Join us for a powerful discussion that will leave you both moved and inspired. Our guest is Tina Dixon, a thriver, advocate, and entrepreneur who has faced unimaginable hardships and emerged on the other side as a beacon of strength and resilience. Tina bravely shares her harrowing 30-year journey from being enmeshed in human trafficking and domestic violence to embarking on a path of sobriety and liberation. Listen as she takes us through her terrifying encounters with the Dixie Mafia in a remote Louisiana brothel and her triumphant escape.
Also in the spotlight is Tina's remarkable transition from being a victim to a victorious advocate, fueled by her past experiences to empower and engage women who've been similarly scarred. As part of her healing journey, Tina shares her experiences with Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) therapy, a therapeutic technique that uses eye movement and vibration techniques to help survivors reprocess traumatic events and cope with triggers. We dive deeper into the often under-recognized but critical aspect of trauma healing for survivors of sex trafficking.
The story takes a turn from the personal to the communal as Tina talks about her groundbreaking organization, Queens, founded to empower women in digital marketing and entrepreneurship. Hear Tina's invaluable advice for advocates and survivors on leveraging their transferable skills for professional success. This conversation is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the transformative power of lived experiences. Get ready for this powerful conversation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You know the why human trafficking work is needed
To fight for the freedom ofmodern day slaves.
But love, passion, commitmentisn't all you need to be an
effective and successfulanti-trafficking advocate.
Learn the how.
I'm Dr Celia Williamson,director of the Human
Trafficking and Social JusticeInstitute at the University of
(00:23):
Toledo.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation podcast, where I'll
provide you with the latest andbest methods, policy and
practice discussed byexperienced experts in the field
, so that you can cut throughthe noise, save time and be
about the work of saving lives.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation, episode 191.
(00:44):
I'm Dr Celia Williamson andtoday I have Tina Dixon with me.
She is a survivor advocate andentrepreneur whose mission is
really to engage and empowerwomen who are harmed through
human trafficking and ordomestic violence.
So, after 30 years ofexploitation and addiction, tina
(01:08):
achieved her freedom in March2013 after completing a one-year
trauma program.
So, with determination,creativity and tireless work
ethic, tina was able to openDixon Digital Marketing in 2016.
That same year, she becameinvolved in the human
(01:31):
trafficking movement and servedas a housing liaison for Empower
225 in Baton Rouge, louisiana.
I don't think we've had anybodyfrom Louisiana yet, so this is
our first so tasked withsecuring housing for newly freed
women.
Tina discovered her passion andher natural ability to work with
(01:54):
survivors as they process theirexperience and discover a
better life.
So Tina went on to create anorganization called Queens.
I love it.
I love the name People who aresupporting one another as they
(02:14):
navigate the world of businessthrough the female perspective.
So Tina is going to talk alittle bit about her experience.
Hopefully, her organization,queens and Tina, is also
recently an award winner, sowe're going to touch on that as
well.
So welcome Tina.
(02:36):
I'm so glad that you could makethe time to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Thank you so much.
It's definitely an honor to behere, yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Louisiana is in the house.
So can you tell us, tina, howyou got involved in your
organization?
I think before that, I guess.
Tell us about your traffickingexperience.
And then I want to ask you somequestions.
You know how you evolved fromthere to be successful and to be
(03:08):
able to give back like you'redoing.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Sure sure.
I actually entered thetrafficking at about 14 years
old.
My father was in an outlawmotorcycle club, my mother was a
psychic.
It was a very dysfunctionalhome.
I was being abused and I ranaway from home and I went to New
(03:33):
Orleans and of course somebodywas able to get me an ID.
I was kind of well developed for14 year old and I started
dancing on Bourbon Street and Imet this guy that was in the
Dixie Mafia and during that timethis was the late 70s there
were brothels all throughout thestate of Louisiana, in like the
(03:57):
deep swamp areas.
The Dixie Mafia ran that state,mississippi and a few others,
and they called them lockupjoints.
And so this man brought me toone of these lockup joints where
I stayed for about three yearsand we were there.
(04:19):
It was just like it was abrothel, and when people came in
we lined up, they picked oneand it was very, very traumatic.
I was kind of hard headed inthose days and so my trafficker
was called often to correct me,and often they correct me in
front of all the other girls,and it was just a really
(04:44):
traumatic time for me.
And then I went on from thatOnce we got out of the brothels,
he brought me into his bar,where he caught me one night
doing drugs with a client, andhe beat me unconscious and left
me in an alley for dead.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Let me back up a little bit.
So I am not aware of DixieMafia, so I'm assuming that this
is a criminal enterprise thatoperates around Louisiana area.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yes, ma'am, it's a criminal operation that operates
in the southern states.
Actually, there was a movieabout a sheriff who got rid of
some of them, called WalkingTall, back in the day.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Oh, I'm familiar with that movie, this lockup or what
did you call it?
They?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
called it a lockup joint.
It's kind of interesting andwhat the title of my book is is
when you got ready to go to workbecause you'd go home for 10
days and then they bring youhome for a couple of days and
take you shopping and party andall of that, and then they bring
you back and they'd say come on, let's go to the country.
And these locations were securein very small towns throughout
(06:03):
Louisiana.
Generally they had a bar in thefront, they had a back room,
poker room, and then they hadlittle rooms in the back where
the girls worked out of.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, I had never heard of that.
Do you suspect that some ofthose things exist still today?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I suspect maybe in a few of the remote areas in
Louisiana there may be somethinglike that still in existence.
I know the trafficking teamhere works closely in those
areas and they recently openedup a program in a rural area.
So I don't have the T, so tospeak, but I believe that.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, I mean it seems like, since it's all about the
money, it seems like that wouldstill exist in some form or
fashion.
So you were 14, you got caughtup in this situation.
Then how long were you a victimof this type of sex trafficking
or exploitation?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, I actually was in the life, as they call it,
for about 30 years, for a reallylong time.
From that time I was able toescape this man and I went to
Dallas, texas, and I met myfirst trafficker that worked
(07:29):
girls on the street and I gotinto what they call street game
and I became addicted to crackcocaine and so, as a result, I
kind of, you know, went fromtrafficker to trafficker,
thinking in my sit traumatizedmind that maybe one of these got
(07:50):
one of these men were going tohelp me overcome my drug
addiction.
But what happened was nothinglike that.
I stayed until, and so,literally in 1992, I got
pregnant while I was out workingand I got away from that for a
little while and then I had thebaby.
(08:13):
My sister ended up adopting theyoung man and he actually works
in in trafficking now.
He's a great, he's a great kidand we've reunited and I'm
really, really proud of himright now.
And then I, as I tried to getmyself together, I really had
not overcame all the trauma thatI mean I had been beat and
(08:36):
mercy was locked, locked away.
A lot of things really happenedto me, traumatic in those
situations, and so I attemptedto get married.
That didn't work.
I left my husband and went backto my, to my trafficker, and I
I would try.
You know, I started learningmarketing, I learned graphic
(08:56):
design, I went to work for aCajun chef down here in
Louisiana and my husband passedaway.
And my husband passed away, Iwent to it back in the life and
I really just bounced back andforth in the life, from the
square world, as we call it, toback in the life, because I
(09:18):
really hadn't addressed thedemons that were inside of me.
Yeah, it wasn't really until Iwas 50 years old that those
demons were addressed.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
But I mean, this is this type of exploitation of sex
trafficking from 14 on seemsvery familiar to me.
This is what I know most aboutin in in.
People are still looking forthat caricature, that cartoon
(09:50):
version of some kid get snatchedinto a white van.
As you know, whatever it is,they believe.
But the exploitation, themanipulation, the vulnerability,
the needing someone to help youwho exploited you from 14 years
old in Louisiana and in thoseback areas to them, somebody who
(10:16):
exploited you after you ranfrom there on on the streets and
street prostitution, and thetrauma Thank you leading to the
use of drugs or alcohol.
And if you're not taking careof that trauma, addressing that
trauma, it starts to resurfacein various aspects of your life.
(10:43):
And this seems to be a lot ofthe common progression of what
we see in the US as sextrafficking.
So how did you get to a pointwhere you wanted to get either
(11:04):
drugs and alcohol treatment oryou wanted to get out of the
game?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Well, you know, I had drug and alcohol treatment many
times.
I actually went to 17 drugrehabs and each time that I went
to drug rehab it was alwayscaught the 12 steps and do this.
You know like you gotta go tomeetings, you gotta do this.
(11:29):
You gotta like work your steps.
We'll worry about thepsychological stuff later.
You need to address youraddiction first, and that was
not what I needed.
I needed somebody to address mytrauma before I could even look
at my addiction problems.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Hey, I wanna break into this episode for a moment.
I wanna remind you thatsurvivors of sex trafficking
experience trauma as a result.
Trauma-informed care issomething we learn so that we
don't retraumatize victims.
However, trauma-informed carewill not lower someone's trauma.
We have survivors that need toheal inside.
(12:07):
Most quality direct serviceworkers connect survivors to
needed services like healthcare,housing, legal services and
more, but these services, whilenecessary, won't address the
internal trauma.
Even when we connect them totrauma treatment counselors,
they spend about an hour a weekaddressing traumas that have
(12:30):
taken over their entire lives.
They need so much more.
Connecting someone in neededhousing won't fix the brokenness
inside.
Arresting their traffickerallows them justice, but it
won't heal the internal pain.
Linking them to a lawyer won'ttake them to a place of
reclaiming their freedom andexperiencing genuine joy.
(12:53):
Walking alongside survivors toprovide support, nurturing love,
kindness and to build arelationship is critical, but
they also need the tools toregain the power, choice and
voice internally.
Healing the internal painrequires survivors to do the
(13:14):
internal work.
I've worked with and studied theissue for almost 30 years.
I recently wrote a bookoutlining the 12 journeys that
survivors need to go on to healthe trauma and to live the life
they truly wanna live.
I'd love to train you to be agroup facilitator, leading
survivors toward the internalhealing they need.
(13:35):
The training is the TNTSurvivors Journey Group.
Let me train you to facilitatethese important groups and put
survivors on their path toliving the life they want and
experience the freedom and joythey deserve.
To learn more, go to my websitesilyawaymsoncom and watch the
(13:56):
free webinar to learn more aboutthe course.
I look forward to training youand helping you help survivors
to heal.
And now on with the podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And so it began the cycle of going back and forth
and I see women my age that hadthe same experience.
I do hear some they areaddressing trauma now in
treatment centers, but not allof them.
There's still a lot of 12 stepbased treatment centers.
(14:30):
And look, I always honored the12 steps in the program because
it helped me get on my feet.
It gave me the community Ineeded.
But let's face it, thosesponsors and other people in
those organizations they're notprofessionals and they're not
equipped to deal with trauma.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more because and the
program that you went to thatactually focused on trauma.
I mean, that's even so rarebecause but people are talking
about trauma informed care.
That just means I'm informedthat you have trauma.
(15:11):
That doesn't translate into I'mhelping you heal your trauma,
just because I know you havetrauma.
So this is where we are, atleast people.
Some people can use the wordsbut, yeah, they have yet to know
what they mean and develop sometype of program.
(15:32):
So when you spend a yearcompleting your trauma program,
what tell us what that was about?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Well, and actually at the age of about 45, my
trafficker had actually sent meto school to learn digital
marketing so that we could putthe girls on the web.
And I was at a porn conventionand I met this beautiful person,
Annie LaBeurre, and she had aprogram called Destiny House and
(16:05):
I met her at the pornconvention.
So, fast forward about anotheryear.
I was just miserable.
I could not stay.
I had all this opportunitybecause I had all this knowledge
and this professional ability,but I couldn't function in a
professional environment.
And, Annie, not only was Ispiritually renewed, I also
(16:30):
began EMDR.
Emdr changed my life.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
And describe that, because there's a lot of
research.
And just let me for one secondsay that you know I want to
revisit trauma-informed care.
That just tells you.
I know you have trauma.
If I haven't done anything, Ijust didn't re-harm you, didn't
re-trigger you, but in order toheal, EMDR has had some great
(17:02):
results in terms of research, soI'm so glad you brought that up
.
Tell us a little bit about EMDR.
What is it and actually whatdid you do?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
So EMDR is built up around specific trauma points.
So it starts with a lot oftalking therapy and the
therapist identifies certaintraumatic events that happen
during the course of your life.
Then you reprocess those.
So in the first time that I hadEMDR they used because I could
(17:35):
not typically EMDRs use eyemovement.
It means eye movement, thesyntha-sentation sorry bad
pronunciation Reprocessing yeah.
Reprocessing bad pronunciation.
I joke around.
Sometimes I say that justbecause I'm a redneck.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
That's okay, I love this accent, but go ahead.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
But so they used vibration.
So I had these little pods thatwere vibration pods and I'd
alternate them in my hands orunder my thigh, I would begin to
talk about it and the vibrationwould change intensity at
(18:19):
different points.
Then what happens is that theyask you to recognize what your
body is feeling.
So, as your body is feelingmore, even based on different
vibration, which is differenttoday, I still do EMDR.
I'm on my second round of.
EMDR.
(18:39):
When I got successful, I had abunch of things come up that I
wasn't equipped to deal with andwe could talk about that later.
But now I do EMDR with eyemovement.
You actually pinpoint thedirection that you're looking at
and you go by the cues in yourbody on how your body feels.
(19:02):
So maybe looking to the leftthe feeling may be real intense
and then maybe when you get tothe right the feeling might die
down some.
So they work on the body andthe brain.
It's really fantastic,fascinating science, but it
works.
It's literally changed my life.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And so, when you're either using the vibration or
the rapid eye movement, are youthinking about like a
traumatizing experience at thattime, or what are you asked to
think about?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, you think about the traumatizing experience and
they basically bring you to thehighest level of that
traumatizing experience and thenuse the eye movement to bring
you down.
So in the future, when youthink about that, the feelings
are more level and you're notexperiencing these highs and
(19:59):
these lows, but you'reexperiencing a more level
vibrational area that your bodyand your brain can deal with
more appropriately.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And so is there ever a time when you recall this
memory and your stress oremotion or body's reaction is
high that you can bring yourselfdown.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yes, I was actually taught, and I remember this,
back in those days I was in LasVegas, I had graduated from the
program and I was in a soberliving house and driving around,
and I drive around Las Vegasand I'd see things that would
trigger me, and so what I woulddo is I would hit my knee on the
inside of the car door inrhythm and it would bring me
(20:46):
down and it would keep me,basically because I would go in
these areas, because I thought Iwas curious about what was
going on and it basically keptme clean, kept me from using
drugs under medication.
Nowadays, actually, there's aYouTube video with the ball
moving back and forth and I doEMDR myself all the time when I
(21:10):
get over, stressed and so youuse the tool that you were
taught for your own self care.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I think that's awesome, and for you it was.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
you had to address the trauma first, then the
substance use issue, and it'sexactly, and I and I addressed
the trauma initially inside of aenvironment where I was very
highly supervised, where Istayed for a year at Destiny
House and I moved on to soberliving and continued EMDR as I
(21:46):
was out in the world, which wasparticularly healthy for me.
It was a lot, it was help, itwas helpful to be able to have
those world day to day triggerscome up and be able to handle
them by myself and learn selfcare and learn how to take care
of myself.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I mean, I think that's so much rooted in there
as you know, regaining yourpower, choice and voice, because
you knew, even though they weresaying oh no, you got to take
your substance use issue first.
You knew yourself and you knewyour body and you knew what you
needed, and I think that levelof empowerment is really amazing
(22:31):
and being intuitive enough inyourself to say this is the
route I need to take.
So you and Tina, you are also,before we talk about the Queens,
I want to mention that you'rean award winner, so do you want
to tell the listeners?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
how much?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
you've won this award .
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Well, you know, I've been in digital marketing for
quite some time almost 20 yearsbasically, between relapses for
many, many years.
But I affectionately, later inmy career, became known as
Mamati and when I started theQueens, I started this
organization, queens, to empowerwomen, and in order to explain
(23:19):
the award, I have to kind ofexplain the concept of Queens.
And so the concept of Queens forme is that internet marketing,
affiliate marketing, performancemarketing it's a male dominated
field and I would repeatedlywatch, and most of the
networking is done in a tradeshow environment.
So every time I would go to atrade show, I'd see a lot of the
(23:41):
pretty girls would be hired forthe trade show booth, and they
would hire girls fresh out ofcollege and she was basically
being used as clickbait, andthen, once the customer came to
the booth, the guys wouldquickly jump up and the young
lady would rarely get part ofthe.
(24:02):
You know a little bit of thedeal.
She would not get compensatedthe same way that the male
counterpart was compensated.
And so the reason for creatingQueens is that I wanted to
empower these women and I wantedto give them a safe place to
network.
So we started doing trade showevents where we'd have private
(24:24):
meeting rooms are, and we alsohave cocktail parties where the
women could get together,facebook groups, skype groups
where women can network witheach other, and this was
considered a humanitarian effortin the affiliate marketing,
performance marketing arena, andso it was awarded the IP
(24:46):
because of humanitarian,humanitarian contributions.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, I love that.
I love like I said, I loved itthe name Queens.
I love that you are supportiveof women who use their beauty as
part of their work and thereare so many professions where
this takes place, right so, butyou empower them to be able to
(25:16):
take control, to be able to beadequately compensated, to be
able to reclaim their power interms of their profession and
what they do.
So how long have you operated,queens?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Queens started in 2021.
I opened my own internetmarketing agency in 2020 with a
business partner right in themiddle of COVID.
Okay, I like that Okay, rightin the middle of COVID.
But and it's definitely been ajourney, but I had the idea for
(25:53):
Queens.
I do a lot of travel andparticularly flight booking,
which is a vertical in ourindustry, and so one day this
guy called me the queen offlight booking and that was just
a joke.
For a little while I was thequeen of flight booking and then
he saw me at a conference andhe said there's the queen of
paper call.
Well, paper call is the type ofadvertising that we do and I
(26:16):
really had thought to myself andI'm like I'm not the only queen
here, there's lots of queenshere and the idea just kept
brewing and kept brewing and welaunched our first event at the
Las Vegas Affiliate Summit andwe chartered.
My company, Ringlad Media,hosted an event on the high
(26:39):
roller wheel and so we had allthe women come and join on the
high roller.
There's actually pictures onour website of all the events
where we get together andnetwork with one another, but
that was our first event andit's just moved rapidly since
then.
It's really grown quickly.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
That's so cool.
And with your digital company,do you still take on clients?
Just that in general.
Do you still have a thing.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
It's more specifically to performance,
marketing and lead generation.
So our company acts asbasically a broker.
So we have media buyers andadvertisers media buyers on one
side, advertisers on the otherside and so I take the results
of these media buyers and I sellthem to call centers in
(27:35):
different industries likeinsurance, home improvement,
home services, internet, tv andflight booking and travel, hotel
bookings.
Just a lot of differentindustries.
Oh, that's it.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
And you said you got started because the trafficker
wanted you to learn how tobetter his business.
But actually you took this andyou spend it and actually
benefited.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
became a pretty good career for you Exactly exactly,
and that's why I'm so driven tohelp other women to do that as
well.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So, tina, tell me a lot of listeners, their
advocates, they want to do theright thing, they want to do the
best thing that they canpossibly do to fight against
human trafficking.
Do you have any advice for themin general, or any advice for
women?
(28:38):
Sometimes we are a little morehesitant to jump out there and
start our own businesses andshine.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I think you have to know your worth number one.
If you don't understand thetrue value of yourself as a
woman, then it's really hard tomake yourself bigger, because
that's what it takes.
It takes making yourself biggerthan all of the other forces
around you.
It starts with, and so now Ihave this new initiative that we
(29:14):
just started with Queens and Ihad a local digital marketing
training academy that trainsmedia buyers to offer me five
scholarships for humantrafficking survivors to go
through the program.
What we've done is we'vematched these survivors with
mentors, these professionalwomen in our organization, with
(29:38):
these human traffickingsurvivors as they go through
this digital marketing trainingand hopefully become
entrepreneurs as a result ofthis.
And for survivors, this offersthem the opportunity to be
remote.
When working with girls andworking with women in human
(29:59):
trafficking, it's reallyimportant to notice what
triggers them.
So you have a woman and you'vesent her to school and she's
went to college and she's gotthis fantastic job and she just
can't make it.
She keeps going from job to job.
I did the same thing.
I could not handle corporatelife.
(30:20):
I could not handle somebodytelling me what to do.
People would be ugly, like theyalways are, and I would get
triggered and then I would blowup and then I would walk out,
and it was this cycle and itwasn't until I really embraced
in 2017.
I went completely remote longbefore COVID.
(30:44):
The other thing that I tellsurvivors that are coming on is
to use those transferable skills.
We had natural survival skillsout there.
We knew what to say, went tosay it, how to say it, to
achieve the desired result.
Well, you can take those verysame skills and bring them into
(31:06):
the professional world and bevery successful, because we know
when we were out there, wefought hard and hustled hard to
make sure that we got what ittook to keep to really avoid a
beating, and so we built thisnatural drive and this natural
(31:27):
hustle and so use that to yourability in order to achieve your
dreams.
And I heard the podcast thatyou did with Polaris and the
survivors the survivor study Ithink it was called In Hormes
Way and in that survivor studythey talked about this place
(31:52):
where survivors are rescued,they're emotionally stabilized
and they often programs andfacilities often fall short on
propelling a woman to a placewhere she can succeed, which is
the whole goal of what I'm doingwith Queens and the Queens
Arise Digital ScholarshipProgram.
(32:15):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
That is empowering, that is using someone's
strengths.
Some people can say why did Igo through this?
How can this be useful?
Well, it probably made someonevery empathetic, but those
(32:44):
skills being able to readsomeone, because your life could
depend on it, being able toassess them, being able to
understand your environment andhow to stay safe All of those
things are what you talked aboutbeing transferable.
So I thank you so much forrecognizing that survivors need
(33:07):
to become thrivers.
They need to becomeeconomically successful, they
need to address their trauma.
These are things that manypeople don't talk about.
They want to raise awareness.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
They want to rescue you, which is awesome, and they
want to raise awareness.
But it's so important to bringthe survivor to a point where
she can live comfortably, whereshe can have financial security,
where she can take care of herfamily in a safe environment.
So what better of safeenvironment than in your home?
(33:46):
And a lot of women they go backto trafficking because they
cannot support themselves.
They end up in a minimum wagejob I caught working at
Walgreens and you just can'tmake it that way and so they
start thinking about maybe if Ijust go to the hospital, maybe
if I just did this one littledeal.
And then, as soon as they getout there, of course the
(34:09):
traffickers are out therewaiting for them and they're
re-exploited over and over againand I feel like I've done well
for my life.
At 58 years old, I bought myfirst house.
I recently and this is and Ilike I brag about this, but the
significant of it is I justbought my first luxury car.
(34:32):
I bought a Lexus and it's in myname, it's not in some
traffickers name that he lets medrive.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Oh, I love it I just love it.
It's in my name Right and thankyou, welcome to the club.
I have Lexus too first one everin my life as well, yes, and I
think you deserve it, queen.
So thank you, queen, tina, andthank you for making those women
take their crown that's beenlaying over there on the ground
(35:04):
and you're telling them in allkinds of ways put that crown on
your head and wear it well.
So thank you so much, tina, foryour time and thank you for
what you do.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been great conversation.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
That was Tina Dixon.
Please look her up.
She is amazing and doingamazing work and if you need her
professional services, pleaseuse survivors, use drivers, use
their companies, use theirbusiness.
Spend your money in places thatmake your money.
(35:42):
Speak for you, queen Tina.
I love it.
So I looked up the definitionof queen.
It says a female ruler of anindependent state, an
independent state.
She is operating as a free,independent agent.
(36:05):
It also says a queen, accordingto the game of chess, is the
most powerful piece on the table.
Why?
Because the queen is able tomove in any direction
unobstructed.
So I wish you nothing butsuccess, queen Tina, and all the
(36:28):
queens that work with you.
Until next time the fightcontinues.
Let's not just do something,let's do the best thing.
If you like this episode ofEmancipation Nation, please
subscribe and I'll send you theweekly podcast.
Until then, the fight continues.
You know the why human trafficking work is needed
To fight for the freedom ofmodern day slaves.
But love, passion, commitmentisn't all you need to be an
effective and successfulanti-trafficking advocate.
Learn the how.
I'm Dr Celia Williamson,director of the Human
Trafficking and Social JusticeInstitute at the University of
(00:23):
Toledo.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation podcast, where I'll
provide you with the latest andbest methods, policy and
practice discussed byexperienced experts in the field
, so that you can cut throughthe noise, save time and be
about the work of saving lives.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation, episode 191.
(00:44):
I'm Dr Celia Williamson andtoday I have Tina Dixon with me.
She is a survivor advocate andentrepreneur whose mission is
really to engage and empowerwomen who are harmed through
human trafficking and ordomestic violence.
So, after 30 years ofexploitation and addiction, tina
(01:08):
achieved her freedom in March2013 after completing a one-year
trauma program.
So, with determination,creativity and tireless work
ethic, tina was able to openDixon Digital Marketing in 2016.
That same year, she becameinvolved in the human
(01:31):
trafficking movement and servedas a housing liaison for Empower
225 in Baton Rouge, louisiana.
I don't think we've had anybodyfrom Louisiana yet, so this is
our first so tasked withsecuring housing for newly freed
women.
Tina discovered her passion andher natural ability to work with
(01:54):
survivors as they process theirexperience and discover a
better life.
So Tina went on to create anorganization called Queens.
I love it.
I love the name People who aresupporting one another as they
(02:14):
navigate the world of businessthrough the female perspective.
So Tina is going to talk alittle bit about her experience.
Hopefully, her organization,queens and Tina, is also
recently an award winner, sowe're going to touch on that as
well.
So welcome Tina.
(02:36):
I'm so glad that you could makethe time to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Thank you so much.
It's definitely an honor to behere, yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Louisiana is in the house.
So can you tell us, tina, howyou got involved in your
organization?
I think before that, I guess.
Tell us about your traffickingexperience.
And then I want to ask you somequestions.
You know how you evolved fromthere to be successful and to be
(03:08):
able to give back like you'redoing.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Sure sure.
I actually entered thetrafficking at about 14 years
old.
My father was in an outlawmotorcycle club, my mother was a
psychic.
It was a very dysfunctionalhome.
I was being abused and I ranaway from home and I went to New
(03:33):
Orleans and of course somebodywas able to get me an ID.
I was kind of well developed for14 year old and I started
dancing on Bourbon Street and Imet this guy that was in the
Dixie Mafia and during that timethis was the late 70s there
were brothels all throughout thestate of Louisiana, in like the
(03:57):
deep swamp areas.
The Dixie Mafia ran that state,mississippi and a few others,
and they called them lockupjoints.
And so this man brought me toone of these lockup joints where
I stayed for about three yearsand we were there.
(04:19):
It was just like it was abrothel, and when people came in
we lined up, they picked oneand it was very, very traumatic.
I was kind of hard headed inthose days and so my trafficker
was called often to correct me,and often they correct me in
front of all the other girls,and it was just a really
(04:44):
traumatic time for me.
And then I went on from thatOnce we got out of the brothels,
he brought me into his bar,where he caught me one night
doing drugs with a client, andhe beat me unconscious and left
me in an alley for dead.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Let me back up a little bit.
So I am not aware of DixieMafia, so I'm assuming that this
is a criminal enterprise thatoperates around Louisiana area.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yes, ma'am, it's a criminal operation that operates
in the southern states.
Actually, there was a movieabout a sheriff who got rid of
some of them, called WalkingTall, back in the day.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Oh, I'm familiar with that movie, this lockup or what
did you call it?
They?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
called it a lockup joint.
It's kind of interesting andwhat the title of my book is is
when you got ready to go to workbecause you'd go home for 10
days and then they bring youhome for a couple of days and
take you shopping and party andall of that, and then they bring
you back and they'd say come on, let's go to the country.
And these locations were securein very small towns throughout
(06:03):
Louisiana.
Generally they had a bar in thefront, they had a back room,
poker room, and then they hadlittle rooms in the back where
the girls worked out of.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, I had never heard of that.
Do you suspect that some ofthose things exist still today?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I suspect maybe in a few of the remote areas in
Louisiana there may be somethinglike that still in existence.
I know the trafficking teamhere works closely in those
areas and they recently openedup a program in a rural area.
So I don't have the T, so tospeak, but I believe that.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, I mean it seems like, since it's all about the
money, it seems like that wouldstill exist in some form or
fashion.
So you were 14, you got caughtup in this situation.
Then how long were you a victimof this type of sex trafficking
or exploitation?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, I actually was in the life, as they call it,
for about 30 years, for a reallylong time.
From that time I was able toescape this man and I went to
Dallas, texas, and I met myfirst trafficker that worked
(07:29):
girls on the street and I gotinto what they call street game
and I became addicted to crackcocaine and so, as a result, I
kind of, you know, went fromtrafficker to trafficker,
thinking in my sit traumatizedmind that maybe one of these got
(07:50):
one of these men were going tohelp me overcome my drug
addiction.
But what happened was nothinglike that.
I stayed until, and so,literally in 1992, I got
pregnant while I was out workingand I got away from that for a
little while and then I had thebaby.
(08:13):
My sister ended up adopting theyoung man and he actually works
in in trafficking now.
He's a great, he's a great kidand we've reunited and I'm
really, really proud of himright now.
And then I, as I tried to getmyself together, I really had
not overcame all the trauma thatI mean I had been beat and
(08:36):
mercy was locked, locked away.
A lot of things really happenedto me, traumatic in those
situations, and so I attemptedto get married.
That didn't work.
I left my husband and went backto my, to my trafficker, and I
I would try.
You know, I started learningmarketing, I learned graphic
(08:56):
design, I went to work for aCajun chef down here in
Louisiana and my husband passedaway.
And my husband passed away, Iwent to it back in the life and
I really just bounced back andforth in the life, from the
square world, as we call it, toback in the life, because I
(09:18):
really hadn't addressed thedemons that were inside of me.
Yeah, it wasn't really until Iwas 50 years old that those
demons were addressed.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
But I mean, this is this type of exploitation of sex
trafficking from 14 on seemsvery familiar to me.
This is what I know most aboutin in in.
People are still looking forthat caricature, that cartoon
(09:50):
version of some kid get snatchedinto a white van.
As you know, whatever it is,they believe.
But the exploitation, themanipulation, the vulnerability,
the needing someone to help youwho exploited you from 14 years
old in Louisiana and in thoseback areas to them, somebody who
(10:16):
exploited you after you ranfrom there on on the streets and
street prostitution, and thetrauma Thank you leading to the
use of drugs or alcohol.
And if you're not taking careof that trauma, addressing that
trauma, it starts to resurfacein various aspects of your life.
(10:43):
And this seems to be a lot ofthe common progression of what
we see in the US as sextrafficking.
So how did you get to a pointwhere you wanted to get either
(11:04):
drugs and alcohol treatment oryou wanted to get out of the
game?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Well, you know, I had drug and alcohol treatment many
times.
I actually went to 17 drugrehabs and each time that I went
to drug rehab it was alwayscaught the 12 steps and do this.
You know like you gotta go tomeetings, you gotta do this.
(11:29):
You gotta like work your steps.
We'll worry about thepsychological stuff later.
You need to address youraddiction first, and that was
not what I needed.
I needed somebody to address mytrauma before I could even look
at my addiction problems.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Hey, I wanna break into this episode for a moment.
I wanna remind you thatsurvivors of sex trafficking
experience trauma as a result.
Trauma-informed care issomething we learn so that we
don't retraumatize victims.
However, trauma-informed carewill not lower someone's trauma.
We have survivors that need toheal inside.
(12:07):
Most quality direct serviceworkers connect survivors to
needed services like healthcare,housing, legal services and
more, but these services, whilenecessary, won't address the
internal trauma.
Even when we connect them totrauma treatment counselors,
they spend about an hour a weekaddressing traumas that have
(12:30):
taken over their entire lives.
They need so much more.
Connecting someone in neededhousing won't fix the brokenness
inside.
Arresting their traffickerallows them justice, but it
won't heal the internal pain.
Linking them to a lawyer won'ttake them to a place of
reclaiming their freedom andexperiencing genuine joy.
(12:53):
Walking alongside survivors toprovide support, nurturing love,
kindness and to build arelationship is critical, but
they also need the tools toregain the power, choice and
voice internally.
Healing the internal painrequires survivors to do the
(13:14):
internal work.
I've worked with and studied theissue for almost 30 years.
I recently wrote a bookoutlining the 12 journeys that
survivors need to go on to healthe trauma and to live the life
they truly wanna live.
I'd love to train you to be agroup facilitator, leading
survivors toward the internalhealing they need.
(13:35):
The training is the TNTSurvivors Journey Group.
Let me train you to facilitatethese important groups and put
survivors on their path toliving the life they want and
experience the freedom and joythey deserve.
To learn more, go to my websitesilyawaymsoncom and watch the
(13:56):
free webinar to learn more aboutthe course.
I look forward to training youand helping you help survivors
to heal.
And now on with the podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And so it began the cycle of going back and forth
and I see women my age that hadthe same experience.
I do hear some they areaddressing trauma now in
treatment centers, but not allof them.
There's still a lot of 12 stepbased treatment centers.
(14:30):
And look, I always honored the12 steps in the program because
it helped me get on my feet.
It gave me the community Ineeded.
But let's face it, thosesponsors and other people in
those organizations they're notprofessionals and they're not
equipped to deal with trauma.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more because and the
program that you went to thatactually focused on trauma.
I mean, that's even so rarebecause but people are talking
about trauma informed care.
That just means I'm informedthat you have trauma.
(15:11):
That doesn't translate into I'mhelping you heal your trauma,
just because I know you havetrauma.
So this is where we are, atleast people.
Some people can use the wordsbut, yeah, they have yet to know
what they mean and develop sometype of program.
(15:32):
So when you spend a yearcompleting your trauma program,
what tell us what that was about?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Well, and actually at the age of about 45, my
trafficker had actually sent meto school to learn digital
marketing so that we could putthe girls on the web.
And I was at a porn conventionand I met this beautiful person,
Annie LaBeurre, and she had aprogram called Destiny House and
(16:05):
I met her at the pornconvention.
So, fast forward about anotheryear.
I was just miserable.
I could not stay.
I had all this opportunitybecause I had all this knowledge
and this professional ability,but I couldn't function in a
professional environment.
And, Annie, not only was Ispiritually renewed, I also
(16:30):
began EMDR.
Emdr changed my life.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
And describe that, because there's a lot of
research.
And just let me for one secondsay that you know I want to
revisit trauma-informed care.
That just tells you.
I know you have trauma.
If I haven't done anything, Ijust didn't re-harm you, didn't
re-trigger you, but in order toheal, EMDR has had some great
(17:02):
results in terms of research, soI'm so glad you brought that up
.
Tell us a little bit about EMDR.
What is it and actually whatdid you do?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
So EMDR is built up around specific trauma points.
So it starts with a lot oftalking therapy and the
therapist identifies certaintraumatic events that happen
during the course of your life.
Then you reprocess those.
So in the first time that I hadEMDR they used because I could
(17:35):
not typically EMDRs use eyemovement.
It means eye movement, thesyntha-sentation sorry bad
pronunciation Reprocessing yeah.
Reprocessing bad pronunciation.
I joke around.
Sometimes I say that justbecause I'm a redneck.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
That's okay, I love this accent, but go ahead.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
But so they used vibration.
So I had these little pods thatwere vibration pods and I'd
alternate them in my hands orunder my thigh, I would begin to
talk about it and the vibrationwould change intensity at
(18:19):
different points.
Then what happens is that theyask you to recognize what your
body is feeling.
So, as your body is feelingmore, even based on different
vibration, which is differenttoday, I still do EMDR.
I'm on my second round of.
EMDR.
(18:39):
When I got successful, I had abunch of things come up that I
wasn't equipped to deal with andwe could talk about that later.
But now I do EMDR with eyemovement.
You actually pinpoint thedirection that you're looking at
and you go by the cues in yourbody on how your body feels.
(19:02):
So maybe looking to the leftthe feeling may be real intense
and then maybe when you get tothe right the feeling might die
down some.
So they work on the body andthe brain.
It's really fantastic,fascinating science, but it
works.
It's literally changed my life.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And so, when you're either using the vibration or
the rapid eye movement, are youthinking about like a
traumatizing experience at thattime, or what are you asked to
think about?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, you think about the traumatizing experience and
they basically bring you to thehighest level of that
traumatizing experience and thenuse the eye movement to bring
you down.
So in the future, when youthink about that, the feelings
are more level and you're notexperiencing these highs and
(19:59):
these lows, but you'reexperiencing a more level
vibrational area that your bodyand your brain can deal with
more appropriately.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And so is there ever a time when you recall this
memory and your stress oremotion or body's reaction is
high that you can bring yourselfdown.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yes, I was actually taught, and I remember this,
back in those days I was in LasVegas, I had graduated from the
program and I was in a soberliving house and driving around,
and I drive around Las Vegasand I'd see things that would
trigger me, and so what I woulddo is I would hit my knee on the
inside of the car door inrhythm and it would bring me
(20:46):
down and it would keep me,basically because I would go in
these areas, because I thought Iwas curious about what was
going on and it basically keptme clean, kept me from using
drugs under medication.
Nowadays, actually, there's aYouTube video with the ball
moving back and forth and I doEMDR myself all the time when I
(21:10):
get over, stressed and so youuse the tool that you were
taught for your own self care.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I think that's awesome, and for you it was.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
you had to address the trauma first, then the
substance use issue, and it'sexactly, and I and I addressed
the trauma initially inside of aenvironment where I was very
highly supervised, where Istayed for a year at Destiny
House and I moved on to soberliving and continued EMDR as I
(21:46):
was out in the world, which wasparticularly healthy for me.
It was a lot, it was help, itwas helpful to be able to have
those world day to day triggerscome up and be able to handle
them by myself and learn selfcare and learn how to take care
of myself.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I mean, I think that's so much rooted in there
as you know, regaining yourpower, choice and voice, because
you knew, even though they weresaying oh no, you got to take
your substance use issue first.
You knew yourself and you knewyour body and you knew what you
needed, and I think that levelof empowerment is really amazing
(22:31):
and being intuitive enough inyourself to say this is the
route I need to take.
So you and Tina, you are also,before we talk about the Queens,
I want to mention that you'rean award winner, so do you want
to tell the listeners?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
how much?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
you've won this award .
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Well, you know, I've been in digital marketing for
quite some time almost 20 yearsbasically, between relapses for
many, many years.
But I affectionately, later inmy career, became known as
Mamati and when I started theQueens, I started this
organization, queens, to empowerwomen, and in order to explain
(23:19):
the award, I have to kind ofexplain the concept of Queens.
And so the concept of Queens forme is that internet marketing,
affiliate marketing, performancemarketing it's a male dominated
field and I would repeatedlywatch, and most of the
networking is done in a tradeshow environment.
So every time I would go to atrade show, I'd see a lot of the
(23:41):
pretty girls would be hired forthe trade show booth, and they
would hire girls fresh out ofcollege and she was basically
being used as clickbait, andthen, once the customer came to
the booth, the guys wouldquickly jump up and the young
lady would rarely get part ofthe.
(24:02):
You know a little bit of thedeal.
She would not get compensatedthe same way that the male
counterpart was compensated.
And so the reason for creatingQueens is that I wanted to
empower these women and I wantedto give them a safe place to
network.
So we started doing trade showevents where we'd have private
(24:24):
meeting rooms are, and we alsohave cocktail parties where the
women could get together,facebook groups, skype groups
where women can network witheach other, and this was
considered a humanitarian effortin the affiliate marketing,
performance marketing arena, andso it was awarded the IP
(24:46):
because of humanitarian,humanitarian contributions.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, I love that.
I love like I said, I loved itthe name Queens.
I love that you are supportiveof women who use their beauty as
part of their work and thereare so many professions where
this takes place, right so, butyou empower them to be able to
(25:16):
take control, to be able to beadequately compensated, to be
able to reclaim their power interms of their profession and
what they do.
So how long have you operated,queens?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Queens started in 2021.
I opened my own internetmarketing agency in 2020 with a
business partner right in themiddle of COVID.
Okay, I like that Okay, rightin the middle of COVID.
But and it's definitely been ajourney, but I had the idea for
(25:53):
Queens.
I do a lot of travel andparticularly flight booking,
which is a vertical in ourindustry, and so one day this
guy called me the queen offlight booking and that was just
a joke.
For a little while I was thequeen of flight booking and then
he saw me at a conference andhe said there's the queen of
paper call.
Well, paper call is the type ofadvertising that we do and I
(26:16):
really had thought to myself andI'm like I'm not the only queen
here, there's lots of queenshere and the idea just kept
brewing and kept brewing and welaunched our first event at the
Las Vegas Affiliate Summit andwe chartered.
My company, Ringlad Media,hosted an event on the high
(26:39):
roller wheel and so we had allthe women come and join on the
high roller.
There's actually pictures onour website of all the events
where we get together andnetwork with one another, but
that was our first event andit's just moved rapidly since
then.
It's really grown quickly.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
That's so cool.
And with your digital company,do you still take on clients?
Just that in general.
Do you still have a thing.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
It's more specifically to performance,
marketing and lead generation.
So our company acts asbasically a broker.
So we have media buyers andadvertisers media buyers on one
side, advertisers on the otherside and so I take the results
of these media buyers and I sellthem to call centers in
(27:35):
different industries likeinsurance, home improvement,
home services, internet, tv andflight booking and travel, hotel
bookings.
Just a lot of differentindustries.
Oh, that's it.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
And you said you got started because the trafficker
wanted you to learn how tobetter his business.
But actually you took this andyou spend it and actually
benefited.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
became a pretty good career for you Exactly exactly,
and that's why I'm so driven tohelp other women to do that as
well.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So, tina, tell me a lot of listeners, their
advocates, they want to do theright thing, they want to do the
best thing that they canpossibly do to fight against
human trafficking.
Do you have any advice for themin general, or any advice for
women?
(28:38):
Sometimes we are a little morehesitant to jump out there and
start our own businesses andshine.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I think you have to know your worth number one.
If you don't understand thetrue value of yourself as a
woman, then it's really hard tomake yourself bigger, because
that's what it takes.
It takes making yourself biggerthan all of the other forces
around you.
It starts with, and so now Ihave this new initiative that we
(29:14):
just started with Queens and Ihad a local digital marketing
training academy that trainsmedia buyers to offer me five
scholarships for humantrafficking survivors to go
through the program.
What we've done is we'vematched these survivors with
mentors, these professionalwomen in our organization, with
(29:38):
these human traffickingsurvivors as they go through
this digital marketing trainingand hopefully become
entrepreneurs as a result ofthis.
And for survivors, this offersthem the opportunity to be
remote.
When working with girls andworking with women in human
(29:59):
trafficking, it's reallyimportant to notice what
triggers them.
So you have a woman and you'vesent her to school and she's
went to college and she's gotthis fantastic job and she just
can't make it.
She keeps going from job to job.
I did the same thing.
I could not handle corporatelife.
(30:20):
I could not handle somebodytelling me what to do.
People would be ugly, like theyalways are, and I would get
triggered and then I would blowup and then I would walk out,
and it was this cycle and itwasn't until I really embraced
in 2017.
I went completely remote longbefore COVID.
(30:44):
The other thing that I tellsurvivors that are coming on is
to use those transferable skills.
We had natural survival skillsout there.
We knew what to say, went tosay it, how to say it, to
achieve the desired result.
Well, you can take those verysame skills and bring them into
(31:06):
the professional world and bevery successful, because we know
when we were out there, wefought hard and hustled hard to
make sure that we got what ittook to keep to really avoid a
beating, and so we built thisnatural drive and this natural
(31:27):
hustle and so use that to yourability in order to achieve your
dreams.
And I heard the podcast thatyou did with Polaris and the
survivors the survivor study Ithink it was called In Hormes
Way and in that survivor studythey talked about this place
(31:52):
where survivors are rescued,they're emotionally stabilized
and they often programs andfacilities often fall short on
propelling a woman to a placewhere she can succeed, which is
the whole goal of what I'm doingwith Queens and the Queens
Arise Digital ScholarshipProgram.
(32:15):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
That is empowering, that is using someone's
strengths.
Some people can say why did Igo through this?
How can this be useful?
Well, it probably made someonevery empathetic, but those
(32:44):
skills being able to readsomeone, because your life could
depend on it, being able toassess them, being able to
understand your environment andhow to stay safe All of those
things are what you talked aboutbeing transferable.
So I thank you so much forrecognizing that survivors need
(33:07):
to become thrivers.
They need to becomeeconomically successful, they
need to address their trauma.
These are things that manypeople don't talk about.
They want to raise awareness.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
They want to rescue you, which is awesome, and they
want to raise awareness.
But it's so important to bringthe survivor to a point where
she can live comfortably, whereshe can have financial security,
where she can take care of herfamily in a safe environment.
So what better of safeenvironment than in your home?
(33:46):
And a lot of women they go backto trafficking because they
cannot support themselves.
They end up in a minimum wagejob I caught working at
Walgreens and you just can'tmake it that way and so they
start thinking about maybe if Ijust go to the hospital, maybe
if I just did this one littledeal.
And then, as soon as they getout there, of course the
(34:09):
traffickers are out therewaiting for them and they're
re-exploited over and over againand I feel like I've done well
for my life.
At 58 years old, I bought myfirst house.
I recently and this is and Ilike I brag about this, but the
significant of it is I justbought my first luxury car.
(34:32):
I bought a Lexus and it's in myname, it's not in some
traffickers name that he lets medrive.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Oh, I love it I just love it.
It's in my name Right and thankyou, welcome to the club.
I have Lexus too first one everin my life as well, yes, and I
think you deserve it, queen.
So thank you, queen, tina, andthank you for making those women
take their crown that's beenlaying over there on the ground
(35:04):
and you're telling them in allkinds of ways put that crown on
your head and wear it well.
So thank you so much, tina, foryour time and thank you for
what you do.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been great conversation.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
That was Tina Dixon.
Please look her up.
She is amazing and doingamazing work and if you need her
professional services, pleaseuse survivors, use drivers, use
their companies, use theirbusiness.
Spend your money in places thatmake your money.
(35:42):
Speak for you, queen Tina.
I love it.
So I looked up the definitionof queen.
It says a female ruler of anindependent state, an
independent state.
She is operating as a free,independent agent.
(36:05):
It also says a queen, accordingto the game of chess, is the
most powerful piece on the table.
Why?
Because the queen is able tomove in any direction
unobstructed.
So I wish you nothing butsuccess, queen Tina, and all the
(36:28):
queens that work with you.
Until next time the fightcontinues.
Let's not just do something,let's do the best thing.
If you like this episode ofEmancipation Nation, please
subscribe and I'll send you theweekly podcast.
Until then, the fight continues.
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