Episode Transcript
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Fin (00:00):
How much has he spent on
ads?
Like millions of dollars on ads, Probably over the last 10
years.
Professor Charley T (00:04):
I stopped
counting at like 500 million and
that was like 2018.
And it was like just becausegifting and it was just like,
let's say, in a smiley face, itended up like making Facebook
groups happen.
I was a bad employee, so I gotto be in a lot of different
rooms, but I was a smart cookie,so everybody wanted me there.
So I had the luxury of basicallybeing the like star new
employee every six to ninemonths and yeah right.
(00:27):
And so the smartest people inthe room took me under their
wing to try to like mold me intowhat they wanted.
And then they realized, oh,this guy's never going to be a
good employee.
And then they sent me on mymerry way and like a decade went
by and so I ended up just likekind of getting exposed to stuff
in a way that I was reallylucky to.
When you know what can I say?
Like I do have an MBA.
(00:48):
I've got like multiple collegedegrees, not because I'm smart,
but because I was a junkie and Ijust wanted to be a good
employee.
I was a junkie and I didn'trealize they had to pay back
student loans, so I justbasically suffice myself as a
strung out heroin addict bygetting new student loans,
getting another college degree.
Fin (01:05):
We're live, let's do it.
But I'm actually so.
I'm so keen now that we'rerecording to get all of this
info from you.
We've been chatting like last30 minutes and it's real.
I really like when I get toknow someone and they're the
exact person that they are onthe screen, like they're not
bullshitting, and so.
Professor Charley T (01:23):
Yeah.
Fin (01:25):
I'm stoked to have you here
, bro, like the Facebook ads
expert, the old Alex Hormoziovof ads and yeah, and just get
everything.
I can from you and I knoweveryone will be everyone
listening will be like realchuffed as well to learn a lot
from you.
You got like heaps of peoplealready around you 10,000
subscribers on YouTube, a fewthousand subscribers across like
(01:47):
Instagram, tiktok, um threads Ithat's - I feel like threads is
kind of where we connect alittle bit more than it is to be
honest, I don't know how thathappened, but that's what we
found each other.
Yeah, it works, we found eachother.
Professor Charley T (02:01):
Yeah.
Fin (02:01):
So, um, I'm just, I'm real
keen to talk to you today.
I think you spent, like howmuch you spent on it?
Like millions of dollars on ads, probably over the last 20.
Professor Charley T (02:10):
I stopped
counting at like 500 million and
that was like 2018.
Fin (02:15):
Yeah, that's crazy.
There's just a crazy amount ofmoney.
Professor Charley T (02:18):
I
legitimately had a seven figure
daily ad budget for a while.
I'm like drop a million.
Today, like I've been there andit's not.
Like, oh, my agency has doneall of this stuff and it's
people know.
Like, literally like I lostsleep because I was worried
about, like, where the commawent.
I made a typo once and was afifty thousand dollar mistake.
(02:40):
Like, um, yeah, I like I saidaround like 2017, 2018, I kind
of just stopped counting.
Fin (02:48):
Hmm, that's, yeah, it's.
It's so cool and I've beenwatching a lot of stuff like on
the tick tock on the YouTube,been following you for a while
and I really like just how youthink about Facebook's ads in
general.
So I think, yeah, I'm keen tojust rip in and have a chat
about everything, bro, and aboutthe journey in terms of how you
got to where you are today andand like what you think about
(03:11):
ads, how you run ads.
I know you're really, reallyinto the broad versus like
really specific targeting stuff.
Yeah, but a couple questionsfor you at the end and then ask
how you do all the businessstuff as well.
So let's get to the firstquestion for you, just like
ripping in, like how did you getto where you are today?
Like what's, how did you?
How did you get here?
Professor Charley T (03:31):
Yeah, I
mean to be fair, I mean it's
such a long story.
I mean you know I was a, wentto college, got a real good drug
habit, became a tour musician,serious sex and radio
personalities Hulk Hogan, sextape room, my radio career and
girlfriend got, went to rehab,banned, kicked me out and I was
basically just an opportunity toget sober and get my shit
(03:53):
together or or die Jails,institutions and death.
And so I, being a fucking being, a stubborn cockroach, I
basically just made it out andCalifornia got sober.
I got like 11 years clean nowand got a job.
(04:15):
Like moved to LA on like aMonday, got a job interview on
like a Friday at this likeillegitimate social media ad
agency social media agency thisis before Facebook ads or before
like most people were doing itand had that job for like three
months and then, like they losttheir biggest account, so last
(04:37):
hired, first fired kind ofsituation, took one of their
clients with me and then startedmy own agency, ended up on the
show from on AMC called thePitch and ended up winning the
last episode of that show.
It was like this reality showof two ad agencies competing to
be the agency of record forsomething.
(04:58):
So is one hundred flowers tryingto figure out how to spend a
hundred thousand dollars onpromotional campaign, but you
could only do it on the internet, which, at the time, was crazy,
like like the idea that youwould spend a hundred thousand
dollars on social media was waswas an insane ask, but the idea
(05:18):
at the time and this is reallybefore ads were around, but the
I mean they had been around fora little while, but I wasn't
using them yet.
This is maybe 2012, 2013.
There was this one hundredflowers has this like five
dollar cookie.
That's a smiley face.
And so what we did was say, ok,a hundred grand, I'm going to
(05:40):
give you a cookie and a voucherand then you can basically give
somebody else, you can pay itforward, right.
And then what we did is like allright, facebook, we're going to
do this thing to pay it forward.
And then let's just make likethis page where everybody that
pays it forward can like seeeach other, and it ended up
becoming like Facebook groups,which is wild, and because that
(06:04):
really didn't exist.
Well, you had pages, but thisis like a group, a community,
and so that was cool that thatended up working and it was like
just because gifting and it wasjust like, let's say, in a
smiley face I ended up likemaking Facebook groups happen
and for a while there too,starbucks and some other places
you could buy a gift card likerandomly inside of Facebook for
(06:27):
people and buy them cards.
They don't let you do itanymore.
I don't know why, but it wasaround for like three to six
months and that was an offshootof the tech, because we were
like you can buy it.
You can basically forward oneof your Facebook friends.
That is cookie right, and sothey just kept the functionality
and tried it out with a coupleof advertisers, but anyway got
the big contract.
My business partner that Istarted with was this like
(06:49):
Sharkey lawyer Inc isn't evendry.
He fires me.
Apparently, I wrote a contract.
I signed a contract where hewas paying me 2K a month and he
could fire me whenever he wanted.
So then started another agency,a social organic, for about
another three months and mybiggest client fired me because
(07:10):
he was like look, I'm stillbuddies with this guy, but he's
like you know.
I put 100 bucks into Facebookand it did more for me than I
paid 2000 a month on organicsocial.
And again, this is like 2013,.
Right, spring of 2013,something like that.
Yeah, and so I, like my woundseight, you know, had some
carbohydrate therapy that nightand then put my credit card into
(07:31):
Facebook the next day andstarted promoting my band.
And within three months I wasrunning ads for Jamba Juice and
Viking River Cruises.
Within six months, I was doingstuff for like Jane, silent Bob
and like Robert Rodriguez moviesand like Comic Con appearances
and stuff.
And within nine months, I got ajob as supervisor at Omnicom
(07:54):
for their West Coast office forperformance media, basically
managing paid social for brandslike CBS and Nissan and working
with like Activision and Levi'sand Apple.
And yeah, I went from basicallynever having a real day job to I
got a suit from a fast fashionlike H&M like a $40 suit, got
(08:17):
the job interview and I wentfrom basically being
unemployable to like being myown boss and getting fired every
three months to here's the damnnear six figure income with
full benefits and everything.
And like I was wearing cowboyboots and like band T shirts,
torn up jeans, I was showing uplate, I didn't know how to use
Outlook so I could never sendemails to anybody and like they
(08:37):
knew I was a bad hire prettyquick but it was corporate
America, so it took like ninemonths to fire me and over that
period of time I was spendingseven figures a day on Facebook
in like 2013.
Before there was a Facebookpixel, like it was like you
could only buy like clicks orpage likes or like engagements
or views or something like that,and so I just started running
(09:00):
case studies and internally, andI got in trouble, like what
they ultimately were able tofire me for was I was running
case studies on client money andpublishing them by basically
sending it out to at all atOmnicom, which I thought was
just the office, but apparentlywas Omnicom corporate, and I was
just like, hey, I spent amillion dollars for CBS
(09:22):
yesterday and we quoted them orno, we quoted them a million
dollar budget and, to be fair, Iwas getting paid 75 K a year
plus benefits, so ended up beinglike 90 something thousand a
year, awesome paycheck.
But we had a 20 percentcommission on ad spend.
So if I spent a million thatday I'd make 200,000 a profit
for my company.
(09:42):
So you figure, 200,000 a profit, do that every day for a year
and they're paying me like 75 K.
I did the math in my head realquick and I was like this is
kind of nonsense.
And, to be fair, most adagencies to this day do that.
Like you look at I won't namenames, but there's a lot of ad
agencies that I call out oftenand like they might pay their
(10:04):
buyers like 70, 80,000, whichsounds like a lot.
So you realize the reallycharging clients 20 to $50,000 a
month and they pay the personthat does 90 percent of the work
like a thousand bucks a monthand they just give them like
five or six clients and then ifthe client leaves, they just
give them a new one.
But there's never any support,there's bad training and it's
just like the unit economics areridiculous.
But anyway, point is we caughtthem a million, me looking out
(10:30):
for the client.
I figured out a way tooverdeliver, basically reach
more people in America moreoften than the original quote,
and I did it for like 800 grand.
So I saved the client 200 Gsand I walk in there proudly,
send this case study out toeverybody and they're like you
just cost us $40,000 in a dayand you did it seven times this
(10:52):
week.
Then you wrote a case studythat you sent to all employees
about what a great job you didand then that was like what they
needed, right.
So that's where I'm.
A 30 day plan and bottom lineis from there.
I bounced around from ad agencyto ad agency, brand side and
stuff like that ended up in aplace called 310 Nutrition and I
(11:16):
came in there.
They were doing about 15million.
About 20 months later we wereat about 100 million, started.
The Facebook Disruptor Groupwith the original brands was
developing Power 5, so it was inthe original case studies for
like broad targeting, advancedmatching, cbo, dynamic ads.
Part of my job at Omnicom, oddlyenough, was I was the first guy
(11:39):
to run a lead gen ad and thenlater on I was the first guy to
run like a DPA ad for Macy's andthen I get this job at 310
Nutrition and I was the firstone doing a lot of these other
things that are now juststandard practice, like dynamic
ads, cbo, broad targeting, allof that stuff, and worked there
for a while and it was the firstjob I didn't get fired from.
(12:00):
I got poached.
Basically we went for a buyoutfrom Deloitte.
It went south at the lastminute like the 11th hour.
They were like there was 98million.
Let me not claim nine figures,there was 98 million 2 million.
Fin (12:14):
I'll keep it up.
I'll be honest, real quick,100% not my money, by the way.
Professor Charley T (12:18):
I was just
an employee, but I did have a
knack of getting fired andbasically getting a new job that
paid me a little bit better,which was awesome.
I got fired from the 75K joband I got a 90K job, which was
great, especially when I wasused to working for like 10
bucks an hour or being a junkiethat was trying to beg, borrow
(12:38):
and steal anything just to notdie.
So it was a pretty nice littlechange of pace.
I went from basically beingdestitute and unemployable to
like I have no idea what I'meven supposed to do like taxes,
because I've never seen thisbefore.
But yeah, so anyway, vicepresident of there came from
Guthrie Rinker, moved on toanother company.
Afterwards he got hiredbasically on a Tuesday on
(13:03):
Wednesday, brought me in, islike the first hire, is you, we
need to get this guy.
And then the owner of thatcompany was like basically back
to Brink's truck up to my houseand was like you're not leaving
here until you say that you'regonna come for this job.
And I say, all right, fine,I'll do it.
And it's like a Wednesday andhe's like, all right, cool, I'll
see you tomorrow.
And I'm like I still have a job.
I gotta give him like my twoweeks or whatever.
He's like all right, so we'llgive you equity or like profit
(13:27):
sharing points and I'm just likefine, okay, whatever, I'll just
do it.
And I'm like dude, I also havea bachelor party, like next week
.
Someone to be gone like it waslike cool, so come and grab a
laptop on Thursday and I'll seeyou in like two weeks.
He just didn't care, like hewas not, he had this guy sold, I
think, reunion in classmatescomback in thecom bubble, for,
(13:49):
like you know, I never need toworry about money, ever again.
Money when he was like 25, andthat was like 20 years ago.
So like I was not leaving thatroom and not being his employee,
basically, and then that iscrazy.
And during that time, like I gotbooted out of all the Facebook
groups and because I'm reallybad for these, like funnel
Facebook groups by, you know,common thread and Thai Lopez and
(14:12):
all these other like really lowintegrity folks and the Tim
Bird's of the world and whatnotand so I ended up making my own
Facebook group because when Ileft the agency, well, I didn't
have anybody to talk to.
So I was like I went toFacebook and like joined all the
groups which now existed and Irealized there was a light years
ahead of everybody and so Istarted to answer people's
(14:34):
questions.
I got bumped.
I got literally kicked out ofevery single group that you can
join on Facebook that hasFacebook ads, like in the title,
like the hundreds, hundreds,and, to be fair, I was spamming
them all.
I was just spamming them allwith good information, but
whatever.
they seemed to frown upon thatand I started my own thing and I
(14:55):
was just like I'll go live oncea week on a Saturdays maybe
2017, 2018, I'll go live forlike a week, an hour every
Saturday and just give a classand that group like 13,000
people.
I started a Patreon because Iplay with like fantasy football,
fantasy sports, and I'm justlike all these guys, all these
YouTubers have a Patreon.
I'm for like five bucks whereyou get their info.
I was like I've been answeringthe same question over and over
(15:16):
again.
I wrote the answer in like alittle PowerPoint deck and then
like a 10 pager and it was likehey, you can get all my answers
for like five bucks.
That thing grew and grew andended up being like $20,000 a
month and then, like I startedto get into more coaching and
more business development stuff.
Covid happened, worked from thehouse, had more time to work on
(15:38):
it, really built out a businessdoing that, you know, and by
that time I've been going livelike every week for maybe 40
years.
So I got real good at it and,being on radio personality, like
I'm proving right here, I cantalk to you at brick wall for
four hours and completelyentertain myself.
Fin (15:55):
Well, you're entertaining
me and everyone as well.
Professor Charley T (15:57):
I'm talking
to you on a journey.
Yeah right, it's thestorytelling, I think, is the
key and 100%.
And basically they were like,hey, covid, restrictions are
kind of lifting in LA, so youwant to come back to the office.
And I was like, no, why don'tyou take your laptop?
And I got a severance.
They basically bought me out ofthe you know the points or
(16:18):
whatever they'd given me, andmeanwhile I'd gotten a second
job at home.
So I was starting, I was doingmy own Patreon thing we end
doing that and doing thisbusiness called my Life and we
were spending maybe 50K a day,something like that.
It wasn't, you know, maybe acouple hours a day max work.
And then I started training adagencies how to function.
(16:39):
So there's ad agency out ofCanada that I was working with
and some other ones and I wasjust building agencies up for
people, because I accidentallystarted a couple agencies
sitting at my desk because, like, running Facebook takes a
couple hours a week.
So, like at 310 Nutrition, Ithink, every year, when the new
season of Game of Thrones wouldcome out, I would spend like the
two weeks before watching everyepisode in order at my desk and
(17:04):
then, like I do it, I do thatwith.
Fin (17:05):
Marvel movies as well,
whenever there's any one I watch
every single one there, yeah.
Professor Charley T (17:10):
You get the
saga.
You know what I mean.
But I would just sit at my deskwatching shit and we'd be like,
what are you doing?
You should be working.
I'm like, look at the Shopifywe hit 100K.
It's like two o'clock in theafternoon when I came here.
We were doing 25.
Like I'm good, I'm gonna go backto my show now.
And like they gave me too much,I was just like see you guys,
I'm gonna go to Chipotle anddrive home.
Like once you hit 100K, I'dpeace out, Like if it's 11 am or
(17:32):
whatever, I don't care, myjob's done for the day.
And so I was doing differentthings and basically at that
point it was maybe two weeksbefore my wedding and I was like
I'm done, I quit, and theybought me out of my deal and I
had launched, I had taken what Ihad done for ad agencies and
(17:56):
that summer, or that I'm notsaying at the same time, about a
month before, I had made itavailable for any marketer, any
brand that wants to replacetheir agency or any marketer
that wants to be an agency orany agency that wants to get
better.
And that was the Facebook adsof the A program.
And long story short, like.
I made my annual income at myday job in 60 days and I was
(18:20):
just like.
Fin (18:21):
I quit.
Professor Charley T (18:25):
My mom was
like you quit your job two weeks
before your wedding.
I'm like ma, I'm paying forthis wedding in cash.
We're good, and basically sincethen I've been unemployed.
Fin (18:38):
Bro, that's crazy, and you
just did such a good job of like
you just did such a good joband I honestly felt like that
was two minutes and that endedup being like 10 minutes.
But you just gave such thisgood like overview of how you
got from I don't know like thelast 10, 12 years to right now,
and I felt like the whole time Iwas like living right there
(19:01):
with you.
Oh, thanks Bro you're such agood storyteller, like I think
the energy and the intent behindthat comes through and that's
why and obviously the radioskills and you've been going
live for ages and everythingelse as well comes into that but
it was like so enjoyable.
I felt like you coveredeverything, but not too much.
Professor Charley T (19:19):
Thank you
so much.
Fin (19:20):
Yeah, that was great.
Professor Charley T (19:22):
I tried to
skip around.
I mean I skipped.
There's a million sagas in allof those 15 different life
stories.
But like, yeah, like that's.
Yeah, there was that's amazingon the cake, man.
Fin (19:30):
The Hulk Hogan thing.
There's the base of groups as aresult of the 1-800-Flowers
thing.
Professor Charley T (19:37):
There's
like a Legion as, which is weird
to think of, just like, oh, wehad this idea.
I'm sitting at a diner in WestHollywood and I was like what,
if it's just because we justsend these things off and we
make a button and then we justgroup them together and, okay,
cool, now they're Facebookgroups.
Like that is bizarre.
(19:58):
And I'm not saying I'm theengineer of like, I just gave
them an idea and then they ranwith it, but that's the tech
they had to build to execute thething for 1 a hundred flowers,
because it was on this.
It was the show that came onafter Mad Men, and so, like Mad
Men, you know, on aim With greatshow, and there was a show that
came on afterwards and theywere like, well, uh, we should
probably do this thing, these,this team, one 100 flowers wants
(20:21):
to do it.
Oh, let's give it a shot.
But that's a car man.
Fin (20:26):
Like how you've been
involved in quite a few of these
like pivotal moments ofFacebook, oh yeah.
Professor Charley T (20:34):
Yeah, like,
it's like 100%, like Tom Hanks
or like slumdog millionaire.
Like, yeah, all I've done.
All I've done was be the guyself-deprecating enough that can
like interview well, and it wassmart enough at one thing or
another to place the previouslife Event to the next thing to
the next thing to the next thingis just like.
(20:55):
I was a bad employee, so I gotto be in a lot of different
rooms, but I was a smart cookie,so everybody wanted me there.
So I had the luxury ofbasically being the like star
new employee every six to ninemonths.
And yeah, right, like, and and.
So the smartest people in theroom took me under their wing to
(21:15):
try to like mold me into whatthey wanted.
And then they realized, oh,this guy's never gonna be a good
employee.
And then they sent me on mymerry way and like a decade went
by and so I ended up just likekind of getting exposed to stuff
in a way that Was really luckyto.
And you know what can I say?
Like I do have an MBA, I've gotlike multiple college degrees,
(21:35):
not because I'm smart, butbecause I was a junkie and I
didn't realize they had to payback student loans.
So I just basically sufficemyself as a strung-out heroin
addict by getting new studentloans, getting another college
degree which works in retrospect.
Yeah but you know, like I justhad giant checks written to my
name and like, cool, now I don'thave to have a job, this is
(21:57):
great.
I'll go be a radio DJ and makenothing but drink for free.
This is great.
Hmm and worked out.
I don't recommend this path toanybody, yeah, but there are
some lessons hopefully in therefor people.
Fin (22:12):
Well, I just think it's
cool, even like how you say you
know you bounce around jobs butyou had that six or nine months
of being that star in youremployee.
You had you know like tendifferent experiences of
probably people who, one way oranother, had something On you in
terms of knowledge orexperience and that all, yeah,
you.
And then you will fold that intoeverything you do, like just
(22:33):
getting from the point fromwhere you were doing like social
media, to then paydads.
To then let me like work withreal big budgets and my god,
facebook's got nothing right now.
So let me figure out how I canbest give the clients results
that is being millions ofdollars but there's no data.
And then, yeah, into the nextthing and then scaling that as
you found your models in yoursystems and like now, yeah, you
(22:56):
and and Facebook's probablychanged a lot, but I know now
you're quite big on the wholeBroad, targeting dynamic
creatives, like let Facebook dothe work and be really bored, as
opposed to Targeting what'swhat, what is your kind of?
Do you want to go into that alittle bit more around like
Facebook ads?
Yeah, so I was listening as abusiness owner being like I want
(23:17):
ads or I want to do this.
Professor Charley T (23:19):
What's like
the best yeah well, let me, let
me give it just a quickbackstory on this and then dive
into it.
So One of those things aboutbeing that guy with the
seven-figure budget and whateverelse.
At the time, facebook was likea weird platform to advertise on
, like everybody that was goodwas doing Yahoo search.
So just yahoo Time that existsin what a time right yahoo
(23:43):
search, oh my yeah, yeah, oh.
Fin (23:46):
It's platform.
Professor Charley T (23:47):
Oh, dude,
if you were good at yahoo, you
you could pay the bills.
You were, you had a job forlife.
So basically what happened waslike there was like one Facebook
rep for everybody, like West ofChicago.
Hmm so, when they came to theoffice, nobody wanted to talk to
but all I did was Facebook,right, and so, because of my,
(24:10):
because of my work, like thatwas all that I was doing, and so
, basically, what ended uphappening?
We brighten this up a littlebit, there we go.
So what ended up happening wasI Made friends the engineering
team, I made friends the productteam and I got to know, like,
how they were doing each step ofthe way.
Every time they were doingthings because, like they were
(24:35):
like, hey, we need to figure itout.
Like the lead gen ad, they werelike when we built this thing,
nobody wants to use it, but weneed somebody who's willing to
spend X amount of money.
It's like I have Nissan and Ihave to do an alpha three times
a year, four times a year.
I've got like two weeks to go,spend a million dollars on a new
idea and then like, well, okay,let's give it a shot.
And so, like the first lead genad was trying to run, could we
(24:58):
convince people to sign up usingthe internet to arrange a test
drive at a car dealership, andit worked.
Now, like a lot of cardealerships have people like
signing up test drives and likeit, it cost us maybe a hundred
bucks to get somebody to take atest drive of a car and, like
(25:19):
one out of two, you know, Ithink.
Well, it was 50 bucks to getsomebody to sign up on the lead
and one out of two bought a$25,000 vehicle.
So, like we're doing the math,it's like a 250 X row, as stupid
.
The point is, though, like IWas there helping them out on a
lot of the steps for making alot of the things, because I had
(25:40):
a really big budget, because Iwas constantly popping up with
new clients, new problems, andalso I was willing to take their
work, and I was willing to makemistakes because, obviously,
like I was sending out casestudies of doing everything
wrong to use the platformProperly the whole data like
Facebook loved me, right.
Facebook is like oh good.
So I ended up working with themon how it worked and especially
(26:01):
, the most important part isTowards the end of 2017,
beginning of 2018.
Facebook made a huge shift.
Up to that point, they weretrying to be a version of Google
display, where you randomlyshowed ads in somebody's
Experience and you bid on, likehow much you were willing to pay
(26:21):
for us a click or impressionsand all of that stuff, and they
could track the conversions andall sorts of fun things.
Hmm what happened in 2018 isFacebook made a shift,
fundamentally Um, to favoringthe customer experience, and
what that means is like, if youremember back in the day, you
used to see all of your posts onFacebook in chronological order
(26:44):
, right, everything on Instagramwas like the chronological fee,
and then it was like oh, we'rejust gonna show you the things
you like.
Well, what happens when youshow you the things you like,
they also realize shortlythereafter that like.
Well, they can use that samething for ads.
And so broad targeting thebrain behind is something called
advanced matching.
Broad targeting is basicallysaying don't do any targeting,
(27:09):
um, and If you don't do anytargeting, we'll make sure that
the people who most want to seeyour content see it.
And so if you focus on makingsure that the people who want to
see your content get to see it,then it's really easy to say
well, if we give people whatthey want, does it also drive
sales?
And the answer is yes, mazeltov, and the answer is no.
(27:29):
Well then, figure it out.
And that's infinitely morepowerful than let me try to rent
information from a third party,like using interest group or
something like that.
The way an interest group worksis people come to Facebook With,
like credit card information oruser databases in a million
different ways.
They rent that information forBack in the day they literally
(27:52):
used to tell you how muchthey're renting for it.
It's been hidden now.
But let's say it cost them tencents for every thousand people
and they'll turn around andcharge you five bucks for every
thousand people.
So the cost of advertising goesway up.
I and you're also basicallysaying I'm going to pay extra to
make sure that the majority ofpeople who want to see my
(28:13):
content don't, but people basedoff of some subjective term or
keyword are and they think, well, I'm selling dog stuff.
So I'm going to just targetdogs as an interest group but
say you're a cat guy and you'relike man, cats rule, dogs jewel,
like just hate dog.
You're using the word dogs, soyou're interested and, to be
(28:36):
fair, two thirds of the audiencein an interest group is thereby
mistake and regular.
Every year colleges do casestudies on like how accurate are
these audiences, and at bestthey're like two thirds accurate
.
Sometimes it's half, so it's athird.
So if you think one third of theaudience is there by mistake.
And then let's say half thepeople in that audience are
(28:57):
there because they don't likesomething.
Like if you go to a restaurantand you don't like it, you're
probably going to tell a lot ofpeople.
If you go to a restaurant, it'sall right.
Maybe you tell people, maybenot.
So you'd much rather have kindof like that secret spot that
you enjoy going to, unless it'samazing, like oh my God, you got
to go.
But if you have a badexperience, it's a little
everybody.
Yeah, people do that everyfacet of their life.
(29:20):
So let's just say it'sconservative and half the people
that mentioned something do itbecause they're not happy with
something.
And you see, this especiallyhappened during like political
times, like during elections andlike if you talk about the
person you don't like, you'regoing to see a lot of content
mentioning that person becauseit's engaging to you, like you
(29:40):
want to see it.
You might not like itObjectively, you might not like
it, but subjectively it'skeeping you engaged.
Facebook is going making youfrom like a lean back experience
.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
So what they call lean in whereyou get to lean in, you're like
oh my God this thing right andwhat they're trying to do is
just maximize the time on theplatform and, believe me, I'm
getting to the answer.
I'm just setting it all up.
So Google and Amazon and, to befair, also like email, their
(30:04):
focus is to get you to lessrecent email.
Their focus is to get you to goto Google.
You search something, the firstresults you want, and you're
off of Google as fast aspossible.
Like the Google perfectexperience is somebody's on for
like a microsecond and they'regone and they're happy, and then
they come back and do it overand over and over again.
Facebook, on the other hand,their business model is let me
(30:27):
keep this person on the platformfor as long as possible.
Fin (30:31):
Yeah.
Professor Charley T (30:32):
So their
focus is to give that person the
best user experience so theystay on for as long as possible.
Not that they want to and yes,obviously they want to come back
but they want to keep them onas long as possible.
The way they do that is theyshow you content you want to see
.
The average person swipes theheight of the Eiffel Tower on
their device on a daily basis.
According to some yeah,according to study that Facebook
(30:56):
has been quoting for a long,long time in other platforms.
Fin (30:59):
Crazy.
Professor Charley T (31:03):
I feel
tower right.
So the point is for youradvertising, you could try to
say that I want to pay Facebook,I want to have Facebook by data
from somebody else and thensell it to me at a profit, where
I know that one third of thosepeople are there by mistake and
probably have those people don'tlike, don't like what I have to
say and then I'm going to focuson that last remaining one
(31:24):
third that they've identifiedand force my conversation, force
my ads onto them to make thembuy.
Problem is that's notsustainable.
That makes Ad fatigue happen,like if your ads fatigue, it's
operator error.
Yeah, it also means that yourcosts are going to go up every
year because Facebook is seeingyou force your content on the
(31:49):
people, not earn the attentionof people based on merit, right.
So what happens is Facebooksays, ok, well, look, you want
to play this game.
Fine, we'll make you pay moremoney to reach these people and
you're going to reach fewer ofthem and you're going to
probably reach as fewer peoplemore often and you're going to
really annoy some people.
And, look, you're probablygoing to get some sales but as a
(32:12):
result of you being a lowerintegrity business partner,
we're going to just continue toraise your rates because
basically, your business modelis, as an advertiser, that using
interest groups or audiences,behaviors etc.
Saying I want you to force mycontent on the people,
regardless of their experience.
And Facebook says our businessmodels the best experience.
So if you're business and theway that you advertise is to
(32:35):
directly disrespect yourbusiness partner, odds are it's
not going to work out very well.
Any partnership you have whereyour standard operating
procedure is to disrespectpeople you're partners with not
going to work.
So, bottom line of all of that,the way to be most respectful
and to get the lowest costs andto have the most incremental
(32:57):
lift to all other channels andalso get premium inventory.
Where you show up earlier in thefeed for lower money is to use
dynamic ads so that Facebook'sAI builds ad experiences that
are best for people, instead ofyou guessing what people want to
see and that's what 322 adscomes in.
And use broad targeting, whichis basically age, gender and
(33:20):
location, which are the threeparameters you don't pay extra
for.
There might be countries youdon't want to target, might be
genders or ages, you know,whatever it is, maybe you want
women over the age of 45 in theUnited States?
Boom, awesome, that'sacceptable, totally.
And so then, in that market,it's, can I earn attention?
(33:40):
And that the attention that Iearn doesn't translate to sales
Now becomes a really easyconversation.
Did my ad earn more spend?
Yes, okay, great.
Did it earning more spend alsomake an impact on my bank
account?
That is good, yes or no?
And if you can't tell me theanswer to that question, then
(34:00):
you don't know what you're doingwith your ads, and I would say
99% of people who run ads haveno idea when any one particular
ad is doing to the rest of thebank account.
They're just saying, oh, my row, as is good, that's a
completely fictitious number,like it doesn't mean anything.
And so, like we keep thingssimple, we use broad targeting,
(34:22):
we use dynamic ads, so thedeliveries based on merit, and
then your job is to learn spendyes, awesome.
Do my bank account go up?
Yes, awesome, that's a winner.
To learn spend yes, awesome.
Do my bank account get better?
No, it got worse.
Okay, that's a loser.
Did it not earn spend?
Okay, it's a loser.
Well, now, like a 16 year oldkid should run your entire
(34:43):
Facebook ad account with like 30minutes training, like somebody
, like.
And basically the idea behindall of this is McDonald's has a
thing called hamburgeruniversity, where they basically
teach operators how to makehigh school kids able of capable
of running million dollarrestaurant locations.
That's nothing to do with thecompetency of the kid, it's the
competency of the system, andFacebook is the single smartest
(35:06):
machine learning environment,using artificial intelligence to
ultimately curate humanbehavior.
One way or another it cancondition human decision making
and we've seen that go for goodthings and we've seen that be
used for really bad things.
There are those lot of examplesof that, but ultimately
(35:29):
Facebook's infinitely smarterthan Google or Amazon Because it
has basically 80% of theworld's traffic and it's got
more or less several billionpeople on every word that
they've ever used on all oftheir devices and every
transaction they've ever made inany store in person, online,
(35:49):
because, like also, if you gowith your phone into a store and
buy some shoes on your creditcard, facebook knows you were in
this store at this time, boughtthis thing with this credit
card, you know.
Whatever, and they have thesemodels on every single person.
That is trillions and trillionsof data points.
Fin (36:04):
And so that's why you feel
like it would be better to just
be broad, because Facebookalready knows all of this, so
leave it to Facebook.
Professor Charley T (36:11):
Yeah, so
your job is just like can I earn
attention?
And when I do, doesn't help mybank account.
Fin (36:17):
And so that comes down to
simple.
And so when you're talkingabout earning attention, that's
when it's like that's why it'sso good to have different
iterations of ads to test, andyour focus is on making a really
good ad that's really engaging,it speaks to the customer, like
that's why knowing, I suppose,who you're trying to reach is
really useful, because thatwould help with your messaging,
same as the content and engagingcontent.
(36:38):
And then that's where that 322application comes in in
particular as well, that youactually started yourself as
well.
Yeah, we were talking aboutthis before we started recording
and I was saying I did notrealize that you were the guy
who started 322.
I like remember seeing a fewmonths ago on TikTok, this like
(37:00):
Asian chick was like oh, if youare not using the 322 method,
you've got to get on it now, andI was like, wow, that's a crazy
simple, great way to test usinglike different creatives.
And then I really love itbecause you can take the winners
and scale them and then keepthe other one testing.
And it was you.
Yeah, 100%.
Professor Charley T (37:23):
And I built
that years ago and it's been in
development for a long, longtime.
But I've been teaching that fortwo, three years.
I mean.
I've got viral YouTube videos,my version, a couple hundred
thousand.
We looked at the numbers beforethis, was it 330,000 views or
whatever, and it predates hervideo, but I think about a year
and a half and it's me showingyou how I built an ad on
(37:47):
Facebook that spent $2 millionand I'm just like here's how I
did it, like it's not hard.
This is what I did and everystep of the way I think and I
got it into it less than aminute like easy and that 322
thing.
Fin (38:00):
So do you want to walk that
through?
So it's three creatives, twocopies, two headlines.
What's like the sort of processof it, because that's what
takes like your approach of letFacebook decide, be real broad,
let Facebook knows best.
This is like a really goodactual application of it.
So how does it actually work?
Professor Charley T (38:20):
So the way
it works is dynamic.
Creatives pair all of your adstogether in a way to try to give
the end user the best possibleexperience.
So if you have three creatives,two headlines to copy, you do
the math that's 12 totalvariations.
Now you can make 12 total adsand kind of do it manually.
First off, that's painstakingand you're probably going to
make a mistake.
Lord knows, if I have to make12 ads, I'm going to have a typo
(38:42):
on at least one of them.
It may very well have startedout of self preservation from
getting ridiculed for like typosand sending emails out to a
whole database.
Fin (38:56):
Oh yeah absolutely Like
self preservation right.
Work smarter, not harder.
Yeah, absolutely.
Professor Charley T (39:03):
And then.
So the point of that is that is, when you build 12 ads, that
data is being collated into 12different files.
If you look at it as like afolder on your computer, it's 12
different files.
When you make it a 322 ad,dynamic creative, the Facebook
(39:26):
is just looking at the folderitself.
So it's not letting each.
All the ads work in conjunctionwith each other and they're
complementary in compoundedvalue.
So you have in compoundinginterest in the data set versus
cannibalizing each other, wherethe ad that works is probably
the one that got a couple ofgood comments early or like had
(39:48):
a nice like hook rate orsomething that has nothing to do
with performance.
So yeah, and then the way welook at it is these creatives.
Ultimately, each ad needs toanswer a question.
Really, what we're doing isjust breaking down elementary
school science class.
It's scientific method.
(40:09):
I have a problem.
So I have a video coming out onthe channel as we record this.
It'll come out, I think, in 24hours or 12 hours, but by the
time somebody sees it it'll belive.
But I'm making an ad forHexclad, the Pots and Pans
company, gordon Ramsay'scookware brand.
Yeah, so let's assume theproblem is we're having trouble
(40:32):
scaling because we're havingtrouble filling the funnel.
Okay, so that's our problem.
Our hypothesis is going to bewell, if we use really engaging
content that people really wantto see, we're going to reach a
whole lot of people and get themreally interested.
So that's going to fill thefunnel, okay.
So then the video is.
(40:54):
I go to the organic social and Ifind, hey, there are three
videos that look similar Becausewe're going to try to solve the
problem in the same way.
There are three videos whereGordon's being a, he's goofing
off, he's taking a piss out ofhimself, he's just having a
blast, he's driving a forkliftand hit something, or he's just
goofy, whatever it is.
They're like fun, stupid littlevideos.
(41:15):
They all basically have amillion views, cool.
So let's find what worked andhad a million views.
They're all of the same concept.
This concept is Gordon's kindof being a goof, and they're
highly public.
So they look and feel the same,although the content itself is
a little bit different.
So now our hypothesis is if werun these ads that earned a lot
(41:41):
of reach organically, wherethey're all kind of Gordon being
a goof, we think that we'll geta lot of spend because people
clearly want to see it becauseit works well organically and,
as a result, it will fill thefunnel and let all of the other
ads that kind of do someretargeting or stuff like that.
It'll let them have more peopleto touch.
So we're going to reach morepeople and let more people know
(42:03):
that X-Cloud exists and get theminterested.
Fin (42:06):
Awesome.
Professor Charley T (42:08):
So now the
scientific method applies and
like, okay, well, we have acontrol environment, our best
ads and we're going to run thisagainst that in a CBO campaign.
And they're saying, great, nowthe test goes live when we
launched this does it earn spend?
And if it earns spend, does ourbank account look better?
And the answer is yes, awesome.
(42:29):
We have an ad and what we cando because we have the three
creatives.
If it doesn't work, we can sayif any of the delivery was,
you're going to have one or twothings either one ad is going to
get all the spend or the spendis going to be kind of evenly
spaced amongst all three.
Now, if the spend was evenlyspaced amongst all three, then
(42:50):
you know it's not really thecreative on why it didn't work.
Like, just this is an ideadoesn't work.
Now, if all the spend went toone video and it did poorly,
well, we can remove that videoif we wanted to.
Or we'd like, hey, no, thisvideo isn't it Right, let's try
another one.
Now, it'd be fair.
Probably I would just turn itoff and move on.
But we have the choice.
We can be very binary.
(43:11):
Let's say we have seven or 10of them in there.
It would take forever.
For us it's not well.
All three were even and one gota lot.
It's probably going to be.
One gets 80%, 70%, one getslike 20, something else gets 15
and you have no idea why.
But when it's three it levelsoff or it becomes hyperbolic
really fast.
And the same thing happens atthe creative I mean the copy.
(43:34):
Maybe one headline gets 90% ofthe spend or they're both even.
If they're even, then you know,hey, the headline doesn't
matter, yeah, if the copy's thesame cool, they're the same Then
this copy doesn't matter, whichmeans write two new sets of
copy for the next test, becausethis clearly has no impact on
performance.
It was even.
None of them were better thanthe other ones.
(43:54):
It didn't really move theneedle at all.
Fin (43:56):
No, no, clear winner yeah.
Professor Charley T (43:58):
Yeah.
So we have a binary choice.
Did it get spent?
Yes or no?
If it got spent, did it helpthings out?
Yes or no?
And if it did, if it earnedspend but it wasn't helpful, was
one copy or one creative getall the spend in the world, yes
or no?
Or was it even yes or no?
All the answers are yes and no.
(44:20):
Logic trees and you'll be ableto know that answer really quick
.
So the beauty of it is itallows you to make what used to
be an art form and, to be fair,I'm not saying the creative
director's not important.
Look, people that are reallygood at making ads.
When they use dynamic creatives, they're phenomenally better
than me making an ad.
(44:40):
I'm terrible at making ads.
Fin (44:44):
Good at making them spend,
though.
Oh, I'm good at that Absolutely.
Professor Charley T (44:48):
Um and uh.
So yeah, like that makes itjust so easy.
You know what I mean.
And um, because of that, uh,you know, it just becomes like
there's objectively no reason tonot do it, because ultimately,
all you're gonna do is, if itspends and makes your bank
(45:09):
account better, then everyiteration improves your
situation, and as long as you'recontinually getting better,
then awesome.
And then, if you're just on thepath of continuous improvement,
yeah was your oyster.
Fin (45:24):
So so then, and then you
have this next step as well, of
like, when you find that one,you put that into like a winning
ad set or campaign A, but thenyou introduce new ones to test.
Professor Charley T (45:36):
Yeah,
depending if you need to.
I mean, if your target cost fora sale is 50 bucks and you're
coming in at 42, just spend moremoney.
The reason you were launchingnew test is cause you're not
good enough.
If it's working, why?
Fin (45:50):
fix it.
Professor Charley T (45:52):
I think one
of the biggest problems people
do is they.
They launch creative tests forno good reason.
They try doing a landing pagetest for no good reason, like if
the biggest problem you have isyou have an untapped potential.
Just tap the potential, spendmore money.
You like job done.
Go, come back next week.
Fin (46:08):
And so you, you, you,
you'll, you'll find that winner,
or you'll find, like, when it'sworking, and then you, you will
just straight up the spend day.
That's what I like.
Is that, like, everything isreally simple with what you say?
Like it's quite.
You know, there's a method tothe madness, but it's quite
simple and it means that anyonelike listening to this, could go
ahead and be like sweet, like Iknow I've got a good product
(46:29):
and I've got a good business, orI want to validate this.
I'm going to run some ads.
Let me just test broad.
Let me just chuck in some adsets.
Let me use this three to twothing, like, let me run it, let
me see what happens.
If it works, spend more.
If it doesn't, try new stuff,yeah, and go from there Like
it's.
Professor Charley T (46:46):
It's
literally as simple as that,
like when you think about ityeah, and as long as yeah, and
as long as you're getting better, awesome.
And if you're so good thatyou're making too much profit on
each sale.
Spend more money.
And maybe, maybe your objectiveis like I don't have infinite
money, I can't spend more.
Okay, cool, keep, keep at itand just keep making more profit
.
Fin (47:06):
Like awesome.
One of the other things thatyou say that I really like, bro,
is that you it was like thatline about amplifying the
business and like if you'rerelying on ads to make money,
then you've already lost, orsomething around that, and it
was I really liked that thoughtbecause it was like one thing
that I see a lot with businessesand like I'm a young pup, I'm
(47:31):
yet to go on this journey where,in 10 minutes, I can rip off
how I was here, there,everywhere, with all these crazy
like things, but I still havelike, even in the few years of
stuff that I have, I see so manybusinesses try to do things or
try like market or try get outthere when their product is just
(47:53):
trash or like they don't have agood business model or they
don't have logistics down packedor they don't have.
You know, they don't even knowwhat their product does or who
it does it for, and so I reallylike how you have that sort of
thing as well.
Did that come from trying topush bad products for businesses
(48:13):
throughout that sort of 10years of doing Facebook ads?
Professor Charley T (48:16):
I think
I've been brought aboard a
thousand sinking ships.
It's like the Titanic alreadyhit the iceberg, bro.
Like I don't know what you'reexpecting me to do and I went in
there.
I went in there with like anego and just like I can fix it
and be fair sometimes, yeah, Istaved off death for a good too
long and but yeah, it was reallylike, if you think about it is
(48:39):
Facebook is a business modelamplification device.
Spend your profits on ads tomake how you make money, to make
more of it.
This is how I make money.
All right, I'm gonna runFacebook to do more of this.
Awesome.
If you're not making money,don't run Facebook ads.
Fin (48:59):
How much do you think you
should be spending if you're
like, for example, someone thisthing is making, you know 10
grand profit a month right now,or something like that.
How much percentage of yourprofits or of your revenue do
you think like, as a goodguideline for people, to spend
on ads?
Professor Charley T (49:15):
I mean
honestly, like I think that's
one of the hardest and questionsto answer, because it really
comes down to your businessneeds.
I mean, is it you and it's allthing, and like that 11K pays
for your mortgage and like thetwo employees you have, and puts
food on the table for yourfamily?
If so, then like maybe don'tspend a penny of it.
If that 11K is, aftereverything, you're just like
(49:39):
this, just sitting in the bank,then maybe spend all of it.
You know, like I mean, maybeall of it's a bit obtuse, maybe
don't do that, but like thepoint of it is, I think the
right answer is different foreverybody.
What I like to do is say, whenyou're looking to get started,
build a runway, I have this muchmoney to spend over this much
time.
Say it's 10k over the nextthree months, my job is to make
(50:05):
sure that I don't run out ofmoney.
And then eventually, that pointin time where you run out of
money gets pushed further back,because now you're making a
little bit, you may.
You know, if you spend ahundred bucks a day and on
Monday you make 50 bucks and youmake 50 bucks for a couple days
, well, that day you run out ofmoney gets pushed back two,
three days.
So your job is just never runout of money.
(50:28):
And if you can figure that out,mazel tov, and if you don't
figure that out, well, you raninto it with profits that you
could afford, based on how yourbusiness was working.
And you know, know how, no foul, it didn't work out for you and
it maybe you know.
I mean, it's an investment.
Everybody's got to take risks.
I've dumped money into business, into my business where it
didn't work out like you knowyou don't have to win.
(50:51):
And if you're already makingmoney and Facebook ads aren't
the way to do it, do morewhatever's making you money.
And that's why I always saylike it's a business model
amplification, so if yourbusiness model sucks, you're
just gonna lose money faster.
Fin (51:07):
Yeah, I love it, I do have.
I have one.
One more question because I'mconscious of of the time.
I have one.
Professor Charley T (51:16):
I got a
wife texting me we're supposed
to go get some baby clothes.
Fin (51:18):
Apparently I'm like 20
minutes late, so I'll hurt you
with one, one last question, andthat was that someone sent in
and we sort of talked about itbefore we jumped on recording.
But, in terms of you, how areyou making money right now?
Like, what does that pie chartlook like and what are those
bits that that are part of thatpie chart like is it 30%, of
(51:41):
course?
Is it set?
Like, what does that sort oflook like for you?
And like, yeah, like, just tellus about that.
That was someone that wanted toknow.
Professor Charley T (51:49):
Yeah, so a
lot of what I do right now is
sort of under the umbrella ofdisruptor enterprises and
there's really three parts tothat.
One is disruptor school, whichis like 500 bucks a month.
Sort of that old patreon thatwe talked about is now grown
into a slack channel with yearsand years of education and
ebooks and lectures and guestspeakers and a whole bunch of
(52:11):
other stuff.
And I still go online.
Just, you know, my time when Iwas, you know, sidelining at a
day job versus me running abusiness, might make times a bit
more valuable.
But now, you know, it's a twopre-recorded classes a week and
then a live session every Friday, and then on Tuesdays and
Thursdays we do the replays ofall the live sessions because
there might be that live sessionis I just take questions, so
(52:33):
that question might be a 10minute answer, sometimes it's
like 40 and then the next weekthat answer gets posted up and
we follow back like how's thiswork for you, get you feedback,
get you positive support, and ifyou weren't there and you
missed it, hey, get to see it,you know and that way, there's
this just great community andevery month people can come in,
they can leave when they want to, and the way I see it is just
like if I can't help you make 20more bucks a day, then clearly
(52:55):
I'm not good at my job.
And as a business modelperspective, my LTV on my
customer goes up every monthbecause majority of people don't
leave.
Yeah, it's great and it's.
You know, if I have to do twoclasses a week because I have,
you know, too many people,awesome, I'll do it.
And then the other side of thebusiness is Facebook ads MBA
(53:18):
program, which is that thing wastalking about training the
agencies and then just turningthat into something to help
people, and it's very much asimilar model.
It's a community weekly classwhere I do a lecture for half an
hour and then take questions,and then all those lectures and
all those questions areavailable in an archive.
It's searchable by timestampand all of that good stuff and
there's like 10 courses insideof it and guest speakers and
(53:39):
more education.
And the difference is disruptorschool is an entry level.
It's above entry level.
I'd say entry level for me inthat I've got a business that
works.
I need to round out myeducation and so there's as much
conversation there aboutbusiness model development or
running things on Amazon orGoogle, all of the other things
it's great like if you're a CMO.
(53:59):
It can be kind of your likesecret back pocket, little like
I need some place to go and askquestions yeah, awesome, right,
that's what it's perfect for.
Mba program is like do I want tobe better than 99% of people
the world at this thing that canfundamentally change somebody's
life?
And you know like, if you'reworking at it, either ad
agencies that might pay theirbuyers 75k a year, they might be
(54:23):
charging their clients 20, 30,50k a month.
If you've got five or sixclients as a media buyer, you're
basically being paid a thousandbucks a client and your boss is
getting paid 20 to 30,000.
You could go through the MBAprogram and basically, like I
let me get two, three clients,I'm gonna charge them all two,
(54:45):
three, four thousand bucks apiece.
I'm gonna undercut my boss,basically still do all of the
work anyway and I'll make100,000 a year and I'll work
like part-time, like why not?
It's absolutely, it's for.
Or if you're a brand that hasan, it's just a contrived agency
taking advantage of you.
Like why don't you make yourreceptionist the best media
buyer in your company?
Let's do it it's funny with.
(55:05):
Jason from hexclad and this islike a little spicy salt, throw
it out there.
Just there's this guy, zach,who has an agency and everybody
knows his agency because, yeah,hexclad to make it happen.
Well, I talked to directorhexclad and he's like we haven't
seen that guy in two years.
I don't know what he's doing.
We put all of our internalteams through this other
agencies thing and I was like,cool, all right, well, that's
(55:26):
good to know.
And I met with Jason, the CEO,and he came up to me at an event
where I was sitting with NickSharma and he's like, hey, man,
big fan of yours, blah, blah,blah.
I'm like I have big fan ofyours.
And he's like, hey, my son justgot a job working for Nick, was
gonna learn how to be a mediabear.
I'm gonna put him through yourschool, awesome.
And I turned to Nick's like,hey, nick, this kid's gonna be
the best guy you've gotten threemonths.
And like, yeah, like this kidfresh out of high school is
(55:49):
gonna be the number one mediabuyer and in that, in that
environment, done easy.
And so there's that and there'san entry level and there's a
higher level, enterprise levelof that.
Then the last thing is disruptoragency, which is a brand
accelerator program, orbasically what we do is we, if
(56:10):
we find that your business iscan, is work, can work, we'll
come in and work with you on thebusiness model and also work on
like the ad side of things.
We'll clean up the ad account.
You know, if you've beenworking with like a common
thread or a you know, you knowany one of these I shouldn't get
into too many, but like if youguys run by an Ashton or a
(56:32):
Jordan or a Taylor or any ofthese other clowns and like
you've just been sick and tiredof being taken advantage of,
come in, we'll clean it all up.
We'll make it really easy foryou by basically implementing
all the things that we would doin the MBA program and while
that's happening, we get theworkload way down.
We'll probably try to do thattwo extra business, maybe 90
days, 100 days while doing it,making it super simple so we can
(56:55):
hand it off back to you wherewe train you along the way, work
with you on the business model,and then my focus is let me do
that as many times I can to helpas many people be successful
and the end of that contractbasically looks like.
Let's get to the point whereyou don't need us in the
day-to-day operation and insteadwe can work you on business
model development.
Maybe we'll get a little pieceof what's going on a little
profit sharing or a littleperformance incentive or an
(57:17):
equity deal or whatever thatlooks like, and every business
is different.
But the point is, can we makethis work for you?
And my confidence level me ableto work for you is almost a
hundred percent if we're gonnatake you on, and what I look for
is businesses that are good andwhat's wrong is their business.
Their Facebook ad accountdoesn't make sense and the way
(57:39):
they're trying to spend moneydoesn't work.
First scaling their businessand that's that's fishing a
barrel man.
I can, I can, I can.
Two ex a business doing thatevery day and all I do is I take
my best MBA students, I givethem a gig and then we work on.
They get real world trainingand I work and they become my
execution alarm and I work withthem directly.
So I train them more and we justhelp business owners see the
(58:03):
success that they deserve andtry to make ourselves obsolete,
and we get a little bit on theback end of it and they tell ten
of their friends about it and acouple of them got something
going on.
And it's this self-perpetuatingflywheel of like just creating
joy and success and opportunityso people can feed their
families and create jobs fortheir community and not fall
victim to this like incrediblypredatory, low integrity, like
(58:26):
alpha bro, small dick, energyenvironment.
That's the ad agency world.
And man I should be dead andevery day I get to spend my time
making people's lives betterand man I'm I'm genuinely this
just like normal happy go, luckydude all the time, because my
days just spent the peoplesaying thank you all the time.
(58:46):
And I get to solve puzzles andmake money like it's the
greatest day, I got the best gigin the world you know oh,
that's basically it's.
Fin (58:55):
It's.
It's so cool.
I think like hearing that wholesort of story of what you've
been through to get to where youare, like how you've come up
you've been a part of some crazythings with Facebook hearing,
yeah, you know like how you'vecome up with these, like tools
and tricks and systems along theway, and then what I what I
like is that when you watch yourvideos, you're incredibly
(59:15):
talented at keeping peoplehooked in and you have really
good energy and you have reallygood intent.
But then what I also like isyou know, like if anyone listens
to this and goes and watchesthe YouTube, like you get to the
end of the YouTube and likeeven just like there, you like
go to this other side, which isjust so sincere and so like
genuinely grateful for what youdo because you actually really
(59:37):
like it.
So it's yeah, it's superinspiring and I wish I had
another 10 hours with you to askall the questions.
Professor Charley T (59:44):
But I know
you want to let me back any time
you want, man, but I gotta.
I gotta go take care of thewife and baby things yeah, you
go take care of the wife andbaby thing.
Fin (59:51):
Man, I really appreciate
your time and I'm so happy that
you came on.
Do you want to just quicklyplug yourself so that everyone
can find sure?
Professor Charley T (59:58):
yeah, find
me on the internet.
Ct the disruptor, disruptorschool.
If you type in disruptor schoolonto your internet or later and
it doesn't pop up, then youshouldn't listen to anything I
have to say.
Fin (01:00:11):
I love it.
Yeah, I love it so much.
All right, all right, man.
Professor Charley T (01:00:13):
I'll see
you later, man much for your
time.
Fin (01:00:15):
I appreciate that awesome.