Icebergs, Implosions, and the Gremlin Who Fell In Love

What makes the Titanic disaster so uniquely mesmerizing even after 113 years? According to Michael, a self-proclaimed Titanic historian who joins us in this episode, it's the perfect three-act tragedy unfolding over just 2 hours and 40 minutes—from the initial complacency to final panic, all playing out on "a well-lit, 900-foot wide stage" with every dramatic element imaginable.

We dive deep into our cultural fascination with maritime disasters, comparing the Titanic's tragic sinking with the recent OceanGate Titan submersible implosion. The contrast is stark and revealing. While the Titanic faced a perfect storm of unlikely circumstances, the Titan disaster emerges as a case study in negligence and hubris. Through recent documentaries, we piece together the troubling portrait of Stockton Rush, OceanGate's CEO described by former employees as "a narcissist bordering on psychopath" who systematically ignored safety warnings and fired dissenting voices.

The most chilling aspect? Everyone seemed to know the Titan was destined to fail. Former employees recounted hearing the same disturbing popping and creaking sounds that were captured in footage before the final, fatal dive. Yet Rush persisted, using a PlayStation controller for navigation and unconventional materials that experts repeatedly warned were unsuitable for deep-sea exploration.

Beyond maritime disasters, Michael shares hilariously cringeworthy "gremlin stories" about his lovesick Facebook mishap and a Spider-Man-inspired gymnastics fail that left him flat on his back at a college party. These moments of vulnerability and self-deprecating humor remind us that even Titanic historians have their less-than-perfect human moments.

Whether you're a history buff, fascinated by tales of hubris, or just looking for a laugh, this episode offers a thoughtful exploration of why certain disasters capture our collective imagination and what they reveal about human nature. Listen now and discover why some tragedies continue to resonate long after the waters have closed over them.

Need advice? Want to share your own gremlin story? Email us at [e-mail] and follow on Instagram and TikTok @emilytopgremilypod.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
all right, cheers, my first male guest and we're here
with michael.
How are?

Speaker 3 (00:20):
you I'm great, were I'm fucking awesome, I mean it's
tough, but, um, I feel likeit's in, like my I'm like
programmed in my muscle memory.
When someone's out, how are you, you want to automatically say
I'm great, I mean yeah, I mean.
How often do people actuallyanswer that question?

Speaker 1 (00:40):
I mean sometimes people trauma dump.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, like they kind of give you shit for asking the
question.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
No, I mean like they're like oh my God, actually
I'm terrible.
So this is what happened andthis happened.
I've had that before, Not onhere.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Of the people who've done it.
Can you give me like a piechart of?
Well, there's only two.
What percentage men?
What percentage girls?
Why did I get into the piechart?
Just give me a pie chart, andin this one the men are blue,
the girls are pink.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
What percentage of that pie chart would be blue
Right now, 100.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
100% girls trauma dump.
Sure, well, I kind of just did,you did Outside, but I mean, it
wasn't trauma dumping.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
I actually asked you like questions.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, it's dumping, I actually asked you like
questions.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, it's trauma dumping if you just are
generally being like hey, howare you like in passing?

Speaker 3 (01:28):
they're like actually I am terrible the person who is
doing the trauma.
Dumping is being innocentdumping.
The is, in a sense, beingdisingenuous, because they know
what the person means with hey.
Say hey, how are you?
So they're kind of like, almostkind of ruining that person's

(01:48):
day, or maybe they just need tovent.
Yeah, but yeah, there's twosides, because then you would be
in the right to say well, youasked.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's like well, I didn't really ask.
It's like well, then, you'reyeah.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Then you were being disingenuous.
Yeah, exactly Then you werebeing disingenuous.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, exactly you should have just said hi and
moved on.
I know we have known each othersince actually early June 2016.
My memory is impeccable.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Are you serious?

Speaker 3 (02:16):
That my memory is impeccable.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
No, are you serious?
That's the date.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Early June 2nd, I had just gotten back from the
boundary, the boundary waters inminnesota.
Oh and uh.
Yeah, I just remember that wowit was right on the canadian
border it was like rain man um,it didn't.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Oh, the autistic guy no, yeah, I'm not saying you are
.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
I thought you meant did I make it rain the boundary
water?
Because I I was talking aboutlike, like, like the nature of
it.
It was a beautiful place aboutyour memory.
Oh god, yes yeah oh god, yeah,it's weird.
If you talk to any of myfriends growing up, they'll I
mean, I like memorized magazinearticles do you think you have
like a photographic memory?
Um photographic.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Is that like, where, like you remember, like, if you
read something you can likepretty much memorize the entire
thing I memorize scripts prettyquick, memorize dialogue pretty
quick.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Um, people, it's weird, though, because the
brains are complicated, likepeople's, like a, like a face,
of course, but names I can berough with.
I won't retain names, well, butevents, things that happened,
things that were said, or even,like my high school football

(03:31):
program, I can tell you theheight and weights of all the
players.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Oh, wow, yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Stats really weird with stats.
We talked about what I might beon the spectrum, you and I.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
We did have that conversation.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
I asked chat GPT, what does it mean when I do that
?
Because when I'm reallythinking, when I'm really trying
to think of what to say oranalyze it, I do it Like a
little tick.
Yeah, it's interesting, I don'tknow.
It kind of started recently, inthe last year or two, but
there's that.

(04:06):
Right now I'm giving clues asto why I think I might be that.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Okay, on the spectrum .

Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, because you asked you never asked.
Do you want to talk about Titan?

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Okay.
Yeah, that is why you are here.
Oh, by the way, we have avirgin mojito today.
I have to talk about episodedrink because you know that's
the format.
Maybe that's my on the spectrumthing.
I have to do things in order,but yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
I'm OCD which I do believe is like a form of it.
But you know, I got otherthings too, I think in that
regard.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
We click in the same environment, but you can have
animals in the same environmentthat don't get along.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
But they're still.
You say, we don't get along.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
But they're still from that climate.
I struggle, I'll need some time.
I'll have a better comebackwhen I'm in the shower, all
right.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Well, you can hit me back up later, hot water
enhances creativity.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
So have you ever thought about you have like a
deep, cool thought in the shower?
I think that has something todo with it.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, I usually have like all my like fights in Okay.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
And it's like two days later.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
And I was like shit.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
All right, Well, whatever.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, all right.
Well, virgin Mojito, becauseyou said you get hung over after
two beers.
And I didn't want to ruin yourday.
Slash weekend, so Virgin Mojito.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
You said you get hung over every day.
Slash weekend.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
I didn't want to ruin your day slash your weekend.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Oh, oh, oh, okay, okay, because you know, I know,
you have stuff to do.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
But yeah, we are here because you and I are really
big history nerds, uh-huh, andwe love Titanic.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
I'm smiling.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
I can see.
Yeah, but thank you for tellingthe people who aren't watching.
Oh, yeah, not.
Yeah, this goes on YouTube butnot everyone watches.
Yeah, but yeah, we're here totalk about Titanic because it's
a great movie and an interestinghistory fact, and then, in turn
, the Titan sub, because there'sall these new documentaries and

(06:12):
he is so much more preparedthan me.
I told him when he got here Iwas kind of nervous to do this
with him because I was like he'sgoing to be so much smarter
than me.
So I'm just kind of here forthe ride at this point.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, you know.
Let's be honest.
Yeah, I might be more preparedthan you, but that's not why I
know more about Titanic than you.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
I mean, you've been like deep you said you were like
deep in the knowledge and likeyou like to go on like forums
and websites and whatnot.
Yeah, I can like hold my ownagainst like a Titanic historian
, deep in the knowledge and likeyou like to go on like forums
and websites and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, I can like hold my own against like a Titanic
historian, like if him and Iwere in the same room, it would
be on like an equal level.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Did you ever think about like becoming a historian
then?

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Um, Hmm.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Especially with your like well, kind of amazing
memory.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, kind of in in that direction, not with I mean,
I don't want to get off track,we'll do it later, but kind of
in that direction with tapemeasure home runs, which is very
specific I don't know what thatis.
It's a home run that goesreally far.
Oh okay, like a tape measure,because if a home run back in
the day, oh, that went reallyfar, someone pull up the tape

(07:21):
measure let's see how many feetthat home run traveled.
So it's a very uh, it's a veryspecific subject in baseball
history.
Um, not many of them, perhaps,because not many people care.
Um, I think there is a largeaudience for it.
So, yeah, no to your point.
I would be interested in that.

(07:41):
Yeah, but no, I'd never gotinto into like making money off
being a Titanic historian.
I wasn't even sure where thatwould start.
I'm sure that's a.
I'm sure there's not many veryspots for that.
Like it's not.
Like working at Ralph's it'snot as available as that.
Like I'm a Titanic historian,can you pay me the demand Right?

(08:02):
There we go.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Well, have you ever been, because you're from
Indiana.
Yeah, so have you ever been tothe Titanic Museum that's in
Branson, missouri?

Speaker 3 (08:12):
No, I haven't been to any of the Titanic Museums.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
None of them.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
That's why my voice dropped just how it dropped,
because that's a shame.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, I feel like it's colored with shame.
Well, it's not shame, it'sshame.
Yeah, it's colored with shame,you.
Well, it's not shame, it's just, you haven't done it yet.
Okay, you have time.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
It's not going anywhere if I were a dog, I
think I'd be a husky.
I think I'm dramatic I know,yes, I know you've seen those
videos like a husky gettingtheir nails and like going nuts
yeah yeah, yeah, I could seethat hudson the husky, hudson,
the husky.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
There you go.
I'll change that as your namein my phone, for sure all right,
they're sweet dogs thoughthey're very sweet.
Okay, go ahead.
All right, you know what?
I'm kind of just gonna let youtake it away, tell me and tell
the audience about titanic.

(09:03):
What do you want to talk aboutTitanic, titan, what's your take
on that?

Speaker 3 (09:09):
I have something to say about Titanic in general
that came to me last night.
Okay, About the why, thefascination, In fact the one.
I don't know if it was theTitan documentary on Max or
Netflix, one of those two, butsomeone said like the three most
well-known words across theplanet.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
That was in the Netflix one.
I just watched it.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
It was.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
God, Coca-Cola.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, and Titanic.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
Wow, and so that kind of reinforced me thinking like,
why the fascination?
And you hear that questionasked a lot and many times it's
kind of a vague answer that Iwould rather it be unpacked, but
it's like it's the humanelement and, yeah, absolutely
true, but there's more to itthan that, because there are
plenty of events that carry that, but don't have this aura.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
And.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
I wrote this down From the time it struck the
iceberg to when it sank.
That's two hours and 40 minutes.
That's the length of like along play or like a long movie.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
But like sync.
That's two hours and 40 minutes.
That's the length of like along play or like a long movie,
but like not too long of a movie.
There are plenty of good movies.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Two hours and 40 minutes, but it's at the length
of the actual titanic movie andit was done on purpose.
No, titanic movie was threehours and 15 minutes, but we're
gonna get to that later becausethat's part of a joke I told on
the message board okay becausemy screen name was iceberg boss.
All right, we'll do that later,okay, but no, um, I was gonna.
Well, I had notes, but yeah, Ithink it's important I get this
right what I'm saying, um it and, and just like a movie, emily,

(10:34):
it had three acts act one,complacency, act two, confusion.
Act three, panic.
So from the time it struck theBerg to when it sank below the
water in the North Atlantic twohours and 40 minutes later.
It's three acts.
And then I got more into likethe play, a theatrical thought

(10:58):
of it, like a Broadway, like itwas a well-lit, 900-foot wide
stage.
You had a, I mean, and you hadeverything.
If I got chills, you had.
As far as like an entertainingplay in the tragedy, you had
everything.
Like you you even had a fuckingband playing near my God to the
as she was dying.
Um, you had farewells to eachother uh, farewells on the boat

(11:23):
deck.
You had romance and goodbyes.
You had rockets firing athousand feet in the black sky
asking for help.
The ocean itself that night, byall accounts, was unusually calm
and flat right.
In fact, a sailor, a, uh, navyguy who survived, who's a
veteran at sea for 40 years,said he'd never seen the ocean

(11:44):
so calm.
It's like a pond.
So that adds another element toit.
Yeah, and that in itself is whythe iceberg was hard to spot
anyways.
But, um, and as the angle ofthe ship increased, it's just so
symbolic, so did doubt, um, sothat's where I think it is.
I, I mean, it really is thehuman.

(12:06):
It's kind of like a what wouldyou do?
We all like watching movies andplays where the question is
what would you do?
And we get that with theTitanic disaster, absolutely.
And you have heroes and youhave cowards, you have the truth
coming out about somebody,because every guy would say, oh,
like I, let the woman go, butthen it's like Ooh, let me get

(12:27):
in there.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Then you got the Billy Zane character.
He was, like you know, kickingpeople out.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, uh, you'll swamp us.
Yeah, that he was saying that,uh, that we're going to get
swamped yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
That's where.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
I think the fascination is and like a movie
or a play, you need a goodlocation.
Right, that's cosmetically abeautiful location.
Right, it's a huge, enormous,huge, enormous, beautiful, rich,
a luxurious ship.
It was the most luxurious shipof its time by far yeah and um

(13:13):
uh yeah.
So that came to me about likeum, all I just said there, I
know is scattered, but all Ijust said there is really what
it is.
It's that.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
That's the fascination.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
That's the fascination, and just like the
ironies.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Right, yeah, it did everything it wasn't supposed to
do.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, and it was its first voyage you have man versus
nature.
That era of technology was whenwe were making a lot of
progress.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
And so a man had a lot of faith in technology and
its triumph.
So it stood for that, and asurvivor, first class Jack there
said something like there waspeace in the air, an aura of
we're okay, Everything's great.
It was like a dream.
There was peace in the air, anaura of we're okay, Everything's
great.
It was like a dream.
But then when the Titanic sankit was like a startling wake up,

(14:09):
like the world came alive kindof thing.
It really is kind of a beforeand after of that era as well as
technology and it kind ofstands for people were never
certain again.
It became a metaphor.
For Christ's sake.
Yeah, people were never certainagain and I think metaphor for
Christ's sake, yeah, people werenever certain again, and I
think it is the biggest disasterin peacetime, which I think is

(14:30):
another way of saying like aship that sank but it wasn't in
the middle of a war, like acause of a war.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
It was not in a war.
Yeah, yeah, correct, oh, okay,oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Okay, so you just asked that question.
What do you think you wouldhave done in the Titanic if you
were a passenger, and all that?

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Well, the nerd in me right now is going to answer.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
On the starboard side , First Officer William Murdoch
was in charge of lowering thelifeboats and his policy was
women and children first, andmen if there are still spots
available.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Charles Light Tyler.
The second officer on the portside was by the book woman and
children only.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
In fact, John Jacob Astor asked him if he could get
on with his wife.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Because she was pregnant.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Madeline yeah, and he was the richest man on the ship
.
Yeah, he was worth $100 million, which was a lot of money then
and now Back then.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's good money now.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
It's okay, money now For inflation.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, he would have been like $2.8 billion yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah, anyways, what was his family?
I?
Think his father or grandfatherwas like fur traders, and then
it was railroads.
Anyways, he asked if he couldjoin and Charles Lighttower said
no, sir, no men are allowed onthese boats until this and that.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
He didn't challenge or complain.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, he just let it go Ben.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Guggenheim didn't even try to get on a lifeboat.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
He was the one who said we're dressing our best and
we're prepared to go down as agentleman.
Yes, yeah, that was cool, oh,that was tasteful.
I thought that was good writing, but um, anyway, do you think
that's what you would do?
Ask for a brandy.
Yeah, what would you do?
Um, um, I would.
If I'm there, then I knowwhat's going to happen.

(16:22):
A lot of people early on didn'tknow it was going to sink, so
like I would have done my bestto get as many people in the
lifeboats to fill up and I wouldhave gone down to third class
to help get them up Right.
As far as them being lockeddown intentionally, it's not
quite known.
It's not as clear cut as it wasin the movie, like no, you're

(16:49):
not coming.
Yeah, in the movie it was verycold-hearted, just yes, it might
have been.
It might have been by mistake,because it's not like the ship
had a speaker system, yeah, oran alarm system.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
It was just people running into the it was word of
mouth.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
You're knocking on doors and getting people to get
their get their life vests on,and and the third class was far
down there, in a different partof the ship, and there's a lot
of confusion.
There's a lot of immigrants, alot of people who don't even
speak English, and it's worthnoting that most of the officers
, if not all of them, did notknow the ship was going to sink.

(17:18):
So in the movie, how it'sportrayed, with them holding
them down there like they likethey, it kind of gives an
impression that oh, no, like theship's gonna sink and you guys
are staying down here.
No, uh, even the officers onboard didn't know it was gonna
sink.
So they were just trying to likecontrol the panic and they were
trying to keep it separatebecause third class can't go up

(17:39):
to first class.
So like like in some people'smind it was was just like a
lifeboat drill, or just like alot of officers thought we're
going to fill the lifeboatshalfway but then they'll come
back later.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
So there's a lot of evidence out there that most of
the officers did not know it wasgoing to sink, which I think is
a mistake.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Like they should have known, because then they would
have felt that the life boats upmore all the way.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Well, you would think um.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
I would have gone down and gotten people up to the
boat deck and helped with justgetting getting getting as many
women and children in the lifeboats.
Like, like I do stand by that.
Like I think that's right, yeah, because, uh, kids are kids and
the females are the ones who,um gave birth to them.

(18:31):
So I think, um it, I don't know,like it's just what you do,
right it's just what you do yeah, that's kind of funny, like
like, if you ask me to reallyexplain it from like a logical
perspective, kids is like that'sobvious, right, um, yeah, I,

(18:52):
yeah.
If it was the other way, it'dbe like a men and the women
stand here and drown.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
I don't know that it just seems more cold.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
Well, yeah, yeah like what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1 (19:01):
I mean, yeah, I think women and children first as
well.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
We both agree, but I wonder yeah, I don't know.
I guess that's kind of like amoral dilemma, because Well, I
think a woman carries more valuebecause she can reproduce and
make the world go around.
I mean, I think if you get downto the primitive aspect of it,
oh, you think that's like thereason why it it's women and

(19:26):
children?

Speaker 1 (19:27):
I always thought it was they did it.
It was like kind of like oldschool, because it was passed
down for sure because men areburly and they can handle
themselves and they can takecare of themselves, and women
are like feeble and feminine andwe don't know what we're doing.
I thought that's what it's morekind of that could, could be it
too, and children are children,so they're just innocent and
they need to be taken care of.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
It's probably a rule on all ships.
In the case of this, that pointis moot because the water is
freezing.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Right.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
But yeah, if the water is not, then yeah you talk
about.
Well, like a man can, he needs,he can be in the water and swim
.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Right.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
But the woman should not be struggling in the water.
She should be safe in the boat,because you, because you
protect them, yeah, um, yeah,but that, but that's irrelevant.
When the, when the it's 28degree water and you're in the
middle of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, yeah um.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
What did you think of titan?

Speaker 1 (20:17):
oh my god, okay.
So when it?
I remember when it firsthappened, I we were my boyfriend
and I, we were on ouranniversary trip and it like
consumed.
I was like obsessed with whatwas going on and not like in the
moment and paying attention towhat I should have been paying
attention to Because, like Iremember, the news was going on
and on about how they thoughtthey were still alive and then

(20:41):
it became it was like I rememberthere was a countdown, like in,
like in the corner, like aticker of how much time they had
left of oxygen and in my head Iwas like these poor people, oh
my god, they have six hours left.
Oh my god, oh my, it just likeit, like panicked me almost,
like in a weird way.
And then, of course, we findout what happened.
They, you know, imploded andwe'd been searching them for

(21:02):
them for four days for no reason.
It was wild.
But then in watching thedocumentaries now that just
recently came out, you realizewhat a terrible guy Stockton
Rush was.
I, like you, already kind ofMad prick vibes.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
His resting face is prick face, you feel me.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yes, he is a guy who was born into privilege, married
even into more privilege andhad no care in the world because
he thought he was it.
It's like he was playing God.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
I think he wanted more than anything.
He wanted to be it Like theymade a reference.
He wanted to be it, you know,like like they made a reference.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
He wanted to be a bezos or yeah, he wanted to be.
He wanted to be in the sameclass as Elon.
Musk and Jeff Bezos and it'slike like he just he had so much
.
He was a guy who had so muchmoney, who shouldn't have had
money to begin with, but he hadso much money that he just
disregarded human life,including his own.
But it's, it's wild.

(22:09):
There I said okay, I wrote itdown because I was like, hold on
, he's coming, so prepared, Ineed to have something yeah,
yeah okay, so the guy I got, Igot scared there it is all right
, tony neeson, who is thedirector of engineering.
This was from the netflixdocumentary um titan, the ocean
gate submersible disaster secondone yeah, yeah, he said he

(22:30):
called stock stockton quote anarcissist bordering on a
psychopath, which I thought likekind of just summed it up in
and of itself.
He gave not one flying fuckabout anybody or anyone's
opinions.
If you counteracted him andsaid, hey, I don't think this is
a good idea, he just fired youand disregarded anyone's opinion

(22:55):
other than his own or anyonewho was kissing his ass.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
I have written Stockton psycho, prick vibes
More narcissist, less psycho,but it's still there.
Yeah, I think it had to be.
It was either delusion ordenial about the safety.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
I think it's both.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Denial for sure, because he really thought that
it wasn't going to matter.
Ambition blinds.
Yeah, you hear, like the one,like, so we watched two.
The one on Netflix we just saw,yeah, that had a lot more of

(23:39):
which I like to hear quotes orwhat he's saying, and you get to
hear him speak.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
When that guy came in with his concerns, defensive.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Immediate.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
A defensive teenager.
Yes, he was cutting them off.
This guy's an engineer.
He was very smart, veryqualified, and he voiced his
concerns.
Oh, the guy who was counting hevoiced his concerns in a
professional way too, for sure,as safe as he could, his
concerns.
Oh, the guy who was counter hevoiced his concerns in a
professional way too For sure,as safe as he could.
Yeah, and it wasn't good enough.
And it's like when you have abelief, like, say, I have a

(24:15):
strong belief, and you, emily,attack that belief, you aren't
attacking me, but because ofthat belief, like that belief is
like part of my body, yeah, ina way you're attacking me.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
And I think like it was very personal.
He has people around him whowould not push back, who
wouldn't challenge, or, if theydid, they're fired.
Yeah, like.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
He was just.
He's a guy who is always usedto be told yes, so if you say no
to him, he doesn't know what todo with himself.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, and you mentioned earlier I wanted to
unpack it.
His wife came from wealth.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
What Do you remember?

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, so she is the descendants of Ida and Isadora
Strauss, and they were the oldcouple in the bed in the movie
Titanic.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
And they were the founders of Macy's.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Wow, correct.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
I know things.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think yeah, it was a famous
story because she apparently Idon't know why it was in the
final cut, but I mean threehours 15 minutes.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yeah, you got to trim stuff yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
But I think I saw an outtake and it was Like a
deleted scene.
Yeah, and it was.
She got into it and then gotback on the boat deck.
Oh okay, and at that time itwas clear that the ship was
going to sink as well.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
So those are the real sad ones.
Yeah, Like anybody getting intoa lifeboat after see After 1.30
, knew they're getting in andthey're going to watch the ship
sink.
I do have something I want tosay.
I do believe what these peopleare saying about Stockton, the

(25:52):
people who worked for them.
They are still talking about itwith the luxury of hindsight
it's after the fact and they'resaying things and talking about
things about a guy who's notcurrently there to defend
himself.
It is still believe them, butit is much more convenient.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
So I do wonder, from an embellishing standpoint, um,
but like the writing was on thewall even even before okay, I
had this, or I had this thought,and then I kind of saw it on
tiktok which, honestly, like Ishould just cite tiktok as like
the majority of my rightinformation because I go to like
tiktok university yeah butsomeone said like do you think

(26:35):
he was like kind of on, likemaybe like a suicide mission,
but it kind of murder suicide,because it was like he knew it
was going to fail and he didn'twant to live in the failure.
And then he just happened totake four other people down with
him and collected their moneyon the way out.
You know, like what do you?
What do you think thepsychology is behind him?

(26:58):
He, he heard the pops.
You hear it in all the footagethat's been released, in all
these documentaries.
You hear the creaking and thepops.
Hear it in all the footagethat's been released.
In all these documentaries youhear the creaking and the pops,
which are terrifying, but it'she hears it and he still ignores
it.
Do you think he knew this isnever going to happen and just
decided to kind of go down withthe ship?

Speaker 3 (27:16):
um, I mean, if that's true, he really is a psycho,
because there's, you know whynot just go down by yourself?

Speaker 1 (27:22):
13 year old on there and those other people, yeah,
yeah, and he took their moneybefore he he went.
Yeah, you know um.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
The first one on max, kind of got into that that he
was facing a bankruptcy andneeded to cash in.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
But yeah, like I mean , it wasn't mentioned on the net
.
Yeah, he had gone for so longof this not working that finally
he was just like no, we'regoing to do it.
We're going to do it.
That's why he got so defensivefor any opposition.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, I think because of his personality and, granted
, I think people overuse theword narcissist, but I do think
it applies to him and because itdoes, it is a sickness.
He had put time and years and alot of face time because he did
seem to want fame, he seemed tolike the camera time.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
He would contact news sources to be like hey, this is
what we're doing, Want to comelook?

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, and the way he posed in the photos.
He wanted to look like a stevejobs, like yeah, I don't, you
know what I'm trying to say likeI can see him talking to karen
like, no, no, I want this angle.
Or uh, this look, yeah, um, hewould bring a lot of things back
to him.
When I heard him talking aboutwhat they had accomplished, I
noticed that.
So, yeah, it makes perfectsense, because the pain of

(28:42):
failure or the pain of someonesaying this is not going to work
.
We are shutting this down.
That might he can't take that.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
And then that means all the people who said this
isn't a good idea can say I toldyou so.
I told you this five years ago.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
He doesn't want to face being wrong.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Right.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
He would have to be in like a, and he would have to
like face, you know, like ahearing Right and just be and
look stupid doing it.
He has too much ego for that.
So I can totally get that he'sthinking about his legacy.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
So well, now he's got a hell of a plan.
At least I have a legacy.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Well, what did the guy say?
It gave so.
Well, at least I have a legacy.
Well, what the guy say?

Speaker 1 (29:21):
it gave me chills when he's like he won a fame,
yeah and he got it, he got itand he got it.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah, I mean, he might have said the truthful
part out loud right there.
He won a fame and he got itRight.
It's all disgusting when, likethat one girl she was the
engineer or she she was alsoyeah, well, like there was a few
, one was an accountant.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, she wanted her to steer it.
She's like I'm an accountant.
She's like an accountant.
She's like I'm here.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
As time went on, more and more he started to be more
and more qualified people left.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, so he started to bump up people.
Yeah, I know who you're talkingabout the blonde girl who she
was.
She started out as like astudent at the university of
washington and she started tokind of move her way up in the
company and he was like, oh,he's like I want you to be the
face of the company.
It shouldn't be a 60 year oldman.
It should be a young woman hewanted a woman revolutionary.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
He wanted a woman to drive, because that would give
him a face of like oh we haveour first woman driver.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, it's a new sense of notoriety.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
It's a little, yeah, like it's mildly political and
it's going to be, picked up.
It's a sense of wokeness, likeit's going to be picked up on
networks and give him FaceTime.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
For sure, it's just a new publicity route.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
We're going to have you drive with this PlayStation
controller.
I sure it's just a newpublicity route.
I'm gonna have you drive withthis playstation controller.
I know that in itself, uh, justthe.
I mean I don't know if itworked or not, but just the.
The view of it, how it looks,should be like yeah, how about
we don't have a playstationcontroller for something
somebody pays 250 grand for?
Go two and a half miles belowthe surface.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
Right.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
I don't know that.
Yeah, he the way, his posture,his demeanor, his facial
expressions I'm not bodylanguage expert, but I'm also
not blind.
He had the posture of someonewho had something to prove,

(31:18):
always like defensive yeah, just, you really can't cover
insecurity, and he just had anaura of it.
And what everybody says abouthim working for him, it just all
lines up.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
And it just seemed like it becomes a cult where,
like, if everybody's saying thesame thing or supporting this,
you're kind of like am I goingnuts?

Speaker 1 (31:44):
yeah, like wait, am I wrong?

Speaker 3 (31:46):
yeah, it's gaslighting where it's like.
You know, in the one on hbo shewas like saying to the guy I'm
I'm really concerned about thewhole and they're like, we know,
we're really concerned aboutyou yes, we don't think you're
innovative yeah, and she waslike well, maybe it is me if I
were, I would have saidinnovative bitch like this isn't
art

Speaker 2 (32:05):
right, like you don't like science.
Think outside the box.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
No it's like carbon fiber.
It has never been approved andthis whole thing like why was it
not tested without people?

Speaker 1 (32:15):
let me ask you this because you're more like in the
know.
Let me ask you this becauseyou're more like in the know has
his wife, have her?
Has she been to like thehearings?
Has she been interviewed?
Has anything of hers beenreleased?
Because I would love to knowwhat the hell she's got to say.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
I did look that up and no, she's kept a very low
profile.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Right, Because I was.
I Googled it and I was like,well, maybe my Google searches
and also I was kind of likerushing.
But I would love to know whatthis lady has to say, Because,
was she, did she believe in thisso much and believe in him so
much that she just went alongwith it?
Is she as delusional?
Is she as crazy?

(32:53):
Did she like?
What's her angle in this?

Speaker 3 (32:57):
Well.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Also, she knew the dangers.
Or did she not care about thedangers as well?
You know like what.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
So the first answer?
Um, so the first answer.
She's kept a very low profileand she hasn't commented at all
because, like, because theyhaven't reached a conclusion for
the hearings.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Right.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Um, so I think her and ocean gate are just not
saying anything right.
Uh, which saying anything right?
Which is what you smart right,yeah from a legal perspective.
Um, she was the one.
Have you seen the video wherethey say here is when they heard
the implosion?

Speaker 1 (33:27):
yeah, she hears it and then she kind of like that
was her.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Did you know that was her okay like I didn't know
that till recently, like that'slike her and another which is
ironic.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
They looked at each other and she was like what was
that?

Speaker 2 (33:36):
yeah, she was like what was that?

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, she was like what was that?
It's like that was your husbanddying.
Did you like not realize?
Did she not realize it?

Speaker 3 (33:43):
Not at the time.
No, it was just a, I mean likeit probably wasn't the first
crack, but well.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
I mean, but that wasn't a crack, that was a
different.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, oh yeah, the ocean, because I heard something
900 miles away.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
I don't know how sound travels underwater, but
something about, uh, somebodypicked up the implosion sound
900 miles away.
Right, so it does travel orsomething.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
Yeah, um that I don't know what, what, exactly how.
They heard it, that clip ofwhen it happened in real time
and she's on the walkie talkieand they said something about
drop weights yeah and then aradio message came in, but that
radio message was actuallybefore the implosion.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
It just traveled slower.
Yeah, because it just tookslower.
So she thought, I guess shethought all was well, yeah, yeah
.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Like she was smirking .
Yeah, I have no idea what she'sgetting her.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
What is she thinking?
All this Because she did loseher husband.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
But it's like they all ignored the signs of it.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
They don't really even talk about her much in both
documentaries.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
I know, I suspect, I'm sure it was by design it's
probably a legal thing too.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
If you talk about me or my family, we can sue or
something she comes from.
Well, so, like I'm sure theyknow about lawyers, you know I
mean do you remember that quotefrom I forget who?

Speaker 1 (35:11):
oh wait, tony neeson said it.
When they fired david lockridgehe, stockton, told neeson he
was like that he doesn't mindspending fifty thousand dollars
to ruin someone's life and thatwhen he said that to him it like
sent a chill up his spine andhe was like, oh shit, like this
guy's fucking nuts it was thewords which were rough, but also

(35:34):
just the it's, the callousness.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Yeah, it was his demeanor that got him.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
I think I don't care like who gives a fuck.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Yeah, what exactly did he mean by that?
I don't.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, it was his demeanor that got him.
I think, like I don't care,like who gives a fuck.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, what exactly did he mean by that?
I don't mind spending 50.
So it?

Speaker 1 (35:43):
was when David Lockridge was saying he was
gonna kind of go public about ityeah.
And so he was like he's likeI'm gonna discredit him before
he can discredit this project.
Oh God yeah no-transcript.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Some good people who were on the project, who stuck
to their principles yeah andjust had to go.
So like the truth is is therewere a lot of warning signs.
It was people just quittingyeah, like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
At the end, like when everything happened, they were
very like the people lots ofpeople are like oh god, of
course.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yeah, there were people who were very like the
people.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Lots of people are like, oh God, of course, yeah,
there were people who were stillon the project, but they were
lower, lower level.
They didn't have any more likedirectors of operation, director
of marine ops and engineering.
It was like it wasn't thepeople who had, you know, all
this years of knowledge and thatshould have been attached to
the project.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah, um, they said something about um Stockton.
An interview was saying it'spretty much invulnerable and the
interviewer said well, that'swhat they said about, uh,
titanic and I, of course I getthe reference, what they mean.
But and where I'm going withthis is kind of what we started

(37:22):
earlier, where comparing what'sworse, mm-hmm, like we know
what's worse from like a tragedystandpoint Like a human life.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Standpoint Right.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
It's just so much more human.
So of course the Titanic ismore tragic.
But my question is what do youthink is more negligent?

Speaker 1 (37:42):
More well.
I mean, I guess you can make alist for both of them.
Titanic could be more negligentbecause they didn't have enough
lifeboats to for all thepassengers aboard, they didn't
load all the lifeboats, theydidn't have the proper like
binoculars, or they didn't havethe proper equipment to see the
iceberg in time.
There's a lot there, but at thesame time titan, I don't know

(38:08):
I'm I don't know.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
I want to say I think titan is more negligent because
I'll say what I feel all rightand then I'll let you and it'll
fill you with more information.
Okay, first off, you cite thelifeboats.
Of course is valid, but in thecase of titanic it would not
have made a difference.

(38:31):
True, it went beneath the waterat 2 20 am and the last
lifeboat was launched at 2 0, 5am, so they couldn't have loaded
them all up anyway, so still alarge amount of people were
going to die.
I guess you can make theargument well, there's still 16
boats on board that when theship sinks, those boats are
going to float.
So you have, but then again,it's 28-degree water, the air

(38:52):
temperature is 33 degrees.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah, those people didn't stand a chance on making
it in the boat.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
If you're in the water, yeah.
If you're in the water, yeah.
If you're in the water even fortwo minutes and then get out,
you can most still die.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Right.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
So the binoculars in the crow's nest.
I don't think would have made adifference.
Wasn't there a story about howthe person who was supposed to
be, like I don't know, thelookout guy, he their like main
person person?
I feel like I'm talking in likereally layman terms.
He was supposed to be there andthen he didn't make the ship,
so he didn't bring all theequipment that was necessary.

(39:32):
Am I making this up?

Speaker 3 (39:34):
um, like a lot of people make a big deal out of
the fact that they were lookingfor icebergs with the naked eye.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
And they didn't have binoculars.
Well, people use binoculars asan option or as like a
confirmation, as a confirmationof something.
It's not for something you'rejust doing, because when you're
scanning the horizon, they'redoing it with the naked eye.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
Because it's just more practical, it's a better.
Wide view yeah, because it'sjust more practical, it's a
better wide view yeah.
You know what I mean.
And then you use the binocularsto get more specifics, so
that's kind of just yeah itdoesn't really.
Here's what I have as far ascomparing what was more
incompetent.
And it's not even close Titan,because for the negligence to be

(40:21):
comparable, thomas Andrews, whois the ship's designer of
Titanic, he would have to saysomething of like if there are
10 compartments breached, shestill stays afloat.
But she sank with six flooded.
It was never misadvertised.

(40:43):
It was known that she couldstay afloat with four
compartments flooded.
That's 220 feet of damage.
So Titanic can stay afloat with220 feet of damage.
It's a very safe ship.
The odds of that kind ofcollision are a million to one.
We really look at it as reallya negligent hindsight and there

(41:09):
is some truth to it, but notnearly as bad as people think,
because for the time they weredoing everything that they were
supposed to be doing.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, it's not like we're in present day.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Stockton was not doing things he was supposed to
be doing.
Yeah's not like we're in.
Stockton was not doing thingshe was supposed to be doing yeah
, he didn't give a fuck exactly.
But titanic was doing thingsthey were supposed to be doing,
which, in hindsight, weren'tgood.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
But right and that's why we but that's why we learned
, that's why we have changes.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah and so they had the lookouts posted.
Uh, they told them about iceand they told them to look for
ice.
Yeah, they had these warningson radio about icebergs.
Radio then was pretty new, so,like they had these ice warnings
that four or five years agoships didn't have yet Ships

(41:53):
weren't hitting icebergs leftand right, then it common sense
tells you a Berg, an iceberg,that's big enough to really
cause us damage.
We're gonna see in time.
And that's true to an extent.
But they just turned at theexact right time and it skidded
the side.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Had they hit it head on, it would have been fine I
was gonna say that I had heardthat and I was gonna ask you if
that it would have damaged thefuck out of it, but it would not
have sank.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
It would not have sank had it not been such a calm
night.
They might have seen theiceberg much sooner, because you
see waves when there's windHitting the iceberg.
Like they aren't looking forthe berg itself.
What they're looking for is thechange in pattern of waves.
He did mention that in themovie when he's on the bridge
with the captain.

(42:38):
Yeah, it's probably why youwould call it and uh like the
iceberg itself.
I mean again.
What I'm saying is like 10, 15separate things when put
together make that night aperfect night for disaster.
If you take away one of thosethings, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
Right.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
So it was just a perfect storm.
Yeah, things it's fine.
Right, so it was just a perfectstorm.
Yeah, um, the iceberg itselfwas a rareberg.
It was like a blueberg is whatthey call it at sea, like a
blackberg.
Um, it's a iceberg that hasrecently turned over in the
water, so it's gone turtle inthe water, so you have clear ice
in the middle and not the whitesnowy thing.

(43:17):
Right, like that we picture,yeah, you know, like like the
polar bears romping around onand at night, pretty invisible,
right, um, like the way it wascold in the flat calm it made it
hard to tell, like the horizon,and I don't know the physics of
it, but I heard someone explainit where it would be.
The same thing of when it's ahot day and you're driving on

(43:38):
the road and you see what lookslike water on the pavement dead
ahead mirage yeah that hadsomething to do with as well
okay, it was just yeah, um, soit shouldn't have sink.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
It would not sink in most in most scenarios titan was
going to implode that was goingto happen, no matter what.
It was just a matter of when.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
So that's my angle as far as what's more negligent.
Yeah, Now, Titanic did havesome warnings from other ships
about ice.
It did like a lot of peopledon't know this.
It did take a misdirection andthe captain veered a 20 miles
south, so he did change hiscourse.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
And then also he was going faster so that he could
make a better time, thank you,they were going too fast.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
That's the with the argument I'm making.
That's the biggest strikesomeone would have on me.
Like the speed they were going.
It still was normal in thosetimes.
But if they had he seen all theice warnings he didn't see them
all then I think he would haveslowed it down.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Right.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Had a Murdoch not stopped and he did a hard
starboard, which is left, andthen he stopped and reversed the
engines.
That made the rudder far lesseffective, how they kept going
full speed and just went hard tostarboard like they probably
would have missed it.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Clearly titan is more negligent, I think yeah yeah it
absolutely is I mean I would,yeah, I would agree with that,
because it that was going, thisdisaster was going to happen, no
matter what.
It's just a matter of when itwas going to happen and who was
going.
This disaster was going tohappen, no matter what.
It's just a matter of when itwas going to happen and who was
going to be on it.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
Like, as far as he should have stopped it
immediately.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
He should have stopped it years, years prior
yeah, um, oh, he's hard-headed.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Yeah, um, people, he just didn't listen to reason
yeah, because he was driven byhis own ego.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, he was blind and Do you think it was the fame
that made him blind, or youthink it was his own ego, that
he just needed to be right?
I have to be right, I have tobe right.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
He had dug himself in a hole, of having to be right
that he was in too deep to where, if he dug out, he would look
like a failure yeah and all thatpress he had done and all the
claims he had made and the moneyhe invested yeah he couldn't
because he was being cheap withcertain things, where he talked
about a certain cost, very cheap, like a parent.
Well, yeah, I think that mightbe kind of the thing.

(46:13):
Uh, steel and titanium areapparently much more expensive.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, and they mentioned.
They said you would need abigger ship to.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
It costs a lot more to ship it because it weighs so
much more.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, so and they would need different kind of
machinery to even just put it inthe water.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
It's just dude.
If you're going two and a halfmiles below the ocean like more,
a convenience should not reallybe on your top three list,
right.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Convenience yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Like it's not, it's, you're going to kill people.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Like it's risky down there.
Yeah, of course it's risky.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
The more we unpack him, the more I think he
definitely had.
I don't know if it was suicidalor blind psycho, but he surely
he was.
I mean, you know, he went toschool, he did engineering.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, but they did say he wasn't the best student.

Speaker 3 (47:03):
Yeah, yeah, they showed his report card.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
And I think that bugged him too, is that like?
He wasn't the best, he wasn'tvaledictorian, you know Like.
I think that bothered him aswell.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
I was part of an online Titanic society group.
I was part of an online Titanicsociety group.
I was in college.
I was part of TitanicHistorical Society.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
What years are these?
This is 2005.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Okay and so.
Yeah, it was like a messageboards, which they still have,
but it was much more simple inthose days and I was the
moderator on some Titanic groups.
Emily, it's a bunch of virgins,it's a bunch of Titanic nerds.

(47:52):
I mean, I'll cut through ithere.
Hi, I'm Michael, I'm here.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
You didn't need to out yourself like that.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
I was gone for a little bit.
I was the moderator on messageboards and it was just like we
all had, like it was just abunch of people who wanted to
talk about Titanic but that'swhat the message boards are
about but it was like a job thatyou're not getting paid for,
but you're getting paid.

(48:22):
You know you're getting paidwith a camaraderie.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Over the computer.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
You had parasocial relationships with other Titanic
lovers.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
And you learn things Cause I, you learn things, so we
all help each other out.
Like I might have a question,you know, and that I wasn't sure
I was like.
You know, like when box hallwent down to the mail room, was
it really 14 feet above keel?
You know they're like.
No, I was 12.
I mean, dude, like there'slevels yeah shit like there's no
way.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Then there's like like like I said, I knew you
were gonna come way moreprepared than I was so I.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
That's why I was like oh crap, um, anyways so like
I'll read how I want to say thisas much of a dork as I am, as
much as know, somebody out therealways knows more.
My username was Fred Fleet 32.
Frederick Fleet was the guy whospotted the iceberg, iceberg
right ahead.
He ended up killing himself whenhe was older and my other

(49:14):
username was Iceberg Boss.
Like we would like HappyWednesday.
Everybody Like what's on themenu for tonight and we knew
what was on the first classdining room menu.
So it's almost like we'resaying, oh I'm hungry for some,
but I'm hungry for some, and uh,what was?

(49:35):
What was it?

Speaker 1 (49:35):
um, I was gonna say what was on the menu.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah, well, I wrote uh, a good evening, old man.
Like that's an old Brit term,so you know we got to keep it.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Yeah, keep it authentic In those days too.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
Yeah, it's kind of like those old plays when
they're like the Declaration ofIndependence.
It's like I'm Ben Franklin, youhave like your wig, you know.
Except I'm 23 here, not 10.
So good evening, old man.
On the menu tonight is grilledmutton chops, mashed, fried and

(50:08):
baker jack potatoes and Victoriapudding.
God, there's great food onTitanic, Does that sound?

Speaker 1 (50:13):
like a meal you'd want to eat.
Oh yeah, that sounds terribleto me.
Well.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
I mean, like that was one of many but I'm also being
accurate here.
I believe I believe you.
Oh, that was on an entree umthe first class dining room,
which was, I think, on e-deckanyways.
Um, somebody would join in onthe message board and say pass
the pass the veneer and gramrolls, you know, because that
was something.
And I would say like, like theycalled me a troll and I call

(50:42):
you a troll yeah, but this tothem was trolling.
Okay, I don't think it's thatrude.
That's why it's funny they takeit so seriously and I'd say
beef, stew and hash and somebodywould type third class.
What's a steers passenger doingin here?
You know?

Speaker 1 (50:58):
um, you're right, it was a bunch of virgins on the
computer I think so.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
Yeah, that's just, I didn't see him, but I have a
visual yeah, I can picture butit's kind of funny.
I was like pretty swollenjacked at 23 and like I'm the
football player, right, I washomecoming king, you know.
So that's kind of like a guiltypleasure, like it's kind of
like porn.
It's like what is he doing hisspare time?
Like?
I caught you like I wasn't doinganything.
Well, like I'm looking upscores, who won the game?

(51:26):
Oh no, yeah, that no, I justrealized like it wasn't like I,
I didn't share it with people Ithink not many people knew.
Well, no, they knew abouttitanic, but they didn't know I
was like you're like passion,yeah, this yeah, um then, I
troll as iceberg boss becausepeople didn't know it was you.

(51:48):
Well, well, like I had two yeah, handles two usernames, emily,
come on.
I mean, I kind of had accesscause I uh, I moderated message
boards, two of them, wherepeople are like hey, hey, hey,
I'm going to block you from this, you can't be cussing like that
, and I'm like what the fuck,who the fuck are you?

(52:09):
Oh my God, as Iceberg Boss, Iwould come in to like a party in
third class because it had likedifferent events, but they had
to be real things, oh, okay.
And what's the band playing?
And it had to be like what wasthe band playing?
Or what was on the menu, whatwere the appetizers?
Or like if someone saw oh, likeI saw Murdoch strolling by.

(52:32):
Like no, he's not on duty rightnow.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Oh my God.
So it's like these people areplaying like sims, almost with a
real life event.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
Yeah, they're larping but on the computer.
What did they sing at mass onsunday?
It was uh for those in peril atthe sea.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
You know like I saw that in the movie they did.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
yeah, they oh, oh, yeah, no, uh, they were singing
it, it was that song, but but Idon't think You're like wrong
day bitch.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
I don't think they saw.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Perils of the Sea.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
I kind of got defensive there, saying no, you
don't, I did it's like you were23 again.
No, I'm mature now.
We got good stuff, don't we?

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
Has any girl made you laugh?

Speaker 1 (53:25):
like this Huh, has any girl made you laugh like
this?
Huh, has any girl made you?

Speaker 3 (53:28):
laugh like this.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
I mean, yeah, I laugh all I mean, but why do I ask
that?
I feel like I just hurt yourfeelings.
That competitiveness like thatwas super competitive, I see,
yeah yeah, but no, that's badright.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
Like, especially like you know.
Like, like, instead of goingout and I didn't- know, no
wonder I didn't get any actionin college.
I didn't go out.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
You could have went to a bar instead, or a college
party, a sorority party, afootball party.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
I was on the team, I was good.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
They're like where's Michael?
I don't know, all right.
So I always ask my guests totell a gremlin story, and you
had asked what that is.
I told you you could have beendrunk, you could have been high,
you could have been sober.
It's just embarrassing or funny.
It's mainly just to bring usall together, that we're all

(54:22):
people and embarrassing, and youhave been chuckling about it
since you got here.
I don't know what it is yet.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
I can't imagine because I can't imagine I'll try
to focus and make it like asclean and direct as possible,
without me veering off and doingwhat I do.
I first moved out here.
I was a boxer.
I was in a pro boxing camp.
We lived in Marina del Rey.
We trained in Carson.
When I was living at theseapartments there's a girl, she

(54:51):
worked at the leasing office andher and I started talking and
we went on Long story short.
I got pretty attached, but it'snot like we were even really
talking that long.
Or even boyfriend, girlfriend,um, like three dates hooked up a
couple times, uh it was coollike.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
So it was like casual dating yes for her.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Yes, okay, um, uh, we went to like basketball games
and um went out to eat and uh,anyways, I liked her.
Um, she, she comes by one night.
Well, she comes by one night.
And this is where, like youknow, I I was talking about if I

(55:34):
were a dog, a husky, okay youknow, maybe a little dramatic
yeah um, I think she planned onit being kind of like brief.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Like you and her Like it being a fling.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
No, what she came to do.
Oh, she came by to just say shecan't really hang out anymore.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Still wants to be friends and she still works
there, but she can't be.
We can't be like going out andbe hooking up.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Which having twice like, but in my mind what's
happened 100 times?
In my mind because I relive itokay.
Yeah, that's the embarrassingpart.
I was kidding anyways, anyways.
But so she came by just to tellme that.
But it kind of got drawn out toan hour because I was just like
devastated okay like gutted yeahum, but I just, but I just gave

(56:22):
you the facts and I see yourface when I'm saying, gutted,
like yeah, okay, like that'ssuccessive right and um, um, so
it was time for her to go and Iwas like let's walk her out the
door.
And I was like, and I, I thinkI offered her a drink or what I
was like, and she was like, oh,like made a noise, like, oh,

(56:44):
like she was like feeling bad.
Yeah, I broke down, she walksout.
I I chase her outside likethink like helen hunk, tom helen
hunt, tom hanks, and cast awayyou know like what was his name
Runs out in the rain.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah, I know yeah, and she's like chasing him down
the driveway.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Which is a little more justified than me.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Than your situation.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
And she's also a girl and I was a heavyweight boxer,
male, still male, and I'mrunning out towards her, emily,
and then I start jogging, likeI'm like no, her name's not,
like not.
And then, uh, I see her, like,as I'm coming towards you, like
looking around, like oh god likeyeah, I hug her and whisper

(57:35):
like I I love you and I hear,hear, okay, michael.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Yeah, there's not really a better response other
than that.
Okay, Michael.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Almost like okay, you little fucking Like she just
patted you on the head and saidit's time to go.
Okay, I'm like I'm souncomfortable now.
Oh for sure, was her subtext.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
But that's not the embarrassing part.
Oh, I was new to Facebook.
Oh God, heart.
Oh, um, I was new to facebook.
Oh god, I was new to facebookand um, I was uh brand.
I just got facebook, maybe likea couple months later or
something, and I was late tofacebook.
Why do I keep saying that?
Because I'm not.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
I wasn't really good at it, I wasn't well coordinated
in it, so that is valid okay Ithought I was searching for her
name oh my god, I feel like Iknow what you're gonna say but
when the status update?

Speaker 3 (58:26):
so what's on your mind, michael?
And let's just say her name isemily hogan.
It was like you just kepttyping in the name I typed in
the name and then in my mind, Ihit search and you hit submit
and you posted it.
Yeah and then I'm like what thefuck just happened?
and then I so, I, oh, and then Ifound the search box right
having forgotten that I justposted the status update and so

(58:49):
um, she was just scared I godshe didn't yeah um no, she
wasn't like scared, because shewasn't, you know, because I was
a softy, but she was like I, Idon't know, I don't know like I
can tell you what my thoughtswould have been.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yeah, go, I would have thought what's on?

Speaker 3 (59:08):
your mind, emily hogan like this guy.
He went on two dates with Iwould have blocked you.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
It's possible.
I would have switched my jobsto like a different leasing
office.
I would have been like I needto cut ties with this guy
because he's a little obsessive.
That's what I would havethought.
Not, I know you now but Ididn't do that.
It was by mistake, though yeah,no and I know you now, but I'm
saying if I was her back then ontwo dates, I would have been

(59:37):
like this guy is going to belike a future Joe Goldberg from
you.
Did you ever watch that showyou?

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Uh you, this isn't the first time you've accused me
of the you.
This is the first time you'veaccused me of the you.
That's a keeper.
So yeah, I'm aware of it onlybecause you mentioned it to me a
few years back.
So, yeah, I'm aware of it onlybecause you mentioned to me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
A few years back did you tell me a similar story
what's that?
Did you tell me a similar story?

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
who knows, emily, I think, um, no, I think you may
have just been commenting on myrecent behavior.
Yeah, I'm sorry, no, butanyways, uh, you know what?
What was?

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
the aftermath of this whole thing.
After you put, when you postedit, how long did it take for you
to take it down?

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
I think I heard that she was laughing her ass off the
next day when she heard I Imade a mistake, so it was you
know okay like, like for likeshe, I think she saw me as just
um what I was like a puppy dognew, uh, yeah, just not in many
relationships, uh and just in uh, she had like this perception

(01:00:55):
of indiana, like like shethought I grew up on a farm and
I didn't but so she saw me aslike even more naive than I was.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
And you're like big and new in the city.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
I actually was naive, but she saw me even more than
that.
So in her mind, which is whyshe thought the Facebook thing
was funny.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
But it's also kind of an insult to me because I
should know better because Ididn't grow up on a farm.
So it just keeps coming back tolike, yeah, like there's no
scenario where I look good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
That's why it's a gremlin story.
Yeah, you, you don't end uplooking.
You're not your best self.
At the end of the day, it'sjust a story where you're like
well, shit I think, that wasthat well, yeah, a narcissist
will.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
So a narcissist will never have a gremlin story.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
It'll always be like them being a hero they, yeah,
they are, because usually theydon't like to lose control.
Nope, nope.
And gremlins lose control, noton a consistent basis, but
enough times where they can talkabout it on the podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
And I'll give another one that's embarrassing and
quicker.
I was at a college party.
I played football in Kentuckyand for fall break I went to my
best friend's college in Indiana.
It was DePaul University In2004,.
It was like 30 grand a year.
It's a rich boy's place.
I went to a frat party thereand there was this girl I was

(01:02:19):
talking to, but I didn't see herand I was getting wasted, which
is rare.
But I was getting wasted, andso this is where the drunk part
lies in.
It was a narrow hallway.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
So narrow that I thought if I was on the ground
like my feet could touch.
Oh you know, and she waswalking towards us and I'm just
drinking with my friends andlike, if you're my friends, you
know we're sitting here talkingand for like, like, I'll say

(01:02:56):
from my perspective what I wasthinking.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
And then I'll say probably what they were thinking
Mm-hmm, which order is funnier?

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
I want to know what yours is, mine first, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
I was thinking, oh, she's coming this way, she might
see just this big guy, but Iwant to show that I'm athletic
and coordinated.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
Which is weird, but also okay.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Also, when you're drunk, you're not athletic and
coordinated.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Yeah, or in this case , the hallway wasn't short
enough.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
I thought I was going to jump into a Spider-Man.
Oh, and like Bam no, like Goyeah because hallway, hallway,
and I thought I was tall enough.
It was a narrow, you know, likea dorm hallway.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
I thought I was tall enough.
It was a narrow, you know, likea dorm hallway.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Yeah, um, I thought I was narrow, I thought I would
be tall enough for my feet totouch, my hands to touch and I
would just sit there and look ohmy god like a gymnast so you're
in the sitting position, so mygoal is to look like a gymnast
for a girl.
That's just funny in itself,and I failed at that because I
just landed on my fucking I wasgonna say you just tailbone,
yeah, you just fell.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
So you just jumped in the air and fell on your ass
from their perspective.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
I see her coming like guys bam, and I made this face
according to them, which is likeI mean it could have been worse
.
My tailbone it was bad, butlike I have thick glutes, so I
have thick glutes, so thatsounds funny.
No, but my butt helped.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
I was squatting a lot that summer, so sturdy spine
Just did that, yeah, and so that, yeah, she didn't.
She wasn't impressed I thinkshe just walked over me Because
I'm on the ground like well,yeah, I mean unless she's going

(01:04:47):
nurse you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Yeah, she didn't ask if you, okay, yeah, she could
have been like, oh my god, areyou okay?

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
and you know she probably saw him.
He's like this fucking psycho.
That's weird.
Yeah, I'm gonna go join myfriends over there, yeah, yeah,
he's trying to like commitsuicide to his lumbar.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Yeah, I don't think she was able to probably process
what you just did yeah becauseor maybe she would I really want
.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
I want the truth to be.
If you asked her then thatnight she would have been like
who?

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Yeah, like she didn't remember.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Yeah, which is really a life lesson.
It's a spotlight effect.
No one's analyzing you as muchas you're analyzing yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
But in the case of this, I'm not saying that's not
worth analyzing.
I'm sure people noticed it.
Well, that's something they donotice like don't like what did
I try to do there?

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
I try to do something and then I corrected myself
yeah, that was funny, that was agood one.
Well, yeah, and you gave us twoperfect yay badass badass.
No one's giving me two gremlinstories before.
I haven't even said two gremlinstories before.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
Which one did you like better?
I kind of gave three, in a way,because the breakup with her
and the Facebook status update,and then the dorm tailbone.
That's true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
I'm going to use both , so it doesn't matter which one
I like better.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
Sweet.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
I'm not picking and choosing, so it doesn't matter
which one I like.
Better Sweet, I'm not pickingand choosing.
Both are going up there, sothat's pretty much the episode
Two Gremlin stories later Do youhave any socials that you want
to give out to the peoples?

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
I do improv at the West Side Comedy Theater in
Santa Monica.
I'm on a team that performsthere Monday nights.
We only have one more show leftand then we have to do another
residency, but our team iscalled Manta Sonica.
Monday nights, we only have onemore show left and then we have
to do another residency, butour team is called Manta Sonica,
okay.
You know what that means?
Nope, santa Monica, just switchit.
Ah, so clever, yeah, that'scool and yeah, so that's what I

(01:06:32):
would plug.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
That's what you're plugging.
What about?
Do you have any like Instagramor TikToks that you want people
to know about?

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
No yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
All right, and if you want to follow the podcast, you
can follow on Instagram andTikTok Emily to Gremlin Pod.
If you want to submit your owngremlin stories to make Michael
feel better about his, you canemail the podcast at
emilytogremlinpod at gmailcom.
And if you want to watch thisepisode in all its glory, go on

(01:07:03):
YouTube.
Emily to gremlin pod.
It's the same all the wayaround and yeah, like, follow,
share, tell your friends andyeah, that's pretty much it I
forgot.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
Yeah, go ahead say my instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Uh, it's at mikey Huddy there you go yeah, mikey
the Huddy on Instagram andTikTok yes okay, there you go,
and then go follow him too, andyeah, see what the content he
puts out there yeah yeah, allright, michael, let's cheers out
.
Thank you for coming.
Thank you for being a nerd withme.

(01:07:38):
Cheers.
Nerd coming.
Thank you for being a nerd withme, cheers.