope you'll be on our showagain, and if anybody wants to
connect with you, it'sRiversideProjectorg.
Well, you guys go and check herout and if you haven't already,
like and subscribe to thispodcast, share with a.
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