July 17, 2025 • 43 mins
Sehreen Noor Ali came on the podcast, and she shifted how I think about the word "visionary" forever. Turns out, way more of us are visionaries than we might believe.
Sehreen runs Te Cura Labs where she helps leaders think about strategic visibility. But what I love about her is how she sees the world with both curiosity and empathy. Every time I sit down with her, I leave completely shifted.
In this conversation, Sehreen talks about influence as "the marriage of inner clarity and external resonance"—which finally makes this loaded word feel tangible instead of manipulative.
I especially loved our conversation about radicals versus diplomats. How some of us agitate by working within systems, others by standing outside them, and how we desperately need both right now.
We also dove into:
- Why the gap between how others see us and how we see ourselves is so painful
- The cost of showing up authentically (and how to navigate it)
- Why knowing the playbook first actually helps you agitate better
- How AI is asking us fundamental questions about what it means to be human
- Why claiming your spot and putting down roots is the key to personal brand
This conversation reminded me that you don't have to be on a TED stage to be a visionary. You just need to see the world differently in a way that others need to understand.
About Sehreen: Sehreen Noor Ali is the founder of Te Cura Labs, where she works with experienced leaders to turn hard-earned insight into clear, strategic visibility. After years spent building startups and working across government and tech, she now helps launch modern leaders into their next chapter—those looking to deepen their influence through resonance, not performance.
Before Te Cura, Sehreen co-founded Sleuth, a pediatric AI company shaped by her journey navigating her daughter’s rare diagnosis. By gathering over 60,000 caregiver-contributed health stories, Sleuth surfaced patterns often missed by clinical systems and was recognized by Fast Company as a World-Changing Idea in 2024. The experience cemented her belief that AI and care—separately and together—can transform systems when surfaced with thoughtfulness and intention.
Earlier in her career, Sehreen served at the U.S. Department of State, where she helped build its first Persian-language digital platforms. She later took on leadership roles in edtech and equity-focused networks, served as an Entrepreneur-in-Residence at Brown University, and leads VC-Backed Moms NYC.
Through Te Cura, Sehreen brings care and clarity to the work of visibility—helping leaders show up fully and intentionally in an AI-saturated world, with depth that’s never diluted for optics and always aligned with ambitious impact.
For more information about Sehreen's work, visit www.tecuralabs.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Hey there.
Welcome back to EmpatheticPresence.
I'm Lee.
I am so excited to share myconversation today with Sehreen
Noor Ali.
Sehreen runs Tecura Labs whereshe helps leaders think about
strategic visibility.
My friend Sehreen has alwayschanged the way I see the world.
(00:28):
Anytime I sit down with her, Ileave completely shifted, and
it's because she sees the worldwith both curiosity and empathy.
This conversation with Sehreenshifted the way I think about
the word visionary.
Sehreen talks about how more ofus are visionary than we might
believe, and she talks about.
(00:48):
Influence as this combination ofinner clarity with external
resonance, which makes the wordso much more tangible than I've
ever heard before.
I especially loved ourconversation about the
difference between those of uswho are agitators and disruptors
or diplomats, and how we have toown our own style in order to
(01:10):
move through change moments inour world.
I hope you enjoy my conversationwith Sehreen Noor Ali.
Just as much as I did, enjoy.
Lee (01:20):
Welcome to one of my, favorite human beings, Sehreen
Noor Ali.
Hello.
Sehreen Noor Ali (01:26):
Hi.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to talk to you.
Lee (01:30):
I'm always excited to talk to you and I'm really excited
for our listeners to hear whatyou've been up to, because
everything you've worked onsince I've known you, has been
incredibly aligned andimpactful.
why don't you tell us a littlebit about who you are and how
you use your voice Sehreen.
Sehreen Noor Ali (01:49):
Yeah, I would love I have realized that
stories have no beginning andend.
So my most recent story whereI've used my voice is, um,
transitioning from a venturebacked, uh, founder of a
pediatric AI startup calledSleuth and moving into a, uh,
business serving people whosevoice I wanna see in the world.
(02:13):
And my voice in that process hasbeen primarily as an advocate.
I think that is how I've used myvoice most of my life.
Um, usually for others andparticularly for my children,
which, you know, and for otherchildren, not just my children.
When I started sleuth and nowI'm starting to use my voice for
(02:33):
myself and applying what I learnto, um, empower other people to
use the voice that they have.
Lee (02:41):
Helping people bring their voice in the world and the way
that you've done that withmedical needs parents and kids,
that you have done that, as anadvocate, as a human being in
every community space I've beenwith you in, and now you're
working with founders,entrepreneurs, tell us more.
Sehreen Noor Ali (03:02):
Yeah, I'm working with people who I wanna
see more of in the world whowant to take up more space.
And these are people that havelived experience.
They walk the walk, you couldsay that they've earned it.
You know, they've, they'veearned the right to have a
perspective out there.
They've earned the right fortheir ideas to be messy and not
(03:24):
perfect.
They've earned the right to stepout of, you know, the stereotype
that they might've been playingin and succeeded in, frankly.
Um, and where they're exploringwhat does it mean to, to be
living in this world.
I mean, we're living in areally.
Uncertain world, and I keepmeeting people who are too
(03:50):
afraid to take the platform andI keep finding myself.
I need you to take the platform.
I need you to take the platformfor yourself, but also for
everyone else because the peoplethat are dominating the
narratives don't have us inmind.
Don't have the rest of us inmind.
Lee (04:07):
You're right that word dominating.
That's everything.
And we see this, you know, in somuch of corporate culture, in
our national landscape rightnow, this top down fear-based,
dominant leadership that is soboring.
Like there's, it's sounoriginal.
Sehreen Noor Ali (04:25):
boring, so
Lee (04:27):
It's like so boring.
These people can't think ofanything new and they're so
Sehreen Noor Ali (04:33):
no.
Lee (04:35):
At leading.
They're so
Sehreen Noor Ali (04:36):
Yes, yes.
They're so bad.
They're so bad and, and it'sinteresting'cause like.
I think we are in the emergent,I think of your work.
I think of some of the, the workof our friends and we are in
this emergent space, and I thinkit's really easy to dismiss the
emergent space, but the more I'min it, the more I wanna put the
(05:01):
spotlight on it because peoplewho are in the liminal spaces
who are pushing the edges, thatcreation is gonna become really
important because if you.
Uh, someone told me, Lee, I, Icould not believe this, someone
who graduated from the um, fromIIT in India, a very prestigious
school for technologists, saidto me that he regretted getting
(05:23):
a computer science degree.
My entire career, I have beenmade to feel non-technical.
I've worked a lot of my careerin the tech ecosystem.
I cannot understand how theworld is flipping 180, almost
overnight.
Lee (05:35):
Yeah.
Sehreen Noor Ali (05:36):
so those emergent spaces of redefining
everything.
Is is everything.
Lee (05:44):
Yeah, it is, and it's why those emerging spaces are so
under attack and particularlythe people who know how to lead
from an inclusive and innovativeplace are being
Sehreen Noor Ali (05:55):
Exactly.
Lee (05:56):
It's really
Sehreen Noor Ali (05:57):
a threat.
Lee (05:58):
Exactly.
Of course, it reminds me, evenwhen I was in theater, this
term, emerging director, it was,you know.
And we would be like, who'semerging?
We've been doing this workunderground for 20 years.
We're not emerging.
We are here.
We are the industry, and yetwe're not being spotlighted and
Sehreen Noor Ali (06:17):
Yeah.
Lee (06:19):
And you know, this what you're talking about, this like
taking up space, this rejectingperfectionism, this allowing it
to be messy.
This.
Allowing the emerging to becomemore centralized.
Like what is, what preventspeople from taking up that space
and being in the spotlight?
Sehreen Noor Ali (06:38):
I think we are reaching for an archetype.
Um, I think that we, you know,if you have any, if you have any
kind of quote unquote differenceand all of us do,'cause there's
no really such thing as a norm.
You're always reaching to, thereis a sense of always reaching to
be something that you're not.
And, and I should say I, and notyou, but when I think about my
(06:59):
own experience even growing up,I think it's only becoming clear
now in my forties that while Ihad a pretty good childhood,
when I think about.
What it meant to be who I was inthat setting.
There was always a stretch oflike, oh, but I can be like you.
I know I look different, but Ican be like you.
You don't, I'm not a threat.
(07:20):
I can play basketball just likeyou.
I can do all, you know, girlScouts just like you.
And now where I'm sitting.
I think that the embodiment ofthat, I'm becoming much more
self-aware of what does it meanto constantly feel, um.
Like you're compensating to showsomeone else.
And I'm gonna give a reallyweird example, super weird
(07:40):
example.
Um, do you watch, have you everwatched Bollywood movies?
Okay.
The body type in Bollywoodmovies has changed dramatically
over the past three decades.
And so you see this form thatmaybe you could see was more
typical of, you know, southAsian bodies.
And now all those bodies looklike the bodies you see in
(08:01):
western media, right?
And it's really trippy.
Because those norms get exportedand no matter what we're
drinking someone else's norms.
Right.
Like you used to see women, andI'm not saying one is better
than the other.
All I'm saying is that like kindof natural, authentic ways of
being have always been underattack.
Lee (08:20):
And that have always skewed western and white, you know, in
that dominant, default,
Sehreen Noor Ali (08:26):
Yeah.
And for people that bridge manycultures.
What are you left with?
Do you have to pick one or theother, or can you just be
yourself against those, thosecontexts?
Lee (08:35):
Yep.
Yep.
And in this, you know,intersectional way, it's so
interesting and you know whatyou're talking about.
I hear a lot with my clients ofpeople wanting more confidence
or they want more gravitas orthey're really not
Sehreen Noor Ali (08:49):
Yeah.
Lee (08:50):
with how they are showing up.
even this idea of like, I haveto sound more professional or I
have to sound more precise.
Or I can't communicate the waythat I want to speak.
creates this effort, thisdisconnect, it becomes almost
impossible for them to expressthemselves and be fully present.
Sehreen Noor Ali (09:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's very real.
I mean, I have a, my perspectiveon this is.
When I think about what I did atSleuth, um, I think I, I, I
consider myself a little bitnaive in the beginning, uh,
because I wanted to bring an oldplaybook that I was familiar
(09:32):
with that had a little bit moreof an equity, like social
justice lens into an ecosystemthat had a different playbook.
And I came out of thatexperience a realist about
things.
And now.
A big hypothesis I have is knowthe playbook and then agitate.
(09:54):
I didn't know the playbookbefore, right?
Now I understand the playbookand I know where my points of
influence and agitation are.
And so even when I think aboutinfluence, what I work with on
people is like, how do you testthe message?
Is it gonna hit, is there gonnabe market signal?
First, we have to make sure thatthe message feels resonant with
you, and then we have to tweakit around the borders to see if
(10:17):
the people that you want to, tokind of impact are hearing that
message.
And so for me, it's marrying howthe game works, but making it.
Really your own.
And so one of the things Ireally struggled with even a
couple years ago was executivepresence, which is a term that
I've learned a lot from, fromyou.
And, um, I think that I finallyhave it.
(10:42):
And I remember I went somewhereand someone was like.
You just have swagger.
And it was like one of thenicest compliments I've ever had
in my entire life becauseusually I just am like that over
eager person that wants to helpeveryone, right?
Which is like cute, but like Iwasn't going for cute.
And I, and that really came frombeing confident in myself.
And so I think about how do youmarry these things together so
(11:05):
that it feels like your own
Lee (11:08):
Yeah.
Sehreen Noor Ali (11:08):
showing up in the world in a way where you are
the first person that youinfluence and really
wholeheartedly understandyourself because if you do, if
you do influence on yourselffirst, the rest comes
Lee (11:23):
And that it's coming from this really aligned, authentic
place.
It's not manipulative.
It's, that's so fascinatingSehreen, because I.
I just interviewed someonethinking all about conflict,
navigation and empathy.
And that work always has tostart with ourselves too.
Sehreen Noor Ali (11:42):
Yeah.
Lee (11:43):
as well, and it doesn't surprise me and I, so I love
this idea
Sehreen Noor Ali (11:47):
So I love this idea.
Lee (11:47):
knowing where you are and being a realist there.
Where am I?
Am I in a very top downcorporate hierarchical culture?
Sehreen Noor Ali (11:55):
Yeah.
Lee (11:55):
I in a VC funding world, right?
Knowing where you are and thenconnecting to yourself.
And knowing how to influenceyourself.
Can we talk about this wordinfluence?
Because this word I feel is soloaded and
Sehreen Noor Ali (12:11):
Yeah.
Lee (12:12):
like we're not good at it, or we have to change ourselves
to create influ.
What does that word mean to you?
Sehreen Noor Ali (12:19):
To me, it's the marriage of inner clarity
and external resonance.
So once you bring self-awarenessto yourself, your values, and
your work and your expertise,and you codify that in a way
that you become really consciousabout, then you create the
messaging to share with theworld about what your ideas and
(12:39):
your views are.
So it is inner plus outer, andthey're both very strategic.
Lee (12:46):
Wow.
Inner influence, and that'sreally finding that clarity of
what you want to say and who youare.
Sehreen Noor Ali (12:56):
It's a mirror.
You know, I, um, I was giftedcoaching last year, um, from a
good friend of mine and I didnot ever understand the role of
someone mirroring you because Icould not see myself the way
that people, I.
Love me, see myself and I, andI, I feel like that's very
relatable.
(13:16):
I think a lot of people don'tsee themselves in the world, uh,
the way that others do.
And so that inner claritycomponent requires some sort of
mirror, whether it's like usingchat GPT in a really innovative
way, or, you know, working withsomeone.
I, so I work with really highachieving people who are
(13:37):
heart-centered, and I alwayswondered to myself, is there
anything that I can reallyoffer?
You know, I, I have my ownversion of like, everyone is so
amazing and what I find reallybeautiful, I.
And sad, like heartbreaking.
'cause I, I, I, I don't wantpeople to feel this way, is that
there's always a gap in terms ofhow they really see themselves.
They kind of see themselves outthere performing this thing and
(13:58):
then they're here.
And so what is that gap?
And, and can they fill it withtheir own kind of embodiment and
acceptance of themselves.
Lee (14:07):
Wow.
So it's really bringing theentire world closer to us
instead of us having to leaveourselves and abandon ourselves,
which is a big thing that I seewith a lot of
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:18):
I love that.
Lee (14:19):
Right?
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:20):
Yes.
I love that metaphor.
Yep.
Lee (14:23):
I talk a lot,
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:24):
Yep.
Lee (14:24):
my clients are in a mode of kind of pushing, proving,
projecting, feeling like theyhave to in order to influential,
to have visibility.
And it's all about kind ofshifting that energy to like
welcoming people to you, whichis really about
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:42):
Yes.
Lee (14:43):
right?
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:44):
Yes.
Lee (14:44):
What I think is so fascinating, Sehreen, in just
thinking about this gap, right?
I've known you for a number ofyears now, and
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:52):
Yeah.
Lee (14:52):
always say that you were confident, present, had swagger,
this term executive presence.
Clearly I have very complicatedfeelings about it, but what I
love about you is that.
Even when you're on a panel oryou're being interviewed and
what might be a really highpressure situation, I've always
(15:13):
observed that you take yourtime.
It feels like you sit back intoyourself.
You seem so confident andcomfortable in a way that makes
other people feel confident andcomfortable.
And so
Sehreen Noor Ali (15:25):
So nice.
Lee (15:27):
that gap and the work you've done to that gap is
really important.
Sehreen Noor Ali (15:34):
Thank you.
That means a lot.
And, and I think there is a, I,I think people like you and me
we're okay.
We, we can't not show up in theworld as we are.
It's not in our operatingsystem.
And yet.
And yet we battle, I battle,sorry, I battle things, uh, you
(15:56):
know, and I'm becoming more, um,cognizant of it.
So, for example, shame.
You know, I had this momenttoday where I was like, I just,
I felt shame.
And I was like, where is thiscoming from?
Right?
And really digging deep and, andit's, it was such a subconscious
trigger to be honest.
And I, for me, when I thinkabout the cost of showing up
authentically, there has alwaysbeen a cost.
(16:16):
And so I, I can't.
Not show up authentic, but it,it comes with a cost to me
psychologically.
And that is what I see actuallya little bit in the people I
work with too, because theydon't have imposter syndrome and
they don't relate to the phraseimposter syndrome.
But there is a gap that I'mstill trying to name and that I
(16:39):
think you named when we weretalking about it before, and it
it, I keep going back to thisword embodiment.
And how you feel in your bodyand how you, in those moments,
you know, I, I've now trainedmyself, like, that's shame.
Where do I feel it?
And I felt it in my shouldersand I'm like, where is this
coming from?
You know?
(16:59):
And it's coming from this ideato always be liked, you know, I,
I've had that so much of mylife, you know, I was so shy as
a kid and one day my mom waslike, look.
Your shyness is beingmisinterpreted as being snobby,
and there was nothing worse inthe world to me then and now
than being considered a snob.
And so I overcompensated and Ibecame super friendly to
(17:23):
everybody.
'cause I cannot stand the ideaof being snob.
And it's such a, we, you know,I, you, we all hold these things
in us of like, how do we presentin the world?
And so this idea that someonemight have thought I was being
aggressive or something, I thinkjust triggered something in me,
which is like, that's not whatyou want in the world.
You want people to love you, youknow?
Lee (17:45):
Yeah.
And it so comes down to howwe're socialized too.
And you know, I just, I can'thelp but think of Alicia
Menendez book, the LikabilityTrap, where, you know, so many
femme of center people, andparticularly people of color
are, you know, damned if you do,damned if you don't.
If you want to be too likable,you are.
(18:06):
Seen as too warm.
If you want to be too direct,you're seen as too strong, and
it feels like a losing battle.
It's something I call thevalidation void, you know?
And it's like, especially onZoom in virtual settings, when
we're kind of seeking thatpermission that we're deferring
our authority we're seeking thatvalidation.
If we're
Sehreen Noor Ali (18:25):
Yeah,
Lee (18:26):
it, then we're gonna fill it.
With something else.
And so often, you know,executive leaders are not giving
us that warmth, validation, andconnection that so many of us
Sehreen Noor Ali (18:36):
no,
Lee (18:38):
Right.
Sehreen Noor Ali (18:38):
no, totally.
Those top down leadership modelsagain, right?
In which everyone isparticipating
Lee (18:44):
exactly.
Sehreen Noor Ali (18:46):
I think it's a really interesting container
that everyone's working becauseI think people are seeking that
executive leader to step outjust a little bit so that they
get permission
Lee (18:56):
Yeah.
Sehreen Noor Ali (18:56):
to also be more than just the archetype.
Lee (19:00):
Exactly, and I find in
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:02):
I.
Lee (19:02):
with so many executive leaders that far too many are
secretly struggling with shameand like the stigma of feeling
insecure and never wanting toeven show signs of that.
And that in
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:17):
Yeah.
Lee (19:18):
is so harmful and.
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:20):
it so funny though, because we're living in
an insecure world,
Lee (19:24):
Exactly, exactly.
so much of our culture doesn'tallow space for people to
acknowledge that they'restruggling.
And there's this
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:35):
right?
Lee (19:36):
and this
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:37):
Right.
Lee (19:38):
Instances when I've worked with leaders at the highest
levels, sometimes people won'teven admit to me that they're
feeling anxious.
Sometimes for an
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:46):
Yeah.
Lee (19:47):
of working together, and they're in
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:49):
Wow.
Lee (19:50):
a culture of not being able to admit that they're
struggling.
The shame and the secrecy is sodeep.
And how is that ripplingthroughout their organizations,
right?
Sehreen Noor Ali (20:01):
Completely, completely.
Lee (20:03):
levels of privilege are not creating space in any
Sehreen Noor Ali (20:08):
It takes a lot of courage, right?
It takes, it takes so muchcourage.
I think that's why I keep goingback to the playbook for me,
like playing the game.
You know, I, I, it's, you know,there's like, there's, have you
heard of like the radicals anddiplomats framework in terms of
there's some people that.
(20:29):
I, I probably don't have all thedetails on it, but it's, but
what I, what I taken away fromit is like, almost like what's
your type of agitation?
And I am not a radical.
I am completely 100% a diplomat.
Um, I'm just a loud diplomat.
And so I play the game.
And when I play the game, Iagitate on the fringes.
(20:52):
Like, I just keep moving.
Like it's, it's, it's very, mypersonality, um, and there's
some people who, who play andthere's different types of
people that are gonna agitate intheir own way.
And so the playbook makes a lotof sense for someone like me.
And I work with people that alsosucceeded in their playbook and
now are like, I'm ready toagitate.
(21:12):
I'm ready for my next reallybig, ambitious thing because
I've earned my stripes.
I know how this system works andI am ready to make it better.
Radicals might, might not go ina corporate system or you know,
a longstanding institution, theymay stand outside and say, this
is those pla That's not myparadigm for agitating and
(21:32):
making the world better.
My paradigm is X And I thinkit's very liberating to know
that not one, one is not betterthan the other.
We work in symbiosis, we work,there's a role for everybody.
And where do you have youragency and how do you claim that
that space for yourself?
And put deep roots.
Then I keep having a metaphor inmy mind about my, for myself and
(21:55):
the, and and for the people thatI work with, which is that
you're a tree.
You have.
You have to stand in your spotand really stand there.
You cannot, you cannot stand inanyone else's spot.
'cause if you're not standing ina spot, you're not putting roots
in, you're not creating networksbelow, you're not touching,
you're not giving shade, you'renot protecting yourself.
You're not letting yourself gothrough seasons.
You have to claim your spot.
Lee (22:18):
Claim your spot.
it reminds me too, of and youknow, I.
Was even talking about this witha client two days ago, who, he's
an HR leader in England and he'sdeveloping for more flexibility
in terms of personal needs inmoments of
Sehreen Noor Ali (22:37):
I love that.
Lee (22:38):
know,
Sehreen Noor Ali (22:38):
Yep.
Lee (22:38):
someone's neurodiverse or caring for an aging parent or
going through a transition.
Right?
And I
Sehreen Noor Ali (22:46):
Yep.
Lee (22:46):
to him, you have to be sturdy and stable because what
Sehreen Noor Ali (22:50):
Yeah.
Lee (22:51):
for is not negotiable.
Equity is not negotiable.
Right.
And what I can hear what you'resaying sen, is that, you know,
for folks who are choosing tostay within these structures,
these cultures that we know arenot working for them to be able
to move the needle there, thereneeds to be strength and
(23:12):
stability and sturdiness.
Right.
Sehreen Noor Ali (23:16):
100%.
And that sturdiness comes fromknowing yourself.
I, I, I mean, I will, I willcompletely.
Uh, that is the hill.
That's my hill.
The sturdiness comes fromknowing yourself.
If you can stand in your spotand attract the people that need
your umbrage and protection onthe tree, and other people will
(23:37):
go somewhere else.
It is the way that things openup and the people that, um, need
to come to you do that.
And like, I've seen this with myclients, I see this with my
clients all the time.
When they claim their spot,everything opens up.
It's some kind of magicaluniversal law that when you
accept yourself for who you are,and as cheesy as it sounds like,
(23:59):
you become almost like your ownbest advocate.
It just, everything startslining up.
Lee (24:07):
Can we talk a little about bringing your full self to work
in that context?
You know, and I've worked withpeople and particularly
underrepresented people andpeople who've been, you know,
really silenced and stifled inthese corporate toxic cultures.
I've worked with plenty ofpeople who say, I don't wanna
bring my full self.
They don't deserve my full self.
I wanna protect my full self andgive them a part of me that I'm
(24:30):
deciding to give.
How do we create space forprotection in these really
harmful systems still findingthat alignment?
Sehreen Noor Ali (24:43):
Such a good question.
I mean, I keep going back to theplaybook, like, you know, some
people that, uh, you know, mydaughter was diagnosed with
something several years ago and,um, that.
Ended up becoming a huge part ofthe narrative of my startup, but
I have never revealed herdiagnosis publicly, and I never
will.
And so I am a huge proponent ofshare what you wanna share in
(25:05):
the way that you want to shareit, because you know your
psychological safety, you neverhave to be or perform part of
you for anyone else.
And so when people s.
It, it comes to, to me, it comesdown to the self-awareness of
what you're doing.
If you're participating in asystem where you don't feel like
you can bring your full self, tome, that's fine.
(25:25):
As long as that's a choiceyou're making.
If you are making that choice,that's your choice.
Right?
Um, and then you will decide ifit gets, you know, to the point
of being toxic, then, you know,getting help.
And everyone has their agency inthat.
And I think it's part of, youknow, I.
Burnout is weird, right?
(25:46):
So like I was super burnout lastyear and I thought I wanted to
become the equivalent of like ahippie on the beach, having a
nomadic lifestyle and you know,all that stuff.
And then after I felt like I hadrest, I was like, oh, I'm back
in the game.
I am here.
You know, and I'm so glad I wentthrough that because what I
(26:06):
thought I wanted, which was tostep out of the system
completely, is actually not whatI wanted.
I just wanted as, because I'm adiplomat, I actually wanted to
go back and design it the waythat I needed, but I couldn't
see it'cause I was so burnt out.
And so for me.
I am a person that need, like Iam an entrepreneur at heart.
I cannot not be an entrepreneur.
(26:28):
So for me, going into acorporate system might have felt
like that's not enough of me.
That it, it, it's too much, it'stoo inauthentic.
But I'm still playing the game,but it's just in a way that I
feel like I can show up in a waythat lights me up.
Um, and that makes me feel likeI'm self-aware about where my
(26:48):
boundaries are too.
Lee (26:50):
This resonates so deeply because I've been talking to a
lot of.
People who are maybe gettinginto organizing or activism for
the first time.
And really this idea of like, weall have, we all have to do
something, but we have to showup in a way that feels safe and
comfortable for ourselves andthat really, you know, honors
what we feel good at and how wewant to participate.
(27:11):
And I think it's a beautifulthing.
I think this is what boundariesmeans.
Like boundaries is a word I keeptrying to figure out.
And I think what you'rearticulating is boundaries, is
knowing yourself.
Sehreen Noor Ali (27:25):
100%.
It is the most amazing tool inthe toolkit.
Lee (27:31):
Yeah.
a hard one though,
Sehreen Noor Ali (27:35):
It is hard
Lee (27:35):
this
Sehreen Noor Ali (27:36):
it.
Lee (27:36):
what you're talking about with this playbook in general
and then this idea of radical,I.
Versus diplomat.
I'm definitely on the radicalside of that and I just wanna
Sehreen Noor Ali (27:47):
Right.
Lee (27:47):
and in,
Sehreen Noor Ali (27:49):
Yeah.
Lee (27:49):
where we're seeing like such a failure, not just of
leadership, but a failure of,you know, the systems that have
been failing people in thesociety for many, many, many,
many generations.
Do you think we need orradicals?
Revolutionaries
Sehreen Noor Ali (28:10):
I think we need both.
I think I, I think I am seeing aself-awareness across verticals
really open up.
I'm seeing the same questionsand themes start to emerge,
which is, you know, some elementof space.
How do I get more space in mylife?
(28:31):
Um, how do we connect with eachother more and how do we change
things?
How do we think about thingsdifferently and where are my
people?
And I'm seeing this like, youknow, there's a sub, there's
kind of like that, what we seeon the news.
(28:52):
And then there's the.
Huge undercurrent in the subtextthat's happening.
And a lot of people are startingto break this idea of like, why
is this normal?
Why is this normal?
Why is this normal?
And because people are acrossdifferent verticals, I think the
radicals in the diplomats arestarting to get on the same
wavelength and be a little bitdifferent.
And I'll be honest, I want to bea rad.
(29:14):
I want to be a radical.
Like, there's something aboutit.
Like I love the idea of likeblowing stuff up and like
whatever.
But um, I went to a very liberalarts college and I remember my
closest friend was like, youknow, we think we're so hippie
and all this stuff, which islike everyone that we graduated
went into like medicine, bankingor something else.
And I was like, oh yeah, that'sreally funny.
(29:34):
Um.
And I was always like, oh, whata disappointment.
But I do think when I meetpeople, they are agitating in
their own space and that'sreally, really valid.
And I think a lot of us are, um,for good reason.
I.
A little bit more socialized tothe institutional side, right?
You know, the immigrantexperience, safety and a thing.
(29:55):
And we need to actually startworking with more radicals.
I think actually the opportunityis not one or the other, but how
do we actually start seeing eachother and see that there's
common ground?
Because typically people who areon, you know, radical are called
crazy and people who arediplomats are called sellouts
and like that helps nobody.
Lee (30:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And even thinking about it inthat, you know, black and white
binary, as our society is so upto do right, it creates this
distance.
And I completely agree with you.
I
Sehreen Noor Ali (30:31):
There's, there's a huge distance.
Yeah.
Lee (30:34):
Yeah.
Sehreen Noor Ali (30:34):
I see this even in my own community, Lee,
like I, in my own faithcommunity, it's really
fascinating.
There, there are youngergenerations who are holding the
older generations of which I am,I am old now.
Um, to them.
That are like you, you guys areplaying in the system.
Like what are you doing?
Why are you not agitating?
(30:55):
Why are you not speaking out onthis and why are you doing that?
And I kind of look at it likekind of an arm terror
sociologist.
And it's really interestingbecause that part of me that
wants to be a radical and I waslike, like there's also the part
of me that's like, you know,there's a history of our
community.
We had to protect ourselves.
We had to.
Better ourselves insocioeconomic, you know, in in
(31:15):
economic security.
And I laugh a little because aslike the auntie, I'm happy that
they have the privilege to beable to speak out against it.
My parents did not.
And they don't realize how manygenerations on whose shoulders
they're standing.
And so I can see this conflicton some of the Instagram posts.
(31:37):
And some people are like, whyare you doing this?
And I was like.
This is an evolution.
The fact that you can haveradicals and diplomats is a
testament to the evolution of acommunity.
And it pains me that there isdiscord, like there has to be
room for all ways to change.
And so for me, this idea ofinfluence and thought leadership
(31:59):
tends to be for the diplomats
Lee (32:01):
Mm.
Sehreen Noor Ali (32:02):
because.
I have agitated within systems.
I, I worked at the StateDepartment.
I agitated within that system.
I worked in, you know, venturebacked ecosystem.
I agi agitated in that I was amedical needs mom, you know, in
the medical system.
Like I agitate to our systems.
Like I have that playbook, youknow, and I, I think the
(32:23):
opportunity is for us to sharethe playbooks and where we're
seeing and to come together alittle bit on this.
Lee (32:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
And to start breaking down someof those, you know, status quo
barriers as our friend ChristinaBlacken talks about.
Yeah.
And you know, I've heard youtalk about the word visionary
too, and know.
What, what does that word evenmean in this context?
Do we need visionaries rightnow?
I,
Sehreen Noor Ali (32:52):
Yes.
I think it's less, I think it'sactually kind of an equal
opportunity word.
I don't think, it does not, tome it does not match like being
the top of the hill.
You know?
It doesn't, you don't have to.
It's actually, can you see theworld differently in a way that
we all need to understand?
And I think of it, you're gonnalaugh at me, but I look at it as
like a mycelium node.
(33:13):
Like I look at the world, right?
And so if one activates.
Then that energizes someone elseand there's this shared energy
and a network that can keepgrowing.
And so I think more people arevisionaries than they know.
They're not the people on theTED stage, for example.
Like I think we have this ideaand I really want people to see
themselves as people who haveearned, earned their stripes,
(33:37):
have lived experience, who havea view on the world that if they
share, can start igniting notjust their vision, but other
people's visions too.
Lee (33:44):
Wow.
And that's, you know, claimingyour spot and stepping into the
light and taking up space andall of what you're talking
about, and even changing theperception of who's a leader,
who's an expert, who's avisionary, and really taking
these words back.
Sehreen Noor Ali (34:01):
Completely because those words are all
individualistic it, it allpresumes individual achievement
and individual progress, and weare not going to figure out this
era of uncertainty.
Through individual achievement,it will only happen with each
other.
And leadership sounds that waytoo.
You have leadership developmentprograms and Well, no.
(34:24):
No.
That's not how it's, this thingis gonna work.
It's gonna happen by usactivating each other and it's
spreading.
Lee (34:31):
You have been someone who's really influenced me in terms of
feeling more comfortable to useAI and to see it as a creative
tool and what you said aboutmycelium and the unseen
connections that we all have,and whether that is.
Through our connections, ourvirtual, but even AI is almost
(34:56):
creating this mycelium, right,in a way, throughout all of us.
And how is this tool somethingthat we can leverage agitate
while it's still such anentrenched part of systems that
might be harmful or destructive?
Sehreen Noor Ali (35:15):
Yeah, I, I, I think that more people, um, need
to use it.
I think more people that arelike you and me, need to start
using it because why would weseed this to others?
Why would we make theconversation only that AI is
like a business first toolversus other things that it can
do?
(35:35):
Why wouldn't we be part of thismoment to claim it for ourselves
as well and claim it for.
What it can do for us.
And I think AI is a reallytricky term because we think
it's this only, this one thingthat it's, it makes us more
productive.
Sure.
And I'm like really good at itand I love it.
And it really does.
(35:55):
And I think there's an argumentto be made that if you are a
person who's, I'm a caregiver, Igo to a lot of doctor's
appointments for my daughter, Ineed the leverage, I need time.
Right.
So there's a lot of use caseslike that where I think people.
Can, and I hope do decide to useit for that.
But AI is also asking us to bein a relationship with a literal
artificial intelligence.
(36:16):
This is a really key point.
In 2025, it is not goinganywhere.
We're literally being asked,what does it mean to be human?
When there is a technology thatis smarter than us, what does it
mean to know ourselves?
We are holding on to ideas ofbeing human that we need to
drop.
We need to drop our obsessionwith being smart.
(36:39):
We need to drop our obsessionwith being like productive all
the time.
We need to think about thethings that, what does it mean
to then care something that AIcannot do?
How do we care for each other?
Lee (36:51):
Exactly.
Sehreen Noor Ali (36:52):
Um, how do we actually.
You know, I've had life changingconversations with ai.
That sounds really funny, butit's actually really true.
And so just two days ago atevaluate, I asked, like I had
this prompt that I borrowed forsomeone.
Um, and it said things to methat have really changed my self
(37:12):
perception.
And I showed it to a friend andI showed it to my husband and
they're like, oh my God, this iscrazy.
You know?
So there are ways for it toaugment our self knowing.
And I think we're stuck onright.
It it's beautiful.
Slightly painful, but alsobeautiful.
Lee (37:32):
you know what?
I've been supporting so manyleaders in AI for 10 years.
My clients are data scientistsand data leaders and machine
learners, and the people who'vebeen building this.
And many of my clients have, youknow, really lost the battle of
data governance and data ethicswithin their organizations as
well.
And
Sehreen Noor Ali (37:51):
Yeah.
Lee (37:52):
deeply about this and.
I've even had people find methrough chat, GPT.
I've had people tell chat, GPTwhat they're experiencing, how
they can express themselves, andI am the first thing that comes
up.
I
Sehreen Noor Ali (38:06):
How do you feel about that?
Lee (38:08):
I think it's amazing because these are some of the
most aligned clients I've evermet.
I don't know if we would've metotherwise.
Incredibly heartfelt leaders intheir individual subject matter
expertise who.
Want to lead with empathy, whowant to do this work Sehreen, I
am deeply afraid.
There was some news that cameout that open AI is not actually
(38:31):
deleting when you tell it todelete.
And they're being tasked fromthe government to be able to
produce
Sehreen Noor Ali (38:39):
Yeah,
Lee (38:40):
And so is there a limit in terms of how we should be using
this technology,
Sehreen Noor Ali (38:45):
sure.
Lee (38:45):
be telling it, and can it limit our ability to, to be
visionary?
Sehreen Noor Ali (38:52):
I, I think because I'm a realist, our
influence comes from using it.
Lee (38:58):
Hmm.
Sehreen Noor Ali (38:59):
It, it, it, I mean, we still live in a
capitalist world.
We need to use it and say whatwe want.
That is the playbook.
If you use a product and yougive feedback and you say, I'm
not gonna put up with this, thatis the playbook.
So I think we need to start fromthere.
We need to also understand theterms of service when we're
using it, and we can run thatthrough chat gpt and saying, how
(39:21):
do you use my data?
What are the settings I need todo to turn it off, et cetera.
Um.
Does it limit us to beingvisionary?
No.
You know, Lee, I'm really afraidthat good people are gonna be
left behind because we thinkabout this as a binary
situation.
We are not in a binarysituation.
(39:43):
If I could scream that onrooftops, I would scream it.
We are not in a binarysituation.
We lose if we don't start havinga relationship with this
technology.
If people of color, people withdisabilities, trans, like, if we
don't use this, we are literallygiving it away.
(40:04):
I,
Lee (40:05):
Yeah.
And being left out.
Sehreen Noor Ali (40:09):
I think worse, frankly, it's not just to being
about left out.
It's going to, it's gonna beviolent.
Lee (40:16):
Yeah.
Sehreen Noor Ali (40:16):
I don't mean to, I don't mean to like
overstate it, but this is,there's a lot at stake.
I, and even I, I don't evenwanna admit that to myself.
Frankly.
There is a lot at stake here ifpeople don't start really, I
(40:37):
don't wanna say just use it, butbe in relationship with it,
influence it.
We should be influencing.
The AI.
Lee (40:48):
There's that word again, influence.
And in order to influence, wehave to, you know, have that
alignment in ourselves.
And I really love that, theclarity of that, that inner
clarity that you talked about,because I think if more of us
had that inner clarity, we wouldbe unstoppable.
Sehreen Noor Ali (41:12):
Yeah, and the clarity and, and the ability or
desire or confidence to sharethat inner clarity because.
You and I are so fortunate toknow so many people that have
inner clarity have a very strongsense of self.
It's that it's, it's that restof it.
Will you please share it withme?
(41:34):
Will you please put your viewsout in the world?
Can I please know you that Ifeel like I'm working?
You know, I have this reallyamazing client who's created a
tremendous business that's justimpacted social connection and
sometimes I find myself askingthem to.
Please share like the playbookon how you did that.
(41:55):
Other people need to know thatplaybook because the amount of
courage it takes to knowyourself, a lot of people have
not yet developed yet.
So if you are already willing toknow yourself and, and really
say, this is who I am, you, wecan all guide each other through
this process, but we have to bewilling to share what we think,
(42:16):
especially when it's notperfect.
Lee (42:20):
And what you just said.
If, if we can have the courageto know ourselves and that I
feel like is everything, andthat's what I think.
You've been doing since waybefore you started this current
venture.
I remember the first time I satdown with you one-on-one, I
could feel that of just thiscomfort this courage to know
(42:46):
ourselves.
And I'm so thrilled that you'redoing this work right now in
this moment of helping peoplefind their spot and claim their
spot because it's really, reallyimportant.
it needs, it needs to be here inthe world.
So you so much for
Sehreen Noor Ali (43:04):
Well, likewise, I, I mean, you've been
a huge inspiration as youdeveloped your business, and I
got to see it from the earlydays, and I think that's a
testament to we need to see eachother.
Like, you have inspired me.
You have shown me that it'spossible to be your full self
(43:25):
and you can evolve and you can.
Just be and still have abusiness that can serve other
people.
And so I hope if your listenershear that, it encourages them.
Like you've been a huge exampleof like, I can do it too.
You know?
I,
Lee (43:44):
Hmm.
To see ourselves and to see eachother.
Uh, Thank you, my friend.
Thank you, Sehreen.
Hey there.
Welcome back to EmpatheticPresence.
I'm Lee.
I am so excited to share myconversation today with Sehreen
Noor Ali.
Sehreen runs Tecura Labs whereshe helps leaders think about
strategic visibility.
My friend Sehreen has alwayschanged the way I see the world.
(00:28):
Anytime I sit down with her, Ileave completely shifted, and
it's because she sees the worldwith both curiosity and empathy.
This conversation with Sehreenshifted the way I think about
the word visionary.
Sehreen talks about how more ofus are visionary than we might
believe, and she talks about.
(00:48):
Influence as this combination ofinner clarity with external
resonance, which makes the wordso much more tangible than I've
ever heard before.
I especially loved ourconversation about the
difference between those of uswho are agitators and disruptors
or diplomats, and how we have toown our own style in order to
(01:10):
move through change moments inour world.
I hope you enjoy my conversationwith Sehreen Noor Ali.
Just as much as I did, enjoy.
Lee (01:20):
Welcome to one of my, favorite human beings, Sehreen
Noor Ali.
Hello.
Sehreen Noor Ali (01:26):
Hi.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to talk to you.
Lee (01:30):
I'm always excited to talk to you and I'm really excited
for our listeners to hear whatyou've been up to, because
everything you've worked onsince I've known you, has been
incredibly aligned andimpactful.
why don't you tell us a littlebit about who you are and how
you use your voice Sehreen.
Sehreen Noor Ali (01:49):
Yeah, I would love I have realized that
stories have no beginning andend.
So my most recent story whereI've used my voice is, um,
transitioning from a venturebacked, uh, founder of a
pediatric AI startup calledSleuth and moving into a, uh,
business serving people whosevoice I wanna see in the world.
(02:13):
And my voice in that process hasbeen primarily as an advocate.
I think that is how I've used myvoice most of my life.
Um, usually for others andparticularly for my children,
which, you know, and for otherchildren, not just my children.
When I started sleuth and nowI'm starting to use my voice for
(02:33):
myself and applying what I learnto, um, empower other people to
use the voice that they have.
Lee (02:41):
Helping people bring their voice in the world and the way
that you've done that withmedical needs parents and kids,
that you have done that, as anadvocate, as a human being in
every community space I've beenwith you in, and now you're
working with founders,entrepreneurs, tell us more.
Sehreen Noor Ali (03:02):
Yeah, I'm working with people who I wanna
see more of in the world whowant to take up more space.
And these are people that havelived experience.
They walk the walk, you couldsay that they've earned it.
You know, they've, they'veearned the right to have a
perspective out there.
They've earned the right fortheir ideas to be messy and not
(03:24):
perfect.
They've earned the right to stepout of, you know, the stereotype
that they might've been playingin and succeeded in, frankly.
Um, and where they're exploringwhat does it mean to, to be
living in this world.
I mean, we're living in areally.
Uncertain world, and I keepmeeting people who are too
(03:50):
afraid to take the platform andI keep finding myself.
I need you to take the platform.
I need you to take the platformfor yourself, but also for
everyone else because the peoplethat are dominating the
narratives don't have us inmind.
Don't have the rest of us inmind.
Lee (04:07):
You're right that word dominating.
That's everything.
And we see this, you know, in somuch of corporate culture, in
our national landscape rightnow, this top down fear-based,
dominant leadership that is soboring.
Like there's, it's sounoriginal.
Sehreen Noor Ali (04:25):
boring, so
Lee (04:27):
It's like so boring.
These people can't think ofanything new and they're so
Sehreen Noor Ali (04:33):
no.
Lee (04:35):
At leading.
They're so
Sehreen Noor Ali (04:36):
Yes, yes.
They're so bad.
They're so bad and, and it'sinteresting'cause like.
I think we are in the emergent,I think of your work.
I think of some of the, the workof our friends and we are in
this emergent space, and I thinkit's really easy to dismiss the
emergent space, but the more I'min it, the more I wanna put the
(05:01):
spotlight on it because peoplewho are in the liminal spaces
who are pushing the edges, thatcreation is gonna become really
important because if you.
Uh, someone told me, Lee, I, Icould not believe this, someone
who graduated from the um, fromIIT in India, a very prestigious
school for technologists, saidto me that he regretted getting
(05:23):
a computer science degree.
My entire career, I have beenmade to feel non-technical.
I've worked a lot of my careerin the tech ecosystem.
I cannot understand how theworld is flipping 180, almost
overnight.
Lee (05:35):
Yeah.
Sehreen Noor Ali (05:36):
so those emergent spaces of redefining
everything.
Is is everything.
Lee (05:44):
Yeah, it is, and it's why those emerging spaces are so
under attack and particularlythe people who know how to lead
from an inclusive and innovativeplace are being
Sehreen Noor Ali (05:55):
Exactly.
Lee (05:56):
It's really
Sehreen Noor Ali (05:57):
a threat.
Lee (05:58):
Exactly.
Of course, it reminds me, evenwhen I was in theater, this
term, emerging director, it was,you know.
And we would be like, who'semerging?
We've been doing this workunderground for 20 years.
We're not emerging.
We are here.
We are the industry, and yetwe're not being spotlighted and
Sehreen Noor Ali (06:17):
Yeah.
Lee (06:19):
And you know, this what you're talking about, this like
taking up space, this rejectingperfectionism, this allowing it
to be messy.
This.
Allowing the emerging to becomemore centralized.
Like what is, what preventspeople from taking up that space
and being in the spotlight?
Sehreen Noor Ali (06:38):
I think we are reaching for an archetype.
Um, I think that we, you know,if you have any, if you have any
kind of quote unquote differenceand all of us do,'cause there's
no really such thing as a norm.
You're always reaching to, thereis a sense of always reaching to
be something that you're not.
And, and I should say I, and notyou, but when I think about my
(06:59):
own experience even growing up,I think it's only becoming clear
now in my forties that while Ihad a pretty good childhood,
when I think about.
What it meant to be who I was inthat setting.
There was always a stretch oflike, oh, but I can be like you.
I know I look different, but Ican be like you.
You don't, I'm not a threat.
(07:20):
I can play basketball just likeyou.
I can do all, you know, girlScouts just like you.
And now where I'm sitting.
I think that the embodiment ofthat, I'm becoming much more
self-aware of what does it meanto constantly feel, um.
Like you're compensating to showsomeone else.
And I'm gonna give a reallyweird example, super weird
(07:40):
example.
Um, do you watch, have you everwatched Bollywood movies?
Okay.
The body type in Bollywoodmovies has changed dramatically
over the past three decades.
And so you see this form thatmaybe you could see was more
typical of, you know, southAsian bodies.
And now all those bodies looklike the bodies you see in
(08:01):
western media, right?
And it's really trippy.
Because those norms get exportedand no matter what we're
drinking someone else's norms.
Right.
Like you used to see women, andI'm not saying one is better
than the other.
All I'm saying is that like kindof natural, authentic ways of
being have always been underattack.
Lee (08:20):
And that have always skewed western and white, you know, in
that dominant, default,
Sehreen Noor Ali (08:26):
Yeah.
And for people that bridge manycultures.
What are you left with?
Do you have to pick one or theother, or can you just be
yourself against those, thosecontexts?
Lee (08:35):
Yep.
Yep.
And in this, you know,intersectional way, it's so
interesting and you know whatyou're talking about.
I hear a lot with my clients ofpeople wanting more confidence
or they want more gravitas orthey're really not
Sehreen Noor Ali (08:49):
Yeah.
Lee (08:50):
with how they are showing up.
even this idea of like, I haveto sound more professional or I
have to sound more precise.
Or I can't communicate the waythat I want to speak.
creates this effort, thisdisconnect, it becomes almost
impossible for them to expressthemselves and be fully present.
Sehreen Noor Ali (09:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's very real.
I mean, I have a, my perspectiveon this is.
When I think about what I did atSleuth, um, I think I, I, I
consider myself a little bitnaive in the beginning, uh,
because I wanted to bring an oldplaybook that I was familiar
(09:32):
with that had a little bit moreof an equity, like social
justice lens into an ecosystemthat had a different playbook.
And I came out of thatexperience a realist about
things.
And now.
A big hypothesis I have is knowthe playbook and then agitate.
(09:54):
I didn't know the playbookbefore, right?
Now I understand the playbookand I know where my points of
influence and agitation are.
And so even when I think aboutinfluence, what I work with on
people is like, how do you testthe message?
Is it gonna hit, is there gonnabe market signal?
First, we have to make sure thatthe message feels resonant with
you, and then we have to tweakit around the borders to see if
(10:17):
the people that you want to, tokind of impact are hearing that
message.
And so for me, it's marrying howthe game works, but making it.
Really your own.
And so one of the things Ireally struggled with even a
couple years ago was executivepresence, which is a term that
I've learned a lot from, fromyou.
And, um, I think that I finallyhave it.
(10:42):
And I remember I went somewhereand someone was like.
You just have swagger.
And it was like one of thenicest compliments I've ever had
in my entire life becauseusually I just am like that over
eager person that wants to helpeveryone, right?
Which is like cute, but like Iwasn't going for cute.
And I, and that really came frombeing confident in myself.
And so I think about how do youmarry these things together so
(11:05):
that it feels like your own
Lee (11:08):
Yeah.
Sehreen Noor Ali (11:08):
showing up in the world in a way where you are
the first person that youinfluence and really
wholeheartedly understandyourself because if you do, if
you do influence on yourselffirst, the rest comes
Lee (11:23):
And that it's coming from this really aligned, authentic
place.
It's not manipulative.
It's, that's so fascinatingSehreen, because I.
I just interviewed someonethinking all about conflict,
navigation and empathy.
And that work always has tostart with ourselves too.
Sehreen Noor Ali (11:42):
Yeah.
Lee (11:43):
as well, and it doesn't surprise me and I, so I love
this idea
Sehreen Noor Ali (11:47):
So I love this idea.
Lee (11:47):
knowing where you are and being a realist there.
Where am I?
Am I in a very top downcorporate hierarchical culture?
Sehreen Noor Ali (11:55):
Yeah.
Lee (11:55):
I in a VC funding world, right?
Knowing where you are and thenconnecting to yourself.
And knowing how to influenceyourself.
Can we talk about this wordinfluence?
Because this word I feel is soloaded and
Sehreen Noor Ali (12:11):
Yeah.
Lee (12:12):
like we're not good at it, or we have to change ourselves
to create influ.
What does that word mean to you?
Sehreen Noor Ali (12:19):
To me, it's the marriage of inner clarity
and external resonance.
So once you bring self-awarenessto yourself, your values, and
your work and your expertise,and you codify that in a way
that you become really consciousabout, then you create the
messaging to share with theworld about what your ideas and
(12:39):
your views are.
So it is inner plus outer, andthey're both very strategic.
Lee (12:46):
Wow.
Inner influence, and that'sreally finding that clarity of
what you want to say and who youare.
Sehreen Noor Ali (12:56):
It's a mirror.
You know, I, um, I was giftedcoaching last year, um, from a
good friend of mine and I didnot ever understand the role of
someone mirroring you because Icould not see myself the way
that people, I.
Love me, see myself and I, andI, I feel like that's very
relatable.
(13:16):
I think a lot of people don'tsee themselves in the world, uh,
the way that others do.
And so that inner claritycomponent requires some sort of
mirror, whether it's like usingchat GPT in a really innovative
way, or, you know, working withsomeone.
I, so I work with really highachieving people who are
(13:37):
heart-centered, and I alwayswondered to myself, is there
anything that I can reallyoffer?
You know, I, I have my ownversion of like, everyone is so
amazing and what I find reallybeautiful, I.
And sad, like heartbreaking.
'cause I, I, I, I don't wantpeople to feel this way, is that
there's always a gap in terms ofhow they really see themselves.
They kind of see themselves outthere performing this thing and
(13:58):
then they're here.
And so what is that gap?
And, and can they fill it withtheir own kind of embodiment and
acceptance of themselves.
Lee (14:07):
Wow.
So it's really bringing theentire world closer to us
instead of us having to leaveourselves and abandon ourselves,
which is a big thing that I seewith a lot of
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:18):
I love that.
Lee (14:19):
Right?
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:20):
Yes.
I love that metaphor.
Yep.
Lee (14:23):
I talk a lot,
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:24):
Yep.
Lee (14:24):
my clients are in a mode of kind of pushing, proving,
projecting, feeling like theyhave to in order to influential,
to have visibility.
And it's all about kind ofshifting that energy to like
welcoming people to you, whichis really about
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:42):
Yes.
Lee (14:43):
right?
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:44):
Yes.
Lee (14:44):
What I think is so fascinating, Sehreen, in just
thinking about this gap, right?
I've known you for a number ofyears now, and
Sehreen Noor Ali (14:52):
Yeah.
Lee (14:52):
always say that you were confident, present, had swagger,
this term executive presence.
Clearly I have very complicatedfeelings about it, but what I
love about you is that.
Even when you're on a panel oryou're being interviewed and
what might be a really highpressure situation, I've always
(15:13):
observed that you take yourtime.
It feels like you sit back intoyourself.
You seem so confident andcomfortable in a way that makes
other people feel confident andcomfortable.
And so
Sehreen Noor Ali (15:25):
So nice.
Lee (15:27):
that gap and the work you've done to that gap is
really important.
Sehreen Noor Ali (15:34):
Thank you.
That means a lot.
And, and I think there is a, I,I think people like you and me
we're okay.
We, we can't not show up in theworld as we are.
It's not in our operatingsystem.
And yet.
And yet we battle, I battle,sorry, I battle things, uh, you
(15:56):
know, and I'm becoming more, um,cognizant of it.
So, for example, shame.
You know, I had this momenttoday where I was like, I just,
I felt shame.
And I was like, where is thiscoming from?
Right?
And really digging deep and, andit's, it was such a subconscious
trigger to be honest.
And I, for me, when I thinkabout the cost of showing up
authentically, there has alwaysbeen a cost.
(16:16):
And so I, I can't.
Not show up authentic, but it,it comes with a cost to me
psychologically.
And that is what I see actuallya little bit in the people I
work with too, because theydon't have imposter syndrome and
they don't relate to the phraseimposter syndrome.
But there is a gap that I'mstill trying to name and that I
(16:39):
think you named when we weretalking about it before, and it
it, I keep going back to thisword embodiment.
And how you feel in your bodyand how you, in those moments,
you know, I, I've now trainedmyself, like, that's shame.
Where do I feel it?
And I felt it in my shouldersand I'm like, where is this
coming from?
You know?
(16:59):
And it's coming from this ideato always be liked, you know, I,
I've had that so much of mylife, you know, I was so shy as
a kid and one day my mom waslike, look.
Your shyness is beingmisinterpreted as being snobby,
and there was nothing worse inthe world to me then and now
than being considered a snob.
And so I overcompensated and Ibecame super friendly to
(17:23):
everybody.
'cause I cannot stand the ideaof being snob.
And it's such a, we, you know,I, you, we all hold these things
in us of like, how do we presentin the world?
And so this idea that someonemight have thought I was being
aggressive or something, I thinkjust triggered something in me,
which is like, that's not whatyou want in the world.
You want people to love you, youknow?
Lee (17:45):
Yeah.
And it so comes down to howwe're socialized too.
And you know, I just, I can'thelp but think of Alicia
Menendez book, the LikabilityTrap, where, you know, so many
femme of center people, andparticularly people of color
are, you know, damned if you do,damned if you don't.
If you want to be too likable,you are.
(18:06):
Seen as too warm.
If you want to be too direct,you're seen as too strong, and
it feels like a losing battle.
It's something I call thevalidation void, you know?
And it's like, especially onZoom in virtual settings, when
we're kind of seeking thatpermission that we're deferring
our authority we're seeking thatvalidation.
If we're
Sehreen Noor Ali (18:25):
Yeah,
Lee (18:26):
it, then we're gonna fill it.
With something else.
And so often, you know,executive leaders are not giving
us that warmth, validation, andconnection that so many of us
Sehreen Noor Ali (18:36):
no,
Lee (18:38):
Right.
Sehreen Noor Ali (18:38):
no, totally.
Those top down leadership modelsagain, right?
In which everyone isparticipating
Lee (18:44):
exactly.
Sehreen Noor Ali (18:46):
I think it's a really interesting container
that everyone's working becauseI think people are seeking that
executive leader to step outjust a little bit so that they
get permission
Lee (18:56):
Yeah.
Sehreen Noor Ali (18:56):
to also be more than just the archetype.
Lee (19:00):
Exactly, and I find in
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:02):
I.
Lee (19:02):
with so many executive leaders that far too many are
secretly struggling with shameand like the stigma of feeling
insecure and never wanting toeven show signs of that.
And that in
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:17):
Yeah.
Lee (19:18):
is so harmful and.
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:20):
it so funny though, because we're living in
an insecure world,
Lee (19:24):
Exactly, exactly.
so much of our culture doesn'tallow space for people to
acknowledge that they'restruggling.
And there's this
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:35):
right?
Lee (19:36):
and this
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:37):
Right.
Lee (19:38):
Instances when I've worked with leaders at the highest
levels, sometimes people won'teven admit to me that they're
feeling anxious.
Sometimes for an
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:46):
Yeah.
Lee (19:47):
of working together, and they're in
Sehreen Noor Ali (19:49):
Wow.
Lee (19:50):
a culture of not being able to admit that they're
struggling.
The shame and the secrecy is sodeep.
And how is that ripplingthroughout their organizations,
right?
Sehreen Noor Ali (20:01):
Completely, completely.
Lee (20:03):
levels of privilege are not creating space in any
Sehreen Noor Ali (20:08):
It takes a lot of courage, right?
It takes, it takes so muchcourage.
I think that's why I keep goingback to the playbook for me,
like playing the game.
You know, I, I, it's, you know,there's like, there's, have you
heard of like the radicals anddiplomats framework in terms of
there's some people that.
(20:29):
I, I probably don't have all thedetails on it, but it's, but
what I, what I taken away fromit is like, almost like what's
your type of agitation?
And I am not a radical.
I am completely 100% a diplomat.
Um, I'm just a loud diplomat.
And so I play the game.
And when I play the game, Iagitate on the fringes.
(20:52):
Like, I just keep moving.
Like it's, it's, it's very, mypersonality, um, and there's
some people who, who play andthere's different types of
people that are gonna agitate intheir own way.
And so the playbook makes a lotof sense for someone like me.
And I work with people that alsosucceeded in their playbook and
now are like, I'm ready toagitate.
(21:12):
I'm ready for my next reallybig, ambitious thing because
I've earned my stripes.
I know how this system works andI am ready to make it better.
Radicals might, might not go ina corporate system or you know,
a longstanding institution, theymay stand outside and say, this
is those pla That's not myparadigm for agitating and
(21:32):
making the world better.
My paradigm is X And I thinkit's very liberating to know
that not one, one is not betterthan the other.
We work in symbiosis, we work,there's a role for everybody.
And where do you have youragency and how do you claim that
that space for yourself?
And put deep roots.
Then I keep having a metaphor inmy mind about my, for myself and
(21:55):
the, and and for the people thatI work with, which is that
you're a tree.
You have.
You have to stand in your spotand really stand there.
You cannot, you cannot stand inanyone else's spot.
'cause if you're not standing ina spot, you're not putting roots
in, you're not creating networksbelow, you're not touching,
you're not giving shade, you'renot protecting yourself.
You're not letting yourself gothrough seasons.
You have to claim your spot.
Lee (22:18):
Claim your spot.
it reminds me too, of and youknow, I.
Was even talking about this witha client two days ago, who, he's
an HR leader in England and he'sdeveloping for more flexibility
in terms of personal needs inmoments of
Sehreen Noor Ali (22:37):
I love that.
Lee (22:38):
know,
Sehreen Noor Ali (22:38):
Yep.
Lee (22:38):
someone's neurodiverse or caring for an aging parent or
going through a transition.
Right?
And I
Sehreen Noor Ali (22:46):
Yep.
Lee (22:46):
to him, you have to be sturdy and stable because what
Sehreen Noor Ali (22:50):
Yeah.
Lee (22:51):
for is not negotiable.
Equity is not negotiable.
Right.
And what I can hear what you'resaying sen, is that, you know,
for folks who are choosing tostay within these structures,
these cultures that we know arenot working for them to be able
to move the needle there, thereneeds to be strength and
(23:12):
stability and sturdiness.
Right.
Sehreen Noor Ali (23:16):
100%.
And that sturdiness comes fromknowing yourself.
I, I, I mean, I will, I willcompletely.
Uh, that is the hill.
That's my hill.
The sturdiness comes fromknowing yourself.
If you can stand in your spotand attract the people that need
your umbrage and protection onthe tree, and other people will
(23:37):
go somewhere else.
It is the way that things openup and the people that, um, need
to come to you do that.
And like, I've seen this with myclients, I see this with my
clients all the time.
When they claim their spot,everything opens up.
It's some kind of magicaluniversal law that when you
accept yourself for who you are,and as cheesy as it sounds like,
(23:59):
you become almost like your ownbest advocate.
It just, everything startslining up.
Lee (24:07):
Can we talk a little about bringing your full self to work
in that context?
You know, and I've worked withpeople and particularly
underrepresented people andpeople who've been, you know,
really silenced and stifled inthese corporate toxic cultures.
I've worked with plenty ofpeople who say, I don't wanna
bring my full self.
They don't deserve my full self.
I wanna protect my full self andgive them a part of me that I'm
(24:30):
deciding to give.
How do we create space forprotection in these really
harmful systems still findingthat alignment?
Sehreen Noor Ali (24:43):
Such a good question.
I mean, I keep going back to theplaybook, like, you know, some
people that, uh, you know, mydaughter was diagnosed with
something several years ago and,um, that.
Ended up becoming a huge part ofthe narrative of my startup, but
I have never revealed herdiagnosis publicly, and I never
will.
And so I am a huge proponent ofshare what you wanna share in
(25:05):
the way that you want to shareit, because you know your
psychological safety, you neverhave to be or perform part of
you for anyone else.
And so when people s.
It, it comes to, to me, it comesdown to the self-awareness of
what you're doing.
If you're participating in asystem where you don't feel like
you can bring your full self, tome, that's fine.
(25:25):
As long as that's a choiceyou're making.
If you are making that choice,that's your choice.
Right?
Um, and then you will decide ifit gets, you know, to the point
of being toxic, then, you know,getting help.
And everyone has their agency inthat.
And I think it's part of, youknow, I.
Burnout is weird, right?
(25:46):
So like I was super burnout lastyear and I thought I wanted to
become the equivalent of like ahippie on the beach, having a
nomadic lifestyle and you know,all that stuff.
And then after I felt like I hadrest, I was like, oh, I'm back
in the game.
I am here.
You know, and I'm so glad I wentthrough that because what I
(26:06):
thought I wanted, which was tostep out of the system
completely, is actually not whatI wanted.
I just wanted as, because I'm adiplomat, I actually wanted to
go back and design it the waythat I needed, but I couldn't
see it'cause I was so burnt out.
And so for me.
I am a person that need, like Iam an entrepreneur at heart.
I cannot not be an entrepreneur.
(26:28):
So for me, going into acorporate system might have felt
like that's not enough of me.
That it, it, it's too much, it'stoo inauthentic.
But I'm still playing the game,but it's just in a way that I
feel like I can show up in a waythat lights me up.
Um, and that makes me feel likeI'm self-aware about where my
(26:48):
boundaries are too.
Lee (26:50):
This resonates so deeply because I've been talking to a
lot of.
People who are maybe gettinginto organizing or activism for
the first time.
And really this idea of like, weall have, we all have to do
something, but we have to showup in a way that feels safe and
comfortable for ourselves andthat really, you know, honors
what we feel good at and how wewant to participate.
(27:11):
And I think it's a beautifulthing.
I think this is what boundariesmeans.
Like boundaries is a word I keeptrying to figure out.
And I think what you'rearticulating is boundaries, is
knowing yourself.
Sehreen Noor Ali (27:25):
100%.
It is the most amazing tool inthe toolkit.
Lee (27:31):
Yeah.
a hard one though,
Sehreen Noor Ali (27:35):
It is hard
Lee (27:35):
this
Sehreen Noor Ali (27:36):
it.
Lee (27:36):
what you're talking about with this playbook in general
and then this idea of radical,I.
Versus diplomat.
I'm definitely on the radicalside of that and I just wanna
Sehreen Noor Ali (27:47):
Right.
Lee (27:47):
and in,
Sehreen Noor Ali (27:49):
Yeah.
Lee (27:49):
where we're seeing like such a failure, not just of
leadership, but a failure of,you know, the systems that have
been failing people in thesociety for many, many, many,
many generations.
Do you think we need orradicals?
Revolutionaries
Sehreen Noor Ali (28:10):
I think we need both.
I think I, I think I am seeing aself-awareness across verticals
really open up.
I'm seeing the same questionsand themes start to emerge,
which is, you know, some elementof space.
How do I get more space in mylife?
(28:31):
Um, how do we connect with eachother more and how do we change
things?
How do we think about thingsdifferently and where are my
people?
And I'm seeing this like, youknow, there's a sub, there's
kind of like that, what we seeon the news.
(28:52):
And then there's the.
Huge undercurrent in the subtextthat's happening.
And a lot of people are startingto break this idea of like, why
is this normal?
Why is this normal?
Why is this normal?
And because people are acrossdifferent verticals, I think the
radicals in the diplomats arestarting to get on the same
wavelength and be a little bitdifferent.
And I'll be honest, I want to bea rad.
(29:14):
I want to be a radical.
Like, there's something aboutit.
Like I love the idea of likeblowing stuff up and like
whatever.
But um, I went to a very liberalarts college and I remember my
closest friend was like, youknow, we think we're so hippie
and all this stuff, which islike everyone that we graduated
went into like medicine, bankingor something else.
And I was like, oh yeah, that'sreally funny.
(29:34):
Um.
And I was always like, oh, whata disappointment.
But I do think when I meetpeople, they are agitating in
their own space and that'sreally, really valid.
And I think a lot of us are, um,for good reason.
I.
A little bit more socialized tothe institutional side, right?
You know, the immigrantexperience, safety and a thing.
(29:55):
And we need to actually startworking with more radicals.
I think actually the opportunityis not one or the other, but how
do we actually start seeing eachother and see that there's
common ground?
Because typically people who areon, you know, radical are called
crazy and people who arediplomats are called sellouts
and like that helps nobody.
Lee (30:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And even thinking about it inthat, you know, black and white
binary, as our society is so upto do right, it creates this
distance.
And I completely agree with you.
I
Sehreen Noor Ali (30:31):
There's, there's a huge distance.
Yeah.
Lee (30:34):
Yeah.
Sehreen Noor Ali (30:34):
I see this even in my own community, Lee,
like I, in my own faithcommunity, it's really
fascinating.
There, there are youngergenerations who are holding the
older generations of which I am,I am old now.
Um, to them.
That are like you, you guys areplaying in the system.
Like what are you doing?
Why are you not agitating?
(30:55):
Why are you not speaking out onthis and why are you doing that?
And I kind of look at it likekind of an arm terror
sociologist.
And it's really interestingbecause that part of me that
wants to be a radical and I waslike, like there's also the part
of me that's like, you know,there's a history of our
community.
We had to protect ourselves.
We had to.
Better ourselves insocioeconomic, you know, in in
(31:15):
economic security.
And I laugh a little because aslike the auntie, I'm happy that
they have the privilege to beable to speak out against it.
My parents did not.
And they don't realize how manygenerations on whose shoulders
they're standing.
And so I can see this conflicton some of the Instagram posts.
(31:37):
And some people are like, whyare you doing this?
And I was like.
This is an evolution.
The fact that you can haveradicals and diplomats is a
testament to the evolution of acommunity.
And it pains me that there isdiscord, like there has to be
room for all ways to change.
And so for me, this idea ofinfluence and thought leadership
(31:59):
tends to be for the diplomats
Lee (32:01):
Mm.
Sehreen Noor Ali (32:02):
because.
I have agitated within systems.
I, I worked at the StateDepartment.
I agitated within that system.
I worked in, you know, venturebacked ecosystem.
I agi agitated in that I was amedical needs mom, you know, in
the medical system.
Like I agitate to our systems.
Like I have that playbook, youknow, and I, I think the
(32:23):
opportunity is for us to sharethe playbooks and where we're
seeing and to come together alittle bit on this.
Lee (32:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
And to start breaking down someof those, you know, status quo
barriers as our friend ChristinaBlacken talks about.
Yeah.
And you know, I've heard youtalk about the word visionary
too, and know.
What, what does that word evenmean in this context?
Do we need visionaries rightnow?
I,
Sehreen Noor Ali (32:52):
Yes.
I think it's less, I think it'sactually kind of an equal
opportunity word.
I don't think, it does not, tome it does not match like being
the top of the hill.
You know?
It doesn't, you don't have to.
It's actually, can you see theworld differently in a way that
we all need to understand?
And I think of it, you're gonnalaugh at me, but I look at it as
like a mycelium node.
(33:13):
Like I look at the world, right?
And so if one activates.
Then that energizes someone elseand there's this shared energy
and a network that can keepgrowing.
And so I think more people arevisionaries than they know.
They're not the people on theTED stage, for example.
Like I think we have this ideaand I really want people to see
themselves as people who haveearned, earned their stripes,
(33:37):
have lived experience, who havea view on the world that if they
share, can start igniting notjust their vision, but other
people's visions too.
Lee (33:44):
Wow.
And that's, you know, claimingyour spot and stepping into the
light and taking up space andall of what you're talking
about, and even changing theperception of who's a leader,
who's an expert, who's avisionary, and really taking
these words back.
Sehreen Noor Ali (34:01):
Completely because those words are all
individualistic it, it allpresumes individual achievement
and individual progress, and weare not going to figure out this
era of uncertainty.
Through individual achievement,it will only happen with each
other.
And leadership sounds that waytoo.
You have leadership developmentprograms and Well, no.
(34:24):
No.
That's not how it's, this thingis gonna work.
It's gonna happen by usactivating each other and it's
spreading.
Lee (34:31):
You have been someone who's really influenced me in terms of
feeling more comfortable to useAI and to see it as a creative
tool and what you said aboutmycelium and the unseen
connections that we all have,and whether that is.
Through our connections, ourvirtual, but even AI is almost
(34:56):
creating this mycelium, right,in a way, throughout all of us.
And how is this tool somethingthat we can leverage agitate
while it's still such anentrenched part of systems that
might be harmful or destructive?
Sehreen Noor Ali (35:15):
Yeah, I, I, I think that more people, um, need
to use it.
I think more people that arelike you and me, need to start
using it because why would weseed this to others?
Why would we make theconversation only that AI is
like a business first toolversus other things that it can
do?
(35:35):
Why wouldn't we be part of thismoment to claim it for ourselves
as well and claim it for.
What it can do for us.
And I think AI is a reallytricky term because we think
it's this only, this one thingthat it's, it makes us more
productive.
Sure.
And I'm like really good at itand I love it.
And it really does.
(35:55):
And I think there's an argumentto be made that if you are a
person who's, I'm a caregiver, Igo to a lot of doctor's
appointments for my daughter, Ineed the leverage, I need time.
Right.
So there's a lot of use caseslike that where I think people.
Can, and I hope do decide to useit for that.
But AI is also asking us to bein a relationship with a literal
artificial intelligence.
(36:16):
This is a really key point.
In 2025, it is not goinganywhere.
We're literally being asked,what does it mean to be human?
When there is a technology thatis smarter than us, what does it
mean to know ourselves?
We are holding on to ideas ofbeing human that we need to
drop.
We need to drop our obsessionwith being smart.
(36:39):
We need to drop our obsessionwith being like productive all
the time.
We need to think about thethings that, what does it mean
to then care something that AIcannot do?
How do we care for each other?
Lee (36:51):
Exactly.
Sehreen Noor Ali (36:52):
Um, how do we actually.
You know, I've had life changingconversations with ai.
That sounds really funny, butit's actually really true.
And so just two days ago atevaluate, I asked, like I had
this prompt that I borrowed forsomeone.
Um, and it said things to methat have really changed my self
(37:12):
perception.
And I showed it to a friend andI showed it to my husband and
they're like, oh my God, this iscrazy.
You know?
So there are ways for it toaugment our self knowing.
And I think we're stuck onright.
It it's beautiful.
Slightly painful, but alsobeautiful.
Lee (37:32):
you know what?
I've been supporting so manyleaders in AI for 10 years.
My clients are data scientistsand data leaders and machine
learners, and the people who'vebeen building this.
And many of my clients have, youknow, really lost the battle of
data governance and data ethicswithin their organizations as
well.
And
Sehreen Noor Ali (37:51):
Yeah.
Lee (37:52):
deeply about this and.
I've even had people find methrough chat, GPT.
I've had people tell chat, GPTwhat they're experiencing, how
they can express themselves, andI am the first thing that comes
up.
I
Sehreen Noor Ali (38:06):
How do you feel about that?
Lee (38:08):
I think it's amazing because these are some of the
most aligned clients I've evermet.
I don't know if we would've metotherwise.
Incredibly heartfelt leaders intheir individual subject matter
expertise who.
Want to lead with empathy, whowant to do this work Sehreen, I
am deeply afraid.
There was some news that cameout that open AI is not actually
(38:31):
deleting when you tell it todelete.
And they're being tasked fromthe government to be able to
produce
Sehreen Noor Ali (38:39):
Yeah,
Lee (38:40):
And so is there a limit in terms of how we should be using
this technology,
Sehreen Noor Ali (38:45):
sure.
Lee (38:45):
be telling it, and can it limit our ability to, to be
visionary?
Sehreen Noor Ali (38:52):
I, I think because I'm a realist, our
influence comes from using it.
Lee (38:58):
Hmm.
Sehreen Noor Ali (38:59):
It, it, it, I mean, we still live in a
capitalist world.
We need to use it and say whatwe want.
That is the playbook.
If you use a product and yougive feedback and you say, I'm
not gonna put up with this, thatis the playbook.
So I think we need to start fromthere.
We need to also understand theterms of service when we're
using it, and we can run thatthrough chat gpt and saying, how
(39:21):
do you use my data?
What are the settings I need todo to turn it off, et cetera.
Um.
Does it limit us to beingvisionary?
No.
You know, Lee, I'm really afraidthat good people are gonna be
left behind because we thinkabout this as a binary
situation.
We are not in a binarysituation.
(39:43):
If I could scream that onrooftops, I would scream it.
We are not in a binarysituation.
We lose if we don't start havinga relationship with this
technology.
If people of color, people withdisabilities, trans, like, if we
don't use this, we are literallygiving it away.
(40:04):
I,
Lee (40:05):
Yeah.
And being left out.
Sehreen Noor Ali (40:09):
I think worse, frankly, it's not just to being
about left out.
It's going to, it's gonna beviolent.
Lee (40:16):
Yeah.
Sehreen Noor Ali (40:16):
I don't mean to, I don't mean to like
overstate it, but this is,there's a lot at stake.
I, and even I, I don't evenwanna admit that to myself.
Frankly.
There is a lot at stake here ifpeople don't start really, I
(40:37):
don't wanna say just use it, butbe in relationship with it,
influence it.
We should be influencing.
The AI.
Lee (40:48):
There's that word again, influence.
And in order to influence, wehave to, you know, have that
alignment in ourselves.
And I really love that, theclarity of that, that inner
clarity that you talked about,because I think if more of us
had that inner clarity, we wouldbe unstoppable.
Sehreen Noor Ali (41:12):
Yeah, and the clarity and, and the ability or
desire or confidence to sharethat inner clarity because.
You and I are so fortunate toknow so many people that have
inner clarity have a very strongsense of self.
It's that it's, it's that restof it.
Will you please share it withme?
(41:34):
Will you please put your viewsout in the world?
Can I please know you that Ifeel like I'm working?
You know, I have this reallyamazing client who's created a
tremendous business that's justimpacted social connection and
sometimes I find myself askingthem to.
Please share like the playbookon how you did that.
(41:55):
Other people need to know thatplaybook because the amount of
courage it takes to knowyourself, a lot of people have
not yet developed yet.
So if you are already willing toknow yourself and, and really
say, this is who I am, you, wecan all guide each other through
this process, but we have to bewilling to share what we think,
(42:16):
especially when it's notperfect.
Lee (42:20):
And what you just said.
If, if we can have the courageto know ourselves and that I
feel like is everything, andthat's what I think.
You've been doing since waybefore you started this current
venture.
I remember the first time I satdown with you one-on-one, I
could feel that of just thiscomfort this courage to know
(42:46):
ourselves.
And I'm so thrilled that you'redoing this work right now in
this moment of helping peoplefind their spot and claim their
spot because it's really, reallyimportant.
it needs, it needs to be here inthe world.
So you so much for
Sehreen Noor Ali (43:04):
Well, likewise, I, I mean, you've been
a huge inspiration as youdeveloped your business, and I
got to see it from the earlydays, and I think that's a
testament to we need to see eachother.
Like, you have inspired me.
You have shown me that it'spossible to be your full self
(43:25):
and you can evolve and you can.
Just be and still have abusiness that can serve other
people.
And so I hope if your listenershear that, it encourages them.
Like you've been a huge exampleof like, I can do it too.
You know?
I,
Lee (43:44):
Hmm.
To see ourselves and to see eachother.
Uh, Thank you, my friend.
Thank you, Sehreen.
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