March 4, 2025 • 13 mins
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This episode is part of my initiative to provide access to important court decisions impacting employees in an easy to understand conversational format using AI. The speakers in the episode are AI generated and frankly sound great to listen to. Enjoy!
In this episode, we dive deep into the troubling case of age discrimination at Hatzell Bueller, led by an analysis of two job applicants, Dean Weintraub and Thomas Silvera. Despite their qualifications—Weintraub at 65 with over three decades of experience and Silvera at 58 with notable prior engagement with the company—both were met with questionable hiring practices that underscore the issue of age bias prevalent in today's job market.
From explicit remarks about being "too old" to subtle digs in interviews, this episode uncovers how age can unjustly hinder career opportunities. We engage with the findings of the EEOC's complaint, the defense of Hatzell Bueller, and explore the implications of the settled case that includes significant measures for change albeit without admission of guilt.
Listeners will learn about red flags to look for in hiring practices, patterns indicative of systemic age bias, and the discussion on how this bias impacts not just individuals but the economy at large. This introspective conversation addresses the critical cultural shift needed in recognizing the value of experience, fostering an inclusive workplace for all ages, and understanding actionable steps to challenge age-related discrimination.
On July 19, 2024, the EEOC entered into a consent decree with the employer to settle the case for $500,000. Clearly the company did something wrong and wanted to avoid a protracted litigation and a higher judgment by the court or a jury.
Join the conversation today, and let’s work together to create a culture in which everyone, regardless of age, feels valued and respected in their professional journey. Subscribe, share, and leave a review to support the movement against workplace discrimination!
Show Notes:
EEOC Press Release Announcing $500,000 Settlement
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For more information, please contact our employment attorneys at Carey & Associates, P.C. at 203-255-4150, www.capclaw.com.
Disclaimer: For educational use only, not intended to be legal advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back everyone .
Today we're going to be takinga deep dive into a legal case
about age discrimination atHatzell Bueller, a commercial
electrical contractor.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Ooh, that sounds juicy.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
It is.
It's pretty fascinating.
We've got a press release fromthe EEOC announcing a settlement
and the original complaint thatthey filed.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh, so we get the official word.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah, and we also have Hatzell Bueller's response
to the complaint, so we can hearboth sides of the story.
I'm really curious to see whatthis case tells us about age
discrimination in hiring overall.
You know beyond just thespecifics of this one case.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, like, how common is this kind of thing
really, and what can people doif they think they're being
discriminated against because oftheir age?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Exactly.
So let's jump in.
The case focuses on Hadsall andBuehler's New Jersey branch,
where Wes Hallow Jr was the VPand branch manager.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
And just to clarify, hadsall and Buehler is a
commercial electrical contractorright.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Right.
They do electrical work forcommercial buildings.
So the alleged discriminationhappened while they were hiring
for project manager andestimator positions.
One of the people who appliedwas Dean Weintraub.
He was 65 at the time and hadmore than 32 years of experience
Super qualified.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Wow, yeah, on paper it sounds like he'd be a perfect
fit.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Right, but according to the EEOC's complaint, when a
recruiter reached out toWeintraub about the job, howell
told the recruiter thatWeintraub was too old.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Too old.
Huh, that's pretty blatant.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, and he even said that Weintraub was outside
of their ideal age range, whichwas supposedly 30 to 45.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Wow, okay, so they had like a specific number in
mind.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
It seems that way.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And it makes you wonder about the recruiter's
role in all of this, too, likeare they just following orders,
or should they be pushing backagainst these kinds of requests?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
That's a really good point.
I mean, how much power dorecruiters really have in those
situations?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
It's a tough spot for them to be in, for sure, and it
gets even more complicated whenyou consider another applicant,
thomas Silvera.
He was 58, with over 12 yearsof experience.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
But here's the thing he had actually been offered a
job at Hassel and Bueller before.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Really Under different management, though I'm
guessing.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
You got it, so it seems like something definitely
changed with this new manager.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That's a big red flag , so what?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
happened with Silvera this time around?
Well, according to thecomplaint, Howell sent an email
to another employee and wasspeculating about Silvera's age
based on his resume.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Just from his resume.
That's pretty presumptuous.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, and then during Silvera's age.
Based on his resume Just fromhis resume, that's pretty
presumptuous yeah, and thenduring Silvera's interview he
was asked about his retirementplans.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Hmm, that's often a sign that age is a factor in
their decision making.
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
And to make things even fishier, Howell gave
different explanations for whySilvera was rejected.
He told the recruiter thatSilvera's clothing wasn't
presentable.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oh wow Really.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
But then he told the EEOC that Sylvera didn't have
the right experience.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So like which one was it?
It seems like he was justmaking stuff up.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Right, very suspicious.
So that's the EEOC side of thestory.
Now let's hear what Hatzell andBuehler had to say in their
defense.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
OK, so how did they respond to all of this?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Well, unsurprisingly, in their response to the
complaint, they denied all theallegations of age
discrimination.
No surprise there.
Their main argument was thatthe EEOC hadn't properly
followed what's called theconciliation process.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I'm not a lawyer.
What does that even mean?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Basically, it's a step where the EEOC tries to
help both sides reach asettlement before going to court
.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh, so like a mediation kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Exactly.
It's a way to resolve thingsmore informally and save
everyone time and money.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So Hatzell and Buehler was saying that the EEOC
didn't try hard enough tosettle things before filing the
complaint.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Right, and that's a pretty common legal tactic, but
you know it doesn't actuallyaddress whether discrimination
happened or not.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, it's more of a technicality.
It doesn't really get to theheart of the matter.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Besides that technicality, they also said
that any actions they took werebased on legitimate,
non-discriminatory reasons.
Right, so they're saying therewere other reasons why they
didn't hire these guys Exactly.
But here's the interesting partEven though they denied the
allegations, they still agreedto a settlement with the EEOC.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Interesting, so how much did they end up paying?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
They paid $500,000 without admitting any liability,
of course.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Half a million dollars.
That's not nothing.
It makes you wonder if theywere worried about losing the
case.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It definitely raises some eyebrows.
And it wasn't just about themoney.
The settlement also includedwhat's called equitable relief.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Equitable relief.
What's that?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So it's basically about making things right beyond
just financial compensation.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So like preventing future discrimination.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Exactly, and in this case the equitable relief was
pretty serious.
Wes Howell, the branch manager,was barred from making any
final hiring decisions forproject manager and estimator
positions.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Wow, they basically took away his hiring power.
That's a pretty big deal.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
It shows they were taking the allegations seriously
, but it also makes you wonderis that enough?
Will removing one person reallychange the company culture, or
is there something deeper goingon?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
It's a good question.
Maybe we'll find out more inthe next part of our deep dive.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, there's definitely a lot more to unpack.
We'll be back soon to discussthe larger implications of this
case and what it tells us aboutage discrimination in the
workplace as a whole.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
I think this case is a good example of how age
discrimination is still aproblem, even though we have
laws to protect workers.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
It's kind of sad, right, like you'd think
experience would be morevaluable these days.
So how does this bias usuallyshow up in hiring?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well, like we saw with Dean Weintraub, sometimes
it's really obvious.
They just straight up tell youyou're too old, ouch.
But a lot of times it's waymore subtle.
They'll use code words liketalking about cultural fit or
wanting someone with freshperspectives.
You know just ways to getaround saying they want someone
younger.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It's like they're trying to be polite about it,
but the message is still clear.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Right, and it can be really hard to prove that's
what's happening.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So what can you do, Like?
How do you actually prove thatthey're discriminated against
you because of your age?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
It's tough, but you can look for patterns, like if a
company always seems to chooseyounger people, even when older
candidates have similar skillsand experience.
That could be a sign.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
So it's not just about one individual case, it's
about the overall trend.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Exactly, you got to look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
This settlement with Hatzell and Buehler included all
those extra requirements likeanti-discrimination policies and
training and reporting to theEEOC.
Do you think that stuffactually makes a difference?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I mean it can, but it really depends on if they
actually follow through.
A policy is just words on paperif nobody takes it seriously.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
So it's got to be more than just checking boxes.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
For sure.
The training needs to be morethan just a one-time thing, and
it needs to really make peoplethink about their own biases
about age.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
So it's about actually changing the way people
think, not just telling themwhat to say.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Exactly.
Companies need to create aculture where age is just a
number, not a deal breaker.
They need to value theexperience and knowledge that
older workers bring.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And maybe be a bit more flexible with work
arrangements too right, Becauseolder workers might have
different needs.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Absolutely.
It's about recognizing thateveryone has something unique to
offer, regardless of their age.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It seems like a lot of companies are missing out by
not taking advantage of thattalent pool.
What are some of the biggerimpacts of age discrimination,
though, like for individuals andfor society as a whole?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well for the person being discriminated against, it
can be really tough.
It can cause financial problems, lower self-esteem and even
health issues Awful and it canalso force people to delay
retirement, which isn't fair tothem, and it also makes it
harder for younger people to getjobs.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, it's like a chain reaction.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And for society as a whole.
Age discrimination is just ahuge waste of potential.
We're living longer andhealthier lives, but we're not
using the skills and experienceof older workers.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Which doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Right, it hurts everyone in the long run.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So what can we do about it?
Yeah, I mean, we already havelaws, but it's obviously not
enough.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, the laws are a good start, but we need to do
more.
We need to make sure those lawsare actually being enforced,
and that the EEOC has theresources to investigate these
cases, hold companiesaccountable Exactly, and we need
to raise awareness about thisissue.
Both employers and workers needto understand what age
discrimination is and how torecognize it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So people need to know their rights and feel
comfortable speaking up ifsomething's not right it.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So people need to know their rights and feel
comfortable speaking up ifsomething's not right Absolutely
, and we need to encouragecompanies to create workplaces
where people of all ages canthrive you know, promoting
mentorship programs and thingslike that.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
So basically, creating a culture where
everyone feels valued andrespected, no matter how old
they are.
Exactly that's the goal.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
This case also made me think about the role of
recruiters.
What can they do to make surethey're not contributing to the
problem?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Recruiters have a lot of power.
They need to be aware of theirown biases and make sure they're
not screening out oldercandidates just because of their
age.
They should be actively lookingfor diverse candidates,
including older workers.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So it's about being proactive and making a conscious
effort to be inclusive.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Right, it's about recognizing that talent comes in
all ages.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
This has been really eye-opening.
I think a lot of people don'teven realize how common age
discrimination is.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
It's often a hidden problem, but it has real
consequences and by talkingabout it and raising awareness
we can start to change things.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I agree it's time to start having these conversations
and holding each otheraccountable.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Absolutely.
What can our listeners do ifthey think they might be
experiencing age discriminationin their own job searches?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
First thing is document everything, keep track
of any interactions, emails, jobpostings, anything that might
be useful as evidence.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So write it all down.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
And, if you feel comfortable, you can try talking
to the employer or recruiterdirectly about your concerns.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So don't be afraid to speak up.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
And if you feel like you've been discriminated
against, you can file acomplaint with the EEOC.
There are also organizationsthat can help you understand
your rights and provide legalsupport.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So know that you're not alone and there are
resources available to help.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
That's right, you have options.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
This has been a really insightful discussion.
I think it's made me a lot moreaware of this issue.
What are some final takeawaysyou'd like to leave our
listeners with today?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I think one of the biggest things to remember is
that age discrimination doesn'tjust happen during the hiring
process.
Yeah, that's true.
It can pop up at any point inyour career, Right like with
promotions or trainingopportunities or even just how
you're treated day to day.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
It's like sometimes people just assume that older
workers aren't as capable or asinterested in learning new
things.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, and those stereotypes can be really
damaging.
It can make people feel likethey're being pushed out or
overlooked just because of theirage.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
This whole deep dive has really got me thinking about
how I can be more aware ofthose biases, not just in my own
head, but also like in how Iinteract with people at work.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I think that's so important.
We all have these unconsciousbiases that we might not even
realize, and the first step isjust acknowledging that they
exist.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah.
And then we can start toquestion those assumptions Like
why do I think this person isn'tright for the job, or why am I
not giving them this opportunity?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Right, and it's not always easy to confront those
biases, but it's important totry.
We need to be willing tochallenge ourselves and each
other.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
And this case also made me think about how
important it is to have a goodcompany culture.
It's not enough to just havepolicies on paper.
You need to create anenvironment where everyone feels
valued and respected,regardless of their age.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Absolutely.
A truly inclusive workplacerecognizes that everyone has
something unique to offer andthat diversity of experience and
perspectives makes a companystronger.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
So I guess the big question is how do we actually
get there, how do we create thatkind of culture shift?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It takes a lot of work and it's not something that
happens overnight, but I thinkthe first step is just starting
the conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, like talking about these issues, making sure
people are aware of them.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
And then it's about taking action.
Leaders need to set the toneand create a space where people
feel safe sticking up aboutthese things, and everyone needs
to be willing to challengetheir own biases and call out
discrimination when they see it.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
It sounds like it's going to take a lot of effort
from everyone involved.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It will, but I think it's worth it.
Creating a more equitable andinclusive workplace benefits
everyone.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
I completely agree.
We all deserve to feel valuedand respected at work Exactly
Well.
This has been an incredibledeep dive.
Thank you so much for sharingyour expertise with us today.
I think we've all learned a lot.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
It's been my pleasure .
These are importantconversations to have.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
And to our listeners.
Thank you for joining us onthis deep dive into age
discrimination.
We hope it's given you somethings to think about.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And we encourage you to keep learning, keep
questioning and keep pushing fora better world.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's a great note to end on.
Until next time.
Welcome back everyone .
Today we're going to be takinga deep dive into a legal case
about age discrimination atHatzell Bueller, a commercial
electrical contractor.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Ooh, that sounds juicy.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
It is.
It's pretty fascinating.
We've got a press release fromthe EEOC announcing a settlement
and the original complaint thatthey filed.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh, so we get the official word.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah, and we also have Hatzell Bueller's response
to the complaint, so we can hearboth sides of the story.
I'm really curious to see whatthis case tells us about age
discrimination in hiring overall.
You know beyond just thespecifics of this one case.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, like, how common is this kind of thing
really, and what can people doif they think they're being
discriminated against because oftheir age?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Exactly.
So let's jump in.
The case focuses on Hadsall andBuehler's New Jersey branch,
where Wes Hallow Jr was the VPand branch manager.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
And just to clarify, hadsall and Buehler is a
commercial electrical contractorright.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Right.
They do electrical work forcommercial buildings.
So the alleged discriminationhappened while they were hiring
for project manager andestimator positions.
One of the people who appliedwas Dean Weintraub.
He was 65 at the time and hadmore than 32 years of experience
Super qualified.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Wow, yeah, on paper it sounds like he'd be a perfect
fit.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Right, but according to the EEOC's complaint, when a
recruiter reached out toWeintraub about the job, howell
told the recruiter thatWeintraub was too old.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Too old.
Huh, that's pretty blatant.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, and he even said that Weintraub was outside
of their ideal age range, whichwas supposedly 30 to 45.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Wow, okay, so they had like a specific number in
mind.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
It seems that way.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And it makes you wonder about the recruiter's
role in all of this, too, likeare they just following orders,
or should they be pushing backagainst these kinds of requests?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
That's a really good point.
I mean, how much power dorecruiters really have in those
situations?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
It's a tough spot for them to be in, for sure, and it
gets even more complicated whenyou consider another applicant,
thomas Silvera.
He was 58, with over 12 yearsof experience.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
But here's the thing he had actually been offered a
job at Hassel and Bueller before.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Really Under different management, though I'm
guessing.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
You got it, so it seems like something definitely
changed with this new manager.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That's a big red flag , so what?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
happened with Silvera this time around?
Well, according to thecomplaint, Howell sent an email
to another employee and wasspeculating about Silvera's age
based on his resume.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Just from his resume.
That's pretty presumptuous.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, and then during Silvera's age.
Based on his resume Just fromhis resume, that's pretty
presumptuous yeah, and thenduring Silvera's interview he
was asked about his retirementplans.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Hmm, that's often a sign that age is a factor in
their decision making.
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
And to make things even fishier, Howell gave
different explanations for whySilvera was rejected.
He told the recruiter thatSilvera's clothing wasn't
presentable.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oh wow Really.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
But then he told the EEOC that Sylvera didn't have
the right experience.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So like which one was it?
It seems like he was justmaking stuff up.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Right, very suspicious.
So that's the EEOC side of thestory.
Now let's hear what Hatzell andBuehler had to say in their
defense.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
OK, so how did they respond to all of this?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Well, unsurprisingly, in their response to the
complaint, they denied all theallegations of age
discrimination.
No surprise there.
Their main argument was thatthe EEOC hadn't properly
followed what's called theconciliation process.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I'm not a lawyer.
What does that even mean?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Basically, it's a step where the EEOC tries to
help both sides reach asettlement before going to court
.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh, so like a mediation kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Exactly.
It's a way to resolve thingsmore informally and save
everyone time and money.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So Hatzell and Buehler was saying that the EEOC
didn't try hard enough tosettle things before filing the
complaint.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Right, and that's a pretty common legal tactic, but
you know it doesn't actuallyaddress whether discrimination
happened or not.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, it's more of a technicality.
It doesn't really get to theheart of the matter.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Besides that technicality, they also said
that any actions they took werebased on legitimate,
non-discriminatory reasons.
Right, so they're saying therewere other reasons why they
didn't hire these guys Exactly.
But here's the interesting partEven though they denied the
allegations, they still agreedto a settlement with the EEOC.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Interesting, so how much did they end up paying?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
They paid $500,000 without admitting any liability,
of course.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Half a million dollars.
That's not nothing.
It makes you wonder if theywere worried about losing the
case.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It definitely raises some eyebrows.
And it wasn't just about themoney.
The settlement also includedwhat's called equitable relief.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Equitable relief.
What's that?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So it's basically about making things right beyond
just financial compensation.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So like preventing future discrimination.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Exactly, and in this case the equitable relief was
pretty serious.
Wes Howell, the branch manager,was barred from making any
final hiring decisions forproject manager and estimator
positions.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Wow, they basically took away his hiring power.
That's a pretty big deal.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
It shows they were taking the allegations seriously
, but it also makes you wonderis that enough?
Will removing one person reallychange the company culture, or
is there something deeper goingon?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
It's a good question.
Maybe we'll find out more inthe next part of our deep dive.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, there's definitely a lot more to unpack.
We'll be back soon to discussthe larger implications of this
case and what it tells us aboutage discrimination in the
workplace as a whole.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
I think this case is a good example of how age
discrimination is still aproblem, even though we have
laws to protect workers.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
It's kind of sad, right, like you'd think
experience would be morevaluable these days.
So how does this bias usuallyshow up in hiring?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well, like we saw with Dean Weintraub, sometimes
it's really obvious.
They just straight up tell youyou're too old, ouch.
But a lot of times it's waymore subtle.
They'll use code words liketalking about cultural fit or
wanting someone with freshperspectives.
You know just ways to getaround saying they want someone
younger.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It's like they're trying to be polite about it,
but the message is still clear.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Right, and it can be really hard to prove that's
what's happening.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So what can you do, Like?
How do you actually prove thatthey're discriminated against
you because of your age?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
It's tough, but you can look for patterns, like if a
company always seems to chooseyounger people, even when older
candidates have similar skillsand experience.
That could be a sign.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
So it's not just about one individual case, it's
about the overall trend.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Exactly, you got to look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
This settlement with Hatzell and Buehler included all
those extra requirements likeanti-discrimination policies and
training and reporting to theEEOC.
Do you think that stuffactually makes a difference?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I mean it can, but it really depends on if they
actually follow through.
A policy is just words on paperif nobody takes it seriously.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
So it's got to be more than just checking boxes.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
For sure.
The training needs to be morethan just a one-time thing, and
it needs to really make peoplethink about their own biases
about age.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
So it's about actually changing the way people
think, not just telling themwhat to say.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Exactly.
Companies need to create aculture where age is just a
number, not a deal breaker.
They need to value theexperience and knowledge that
older workers bring.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And maybe be a bit more flexible with work
arrangements too right, Becauseolder workers might have
different needs.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Absolutely.
It's about recognizing thateveryone has something unique to
offer, regardless of their age.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It seems like a lot of companies are missing out by
not taking advantage of thattalent pool.
What are some of the biggerimpacts of age discrimination,
though, like for individuals andfor society as a whole?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well for the person being discriminated against, it
can be really tough.
It can cause financial problems, lower self-esteem and even
health issues Awful and it canalso force people to delay
retirement, which isn't fair tothem, and it also makes it
harder for younger people to getjobs.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, it's like a chain reaction.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And for society as a whole.
Age discrimination is just ahuge waste of potential.
We're living longer andhealthier lives, but we're not
using the skills and experienceof older workers.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Which doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Right, it hurts everyone in the long run.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So what can we do about it?
Yeah, I mean, we already havelaws, but it's obviously not
enough.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, the laws are a good start, but we need to do
more.
We need to make sure those lawsare actually being enforced,
and that the EEOC has theresources to investigate these
cases, hold companiesaccountable Exactly, and we need
to raise awareness about thisissue.
Both employers and workers needto understand what age
discrimination is and how torecognize it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So people need to know their rights and feel
comfortable speaking up ifsomething's not right it.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So people need to know their rights and feel
comfortable speaking up ifsomething's not right Absolutely
, and we need to encouragecompanies to create workplaces
where people of all ages canthrive you know, promoting
mentorship programs and thingslike that.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
So basically, creating a culture where
everyone feels valued andrespected, no matter how old
they are.
Exactly that's the goal.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
This case also made me think about the role of
recruiters.
What can they do to make surethey're not contributing to the
problem?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Recruiters have a lot of power.
They need to be aware of theirown biases and make sure they're
not screening out oldercandidates just because of their
age.
They should be actively lookingfor diverse candidates,
including older workers.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So it's about being proactive and making a conscious
effort to be inclusive.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Right, it's about recognizing that talent comes in
all ages.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
This has been really eye-opening.
I think a lot of people don'teven realize how common age
discrimination is.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
It's often a hidden problem, but it has real
consequences and by talkingabout it and raising awareness
we can start to change things.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I agree it's time to start having these conversations
and holding each otheraccountable.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Absolutely.
What can our listeners do ifthey think they might be
experiencing age discriminationin their own job searches?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
First thing is document everything, keep track
of any interactions, emails, jobpostings, anything that might
be useful as evidence.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So write it all down.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
And, if you feel comfortable, you can try talking
to the employer or recruiterdirectly about your concerns.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So don't be afraid to speak up.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
And if you feel like you've been discriminated
against, you can file acomplaint with the EEOC.
There are also organizationsthat can help you understand
your rights and provide legalsupport.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So know that you're not alone and there are
resources available to help.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
That's right, you have options.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
This has been a really insightful discussion.
I think it's made me a lot moreaware of this issue.
What are some final takeawaysyou'd like to leave our
listeners with today?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I think one of the biggest things to remember is
that age discrimination doesn'tjust happen during the hiring
process.
Yeah, that's true.
It can pop up at any point inyour career, Right like with
promotions or trainingopportunities or even just how
you're treated day to day.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
It's like sometimes people just assume that older
workers aren't as capable or asinterested in learning new
things.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, and those stereotypes can be really
damaging.
It can make people feel likethey're being pushed out or
overlooked just because of theirage.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
This whole deep dive has really got me thinking about
how I can be more aware ofthose biases, not just in my own
head, but also like in how Iinteract with people at work.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I think that's so important.
We all have these unconsciousbiases that we might not even
realize, and the first step isjust acknowledging that they
exist.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah.
And then we can start toquestion those assumptions Like
why do I think this person isn'tright for the job, or why am I
not giving them this opportunity?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Right, and it's not always easy to confront those
biases, but it's important totry.
We need to be willing tochallenge ourselves and each
other.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
And this case also made me think about how
important it is to have a goodcompany culture.
It's not enough to just havepolicies on paper.
You need to create anenvironment where everyone feels
valued and respected,regardless of their age.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Absolutely.
A truly inclusive workplacerecognizes that everyone has
something unique to offer andthat diversity of experience and
perspectives makes a companystronger.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
So I guess the big question is how do we actually
get there, how do we create thatkind of culture shift?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It takes a lot of work and it's not something that
happens overnight, but I thinkthe first step is just starting
the conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, like talking about these issues, making sure
people are aware of them.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
And then it's about taking action.
Leaders need to set the toneand create a space where people
feel safe sticking up aboutthese things, and everyone needs
to be willing to challengetheir own biases and call out
discrimination when they see it.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
It sounds like it's going to take a lot of effort
from everyone involved.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It will, but I think it's worth it.
Creating a more equitable andinclusive workplace benefits
everyone.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
I completely agree.
We all deserve to feel valuedand respected at work Exactly
Well.
This has been an incredibledeep dive.
Thank you so much for sharingyour expertise with us today.
I think we've all learned a lot.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
It's been my pleasure .
These are importantconversations to have.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
And to our listeners.
Thank you for joining us onthis deep dive into age
discrimination.
We hope it's given you somethings to think about.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And we encourage you to keep learning, keep
questioning and keep pushing fora better world.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's a great note to end on.
Until next time.
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