September 16, 2024 • 43 mins
Unlock the secrets to overcoming burnout by cultivating peace and emotional well-being in this riveting episode of "Emotional Intelligence: Your Greatest Asset and Key to Success." We explore how finding joy in your role, whether it’s through event planning or mentoring, can be transformative. Special guest Anne DeButte, a seasoned grief expert, joins me as we explore the impacts of persistent stress and burnout on our overall well-being and how emotional intelligence can be your ally in navigating these challenges.
Are you perpetually stressed and in fight-or-flight mode? Discover the transformative power of mindful breathing in our next segment. We dive deep into how stress and anxiety lead to shallow breathing, keeping you in a constant state of alert. Learn practical mindfulness exercises and simple techniques to calm your nervous system, especially if traditional meditation feels overwhelming. We also discuss the negative impact of constant screen time and the irreplaceable value of genuine human connection.
Struggling with job burnout? Hear Jami's personal journey of leaving an unfulfilling job to prioritize happiness and passion. We discuss the importance of aligning your career with personal values and finding small ways to find satisfaction in your current role. This episode encourages self-discovery and emotional awareness, highlighting the necessity of processing emotions and recognizing the influence of societal expectations. Join us for a conversation filled with practical advice and personal stories designed to help you navigate life's challenges with greater emotional intelligence.
Want to learn how to build your EQ? Let's meet to see if working together is good fit.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But find one thing that makes you feel good about
who you are, and it might bethat you like to organize.
They may all come to you andget you to organize the
Christmas party or somethingelse, or it may be you're a
mentor.
You bring people who are new inthe company under your wing.
(00:20):
Just find that one thing thatmakes you feel good about what
it is you're doing there, whyyou're even there.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to the podcast Emotional Intelligence
your greatest asset and key tosuccess.
I'm your host, dr JamieCarlaccio, coming to you from
the Greater New Haven,connecticut area, as an
emotional intelligence or EQcoach.
I'm committed to helping peopledevelop both emotional
intelligence and mental fitness.
That is, you'll come to regardproblems as situations that help
(01:00):
you learn and grow.
Eq is a way of being and doingin the world that enables you to
develop and sustain a positiverelationship with yourself and
others, at home, at work andeverywhere in between.
Please subscribe to thispodcast and tap the like button
so more people can enjoy thebenefits of EQ.
And now here's the show.
(01:22):
And now here's the show.
Hello and welcome everybody,and thank you for joining us.
I'm very excited.
Today.
I have a wonderful guest namedAnne DeButte, and she is a grief
expert, and she's also quitewell-versed in burnout, and
(01:42):
that's what we're going to talkabout today quite well versed in
burnout, and that's what we'regoing to talk about today, and
so I want to tell you a fewthings about Anne that you may
not know.
If you have not heard of Anne,you will after today.
She is a multi-passionate soul,which is just a lovely way of
saying that she's amulti-passionate soul who falls
down way too many rabbit holes,but these are good rabbit holes.
(02:04):
She learns from them and thenshe serves that learning with
her clients.
She has been a grief and losscoach for more than 10 years and
she is the author of a bookGrief's Abyss Finding your
Pathway to Peace and I justabsolutely love that title.
And all of this informationwill be in the show notes, fear
(02:25):
not.
And for the past six years sheis also a podcast host, and she
has hosted a podcast calledlet's Talk About Grief.
And as a former nurse who sawthe miracles of how the body
heals and so she said, why notthe heart?
Absolutely Her happiest momentsare when her clients are no
(02:46):
longer her clients.
Welcome, anne, thank you forbeing here today.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Jamie, I'm so grateful that you asked me to
jump on your podcast, so thankyou.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, so you and I talked earlier about this, and
since I'd already done anepisode on grief, you and I got
to talking about burnout, andburnout is a thing that's an
understatement, isn't it?
Oh?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
yes.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I hear people talking about burnout all the time, not
only at work, but just burnoutin general, and I was just kind
of doing some research on it andone of the things that comes up
are overwhelm, anxiety andstress and all of those, and
(03:40):
you're a nurse so you can speakto this and all of those and
you're a nurse, so you can speakto this that when we're in this
constant mode of anxiety orstress, we have these cortisol
levels in our system and thatmakes everything worse and it's
sort of like our amygdala kicksinto play and we're in this
(04:00):
fight flight, freeze mode allthe time, and so, of course,
we're burnt out if we're alwaysin that mode.
And I used to live in that modeall the time and I didn't even
know it and people would alwaystell me to chill out or relax,
and it drove me crazy, to behonest, because I didn't know a.
(04:22):
I didn't know what I didn'tknow, but I also didn't realize
that I was in that constant mode.
So I had headaches all the time, I was tired, I was irritable
and I didn't like my life, Iwasn't happy, and so burnout
isn't just about oh, I hate myjob and I don't want to go to
(04:43):
work, although that's a big partof it, but there's a lot more
to burnout than that.
So why don't we just start withthat to kick off our
conversation?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Okay, jamie, yeah, you've nailed some of the
symptoms and certainly peoplewill say, oh, just chill.
What they need to add to theend of that sentence chill and
take a breath.
Because when you think about it, when you're in stress, what's
your breathing doing?
(05:14):
Your shallow breathing?
You're signaling to the bodythat something isn't right and
the body's going.
Do I need to run, do I need tofight or do I just need to stand
there like a deer in theheadlights?
So the shallow breathing issignaling to the brain all of
(05:36):
those things.
The body doesn't feel safe.
So by taking a breath, so bytaking a breath and literally
(05:59):
chilling for just 10 seconds,even can help to bring the body
back into its natural, regulatedstate, because some part of the
brain is going to go.
Oh, we seem to be breathing.
What's going on here?
I thought we were, you know,fleeing, but now we're not Okay
and I don't think peoplerecognize how much the breath is
needed and I'm sure, just bymentioning what, just pay
(06:26):
attention to your breath rightnow.
This is for your listeners,this is for you, jamie.
What is your breath doing?
Are you able to take nice, long, slow, deep breaths?
Are you kind of belly breathingor are you breathing from your
chest?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I think and I'm not sure I'm talking only for myself
I do think a lot of us breathefrom our chest and that's why I
think people find meditationapps so helpful, because they at
least school us, even if it'sjust for 10 minutes or five
minutes or whatever a half hour,however long you feel like you
(07:05):
can set aside, just to say oh,like you said, just breathe.
And I actually do have toremember to breathe, and when I
am upset, if I'm talking withsomebody who has any modicum of
empathy, they'll say justbreathe, just breathe.
And it's like oh, like you say,you know we forget, and just
(07:30):
the breathing is a signal thento our body oh, it's okay, this
is a paper.
I call it a paper tiger.
I think you know, back inNeolithic times there were real
tigers to worry about, but now alot of times we have paper
tigers to worry about.
But now a lot of times we havepaper tigers.
And that isn't to diminishwhat's going on in your life.
It isn't to diminish the realthings that might happen at work
(07:52):
that stress us out, or thethings that happen at home.
An argument, a conflict, a nearaccident on the highway can
send us into that mode.
I know I get cut off in trafficso often that I do drive like
I'm in tense mode, but so thosethings happen.
(08:13):
But oftentimes, if we can putit into perspective, is this
imminent?
Am I in imminent danger?
Is this something I need toreally really be concerned about
, or do I need to step back andput it in context?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, exactly, I can hear your listeners already
groaning.
You mentioned meditation.
There are so many in the worldthat mention meditation.
It's like nails on a chalkboardthey can't sit still long
enough, they cannot still theirminds, and there's a reason for
(08:52):
a lot of people not being ableto do that and it's because
there's trauma and it's thetrauma that's potentially their
bodies don't feel safe enough toto be able to process it and by
sitting and attempting to comeinto their bodies it's going to
(09:14):
put them into that heightenedstate.
So meditation works for some,but not everybody.
This is why um, I know you're astudent of positive intelligence
.
I'm certified in it that I justlove the very simple exercises.
People say I don't have time tostand and breathe, but you
(09:37):
probably have time to just putyour fingers together and just
pay attention to all the ridgeson your thumbs and your
forefingers.
Or just put your hands togetheras almost as if you're praying,
and just rub them up and down.
Just that simple thing is justsort of saying to the body it's
(09:57):
okay, we're all right.
But when you think about howfast paced our society has
become, you just have to go outand look at you down the street.
Everybody is face down on theirphones.
They the brain needs a certainamount of time just to daydream.
(10:22):
So even if they could put theirphones in their pocket just for
a minute and take 10 steps andjust look up, look at the sky
there may be a weed growing inthe sidewalk.
Pay attention to it.
Just that, very just doing thatfor 10 seconds can bring your
(10:46):
body back into its regular state.
But when we're on the go frommorning to night, we take our
phones to bed.
We're lying there watching thescreens.
It really does help to turnthem off.
Mine is off, you know 5.30, 6o'clock.
I shut everything down and I'mpresent.
(11:09):
I'm present with my husband.
We're human beings.
We need that connection, jamie,and being on our screens
doesn't give us that.
Yes, you and I are connecting,but how much you and I are
connecting?
But how much calming, how muchbetter would it be for our
(11:30):
nervous systems to be in personand I could, you know, give you
a hug to sort of calm thenervous system down, or just
touch you on the shoulder andsay yeah, even just that,
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah.
So I want to just go back tomeditation for a moment because,
like you said, people mightgrit their teeth and what I have
found is we often misconstruemeditation as something like you
got to be Khalil Gibran or youhave to be a Zen master, you
(12:03):
have to go to a Buddhistmonastery.
But meditation can also be,again in positive intelligence
terms, being aware, just beingaware of what's going on right
now and that awareness.
So interrupting, interruptingany of the things that can
sabotage our thinking and thatmight mean a conflict, it might
(12:25):
mean something, you know, yourmonkey mind going crazy.
But when we start developing Italk a lot about the PQ gym here
in the muscle when we interruptthat process, like you said, as
simple as rubbing yourfingertips together or breathing
, or I sometimes I even juststare at the lines in my hand.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Or.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I just, you know, I've gotten a little bit of
practice doing this over thepast couple of years.
Oh, wait a second.
I'm running around like a madchicken right now, yeah, but
what I found is that I don'thave to meditate for a long
period of time.
I can stop in the middle of myday and think of things I'm
(13:08):
grateful for, I can just breathe.
When my child was young he's 17, now in high school, so it
doesn't really apply now becausehe just hides out in his
bedroom and I hardly ever seehim out, because he just hides
out in his bedroom and I hardlyever see him.
But he used to be glued to meand I didn't have a moment's
(13:29):
rest because it was like I waseither making sure he didn't
kill himself by gettingsomething out of the cupboard
that he wasn't supposed to get,or he needed to get dressed, or
I needed to go.
I would go to my bathroom and Iwould sit on the floor and I
would play a gratitudemeditation for five minutes and
(13:49):
that's all I needed.
That calmed me down and thatcentered me.
And, yeah, maybe I needed to doit again at six o'clock at
night, but the point is I justsnatched what I could, and it
didn't have to be a certainlength of time.
What did have to happen, though, was that I needed to be alone
(14:12):
and I needed to claim that space, and for me it was the bathroom
floor, because that was theonly place I could close a door
and not be interrupted for fiveminutes.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Exactly During COVID, I was invited to go to a number
of nursing homes and retirementhomes here in the city because,
as we know, the healthcareprofession had gone through a
lot.
There was a lot of stress, alot of overwhelm and a lot of
(14:44):
burnout and there was a lot ofgrief behind that.
And I was teaching them how torecognize the grief but also
giving them tips on how theycould sort of handle their
stress in the moment.
And they would often say to meI don't have time for that, you
don't understand that.
(15:04):
So when I began positiveintelligence, I just wished I'd
had more of it.
When I was being involved withthese wonderful beings that took
care of us during that timewould have been to sort of share
with them.
You do have more time.
I'll finish my thought, thenI'll go back.
(15:26):
You do have more time than youthink.
When you're with a patient, youcan just look at their.
A patient, you can just look attheir hair.
You can just look at their,their body.
I mean, as nurses, we do aphysical assessment with our
eyes every time we go into apatient's room.
It's just something that we'retaught to do.
You're, you're looking to seehow the patient is.
(15:50):
So you just focus on somethingit could be their gown or their
hair and just take a couple ofbreaths on that, and that can
bring you into your own body,rather than thinking, oh, I've
got to get through this patientbecause so-and-so's waiting,
I've got bed baths, I've gotcharting and all the things that
(16:12):
nurses have to do.
So that was.
I'm sharing that now with mypositive intelligence tips.
But back then I would say tothem well, do you get to go to
the bathroom?
And they would say yes, and Iwould say, well, for that minute
, just pay attention to yourbreath or just stare at the
(16:36):
color.
You know, look at the color infront of you, just sort of roam
your eyes around a little bit,and that'll bring you back into
yourself.
So when you mentioned uh, youneeded to escape to the bathroom
.
I'm sure a lot of yourlisteners can appreciate that,
and I'm sure a lot with smallchildren, although I'm not sure
(16:59):
a closed door works too wellwith small children.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well, yeah, In this case my husband was around.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
It wasn't like, oh, Javier's got five minutes to
roam the house.
God forbid, it would haveburned down a long time ago.
But normally they're knockingon the door.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Oh yeah, mommy mommy, exactly so, and even when he
was really little, I would puthim in one of those little I
think it was like called ajungle, something you just stick
them in in and their legs hangout, and he had something to
occupy himself so I could atleast shower.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, you, you would be okay.
He would be safe for a littlewhile.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, and you know I'm going to go back to this
thing about about the bathroom.
Yeah, washing your hands, rightShirzad Shamim talks about that
.
Brushing your teeth rightShirzad Shamin talks about that
brushing your teeth, washingyour hands.
Just be in that moment doingthat thing.
(18:03):
Jon Kabat-Zinn is famous forreally teaching people how to
stay in the moment and mindfullywash the dishes, mindfully
sweep the floor, whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's it.
The minute our eyes are open,we jump out of bed, we're
heading to the shower, we're inour vehicles, we're heading to
work, or we stop and grab acoffee and some breakfast, and
then we're at work and the dayjust takes over and you arrive
home and you're exhausted.
(18:30):
But if you could just take amoment when your eyes open and
just take a deep breath, even beaware of your head on the
pillow yeah even when you getout of bed.
instead of jumping out of bed,get out and feel your feet just
(18:52):
on the floor.
Is the floor carpeted?
What does that feel like?
Is it cold?
And just take those few momentsand it can set your day up far
better than if you wake up.
Your mind is racing and you'rethinking about your to-do list.
Yeah, before you've even gottenout of bed, right?
(19:16):
That's a recipe for stress,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah and burnout.
Because, again, if you don'tfeel, I guess I'll speak for
myself, but I'm pretty sure I'mspeaking for other people as
well.
If you don't feel like you'rehaving a good time and I don't
mean your job's having a goodtime and I don't mean you know
you're not, your job's not acarnival or something but if
you're getting out of bed andyou're dreading your day, or
(19:40):
you're dreading going to work,or you're dreading seeing so and
so or not seeing so and so,then something has to give.
And no, I'm not saying go quityour job and be a vagabond.
I know God doesn't pay the rent.
Maybe God does, but I haven'tgotten any rent checks from God
lately.
But certainly we have to livein this world.
(20:03):
But I think that we might beable to consider what kind of
choices we're exercising or notexercising.
I have left jobs that I wassimply miserable at, and at one
(20:24):
point I left a job withouthaving a job to go to, but I was
so unhappy that I couldn't evensmile at work at all ever.
I would just sit there,catatonic.
And finally my boss said Jamie,if you don't smile, you're
going to have to quit.
And I said I quit.
I mean, it didn't even, itwasn't even a.
(20:46):
I didn't even think about it, Ijust said well then I quit and
at first I was frightened out ofmy skin.
This was back in my twenties,before I gave into the career
that I ended up doing, which wasteaching writing at a college.
But before that I was in anindustry that I didn't really
(21:09):
fit in and I wasn't a corporateperson, but I was in a
corporation and I just couldn'tstand it.
I had headaches every day, andso I was burnt out from about
the first month on, and I stayedin that job for 18 months, but
probably because I didn't knowhow to handle.
(21:30):
I didn't know how to handle, Ididn't have tools like I have
now, but the burnout was sopervasive in my life it affected
my marriage, it affected myhealth.
It affected my relationshipswith my coworkers.
It affected my kind of, myquote unquote standing in the
company.
If they like, they're like.
(21:51):
If you don't smile, you have toquit.
Like that's bad, yes, you know,when they don't even want to see
my sad face at work.
But I just made a choice.
I ended up, you know, landingon my feet, thank goodness, and
I'm not saying it's easy to dothat.
But it is oftentimes a matterof really assessing what am I
(22:15):
doing?
Am I doing something that makesme happy?
Am I doing what?
Am I doing what my passion is?
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And you talked about, you know, going down these
rabbit holes and findingdifferent ways to pursue your
passions.
Rabbit holes and findingdifferent ways to pursue your
passions.
And maybe in doing that too,you avoid burnout because you're
feeding your soul, your heartand your soul and you're not
constantly worried or frustratedor angry or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, it's so easy to get caught up in the fear If I
don't have this job, then what?
But we don't often take thatthought to the end degree.
But if you were to sit down anddo a paper, exercise, if I
didn't have this job, okay, Imight lose the house.
(23:08):
I might be on the streets, Imight, I might.
House, I might be on thestreets, I might, I might.
But then ask yourself but whatif doing that?
something better, showed up andthinking about all the things
that would light you up, and Ithink there's the fear, but it's
(23:31):
also knowing that you can'tpossibly leave this job.
You're a single woman, you'reon your own and you've got to
pay the rent.
There's nobody supporting you.
It's to find one thing in yourjob that you enjoy.
There was a reason why you tookthat position, unless it was
just a job to pay the rent.
(23:52):
But find one thing that makesyou feel good about who you are,
and it might be that you liketo organize.
They may all come to you andget you to organize the
Christmas party or somethingelse, or it may be you're a
mentor.
You bring people who are new inthe company under your wing.
(24:13):
Just find that one thing thatmakes you feel good about what
it is you're doing there, whyyou're even there and I know
during I keep going back to theCOVID, but I think we've got
that to look back on.
We changed oh yeah, we're nevergoing to go back there.
(24:33):
However, our values changed andit's now finding a company that
aligns with your values.
If you're one of these peoplewho believe in the environment,
then working for a gasolinecompany possibly isn't going to
align with your values.
(24:54):
So it's finding companies thatshare what's near and dear to
your heart.
But if that can take many, manyyears, but in the meantime, for
anybody who is unhappy withtheir work, just find that one
thing, because that will helpyou be able to go into that
(25:18):
situation daily without alwaysfeeling that it's stressful,
because living that way is not agood way.
It's going to end up withhealth issues.
Well, it shortens your life.
Yeah, burnout is not somethingfun to do and we're all guilty
(25:38):
of it.
I'll just do this, and thenI'll just take on this client,
and then I'll just do.
I'll just do.
And then, at the end of thejust do's, you realize you can't
even enjoy yourself on holidaybecause you've got nothing in
the tank.
And it's taking those littlesteps, as Jamie has been
(26:00):
alluding to, that we can helpourselves, and it could be just
being grateful for what you havein your life and not be always
comparing yourself on socialmedia.
Determine for yourself whatyour success means to you.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, so I want to stop you right there for a
moment, because I mentioned thisbefore.
We talk about aligning ourvalues with what we do for work
or who we hang out with orwhatever it is what we do for
fun, but I think before we evenget there, we have to stop and
take stock and do an inventoryof our values.
(26:47):
Some people might not even knowwhat they believe or know what
they love or know what they feelabout X, y or Z, and so it's
not even just is this aligned?
It's like what are my values?
Oh, I value environmentalintegrity and environmental
preservation, or I value, Ivalue giving people a sense of
(27:13):
purpose, and maybe you want tobe in a holistic health
profession or another caregivingprofession or whatever it is.
It doesn't matter what yourvalues are, but first of all,
figure out what the values areand maybe it's time to look in
the mirror.
Am I, you know?
(27:34):
What do I think I stand for?
And then take stock of yourlife.
Am I doing those things thatfeed the things I think I stand
for?
And for me, I had to switchcareers and I did.
I went from teaching college atuniversities, writing at
(27:56):
universities, to becoming adivinity school student, to
becoming a hospital chaplain, tothen becoming a coach, and now
I am a professional recoverycoach and enrolled in a drug and
alcohol counseling program andalcohol counseling program.
(28:18):
But it wasn't like I did it inone day.
It took years of trial anderror and saying, okay, I'm not
happy, what's wrong here?
But allowing myself time tomeditate and journal and make
mistakes and course correct,because that's going to happen
too.
So there's a little fear inthat, like, oh, I actually have
to look at what I'm doing, or Ihave to look at my values, and
(28:41):
we all have shadow sides, and sowe're not going to be perfect
and there will be times when wedo not act in alignment with the
values that we say we have.
And you know, god bless us all.
We just don't.
We're humans and we makemistakes and we do things that
we wish we hadn't done.
(29:01):
But embrace it and learn from it.
Like you were saying, you learnfrom all those different rabbit
holes that you've been down.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Absolutely.
And going back to what you weresaying, if you have no idea
what your purpose is, tryingdifferent things will help you,
because then you'll understandwhat you don't like and that'll
help you discover what it is youdo like.
And this is one of theexercises I do with my grief
(29:36):
clients, because I look at griefas being one of those mega
challenges in life that will getyou to sit up and pay attention
to your beliefs.
What do you believe?
Is it society's belief thatyou've got to get good grades,
get a job, get the white picketfence, get the house, get the
(29:58):
C-suite, or are those yourvalues?
Is that something you feel oris it something that parents or
society has fed you?
And this is an opportunity todetermine what are your beliefs.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Right, exactly, exactly, and I think that's a
big big thing is just, and thatis going to involve taking stock
and you can't keep moving.
You can't move 80 miles an hourand take stock of what's going
on because you're so busy movingfrom the next thing to the next
thing, to the next thing, andpretty soon it's 10 o'clock at
(30:38):
night.
Where did the day go?
You know, I used to be in amode where I would forget to eat
, I would forget to drink water,I would go eight hours without
nourishing my body and then Iwondered why I had a headache or
why I didn't feel good.
I would go eight hours withoutnourishing my body and then I
wondered why I had a headache orwhy I didn't feel good or why I
was tired or angry, or grouchy,or hangry, as people say.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, exactly when you don't eat.
Yeah, and unfortunately, fallingdown all those rabbit holes was
one of my top saboteurs therestless, because one quality
that I got to understand fromthe restless is when we get too
(31:25):
close to our emotions, it'ssquirrel squirrel Instead of, as
you said, sitting back.
Instead of, as you said,sitting back picking up a
journal or even typing yourfeelings out.
I mean, a lot of people areturning to blogs and very
(31:46):
successfully just putting whatit is that's going on for them
and if you avoid those feelings,they're going to help with the
overwhelm and everything else,because you need to be able to
feel those emotions when theycome up and allow the anger to
dissipate in a way that'shealthy, not put your finger up
on the highway because you'vebeen pulled, you know somebody's
(32:08):
pulled in front of you.
It's being able to bringyourself back into your body
with calmness, rather than thoseemotions, and unless we take
care of them, they're they'regoing to do that.
They're going to come out inthe most unopportune moment, and
I found, whenever I got tooclose to an emotion I wasn't
(32:29):
ready to deal with, I'd takeanother course.
I'd take another course.
I mean'd take another course.
I mean it's brilliant.
Look at all my learning and Ican share it with my clients so
they don't have to spend 10years of their life doing it.
But it's interesting thatunderstanding my restless better
(32:50):
has helped me get more in tunewith my own emotions.
And you think, being a griefcoach, that would be my first
thing, but being British, youknow we don't do emotions.
I truly had to learn about myemotions.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Right, and they're not something to be afraid of.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
No, because they're normal.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Anyone who hasn't seen Inside Out should go see
both one and two, because noneof those emotions could really
stand on its own.
They all needed each other andthey all had a purpose and a
role.
And every emotion isinformation.
Right, if I'm angry, that'sinformation.
What am I reacting to?
(33:34):
And oftentimes I think of angeras a feeling of powerlessness.
Like I, I am powerless overwhat you're doing or or what
just happened out there.
And then the next question iscan I do something about it?
Do I need to do something aboutit?
Should I even care about this?
(33:54):
And you know, scherzal talksabout the hand on the hot stove.
Yep, there it is.
Take your hand off and assessthe situation.
Don't keep it there until youhave nothing left but bone right
.
Yes, exactly, you can't cinchoff your skin and your muscles
and then say, dang, that was bad.
It's like yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
But I really appreciate anger because, yes,
like every emotion has apositive and a negative side.
They are signposts for us.
When I have a client who's sointo the grips of grief and
she's or he is sort of flataffect, voice is very, you know,
(34:40):
toneless.
Everything about them, it'shard yeah if I can get them to
come up with a thought or astatement that gets them into a
little bit of anger.
Anger has energy.
Anger can help you move along.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
And it's certainly a very important part of the grief
journey.
Yeah Right, it's a huge part ofit.
I mean, I think there'sprobably not one person
untouched by grief on thisplanet.
We've all had a loss of somesort that we're grieving.
It could be a loss of a life,or a lifestyle, or a person, a
(35:22):
pet.
It can be anything, right?
Yeah, and you're right thatflat affect is a dead giveaway,
like something, something's gotto give here, something's being
repressed but unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
What do we do, jamie?
When you know there's, or youdon't know that there's been a
death and the person sees you,they're going to paste this
smile on their face andeverything's going to be okay,
and in fact no mm-hmm stop ityeah just just allow yourself
(35:57):
and your emotions to come out.
If the person you're talking tocan't handle it, that's there
on them, not on you yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
So just a word to the wise, or a bit of encouragement
for those of you out there whenyou see somebody suffering, or
when you see somebody who'smaybe emoting in a way that is
inconsistent with what's goingon, ask them how they're doing
(36:28):
and listen.
Don't try to tell them how theyshould feel.
Don't try to fix them.
Say how are things going really?
And just wait and listen andthen, when they say I'm fine,
say really, really, are you fine?
You know, do you want to talkabout it?
I'm here to listen.
I can't tell you how many timesI haven't been fine and I just
(36:53):
wanted somebody to listen.
I didn't want to be fixed, Ididn't want to be told how to
feel, I didn't want to havesomebody compare my suffering
with the grand suffering of allof the starving children in some
developing country, becausethat's not helpful to me.
What's helpful is.
These are my feelings, this ismy experience.
(37:15):
Whether it's burnout or stress,or overwhelm, or anger or grief
, it doesn't matter.
But owning it is one thing andthen allowing other people to
own it and just witnessing it isanother.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
And that can be a beautiful ending.
If you like Jamie to burnout isdon't carry on alone.
You need somebody.
You need the support of othersto help you.
It's not going to go away.
There needs to be a change inyour daily routine for you to be
(37:51):
able to.
But, just as Jamie, you weresaying, sit and if you've got a
good friend this is what's goingon for me and just saying to
them I don't need fixing, Idon't need any words, I just
need to be heard, because howmany times are we listening to
people and we're not trulylistening?
(38:14):
We're listening to answer.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yes, oh yes, absolutely.
But if you're thinking in termsof, what am I going to say?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
next, yeah, yeah, we don't need to do that.
Just this is an opportunity foryou to put your hand on your
heart and breathe and justcreate that space for that
person to say and empty outwhat's on their mind.
Our brains is not going to beable to fix it as hard as we
(38:45):
think it's going to happen.
You need the heart to getinvolved, because it's a mind
body and I believe you broughtin the soul Because it's a mind
body and I believe you broughtin the soul.
We need all those parts and weneed the breath.
The breath is like the masterorchestrator of it all.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Right.
So burnout is the signal thatsomething needs to change.
Yes, you know, taking care ofour body, assessing what's going
on in our minds.
Yeah, taking care of our body,assessing what's going on in our
minds and maybe finding whatfeeds your spirit, whether,
again, it's finding somebody orsomething at work you like.
(39:23):
For me, I started taking dancelessons.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
That's beautiful because it's moving that energy
through you, and I always usethis analogy moving that energy
through you.
And I always use this analogy.
If you've ever watched thegeographic or any nature program
, you'll see the lion or thetiger chasing the gazelle and
the gazelle runs off.
And when it gets to what itfeels is safety, it'll look
(39:48):
around and it'll shake.
How often do we get our bodiesto safety?
Shake?
How often do we get our bodiesto safety and we shake off all
those neurochemicals andadrenalins and the cortisol that
are floating around in acocktail in our bodies.
And dancing is a beautiful way,beautiful, beautiful way of
(40:11):
releasing it.
And if you said, burnout is anopportunity to slow down and
stop, it's a signal Becausewhat's going to come next is
like that, two by four, and it'seither going to come out in
some autoimmune disease,diabetes, um, or severe
(40:35):
depression, because you'veyou've locked down all your
emotions.
Emotions are energy, they needto be released.
And depression, according tocarla mclaren, which is a
brilliant book that I discoveredthat taught me how to be with
my emotions it's called thelanguage of emotions, if you're
interested.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Okay, well, I'll add it to the show notes.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah, please do.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Beautiful body of work that shows us the
importance of not taking care,or what our emotions are there
to teach us.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Right, and that is a great place to end our
conversation.
We could go on forever, I thinkso.
So I encourage anybody here tolike and subscribe this podcast,
because the more that you likeand subscribe it, the more
people will see it and perhapsbe helped by it.
So we appreciate you coming andperhaps be helped by it.
(42:07):
So we appreciate you coming.
And before we go, just a quicklittle fun thing Okay, okay,
okay.
We all want to be sedated, butwe don't necessarily need a drug
or an alcohol or a bunch ofcrazy people walking around
right, we can be sedated by justbeing present.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Very much so, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Well, thank you, Anne , for joining us today, and
again, for all of you out therelistening or watching, there's a
reason this podcast is calledEmotional Intelligence.
It's because we can take backownership of our lives, of our
emotions, of everything.
And, again, that is included inwhat we've talked about
(42:52):
positive intelligence gettinginto your body, getting present,
recognizing the saboteurs thatwant to derail us.
All of that.
So until next time, Anne, and Iwill see you at the PQ Gym.
Goodbye.
But find one thing that makes you feel good about
who you are, and it might bethat you like to organize.
They may all come to you andget you to organize the
Christmas party or somethingelse, or it may be you're a
mentor.
You bring people who are new inthe company under your wing.
(00:20):
Just find that one thing thatmakes you feel good about what
it is you're doing there, whyyou're even there.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to the podcast Emotional Intelligence
your greatest asset and key tosuccess.
I'm your host, dr JamieCarlaccio, coming to you from
the Greater New Haven,connecticut area, as an
emotional intelligence or EQcoach.
I'm committed to helping peopledevelop both emotional
intelligence and mental fitness.
That is, you'll come to regardproblems as situations that help
(01:00):
you learn and grow.
Eq is a way of being and doingin the world that enables you to
develop and sustain a positiverelationship with yourself and
others, at home, at work andeverywhere in between.
Please subscribe to thispodcast and tap the like button
so more people can enjoy thebenefits of EQ.
And now here's the show.
(01:22):
And now here's the show.
Hello and welcome everybody,and thank you for joining us.
I'm very excited.
Today.
I have a wonderful guest namedAnne DeButte, and she is a grief
expert, and she's also quitewell-versed in burnout, and
(01:42):
that's what we're going to talkabout today quite well versed in
burnout, and that's what we'regoing to talk about today, and
so I want to tell you a fewthings about Anne that you may
not know.
If you have not heard of Anne,you will after today.
She is a multi-passionate soul,which is just a lovely way of
saying that she's amulti-passionate soul who falls
down way too many rabbit holes,but these are good rabbit holes.
(02:04):
She learns from them and thenshe serves that learning with
her clients.
She has been a grief and losscoach for more than 10 years and
she is the author of a bookGrief's Abyss Finding your
Pathway to Peace and I justabsolutely love that title.
And all of this informationwill be in the show notes, fear
(02:25):
not.
And for the past six years sheis also a podcast host, and she
has hosted a podcast calledlet's Talk About Grief.
And as a former nurse who sawthe miracles of how the body
heals and so she said, why notthe heart?
Absolutely Her happiest momentsare when her clients are no
(02:46):
longer her clients.
Welcome, anne, thank you forbeing here today.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Jamie, I'm so grateful that you asked me to
jump on your podcast, so thankyou.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, so you and I talked earlier about this, and
since I'd already done anepisode on grief, you and I got
to talking about burnout, andburnout is a thing that's an
understatement, isn't it?
Oh?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
yes.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I hear people talking about burnout all the time, not
only at work, but just burnoutin general, and I was just kind
of doing some research on it andone of the things that comes up
are overwhelm, anxiety andstress and all of those, and
(03:40):
you're a nurse so you can speakto this and all of those and
you're a nurse, so you can speakto this that when we're in this
constant mode of anxiety orstress, we have these cortisol
levels in our system and thatmakes everything worse and it's
sort of like our amygdala kicksinto play and we're in this
(04:00):
fight flight, freeze mode allthe time, and so, of course,
we're burnt out if we're alwaysin that mode.
And I used to live in that modeall the time and I didn't even
know it and people would alwaystell me to chill out or relax,
and it drove me crazy, to behonest, because I didn't know a.
(04:22):
I didn't know what I didn'tknow, but I also didn't realize
that I was in that constant mode.
So I had headaches all the time, I was tired, I was irritable
and I didn't like my life, Iwasn't happy, and so burnout
isn't just about oh, I hate myjob and I don't want to go to
(04:43):
work, although that's a big partof it, but there's a lot more
to burnout than that.
So why don't we just start withthat to kick off our
conversation?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Okay, jamie, yeah, you've nailed some of the
symptoms and certainly peoplewill say, oh, just chill.
What they need to add to theend of that sentence chill and
take a breath.
Because when you think about it, when you're in stress, what's
your breathing doing?
(05:14):
Your shallow breathing?
You're signaling to the bodythat something isn't right and
the body's going.
Do I need to run, do I need tofight or do I just need to stand
there like a deer in theheadlights?
So the shallow breathing issignaling to the brain all of
(05:36):
those things.
The body doesn't feel safe.
So by taking a breath, so bytaking a breath and literally
(05:59):
chilling for just 10 seconds,even can help to bring the body
back into its natural, regulatedstate, because some part of the
brain is going to go.
Oh, we seem to be breathing.
What's going on here?
I thought we were, you know,fleeing, but now we're not Okay
and I don't think peoplerecognize how much the breath is
needed and I'm sure, just bymentioning what, just pay
(06:26):
attention to your breath rightnow.
This is for your listeners,this is for you, jamie.
What is your breath doing?
Are you able to take nice, long, slow, deep breaths?
Are you kind of belly breathingor are you breathing from your
chest?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I think and I'm not sure I'm talking only for myself
I do think a lot of us breathefrom our chest and that's why I
think people find meditationapps so helpful, because they at
least school us, even if it'sjust for 10 minutes or five
minutes or whatever a half hour,however long you feel like you
(07:05):
can set aside, just to say oh,like you said, just breathe.
And I actually do have toremember to breathe, and when I
am upset, if I'm talking withsomebody who has any modicum of
empathy, they'll say justbreathe, just breathe.
And it's like oh, like you say,you know we forget, and just
(07:30):
the breathing is a signal thento our body oh, it's okay, this
is a paper.
I call it a paper tiger.
I think you know, back inNeolithic times there were real
tigers to worry about, but now alot of times we have paper
tigers to worry about.
But now a lot of times we havepaper tigers.
And that isn't to diminishwhat's going on in your life.
It isn't to diminish the realthings that might happen at work
(07:52):
that stress us out, or thethings that happen at home.
An argument, a conflict, a nearaccident on the highway can
send us into that mode.
I know I get cut off in trafficso often that I do drive like
I'm in tense mode, but so thosethings happen.
(08:13):
But oftentimes, if we can putit into perspective, is this
imminent?
Am I in imminent danger?
Is this something I need toreally really be concerned about
, or do I need to step back andput it in context?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, exactly, I can hear your listeners already
groaning.
You mentioned meditation.
There are so many in the worldthat mention meditation.
It's like nails on a chalkboardthey can't sit still long
enough, they cannot still theirminds, and there's a reason for
(08:52):
a lot of people not being ableto do that and it's because
there's trauma and it's thetrauma that's potentially their
bodies don't feel safe enough toto be able to process it and by
sitting and attempting to comeinto their bodies it's going to
(09:14):
put them into that heightenedstate.
So meditation works for some,but not everybody.
This is why um, I know you're astudent of positive intelligence
.
I'm certified in it that I justlove the very simple exercises.
People say I don't have time tostand and breathe, but you
(09:37):
probably have time to just putyour fingers together and just
pay attention to all the ridgeson your thumbs and your
forefingers.
Or just put your hands togetheras almost as if you're praying,
and just rub them up and down.
Just that simple thing is justsort of saying to the body it's
(09:57):
okay, we're all right.
But when you think about howfast paced our society has
become, you just have to go outand look at you down the street.
Everybody is face down on theirphones.
They the brain needs a certainamount of time just to daydream.
(10:22):
So even if they could put theirphones in their pocket just for
a minute and take 10 steps andjust look up, look at the sky
there may be a weed growing inthe sidewalk.
Pay attention to it.
Just that, very just doing thatfor 10 seconds can bring your
(10:46):
body back into its regular state.
But when we're on the go frommorning to night, we take our
phones to bed.
We're lying there watching thescreens.
It really does help to turnthem off.
Mine is off, you know 5.30, 6o'clock.
I shut everything down and I'mpresent.
(11:09):
I'm present with my husband.
We're human beings.
We need that connection, jamie,and being on our screens
doesn't give us that.
Yes, you and I are connecting,but how much you and I are
connecting?
But how much calming, how muchbetter would it be for our
(11:30):
nervous systems to be in personand I could, you know, give you
a hug to sort of calm thenervous system down, or just
touch you on the shoulder andsay yeah, even just that,
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah.
So I want to just go back tomeditation for a moment because,
like you said, people mightgrit their teeth and what I have
found is we often misconstruemeditation as something like you
got to be Khalil Gibran or youhave to be a Zen master, you
(12:03):
have to go to a Buddhistmonastery.
But meditation can also be,again in positive intelligence
terms, being aware, just beingaware of what's going on right
now and that awareness.
So interrupting, interruptingany of the things that can
sabotage our thinking and thatmight mean a conflict, it might
(12:25):
mean something, you know, yourmonkey mind going crazy.
But when we start developing Italk a lot about the PQ gym here
in the muscle when we interruptthat process, like you said, as
simple as rubbing yourfingertips together or breathing
, or I sometimes I even juststare at the lines in my hand.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Or.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I just, you know, I've gotten a little bit of
practice doing this over thepast couple of years.
Oh, wait a second.
I'm running around like a madchicken right now, yeah, but
what I found is that I don'thave to meditate for a long
period of time.
I can stop in the middle of myday and think of things I'm
(13:08):
grateful for, I can just breathe.
When my child was young he's 17, now in high school, so it
doesn't really apply now becausehe just hides out in his
bedroom and I hardly ever seehim out, because he just hides
out in his bedroom and I hardlyever see him.
But he used to be glued to meand I didn't have a moment's
(13:29):
rest because it was like I waseither making sure he didn't
kill himself by gettingsomething out of the cupboard
that he wasn't supposed to get,or he needed to get dressed, or
I needed to go.
I would go to my bathroom and Iwould sit on the floor and I
would play a gratitudemeditation for five minutes and
(13:49):
that's all I needed.
That calmed me down and thatcentered me.
And, yeah, maybe I needed to doit again at six o'clock at
night, but the point is I justsnatched what I could, and it
didn't have to be a certainlength of time.
What did have to happen, though, was that I needed to be alone
(14:12):
and I needed to claim that space, and for me it was the bathroom
floor, because that was theonly place I could close a door
and not be interrupted for fiveminutes.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Exactly During COVID, I was invited to go to a number
of nursing homes and retirementhomes here in the city because,
as we know, the healthcareprofession had gone through a
lot.
There was a lot of stress, alot of overwhelm and a lot of
(14:44):
burnout and there was a lot ofgrief behind that.
And I was teaching them how torecognize the grief but also
giving them tips on how theycould sort of handle their
stress in the moment.
And they would often say to meI don't have time for that, you
don't understand that.
(15:04):
So when I began positiveintelligence, I just wished I'd
had more of it.
When I was being involved withthese wonderful beings that took
care of us during that timewould have been to sort of share
with them.
You do have more time.
I'll finish my thought, thenI'll go back.
(15:26):
You do have more time than youthink.
When you're with a patient, youcan just look at their.
A patient, you can just look attheir hair.
You can just look at their,their body.
I mean, as nurses, we do aphysical assessment with our
eyes every time we go into apatient's room.
It's just something that we'retaught to do.
You're, you're looking to seehow the patient is.
(15:50):
So you just focus on somethingit could be their gown or their
hair and just take a couple ofbreaths on that, and that can
bring you into your own body,rather than thinking, oh, I've
got to get through this patientbecause so-and-so's waiting,
I've got bed baths, I've gotcharting and all the things that
(16:12):
nurses have to do.
So that was.
I'm sharing that now with mypositive intelligence tips.
But back then I would say tothem well, do you get to go to
the bathroom?
And they would say yes, and Iwould say, well, for that minute
, just pay attention to yourbreath or just stare at the
(16:36):
color.
You know, look at the color infront of you, just sort of roam
your eyes around a little bit,and that'll bring you back into
yourself.
So when you mentioned uh, youneeded to escape to the bathroom
.
I'm sure a lot of yourlisteners can appreciate that,
and I'm sure a lot with smallchildren, although I'm not sure
(16:59):
a closed door works too wellwith small children.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well, yeah, In this case my husband was around.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
It wasn't like, oh, Javier's got five minutes to
roam the house.
God forbid, it would haveburned down a long time ago.
But normally they're knockingon the door.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Oh yeah, mommy mommy, exactly so, and even when he
was really little, I would puthim in one of those little I
think it was like called ajungle, something you just stick
them in in and their legs hangout, and he had something to
occupy himself so I could atleast shower.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, you, you would be okay.
He would be safe for a littlewhile.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, and you know I'm going to go back to this
thing about about the bathroom.
Yeah, washing your hands, rightShirzad Shamim talks about that
.
Brushing your teeth rightShirzad Shamin talks about that
brushing your teeth, washingyour hands.
Just be in that moment doingthat thing.
(18:03):
Jon Kabat-Zinn is famous forreally teaching people how to
stay in the moment and mindfullywash the dishes, mindfully
sweep the floor, whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's it.
The minute our eyes are open,we jump out of bed, we're
heading to the shower, we're inour vehicles, we're heading to
work, or we stop and grab acoffee and some breakfast, and
then we're at work and the dayjust takes over and you arrive
home and you're exhausted.
(18:30):
But if you could just take amoment when your eyes open and
just take a deep breath, even beaware of your head on the
pillow yeah even when you getout of bed.
instead of jumping out of bed,get out and feel your feet just
(18:52):
on the floor.
Is the floor carpeted?
What does that feel like?
Is it cold?
And just take those few momentsand it can set your day up far
better than if you wake up.
Your mind is racing and you'rethinking about your to-do list.
Yeah, before you've even gottenout of bed, right?
(19:16):
That's a recipe for stress,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah and burnout.
Because, again, if you don'tfeel, I guess I'll speak for
myself, but I'm pretty sure I'mspeaking for other people as
well.
If you don't feel like you'rehaving a good time and I don't
mean your job's having a goodtime and I don't mean you know
you're not, your job's not acarnival or something but if
you're getting out of bed andyou're dreading your day, or
(19:40):
you're dreading going to work,or you're dreading seeing so and
so or not seeing so and so,then something has to give.
And no, I'm not saying go quityour job and be a vagabond.
I know God doesn't pay the rent.
Maybe God does, but I haven'tgotten any rent checks from God
lately.
But certainly we have to livein this world.
(20:03):
But I think that we might beable to consider what kind of
choices we're exercising or notexercising.
I have left jobs that I wassimply miserable at, and at one
(20:24):
point I left a job withouthaving a job to go to, but I was
so unhappy that I couldn't evensmile at work at all ever.
I would just sit there,catatonic.
And finally my boss said Jamie,if you don't smile, you're
going to have to quit.
And I said I quit.
I mean, it didn't even, itwasn't even a.
(20:46):
I didn't even think about it, Ijust said well then I quit and
at first I was frightened out ofmy skin.
This was back in my twenties,before I gave into the career
that I ended up doing, which wasteaching writing at a college.
But before that I was in anindustry that I didn't really
(21:09):
fit in and I wasn't a corporateperson, but I was in a
corporation and I just couldn'tstand it.
I had headaches every day, andso I was burnt out from about
the first month on, and I stayedin that job for 18 months, but
probably because I didn't knowhow to handle.
(21:30):
I didn't know how to handle, Ididn't have tools like I have
now, but the burnout was sopervasive in my life it affected
my marriage, it affected myhealth.
It affected my relationshipswith my coworkers.
It affected my kind of, myquote unquote standing in the
company.
If they like, they're like.
(21:51):
If you don't smile, you have toquit.
Like that's bad, yes, you know,when they don't even want to see
my sad face at work.
But I just made a choice.
I ended up, you know, landingon my feet, thank goodness, and
I'm not saying it's easy to dothat.
But it is oftentimes a matterof really assessing what am I
(22:15):
doing?
Am I doing something that makesme happy?
Am I doing what?
Am I doing what my passion is?
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And you talked about, you know, going down these
rabbit holes and findingdifferent ways to pursue your
passions.
Rabbit holes and findingdifferent ways to pursue your
passions.
And maybe in doing that too,you avoid burnout because you're
feeding your soul, your heartand your soul and you're not
constantly worried or frustratedor angry or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, it's so easy to get caught up in the fear If I
don't have this job, then what?
But we don't often take thatthought to the end degree.
But if you were to sit down anddo a paper, exercise, if I
didn't have this job, okay, Imight lose the house.
(23:08):
I might be on the streets, Imight, I might.
House, I might be on thestreets, I might, I might.
But then ask yourself but whatif doing that?
something better, showed up andthinking about all the things
that would light you up, and Ithink there's the fear, but it's
(23:31):
also knowing that you can'tpossibly leave this job.
You're a single woman, you'reon your own and you've got to
pay the rent.
There's nobody supporting you.
It's to find one thing in yourjob that you enjoy.
There was a reason why you tookthat position, unless it was
just a job to pay the rent.
(23:52):
But find one thing that makesyou feel good about who you are,
and it might be that you liketo organize.
They may all come to you andget you to organize the
Christmas party or somethingelse, or it may be you're a
mentor.
You bring people who are new inthe company under your wing.
(24:13):
Just find that one thing thatmakes you feel good about what
it is you're doing there, whyyou're even there and I know
during I keep going back to theCOVID, but I think we've got
that to look back on.
We changed oh yeah, we're nevergoing to go back there.
(24:33):
However, our values changed andit's now finding a company that
aligns with your values.
If you're one of these peoplewho believe in the environment,
then working for a gasolinecompany possibly isn't going to
align with your values.
(24:54):
So it's finding companies thatshare what's near and dear to
your heart.
But if that can take many, manyyears, but in the meantime, for
anybody who is unhappy withtheir work, just find that one
thing, because that will helpyou be able to go into that
(25:18):
situation daily without alwaysfeeling that it's stressful,
because living that way is not agood way.
It's going to end up withhealth issues.
Well, it shortens your life.
Yeah, burnout is not somethingfun to do and we're all guilty
(25:38):
of it.
I'll just do this, and thenI'll just take on this client,
and then I'll just do.
I'll just do.
And then, at the end of thejust do's, you realize you can't
even enjoy yourself on holidaybecause you've got nothing in
the tank.
And it's taking those littlesteps, as Jamie has been
(26:00):
alluding to, that we can helpourselves, and it could be just
being grateful for what you havein your life and not be always
comparing yourself on socialmedia.
Determine for yourself whatyour success means to you.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, so I want to stop you right there for a
moment, because I mentioned thisbefore.
We talk about aligning ourvalues with what we do for work
or who we hang out with orwhatever it is what we do for
fun, but I think before we evenget there, we have to stop and
take stock and do an inventoryof our values.
(26:47):
Some people might not even knowwhat they believe or know what
they love or know what they feelabout X, y or Z, and so it's
not even just is this aligned?
It's like what are my values?
Oh, I value environmentalintegrity and environmental
preservation, or I value, Ivalue giving people a sense of
(27:13):
purpose, and maybe you want tobe in a holistic health
profession or another caregivingprofession or whatever it is.
It doesn't matter what yourvalues are, but first of all,
figure out what the values areand maybe it's time to look in
the mirror.
Am I, you know?
(27:34):
What do I think I stand for?
And then take stock of yourlife.
Am I doing those things thatfeed the things I think I stand
for?
And for me, I had to switchcareers and I did.
I went from teaching college atuniversities, writing at
(27:56):
universities, to becoming adivinity school student, to
becoming a hospital chaplain, tothen becoming a coach, and now
I am a professional recoverycoach and enrolled in a drug and
alcohol counseling program andalcohol counseling program.
(28:18):
But it wasn't like I did it inone day.
It took years of trial anderror and saying, okay, I'm not
happy, what's wrong here?
But allowing myself time tomeditate and journal and make
mistakes and course correct,because that's going to happen
too.
So there's a little fear inthat, like, oh, I actually have
to look at what I'm doing, or Ihave to look at my values, and
(28:41):
we all have shadow sides, and sowe're not going to be perfect
and there will be times when wedo not act in alignment with the
values that we say we have.
And you know, god bless us all.
We just don't.
We're humans and we makemistakes and we do things that
we wish we hadn't done.
(29:01):
But embrace it and learn from it.
Like you were saying, you learnfrom all those different rabbit
holes that you've been down.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Absolutely.
And going back to what you weresaying, if you have no idea
what your purpose is, tryingdifferent things will help you,
because then you'll understandwhat you don't like and that'll
help you discover what it is youdo like.
And this is one of theexercises I do with my grief
(29:36):
clients, because I look at griefas being one of those mega
challenges in life that will getyou to sit up and pay attention
to your beliefs.
What do you believe?
Is it society's belief thatyou've got to get good grades,
get a job, get the white picketfence, get the house, get the
(29:58):
C-suite, or are those yourvalues?
Is that something you feel oris it something that parents or
society has fed you?
And this is an opportunity todetermine what are your beliefs.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Right, exactly, exactly, and I think that's a
big big thing is just, and thatis going to involve taking stock
and you can't keep moving.
You can't move 80 miles an hourand take stock of what's going
on because you're so busy movingfrom the next thing to the next
thing, to the next thing, andpretty soon it's 10 o'clock at
(30:38):
night.
Where did the day go?
You know, I used to be in amode where I would forget to eat
, I would forget to drink water,I would go eight hours without
nourishing my body and then Iwondered why I had a headache or
why I didn't feel good.
I would go eight hours withoutnourishing my body and then I
wondered why I had a headache orwhy I didn't feel good or why I
was tired or angry, or grouchy,or hangry, as people say.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, exactly when you don't eat.
Yeah, and unfortunately, fallingdown all those rabbit holes was
one of my top saboteurs therestless, because one quality
that I got to understand fromthe restless is when we get too
(31:25):
close to our emotions, it'ssquirrel squirrel Instead of, as
you said, sitting back.
Instead of, as you said,sitting back picking up a
journal or even typing yourfeelings out.
I mean, a lot of people areturning to blogs and very
(31:46):
successfully just putting whatit is that's going on for them
and if you avoid those feelings,they're going to help with the
overwhelm and everything else,because you need to be able to
feel those emotions when theycome up and allow the anger to
dissipate in a way that'shealthy, not put your finger up
on the highway because you'vebeen pulled, you know somebody's
(32:08):
pulled in front of you.
It's being able to bringyourself back into your body
with calmness, rather than thoseemotions, and unless we take
care of them, they're they'regoing to do that.
They're going to come out inthe most unopportune moment, and
I found, whenever I got tooclose to an emotion I wasn't
(32:29):
ready to deal with, I'd takeanother course.
I'd take another course.
I mean'd take another course.
I mean it's brilliant.
Look at all my learning and Ican share it with my clients so
they don't have to spend 10years of their life doing it.
But it's interesting thatunderstanding my restless better
(32:50):
has helped me get more in tunewith my own emotions.
And you think, being a griefcoach, that would be my first
thing, but being British, youknow we don't do emotions.
I truly had to learn about myemotions.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Right, and they're not something to be afraid of.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
No, because they're normal.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Anyone who hasn't seen Inside Out should go see
both one and two, because noneof those emotions could really
stand on its own.
They all needed each other andthey all had a purpose and a
role.
And every emotion isinformation.
Right, if I'm angry, that'sinformation.
What am I reacting to?
(33:34):
And oftentimes I think of angeras a feeling of powerlessness.
Like I, I am powerless overwhat you're doing or or what
just happened out there.
And then the next question iscan I do something about it?
Do I need to do something aboutit?
Should I even care about this?
(33:54):
And you know, scherzal talksabout the hand on the hot stove.
Yep, there it is.
Take your hand off and assessthe situation.
Don't keep it there until youhave nothing left but bone right
.
Yes, exactly, you can't cinchoff your skin and your muscles
and then say, dang, that was bad.
It's like yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
But I really appreciate anger because, yes,
like every emotion has apositive and a negative side.
They are signposts for us.
When I have a client who's sointo the grips of grief and
she's or he is sort of flataffect, voice is very, you know,
(34:40):
toneless.
Everything about them, it'shard yeah if I can get them to
come up with a thought or astatement that gets them into a
little bit of anger.
Anger has energy.
Anger can help you move along.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
And it's certainly a very important part of the grief
journey.
Yeah Right, it's a huge part ofit.
I mean, I think there'sprobably not one person
untouched by grief on thisplanet.
We've all had a loss of somesort that we're grieving.
It could be a loss of a life,or a lifestyle, or a person, a
(35:22):
pet.
It can be anything, right?
Yeah, and you're right thatflat affect is a dead giveaway,
like something, something's gotto give here, something's being
repressed but unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
What do we do, jamie?
When you know there's, or youdon't know that there's been a
death and the person sees you,they're going to paste this
smile on their face andeverything's going to be okay,
and in fact no mm-hmm stop ityeah just just allow yourself
(35:57):
and your emotions to come out.
If the person you're talking tocan't handle it, that's there
on them, not on you yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
So just a word to the wise, or a bit of encouragement
for those of you out there whenyou see somebody suffering, or
when you see somebody who'smaybe emoting in a way that is
inconsistent with what's goingon, ask them how they're doing
(36:28):
and listen.
Don't try to tell them how theyshould feel.
Don't try to fix them.
Say how are things going really?
And just wait and listen andthen, when they say I'm fine,
say really, really, are you fine?
You know, do you want to talkabout it?
I'm here to listen.
I can't tell you how many timesI haven't been fine and I just
(36:53):
wanted somebody to listen.
I didn't want to be fixed, Ididn't want to be told how to
feel, I didn't want to havesomebody compare my suffering
with the grand suffering of allof the starving children in some
developing country, becausethat's not helpful to me.
What's helpful is.
These are my feelings, this ismy experience.
(37:15):
Whether it's burnout or stress,or overwhelm, or anger or grief
, it doesn't matter.
But owning it is one thing andthen allowing other people to
own it and just witnessing it isanother.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
And that can be a beautiful ending.
If you like Jamie to burnout isdon't carry on alone.
You need somebody.
You need the support of othersto help you.
It's not going to go away.
There needs to be a change inyour daily routine for you to be
(37:51):
able to.
But, just as Jamie, you weresaying, sit and if you've got a
good friend this is what's goingon for me and just saying to
them I don't need fixing, Idon't need any words, I just
need to be heard, because howmany times are we listening to
people and we're not trulylistening?
(38:14):
We're listening to answer.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yes, oh yes, absolutely.
But if you're thinking in termsof, what am I going to say?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
next, yeah, yeah, we don't need to do that.
Just this is an opportunity foryou to put your hand on your
heart and breathe and justcreate that space for that
person to say and empty outwhat's on their mind.
Our brains is not going to beable to fix it as hard as we
(38:45):
think it's going to happen.
You need the heart to getinvolved, because it's a mind
body and I believe you broughtin the soul Because it's a mind
body and I believe you broughtin the soul.
We need all those parts and weneed the breath.
The breath is like the masterorchestrator of it all.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Right.
So burnout is the signal thatsomething needs to change.
Yes, you know, taking care ofour body, assessing what's going
on in our minds.
Yeah, taking care of our body,assessing what's going on in our
minds and maybe finding whatfeeds your spirit, whether,
again, it's finding somebody orsomething at work you like.
(39:23):
For me, I started taking dancelessons.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
That's beautiful because it's moving that energy
through you, and I always usethis analogy moving that energy
through you.
And I always use this analogy.
If you've ever watched thegeographic or any nature program
, you'll see the lion or thetiger chasing the gazelle and
the gazelle runs off.
And when it gets to what itfeels is safety, it'll look
(39:48):
around and it'll shake.
How often do we get our bodiesto safety?
Shake?
How often do we get our bodiesto safety and we shake off all
those neurochemicals andadrenalins and the cortisol that
are floating around in acocktail in our bodies.
And dancing is a beautiful way,beautiful, beautiful way of
(40:11):
releasing it.
And if you said, burnout is anopportunity to slow down and
stop, it's a signal Becausewhat's going to come next is
like that, two by four, and it'seither going to come out in
some autoimmune disease,diabetes, um, or severe
(40:35):
depression, because you'veyou've locked down all your
emotions.
Emotions are energy, they needto be released.
And depression, according tocarla mclaren, which is a
brilliant book that I discoveredthat taught me how to be with
my emotions it's called thelanguage of emotions, if you're
interested.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Okay, well, I'll add it to the show notes.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah, please do.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Beautiful body of work that shows us the
importance of not taking care,or what our emotions are there
to teach us.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Right, and that is a great place to end our
conversation.
We could go on forever, I thinkso.
So I encourage anybody here tolike and subscribe this podcast,
because the more that you likeand subscribe it, the more
people will see it and perhapsbe helped by it.
So we appreciate you coming andperhaps be helped by it.
(42:07):
So we appreciate you coming.
And before we go, just a quicklittle fun thing Okay, okay,
okay.
We all want to be sedated, butwe don't necessarily need a drug
or an alcohol or a bunch ofcrazy people walking around
right, we can be sedated by justbeing present.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Very much so, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Well, thank you, Anne , for joining us today, and
again, for all of you out therelistening or watching, there's a
reason this podcast is calledEmotional Intelligence.
It's because we can take backownership of our lives, of our
emotions, of everything.
And, again, that is included inwhat we've talked about
(42:52):
positive intelligence gettinginto your body, getting present,
recognizing the saboteurs thatwant to derail us.
All of that.
So until next time, Anne, and Iwill see you at the PQ Gym.
Goodbye.
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