August 15, 2023 • 30 mins
Ever grappled with simplifying complex research to engage a non-expert audience? Witness how, Nancy Hardcastle, a remarkable expert in crafting compelling presentations, lends her unique strategies to social impact leaders. Our conversation explores the hurdles faced by researchers in creating accessible presentations and how Nancy's expertise helps distil these complexities. Drawing from her experiences at human trafficking conferences, she underlines the significance of clarity and comprehension in captivating diverse audiences.
On a journey to create powerful stories? Nancy's two-hour workshop provides a blueprint. Whether you're an advocate or a researcher, her meticulously designed packages can transform the way you communicate your work. She breaks down her offerings, and transparently discusses pricing, which opens a world of transformation for those striving to influence change. If you're in the field of human trafficking or any area that requires translating intricate information for varied audiences, this episode is an essential listen. Nancy's insights could revolutionize your presentations, making them unforgettable.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You know the why human trafficking work is needed
To fight for the freedom ofmodern day slaves.
But love, passion, commitmentisn't all you need to be an
effective and successfulanti-trafficking advocate.
Learn the how.
I'm Dr Celia Williamson,Director of the Human
Trafficking and Social JusticeInstitute at the University of
(00:23):
Toledo.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation podcast, where I'll
provide you with the latest andbest methods, policy and
practice, discussed byexperienced experts in the field
, so that you can cut throughthe noise, save time and be
about the work of saving lives.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation.
I'm Dr Celia Williamson.
(00:44):
This is episode 186.
Today I have with me NancyHardcastle, and she's been on
the podcast before.
So what's wonderful about Nancyis she actually is sort of like
the wind beneath your wings.
She helps you to develop powerpoints and to present and to get
(01:06):
your message across, get yourexpertise across in a way that's
clear and concise andcompelling.
So she really equips socialimpact leaders to deliver
stunning presentations thatreally compel their audience to
take action.
So welcome back, Nancy.
(01:29):
So happy to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Hey, celia, thank you , I'm happy to be back.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, and you are so amazing because one of the
things that you did for me isyou helped me get my message
across in a PowerPoint and whatI wanted to say and what was too
much information.
And you know, it's like we getso engrossed in what we're doing
(01:54):
, we know so much about whatwe're doing, we forget how to
make it simple, make itcompelling, make it concise, and
so that's what you do.
So can you talk to us a littlebit about the services that you
offer and who you're targeting,and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Sure, and I just want to say the challenge that you
just described is very common.
Especially if you're an expert,if you've been doing any type
of work for a long time, as yousaid, you're so steeped in that
information that it's hard foryou to take a step back and
remember what it's like to notknow anything or to really be a
(02:37):
novice in the field.
You forget that those words areactually jargon that are used
commonly in your circles, butother people don't know them.
So that is one of the thingsthat I do is help people to step
back and say now, wait a minute, let's start from the beginning
.
Let's imagine that youraudience doesn't know anything.
Or let's imagine that youraudience knows some things, but
(02:58):
they still need you to take themstep by step and help them
understand what it is that youknow so well.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
And not even do it in a dry way, like I remember when
you helped me, you were like,well, look, why don't you tell a
story?
Is there a person, is there aculmination of the person that
you're trying to help?
That you could go along andoutline your steps, but doing it
(03:29):
in a way that people can keepup with you because they're
following a character, orsomething like that.
I mean, that was one of thetechniques that you helped me
with and I just I thought whatyou helped me with was brilliant
, and let me just say that Idon't call on people very often
(03:51):
to help me.
I don't know if it's, I don'tknow what it, but I don't want
to waste my time with peopletrying to tell me something I
already know.
So I'm a little bit skeptical,but I can say, when you helped
me, you really it was reallyeye-opening for me, and so I'm
(04:12):
just that's why I'm excited tohave you on.
So today we're just going tofocus a little bit on
researchers, and you know why isit important for you to help
researchers get their pointacross.
I mean, they've done the study,they know what they're talking
about.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Right, and they are certainly the expert.
So it's an interesting case, Ithink, with them.
I started out focusing in thefield of human trafficking when
I first became a coach and so Istarted going to those
trafficking conferences and thiswas my first exposure to since
I was in college, which was wayback.
(04:53):
This was my most recentexposure to researchers and how
they presented and of course, Ihad been reading research, but
it's a whole different animal tosee these researchers
presenting and this was a realeye-opener for me because one I
was very curious.
I was new to the field and Iwanted to learn as much as I
(05:14):
could and I realized that theyweren't really making it easy
for me and I would sit therethinking, ok, I'm not dumb and
this isn't rocket science, whyam I having such a hard time
understanding what they'retelling me?
And after it happened again andagain and again, I realized oh,
it's the way that they'representing.
(05:35):
They really don't know how tomake it easy for me to quickly
understand what they're saying,or even sitting and listening,
and listening and listening.
So even not necessarily beingquickly, but just understand it
all.
And in their defense, mostresearchers have never been
shown how to present to theaverage audience.
They're used to probablypresenting to their peers.
(05:57):
They've seen their professorspresent and this generally means
they take that research articleand they start with the let
review and they just work theirway through the sections of the
article and end with whateverthe recommendations for further
research are.
So this works OK if you'representing to your peers.
(06:18):
I still don't think it's agreat way to do it, but it's
acceptable within, for example,within your university
department.
But when you're talking to,let's just say, a layperson or
people who have expertise inother fields.
So the classic example is ahuman trafficking conference,
because we've got lawenforcement professionals, legal
professionals, healthcareprofessionals, social work
(06:39):
professionals, that goes on andon, and then lay people, those
wonderful lay people who arejust there because they want to
learn and do something good,right, they want to volunteer,
they want to support the cause,but those people are not
necessarily experts in whateverthe researcher is presenting,
whatever they're the expert in,and so they need to learn what I
(07:01):
say.
I use this word translate.
They need to learn how totranslate everything, their
findings, the way.
How do you say methodologywithout saying methodology?
How do you stay a statisticalanalysis without saying that
Because those words aren't goingto make any sense to the
average person.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I want to break into the podcast to invite you to
celebrate our 20th anniversarywith us.
Over the past two decades, theInternational Human Trafficking
and Social Justice Conferencehas welcomed thousands of
attendees from all 50 states andfrom 50 countries.
We are the largest and oldestacademic conference on human
(07:39):
trafficking in the world.
Our 20th annual conference willbe hosted virtually this year,
on September 20th through the22nd.
You'll have the opportunity tolearn from and collaborate with
thousands of advocates,researchers, providers and
survivors from across the globe.
This will be our largestconference to date, with over
(08:02):
115 breakout sessions featuring200 expert presenters speaking
about various topics related tohuman trafficking and social
justice issues.
You won't want to miss thisspecial 20th anniversary
conference.
Make sure you are part of theconversation and don't miss out.
Find out more and registertoday on our website
(08:23):
traffickingconferencecom.
Now on with the podcast.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Even a lawyer who studied that, maybe back when he
was in the university, isn'tnecessarily going to remember or
connect with those terms.
So I'm kind of a good example,because I had my master's degree
and I even had to write some ofthose studies, but it's not my
language.
So recently I was working witha client exactly on this.
I'm presenting her research andI said you want to think of it
(08:51):
this way, that one of yourlanguages let's say you're
bilingual, you speak English andyou speak research, and all
your colleagues speak researchtoo, and that's fine.
But when you go in front of theaverage audience, they don't
speak research, and so if you'reup there speaking research and
using all these terms, they'renot going to understand what
(09:11):
you're saying.
So in my case, you know I knewthose words, I knew methodology
and I knew oh yeah, kaisa, butit didn't have a lot of meaning
for me.
It's more like my second orthird language, and so I had to
really struggle to say OK, whatdoes all of this mean?
And then there was kind of thecommon issue of their
overloading the slides.
They're not timing, so thenthey're cramming everything in.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And let me say I wholeheartedly agree.
I mean, even as a doctoralstudent, I would go to these
research conferences, you know,and I would listen and I would
look at the poster presentationsand I would.
I would be horribly intimidatedand I would, oh my God, you
know, they know so much, theyare so smart, and and I would
(09:55):
walk away not understanding whatthey were trying to convey to
me.
But I did understand that theywere super smart.
Now, that wasn't their point,but that's what I walked away
with.
And then, years later, I wouldgo to these poster presentations
or these live presentations andI would walk away sad.
(10:16):
I would say, wow, you've doneall of this work and you
couldn't get your informationacross.
That's sad.
And so how do you write Like?
A great example is somebody whosays I did a longitudinal
dichotomous study, like you dida what?
(10:36):
Oh?
You did a study for a long time, right, and you asked, yes, no
questions.
Why not just say that to aperson so that they can speak
that you can speak the samelanguage, yes, so yeah, I
totally.
And the fact that people jam alot of information on their
slides and then I'm stillthinking about slide one,
(11:00):
because one I have to translatewhat you just said in slide one.
That's going to take me aminute, and now you're on slide
four, so I don't even know whatyou're talking about at this
point.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So yeah, so I relate to that for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
And I want to go back to what you said about how you
eventually came to theconclusion of wow, that's sad
that you've done all this work,and I felt exactly that way, but
perhaps multiplied.
Well, it may have been in yourcase too, because you studied
social work, where people were,for example, they were
interviewing survivors of humantrafficking, and maybe they did
(11:37):
200 interviews Like.
I remember very, very clearlythis one particular study where
they had interviewed hundredsand hundreds of survivors and
they were.
So there was the toll on thoseresearchers right Of hearing
those difficult stories.
There was the toll on thesurvivors of telling those
stories but hoping that it would, it was going to make a
difference.
So there was not just mentalenergy and time, but there was
(12:01):
emotional energy and time andthen and then hardly anybody
could understand what they weresaying and I thought that is
such a shame.
This should not be happening.
People are putting in so muchwork and then all those
survivors in good faith areparticipating because they're
hoping that it's going to changesomebody's life, it's going to
make a difference.
Maybe somebody else doesn'thave to go through this horrible
thing and and that's all good.
(12:24):
Right, the that study is a goodthing and they got valuable
information from it, but thenthey couldn't present it and,
like you said it's.
It just seems really sad and Ithought I got I've got to do
something to try and change this, because this is my field, I
can help these people.
I know I can help them.
I'm going to try.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, oh, that that is.
I think that is what we need asresearchers, and so so your
services.
I mean, when somebody investsin your services, that's what it
is.
It's an investment, right,because they need, they have all
the skills to do the work, butnow they've lost themselves in
(13:09):
terms of how do I convey myinformation very clearly, very
strategically, because I have alot of information, but what is
it that you need to know andwhat is it that maybe you don't
need to know until a later dateor something?
But I only have one hour oronly have 30 minutes what?
How do I get this informationacross?
(13:29):
So, when people connect withyou, they are making an
investment in getting theirinformation across.
What we do as researchers.
Our last leg is dissemination.
How do we disseminate veryclearly?
So can you talk about the waysthat you help and you have
(13:52):
different programs that peoplecan get involved in?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Sure, and I want to just say one thing before I say
that, and that is because yousaid it's the last leg, and I
think what happens is thatresearchers are so tired by that
point and they're just like, ohmy gosh, I'm so glad I got this
done.
I remember I felt like that whenmy thesis was finally done and
and you think it's done and itfeels done, but it's a little
(14:17):
bit like making this amazingcake and like a wedding cake and
it's delicious and the feelingis awesome, but you don't frost
it.
It's like no, the cake is done,and so what people see is not a
good representation of the workthat you've done, because you
didn't take that final step, andso I understand that you just
want to be done already.
(14:38):
But if you do make thisinvestment, it's so.
It's so worth it because you'reinvesting not only in ensuring
that people are going tounderstand the findings of this
particular research that you did, but you're investing in
yourself so that in the future,whatever you do in the future
now, you're going to know how todo it.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, and my sort of investment in this whole
conversation is and the wholereason we have the podcast is to
increase the knowledge and theskills of people who want to be
advocates, who want to do thebest job that they can.
So it's so important that wetranslate the effective work,
(15:20):
the best practice work, in a waythat's clearly understandable.
If you are a researcher, youdon't need to go in and use
confusing language so thatpeople are impressed.
Like, if you want people to beimpressed, go somewhere else, go
to your family and use a bunchof $5 words or whatever.
(15:40):
But what we're doing here isyou are really hopefully trying
to get information across thepeople so that they can use it,
so that they can have thatknowledge, so they move forward
and do the best job that theycan do.
So people that are interestedin this, they can connect with
(16:02):
you in various ways.
Like, you have differentoptions for them, right?
So what are those options?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Right.
So the first one is I offer atwo-hour workshop, and so this
is a group workshop.
It would be for eight peoplemax, because I want to make sure
that everybody has anopportunity to talk to me to get
their questions answered.
The first part is I teach themthis process and, of all right,
(16:31):
you have your research done.
What do you do now in order togo from I have my article to all
right, I have a presentationthat's really going to land well
with my audience.
So it's a five-step process.
I teach in the process and thenwe have time in between and
also at the end, or in betweensteps and also at the end, for
them to ask questions and sayokay, for example, I have this
(16:53):
particular point, but I don'tknow how to translate it, I
don't know how to get it across.
Or I want to tell the story,but I don't know if I can, or I
don't know what story to tellhere.
So that's the workshop, andthat is 135 US dollars.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
And then I think to me, that is I would so invest in
that.
That would be a no-brainer forme, just because it takes me a
few hours to figure out how Iwant to say something and
sometimes I don't have thefeedback from somebody.
So I think that is that'sawesome.
(17:29):
And then being, you know, inthe space with other people and
look as they're talking abouttheir project, I mean I think
that's very cool, I think it'svery reasonable, and what else
do you have?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So then I have a three-session package and this
is kind of the quick and dirtyapproach.
So I also teach you thatprocess and I get you, I let you
have a, or I give you arecording of the workshop,
because I have a separaterecording where there's it's
just me talking and it doesn'thave the Q&A.
(18:05):
So it's kind of like ade-identified workshop so that
you, you learn the basics ofwhat I taught in there and then
I apply your specific researchto the process.
So I blend the two.
How can you you with yourparticular research go through
these five steps?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I like that.
Now do I go to the session witheight people and then the three
session course with you, or isthis just a three session
private course with you and me?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
So you have a couple options.
This was something I didrecently.
I had that event and there wasa doctor from a university and
some of her team members and shecame to that and then she said
you know what I want?
More help.
And so then I did the threesession package with her and
helped her specifically applyher research.
(19:05):
So in this one I'll make sampleslides for you and I'll give
you ideas of you could tell thisstory or you could explain this
this way.
So I am more involved in yourspecific research as opposed to
in the workshop.
It's more general.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, that's awesome.
And then for people who want alittle bit more, do you have?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
something for them.
I do.
I have a higher touchsuccession package and this.
I take you through that sameprocess, but I'm also adding on
delivery, because those othertwo there wasn't really a chance
to talk about delivery.
So, for people who don't have alot of experience or who are
particularly anxious, I talkabout delivery and then I give
(19:47):
you some chances to practice andsome chances to record and I
give you feedback on thoserecordings and also I'm giving
you more examples of your slides, more so it's just like more of
the same.
If you feel like man, I reallyI really need more, I'm really
lost or I just would like thathelp.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, because some people, okay, they got the
slides, they're looking gorgeous, but then their delivery, maybe
they ramble on, maybe theydon't have good inflection.
Sure, you know that kind ofdelivery.
Yeah, I could see peoplegetting nervous.
I've seen people who presentedor even talked to the news and
(20:32):
then got finished with it andthen turned to me and say I hope
that was good.
I don't even remember what Isaid.
I was so nervous, sure, sure,yeah.
So a number of people have thatissue.
So if people so, the workshopis 135.
And then what's the threesession and six session?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Right, the three session is 600 and the six
session I'm wanting to say it's1250.
I'm just like changing what,I'm changing my notes on the fly
, so we'll say 1250 for now, butI do add that we have I have a
sliding scale if you're workingin the field of human
trafficking.
So, although that's not myniche anymore, I'll say that I
(21:14):
have a soft spot for those ofyou working in that field.
I know it's really tough and Ijust want to offer that to you
if you're interested in workingwith me.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, I think that's very generous and, as of August,
at least August 2023, those arethe prices today.
So I wouldn't I would probablyjump on it because that's not
probably not going to stay thatlow of a price forever.
But I think an investment likethat is something.
It's a skill.
It's not like they have to runback every time.
(21:47):
Okay, now I have this one.
Okay, now I have to do this.
Right.
It's a skill that they learn,that they take forward and then
use it, you know.
So I mean, I would think that'sa great investment.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Thank you, and that's really the idea of this process
, is that now you know theprocess and so you can apply it
to your next article.
And, of course, if you want, ifyou have questions or whatever,
I'm open to that.
Or if you wanted to say, nancy,can you just listen to what I
haven't given me feedback, youknow, can you give me an hour?
Sure, I'll figure out something.
(22:22):
Because really the end goal forme is just to support speakers
and to support people who aredoing good work.
So I never say no, it's not thepackage, I don't want to work
with you.
You know, try to.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So you'll come up with some package where it can
be effective and with this areyou open not only to researchers
, but to people who run programs, people who maybe I don't know
researchers, those types ofthings.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Sure.
So pretty much open to any typeof speaking that you're doing.
It doesn't matter if you're.
If you're heading up anorganization and you need to go
talk to your board or you needto go talk to the community
about what you're doing.
If you're so, I can help youwith that.
If you're a survivor and youwant to tell your story, I can
(23:14):
also help you with that.
If you're just doing a keynotefor a special event, definitely.
I think keynotes are really fun.
They don't have quite the samerequirements as something like
presenting research, sodefinitely can support people
doing that.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Awesome, and if people are interested, how do
they get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So you can go to my website, it's standupbegreatcom.
Or you can email me at NancyHardcastle at gmailcom.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I love that Standup be great.
You notice it's not standup beaverage.
I love that People can come inand learn.
Even the most nervous person cancome and learn to be a great
speaker, and I think the pricesare very reasonable for what you
(24:06):
get.
I mean, and people say you knowif you pay for something, that
means you will pay attention.
So I think it's important thatyou know the service you're
providing.
That was a quality service andI think the price for what you
get is very reasonable.
So are there any maybe a tipyou can give us before we end
(24:33):
here, about people who presentor people who write?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Sure, Actually, I have a few tips.
I'm so glad you asked.
So one of the things I suggestas part of this process is that,
as a researcher I'm going backto that focus is that you curate
your findings.
And what I mean by curate isyou look at who your audience is
and then you decide what you'regoing to focus on, because they
might not be interested inthose statistical analysis, they
(25:00):
might not be interested in therecommendations, but probably,
if they're a broader audience,they're going to be really
interested in what you found andwhat you think they should do
with what you found.
So take some time, investigateyour audience and then decide
what you should focus on.
A second recommendation iscreate a separate document.
(25:20):
The best thing would be a PDFwhere you're going to put your
sources if you have anyresources, A lot of those
details that I often say takethese out of the slide deck,
it's too much information.
But speakers often tell me but Iwant my audience to have this.
A lot of times they ask me forthe PowerPoint because they want
these details.
So I say, fine, but put that ina separate doc, make it a PDF.
(25:43):
Now you can make all thoselinks clickable in the PDF,
because when you're displayingall that information it's often
too small or they can't doanything with the link on a
screen anyway.
But you get to have all thelinks that you want.
Just put it in a separate docand then you can either house it
on your or host it on yourwebsite.
(26:03):
Or if you don't have a website,you can say, hey, email me,
I'll send you the PDF.
Happy to send you the PDF.
Oh, that's a good one.
So right, because I know noteverybody has a place to host it
, but you can easily just haveyour PDF and if people email you
you send it off to them.
And I know that's an extra stepbut it's going to make your
presentation so much betterbecause you're not going to have
those overloaded slides.
(26:24):
And also, I want to mentionthat on Celia's network,
Emancipation Nation Network, youcan watch a free class that I
did called Public SpeakingJumpstart for surefire ways to
improve your presentation.
So you can go to EmancipationNation Network, you can maybe
(26:47):
you can tell them, Celia, how tofind the courses and then watch
that.
And so in that I'll give yougeneral tips.
So, for example, if you're notdoing research or you want
general tips on your slide orgeneral tips on how to practice,
you can watch.
That that's for free.
And if you still want more, youcan go to my website, which is,
(27:07):
once again, standupbegreatcom,and I have a free call to action
guide.
So the call to action isanother thing that I really
encourage speakers to do of alltypes, and they often forget or
they often don't know how tocreate a call to action.
So the guide shows you, step bystep, exactly how to do it.
You come out with your call toaction, there it is, and then
(27:29):
also you'll be.
If you choose to say subscribe,you get to be on my mailing
list.
I do send out a lot of things,but I do send out tips for you
and if I'm going to have anevent or something you might be
interested in as a speaker.
So there you have it.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Wow, that's a power pack that's very generous.
I mean.
I think that's a lot of.
Those are a lot of qualityitems and tips.
And yes, you go to EmancipationNation Network.
You just simply Google thosethree words.
You can become a member forfree.
Once you go in there, justclick on the start here, you
(28:02):
know link that's veryprominently displayed and then
you will see phases and you knowthe free content is in phase
one and phase two and you'llfind Nancy Hardcastle's
information there.
So it's always a pleasuretalking to you, nancy, and
(28:24):
you've been so helpful.
Like I said to me, you've beenhelpful to people that come to
our conference and of course wehave a commercial.
You know we had a commercial inthere about our conference
during this podcast, but you'vebeen helpful to people that
present at the conference and sojust always a pleasure talking
to you.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Thanks so much, celia .
I appreciate all your kindwords and I'm so happy that you
found so much value working withme.
It makes me happy, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
That was Nancy Hardcastle of Stand Up, be Great
.
Look, if you're doing apresentation and you've done all
of this work, or perhaps youhave lived experience and you
survived through that experienceto thrive, but can't get your
point across clearly, this isnot a given, this is a skill.
(29:12):
And so the final leg to letpeople know what they need to
know, to share your expertise,and do that in the clearest way,
the most concise way possible,the most impactful way.
And so, just like me, if youneed the service, reach out,
(29:35):
become clear on what you need tosay so that your audience
receives exactly what youintended for them to receive.
Until next time, the fightcontinues, let's not just do
something, let's do the bestthing.
If you liked this episode ofEmancipation Nation, please
(29:56):
subscribe and I'll send you theweekly podcast.
Until then, the fight continues.
You know the why human trafficking work is needed
To fight for the freedom ofmodern day slaves.
But love, passion, commitmentisn't all you need to be an
effective and successfulanti-trafficking advocate.
Learn the how.
I'm Dr Celia Williamson,Director of the Human
Trafficking and Social JusticeInstitute at the University of
(00:23):
Toledo.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation podcast, where I'll
provide you with the latest andbest methods, policy and
practice, discussed byexperienced experts in the field
, so that you can cut throughthe noise, save time and be
about the work of saving lives.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation.
I'm Dr Celia Williamson.
(00:44):
This is episode 186.
Today I have with me NancyHardcastle, and she's been on
the podcast before.
So what's wonderful about Nancyis she actually is sort of like
the wind beneath your wings.
She helps you to develop powerpoints and to present and to get
(01:06):
your message across, get yourexpertise across in a way that's
clear and concise andcompelling.
So she really equips socialimpact leaders to deliver
stunning presentations thatreally compel their audience to
take action.
So welcome back, Nancy.
(01:29):
So happy to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Hey, celia, thank you , I'm happy to be back.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, and you are so amazing because one of the
things that you did for me isyou helped me get my message
across in a PowerPoint and whatI wanted to say and what was too
much information.
And you know, it's like we getso engrossed in what we're doing
(01:54):
, we know so much about whatwe're doing, we forget how to
make it simple, make itcompelling, make it concise, and
so that's what you do.
So can you talk to us a littlebit about the services that you
offer and who you're targeting,and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Sure, and I just want to say the challenge that you
just described is very common.
Especially if you're an expert,if you've been doing any type
of work for a long time, as yousaid, you're so steeped in that
information that it's hard foryou to take a step back and
remember what it's like to notknow anything or to really be a
(02:37):
novice in the field.
You forget that those words areactually jargon that are used
commonly in your circles, butother people don't know them.
So that is one of the thingsthat I do is help people to step
back and say now, wait a minute, let's start from the beginning
.
Let's imagine that youraudience doesn't know anything.
Or let's imagine that youraudience knows some things, but
(02:58):
they still need you to take themstep by step and help them
understand what it is that youknow so well.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
And not even do it in a dry way, like I remember when
you helped me, you were like,well, look, why don't you tell a
story?
Is there a person, is there aculmination of the person that
you're trying to help?
That you could go along andoutline your steps, but doing it
(03:29):
in a way that people can keepup with you because they're
following a character, orsomething like that.
I mean, that was one of thetechniques that you helped me
with and I just I thought whatyou helped me with was brilliant
, and let me just say that Idon't call on people very often
(03:51):
to help me.
I don't know if it's, I don'tknow what it, but I don't want
to waste my time with peopletrying to tell me something I
already know.
So I'm a little bit skeptical,but I can say, when you helped
me, you really it was reallyeye-opening for me, and so I'm
(04:12):
just that's why I'm excited tohave you on.
So today we're just going tofocus a little bit on
researchers, and you know why isit important for you to help
researchers get their pointacross.
I mean, they've done the study,they know what they're talking
about.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Right, and they are certainly the expert.
So it's an interesting case, Ithink, with them.
I started out focusing in thefield of human trafficking when
I first became a coach and so Istarted going to those
trafficking conferences and thiswas my first exposure to since
I was in college, which was wayback.
(04:53):
This was my most recentexposure to researchers and how
they presented and of course, Ihad been reading research, but
it's a whole different animal tosee these researchers
presenting and this was a realeye-opener for me because one I
was very curious.
I was new to the field and Iwanted to learn as much as I
(05:14):
could and I realized that theyweren't really making it easy
for me and I would sit therethinking, ok, I'm not dumb and
this isn't rocket science, whyam I having such a hard time
understanding what they'retelling me?
And after it happened again andagain and again, I realized oh,
it's the way that they'representing.
(05:35):
They really don't know how tomake it easy for me to quickly
understand what they're saying,or even sitting and listening,
and listening and listening.
So even not necessarily beingquickly, but just understand it
all.
And in their defense, mostresearchers have never been
shown how to present to theaverage audience.
They're used to probablypresenting to their peers.
(05:57):
They've seen their professorspresent and this generally means
they take that research articleand they start with the let
review and they just work theirway through the sections of the
article and end with whateverthe recommendations for further
research are.
So this works OK if you'representing to your peers.
(06:18):
I still don't think it's agreat way to do it, but it's
acceptable within, for example,within your university
department.
But when you're talking to,let's just say, a layperson or
people who have expertise inother fields.
So the classic example is ahuman trafficking conference,
because we've got lawenforcement professionals, legal
professionals, healthcareprofessionals, social work
(06:39):
professionals, that goes on andon, and then lay people, those
wonderful lay people who arejust there because they want to
learn and do something good,right, they want to volunteer,
they want to support the cause,but those people are not
necessarily experts in whateverthe researcher is presenting,
whatever they're the expert in,and so they need to learn what I
(07:01):
say.
I use this word translate.
They need to learn how totranslate everything, their
findings, the way.
How do you say methodologywithout saying methodology?
How do you stay a statisticalanalysis without saying that
Because those words aren't goingto make any sense to the
average person.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I want to break into the podcast to invite you to
celebrate our 20th anniversarywith us.
Over the past two decades, theInternational Human Trafficking
and Social Justice Conferencehas welcomed thousands of
attendees from all 50 states andfrom 50 countries.
We are the largest and oldestacademic conference on human
(07:39):
trafficking in the world.
Our 20th annual conference willbe hosted virtually this year,
on September 20th through the22nd.
You'll have the opportunity tolearn from and collaborate with
thousands of advocates,researchers, providers and
survivors from across the globe.
This will be our largestconference to date, with over
(08:02):
115 breakout sessions featuring200 expert presenters speaking
about various topics related tohuman trafficking and social
justice issues.
You won't want to miss thisspecial 20th anniversary
conference.
Make sure you are part of theconversation and don't miss out.
Find out more and registertoday on our website
(08:23):
traffickingconferencecom.
Now on with the podcast.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Even a lawyer who studied that, maybe back when he
was in the university, isn'tnecessarily going to remember or
connect with those terms.
So I'm kind of a good example,because I had my master's degree
and I even had to write some ofthose studies, but it's not my
language.
So recently I was working witha client exactly on this.
I'm presenting her research andI said you want to think of it
(08:51):
this way, that one of yourlanguages let's say you're
bilingual, you speak English andyou speak research, and all
your colleagues speak researchtoo, and that's fine.
But when you go in front of theaverage audience, they don't
speak research, and so if you'reup there speaking research and
using all these terms, they'renot going to understand what
(09:11):
you're saying.
So in my case, you know I knewthose words, I knew methodology
and I knew oh yeah, kaisa, butit didn't have a lot of meaning
for me.
It's more like my second orthird language, and so I had to
really struggle to say OK, whatdoes all of this mean?
And then there was kind of thecommon issue of their
overloading the slides.
They're not timing, so thenthey're cramming everything in.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And let me say I wholeheartedly agree.
I mean, even as a doctoralstudent, I would go to these
research conferences, you know,and I would listen and I would
look at the poster presentationsand I would.
I would be horribly intimidatedand I would, oh my God, you
know, they know so much, theyare so smart, and and I would
(09:55):
walk away not understanding whatthey were trying to convey to
me.
But I did understand that theywere super smart.
Now, that wasn't their point,but that's what I walked away
with.
And then, years later, I wouldgo to these poster presentations
or these live presentations andI would walk away sad.
(10:16):
I would say, wow, you've doneall of this work and you
couldn't get your informationacross.
That's sad.
And so how do you write Like?
A great example is somebody whosays I did a longitudinal
dichotomous study, like you dida what?
(10:36):
Oh?
You did a study for a long time, right, and you asked, yes, no
questions.
Why not just say that to aperson so that they can speak
that you can speak the samelanguage, yes, so yeah, I
totally.
And the fact that people jam alot of information on their
slides and then I'm stillthinking about slide one,
(11:00):
because one I have to translatewhat you just said in slide one.
That's going to take me aminute, and now you're on slide
four, so I don't even know whatyou're talking about at this
point.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So yeah, so I relate to that for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
And I want to go back to what you said about how you
eventually came to theconclusion of wow, that's sad
that you've done all this work,and I felt exactly that way, but
perhaps multiplied.
Well, it may have been in yourcase too, because you studied
social work, where people were,for example, they were
interviewing survivors of humantrafficking, and maybe they did
(11:37):
200 interviews Like.
I remember very, very clearlythis one particular study where
they had interviewed hundredsand hundreds of survivors and
they were.
So there was the toll on thoseresearchers right Of hearing
those difficult stories.
There was the toll on thesurvivors of telling those
stories but hoping that it would, it was going to make a
difference.
So there was not just mentalenergy and time, but there was
(12:01):
emotional energy and time andthen and then hardly anybody
could understand what they weresaying and I thought that is
such a shame.
This should not be happening.
People are putting in so muchwork and then all those
survivors in good faith areparticipating because they're
hoping that it's going to changesomebody's life, it's going to
make a difference.
Maybe somebody else doesn'thave to go through this horrible
thing and and that's all good.
(12:24):
Right, the that study is a goodthing and they got valuable
information from it, but thenthey couldn't present it and,
like you said it's.
It just seems really sad and Ithought I got I've got to do
something to try and change this, because this is my field, I
can help these people.
I know I can help them.
I'm going to try.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, oh, that that is.
I think that is what we need asresearchers, and so so your
services.
I mean, when somebody investsin your services, that's what it
is.
It's an investment, right,because they need, they have all
the skills to do the work, butnow they've lost themselves in
(13:09):
terms of how do I convey myinformation very clearly, very
strategically, because I have alot of information, but what is
it that you need to know andwhat is it that maybe you don't
need to know until a later dateor something?
But I only have one hour oronly have 30 minutes what?
How do I get this informationacross?
(13:29):
So, when people connect withyou, they are making an
investment in getting theirinformation across.
What we do as researchers.
Our last leg is dissemination.
How do we disseminate veryclearly?
So can you talk about the waysthat you help and you have
(13:52):
different programs that peoplecan get involved in?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Sure, and I want to just say one thing before I say
that, and that is because yousaid it's the last leg, and I
think what happens is thatresearchers are so tired by that
point and they're just like, ohmy gosh, I'm so glad I got this
done.
I remember I felt like that whenmy thesis was finally done and
and you think it's done and itfeels done, but it's a little
(14:17):
bit like making this amazingcake and like a wedding cake and
it's delicious and the feelingis awesome, but you don't frost
it.
It's like no, the cake is done,and so what people see is not a
good representation of the workthat you've done, because you
didn't take that final step, andso I understand that you just
want to be done already.
(14:38):
But if you do make thisinvestment, it's so.
It's so worth it because you'reinvesting not only in ensuring
that people are going tounderstand the findings of this
particular research that you did, but you're investing in
yourself so that in the future,whatever you do in the future
now, you're going to know how todo it.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, and my sort of investment in this whole
conversation is and the wholereason we have the podcast is to
increase the knowledge and theskills of people who want to be
advocates, who want to do thebest job that they can.
So it's so important that wetranslate the effective work,
(15:20):
the best practice work, in a waythat's clearly understandable.
If you are a researcher, youdon't need to go in and use
confusing language so thatpeople are impressed.
Like, if you want people to beimpressed, go somewhere else, go
to your family and use a bunchof $5 words or whatever.
(15:40):
But what we're doing here isyou are really hopefully trying
to get information across thepeople so that they can use it,
so that they can have thatknowledge, so they move forward
and do the best job that theycan do.
So people that are interestedin this, they can connect with
(16:02):
you in various ways.
Like, you have differentoptions for them, right?
So what are those options?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Right.
So the first one is I offer atwo-hour workshop, and so this
is a group workshop.
It would be for eight peoplemax, because I want to make sure
that everybody has anopportunity to talk to me to get
their questions answered.
The first part is I teach themthis process and, of all right,
(16:31):
you have your research done.
What do you do now in order togo from I have my article to all
right, I have a presentationthat's really going to land well
with my audience.
So it's a five-step process.
I teach in the process and thenwe have time in between and
also at the end, or in betweensteps and also at the end, for
them to ask questions and sayokay, for example, I have this
(16:53):
particular point, but I don'tknow how to translate it, I
don't know how to get it across.
Or I want to tell the story,but I don't know if I can, or I
don't know what story to tellhere.
So that's the workshop, andthat is 135 US dollars.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
And then I think to me, that is I would so invest in
that.
That would be a no-brainer forme, just because it takes me a
few hours to figure out how Iwant to say something and
sometimes I don't have thefeedback from somebody.
So I think that is that'sawesome.
(17:29):
And then being, you know, inthe space with other people and
look as they're talking abouttheir project, I mean I think
that's very cool, I think it'svery reasonable, and what else
do you have?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So then I have a three-session package and this
is kind of the quick and dirtyapproach.
So I also teach you thatprocess and I get you, I let you
have a, or I give you arecording of the workshop,
because I have a separaterecording where there's it's
just me talking and it doesn'thave the Q&A.
(18:05):
So it's kind of like ade-identified workshop so that
you, you learn the basics ofwhat I taught in there and then
I apply your specific researchto the process.
So I blend the two.
How can you you with yourparticular research go through
these five steps?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I like that.
Now do I go to the session witheight people and then the three
session course with you, or isthis just a three session
private course with you and me?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
So you have a couple options.
This was something I didrecently.
I had that event and there wasa doctor from a university and
some of her team members and shecame to that and then she said
you know what I want?
More help.
And so then I did the threesession package with her and
helped her specifically applyher research.
(19:05):
So in this one I'll make sampleslides for you and I'll give
you ideas of you could tell thisstory or you could explain this
this way.
So I am more involved in yourspecific research as opposed to
in the workshop.
It's more general.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, that's awesome.
And then for people who want alittle bit more, do you have?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
something for them.
I do.
I have a higher touchsuccession package and this.
I take you through that sameprocess, but I'm also adding on
delivery, because those othertwo there wasn't really a chance
to talk about delivery.
So, for people who don't have alot of experience or who are
particularly anxious, I talkabout delivery and then I give
(19:47):
you some chances to practice andsome chances to record and I
give you feedback on thoserecordings and also I'm giving
you more examples of your slides, more so it's just like more of
the same.
If you feel like man, I reallyI really need more, I'm really
lost or I just would like thathelp.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, because some people, okay, they got the
slides, they're looking gorgeous, but then their delivery, maybe
they ramble on, maybe theydon't have good inflection.
Sure, you know that kind ofdelivery.
Yeah, I could see peoplegetting nervous.
I've seen people who presentedor even talked to the news and
(20:32):
then got finished with it andthen turned to me and say I hope
that was good.
I don't even remember what Isaid.
I was so nervous, sure, sure,yeah.
So a number of people have thatissue.
So if people so, the workshopis 135.
And then what's the threesession and six session?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Right, the three session is 600 and the six
session I'm wanting to say it's1250.
I'm just like changing what,I'm changing my notes on the fly
, so we'll say 1250 for now, butI do add that we have I have a
sliding scale if you're workingin the field of human
trafficking.
So, although that's not myniche anymore, I'll say that I
(21:14):
have a soft spot for those ofyou working in that field.
I know it's really tough and Ijust want to offer that to you
if you're interested in workingwith me.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, I think that's very generous and, as of August,
at least August 2023, those arethe prices today.
So I wouldn't I would probablyjump on it because that's not
probably not going to stay thatlow of a price forever.
But I think an investment likethat is something.
It's a skill.
It's not like they have to runback every time.
(21:47):
Okay, now I have this one.
Okay, now I have to do this.
Right.
It's a skill that they learn,that they take forward and then
use it, you know.
So I mean, I would think that'sa great investment.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Thank you, and that's really the idea of this process
, is that now you know theprocess and so you can apply it
to your next article.
And, of course, if you want, ifyou have questions or whatever,
I'm open to that.
Or if you wanted to say, nancy,can you just listen to what I
haven't given me feedback, youknow, can you give me an hour?
Sure, I'll figure out something.
(22:22):
Because really the end goal forme is just to support speakers
and to support people who aredoing good work.
So I never say no, it's not thepackage, I don't want to work
with you.
You know, try to.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So you'll come up with some package where it can
be effective and with this areyou open not only to researchers
, but to people who run programs, people who maybe I don't know
researchers, those types ofthings.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Sure.
So pretty much open to any typeof speaking that you're doing.
It doesn't matter if you're.
If you're heading up anorganization and you need to go
talk to your board or you needto go talk to the community
about what you're doing.
If you're so, I can help youwith that.
If you're a survivor and youwant to tell your story, I can
(23:14):
also help you with that.
If you're just doing a keynotefor a special event, definitely.
I think keynotes are really fun.
They don't have quite the samerequirements as something like
presenting research, sodefinitely can support people
doing that.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Awesome, and if people are interested, how do
they get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So you can go to my website, it's standupbegreatcom.
Or you can email me at NancyHardcastle at gmailcom.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I love that Standup be great.
You notice it's not standup beaverage.
I love that People can come inand learn.
Even the most nervous person cancome and learn to be a great
speaker, and I think the pricesare very reasonable for what you
(24:06):
get.
I mean, and people say you knowif you pay for something, that
means you will pay attention.
So I think it's important thatyou know the service you're
providing.
That was a quality service andI think the price for what you
get is very reasonable.
So are there any maybe a tipyou can give us before we end
(24:33):
here, about people who presentor people who write?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Sure, Actually, I have a few tips.
I'm so glad you asked.
So one of the things I suggestas part of this process is that,
as a researcher I'm going backto that focus is that you curate
your findings.
And what I mean by curate isyou look at who your audience is
and then you decide what you'regoing to focus on, because they
might not be interested inthose statistical analysis, they
(25:00):
might not be interested in therecommendations, but probably,
if they're a broader audience,they're going to be really
interested in what you found andwhat you think they should do
with what you found.
So take some time, investigateyour audience and then decide
what you should focus on.
A second recommendation iscreate a separate document.
(25:20):
The best thing would be a PDFwhere you're going to put your
sources if you have anyresources, A lot of those
details that I often say takethese out of the slide deck,
it's too much information.
But speakers often tell me but Iwant my audience to have this.
A lot of times they ask me forthe PowerPoint because they want
these details.
So I say, fine, but put that ina separate doc, make it a PDF.
(25:43):
Now you can make all thoselinks clickable in the PDF,
because when you're displayingall that information it's often
too small or they can't doanything with the link on a
screen anyway.
But you get to have all thelinks that you want.
Just put it in a separate docand then you can either house it
on your or host it on yourwebsite.
(26:03):
Or if you don't have a website,you can say, hey, email me,
I'll send you the PDF.
Happy to send you the PDF.
Oh, that's a good one.
So right, because I know noteverybody has a place to host it
, but you can easily just haveyour PDF and if people email you
you send it off to them.
And I know that's an extra stepbut it's going to make your
presentation so much betterbecause you're not going to have
those overloaded slides.
(26:24):
And also, I want to mentionthat on Celia's network,
Emancipation Nation Network, youcan watch a free class that I
did called Public SpeakingJumpstart for surefire ways to
improve your presentation.
So you can go to EmancipationNation Network, you can maybe
(26:47):
you can tell them, Celia, how tofind the courses and then watch
that.
And so in that I'll give yougeneral tips.
So, for example, if you're notdoing research or you want
general tips on your slide orgeneral tips on how to practice,
you can watch.
That that's for free.
And if you still want more, youcan go to my website, which is,
(27:07):
once again, standupbegreatcom,and I have a free call to action
guide.
So the call to action isanother thing that I really
encourage speakers to do of alltypes, and they often forget or
they often don't know how tocreate a call to action.
So the guide shows you, step bystep, exactly how to do it.
You come out with your call toaction, there it is, and then
(27:29):
also you'll be.
If you choose to say subscribe,you get to be on my mailing
list.
I do send out a lot of things,but I do send out tips for you
and if I'm going to have anevent or something you might be
interested in as a speaker.
So there you have it.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Wow, that's a power pack that's very generous.
I mean.
I think that's a lot of.
Those are a lot of qualityitems and tips.
And yes, you go to EmancipationNation Network.
You just simply Google thosethree words.
You can become a member forfree.
Once you go in there, justclick on the start here, you
(28:02):
know link that's veryprominently displayed and then
you will see phases and you knowthe free content is in phase
one and phase two and you'llfind Nancy Hardcastle's
information there.
So it's always a pleasuretalking to you, nancy, and
(28:24):
you've been so helpful.
Like I said to me, you've beenhelpful to people that come to
our conference and of course wehave a commercial.
You know we had a commercial inthere about our conference
during this podcast, but you'vebeen helpful to people that
present at the conference and sojust always a pleasure talking
to you.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Thanks so much, celia .
I appreciate all your kindwords and I'm so happy that you
found so much value working withme.
It makes me happy, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
That was Nancy Hardcastle of Stand Up, be Great
.
Look, if you're doing apresentation and you've done all
of this work, or perhaps youhave lived experience and you
survived through that experienceto thrive, but can't get your
point across clearly, this isnot a given, this is a skill.
(29:12):
And so the final leg to letpeople know what they need to
know, to share your expertise,and do that in the clearest way,
the most concise way possible,the most impactful way.
And so, just like me, if youneed the service, reach out,
(29:35):
become clear on what you need tosay so that your audience
receives exactly what youintended for them to receive.
Until next time, the fightcontinues, let's not just do
something, let's do the bestthing.
If you liked this episode ofEmancipation Nation, please
(29:56):
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