May 17, 2025 • 42 mins
Have you ever recognized a pattern in yourself that you desperately wanted to change, yet found yourself repeating the same behaviors over and over? The disconnect between awareness and transformation is where many personal development journeys stall.
In this profound conversation with business consultant Martijn Lemmens, we dive deep into the revolutionary methodology of Psyche-K, a powerful approach to reprogramming the subconscious mind. Martijn shares how our life scripts are largely written during our first seven years, creating patterns that might have served us as children but can become limiting as adults.
What makes this episode particularly valuable is the practical four-step process Martijn outlines for creating lasting change: identifying your current state, clarifying what you truly want (not just what you don't want), performing a "balance" to reprogram limiting beliefs, and taking concrete action in the world. This framework bridges the gap between internal work and external results.
We explore fascinating parallels between Psyche-K, neurolinguistic programming, and emotional intelligence—revealing how befriending our inner critics rather than fighting against them creates space for transformation. Martijn shares compelling client stories, including one woman who realized she needed to "put herself on her own pedestal" rather than elevating everyone around her.
Perhaps most powerful is the realization that while we can't control external circumstances, we always have dominion over our inner world. "The whole world can be against me. My internal world can be beautiful as long as I believe in myself," Martijn observes. This shift in perception creates what feels like everyday miracles as new possibilities emerge.
Whether you're a business leader seeking to overcome perfectionism, someone struggling with people-pleasing tendencies, or simply curious about the connection between subconscious programming and daily life, this conversation offers practical wisdom and transformative insights for creating lasting change.
Martijn's Links:
https://www.dewerff.net/en/psych-k/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/martijnlemmens/
https://podfol.io/profile/martijn-lemmens
Want to learn how to build your EQ? Let's meet to see if working together is good fit.
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* Email: jami@jamicarlacio.com (mailto:%20jami@jamicarlacio.com)
* Find out more about my coaching services: https://jamicarlacio.com
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* Substack: https://substack.com/@eqmaven
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is about your response.
The whole world can be againstme.
My internal world can be abeautiful one as long as I
believe in myself.
And I think that is alsoimportant to realize, because if
we realize it's ultimatelyabout our internal world and our
perception of the world aroundus, that is when we can really
(00:21):
start to change, and by changingour perceptions and I use
Psyche for that we start tomanifest a different world
around us, maybe just by havinga new look on the world, or
maybe by taking action steps.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Welcome to the podcast Emotional Intelligence
your greatest asset and key tosuccess.
I'm your host, dr JamieCarlaccio, coming to you from
the Greater New Haven,connecticut area, as an
emotional intelligence, or EQcoach.
I'm committed to helping peopledevelop both emotional
intelligence and mental fitness.
That is, you'll come to regardproblems as situations that help
(01:07):
.
Thank you in between, pleasesubscribe to this podcast and
tap the like button so morepeople can enjoy the benefits of
EQ.
And now here's the show.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Welcome, welcome, welcome, good morning, good
afternoon, good evening everyone, wherever you are, whether
you're watching or listening,this is the podcast Emotional
Intelligence, and I am excitedto be with you today because we
are going to talk aboutsomething revolutionary in terms
of helping you learn to thinkdifferently and therefore to be
differently in the world.
(01:53):
And I have a wonderful guest.
His name is Martine Lemons.
Hello, thank you for coming.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Thank you very much, Jamie.
Thanks for having me as yourguest.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yes, it's my pleasure .
So for those of you who do notknow Martine, I'm going to give
you just a little bit ofbackground about him.
He is a seasoned businessconsultant with over 30 years of
experience, including 20 yearsat a top professional services
firm, and he has a unique blendof professional and personal
(02:23):
development expertise.
His corporate career hesuccessfully navigated the
rigorous demands of businessleadership, ultimately achieving
a prestigious promotion duringthe most challenging time of the
COVID-19 pandemic, and hisjourney was significantly
influenced by the thing that weare going to talk about today
(02:44):
Psych K.
It's a transformationalmethodology that he uses and
teaches.
His professional journey ischaracterized by his ability to
balance his analytical demandsof business and emotional
intelligence.
That's required for effectiveleadership, and that's something
I think we all need.
(03:05):
Whether you're in business orsomething else, anything coupled
with emotional intelligence isgoing to spell success, and at
his firm, he was recognized forhis ability to integrate
feedback swiftly, a skill thathe attributes to his deep
engagement with Psyche K, andthat method has helped him to
break through personal andprofessional barriers, which has
(03:28):
led to an enhanced presence andownership in his roles.
But beyond his corporateachievements, martine has a rich
background in personaldevelopment, including education
in neuro-linguistic programming, and we'll say maybe a few
words about that, martine, sothat the people who are not
familiar with that willunderstand what that is, because
that's also transformational,transactional analysis and
(03:53):
provocative coaching.
So these diverse skills havehelped him to support everyone
from business leaders toindividuals outside the
corporate world and theirpersonal growth and their
self-realization journeys.
And his approach is holistic,focusing on the inside-out
transformation to handleexternal challenges more
(04:13):
effectively.
So thank you again for coming.
I'm excited to talk about allof these things.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Jamie.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
First things first.
Okay, so I mentioned that somepeople may not understand what
neurolinguistic programming is.
So let's talk a little bitabout what that means and how
that translates into emotionalintelligence, and then maybe we
can segue into psych k I.
I say psych k, you say psychkay, you say psych-ay right, yes
?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
psych-ay correct.
So you want me to.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I'm asking you about neuro-linguistic programming.
So for those people who arewatching and listening, who
don't know a lot about it, canyou say a few words about it and
how that translates intoemotional intelligence?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yes, I suppose neuro-linguistic programming, or
NLP, as people pronounce it inshort, is a psychological
approach that explores theconnection between neuro-logical
processes, language andbehavioral patterns, language
(05:31):
and behavioral patterns.
It is a to me at least.
I've done the practitioner ofNLP.
It is a process and a methodthat teaches you about the
various parts that you consistof, that make up you as a whole
human being.
So it is a method that helpsyou understand yourself better
(05:54):
and therefore also helps yougrow, because once you
understand yourself better, youcan start working on your
transformation.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah.
So when I was training as acoach, we did do a little bit of
neuro-linguistic programmingtraining, and one of the things
that stood out to me was thisidea of really self-forgiveness,
for instance.
We know what we know when weknow it.
So helping you understand that,what you might've done when you
(06:25):
were 18, you did the best youcould with what you had at that
time.
You did what you knew, and soto look back at it at, say, 30
years old or older, and to sortof castigate yourself or
criticize yourself isn't veryhelpful.
A it's not an emotionallyintelligent response to how we
(06:48):
have relationships withourselves.
And so the other thing is,since it's called linguistic
programming, there's an elementof talk, right, there's an
element of how do we talk toourselves, how do we talk to
other people, what is thelanguage that we use, and what
comes to my mind is this idea ofquote unquote problems.
(07:10):
One of the things that I focusa lot on is not thinking of
things as problems but assituations that demand a
response.
So can you respond to any ofthat?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, I think that's all beautiful.
For me, it has been quite sometime ago that I had those
initial courses around NLP.
What I remember very much fromit is that it was indeed about
language, but it was alsolooking at yourself as the
various parts.
Like you have your criticalpart, or there you go.
(07:47):
Remember one beautiful exerciseabout um I, I had this craving
for candy, and in an exerciseyou could, you could just put
something on the floor that wasthen, uh, your part of craving
for candy, and by switchingbetween those floor anchors that
you had put out there, youcould explore how your craving
(08:10):
for whatever it was in my caseit was candy was influencing you
and why you needed that and thelanguage that came with that.
And then, as you said,forgiveness, understanding, so
that you could instead, insteadof staying critical, you could
change that position that youhad about that specific part of
(08:32):
you.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Oh, that makes perfect sense and that leads me
into a perfect segue to talk alittle bit about positive
intelligence and emotionalintelligence and our saboteurs.
Because if we have a criticaljudge the inner critic, the
judge, whatever you want to callit and that's dictating how we
think about ourselves, how weinteract with other people, how
(08:54):
we approach life, and the judgehas accomplices.
So we have the people pleaser,we have the controller, you know
.
We have the hyper vigilantperson, we have the hyper
rational person and hyperachiever, and so on.
You know the avoider, someonewho avoids conflict.
So any one of those parts canbe dominant at any given time
(09:20):
and running the show if we'renot aware of it, and running the
show if we're not aware of it,correct.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So I would say these are all subconscious parts that
play up in any situation aroundyou.
When the stress gets a bithigher in certain work
situations, there is learnedpatterns, the judge, as you call
them.
I prefer personally the wordinner critic because I always
hear that critical voice that isand it's our voice right yes,
exactly, and the ventriloquistyes, and it is almost as if you
(09:54):
can talk to it, but it's not.
There is another person in myhead.
I mean, I am just one personand and you are one person and
we are all one person, soultimately it is us.
So, whether it's the judge orthe inner critic, it is a part
of us, but it is a subconsciouspart and that means that it is
running the show typicallybecause it is in control 95 of
(10:17):
the day, whereas our consciousmind that is usually happy and
creative and wants to explorenew things, that is only in
control about 5% of the day.
So it will always lose fromthat huge inner critic or inner
judge that we have.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
But there's hope because if we can bring to the
forefront of our consciousnessthese subconscious parts that
have been kind of runningunchecked, you know, and the
space between our ears, that'swhere I think some of the real
work happens.
You know, I know for myself,and in my coaching training I
(10:55):
learned that as soon as I couldrecognize that the voice of the
judge or the inner critic wasn'tactually real or that I could
change that narrative, I couldchange the dialogue, I could
change the script and I couldsay, oh, my people pleaser is
coming out.
I wonder what's going on withthat.
(11:16):
Maybe there's some traumaresponse or some learned
behavior that got me through asituation in the past where I
needed to be a people pleaser.
But that behavior and thatattitude and that talk doesn't
serve me anymore exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
The first step is always that you know that it's
there, that you recognize, andthen the next step is maybe to
cope with it, so to maybe try tochange your behavior.
Ultimately, it's, of course,what we really want is that we
can change it so that that wholecritical voice just stops
(11:57):
talking, that we don't have itanymore, that my perfectionism
isn't there anymore because I'mjust completely okay with not
being perfect, or exactly.
It all starts with acknowledging, knowing that you have these
(12:18):
parts inside of you that youstart to recognize when they
play up, when they take over,and then it's all about and how
can we now change that?
And that is sometimes what thechallenge is, because we can, of
course, develop copingstrategies, like if, if I have
to work on my anger management,maybe I learn how to count to 10
(12:39):
or take a deep breath, or, whenI have fear for speaking in
public, I take three deepbreaths and then go on to the
stage.
And that is a good first step.
But ultimately it's not yettransforming, and I suppose the
ultimate holy grail or the endgoal where I would like to work
towards is that we actuallytransform those inner voices and
(13:02):
those parts of us that werevery important, as you said, in
certain parts of our time, butnow that we're grownups are
maybe not that important anymore.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Right, right.
And so one thing that thatstruck me as you were talking
about acknowledging that theyexist is I have often talked
about kind of befriending them.
I know it sounds awfullystrange to say you want to
befriend your inner critic oryou want to, you know, befriend
your people, pleaser.
But when we can acknowledgethem and say thank, you helped
(13:36):
me get through XYZ, or youreally helped me when I was
eight, say thank you, you helpedme get through xyz, or you
really helped me when I waseight, or you really helped me
when I was 22, or whatever,acknowledging and thanking them
for the work that they did do,because they have helped you up
to this point.
But then there comes a time whenit crosses a line right, and
then it becomes reallysabotaging.
(13:57):
And so one thing that Istruggle with is anxiety, and so
I acknowledge my anxiety and Isay hello to it.
Oh, hello, anxiety.
Here you are.
What are you teaching me today?
What am I here to learn today?
And it diffuses the tensionbetween me not wanting to feel
anxious and the fact that theanxiety is there.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
You know there is a beautiful poem from a Sufi
mystic from a couple ofcenturies ago.
His name is.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I love that.
Yes, go ahead.
It's called the Guest Heart.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yes, yes, and it's so beautiful because he already
wrote invite them all in.
Whether it's grief, whetherit's sorrow, whether it's fear,
invite them in.
They are only here to give youa message, and once you've
learned the whole message, theycan disappear.
So I think that's beautiful,jamie, exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yes, and there's actually also there.
In the Zen Buddhist traditionthere's a story, and I've told
it on here before, but it isalong the same lines A yogi was
a cave dwelling.
Yogi was out gathering firewoodone day and he left the cave
and when he came back, all thesedemons and monsters were
(15:13):
swarming around through his cave.
And when he came back, allthese demons and monsters were
swarming around through his cave.
You know there was greed andenvy and lust and anger and all
the negative emotions, all thenegative things that you can
think of, were represented bythese demons.
And he tried to shoo them outShoo, shoo, get out, get out,
get out.
And they just kind of looked athim like dude, we're not
(15:34):
leaving.
And so he thought, okay, I'mgoing to teach him the Dharma.
So he sat them all down and hestarted teaching the Dharma and
they just stared at him withthese bug eyes and he said, okay
, clearly they're not leaving,they're not going to learn the
Dharma, and I'm just going tohave to accept that.
They're all here.
(15:54):
So we said, okay, okay, you'rehere.
All but one of them left.
They all just kind of trickledon out the door and the one that
left was, of course, thebiggest, the baddest demon, and
eventually he said okay, you'rehere, I accept that you're here.
He opened the demon's mouth andput his head inside, as if to
(16:16):
say, all right, you've got me,not in a kind of lose the battle
kind of a way, but as in anacceptance kind of a way, and he
just gave himself up to thatand then the demon went away.
And so that's what Rumi issaying, too right.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yes, exactly Now.
Although that might be abeautiful way, I've not been
able to put my head in thedemon's mouth yet because I'm
not seeing them.
There are technologies, thereare methodologies that we can
use to, as I would say,reprogram our subconscious mind,
because ultimately it's allsubconscious messages.
(17:01):
Our life script is beingwritten in the first seven to
eight years of our lives.
That is what psychologistsagree on and that means that
we're fully open.
But it's also the time where welearn a lot.
That is positive, but we alsotake certain decisions based on
the things that happen around usthat maybe later on are not so
(17:24):
useful anymore.
So if, as a small child, yousee that like the people pleaser
, if you see that when you arevery nice and you don't cry and
you help, and then your parentsare nice to you, you think, oh,
this is the way that gives methe most benefit.
And now, if that happens once,that you need it, it's okay.
(17:44):
But if it happens a thousandtimes, you will instill that as
a way of being.
But pleasing people when you're30 or 40 or 50 without ever
maybe pushing back or settingboundaries for yourself, that is
not healthy anymore and that iswhat we have to reprogram,
because my experience, jamie, isalso that when I know I'm a
(18:08):
people pleaser and I was, maybeI still am, but just knowing it
and acknowledging it is givingme rest inside but it doesn't
yet change my behavior.
I keep pleasing people.
I just now know it.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Exactly Very very important point.
Yes, you can acknowledge it andsay, oh yeah, now I know it.
But where does the change occur?
And that's probably wherePsyche comes in.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Well, exactly when I first encountered Psyche and it
was my wife who had done acourse or had done a workshop,
and she came home and she wantedto practice.
And I'm very skeptical with newmethodologies and new methods
Prove yourself first before Ibelieve.
But she practiced with me and Isaw change in my life.
(18:59):
I saw that in various fields inmy life that my behavior
started to change, it started toshift, it started to, in my
words, become better.
Maybe the people around mesometimes they had to deal with
that too.
They had to deal with that too,because when I please mass
(19:21):
people around me see a differentperson, uh, on the other side
of the table when they workedwith me or when we were at
events or whatever, yeah, so itreally helped me to have less
stress, to change all kinds ofparts of myself, that inner
critic, that judge, and whetherit was very practical situations
(19:41):
like on the tennis court whereI had this behavior of letting
other people win becauseotherwise they wouldn't like the
game, and they would get mad onthemselves.
And I was a people pleaser, sothen I let them win.
Because and I was a peoplepleaser, so then I let them win
because, hey, better to befriends than to have a fight on
the court Wow, because Itransformed my perfectionism,
(20:06):
which helped me delegate my workto my team better, and suddenly
I had time left to support them, as before, where I was always
so busy and they were not thatbusy or not as busy as I was.
So, whether it's well, I wouldsay, in any aspect of your life,
you can actually change thatjudge, that inner critic,
(20:29):
because it's all based onsubconscious beliefs.
And that is what Psyche is amethod to change limiting
subconscious beliefs intosupporting beliefs so.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
So the question now is we talked about a lot of the
self-awareness and there's amethodology and you learn it
what do you actually do or notdo in order to really affect the
change that you want?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
yes, um, in psyche, we work with a process.
I always call it the four-stepprocess when you want to work on
a certain thing, um, let's sayI, I want to work on um, my
perfectionism, and I realizethat I'm a perfectionist, and
(21:19):
then I ask myself but what do Iwant instead?
Well, maybe my answer and thisis really the internal searching
for the answers.
Maybe my answer is somethinglike I want to relax when I make
mistakes.
Well, that is what I want, sothat's the desire.
But then we change it into agoal statement, like I relax
(21:42):
when making mistakes, or I amallowed to make mistakes, or I
embrace the mistakes I make.
So it's a positive goalstatement about what it is we
actually want, instead of thatlimiting behavior.
And then we do a balanceprocess, and the balance process
is is we use the balance forkind of an exercise, a psyche
(22:08):
exercise, and there is a fewdozens of exercises that we can
do.
But in the basic workshop,where you learn Psyche, you
learn two beautiful processes,two beautiful balance processes.
And by doing those on thispositive goal statement, we
programming, program it into oursubconscious mind and the idea
(22:32):
is that if you program thesupporting beliefs, that the
limiting beliefs are overwritten.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Okay, how long does this take?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, well, that's a great question A balance process
yeah a balance process takes acouple of minutes A session to
work on a certain topic.
Yeah, that can take.
Well, if I have one-on-onesessions with my clients, for
example, they typically take 90minutes and during a session we
do between five and eightbalance processes because the
(23:07):
time mostly goes into.
Yeah, but what is it reallythat we want, so many of us?
When you ask people what is ityou really want, they will still
tell you what they don't want.
I don't want to be aperfectionist.
I don't want to be shy, I don'twant to be to have so much fear
, but really daring to expresswhat it is you do want.
(23:30):
That is usually what takes thetime.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
I love that and I need to stop there just for a
second, because that is soimportant.
I think you're right.
We're so conditioned to knowwhat we don't want that we don't
spend enough time reallydigging into what we do want.
And I wonder too if there isn'tsome fear associated with that,
because we're not often used togetting what we want, because
(23:58):
we often get what we don't wantand so our mind has been
magnified on the thing we don'twant and and it spends time on
resisting.
But to really dig into and saywhat exactly do I want and what
does this look like?
That seems to be where the workis.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Exactly so.
I remember a beautiful examplefrom my practice.
While you were talking, it wasthis client that I was working
with doing a psyche session andshe was talking about her
hesitation to step up andsuddenly she said something like
I always put everybody aroundme and we were talking about the
work.
So, my colleagues, I always putthem on a pedestal.
(24:38):
I put everybody on a pedestaland I then said, well, what is
it you want instead?
And what she said is I don'twant to put them on a pedestal.
And I asked again yeah, that'swhat you don't want, and what is
it you do want?
And then she really did thework inside and and that came in
motion and she said what Ireally want is in my life, I
(25:01):
want to put me on my ownpedestal because I'm worth it
yeah and then we did a pedestal,and I don't sorry.
Then we did a balance and Idon't know remember what the
exact goal statement was, but itwas something like I deserve my
own pedestal or I am worthy tostand on my pedestal.
(25:21):
And it was beautiful because itwas a huge change, because
suddenly she leveled up with theother people in her mind, so
from inside she said, yeah, butwe're all equal, we're
colleagues, we're workingtogether.
I don't have to hold myselfback, I'm allowed to step up and
I'm sure that at her work later, back at her work, she, she
(25:43):
will see you change, becausewhen you look at your colleagues
, you see other people withtheir own challenges in life and
with their own behaviors thatare great or that are maybe
limiting, instead of alwaysholding yourself back, feeling
small and looking at the rest ofthe world.
And they are all big and andand stronger than yourself yeah,
(26:07):
so I I'm hearing some reallyimportant things there.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
One of them is is really adopting a healthy
self-assessment.
You know, when we put otherpeople first or put up a
pedestal or downplay our ownachievements or our own
abilities or our own knowledge,we're really denying who we
(26:30):
really are on some level.
And maybe we learned it as akid, maybe we learned it on the
playground, maybe we learned itat home, but we learned it and
it was internalized.
And, as you said, we, wedeveloped basic scripts in the
first seven years of our lives.
And so, when we've internalizedcertain things that we've
(26:53):
interpreted maybe incorrectly,our ego said this is what I have
to do to be safe, this is whatI have to do to make friends,
this is what I have to do to getahead in the world.
Then, all of a sudden, you're3540 years old and you're doing
these things at work andsabotaging your success, and
(27:14):
you're not sure why.
You're like, why am I doingthis thing?
And even just getting thiswoman to say ah, here's what I
really want.
I want to feel and believe thatI'm on an equal footing with
everybody exactly, exactly, andshe probably had homework to do,
right?
I mean, it'd be great if shesort of left your office and was
(27:35):
sparkling new, but she probablyhad to work on that yeah, what
I, what I truly love aboutpsyche is that, well, the fact
that you can transform your atthe subconscious level.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
But I spoke about that four-step process.
So step one is is how are younow Step?
two is what you want instead.
Step three is do a balance forwhat it is you want, and that is
like a little circle and you gothrough it until you feel like,
how is it now with myperfectionism?
Oh, I feel at ease.
The fourth step is then anaction step in the outside world
(28:12):
.
Because it's beautiful if we doall kinds of exercises, psyche
balances, and we feel very niceinside and very strong.
But then you get back to theoutside world and what it is is
you want to see change.
You don't want to be in mypractice, do nice work and then
do not see any change in youroutside world, because that is
(28:35):
where your life happensultimately.
So just feeling good inside isvery nice, but a psyche session
always ends with define a smallaction step in the outside world
, something that you alwayswanted to do but you were not
able to or you were very nervousabout.
And with that action step it'slike a domino stone.
(28:57):
You know those contests wherebyyou push over one domino stone
and then all the others fall.
If you do the first action step, your subconscious afterwards
will help you do the rest ofyour steps and then the change
comes.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
And then it's reinforced because a change
comes.
You get this positivereinforcement for the change and
then you do it again.
It's our brain's reward systemat play, and I cannot help but
put this into positive andemotional intelligence terms.
One of the things we do is welearn to look within, and
(29:34):
oftentimes there we need todevelop a little bit of empathy
for ourselves and have more ofan adequate self-assessment, you
know, not the critical one, butthe adequate one, the one
that's a little bit moremeasured and balanced.
And then one of the otherthings is this explorer measured
and balanced.
(29:54):
And then one of the other thingsis this explorer right, you
know, our inner sage has anexplorer power.
So this is where you come inand help the client explore what
is it that you don't want?
And now, what is it that you dowant?
And then navigate right.
How are we going to?
What is this going to look like, you know, and what steps do I
need to take?
And then activate, you know,and maybe innovate.
(30:14):
Right, there's something newthat you might need to do, or a
place you need to go, or peopleyou need to meet.
Maybe you're not in the rightplace for the things that you
want to do in your life.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Exactly, but yeah, and small steps lead to huge
results if you just allow thatthe process to happen, correct.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
So there's a there's an element to a sincere belief.
Like I believe in this process.
I know it works.
You know you can certainlybring your belief into the
interaction with the client.
You know and you can certainlybring your belief into the
(31:04):
interaction with the client, butultimately, their willingness
to do this work and believe thatit works and believe in you
helping them to achieve thatgoal is also part of it.
Right, I don't know if you'veever dealt with skeptics that
have turned some skeptics intobelievers, or do people kind of
come to you and say, all right,I'll do whatever it takes,
change, Help me change.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I've seen everything on that front, Jamie, exactly.
I was a skeptic myself.
And by doing a few balances,with my wife facilitating, and
then I saw change in my life.
I thought, oh, wow, somethingis happening and I wanted to
have more because I have alwaystrusted my own experiences.
And of course, there are peoplein my practice who have been
(31:37):
sent by somebody else, who havedone everything already to
change and they weren't able toSome become believers.
They see that it works, justlike I have seen that.
I have also people who are inmy practice who constantly say
Martijn, this is hocus pocus,how can this be?
(31:57):
How can this be?
I don't understand it, but Isee change in my life.
So I keep coming because I dowant to change my life.
And of course, there is veryobjective people who only
believe in what scientists sayand that something is proven,
and they probably don't end upin my practice at all because
(32:20):
they think that there is onlyone path in life.
And that's fine too.
We all, as we spoke about thispoem of Rumi, we all are
responsible for inviting theguests into our guest house and
we all can do that in the way wewant.
And some people follow thepsyche path, some people follow
(32:41):
other paths, and that's fine.
We are all in control of ourown life.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Right, right, and I guess the thing to remember is
that we actually have the powerto make those decisions and it's
kind of on us to own up to that, like, yes, I made this
decision, I chose this or Ichose not to do that, as opposed
to this happened to me.
You know, I hear and I seevictim mentality all around me,
(33:11):
as if somebody did something toso-and-so, because then that
absolves you of responsibility.
You don't have to do anythingIf somebody did something to you
.
I heard somebody talking aboutviolating parole and he said he
violated me.
And I said no, no, he didn'tviolate you.
(33:35):
You violated your parole andyou got caught.
So he did not violate you.
But the way that he said it heviolated me made it sound like
he'd done absolutely nothing.
And this big bad parole officerviolated him.
But but that kind of thinkingof he violated me is going to
(33:58):
keep this person in thatconstant victim mode and he's
not going to be in a position tochange the things that he says
he wants to change yeah, thatbrings me actually to another
unique element of the psychicprocesses, which is that partner
(34:18):
, the one you work with as afacilitator is always in control
Partner knows what they want tochange and they have the change
inside of them already.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
It is just about extracting the change.
So I never think that I amchanging other people anymore.
In the past, when I was coachingpeople, it always felt like a
heavy burden on my shoulder,like I have to do this and I
have to have a result and I haveto help somebody.
And these days when somebodyenters my practice and they say,
(34:50):
I understand, you can help me,I always tell them well, let's
work on you helping yourself.
And I smile with that becauseI'm like, yeah, that's how we
were raised.
You go to the doctor, thedoctor cures you.
But what if you go to thedoctor for a bit of help so that
you can cure yourself?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Really becoming responsible and accountable for
your own actions in your ownlife right that sounds to me
more powerful and more the lifethat I actually want to live
right.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
right and when we feel empowered and we make those
choices a, we can confront theparts of ourselves that have
been making maybe bad choices ornot so good choices, and as
soon as we can own up to that,like, oh yeah, I made that
choice, I made that choice, or Imade the choice not to do
something or whatever it is,whether it's eating certain
(35:47):
foods or not exercising or, youknow, pursuing a path that isn't
right for you.
Whatever that is, we do have alot of choice.
Now, that isn't to say thatthere are life circumstances
that kind of limit what we cando and where we can go and so on
(36:09):
, but within those boundaries wealways have choices exactly,
exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
And people can get depressed because their
environment is putting stuff ontop on them or because they
can't control the weather, orbecause their balls is ugly to
them, but you always controlyour inner world yes I think
that is what what your storythat you told was about about
(36:39):
the demons and that's also whatthat poem is about it is about
your response.
The whole world can be againstme.
My internal world can be abeautiful one as long as I
believe in myself.
And and I think that is alsoimportant to realize, because if
we realize it's ultimatelyabout our internal world and our
(36:59):
perception of the world aroundus that is when we can really
start to change, and by changingour perceptions and I use
Psyche for that we start tomanifest a different world
around us, maybe just by havinga new look on the world, or
maybe by taking action steps toget away from where we are.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Right, right.
So it's about, you know there'sa saying awareness, acceptance
and action.
So we need to become aware ofwhat's going on, that we want to
change, accept that here'swhat's going on, here's the
thing, and accept ourresponsibility, or accept that
we have the power to change itto some extent, and then taking
(37:47):
the action.
And I just love this.
I love this conversation somuch because you know what we're
going to be playing a song thatyou chose about miracles and,
(38:13):
on some level even though PsycheK could be said to be, you know
, doing the next right thing toachieve the result you want, on
level, it feels like a miracle.
It feels like a miracle becausethe shift can be so profound
yes, it can um I see miraclesall the time so do I, so do I in
myself and in others.
And I think since I became apositive intelligence slash,
(38:34):
emotional intelligence coach, Ihave seen seismic shifts in my
life, and they have come in theform of miracles.
They've come in the form of,you know, kind of living a life
of my wildest dreams.
You know, things I didn't evenknow were possible have come
into my life as a result of myshift in my thinking about who I
(38:59):
am in the world and how I cancontribute to society.
You know, it's easy to complainabout politics, it's easy to
complain about other people,it's easy to complain about your
job, but I think you wouldagree with me that we have the
power to change a lot of thatNow.
I can't change my boss, I can'tchange the building where I
(39:21):
work, I can't change who thepresident of the United States
is or whatever, but I can choosehow to respond within that and
there's always a way to do it ina positive way exactly always.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yes, I fully agree.
So, yeah, can't add anythingthere, jamie, because, um, it's
ultimately all about our ownperception of the world around
us, and about ourselves right.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Right, and so let's just play a snippet of a song by
Sarah McLachlan that you foundfor us, and I'm just going to
pull it up.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
It's just another ordinary miracle.
Today the sky looks well, it'stime to snow.
Don't need to teach a seed togrow.
(40:23):
It's just another ordinarymiracle today.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
So copyright rules prevent me from playing too much
of the song, but the idea isthat if we can live our lives
according to this idea thatevery day can be a miracle, even
little ordinary things, justimagine how much brighter our
outlook would.
Be right, or is?
Speaker 1 (40:56):
our, our outlook would be right or is?
Speaker 3 (40:57):
yes, our life would be much richer much more, much
more at peace as well.
Yes, um, thank you so much forcoming on and sharing about site
k today.
Is there anything, any kind ofparting thoughts you want to
leave us with before we go?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
well, I suppose the only one is is if there's any
listeners or viewers that wantto know more, um, send me a
whatsapp message, give me a call, send me an email.
I love talking about the topicof self-realization by changing
our subconscious mind.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yes, absolutely.
Martijn's information will bein the show notes and, as always
, if you want to learn moreabout emotional intelligence and
positive intelligence coaching,my information is in the show
notes.
I hope this resonated with you.
I hope that you feel like thereis the distinct chance that, if
(41:52):
you want to change your life,you can and we will see you all
at the Emotional IntelligenceGym Exercise that emotional
intelligence muscle.
Please like and subscribe tothis podcast and until next time
, we'll see you later.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Thank you.
It is about your response.
The whole world can be againstme.
My internal world can be abeautiful one as long as I
believe in myself.
And I think that is alsoimportant to realize, because if
we realize it's ultimatelyabout our internal world and our
perception of the world aroundus, that is when we can really
(00:21):
start to change, and by changingour perceptions and I use
Psyche for that we start tomanifest a different world
around us, maybe just by havinga new look on the world, or
maybe by taking action steps.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Welcome to the podcast Emotional Intelligence
your greatest asset and key tosuccess.
I'm your host, dr JamieCarlaccio, coming to you from
the Greater New Haven,connecticut area, as an
emotional intelligence, or EQcoach.
I'm committed to helping peopledevelop both emotional
intelligence and mental fitness.
That is, you'll come to regardproblems as situations that help
(01:07):
.
Thank you in between, pleasesubscribe to this podcast and
tap the like button so morepeople can enjoy the benefits of
EQ.
And now here's the show.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Welcome, welcome, welcome, good morning, good
afternoon, good evening everyone, wherever you are, whether
you're watching or listening,this is the podcast Emotional
Intelligence, and I am excitedto be with you today because we
are going to talk aboutsomething revolutionary in terms
of helping you learn to thinkdifferently and therefore to be
differently in the world.
(01:53):
And I have a wonderful guest.
His name is Martine Lemons.
Hello, thank you for coming.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Thank you very much, Jamie.
Thanks for having me as yourguest.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yes, it's my pleasure .
So for those of you who do notknow Martine, I'm going to give
you just a little bit ofbackground about him.
He is a seasoned businessconsultant with over 30 years of
experience, including 20 yearsat a top professional services
firm, and he has a unique blendof professional and personal
(02:23):
development expertise.
His corporate career hesuccessfully navigated the
rigorous demands of businessleadership, ultimately achieving
a prestigious promotion duringthe most challenging time of the
COVID-19 pandemic, and hisjourney was significantly
influenced by the thing that weare going to talk about today
(02:44):
Psych K.
It's a transformationalmethodology that he uses and
teaches.
His professional journey ischaracterized by his ability to
balance his analytical demandsof business and emotional
intelligence.
That's required for effectiveleadership, and that's something
I think we all need.
(03:05):
Whether you're in business orsomething else, anything coupled
with emotional intelligence isgoing to spell success, and at
his firm, he was recognized forhis ability to integrate
feedback swiftly, a skill thathe attributes to his deep
engagement with Psyche K, andthat method has helped him to
break through personal andprofessional barriers, which has
(03:28):
led to an enhanced presence andownership in his roles.
But beyond his corporateachievements, martine has a rich
background in personaldevelopment, including education
in neuro-linguistic programming, and we'll say maybe a few
words about that, martine, sothat the people who are not
familiar with that willunderstand what that is, because
that's also transformational,transactional analysis and
(03:53):
provocative coaching.
So these diverse skills havehelped him to support everyone
from business leaders toindividuals outside the
corporate world and theirpersonal growth and their
self-realization journeys.
And his approach is holistic,focusing on the inside-out
transformation to handleexternal challenges more
(04:13):
effectively.
So thank you again for coming.
I'm excited to talk about allof these things.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Jamie.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
First things first.
Okay, so I mentioned that somepeople may not understand what
neurolinguistic programming is.
So let's talk a little bitabout what that means and how
that translates into emotionalintelligence, and then maybe we
can segue into psych k I.
I say psych k, you say psychkay, you say psych-ay right, yes
?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
psych-ay correct.
So you want me to.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I'm asking you about neuro-linguistic programming.
So for those people who arewatching and listening, who
don't know a lot about it, canyou say a few words about it and
how that translates intoemotional intelligence?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yes, I suppose neuro-linguistic programming, or
NLP, as people pronounce it inshort, is a psychological
approach that explores theconnection between neuro-logical
processes, language andbehavioral patterns, language
(05:31):
and behavioral patterns.
It is a to me at least.
I've done the practitioner ofNLP.
It is a process and a methodthat teaches you about the
various parts that you consistof, that make up you as a whole
human being.
So it is a method that helpsyou understand yourself better
(05:54):
and therefore also helps yougrow, because once you
understand yourself better, youcan start working on your
transformation.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah.
So when I was training as acoach, we did do a little bit of
neuro-linguistic programmingtraining, and one of the things
that stood out to me was thisidea of really self-forgiveness,
for instance.
We know what we know when weknow it.
So helping you understand that,what you might've done when you
(06:25):
were 18, you did the best youcould with what you had at that
time.
You did what you knew, and soto look back at it at, say, 30
years old or older, and to sortof castigate yourself or
criticize yourself isn't veryhelpful.
A it's not an emotionallyintelligent response to how we
(06:48):
have relationships withourselves.
And so the other thing is,since it's called linguistic
programming, there's an elementof talk, right, there's an
element of how do we talk toourselves, how do we talk to
other people, what is thelanguage that we use, and what
comes to my mind is this idea ofquote unquote problems.
(07:10):
One of the things that I focusa lot on is not thinking of
things as problems but assituations that demand a
response.
So can you respond to any ofthat?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, I think that's all beautiful.
For me, it has been quite sometime ago that I had those
initial courses around NLP.
What I remember very much fromit is that it was indeed about
language, but it was alsolooking at yourself as the
various parts.
Like you have your criticalpart, or there you go.
(07:47):
Remember one beautiful exerciseabout um I, I had this craving
for candy, and in an exerciseyou could, you could just put
something on the floor that wasthen, uh, your part of craving
for candy, and by switchingbetween those floor anchors that
you had put out there, youcould explore how your craving
(08:10):
for whatever it was in my caseit was candy was influencing you
and why you needed that and thelanguage that came with that.
And then, as you said,forgiveness, understanding, so
that you could instead, insteadof staying critical, you could
change that position that youhad about that specific part of
(08:32):
you.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Oh, that makes perfect sense and that leads me
into a perfect segue to talk alittle bit about positive
intelligence and emotionalintelligence and our saboteurs.
Because if we have a criticaljudge the inner critic, the
judge, whatever you want to callit and that's dictating how we
think about ourselves, how weinteract with other people, how
(08:54):
we approach life, and the judgehas accomplices.
So we have the people pleaser,we have the controller, you know
.
We have the hyper vigilantperson, we have the hyper
rational person and hyperachiever, and so on.
You know the avoider, someonewho avoids conflict.
So any one of those parts canbe dominant at any given time
(09:20):
and running the show if we'renot aware of it, and running the
show if we're not aware of it,correct.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So I would say these are all subconscious parts that
play up in any situation aroundyou.
When the stress gets a bithigher in certain work
situations, there is learnedpatterns, the judge, as you call
them.
I prefer personally the wordinner critic because I always
hear that critical voice that isand it's our voice right yes,
exactly, and the ventriloquistyes, and it is almost as if you
(09:54):
can talk to it, but it's not.
There is another person in myhead.
I mean, I am just one personand and you are one person and
we are all one person, soultimately it is us.
So, whether it's the judge orthe inner critic, it is a part
of us, but it is a subconsciouspart and that means that it is
running the show typicallybecause it is in control 95 of
(10:17):
the day, whereas our consciousmind that is usually happy and
creative and wants to explorenew things, that is only in
control about 5% of the day.
So it will always lose fromthat huge inner critic or inner
judge that we have.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
But there's hope because if we can bring to the
forefront of our consciousnessthese subconscious parts that
have been kind of runningunchecked, you know, and the
space between our ears, that'swhere I think some of the real
work happens.
You know, I know for myself,and in my coaching training I
(10:55):
learned that as soon as I couldrecognize that the voice of the
judge or the inner critic wasn'tactually real or that I could
change that narrative, I couldchange the dialogue, I could
change the script and I couldsay, oh, my people pleaser is
coming out.
I wonder what's going on withthat.
(11:16):
Maybe there's some traumaresponse or some learned
behavior that got me through asituation in the past where I
needed to be a people pleaser.
But that behavior and thatattitude and that talk doesn't
serve me anymore exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
The first step is always that you know that it's
there, that you recognize, andthen the next step is maybe to
cope with it, so to maybe try tochange your behavior.
Ultimately, it's, of course,what we really want is that we
can change it so that that wholecritical voice just stops
(11:57):
talking, that we don't have itanymore, that my perfectionism
isn't there anymore because I'mjust completely okay with not
being perfect, or exactly.
It all starts with acknowledging, knowing that you have these
(12:18):
parts inside of you that youstart to recognize when they
play up, when they take over,and then it's all about and how
can we now change that?
And that is sometimes what thechallenge is, because we can, of
course, develop copingstrategies, like if, if I have
to work on my anger management,maybe I learn how to count to 10
(12:39):
or take a deep breath, or, whenI have fear for speaking in
public, I take three deepbreaths and then go on to the
stage.
And that is a good first step.
But ultimately it's not yettransforming, and I suppose the
ultimate holy grail or the endgoal where I would like to work
towards is that we actuallytransform those inner voices and
(13:02):
those parts of us that werevery important, as you said, in
certain parts of our time, butnow that we're grownups are
maybe not that important anymore.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Right, right.
And so one thing that thatstruck me as you were talking
about acknowledging that theyexist is I have often talked
about kind of befriending them.
I know it sounds awfullystrange to say you want to
befriend your inner critic oryou want to, you know, befriend
your people, pleaser.
But when we can acknowledgethem and say thank, you helped
(13:36):
me get through XYZ, or youreally helped me when I was
eight, say thank you, you helpedme get through xyz, or you
really helped me when I waseight, or you really helped me
when I was 22, or whatever,acknowledging and thanking them
for the work that they did do,because they have helped you up
to this point.
But then there comes a time whenit crosses a line right, and
then it becomes reallysabotaging.
(13:57):
And so one thing that Istruggle with is anxiety, and so
I acknowledge my anxiety and Isay hello to it.
Oh, hello, anxiety.
Here you are.
What are you teaching me today?
What am I here to learn today?
And it diffuses the tensionbetween me not wanting to feel
anxious and the fact that theanxiety is there.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
You know there is a beautiful poem from a Sufi
mystic from a couple ofcenturies ago.
His name is.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I love that.
Yes, go ahead.
It's called the Guest Heart.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yes, yes, and it's so beautiful because he already
wrote invite them all in.
Whether it's grief, whetherit's sorrow, whether it's fear,
invite them in.
They are only here to give youa message, and once you've
learned the whole message, theycan disappear.
So I think that's beautiful,jamie, exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yes, and there's actually also there.
In the Zen Buddhist traditionthere's a story, and I've told
it on here before, but it isalong the same lines A yogi was
a cave dwelling.
Yogi was out gathering firewoodone day and he left the cave
and when he came back, all thesedemons and monsters were
(15:13):
swarming around through his cave.
And when he came back, allthese demons and monsters were
swarming around through his cave.
You know there was greed andenvy and lust and anger and all
the negative emotions, all thenegative things that you can
think of, were represented bythese demons.
And he tried to shoo them outShoo, shoo, get out, get out,
get out.
And they just kind of looked athim like dude, we're not
(15:34):
leaving.
And so he thought, okay, I'mgoing to teach him the Dharma.
So he sat them all down and hestarted teaching the Dharma and
they just stared at him withthese bug eyes and he said, okay
, clearly they're not leaving,they're not going to learn the
Dharma, and I'm just going tohave to accept that.
They're all here.
(15:54):
So we said, okay, okay, you'rehere.
All but one of them left.
They all just kind of trickledon out the door and the one that
left was, of course, thebiggest, the baddest demon, and
eventually he said okay, you'rehere, I accept that you're here.
He opened the demon's mouth andput his head inside, as if to
(16:16):
say, all right, you've got me,not in a kind of lose the battle
kind of a way, but as in anacceptance kind of a way, and he
just gave himself up to thatand then the demon went away.
And so that's what Rumi issaying, too right.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yes, exactly Now.
Although that might be abeautiful way, I've not been
able to put my head in thedemon's mouth yet because I'm
not seeing them.
There are technologies, thereare methodologies that we can
use to, as I would say,reprogram our subconscious mind,
because ultimately it's allsubconscious messages.
(17:01):
Our life script is beingwritten in the first seven to
eight years of our lives.
That is what psychologistsagree on and that means that
we're fully open.
But it's also the time where welearn a lot.
That is positive, but we alsotake certain decisions based on
the things that happen around usthat maybe later on are not so
(17:24):
useful anymore.
So if, as a small child, yousee that like the people pleaser
, if you see that when you arevery nice and you don't cry and
you help, and then your parentsare nice to you, you think, oh,
this is the way that gives methe most benefit.
And now, if that happens once,that you need it, it's okay.
(17:44):
But if it happens a thousandtimes, you will instill that as
a way of being.
But pleasing people when you're30 or 40 or 50 without ever
maybe pushing back or settingboundaries for yourself, that is
not healthy anymore and that iswhat we have to reprogram,
because my experience, jamie, isalso that when I know I'm a
(18:08):
people pleaser and I was, maybeI still am, but just knowing it
and acknowledging it is givingme rest inside but it doesn't
yet change my behavior.
I keep pleasing people.
I just now know it.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Exactly Very very important point.
Yes, you can acknowledge it andsay, oh yeah, now I know it.
But where does the change occur?
And that's probably wherePsyche comes in.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Well, exactly when I first encountered Psyche and it
was my wife who had done acourse or had done a workshop,
and she came home and she wantedto practice.
And I'm very skeptical with newmethodologies and new methods
Prove yourself first before Ibelieve.
But she practiced with me and Isaw change in my life.
(18:59):
I saw that in various fields inmy life that my behavior
started to change, it started toshift, it started to, in my
words, become better.
Maybe the people around mesometimes they had to deal with
that too.
They had to deal with that too,because when I please mass
(19:21):
people around me see a differentperson, uh, on the other side
of the table when they workedwith me or when we were at
events or whatever, yeah, so itreally helped me to have less
stress, to change all kinds ofparts of myself, that inner
critic, that judge, and whetherit was very practical situations
(19:41):
like on the tennis court whereI had this behavior of letting
other people win becauseotherwise they wouldn't like the
game, and they would get mad onthemselves.
And I was a people pleaser, sothen I let them win.
Because and I was a peoplepleaser, so then I let them win
because, hey, better to befriends than to have a fight on
the court Wow, because Itransformed my perfectionism,
(20:06):
which helped me delegate my workto my team better, and suddenly
I had time left to support them, as before, where I was always
so busy and they were not thatbusy or not as busy as I was.
So, whether it's well, I wouldsay, in any aspect of your life,
you can actually change thatjudge, that inner critic,
(20:29):
because it's all based onsubconscious beliefs.
And that is what Psyche is amethod to change limiting
subconscious beliefs intosupporting beliefs so.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
So the question now is we talked about a lot of the
self-awareness and there's amethodology and you learn it
what do you actually do or notdo in order to really affect the
change that you want?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
yes, um, in psyche, we work with a process.
I always call it the four-stepprocess when you want to work on
a certain thing, um, let's sayI, I want to work on um, my
perfectionism, and I realizethat I'm a perfectionist, and
(21:19):
then I ask myself but what do Iwant instead?
Well, maybe my answer and thisis really the internal searching
for the answers.
Maybe my answer is somethinglike I want to relax when I make
mistakes.
Well, that is what I want, sothat's the desire.
But then we change it into agoal statement, like I relax
(21:42):
when making mistakes, or I amallowed to make mistakes, or I
embrace the mistakes I make.
So it's a positive goalstatement about what it is we
actually want, instead of thatlimiting behavior.
And then we do a balanceprocess, and the balance process
is is we use the balance forkind of an exercise, a psyche
(22:08):
exercise, and there is a fewdozens of exercises that we can
do.
But in the basic workshop,where you learn Psyche, you
learn two beautiful processes,two beautiful balance processes.
And by doing those on thispositive goal statement, we
programming, program it into oursubconscious mind and the idea
(22:32):
is that if you program thesupporting beliefs, that the
limiting beliefs are overwritten.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Okay, how long does this take?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, well, that's a great question A balance process
yeah a balance process takes acouple of minutes A session to
work on a certain topic.
Yeah, that can take.
Well, if I have one-on-onesessions with my clients, for
example, they typically take 90minutes and during a session we
do between five and eightbalance processes because the
(23:07):
time mostly goes into.
Yeah, but what is it reallythat we want, so many of us?
When you ask people what is ityou really want, they will still
tell you what they don't want.
I don't want to be aperfectionist.
I don't want to be shy, I don'twant to be to have so much fear
, but really daring to expresswhat it is you do want.
(23:30):
That is usually what takes thetime.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
I love that and I need to stop there just for a
second, because that is soimportant.
I think you're right.
We're so conditioned to knowwhat we don't want that we don't
spend enough time reallydigging into what we do want.
And I wonder too if there isn'tsome fear associated with that,
because we're not often used togetting what we want, because
(23:58):
we often get what we don't wantand so our mind has been
magnified on the thing we don'twant and and it spends time on
resisting.
But to really dig into and saywhat exactly do I want and what
does this look like?
That seems to be where the workis.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Exactly so.
I remember a beautiful examplefrom my practice.
While you were talking, it wasthis client that I was working
with doing a psyche session andshe was talking about her
hesitation to step up andsuddenly she said something like
I always put everybody aroundme and we were talking about the
work.
So, my colleagues, I always putthem on a pedestal.
(24:38):
I put everybody on a pedestaland I then said, well, what is
it you want instead?
And what she said is I don'twant to put them on a pedestal.
And I asked again yeah, that'swhat you don't want, and what is
it you do want?
And then she really did thework inside and and that came in
motion and she said what Ireally want is in my life, I
(25:01):
want to put me on my ownpedestal because I'm worth it
yeah and then we did a pedestal,and I don't sorry.
Then we did a balance and Idon't know remember what the
exact goal statement was, but itwas something like I deserve my
own pedestal or I am worthy tostand on my pedestal.
(25:21):
And it was beautiful because itwas a huge change, because
suddenly she leveled up with theother people in her mind, so
from inside she said, yeah, butwe're all equal, we're
colleagues, we're workingtogether.
I don't have to hold myselfback, I'm allowed to step up and
I'm sure that at her work later, back at her work, she, she
(25:43):
will see you change, becausewhen you look at your colleagues
, you see other people withtheir own challenges in life and
with their own behaviors thatare great or that are maybe
limiting, instead of alwaysholding yourself back, feeling
small and looking at the rest ofthe world.
And they are all big and andand stronger than yourself yeah,
(26:07):
so I I'm hearing some reallyimportant things there.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
One of them is is really adopting a healthy
self-assessment.
You know, when we put otherpeople first or put up a
pedestal or downplay our ownachievements or our own
abilities or our own knowledge,we're really denying who we
(26:30):
really are on some level.
And maybe we learned it as akid, maybe we learned it on the
playground, maybe we learned itat home, but we learned it and
it was internalized.
And, as you said, we, wedeveloped basic scripts in the
first seven years of our lives.
And so, when we've internalizedcertain things that we've
(26:53):
interpreted maybe incorrectly,our ego said this is what I have
to do to be safe, this is whatI have to do to make friends,
this is what I have to do to getahead in the world.
Then, all of a sudden, you're3540 years old and you're doing
these things at work andsabotaging your success, and
(27:14):
you're not sure why.
You're like, why am I doingthis thing?
And even just getting thiswoman to say ah, here's what I
really want.
I want to feel and believe thatI'm on an equal footing with
everybody exactly, exactly, andshe probably had homework to do,
right?
I mean, it'd be great if shesort of left your office and was
(27:35):
sparkling new, but she probablyhad to work on that yeah, what
I, what I truly love aboutpsyche is that, well, the fact
that you can transform your atthe subconscious level.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
But I spoke about that four-step process.
So step one is is how are younow Step?
two is what you want instead.
Step three is do a balance forwhat it is you want, and that is
like a little circle and you gothrough it until you feel like,
how is it now with myperfectionism?
Oh, I feel at ease.
The fourth step is then anaction step in the outside world
(28:12):
.
Because it's beautiful if we doall kinds of exercises, psyche
balances, and we feel very niceinside and very strong.
But then you get back to theoutside world and what it is is
you want to see change.
You don't want to be in mypractice, do nice work and then
do not see any change in youroutside world, because that is
(28:35):
where your life happensultimately.
So just feeling good inside isvery nice, but a psyche session
always ends with define a smallaction step in the outside world
, something that you alwayswanted to do but you were not
able to or you were very nervousabout.
And with that action step it'slike a domino stone.
(28:57):
You know those contests wherebyyou push over one domino stone
and then all the others fall.
If you do the first action step, your subconscious afterwards
will help you do the rest ofyour steps and then the change
comes.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
And then it's reinforced because a change
comes.
You get this positivereinforcement for the change and
then you do it again.
It's our brain's reward systemat play, and I cannot help but
put this into positive andemotional intelligence terms.
One of the things we do is welearn to look within, and
(29:34):
oftentimes there we need todevelop a little bit of empathy
for ourselves and have more ofan adequate self-assessment, you
know, not the critical one, butthe adequate one, the one
that's a little bit moremeasured and balanced.
And then one of the otherthings is this explorer measured
and balanced.
(29:54):
And then one of the other thingsis this explorer right, you
know, our inner sage has anexplorer power.
So this is where you come inand help the client explore what
is it that you don't want?
And now, what is it that you dowant?
And then navigate right.
How are we going to?
What is this going to look like, you know, and what steps do I
need to take?
And then activate, you know,and maybe innovate.
(30:14):
Right, there's something newthat you might need to do, or a
place you need to go, or peopleyou need to meet.
Maybe you're not in the rightplace for the things that you
want to do in your life.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Exactly, but yeah, and small steps lead to huge
results if you just allow thatthe process to happen, correct.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
So there's a there's an element to a sincere belief.
Like I believe in this process.
I know it works.
You know you can certainlybring your belief into the
interaction with the client.
You know and you can certainlybring your belief into the
(31:04):
interaction with the client, butultimately, their willingness
to do this work and believe thatit works and believe in you
helping them to achieve thatgoal is also part of it.
Right, I don't know if you'veever dealt with skeptics that
have turned some skeptics intobelievers, or do people kind of
come to you and say, all right,I'll do whatever it takes,
change, Help me change.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I've seen everything on that front, Jamie, exactly.
I was a skeptic myself.
And by doing a few balances,with my wife facilitating, and
then I saw change in my life.
I thought, oh, wow, somethingis happening and I wanted to
have more because I have alwaystrusted my own experiences.
And of course, there are peoplein my practice who have been
(31:37):
sent by somebody else, who havedone everything already to
change and they weren't able toSome become believers.
They see that it works, justlike I have seen that.
I have also people who are inmy practice who constantly say
Martijn, this is hocus pocus,how can this be?
(31:57):
How can this be?
I don't understand it, but Isee change in my life.
So I keep coming because I dowant to change my life.
And of course, there is veryobjective people who only
believe in what scientists sayand that something is proven,
and they probably don't end upin my practice at all because
(32:20):
they think that there is onlyone path in life.
And that's fine too.
We all, as we spoke about thispoem of Rumi, we all are
responsible for inviting theguests into our guest house and
we all can do that in the way wewant.
And some people follow thepsyche path, some people follow
(32:41):
other paths, and that's fine.
We are all in control of ourown life.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Right, right, and I guess the thing to remember is
that we actually have the powerto make those decisions and it's
kind of on us to own up to that, like, yes, I made this
decision, I chose this or Ichose not to do that, as opposed
to this happened to me.
You know, I hear and I seevictim mentality all around me,
(33:11):
as if somebody did something toso-and-so, because then that
absolves you of responsibility.
You don't have to do anythingIf somebody did something to you
.
I heard somebody talking aboutviolating parole and he said he
violated me.
And I said no, no, he didn'tviolate you.
(33:35):
You violated your parole andyou got caught.
So he did not violate you.
But the way that he said it heviolated me made it sound like
he'd done absolutely nothing.
And this big bad parole officerviolated him.
But but that kind of thinkingof he violated me is going to
(33:58):
keep this person in thatconstant victim mode and he's
not going to be in a position tochange the things that he says
he wants to change yeah, thatbrings me actually to another
unique element of the psychicprocesses, which is that partner
(34:18):
, the one you work with as afacilitator is always in control
Partner knows what they want tochange and they have the change
inside of them already.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
It is just about extracting the change.
So I never think that I amchanging other people anymore.
In the past, when I was coachingpeople, it always felt like a
heavy burden on my shoulder,like I have to do this and I
have to have a result and I haveto help somebody.
And these days when somebodyenters my practice and they say,
(34:50):
I understand, you can help me,I always tell them well, let's
work on you helping yourself.
And I smile with that becauseI'm like, yeah, that's how we
were raised.
You go to the doctor, thedoctor cures you.
But what if you go to thedoctor for a bit of help so that
you can cure yourself?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Really becoming responsible and accountable for
your own actions in your ownlife right that sounds to me
more powerful and more the lifethat I actually want to live
right.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
right and when we feel empowered and we make those
choices a, we can confront theparts of ourselves that have
been making maybe bad choices ornot so good choices, and as
soon as we can own up to that,like, oh yeah, I made that
choice, I made that choice, or Imade the choice not to do
something or whatever it is,whether it's eating certain
(35:47):
foods or not exercising or, youknow, pursuing a path that isn't
right for you.
Whatever that is, we do have alot of choice.
Now, that isn't to say thatthere are life circumstances
that kind of limit what we cando and where we can go and so on
(36:09):
, but within those boundaries wealways have choices exactly,
exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
And people can get depressed because their
environment is putting stuff ontop on them or because they
can't control the weather, orbecause their balls is ugly to
them, but you always controlyour inner world yes I think
that is what what your storythat you told was about about
(36:39):
the demons and that's also whatthat poem is about it is about
your response.
The whole world can be againstme.
My internal world can be abeautiful one as long as I
believe in myself.
And and I think that is alsoimportant to realize, because if
we realize it's ultimatelyabout our internal world and our
(36:59):
perception of the world aroundus that is when we can really
start to change, and by changingour perceptions and I use
Psyche for that we start tomanifest a different world
around us, maybe just by havinga new look on the world, or
maybe by taking action steps toget away from where we are.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Right, right.
So it's about, you know there'sa saying awareness, acceptance
and action.
So we need to become aware ofwhat's going on, that we want to
change, accept that here'swhat's going on, here's the
thing, and accept ourresponsibility, or accept that
we have the power to change itto some extent, and then taking
(37:47):
the action.
And I just love this.
I love this conversation somuch because you know what we're
going to be playing a song thatyou chose about miracles and,
(38:13):
on some level even though PsycheK could be said to be, you know
, doing the next right thing toachieve the result you want, on
level, it feels like a miracle.
It feels like a miracle becausethe shift can be so profound
yes, it can um I see miraclesall the time so do I, so do I in
myself and in others.
And I think since I became apositive intelligence slash,
(38:34):
emotional intelligence coach, Ihave seen seismic shifts in my
life, and they have come in theform of miracles.
They've come in the form of,you know, kind of living a life
of my wildest dreams.
You know, things I didn't evenknow were possible have come
into my life as a result of myshift in my thinking about who I
(38:59):
am in the world and how I cancontribute to society.
You know, it's easy to complainabout politics, it's easy to
complain about other people,it's easy to complain about your
job, but I think you wouldagree with me that we have the
power to change a lot of thatNow.
I can't change my boss, I can'tchange the building where I
(39:21):
work, I can't change who thepresident of the United States
is or whatever, but I can choosehow to respond within that and
there's always a way to do it ina positive way exactly always.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yes, I fully agree.
So, yeah, can't add anythingthere, jamie, because, um, it's
ultimately all about our ownperception of the world around
us, and about ourselves right.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Right, and so let's just play a snippet of a song by
Sarah McLachlan that you foundfor us, and I'm just going to
pull it up.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
It's just another ordinary miracle.
Today the sky looks well, it'stime to snow.
Don't need to teach a seed togrow.
(40:23):
It's just another ordinarymiracle today.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
So copyright rules prevent me from playing too much
of the song, but the idea isthat if we can live our lives
according to this idea thatevery day can be a miracle, even
little ordinary things, justimagine how much brighter our
outlook would.
Be right, or is?
Speaker 1 (40:56):
our, our outlook would be right or is?
Speaker 3 (40:57):
yes, our life would be much richer much more, much
more at peace as well.
Yes, um, thank you so much forcoming on and sharing about site
k today.
Is there anything, any kind ofparting thoughts you want to
leave us with before we go?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
well, I suppose the only one is is if there's any
listeners or viewers that wantto know more, um, send me a
whatsapp message, give me a call, send me an email.
I love talking about the topicof self-realization by changing
our subconscious mind.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yes, absolutely.
Martijn's information will bein the show notes and, as always
, if you want to learn moreabout emotional intelligence and
positive intelligence coaching,my information is in the show
notes.
I hope this resonated with you.
I hope that you feel like thereis the distinct chance that, if
(41:52):
you want to change your life,you can and we will see you all
at the Emotional IntelligenceGym Exercise that emotional
intelligence muscle.
Please like and subscribe tothis podcast and until next time
, we'll see you later.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Thank you.
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