What does recovery and restoration look like after addiction and trafficking?
This is the third and final episode in this series with Jessica Gobble, Elijah Rising’s Recovery Specialist. In this episode, Jessica talks about the deep shame embedded in people who have experienced addiction and trafficking, as well as the hope and restoration available to them.
Jessica also explains:
- Recovery is not linear; relapse is often part of recovery
- There is so much shame deeply embedded in people who have experienced trafficking and addiction, but we want them to experience complete freedom from shame
- Full restoration comes from Jesus
“Addiction is cunning, baffling, and powerful. But there is One that holds all power.”
-Alcoholics Anonymous
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Elijah Rising podcast.
Today we are wrapping up ourseries on drug trends, addiction
and recovery in theanti-trafficking space, and I
have with me the famous,wonderful Jessica Gobble, our
Elijah Rising recoveryspecialist.
Jessica, thank you so much forjoining us for this series.
I can't wait to get into thetopic today.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thanks, micah, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
So if you haven't listened, we have two episodes
that we've already covered withJessica.
Again, this is our third andfinal.
If you've enjoyed thesepodcasts, again like, subscribe,
share with your friends.
We really want to reallypromote and advocate for the
integration of, you know,anti-trafficking and recovery,
(00:46):
addiction recovery, within thisspace, because it's such a
critical topic and I feel likewe don't, I think we don't talk
about it enough.
You know, it's not a topic thatyou naturally gravitate to when
you think, oh, we need to opena safe home or safe homes for,
you know, trafficked women.
Addiction sometimes is not partof that conversation, sadly.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Can I tell you about that?
Can I tell you about somethingthat happened this week.
I was looking at a periodicalit's like a forum, a discussion
forum for this periodical forprofessionals who who are in
addiction medicine and I noticedthat someone had asked about
addiction medicine as itpertains to reentry from the
(01:32):
prison system and I thought, oh,I'm glad that that topic is
coming up.
Let me look at other topicsthat have come up.
I wanted to see in the historyof this periodical, searching
through all the archives, howmany questions there had been
about trafficking survivors, andthere were none.
Wow, none, none.
So it addressed reentry fromthe prison system, it addressed
(01:53):
homelessness, but it addressedsexual abuse, but there was
nothing at all about humantrafficking, nothing about
sexual exploitation, nothing.
So nobody asking how do we besttreat with addiction medicine
(02:14):
survivors of trafficking amongthis huge national organization
of professionals?
That's incredible and I wasshocked.
But then I thought about it andit's really not that surprising
because very often it's nottalked about.
Even though addiction feedstrafficking and trafficking
feeds addiction.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Absolutely.
It's not talked about and wesee that almost 100% of the time
with the population that we'reserving.
That was so good actually.
Can you just explain what doyou mean by that?
What do you mean by addictionfeeds trafficking, trafficking,
feeds, addiction, sure.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So traffickers use addiction as I mean use drugs in
general as a means of control.
They try and pull people intotrafficking through forced fraud
and coercion with drugs.
Not just forced fraud andcoercion on its own, but they
try to get them on drugs usingforce fraud and coercion.
They keep people in traffickingby using drugs.
(03:10):
They use the addictions ofparents to prey on their
children.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Capitalize on that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
And so familial trafficking very often happens
because of addiction.
So familial trafficking veryoften happens because of
addiction.
There was a study that thefinding was that 67% of the
people who are introducingsomeone into familial
trafficking is the mother.
Wow, 67% is the mother, and Isaw it on another podcast and
(03:43):
when I saw that I was shocked,because you think of a mom as
being a protector, of course,and it would be if you were to
ask me who before I saw that,who would, I think is going to
be, you know, introducingsomeone into trafficking?
I would think like someone'screepy uncle or a boyfriend or a
stepfather.
But the number one, the highestamount, is mothers, and of
(04:06):
those mothers I can't rememberthe exact number, but it was
around 90%, I think more than90% of the time the mothers are
in addiction.
And very often the highestamount of time they were trading
their children for drugs.
Not even for money to get drugsDirectly trading their children
for drugs.
Not even for money to get drugsdirectly trading their children
for drugs.
(04:26):
So when you think about thesetwo, it's not just that drugs
create a risk for people to betrafficked who are on drugs, but
for the family members ofpeople who are addicted to be
trafficked.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
You know, when you say that now, one of the first
women that I had the privilegeof working with, I mean I was
super green, this was like 11years ago she was actually
staying with us because wedidn't have a safe home, even
open at that time, and therewere four beds in Houston, right
, so it was a very temporarysituation.
But I remember she, withoutprompting I never would have
(05:03):
asked this, I didn't ask thisbut she had been just journaling
during her time with us and shewas like I want you to read
this.
And so she gave me her journaland then the excerpt it was
verbatim what you're talkingabout, the same story Her mother
had sold her for drugs.
And I remember at the end of itand you know she's going into
(05:25):
more detail, but she just said,like her last question to the
ether, you know was and whereare the police?
Why is no one doing anythingabout this?
And now that just came rightback to my memory when you're
sharing this, these statistics,and it's like those are the
stories, those are the people.
So we do need this is a reallyimportant conversation.
(05:47):
We need to be having it more, Ithink, at a national level, at
a safe home level.
This is such a critical aspectof the journey of healing.
Okay, we have so much to cover.
So, oh my goodness, talk to usa little bit.
So you know we've touched alittle bit on why drugs and
(06:07):
trafficking and how they overlap, and what happens to a woman
when she comes into the home,when she's journeying with us in
the home in the safe homeprogram.
Let's talk about her recoveryjourney post graduation.
You know, I have heard, I'lllet you speak to the actual
statistics, but I've heard, youknow, there is a risk of relapse
(06:29):
when she exits because forvarious reasons.
I'll let you cover.
What does that look like and dowe have a plan?
Do we help her with a plan forrelapse, for sobriety after
graduation?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, so that is a high risk time.
So when they've been in ourrestoration program, they've had
so much restored and they'vedone so much hard work.
Yeah, they amaze me all thetime how hard they're fighting
for their restoration and theirhealing and their work.
But they're also to some degreein a bubble.
(07:03):
We have different phases sothat they can experience
different levels of independence, so that it's not just all at
once out of the bubble.
That's something that Iactually think we get to do
really well here.
Um, but there's still a riskthat they'll be on their own and
suddenly, you know, relapse andthey're going to be faced with
(07:26):
things that they haven't beenfaced with on a regular basis.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So we provide aftercare and it's really
intentional and personalized inthe planning.
It's different for eachresident.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
That we serve.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So they get aftercare provided by case management, by
our program psychologist, sothat they are still meeting with
a psychologist and that'staking care of the legal issues
and also for recovery.
So we want them to leave with arecovery community supporting
them and so we work on thatwhile they're in the program in
the final phase.
(07:59):
But they're also meeting with arecovery specialist so that
they can do face-to-facecheck-ins and then we do
over-the-phone check-ins.
We want to make sure thatthey're getting established and
we've seen a lot of success.
So we've seen.
I was afraid in the beginning,when we started the aftercare
process, that they were going tobe in a rush to be done with it
(08:21):
all.
Once they got a taste of, youknow, real independence, I'm
actually living on my own.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I am free, I do not need you.
But that has not been ourexperience at all.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
So they celebrate their milestones with us.
They send me pictures of theirrecovery chips.
Someone just recentlycelebrated two years and sent me
a picture of their two-yearchip?
Yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I love that.
So just to reiterate, I meanyou're talking, we have case
management services, psychologyservices, so that would be like
deep, you know, intensivetherapy, addiction recovery.
And there was one more youmentioned.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Case management, addiction recovery and
psychology are the three that wealways try and implement in
aftercare.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, okay, and then like a community making sure
they have a community of support.
Yeah, so those are things.
Just because it was so richwhat you just said.
I, just as you know, we havesome listeners who are like I
want to start a safe home or Iwant to jump into safe homework,
or maybe you're just intrigued,right, interested.
So we're progressively kind ofwalking them through, kind of
(09:26):
being an advocate, but likecoaching them towards what we
hope is successful independentliving once they leave our
program.
But I think, to your point, it'ssuch a it's such a risky time
because you're you're literallylike leaving the fold, you're
leaving even just people who arelike positive or uplifting or
(09:49):
protective, protective or safe,you know, and you're going into
getting your own apartment, youknow, you don't know what your
neighbors are going to be doingor bringing home, or when you go
to work, maybe she's working ata restaurant, there's stuff
going on everywhere, you know,or anywhere.
Really, I mean, you can findsubstances, you could just find
unsafe people.
(10:09):
So having that network ofsupport kind of built in and
obviously it's looser becausethey're not living with us 24
seven.
We're not like watching that,you know.
But that's just such animportant piece for kind of like
relapse prevention, so can youspeak?
Do we ever?
So?
We still see people relapsingeven with that level of support.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
So relapse is a normal part of recovery and I
always try to make sure that allof the women we serve recognize
that, because what we don'twant to happen is if someone
relapses.
We don't want them to throweverything away because of a
relapse.
So, recovery is not linear, itvery rarely is just you know on
the road to recovery andeverything is smooth sailing
(10:54):
from here on out?
Very rarely so, and sometimesthere's a relapse before a
relapse.
So maybe someone has quitnicotine and we call that a
relapse before a relapse becauseit's not going to be as severe
as far as consequences gousually if someone has a
cigarette as if they were torelapse on.
(11:17):
You know yeah a control, acontrolled substance or illicit
street drug.
So um, what we want to do isoffer support in such a way that
they feel safe to talk to usabout it.
They don't feel shame affiliatedwith it when they're talking to
us, so that we can help themhave relapse prevention, so it
doesn't go further, right, sothat it stops there, but also so
(11:39):
that they can get back up.
We get knocked down and we getup again.
This is part of it.
If we talk about thatconstantly, you know what do you
do if you relapse, so that theycan just resume.
I'm always saying that we takea breath and we just resume.
Okay, one day at a time.
This is how we do recovery, oneday at a time.
I relapsed I I am in my ownpersonal recovery.
(12:01):
I celebrated 25 years clean andsober in june, but before that
25 years I had had three yearssober and I became a Christian
through working the 12 steps andI'm following Jesus and I'm
really thinking now I'm afollower of Jesus.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I feel good.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
And I relapsed as a believer for one night, and
thank God for one night.
It did not have to turn intoI'm flushing my life down the
toilet because I relapsed.
I didn't have to throweverything away, and God in His
grace has kept me sober sincethen.
But I always tell peoplerelapse is a part of my journey.
(12:39):
It doesn't have to be a part ofeveryone's, but it very often
is a part of most people's.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
That's so important to understand and that it's like
you hope for the best, preparefor the worst kind of mentality
and the fact that you I justlove what you were saying about
we're going to be a safe place.
We're going to be anon-condemning space,
non-judgmental, there's no shamethat's so critical.
(13:08):
That feels to me like such anintegral piece.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
There's so much shame with the women we serve.
Survivors of trafficking haveso much shame that they take on
responsibility for everyonearound them doing to them for
the things that have been doneto them not the things that
they've done, but the thingsthat have been done to them.
(13:36):
There's shame about some of thethings they've done too, but so
much is about the things thathave been done to them.
And so, as they are walking intruth, in restoration that's
part of what we're doing is,what is the truth?
As their minds are beingrenewed and they are seeing who
they really are, we want them.
As they transition out and theygo into independence, it's
(14:00):
almost like seeing a baby deerlearning to walk.
Their legs are a little wobbly.
They have to get their footingand now walk out what they have
learned to be true aboutthemselves and what they believe
.
And what does that look like inthe application of their
day-to-day life?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Sure, yeah, it's like a whole nother skill set.
Yeah, and you're doing it soberthis time.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, and to recognize shame, like I call it,
swatting.
It's like mosquitoes, like youknow, these shameful thoughts
will come up accusations willcome up and, recognizing them,
call it what it is and then bedone with it Like it's gone.
It's not true, muzzle, that?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah.
So it sounds to me like there'ssuch an opportunity for just
the power of the gospel to comeinto this sector.
Can you talk to us about yourexperience and what have you
seen in the realm of like?
How does Jesus play into this?
How does the gospel play intoalso addiction recovery?
(14:54):
How do we merge those worlds ina healthy way?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, okay, so Jesus is the only hope for recovery.
Really, truly, there is no hopefor restoration or recovery
apart from Jesus.
Anything that is going to belasting as far as recovery and
restoration goes is only goingto be in the strength of the
Lord.
So there's a book calledAlcoholics Anonymous and in that
(15:21):
book one of the lines that itsays is we've been speaking to
you of, and it's referring toaddiction, and it says it's
cunning, baffling and powerful,which has been my experience
seeing addiction in people'slives is that it's cunning,
baffling and powerful.
And then it says but there isone who has all power.
That one is God.
May you find him now, and thewhole book, the recovery journey
(15:43):
, is about recognizing that I ampowerless over this addiction.
I cannot fight it on my own, Ican't.
But God can, and he wants to ifI will just surrender and let
him.
And that is the beauty ofrecovery.
I think of it as people talkabout rock bottom and I heard
(16:04):
someone say once that rockbottom was their birthstone and
they were talking about liketheir life was so messed up.
But what I thought about wasrock bottom was my birthstone.
Because I hit a bottom, I wasborn again.
I turned to the Lord and I wasborn again.
So rock bottom is a beautifulbirthstone.
It I hit a bottom, I was bornagain.
I turned to the Lord and I wasborn again.
So rock bottom is a beautifulbirthstone.
It's like a stone in my crown,you know, and so one of the
(16:25):
beautiful things about who theLord is is that he is wanting
recovery.
He is wanting restoration, hewants abundant life.
He doesn't just want to setpeople free and then you're on
your own.
He wants to set people free andthen he wants to walk with them
and he wants to remove all ofthe effects of the
(16:46):
incomprehensible demoralizationthat has come with that life.
And then he wants them torecognize that with what he set
them free, he has given them theability to help other people be
set free.
And that is the beauty ofrecovery, is you get to pass it
on and it's right away.
So, a lot of times, someone youknow will get saved and they'll
(17:09):
be on fire and then the longerthat they walk with the Lord,
the less likely they are to beas vocal about sharing the
gospel.
We see this a lot of times.
New believers have this fireand then you kind of get
complacent.
And people who have been setfree, who are in recovery part
of the recovery process is theysay you can't keep it unless you
(17:30):
give it away.
So it's sharing it.
So it's this really gospelthinking right, which is that
I'm going to tell you what itwas like, what happened and what
it's like now.
What it was like was horrible.
What happened was Jesus Christ,and what it's like now is that
I get to walk in abundant lifeand I get to share it with other
(17:50):
people, and those other peoplecan remind me what it used to be
like.
So I continue to be gratefuland I continue to embrace the
Lord with this humility thatcomes from the truth right.
Which is that he's the answer.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I love that.
I just see, you know, from mylimited perspective, you know,
when we're talking aboutsubstance use or illicit drug
use or whatever, like all roadslead to death and that might
look like actual physical death,right, very, and we're seeing
that even be more kind ofpronounced, I would say, with
(18:28):
the severity of the drugs, thatwe're seeing the toxicity so it
leads to physical death.
But also, I mean in anotherepisode you touched on, there
are some drugs that are likecause sores and and so we're
leaving it.
We're seeing it lead tosickness and disease and
infection and, um, malformationand things that are happening to
(18:52):
the brain and like so sicknessand disease.
Yeah, we're seeing it lead to Imean, you talk about
dysfunctional relationships abreakdown in the community, a
breakdown in family, like all ofthese very harmful side effects
, if you will, to the person youknow, to their body, their soul
(19:17):
, their spirit, their psyche,like all of these negative
effects, I guess is.
What I'm trying to say is I seeJesus as being the road out,
the way out, because he came togive us, like you mentioned,
like a life and life abundant.
He came to heal all of oursickness and all of our disease.
He carried it on him.
(19:37):
Whether that's self-inflicted,you know, because there's some
stupid stuff that we do, peopledo that are not doing drugs and
they self-inflict sickness anddisease Right or we just live in
a fallen world or whatever, buthe's still.
He's like I don't.
You know, I'm not judging howit came upon you.
I came to carry your sicknessand disease.
I came to carry your sicknessand disease.
(19:59):
I came to carry the weight ofyour sin.
I came to deliver you from allof your unrighteous, ungodly,
terrible decision-making, youknow.
Or I came to deliver you, guys,from the effects of humanity's
choices.
You know the pain of humanity'schoices upon you that were
inflicted upon you that reallyyou didn't do to yourself.
Yeah, so, irrespective ofwhether someone's like, oh, I
(20:24):
chose drugs or I didn't, westill need that same deliverer,
absolutely, you know, andthere's no shame, there's no
judgment, but Christ is, he'spowerful enough to reach into
that pit, that hell pit,literally right, and pull
somebody out, set them.
It says even in Psalms, he tookI'm going to butcher this, but
(20:48):
he takes his children from theash heap, from the trash heap,
and he sets them among princesof his people.
And I just see that being suchthe opportunity for redemption,
no matter what someone's storyis, again, willingly or
unwillingly.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, you know I think about when I think of
recovery.
I think lots of things about it, but I think about being
reentered under the covering ofthe Lord, and so the word
recovery makes me think.
I love Psalm 91.
And I think about where he saysI will cover you with my
pinions and under my wings youwill find refuge.
(21:27):
And I think about people whoare, for whatever reason,
outside of the will of God,right Whether someone has pulled
them.
Like you said, humanity hasdone things.
We need recovery from thethings that have been done to us
and the things we've done toourselves, and it's so beautiful
that what he does is he puts usback into right standing with
(21:51):
him and right position, andwe're under the umbrella of his
covering of his covering.
It's just it's kind of amazingto remember how wonderful it is
and that he would use us, inspite of ourselves really, and
(22:12):
change us in such a way that wethen get to help other people.
And it helps to remember thatbecause otherwise we could
despair.
There is, like you said, somuch bad stuff going on.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
The world is.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
there's so much yuckiness there's so much
devastation and the problem isso big, but God is bigger.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
So in that vein, I'm kind of putting you on the spot
here, but can you, would youshare with us just what is some
God story that you've seen,whether it's micro or macro,
specifically around the issue ofaddiction and with the
population that we're serving,with these women?
Have you seen the Lord break in?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Oh yes, so many ways, Okay.
So let me think of I want tothink of ways to do it without
anyone who might listen to thisknowing I'm talking about them.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Sure, yeah, we want to protect anonymity.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I mean absolutely Just a recent thing.
I'll share a testimony that'sbeen so beautiful.
We have a volunteer that comesand leads a recovery group in
the home and in the home, andshe advised one of our residents
to pray and ask God to show herwhere she needed healing.
(23:27):
She knew she needed a recovery,but she wasn't sure of all of
the areas.
So this volunteer said pray andask God to show you where you
need healing that you don't evenknow about.
And so she did, and shortlyafter that she discovered that
she actually had alife-threatening physical
ailment that she had no ideaabout and she knew immediately
(23:50):
that it was an answer to thatprayer.
And, like she prayed, she foundout about this thing that could
have.
The doctors were amazed thatshe was still alive, and I mean
they said you should be dead.
And so she got physical healing.
She had prayed and asked God toshow her what she needs
recovery and healing in that shedidn't know about.
And so he answered and heshowed her that and that alone
(24:14):
is a huge testimony.
That would have been enough tofocus on and we go like wow.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
God is amazing.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Shortly after that, though, he started to show her
other areas.
As a result of that physicalthing, she was set free from
nicotine.
She just celebrated or she'sgetting ready to celebrate like
two months being free fromnicotine, and that was not
something she was even lookingfor.
You know like in the wholescope of all of the things she's
facing.
It was not a big deal, it's nota priority, but so she was
(24:43):
unexpectedly set free.
But she also entered another12-step program as a result of
seeing something through thatprayer that God led her to, and
she has now had her mind totallyrenewed and she used to think
that the idea that someone couldever be waiting to get married,
(25:07):
to have sex or ever be with oneperson for their life was not
even real.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Like if someone said they were doing that you know
it's not even a real thing thatpeople do.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And now that's not only does she know that that's
real, that's what she wants forherself.
She believes that that's whatGod has for her, and she's
excited about it.
And it just blows my mind thathe took this one prayer like
show me where I need recoverythat I don't know about.
Show me your love is what shewas praying Show me your love
and show me where I need healing.
And he did it in all theseavenues.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
He's like boo boo, boo, boo boo, and I'm just like
sitting back and watching likewow, what a privilege to watch
this it to watch this, that's sobeautiful because it births
like hope.
Not only does it birth hope, itbirths dignity and value of
like you are so valued to him.
Wow, oh my gosh, that's such anamazing story.
(26:01):
I mean, I know you have amillion others.
Is there anything, jessica,that we haven't covered through
our series, that you want to sayto the audience, to the
listeners?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
you want to say to the audience, to the listeners
yeah, I do want to say that weneed people who have a heart for
trafficking, who also have aheart for recovery or have
experience with recovery.
What you have to offer is sovaluable.
We need more volunteers, wewant to get the word out, we
want people who are serving therecovery community to be more
aware of trafficking so that wecan help survivors, and we want
(26:34):
the trafficking community tohave more of a recovery presence
.
So, if that's, you, contact us.
I love that, okay.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
So you can reach us at ElijahRisingorg.
Honestly, admin atElijahRisingorg is our email, so
anything that pops into yourmind Just to piggyback off of
that.
There's so much build out stillleft to do.
There's so much of a bridgethat needs to be built, layer by
layer, brick by brick, betweenthe recovery community and the
(27:03):
anti-trafficking space.
There are a lot ofopportunities and you're doing a
lot of work around that.
So, thank you, jessica.
Your wisdom and your expertisehas been such a gift.
We are going to be continuingthese conversations in the
months and podcasts to come.
So, again, if you liked thisepisode, go back and listen to
episode one, two with JessicaGobble, our recovery specialist.
(27:26):
You can listen to theseanywhere.
You get podcasts like share,subscribe.
We just love you guys as ourlisteners.
Thank you so much for joiningus and we will see you soon.
Welcome back to the Elijah Rising podcast.
Today we are wrapping up ourseries on drug trends, addiction
and recovery in theanti-trafficking space, and I
have with me the famous,wonderful Jessica Gobble, our
Elijah Rising recoveryspecialist.
Jessica, thank you so much forjoining us for this series.
I can't wait to get into thetopic today.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thanks, micah, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
So if you haven't listened, we have two episodes
that we've already covered withJessica.
Again, this is our third andfinal.
If you've enjoyed thesepodcasts, again like, subscribe,
share with your friends.
We really want to reallypromote and advocate for the
integration of, you know,anti-trafficking and recovery,
(00:46):
addiction recovery, within thisspace, because it's such a
critical topic and I feel likewe don't, I think we don't talk
about it enough.
You know, it's not a topic thatyou naturally gravitate to when
you think, oh, we need to opena safe home or safe homes for,
you know, trafficked women.
Addiction sometimes is not partof that conversation, sadly.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Can I tell you about that?
Can I tell you about somethingthat happened this week.
I was looking at a periodicalit's like a forum, a discussion
forum for this periodical forprofessionals who who are in
addiction medicine and I noticedthat someone had asked about
addiction medicine as itpertains to reentry from the
(01:32):
prison system and I thought, oh,I'm glad that that topic is
coming up.
Let me look at other topicsthat have come up.
I wanted to see in the historyof this periodical, searching
through all the archives, howmany questions there had been
about trafficking survivors, andthere were none.
Wow, none, none.
So it addressed reentry fromthe prison system, it addressed
(01:53):
homelessness, but it addressedsexual abuse, but there was
nothing at all about humantrafficking, nothing about
sexual exploitation, nothing.
So nobody asking how do we besttreat with addiction medicine
(02:14):
survivors of trafficking amongthis huge national organization
of professionals?
That's incredible and I wasshocked.
But then I thought about it andit's really not that surprising
because very often it's nottalked about.
Even though addiction feedstrafficking and trafficking
feeds addiction.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Absolutely.
It's not talked about and wesee that almost 100% of the time
with the population that we'reserving.
That was so good actually.
Can you just explain what doyou mean by that?
What do you mean by addictionfeeds trafficking, trafficking,
feeds, addiction, sure.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So traffickers use addiction as I mean use drugs in
general as a means of control.
They try and pull people intotrafficking through forced fraud
and coercion with drugs.
Not just forced fraud andcoercion on its own, but they
try to get them on drugs usingforce fraud and coercion.
They keep people in traffickingby using drugs.
(03:10):
They use the addictions ofparents to prey on their
children.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Capitalize on that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
And so familial trafficking very often happens
because of addiction.
So familial trafficking veryoften happens because of
addiction.
There was a study that thefinding was that 67% of the
people who are introducingsomeone into familial
trafficking is the mother.
Wow, 67% is the mother, and Isaw it on another podcast and
(03:43):
when I saw that I was shocked,because you think of a mom as
being a protector, of course,and it would be if you were to
ask me who before I saw that,who would, I think is going to
be, you know, introducingsomeone into trafficking?
I would think like someone'screepy uncle or a boyfriend or a
stepfather.
But the number one, the highestamount, is mothers, and of
(04:06):
those mothers I can't rememberthe exact number, but it was
around 90%, I think more than90% of the time the mothers are
in addiction.
And very often the highestamount of time they were trading
their children for drugs.
Not even for money to get drugsDirectly trading their children
for drugs.
Not even for money to get drugsdirectly trading their children
for drugs.
(04:26):
So when you think about thesetwo, it's not just that drugs
create a risk for people to betrafficked who are on drugs, but
for the family members ofpeople who are addicted to be
trafficked.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
You know, when you say that now, one of the first
women that I had the privilegeof working with, I mean I was
super green, this was like 11years ago she was actually
staying with us because wedidn't have a safe home, even
open at that time, and therewere four beds in Houston, right
, so it was a very temporarysituation.
But I remember she, withoutprompting I never would have
(05:03):
asked this, I didn't ask thisbut she had been just journaling
during her time with us and shewas like I want you to read
this.
And so she gave me her journaland then the excerpt it was
verbatim what you're talkingabout, the same story Her mother
had sold her for drugs.
And I remember at the end of itand you know she's going into
(05:25):
more detail, but she just said,like her last question to the
ether, you know was and whereare the police?
Why is no one doing anythingabout this?
And now that just came rightback to my memory when you're
sharing this, these statistics,and it's like those are the
stories, those are the people.
So we do need this is a reallyimportant conversation.
(05:47):
We need to be having it more, Ithink, at a national level, at
a safe home level.
This is such a critical aspectof the journey of healing.
Okay, we have so much to cover.
So, oh my goodness, talk to usa little bit.
So you know we've touched alittle bit on why drugs and
(06:07):
trafficking and how they overlap, and what happens to a woman
when she comes into the home,when she's journeying with us in
the home in the safe homeprogram.
Let's talk about her recoveryjourney post graduation.
You know, I have heard, I'lllet you speak to the actual
statistics, but I've heard, youknow, there is a risk of relapse
(06:29):
when she exits because forvarious reasons.
I'll let you cover.
What does that look like and dowe have a plan?
Do we help her with a plan forrelapse, for sobriety after
graduation?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, so that is a high risk time.
So when they've been in ourrestoration program, they've had
so much restored and they'vedone so much hard work.
Yeah, they amaze me all thetime how hard they're fighting
for their restoration and theirhealing and their work.
But they're also to some degreein a bubble.
(07:03):
We have different phases sothat they can experience
different levels of independence, so that it's not just all at
once out of the bubble.
That's something that Iactually think we get to do
really well here.
Um, but there's still a riskthat they'll be on their own and
suddenly, you know, relapse andthey're going to be faced with
(07:26):
things that they haven't beenfaced with on a regular basis.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So we provide aftercare and it's really
intentional and personalized inthe planning.
It's different for eachresident.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
That we serve.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So they get aftercare provided by case management, by
our program psychologist, sothat they are still meeting with
a psychologist and that'staking care of the legal issues
and also for recovery.
So we want them to leave with arecovery community supporting
them and so we work on thatwhile they're in the program in
the final phase.
(07:59):
But they're also meeting with arecovery specialist so that
they can do face-to-facecheck-ins and then we do
over-the-phone check-ins.
We want to make sure thatthey're getting established and
we've seen a lot of success.
So we've seen.
I was afraid in the beginning,when we started the aftercare
process, that they were going tobe in a rush to be done with it
(08:21):
all.
Once they got a taste of, youknow, real independence, I'm
actually living on my own.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I am free, I do not need you.
But that has not been ourexperience at all.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
So they celebrate their milestones with us.
They send me pictures of theirrecovery chips.
Someone just recentlycelebrated two years and sent me
a picture of their two-yearchip?
Yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I love that.
So just to reiterate, I meanyou're talking, we have case
management services, psychologyservices, so that would be like
deep, you know, intensivetherapy, addiction recovery.
And there was one more youmentioned.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Case management, addiction recovery and
psychology are the three that wealways try and implement in
aftercare.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, okay, and then like a community making sure
they have a community of support.
Yeah, so those are things.
Just because it was so richwhat you just said.
I, just as you know, we havesome listeners who are like I
want to start a safe home or Iwant to jump into safe homework,
or maybe you're just intrigued,right, interested.
So we're progressively kind ofwalking them through, kind of
(09:26):
being an advocate, but likecoaching them towards what we
hope is successful independentliving once they leave our
program.
But I think, to your point, it'ssuch a it's such a risky time
because you're you're literallylike leaving the fold, you're
leaving even just people who arelike positive or uplifting or
(09:49):
protective, protective or safe,you know, and you're going into
getting your own apartment, youknow, you don't know what your
neighbors are going to be doingor bringing home, or when you go
to work, maybe she's working ata restaurant, there's stuff
going on everywhere, you know,or anywhere.
Really, I mean, you can findsubstances, you could just find
unsafe people.
(10:09):
So having that network ofsupport kind of built in and
obviously it's looser becausethey're not living with us 24
seven.
We're not like watching that,you know.
But that's just such animportant piece for kind of like
relapse prevention, so can youspeak?
Do we ever?
So?
We still see people relapsingeven with that level of support.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
So relapse is a normal part of recovery and I
always try to make sure that allof the women we serve recognize
that, because what we don'twant to happen is if someone
relapses.
We don't want them to throweverything away because of a
relapse.
So, recovery is not linear, itvery rarely is just you know on
the road to recovery andeverything is smooth sailing
(10:54):
from here on out?
Very rarely so, and sometimesthere's a relapse before a
relapse.
So maybe someone has quitnicotine and we call that a
relapse before a relapse becauseit's not going to be as severe
as far as consequences gousually if someone has a
cigarette as if they were torelapse on.
(11:17):
You know yeah a control, acontrolled substance or illicit
street drug.
So um, what we want to do isoffer support in such a way that
they feel safe to talk to usabout it.
They don't feel shame affiliatedwith it when they're talking to
us, so that we can help themhave relapse prevention, so it
doesn't go further, right, sothat it stops there, but also so
(11:39):
that they can get back up.
We get knocked down and we getup again.
This is part of it.
If we talk about thatconstantly, you know what do you
do if you relapse, so that theycan just resume.
I'm always saying that we takea breath and we just resume.
Okay, one day at a time.
This is how we do recovery, oneday at a time.
I relapsed I I am in my ownpersonal recovery.
(12:01):
I celebrated 25 years clean andsober in june, but before that
25 years I had had three yearssober and I became a Christian
through working the 12 steps andI'm following Jesus and I'm
really thinking now I'm afollower of Jesus.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I feel good.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
And I relapsed as a believer for one night, and
thank God for one night.
It did not have to turn intoI'm flushing my life down the
toilet because I relapsed.
I didn't have to throweverything away, and God in His
grace has kept me sober sincethen.
But I always tell peoplerelapse is a part of my journey.
(12:39):
It doesn't have to be a part ofeveryone's, but it very often
is a part of most people's.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
That's so important to understand and that it's like
you hope for the best, preparefor the worst kind of mentality
and the fact that you I justlove what you were saying about
we're going to be a safe place.
We're going to be anon-condemning space,
non-judgmental, there's no shamethat's so critical.
(13:08):
That feels to me like such anintegral piece.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
There's so much shame with the women we serve.
Survivors of trafficking haveso much shame that they take on
responsibility for everyonearound them doing to them for
the things that have been doneto them not the things that
they've done, but the thingsthat have been done to them.
(13:36):
There's shame about some of thethings they've done too, but so
much is about the things thathave been done to them.
And so, as they are walking intruth, in restoration that's
part of what we're doing is,what is the truth?
As their minds are beingrenewed and they are seeing who
they really are, we want them.
As they transition out and theygo into independence, it's
(14:00):
almost like seeing a baby deerlearning to walk.
Their legs are a little wobbly.
They have to get their footingand now walk out what they have
learned to be true aboutthemselves and what they believe
.
And what does that look like inthe application of their
day-to-day life?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Sure, yeah, it's like a whole nother skill set.
Yeah, and you're doing it soberthis time.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, and to recognize shame, like I call it,
swatting.
It's like mosquitoes, like youknow, these shameful thoughts
will come up accusations willcome up and, recognizing them,
call it what it is and then bedone with it Like it's gone.
It's not true, muzzle, that?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah.
So it sounds to me like there'ssuch an opportunity for just
the power of the gospel to comeinto this sector.
Can you talk to us about yourexperience and what have you
seen in the realm of like?
How does Jesus play into this?
How does the gospel play intoalso addiction recovery?
(14:54):
How do we merge those worlds ina healthy way?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, okay, so Jesus is the only hope for recovery.
Really, truly, there is no hopefor restoration or recovery
apart from Jesus.
Anything that is going to belasting as far as recovery and
restoration goes is only goingto be in the strength of the
Lord.
So there's a book calledAlcoholics Anonymous and in that
(15:21):
book one of the lines that itsays is we've been speaking to
you of, and it's referring toaddiction, and it says it's
cunning, baffling and powerful,which has been my experience
seeing addiction in people'slives is that it's cunning,
baffling and powerful.
And then it says but there isone who has all power.
That one is God.
May you find him now, and thewhole book, the recovery journey
(15:43):
, is about recognizing that I ampowerless over this addiction.
I cannot fight it on my own, Ican't.
But God can, and he wants to ifI will just surrender and let
him.
And that is the beauty ofrecovery.
I think of it as people talkabout rock bottom and I heard
(16:04):
someone say once that rockbottom was their birthstone and
they were talking about liketheir life was so messed up.
But what I thought about wasrock bottom was my birthstone.
Because I hit a bottom, I wasborn again.
I turned to the Lord and I wasborn again.
So rock bottom is a beautifulbirthstone.
It I hit a bottom, I was bornagain.
I turned to the Lord and I wasborn again.
So rock bottom is a beautifulbirthstone.
It's like a stone in my crown,you know, and so one of the
(16:25):
beautiful things about who theLord is is that he is wanting
recovery.
He is wanting restoration, hewants abundant life.
He doesn't just want to setpeople free and then you're on
your own.
He wants to set people free andthen he wants to walk with them
and he wants to remove all ofthe effects of the
(16:46):
incomprehensible demoralizationthat has come with that life.
And then he wants them torecognize that with what he set
them free, he has given them theability to help other people be
set free.
And that is the beauty ofrecovery, is you get to pass it
on and it's right away.
So, a lot of times, someone youknow will get saved and they'll
(17:09):
be on fire and then the longerthat they walk with the Lord,
the less likely they are to beas vocal about sharing the
gospel.
We see this a lot of times.
New believers have this fireand then you kind of get
complacent.
And people who have been setfree, who are in recovery part
of the recovery process is theysay you can't keep it unless you
(17:30):
give it away.
So it's sharing it.
So it's this really gospelthinking right, which is that
I'm going to tell you what itwas like, what happened and what
it's like now.
What it was like was horrible.
What happened was Jesus Christ,and what it's like now is that
I get to walk in abundant lifeand I get to share it with other
(17:50):
people, and those other peoplecan remind me what it used to be
like.
So I continue to be gratefuland I continue to embrace the
Lord with this humility thatcomes from the truth right.
Which is that he's the answer.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I love that.
I just see, you know, from mylimited perspective, you know,
when we're talking aboutsubstance use or illicit drug
use or whatever, like all roadslead to death and that might
look like actual physical death,right, very, and we're seeing
that even be more kind ofpronounced, I would say, with
(18:28):
the severity of the drugs, thatwe're seeing the toxicity so it
leads to physical death.
But also, I mean in anotherepisode you touched on, there
are some drugs that are likecause sores and and so we're
leaving it.
We're seeing it lead tosickness and disease and
infection and, um, malformationand things that are happening to
(18:52):
the brain and like so sicknessand disease.
Yeah, we're seeing it lead to Imean, you talk about
dysfunctional relationships abreakdown in the community, a
breakdown in family, like all ofthese very harmful side effects
, if you will, to the person youknow, to their body, their soul
(19:17):
, their spirit, their psyche,like all of these negative
effects, I guess is.
What I'm trying to say is I seeJesus as being the road out,
the way out, because he came togive us, like you mentioned,
like a life and life abundant.
He came to heal all of oursickness and all of our disease.
He carried it on him.
(19:37):
Whether that's self-inflicted,you know, because there's some
stupid stuff that we do, peopledo that are not doing drugs and
they self-inflict sickness anddisease Right or we just live in
a fallen world or whatever, buthe's still.
He's like I don't.
You know, I'm not judging howit came upon you.
I came to carry your sicknessand disease.
I came to carry your sicknessand disease.
(19:59):
I came to carry the weight ofyour sin.
I came to deliver you from allof your unrighteous, ungodly,
terrible decision-making, youknow.
Or I came to deliver you, guys,from the effects of humanity's
choices.
You know the pain of humanity'schoices upon you that were
inflicted upon you that reallyyou didn't do to yourself.
Yeah, so, irrespective ofwhether someone's like, oh, I
(20:24):
chose drugs or I didn't, westill need that same deliverer,
absolutely, you know, andthere's no shame, there's no
judgment, but Christ is, he'spowerful enough to reach into
that pit, that hell pit,literally right, and pull
somebody out, set them.
It says even in Psalms, he tookI'm going to butcher this, but
(20:48):
he takes his children from theash heap, from the trash heap,
and he sets them among princesof his people.
And I just see that being suchthe opportunity for redemption,
no matter what someone's storyis, again, willingly or
unwillingly.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, you know I think about when I think of
recovery.
I think lots of things about it, but I think about being
reentered under the covering ofthe Lord, and so the word
recovery makes me think.
I love Psalm 91.
And I think about where he saysI will cover you with my
pinions and under my wings youwill find refuge.
(21:27):
And I think about people whoare, for whatever reason,
outside of the will of God,right Whether someone has pulled
them.
Like you said, humanity hasdone things.
We need recovery from thethings that have been done to us
and the things we've done toourselves, and it's so beautiful
that what he does is he puts usback into right standing with
(21:51):
him and right position, andwe're under the umbrella of his
covering of his covering.
It's just it's kind of amazingto remember how wonderful it is
and that he would use us, inspite of ourselves really, and
(22:12):
change us in such a way that wethen get to help other people.
And it helps to remember thatbecause otherwise we could
despair.
There is, like you said, somuch bad stuff going on.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
The world is.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
there's so much yuckiness there's so much
devastation and the problem isso big, but God is bigger.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
So in that vein, I'm kind of putting you on the spot
here, but can you, would youshare with us just what is some
God story that you've seen,whether it's micro or macro,
specifically around the issue ofaddiction and with the
population that we're serving,with these women?
Have you seen the Lord break in?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Oh yes, so many ways, Okay.
So let me think of I want tothink of ways to do it without
anyone who might listen to thisknowing I'm talking about them.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Sure, yeah, we want to protect anonymity.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I mean absolutely Just a recent thing.
I'll share a testimony that'sbeen so beautiful.
We have a volunteer that comesand leads a recovery group in
the home and in the home, andshe advised one of our residents
to pray and ask God to show herwhere she needed healing.
(23:27):
She knew she needed a recovery,but she wasn't sure of all of
the areas.
So this volunteer said pray andask God to show you where you
need healing that you don't evenknow about.
And so she did, and shortlyafter that she discovered that
she actually had alife-threatening physical
ailment that she had no ideaabout and she knew immediately
(23:50):
that it was an answer to thatprayer.
And, like she prayed, she foundout about this thing that could
have.
The doctors were amazed thatshe was still alive, and I mean
they said you should be dead.
And so she got physical healing.
She had prayed and asked God toshow her what she needs
recovery and healing in that shedidn't know about.
And so he answered and heshowed her that and that alone
(24:14):
is a huge testimony.
That would have been enough tofocus on and we go like wow.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
God is amazing.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Shortly after that, though, he started to show her
other areas.
As a result of that physicalthing, she was set free from
nicotine.
She just celebrated or she'sgetting ready to celebrate like
two months being free fromnicotine, and that was not
something she was even lookingfor.
You know like in the wholescope of all of the things she's
facing.
It was not a big deal, it's nota priority, but so she was
(24:43):
unexpectedly set free.
But she also entered another12-step program as a result of
seeing something through thatprayer that God led her to, and
she has now had her mind totallyrenewed and she used to think
that the idea that someone couldever be waiting to get married,
(25:07):
to have sex or ever be with oneperson for their life was not
even real.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Like if someone said they were doing that you know
it's not even a real thing thatpeople do.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And now that's not only does she know that that's
real, that's what she wants forherself.
She believes that that's whatGod has for her, and she's
excited about it.
And it just blows my mind thathe took this one prayer like
show me where I need recoverythat I don't know about.
Show me your love is what shewas praying Show me your love
and show me where I need healing.
And he did it in all theseavenues.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
He's like boo boo, boo, boo boo, and I'm just like
sitting back and watching likewow, what a privilege to watch
this it to watch this, that's sobeautiful because it births
like hope.
Not only does it birth hope, itbirths dignity and value of
like you are so valued to him.
Wow, oh my gosh, that's such anamazing story.
(26:01):
I mean, I know you have amillion others.
Is there anything, jessica,that we haven't covered through
our series, that you want to sayto the audience, to the
listeners?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
you want to say to the audience, to the listeners
yeah, I do want to say that weneed people who have a heart for
trafficking, who also have aheart for recovery or have
experience with recovery.
What you have to offer is sovaluable.
We need more volunteers, wewant to get the word out, we
want people who are serving therecovery community to be more
aware of trafficking so that wecan help survivors, and we want
(26:34):
the trafficking community tohave more of a recovery presence
.
So, if that's, you, contact us.
I love that, okay.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
So you can reach us at ElijahRisingorg.
Honestly, admin atElijahRisingorg is our email, so
anything that pops into yourmind Just to piggyback off of
that.
There's so much build out stillleft to do.
There's so much of a bridgethat needs to be built, layer by
layer, brick by brick, betweenthe recovery community and the
(27:03):
anti-trafficking space.
There are a lot ofopportunities and you're doing a
lot of work around that.
So, thank you, jessica.
Your wisdom and your expertisehas been such a gift.
We are going to be continuingthese conversations in the
months and podcasts to come.
So, again, if you liked thisepisode, go back and listen to
episode one, two with JessicaGobble, our recovery specialist.
(27:26):
You can listen to theseanywhere.
You get podcasts like share,subscribe.
We just love you guys as ourlisteners.
Thank you so much for joiningus and we will see you soon.
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