What new drug trends are we seeing and why are they so concerning?
This is the second episode in our series with Jessica Gobble, Elijah Rising’s Recovery Specialist. In this episode, Jessica goes over the most popular types of drugs right now and why they are so dangerous, specifically to young people.
In this episode, Jessica sheds light on:
- The persistent surge of fentanyl and its devastating impact.
- The largest resurgence of stimulants since the 1980's.
- Why so many deadly drugs are currently legal.
Uncover the intricate web of addiction and trafficking, where profit margins drive the exploitation of vulnerable individuals.
Learn more about Elijah Rising »
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Elijah Rising podcast.
I'm your host, maika Gamboa,and today I have a very special
guest.
Her name is Jessica Gobble.
She is Elijah Rising's recoveryspecialist.
She's a lived experience expertand just incredibly
knowledgeable, full of thespirit, and we are going to get
such a treat.
This is actually episode two ina series that we're doing
(00:24):
around drug trends and addictionand recovery in the
anti-trafficking space.
So if you haven't listened toepisode one, you can go back one
podcast and listen to that one.
I highly recommend it, butwe're excited to have you back,
jessica.
Thanks for being here today.
Thanks, micah, I'm glad to behere, so we are just going to
jump right in, okay.
Okay, we have so much contentto cover.
(00:51):
You are like this wealth andrepository of knowledge, and so
I want to give you all the timethat you need.
But you know we've been talkinga little bit about why do we
even focus on addiction andrecovery?
Aren't we doing likeanti-trafficking, right, and so
and we've been talking a littlebit you explained so beautifully
in episode one of like whythose two worlds are merged, how
(01:12):
there's so much overlap, rather.
But so let's talk about whatyou're seeing trending things
that have changed, maybe even inthe last couple of years, we've
seen a lot of new developmentsin the recovery space.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout, like, what drug trends
are you seeing?
What do people out there whoare in this field, what do they
(01:33):
need to know, be mindful of andbe watching for?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Sure, and I really feel like everyone needs to know
this.
So parents need to know this.
People who are would considerthemselves recreational drug
users.
I think it's important foreveryone to know and obviously
in the anti-trafficking movementI think we need to really be on
top of this.
So one of the things that'srecent is that there's a
(01:57):
stimulant resurgence.
It's sort of like a pendulumswing, no-transcript.
(02:21):
So stimulant use has becomereally popular the most popular
it's been since the 1980s whencrack was brand new.
So it's huge right now.
And I think there was thismisconception by people using
drugs that if we use stimulantswe'll be safe from fentanyl.
The problem is that stimulantsare cut with fentanyl.
(02:42):
It's like everything is cutwith fentanyl.
Now it's in everything.
Can I just ask you, why is that?
Yeah, so if you think about itfrom a marketing perspective, if
you are a dealer and you havean opportunity to make money off
of two products by givingsomeone one product that
(03:04):
contains another product thatthey will become physically
dependent on, then it makessense from a marketing
perspective.
So also, fentanyl is supercheap, so people put it into
drugs to enhance the effect ofthe drugs, and so if someone
thinks they're smoking crack,they don't even realize that
(03:25):
they're actually gettingfentanyl.
It's going to give them anenhanced high, it's going to be
cheaper for the person producingthe crack and they're going to
end up with a customer who nowwants fentanyl and crack.
Okay, I totally derailed you.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I apologize.
You were talking aboutstimulants.
Okay, sorry.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's really helpful though to know.
Okay, okay.
And then there is a trend ofketamine use.
Ketamine has become famousrecently because Matthew Perry
died because of ketamine use andketamine is used by some
(04:03):
professionals in therapeuticways and that is not what
Matthew Perry died from.
Matthew Perry had been usingketamine in ketamine therapy,
but that's under the guidance ofa medical professional.
What is a trend is especiallyamong young drug users, is
skin-popping ketamine, which isusing a needle in the skin, not
(04:27):
intravenously, and that's kindof become trendy and it's weird.
It's become even more trend,like there's more demand since
Matthew Perry's death.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So there's something kind of cryptic about that.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
The big thing that's worrisome to almost everyone
that I talk to in the addictionprofession is xylosine.
Xylosine, which is sometimescalled the zombie drug, is not
illegal in a lot of states Texasis one of them.
It is a veterinary medicine andit is used to cut and enhance
(05:03):
drugs, and in most states it'sin the entire supply.
So everything that was cut withfentanyl is now being also cut
with xylosine, and part of thereason that that's scary is that
xylosine does not respond toNarcan.
So if someone is overdosing andthey're given Narcan or
Naloxone, it is not going tostop the effects of xylosine on
(05:28):
them.
Now if you were to see someoneoverdosing, you still should
administer Narcan, because a lotof times it's cut with both
fentanyl and xylosine and theNarcan will help with the
fentanyl.
But in addition to that itcauses skin infections.
It causes ulcers in the skinthat can turn into um like
gangrene type infections peopleare dying, wow, from the
(05:50):
infections.
And it's not at the site ofinjection, so it's not like just
for people who are using it andthey're getting an infection
from their drug use.
It has that effect on the bodyso that you might get a drug
user, might get a sore anywhere,which puts them at additional
risk for other infections rightso it's just horrible, horrible.
Um, there's also a trend ofsaraquil you be used, being
(06:16):
misused.
Saraquil is a mental healthmedication.
It's normally prescribed for um, let me think I just went blank
bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, anxiety disorders, and there's
been a lot more of itprescribed since the pandemic.
A lot of young people have hadmental health issues.
So there's more Seroquel outthere because it's been
(06:40):
prescribed so frequently.
And I've read that the trend isthat young people are taking
the Seroquel and normally itwould put them to sleep, it
would calm them down and putthem to sleep and they're trying
to stay awake past the pointthat they would fall asleep or
feel the calm, and so they cankind of feel a buzz by overusing
(07:01):
it.
There's also a new thing calledgas station heroin.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I don't know if you've heard about this.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It was in the news yesterday.
Like yesterday I just saw thatthere was a big multi-state
recall.
It's legal.
They sell it at gas stations.
The drug is actually calledTyaneptine and it's marketed
under lots of brands, but theone that there's a recall for is
called Neptune and it's in alot of gas stations.
(07:30):
But there have been multiplestates that have made it illegal
.
And now yesterday there's ahuge recall because there have
been all kinds of medicalproblems people ending up in the
ICU, intubated, as a result oftaking this substance that
they're buying at gas stationsthat are just over the counter.
So, and it's physicallyaddictive.
So you have a physicalwithdrawal similar to heroin,
(07:52):
which is why they're calling itgas station heroin.
Wow, so this is wild.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
It just feels like that we are in this kind of
free-for-all, like tailspin, Idon't know, with like in the
substance space, like that drugsand correct me if I'm wrong,
because I'm not super familiar,but it feels like they're
(08:18):
getting more pernicious, moredeadly, more ubiquitous even,
for sure, more ubiquitous even,and very subtle ways that these
people who are creating thedrugs are really subverting or
capitalizing on the market Forsure, one of the things that
I've noticed is that, as thestimulants resurgence happened,
(08:45):
I noticed that there were allthese legal things.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Like I said, xylosine is not illegal in some states,
so there's this new move to tryand take the fear that people
naturally have of some of thesedrugs away by saying that it's
legal, and I think that thatstarted with the legalization of
marijuana in a lot of states,and there was this narrative
(09:09):
that if it's legal, it must befine.
Yeah, it's safe and it's notaddictive and it's not harmful.
There are recent studies, thatactually recent findings.
It's not even a study.
The studies have been done.
The recent findings have beenpublished.
It's been added to the DSM-5that THC, which is the
ingredient in marijuana, isrecognized as causing mental
(09:32):
health issues.
There's a huge amount ofmaterial that supports this
evidence that it causespsychosis in a great number of
people who use THC, and part ofit is that the THC is so strong
that they're using that it'scausing negative effects on
their mental health.
(09:52):
It's causing this pot inducedpsychosis and now they're
recognizing that it's alsoaddictive.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
So after so many states have already legalized it
.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Oh wait a minute, hang on.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
So, after so many states have already legalized it
, yes, oh, wait a minute.
Yes, hang on.
There are other yeah, you knowindicators that we weren't
really like, aware of or weren'twatching for.
Yes, that's very concerningyeah, interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I saw that the governor of california is one of
the governors who is wanting tomake xylosing xylosing illegal.
So even though it's not illegalin all states, I thought, okay,
well, maybe they're recognizingthat this can be a problem and
they want to nip it in the bud.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
And so that we've we've seen like let's just take
fentanyl, for example you knowthat the death toll has climbed
over the years, or even over themonths, right Like becoming
more and more as people use itmore, becoming more ubiquitous,
like we've seen the, the falloutbe larger.
So I imagine that even withsome of these other drugs that
(10:53):
may be over the counter or maybelegal, that we could
potentially have that samesituation on our hands yeah, um,
that's one of the reasons Ithink they've acted so quickly
to make this tyanopene,tyaneptine be recalled so
quickly.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Sure Is that they're on top of this Because they're
recognizing that some of thesedrugs are poison.
Fentanyl is being called poisonRight now.
People are being prosecuted forpoisoning people when they
overdose on fentanyl.
Fentanyl is 50 times strongerthan heroin.
Wow, a hundred times strongerthan morphine.
So if you think about that, itmakes sense that it would be
(11:32):
considered poisonous, right?
It's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
That's wild.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout like?
We hear a lot in the news aboutfentanyl right, I'm so glad
that you're bringing to thetable, though there's like, okay
, but there's a little, let'szoom out.
You know there's another.
We're talking about a buffet ofoptions for drug use that are
all concerning, really deadly,very concerning, that we need to
be aware of, especially whenwe're doing shelter work.
(11:59):
Right, because we're coming,we're serving a population that
either typically has a drug usehistory or maybe they've had a
forced drug use history.
I mean, they're coming to uswith something, right?
So let's just talk aboutfentanyl, for example.
Can you talk to us about?
Because I think that's like abuzzword.
We hear it so much, you knowit's been so popularized.
(12:20):
Why is it so dangerous?
Why is it so concerning?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, so the potency is the main thing.
Historically, when someone hada drug problem and you wanted to
get help for someone, we wouldtalk about people needing to hit
a bottom.
People who care about themmight wait until things get bad
enough so that they can use thatas an opportunity to offer them
(12:46):
help.
The problem with fentanyl isthat there's this whole just
don't die movement.
People can die so quickly onfentanyl the first time they use
it, and it's not the peoplethat would typically be thought
of as who will die from a drugoverdose.
Sure, because there are nowpressed pills.
It's so commonly pressed inpills that look almost exactly
(13:10):
like they're so good at this.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
They take the form of another drug.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yes, so people a college student may think that
they're getting Adderall.
They call or they respond to anad online or message someone
online to get an Adderall sothat they can stay up all night
and study.
And they end up dying thatnight because it's been pressed
(13:36):
with fentanyl, because fentanylis so cheap and again fentanyl
is going to make the effects bemore felt of whatever it's mixed
with right and it's so cheap,so the dealers are using it
rather than having to use moreexpensive substances, and
they're cutting everything withit.
Um, I talked about this lasttime I was on a podcast with you
(13:59):
guys.
Fentanyl is the number onecause of death.
Fentanyl overdose is the numberone cause of death of 18 to
45-year-olds.
So last time I was here, onthis podcast, the death rate was
64,000.
That year, 64,000 18 to45-year-olds died from fentanyl
(14:20):
overdoses.
Last year that number went upto over 112,000.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
My gosh, it's almost double.
I know Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
So from 64,000 to 112,000.
And I said I had read anarticle that was talking about
these young people dying deathsof despair and that fentanyl was
such a sad drug and you knowthat they're not having an
opportunity to outgrow this sortof traditional recreational
(14:50):
drug use stage because fentanylis so deadly and that the amount
of deaths were equal to takingup an airplane and filling it
with college students every dayof the year and crashing it.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And that was when it was at 64,000.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
So now here we are over 112,000, and that's in 2023
.
And that's just fentanyloverdose.
That's not other drug overdoses.
That's crazy.
And that's not talking aboutthe damage done when someone
overdoses and doesn't die, butthey have problems from oxygen
deprivation to the brain or butof those.
That's 306 deaths per day of 18to 45 year olds last year.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
That is like filling two airplanes now two every
single day of the year andcrashing them that's wild, it's
crazy and the reason just tobring it kind of back home,
because you know, within theanti-trafficking space, when
you're talking 18 and 45 yearolds, I mean that is the
demographic that we're serving.
I mean, by and large right, atleast for Elijah Rising.
(15:52):
You know, our safe home weserve adult women who are in the
home and that's, yeah, 18 andup and we, we see, typically
they don't go over a 45 year oldage age range.
Um, so that's like literallythe demographic that we're going
after, that we're serving, thatwe're trying to reach, pull out
.
I mean that is just tragic itis.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I will say that something that I've noticed in
the resurgence of stimulants isthat traffickers do not want to
lose their investment Sure, sothey do not as much as they can
or as much as they're willing tomake an effort.
They do not want to lose thepeople they're trafficking.
So that is part of the reasonthat stimulants have become more
(16:36):
so popular and prevalent withtraffickers.
And although stimulants are cutwith fentanyl, it's not the
same thing as just givingsomeone fentanyl Like straight
yeah straight fentanyl Right.
So, although there aretraffickers who will want their,
the women that they're, or thepeople that they're trafficking,
to be completely incapacitatedyeah, that's true, so they might
(16:59):
.
And then there's an additionalrisk, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
My goodness Okay.
So last question you know, weknow we're seeing that we're the
market is changing right.
Even since COVID, I would sayyou know we've seen a dramatic
shift in just this whole idea ofhow drugs are being moved and
sold and buying and what typesand all of that.
(17:22):
So can you talk to us a littlebit?
I have heard this very brieflyrecently, I don't know much
about it what they call like anopen air drug market.
Sure, what is that and whyshould we be concerned?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Okay.
So open air drug markets sortof gotten a lot of press
recently.
It's actually not a new thing.
What that means is an areawhere drug dealers know they can
sell drugs and drug buyers knowthey can buy drugs somewhere
out in the open.
So, if you think about it,there have been like notorious
areas of big cities like SanFrancisco, tenderloin, where
(17:57):
this has existed for years andyears go.
Tenderloin, where this hasexisted for years and years.
What's new is that, because ofthe pandemic, bars and clubs and
places where people wouldtraditionally recreational drug
what people would callthemselves recreational drug
users who didn't have a regulardealer would normally be able to
go and find someone thereselling drugs.
(18:18):
Those places shut down right,so they had to find a new way to
sell drugs.
So open air drug marketsstarted to pop up in areas where
they wouldn't normally be indifferent cities.
And now there are areas indifferent cities where and part
of why that's a concern for usis in those open air drug
(18:39):
markets the person who isactually handing out the drugs
is very often someone who'sbeing trafficked.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
So can you go further into that.
Can you explain?
That that is just fascinatingand tragic.
Yeah, it is.
It's really sad.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So very often someone is in a position of
vulnerability because they havean addiction, and so a dealer
will say I will give you whatyou need.
I will give you drugs.
If you will stand here and bethe person who is the face
selling the drugs which putsthem at, they're then having all
(19:15):
of the risk of the criminal actabsolutely being persecuted.
I'm not persecuted, prosecuted,and it removes the risk to a
great deal for the actual dealer, the actual trafficker or the
dealer?
Yeah, and they also use them torun drugs and deliver drugs,
right.
So something else that happenedduring the pandemic is people
started getting them more onlineyou know messaging Sure and so
(19:39):
they will use them to be drugrunners, and they're going to be
the ones that are caught withthe drugs, right, and that's
just another layer ofvulnerability, exploitation, and
we see we've seen this in ourhome.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I mean that's like, okay, you got busted for, you
know, drugs or prostitution orsomething like that, but that's
not the underlying, that's notactually what's going on behind
the scenes, right?
So it's not always as cut anddry as you see people on the
news or whatever you know oryeah, that's.
That's not always the fullpicture, and I see these
(20:13):
traffickers, pimps, whatever youwant to call them like really
hiding behind multiple layers,which are people, individuals,
who are bearing the brunt,bearing the burden, receiving
the punishment that's really notdue them, you know?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
wow, it's really sad and with the crackdown on
fentanyl because it's been inthe press so much they are in
many states having really severepenalties.
So someone who is deliveringone pill yeah that contains
fentanyl now could end up with avery long-term sentence right
(20:52):
for delivering poison,especially if the person dies
and it could be someone who isbeing trafficked yeah, who,
who's being forced to do that,and that's, oh my goodness.
Yeah, and very often youngpeople, really young people.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Gosh, and then that's their whole life in front of
them, wow, so that's why youknow that kind of I won't go
into this today but that thecomplexities and the
vulnerabilities around thispopulation, the women that we're
serving, I mean we're talkingabout not only have we we've
touched on, okay, sextrafficking, forced fraud,
(21:26):
coercion, physical abuse, verbalabuse, right, but now we're
talking about a forced addiction, now we're talking about
criminality.
I mean there are so many layersto this of what a safe home
really needs to kind of know andbe prepared to go in with
services for this population.
You know it's so complex, it isum.
(21:47):
Well, is there anything else,as we wrap up, that we haven't
touched on today?
Um, around kind of what thedrug trends are, what we're
seeing, that we haven't touchedon?
That you would like ourlisteners to know.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I just I really always want to encourage people,
like find out about this,because if someone is starting
in this life, the sooner theycan get help the better.
So just like with trafficking,if you see something, say
something.
I think the same is true If youhave a friend or family member
who is acting different orsomething is just telling you
something's off or not right,especially with the potency of
the drugs that are around now.
Do not wait until you don'thave to wait until they hit a
(22:32):
bottom.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Gets bad.
Yeah, that's really good advice.
That's really really goodadvice.
Jessica, this was so amazing tohear kind of your perspective
and your knowledge.
You have such a wealth ofinformation.
So at the next episode, ourthird and final episode, we are
going to be talking morespecifically about how we touch
(22:53):
on addiction recovery within theSafe Home Program.
So I can't wait to touch onthat.
If you have enjoyed thisepisode episode, please like,
subscribe, share, spread theword.
We need people to.
We want people to be recoveredand to be these risks to be
mitigated in their lives, so wewould love for you guys to do
that.
(23:13):
We appreciate y'all listeningand, jessica, thank you so much
for joining us today.
Welcome to the Elijah Rising podcast.
I'm your host, maika Gamboa,and today I have a very special
guest.
Her name is Jessica Gobble.
She is Elijah Rising's recoveryspecialist.
She's a lived experience expertand just incredibly
knowledgeable, full of thespirit, and we are going to get
such a treat.
This is actually episode two ina series that we're doing
(00:24):
around drug trends and addictionand recovery in the
anti-trafficking space.
So if you haven't listened toepisode one, you can go back one
podcast and listen to that one.
I highly recommend it, butwe're excited to have you back,
jessica.
Thanks for being here today.
Thanks, micah, I'm glad to behere, so we are just going to
jump right in, okay.
Okay, we have so much contentto cover.
(00:51):
You are like this wealth andrepository of knowledge, and so
I want to give you all the timethat you need.
But you know we've been talkinga little bit about why do we
even focus on addiction andrecovery?
Aren't we doing likeanti-trafficking, right, and so
and we've been talking a littlebit you explained so beautifully
in episode one of like whythose two worlds are merged, how
(01:12):
there's so much overlap, rather.
But so let's talk about whatyou're seeing trending things
that have changed, maybe even inthe last couple of years, we've
seen a lot of new developmentsin the recovery space.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout, like, what drug trends
are you seeing?
What do people out there whoare in this field, what do they
(01:33):
need to know, be mindful of andbe watching for?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Sure, and I really feel like everyone needs to know
this.
So parents need to know this.
People who are would considerthemselves recreational drug
users.
I think it's important foreveryone to know and obviously
in the anti-trafficking movementI think we need to really be on
top of this.
So one of the things that'srecent is that there's a
(01:57):
stimulant resurgence.
It's sort of like a pendulumswing, no-transcript.
(02:21):
So stimulant use has becomereally popular the most popular
it's been since the 1980s whencrack was brand new.
So it's huge right now.
And I think there was thismisconception by people using
drugs that if we use stimulantswe'll be safe from fentanyl.
The problem is that stimulantsare cut with fentanyl.
(02:42):
It's like everything is cutwith fentanyl.
Now it's in everything.
Can I just ask you, why is that?
Yeah, so if you think about itfrom a marketing perspective, if
you are a dealer and you havean opportunity to make money off
of two products by givingsomeone one product that
(03:04):
contains another product thatthey will become physically
dependent on, then it makessense from a marketing
perspective.
So also, fentanyl is supercheap, so people put it into
drugs to enhance the effect ofthe drugs, and so if someone
thinks they're smoking crack,they don't even realize that
(03:25):
they're actually gettingfentanyl.
It's going to give them anenhanced high, it's going to be
cheaper for the person producingthe crack and they're going to
end up with a customer who nowwants fentanyl and crack.
Okay, I totally derailed you.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I apologize.
You were talking aboutstimulants.
Okay, sorry.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's really helpful though to know.
Okay, okay.
And then there is a trend ofketamine use.
Ketamine has become famousrecently because Matthew Perry
died because of ketamine use andketamine is used by some
(04:03):
professionals in therapeuticways and that is not what
Matthew Perry died from.
Matthew Perry had been usingketamine in ketamine therapy,
but that's under the guidance ofa medical professional.
What is a trend is especiallyamong young drug users, is
skin-popping ketamine, which isusing a needle in the skin, not
(04:27):
intravenously, and that's kindof become trendy and it's weird.
It's become even more trend,like there's more demand since
Matthew Perry's death.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So there's something kind of cryptic about that.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
The big thing that's worrisome to almost everyone
that I talk to in the addictionprofession is xylosine.
Xylosine, which is sometimescalled the zombie drug, is not
illegal in a lot of states Texasis one of them.
It is a veterinary medicine andit is used to cut and enhance
(05:03):
drugs, and in most states it'sin the entire supply.
So everything that was cut withfentanyl is now being also cut
with xylosine, and part of thereason that that's scary is that
xylosine does not respond toNarcan.
So if someone is overdosing andthey're given Narcan or
Naloxone, it is not going tostop the effects of xylosine on
(05:28):
them.
Now if you were to see someoneoverdosing, you still should
administer Narcan, because a lotof times it's cut with both
fentanyl and xylosine and theNarcan will help with the
fentanyl.
But in addition to that itcauses skin infections.
It causes ulcers in the skinthat can turn into um like
gangrene type infections peopleare dying, wow, from the
(05:50):
infections.
And it's not at the site ofinjection, so it's not like just
for people who are using it andthey're getting an infection
from their drug use.
It has that effect on the bodyso that you might get a drug
user, might get a sore anywhere,which puts them at additional
risk for other infections rightso it's just horrible, horrible.
Um, there's also a trend ofsaraquil you be used, being
(06:16):
misused.
Saraquil is a mental healthmedication.
It's normally prescribed for um, let me think I just went blank
bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, anxiety disorders, and there's
been a lot more of itprescribed since the pandemic.
A lot of young people have hadmental health issues.
So there's more Seroquel outthere because it's been
(06:40):
prescribed so frequently.
And I've read that the trend isthat young people are taking
the Seroquel and normally itwould put them to sleep, it
would calm them down and putthem to sleep and they're trying
to stay awake past the pointthat they would fall asleep or
feel the calm, and so they cankind of feel a buzz by overusing
(07:01):
it.
There's also a new thing calledgas station heroin.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I don't know if you've heard about this.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It was in the news yesterday.
Like yesterday I just saw thatthere was a big multi-state
recall.
It's legal.
They sell it at gas stations.
The drug is actually calledTyaneptine and it's marketed
under lots of brands, but theone that there's a recall for is
called Neptune and it's in alot of gas stations.
(07:30):
But there have been multiplestates that have made it illegal
.
And now yesterday there's ahuge recall because there have
been all kinds of medicalproblems people ending up in the
ICU, intubated, as a result oftaking this substance that
they're buying at gas stationsthat are just over the counter.
So, and it's physicallyaddictive.
So you have a physicalwithdrawal similar to heroin,
(07:52):
which is why they're calling itgas station heroin.
Wow, so this is wild.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
It just feels like that we are in this kind of
free-for-all, like tailspin, Idon't know, with like in the
substance space, like that drugsand correct me if I'm wrong,
because I'm not super familiar,but it feels like they're
(08:18):
getting more pernicious, moredeadly, more ubiquitous even,
for sure, more ubiquitous even,and very subtle ways that these
people who are creating thedrugs are really subverting or
capitalizing on the market Forsure, one of the things that
I've noticed is that, as thestimulants resurgence happened,
(08:45):
I noticed that there were allthese legal things.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Like I said, xylosine is not illegal in some states,
so there's this new move to tryand take the fear that people
naturally have of some of thesedrugs away by saying that it's
legal, and I think that thatstarted with the legalization of
marijuana in a lot of states,and there was this narrative
(09:09):
that if it's legal, it must befine.
Yeah, it's safe and it's notaddictive and it's not harmful.
There are recent studies, thatactually recent findings.
It's not even a study.
The studies have been done.
The recent findings have beenpublished.
It's been added to the DSM-5that THC, which is the
ingredient in marijuana, isrecognized as causing mental
(09:32):
health issues.
There's a huge amount ofmaterial that supports this
evidence that it causespsychosis in a great number of
people who use THC, and part ofit is that the THC is so strong
that they're using that it'scausing negative effects on
their mental health.
(09:52):
It's causing this pot inducedpsychosis and now they're
recognizing that it's alsoaddictive.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
So after so many states have already legalized it
.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Oh wait a minute, hang on.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
So, after so many states have already legalized it
, yes, oh, wait a minute.
Yes, hang on.
There are other yeah, you knowindicators that we weren't
really like, aware of or weren'twatching for.
Yes, that's very concerningyeah, interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I saw that the governor of california is one of
the governors who is wanting tomake xylosing xylosing illegal.
So even though it's not illegalin all states, I thought, okay,
well, maybe they're recognizingthat this can be a problem and
they want to nip it in the bud.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
And so that we've we've seen like let's just take
fentanyl, for example you knowthat the death toll has climbed
over the years, or even over themonths, right Like becoming
more and more as people use itmore, becoming more ubiquitous,
like we've seen the, the falloutbe larger.
So I imagine that even withsome of these other drugs that
(10:53):
may be over the counter or maybelegal, that we could
potentially have that samesituation on our hands yeah, um,
that's one of the reasons Ithink they've acted so quickly
to make this tyanopene,tyaneptine be recalled so
quickly.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Sure Is that they're on top of this Because they're
recognizing that some of thesedrugs are poison.
Fentanyl is being called poisonRight now.
People are being prosecuted forpoisoning people when they
overdose on fentanyl.
Fentanyl is 50 times strongerthan heroin.
Wow, a hundred times strongerthan morphine.
So if you think about that, itmakes sense that it would be
(11:32):
considered poisonous, right?
It's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
That's wild.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout like?
We hear a lot in the news aboutfentanyl right, I'm so glad
that you're bringing to thetable, though there's like, okay
, but there's a little, let'szoom out.
You know there's another.
We're talking about a buffet ofoptions for drug use that are
all concerning, really deadly,very concerning, that we need to
be aware of, especially whenwe're doing shelter work.
(11:59):
Right, because we're coming,we're serving a population that
either typically has a drug usehistory or maybe they've had a
forced drug use history.
I mean, they're coming to uswith something, right?
So let's just talk aboutfentanyl, for example.
Can you talk to us about?
Because I think that's like abuzzword.
We hear it so much, you knowit's been so popularized.
(12:20):
Why is it so dangerous?
Why is it so concerning?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, so the potency is the main thing.
Historically, when someone hada drug problem and you wanted to
get help for someone, we wouldtalk about people needing to hit
a bottom.
People who care about themmight wait until things get bad
enough so that they can use thatas an opportunity to offer them
(12:46):
help.
The problem with fentanyl isthat there's this whole just
don't die movement.
People can die so quickly onfentanyl the first time they use
it, and it's not the peoplethat would typically be thought
of as who will die from a drugoverdose.
Sure, because there are nowpressed pills.
It's so commonly pressed inpills that look almost exactly
(13:10):
like they're so good at this.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
They take the form of another drug.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yes, so people a college student may think that
they're getting Adderall.
They call or they respond to anad online or message someone
online to get an Adderall sothat they can stay up all night
and study.
And they end up dying thatnight because it's been pressed
(13:36):
with fentanyl, because fentanylis so cheap and again fentanyl
is going to make the effects bemore felt of whatever it's mixed
with right and it's so cheap,so the dealers are using it
rather than having to use moreexpensive substances, and
they're cutting everything withit.
Um, I talked about this lasttime I was on a podcast with you
(13:59):
guys.
Fentanyl is the number onecause of death.
Fentanyl overdose is the numberone cause of death of 18 to
45-year-olds.
So last time I was here, onthis podcast, the death rate was
64,000.
That year, 64,000 18 to45-year-olds died from fentanyl
(14:20):
overdoses.
Last year that number went upto over 112,000.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
My gosh, it's almost double.
I know Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
So from 64,000 to 112,000.
And I said I had read anarticle that was talking about
these young people dying deathsof despair and that fentanyl was
such a sad drug and you knowthat they're not having an
opportunity to outgrow this sortof traditional recreational
(14:50):
drug use stage because fentanylis so deadly and that the amount
of deaths were equal to takingup an airplane and filling it
with college students every dayof the year and crashing it.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And that was when it was at 64,000.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
So now here we are over 112,000, and that's in 2023
.
And that's just fentanyloverdose.
That's not other drug overdoses.
That's crazy.
And that's not talking aboutthe damage done when someone
overdoses and doesn't die, butthey have problems from oxygen
deprivation to the brain or butof those.
That's 306 deaths per day of 18to 45 year olds last year.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
That is like filling two airplanes now two every
single day of the year andcrashing them that's wild, it's
crazy and the reason just tobring it kind of back home,
because you know, within theanti-trafficking space, when
you're talking 18 and 45 yearolds, I mean that is the
demographic that we're serving.
I mean, by and large right, atleast for Elijah Rising.
(15:52):
You know, our safe home weserve adult women who are in the
home and that's, yeah, 18 andup and we, we see, typically
they don't go over a 45 year oldage age range.
Um, so that's like literallythe demographic that we're going
after, that we're serving, thatwe're trying to reach, pull out
.
I mean that is just tragic itis.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I will say that something that I've noticed in
the resurgence of stimulants isthat traffickers do not want to
lose their investment Sure, sothey do not as much as they can
or as much as they're willing tomake an effort.
They do not want to lose thepeople they're trafficking.
So that is part of the reasonthat stimulants have become more
(16:36):
so popular and prevalent withtraffickers.
And although stimulants are cutwith fentanyl, it's not the
same thing as just givingsomeone fentanyl Like straight
yeah straight fentanyl Right.
So, although there aretraffickers who will want their,
the women that they're, or thepeople that they're trafficking,
to be completely incapacitatedyeah, that's true, so they might
(16:59):
.
And then there's an additionalrisk, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
My goodness Okay.
So last question you know, weknow we're seeing that we're the
market is changing right.
Even since COVID, I would sayyou know we've seen a dramatic
shift in just this whole idea ofhow drugs are being moved and
sold and buying and what typesand all of that.
(17:22):
So can you talk to us a littlebit?
I have heard this very brieflyrecently, I don't know much
about it what they call like anopen air drug market.
Sure, what is that and whyshould we be concerned?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Okay.
So open air drug markets sortof gotten a lot of press
recently.
It's actually not a new thing.
What that means is an areawhere drug dealers know they can
sell drugs and drug buyers knowthey can buy drugs somewhere
out in the open.
So, if you think about it,there have been like notorious
areas of big cities like SanFrancisco, tenderloin, where
(17:57):
this has existed for years andyears go.
Tenderloin, where this hasexisted for years and years.
What's new is that, because ofthe pandemic, bars and clubs and
places where people wouldtraditionally recreational drug
what people would callthemselves recreational drug
users who didn't have a regulardealer would normally be able to
go and find someone thereselling drugs.
(18:18):
Those places shut down right,so they had to find a new way to
sell drugs.
So open air drug marketsstarted to pop up in areas where
they wouldn't normally be indifferent cities.
And now there are areas indifferent cities where and part
of why that's a concern for usis in those open air drug
(18:39):
markets the person who isactually handing out the drugs
is very often someone who'sbeing trafficked.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
So can you go further into that.
Can you explain?
That that is just fascinatingand tragic.
Yeah, it is.
It's really sad.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So very often someone is in a position of
vulnerability because they havean addiction, and so a dealer
will say I will give you whatyou need.
I will give you drugs.
If you will stand here and bethe person who is the face
selling the drugs which putsthem at, they're then having all
(19:15):
of the risk of the criminal actabsolutely being persecuted.
I'm not persecuted, prosecuted,and it removes the risk to a
great deal for the actual dealer, the actual trafficker or the
dealer?
Yeah, and they also use them torun drugs and deliver drugs,
right.
So something else that happenedduring the pandemic is people
started getting them more onlineyou know messaging Sure and so
(19:39):
they will use them to be drugrunners, and they're going to be
the ones that are caught withthe drugs, right, and that's
just another layer ofvulnerability, exploitation, and
we see we've seen this in ourhome.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I mean that's like, okay, you got busted for, you
know, drugs or prostitution orsomething like that, but that's
not the underlying, that's notactually what's going on behind
the scenes, right?
So it's not always as cut anddry as you see people on the
news or whatever you know oryeah, that's.
That's not always the fullpicture, and I see these
(20:13):
traffickers, pimps, whatever youwant to call them like really
hiding behind multiple layers,which are people, individuals,
who are bearing the brunt,bearing the burden, receiving
the punishment that's really notdue them, you know?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
wow, it's really sad and with the crackdown on
fentanyl because it's been inthe press so much they are in
many states having really severepenalties.
So someone who is deliveringone pill yeah that contains
fentanyl now could end up with avery long-term sentence right
(20:52):
for delivering poison,especially if the person dies
and it could be someone who isbeing trafficked yeah, who,
who's being forced to do that,and that's, oh my goodness.
Yeah, and very often youngpeople, really young people.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Gosh, and then that's their whole life in front of
them, wow, so that's why youknow that kind of I won't go
into this today but that thecomplexities and the
vulnerabilities around thispopulation, the women that we're
serving, I mean we're talkingabout not only have we we've
touched on, okay, sextrafficking, forced fraud,
(21:26):
coercion, physical abuse, verbalabuse, right, but now we're
talking about a forced addiction, now we're talking about
criminality.
I mean there are so many layersto this of what a safe home
really needs to kind of know andbe prepared to go in with
services for this population.
You know it's so complex, it isum.
(21:47):
Well, is there anything else,as we wrap up, that we haven't
touched on today?
Um, around kind of what thedrug trends are, what we're
seeing, that we haven't touchedon?
That you would like ourlisteners to know.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I just I really always want to encourage people,
like find out about this,because if someone is starting
in this life, the sooner theycan get help the better.
So just like with trafficking,if you see something, say
something.
I think the same is true If youhave a friend or family member
who is acting different orsomething is just telling you
something's off or not right,especially with the potency of
the drugs that are around now.
Do not wait until you don'thave to wait until they hit a
(22:32):
bottom.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Gets bad.
Yeah, that's really good advice.
That's really really goodadvice.
Jessica, this was so amazing tohear kind of your perspective
and your knowledge.
You have such a wealth ofinformation.
So at the next episode, ourthird and final episode, we are
going to be talking morespecifically about how we touch
(22:53):
on addiction recovery within theSafe Home Program.
So I can't wait to touch onthat.
If you have enjoyed thisepisode episode, please like,
subscribe, share, spread theword.
We need people to.
We want people to be recoveredand to be these risks to be
mitigated in their lives, so wewould love for you guys to do
that.
(23:13):
We appreciate y'all listeningand, jessica, thank you so much
for joining us today.
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