September 26, 2023 • 33 mins
Have you ever stopped to consider the psychological impact of constantly dealing with trauma on those who work tirelessly to help others? Melissa Kaiser, an established social worker and North Dakota’s first human trafficking navigator, takes us on a revealing journey into the world of compassion fatigue and secondary trauma, a world she navigates daily in her fight against human trafficking. Melissa unveils how incessantly being exposed to other's trauma can lead to a debilitating erosion of compassion, empathy, and trust, ultimately shifting one's worldview.
As we walk with Melissa through her experiences, she sheds light on her critical role in the Emancipation Nation Network. Her passion for education drives her to create a course aimed at equipping those in the anti-trafficking community with the necessary skills and knowledge to combat trafficking effectively. She emphasizes the importance of fostering open dialogues about compassion fatigue within teams.
Finally, we delve into the importance of also understanding secondary trauma and the need for deep self-care, reflection, and adjustment in such a demanding field. This episode is a heartfelt reminder of the importance of mental wellbeing, humor, and community.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You know the why human trafficking work is needed
To fight for the freedom ofmodern day slaves.
But love, passion, commitmentisn't all you need to be an
effective and successfulanti-trafficking advocate.
Learn the how.
I'm Dr Celia Williamson,director of the Human
Trafficking and Social JusticeInstitute at the University of
(00:23):
Toledo.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation podcast, where I'll
provide you with the latest andbest methods, policy and
practice discussed byexperienced experts in the field
, so that you can cut throughthe noise, save time and be
about the work of saving lives.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation.
I'm Dr Celia Williamson.
This is episode 192.
(00:45):
Today I have with me MelissaKaiser.
She was the first humantrafficking navigator hired for
Eastern North Dakota and wasemployed with the Bureau of
Criminal Investigations as avictim witness specialist.
Melissa assisted in creatingthe integrated victim services
and law enforcement program forNorth Dakota and facilitated a
(01:09):
multidisciplinary team for sixyears.
And so today we have Melissawith us and I know she's very
busy, but today she's going tobe talking to us about
compassion, fatigue andsecondary trauma.
So welcome, melissa.
I'm so happy you could maketime to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Thank you, happy to be here and happy to be involved
with your conference and justall of the things you do on your
network.
I love the information andstaying connected with everybody
.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, and you are so busy, but you're busy doing the
critical work and that part ofthat is really taking care of
the providers, taking care ofthe caregivers.
That's so important because weforget to take care of ourselves
, we don't prioritize ourselves.
(02:02):
So can you talk to us a littlebit about compassion?
Fatigue, I mean, what?
Even?
What is it?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, well, it's interesting because I, like you
said, I'm busy with now, kind ofgraduating on to what I say is
like help the helpers.
I've been a social worker for12 years.
I worked in various differentareas of social work and when I
was in North Dakota I workedwith victims and survivors those
six years too.
But when I started reallyfacilitating and working with
(02:34):
these teams across the state iswhen I learned about compassion
fatigue and what that means insecondary trauma, because I
started to see the work impactnot only social workers that I
worked with for various years,but now I'm working with a team
and I'm seeing, you know, theyouth service providers are
affected, law enforcement, ourmedical personnel, are
prosecutors on our team and so Ijust thought like, wow, we are,
(02:56):
you know, whether positive ornegative, we are really impacted
by the work.
And so I dug into it more, Ibecame certified in a few things
and with that I really learnedwhat we do as providers is often
called everything burnout, likeI'm so burnt out, and sometimes
that's true, but what I havefound with those of us in this
(03:17):
type of work is it's more oftencompassion fatigue, secondary
traumatic stress and or PTSD orpost traumatic stress disorder.
So really, the difference beingthat compassion fatigue is
literally what it sounds likeYou're eroded of your compassion
, your empathy is completelystrained from constantly hearing
(03:40):
about the trauma of others.
And it's like we get into thiswork, we're really passionate,
we're really excited about it,and then it gets kind of
monotonous of constantly hearingall these horrific things that
we start to get impatient andirritable and we kind of lose
our passion and our empathy isso eroded we just have none left
to give.
So then unfortunately, ourclients and the victims and
(04:02):
survivors we work with sufferbecause we're not in a good
place mentally, right, and nowthey're not getting the care
they need, because they come tous and they can just see like we
don't want to be there andthat's what compassion fatigue
does to us.
It's not that we don't, butwe're not in a space to provide
that care to the best of ourability because we're not in a
good space mentally, emotionally, ourselves.
(04:23):
So in a really long nutshell,that's breaking down what just
specifically compassion fatigueis and kind of why I wanted to
get into it more and help again.
Help the helper.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
And what's secondary trauma?
Is that different thancompassion fatigue?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yes.
So secondary trauma is thinkingabout what happens over time in
the work that we do, where nowyour worldview starts to shift.
So maybe you start to actuallyhave some bias or some
stereotypes or you see the worlddifferently.
For example, working intrafficking for so long, I've
(05:00):
also helped law enforcement fora long time and, as we all know,
in this work 99% of theoffenders are males and I've
learned over time that I don'ttrust men and that's a really
irrational.
I know when I'm in a good spaceI can trust there are some safe
, really great men in this world.
But again, the secondary traumais that worldview shift where
(05:23):
now I have this nature of alwaysquestioning males, always
questioning males when I seethem with children.
Unfortunately, when I wasgetting a divorce I was in the
work as well, and then trying todate again I found was really
bleeding over into my work lifetoo, because it was like how do
I trust men?
How do I know they're notaddicted to porn?
(05:43):
How do I know that they haven'tpurchased someone for sex?
I just could not shut that off.
And so that's really thedifference.
For an example of secondarytrauma is those intrusive,
invasive thoughts, yourworldview shift.
You just have those changes inhow you see things and sometimes
it can be positive in the senseof like it helps keep you safer
(06:05):
because of your vigilance forthe world, but it kind of turns
into like hypervigilance, whereyou can't relax and some of
those invasive, intrusivethoughts.
As an example, I have a sixmonth old daughter now and
unfortunately, sometimes when Ichange her diaper I think about
the things I've seen in my joband I know a colleague that had
that same experience and soagain, those intrusive, invasive
(06:28):
thoughts and those types ofmoments that we don't always
realize is also secondary trauma.
So it's really just shiftingthe way we see things.
And one more example, if it'srelatable for people, is I
played in a softball tournamentonce and I use this example all
the time and it is a place wherepeople really let their guard
(06:50):
down.
They have fun.
After your games.
You drink beer and I remembersitting down after my game and I
cracked a beer with my team andI looked around because it's
just a party of people and myfirst thought was how many girls
are going to get raped heretonight?
And that's a perfect example,unfortunately, of secondary
trauma.
It's that worldview shift ofsomeone in a profession outside
(07:12):
of this work would probably notbe thinking that and so asking
ourselves where is thathappening internally?
Because that can add tocompassion, fatigue, that can
add to burnout, but it couldalso cause PTSD if it continues
to really impact our dailyfunctioning.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Wow, I've never heard I don't think such a clear
explanation of each one of thoseand the differences between
each one of those.
And just thinking of my ownexperience as well, I could
relate to that secondary trauma.
I have a 7 and 1 half month oldgrandson who those are my first
(07:51):
thoughts there you will not goto daycare, you will not.
Everybody mails our potentialperpetrators.
Anybody is a potential sexualabuser.
Until I rule you out.
I mean.
That is another good example ofa tilted, slanted worldview
(08:14):
Because, yeah, until I rule youout, you are ruled in, and so
that is not a good way to lookat the world.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I know, and that's what's.
I'm so glad you brought that up, because on one hand, like I
said, sometimes it can be quoteunquote good because you feel
safe, or you're aware of theworld differently than other
people, or you know that justbecause someone seems safe
doesn't mean they're safe.
And to add to how relatablewhat you're saying is, my 6
month old is babysat in my homeby her grandparents, because I
(08:45):
too, with the daycare thing,it's just part of the work and
how we've shifted.
So, yes, you clearly relate,I'm sure in many other ways too.
You could think of too just howover many years things impact
you differently.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And I think there are many listeners that probably
are green or maybe they have adifferent example.
But yes, that's exactly true,and if the listeners could see
me today, they would know that Ibabysit my grandchild because
you will not be babysat byanyone else.
Yeah, because of the worldview,and so because of that some
(09:22):
things have slipped and I get itEven in real.
So it sort of gives us a littlemore empathy in two fronts that
poor person like ourselveswhose worldview has been slanted
there's some stress with thatand also we can have some
(09:44):
empathy for that crass personwho may be at our collaborative
meeting, our team meeting, whois saying horrible things or has
a disposition that's prettynasty, and sometimes we don't
have a lot of compassion forthat person.
We're like well, you shouldcare about people and you don't
care about people.
So we have some feelings aboutyou and instead of looking at,
(10:09):
perhaps they did care, perhapsthey gave it all and now they
are suffering with compassionfatigue.
And if we have, let's say, acolleague like that not only
ourselves, but if we have acolleague like that, is there
anything that we can do?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I'm so glad you brought that up Because, like I
said in the beginning, themultidisciplinary team is where
I started noticing exactly whatyou just said.
And yes, there are things wecan do, I think, on a more
personal level.
If you see that in a meeting,do you have a relationship?
Or is it worth it to establisha relationship with your team
member to call them and say, hey, I noticed today maybe you were
(10:49):
a little more cynical ornegative or you weren't being as
person-centered, trauma,informed as you usually are, but
just checking in one-on-one oreven grabbing coffee with them
and saying let's just gettogether one-on-one and see how
the work is going and justsaying are you OK?
I notice these things.
I know you really care and arepassionate about the work, but I
(11:09):
didn't see that yesterday.
But it's more important that Icheck in to make sure you're OK.
However, I know you care aboutthe work and your clients and so
we have to be in a better placeand, however you want to have
that conversation, you know thatperson best.
I think there's another way tolook at it.
Is it so crucial to be agentsof change in our community?
(11:29):
A lot of us, probably listeningtoday, would agree with that
Part of it is okay.
Can we sit down with our teamand talk about this concept and
say, like, as a team, this isimportant and maybe let's also
bring it back to our agencies?
It's a normalized thing that wecan just start to be
comfortable talking about andrecognizing where it's not so
(11:51):
like, oh my God, what was wrongwith so-and-so today, like that
was not okay.
Or a lot of times there is sometoxicity in our work because we
are burnt out and then insteadof fixing it, it's kind of
getting blameful and negativeand frustrated with that person
Not understanding there might bea lot more going on underneath.
So my second thing is how canwe be agents of change?
(12:11):
How can, as a team, wenormalize the conversation, and
then that might bleed back intoeveryone's own agencies.
So, as a facilitator, I used totalk about that in meetings, or
I would send out resources to myteam on human trafficking, but
also I'd say, hey, here'ssomething to focus on taking
care of yourself too.
So it's something that you canjust organically add into that
(12:32):
conversation.
Vulnerability helps, maybe evencoming to a meeting and saying,
hey, I'm sorry, I was reallystruggling with how the works
impacted me and I didn'tinteract well with so-and-so
yesterday and I feel bad.
They're a client.
I would never want to do that.
So even having those own momentsto bring to your team so they
understand like, oh, this isnormal, I think reminding people
(12:54):
that therapists have therapists, because we forget that even
those of us in the work can gethelp and also need to process
feelings and emotions and thethings we struggle with, because
we get compassionate fatigue,because we care, we're not, it's
not we're doing something wrong, it's we care about people.
So we have to assume that we'regoing to be impacted when
(13:14):
they're not well and that's okay.
So that was a very long-windedanswer, but there's just so much
we can do to normalize itwithin our team and within those
one-on-one relationships wehave.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, I love the idea of purposefully and
intentionally holding space inthe team meeting to discuss that
, because you know we've beentrained, socialized, to come to
the meeting and be professional.
But in your work you do careabout what you do, so why not
(13:47):
care enough to talk about it orto?
I love the idea of pullingsomebody aside, going to have
coffee and just sharing spacewith them and allowing them to
vent.
Maybe you don't have the answerand I don't even know if you
should have the answer, butallowing people to vent Once you
understand your team.
(14:09):
You know I have a team and welike to say you know, like, if I
understand your heart, thenwhat comes out of your mouth
sometimes isn't pretty, butsometimes the ugliness needs to
come out.
It needs to come out among safepeople.
I understand your heart, Iunderstand your intention, but I
(14:29):
also understand that you'refrustrated with this.
You can't stand this person.
You know, today I cannot takeone more thing from this person
and it's like it doesn't takeaway from the fact that you're
in the work and we understandyour heart, and so I think you
know that the work that you dois so important and it's like
(14:53):
you have to keep remindingpeople about that.
So you're creating a course forus, actually, of the
Emancipation Nation Network andonline community and we're
starting actual full courses tohelp people increase their
skills, increase their knowledge, and so one of the courses that
(15:16):
you're creating for us, can youtalk about that for a minute?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yes, I'm so excited.
I just finished my lastrecording yesterday and I just
put a lot of time and effortinto it because it's so
important.
And there's worksheet I hatethe word worksheets, but there's
, you know, for lack of betterwords kind of worksheets with
each section of it too, sopeople can bring that back to
their agencies or to their homesand just say, hey, let's just
(15:42):
ponder these ideas or theseactivities.
But I did one real quickoverview I think it's a 30
minute overview of just what is,you know, burnout versus
compassion, fatigue.
You know all the stuff we'retalking about.
And then the next phase goesinto a 90 minute introduction to
the idea and what do we do, howdo we take care of ourselves,
what are some strategies?
(16:02):
And then after that I have, Ithink, two other 40 minute ones.
One is on individuals.
So now, okay, now we can focusjust internally.
You know, what can we work on,what can we assess about
ourselves and what can we do?
And then the other one is onrelationships not just your
partner or your friends, that'salso your family.
(16:25):
So kind of, how is what we doevery day impacting our
relationships and what do we doabout that?
And then the third one it's alittle over an hour is more on
your organization, so how tomake culture change within the
organization.
And then, if you're a leader,you know in a supervisor role,
there's also some tidbits inthere about how you, as a leader
, should and can make changeswithin your organization.
(16:47):
So in a nutshell, it's a.
I think five videos and so manyresources probably too many,
but that's the goal.
Is there something foreverybody there?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, and I think if you really care about the work,
if you really wanna make adifference in people's lives,
the way to do that is to takecare of yourself, because you
role model that, you mentor thatIf everybody sees you empty in
your bucket all the time goinghome to some of the crazy people
(17:19):
you live with and they'resupposed to fill your bucket but
they might be empty in yourbucket as well you walk it
around with empty buckets.
I mean pretty soon you havenothing to give and you also
mentor to the little ones thatlook up to you that they should
do the same thing.
So it's so important to takecare of yourself.
(17:42):
Now, on the network EmancipationNation Network, you can go in
there for free.
There are phase one, we call it, where you can take a.
You know, just watch a bunch ofvideos on critical topics for
free.
Phase two is gonna go a littlebit more in depth still free,
and really you'd be good.
(18:03):
But if you go into phase three,those are full blown courses.
We are going to charge you forthose courses because we bring
experts like Melissa to thetable who use her time and
energy and expertise to walk youhand in hand, teaching you how
to take care of yourself in yourworkplace, at your home, just
(18:27):
individually, and so thosecourses will be available for
you if you're interested.
Now, melissa, you do also ablog, so can you just talk about
that?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yes, and I look forward to getting back into it,
because since I've had mydaughter six months ago, I maybe
have wrote two blogs, butthere's tons and tons on there.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Good way to take care of yourself, by the way.
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I know, actually putting some boundaries in place
.
Who would have thought so?
The blog is really aself-development blog.
It's just concepts I've learnedthrough social work as well as
my job, things that just maybewe take for granted or we're not
mindful of, or just terminologywithin the social work field
that I'm like, wow, this is ahelpful concept when you really
(19:14):
break it down and I use a lot ofpersonal examples, so it's just
kind of food for thought.
No blog is more than a fiveminute read.
There's other sections on HappyThings Thursday where I just
talk about 10 quick things youcan read that hopefully brighten
your day or make you smile,that you can be more mindful of.
You know, it might be somethingas simple as like hitting all
(19:35):
the green lights on your way towork right.
It's just those little thingswe overlook that happen every
day, that when we're having arough day, maybe the next time
something like that happens toyou, you're like, oh yeah,
that's right, that is reallycool.
So it kind of actually goesright into that compassion
fatigue stuff, which isinteresting because I started
writing that blog before I evengot into this, so it was kind of
(19:56):
always there, just in adifferent way.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
That's so cool.
What you know, what I love todo, my personal thing is I'll
turn on TikTok for you know 10minutes or whatever, and I'll
just listen to a comedian saysomething crazy, and then I'll
just giggle and laugh and thenI'll just go into you know, my
next important meeting orwhatever.
Yes, but it reminds me that, ohyes, you know everything.
(20:24):
We take the issue seriously,but sometimes ourself.
Let's not take ourselves soseriously and let's just enjoy
some of the things that we canenjoy.
So, melissa, where do peoplefind this blog?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
So it's short for social work secrets and it's
SWsecretsnet.
And I also have a Facebook page.
That's a link on the bottom.
I have a link to all my socialmedia as well, if you want
updates on when those blogs areposted.
So, and then I'll post funnymemes on my social work Facebook
page too.
(21:00):
You know that I see on Instagramor whatever that are just very
relatable but to your point,make you laugh a little bit at
the work, and that's okay.
My partner happens to be in lawenforcement.
I talk about that a lot in myphase three curriculum.
And to your point about thecomedy, I love that you said
that.
(21:20):
Who doesn't have time for a fewminutes in between things just
to help?
You know, meetings are hard,cases are hard, and it just
takes a breather away from thatfor a minute.
So what we do at night is, ofcourse, watch documentaries
directly related to the type ofwork that we do, but then we're
not checking out.
We're always in work mode, andso that's what we do.
(21:42):
If we can't find something towatch, and we know that that's
what we're gonna end up doing,we're like stand up comedy.
Stand up comedy, go to Netflix.
I mean, there's so much onthere and that's kind of our
quick like nope, we're not doingthat tonight, and switch in
gears and, like you said, youcan watch it for 10 minutes, you
can watch it for three hoursand it's just something that's
relatable and it's easy to do.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
That's right, and it doesn't let you forget who you
really are deep down inside,because some of the things that
are so comical and so relatableand so real that this is
somebody talking to you aboutreal things, and so it can be
funny, it can be disarming, itcan be relaxing, and so, Melissa
(22:24):
, people want to get a hold ofyou.
Let's say they want to learnmore or ask a question, or they
want you to be a presenter,perhaps in their agency.
Are you open to doingcompassion, fatigue, secondary
trauma type presentations inagencies?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yes, I do that a lot.
I do it just as much as I dothe human trafficking training
and consulting.
So that is absolutely somethingI do over Zoom.
I travel in person, dependingon when and how and where, and
so I'm presenting I'm trying tothink well, at the Dallas Crimes
Against Children Conference,I'm presenting on
person-centered, trauma-informedinvestigations.
(23:04):
However, there's various onesthroughout Texas.
I'm presenting on compassionfatigue in the next few months
and then I've presented for youat your conference on this topic
several times too, and I willbe in September again.
So people can view a reallyshort 30 minute one, two, if
they would like to.
So, yes, people can get a holdof me through my email, which is
half my first name, half mylast name, which is Melissa
(23:27):
Kaiser.
So it's Melchai M-E-L-K-A-Iconsulting at gmailcom.
That would be the easiest.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, and I love that also that you have branched out
and you have a consultant.
I love to see social workersthat become empowered and say
I'm gonna offer my skills andtalents under a consulting label
.
I like that as well.
So how did you get to where youare in terms of consulting just
(23:58):
for people who are out thereand they think that they have to
spend all their time in anagency or working for an
institution?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, great question.
It happened in a way that, forme, pushed me to do it, which is
what it took.
So, to your point, I hope thatpeople maybe hear something like
this and feel like, oh, I canjust do it, I don't need to be
as pushed.
But I was working in NorthDakota in the human trafficking
field with an agency and afterbeing there for several years, I
(24:31):
did other human traffickingwork at a partnering agency and
then the human trafficking taskforce in North Dakota had
changed how they were hiringthose of us in the work and so
they said, hey, do you wannacome back and just consult under
the task force, be your ownboss, versus working for an
(24:52):
agency, and I was terrified todo it.
But the director is so good atempowering you and helping with
your strengths In terms ofleadership.
She's just excellent and I'vealways appreciated her guidance
because she's the one who reallygave me the push I needed and
she's like you can do this, it'sgreat.
So I did it through.
The North Dakota task force ishow I slowly started out doing
(25:14):
it, and it's not as intimidatingas people might think in terms
of getting a consulting labelunder your name, getting up and
running.
If you have a good financialperson to help you, it's cake.
It's so much easier than youthink.
And then it's really aboutnetworking.
So once I moved, I moved toFlorida and was able to branch
(25:34):
out more and just go to nationalconferences if I had some
funding available to do that butalso starting to present, using
the people that had seen mepresent as a reference, because
people know my work and theyworked with me for various years
.
So once you can get out thereand network and maybe you
already have a excuse me, a planfor that people that are
(25:55):
interested in consulting, maybethey kind of already know where
they would start and do that.
I mean you can even start yourLLC on the side and slowly get
into it until you build thatconfidence.
So I will say it's worth it.
It's a little stressful interms of starting out, thinking
like what do I do?
Where do I go, but there'salways people to help guide you
(26:16):
that have done it before.
I did it in the midst of movingand COVID and many other things
in my personal life that werenot in a good place and I was
still able to get up and runningno problem.
So you can do it, that's forsure.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Absolutely, and I talking about taking care of
yourself.
Maybe for some of you, this isa good way to take care of
yourself, to be able to shareyour gifts and talents with the
world without having thebureaucracy and the stress of an
agency or an institution.
I mean, I started a podcastbecause someone said have you
(26:52):
heard a podcast, what?
And they showed me.
I didn't even know how tolisten to a podcast.
So I started listening to a fewpodcasts and I thought, wow, I
could do that.
So I had no idea how to eat,what the equipment was, how to
eat it.
But that doesn't matter,because if you have learned your
(27:14):
job, if you have learned, thenyou know how to learn.
So it's not difficult.
If somebody else is doing it,look over at them and say, man,
if they're doing it, I certainlycan do.
So you know and consider it.
You know.
I think people a lot of timeslet fear Guide their lives and
(27:37):
great passion for yourself guideyour life.
So, melissa, where do we expectto see you?
Perhaps in the next three tofive years?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Well, my goal is to keep growing.
I've been at this Probablyabout two years now.
The first year I was still withthe North Dakota Task Force as
a consultant and for the lastyear so I've been on my own.
So my goal is to keep gettingmy name out there and help the
helpers however I can, and thatfor me, has been that.
That transition has been sorewarding.
(28:09):
People who say I don'tnecessarily know how to work
with a victim or survivor oftrafficking, or our team isn't
maybe person-centered traumainformed, we don't know how to
do an appropriate interview orinvestigation.
So just being able to help thepeople doing the good work has
been immensely rewarding.
So my goal is to keep gettingcontracting gigs to help, and I
(28:29):
do contract for secondary trauma.
Sometimes an organization justsays we need help.
We're, you know it's kind ofgotten really toxic here.
We have a high turnover orsomething horrific just happened
, you know, to a client we wereworking with and we don't really
know how to come back from that.
So there's just areas I love tohelp with and I just want to
keep growing.
I, my flexibility is great andMakes it easier to meet people
(28:54):
where they're at.
So hopefully you'll see me atmore conferences in the future
and just available on LinkedInand wanting to Do a lot more
spreading my blog and maybe evencreating my own videos on
LinkedIn and some of thosethings too.
So just growth, that's the maingoal.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yes, I love it, no fear.
Just all about the growth andthe love, and thank you so much,
melissa, for the time that youshared with us just to, and
congratulations on your baby.
I did not know we had.
Yes, well, you too yeah sevenmonths and a lot of my time.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I hear you because the important time.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So yes, it is but thank you so much again and I'm
sure we will talk again.
And I just encourage people togo to your blog, maybe use it
daily, this little five minutes,just to read something inspired
, to get you grounded.
So Do that.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Thank you for having me.
I'll see you all at theconference this year.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
That was Melissa Kaiser and she did come to our
20th annual International HumanTrafficking and Social Justice
Conference.
I recorded this right beforethe conference and Melissa's
blog is at SW like social workSW secrets net.
To get a hold of her is Mel Kaime L Ka I consulting dot com.
(30:24):
So how important are theseconcepts?
Compassion fatigue and I knowwe've seen people in our
collaborative meetings whenwe've met with people and they
just seem like they have losttheir compassion and we don't
think about compassion fatigueand we don't Think about them in
(30:45):
empathetic ways and we don'tthink about reaching out to them
and maybe we should.
And secondary trauma Is thataffecting your life?
It certainly has altered myreality in various ways.
So we know that we have to takecare of ourselves, but when we
(31:06):
think about self-care, we oftenthink about a bubble bath or
watching the game or whatever.
But doing some deep self-care,looking at our Potential for
compassion fatigue or, if wehave compassion fatigue,
secondary trauma Are weexperiencing that?
(31:26):
So how important are theseconcepts when it comes to living
a happy and and stress-free orminimally stressful life?
We talked about the EmancipationNation Network and it actually,
if you go to Google and type inEmancipation Nation Network.
(31:47):
You can become a member forfree.
There are over 1200Anti-trafficking advocates there
.
Once you get in there, there isa phase one that Offers you all
kinds of free webinars to fillin the gaps of maybe what you
may not know about humantrafficking.
(32:07):
Phase two goes a little more indepth in various areas that you
might be interested in, and sothere, if you look at module six
in phase two, you'll seeMelissa's webinar.
It's called an introduction tocompassion, fatigue and
secondary traumatic stress.
(32:28):
Go there, learn more Aboutthose two concepts.
It may change your life.
If you are interested, melissahas a course, a full course, to
take you from beginning to end,to hold your hand through and
Help you address Any compassionfatigue, secondary traumatic
(32:51):
stress.
The course is called the costof caring how to enjoy life
While balancing a high stressprofession.
Now that course is 399.
Go there if you're interestedin that course.
You know you may be saying toyourself oh my gosh, 399,
(33:12):
because you are again pushingyour needs off to the side To
take care of other people.
But the more you take care ofyourself, you not only mentor
that to others, but you willstay in this type of work longer
.
So please just consider ituntil next time.
(33:33):
The fight continues.
Let's not just do something,let's do the best thing.
If you like this episode ofEmancipation Nation, please
subscribe and I'll send you theweekly podcast.
Until then, the fight continues.
You know the why human trafficking work is needed
To fight for the freedom ofmodern day slaves.
But love, passion, commitmentisn't all you need to be an
effective and successfulanti-trafficking advocate.
Learn the how.
I'm Dr Celia Williamson,director of the Human
Trafficking and Social JusticeInstitute at the University of
(00:23):
Toledo.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation podcast, where I'll
provide you with the latest andbest methods, policy and
practice discussed byexperienced experts in the field
, so that you can cut throughthe noise, save time and be
about the work of saving lives.
Welcome to the EmancipationNation.
I'm Dr Celia Williamson.
This is episode 192.
(00:45):
Today I have with me MelissaKaiser.
She was the first humantrafficking navigator hired for
Eastern North Dakota and wasemployed with the Bureau of
Criminal Investigations as avictim witness specialist.
Melissa assisted in creatingthe integrated victim services
and law enforcement program forNorth Dakota and facilitated a
(01:09):
multidisciplinary team for sixyears.
And so today we have Melissawith us and I know she's very
busy, but today she's going tobe talking to us about
compassion, fatigue andsecondary trauma.
So welcome, melissa.
I'm so happy you could maketime to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Thank you, happy to be here and happy to be involved
with your conference and justall of the things you do on your
network.
I love the information andstaying connected with everybody
.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, and you are so busy, but you're busy doing the
critical work and that part ofthat is really taking care of
the providers, taking care ofthe caregivers.
That's so important because weforget to take care of ourselves
, we don't prioritize ourselves.
(02:02):
So can you talk to us a littlebit about compassion?
Fatigue, I mean, what?
Even?
What is it?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, well, it's interesting because I, like you
said, I'm busy with now, kind ofgraduating on to what I say is
like help the helpers.
I've been a social worker for12 years.
I worked in various differentareas of social work and when I
was in North Dakota I workedwith victims and survivors those
six years too.
But when I started reallyfacilitating and working with
(02:34):
these teams across the state iswhen I learned about compassion
fatigue and what that means insecondary trauma, because I
started to see the work impactnot only social workers that I
worked with for various years,but now I'm working with a team
and I'm seeing, you know, theyouth service providers are
affected, law enforcement, ourmedical personnel, are
prosecutors on our team and so Ijust thought like, wow, we are,
(02:56):
you know, whether positive ornegative, we are really impacted
by the work.
And so I dug into it more, Ibecame certified in a few things
and with that I really learnedwhat we do as providers is often
called everything burnout, likeI'm so burnt out, and sometimes
that's true, but what I havefound with those of us in this
(03:17):
type of work is it's more oftencompassion fatigue, secondary
traumatic stress and or PTSD orpost traumatic stress disorder.
So really, the difference beingthat compassion fatigue is
literally what it sounds likeYou're eroded of your compassion
, your empathy is completelystrained from constantly hearing
(03:40):
about the trauma of others.
And it's like we get into thiswork, we're really passionate,
we're really excited about it,and then it gets kind of
monotonous of constantly hearingall these horrific things that
we start to get impatient andirritable and we kind of lose
our passion and our empathy isso eroded we just have none left
to give.
So then unfortunately, ourclients and the victims and
(04:02):
survivors we work with sufferbecause we're not in a good
place mentally, right, and nowthey're not getting the care
they need, because they come tous and they can just see like we
don't want to be there andthat's what compassion fatigue
does to us.
It's not that we don't, butwe're not in a space to provide
that care to the best of ourability because we're not in a
good space mentally, emotionally, ourselves.
(04:23):
So in a really long nutshell,that's breaking down what just
specifically compassion fatigueis and kind of why I wanted to
get into it more and help again.
Help the helper.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
And what's secondary trauma?
Is that different thancompassion fatigue?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yes.
So secondary trauma is thinkingabout what happens over time in
the work that we do, where nowyour worldview starts to shift.
So maybe you start to actuallyhave some bias or some
stereotypes or you see the worlddifferently.
For example, working intrafficking for so long, I've
(05:00):
also helped law enforcement fora long time and, as we all know,
in this work 99% of theoffenders are males and I've
learned over time that I don'ttrust men and that's a really
irrational.
I know when I'm in a good spaceI can trust there are some safe
, really great men in this world.
But again, the secondary traumais that worldview shift where
(05:23):
now I have this nature of alwaysquestioning males, always
questioning males when I seethem with children.
Unfortunately, when I wasgetting a divorce I was in the
work as well, and then trying todate again I found was really
bleeding over into my work lifetoo, because it was like how do
I trust men?
How do I know they're notaddicted to porn?
(05:43):
How do I know that they haven'tpurchased someone for sex?
I just could not shut that off.
And so that's really thedifference.
For an example of secondarytrauma is those intrusive,
invasive thoughts, yourworldview shift.
You just have those changes inhow you see things and sometimes
it can be positive in the senseof like it helps keep you safer
(06:05):
because of your vigilance forthe world, but it kind of turns
into like hypervigilance, whereyou can't relax and some of
those invasive, intrusivethoughts.
As an example, I have a sixmonth old daughter now and
unfortunately, sometimes when Ichange her diaper I think about
the things I've seen in my joband I know a colleague that had
that same experience and soagain, those intrusive, invasive
(06:28):
thoughts and those types ofmoments that we don't always
realize is also secondary trauma.
So it's really just shiftingthe way we see things.
And one more example, if it'srelatable for people, is I
played in a softball tournamentonce and I use this example all
the time and it is a place wherepeople really let their guard
(06:50):
down.
They have fun.
After your games.
You drink beer and I remembersitting down after my game and I
cracked a beer with my team andI looked around because it's
just a party of people and myfirst thought was how many girls
are going to get raped heretonight?
And that's a perfect example,unfortunately, of secondary
trauma.
It's that worldview shift ofsomeone in a profession outside
(07:12):
of this work would probably notbe thinking that and so asking
ourselves where is thathappening internally?
Because that can add tocompassion, fatigue, that can
add to burnout, but it couldalso cause PTSD if it continues
to really impact our dailyfunctioning.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Wow, I've never heard I don't think such a clear
explanation of each one of thoseand the differences between
each one of those.
And just thinking of my ownexperience as well, I could
relate to that secondary trauma.
I have a 7 and 1 half month oldgrandson who those are my first
(07:51):
thoughts there you will not goto daycare, you will not.
Everybody mails our potentialperpetrators.
Anybody is a potential sexualabuser.
Until I rule you out.
I mean.
That is another good example ofa tilted, slanted worldview
(08:14):
Because, yeah, until I rule youout, you are ruled in, and so
that is not a good way to lookat the world.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I know, and that's what's.
I'm so glad you brought that up, because on one hand, like I
said, sometimes it can be quoteunquote good because you feel
safe, or you're aware of theworld differently than other
people, or you know that justbecause someone seems safe
doesn't mean they're safe.
And to add to how relatablewhat you're saying is, my 6
month old is babysat in my homeby her grandparents, because I
(08:45):
too, with the daycare thing,it's just part of the work and
how we've shifted.
So, yes, you clearly relate,I'm sure in many other ways too.
You could think of too just howover many years things impact
you differently.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And I think there are many listeners that probably
are green or maybe they have adifferent example.
But yes, that's exactly true,and if the listeners could see
me today, they would know that Ibabysit my grandchild because
you will not be babysat byanyone else.
Yeah, because of the worldview,and so because of that some
(09:22):
things have slipped and I get itEven in real.
So it sort of gives us a littlemore empathy in two fronts that
poor person like ourselveswhose worldview has been slanted
there's some stress with thatand also we can have some
(09:44):
empathy for that crass personwho may be at our collaborative
meeting, our team meeting, whois saying horrible things or has
a disposition that's prettynasty, and sometimes we don't
have a lot of compassion forthat person.
We're like well, you shouldcare about people and you don't
care about people.
So we have some feelings aboutyou and instead of looking at,
(10:09):
perhaps they did care, perhapsthey gave it all and now they
are suffering with compassionfatigue.
And if we have, let's say, acolleague like that not only
ourselves, but if we have acolleague like that, is there
anything that we can do?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I'm so glad you brought that up Because, like I
said in the beginning, themultidisciplinary team is where
I started noticing exactly whatyou just said.
And yes, there are things wecan do, I think, on a more
personal level.
If you see that in a meeting,do you have a relationship?
Or is it worth it to establisha relationship with your team
member to call them and say, hey, I noticed today maybe you were
(10:49):
a little more cynical ornegative or you weren't being as
person-centered, trauma,informed as you usually are, but
just checking in one-on-one oreven grabbing coffee with them
and saying let's just gettogether one-on-one and see how
the work is going and justsaying are you OK?
I notice these things.
I know you really care and arepassionate about the work, but I
(11:09):
didn't see that yesterday.
But it's more important that Icheck in to make sure you're OK.
However, I know you care aboutthe work and your clients and so
we have to be in a better placeand, however you want to have
that conversation, you know thatperson best.
I think there's another way tolook at it.
Is it so crucial to be agentsof change in our community?
(11:29):
A lot of us, probably listeningtoday, would agree with that
Part of it is okay.
Can we sit down with our teamand talk about this concept and
say, like, as a team, this isimportant and maybe let's also
bring it back to our agencies?
It's a normalized thing that wecan just start to be
comfortable talking about andrecognizing where it's not so
(11:51):
like, oh my God, what was wrongwith so-and-so today, like that
was not okay.
Or a lot of times there is sometoxicity in our work because we
are burnt out and then insteadof fixing it, it's kind of
getting blameful and negativeand frustrated with that person
Not understanding there might bea lot more going on underneath.
So my second thing is how canwe be agents of change?
(12:11):
How can, as a team, wenormalize the conversation, and
then that might bleed back intoeveryone's own agencies.
So, as a facilitator, I used totalk about that in meetings, or
I would send out resources to myteam on human trafficking, but
also I'd say, hey, here'ssomething to focus on taking
care of yourself too.
So it's something that you canjust organically add into that
(12:32):
conversation.
Vulnerability helps, maybe evencoming to a meeting and saying,
hey, I'm sorry, I was reallystruggling with how the works
impacted me and I didn'tinteract well with so-and-so
yesterday and I feel bad.
They're a client.
I would never want to do that.
So even having those own momentsto bring to your team so they
understand like, oh, this isnormal, I think reminding people
(12:54):
that therapists have therapists, because we forget that even
those of us in the work can gethelp and also need to process
feelings and emotions and thethings we struggle with, because
we get compassionate fatigue,because we care, we're not, it's
not we're doing something wrong, it's we care about people.
So we have to assume that we'regoing to be impacted when
(13:14):
they're not well and that's okay.
So that was a very long-windedanswer, but there's just so much
we can do to normalize itwithin our team and within those
one-on-one relationships wehave.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, I love the idea of purposefully and
intentionally holding space inthe team meeting to discuss that
, because you know we've beentrained, socialized, to come to
the meeting and be professional.
But in your work you do careabout what you do, so why not
(13:47):
care enough to talk about it orto?
I love the idea of pullingsomebody aside, going to have
coffee and just sharing spacewith them and allowing them to
vent.
Maybe you don't have the answerand I don't even know if you
should have the answer, butallowing people to vent Once you
understand your team.
(14:09):
You know I have a team and welike to say you know, like, if I
understand your heart, thenwhat comes out of your mouth
sometimes isn't pretty, butsometimes the ugliness needs to
come out.
It needs to come out among safepeople.
I understand your heart, Iunderstand your intention, but I
(14:29):
also understand that you'refrustrated with this.
You can't stand this person.
You know, today I cannot takeone more thing from this person
and it's like it doesn't takeaway from the fact that you're
in the work and we understandyour heart, and so I think you
know that the work that you dois so important and it's like
(14:53):
you have to keep remindingpeople about that.
So you're creating a course forus, actually, of the
Emancipation Nation Network andonline community and we're
starting actual full courses tohelp people increase their
skills, increase their knowledge, and so one of the courses that
(15:16):
you're creating for us, can youtalk about that for a minute?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yes, I'm so excited.
I just finished my lastrecording yesterday and I just
put a lot of time and effortinto it because it's so
important.
And there's worksheet I hatethe word worksheets, but there's
, you know, for lack of betterwords kind of worksheets with
each section of it too, sopeople can bring that back to
their agencies or to their homesand just say, hey, let's just
(15:42):
ponder these ideas or theseactivities.
But I did one real quickoverview I think it's a 30
minute overview of just what is,you know, burnout versus
compassion, fatigue.
You know all the stuff we'retalking about.
And then the next phase goesinto a 90 minute introduction to
the idea and what do we do, howdo we take care of ourselves,
what are some strategies?
(16:02):
And then after that I have, Ithink, two other 40 minute ones.
One is on individuals.
So now, okay, now we can focusjust internally.
You know, what can we work on,what can we assess about
ourselves and what can we do?
And then the other one is onrelationships not just your
partner or your friends, that'salso your family.
(16:25):
So kind of, how is what we doevery day impacting our
relationships and what do we doabout that?
And then the third one it's alittle over an hour is more on
your organization, so how tomake culture change within the
organization.
And then, if you're a leader,you know in a supervisor role,
there's also some tidbits inthere about how you, as a leader
, should and can make changeswithin your organization.
(16:47):
So in a nutshell, it's a.
I think five videos and so manyresources probably too many,
but that's the goal.
Is there something foreverybody there?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, and I think if you really care about the work,
if you really wanna make adifference in people's lives,
the way to do that is to takecare of yourself, because you
role model that, you mentor thatIf everybody sees you empty in
your bucket all the time goinghome to some of the crazy people
(17:19):
you live with and they'resupposed to fill your bucket but
they might be empty in yourbucket as well you walk it
around with empty buckets.
I mean pretty soon you havenothing to give and you also
mentor to the little ones thatlook up to you that they should
do the same thing.
So it's so important to takecare of yourself.
(17:42):
Now, on the network EmancipationNation Network, you can go in
there for free.
There are phase one, we call it, where you can take a.
You know, just watch a bunch ofvideos on critical topics for
free.
Phase two is gonna go a littlebit more in depth still free,
and really you'd be good.
(18:03):
But if you go into phase three,those are full blown courses.
We are going to charge you forthose courses because we bring
experts like Melissa to thetable who use her time and
energy and expertise to walk youhand in hand, teaching you how
to take care of yourself in yourworkplace, at your home, just
(18:27):
individually, and so thosecourses will be available for
you if you're interested.
Now, melissa, you do also ablog, so can you just talk about
that?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yes, and I look forward to getting back into it,
because since I've had mydaughter six months ago, I maybe
have wrote two blogs, butthere's tons and tons on there.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Good way to take care of yourself, by the way.
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I know, actually putting some boundaries in place
.
Who would have thought so?
The blog is really aself-development blog.
It's just concepts I've learnedthrough social work as well as
my job, things that just maybewe take for granted or we're not
mindful of, or just terminologywithin the social work field
that I'm like, wow, this is ahelpful concept when you really
(19:14):
break it down and I use a lot ofpersonal examples, so it's just
kind of food for thought.
No blog is more than a fiveminute read.
There's other sections on HappyThings Thursday where I just
talk about 10 quick things youcan read that hopefully brighten
your day or make you smile,that you can be more mindful of.
You know, it might be somethingas simple as like hitting all
(19:35):
the green lights on your way towork right.
It's just those little thingswe overlook that happen every
day, that when we're having arough day, maybe the next time
something like that happens toyou, you're like, oh yeah,
that's right, that is reallycool.
So it kind of actually goesright into that compassion
fatigue stuff, which isinteresting because I started
writing that blog before I evengot into this, so it was kind of
(19:56):
always there, just in adifferent way.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
That's so cool.
What you know, what I love todo, my personal thing is I'll
turn on TikTok for you know 10minutes or whatever, and I'll
just listen to a comedian saysomething crazy, and then I'll
just giggle and laugh and thenI'll just go into you know, my
next important meeting orwhatever.
Yes, but it reminds me that, ohyes, you know everything.
(20:24):
We take the issue seriously,but sometimes ourself.
Let's not take ourselves soseriously and let's just enjoy
some of the things that we canenjoy.
So, melissa, where do peoplefind this blog?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
So it's short for social work secrets and it's
SWsecretsnet.
And I also have a Facebook page.
That's a link on the bottom.
I have a link to all my socialmedia as well, if you want
updates on when those blogs areposted.
So, and then I'll post funnymemes on my social work Facebook
page too.
(21:00):
You know that I see on Instagramor whatever that are just very
relatable but to your point,make you laugh a little bit at
the work, and that's okay.
My partner happens to be in lawenforcement.
I talk about that a lot in myphase three curriculum.
And to your point about thecomedy, I love that you said
that.
(21:20):
Who doesn't have time for a fewminutes in between things just
to help?
You know, meetings are hard,cases are hard, and it just
takes a breather away from thatfor a minute.
So what we do at night is, ofcourse, watch documentaries
directly related to the type ofwork that we do, but then we're
not checking out.
We're always in work mode, andso that's what we do.
(21:42):
If we can't find something towatch, and we know that that's
what we're gonna end up doing,we're like stand up comedy.
Stand up comedy, go to Netflix.
I mean, there's so much onthere and that's kind of our
quick like nope, we're not doingthat tonight, and switch in
gears and, like you said, youcan watch it for 10 minutes, you
can watch it for three hoursand it's just something that's
relatable and it's easy to do.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
That's right, and it doesn't let you forget who you
really are deep down inside,because some of the things that
are so comical and so relatableand so real that this is
somebody talking to you aboutreal things, and so it can be
funny, it can be disarming, itcan be relaxing, and so, Melissa
(22:24):
, people want to get a hold ofyou.
Let's say they want to learnmore or ask a question, or they
want you to be a presenter,perhaps in their agency.
Are you open to doingcompassion, fatigue, secondary
trauma type presentations inagencies?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yes, I do that a lot.
I do it just as much as I dothe human trafficking training
and consulting.
So that is absolutely somethingI do over Zoom.
I travel in person, dependingon when and how and where, and
so I'm presenting I'm trying tothink well, at the Dallas Crimes
Against Children Conference,I'm presenting on
person-centered, trauma-informedinvestigations.
(23:04):
However, there's various onesthroughout Texas.
I'm presenting on compassionfatigue in the next few months
and then I've presented for youat your conference on this topic
several times too, and I willbe in September again.
So people can view a reallyshort 30 minute one, two, if
they would like to.
So, yes, people can get a holdof me through my email, which is
half my first name, half mylast name, which is Melissa
(23:27):
Kaiser.
So it's Melchai M-E-L-K-A-Iconsulting at gmailcom.
That would be the easiest.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, and I love that also that you have branched out
and you have a consultant.
I love to see social workersthat become empowered and say
I'm gonna offer my skills andtalents under a consulting label
.
I like that as well.
So how did you get to where youare in terms of consulting just
(23:58):
for people who are out thereand they think that they have to
spend all their time in anagency or working for an
institution?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, great question.
It happened in a way that, forme, pushed me to do it, which is
what it took.
So, to your point, I hope thatpeople maybe hear something like
this and feel like, oh, I canjust do it, I don't need to be
as pushed.
But I was working in NorthDakota in the human trafficking
field with an agency and afterbeing there for several years, I
(24:31):
did other human traffickingwork at a partnering agency and
then the human trafficking taskforce in North Dakota had
changed how they were hiringthose of us in the work and so
they said, hey, do you wannacome back and just consult under
the task force, be your ownboss, versus working for an
(24:52):
agency, and I was terrified todo it.
But the director is so good atempowering you and helping with
your strengths In terms ofleadership.
She's just excellent and I'vealways appreciated her guidance
because she's the one who reallygave me the push I needed and
she's like you can do this, it'sgreat.
So I did it through.
The North Dakota task force ishow I slowly started out doing
(25:14):
it, and it's not as intimidatingas people might think in terms
of getting a consulting labelunder your name, getting up and
running.
If you have a good financialperson to help you, it's cake.
It's so much easier than youthink.
And then it's really aboutnetworking.
So once I moved, I moved toFlorida and was able to branch
(25:34):
out more and just go to nationalconferences if I had some
funding available to do that butalso starting to present, using
the people that had seen mepresent as a reference, because
people know my work and theyworked with me for various years
.
So once you can get out thereand network and maybe you
already have a excuse me, a planfor that people that are
(25:55):
interested in consulting, maybethey kind of already know where
they would start and do that.
I mean you can even start yourLLC on the side and slowly get
into it until you build thatconfidence.
So I will say it's worth it.
It's a little stressful interms of starting out, thinking
like what do I do?
Where do I go, but there'salways people to help guide you
(26:16):
that have done it before.
I did it in the midst of movingand COVID and many other things
in my personal life that werenot in a good place and I was
still able to get up and runningno problem.
So you can do it, that's forsure.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Absolutely, and I talking about taking care of
yourself.
Maybe for some of you, this isa good way to take care of
yourself, to be able to shareyour gifts and talents with the
world without having thebureaucracy and the stress of an
agency or an institution.
I mean, I started a podcastbecause someone said have you
(26:52):
heard a podcast, what?
And they showed me.
I didn't even know how tolisten to a podcast.
So I started listening to a fewpodcasts and I thought, wow, I
could do that.
So I had no idea how to eat,what the equipment was, how to
eat it.
But that doesn't matter,because if you have learned your
(27:14):
job, if you have learned, thenyou know how to learn.
So it's not difficult.
If somebody else is doing it,look over at them and say, man,
if they're doing it, I certainlycan do.
So you know and consider it.
You know.
I think people a lot of timeslet fear Guide their lives and
(27:37):
great passion for yourself guideyour life.
So, melissa, where do we expectto see you?
Perhaps in the next three tofive years?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Well, my goal is to keep growing.
I've been at this Probablyabout two years now.
The first year I was still withthe North Dakota Task Force as
a consultant and for the lastyear so I've been on my own.
So my goal is to keep gettingmy name out there and help the
helpers however I can, and thatfor me, has been that.
That transition has been sorewarding.
(28:09):
People who say I don'tnecessarily know how to work
with a victim or survivor oftrafficking, or our team isn't
maybe person-centered traumainformed, we don't know how to
do an appropriate interview orinvestigation.
So just being able to help thepeople doing the good work has
been immensely rewarding.
So my goal is to keep gettingcontracting gigs to help, and I
(28:29):
do contract for secondary trauma.
Sometimes an organization justsays we need help.
We're, you know it's kind ofgotten really toxic here.
We have a high turnover orsomething horrific just happened
, you know, to a client we wereworking with and we don't really
know how to come back from that.
So there's just areas I love tohelp with and I just want to
keep growing.
I, my flexibility is great andMakes it easier to meet people
(28:54):
where they're at.
So hopefully you'll see me atmore conferences in the future
and just available on LinkedInand wanting to Do a lot more
spreading my blog and maybe evencreating my own videos on
LinkedIn and some of thosethings too.
So just growth, that's the maingoal.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yes, I love it, no fear.
Just all about the growth andthe love, and thank you so much,
melissa, for the time that youshared with us just to, and
congratulations on your baby.
I did not know we had.
Yes, well, you too yeah sevenmonths and a lot of my time.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I hear you because the important time.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So yes, it is but thank you so much again and I'm
sure we will talk again.
And I just encourage people togo to your blog, maybe use it
daily, this little five minutes,just to read something inspired
, to get you grounded.
So Do that.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Thank you for having me.
I'll see you all at theconference this year.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
That was Melissa Kaiser and she did come to our
20th annual International HumanTrafficking and Social Justice
Conference.
I recorded this right beforethe conference and Melissa's
blog is at SW like social workSW secrets net.
To get a hold of her is Mel Kaime L Ka I consulting dot com.
(30:24):
So how important are theseconcepts?
Compassion fatigue and I knowwe've seen people in our
collaborative meetings whenwe've met with people and they
just seem like they have losttheir compassion and we don't
think about compassion fatigueand we don't Think about them in
(30:45):
empathetic ways and we don'tthink about reaching out to them
and maybe we should.
And secondary trauma Is thataffecting your life?
It certainly has altered myreality in various ways.
So we know that we have to takecare of ourselves, but when we
(31:06):
think about self-care, we oftenthink about a bubble bath or
watching the game or whatever.
But doing some deep self-care,looking at our Potential for
compassion fatigue or, if wehave compassion fatigue,
secondary trauma Are weexperiencing that?
(31:26):
So how important are theseconcepts when it comes to living
a happy and and stress-free orminimally stressful life?
We talked about the EmancipationNation Network and it actually,
if you go to Google and type inEmancipation Nation Network.
(31:47):
You can become a member forfree.
There are over 1200Anti-trafficking advocates there
.
Once you get in there, there isa phase one that Offers you all
kinds of free webinars to fillin the gaps of maybe what you
may not know about humantrafficking.
(32:07):
Phase two goes a little more indepth in various areas that you
might be interested in, and sothere, if you look at module six
in phase two, you'll seeMelissa's webinar.
It's called an introduction tocompassion, fatigue and
secondary traumatic stress.
(32:28):
Go there, learn more Aboutthose two concepts.
It may change your life.
If you are interested, melissahas a course, a full course, to
take you from beginning to end,to hold your hand through and
Help you address Any compassionfatigue, secondary traumatic
(32:51):
stress.
The course is called the costof caring how to enjoy life
While balancing a high stressprofession.
Now that course is 399.
Go there if you're interestedin that course.
You know you may be saying toyourself oh my gosh, 399,
(33:12):
because you are again pushingyour needs off to the side To
take care of other people.
But the more you take care ofyourself, you not only mentor
that to others, but you willstay in this type of work longer
.
So please just consider ituntil next time.
(33:33):
The fight continues.
Let's not just do something,let's do the best thing.
If you like this episode ofEmancipation Nation, please
subscribe and I'll send you theweekly podcast.
Until then, the fight continues.
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