July 14, 2024 • 36 mins
Unlock the secrets to becoming a more effective and empathetic leader with insights from Emme Devenish, an executive and leadership coach. This episode unpacks the transformative role of emotional intelligence in leadership, as Emme shares her expertise on ethical stewardship, community service, and continuous education. Learn how a growth mindset, akin to the resilient rings of a tree, can help you navigate challenges and stress, thus boosting your leadership capabilities.
Discover practical strategies to foster creativity, proactivity, and open communication within your teams. Emme and Jami discuss the importance of recognizing and nurturing team members' potential, emphasizing how leaders who create a psychologically safe environment can enhance both productivity and job satisfaction. We delve into the intersection of emotional intelligence and Maslow's hierarchy of needs, exploring how leaders can inspire and motivate their teams through a coaching mindset and by encouraging diverse perspectives.
Gain insights on how visionary leaders from small communities tackle global issues with collaboration and humility. Learn about the power of empathy in leadership and how effective leaders can guide their teams through continuous improvement. The episode concludes with practical tips on managing emotions using Positive Intelligence Quotient (PQ) reps, offering additional resources and a recommended TED Talk for those eager to dive deeper into the topic. This is an episode packed with valuable takeaways for leaders at any stage of their journey.
Show Notes:
Dr. Emme Devonish
Website: www.emmedevonish.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmedevonish
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/emmedevonish/whale-and-ocean-haikus/
Podcast Episode: Solve It for Kids Episode 206: Why are Whales Important? https://www.emmedevonish.com/creative/solve-it-for-kids
TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/fields_wicker_miurin_learning_from_leadership_s_missing_manual?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare
Want to learn how to build your EQ? Let's meet to see if working together is good fit.
* Calendar: https://calendly.com/jami-carlacio/virtual-coffee
* Email: jami@jamicarlacio.com (mailto:%20jami@jamicarlacio.com)
* Find out more about my coaching services: https://jamicarlacio.com
* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jami-carlacio/
* FaceBook: https://www.facebook.com/jamicarlacioEQ
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* YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/jamicarlacio1
* TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jcarlacio
* Substack: https://substack.com/@eqmaven
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jami (00:06):
Hello and welcome to the podcast Emotional Intelligence
your greatest asset and key tosuccess.
I'm your host, Dr Jami Carlacio, coming to you from the Greater
New Haven, Connecticut area.
As a positive intelligence, orPQ, coach, I'm committed to
helping people develop bothemotional intelligence and
(00:26):
mental fitness.
That is, you'll come to regardproblems as situations that help
you learn and grow.
PQ is a way of being and doingin the world that enables you to
develop and sustain a positiverelationship with yourself and
others, at home, at work andeverywhere in between.
Please subscribe to thispodcast and tap the like button
(00:48):
so more people can enjoy thebenefits of PQ.
And now here's the show.
Hello everybody and welcome.
Today we are going to talk aboutleadership, and I am so glad
you're here because leadershipseems to be a very hot topic.
If you are on LinkedIn or ifyou read the internet-- read
(01:10):
stuff on the internet-- you knowthat people are talking about
leadership because people areagreeing that there needs to be
some changes in the way that wethink about leadership and the
way that we lead.
And I have a fabulous guesthere whose specialty is
leadership.
Her name is Emme Devonish, andI'm going to tell you a little
bit about Emme and then we'lllaunch into the episode.
(01:33):
So Emme is an author, s he's anexecutive coach, consultant,
and educator who cares deeplyabout ethical stewardship of the
environment (yay) and serviceto her community.
She is a certified executivecoach, a certified leadership
coach, a certified North Starcoach (sister, how long do these
(01:57):
certifications go?
).
She's a certified culture coach, mindset coach, an emotional
intelligence coach (yes), and acompliance and ethics
professional and a humanresources management certified
professional, an internationalcoaching federation professional
, and she's licensed to practicelaw in the state of New York,
(02:19):
which I think is amazing.
I don't know when you sleep andyou must be about 80 years old
by now, but I know you're not.
She is the principal of CreativeCompliance Communication
Services at LLC, and I'm goingto put my glasses on so I can
(02:40):
see the rest.
She specializes in ethics,compliance, culture and
leadership, with a focus onteaching clients the importance
of emotional intelligence toignite behavioral change and
develop visionary leaders andgoodness knows we need visionary
leaders.
Her coaching and consultingservices incorporate creative
(03:01):
and analytical thinking,compliance with industry
standards, communication ofdiverse ideas and ethical
decision-making to helpindividuals and organizations
branch out to reach theirhighest potential.
And I will put all of Em'sinformation in the show notes.
In case you want to reach outto her, she's on LinkedIn, she
(03:24):
has a website, she has aPinterest site and she has a
really wonderful show calledSolve it For Kids.
And this particular one is whyAre Whales Important?
And I think whales are prettyawesome and they are important.
So welcome Em.
Thanks for being here today.
Emme (03:43):
Jami, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here todayto talk about emotional
intelligence and leadership.
I just want to give a shout outto Jennifer Swanson and Jeff
from the Solve it For Kidspodcast.
It's their podcast and theywere lucky enough to share time,
(04:04):
all three of us togethertalking about whales.
So in Florida we have the NorthAtlantic White whale, so we
talked about that extensively.
So I'm just happy to be hereand I look forward to our
conversation.
And you know, and thanks forreading all that long
certification list, but I willtell you, as anyone who knows me
, I say as a North Star coach,that education is my North Star,
(04:28):
and so you know, first andforemost, I'm an educator, so in
coaching, that helps immensely.
So I'm always looking to learnsomething new as well as to
educate my clients at the sametime.
Jami (04:39):
Excellent, and actually that's important because I'm
also an educator, a careereducator and sadly for my son
who gets tired of it, I'm alwaystrying to give him information
and explain things.
And one of the things I likeabout the education thing is
educators are lifelong learnersand I don't know an educator
(05:03):
who-- I mean I hope I don't knowanyone who-- thinks they know
everything already.
I remember when I first startedteaching I thought I had to
know everything, and when I justrelaxed and realized that my
students had a lot to teach me,I learned way more.
And now that I'm older I knowthat I don't know a lot of stuff
.
So I love having an educationalmindset because it's a growth
(05:24):
mindset, right
Emme (05:27):
It is.
It is a growth mindset, andit's also of intelligence, right
, because you you can developyour emotional intelligence, and
so you know that's an educativeprocess.
So you know, just as you said,teaching is a two- way process;
we're learning and growing whilewe're helping others to learn
and grow, and the same can besaid for coaching
Jami (05:51):
Absolutely.
And one thing I think about interms of growth and I thought I
was original in saying this, butapparently Einstein said it
first and that is if we're notlearning and growing, we're
dying.
I think of a tree, and if youcut a tree, you know, saw a tree
and you see all the rings.
What I think is that all ofthose rings represent growth and
(06:17):
development, but the rings arenot perfectly concentric circles
.
They have little curves in thembecause trees have had to
withstand a lot of stress withchanges in the weather, the
climate, or whatever andespecially if they've been
transplanted and I think of mygrowth process like that too, as
(06:38):
these concentric circles, butthat are uneven, because there
are times in my life where thestresses were greater, but
that's where I learned more,that's where the learning was
stronger.
So the rings are stronger there.
And I'm wondering, since youare a leadership coach, I think
about this a lot.
There've been a lot of changesand there's a lot of talk on
(07:02):
LinkedIn and in industry ingeneral about the kinds of
leaders that are more successfuland the kinds of leaders that
are less successful.
Now we need leaders, whetherthey lead a company or CFO,
whatever but ultimately leadersalso help other people and bring
(07:25):
them up and sort of crowdsourceknowledge.
Right, everybody has theknowledge.
I was watching some TED Talksand thinking about leadership
and I'm going to show a clipfrom a TED Talk later, but this
one guy is a composer, and sohis TED Talk was about how
composers can teach us what goodleadership is, and the one that
(07:49):
he highlighted as the best wasthe one in which the conductor
was certainly leading theorchestra with his thing, but
ultimately it was the musiciansthemselves looking at each other
(08:10):
and listening to each other'sinstruments and coming together
as a group.
They were not individual peopleand the conductor wasn't just
doing his thing and tellingeverybody everything, but the
whole orchestra came together inthis beautiful, harmonious,
synchronous sound.
Emme (08:31):
Yeah, what you just described is how the conductor
is able to inspire, correct,motivate and lift the orchestra
up, right, so the individualmembers of that orchestra.
And that's just the same as inleadership.
You need to have the emotionalintelligence where you can
(08:52):
control your own emotions.
You can, you know, stand in aroom and be able to sense what's
happening with other people onyour team and be sensitive to
that, know when to step in andto give instruction, like the
conductor.
Know when to pull back and youknow, know when quiet moments
are necessary, because theaudience is just listening to
(09:16):
what you're delivering as theconductor.
So it's the same thing in termsof leadership.
The orchestra would not besuccessful without both that
symbiotic relationship between aleader who has qualities like
self-control, self-confidence,self-knowing, self-regulation,
but also so he or she can managetheir own emotions, while at
(09:39):
the same time having qualitieslike empathy, relationship
skills, and straightforwardness,so that he can direct or she
can direct members of theorchestra on what to do, but
also understanding the what'shappening with individual people
within that orchestra.
And then also having parts of,you know, emotional intelligence
(10:02):
that involve responding to howthe audience is responding,
which is the same withleadership.
You have to respond to how yourcustomers are responding, your
clients are responding, yourvendors are responding,
teammates are responding, theboard of directors, you know,
responding on different level,and for that you need, you know,
qualities from emotionalintelligence like adaptability.
(10:25):
Right, you need to have optimismwhen things don't go your way,
so that you can still be thereand keep a positive momentum
forward and to help, to lead, up-lead, and I mean that up- lead
(I just made up that word) butto, like you know, move things
upward, raise it up to a higherlevel when things are low, as
(10:46):
well as to uplift people on theteam.
And you know, and part of thatis also self-actualization.
So, which is what I'm all about, right, branching out to reach
your highest potential, beingthat fully formed, you know,
individual in your professionaland personal development and
growth, so that you arecomfortable and confident in
(11:07):
your skin, in your vision of whoyou are, where you are today,
where you want to go in thefuture, how do you want to grow?
How do you want to use yourskills to help humanity?
How do you want to use yourskills to help your community.
How do you want to use yourskills to help the environment?
Because it just it goes beyondthe self, and in order to do
(11:28):
that, you have to have thatemotional intelligence, and
that's what visionary leaders do.
Jami (11:34):
Yeah, yeah.
There's so much that you saidin that I want to just pull a
couple of things out.
One of them is there is a bookcalled Leading Up and I read
that book cover to cover, andthe reason I read it is I was a
managing editor of an academicjournal and I have a lot of
great editorial skills andwriting skills.
But the subject matter of thisacademic journal was not
(11:58):
familiar to me, and so theeditor-in-chief was overall the
selector of which articles wouldgo in each issue.
But I was the editor who editedall the articles, communicated
with the writers and managed theentire marketing and
distribution process.
But the editor-in-chief wasalso a professor and the leader
(12:20):
of this department at an IvyLeague university where I worked
, and she didn't really knowwhat I did.
And she didn't really need toknow.
She just needed to know I did agood job.
But what I did was I read thisbook because I thought you know
what?
She doesn't understand how muchtime it takes and if I'm late
(12:42):
with something, why, or ifthere's a glitch.
So I read this book Leading Upand I started sending her
progress reports on everyjournal issue so that she knew
what the whole process was andhow many people were involved,
and she was like, "oh, I didn'teven know.
And it made the relationshipbetter and we started working
(13:05):
together more as a team becauseshe wasn't just telling me what
to do and I wasn't just kind ofsome lemming that was just
taking directions, and thatactually made a huge difference
in our relationship.
But going into positiveintelligence, which is connected
to emotional intelligence, isyou talked about, you know, this
(13:28):
sort of a top-down approach ormanaging your emotions?
One of the saboteurs is thestickler, and the stickler is
the perfectionist and thecontroller, highly related to
the stickler, wants to have hisor her finger in every single
piece of the pie.
So people don't feel empoweredand they don't feel motivated
(13:51):
and they don't feel inspired tothink outside the box.
And what I'm hearing you sayingis the good leaders are
visionaries but they help otherpeople when they need help, but
they also give them the space tobe creative and proactive.
Emme (14:07):
Yes, 100%.
I mean if we start with thepremise that every person that
gets hired to do a job, thehiring partner, the HR person,
the CEO who hires thatindividual, is hiring him or her
because they think you have theright skills and qualifications
, you have the technicalknowledge and you have a
(14:27):
reasonable amount ofintelligence, right.
So you have the IQ, let's say,you know, in order to perform
the job, and you might have someexperience.
You can get some on- the- jobtraining and experience, but
once you get to the office--whether you're a Gen Z or
millennial or generation Xer, oryou're a baby boomer who's
(14:47):
still in the workforce--basically, once you get to the
office, that's going to help youmeet the minimum standards,
even for yourself as a teammember, you know.
So what you need, then, is theemotional intelligence as a team
member, so that you can, youknow, navigate, meeting new
people, talking to you knowclients and vendors, going to
(15:10):
your boss, like you did withthat article.
I f you notice a need, how doyou translate that into "hi
supervisor?
I've noticed this issue.
Is it okay for me to talk toyou about it?
Or should I just send themarticles, like you did, and
figuring out the right way ofcommunicating with that person
so that you can influencepositive change which improves
(15:32):
productivity.
You get a higher work product.
You feel some satisfaction thatyou've added value and
contributed.
Your supervisor appreciates youand the good leader you know
who has that strong emotionalintelligence will recognize this
is great because this persontook the initiative.
I can give him or her moreresponsibility.
(15:53):
Or you know we made a greatprofit this year.
Or you know we made a greatprofit this year and it's also
thanks to you know,contributions in terms of
helping to manage the team orresolve a difficult issue or
problem solve, and this issomeone that I can trust further
.
Here's someone that I also wantto develop further.
So I'm also going to payattention and notice things and
(16:15):
you know, ask them and talk tothem about where do you want to
grow in the organization.
Or you know, ask them and talkto them about where do you want
to grow in the organization.
Or you know what stage are youin your career development and
planning.
Is there anything that we cando better in our company?
Or do you see any other gaps inany skills where you can help
fulfill that need.
" You know those are.
Those are conversations that arereally important because a lot
(16:37):
of times people leaveorganizations not, you know
because it's either it's arelationship issue and that is
definitely a leadership issue,you know where there is an open
dialogue and open communication,or they feel frustrated and
stifled, that there's either noroom to grow or they're stuck in
a situation where the jobitself has become boring and
(17:00):
they don't see that there may beother roles within the
organization where they can usetheir skills and to learn and to
grow, you know, but the strongleaders will look at their team
and say, hey, I've got a team ofdiverse people with different
skill sets.
We're all working together wellhere, but how can we continue
to develop the team?
(17:20):
How can we continue to educatethem and have them be invested
in our long-term growth?
And in order to do that, youhave to invest in their
long-term growth and potential.
And that requires, you know,having that emotional
intelligence to spot that and toinitiate those conversations
and to recognize why that isimportant.
Jami (17:42):
Yes, yes and yes and yes, yes, yes.
I wanted to pull out a coupleof things again.
When we talk about positiveintelligence, we're talking
about compassion and empathy, sothe ability to feel
psychologically safe to makemistakes and to grow and to know
that the mistakes are what leadto the growth.
(18:04):
But also, you had talked aboutnavigating, so navigating change
right.
Or when you make a mistake,that's a time to take a step
back, take some inventory andwonder, like, "what did we do
and what might we do differently.
And then to pivot, not to dwellon the mistake and blame
(18:24):
somebody for it and you knowwhatever, or take sole
responsibility for it, like it'syour company, it's your mistake
, it's everybody involved.
And then talking aboutexploring, like what are some
alternatives?
Or exploring what youremployees want and how you can
make them grow, because whenpeople feel heard and seen,
(18:45):
they're going to want to do more, they want to contribute.
And I know the quiet quittingphenomenon was about people
feeling really invisible andfeeling like they were
overworked, underpaid andunderappreciated.
And I know, for me, the bestbosses I've had appreciated me.
They told me what I was doingright as well as what I needed
(19:10):
to improve on, and they use theword "growing edges, which I
like because they're justgrowing edges.
That doesn't mean I'm a failureor whatever.
It just means these are areaswhere we want you to grow and
here's how you're, we want youto do it, or here's how we can
help you.
Or do you have any ideas?
for how you think you need togrow?
(19:31):
" and really putting it on me tothink about it and not just be
told.
Emme (19:37):
That's right.
That's right.
Because, you know, even withadvances in technology and the
onslaught of AI, people have notmorphed into robots, right?
We're not pre-programmed andautomated just to execute a
function.
We have thoughts, feelings,emotions.
You know our life changes everysecond right?
(20:01):
It's not just a daily thing,it's a second thing.
Things happen all the time andthere, a lot of it is largely
beyond our control.
So, you know, we need tounderstand that every person
that you meet, every person inthe workplace, has his or her
own story.
They have his or her ownseconds of ups and downs and
(20:23):
other things that they'rethinking about.
You know.
But to keep people focused onthe work and on creating great
products and services, you haveto band together in that human
community, right?
So it's an interpersonalrelationship, it's the
relationship skills, it's havingempathy for one another,
(20:43):
understanding the other person'sperspective, and that's where
the exchange of diverse ideascomes into play.
And sometimes, you know, insome hierarchies, there are
hierarchies in organizationswhere someone might have a great
idea but that person doesn'traise his or her hand because
it's like "oh, I'm not highenough in the ranking to raise
(21:04):
my hand or if I speak up, myboss is going to be upset
because I didn't pass it by theboss first, you know.
And so there are all sorts ofthings that control and
constrain and limit thatcreativity and that innovation
and the bettering of theproducts and the services.
Because people are concernedabout levels of hierarchy,
(21:28):
they're concerned about socialstatus, you know, and they're
concerned about competition on adifferent level rather than
being more open, Right andengaging.
But in order to do that, youhave to have a very strong sense
of self, know what your worthis and your value and how you
feel.
You know, as a human, yourself-esteem, your confidence and
(21:52):
having a leader who also givesyou feedback that affirms you as
an individual person, not justas a worker, but as a human.
I recognize the person in frontof me as a human who is doing
something fantastic.
You know, it's just, it's justwonderful.
And that helps that person feellike, "yeah, I want to get up
(22:14):
and go to the office today, youknow, because I have great
colleagues, I have things to do,people are counting on me, you
know.
I wonder what we're going to do, oh, yeah.
And then there's the socialaspect, right, and I just don't
mean the water coolerconversation, which some people
like, some people don't like.
But there are other aspectsthat you get from having
conversations with people on youknow, a regular basis and not
(22:37):
being isolated from others.
You learn and you grow.
You find out things about, youknow, babysitting that you
didn't know, that that if youneed a babysitter, that just
comes up in conversations, evencasual conversations, and those
things help you to become closerto your colleagues and to think
about them and to see them aspeople and not just like the
dreaded HR director (23:00):
" oh my God , it's HR.
Well, hr has a role to play andthey have a job to do, but that
person is also a human withwants, needs, desires, families,
friendships and all of thosethings.
Jami (23:15):
Yeah, I love that you talked about that, because we're
all such multidimensionalpeople and if all you see is a
title or an outfit or whatever,then they're just simply
somebody that you've pigeonholedand made assumptions about.
But maybe the HR director'shaving a bad day because her kid
(23:37):
is sick and she would rather behome, but she knew she had to
come in so she had to get ababysitter (like we're talking
about babysitters).
But the other thing istransparent communication is key
.
When management talks to staffand staff talk to each other and
teams talk to each other, thenthere's less opportunity for
(24:01):
misunderstanding.
And the other thing youmentioned in, say, going to a
meeting and being afraid tospeak up, in positive
intelligence there's a strategycalled the "90-10 rule and the
yes and rule.
So if everybody's in a meetingand you all are coming together
to solve a problem or dowhatever, come together to
(24:22):
create something new.
If there are seven or eight or10 people in the meeting, not
everybody is as comfortablespeaking up.
Some people are just quiet orintroverted or they process
information at a different speed.
But if everybody gets a chanceto talk and everybody goes in
with the mindset of you maydisagree with 90% of what they
(24:46):
said, but 10% of it you can useand run with.
And then you can say yes, Ilike what you said about X,
that's really good, and let'sconsider this.
And so if you have a lot of "yesands in the room, all of a
sudden everybody had a voice,nobody was shut down.
A voice.
(25:13):
Nobody was shut down, nobodyfelt excluded or less than, and
so that's a way that managementor leaders can cultivate their
teams too.
I did a DEI certificationcourse and one of the leaders of
the course gave us an example,a case study.
Campbell's Soup has very happyemployees, and one of the
reasons is that the owner or themanager or the president or
(25:35):
whatever would walk around everyday and say hi to the employees
and how are you?
And what's going on.
So everybody knew this person,he knew everybody, he knew their
names, he cared about them aspeople and they felt valued and
wanted to do the work that theywere hired to do.
Emme (25:56):
Yeah, and that definitely makes sense to me, because each
individual is autonomous, and ifleaders remember that, then
they can think about it in thecontext of "this is a whole and
complete individual who I'vehired to perform a function, but
(26:18):
is all you know, and that thisperson is a human as well, like
in front of me, not just notthis person that I've hired,
that I see as a worker, but isyou know which is a label right,
it's another type of labelingthing, but as this person is,
this is the human that I hired,this fully autonomous human that
I hired, that I can say helloto.
(26:41):
You know, I don't have to walkdown the hall because I'm the VP
or the SVP or the CEO and lookat the wall because I can't say
hello to someone in my companythat I have not met or that is
on another team or something.
You know, something like that.
It's more as you look at theperson, because that's that
(27:01):
human connection, that's part ofbeing seen right, is to be
acknowledged, like yourexistence as a human being
acknowledged.
And so, you know, when we talkabout emotional intelligence,
it's also another way of umthinking about in the workplace,
if you remember my maslow'shierarchy of needs.
So there's such a thing, as youknow, maslow's hierarchy of
(27:24):
needs in the workplace.
And so when I do culture workand we talk about leading with
culture, you know there's thesame tiers that go all the way
up.
But when you get to the higherlevels, where the leadership is
involved, it's what do theemployees need to grow and
develop themselves at thatself-actualization, you know.
(27:47):
Third level of hierarchy whatdo they need?
What do those employees need?
And they need the same thingyou've been talking about they
need to be seen and to be heard.
And to do that, that means thatleadership has to develop a
coaching mindset, to coach theiremployees so that they can
advance to the next level, totake on more responsibility, to
(28:08):
lead by role modeling and beingthe example in the workplace of
what it is like to be thatperson who is ethical, engaging,
open, curious, inviting ofdiverse views.
You know, work product improveswhen you get diverse input from
it, because every good leaderknows that he or she doesn't
(28:32):
have all the answers.
If not, you could do everythingyourself, you know, and your
product will be okay, but it'snot going to be the best product
.
I mean even when you thinkabout some of the top performing
companies out there.
They all have teams of peoplewho contribute to their success
(28:53):
and in order to do that, youhave to lead by inspiring, by
role modeling, by giving peoplethe space to take on challenges
and recognizing that if itdoesn't go as well as planned or
predicted, that's a learningopportunity, that's a growth
opportunity, that's a way toreset, re-evaluate, re-commit,
(29:16):
refine, come up with a bettersolution that's great for
everyone.
You have to think about theinputs from customers.
You know the workforce, yourboard of directors, a lot of
different stakeholders to comeup with the best product and
service that actually adds valueand that is a benefit to
(29:36):
everyone.
And that's what great leadersthink about, you know, and they
and they're okay with peoplegiving them that feedback.
Jami (29:47):
Well, we're out of time, but a couple of things I want to
leave people with, and I'mgoing to show this clip.
It's about a minute long andthen you and I can say goodbye,
but listening and knowing thatgiving credit where credit is
due is also important.
I'm thinking of, like Apple.
You know, Steve Jobs didn'tjust invent stuff by himself.
(30:10):
He had engineers and otherpeople figuring things out.
But this clip that I'm going toshow is really evidence of
people recognizing that theproblem is way bigger than
anything that they could solveor do something about
Speaker 3 (TED speaker) (30:29):
And they inspire me because they
show us what is possiblepassable when you change the way
you look at the world, changethe way you look at your place
in the world.
They looked outside and thenthey changed what was on the
inside.
They didn't go to businessschool.
They didn't read a manual howto be a good leader in 10 easy
(30:50):
steps but they have qualitieswe'd all recognize.
They have drive, passion,commitment.
They've gone away from whatthey did before and they've gone
to something they didn't know.
They've tried to connect worldsthey didn't know existed before
.
They've built bridges andthey've walked across them.
(31:14):
They have a sense of the greatarc of time and their tiny place
in it.
They know people have comebefore them and will follow them
, and they know that they'repart of a whole, that they
depend on other people.
It's not about them.
They know that, but it has tostart with them.
And they have humility.
It just happens, but we know itdoesn't just happen, don't we?
(31:39):
We know it takes a lot to makeit happen and we know the
direction the world is going in.
So I think we need successionplanning on a global basis.
That was a little longer, but Ireally like what she had to say.
She's talking about threepeople who were visionaries in
(31:59):
their very small villages, inremote places, that saw a huge
need.
They saw that their way of lifewas threatened from
environmental degradation orover, you know, over processing
or logging or whatever,depending on where they were.
And instead of saying all right, you know, too bad for us, or
(32:21):
I'm going to try to solve this,they went out into the larger
world and asked questions andlistened and came back with new
knowledge and shared it and saidwe need to do something
together.
And they didn't have an egoinvested in it.
And that's one thing I hear yousaying is you put your ego at
(32:41):
the door and then you come towork knowing you're part of a
larger thing.
Emme (32:47):
Yes, I definitely agree, and I think the essence of what
she said echoes with what we'vebeen talking about, and that is
that, you know, strong leaderswith high levels of emotional
intelligence don't come to theoffice and tell their employees
what to do.
They already hired qualified,autonomous individuals.
(33:08):
Their job as a leader is toinspire, role model and coach so
that the employees will followthem anywhere and will step up
and contribute and give more.
Jami (33:23):
Yes, yes, thank you so much for all of your great
insights and, again, Emme'sinformation will be in the show
notes and I'll put in a linkalso to the TED Talk, because
it's about 15 minutes and worthwatching every minute of it and
if you want to find out moreabout emotional intelligence and
how it can help you and yourworkplace, my information is in
(33:44):
the show notes and I would loveto hear from you, and remember,
when you feel an emotion, youdon't have to stay stuck in it,
but you can do some PQ reps andinterrupt it and then maybe
pivot to a new direction, and so, on that note, thank you very
much.
Thank you, Emme, again, andwe'll see you at the PQ gym.
Emme (34:07):
Thank you, Jami, Thank you everyone.
Have a great day Bye.
Hello and welcome to the podcast Emotional Intelligence
your greatest asset and key tosuccess.
I'm your host, Dr Jami Carlacio, coming to you from the Greater
New Haven, Connecticut area.
As a positive intelligence, orPQ, coach, I'm committed to
helping people develop bothemotional intelligence and
(00:26):
mental fitness.
That is, you'll come to regardproblems as situations that help
you learn and grow.
PQ is a way of being and doingin the world that enables you to
develop and sustain a positiverelationship with yourself and
others, at home, at work andeverywhere in between.
Please subscribe to thispodcast and tap the like button
(00:48):
so more people can enjoy thebenefits of PQ.
And now here's the show.
Hello everybody and welcome.
Today we are going to talk aboutleadership, and I am so glad
you're here because leadershipseems to be a very hot topic.
If you are on LinkedIn or ifyou read the internet-- read
(01:10):
stuff on the internet-- you knowthat people are talking about
leadership because people areagreeing that there needs to be
some changes in the way that wethink about leadership and the
way that we lead.
And I have a fabulous guesthere whose specialty is
leadership.
Her name is Emme Devonish, andI'm going to tell you a little
bit about Emme and then we'lllaunch into the episode.
(01:33):
So Emme is an author, s he's anexecutive coach, consultant,
and educator who cares deeplyabout ethical stewardship of the
environment (yay) and serviceto her community.
She is a certified executivecoach, a certified leadership
coach, a certified North Starcoach (sister, how long do these
(01:57):
certifications go?
).
She's a certified culture coach, mindset coach, an emotional
intelligence coach (yes), and acompliance and ethics
professional and a humanresources management certified
professional, an internationalcoaching federation professional
, and she's licensed to practicelaw in the state of New York,
(02:19):
which I think is amazing.
I don't know when you sleep andyou must be about 80 years old
by now, but I know you're not.
She is the principal of CreativeCompliance Communication
Services at LLC, and I'm goingto put my glasses on so I can
(02:40):
see the rest.
She specializes in ethics,compliance, culture and
leadership, with a focus onteaching clients the importance
of emotional intelligence toignite behavioral change and
develop visionary leaders andgoodness knows we need visionary
leaders.
Her coaching and consultingservices incorporate creative
(03:01):
and analytical thinking,compliance with industry
standards, communication ofdiverse ideas and ethical
decision-making to helpindividuals and organizations
branch out to reach theirhighest potential.
And I will put all of Em'sinformation in the show notes.
In case you want to reach outto her, she's on LinkedIn, she
(03:24):
has a website, she has aPinterest site and she has a
really wonderful show calledSolve it For Kids.
And this particular one is whyAre Whales Important?
And I think whales are prettyawesome and they are important.
So welcome Em.
Thanks for being here today.
Emme (03:43):
Jami, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here todayto talk about emotional
intelligence and leadership.
I just want to give a shout outto Jennifer Swanson and Jeff
from the Solve it For Kidspodcast.
It's their podcast and theywere lucky enough to share time,
(04:04):
all three of us togethertalking about whales.
So in Florida we have the NorthAtlantic White whale, so we
talked about that extensively.
So I'm just happy to be hereand I look forward to our
conversation.
And you know, and thanks forreading all that long
certification list, but I willtell you, as anyone who knows me
, I say as a North Star coach,that education is my North Star,
(04:28):
and so you know, first andforemost, I'm an educator, so in
coaching, that helps immensely.
So I'm always looking to learnsomething new as well as to
educate my clients at the sametime.
Jami (04:39):
Excellent, and actually that's important because I'm
also an educator, a careereducator and sadly for my son
who gets tired of it, I'm alwaystrying to give him information
and explain things.
And one of the things I likeabout the education thing is
educators are lifelong learnersand I don't know an educator
(05:03):
who-- I mean I hope I don't knowanyone who-- thinks they know
everything already.
I remember when I first startedteaching I thought I had to
know everything, and when I justrelaxed and realized that my
students had a lot to teach me,I learned way more.
And now that I'm older I knowthat I don't know a lot of stuff
.
So I love having an educationalmindset because it's a growth
(05:24):
mindset, right
Emme (05:27):
It is.
It is a growth mindset, andit's also of intelligence, right
, because you you can developyour emotional intelligence, and
so you know that's an educativeprocess.
So you know, just as you said,teaching is a two- way process;
we're learning and growing whilewe're helping others to learn
and grow, and the same can besaid for coaching
Jami (05:51):
Absolutely.
And one thing I think about interms of growth and I thought I
was original in saying this, butapparently Einstein said it
first and that is if we're notlearning and growing, we're
dying.
I think of a tree, and if youcut a tree, you know, saw a tree
and you see all the rings.
What I think is that all ofthose rings represent growth and
(06:17):
development, but the rings arenot perfectly concentric circles
.
They have little curves in thembecause trees have had to
withstand a lot of stress withchanges in the weather, the
climate, or whatever andespecially if they've been
transplanted and I think of mygrowth process like that too, as
(06:38):
these concentric circles, butthat are uneven, because there
are times in my life where thestresses were greater, but
that's where I learned more,that's where the learning was
stronger.
So the rings are stronger there.
And I'm wondering, since youare a leadership coach, I think
about this a lot.
There've been a lot of changesand there's a lot of talk on
(07:02):
LinkedIn and in industry ingeneral about the kinds of
leaders that are more successfuland the kinds of leaders that
are less successful.
Now we need leaders, whetherthey lead a company or CFO,
whatever but ultimately leadersalso help other people and bring
(07:25):
them up and sort of crowdsourceknowledge.
Right, everybody has theknowledge.
I was watching some TED Talksand thinking about leadership
and I'm going to show a clipfrom a TED Talk later, but this
one guy is a composer, and sohis TED Talk was about how
composers can teach us what goodleadership is, and the one that
(07:49):
he highlighted as the best wasthe one in which the conductor
was certainly leading theorchestra with his thing, but
ultimately it was the musiciansthemselves looking at each other
(08:10):
and listening to each other'sinstruments and coming together
as a group.
They were not individual peopleand the conductor wasn't just
doing his thing and tellingeverybody everything, but the
whole orchestra came together inthis beautiful, harmonious,
synchronous sound.
Emme (08:31):
Yeah, what you just described is how the conductor
is able to inspire, correct,motivate and lift the orchestra
up, right, so the individualmembers of that orchestra.
And that's just the same as inleadership.
You need to have the emotionalintelligence where you can
(08:52):
control your own emotions.
You can, you know, stand in aroom and be able to sense what's
happening with other people onyour team and be sensitive to
that, know when to step in andto give instruction, like the
conductor.
Know when to pull back and youknow, know when quiet moments
are necessary, because theaudience is just listening to
(09:16):
what you're delivering as theconductor.
So it's the same thing in termsof leadership.
The orchestra would not besuccessful without both that
symbiotic relationship between aleader who has qualities like
self-control, self-confidence,self-knowing, self-regulation,
but also so he or she can managetheir own emotions, while at
(09:39):
the same time having qualitieslike empathy, relationship
skills, and straightforwardness,so that he can direct or she
can direct members of theorchestra on what to do, but
also understanding the what'shappening with individual people
within that orchestra.
And then also having parts of,you know, emotional intelligence
(10:02):
that involve responding to howthe audience is responding,
which is the same withleadership.
You have to respond to how yourcustomers are responding, your
clients are responding, yourvendors are responding,
teammates are responding, theboard of directors, you know,
responding on different level,and for that you need, you know,
qualities from emotionalintelligence like adaptability.
(10:25):
Right, you need to have optimismwhen things don't go your way,
so that you can still be thereand keep a positive momentum
forward and to help, to lead, up-lead, and I mean that up- lead
(I just made up that word) butto, like you know, move things
upward, raise it up to a higherlevel when things are low, as
(10:46):
well as to uplift people on theteam.
And you know, and part of thatis also self-actualization.
So, which is what I'm all about, right, branching out to reach
your highest potential, beingthat fully formed, you know,
individual in your professionaland personal development and
growth, so that you arecomfortable and confident in
(11:07):
your skin, in your vision of whoyou are, where you are today,
where you want to go in thefuture, how do you want to grow?
How do you want to use yourskills to help humanity?
How do you want to use yourskills to help your community.
How do you want to use yourskills to help the environment?
Because it just it goes beyondthe self, and in order to do
(11:28):
that, you have to have thatemotional intelligence, and
that's what visionary leaders do.
Jami (11:34):
Yeah, yeah.
There's so much that you saidin that I want to just pull a
couple of things out.
One of them is there is a bookcalled Leading Up and I read
that book cover to cover, andthe reason I read it is I was a
managing editor of an academicjournal and I have a lot of
great editorial skills andwriting skills.
But the subject matter of thisacademic journal was not
(11:58):
familiar to me, and so theeditor-in-chief was overall the
selector of which articles wouldgo in each issue.
But I was the editor who editedall the articles, communicated
with the writers and managed theentire marketing and
distribution process.
But the editor-in-chief wasalso a professor and the leader
(12:20):
of this department at an IvyLeague university where I worked
, and she didn't really knowwhat I did.
And she didn't really need toknow.
She just needed to know I did agood job.
But what I did was I read thisbook because I thought you know
what?
She doesn't understand how muchtime it takes and if I'm late
(12:42):
with something, why, or ifthere's a glitch.
So I read this book Leading Upand I started sending her
progress reports on everyjournal issue so that she knew
what the whole process was andhow many people were involved,
and she was like, "oh, I didn'teven know.
And it made the relationshipbetter and we started working
(13:05):
together more as a team becauseshe wasn't just telling me what
to do and I wasn't just kind ofsome lemming that was just
taking directions, and thatactually made a huge difference
in our relationship.
But going into positiveintelligence, which is connected
to emotional intelligence, isyou talked about, you know, this
(13:28):
sort of a top-down approach ormanaging your emotions?
One of the saboteurs is thestickler, and the stickler is
the perfectionist and thecontroller, highly related to
the stickler, wants to have hisor her finger in every single
piece of the pie.
So people don't feel empoweredand they don't feel motivated
(13:51):
and they don't feel inspired tothink outside the box.
And what I'm hearing you sayingis the good leaders are
visionaries but they help otherpeople when they need help, but
they also give them the space tobe creative and proactive.
Emme (14:07):
Yes, 100%.
I mean if we start with thepremise that every person that
gets hired to do a job, thehiring partner, the HR person,
the CEO who hires thatindividual, is hiring him or her
because they think you have theright skills and qualifications
, you have the technicalknowledge and you have a
(14:27):
reasonable amount ofintelligence, right.
So you have the IQ, let's say,you know, in order to perform
the job, and you might have someexperience.
You can get some on- the- jobtraining and experience, but
once you get to the office--whether you're a Gen Z or
millennial or generation Xer, oryou're a baby boomer who's
(14:47):
still in the workforce--basically, once you get to the
office, that's going to help youmeet the minimum standards,
even for yourself as a teammember, you know.
So what you need, then, is theemotional intelligence as a team
member, so that you can, youknow, navigate, meeting new
people, talking to you knowclients and vendors, going to
(15:10):
your boss, like you did withthat article.
I f you notice a need, how doyou translate that into "hi
supervisor?
I've noticed this issue.
Is it okay for me to talk toyou about it?
Or should I just send themarticles, like you did, and
figuring out the right way ofcommunicating with that person
so that you can influencepositive change which improves
(15:32):
productivity.
You get a higher work product.
You feel some satisfaction thatyou've added value and
contributed.
Your supervisor appreciates youand the good leader you know
who has that strong emotionalintelligence will recognize this
is great because this persontook the initiative.
I can give him or her moreresponsibility.
(15:53):
Or you know we made a greatprofit this year.
Or you know we made a greatprofit this year and it's also
thanks to you know,contributions in terms of
helping to manage the team orresolve a difficult issue or
problem solve, and this issomeone that I can trust further
.
Here's someone that I also wantto develop further.
So I'm also going to payattention and notice things and
(16:15):
you know, ask them and talk tothem about where do you want to
grow in the organization.
Or you know, ask them and talkto them about where do you want
to grow in the organization.
Or you know what stage are youin your career development and
planning.
Is there anything that we cando better in our company?
Or do you see any other gaps inany skills where you can help
fulfill that need.
" You know those are.
Those are conversations that arereally important because a lot
(16:37):
of times people leaveorganizations not, you know
because it's either it's arelationship issue and that is
definitely a leadership issue,you know where there is an open
dialogue and open communication,or they feel frustrated and
stifled, that there's either noroom to grow or they're stuck in
a situation where the jobitself has become boring and
(17:00):
they don't see that there may beother roles within the
organization where they can usetheir skills and to learn and to
grow, you know, but the strongleaders will look at their team
and say, hey, I've got a team ofdiverse people with different
skill sets.
We're all working together wellhere, but how can we continue
to develop the team?
(17:20):
How can we continue to educatethem and have them be invested
in our long-term growth?
And in order to do that, youhave to invest in their
long-term growth and potential.
And that requires, you know,having that emotional
intelligence to spot that and toinitiate those conversations
and to recognize why that isimportant.
Jami (17:42):
Yes, yes and yes and yes, yes, yes.
I wanted to pull out a coupleof things again.
When we talk about positiveintelligence, we're talking
about compassion and empathy, sothe ability to feel
psychologically safe to makemistakes and to grow and to know
that the mistakes are what leadto the growth.
(18:04):
But also, you had talked aboutnavigating, so navigating change
right.
Or when you make a mistake,that's a time to take a step
back, take some inventory andwonder, like, "what did we do
and what might we do differently.
And then to pivot, not to dwellon the mistake and blame
(18:24):
somebody for it and you knowwhatever, or take sole
responsibility for it, like it'syour company, it's your mistake
, it's everybody involved.
And then talking aboutexploring, like what are some
alternatives?
Or exploring what youremployees want and how you can
make them grow, because whenpeople feel heard and seen,
(18:45):
they're going to want to do more, they want to contribute.
And I know the quiet quittingphenomenon was about people
feeling really invisible andfeeling like they were
overworked, underpaid andunderappreciated.
And I know, for me, the bestbosses I've had appreciated me.
They told me what I was doingright as well as what I needed
(19:10):
to improve on, and they use theword "growing edges, which I
like because they're justgrowing edges.
That doesn't mean I'm a failureor whatever.
It just means these are areaswhere we want you to grow and
here's how you're, we want youto do it, or here's how we can
help you.
Or do you have any ideas?
for how you think you need togrow?
(19:31):
" and really putting it on me tothink about it and not just be
told.
Emme (19:37):
That's right.
That's right.
Because, you know, even withadvances in technology and the
onslaught of AI, people have notmorphed into robots, right?
We're not pre-programmed andautomated just to execute a
function.
We have thoughts, feelings,emotions.
You know our life changes everysecond right?
(20:01):
It's not just a daily thing,it's a second thing.
Things happen all the time andthere, a lot of it is largely
beyond our control.
So, you know, we need tounderstand that every person
that you meet, every person inthe workplace, has his or her
own story.
They have his or her ownseconds of ups and downs and
(20:23):
other things that they'rethinking about.
You know.
But to keep people focused onthe work and on creating great
products and services, you haveto band together in that human
community, right?
So it's an interpersonalrelationship, it's the
relationship skills, it's havingempathy for one another,
(20:43):
understanding the other person'sperspective, and that's where
the exchange of diverse ideascomes into play.
And sometimes, you know, insome hierarchies, there are
hierarchies in organizationswhere someone might have a great
idea but that person doesn'traise his or her hand because
it's like "oh, I'm not highenough in the ranking to raise
(21:04):
my hand or if I speak up, myboss is going to be upset
because I didn't pass it by theboss first, you know.
And so there are all sorts ofthings that control and
constrain and limit thatcreativity and that innovation
and the bettering of theproducts and the services.
Because people are concernedabout levels of hierarchy,
(21:28):
they're concerned about socialstatus, you know, and they're
concerned about competition on adifferent level rather than
being more open, Right andengaging.
But in order to do that, youhave to have a very strong sense
of self, know what your worthis and your value and how you
feel.
You know, as a human, yourself-esteem, your confidence and
(21:52):
having a leader who also givesyou feedback that affirms you as
an individual person, not justas a worker, but as a human.
I recognize the person in frontof me as a human who is doing
something fantastic.
You know, it's just, it's justwonderful.
And that helps that person feellike, "yeah, I want to get up
(22:14):
and go to the office today, youknow, because I have great
colleagues, I have things to do,people are counting on me, you
know.
I wonder what we're going to do, oh, yeah.
And then there's the socialaspect, right, and I just don't
mean the water coolerconversation, which some people
like, some people don't like.
But there are other aspectsthat you get from having
conversations with people on youknow, a regular basis and not
(22:37):
being isolated from others.
You learn and you grow.
You find out things about, youknow, babysitting that you
didn't know, that that if youneed a babysitter, that just
comes up in conversations, evencasual conversations, and those
things help you to become closerto your colleagues and to think
about them and to see them aspeople and not just like the
dreaded HR director (23:00):
" oh my God , it's HR.
Well, hr has a role to play andthey have a job to do, but that
person is also a human withwants, needs, desires, families,
friendships and all of thosethings.
Jami (23:15):
Yeah, I love that you talked about that, because we're
all such multidimensionalpeople and if all you see is a
title or an outfit or whatever,then they're just simply
somebody that you've pigeonholedand made assumptions about.
But maybe the HR director'shaving a bad day because her kid
(23:37):
is sick and she would rather behome, but she knew she had to
come in so she had to get ababysitter (like we're talking
about babysitters).
But the other thing istransparent communication is key
.
When management talks to staffand staff talk to each other and
teams talk to each other, thenthere's less opportunity for
(24:01):
misunderstanding.
And the other thing youmentioned in, say, going to a
meeting and being afraid tospeak up, in positive
intelligence there's a strategycalled the "90-10 rule and the
yes and rule.
So if everybody's in a meetingand you all are coming together
to solve a problem or dowhatever, come together to
(24:22):
create something new.
If there are seven or eight or10 people in the meeting, not
everybody is as comfortablespeaking up.
Some people are just quiet orintroverted or they process
information at a different speed.
But if everybody gets a chanceto talk and everybody goes in
with the mindset of you maydisagree with 90% of what they
(24:46):
said, but 10% of it you can useand run with.
And then you can say yes, Ilike what you said about X,
that's really good, and let'sconsider this.
And so if you have a lot of "yesands in the room, all of a
sudden everybody had a voice,nobody was shut down.
A voice.
(25:13):
Nobody was shut down, nobodyfelt excluded or less than, and
so that's a way that managementor leaders can cultivate their
teams too.
I did a DEI certificationcourse and one of the leaders of
the course gave us an example,a case study.
Campbell's Soup has very happyemployees, and one of the
reasons is that the owner or themanager or the president or
(25:35):
whatever would walk around everyday and say hi to the employees
and how are you?
And what's going on.
So everybody knew this person,he knew everybody, he knew their
names, he cared about them aspeople and they felt valued and
wanted to do the work that theywere hired to do.
Emme (25:56):
Yeah, and that definitely makes sense to me, because each
individual is autonomous, and ifleaders remember that, then
they can think about it in thecontext of "this is a whole and
complete individual who I'vehired to perform a function, but
(26:18):
is all you know, and that thisperson is a human as well, like
in front of me, not just notthis person that I've hired,
that I see as a worker, but isyou know which is a label right,
it's another type of labelingthing, but as this person is,
this is the human that I hired,this fully autonomous human that
I hired, that I can say helloto.
(26:41):
You know, I don't have to walkdown the hall because I'm the VP
or the SVP or the CEO and lookat the wall because I can't say
hello to someone in my companythat I have not met or that is
on another team or something.
You know, something like that.
It's more as you look at theperson, because that's that
(27:01):
human connection, that's part ofbeing seen right, is to be
acknowledged, like yourexistence as a human being
acknowledged.
And so, you know, when we talkabout emotional intelligence,
it's also another way of umthinking about in the workplace,
if you remember my maslow'shierarchy of needs.
So there's such a thing, as youknow, maslow's hierarchy of
(27:24):
needs in the workplace.
And so when I do culture workand we talk about leading with
culture, you know there's thesame tiers that go all the way
up.
But when you get to the higherlevels, where the leadership is
involved, it's what do theemployees need to grow and
develop themselves at thatself-actualization, you know.
(27:47):
Third level of hierarchy whatdo they need?
What do those employees need?
And they need the same thingyou've been talking about they
need to be seen and to be heard.
And to do that, that means thatleadership has to develop a
coaching mindset, to coach theiremployees so that they can
advance to the next level, totake on more responsibility, to
(28:08):
lead by role modeling and beingthe example in the workplace of
what it is like to be thatperson who is ethical, engaging,
open, curious, inviting ofdiverse views.
You know, work product improveswhen you get diverse input from
it, because every good leaderknows that he or she doesn't
(28:32):
have all the answers.
If not, you could do everythingyourself, you know, and your
product will be okay, but it'snot going to be the best product
.
I mean even when you thinkabout some of the top performing
companies out there.
They all have teams of peoplewho contribute to their success
(28:53):
and in order to do that, youhave to lead by inspiring, by
role modeling, by giving peoplethe space to take on challenges
and recognizing that if itdoesn't go as well as planned or
predicted, that's a learningopportunity, that's a growth
opportunity, that's a way toreset, re-evaluate, re-commit,
(29:16):
refine, come up with a bettersolution that's great for
everyone.
You have to think about theinputs from customers.
You know the workforce, yourboard of directors, a lot of
different stakeholders to comeup with the best product and
service that actually adds valueand that is a benefit to
(29:36):
everyone.
And that's what great leadersthink about, you know, and they
and they're okay with peoplegiving them that feedback.
Jami (29:47):
Well, we're out of time, but a couple of things I want to
leave people with, and I'mgoing to show this clip.
It's about a minute long andthen you and I can say goodbye,
but listening and knowing thatgiving credit where credit is
due is also important.
I'm thinking of, like Apple.
You know, Steve Jobs didn'tjust invent stuff by himself.
(30:10):
He had engineers and otherpeople figuring things out.
But this clip that I'm going toshow is really evidence of
people recognizing that theproblem is way bigger than
anything that they could solveor do something about
Speaker 3 (TED speaker) (30:29):
And they inspire me because they
show us what is possiblepassable when you change the way
you look at the world, changethe way you look at your place
in the world.
They looked outside and thenthey changed what was on the
inside.
They didn't go to businessschool.
They didn't read a manual howto be a good leader in 10 easy
(30:50):
steps but they have qualitieswe'd all recognize.
They have drive, passion,commitment.
They've gone away from whatthey did before and they've gone
to something they didn't know.
They've tried to connect worldsthey didn't know existed before
.
They've built bridges andthey've walked across them.
(31:14):
They have a sense of the greatarc of time and their tiny place
in it.
They know people have comebefore them and will follow them
, and they know that they'repart of a whole, that they
depend on other people.
It's not about them.
They know that, but it has tostart with them.
And they have humility.
It just happens, but we know itdoesn't just happen, don't we?
(31:39):
We know it takes a lot to makeit happen and we know the
direction the world is going in.
So I think we need successionplanning on a global basis.
That was a little longer, but Ireally like what she had to say.
She's talking about threepeople who were visionaries in
(31:59):
their very small villages, inremote places, that saw a huge
need.
They saw that their way of lifewas threatened from
environmental degradation orover, you know, over processing
or logging or whatever,depending on where they were.
And instead of saying all right, you know, too bad for us, or
(32:21):
I'm going to try to solve this,they went out into the larger
world and asked questions andlistened and came back with new
knowledge and shared it and saidwe need to do something
together.
And they didn't have an egoinvested in it.
And that's one thing I hear yousaying is you put your ego at
(32:41):
the door and then you come towork knowing you're part of a
larger thing.
Emme (32:47):
Yes, I definitely agree, and I think the essence of what
she said echoes with what we'vebeen talking about, and that is
that, you know, strong leaderswith high levels of emotional
intelligence don't come to theoffice and tell their employees
what to do.
They already hired qualified,autonomous individuals.
(33:08):
Their job as a leader is toinspire, role model and coach so
that the employees will followthem anywhere and will step up
and contribute and give more.
Jami (33:23):
Yes, yes, thank you so much for all of your great
insights and, again, Emme'sinformation will be in the show
notes and I'll put in a linkalso to the TED Talk, because
it's about 15 minutes and worthwatching every minute of it and
if you want to find out moreabout emotional intelligence and
how it can help you and yourworkplace, my information is in
(33:44):
the show notes and I would loveto hear from you, and remember,
when you feel an emotion, youdon't have to stay stuck in it,
but you can do some PQ reps andinterrupt it and then maybe
pivot to a new direction, and so, on that note, thank you very
much.
Thank you, Emme, again, andwe'll see you at the PQ gym.
Emme (34:07):
Thank you, Jami, Thank you everyone.
Have a great day Bye.
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