Growing a Network of Church Planters - Steve Kempton

Steve Kempton hosts Elim Global leaders to share what they have learned from planting 200+ churches and what God can do through people willing to go where He sends them.

Steve is a former Elim missionary to Nepal and is Senior Pastor at Holy Trinity Church in Weston Super Mare. Steve is facilitating Elim’s church planting programme and training church planters around the world.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Well, good afternoon. Welcome you few Hardy souls who
have made it to this gathering. Now, we're really excited that
you're here and thank you for investing this next hour into
this particular session where we're going to be looking at
many different aspects of churchplanting.
And I'll be introducing a numberof friends who are practitioners

(00:24):
with regards to church planting in a global context.
And it's great just to be able to share with you some of their
insights and hopefully that the Holy Spirit might whisper
something to you as we journey together.
I'm always encouraged that smallis good.
Churches grow bigger when they grow smaller in the context of

(00:47):
influence. And, and I think that's a really
biblical principle. Paul did it, as we will see, and
also Jesus, that he spent most of his time, as we know, with
just a few, and those few were the ones with the ancients of
change around the known world atthat time.
So we're going on a bit of a journey today.
I hope that you'll stay with us the whole whole way and there'll

(01:10):
be a few little kind of moments where we'll look at some
reflections and a few things that different people have said
about different aspects of church planting as we journey
along. But what I want to do is spend a
lot of time with the guys who I'm going to introduce to you in
about 1520 minutes. I just want to give a little bit
of an introduction to, you know,the subject of where we're going
today. And I'm just going to begin by a

(01:32):
short prayer and then we will commence together.
Hope that's OK with everyone. That's great.
I'll introduce myself as well after I've done that.
So, Lord, we thank you for this amazing opportunity.
However we found ourselves, Lord, into this particular
seminar, nothing is by chance. And you know all things.

(01:54):
And you are able to speak, Lord,in ways that are amazing and
creative. And I just pray that you will
lead and guide us, Holy Spirit, and that you will speak through
each of the guys who are going to be participating today and
that, Lord, that you will. Yeah, just really rest upon us
at this moment in Jesus name, Amen.

(02:18):
Amen. My name is Steve.
Steve Kempton. I'm actually a minister from
Weston Super In fact, a lot of what I we

(02:40):
endured together went through, we had to do a lot of unlearning
to get to a place where we couldthen be moulded and shaped for
what the Lord wanted to do. And over a period of time, my
good friend Bob Galli, who is inNepali National and my probably
one of my best friends, we journeyed together to see a
number of churches planted. And we went from an additional

(03:01):
model of church planting to a multiplication model over a
period of time where we've now seen hundreds of churches
planted across Nepal. And that was wonderful to see.
And there were some great principles that we've learnt.
And today what we want to do is to sharpen, we want to quicken
and we want to allow this time together to be one that will be

(03:23):
not just information, but hopefully a little bit of
revelation and inspiration too. Now, you know, when we look at
the Bible, which hopefully we'veall got and we've all read, we
recognise that this book has thepower to change and transform as
we understand that it has the power to to quicken our hearts

(03:43):
and our minds and our spirits. But it also provokes us and
agitates us, doesn't it? But one of the primary functions
of the Scriptures is that it brings the revelation of God.
It reveals to us the truth of God's heart and his mind and his
plans. And so it's a very dangerous
book in so many, so many ways. And my topic this afternoon is

(04:04):
entitled Church Planting, which is a very wide subject to cover
in 50 minutes really. And so rather than thinking
today that we're going to, you know, teach principles of church
planting, we've decided this is going to be an opportunity to
envision, to enlarge, and to rally folk.
And it's a moment where I also want to introduce a number of

(04:26):
friends who the Lord is using globally in this whole area of
church planting. And for me, that's a really
exciting thing that we're going to be doing.
Now just to set the tone as we begin our journey, we're going
to be looking at one particular scripture because we don't have
time in this little introduction.
I've, I've long favoured this this scripture, it's found in

(04:48):
the book of Acts and it's about Paul and Silas.
And they arrived in this place called Thessalonica.
And it says they began to preachthe gospel to a large crowd.
And it says a lot of people became Christians, which is a
great thing. But it also, it stirred up
animosity. It stirred up an enemy in many
ways. And it says they're in Acts 17,

(05:09):
don't have time to read it when it says that a mob was stirred,
there was almost a riot that wascalled.
And it says they began to shout out these men have caused
trouble all over the world. And I think that verse is
majestic. I think that verse is.
I just stop at that verse and I think, yes, now I've never been

(05:32):
in a riot or in a in a hostile situation, I'm sure like that.
But the sentiments behind that, something's happening here to
disturb things. Something's been brought to
change the way things have always been.
And that's what happens when theagents of change, when the
church and it's the message of the gospel goes into any kind of
culture it provokes and it agitates and there's a response

(05:56):
to the gospel and these men, it says cause trouble all over the
world. I think that is symptomatic of
any man or woman who dares to involve themself in building the
Kingdom of God or working with the Holy Spirit in the building
of the Kingdom of God. And my sincere prayer today is
that in this room there will be men and women who want to cause

(06:20):
trouble. It sounds very quiet out there,
but that's my hope, that we're going to cause a little bit of
trouble. Now, I love what this gentleman,
Ralph Winter said, and I agree with those sentiments.
To follow Jesus is to go to war.We we often err on the side of

(06:43):
peace because obviously we are peacemakers, but at the same
time we are agitators of what isthe Kingdom of darkness and, and
wherever God causes us to be. We're recognising that we are
going to be provoking those spiritual principalities and
powers wherever we are. And when it comes to church
planting, I think this verse Acts chapter 17 is the graphic

(07:06):
insight of the genuine effects that church planting has.
This is what I found is the response that can provoke great
many people will get saved, but also it provokes something as
well. It really does.
And one of the pictures that I often use in training of a
church planter. What does a church planter look
like? I wonder if you could look to

(07:27):
the person next to you and thinkis that what a church planter
looks like? I wonder what I do want to ask
you. I think it's not me, it's not
me, but I, I've got, I've, I've often used this image of what a
church planter look like. I think a church planter looks
like this. And, and that that the church
planter is the cat. And there's the cat walking in

(07:48):
front of all of this kind of, you know, you know, ferocious
enemy that's there. And the, the one thing I love
about this particular picture isthe cats not even giving any
attention to the dogs. There's this sense of, you know,
you know, audaciousness, this sense of this sense of it
doesn't matter what's happening around because this cat is

(08:09):
unconcerned in that sense. So this is what I often use.
I, I, I think this, there's thiscourage involved in this,
there's clearly calling that's involved in the whole journey of
church planting and this audacious spirit that's
required. And the scripture says that this
mob of people that were in Thessalonica, they accused Paul

(08:32):
and Silas of causing trouble allaround the world.
And I would love that to be the DNA of Ealing missions, Ealing
Global and anything that we do as a movement from this day
forward that we were trouble causes around the world.
And it also says Paul and Silas are specifically accused of

(08:56):
disturbing the city and defying Caesar's decrease.
That's what it actually says when you read the chapter.
They're defying the the Caesar'sdecrease.
And I like that also because what in effect they're doing is
they're changing culture. They're changing culture.
They're introducing to the unreached world a new Kingdom

(09:17):
and a new way. And it's clear from the
scripture that Paul and Silas were not dancing to the tune or
the rhythm of the world or its pervading culture.
They were not dancing to the rhythm of the world.
They were introducing something new.

(09:39):
I've often been influenced by, you know, the Celtic Fathers
with regards to the journey. I've often read into a lot of
these men and women who in the 5th and 6th century had a real
understanding of what it meant to, to follow God in obedience.
And one particular man is a guy called Brendan the Navigator.

(10:00):
And you're probably thinking, where on earth are we going with
this? And but I I love what Brendan
the Navigator said. This is his prayer in the 5th
century. Help me.
It's a good way to start a prayer, isn't it?
Help me to journey beyond the familiar and into the unknown.

(10:26):
Give me faith to leave old ways.You need often more faith to
leave what you've always done before you start doing something
that you've never done. But he says, give me faith to
leave old ways and break fresh ground with you.
Tune my spirit to the music of heaven and somehow make my

(10:51):
obedience count for you. Tune my spirit to the heartbeat,
to the rhythm of heaven. Paul and Silas were tuned into
the music and the rhythm of heaven.
The mob accused Paul and Silas of turning the world upside

(11:12):
down. They are disturbing the existing
spiritual, social and political order of the day.
And I love the term all over theworld, all over the world.
And it highlights the impact of Paul and Silas's preaching and

(11:33):
their actions. Theirs is not simple a local
initiative. Theirs is a cosmic global
vision. Love the word cosmic.
It's a really, really interesting word.
And you know, it says to me, youknow, and it's echoing the words
of Jesus to go to the highways, the byways.

(11:53):
It's the it's going to those whohave never heard.
It's going into all the world. It's going into the systems of
the world. Cosmic means the systems of the
world, the health system, the political systems, the judicial
systems, wherever people meet, he says, that's where you're
meant to be. It's what the word means,
cosmic. These men have caused trouble
all over the world. So this afternoon I I, I hope

(12:18):
that this takes hold of your heart and of your spirit and
something that will begin to arise in your own mind.
How important it is, you know, to be agitators and to cause
trouble. And I, I, I was privileged just
to be at the Ealing Global Conference last week again
amongst the men and women who are, are practitioners.

(12:40):
And So what I wanted to do, rather than just talk about this
here myself, I think it's alwaysgood to be able to introduce,
you know, folk who have got some, you know, some knowledge
and experience and in the field and for you to be inspired by
what God is been doing through them.
Before I do that, I just want tolook at one more particular

(13:02):
quote by a man called John Stott.
John Stott, he's well known, I'msure to most of us.
And then I love the story of John Stott because John Stott
was lived a very simple lifestyle.
He gave a lot of what he made inall of his books that he wrote
to missions. He invested a lot of time and
effort into missions. And I love what he said.

(13:23):
He says we must be global Christians with a global vision
because our God is a global God.And so we know that the the the
earth and that the world is where God's arena of ministry he
where that's where that takes place and that's what he wants

(13:43):
us to be involved with. So these two men, Paul and
Silas, sound like troublemakers.And I've often wanted to stand
with people who don't talk a lot, but actually they they,
they learn by what they do. When you want to be around
people who have practiced thingsand you can be sharpened by
them. And I think there's something
really powerful in in in in journey alongside men like this.

(14:07):
So I'm going to invite Chim Knapp who is the from Ealing
Cambodia, leads to the work out there and has been involved in
church planting and Mark King also who has been a missionary
in the Philippines. And also Jomo Mertens, who is
the leader of our Ealing churches in in Guyana.
And I've asked them to come to the stage and I'm going to be

(14:30):
asking them a series of questions with regards to their
experiences and with regards to their insights when it comes to
initiating and starting church planting movements.
And so that's the flavor of where we're going to go.
I'm going to ask them a number of questions and hopefully you
will be able to to glean and have a have a real insight on on

(14:52):
with regards to the answers thatthey're going to to give to us.
So should we give them a little ripple?
I don't know what it sounds likein here.
Thank you. So it's really great to have you
guys with us and I wanted to aska number of questions.
And I'm first, it's great that you've got the microphone,

(15:12):
Chimnap and Chimnap, just introduce yourself a little bit
and just tell us where you're from and what you're involved
with. Yeah.
Thank you, Steve. Good afternoon, guys.
And my name is Chimnap. I'm from Cambodia.
Cambodia is a very hot country and I'm freezing cold out out
here. I know it's your summer, but in

(15:32):
Cambodia we have hot season and hot season.
So yeah, I involve a lot in the trick planting and I lead the LM
Cambodia trick painting movementas well as the churches in the
cities and many other different ministries that we are doing.
Fantastic. Now I wonder if you could begin
by explaining to us from your perspective how how does a

(15:55):
church planting movement start? What do you do?
You're, you're sat by yourself and say we're going to start a
church planting movement. What?
Where? Where do you even begin in that
process? Yeah, thank you, Steve.
Actually before I started this church planting movement, I have
no idea what church planting is was I attended LM Global

(16:16):
Conference in 2018 and then Steve started to talk about
church planting and Bob Gal starting talking about church
planting. I was praying that what is that
things, what is that trick planting things.
And then when I got back to Cambodia, I travel a lot and I
have seen in my my people in other provinces, in other
villages that there are not manyChristians.

(16:39):
Cambodia, the Buddhist country, we got less than 2% Christians
of our 17,000,000 populations. And then I started to pray and I
I heard the calling. This isn't This is why you left
all the secular work and come toLM Cambodia.
Is this your moment? God called me to do shape

(17:01):
planting with that one vision ofencountering moment with God.
You know, I like Steve said, whenever you read the Bible,
whenever you have that things, this book is very dangerous.
God's calling is even more dangerous.
When you got that divine encounter moment with God and

(17:22):
God put this calling into you. Your life guys, you could not
sleep, you could not eat. You started to only whip for the
people that are out there that Ihave no hope that when they die
they will go to hell and you don't want that to happen to

(17:44):
your people. I had that encountering moment
with God and for a couple of months I could not sleep.
I started to do crazy things. I started to fight with my wife,
which I don't normally do. Your guys when you got married
and fight with your wife and I started to only meditate and the
word trick planting really got me and then I started to e-mail

(18:08):
to this guy. That's when Cambodian trick
planting movement started. So it started with a calling and
an encounter with the Holy Spirit, and you grew restless in
your heart and in your soul and in your spirit that you knew
that God was calling you to do that.
Yes, yes, absolutely. So you would advocate then it
starts with that calling of God.It's not just a good idea and

(18:31):
something that you really need to, but you wrestled with God.
Yeah, and there was an urgency in Cambodia because trick
planting is not about trick planting.
It's not about how numbers of churches you are planted
actually, it's about how many new believers that are into the

(18:52):
movement. And then when I studied this
shake planting, that is different level of shake
planting. And I will talk later on the
journey this afternoon. And it's it's how many people,
how many new people and believers come to Christ that's
what matters the most. There's a lot we could go into

(19:13):
with regards to methodologies and strategies, but it starts
with that heart and being open to God to say, Lord, you know, I
can't help myself. Paul often talked about feeling
compelled. He couldn't help himself.
He just, he just knew he had to do that.
And there was a sense of God whispering and he whispers still
to each and every one of us. And, and it's sometimes the most

(19:35):
unlikely people, isn't it, that that God calls?
Yeah, when I had that vision, Steve, I did not have the
strategy. I did not have the money.
I did not have the people. I did not have to know how.
I didn't have any book on trade planting.

(19:55):
But I know when God give you thevision, just need to stick to it
and meditate on it. Pray, pray on it at the right
time. God will give you the right
people. At the right time, God will give
you the right strategy. We're still working on it, guys.
And at the right time, God will you will give you the money to

(20:18):
do it. Amen.
Now we're going to come back to Cambodia in just a moment, but
we're just going to move on to to Mark.
Mark is mission director for theEaling Church and a missionary
to the Philippines and also working in many nations in the
world and got a lot of experience.
And I wanted to ask you, Mark, in your experience after
visiting many nations, what are the common traits that you found

(20:42):
in church planting movements? What are the the the the traits
that you think are are almost always there at the beginning
and as you journey through you know what what are the qualities
that are are required? Thanks, Steve.
Good, good afternoon everyone. Well, I thinking about the
people that I'm dealing with in many different nations and and

(21:05):
different contexts, people who have gone on to plant or
multiplying churches, not just one off church, but churches
that multiply. I always, always seen in them
that they have an amazing in depth love of, of, of Jesus.

(21:26):
They must love Jesus. We must love Jesus.
They have an undying love and fondness for Jesus church as
well. So they love Jesus, they love
the church and also they love the lost.
Those three things are paramount.
Before we say, oh, I've got to be, I want to be a church
planter. If you don't have a love, love
for Jesus, love for his church and a a a love for the lost,

(21:49):
then you can't really get off first base.
There are many, many things I would say, obviously things like
prayer, foundations, everything that we do is prayer.
You're talking about vision. I remember when myself, my wife
is here and our three children went off to the, oh, God called
us off to the Philippines about 20 years ago.

(22:11):
I went with a, with a, with a, abook, which I, which is like
basically, I'll resume. It was 40 pages thick and I was
there was a page for me, my three children, my wife, but the
front page was the vision. And when we got there after a
week, I threw away 39 pages and I was left with one, which was a

(22:33):
vision which was still in place to this day.
Since the prayer there's there'san undying love for Jesus, his
his church and the lost, but also and prayer but also there
must be a clear vision whenever I've come into contact with
people like these guys here and yourself.
Steve is a is a a clear but simple vision, uncomplicated

(22:55):
simple vision. Also Robin shoulder with these
guys as well and and others, thedivisions always based around it
and and the two scriptures that have always have been our
guiding path have been obviouslythe Great Commission Matthew
2818 to 20 going to the world and make disciples, but also

(23:16):
kind of hinge to that is to Timothy 2-2.
Maybe Steve might come to that later on, but like which which
is whatever you Paul saying to Timothy, whatever you have
learnt from me, pass it on to other reliable people or
reliable men, he says, or reliable people so that they
will go and do the same thing. So there has been a God.

(23:38):
God has always raised up a, a person or maybe 2, at least two
people, but they have been reproduced, reproducing in, in,
in their hearts. And so they've always, I've,
I've seen these traits in peoplethat yes, they're going after
the Great Commission, but they always look that if I leave this
Earth tomorrow, who am I gonna hand over the Batman to?

(23:59):
So Steve, I could go on. There's so many traits, but
there are some little morsels ofwhat what I've experienced in.
So it starts with a calling, butthen there are certain traits
that we found within, you know, the birthing and the how, how
movements move and how they go forward and qualities that are,
you know, principles that are, you know, that never changed in

(24:21):
prayer and focus and and that vision is really key.
I know that in Nepal, you know, we, we came and certainly Bob
Garley, who I work, work alongside, his vision was
simple. One church 1 trained leader in
every village that, that was, that was, that was the vision.
The, the challenge was that there were 20,000 villages, you

(24:42):
know, but the, the reality is that, you know, the, the, the,
the vision was really simple as God revealed it to us.
And so I recognize those, those,those symptoms as you go, as you
go into that, into going to the field Now Jomo, and I wanted to
ask Jomo, great to have Jomo with us.
It's great to have national leaders from all over.
What a privilege it is to have so many of these guys in, in one

(25:04):
house, you know, over these, over these days.
And it's been great to get to know Jomo over the last year or
two. And Jomo, your, your experience
is a little bit different because you've been, you are the
leader of a movement that's beenin existence for 7070 years, 75
years. So I wanted to ask you because,
you know, you know, when it comes to starting and as you

(25:26):
look to the future, what, what are your hopes, you know, within
your own movement when it comes to church planting, what, what
do you want to see? And how, how do you even begin
to initiate church planting in amovement where maybe church
planting has maybe not been there for a long time?
You know, how do you begin to reinvigorate that and begin to

(25:46):
stir up those kind of, you know,fires of church planting again?
And I just wanted to get your concept of coming into that.
You're the, the new general Superintendent of the Elim
Churches in Guyana. What, what, what do you think
your priorities are with regardsto when it comes to church
planting and how you're going tohow's that going to unfold?
Thank you, Steve. Good often everyone happy to be

(26:07):
here and Guyana and a lovely team and Guyana is right here to
support we. We are so blessed to be here
because we have been a part of church for years and I think
most pastors have really enjoy the establishment of local
buildings and really trying to make their churches beautiful.

(26:28):
But I think after the vision wasshared to us, yourself and
others, and earlier Pastor Mark,along with his wife of course,
and then we had people like Pastor Sammy.
There was people who've been around for a while have been
kind of pushing, pushing the idea.
But Elin Guyana has been very dormant as relates to going out

(26:51):
in the evangelistic world. We've been very limited as
relates to what's next. So we'll just make things very
nice. So we have some major challenges
in making that change. One is logistically Guyana is
concentrated in primarily Region4.

(27:11):
We have 10 administrative regions and but the population
is heavy. We have over 400 something
people in Georgetown and we don't even have a million people
in the entire country. But Elim is spread just across
about five of those regions 2345and six, the others are absent.

(27:32):
So of a major challenge first ishow do we get to the other
regions that have not been reached as yet.
Some of those regions are not populated, some are under
populated. We've we've had if you like, but

(27:52):
the difficulty has to do with not just getting there, but
having people that want to go there and why should they go.
So the mind change is where our challenges really lie.
So how do you do that? How do you change the mindset of
a movement that's no longer moving?

(28:12):
It has begun true teaching is the first one We simply rely on
the word that we shared your quotation.
Second Timothy 22 but the concept of individuals, not
necessarily pastors, not necessarily people who are
trained in all the theological knowledge, people with passion

(28:35):
and with the desire to serve Christ and presently what we are
seeing as more persons recognizethat they can be used.
I'm not necessarily have to go through all the systems.
That is one way we see change isbeginning to happen.
Teaching is key in an established organization which

(28:56):
happens to have people to changeto see for the first time that
which was already in Scriptures is now being brought to light.
This is what we should be doing and that has been the second
thing I believe is happening. But thirdly, it has to do with
the great sense that people feellike what's next, what's

(29:18):
happening with us right now. There's a sense of awakening.
Even through worship, even through simple things like Bible
study, there's an awakening. And that group, not much, not
many, that group is beginning toshake in some specific areas.
And that's that's where we have to go with Steve.
So something is beginning to stir, but it's really difficult

(29:41):
to change something that's always been the way it's always
been. And so that's that that needs
maybe an encounter with God. It means a fresh revelation.
And what are your hopes for the future when you look at Elam
Guyana? Well, I think all over the last
years we have had a vision whichwas planting 100 church or

(30:02):
multiplying church over the next10 years.
And we recognize that in a set is not necessarily a vision, but
it's more of a goal, a goal thatinvolves actions and movements.
And so while that is the church planting movement in Guyana, my
personal vision and desire to see what's to come next is that

(30:26):
every local pastor begin to havean outward look in their local
churches. More than just evangelism of
sharing a track. But perhaps how can we multiply
ourselves in another location, not necessarily in the town, in
the city where everybody is. It's really nice there, but to

(30:47):
go into far-flung regions, whichis where the challenges really
lie. That is my personal vision.
And I'm hoping to sell that to others around me that that's
where we we need you to go. We are selling it, we're sewing
it, and we're hoping people willcatch that vision.
OK, I'm going to ask Mark another question.
So Mark, I'm, I'm, you know, you, you talk a lot about
culture. I've known you for many, many

(31:07):
years. So what part does culture play
in church planting movements, you know, positively and also
negatively, you know, speak intothat a little bit with regards
to, you know, the how movements move.
You know what? What part does culture play in
that? Can tell a story.
There was a there's a couple he got married and the husband woke

(31:31):
up on the the day after the the wedding and felt for his wife
and she wasn't in the bed. He went downstairs and he could
smell this. It must have been a Caribbean
because it's a lovely smell of fried fish in the place or it
might have been named Cambodia. I don't know.
And it was it was just like, oh,he's the best smell he he he'd
ever experienced. So he goes down.

(31:53):
His wife has made him this fish breakfast and he noticed that
all the trimmings were there, but he noticed that the the fish
was cut in half. So he asked his wife.
He said that's really sweet. There's, you know, half of you
half of me. She said, no, no, no, no, that's
not the reason why she said whenI cut it in half, it actually
tastes better. He said, oh, was he tasted it.
It was the best taste ever. So he said, where did you learn

(32:14):
that from? So she, she says, well, I
learned it from my mother. So she said, well, how does she,
where did she learn that from? She said, well, when we go to
see her next week, we'll go and ask her.
They go to the following week. And lo and behold, the mother is
making exactly the same dish. And he looks at the looks at the
dish and there's, there's a fish, it's cut in half.
And so she, she, he tastes it and it tastes exactly like his

(32:37):
wife, the way she, she cooked it.
And so he asked his mother-in-law now, so how, why
does it taste like this? So I know it's that you cut it
in half. Why does it taste better?
She's, I don't know, but my mother taught me how to do that.
So she, when you go and see her next time, go and ask her.
A couple of weeks pass and this couple now going to see the
grandmother and lo and behold, she's making exactly the same

(32:57):
dish and he tastes the dish and he tastes exactly the same as
all the, the, the previous 2. So he asked the grandmother, He
said, what is it that you all the, all the ingredients are
there and you cut the fish in half.
It tastes really, really good. What's the secret behind cutting
it in half? She said, she said it's got
nothing to do with the taste. She says that when we got
married, we didn't have a fryingpan big enough in order to hold

(33:18):
the, the fish, so we had to cut it in half.
I say all that to say that, you know, we follow things and we
all of us in this room have a culture, by the way, whether
it's a church at home, wherever we find ourselves, a workplace,
but we follow things that have been handed down without
sometimes actually asking a question why we do stuff.
And so culture, particularly church culture, plays a big part

(33:43):
in just in church life, but alsoin in in church planting.
A man called Peter Drucker said that culture each strategy for
breakfast and one of the things that all of us would have would
have maybe you guys in this roomwould have experienced that.
You know, sometimes we could have the best church planting

(34:03):
strategy out there. We could even, you know, create
our own or God gives us it and we we put it into place.
But if our culture within the church is not a disciple making
culture, then it's not going to have much legs in order that
maybe you'd have a, you'd have asome success.
But eventually, if your culture is a non disciple making one,

(34:24):
that culture is going to eat anystrategy for breakfast.
And so I've, I've noticed that in, in some of the cultures that
I've, that I've worked in, especially ones that are 75
years old, that sometimes just like the fish story that we do
stuff that's been handed down. And you know, I'm not knocking
anything that, that they do, youknow, where people are coming to

(34:45):
Christ and they're getting taught etcetera, etcetera.
Great stuff, but God is a multiply isn't a multiplying
God. One of the first things he says
or the first thing he says to Adam, Eve and Eve is go forth
and multiply and the same thing comes to to to his church.
He wants us to multiply, not to,you know, all due respect to
buildings and etcetera. But you know, I've done that

(35:06):
route of, you know, just buy a piece of land, build a building
and that's fill it with people. That's great, but God's design,
God's purpose for his church is for us to be a multiplying
church. So sometimes in that culture
where we've, we've learnt, I hadto unlearn Steve.
I think Steve's opening sentencewas that the attractional style

(35:27):
church, I came from an attractional style church and it
wasn't until I was on a mission field where God was speaking to
myself, my wife, and my family about raising up disciple
makers, not filling a building with disciples, but raising up
disciple makers. And so one of our goals is this
is an organization that work within the Philippines is that

(35:49):
our goal is not to make disciplemakers.
These guys will be shocked with that.
But our goal, I always pause on purpose because my goal, our
goal is, is to create or developa culture of disciple making.
Because we found that when you develop a culture of disciple

(36:10):
making, you automatically get disciple makers and they go out
into the world and they do the, the Matthew 2818 thing.
So there's a, there's a, there'sa, a negative size in that it
can be if we, if we don't recognise what God has designed
his church to do to be multiplying, that we could be in

(36:31):
a building. Sorry to say this, we're
troublemakers. He said that to be navel gazing,
OK. And to create, you know,
sometimes inadvertently, we, we build people who are growing,
but they grow within the four walls of a building.
And but they are God has designed us to go out and tell
everybody about the most amazingnews ever.

(36:52):
You know, if I had to, sorry, I'm preaching now, but I've got
to say this. But listen, if if I had the, the
cure to every single cancer and I had it in a tablet form and I
kept that, that formula to myself, what kind of a man would
that make me? But I have even better news in
that I have the news that leads that people that changed

(37:14):
people's destination to eternal life.
And so if we keep that containedwithin the four walls of a
building, which we call church, which is theologically
incorrect, then, you know, woe is me, but God has designed us
to to do that. So I encourage you guys, if you
are, you know, church leaders oryou know, you're you, you feel
God calling you to to go out onto the mission field.

(37:36):
He's designing you to go out to be a troublemaker.
He's designing you and calling you to go out to disrupt people.
And hopefully you won't end up in prison for it.
All right. But you know, you're not going
to do that. You're going to be very you're
going to be very limited if you do that within the confines of
the four walls of a building. But if you go out and you with

(37:56):
it with the intention of creating a culture or developing
a culture of that generates disciple makers, then you know
God's going to be with you. Sorry, no, no, don't to to to go
on the. Don't apologize.
I'm passionate about that still,sorry.
I know you are. I know you are.
Culture, culture. You've all got one.
You've all got one. This is the way you do things,

(38:18):
and there's a reason why you do it.
But is there a difference between church culture and
Kingdom culture? Are they the two same things?
Well, maybe they're into lock, but the reality is sometimes
they can be two different thingsbecause you can tell the fruit
of a, a Kingdom culture because it multiplies.
And church culture is a good place.
It's not a bad place. But does it do what the
scriptures tell us to do? And those are the kind of things

(38:39):
that I came face to face with with regards to when I went to
Nepal. You know, I'd, I'd spent years
in my church as a pastor making sure that on a Saturday night I
would go down to make sure that all the chairs were in order
because someone taught me that everything needed to be done
decently and in order. So I made sure that all the
chairs on a Saturday night were in order and they were all

(39:01):
straight. Those were the kind of the
things that you're moulded and shaped by culture.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it was a real kind of
shock to me when I went to Nepalthat they didn't have any chairs
because they sat on the floor. So I I always there, there's an
unlearning to realize that whatever I have in culture,
Lord, Lord, allow me to refocus and understand how you see

(39:23):
things and what I need to become.
Paul became all things to all men.
He had to learn and relearn all the time.
And that's the power and the potency of culture and changing
that culture. And Durham was talked about it
in an an established culture. If it's not producing the fruits
that you will are that we shouldbe seeing, then something needs

(39:45):
to change. And that's a that's a
challenging thing. And and if you're not seeing
fruit and I'm not seeing fruit where we are, then someone needs
to change. And it's not a it's meant to
agitate us because at the very beginning we talked about the
Bible being yes, it agitates it,it it provokes us, but it also
reveals to us the heart of God, because I have one life I only

(40:07):
get today. Amen.
And what I choose to do today matters not only to me, but the
people that I influence. I may not be able to change the
world, but I can change the world for one person, one at a
time. And, and, and if I believe what
I've always believed about myself in my childhood and what

(40:28):
people have always said over me,and that's what I carry, I'm
moulded and shaped by those things until I come into the
reality of who God tells me I am.
And then I begin to believe those things, which opens the
door of opportunity to say I cando all things.
And this is the journey for me. When I was a young person at 16
year old and I was going to walkacross Tibet, that was what I

(40:50):
wanted to do. I had no concept of the mission
field or anything like that, butI had a desire to walk across
Tibet and I did my research to walk across Tibet and I thought
I'd visit all the churches. And when I did the research I
found that there were no churches and I had a
conversation with God and I remember it was in Sheffield
Elim Church. And I remember walking down the

(41:11):
aisle as a 17 year old saying toGod that's not good enough.
And it's as if God leant down and he says, I know Steve, So
what are you going to do about that?
What are you going to do about that?
Now? Did he say audibly?
But I felt that in my heart, I didn't know it was a calling.
I didn't know it was a stirring.But somebody somewhere has to

(41:35):
pay a price. He pays a price.
And so we're following him in this journey of he left, he
became a man. He did all of that in order to
be an example to us to say, follow me, church planting is
not a good idea. We know it's a God idea.
It's it's in his heart, it's in his nature.

(41:56):
Mission is not something God does.
It's something who he is. It's in his character.
He's the sending God. And, and, and that's why it's
really interesting to hear aboutculture.
We know lots of reasons why we can't and we shouldn't, but
there's one reason why we can. And, and, and, and it's, it's
beginning to allow that to drop from our minds into our hearts

(42:18):
to believe that you have one life and we don't want to be
successful at doing the wrong things.
We want to make sure that Paul when he said this, how many
things, one thing I do, where's your focus and my focus?

(42:38):
And where is when we look through the lens of our lives
and we say, Lord, you know, whatis it that you want?
Then we're we're looking throughthe lens of God's eyes.
And what is it that God's plan. I, I, I am no longer my own.
I am his. Where do you need me to be?
What do I need to be today? In, in, in the vicinity of
wherever I am. What's your calling?

(42:59):
Paul said. One thing I do.
I know that each of these guys have given themselves to that
one thing, and I have no reason to suggest that none of you are
not doing that. But when it comes to church
planting, it's not to the selected few, it's to all.
All the call is to all. Church planting is a divine
idea. It's the only divine agency that

(43:19):
God sent. And look, we, you know, I look
at my church sometimes and it's,we're a rum lot.
I look around and I just see problems everywhere but God's
chosen imperfect people to do that wonderful task of Co
partnering with the Holy Spirit in this season.
Now coming back as time's comingand I wanted to get to ask some

(43:40):
more questions about you know what you know, you know, the the
the hallmarks of church plantingand trying to draw some of you
know this information out from the guys.
I'm going to ask Chimnap anotherquestion and you know what?
What do you find are the key factors of raising church
planters? Are these super heroes?

(44:00):
Are these guys who have got it all together?
What What are the key factors ofraising up church planters when
you yourself didn't know anything and had no strategy?
What do you tell somebody else, and how do you raise other
people up to do the work of church planting?
I, I guess it's, it's down to, to the vision again, that when
we got the vision of church planting, we need to, to, to, to

(44:25):
make that vision, not yours, butour, our vision, vision attract
people that share common vision.The more you talk about your
vision, the more it attracts more people that share the same
vision. I know that the moment God spoke

(44:46):
to me, that, that divine moment,God talk to me.
God must have talked to another person.
I just need to communicate that vision.
I remember when I had that vision of check planting and I
did not have any strategy. I did not have anybody.
I call one of the Cambodian Christian Cambodian Association.

(45:08):
I said, guys, I need a list of all Christian leaders in
Cambodia. He said why?
Now I just want a list. I want to do something great.
So he sent me a list of 25 pageswith the name and a phone number
and an e-mail address and the address of where they they live.

(45:33):
You believe it or not, that is what I did.
I send them emails. Nobody responds.
I sit in early in the morning, Isit in my office.
I fill my credit, my phone, credit card.
I call each of them, each of them, all of them, 200 something

(45:54):
pastors, leaders. I call each of them.
I made my appointment strategically.
I know where they are. That's one pastor that I made an
appointment. I did not know that he lived
this far. He lived 12 hours from where I
am. So I said, look pastor, we don't

(46:15):
know each other, but that's veryimportant things I want to talk
to you about. I just need one hour of your
time. He said why we not we not know.
I said no, you will know me and this is so important, this is so
urgent. OK, We set an appointment the
next day. I travel 12 hour there, 12 hours

(46:35):
to get to him for a coffee. One hour coffee and I share my
vision. The word for the word may not
agree. I shared my vision and he said
wow, I love that vision. Can I be part of it?

(46:57):
What I need to do to be part of that vision?
I want my whole province, all the village in my province have
a house shirt in each village. And I've been I have been pastor
for 20 years and I don't have anything that excites me that
much. So that moment really keeps me

(47:18):
going. I have been lots of phone calls,
some some of them did mean for coffee.
We will still be friends, but they're not part of the vision.
God did not talk to them. So I gather that group of people
now we have group of just more than 100 people that share the
same vision. It's our vision.

(47:38):
It's not my vision, it's our vision.
Second thing we'll see two and two.
That's what we need to do guys, that that that calling and that
vision is for you for this season.
You are the right people at the right time.
God put you for this season and you're the best.

(47:58):
But remember, that's not your vision, that's God's vision.
Your season will come to an end at some stage, whether you will
go to the Lord, whether you go somewhere else, whether God
calls you to do something else completely different.
And you need to stay open to that.

(48:21):
So one of the things I've learned during the years is that
I don't own anything. Actually, my wife owns me.
Sometimes I don't own anything. This chapending movement is not
belong to me at all. The culture that I live in.
I need to change here to God's Kingdom, mindset, culture and be

(48:44):
ready. Your season will come to an end
and God will use you to do something else that you're the
best for that in that season. Wow.
And you have seen ordinary people plant churches, haven't
you? Oh yes, I have seen people that
come to faith like just a week starting to spread good news

(49:07):
like the girl of Samaritans woman.
I have seen that stories came tolife.
I remember I travelled 6 hours with with one of the local
pastor to one of the new village.
There's no chairs. We sit on a hammock and talk
something about God and the seller.
The seller came and sell us something and he heard that

(49:27):
we're talking about Jesus and that pastor evangelized to her
and with about 1520 minutes he said, oh, Jesus sounds very,
very interesting. Can you tell me more?
So they spent another half hour and as he prayed at the sinner's
prayer became Christians and he said, wait, do wait here.

(49:48):
My mom and my father at home just 10 minutes away.
They, they will go to hell. So wait here pastor, I will
bring my whole family here and let us, he brought a whole
family and we all did a little session of evangelistic
activities and again having the whole family are becoming Christ
and she is now the person of peace in that village.

(50:12):
So we begin to see, you know, and it's we're not, we're not
even opening the lid of really church planting at all.
That's not what we were trying to do.
But it's trying to envision and understand that, you know, you
know, those who are open to thatcall and those who are just
saying, Lord, if you want to available, you know, there's an
element of God putting somethinginto your heart and into your
mind and into your soul that youjust can't help yourself and

(50:34):
allowing that to mould you and shape you over the coming
season. And even if today sparks, even
if today just gives and agitatesyou, even if today provokes you
to think this is something that's really important.
And it's not that you might be the church planter, but you will
see. You'll see the heart of God
because the church is the only transforming agency that will be

(50:55):
in a community. In fact, I actually believe that
the world is transformation, butit doesn't do transfiguration.
It doesn't do that. It doesn't bring the glory of
God. Any, any agency in the world can
transform a village with regardsto water and things like that,
but only the church can bring transfiguration, the glory of
God, you know, by by being the church, because we, we've been

(51:18):
sent, we've been called and we've been agitated and some
people, you know, we've got intoour into a root.
And so we've got a culture and that culture is difficult to
change. And others have started with it
and, and, and they've just run with the vision and seeing great
fruit. In Nepal, there wasn't a culture
that was like a church that we were trying to set up.

(51:39):
It was just infancy. So you can mold and shape it.
And it's very different to trying to change a culture
that's always been there. So we come from these in
different perspectives. But you yourself, what culture
do you carry? What needs to change?
And you know, what's God saying to you?
And this is this is a a little prompt just to agitate us, but

(52:00):
also to encourage us and to inspire us.
Yes, we can hear stories. But you, you could be the story
in a place where there is no church.
You already are. Even if you're a health worker,
if you're in education, you are that story.
We are that story. We are salt and light.
Now as we come to. And I got one more question here
to ask German. What are the greatest challenges

(52:23):
to equipping, you know, you know, church planting in Guyana?
What do you see as the greatest challenge going forward and how
are you going to overcome that challenge, do you think?
So I think we have several challenges and the main has to
do with relating to somethings Imentioned because we, most of

(52:43):
our pastors are, if you like over 50 / 60.
I'm not saying they're old, but they're perhaps moving on.
And so we have the younger pastors who have learned from
those pastors. And so they are doing the exact
same thing, culture. And so our challenge at this

(53:04):
point is trying to get the younger pastors to steer away,
not in everything from the olderpastors, but to start something
new while being connected to their spiritual fathers.
You see. And that's why I mentioned
before training, teaching. So that's one.

(53:25):
Another area that we consider tobe very important at this time
is to celebrate the smaller churches that we have just seen.
For example, we have got 2 specific person.
We have Dolly. You're familiar with Dolly?
Not a pastor, member of a local church, started a children's
work, just finished baptizing some people.

(53:47):
Yeah. You saw that.
Yeah, we have her. But his excite is growing.
And you have ordained ministers who haven't.
They have been preaching for a long time, put it, put it that
way. Then.
Then we then we have, you know, Michael Sami and the travels
that he's doing, which is alwaysprofound.

(54:08):
But we also have younger people who have not been in the church
planting movement. But who's now taking the manual
and is beginning to witness and they've called and says, hey,
I've got this stuff going. I've got some children's work.
Could I, could I start this now?Originally they would need to be
connected to a church to get work.

(54:29):
And I said, no, just go ahead. And right now we're having those
children. They're doing the reading
classes and, and the young woman, she's teaching them the
Bible in the reading classes. You see.
So one of the things is to do within our general conferences
is to celebrate these little changes.
If you celebrate it, perhaps this ripple effect that people

(54:50):
who once feel stuck within theirlocal churches can start to
movement right where they are. I think that that's a good thing
to do. May make one last point.
I think, I think there is a buzz.
There is a buzz that is happening in local Elim worship
is great. I think teaching is getting

(55:12):
better, but there's a sense in which people are understanding
that what was before was OK. It's OK.
We're not going to criticize allour leaders.
It's OK. But the buzz is that now we have
new leadership, a bit younger leadership.

(55:33):
Both myself and the vice chair, we're under 50.
We're getting we're near 50. We're a little older, but we are
not there as yet. But there's a sense in which,
OK, what's happening next? What's the next move?
What's the next move to happen? And that to me is inspiring by
itself to know that people are interested in doing something
for God. And that's where the prayer

(55:55):
really lies because at the moment we have prayer movements.
It is happening both of the church planting under our
spiritual father, which is Pastor Bristol, you know, but
then within the local environment of the local
churches, we're having prayer that is moving and there's an
excitement and for me that is the is the crown work lead for

(56:18):
something to be built on the next level could happen without
prayer. It can happen.
And to me for Edom Guyana to move from the kind of movement
that it's had in the kind of a concrete structure jungle to a
more non building track moving, developing of just people

(56:38):
meeting together. I think it's going to happen and
it's going to happen perhaps in the next couple of years.
Wow. There's lots to pray for for
Pastor Jomo as he seeks to lead the Guyana movement into a new
season. It's, it's a huge thing.
We've come to almost an end. But I, I, I, I just want to take
you to this final quote by Oswald Smith.

(57:02):
You'll see it for yourself there.
We talk of the second coming. Half the world has never heard
of the first. That stirs my heart.
Whatever I think is important. If if I truly understood the
gospel that not only challenges that my heart, it, it changes

(57:23):
it. It's a game changer for me.
And it comes back to when Paul understood this and he said,
this is the one thing I do. And there's a reason I'm not,
I'm, I'm not doing it because ofguilt.
I'm doing it because I've understood that the love of God
compels me. I'm caught and I want to be

(57:44):
caught. I want, I want him.
And, and so he, he brings all ofhis attention.
We're not all the apostle Paul. And I appreciate that.
But the same Spirit that was in the apostle Paul and the same
Spirit that raised Christ from the dead is the same Spirit that
resides here now. And he's a missional spirit.

(58:04):
He goes and, and, and he calls us and he draws us and he
whispers to us. I conclude with this wonderful
account of Isaiah in Isaiah 6. And you'll know exactly where
that is, because if you're seasoned Christians, you'll
know. And it's that calling.
And here's the thing, when Isaiah's in that position and,

(58:27):
and God speaks to him almost in an auditorium this size, Can you
imagine? And, and, and, and, and there he
is stood before God and, and, and God says, who will go for
me? Now he says, who will go for me?
But Can you imagine that there'sonly one person in the room?

(58:48):
There's only Isaiah stood there and God's going, who?
Isaiah will go for me. You can imagine Isaiah going,
oh, it's me. It comes to the conclusion that
it's him. And I love that kind of analogy

(59:13):
that God is so wonderfully personal that he reveals his
heart to his Son and he says, Son, I want you to be involved
with me in my plan for the world.
I want you to play your part. Now, I'm not saying that you
should all certainly be going tothe other side of the world and

(59:34):
church planting, but we are provoked and agitated by the
Scripture. We we are compelled by the love
of God, you know, to arise and think to ourselves, Lord, I will
at least ask the questions. Most Christians want to know the
will of God in order to considerit, and then they'll pray about

(59:55):
it. We don't ask to know the will of
God in order to consider it. God is not a Democrat, he's an
autocrat. This is the way.
Walk in it. It's not.
Have a pray, have a think if youfeel up to it.

(01:00:20):
This is his plan. This is his will.
Now you might say, well, that's a little bit.
That's a little bit. Well, we're at war.
We're at war. And if I go into the war with my
hands in my pocket, then I'm notready.
But if my hands are saying here I am, whatever it is, whatever

(01:00:43):
you do, life, God's wonderful calling is on you.
And it's not guilt, it's not condemnation.
The love of God compels us. He couldn't help himself.
What is the one thing like Paul that he was doing?
What is the one thing that you are going to give your life to?

(01:01:04):
What does that look like? Is this the beauty of the
adventure that we are all in right now?
Lord, here I am. Where do I if Christian life is
dull and boring to us, you're in, You're doing something
wrong. Because for me it's ferociously
exciting, because it scares me to death every day.
What is it, Lord, you want me toinvolve myself with today?

(01:01:27):
A delivery man came to my house just the other night.
I've finished there. He opened the door, ordered a
Chinese, just one of those things.
Didn't want to cook. The guy came and he said I
opened the door. Never seen him before in my
life. I open the door and he says,

(01:01:48):
you're the pastor from that church, aren't you?
Do you know what? I didn't feel like talking.
I wanted to have me Chinese justlike, leave me alone.
I've just been. Come on, Lord, come on.
And then I suddenly went. Then suddenly that that
compelling. I went.

(01:02:10):
Yeah, I am. We get talking.
It's Saturday night, Sunday morning, just this Sunday.
He sat in the church. Why is he sat in the church?
It's because my hands were not in my pocket.
He says, says, Lord, here I am. And we are not on mission.

(01:02:31):
We, we, we don't do mission. We're on it right now.
We are mission. And for some, some of you need
to go a little further. And this is where maybe for
some, God is calling his, confirming his calling upon your
life to leave. It's Time Lord, I'm waiting for
a word. Today is the day, now is the

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time. It's not a guilt thing.
You know it, you've sensed it for a while and it's important.
And there's no music playing. There's not one of it.
It's just here I am Isaiah, who who, who go.
I ain't got a lot to offer, Lord.
But if you want, Yeah, I know I'll journey with you.

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Ordinary man, ordinary man, ordinary man, very ordinary man.
And yet isn't it amazing that what God can do just with
availability and say Lord, OK, your terms, not mine.
I'm not going to ask to considerwhen you tell me I'm going to be

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willing to go. Isn't that exciting?
Let's all stand as we conclude. Thank you.
You've listened so well. Thank you to my I give them a
round of applause. It's been wonderful for them to
contribute. Thank you guys.
But we're going to pray and we're going to commit what what

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we've talked about to the Lord. And maybe God is whispering to
you and I'm going to remain at the front here with these guys.
And maybe God's whispered to youand you need to take that a
little bit further. Each, each, each, each 4/4 of us
will be available at the front to pray with you and just stand
with you. We're not going to commit you to
anything, but we just want to journey with you and just pray
that this could be the beginningof a new season in your life.

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So all we can do is stand beforeyou, Lord, and say, here am I.
Would you whisper, Thank you Lord for what you're doing in in
Guyana. Pray for Jomo giving great

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wisdom as he leads that great movement.
Thank you for Chimnap, who's nowseen many churches planted even
though he didn't know what to doand how to do it.
Thank you for the ripples and influence that Marcus had in
many nations. To see many people saved, it's
truly awesome, all very ordinarypeople, but have that sense of I

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just couldn't help it because the call of God was there and
for each one of us Lord, wherever we are and however we
we've arrived in this place. Lord, today I pray that we would
just lean in and just listen to what you are whispering to our
hearts and souls with regards toyour heart for the world.

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Half the world hasn't heard of the first coming.
Lord, move us as you were moved,as you wept over Jerusalem.
Give us your heart. Let us see through your eyes.
Let our minds perceive what YourSpirit is revealing to us right

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now. And then give us our bodies to
say. Yet will I follow him wherever
he may lead. Oh Lord, what a great adventure.
Lord we commit Lord this time now and the rest of this day and
this conference to you be honoured and glorified in all
things we ask and pray in Jesus name, Amen.

(01:06:10):
Amen. Thank you for listening so well.
And if you would like to come for prayer at the at the end,
please do come now and we would love to stand with you and pray.
So God bless you and enjoy the rest of your evening and see you
in the evening sessions. Bye bye.