October 17, 2025 • 34 mins
In this moment when healthcare access feels increasingly precarious, Angelina Drake reminds us that care work is political work, and that our voices matter. A former home care worker who spent a decade working on care justice issues through long-term care policy and advocacy for nursing home and home care workers, Angelina now serves as Chief Development Officer at Protect Our Care, a healthcare policy organization working to lower healthcare costs, increase coverage, and improve health equity in the U.S.
We talk about why care work is systematically undervalued, how the current political moment threatens healthcare access for millions, and what it means to build political will in your own community. Angelina shares how becoming a parent radicalized her understanding of care, why talking to each other is our most powerful tool, and how empathy can fuel—not drain—our advocacy work.
Angelina Drake is a former home care worker who spent a decade working on care justice issues through long-term care policy and advocacy for nursing home and home care workers. In recent years, she focused on direct levers of political change supporting voter engagement, campaign, and other civic action research at the Analyst Institute. Angelina now serves as Chief Development Officer at Protect Our Care, a health care policy and narrative change organization that works to lower health care costs, increase health coverage, and improve health equity in the U.S. I spoke with Angelina about building the political will to improve care at a perilous moment for both health care and civic engagement.
Learn more about Angelina’s work at protectourcare.org
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Episode Transcript
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Lee (00:04):
Welcome back to Empathetic Presence.
I'm your host Lee.
In this moment, a lot of us arethinking about healthcare, how
we care for ourselves and eachother.
I feel so honored to support somany people working within the
healthcare space, people workingin public health, and our guest
(00:26):
today been working in the careeconomy for as long as I have
known her.
Her career has blended careadvocacy and political
engagement.
Angelina Drake.
Chief Development Officer atProtect Our Care, an org
dedicated to expanding andprotecting healthcare access,
(00:47):
affordability, and equity in theus.
Prior to joining Protect OurCare, she served as managing
director of development andstrategy at the Analyst
Institute, a voter engagementand campaign research firm.
Angelina has been a fundraiserand strategist for healthcare
and civic engagement causes formore than 15 years.
(01:09):
A former home care worker,Angelina spent a decade in
nonprofit fundraising andleadership roles in the Care
Justice movement.
I am so excited to talk toAngelina about building a care
society.
This topic is deeply personal toall of us and has perhaps never
been more relevant than thismoment in our society.
(01:31):
Angelina is also one of mylongest time clients, so I'm
really excited to sit down withher and talk about her work, her
voice, and how we can moveforward in building a Care
society.
Welcome Angelina Drake.
Angelina Drake (01:47):
Hello, Lee.
Thank you so much for having me.
Lee (01:50):
Angelina, it's so nice to see you and and just have this
conversation in this moment whenso many of us are having our
healthcare threatened.
so I wanna hear from you a bitabout why you have rooted your
entire career in this idea ofcare.
Angelina Drake (02:10):
Some of my earliest jobs were as a home
care worker, and later as ananny.
I studied public health in.
And after university, I spentover a decade working to create
change in what we call the careeconomy.
My focus has been primarily onhome care workers and nursing
assistants.
This is the largest workforce inthe country.
(02:32):
These are the people who carefor older adults and disabled
people in every community acrossthe country.
And it is some of the mostimportant work that happens in
our society, caring for ourfamily members at large, whether
it's long-term care, childcare,or making sure that, you know,
we as as parents or other familymembers are healthy ourselves.
(02:52):
This is really critical to thefabric of every community across
the country, and yet the work ofproviding care is afforded the
least amount of dignity,especially when it comes to
childcare and long-term care.
And so this is work that'shugely valuable and yet very
difficult and poorlycompensated, and families
(03:13):
struggle to be able to accessaffordable quality care.
So whether we've considered itor not care work is central to
every person's story.
Lee (03:25):
Wow.
I'm just holding on to what yousaid about this work is afforded
the least amount of dignitythinking about this in an
intersectional way.
I know you and I, you and I havetalked about this so much over
the years, how that lack ofdignity is then impacting a lot
of communities that might haveless access to resources can you
(03:47):
talk about why providing carehas been such a huge challenge
in our country.
Angelina Drake (03:57):
This is work that, uh, for a variety of
factors has been relegated tothe informal space.
Often in the home, there's anassumption that there will be
one family member.
Traditionally this has beenwomen or it's been work that's
been done for hire.
Um, or, you know, going backeven further, this was work that
(04:17):
women in slavery were forced todo for other families.
And so it is.
Assumed to take place in thehome.
It's seen as outside of theformal economy, and yet if you
were to remove family care fromour society, the formal economy
would not function.
Right?
And so because this work hasbeen traditionally tied to
(04:39):
women's roles in society, firstand foremost, it's been
undervalued.
And it's work that I think,especially when it comes to work
that has been lessprofessionalized in the care
space.
So that's your home care work,that's your childcare work,
nannies, other domestic labor.
We really still struggle to seethat work as valuable.
(05:01):
And yet when you get close toit, it is absolutely skilled
work.
It's complex, it's emotionallyand physically taxing to do.
And for many, you know,childcare, elder care work is a
profession in which people havecultivated real skill and
experience.
Um.
But we just haven't recognizedthat in the structures that pay
(05:24):
for childcare and long-termcare.
And when you look into why thishappens, you know why it's so
expensive for families to accesscare, and yet it's still a
poverty level job for manyworkers.
You can't avoid politics and therole of public systems in
driving these costs.
Medicaid is the largest payerfor long-term care services.
(05:47):
State and federal regulationsdictate what type of care can be
provided where and by whom forboth children and adults.
And whether care is affordablefor any of us is often dependent
on the presence of publicfunding training programs, you
know, insurance programs, taxdeductions, and other laws and
regulations.
So this work is intenselypersonal, but it is also
(06:10):
political.
Lee (06:11):
course it is.
And this moment in particular,feels like it's.
The culmination of so manydecades of under resourcing this
exact need, and I'm thinkingabout the baby boomers, right?
This tremendously largegeneration that is exceedingly
(06:32):
needing more care, right?
And, and.
I even think about my physicianclients who are focused so much
right now on how we can care forthose who care for us, and
thinking about wellness withinhospitals.
So can you talk about thismoment, and of course we are
recording this during agovernment shutdown.
(06:53):
We are recording this at amoment when I personally just
received a notice that I'mlosing my health insurance, I'm
having trouble scheduling mysurgery like.
This moment feels really scaryangelina.
Angelina Drake (07:06):
It absolutely is.
And your story, Lee, is one thatI have been hearing from so many
people in my life, uh, throughprotect our care through the
work that we're doing there.
Um, this is a really.
Unique and scary moment.
Now, the healthcare system andcertainly long-term care and
childcare have been fragmentedand challenged and imperfect for
(07:28):
decades.
But what we are facing rightnow, going into 2026, is the
enactment of a budget bill thatcuts$1 trillion from Medicaid.
A bill that will make care lessaffordable for families, and
that is already causinghospitals and long-term care
facilities like nursing homes toclose across the country.
These facilities are looking atthat change in rates.
(07:50):
They have to set their budgetswell ahead of time and they're
not able to stay open.
That is affecting access to carefor everyone, whether you rely
on tax credits or any otherpublic marketplace for your
healthcare or not, and then.
We are also right now failing asa country to extend really
(08:11):
critical tax credits that haveallowed people to afford
healthcare through theAffordable Care Act marketplace.
Millions of people will not beable to afford.
The rate increases that arehappening right now, folks like
you are getting those noticesand seeing that their premiums
are going to double or triple,and that's just not sustainable
(08:32):
for working people in thiscountry, and when we will have
fewer people using those plansand able to access care.
That creates costs.
Uninsured people not taking careof their health or relying on
emergency room care, forexample, will affect all of us,
including those of us who arefortunate enough to be on a
(08:53):
private insurance plan.
Those rates are going to go upregardless because of the way
that these systems interrelate.
And so this is an issue thattruly will affect everyone,
especially as we go throughthese next few years, and we are
looking for leadership.
To take action here.
This is not new information forpeople who are in public
(09:15):
service.
They knew this was happening.
Many people voted to make thesethings happen, and so this is a
moment where a lot of us arecalling for political
accountability.
Lee (09:25):
You have such a unique background, Angelina, that fe
feels like you are especiallyprimed uniquely for this moment.
Thinking about your history as adirect care worker, I, I've
known you.
Working as chief of staff inorganizations, you went through
a period of working around voterengagement, and so thinking
(09:46):
about this as a hugelyintersectional issue, you know,
I look on.
Out in my community and there'sbeen massive housing
displacement leading to peoplethen losing their health
insurance.
And oftentimes this is allculminated around health
challenges specifically, right?
And people not being able to getthe medical care they need.
(10:06):
People being bankrupted by ourhealthcare system.
And so you have such a uniqueperspective here, thinking about
a macro level of how we canactually.
Change this.
And what do you think we need asa society on that macro level?
Angelina Drake (10:26):
This is a big question.
Uh, on a macro level, we needpublic investment in care.
Uh, the private sector has notproven itself in this field
unless you are talking aboutprivate care services.
That serve only the richestamong us.
We've made calculations as asociety that we will invest in
things that benefit everyone.
(10:46):
Uh, while you know, I'm adaughter of a public school
teacher, I'm aware of the flawsin the US education system.
That system exists and it isthere for us from approximately
ages four to 18.
We don't have a comparablesystem to take care of people
through the, the other parts ofthe lifespan, especially for.
(11:07):
End of life aging and disabilitycare, and this is why you see
that care work.
You know, the profound benefitsof it, the agonizing challenges
of finding and paying for it,and the toll and rewards of of
being a, a care provider.
These are really underacknowledged, but they are
universal experiences and Ibelieve a very politically
(11:29):
powerful undercurrent insociety.
We are not.
Traditionally comfortable as aculture talking about aging,
illness, disability, disease,you know, death, right?
We, we think it's our fault andthat we uniquely face these
challenges, and that'spotentially by design.
That care has been privatized inthat way.
(11:51):
And yet we all need care.
And the challenges we aretalking about right now are
shared by people at almost everylevel of the income scale when
it comes to long-term care.
For example, uh, many people whowould consider themselves well
off or, or upper, upper middleclass, you know, cannot afford
or will have their generationalwealth spent down just trying to
(12:14):
care for their aging familymembers and their parents.
This is really an issue thatgoes up and down.
Income scale, and I see a lot ofpotential in that.
I think care, if we talk aboutit, if we open up this
conversation in ways that arestarting to happen, could be
this very powerful undercurrentto mobilize the electorate and
(12:36):
to get folks to think about whatkind of practical political
change they want.
It's an everyday economic issue.
Uh, protect our care.
We say it's a kitchen tableissue that.
Takes over the kitchen table.
Uh, so I think we all have astake in this work.
Lee (12:52):
A hundred percent.
And even what you said about howmuch this work is under
acknowledged and that we allneed this care, it makes me
think about these biggersocietal issues that make us not
talk about death and not.
Acknowledge the fact that a lotof us will be disabled within
our lifetime.
Right?
This is really a spectrum.
(13:14):
It's not really if it's when,and even my mom has terminal
cancer and she's been meetingwith a death doula, and it's
really interesting, like what isit about our society that makes
it hard to talk about thesetopics?
Do you think?
Angelina Drake (13:32):
Some of this we are, we just absorb norms in our
culture, and, and there arecultures that have, uh, more
practice bringing agingrelevance into the home.
Making it clear to everyone ofevery generation what challenges
come with that work, uh, if itcan vary per culture.
(13:53):
Some of these questions areabsolutely existential and have
to deal with our own mortality.
They're, they're big, difficultquestions.
And I really wanna give folks,um, a break here.
You know, if they're notcomfortable talking about these
topics, because they can beextremely challenging.
Yet once you find a space whereyou can talk about family care
(14:16):
challenges?
In my experience, it's hugelyliberating.
You hear how common thesechallenges are when you talk to
workers, especially those who dosome of the most poorly
compensated care work in ourculture.
Again, childcare and elder careworkers primarily, they.
(14:37):
Respond, um, in such profoundways to being asked about their
story, to, to having this workacknowledged.
And it's a real feature of howunder acknowledged it is that we
don't have those stories liftedup.
And, and I would say it's verysimilar for folks who struggle
with.
Chronic disease or are just, um,older and feel like they're not
(14:58):
acknowledged in society, they'renot asked to tell these stories.
And the more we're creatingspaces where stories can be
told, a lot of what we do atProtect our Care is elevate
storytellers.
These are everyday people whotalk about the role of health
coverage and affordability intheir lives and how that shapes
their opportunities.
(15:18):
We make sure that.
They are speaking to electedofficials, that they are covered
in news media and nationalnarratives about this work and
that this conversation is notone that stays at a theoretical
level or stays with the peoplewho have the most power.
Lee (15:36):
Yeah, even what you're talking about of, you know, with
people losing access to healthinsurance, they are going to be
less likely to preventativecare.
They're maybe not going toschedule that doctor's
appointment they need or thatsurgery that they know they need
to have.
And I can, I can't stop.
Seeing the ripple effects ofthis Angelina and even a
(15:59):
generation down the line, that'swhat scares me is the impact
systemically of us not caringfor ourselves.
And I, I'm really.
An agitator.
I think when it comes to thisquestion of, you know, do we
burn it down or do we try torebuild it?
How do we build political will?
(16:21):
How do we work with the currentsystem?
How broken it is, you know,where do we move forward?
What's the levers that we canpull in this moment?
Angelina Drake (16:33):
Building political will is exactly it.
This is where I have focused mywork and my career personally.
In 2022, a lot shifted for me.
This was the year of the SupremeCourt's Dobbs decision
overturning Roe v.
Wade, that removed vitalprotections and my, you know,
rights that I had to my ownbodily autonomy.
(16:55):
And these are rights I'd knownmy entire lifetime.
And it really made me thinkabout how fragile our choice
whether we want to be caregiversis.
And this 2022 was also the yearthat the Uvalde shootings
happened.
Underscoring the horrificrealities that, and fear that so
many parents face raisingchildren in an era of senseless
(17:17):
and unaddressed gun violence.
And then I also had theradicalizing experience of being
pregnant and giving birth thatyear.
And I did so like everyone doesin in an economic system.
And.
For some of us, an employmentenvironment that is not at all
set up for the realities thatpregnant folks and parents go
through every day.
(17:38):
And also that year, the careagenda, which heading was a
culmination of many years ofadvocacy by the Care Justice
Movement, and it was an agendathat was originally built into
the build back betterlegislation that would provide
improved funding, uh, for bothworkers and families to approve.
(17:59):
To access childcare andlong-term care.
This care agenda was removedfrom the build back, better
legislation before it passed asthe result of one member of
Congress whose vote this packageneeded one elected official.
And so it became piercinglyclear to me that.
We could continue to talk aboutthe value of care and produce
(18:22):
plenty of content and what itwould look like to recognize
that value in our society.
But if we don't have electedofficials today who understand
care and are willing to careabout care and make decisions to
improve healthcare,affordability, and options for
their constituents.
Nothing is going to get better.
(18:43):
So I personally becameincreasingly motivated to impact
more direct levers of politicalchange.
It's when I joined the AnalystInstitute, which is a, an
infrastructure organization thatprovides research and evidence
best.
Evidence backed best practicesthat fuel the efforts of
thousands of people who work toeducate and engage voters or win
(19:05):
political campaigns.
And so I got really deeplyengaged in this question of, you
know, what good is all thisknowledge and opinions that we
have of, if it's not actuallyreaching folks on the ground who
can create political change andbuild the will to make sure that
we are electing folks who.
Care about the issues thatimpact our lives.
(19:27):
And so it, it became clear tome, I would say, especially in
the last few years, that we needto focus on the electorate and
take the electorate seriously.
This is what democracy requires,is that we are able to
understand what it takes tobuild political will in this
(19:48):
country and.
Make sure that we are buildingpolitical power, and I believe
in doing that through the means,through which power is being
wielded or taking away frompeople right now, which is the
systems we have.
This is the role of elections,but also the role of organizing,
(20:09):
leadership development, um,other work that is primarily
people talking to each other.
In real life, going out thereand taking action, uh, and not
dismissing acts like voting ortalking to their legislators or
banding together to help, um,pressure elected officials.
Not dismissing that because thelarger system is flawed, which
(20:31):
it absolutely is for so manymillions of Americans and.
I would love for us all to takemore seriously the act of
building political will and thepolitical will to care for each
other.
Lee (20:46):
It's really that one elected official really, that
that really blows my mind oneperson, and that is the result
of our system just being sobroken and.
It's also this, I can hear itAngelina, in your voice.
I feel it too.
When it impacts our, our bodilyautonomy, right?
(21:10):
Our literal healthcare, ourchildren's healthcare.
It, ignites a rage in me evenright before we got on this
call, I spent the morning on thephone with my insurer and trying
to schedule a surgery that Ineed it.
This rage around our safety andour care.
(21:35):
I think that contributes to howhard it is for us to build this
political will and find thesecommon grounds.
Right?
There's a real fear and it makesit hard to think rationally.
Angelina Drake (21:51):
I think that's very fair and uh, that.
Is what has motivated manypeople and, and those emotions
have also caused some folks toopt out, right?
We, we feel overwhelmed in thesesystems and having to separate
what you personally need, youknow, from.
The long work of creating changeand, and I think if you talk to
(22:14):
anyone who does advocacy work,political work, um, any of this
professionally or in asignificant volunteer capacity,
you know, they will tell youthat this is the work of
compromise.
You know, we are approachingsystems, we are trying to create
influence.
We have to create.
Partnerships and coalitions andwork with people who may be with
(22:37):
us on one issue, but not on allof the issues.
And when you get to the point ofactually getting legislation
built or getting enough peopleto vote for something you, you
support, it is often the work ofcompromise and, and it can be
slow work and.
It's a really different pace andset of emotions that are drawn
(23:01):
on from the moment when youcan't get the care you need.
And the moment we are seeinginjustice happen, and those are
such big and important feelings,and I think the challenge is to
blend that, to motivate us to dothat work that it takes to build
political will and buildpolitical power over time.
Lee (23:22):
Yeah, it's really personal and I think that that's why it's
so important and also whyhealthcare perhaps shouldn't be
a business, right?
And we should find differentways of supporting our society
outside of.
An attachment to capitalism andso much of this.
me of our time working togethertoo.
(23:44):
And Angelina, you're one of mylongest time clients and it is
so just thrilling to hear youspeak about your life's work.
And you sound so confident andso crisp and clear, and it feels
like this role is the realculmination of so much of your
life's work.
Can you talk.
(24:06):
How you feel about speaking andyour voice because you, you just
speak so beautifully andpowerfully.
Angelina Drake (24:15):
Thank you for saying that, Lee.
It, it really means a lot.
From you especially, and Ivalued the relationship that
we've had, all the support youprovided to me and I've also
sent you to friends and family'cause I, um, believe so much in
what you do and I've soappreciated the chance to.
(24:39):
Work on the skillset of, of howdo you communicate about
yourself, about the issues thatyou care about?
Maybe it's about the work thatyou do and making sure that you
are heard and making sure thatyou can understand how we are
received.
Speaking as people who have notmaybe traditionally been the
(24:59):
folks to speak in society overtime.
Um, especially for a lot ofwomen.
And, and I see this in thegroups who bring together how
common these experiences are ofhaving, um, unfair reactions to
how we look or sound or the factthat we have opinions and hold
them, or we are showingconfidence and, uh, a word like.
(25:20):
Passion for what we do.
This word that can be turnedinto pejorative and used against
primarily, you know, women andnon-binary folks in society.
Um, you are, your support hasbeen so helpful in.
Recognizing those forces andempowering people to speak to
who they are, um, what they knowto be true about themselves, but
(25:44):
also how to move through a worldthat you are realistic about.
You know, is, is a world that isset up to silence a lot of those
voices and how can we connectpeople?
I mean, I think power is largelybuilt through story.
Letting people tell their storyis so critical.
I think data is really importantas well.
(26:05):
I usually say story and datatogether have have led to the
accumulation of power indifferent areas of society.
And when you are providing thosetools to folks like us to be
able to do what we can tocontribute story, to understand
how we improve and communicatingour passion, our message, our
vision over time.
(26:26):
Um.
It's power building of adifferent sort, and I'm so
grateful to have been on thereceiving side of that with you.
Lee (26:34):
I love that Angelina, and when I think about an empathetic
leader, and that's really thepeople I love supporting my.
Most, I think of you and empathyhas been a part of your work and
at the front of your work for aslong as I've known you and.
I talk often about how empathycan be really weaponized against
(26:56):
people in toxic environments andin a lot of our culture, and you
have really just channeled yourempathy and used it as a leader.
And also in thinking about youradvocacy work and now the way
that you engage donors.
And I'd love to hear.
Has empathy been conscious foryou?
(27:18):
Do you think about that as apart of your strengths?
Angelina Drake (27:22):
I see political work as a way to reduce net
suffering in society.
And so at the base of that isabsolutely, it's empathy.
It's it's wanting to care forothers.
It's appreciating how you'vebeen cared for or understanding
where you haven't been cared forand wanting folks to have.
The most positive experiencesthat they can as they go through
(27:44):
this life.
Um, and I think political power,you know, is necessary to reduce
harm and create good pointblank.
And when we see that and we, andwe frame things that way,
there's a real opportunity tobring empathy into it.
And a democracy power requirespublic support.
And so I, I've, I think I'verecognized this most when I
(28:06):
realized we were.
Losing empathy in the ways thatwe communicate with each other
if we are impersonal.
Communicating primarily throughdigital means.
I think we've all seen in socialmedia how empathy can get lost
and how true connection.
Is not always at the center,especially of political
(28:27):
conversations that happen onthose platforms.
Um, I'm about a year away fromsocial media platforms myself,
and it's been pretty powerful tosee that difference and see.
On one level, just getting mybrain back how much I've been
able to do, but also thedifference when you need to rely
on more personal connected formsof communication.
(28:49):
And when we're talking aboutcare work, I mean, empathy is
absolutely at the center ofthat.
And I think, you know, hair.
Is an opportunity to connect usto other people.
It's an economic and a socialstory.
We know that care costs can becrushing for families.
(29:11):
The jobs can be really difficultand hard to stay in, and yet.
Care is also the stuff of life.
It's where we make profoundconnections to others.
On a personal level, I, I thinkit's the most direct act of
change you can take to improvesomeone's day is to care for
them.
And when we're able to changethe circumstances in which care
(29:31):
takes place, right?
When we have affordable,accessible, and good quality
care in our society, we're impimproving the futures of
everyone around us.
And it's an empathetic actultimately.
Lee (29:45):
It is the most important thing that we can focus.
Son right now, and I'm sograteful for the work that you
do.
I'm so grateful for your exactexpertise, Angelina, because
your expertise is what we needright now.
We need to be buildingcollective care.
We need to be building communitycare, and I love thinking about
(30:09):
that through the lens ofpolitical will and power.
Angelina, we've talked aboutthese big macro forces and it
can all get really existential,and at the end of the day, we
are individuals in ourcommunities who are having to
face everyday realities.
And so what can we do on thedaily to support ourselves, to
(30:32):
support our communities, and tobuild a care economy?
Angelina Drake (30:36):
So I think if you're seeking change.
For a policy, maybe this is lawsand this is what gets funded for
a candidate or party for whogets represented in our
politics.
It's really important to respectand respond to.
The electorate to understand whoelse you know needs to get
(30:57):
involved.
Politics is a game of addition,and so I think one of the most
important things we can do istalk to other people about the
issues that are driving us andabout specific ways we might
want to make change andapproaching those conversations
in as inclusive a way aspossible.
I think care is, in myexperience, a fantastic way to
(31:20):
connect with.
All people of all backgrounds,beliefs and experiences.
You know, if we are all lucky tolive long lives, we will need
care at some point in time.
Most of us have had tocoordinate it for another family
member at minimum.
Talking about those experiencesis really critical and I would
love if we are also normalizingthe.
(31:44):
Act of taking advantage of thethe levers of power we do have.
So talk to people if you'regoing to vote in a local
election, talk to them.
If you're going to vote in anational election.
Talk about how you arecommunicating with your elected
representatives about theseissues.
Talk about how you're providinga space of community for people
(32:05):
to share some of theirfrustrations with the challenges
that they are going through.
Look for the folks who arelifting messages up and join
them.
As much as these conversationscan happen in person and within
your sphere of influence, peoplerespond best to messages from
folks they trust and know.
(32:26):
And I think the more personal wecan make these conversations,
the better and.
I would just say to do what youcan on the daily to positively
normalize the act of acts oftaking action, right?
Making sure that we are, uh, notfostering cynicism or allowing
folks to dismiss the entiresystem because of the challenges
(32:49):
we're all facing, which is so.
Rooted in, in values that Ireally do understand.
Um, but we also need to makesure we're looking out for one
another.
And sometimes that's taking 15minutes an hour depending on
where you live to vote in alocal election, uh, to meet up
with some people and talk aboutwhat they're facing, to look
(33:10):
around and see who else isspeaking up for your issues in
your community.
Lee (33:14):
It's so important what you're saying of just talking to
each other, Angelina, and Itotally agree because here in my
community I'm hearing a lot of.
Fears of apathy anddisengagement and shutting down,
frankly, because of theoverwhelm.
And so that feels like anamazing note to end on of
(33:37):
talking to each other, beingable to activate our voices in
caring for ourselves and eachother.
So Angelina, I'm so grateful foryour work.
I'm so grateful for thisconversation.
Thank you so much for having itand for taking the time.
Angelina Drake (33:55):
Thank you, Lee.
Lee (33:56):
To learn more about Angelina's work, you can visit
protect our care.org.
Welcome back to Empathetic Presence.
I'm your host Lee.
In this moment, a lot of us arethinking about healthcare, how
we care for ourselves and eachother.
I feel so honored to support somany people working within the
healthcare space, people workingin public health, and our guest
(00:26):
today been working in the careeconomy for as long as I have
known her.
Her career has blended careadvocacy and political
engagement.
Angelina Drake.
Chief Development Officer atProtect Our Care, an org
dedicated to expanding andprotecting healthcare access,
(00:47):
affordability, and equity in theus.
Prior to joining Protect OurCare, she served as managing
director of development andstrategy at the Analyst
Institute, a voter engagementand campaign research firm.
Angelina has been a fundraiserand strategist for healthcare
and civic engagement causes formore than 15 years.
(01:09):
A former home care worker,Angelina spent a decade in
nonprofit fundraising andleadership roles in the Care
Justice movement.
I am so excited to talk toAngelina about building a care
society.
This topic is deeply personal toall of us and has perhaps never
been more relevant than thismoment in our society.
(01:31):
Angelina is also one of mylongest time clients, so I'm
really excited to sit down withher and talk about her work, her
voice, and how we can moveforward in building a Care
society.
Welcome Angelina Drake.
Angelina Drake (01:47):
Hello, Lee.
Thank you so much for having me.
Lee (01:50):
Angelina, it's so nice to see you and and just have this
conversation in this moment whenso many of us are having our
healthcare threatened.
so I wanna hear from you a bitabout why you have rooted your
entire career in this idea ofcare.
Angelina Drake (02:10):
Some of my earliest jobs were as a home
care worker, and later as ananny.
I studied public health in.
And after university, I spentover a decade working to create
change in what we call the careeconomy.
My focus has been primarily onhome care workers and nursing
assistants.
This is the largest workforce inthe country.
(02:32):
These are the people who carefor older adults and disabled
people in every community acrossthe country.
And it is some of the mostimportant work that happens in
our society, caring for ourfamily members at large, whether
it's long-term care, childcare,or making sure that, you know,
we as as parents or other familymembers are healthy ourselves.
(02:52):
This is really critical to thefabric of every community across
the country, and yet the work ofproviding care is afforded the
least amount of dignity,especially when it comes to
childcare and long-term care.
And so this is work that'shugely valuable and yet very
difficult and poorlycompensated, and families
(03:13):
struggle to be able to accessaffordable quality care.
So whether we've considered itor not care work is central to
every person's story.
Lee (03:25):
Wow.
I'm just holding on to what yousaid about this work is afforded
the least amount of dignitythinking about this in an
intersectional way.
I know you and I, you and I havetalked about this so much over
the years, how that lack ofdignity is then impacting a lot
of communities that might haveless access to resources can you
(03:47):
talk about why providing carehas been such a huge challenge
in our country.
Angelina Drake (03:57):
This is work that, uh, for a variety of
factors has been relegated tothe informal space.
Often in the home, there's anassumption that there will be
one family member.
Traditionally this has beenwomen or it's been work that's
been done for hire.
Um, or, you know, going backeven further, this was work that
(04:17):
women in slavery were forced todo for other families.
And so it is.
Assumed to take place in thehome.
It's seen as outside of theformal economy, and yet if you
were to remove family care fromour society, the formal economy
would not function.
Right?
And so because this work hasbeen traditionally tied to
(04:39):
women's roles in society, firstand foremost, it's been
undervalued.
And it's work that I think,especially when it comes to work
that has been lessprofessionalized in the care
space.
So that's your home care work,that's your childcare work,
nannies, other domestic labor.
We really still struggle to seethat work as valuable.
(05:01):
And yet when you get close toit, it is absolutely skilled
work.
It's complex, it's emotionallyand physically taxing to do.
And for many, you know,childcare, elder care work is a
profession in which people havecultivated real skill and
experience.
Um.
But we just haven't recognizedthat in the structures that pay
(05:24):
for childcare and long-termcare.
And when you look into why thishappens, you know why it's so
expensive for families to accesscare, and yet it's still a
poverty level job for manyworkers.
You can't avoid politics and therole of public systems in
driving these costs.
Medicaid is the largest payerfor long-term care services.
(05:47):
State and federal regulationsdictate what type of care can be
provided where and by whom forboth children and adults.
And whether care is affordablefor any of us is often dependent
on the presence of publicfunding training programs, you
know, insurance programs, taxdeductions, and other laws and
regulations.
So this work is intenselypersonal, but it is also
(06:10):
political.
Lee (06:11):
course it is.
And this moment in particular,feels like it's.
The culmination of so manydecades of under resourcing this
exact need, and I'm thinkingabout the baby boomers, right?
This tremendously largegeneration that is exceedingly
(06:32):
needing more care, right?
And, and.
I even think about my physicianclients who are focused so much
right now on how we can care forthose who care for us, and
thinking about wellness withinhospitals.
So can you talk about thismoment, and of course we are
recording this during agovernment shutdown.
(06:53):
We are recording this at amoment when I personally just
received a notice that I'mlosing my health insurance, I'm
having trouble scheduling mysurgery like.
This moment feels really scaryangelina.
Angelina Drake (07:06):
It absolutely is.
And your story, Lee, is one thatI have been hearing from so many
people in my life, uh, throughprotect our care through the
work that we're doing there.
Um, this is a really.
Unique and scary moment.
Now, the healthcare system andcertainly long-term care and
childcare have been fragmentedand challenged and imperfect for
(07:28):
decades.
But what we are facing rightnow, going into 2026, is the
enactment of a budget bill thatcuts$1 trillion from Medicaid.
A bill that will make care lessaffordable for families, and
that is already causinghospitals and long-term care
facilities like nursing homes toclose across the country.
These facilities are looking atthat change in rates.
(07:50):
They have to set their budgetswell ahead of time and they're
not able to stay open.
That is affecting access to carefor everyone, whether you rely
on tax credits or any otherpublic marketplace for your
healthcare or not, and then.
We are also right now failing asa country to extend really
(08:11):
critical tax credits that haveallowed people to afford
healthcare through theAffordable Care Act marketplace.
Millions of people will not beable to afford.
The rate increases that arehappening right now, folks like
you are getting those noticesand seeing that their premiums
are going to double or triple,and that's just not sustainable
(08:32):
for working people in thiscountry, and when we will have
fewer people using those plansand able to access care.
That creates costs.
Uninsured people not taking careof their health or relying on
emergency room care, forexample, will affect all of us,
including those of us who arefortunate enough to be on a
(08:53):
private insurance plan.
Those rates are going to go upregardless because of the way
that these systems interrelate.
And so this is an issue thattruly will affect everyone,
especially as we go throughthese next few years, and we are
looking for leadership.
To take action here.
This is not new information forpeople who are in public
(09:15):
service.
They knew this was happening.
Many people voted to make thesethings happen, and so this is a
moment where a lot of us arecalling for political
accountability.
Lee (09:25):
You have such a unique background, Angelina, that fe
feels like you are especiallyprimed uniquely for this moment.
Thinking about your history as adirect care worker, I, I've
known you.
Working as chief of staff inorganizations, you went through
a period of working around voterengagement, and so thinking
(09:46):
about this as a hugelyintersectional issue, you know,
I look on.
Out in my community and there'sbeen massive housing
displacement leading to peoplethen losing their health
insurance.
And oftentimes this is allculminated around health
challenges specifically, right?
And people not being able to getthe medical care they need.
(10:06):
People being bankrupted by ourhealthcare system.
And so you have such a uniqueperspective here, thinking about
a macro level of how we canactually.
Change this.
And what do you think we need asa society on that macro level?
Angelina Drake (10:26):
This is a big question.
Uh, on a macro level, we needpublic investment in care.
Uh, the private sector has notproven itself in this field
unless you are talking aboutprivate care services.
That serve only the richestamong us.
We've made calculations as asociety that we will invest in
things that benefit everyone.
(10:46):
Uh, while you know, I'm adaughter of a public school
teacher, I'm aware of the flawsin the US education system.
That system exists and it isthere for us from approximately
ages four to 18.
We don't have a comparablesystem to take care of people
through the, the other parts ofthe lifespan, especially for.
(11:07):
End of life aging and disabilitycare, and this is why you see
that care work.
You know, the profound benefitsof it, the agonizing challenges
of finding and paying for it,and the toll and rewards of of
being a, a care provider.
These are really underacknowledged, but they are
universal experiences and Ibelieve a very politically
(11:29):
powerful undercurrent insociety.
We are not.
Traditionally comfortable as aculture talking about aging,
illness, disability, disease,you know, death, right?
We, we think it's our fault andthat we uniquely face these
challenges, and that'spotentially by design.
That care has been privatized inthat way.
(11:51):
And yet we all need care.
And the challenges we aretalking about right now are
shared by people at almost everylevel of the income scale when
it comes to long-term care.
For example, uh, many people whowould consider themselves well
off or, or upper, upper middleclass, you know, cannot afford
or will have their generationalwealth spent down just trying to
(12:14):
care for their aging familymembers and their parents.
This is really an issue thatgoes up and down.
Income scale, and I see a lot ofpotential in that.
I think care, if we talk aboutit, if we open up this
conversation in ways that arestarting to happen, could be
this very powerful undercurrentto mobilize the electorate and
(12:36):
to get folks to think about whatkind of practical political
change they want.
It's an everyday economic issue.
Uh, protect our care.
We say it's a kitchen tableissue that.
Takes over the kitchen table.
Uh, so I think we all have astake in this work.
Lee (12:52):
A hundred percent.
And even what you said about howmuch this work is under
acknowledged and that we allneed this care, it makes me
think about these biggersocietal issues that make us not
talk about death and not.
Acknowledge the fact that a lotof us will be disabled within
our lifetime.
Right?
This is really a spectrum.
(13:14):
It's not really if it's when,and even my mom has terminal
cancer and she's been meetingwith a death doula, and it's
really interesting, like what isit about our society that makes
it hard to talk about thesetopics?
Do you think?
Angelina Drake (13:32):
Some of this we are, we just absorb norms in our
culture, and, and there arecultures that have, uh, more
practice bringing agingrelevance into the home.
Making it clear to everyone ofevery generation what challenges
come with that work, uh, if itcan vary per culture.
(13:53):
Some of these questions areabsolutely existential and have
to deal with our own mortality.
They're, they're big, difficultquestions.
And I really wanna give folks,um, a break here.
You know, if they're notcomfortable talking about these
topics, because they can beextremely challenging.
Yet once you find a space whereyou can talk about family care
(14:16):
challenges?
In my experience, it's hugelyliberating.
You hear how common thesechallenges are when you talk to
workers, especially those who dosome of the most poorly
compensated care work in ourculture.
Again, childcare and elder careworkers primarily, they.
(14:37):
Respond, um, in such profoundways to being asked about their
story, to, to having this workacknowledged.
And it's a real feature of howunder acknowledged it is that we
don't have those stories liftedup.
And, and I would say it's verysimilar for folks who struggle
with.
Chronic disease or are just, um,older and feel like they're not
(14:58):
acknowledged in society, they'renot asked to tell these stories.
And the more we're creatingspaces where stories can be
told, a lot of what we do atProtect our Care is elevate
storytellers.
These are everyday people whotalk about the role of health
coverage and affordability intheir lives and how that shapes
their opportunities.
(15:18):
We make sure that.
They are speaking to electedofficials, that they are covered
in news media and nationalnarratives about this work and
that this conversation is notone that stays at a theoretical
level or stays with the peoplewho have the most power.
Lee (15:36):
Yeah, even what you're talking about of, you know, with
people losing access to healthinsurance, they are going to be
less likely to preventativecare.
They're maybe not going toschedule that doctor's
appointment they need or thatsurgery that they know they need
to have.
And I can, I can't stop.
Seeing the ripple effects ofthis Angelina and even a
(15:59):
generation down the line, that'swhat scares me is the impact
systemically of us not caringfor ourselves.
And I, I'm really.
An agitator.
I think when it comes to thisquestion of, you know, do we
burn it down or do we try torebuild it?
How do we build political will?
(16:21):
How do we work with the currentsystem?
How broken it is, you know,where do we move forward?
What's the levers that we canpull in this moment?
Angelina Drake (16:33):
Building political will is exactly it.
This is where I have focused mywork and my career personally.
In 2022, a lot shifted for me.
This was the year of the SupremeCourt's Dobbs decision
overturning Roe v.
Wade, that removed vitalprotections and my, you know,
rights that I had to my ownbodily autonomy.
(16:55):
And these are rights I'd knownmy entire lifetime.
And it really made me thinkabout how fragile our choice
whether we want to be caregiversis.
And this 2022 was also the yearthat the Uvalde shootings
happened.
Underscoring the horrificrealities that, and fear that so
many parents face raisingchildren in an era of senseless
(17:17):
and unaddressed gun violence.
And then I also had theradicalizing experience of being
pregnant and giving birth thatyear.
And I did so like everyone doesin in an economic system.
And.
For some of us, an employmentenvironment that is not at all
set up for the realities thatpregnant folks and parents go
through every day.
(17:38):
And also that year, the careagenda, which heading was a
culmination of many years ofadvocacy by the Care Justice
Movement, and it was an agendathat was originally built into
the build back betterlegislation that would provide
improved funding, uh, for bothworkers and families to approve.
(17:59):
To access childcare andlong-term care.
This care agenda was removedfrom the build back, better
legislation before it passed asthe result of one member of
Congress whose vote this packageneeded one elected official.
And so it became piercinglyclear to me that.
We could continue to talk aboutthe value of care and produce
(18:22):
plenty of content and what itwould look like to recognize
that value in our society.
But if we don't have electedofficials today who understand
care and are willing to careabout care and make decisions to
improve healthcare,affordability, and options for
their constituents.
Nothing is going to get better.
(18:43):
So I personally becameincreasingly motivated to impact
more direct levers of politicalchange.
It's when I joined the AnalystInstitute, which is a, an
infrastructure organization thatprovides research and evidence
best.
Evidence backed best practicesthat fuel the efforts of
thousands of people who work toeducate and engage voters or win
(19:05):
political campaigns.
And so I got really deeplyengaged in this question of, you
know, what good is all thisknowledge and opinions that we
have of, if it's not actuallyreaching folks on the ground who
can create political change andbuild the will to make sure that
we are electing folks who.
Care about the issues thatimpact our lives.
(19:27):
And so it, it became clear tome, I would say, especially in
the last few years, that we needto focus on the electorate and
take the electorate seriously.
This is what democracy requires,is that we are able to
understand what it takes tobuild political will in this
(19:48):
country and.
Make sure that we are buildingpolitical power, and I believe
in doing that through the means,through which power is being
wielded or taking away frompeople right now, which is the
systems we have.
This is the role of elections,but also the role of organizing,
(20:09):
leadership development, um,other work that is primarily
people talking to each other.
In real life, going out thereand taking action, uh, and not
dismissing acts like voting ortalking to their legislators or
banding together to help, um,pressure elected officials.
Not dismissing that because thelarger system is flawed, which
(20:31):
it absolutely is for so manymillions of Americans and.
I would love for us all to takemore seriously the act of
building political will and thepolitical will to care for each
other.
Lee (20:46):
It's really that one elected official really, that
that really blows my mind oneperson, and that is the result
of our system just being sobroken and.
It's also this, I can hear itAngelina, in your voice.
I feel it too.
When it impacts our, our bodilyautonomy, right?
(21:10):
Our literal healthcare, ourchildren's healthcare.
It, ignites a rage in me evenright before we got on this
call, I spent the morning on thephone with my insurer and trying
to schedule a surgery that Ineed it.
This rage around our safety andour care.
(21:35):
I think that contributes to howhard it is for us to build this
political will and find thesecommon grounds.
Right?
There's a real fear and it makesit hard to think rationally.
Angelina Drake (21:51):
I think that's very fair and uh, that.
Is what has motivated manypeople and, and those emotions
have also caused some folks toopt out, right?
We, we feel overwhelmed in thesesystems and having to separate
what you personally need, youknow, from.
The long work of creating changeand, and I think if you talk to
(22:14):
anyone who does advocacy work,political work, um, any of this
professionally or in asignificant volunteer capacity,
you know, they will tell youthat this is the work of
compromise.
You know, we are approachingsystems, we are trying to create
influence.
We have to create.
Partnerships and coalitions andwork with people who may be with
(22:37):
us on one issue, but not on allof the issues.
And when you get to the point ofactually getting legislation
built or getting enough peopleto vote for something you, you
support, it is often the work ofcompromise and, and it can be
slow work and.
It's a really different pace andset of emotions that are drawn
(23:01):
on from the moment when youcan't get the care you need.
And the moment we are seeinginjustice happen, and those are
such big and important feelings,and I think the challenge is to
blend that, to motivate us to dothat work that it takes to build
political will and buildpolitical power over time.
Lee (23:22):
Yeah, it's really personal and I think that that's why it's
so important and also whyhealthcare perhaps shouldn't be
a business, right?
And we should find differentways of supporting our society
outside of.
An attachment to capitalism andso much of this.
me of our time working togethertoo.
(23:44):
And Angelina, you're one of mylongest time clients and it is
so just thrilling to hear youspeak about your life's work.
And you sound so confident andso crisp and clear, and it feels
like this role is the realculmination of so much of your
life's work.
Can you talk.
(24:06):
How you feel about speaking andyour voice because you, you just
speak so beautifully andpowerfully.
Angelina Drake (24:15):
Thank you for saying that, Lee.
It, it really means a lot.
From you especially, and Ivalued the relationship that
we've had, all the support youprovided to me and I've also
sent you to friends and family'cause I, um, believe so much in
what you do and I've soappreciated the chance to.
(24:39):
Work on the skillset of, of howdo you communicate about
yourself, about the issues thatyou care about?
Maybe it's about the work thatyou do and making sure that you
are heard and making sure thatyou can understand how we are
received.
Speaking as people who have notmaybe traditionally been the
(24:59):
folks to speak in society overtime.
Um, especially for a lot ofwomen.
And, and I see this in thegroups who bring together how
common these experiences are ofhaving, um, unfair reactions to
how we look or sound or the factthat we have opinions and hold
them, or we are showingconfidence and, uh, a word like.
(25:20):
Passion for what we do.
This word that can be turnedinto pejorative and used against
primarily, you know, women andnon-binary folks in society.
Um, you are, your support hasbeen so helpful in.
Recognizing those forces andempowering people to speak to
who they are, um, what they knowto be true about themselves, but
(25:44):
also how to move through a worldthat you are realistic about.
You know, is, is a world that isset up to silence a lot of those
voices and how can we connectpeople?
I mean, I think power is largelybuilt through story.
Letting people tell their storyis so critical.
I think data is really importantas well.
(26:05):
I usually say story and datatogether have have led to the
accumulation of power indifferent areas of society.
And when you are providing thosetools to folks like us to be
able to do what we can tocontribute story, to understand
how we improve and communicatingour passion, our message, our
vision over time.
(26:26):
Um.
It's power building of adifferent sort, and I'm so
grateful to have been on thereceiving side of that with you.
Lee (26:34):
I love that Angelina, and when I think about an empathetic
leader, and that's really thepeople I love supporting my.
Most, I think of you and empathyhas been a part of your work and
at the front of your work for aslong as I've known you and.
I talk often about how empathycan be really weaponized against
(26:56):
people in toxic environments andin a lot of our culture, and you
have really just channeled yourempathy and used it as a leader.
And also in thinking about youradvocacy work and now the way
that you engage donors.
And I'd love to hear.
Has empathy been conscious foryou?
(27:18):
Do you think about that as apart of your strengths?
Angelina Drake (27:22):
I see political work as a way to reduce net
suffering in society.
And so at the base of that isabsolutely, it's empathy.
It's it's wanting to care forothers.
It's appreciating how you'vebeen cared for or understanding
where you haven't been cared forand wanting folks to have.
The most positive experiencesthat they can as they go through
(27:44):
this life.
Um, and I think political power,you know, is necessary to reduce
harm and create good pointblank.
And when we see that and we, andwe frame things that way,
there's a real opportunity tobring empathy into it.
And a democracy power requirespublic support.
And so I, I've, I think I'verecognized this most when I
(28:06):
realized we were.
Losing empathy in the ways thatwe communicate with each other
if we are impersonal.
Communicating primarily throughdigital means.
I think we've all seen in socialmedia how empathy can get lost
and how true connection.
Is not always at the center,especially of political
(28:27):
conversations that happen onthose platforms.
Um, I'm about a year away fromsocial media platforms myself,
and it's been pretty powerful tosee that difference and see.
On one level, just getting mybrain back how much I've been
able to do, but also thedifference when you need to rely
on more personal connected formsof communication.
(28:49):
And when we're talking aboutcare work, I mean, empathy is
absolutely at the center ofthat.
And I think, you know, hair.
Is an opportunity to connect usto other people.
It's an economic and a socialstory.
We know that care costs can becrushing for families.
(29:11):
The jobs can be really difficultand hard to stay in, and yet.
Care is also the stuff of life.
It's where we make profoundconnections to others.
On a personal level, I, I thinkit's the most direct act of
change you can take to improvesomeone's day is to care for
them.
And when we're able to changethe circumstances in which care
(29:31):
takes place, right?
When we have affordable,accessible, and good quality
care in our society, we're impimproving the futures of
everyone around us.
And it's an empathetic actultimately.
Lee (29:45):
It is the most important thing that we can focus.
Son right now, and I'm sograteful for the work that you
do.
I'm so grateful for your exactexpertise, Angelina, because
your expertise is what we needright now.
We need to be buildingcollective care.
We need to be building communitycare, and I love thinking about
(30:09):
that through the lens ofpolitical will and power.
Angelina, we've talked aboutthese big macro forces and it
can all get really existential,and at the end of the day, we
are individuals in ourcommunities who are having to
face everyday realities.
And so what can we do on thedaily to support ourselves, to
(30:32):
support our communities, and tobuild a care economy?
Angelina Drake (30:36):
So I think if you're seeking change.
For a policy, maybe this is lawsand this is what gets funded for
a candidate or party for whogets represented in our
politics.
It's really important to respectand respond to.
The electorate to understand whoelse you know needs to get
(30:57):
involved.
Politics is a game of addition,and so I think one of the most
important things we can do istalk to other people about the
issues that are driving us andabout specific ways we might
want to make change andapproaching those conversations
in as inclusive a way aspossible.
I think care is, in myexperience, a fantastic way to
(31:20):
connect with.
All people of all backgrounds,beliefs and experiences.
You know, if we are all lucky tolive long lives, we will need
care at some point in time.
Most of us have had tocoordinate it for another family
member at minimum.
Talking about those experiencesis really critical and I would
love if we are also normalizingthe.
(31:44):
Act of taking advantage of thethe levers of power we do have.
So talk to people if you'regoing to vote in a local
election, talk to them.
If you're going to vote in anational election.
Talk about how you arecommunicating with your elected
representatives about theseissues.
Talk about how you're providinga space of community for people
(32:05):
to share some of theirfrustrations with the challenges
that they are going through.
Look for the folks who arelifting messages up and join
them.
As much as these conversationscan happen in person and within
your sphere of influence, peoplerespond best to messages from
folks they trust and know.
(32:26):
And I think the more personal wecan make these conversations,
the better and.
I would just say to do what youcan on the daily to positively
normalize the act of acts oftaking action, right?
Making sure that we are, uh, notfostering cynicism or allowing
folks to dismiss the entiresystem because of the challenges
(32:49):
we're all facing, which is so.
Rooted in, in values that Ireally do understand.
Um, but we also need to makesure we're looking out for one
another.
And sometimes that's taking 15minutes an hour depending on
where you live to vote in alocal election, uh, to meet up
with some people and talk aboutwhat they're facing, to look
(33:10):
around and see who else isspeaking up for your issues in
your community.
Lee (33:14):
It's so important what you're saying of just talking to
each other, Angelina, and Itotally agree because here in my
community I'm hearing a lot of.
Fears of apathy anddisengagement and shutting down,
frankly, because of theoverwhelm.
And so that feels like anamazing note to end on of
(33:37):
talking to each other, beingable to activate our voices in
caring for ourselves and eachother.
So Angelina, I'm so grateful foryour work.
I'm so grateful for thisconversation.
Thank you so much for having itand for taking the time.
Angelina Drake (33:55):
Thank you, Lee.
Lee (33:56):
To learn more about Angelina's work, you can visit
protect our care.org.
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