August 29, 2024 • 39 mins
After adopting a daughter from China, Tom Broyles' life took a transformative turn from practicing law to pursuing mission work driven by faith and purpose. Discover how his legal expertise and faith uniquely prepared him for this impactful mission, blending professional skills with a heartfelt commitment to service. Listen as Tom shares the emotional and logistical steps they took to establish a safe home for minors, emphasizing the challenges and victories along the way.
The psychological toll of working with trauma victims is a stark theme in this episode, as Tom delves into the concept of vicarious trauma and the importance of self-care.
From the harrowing realities of sex trafficking in Houston to the cultural shifts encountered upon returning to the U.S., the resilience required for such mission-driven work is evident.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, welcome back to the Elijah Rising podcast.
Today we have a special treatfor you.
We're going to be talking abouttrafficking in Asian countries
with none other than Tom Broyles, our assistant, grant writer
and all around developmentassociate extraordinaire.
We're so grateful to have youon, tom.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah, so you know, we are going to be talking a lot
about your experiences,especially overseas and how it
relates to Houston and kind ofwhat, some of the similarities
and some of the differences are,but you had an extraordinary
career before you came to us.
Do you want to share with ourlisteners a little bit about
(00:42):
your history?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Sure, just a little background, yeah, so I well,
I'll start with.
I was raised in Abilene, texas,southern Baptist.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
And I decided to go off to university went to
University of Texas and thenwent on to law school and got
married.
My wife is from Dallas and gotmarried.
My wife is from Dallas and wekind of settled into the young
adult American lifestyle.
Maybe I should speak for myself.
We were about trying to make alot of money.
It was really what we wereabout.
And so we were busy doing that,and about eight years into that,
(01:31):
things started to change alittle for us.
We, I guess, got closer to Godand God's will and things did
start happening that we didn'texpect to happen.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Do you want to share with us?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
what those things were those things were yeah,
well, we, um, we had twochildren, um, biological
children, and then, when wethought we were finished, um, I
felt originally it was me and Ifelt like we had another child
in asia and and I was like, ohyou gotta be crazy, we were done
(02:04):
.
You know, we took care of thatyeah that's not.
And um then one night she wasup all night, um, with a picture
of a girl with black haircalling her mommy whoa and she
woke me up and said we've've gota child, we've got to go.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Wow.
So she had a dream, uh-huh Likethe Lord was.
Wow, it was a dream.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And of course I was ready to go.
So I don't remember if I hadthe documents.
If I didn't, I had them veryquickly for her.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
To sign.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I didn't want her to change her mind.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And so we did it together and we wound up
adopting our daughter, mia, andthat was a life changer, and I
think it's the more that werelied on God for what we were
going to do.
Things happened that we didn'tanticipate, that we had not seen
other people go through, and itbecame some of the hardest
things we had ever done.
But also, being in China iswhere my daughter's from, with
(03:14):
my entire family, and having ababy handed to you.
I mean it is just there's somuch wrapped up there with the
gospel about the love andadoption, and so it really
changed us.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I imagine Now at the time you were working in kind of
the legal sector is that right?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I heard you say you went to law school.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So, what was your occupation?
What?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
was your skill set.
Well, when I got out of lawschool, I started out as a
private practice attorney and Iwas in litigation and hated it
and thought, god, I am not happyhere.
And so I spoke to one of my lawprofessors and she said well,
what interests you about law?
And I was interested inenvironmental law, and so I
(04:04):
started looking for jobs in thatfield and we moved from Dallas
to Austin then and I worked inthat field for many years and
then I had the opportunity to beappointed as an administrative
law judge for the state of Texas.
So I took that at a young ageand for the next 20 some odd
(04:30):
years 23 years worked as anadministrative law judge.
And it's interesting how Godpieces all this together.
I never intended to be a stateemployee, or a judge or anything
like that.
But God had a plan, because whenI was in college I also had
worked for the state, and soyou'll see this wraps back
(04:53):
around when I'm 52 and I canretire from the state because of
the work I did in college,buying back that time, and that
allowed us to have the time togo serve what we wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
That's incredible and you're like, okay, I did not
see that coming.
We didn't see any of thiscoming.
So you can imagine our surprisewhen you came to us with this
kind of a history.
As a small local nonprofit,your resume definitely stood out
among the crowd, so to speak.
So we're really grateful thatyou're on the team now.
Thank you, so to speak so we'rereally grateful that you're on
the team now, but you also havean extraordinary history in some
(05:27):
of the, I guess, nonprofit ormissions work that you've done.
So before we get into that,would you share with our
listeners how that transitionhappened from being a judge into
missions?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
It all started in China again with following God's
call to adopt and we werelooking for some jade crosses
for family, and China has lotsof jade, and so we were talking
to I remember her name, lily,and she asked me why do
(06:03):
Americans want crosses?
And I said, well, we'reChristians.
And she said what's a Christian?
And I said, well, we followJesus.
And she said who's Jesus?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And I remember Abilene, texas Southern Baptist,
didn't?
I don't know it blew my mind?
Yeah, I don't know it blew mymind, yeah.
And so I remember walking backout and telling Ann I'm coming
back Because people just don'tknow They've never seen the love
of Jesus.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Wow, your wife probably has these experiences
with you where you go.
This is what we're doing.
It sounds like I'm coming backto China, surprise.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, she is very.
We're more of a partnership.
Yeah, and I'm kind of I don'tremember the I Love Lucy show.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Oh, I definitely watched that with my grandmother
.
Okay, I'm the crazy Lucy who'salways off.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, and she's Ethel .
Okay, we'll do this, but let'smake sure that everything's
planned.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's good.
That's a good team.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That's right, and so, with that, I started going back
to China with my best friend,who wound up being called to go
with me.
Wow, I was scared.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
You know, I was going to a communist country, Sure,
and we worked for about 10 yearsthere with friends, and some
Asian friends who had reallystarted it in China created an
underground seminary and so wewould take young adult Chinese
through a two-year program.
(07:37):
We rotated in and out seminaryprofessors from the States and
we would go in and we wouldteach them all about the Bible
and things like that, and thenthey in turn, when they
graduated, they would go start achurch and then we would help
them with the funding and thingslike that.
So, yeah, it was some amazingtimes, some amazing people that
(08:00):
I met that God brought to me.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
So tell us a little bit about at some point that
segued into your work inanti-trafficking.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
At what point did that begin, and how did that
even?
What was the genesis of that?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
You know, when we were going and working in China
a lot like we would take ourwhole family there for the whole
summer to work.
I was fortunate in being ableto do that.
We thought we'll come back tochina when I can retire and
we'll have an income so that wecan you know, pay for our way.
But that didn't work out becauseit was interesting.
(08:38):
When we were in china, we weresaying it's a good thing that
God has called us right nowbecause China is so open and it
was opening more and morebecause you never know how long
that door is going to be open.
Well, it started closing and,you know, China really shut down
from Westerners and any type ofChristians, and so we were
(09:03):
unable to go there.
But we still felt like wewanted and we were called to go
to Asia, and so we found anotherAsian country that we went to,
and that was also crazy.
My best friend said I thinkthat this might be the country.
And like four days later I goton a plane, went to that country
(09:24):
, country.
And like four days later, I goton a plane, went to that
country, touched down and bythat evening I called Ann and
said this is it?
You know, it just thinks youcould just tell this was where
we're supposed to be, and so shewent back with me to make sure
this was it?
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I'm sure she did.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And then we made our plans for me to retire and then
for us to move as a family.
Wow made our plans for me toretire and then for us to move
as a family and then to work inthis country.
My oldest daughter you know whoat the time was had graduated
from college was the one whointroduced us to anti-human
trafficking work.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
She was very you know this younger generation very
strong about justice issues and,you know, being authentic and
things like that, and so she hadbrought that to our attention.
I had also been an adjunctprofessor at the University of
Texas Law School, so I went overthere thinking I would help
(10:21):
educate, because education iscertainly the key to a lot of
opportunities.
And so I went there and therewas a Christian man that I met
that we together started auniversity and then, as that was
, it got tangled up in politicsand as that was coming to an end
(10:45):
, the anti-human traffickingcame back.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Okay, so it kind of came up on your radar.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And then how did you transition to knowing that that
was kind of the call the missionfield?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
full time.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
How did that look?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It was several months of trying to make sure that we
had it right, and my wife wasalready working with a group of
Christian NGOs to help childrenin and around the city we were
in, and so an acquaintance cameto me and he said that we're
(11:23):
trying to start this NGO andwhat we're going to do is we're
going to go rescue children whohave been trafficked, and as I
learned more and more about it,my heart just broke for them.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And definitely this is where we should go.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
So now you guys started a safe home specifically
working with minors who hadbeen rescued and doing that
rehabilitation process.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout the challenges?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
maybe that process Sure Well it's interesting
because we first started I wastraining attorneys on how to
prosecute under anti-traffickinglaws and then a friend of mine
who was a former police officerhad trained up some
investigators.
(12:12):
They were undercoverinvestigators and they would go
into the places and act likethey were going to try and buy
you know, traffic girls for sex,and so that was what was first
created and it was successful.
Yeah, and after our first raid,we got together with the
(12:34):
anti-human trafficking policeand we would go in and raid this
place with them.
We had, I think it was sixgirls, probably ages 12 to 15.
And we took them to a localcare home for children and
within five days they were allout.
(12:55):
So their traffickers had comeback and said I'm her brother
and they'd let them just go andso um, we realized, then stop
yeah we've got to have a home.
There's no play there's.
You know this is defeating what, and and that was very hard
(13:16):
because the government said nomore um children's homes.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And so it took a lot of God giving us opportunities
and meeting with people until wefound, actually, a guy who Ann
was working with in that NGOcommunity and they had a license
for a child home that they werenot using.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
No, yeah, wow so you know, we just married the two.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Thank you, you know, kind of dropped in our laps and
it took some time.
Then we had to do thefundraising several hundred
thousand dollars, and but withinprobably nine months the home
was opened.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Wow, that's incredible.
So let me just I want to pausehere, because the people
listening to this, a lot of ourlisteners, have done this work.
You know, they're in the field,have gone through a similar
process, maybe even in theStates, but I think one thing is
key to take away is that youguys came up against many
multiple obstacles, butdefinitely one where you go.
(14:18):
Okay, our model was, this partwas successful, but as we go
down the pipeline the continuumof care, if you will now we have
like this huge gap and we'relosing people, and so that's
like a key takeaway.
I see that here in the States,I see that all across the
anti-trafficking you don't knowwhat, you don't know right.
(14:38):
Exactly Until you start doingthe work and then you go oh,
wait a minute, yeah.
But the amazing story from Imean your experience is God had
the solution.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
He already had it in play.
You know, you just had to saythat, okay, we're going to take
the first.
Yes, we're going to take ourfirst step and say yes to the
Lord, exactly, and say yes tothe.
Lord, sort of blindly.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
But he knows the path .
I would tell anybody that'sgoing to do something like this
expect a lot of learning.
Yeah, that's true, and justtake it not as a defeat.
Yeah, I mean it is a setback,but you've learned something.
Take that and go forward.
Because then, miraculously, godalso introduced us to a
(15:19):
psychologist from the US who hadworked in a safe home for
minors who were victims oftrafficking in a nearby country,
who came in and he became thelead for this and really took
over the safe home.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
That's incredible.
Lead for this and really tookover the safe home.
That's incredible.
And now you guys?
I think what's so amazing toois that y'all raised up the
people there to lead it to takeover, so you were no longer
needed.
In that sense, you didn't haveto be so hands-on, which allowed
that transition back into theUnited States, which allowed
that transition back into theUnited States.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I think, almost when you go abroad, your goal should
be, absent extraordinarycircumstances, to train up the
locals because they can doeverything much better than we
can.
They just need to do thelearning and understanding, and
so we worked with Christianbrothers and sisters in a
country where Christianity isunder persecution.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It's very difficult, it's incredible.
And a lot of the Christiansaren't educated, but they're on
fire and they want to learn, andso I can tell you today that
both of those the NGO withinvestigators and attorneys, and
the aftercare home are doingmuch better now that we've left
(16:49):
Wow.
And that the locals have takenit over.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
That's an amazing story.
It's amazing, yeah, what asuccess story.
I mean you guys had so muchwork to do that you had to come
in train law enforcement, trainthe justice system.
I mean that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
But you don't know, it going in, thank goodness.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, you're like, okay, we can do this.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
We didn't know that If someone had told me you're
going to need to start anaftercare, I've been-.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, oh, wait a minute.
No, no, hang on.
There's no way we can do itafter your home, hang on.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I know nothing about that Right?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
There's no way.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
But it happens step by step and you just keep
walking.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And then all of a sudden-.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
God's done his.
Thing.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, what a legacy.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Now, one of the challenges too I think maybe
seen or unseen was whenever youguys transitioned back to the
United States.
There's always a there's a termfor it, but it's like
admissions when you come backkind of that culture shock Right
right.
Do you mind sharing with us a?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
little bit about how that happened with you guys,
I'll go ahead and tell you thatwhen I was there, it was tough
times was there.
It was tough times for mepersonally.
I went through a very toughtime.
I'd heard about the caregiversbeing impacted by trauma,
(18:12):
vicarious trauma, and thatreally hit me, and probably four
years.
We were there for six years,four years in.
You know, having a five-year-oldon the streets come up to you
and ask if he can do sexualfavors for money is devastating
(18:34):
yeah and seeing what I saw withthe girls um gang rapes and the
horrible things that werehappening to children, I was
wrecked and I had to go intocounseling and actually when I
first met you, you knew that Itold you, I guess, and I
(18:58):
remember you telling me and Idon't remember exactly what you
said, but it basically was losethe fear, and I've hung on to
that.
It's been very helpful becausethat's where I was.
I had, even through counseling,I still was.
I don't know why I'm fearful,but overcoming that and claiming
(19:19):
what I needed to claim thevictory helped me.
But I'm sorry that wasn't yourquestion.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
No, you're fine.
I think I remember saying notbeing afraid to, I guess, make
the step that the Lord iscalling you to, because what
you're talking about, thevicarious trauma, the secondary
trauma, is all very real.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And we don't want to minimize that for anybody or say
, just pray it away, cause thatyou know that's not like yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
But if the Lord is calling you into a position
knowing that he'll supply, youknow what you need as well.
So there's kind of that tensionand that balance I can't
imagine.
Yeah, because here in theStates, whenever we deal with
minor sex trafficking, it'susually it's like behind closed
(20:13):
door, not that it's any lesspernicious but it's not out on
the street corner, you don't seeit.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
We don't have it nearly as much as in some of the
Asian countries.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But my mindset was I was afraid I couldn't function.
Yeah, it wasn't pray it away oranything like that it was just
that I needed to step forward inconfidence that the counseling
and everything I had gonethrough, I had recovered and I
was ready to move forwardBecause you had done a lot of
(20:47):
work with your counselor for awhile as well.
Yeah, I came back for a visit.
This was our fourth going intoour fifth year there and I
remember talking with myphysician, he said you've either
got to come back or you've gotto get into counseling.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, and so I got into counseling and they told me
you know you, you don't need togo out anymore, yeah, and see
the things you need to um, takea step back right, take a step
back, and that was good, becauseI needed to turn it over anyway
, yeah, that's, that's healthy.
I mean, I feel like there'sonly a certain amount that the
human spirit can kind of endureRight right.
(21:25):
And even as somebody who'smaybe at one degree removed from
the trauma, it didn't happen toyou, but you are hearing about
it, you're watching it Right.
Those are very disruptive.
It's probably not even anadequate word.
And you have the images in yourmind.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Exactly yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
So if we don't as caregivers, if we don't
adequately care for ourselves inthe midst of that, we can do
more harm to us, to our families.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
You never think it'll happen to you.
Of course it wasn't going tohappen to me.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
But I think a lot of it is my strength, is my ability
to love, love, love people andto really care about them.
I think that also became aweakness.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I probably have like a high empathy.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Very high empathy.
I probably have like a highempathy, very high empathy, and
so then when you can't cut thatoff when you're trying to do
work, that is really tough youcan get drawn in and you can get
to where I was.
Thank goodness if you justcounseling and coming to an
understanding.
We were all trauma informed sowe knew about it and I could.
(22:41):
An understanding we were alltrauma-informed so we knew about
it and I could understand itbut I didn't prevent myself from
getting hit by it.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, I mean, how can you?
Yeah, exactly, how can you?
Right, and this is a sidebar,but I just think of the Lord,
even Jesus, when he was walkingin the earth, even now, when he
sits in the heavens and heintercedes for us, he doesn't
remove himself.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Right, he sees the pain Right.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
He not only sees it, he says he's right there with us
in the midst of it, exactly,and so I think it can be a very
godly thing to be in the midstof the place of pain with people
, right.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And then I needed a time, a season of rest, and so
I've had that, and now I'm readyto go fight again.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
And I'm so glad you're on our team now.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Me too.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Now there must have been kind of some surprising
things.
If we shift from Asia to theStates, specifically Houston,
where you're at now, what aresome of the differences that you
see, and was there anythingmaybe that surprised you?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Right, right, it's so interesting.
How did this surprise me andhit me so much in Houston?
Because re-entry was muchharder for me than going to Asia
.
Wow, re-entry in Americanculture is very different.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Thank goodness for a lot of things and we have some
things that you know are not sogood.
But I guess you know, aftercoming to Houston for a few
months I told Anne I'm surprisedwe ever went to Asia.
There's so much work to do here.
Wow, I had no idea the extentof illicit sex all over the city
(24:34):
.
I mean, when I learned thatthere was ways that people could
find out where to go get a listof sex and you pay a fee and
you get this list, I just Idon't know, I never thought that
happened here, and so, as I'velearned more and more, it's been
(24:55):
shocking to me.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
The extent of it.
It's been shocking to me, yeah,the extent of it, and I don't
know why.
Why is it so hard to get theword out?
I haven't worked in Houston forvery long.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
And I'm trying to understand why can we not raise
up the people to fight back tothis, and we need to find a way
to do that the people to fightback to this, and we need to
find a way to do that.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Mm-hmm, I remember when we were coming against this
robotic kind of AI brothel thatwas trying to be established
and how riled up people gotrightfully so.
It was horrific.
Thankfully it did not end upcoming into our city, but I
remember even governmentofficials but I remember even
government officials, the publicso riled up, I mean we got such
(25:43):
an outrage and I remembersomebody speaking at the council
and was like yeah, but youallow this to humans.
You're not allowing this.
You're outraged and you'redoing all these things to do
this for robots Wow, but you'renot doing this for the humans
that are right next door,literally a block away, and that
really stuck with me.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Isn't that?
It's like something where wehave become so.
I don't know if it's likecomplicit or it's like oh, this
is just how our city is, maybewe're in our own world.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I mean, I was like that for sure and still am to a
great degree.
Maybe we just can't handle somuch of it.
I don't know yeah you know, whenI I realize now that there are
Asian women who are brought toHouston, told we've got great
jobs for you, yeah, and they gethere.
They don't speak English, yeah,and then they're taken and yeah
(26:38):
, and then they're taken andinto sex trafficking.
How do they get out?
Who do they talk to?
Yeah, exactly, I don't seeanybody.
But they're trafficker.
Right, I mean, that tears me up.
Yeah, and I want to go findthem and rescue them.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
You know and hopefully you know you're doing
that and hopefully I can be apart of that.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, and I think the anti-trafficking movement as a
whole.
We're seeing at least what I'vewatched over the last decade is
similar to your journeyoverseas is that we've run a few
steps forward and we make someprogress, and then we go oh,
there's another gap.
How do we fill this gap?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
The learning.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, who's going to be raised up to fill this gap?
Now we have another gap.
Who's going to?
Yeah, who's going to be raisedup to fill this gap?
Now we have another gap, right?
So, and really the thismovement as a whole is only gosh
, 10 or 15 years old, really atthis level that we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
That's something that I learned, yeah, so to okay.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Okay, we're pretty new, or pretty young,
nevertheless.
So young, um, nevertheless.
So it does seem like, althoughthere's some similarities
between you know what we'reseeing in houston, what you're
seeing in asia?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
there are definitely differences as well, definitely
differences we don't see as many.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Not that we don't see as many minors, we just don't
see them out in the open right,like you guys did.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Which is you.
One of the things that iscommon is a lot of and I'll talk
about women or girls, becausethat's what I've worked with but
whether you're in the US or inAsia, things happen to them at a
very young age.
(28:16):
Oftentimes their parents, theirmother and dad, were drug
addicts.
They were trafficked by theirparents for money.
Poverty is a common I meanthere's a lot of commonalities
but then there are somedifferences, in that here we're
more sophisticated withinvestigations and being able to
(28:40):
find children and minors, butthe children minors who were
trafficked at a very young agethat are now 20, were not so
successful.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Were not.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
And this is all they've known for the last eight
, 10 years.
So we've got to figure that outas a society.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, and I would say that this common misconception
that people who are inprostitution are willing, and so
you see women, children whohave grown up.
Okay, now I'm 17.
I'm 16.
And somebody has more empathyor compassion or chutzpah to
come and do the rescues, do theinvestigations, but then once
they hit 18, 17, 18, it goes, oh, now they're an adult, they
(29:28):
want to be there, right, andit's like I'm the, it's the same
person, it's the sameexperience, yeah, so they, they
have not had a choice.
No.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
You're, you stay in that Right.
You know, for good or for bad.
A lot of people are born intowealth and you have
opportunities, and if you'reborn into a family of trauma and
drugs and poverty, it's hard tokick that.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
It's hard to let that go kick.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
that's all they know when you start in that way when
you're 10, 12, sometimes six.
Yeah they haven't had anychoices.
They don't have the choice whenthey're 20,.
Oh, I'm going to step out ofthis.
And all of a sudden, that's allthey know they think of.
If I don't do this, I can'tsurvive.
(30:21):
And their traffickers are somanipulative that the mental
gains and getting what I learnedhere was the number one way now
that traffickers use to keepwomen in sex traffic situations
(30:44):
is through drugs.
So they encourage them to getdrugged up and start putting
drugs into their bloodstreamsmore and more.
So then if the drugs areremoved, if they won't perform.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And they're just trapped yeah, absolutely, and
that's the reason I love ElizaRison's group that is working
with drug rehabilitations andthings like that.
Maybe that's not the correctword.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
We call it recovery, but I mean, that's exactly what
it is.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
So successful, amazing work.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Now, as we kind of come to a close, is there
anything?
We've talked about a lot aboutthe problem.
Is there anything, any storythat stands out to you, maybe on
the other side, where you'veseen really the rehabilitation
process take root, to besuccessful, if you will, and
somebody come out of that?
Because although it's sodifficult, we do see those.
(31:47):
I hate to say success stories,but that's the only thing that's
coming to my mind right now.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I mean, I hadn't thought of this, it just
popped in my mind.
I'll talk about Asian countryand then I'll talk about here.
But the Asian country, you know, I came to see our work there
as teaching people how to love.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's so good To love, like Jesus.
How do you teach someone?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
to love a child instead of to take advantage and
abuse them.
And now we see, not just fromour work but through Jesus' work
, there's 31 girls in the home.
We need a second home.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
And they're being loved on every day and they're
learning and they're breakingthat cycle.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And so I see the churches loving and that's a
victory.
I mean just the spreading oflove into countries where people
don't know how to love anyoneother than your I say other than
your family, and sometimes theway you love your family is not
(32:56):
what we would think is love.
Yeah, and then here yesterday,I've been not surprised, I've
been encouraged by formerresidents who just walk in and
say hey, family.
You're like well, yeah, eightyears ago.
(33:16):
And you see them repeatedly andthere's hugs and you really are
their long-term family Becauseyou love.
You never give up on them right, never, never, never give up.
And so yesterday we had onewoman came in and I had met her
(33:37):
before and so I knew her story,where she had been when she was
a child and her mom was addictedand had wound up going to jail
and had used her for sextrafficking and she had again
been introduced into that.
(33:59):
There's no choices for her.
When she became 18, there's nochoices.
That's all she's known herwhole life and so she came here
to.
Elijah Rising.
I think did she have four kids.
Then, you know, she came hereto Elijah Rising.
I think did she have four kidsthen.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Do you know what I'm talking about?
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I think she had four kids then, and you know, it's
just amazing how that love canreach people.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
And that you can.
It's risky for a lot of thesewomen to leave their trafficker
it is.
Yeah, they're fearful.
They have to trust us and wehave to get them out and we have
to get them safe.
Yeah and um, she went throughthe program.
Um, she also was through avocational training program here
(34:48):
and she brought something back.
She's working in that area now,I think on her own and doing
great, so she's got a good job.
She's been in a transitionalhome for many years and she came
in and she goes family.
I'm gonna buy a house oh,that's incredible, unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
It's unbelievable, it really is, and it's years.
I think what is so poignant, orit stands out, is like she went
through the program forprobably a year and a half.
She has been in transitionalcare for probably two, maybe
three years, which is likeliving independently, paying
(35:29):
rent, but still with somerecovery, and she had her
children then too right, yes,because she had lost her
children when she came here andthen through.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, amazing work, yes, and now she has
grandchildren and she'ssupporting.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
She's like the matriarch of her family.
But it took years.
It has taken years for her toget legal remedy or credit
restitution or work on all ofthat, so it's not a quick
process.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
It is not a cheap process.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Not a cheap process.
That's such a good point.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
But Christians are wealthy in America.
Okay, let me get on mydevelopment.
If you don't know, tom, ittakes a lot of money to help
these children who become adultsand to give them a chance just
an opportunity that we take forgranted, absolutely, and so I'm
excited about getting out thereand letting people know.
(36:23):
It takes a lot of money and weneed more beds and there's a lot
of work to do.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
There's a lot of work still to be done.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yes, there are, but did she always smile like?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
she smiles now.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I mean every time I see one of the former residents
walk in, even when they're hereout of a very difficult
situation and they need advice.
There's a lot of joy.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, that's so good.
Thank goodness, god sends themback to bring the joy, because
the battles that we're inotherwise can overwhelm you.
Yeah, absolutely.
There's so much more I'm surewe could cover and I hope that
you'll come back on the podcastat some point in the future, but
(37:11):
I've loved having you, tom.
We're so glad you're on theteam obviously Such a great gift
to us and I think the Lord iscrafting your story and you guys
are going to have a legacy.
Yes, a legacy of justice, ofcaring for the poor, and we were
talking about this morning inprayer and it was like if you
(37:33):
give a cup of cold water to oneof these you know, it's like
you're doing it to jesus and soI am, I feel privileged to work
alongside of you and call you my, my colleague thank you so much
, and I I honestly believe thatelijah rising has been a major
part of my healing and so Ithank you for that.
(37:54):
It's been You're welcome.
Praise God.
Where I'm ready to go, let's godo it again, god, let's do it
again.
Well, tom, thank you, and ifyou have not liked or subscribed
, please do so.
Please share this content withyour friends, with your family,
and we'll see you next time onthe Elijah Rising podcast.
Hi, welcome back to the Elijah Rising podcast.
Today we have a special treatfor you.
We're going to be talking abouttrafficking in Asian countries
with none other than Tom Broyles, our assistant, grant writer
and all around developmentassociate extraordinaire.
We're so grateful to have youon, tom.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah, so you know, we are going to be talking a lot
about your experiences,especially overseas and how it
relates to Houston and kind ofwhat, some of the similarities
and some of the differences are,but you had an extraordinary
career before you came to us.
Do you want to share with ourlisteners a little bit about
(00:42):
your history?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Sure, just a little background, yeah, so I well,
I'll start with.
I was raised in Abilene, texas,southern Baptist.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
And I decided to go off to university went to
University of Texas and thenwent on to law school and got
married.
My wife is from Dallas and gotmarried.
My wife is from Dallas and wekind of settled into the young
adult American lifestyle.
Maybe I should speak for myself.
We were about trying to make alot of money.
It was really what we wereabout.
And so we were busy doing that,and about eight years into that,
(01:31):
things started to change alittle for us.
We, I guess, got closer to Godand God's will and things did
start happening that we didn'texpect to happen.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Do you want to share with us?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
what those things were those things were yeah,
well, we, um, we had twochildren, um, biological
children, and then, when wethought we were finished, um, I
felt originally it was me and Ifelt like we had another child
in asia and and I was like, ohyou gotta be crazy, we were done
(02:04):
.
You know, we took care of thatyeah that's not.
And um then one night she wasup all night, um, with a picture
of a girl with black haircalling her mommy whoa and she
woke me up and said we've've gota child, we've got to go.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Wow.
So she had a dream, uh-huh Likethe Lord was.
Wow, it was a dream.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And of course I was ready to go.
So I don't remember if I hadthe documents.
If I didn't, I had them veryquickly for her.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
To sign.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I didn't want her to change her mind.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And so we did it together and we wound up
adopting our daughter, mia, andthat was a life changer, and I
think it's the more that werelied on God for what we were
going to do.
Things happened that we didn'tanticipate, that we had not seen
other people go through, and itbecame some of the hardest
things we had ever done.
But also, being in China iswhere my daughter's from, with
(03:14):
my entire family, and having ababy handed to you.
I mean it is just there's somuch wrapped up there with the
gospel about the love andadoption, and so it really
changed us.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I imagine Now at the time you were working in kind of
the legal sector is that right?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I heard you say you went to law school.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So, what was your occupation?
What?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
was your skill set.
Well, when I got out of lawschool, I started out as a
private practice attorney and Iwas in litigation and hated it
and thought, god, I am not happyhere.
And so I spoke to one of my lawprofessors and she said well,
what interests you about law?
And I was interested inenvironmental law, and so I
(04:04):
started looking for jobs in thatfield and we moved from Dallas
to Austin then and I worked inthat field for many years and
then I had the opportunity to beappointed as an administrative
law judge for the state of Texas.
So I took that at a young ageand for the next 20 some odd
(04:30):
years 23 years worked as anadministrative law judge.
And it's interesting how Godpieces all this together.
I never intended to be a stateemployee, or a judge or anything
like that.
But God had a plan, because whenI was in college I also had
worked for the state, and soyou'll see this wraps back
(04:53):
around when I'm 52 and I canretire from the state because of
the work I did in college,buying back that time, and that
allowed us to have the time togo serve what we wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
That's incredible and you're like, okay, I did not
see that coming.
We didn't see any of thiscoming.
So you can imagine our surprisewhen you came to us with this
kind of a history.
As a small local nonprofit,your resume definitely stood out
among the crowd, so to speak.
So we're really grateful thatyou're on the team now.
Thank you, so to speak so we'rereally grateful that you're on
the team now, but you also havean extraordinary history in some
(05:27):
of the, I guess, nonprofit ormissions work that you've done.
So before we get into that,would you share with our
listeners how that transitionhappened from being a judge into
missions?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
It all started in China again with following God's
call to adopt and we werelooking for some jade crosses
for family, and China has lotsof jade, and so we were talking
to I remember her name, lily,and she asked me why do
(06:03):
Americans want crosses?
And I said, well, we'reChristians.
And she said what's a Christian?
And I said, well, we followJesus.
And she said who's Jesus?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And I remember Abilene, texas Southern Baptist,
didn't?
I don't know it blew my mind?
Yeah, I don't know it blew mymind, yeah.
And so I remember walking backout and telling Ann I'm coming
back Because people just don'tknow They've never seen the love
of Jesus.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Wow, your wife probably has these experiences
with you where you go.
This is what we're doing.
It sounds like I'm coming backto China, surprise.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, she is very.
We're more of a partnership.
Yeah, and I'm kind of I don'tremember the I Love Lucy show.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Oh, I definitely watched that with my grandmother
.
Okay, I'm the crazy Lucy who'salways off.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, and she's Ethel .
Okay, we'll do this, but let'smake sure that everything's
planned.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's good.
That's a good team.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That's right, and so, with that, I started going back
to China with my best friend,who wound up being called to go
with me.
Wow, I was scared.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
You know, I was going to a communist country, Sure,
and we worked for about 10 yearsthere with friends, and some
Asian friends who had reallystarted it in China created an
underground seminary and so wewould take young adult Chinese
through a two-year program.
(07:37):
We rotated in and out seminaryprofessors from the States and
we would go in and we wouldteach them all about the Bible
and things like that, and thenthey in turn, when they
graduated, they would go start achurch and then we would help
them with the funding and thingslike that.
So, yeah, it was some amazingtimes, some amazing people that
(08:00):
I met that God brought to me.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
So tell us a little bit about at some point that
segued into your work inanti-trafficking.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
At what point did that begin, and how did that
even?
What was the genesis of that?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
You know, when we were going and working in China
a lot like we would take ourwhole family there for the whole
summer to work.
I was fortunate in being ableto do that.
We thought we'll come back tochina when I can retire and
we'll have an income so that wecan you know, pay for our way.
But that didn't work out becauseit was interesting.
(08:38):
When we were in china, we weresaying it's a good thing that
God has called us right nowbecause China is so open and it
was opening more and morebecause you never know how long
that door is going to be open.
Well, it started closing and,you know, China really shut down
from Westerners and any type ofChristians, and so we were
(09:03):
unable to go there.
But we still felt like wewanted and we were called to go
to Asia, and so we found anotherAsian country that we went to,
and that was also crazy.
My best friend said I thinkthat this might be the country.
And like four days later I goton a plane, went to that country
(09:24):
, country.
And like four days later, I goton a plane, went to that
country, touched down and bythat evening I called Ann and
said this is it?
You know, it just thinks youcould just tell this was where
we're supposed to be, and so shewent back with me to make sure
this was it?
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I'm sure she did.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And then we made our plans for me to retire and then
for us to move as a family.
Wow made our plans for me toretire and then for us to move
as a family and then to work inthis country.
My oldest daughter you know whoat the time was had graduated
from college was the one whointroduced us to anti-human
trafficking work.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
She was very you know this younger generation very
strong about justice issues and,you know, being authentic and
things like that, and so she hadbrought that to our attention.
I had also been an adjunctprofessor at the University of
Texas Law School, so I went overthere thinking I would help
(10:21):
educate, because education iscertainly the key to a lot of
opportunities.
And so I went there and therewas a Christian man that I met
that we together started auniversity and then, as that was
, it got tangled up in politicsand as that was coming to an end
(10:45):
, the anti-human traffickingcame back.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Okay, so it kind of came up on your radar.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And then how did you transition to knowing that that
was kind of the call the missionfield?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
full time.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
How did that look?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It was several months of trying to make sure that we
had it right, and my wife wasalready working with a group of
Christian NGOs to help childrenin and around the city we were
in, and so an acquaintance cameto me and he said that we're
(11:23):
trying to start this NGO andwhat we're going to do is we're
going to go rescue children whohave been trafficked, and as I
learned more and more about it,my heart just broke for them.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And definitely this is where we should go.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
So now you guys started a safe home specifically
working with minors who hadbeen rescued and doing that
rehabilitation process.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout the challenges?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
maybe that process Sure Well it's interesting
because we first started I wastraining attorneys on how to
prosecute under anti-traffickinglaws and then a friend of mine
who was a former police officerhad trained up some
investigators.
(12:12):
They were undercoverinvestigators and they would go
into the places and act likethey were going to try and buy
you know, traffic girls for sex,and so that was what was first
created and it was successful.
Yeah, and after our first raid,we got together with the
(12:34):
anti-human trafficking policeand we would go in and raid this
place with them.
We had, I think it was sixgirls, probably ages 12 to 15.
And we took them to a localcare home for children and
within five days they were allout.
(12:55):
So their traffickers had comeback and said I'm her brother
and they'd let them just go andso um, we realized, then stop
yeah we've got to have a home.
There's no play there's.
You know this is defeating what, and and that was very hard
(13:16):
because the government said nomore um children's homes.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And so it took a lot of God giving us opportunities
and meeting with people until wefound, actually, a guy who Ann
was working with in that NGOcommunity and they had a license
for a child home that they werenot using.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
No, yeah, wow so you know, we just married the two.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Thank you, you know, kind of dropped in our laps and
it took some time.
Then we had to do thefundraising several hundred
thousand dollars, and but withinprobably nine months the home
was opened.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Wow, that's incredible.
So let me just I want to pausehere, because the people
listening to this, a lot of ourlisteners, have done this work.
You know, they're in the field,have gone through a similar
process, maybe even in theStates, but I think one thing is
key to take away is that youguys came up against many
multiple obstacles, butdefinitely one where you go.
(14:18):
Okay, our model was, this partwas successful, but as we go
down the pipeline the continuumof care, if you will now we have
like this huge gap and we'relosing people, and so that's
like a key takeaway.
I see that here in the States,I see that all across the
anti-trafficking you don't knowwhat, you don't know right.
(14:38):
Exactly Until you start doingthe work and then you go oh,
wait a minute, yeah.
But the amazing story from Imean your experience is God had
the solution.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
He already had it in play.
You know, you just had to saythat, okay, we're going to take
the first.
Yes, we're going to take ourfirst step and say yes to the
Lord, exactly, and say yes tothe.
Lord, sort of blindly.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
But he knows the path .
I would tell anybody that'sgoing to do something like this
expect a lot of learning.
Yeah, that's true, and justtake it not as a defeat.
Yeah, I mean it is a setback,but you've learned something.
Take that and go forward.
Because then, miraculously, godalso introduced us to a
(15:19):
psychologist from the US who hadworked in a safe home for
minors who were victims oftrafficking in a nearby country,
who came in and he became thelead for this and really took
over the safe home.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
That's incredible.
Lead for this and really tookover the safe home.
That's incredible.
And now you guys?
I think what's so amazing toois that y'all raised up the
people there to lead it to takeover, so you were no longer
needed.
In that sense, you didn't haveto be so hands-on, which allowed
that transition back into theUnited States, which allowed
that transition back into theUnited States.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I think, almost when you go abroad, your goal should
be, absent extraordinarycircumstances, to train up the
locals because they can doeverything much better than we
can.
They just need to do thelearning and understanding, and
so we worked with Christianbrothers and sisters in a
country where Christianity isunder persecution.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It's very difficult, it's incredible.
And a lot of the Christiansaren't educated, but they're on
fire and they want to learn, andso I can tell you today that
both of those the NGO withinvestigators and attorneys, and
the aftercare home are doingmuch better now that we've left
(16:49):
Wow.
And that the locals have takenit over.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
That's an amazing story.
It's amazing, yeah, what asuccess story.
I mean you guys had so muchwork to do that you had to come
in train law enforcement, trainthe justice system.
I mean that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
But you don't know, it going in, thank goodness.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, you're like, okay, we can do this.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
We didn't know that If someone had told me you're
going to need to start anaftercare, I've been-.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, oh, wait a minute.
No, no, hang on.
There's no way we can do itafter your home, hang on.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I know nothing about that Right?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
There's no way.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
But it happens step by step and you just keep
walking.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And then all of a sudden-.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
God's done his.
Thing.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, what a legacy.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Now, one of the challenges too I think maybe
seen or unseen was whenever youguys transitioned back to the
United States.
There's always a there's a termfor it, but it's like
admissions when you come backkind of that culture shock Right
right.
Do you mind sharing with us a?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
little bit about how that happened with you guys,
I'll go ahead and tell you thatwhen I was there, it was tough
times was there.
It was tough times for mepersonally.
I went through a very toughtime.
I'd heard about the caregiversbeing impacted by trauma,
(18:12):
vicarious trauma, and thatreally hit me, and probably four
years.
We were there for six years,four years in.
You know, having a five-year-oldon the streets come up to you
and ask if he can do sexualfavors for money is devastating
(18:34):
yeah and seeing what I saw withthe girls um gang rapes and the
horrible things that werehappening to children, I was
wrecked and I had to go intocounseling and actually when I
first met you, you knew that Itold you, I guess, and I
(18:58):
remember you telling me and Idon't remember exactly what you
said, but it basically was losethe fear, and I've hung on to
that.
It's been very helpful becausethat's where I was.
I had, even through counseling,I still was.
I don't know why I'm fearful,but overcoming that and claiming
(19:19):
what I needed to claim thevictory helped me.
But I'm sorry that wasn't yourquestion.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
No, you're fine.
I think I remember saying notbeing afraid to, I guess, make
the step that the Lord iscalling you to, because what
you're talking about, thevicarious trauma, the secondary
trauma, is all very real.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And we don't want to minimize that for anybody or say
, just pray it away, cause thatyou know that's not like yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
But if the Lord is calling you into a position
knowing that he'll supply, youknow what you need as well.
So there's kind of that tensionand that balance I can't
imagine.
Yeah, because here in theStates, whenever we deal with
minor sex trafficking, it'susually it's like behind closed
(20:13):
door, not that it's any lesspernicious but it's not out on
the street corner, you don't seeit.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
We don't have it nearly as much as in some of the
Asian countries.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But my mindset was I was afraid I couldn't function.
Yeah, it wasn't pray it away oranything like that it was just
that I needed to step forward inconfidence that the counseling
and everything I had gonethrough, I had recovered and I
was ready to move forwardBecause you had done a lot of
(20:47):
work with your counselor for awhile as well.
Yeah, I came back for a visit.
This was our fourth going intoour fifth year there and I
remember talking with myphysician, he said you've either
got to come back or you've gotto get into counseling.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, and so I got into counseling and they told me
you know you, you don't need togo out anymore, yeah, and see
the things you need to um, takea step back right, take a step
back, and that was good, becauseI needed to turn it over anyway
, yeah, that's, that's healthy.
I mean, I feel like there'sonly a certain amount that the
human spirit can kind of endureRight right.
(21:25):
And even as somebody who'smaybe at one degree removed from
the trauma, it didn't happen toyou, but you are hearing about
it, you're watching it Right.
Those are very disruptive.
It's probably not even anadequate word.
And you have the images in yourmind.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Exactly yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
So if we don't as caregivers, if we don't
adequately care for ourselves inthe midst of that, we can do
more harm to us, to our families.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
You never think it'll happen to you.
Of course it wasn't going tohappen to me.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
But I think a lot of it is my strength, is my ability
to love, love, love people andto really care about them.
I think that also became aweakness.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I probably have like a high empathy.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Very high empathy.
I probably have like a highempathy, very high empathy, and
so then when you can't cut thatoff when you're trying to do
work, that is really tough youcan get drawn in and you can get
to where I was.
Thank goodness if you justcounseling and coming to an
understanding.
We were all trauma informed sowe knew about it and I could.
(22:41):
An understanding we were alltrauma-informed so we knew about
it and I could understand itbut I didn't prevent myself from
getting hit by it.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, I mean, how can you?
Yeah, exactly, how can you?
Right, and this is a sidebar,but I just think of the Lord,
even Jesus, when he was walkingin the earth, even now, when he
sits in the heavens and heintercedes for us, he doesn't
remove himself.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Right, he sees the pain Right.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
He not only sees it, he says he's right there with us
in the midst of it, exactly,and so I think it can be a very
godly thing to be in the midstof the place of pain with people
, right.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And then I needed a time, a season of rest, and so
I've had that, and now I'm readyto go fight again.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
And I'm so glad you're on our team now.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Me too.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Now there must have been kind of some surprising
things.
If we shift from Asia to theStates, specifically Houston,
where you're at now, what aresome of the differences that you
see, and was there anythingmaybe that surprised you?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Right, right, it's so interesting.
How did this surprise me andhit me so much in Houston?
Because re-entry was muchharder for me than going to Asia
.
Wow, re-entry in Americanculture is very different.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Thank goodness for a lot of things and we have some
things that you know are not sogood.
But I guess you know, aftercoming to Houston for a few
months I told Anne I'm surprisedwe ever went to Asia.
There's so much work to do here.
Wow, I had no idea the extentof illicit sex all over the city
(24:34):
.
I mean, when I learned thatthere was ways that people could
find out where to go get a listof sex and you pay a fee and
you get this list, I just Idon't know, I never thought that
happened here, and so, as I'velearned more and more, it's been
(24:55):
shocking to me.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
The extent of it.
It's been shocking to me, yeah,the extent of it, and I don't
know why.
Why is it so hard to get theword out?
I haven't worked in Houston forvery long.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
And I'm trying to understand why can we not raise
up the people to fight back tothis, and we need to find a way
to do that the people to fightback to this, and we need to
find a way to do that.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Mm-hmm, I remember when we were coming against this
robotic kind of AI brothel thatwas trying to be established
and how riled up people gotrightfully so.
It was horrific.
Thankfully it did not end upcoming into our city, but I
remember even governmentofficials but I remember even
government officials, the publicso riled up, I mean we got such
(25:43):
an outrage and I remembersomebody speaking at the council
and was like yeah, but youallow this to humans.
You're not allowing this.
You're outraged and you'redoing all these things to do
this for robots Wow, but you'renot doing this for the humans
that are right next door,literally a block away, and that
really stuck with me.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Isn't that?
It's like something where wehave become so.
I don't know if it's likecomplicit or it's like oh, this
is just how our city is, maybewe're in our own world.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I mean, I was like that for sure and still am to a
great degree.
Maybe we just can't handle somuch of it.
I don't know yeah you know, whenI I realize now that there are
Asian women who are brought toHouston, told we've got great
jobs for you, yeah, and they gethere.
They don't speak English, yeah,and then they're taken and yeah
(26:38):
, and then they're taken andinto sex trafficking.
How do they get out?
Who do they talk to?
Yeah, exactly, I don't seeanybody.
But they're trafficker.
Right, I mean, that tears me up.
Yeah, and I want to go findthem and rescue them.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
You know and hopefully you know you're doing
that and hopefully I can be apart of that.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, and I think the anti-trafficking movement as a
whole.
We're seeing at least what I'vewatched over the last decade is
similar to your journeyoverseas is that we've run a few
steps forward and we make someprogress, and then we go oh,
there's another gap.
How do we fill this gap?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
The learning.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, who's going to be raised up to fill this gap?
Now we have another gap.
Who's going to?
Yeah, who's going to be raisedup to fill this gap?
Now we have another gap, right?
So, and really the thismovement as a whole is only gosh
, 10 or 15 years old, really atthis level that we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
That's something that I learned, yeah, so to okay.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Okay, we're pretty new, or pretty young,
nevertheless.
So young, um, nevertheless.
So it does seem like, althoughthere's some similarities
between you know what we'reseeing in houston, what you're
seeing in asia?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
there are definitely differences as well, definitely
differences we don't see as many.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Not that we don't see as many minors, we just don't
see them out in the open right,like you guys did.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Which is you.
One of the things that iscommon is a lot of and I'll talk
about women or girls, becausethat's what I've worked with but
whether you're in the US or inAsia, things happen to them at a
very young age.
(28:16):
Oftentimes their parents, theirmother and dad, were drug
addicts.
They were trafficked by theirparents for money.
Poverty is a common I meanthere's a lot of commonalities
but then there are somedifferences, in that here we're
more sophisticated withinvestigations and being able to
(28:40):
find children and minors, butthe children minors who were
trafficked at a very young agethat are now 20, were not so
successful.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Were not.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
And this is all they've known for the last eight
, 10 years.
So we've got to figure that outas a society.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, and I would say that this common misconception
that people who are inprostitution are willing, and so
you see women, children whohave grown up.
Okay, now I'm 17.
I'm 16.
And somebody has more empathyor compassion or chutzpah to
come and do the rescues, do theinvestigations, but then once
they hit 18, 17, 18, it goes, oh, now they're an adult, they
(29:28):
want to be there, right, andit's like I'm the, it's the same
person, it's the sameexperience, yeah, so they, they
have not had a choice.
No.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
You're, you stay in that Right.
You know, for good or for bad.
A lot of people are born intowealth and you have
opportunities, and if you'reborn into a family of trauma and
drugs and poverty, it's hard tokick that.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
It's hard to let that go kick.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
that's all they know when you start in that way when
you're 10, 12, sometimes six.
Yeah they haven't had anychoices.
They don't have the choice whenthey're 20,.
Oh, I'm going to step out ofthis.
And all of a sudden, that's allthey know they think of.
If I don't do this, I can'tsurvive.
(30:21):
And their traffickers are somanipulative that the mental
gains and getting what I learnedhere was the number one way now
that traffickers use to keepwomen in sex traffic situations
(30:44):
is through drugs.
So they encourage them to getdrugged up and start putting
drugs into their bloodstreamsmore and more.
So then if the drugs areremoved, if they won't perform.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And they're just trapped yeah, absolutely, and
that's the reason I love ElizaRison's group that is working
with drug rehabilitations andthings like that.
Maybe that's not the correctword.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
We call it recovery, but I mean, that's exactly what
it is.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
So successful, amazing work.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Now, as we kind of come to a close, is there
anything?
We've talked about a lot aboutthe problem.
Is there anything, any storythat stands out to you, maybe on
the other side, where you'veseen really the rehabilitation
process take root, to besuccessful, if you will, and
somebody come out of that?
Because although it's sodifficult, we do see those.
(31:47):
I hate to say success stories,but that's the only thing that's
coming to my mind right now.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I mean, I hadn't thought of this, it just
popped in my mind.
I'll talk about Asian countryand then I'll talk about here.
But the Asian country, you know, I came to see our work there
as teaching people how to love.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's so good To love, like Jesus.
How do you teach someone?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
to love a child instead of to take advantage and
abuse them.
And now we see, not just fromour work but through Jesus' work
, there's 31 girls in the home.
We need a second home.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
And they're being loved on every day and they're
learning and they're breakingthat cycle.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And so I see the churches loving and that's a
victory.
I mean just the spreading oflove into countries where people
don't know how to love anyoneother than your I say other than
your family, and sometimes theway you love your family is not
(32:56):
what we would think is love.
Yeah, and then here yesterday,I've been not surprised, I've
been encouraged by formerresidents who just walk in and
say hey, family.
You're like well, yeah, eightyears ago.
(33:16):
And you see them repeatedly andthere's hugs and you really are
their long-term family Becauseyou love.
You never give up on them right, never, never, never give up.
And so yesterday we had onewoman came in and I had met her
(33:37):
before and so I knew her story,where she had been when she was
a child and her mom was addictedand had wound up going to jail
and had used her for sextrafficking and she had again
been introduced into that.
(33:59):
There's no choices for her.
When she became 18, there's nochoices.
That's all she's known herwhole life and so she came here
to.
Elijah Rising.
I think did she have four kids.
Then, you know, she came hereto Elijah Rising.
I think did she have four kidsthen.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Do you know what I'm talking about?
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I think she had four kids then, and you know, it's
just amazing how that love canreach people.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
And that you can.
It's risky for a lot of thesewomen to leave their trafficker
it is.
Yeah, they're fearful.
They have to trust us and wehave to get them out and we have
to get them safe.
Yeah and um, she went throughthe program.
Um, she also was through avocational training program here
(34:48):
and she brought something back.
She's working in that area now,I think on her own and doing
great, so she's got a good job.
She's been in a transitionalhome for many years and she came
in and she goes family.
I'm gonna buy a house oh,that's incredible, unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
It's unbelievable, it really is, and it's years.
I think what is so poignant, orit stands out, is like she went
through the program forprobably a year and a half.
She has been in transitionalcare for probably two, maybe
three years, which is likeliving independently, paying
(35:29):
rent, but still with somerecovery, and she had her
children then too right, yes,because she had lost her
children when she came here andthen through.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, amazing work, yes, and now she has
grandchildren and she'ssupporting.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
She's like the matriarch of her family.
But it took years.
It has taken years for her toget legal remedy or credit
restitution or work on all ofthat, so it's not a quick
process.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
It is not a cheap process.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Not a cheap process.
That's such a good point.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
But Christians are wealthy in America.
Okay, let me get on mydevelopment.
If you don't know, tom, ittakes a lot of money to help
these children who become adultsand to give them a chance just
an opportunity that we take forgranted, absolutely, and so I'm
excited about getting out thereand letting people know.
(36:23):
It takes a lot of money and weneed more beds and there's a lot
of work to do.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
There's a lot of work still to be done.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yes, there are, but did she always smile like?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
she smiles now.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I mean every time I see one of the former residents
walk in, even when they're hereout of a very difficult
situation and they need advice.
There's a lot of joy.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, that's so good.
Thank goodness, god sends themback to bring the joy, because
the battles that we're inotherwise can overwhelm you.
Yeah, absolutely.
There's so much more I'm surewe could cover and I hope that
you'll come back on the podcastat some point in the future, but
(37:11):
I've loved having you, tom.
We're so glad you're on theteam obviously Such a great gift
to us and I think the Lord iscrafting your story and you guys
are going to have a legacy.
Yes, a legacy of justice, ofcaring for the poor, and we were
talking about this morning inprayer and it was like if you
(37:33):
give a cup of cold water to oneof these you know, it's like
you're doing it to jesus and soI am, I feel privileged to work
alongside of you and call you my, my colleague thank you so much
, and I I honestly believe thatelijah rising has been a major
part of my healing and so Ithank you for that.
(37:54):
It's been You're welcome.
Praise God.
Where I'm ready to go, let's godo it again, god, let's do it
again.
Well, tom, thank you, and ifyou have not liked or subscribed
, please do so.
Please share this content withyour friends, with your family,
and we'll see you next time onthe Elijah Rising podcast.
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