May 16, 2025 • 53 mins
We are 60+ years old. We have more wisdom than ever before. We’ve survived some awful moments. And we’re still standing - ready for the next 30 years. How we embrace this next stage of life is crucial - what does it mean to serve God well? What does a vocation look like at this stage? What can begin? What should stop? Come and explore together.
Neil enjoys wearing a number of different hats: pastor, teacher, writer, mentor, consultant, trainer. More importantly, husband, father, grandfather and friend. An Elim pastor since 1985, he can see life’s changes beckoning.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
OK, well, how wonderful to see you.
I really didn't expect so many people coming for this
liturgical dance seminar and andfor all of you to have your own
leotards are quite remarkable. I genuinely thought you'd all be
(00:21):
in Betty's by now. But tomorrow, Tomorrow.
How wonderful. Wonderful.
It's you. We've just got one or two folks
coming, I think got a minute to go.
So just for the sake of it, it'skind of, I can see people as
they're coming up through up thestairs and next door is a young
Leaders seminar. And I can see people going, no,
(00:42):
it's not for me, not now, pardon.
OK. And you can also see the young
leaders because they're all late, whereas we were on time.
We're early. OK, well, as I say, fantastic to
(01:06):
see you. My name is Neil, Neil Hudson,
and my task for this hour is to do a little bit of input with
you, to give you time to reflect.
And I've been asked to leave enough time that you might have
questions and answers. So we're going to kind of try
and do a lot in just an hour. I've been a kneeling pastor for
(01:27):
40 years. This is my 40th conference.
I know we are now at the age where we go.
Well done for still being alive.Four years ago I came and I've
come ever since. I during the time of being an
alien pastor for four years I taught full time.
(01:50):
I've been a full time pastor forthe first ten years.
I was a full time pastor only ofI've only ever been involved in
two churches. One was in Guernsey.
OK, so some of you have heard ofGuernsey at least.
And the story I tell about Guernsey, particularly when we
(02:12):
were there in the 1980s, was that you, if you drove to the
town, the town 30 miles an hour,which was the speed limit on the
whole of the island, you didn't want to carry your car keys
around with you because they were bulky in your pocket.
So you'd park the car on the pier and you'd put the car keys
(02:35):
in the footwell, go and do your shopping, meet the whole of the
island, and then you'd come back.
And of course, when you got back, your car was still there.
Because if they stole it, where would they go?
On an island, 9 by three. You just walk and get it back
again. And from there I moved to
(02:58):
Salford in Manchester, which wasvery similar.
This is an this is not a preacher's story.
This is true. On the first week I was there I
was a very young pastor and we had a deacons meeting on the
Friday night and one of the deacon's cars was stolen outside
(03:23):
the church that had barbed wire all round it with steel doors
and anti anti shatterglass. We were looking for the kind of
seeker, sensitive, friendly, come and join us church and one
of the deacon's cars got nicked and we gathered the deacons
after the police had been called.
And we prayed that the young lads, and with a group of people
(03:45):
who will appreciate this, would click the cassette recorder in
the car and they would listen toGraham Kendrick singing Make
Way, Make Way. If I tell this story, we thought
like people in their 30s. I've got so much explanation to
do. It's nice to be among kindred
(04:05):
spirits and that somehow it would lead to saving faith.
And over the years in Salford, in those early years
particularly, I prayed that so many times that I had to do
until we started pray a more Psalm like prayer, biblical
prayer, which essentially said, oh God, get em.
(04:27):
And I'm not sure how God has answered any of those prayers,
but that's been my church for 37years.
But during that time I was teaching at the Bible college
and I've worked for other organisations.
But all of that time I've been akneeling minister and I've been
a pastor. But much more importantly, I'm a
(04:51):
son, I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm a grandfather, I'm a
friend and I'm juggling. I used to be the one who they
would wheel out from time to time to do cutting edge culture
stuff. Now I get to talk about being
(05:11):
old. So thank you for joining me.
It's 3:00. We're probably at that stage of
an afternoon where if you could just say to the person next to
you, if my head goes on your shoulder and I begin to drool,
(05:39):
can you just nudge me gently? I came across this.
One way to find out if you're old is this fall over?
If they laugh, you're still young.
If they run to help, you're old.I think you should try that this
(06:00):
week. We're over 60.
My generation, my age group, we thought we would retire at 65
and then they changed the rules.I laugh at my children, but my
(06:28):
granddad died at 64 and my grandma died at 63.
Both sides of the family. Neither experienced retirement.
Both were old before their time.Both were much older than I am
now, though in chronological age.
(06:49):
They were only two years older than me.
They were much older than I am now.
We've got better medical care, better food, better awareness of
health. The idea of either my grandma or
my granddad going to the gym just beggars belief really.
(07:14):
And so for them, they never had the opportunity to enjoy the
final third of life. But we will, and we will as
followers of Jesus. My take on discipleship is this.
(07:38):
In some churches. I've worked with lots of
churches because of the jobs I've done.
Can someone just answer the phone and say I'm busy?
Just tell them you're busy. Or if it's really interesting,
tell us what they're saying. In some churches, when we think
of discipleship, we think of it as a sort of the, the thing we
(08:01):
do post Alpha. So I've met church leaders and
worked with church leaders and said, how do you disciple people
in your church? And they go, oh, we've got a, a
course, six week course. And of course we know that
that's not really enough A&B. It's not actually how you grow
(08:24):
as a disciple. So my take on what a disciple is
is this, and it's my own definition and it has
weaknesses, but it's my own. A disciple is someone learning
the way of Jesus at this time, in this context, OK.
(08:45):
A disciple is someone learning the way of Jesus.
How do I walk obedient to Jesus in at this time in my context?
We never outgrow that moment of needing to learn the way of
Jesus. Five years ago my children came
(09:06):
and said, we have news for you. You will have more to do in the
day than you ever imagined. You will lose the freedom that
you thought you now had because we had left home many years ago.
You will be the 4th emergency service.
(09:29):
Yep. They told us they were having
grandchildren and it has been brilliant.
But I remember praying because I'm a disciple of Jesus, and I
wanted to ask Jesus, will you help me walk a pathway that I've
(09:50):
never walked before? I've never been in this context
before when I might have influence, but I don't have
authority. When my kids were little, I
thought I had authority. Of course, it was a joke, but
but I have no authority over my grandchildren, but I do have
influence. Jesus, will you help me as a
(10:12):
disciple of yours, learn your way in this context, At this
time, for some of you, inevitably you will have had to
face significant health issues, either for yourself or for those
you love. What's the way of Jesus in this
(10:35):
context? Never been diagnosed with cancer
before? I'm walking a pathway I don't
recognise and that is frightening.
Or I'm living with someone who I'm fearing might have the
beginnings of Alzheimer's. Or I'm in my case, I'm caring
for my dad who has got Alzheimer's.
(10:56):
Lord, I don't know how to do this.
Will you help me walk this way as a disciple of yours?
I think what I'm wanting to say,and I know you know this, we
never start being disciples who are learning the way of Jesus in
our context at this moment. And I suppose it's one of the
(11:18):
things I'd want you to, you know, if if you're just about to
fall asleep, at least you've heard the good bit.
I'd want you to hear that because actually that's that's
the thing about what it means tofollow Jesus in this context, at
this stage of life. What does it mean for me to
follow? And I think if we can imagine
ourselves as disciples like that, then actually one of the
(11:39):
things that happens is we go, OK, Lord, what are you doing?
The two questions we will explore together this afternoon
are these. What's my part to play now and
who am I becoming at this stage of life?
(12:03):
What's my part to play and who am I becoming?
Let me, I'll come back to that in a moment just to encourage
you. Life expectancy, this is
national figures, life expectancy at the age of 65.
If you were 65 between 2021 and 2023, your life expectancy, the,
(12:28):
the average life expectancy is if you're a male, 18 1/2 years
and if you're a female, 21 years.
If any of you are over that age right now, then just well done.
In 2020 to 2022, at the age of 65, the average healthy male
(12:48):
life expectancy was 75 and the female healthy life expectancy
was 76. So in other words, what the
difference is, is how long you live and actually how long you
might be deemed to be healthy. And I'm guessing because you all
(13:10):
made it to Harrogate, you're in the first category apart from
you live up the road. I know that.
But actually the question is, OKLord, so how do I use my time
really well and what's my part to play?
Well, I still got my health. Now, we all know that we're in
(13:34):
the phase of life that someone has called Sniper's Alley.
You know, it's kind of like you've just got to keep dodging.
But, and, and there's no guarantees here, Two things will
happen. One is we will have, please God,
many years of healthy, relatively healthy life.
(13:56):
And then there will come a time where we become dependent on
others. What's our part to play?
And who are we becoming in John chapter 21?
John's gospel ends with a numberof things, but one of the things
(14:17):
was Jesus speaking with Peter. And it's a passage you'll be
very aware of, but it's Jesus speaking to Peter.
Peter has gone through the Jesusasking him, do you love me?
And three times Jesus, Peter replies, I love you, you know I
love you. And three times Jesus
recommissions a man who'd failed.
(14:37):
But then Jesus looks further down the line and says to Peter,
I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and
went where you wanted. But when you are old, you will
stretch out your hands and someone else will dress you and
lead you where you do not want to go.
And Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter
(15:00):
would glorify God. And then he said, follow me.
I don't know how familiar you are with those very short
verses, but I find them poignant.
Just look at them again if you can, Peter, relatively young
(15:26):
man, of course, Jesus was 33. He gathered around him young
men, but Jesus looking down the line and going, Peter, Peter,
when you were younger you did what you wanted.
But as you get older, they will dress you, they'll stretch out
(15:51):
your hands, someone else will dress you and lead you where you
don't want to go. And Jesus said this to indicate
the kind of death by which Peterwould glorify God.
So Peter, what's your major way of glorifying God?
(16:13):
Yes, we know, upon this rock I'll build my church.
Yes, Peter, we know all you did in the book of Acts.
Yes, Peter, we know the people you raised from the dead and the
miracles you did. Yes, Peter, we know the way you
broke new territory. But actually you will glorify
God when you are at your weakest.
(16:36):
Now follow me. And I don't really.
I find it difficult on a personal level to want to
embrace the helplessness. But wouldn't it be great to
think that actually, when we eventually get there in our
helplessness, we will be most able to glorify God?
(16:59):
When we least feel like we're doing so?
When we least feel that we're agents.
When we're least feel that we'reenergetic.
When we least feel we're able tomake a difference.
When we least feel we are exactly where God wants to us to
be. When we feel uncomfortable.
(17:20):
When we are in the place we do not want to go, you'll glorify
God. So let me ask you the question,
(17:42):
where do you spend most of your time and what do you spend most
of your time doing? And I've got some categories
there. You might have others.
I wonder if I can, if you're able, can I ask you to stand and
to turn around and this is just a way of making working out with
it. Anybody's actually fallen asleep
(18:03):
yet? If you can stand just for a
moment and talk to someone and listen to someone.
Where do you spend most of your time in a week, an average week,
normal week? Where are you and what you're
doing in those places? And don't go through them bit by
bit, but where do you spend mostof your time?
Choose one of them. What do you spend your time
(18:25):
doing there? OK, OK, I'm going to ask you to
take your seats. OK, If you can just well,
(18:54):
it looked like most of you foundsomething to talk about, which
is great. How many of you said that you
spend most of your time on on inin work context?
That's great. How many of you spent said
church context most of your timein church?
Yeah, OK, that's all right. Family.
(19:15):
Yeah, there's quite a number of so work and and and church
leisure in leisure groups. Yeah, OK, pretty much similar.
And then it was sort of like other groups.
It was like sort of like voluntary groups or voluntary
organisations that sort of thing.
Great. OK.
So quite a number of you still working quite a many of you
still involved in church life. What I want to do is offer you
(19:41):
some of my thoughts about my situation.
So this is like extended therapy.
So thank you for coming. I've got a couch.
I'm going to lie down for a while.
And if you can just go MMM, at the appropriate time, that would
be very helpful. So my context is this, this is
(20:02):
of no significance to any of youexcept for me.
My context is that I'm, I'm working.
I'm a working pastor. But I've got a horizon in which
I won't be working in the role I'm in for many more years.
I, I, there's a, there's an end date and it's sooner rather than
(20:23):
later. OK, so in offering you these
things, I'm not speaking as any expert except a fellow
traveller. And I've reflected on some of
the things that I've been askingmyself at this stage of the
journey, the important thing foryou to really hear.
(20:45):
And may I, I'm going to say it really explicitly.
So none of you leave the room thinking I've said something I
haven't said. There are many years ahead for
me and you yet. There's much for us to do.
But actually what we need to do is find our appropriate place.
That's the key. So that's the, I hope that's
(21:08):
helpful for you to hear. Otherwise it's like, oh, right,
OK, we're done. We're not.
But we do enter into the most interesting phase of our lives.
It's interesting, isn't it? Because this phase of our life,
we're in the post 60 phase. And if you're under 60, what are
(21:30):
you doing here? If was the title not clear
enough? You have.
You and I have so much experience.
We have lived through so much. We've got scars, but boy have we
got stories. We've lived through humiliations
(21:55):
that are now brilliant dinner party stories.
We've lived through tragedy and disappointment, and to quote the
theologian Elton John, we are still standing, aren't we?
(22:19):
So we come with experience. Lots of us have been Christians
for decades now, and we know what faith looks like on the
good days. We also know what faith looks
like when God feels distant and we no longer are adolescents who
are desperately sort of trying to hype up our faith.
(22:41):
We're kind of securing it. We've gone through the valley of
doubt that may welcome again, but we've lived through valley
of doubt. We don't, we don't need to sort
of build a house there, but we know what doubt feels like.
We know what the absence of God feels like, and yet we still
follow Jesus. We are in the most interesting
(23:06):
phase of our life, but this is what's likely to happen to us.
We are likely to have reduced authority but increased
(23:26):
influence, reduced authority butincreased influence.
And I'm absolutely convinced actually that the way we embrace
this, the more we're at ease with this, the more help we will
be to others. I think it's when we try and
(23:52):
hang on to authority that we become unhelpful.
But when we use influence wisely, we become most helpful.
Does that resonate? Does that resonate with you?
So the first thing I've got three things to say about this.
One is I need to come to terms with, oh, just in those places
(24:18):
we need to, I need to come to terms with reduced authority.
And in my family and in my church and in my nation, I need
to recognise this, that our solutions were for yesterday's
problems. Our solutions were for
(24:42):
yesterday's problems. I have to hand over the baton to
the next generation and then notjudge when they fail or when
(25:06):
they stumble or when they make bad decisions because they are
facing their own battles. My children are approaching 40
years old. I had them as a teenager and
(25:27):
they have the children of their own and I don't know if any of
you know how it feels to need tobite your tongue.
I wonder, this is this is this is cheeky.
I wonder how many of you live with someone that you wish they
(25:47):
bit their tongue more often? Don't look at them because of
course you can see the solution.But my solution was actually for
yesterday's problem. The way I would have dealt with
it was what I did 20 years ago and I made mistakes 34 years ago
(26:09):
and I made mistakes. I remember what it was like
being a young dad trying to makemy way in my work context,
trying to juggle church, trying to be a husband and a father and
not really having a clue about any of it.
(26:30):
But being being unable to go. I don't know how to do it and I
got stuff wrong. I got stuff wrong in church.
I, I was a, I've been a pastor for four years, but I've made
dreadful mistakes in church withpeople.
(26:50):
I've said stuff that's really unhelpful.
I've made decisions that have been wrong.
I think there's times where as achurch we just miss what God was
doing. And it wasn't out of rebellion
and it wasn't out of a hard heart.
It was just I was doing my best,and the last thing I needed was
(27:11):
a generation of people who then were my critics.
What I needed were allies. I didn't need critics.
And as I look into the future, and as I'm actually dealing with
now with reduced authority but increased influence, I want to
(27:35):
be everybody's ally and no one'scritic.
Because I remember, I remember. I wonder what that would look
like in your context. In my context, one of the roles
(28:01):
I play is the family theologian.Last week the big question in
the grandchildren's generation was, did Jesus fart?
We were having this conversationon the way to school in front of
the lollipop lady. I said to Ivy, who's 5 1/2.
(28:31):
I'm not sure. But probably it wasn't enough
because on Sunday morning my sonsent me a text saying I've had
to finish your theology off because your answer was clearly
not enough. Quote UN quote.
Even Pops doesn't know if Jesus farted.
(29:00):
When Ivy's grandma Ron, her mum's side died.
Her mum and dad said go and talkto Pops about where grandma is
Ivy, who's 5 1/2 and has got a speech impediment.
So it was a very difficult conversation.
It took me ages to know what shewas asking.
(29:21):
We sat down and she said where'sgrandma now?
And you explained to A5 year oldof the best you can in ways that
she can understand what you think about life and death and
hope and mercy and grace. I have no authority over that
(29:46):
young life, but I embrace the influence.
I've been praying for that little girl from week 10 of her
conception. I have no authority, but I've
got influence. And I want to be my children's
(30:08):
allies, not their critics. And when I hand over the baton
of the church, the leadership ofthe church to the next
generation, because all that happened was 40 years ago,
someone said in Elim, will you go to Salford?
I was living in Guernsey pre Internet, didn't know where
Salford was. Looked it up in the library in
(30:31):
the Encyclopedia Britannica 1954.
They said nice things about it. Had they told the truth, Elim
said. Will you look after the church
for a while? And then my job is to say to
someone else, I've done my bit, I'm your ally, I'm not your
(30:55):
critic. And a church full of people who
are allies, not critics, are thestrength of a church.
Come to terms with reduced horizons and resist your
temptation. I was a few years ago, I was
(31:21):
doing a similar kind. It wasn't the same, wasn't the
same, but it was a similar kind of scenario with a similar
demographic. And I asked them, I can't
remember how I got onto it, but I said to them, what's your
biggest temptation? And, you know, I wasn't looking
for anything sort of, you know, sordid or too personal.
(31:43):
But one bloke put his hand up and he said now I'm retired, I
never have to spend time with people I don't like.
And I said, don't you go to church?
I thought his answer was brilliant and I asked him to say
(32:08):
more. He said.
Well, when I was at work, I was with, I was working with people
who were really difficult, he said.
Now if there are difficult people around, I just choose not
to be involved with them. I don't have to be involved with
anybody that actually gets on mynerves anymore.
I can buffer my life, he said. And that's my biggest
temptation. It's an example of an answer to
(32:35):
a question that you might want to ask yourself right now.
And I'm not going to ask you to put your hand up and tell us,
although I'd be desperately interested.
I wonder what your biggest temptation is at this stage of
life. For those of you that are
working, I wonder what your biggest temptation is.
(32:57):
I wonder for those of you that aren't working now or aren't
employed now, I wonder what yourbiggest temptation is.
I think the way that, and this is not going to be news to you,
I think the way the world offersthis stage of life to us is that
it becomes completely self centred.
(33:20):
You can't get past an ad break an ITV 3, can you, without a
river cruise? And they all look like us and
older. Yeah.
And we look and go, oh, well, I wouldn't want to go on that
cruise. We're all old.
(33:42):
Because this is, I mean, this isa cliche almost, but you know,
it should be true that it's kindof, that's what that's what
you've worked for. You've earned it.
As a previous generation would have said, you're worth it.
And I need to ask myself, what'sthe way of Jesus in my context
(34:08):
at this moment when it might notjust be that?
What's my biggest temptation now?
Am I making my life too comfortable?
Am I making my life too buffeted, buffered against
others? I wonder what you might say is
your biggest temptation. And my third question I'm asking
(34:28):
is can I come to terms with God's present call on my life,
on our lives. So when we think about and, and
this is, this is definitely applies for those of you that
are still in paid employment, but for all of us, wherever we
are, the Bible story really helps us work out what's our
call. So let me just do a quick sort
(34:49):
of basic theology where we are, we live in God's good creation
and we can see what God's intention was for the world.
Genesis. We know it's broken.
We know the fall happened because of sin.
But then there's the act of redemption, not only the
(35:09):
redemption of Jesus, but also the act of redemption that
happens in God's people, by God's people, as a demonstration
of what it means to be the full image of God in the Old
Testament, excuse me, sorry. And the church in the New
Testament before the consummation of what will be.
(35:32):
And we live in our world. So the context that you might be
facing the world that you might be involved with, what's God's
intention for that place? So you might be, I don't know,
I'm just guessing, but you mightbe part of a Tennis Club or a
(35:53):
book club club. We joined a book group, me and
my wife a few months ago. Friend of ours, new shop, she
has a book group. We joined it.
I've run book groups in the past, but what I discovered
about at least our book group isthey don't talk about the book.
(36:19):
It strikes me that not reading the book is not a
disqualification to join in the book group because within about
10 minutes they're talking aboutthemselves.
For an hour every month we listen to a group of 12-13
people, none of whom are Christians as far as we know,
(36:41):
talk about their own lives. Now, without being too sort of
like mission, you know, fired upabout it.
What's God's intention for that book group?
That I'd just be, I'm a part of I'm I'm I'm belong to now.
What's broken in that book groupand what's my part to play that
(37:08):
might demonstrate something of God's goodness in the book
group? Do you see what I'm trying to
get at? So for those of you that are
still in a, in a, in a paid employment context, you think
about your, your job situation. What is your job's purpose in
God's good creation? You know, if you're an
(37:31):
accountant, your job as an accountant is to enable a, a, a
company to thrive healthily in terms of finance.
Your job is to enable people in that company to thrive with
whatever it's doing. And what's broken?
Well, there's any number of things that might be broken
(37:53):
financially. What's your part to play?
Well, we'll do it. We'll tell the truth about the
accounts. What's the point of telling the
truth about the accounts? So you might know exactly what
situation you're in. I know my part and I know how I
can act redemptively. I wonder how that would be in
(38:14):
your street. So just thinking about it really
locally on the street you live in, what's God's good purpose
for your street? You've got a street, an Ave.
You're close. God would want people to be in
(38:35):
community together, to care for one another, to not overlook the
lonely, the poor, the lost. So that's God's desire.
What's broken? What's broken may well be that
in your area there's nowhere where people actually meet
(38:57):
'cause you all go into your house, come out of your house as
quick as you like. So one person in our church
decided what they would do in their street is in the summer
they would invite all of their neighbors to a BBQ.
They lived in a cul-de-sac. They would invite all of their
neighbors to a barbecue in the cul-de-sac on the road.
(39:20):
And neighbors met for the first time and they were redemptive in
what they were doing. What happened then over a number
of years is they started a Carolservice at Christmas in their
cul-de-sac and all the neighborscame and they read the Christmas
story and they got kids to read it and they got carols to be
(39:41):
sung and they prayed their prayers and they started to be a
redemptive activity. But they did it because the
woman decided she would offer her.
She was retired. She would offer her services as
a cleaner to all her neighbors. Now they've thought through
(40:09):
what's God's desire for my street?
What's broken here? Young professionals, they're all
over the place. They're never connected.
What can I do on my street? I wonder what that might.
Producing you. What's my part to play?
(40:37):
What can you do that no one elsecan do?
Only some people can call you. Only some people can call me
Pops. Only three people in the world
call me Pops. They have no one else they can
(40:58):
call that name to. Only one person in the world can
call me a husband. Only two people in the world can
call me Dad. A handful of people in the world
can call me their friend. A church can call me their
fellow worshipper. In my street there's those and
(41:26):
another family who are Christians.
That's it. There's only certain people can
call you by name. What's your part to play?
The river cruise is offered as an option.
But God has a role for you to play, a role for me to play that
(41:46):
only we can play. And if we don't play our part,
there's a gap in the creation, fall, redemption, consummation.
Picture. The last question I'd like, oh,
(42:08):
sorry, I'm ahead of myself. The last question I'd like to
ask is of myself. Who am I becoming?
Who am I becoming? It doesn't take much for me to
get really grumpy. A bad night's sleep, A quick
(42:31):
neck. And sometimes I become people
that I don't want to be. Who am I becoming?
Jesus? Will you fashion me so I might
become more like you. I want to glorify God in this
(42:56):
third of life. So I've got some questions for
you. What crossroads are you at?
What would you do if you weren'tafraid?
And if you die tonight in the auditorium, please don't.
(43:26):
It takes the edge off the meeting for the rest of us.
If you die tonight, what would you regret not doing?
Can you be yourself where you are and still fit in?
And if not, what do you need to do?
And if you can, are there changes needed?
What is the no, the refusal thatyou keep postponing?
(43:50):
And what have you said yes to that you no longer believe in?
What forgiveness are you withholding?
How have you contributed to the problem you need to solve, and
what's the gift you're withholding?
(44:15):
I'm going to give you 3 or 4 minutes to take one of those
questions for yourself. I don't know if any of those
questions are helpful to you, but if they are, just take one
of them. Some of you are jotting down
stuff. I don't know what you're jotting
down, whether you're just writing shopping lists or
(44:36):
whatever, but if you are jotting, then just jot your
answers to one of those questions.
I'm going to pray and I'm going to trust that at least one of
those questions might be used byGod just to nudge you a little
bit along the way. And then we'll have about 10
(44:57):
minutes for some general thoughts, questions, responses.
Lord Jesus, may your Spirit comeand rest on us.
Take the offering I've made. Take our thoughts, take our
reflections. Help it just to be another
little stepping stone on the way.
(45:20):
We're learning your way, the wayof Jesus in our context at this
moment. Amen.
Just take a moment or two. Just have a look, OK?
We won't have that one. I wonder if just for a moment
(45:52):
you can turn to someone near youand say during the whole time he
was talking, this was the thought that Kate coming back or
this was the question that I had.
All right, so if you just turn to someone and go while he was
talking, I don't just mean thoselast bit, the whole thing while
he was talking, this was, this is what either I found helpful
(46:15):
or this was the question I had. This was the thought that I was
thinking. These are the questions that I
might have had. Do you want to do that?
Just you've already discovered who the intelligent ones are, so
go back to them. It's too late to risk it with
someone else. And and I meant to say before,
by the way, that some of you, some of us hate this moment
(46:35):
because it's like we're the introverts and all you've got to
do is make sure you're with an extrovert.
You will not have to speak because they won't let you.
So just so here's the tip. And it's like a life hack for
you because you'd be in this situation before because you're
a Christian again, just say get,always be the first to say.
(46:58):
What do you think? And that means that you don't
have to speak. So there you go.
What were you thinking? What's the questions that you
might have now? Just for two minutes and then
we'll take some of those thoughts and questions.
Off you go. OK, let me bring you back again.
We've got just about 5 minutes to go.
(47:32):
OK, recognise the extroverts haven't even really cleared
their throat yet, they're just getting going.
But I wonder if if there's any thoughts or questions that you'd
(47:52):
want to offer for all of us. Any thoughts or questions?
Yeah, I'm going to bring the microphone to you so that could
you just pass the microphone across?
Thank you. This is fairly simple when
you've got a couple of minutes for this, but the the the
Scripture from John where where Jesus said to Peter this was the
(48:12):
sort of death by which he would glorify.
What would that actually look like?
What would we actually have to do to glorify Jesus as we age
and die? Any other questions?
(48:32):
I, I think I mean the, the short, the short answer for, for
the text is, of course, I think what John is, is writing the,
the gospel that was the latest gospel to be written was
probably very aware that Peter would have been crucified.
So that's the obvious short answer to there.
But what does it mean to be powerless and to glorify God?
(48:54):
Is actually what you're doing isyou are following in the way of
Jesus, whose greatest act of sacrifice, redemption and
victory was at his most powerless moment.
So technically what we're doing,and I'm, I'll, I'll try and make
it practical in a minute as muchas I can, what we're doing is
(49:17):
we're trying to live a, what's called technically a cruciform
life, a cross shaped life. So we die to our own
independence, our own desires, our own ambitions, and actually
we live for the glory of God, but we actually grow less able.
(49:38):
So let me, I've not got his permission to tell you this.
And but he probably won't listen.
So I'll, I'll apologize to him later.
My dad's in a care home with Alzheimer's and it's a gradual
drift away. He's at his most, he's at his
(50:02):
weakest moment. He is the most reliant on care
and it's not where any of us would want him to be.
He can't walk anywhere except one of the carers always puts a
hand on on his back in case he falls.
He, he, he needs intimate care. He's it's just not great and he
(50:25):
forgets who I am and the rest. But in a place where he is at
his most weakest in lucid moments, he finds himself
praying with other members of his little community.
And so in a place where he doesn't want to go, where he's
(50:48):
dressed literally his, he's dying.
I think he's glorifying God. I, I, I know I asked for
questions, but to be honest, I'drather just talk.
(51:09):
I just see it as an opportunity.Let me tell you one last story.
And then and then you need to go.
Are you just praising the Lord? No, no, no, no, I, I it was just
a comma. Let me tell you a story about a
(51:31):
friend of mine who's now with Jesus.
Her name was Vera. Vera was 94.
She was still at home. She was blind, going deaf,
incontinent, requiring carers 4 times a day.
And during COVID, 1 member of our church said to me, Neil, you
(51:52):
need to go and see her. I think she's going to die this
week. So I broke all the laws and
rules and went to see her and she didn't die that week, so I
thought I'd better go next week.And she didn't die that week
either. She lived for 18 months.
(52:12):
But blow me down if I didn't go on Friday at 12:00.
I, you know. So Friday at 12:00 was my
appointment with Vera for 18 months.
Here's the thing about Vera. Blind incontinent carers 4 times
a day, confined to bed. She had a bed in the you know,
it was exactly as you imagine it.
(52:33):
You would think that someone like Vera at 94 was simply being
cared for, said this. She knew the name of every carer
and she knew all about their families and she would say to
her carers, my pastor comes on Friday at 12:00 because he
(52:53):
thinks I'm dying and it's a scamwe've got going but it's
working. And she said to all her carers,
me and my pastor will pray for you at 12:00 every Friday.
(53:14):
Vera had no agency, she had no power, she had no authority.
But at 94, she glorified God. So here's the thing, go in the
name of Jesus and be like Vera. Amen.
(53:45):
If you could do that, that's helpful for the guys who
organise this thing so next yearthey get someone good.
OK, well, how wonderful to see you.
I really didn't expect so many people coming for this
liturgical dance seminar and andfor all of you to have your own
leotards are quite remarkable. I genuinely thought you'd all be
(00:21):
in Betty's by now. But tomorrow, Tomorrow.
How wonderful. Wonderful.
It's you. We've just got one or two folks
coming, I think got a minute to go.
So just for the sake of it, it'skind of, I can see people as
they're coming up through up thestairs and next door is a young
Leaders seminar. And I can see people going, no,
(00:42):
it's not for me, not now, pardon.
OK. And you can also see the young
leaders because they're all late, whereas we were on time.
We're early. OK, well, as I say, fantastic to
(01:06):
see you. My name is Neil, Neil Hudson,
and my task for this hour is to do a little bit of input with
you, to give you time to reflect.
And I've been asked to leave enough time that you might have
questions and answers. So we're going to kind of try
and do a lot in just an hour. I've been a kneeling pastor for
(01:27):
40 years. This is my 40th conference.
I know we are now at the age where we go.
Well done for still being alive.Four years ago I came and I've
come ever since. I during the time of being an
alien pastor for four years I taught full time.
(01:50):
I've been a full time pastor forthe first ten years.
I was a full time pastor only ofI've only ever been involved in
two churches. One was in Guernsey.
OK, so some of you have heard ofGuernsey at least.
And the story I tell about Guernsey, particularly when we
(02:12):
were there in the 1980s, was that you, if you drove to the
town, the town 30 miles an hour,which was the speed limit on the
whole of the island, you didn't want to carry your car keys
around with you because they were bulky in your pocket.
So you'd park the car on the pier and you'd put the car keys
(02:35):
in the footwell, go and do your shopping, meet the whole of the
island, and then you'd come back.
And of course, when you got back, your car was still there.
Because if they stole it, where would they go?
On an island, 9 by three. You just walk and get it back
again. And from there I moved to
(02:58):
Salford in Manchester, which wasvery similar.
This is an this is not a preacher's story.
This is true. On the first week I was there I
was a very young pastor and we had a deacons meeting on the
Friday night and one of the deacon's cars was stolen outside
(03:23):
the church that had barbed wire all round it with steel doors
and anti anti shatterglass. We were looking for the kind of
seeker, sensitive, friendly, come and join us church and one
of the deacon's cars got nicked and we gathered the deacons
after the police had been called.
And we prayed that the young lads, and with a group of people
(03:45):
who will appreciate this, would click the cassette recorder in
the car and they would listen toGraham Kendrick singing Make
Way, Make Way. If I tell this story, we thought
like people in their 30s. I've got so much explanation to
do. It's nice to be among kindred
(04:05):
spirits and that somehow it would lead to saving faith.
And over the years in Salford, in those early years
particularly, I prayed that so many times that I had to do
until we started pray a more Psalm like prayer, biblical
prayer, which essentially said, oh God, get em.
(04:27):
And I'm not sure how God has answered any of those prayers,
but that's been my church for 37years.
But during that time I was teaching at the Bible college
and I've worked for other organisations.
But all of that time I've been akneeling minister and I've been
a pastor. But much more importantly, I'm a
(04:51):
son, I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm a grandfather, I'm a
friend and I'm juggling. I used to be the one who they
would wheel out from time to time to do cutting edge culture
stuff. Now I get to talk about being
(05:11):
old. So thank you for joining me.
It's 3:00. We're probably at that stage of
an afternoon where if you could just say to the person next to
you, if my head goes on your shoulder and I begin to drool,
(05:39):
can you just nudge me gently? I came across this.
One way to find out if you're old is this fall over?
If they laugh, you're still young.
If they run to help, you're old.I think you should try that this
(06:00):
week. We're over 60.
My generation, my age group, we thought we would retire at 65
and then they changed the rules.I laugh at my children, but my
(06:28):
granddad died at 64 and my grandma died at 63.
Both sides of the family. Neither experienced retirement.
Both were old before their time.Both were much older than I am
now, though in chronological age.
(06:49):
They were only two years older than me.
They were much older than I am now.
We've got better medical care, better food, better awareness of
health. The idea of either my grandma or
my granddad going to the gym just beggars belief really.
(07:14):
And so for them, they never had the opportunity to enjoy the
final third of life. But we will, and we will as
followers of Jesus. My take on discipleship is this.
(07:38):
In some churches. I've worked with lots of
churches because of the jobs I've done.
Can someone just answer the phone and say I'm busy?
Just tell them you're busy. Or if it's really interesting,
tell us what they're saying. In some churches, when we think
of discipleship, we think of it as a sort of the, the thing we
(08:01):
do post Alpha. So I've met church leaders and
worked with church leaders and said, how do you disciple people
in your church? And they go, oh, we've got a, a
course, six week course. And of course we know that
that's not really enough A&B. It's not actually how you grow
(08:24):
as a disciple. So my take on what a disciple is
is this, and it's my own definition and it has
weaknesses, but it's my own. A disciple is someone learning
the way of Jesus at this time, in this context, OK.
(08:45):
A disciple is someone learning the way of Jesus.
How do I walk obedient to Jesus in at this time in my context?
We never outgrow that moment of needing to learn the way of
Jesus. Five years ago my children came
(09:06):
and said, we have news for you. You will have more to do in the
day than you ever imagined. You will lose the freedom that
you thought you now had because we had left home many years ago.
You will be the 4th emergency service.
(09:29):
Yep. They told us they were having
grandchildren and it has been brilliant.
But I remember praying because I'm a disciple of Jesus, and I
wanted to ask Jesus, will you help me walk a pathway that I've
(09:50):
never walked before? I've never been in this context
before when I might have influence, but I don't have
authority. When my kids were little, I
thought I had authority. Of course, it was a joke, but
but I have no authority over my grandchildren, but I do have
influence. Jesus, will you help me as a
(10:12):
disciple of yours, learn your way in this context, At this
time, for some of you, inevitably you will have had to
face significant health issues, either for yourself or for those
you love. What's the way of Jesus in this
(10:35):
context? Never been diagnosed with cancer
before? I'm walking a pathway I don't
recognise and that is frightening.
Or I'm living with someone who I'm fearing might have the
beginnings of Alzheimer's. Or I'm in my case, I'm caring
for my dad who has got Alzheimer's.
(10:56):
Lord, I don't know how to do this.
Will you help me walk this way as a disciple of yours?
I think what I'm wanting to say,and I know you know this, we
never start being disciples who are learning the way of Jesus in
our context at this moment. And I suppose it's one of the
(11:18):
things I'd want you to, you know, if if you're just about to
fall asleep, at least you've heard the good bit.
I'd want you to hear that because actually that's that's
the thing about what it means tofollow Jesus in this context, at
this stage of life. What does it mean for me to
follow? And I think if we can imagine
ourselves as disciples like that, then actually one of the
(11:39):
things that happens is we go, OK, Lord, what are you doing?
The two questions we will explore together this afternoon
are these. What's my part to play now and
who am I becoming at this stage of life?
(12:03):
What's my part to play and who am I becoming?
Let me, I'll come back to that in a moment just to encourage
you. Life expectancy, this is
national figures, life expectancy at the age of 65.
If you were 65 between 2021 and 2023, your life expectancy, the,
(12:28):
the average life expectancy is if you're a male, 18 1/2 years
and if you're a female, 21 years.
If any of you are over that age right now, then just well done.
In 2020 to 2022, at the age of 65, the average healthy male
(12:48):
life expectancy was 75 and the female healthy life expectancy
was 76. So in other words, what the
difference is, is how long you live and actually how long you
might be deemed to be healthy. And I'm guessing because you all
(13:10):
made it to Harrogate, you're in the first category apart from
you live up the road. I know that.
But actually the question is, OKLord, so how do I use my time
really well and what's my part to play?
Well, I still got my health. Now, we all know that we're in
(13:34):
the phase of life that someone has called Sniper's Alley.
You know, it's kind of like you've just got to keep dodging.
But, and, and there's no guarantees here, Two things will
happen. One is we will have, please God,
many years of healthy, relatively healthy life.
(13:56):
And then there will come a time where we become dependent on
others. What's our part to play?
And who are we becoming in John chapter 21?
John's gospel ends with a numberof things, but one of the things
(14:17):
was Jesus speaking with Peter. And it's a passage you'll be
very aware of, but it's Jesus speaking to Peter.
Peter has gone through the Jesusasking him, do you love me?
And three times Jesus, Peter replies, I love you, you know I
love you. And three times Jesus
recommissions a man who'd failed.
(14:37):
But then Jesus looks further down the line and says to Peter,
I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and
went where you wanted. But when you are old, you will
stretch out your hands and someone else will dress you and
lead you where you do not want to go.
And Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter
(15:00):
would glorify God. And then he said, follow me.
I don't know how familiar you are with those very short
verses, but I find them poignant.
Just look at them again if you can, Peter, relatively young
(15:26):
man, of course, Jesus was 33. He gathered around him young
men, but Jesus looking down the line and going, Peter, Peter,
when you were younger you did what you wanted.
But as you get older, they will dress you, they'll stretch out
(15:51):
your hands, someone else will dress you and lead you where you
don't want to go. And Jesus said this to indicate
the kind of death by which Peterwould glorify God.
So Peter, what's your major way of glorifying God?
(16:13):
Yes, we know, upon this rock I'll build my church.
Yes, Peter, we know all you did in the book of Acts.
Yes, Peter, we know the people you raised from the dead and the
miracles you did. Yes, Peter, we know the way you
broke new territory. But actually you will glorify
God when you are at your weakest.
(16:36):
Now follow me. And I don't really.
I find it difficult on a personal level to want to
embrace the helplessness. But wouldn't it be great to
think that actually, when we eventually get there in our
helplessness, we will be most able to glorify God?
(16:59):
When we least feel like we're doing so?
When we least feel that we're agents.
When we're least feel that we'reenergetic.
When we least feel we're able tomake a difference.
When we least feel we are exactly where God wants to us to
be. When we feel uncomfortable.
(17:20):
When we are in the place we do not want to go, you'll glorify
God. So let me ask you the question,
(17:42):
where do you spend most of your time and what do you spend most
of your time doing? And I've got some categories
there. You might have others.
I wonder if I can, if you're able, can I ask you to stand and
to turn around and this is just a way of making working out with
it. Anybody's actually fallen asleep
(18:03):
yet? If you can stand just for a
moment and talk to someone and listen to someone.
Where do you spend most of your time in a week, an average week,
normal week? Where are you and what you're
doing in those places? And don't go through them bit by
bit, but where do you spend mostof your time?
Choose one of them. What do you spend your time
(18:25):
doing there? OK, OK, I'm going to ask you to
take your seats. OK, If you can just well,
(18:54):
it looked like most of you foundsomething to talk about, which
is great. How many of you said that you
spend most of your time on on inin work context?
That's great. How many of you spent said
church context most of your timein church?
Yeah, OK, that's all right. Family.
(19:15):
Yeah, there's quite a number of so work and and and church
leisure in leisure groups. Yeah, OK, pretty much similar.
And then it was sort of like other groups.
It was like sort of like voluntary groups or voluntary
organisations that sort of thing.
Great. OK.
So quite a number of you still working quite a many of you
still involved in church life. What I want to do is offer you
(19:41):
some of my thoughts about my situation.
So this is like extended therapy.
So thank you for coming. I've got a couch.
I'm going to lie down for a while.
And if you can just go MMM, at the appropriate time, that would
be very helpful. So my context is this, this is
(20:02):
of no significance to any of youexcept for me.
My context is that I'm, I'm working.
I'm a working pastor. But I've got a horizon in which
I won't be working in the role I'm in for many more years.
I, I, there's a, there's an end date and it's sooner rather than
(20:23):
later. OK, so in offering you these
things, I'm not speaking as any expert except a fellow
traveller. And I've reflected on some of
the things that I've been askingmyself at this stage of the
journey, the important thing foryou to really hear.
(20:45):
And may I, I'm going to say it really explicitly.
So none of you leave the room thinking I've said something I
haven't said. There are many years ahead for
me and you yet. There's much for us to do.
But actually what we need to do is find our appropriate place.
That's the key. So that's the, I hope that's
(21:08):
helpful for you to hear. Otherwise it's like, oh, right,
OK, we're done. We're not.
But we do enter into the most interesting phase of our lives.
It's interesting, isn't it? Because this phase of our life,
we're in the post 60 phase. And if you're under 60, what are
(21:30):
you doing here? If was the title not clear
enough? You have.
You and I have so much experience.
We have lived through so much. We've got scars, but boy have we
got stories. We've lived through humiliations
(21:55):
that are now brilliant dinner party stories.
We've lived through tragedy and disappointment, and to quote the
theologian Elton John, we are still standing, aren't we?
(22:19):
So we come with experience. Lots of us have been Christians
for decades now, and we know what faith looks like on the
good days. We also know what faith looks
like when God feels distant and we no longer are adolescents who
are desperately sort of trying to hype up our faith.
(22:41):
We're kind of securing it. We've gone through the valley of
doubt that may welcome again, but we've lived through valley
of doubt. We don't, we don't need to sort
of build a house there, but we know what doubt feels like.
We know what the absence of God feels like, and yet we still
follow Jesus. We are in the most interesting
(23:06):
phase of our life, but this is what's likely to happen to us.
We are likely to have reduced authority but increased
(23:26):
influence, reduced authority butincreased influence.
And I'm absolutely convinced actually that the way we embrace
this, the more we're at ease with this, the more help we will
be to others. I think it's when we try and
(23:52):
hang on to authority that we become unhelpful.
But when we use influence wisely, we become most helpful.
Does that resonate? Does that resonate with you?
So the first thing I've got three things to say about this.
One is I need to come to terms with, oh, just in those places
(24:18):
we need to, I need to come to terms with reduced authority.
And in my family and in my church and in my nation, I need
to recognise this, that our solutions were for yesterday's
problems. Our solutions were for
(24:42):
yesterday's problems. I have to hand over the baton to
the next generation and then notjudge when they fail or when
(25:06):
they stumble or when they make bad decisions because they are
facing their own battles. My children are approaching 40
years old. I had them as a teenager and
(25:27):
they have the children of their own and I don't know if any of
you know how it feels to need tobite your tongue.
I wonder, this is this is this is cheeky.
I wonder how many of you live with someone that you wish they
(25:47):
bit their tongue more often? Don't look at them because of
course you can see the solution.But my solution was actually for
yesterday's problem. The way I would have dealt with
it was what I did 20 years ago and I made mistakes 34 years ago
(26:09):
and I made mistakes. I remember what it was like
being a young dad trying to makemy way in my work context,
trying to juggle church, trying to be a husband and a father and
not really having a clue about any of it.
(26:30):
But being being unable to go. I don't know how to do it and I
got stuff wrong. I got stuff wrong in church.
I, I was a, I've been a pastor for four years, but I've made
dreadful mistakes in church withpeople.
(26:50):
I've said stuff that's really unhelpful.
I've made decisions that have been wrong.
I think there's times where as achurch we just miss what God was
doing. And it wasn't out of rebellion
and it wasn't out of a hard heart.
It was just I was doing my best,and the last thing I needed was
(27:11):
a generation of people who then were my critics.
What I needed were allies. I didn't need critics.
And as I look into the future, and as I'm actually dealing with
now with reduced authority but increased influence, I want to
(27:35):
be everybody's ally and no one'scritic.
Because I remember, I remember. I wonder what that would look
like in your context. In my context, one of the roles
(28:01):
I play is the family theologian.Last week the big question in
the grandchildren's generation was, did Jesus fart?
We were having this conversationon the way to school in front of
the lollipop lady. I said to Ivy, who's 5 1/2.
(28:31):
I'm not sure. But probably it wasn't enough
because on Sunday morning my sonsent me a text saying I've had
to finish your theology off because your answer was clearly
not enough. Quote UN quote.
Even Pops doesn't know if Jesus farted.
(29:00):
When Ivy's grandma Ron, her mum's side died.
Her mum and dad said go and talkto Pops about where grandma is
Ivy, who's 5 1/2 and has got a speech impediment.
So it was a very difficult conversation.
It took me ages to know what shewas asking.
(29:21):
We sat down and she said where'sgrandma now?
And you explained to A5 year oldof the best you can in ways that
she can understand what you think about life and death and
hope and mercy and grace. I have no authority over that
(29:46):
young life, but I embrace the influence.
I've been praying for that little girl from week 10 of her
conception. I have no authority, but I've
got influence. And I want to be my children's
(30:08):
allies, not their critics. And when I hand over the baton
of the church, the leadership ofthe church to the next
generation, because all that happened was 40 years ago,
someone said in Elim, will you go to Salford?
I was living in Guernsey pre Internet, didn't know where
Salford was. Looked it up in the library in
(30:31):
the Encyclopedia Britannica 1954.
They said nice things about it. Had they told the truth, Elim
said. Will you look after the church
for a while? And then my job is to say to
someone else, I've done my bit, I'm your ally, I'm not your
(30:55):
critic. And a church full of people who
are allies, not critics, are thestrength of a church.
Come to terms with reduced horizons and resist your
temptation. I was a few years ago, I was
(31:21):
doing a similar kind. It wasn't the same, wasn't the
same, but it was a similar kind of scenario with a similar
demographic. And I asked them, I can't
remember how I got onto it, but I said to them, what's your
biggest temptation? And, you know, I wasn't looking
for anything sort of, you know, sordid or too personal.
(31:43):
But one bloke put his hand up and he said now I'm retired, I
never have to spend time with people I don't like.
And I said, don't you go to church?
I thought his answer was brilliant and I asked him to say
(32:08):
more. He said.
Well, when I was at work, I was with, I was working with people
who were really difficult, he said.
Now if there are difficult people around, I just choose not
to be involved with them. I don't have to be involved with
anybody that actually gets on mynerves anymore.
I can buffer my life, he said. And that's my biggest
temptation. It's an example of an answer to
(32:35):
a question that you might want to ask yourself right now.
And I'm not going to ask you to put your hand up and tell us,
although I'd be desperately interested.
I wonder what your biggest temptation is at this stage of
life. For those of you that are
working, I wonder what your biggest temptation is.
(32:57):
I wonder for those of you that aren't working now or aren't
employed now, I wonder what yourbiggest temptation is.
I think the way that, and this is not going to be news to you,
I think the way the world offersthis stage of life to us is that
it becomes completely self centred.
(33:20):
You can't get past an ad break an ITV 3, can you, without a
river cruise? And they all look like us and
older. Yeah.
And we look and go, oh, well, I wouldn't want to go on that
cruise. We're all old.
(33:42):
Because this is, I mean, this isa cliche almost, but you know,
it should be true that it's kindof, that's what that's what
you've worked for. You've earned it.
As a previous generation would have said, you're worth it.
And I need to ask myself, what'sthe way of Jesus in my context
(34:08):
at this moment when it might notjust be that?
What's my biggest temptation now?
Am I making my life too comfortable?
Am I making my life too buffeted, buffered against
others? I wonder what you might say is
your biggest temptation. And my third question I'm asking
(34:28):
is can I come to terms with God's present call on my life,
on our lives. So when we think about and, and
this is, this is definitely applies for those of you that
are still in paid employment, but for all of us, wherever we
are, the Bible story really helps us work out what's our
call. So let me just do a quick sort
(34:49):
of basic theology where we are, we live in God's good creation
and we can see what God's intention was for the world.
Genesis. We know it's broken.
We know the fall happened because of sin.
But then there's the act of redemption, not only the
(35:09):
redemption of Jesus, but also the act of redemption that
happens in God's people, by God's people, as a demonstration
of what it means to be the full image of God in the Old
Testament, excuse me, sorry. And the church in the New
Testament before the consummation of what will be.
(35:32):
And we live in our world. So the context that you might be
facing the world that you might be involved with, what's God's
intention for that place? So you might be, I don't know,
I'm just guessing, but you mightbe part of a Tennis Club or a
(35:53):
book club club. We joined a book group, me and
my wife a few months ago. Friend of ours, new shop, she
has a book group. We joined it.
I've run book groups in the past, but what I discovered
about at least our book group isthey don't talk about the book.
(36:19):
It strikes me that not reading the book is not a
disqualification to join in the book group because within about
10 minutes they're talking aboutthemselves.
For an hour every month we listen to a group of 12-13
people, none of whom are Christians as far as we know,
(36:41):
talk about their own lives. Now, without being too sort of
like mission, you know, fired upabout it.
What's God's intention for that book group?
That I'd just be, I'm a part of I'm I'm I'm belong to now.
What's broken in that book groupand what's my part to play that
(37:08):
might demonstrate something of God's goodness in the book
group? Do you see what I'm trying to
get at? So for those of you that are
still in a, in a, in a paid employment context, you think
about your, your job situation. What is your job's purpose in
God's good creation? You know, if you're an
(37:31):
accountant, your job as an accountant is to enable a, a, a
company to thrive healthily in terms of finance.
Your job is to enable people in that company to thrive with
whatever it's doing. And what's broken?
Well, there's any number of things that might be broken
(37:53):
financially. What's your part to play?
Well, we'll do it. We'll tell the truth about the
accounts. What's the point of telling the
truth about the accounts? So you might know exactly what
situation you're in. I know my part and I know how I
can act redemptively. I wonder how that would be in
(38:14):
your street. So just thinking about it really
locally on the street you live in, what's God's good purpose
for your street? You've got a street, an Ave.
You're close. God would want people to be in
(38:35):
community together, to care for one another, to not overlook the
lonely, the poor, the lost. So that's God's desire.
What's broken? What's broken may well be that
in your area there's nowhere where people actually meet
(38:57):
'cause you all go into your house, come out of your house as
quick as you like. So one person in our church
decided what they would do in their street is in the summer
they would invite all of their neighbors to a BBQ.
They lived in a cul-de-sac. They would invite all of their
neighbors to a barbecue in the cul-de-sac on the road.
(39:20):
And neighbors met for the first time and they were redemptive in
what they were doing. What happened then over a number
of years is they started a Carolservice at Christmas in their
cul-de-sac and all the neighborscame and they read the Christmas
story and they got kids to read it and they got carols to be
(39:41):
sung and they prayed their prayers and they started to be a
redemptive activity. But they did it because the
woman decided she would offer her.
She was retired. She would offer her services as
a cleaner to all her neighbors. Now they've thought through
(40:09):
what's God's desire for my street?
What's broken here? Young professionals, they're all
over the place. They're never connected.
What can I do on my street? I wonder what that might.
Producing you. What's my part to play?
(40:37):
What can you do that no one elsecan do?
Only some people can call you. Only some people can call me
Pops. Only three people in the world
call me Pops. They have no one else they can
(40:58):
call that name to. Only one person in the world can
call me a husband. Only two people in the world can
call me Dad. A handful of people in the world
can call me their friend. A church can call me their
fellow worshipper. In my street there's those and
(41:26):
another family who are Christians.
That's it. There's only certain people can
call you by name. What's your part to play?
The river cruise is offered as an option.
But God has a role for you to play, a role for me to play that
(41:46):
only we can play. And if we don't play our part,
there's a gap in the creation, fall, redemption, consummation.
Picture. The last question I'd like, oh,
(42:08):
sorry, I'm ahead of myself. The last question I'd like to
ask is of myself. Who am I becoming?
Who am I becoming? It doesn't take much for me to
get really grumpy. A bad night's sleep, A quick
(42:31):
neck. And sometimes I become people
that I don't want to be. Who am I becoming?
Jesus? Will you fashion me so I might
become more like you. I want to glorify God in this
(42:56):
third of life. So I've got some questions for
you. What crossroads are you at?
What would you do if you weren'tafraid?
And if you die tonight in the auditorium, please don't.
(43:26):
It takes the edge off the meeting for the rest of us.
If you die tonight, what would you regret not doing?
Can you be yourself where you are and still fit in?
And if not, what do you need to do?
And if you can, are there changes needed?
What is the no, the refusal thatyou keep postponing?
(43:50):
And what have you said yes to that you no longer believe in?
What forgiveness are you withholding?
How have you contributed to the problem you need to solve, and
what's the gift you're withholding?
(44:15):
I'm going to give you 3 or 4 minutes to take one of those
questions for yourself. I don't know if any of those
questions are helpful to you, but if they are, just take one
of them. Some of you are jotting down
stuff. I don't know what you're jotting
down, whether you're just writing shopping lists or
(44:36):
whatever, but if you are jotting, then just jot your
answers to one of those questions.
I'm going to pray and I'm going to trust that at least one of
those questions might be used byGod just to nudge you a little
bit along the way. And then we'll have about 10
(44:57):
minutes for some general thoughts, questions, responses.
Lord Jesus, may your Spirit comeand rest on us.
Take the offering I've made. Take our thoughts, take our
reflections. Help it just to be another
little stepping stone on the way.
(45:20):
We're learning your way, the wayof Jesus in our context at this
moment. Amen.
Just take a moment or two. Just have a look, OK?
We won't have that one. I wonder if just for a moment
(45:52):
you can turn to someone near youand say during the whole time he
was talking, this was the thought that Kate coming back or
this was the question that I had.
All right, so if you just turn to someone and go while he was
talking, I don't just mean thoselast bit, the whole thing while
he was talking, this was, this is what either I found helpful
(46:15):
or this was the question I had. This was the thought that I was
thinking. These are the questions that I
might have had. Do you want to do that?
Just you've already discovered who the intelligent ones are, so
go back to them. It's too late to risk it with
someone else. And and I meant to say before,
by the way, that some of you, some of us hate this moment
(46:35):
because it's like we're the introverts and all you've got to
do is make sure you're with an extrovert.
You will not have to speak because they won't let you.
So just so here's the tip. And it's like a life hack for
you because you'd be in this situation before because you're
a Christian again, just say get,always be the first to say.
(46:58):
What do you think? And that means that you don't
have to speak. So there you go.
What were you thinking? What's the questions that you
might have now? Just for two minutes and then
we'll take some of those thoughts and questions.
Off you go. OK, let me bring you back again.
We've got just about 5 minutes to go.
(47:32):
OK, recognise the extroverts haven't even really cleared
their throat yet, they're just getting going.
But I wonder if if there's any thoughts or questions that you'd
(47:52):
want to offer for all of us. Any thoughts or questions?
Yeah, I'm going to bring the microphone to you so that could
you just pass the microphone across?
Thank you. This is fairly simple when
you've got a couple of minutes for this, but the the the
Scripture from John where where Jesus said to Peter this was the
(48:12):
sort of death by which he would glorify.
What would that actually look like?
What would we actually have to do to glorify Jesus as we age
and die? Any other questions?
(48:32):
I, I think I mean the, the short, the short answer for, for
the text is, of course, I think what John is, is writing the,
the gospel that was the latest gospel to be written was
probably very aware that Peter would have been crucified.
So that's the obvious short answer to there.
But what does it mean to be powerless and to glorify God?
(48:54):
Is actually what you're doing isyou are following in the way of
Jesus, whose greatest act of sacrifice, redemption and
victory was at his most powerless moment.
So technically what we're doing,and I'm, I'll, I'll try and make
it practical in a minute as muchas I can, what we're doing is
(49:17):
we're trying to live a, what's called technically a cruciform
life, a cross shaped life. So we die to our own
independence, our own desires, our own ambitions, and actually
we live for the glory of God, but we actually grow less able.
(49:38):
So let me, I've not got his permission to tell you this.
And but he probably won't listen.
So I'll, I'll apologize to him later.
My dad's in a care home with Alzheimer's and it's a gradual
drift away. He's at his most, he's at his
(50:02):
weakest moment. He is the most reliant on care
and it's not where any of us would want him to be.
He can't walk anywhere except one of the carers always puts a
hand on on his back in case he falls.
He, he, he needs intimate care. He's it's just not great and he
(50:25):
forgets who I am and the rest. But in a place where he is at
his most weakest in lucid moments, he finds himself
praying with other members of his little community.
And so in a place where he doesn't want to go, where he's
(50:48):
dressed literally his, he's dying.
I think he's glorifying God. I, I, I know I asked for
questions, but to be honest, I'drather just talk.
(51:09):
I just see it as an opportunity.Let me tell you one last story.
And then and then you need to go.
Are you just praising the Lord? No, no, no, no, I, I it was just
a comma. Let me tell you a story about a
(51:31):
friend of mine who's now with Jesus.
Her name was Vera. Vera was 94.
She was still at home. She was blind, going deaf,
incontinent, requiring carers 4 times a day.
And during COVID, 1 member of our church said to me, Neil, you
(51:52):
need to go and see her. I think she's going to die this
week. So I broke all the laws and
rules and went to see her and she didn't die that week, so I
thought I'd better go next week.And she didn't die that week
either. She lived for 18 months.
(52:12):
But blow me down if I didn't go on Friday at 12:00.
I, you know. So Friday at 12:00 was my
appointment with Vera for 18 months.
Here's the thing about Vera. Blind incontinent carers 4 times
a day, confined to bed. She had a bed in the you know,
it was exactly as you imagine it.
(52:33):
You would think that someone like Vera at 94 was simply being
cared for, said this. She knew the name of every carer
and she knew all about their families and she would say to
her carers, my pastor comes on Friday at 12:00 because he
(52:53):
thinks I'm dying and it's a scamwe've got going but it's
working. And she said to all her carers,
me and my pastor will pray for you at 12:00 every Friday.
(53:14):
Vera had no agency, she had no power, she had no authority.
But at 94, she glorified God. So here's the thing, go in the
name of Jesus and be like Vera. Amen.
(53:45):
If you could do that, that's helpful for the guys who
organise this thing so next yearthey get someone good.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.