February 2, 2025 • 55 mins
Hi!! I would love to hear from you!
Join us for an empowering discussion on microdosing, burnout, and holistic healing with Micah Walker. We explore how reshaping our relationship with mental health can lead to profound transformations for women, empowering them to reclaim their creativity and community.
• Micah’s journey from nursing to holistic coaching
• The role of microdosing in mental health and neuroplasticity
• Systemic issues in healthcare contributing to nurse burnout
• Importance of community-building among nurse coaches
• Inner child work as a tool for self-discovery and healing
• Practical stress management techniques for busy professionals
• Call for collective healing and empowerment within women's networks
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome, ladies.
This is Empowered Ease, thepodcast where we challenge the
patriarchy by empowering womento take control of their health,
mind, body and spirit.
My name is Jen Olinger.
I'm a holistic coach, founderof the Moonflower Collective and
a critical care nurse.
Join me each week as Iinterview healers, health
(00:23):
practitioners and women like youwhile they share their
inspiring stories and theirunique approaches to women's
health and empowerment.
So like and subscribe so younever miss an episode and follow
along as we learn to step intoour power and embrace a life of
ease.
Okay, all right, welcome,welcome.
(00:58):
So my guest today is MicahWalker.
She does a lot of interestingthings and Micah and I actually
know each other.
We went through our holisticnurse coach program together.
So welcome, Micah, I'm so happyyou're here.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'm stoked.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
Thanks for having me on Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So, Micah, you are a coach microdosing and you coach
new nurses starting theirpractice in holistic coaching.
Tell me a little about that?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh my goodness, doing all kinds of stuff In holistic
coaching.
Tell me a little about that.
Oh my goodness, doing all kindsof stuff.
Yeah, I went through the nursecoach collective and decided,
yeah, we did, it was.
It was a cool launch pad for me, I think, to open the world up
a little bit to what waspossible as a nurse, and I was
really burnt out.
I was like super drained, verylike kind of having those
(01:46):
thoughts of like I don't knowhow I can keep doing this,
wonder what else I can do withmy career, and so I decided to
go the coaching route.
Since then have gone intomicrodosing, mentorship, where I
help other people integratemicrodosing and deep
transformational mindset work,mostly working with
entrepreneurs and other businessowners to overcome mental
(02:08):
health challenges holistically,and then more recently shifted
to some business strategy.
So I've been helping othercompanies and business owners
with building out communitiesonline and creating communities
that can then be monetized fortheir business, and started
working with nurses in thatrealm as well.
It's been really fun.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Awesome.
Well, I wanted to have you ontoday because I microdose myself
.
It has improved my life, and Idon't even know how many ways,
and also I'm a nurse coach.
There's a lot to relate to hereand you're doing some really
powerful, powerful things.
But tell me, like, what drewyou to micro dosing?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I guess it's kind of twofold for me.
The first thing that I think ofis just obviously my own
personal experience working withpsychedelics and having my.
I felt like it opened up mymind and consciousness in ways
that like nothing else in mylife has my mind and
consciousness in ways that likenothing else in my life has, and
(03:09):
in accelerated ways like likethings that have surfaced for me
and things that I've been ableto process and navigate and move
through have been so much likefaster working with psychedelics
than like any traditionalmodality of overcoming different
mental health challenges.
And so I think because of mypersonal experience and working
(03:31):
with those psychedelics, Ireally wanted to figure out ways
I could bring that intocoaching containers.
I guess the other side of thecoin is just the research that
has been coming out around theuse of psychedelics in these
spaces has been extraordinary,like there's plenty of research
now around the efficacy ofpsychedelics and treating
(03:52):
different mental healthdisorders has like surpassed the
like, surpasses anunderstatement but has surpassed
the efficacy of traditionalantidepressants and anti-anxiety
meds and things like that.
So that's been intriguing to meas well that, like some of
these traditional ways thatwe've approached these different
mental health challenges arenot actually nearly as effective
(04:16):
as these other options that wehave.
And I'm you know I've beencurious, like why aren't we
talking about this other stuffif it's continuously showing
time and time again that it'smore effective, that it's safer,
that it has less side effects?
I mean, there's a lot ofbenefits there which I'm sure we
will go more into.
But I think those are kind ofthe main reasons, the twofold of
(04:38):
like I've had my own experienceand also I'm seeing so much
come out in the research.
That's drawing me to it in alot of ways.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Oh my gosh, I love that so personally with just
with micro dosing and honestly,like just messing around as a
younger person taking mushrooms,yeah, but I honestly
experienced some very powerful,powerful shifts from those times
that I know improved my life.
And there was nothing noresearch back then, but I knew
(05:10):
back then there was something toit and now that there's, now
that it's, you can access it andyou can use it in these like
intentional ways, I've benefitedfrom it even more.
But I think that most of thebenefits I've had have been in.
So I I used to work in mentalhealth.
(05:30):
I worked with troubled teensbefore I ever became a nurse and
then worked in the healthcare's version of mental health
for a year, which was a joke,but so it's something I'm really
passionate about, yeah, so tellme more.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, I'm in the same boat.
I remember I was working in apsych unit pretty soon before I
ended up leaving bedsidealtogether.
I was working as a float nurse,so I was kind of just sent
wherever they needed me at thetime and I would every once in a
while get sent to the psychunit.
And I remember, like, sittingin the psych unit and like first
(06:14):
of all, the news was on and itwas feeding these people like
the worst information.
I'm like this is crazy.
Well, and then they would also,they would also talk to them
about like world news.
They would be like, all right,so here are updates for today.
And then they'd read throughand I'm like anxiety provoking,
(06:34):
yeah, like what we feed people,what we put in people into their
minds and into their bodies andmakes a huge impact.
And then I'm looking at theirfood right, I'm looking at the
food that's in front of me.
I remember that and I'm likewe're here to try to help these
people overcome these differentmental health challenges, but
(06:57):
what we're feeding them, bothmentally and literally, what
we're feeding them, does not atall communicate that we're
trying to help them, like not asingle bit.
And I remember just thinking Iactually started writing in my
notebook like my thoughts that Iwas having that day, like just
how frustrated I was.
(07:19):
And you know, you go throughtheir medication regimen and
they're on all this stuff.
And then you're reading throughthese doctor's notes that are
like, well, this medication madethem X, y and Z.
So we're switching into thismedication or we're adding this
medication to help with the sideeffects of this medication, and
I'm just like what are we doing?
(07:40):
This is bananas.
Doing this is bananas.
So I was quite frustrated withthe healthcare system, not just
in the mental health space, buttruly the healthcare system
overall was very frustrating tome and I was out of place.
I was no longer feeling like Icould participate in it with my
heart in it anymore.
Like that, my soul and my heartwas like slowly taking these
(08:05):
steps back.
I'm just like I don't know, Idon't know, I don't know if I'm
in this anymore, and so I thinkfor me a lot of it came from
like feeling really misaligned,like I felt really misaligned in
healthcare when I finallydecided to move away from
bedside.
It was like a little whisperthat turned into like a scream
(08:29):
that I could no longer ignore.
It's like you first kind of getthat nudge and it's like, hey,
you're not like super lovingthis and it's like, okay, I
could ignore that.
And then it gets a littlelouder and it's like, hey,
you're like not loving this andit's also not the way that you
want to help people.
And then the voice becomes astern voice and then eventually
(08:52):
it's like screaming at you whereyou cannot actually ignore it
anymore.
And I got to that place whereit was like all right, I can't
ignore it.
I got to do something else.
I got to figure it out, becauseI am showing up without my
heart in it, without feelinglike I'm in nursing.
For the thing that I started waslike I guess the intention that
(09:13):
I started with was I wanted tohelp people heal and I wanted to
participate in that gift andtransformation.
And I was like that's not whatwe're doing here.
It's just not what it's set upfor, like it's.
It's a system that's not set upto get people to a place they
never need need us or need itagain.
The system is set up so thatpeople stay and remain dependent
(09:37):
on it forever.
It's a business.
It's a business.
You got to keep the customers.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Oh, go ahead as a critical care nurse like, oh my
gosh, I went into it because Ibelieve in the.
I'm a nurse, so the nursingmodel is patient forward, right.
Holistic, right.
We believe in that.
The medical model is symptomsbackwards.
That is a model that works fora lot of acute care situations
and that's what I went intobeing a critical care nurse
(10:04):
thinking I was going to do.
And, holy cow, that's about 15%of what I do and the rest of
what I do is manage chronicillnesses.
That all could be preventedwith education and mental health
care.
Yeah, so what are the mosteffective way?
Or I guess what is microdosingthe most effective way?
Or I guess what are the what ismicrodosing the most effective
(10:25):
in in that, in the mental healthspace.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, so a lot of the things that we've seen come out
around the use of psilocybin ingeneral, there's not a lot of
research.
I do want to preface whatthere's not nearly as much
research in the microdosingspace as in larger doses spaces.
So I want to be transparentabout that, that we still need a
(10:50):
lot of research to come outaround microdosing.
There are some, but it is kindof hard to, it's hard to study,
it's hard to especially, youknow, with the different
regulations that are on variousforms of plant medicine.
The studies that have been donearound psilocybin are generally
(11:14):
with larger doses and whatwe've seen is that people are
having depression and anxietysymptoms just plummet after
these large dose ceremonies orexperiences or journeys,
whatever you want to call that.
And what we're finding now toois that because microdosing or
(11:35):
psilocybin in general has theability to increase
neuroplasticity, so our brain'sability to change over time,
that we can actually create newnetworks, new connections, new
patterns through theintroduction of this compound,
even in small doses over time,and those changes may be more
(11:57):
subtle and spread out, butthey're still happening.
And so because it is increasingour brain's receptiveness to
change, we can introducedifferent mindset tools and
techniques to begin to shiftdifferent ways of thinking,
different ways of seeingourselves and the world around
us, different ways of processingtrauma, all kinds of stuff like
(12:18):
that.
So depression is a huge onethat it's been effective in
Anxiety as well is a huge onethat it's been effective in
anxiety as well.
In PTSD there's been a lotthat's come out around PTSD
people really being able to havea different lens that they're
seeing their trauma through.
And I think a lot of that isjust the result of getting into
a more neuroplastic state andmaking new connections and new
(12:40):
neural pathways in the brain.
Because as we grow older, weget solidified into these
programs, like however we think,however we operate, whatever
patterns we're in, they get kindof like stuck in us.
The older that we get and a lotof that is because of the neuro
changes that we're goingthrough.
(13:01):
As we age, we get more and moresolidified into those patterns
and pathways and connections.
So often when we need to learnsomething new, we have to
introduce something that allowsour brains to get into a state
it's ready to receive somethingnew.
When you're younger, you don'tneed that because your brain is
so neuroplastic, it's soreceptive to any learning, to
(13:22):
any change.
That's why it's so easy forchildren to learn a new language
or to pick up on like thesecrazy things that it would be
almost impossible to do as anadult.
And you have to work 10 timesharder to learn the same things
as an adult.
And it's because of the waysthat our brain changes.
In that way we just aren't asreceptive to those new patterns,
(13:43):
those new changes, those newways of thinking.
So microdosing has been a waythat I've kind of allowed people
to have something that, whilethey're incorporating some deep
transformational minds at workto change their patterns, to
change their ways of thinking,they're in a state they're more
receptive to that new stuff thatwe're introducing.
(14:03):
So that's why I love it, that'swhy I think it's powerful and
that's the stuff that it's beenable to help people with so far.
It's been really cool.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
That is really awesome.
I love it too.
I find it helps me process alot of my childhood stuff.
I find it also helps me a lotwith creativity as I take on
like new endeavors and step intonew roles.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Microdosing has helped me significantly break
through the blocks that come up,because they're just I feel
like I still have them, but Iget through them so much quicker
when I use microdosing yeah,and that's like again, that's
like the in the enhancedneuroplasticity, like our
creativity is from our brain,getting like opened up to the
(14:47):
world, getting opened up to newperspectives and new ways of
looking at things.
But it's hard to kind of get inthat state as an adult when you
have been hardwired into theseways of looking at the world,
ways of looking at yourself,ways of looking at your
relationships, your past, yourtrauma, that it's kind of all in
(15:08):
one box like creativity in thesense of like art and painting
and music and things like that,and creativity in the sense of
new ways of approaching yourpast, new ways of approaching
your relationships.
Like to me that's allcreativity because it's
introducing something new,something different, something
that's out of the box for you.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
You seem like a very creative person, Micah.
What are some other creativethings you're into Tell?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
me.
Well, I do love playing music,Like I play guitar, I sing.
I used to write music a lot andI was talking about this
recently.
I haven't written as many songsand things like that lately
I've been, and there's reasonsfor that too.
As we get older, when we get inlike routine, it actually also
(15:58):
prevents our creativity fromsurfacing.
And I think when I I guess whenI started my career, that's
when I noticed I wasn't writingas much anymore, when I was like
in a full blown career, showingup at work doing the adulting
thing but that's something I wasrecently talking about that I
want to get back into is likewriting music.
(16:19):
So that's, that's the primaryway that I express myself
creatively.
I'm not really like artistic inthe sense of I don't really
paint or draw or anything likethat.
My fiance does a lot of thatand is incredible.
But I do love sitting down at apiano or sitting down with my
guitar and just playing aroundfor a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Oh, I love that yeah, A little outlet, Beautiful,
beautiful.
I am a gardener, obsessivegardener.
And then this one behind mepaint by numbers but it's very
peaceful.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
It's like puzzling.
You did that as a paint bynumbers.
Yeah, I love it no way.
Yeah, that's incredible.
We have a paint by numbers thatis taking us for ever.
I'm like what is up with thisthing?
And it doesn't look anythinglike that.
So you're doing something,right.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Thanks, I love.
My husband does them too, buthis are like the Joker because
he's like all about the joke.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
They're very contrast yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
They're like dark and eerie or like yeah, and then
Buddha, something peaceful,serene, you got gotta have that
balance, you know, yeah, totally, totally okay.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
So tell me a little bit about your other passion,
really kind of your currentfocus right now.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, a lot of the stuff that
I'm doing right now is likearound business strategy, so
I've been working with a lot ofbusiness owners and other
entrepreneurs and bringing theircommunities to life in ways
that they'll eventually be ableto monetize that.
(17:58):
I think that I don't.
Honestly and maybe I'm like,biased in different ways I'm
such a community oriented personthat everything I do, I want it
to be on the foundation ofcommunity and connection, and so
I just have this deep desire tobuild business models around
community and for my businessmodels to be all on that
(18:20):
foundation and to be able tohelp other people build their
business models on thatfoundation of bringing people
able to help other people buildtheir business models on that
foundation of bringing peopletogether, connecting people,
being in something that it feelslike we're doing this thing
together, like we are in thistribe going after this thing,
navigating life all with eachother's backs, and so that's a
(18:41):
lot of the stuff that I've beendoing.
I've been working with a lot ofnew nurse coaches to help them
build their own businesses,starting with, you know,
creating strong offers,developing funnels, getting
narrowed down on their niche,who they want to serve, how they
want to work with them, themodel that they want to use and
then being able to start tobring that to life and a lot of
(19:04):
that is just really fun.
For me.
It always feels like a puzzle,I guess.
Like it feels like I'm puttingsome pieces together and I get
to like activate these differentparts of my brain, and I've
been having a lot of fun withthat.
I think I saw such a need forkind of more entrepreneurial
skills, understanding, kind ofmore entrepreneurial skills,
(19:28):
understanding and knowledge postgoing through these
certification programs.
Like you and I both wentthrough a certification program
that was giving us a foundationfor coaching and what that could
look like to leverage ourskills and passions as a nurse
into coaching containers.
But what I found was after thatyou don't really know where to
go or like how to do that.
You know it's like okay, yeah,I have these coaching skills,
(19:49):
but like how do I leverage thatinto a business?
And so I spent, you know,thousands and thousands and
thousands of dollars on my ownprograms and trainings and other
coaches to figure out how do Iactually bring the thing that
I'm passionate about intosomething that can sustain me
financially, because the realityis, if it can't sustain you
(20:10):
financially, even if you'rereally passionate about it, you
can burn out with that Like it's.
It's not.
Like passion prevents burnout ahundred percent.
Like there's got to besomething that continues to fill
your cup in a way that you cankeep going.
And what I found was like if I,if I just do this thing that I'm
(20:31):
like really excited about andpassionate about, but never
actually get anything inexchange for it, it's not, it's
not sustainable and it's notgoing to work and I will burn
out.
So I had to find ways that Icould leverage this thing into a
sustainable business model, andthe model that I've really
landed on has been communitybuilding.
(20:52):
So that's the stuff that I'mmost interested in and most kind
of want to help people alsoincorporate their business model
into is just human connection,bringing people together in
those ways.
So, yeah, yeah, I'm enjoying it.
It's been cool to work withother new nurse coaches and show
them the ropes a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
I love that one of my like the purpose of this
podcast and like a lot of thecoaching I do, is like women
healing community and so I'm abig advocate for building these
kind of communities where peoplecan come together and be
supported.
So I really love that.
And I love the passion piecebecause, like, I coach women
through burnout and we use thatlike purpose, that passion that
(21:32):
comes with when you identifywith a purpose or even a
placeholder purpose as a spaceholder to like create a little
space to get other work done, toget to where we need to be.
It's not well for some people,you know they can reconnect and
find a way to sustain what theylove, if that's what it is, but
for a lot of people it's theplaceholder to create some
energy to make some changes tobe able to get where you want to
(21:53):
be.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
So I love that.
Exactly.
Yeah, I think I'm curious tohear what your definition of
burnout is.
I would love to hear, like Iknow you've been doing a lot of
work around burnout.
I'd be curious to hear whatyours is.
I think something I've beenthinking about is, like I feel
like burnout is when, like theenergy input becomes less sorry.
(22:18):
The energy input becomes morethan the energy output, or sorry
.
Am I saying that the wrong way?
I am the energy output, orsorry.
Am I saying that?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I am vice versa.
You're putting out more thanyou're, you're putting out more
than you're taking in.
Yeah, so yeah, I love that froman energetic level.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yes, you're giving out more than you're taking in.
Totally I think, yeah, I thinkI think the like technical
definition of burnout is asymptom, because it's like it's
a physical, mental and emotionalexhaustion and the traditional
definition is caused by work.
But yeah, we all know that,like just, I mean I, I coach
(22:56):
women, so I speak specificallyto women.
But women take on so much stuff, like people that have kids, I
mean people who don't have jobsare burnt out and exhausted yes,
yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Burnout as a stay-at-home mom?
Yeah, that is a full-time job.
It is it.
Totally, yeah, I guess.
I guess the way like I've beenfeeling lately is like if I'm
putting more energy intosomething that it's not coming
back in a reciprocal amount orin like some kind of like we
(23:29):
have an asymmetricalrelationship between, like, what
I'm putting in versus what I'mreceiving from it.
That's when I feel like I getdrained to a point I can burn
out, and that can I've.
I've felt like that inrelationships too.
Like not just oh yeah,relationship burnout is a real
thing, that's how I feel yeah,that's how I've felt too is,
(23:51):
like you know, I've obviouslyexperienced my own burnout in
work where I felt like I wasgiving more energetically than
what I was receiving.
And after such a long time ofbeing in that state, it's like
eventually that just kind ofhits you like a train.
You know, yeah, I felt the samein relationships where I've had
to create some differentboundaries and also maybe shift
(24:16):
relationships entirely, that Ifelt like I put way more energy
into than I was getting back.
And again it's like that energyinput versus energy output
became not reciprocal anymore.
It became like unequal andtherefore the I guess like the
the balance was so off.
That feeling that for such along time energetically just
(24:39):
becomes like intolerable.
Like you just get to a pointyou're like I just don't think I
can continue giving energy tothis thing, and I felt that in
relationships.
I felt it in work environments.
There's I think there are anumber of ways that can have
that same experience.
But it's cool to hear yourdefinition as well.
I'm sure you've done a lot ofresearch into this topic.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Well, I've had.
I've obsessed with burnoutbecause I went through probably
one of the most intense habitualburnout experiences where, like
my, I was having physicalsymptoms like you wouldn't
believe.
But so my definition is thatit's when we lose the ability,
or just get too distracted, tolisten to our body signals.
When we get this, when thatconnection gets disrupted, is my
(25:25):
like very bare bones, wowdescription of it.
However, burnout has so manymoving parts.
It really does.
It's.
It involves like are weconnected to our purpose?
Are we able to hold boundaries?
What is our stress relief?
Like A lot, of, a lot of movingparts, but I think that's the
fundamental of like base of it.
And then, to take that one stepfurther, my other thing I like
(25:48):
to say about it is a lot of usso it's one of two things we
either know what we need to bedoing to be healthy and take
care of ourselves, and there isa block there that is
subconscious or some other levelthat we're avoiding, or we're
disconnected to the point wherewe can't hear or know what we
need to be doing to act on.
So, when we know what we need tobe doing, or two, we're
(26:09):
disconnected so we're not evenhearing the signals and that, as
well as blocks, that need to beaddressed.
So it's those two things that Iwork with with women when we
start the program and reallythroughout it.
We use the other steps as tools.
But to start turning towardswhat those things are, some
people have to start off bygetting comfortable feeling
(26:29):
their body where other women arevery into their bodies and it's
it's an issue of they'retotally disconnected from where
they need to be in life.
They're living unaligned.
What used to work for themdoesn't work anymore.
Their hormones have shiftedwhere they're now valuing
different things than they usedto value and they just haven't
caught up with the fact thatlike it's time to shift.
So there's a lot of things thatcan play into burnout, but I
(26:52):
think the fundamental of it iswe stopped listening to our what
our needs are, for one of thosetwo reasons.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
That's.
Yeah, that's really interesting.
Yeah, I like that, thedisconnect, like it's, the
moment that you becomedisconnected from your needs,
what you value anymore, yourpassion, your purpose, all of
that.
I was just talking with anothernurse yesterday and I was
trying to help her get clear onan offer and who she could serve
(27:18):
.
And I was like, well, tell meabout what brings you to life,
Tell me about what energizes you, what excites you.
And she was like, wow, I guessI haven't thought about that in
years.
And I was like really, she'slike yeah, I've just, you know,
I've been working as a nurse andthen I'm taking care of my
(27:38):
husband who's sick, and I'vealso have an elderly parent and
I'm taking care of them.
And I was like that is it.
I think that's the reason somany nurses reach this point of
just such severe burnout,because we're so like wired into
this take care of everyone elsementality that when we're asked
(27:59):
like something really simple,like what makes you happy?
That's essentially all I wasasking is like what makes you
happy?
She's like I haven't eventhought about that.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
in years I've been so worried about making everybody
else happy, make sure everyoneelse is good.
That is such a common story issuch a common story.
It is crazy, but it's a lot ofwomen's realities and you know
what?
That's another thing we work ontoo, which honestly affects us
as women more than we know.
But, like that whole good girlconditioning, it's just
(28:27):
culturally passed down.
I mean, it's not intentionaland sometimes it is, but it's
just subtle things that societytaught us, as they raised us, to
be pleasant, to make thingseasy, to be the ones that create
the experience, that create theenvironment, to make other
people happy.
And it affects us in a verynegative way as we get older.
(28:47):
It's hard, it makes usdisconnect.
We're the first to shovesomething under the rug, we
downplay everything, and that'swhy community has such a big
part in this, because when youhear another woman say something
that's stressing her out, itmay be something that you are
shoving under the rug.
You're noticing, you're doingit.
You're like wait what?
Yeah, yeah, that does that.
That might be training me, yeah.
(29:08):
And it takes that to hear that,and that's why I started this
podcast.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yes, no.
I think this stuff is reallyimportant because it is like
that is wild to think about,like that where we can ask each
other a question as simple aslike yeah, what, what's making
you happy these days?
And it's like, honestly,couldn't tell you.
I am just so focused oneverybody.
It's like what?
Like what?
(29:33):
You can't give more than youhave.
Like you can't give more thanyou're receiving back.
Eventually, you will get to aplace.
I do think it manifests in allthose physical ways.
I know you have your own storywith that, but I think that's
just the body screaming likestop.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Listen to me, listen to me.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Exactly Like it's got to catch our attention at some
point before we just go into afull-blown dysfunction meltdown,
which, like I think that iswhat we get to.
Like.
That is the place that ourbodies get to if we are ignoring
it for such a long time.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I also think that, just as from a nurse, I think
like one in four women have beena nurse at one point.
There's like 50, I can'tremember million nurses or
something like that.
So a huge percentage of thepopulation is nursing.
But that, even as a nurse, thatis also something that's pushed
subtly onto you is toself-sacrifice, like to wait,
(30:28):
you know, like that it's a jokeabout holding your pee and all
that stuff and you knowsometimes but that is pressured
into you and it is.
I think it's intentional in someways.
But that is also why we nursesis the health care is the number
one field to burn out in Yodon't get me started on that,
because I will go off.
(30:49):
Get out of your soapbox.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I get really.
I get really annoyed and I'msorry if you're one of these
people I can't see you as beingone of these people but I get
really annoyed when people arelike nursing is my calling.
I'm like it is a career, andthe reason that people instill
(31:14):
this idea of like nursing beinga calling is so they can take
advantage of your ass and getyou working more than you need
to be working and caring forothers way more than you're
caring for yourself and keepingthe system running on your
energy and effort that you'renot fairly compensated for and
you're not given like safeconditions to even be working
with them.
Like don't call it a callingbecause the system is hearing us
(31:39):
say that and they're like thoseare the perfect people to keep
this thing running with, becausethey believe that it is on them
to keep it going because it istheir soul's purpose.
Your soul's purpose is not tohold up this like really failing
system failing but also verylike immoral system, like it is
(32:05):
dirty, what's going on in thissystem and so greedy.
It is not your job to uphold afailing, fraudulent, scammy
system like this.
It is your.
I do believe it can be yourcalling and your purpose to help
people in different ways.
But, like when we attach thatto the career, like nursing
(32:29):
itself, we are feeding, we arefeeding this culture that it is
on us to keep this thing running.
That maybe needs to fail inorder for people to wake up and
be like, okay, something's notworking, like what can we really
change?
Let's look at it, let's teaseit apart, let's kind of take the
(32:51):
pieces apart and figure outwhere the things that just
aren't working in our benefitanymore, so we can actually
begin to create solutions aroundthat.
But we're never going to get tothat point If nurses keep
coming in to save the day, likeit's enabling it's enabling the
system.
That is just not servinganybody and it's certainly not
(33:12):
serving us.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Well it it perpetuates this idea that being
a martyr is somehow some likesaintly noble thing.
And that is also a female thing.
That's also part of that goodgirl conditioning that it's
noble to sacrifice and it is not.
That's a trick.
That is like the.
That's a trick to hold you down.
(33:34):
I was like that's notpatriarchy, but we're about to
go off y'all.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
We are going off.
We are going off.
It's too late.
It's too late.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
It's very true, and healthcare relies on that.
That's why they want new nurses, that's why they want you to
not have a lot of experiencewhen they roll you into higher
education and that system.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Dude, I was on a call .
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I'm trying to get her on my podcast 70 year old nurse
this morning talking aboutthese same issues and she was on
her soapbox about this too.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
So we're not alone and we all have our soapbox.
Yeah, because I used to seethat like all the time it's like
, oh well, I'm not in it for themoney, and oh, I'm not in it
for the money, and oh well, I'mnot in it for this and that, and
I'm like, okay, yeah, we knowthat, we know you're not, but
like you need to quit with thismartyrdom thing because that's
(34:28):
why the system is the way it is,because you feed it this shit.
Like you feed it this shit.
Yeah, is it running this way?
Speaker 1 (34:36):
oh, I am, I am.
I like empathize with peoplewho believe their calling is to
like help others in, nurture andgive in that way like yes,
that's your calling, but ourhealth care system does not
support that and it will breakyou.
That's to say you shouldn't bein it, but when you go into it
they are not going to arm youwith what you need to survive.
(34:57):
That you will burn out if youdon't find ways to take care of
your mental out, if you don'tfind ways to take care of your
mental health, if you don't findways to hold boundaries and
also to find stress relief,because it is a very stressful
job it really is.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I you know California is a bit different experience.
Nursing in California.
I was like, okay, there aresome things that can be done to
ensure there is a fair treatmentof nurses, because there are
places like here that areimplementing some of those
things.
It's not perfect and it hassuch a long way to go before
(35:34):
it's really a system thatnurtures nurses and cares for
them and ways that they cancontinue to do this career for
long periods of time.
At the same time, I do see like,for example, in California,
you're required to take a breakand you're required to hand over
your phone and you're requiredto like step off the like you
can't.
(35:54):
Like I just remember so manyother places that I've worked
that I've just had to keepworking through my lunch break.
Or like I had to take my phonewith me into the break room, so
if they do need me, got to cutlunch short and it's like I get
30 minutes in this hellhole tolike get a quick bite and I
(36:15):
don't even really get that.
Like how does that make anysense?
Right, like there are just somethings that I think are very
basic, like allowing a nurse tohave a lunch break that people
just don't take seriously.
It's so looked over and maybeit's gotten better, since I've
(36:36):
worked in those areas.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
I'm not sure, nope Well so I've been traveling for
the last five years.
I've worked in tons offacilities.
I've worked all over thecountry and I've worked for good
hospital systems, but Utah hasmy favorite hospital system.
That really does make an effort.
It really does.
I think they were actually likerecognized by the Obama
administration at one point forbeing but that's where I started
(36:58):
and then from there I movedWest down to Florida and things
have progressively gotten alittle different.
But also COVID happened.
So I don't know, I think COVIDprobably had a part in that too.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
So yeah, yeah, I know .
Yeah, covid, I think woke up alot of us to the realities of
healthcare.
But yeah, there, there are justso many times, like you know
you mentioned like not peeingthroughout a shift Like there
have been times I literally assoon as I clocked out, like ran
to the bathroom.
I feel like I peed for five anda half minutes straight and I
(37:32):
was like, oh my God, like Ithink I just went 14 hours
without peeing and like, and youdidn't drink any water either.
Yeah, and like the reason Icould do that is because I
didn't have a second to drinkany water as well, but it's like
that's insane, that I didn'treally get a lunch break, I
didn't get to pee, like I it wason my shoulders to like make
(37:54):
sure the world wasn't fallingapart.
Like that cannot be on oneperson and it has to be.
Like this messaging needs to bestopped around this, and like
the whole martyrdom thing needsto be stopped.
You're not doing any good forthe world by being a martyr, in
fact, like if you think aboutthis as like an abusive
(38:15):
relationship.
I'm not trying to be dramatic.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
No, I want to write a book called healthcare, like
and is my abusive boyfriend, orsomething like that, because it
is relationship.
I'm not trying to be dramatic.
No, I want to write a bookcalled health care, like and is
my abusive boyfriend, orsomething like that, because it
is.
They're so similar so similar.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Or like think about if you had, like, an addict
child.
You know that it's like, youknow their behavior needs to
change, but you keep giving themmoney for drugs, like do you
really think that's what's gonnalike?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
turn their life life around.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Your narcissistic parent like yes, exactly Like we
know these things right.
Like we know, if you have anaddict in your family, you don't
keep giving them money becausethey're going to go spend it on
the drugs.
But there are so many familymembers who get caught in that
enabling cycle because they wantto be the one to come in and
(39:01):
save the day.
It's almost just as much amental issue on the enabler as
it is the addict.
Like there's like some deep,deep stuff to dig into there we
(39:22):
need to evaluate.
As nurses, I think we need toevaluate where our value is
coming from and why we feel theneed to receive or to why we
feel the need to get value or tofeel like we have value through
being valuable to other people,rather than what innately
exists within us.
I think it's important to likekind of do a deep dive into our
inner landscape and be like allright, what's going on here?
Like I've done that.
(39:42):
You know I've been in therapyand they were like well, don't
you find it interesting that youknow this is how your family
dynamic was and this is how thiswas.
And then you went into a careerwhere you're the caretaker and
I'm like we're in a cycle, we'restuck in a pattern.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
I was going to say there is a pattern with a lot
not say all because there's somany nurses out there.
But I do think there issomething innately in some of us
where we're trying to provesomething, we're trying to
rechange a pattern, we're tryingto make something, we're trying
to make up for something or begood enough in some way is why
we put ourselves in thesesituations.
I know, for me it definitelywas.
(40:25):
I did not have a greatchildhood.
There's a lot of trauma andhaving to be an adult before I
had to.
And for me I remember this wasso funny.
My mom I remember like talkingabout how much she respected ICU
nurses, which is so funnybecause, like I became an ICU
nurse was like a third career.
But it's like now that I lookback on it I'm like this is
probably the role I've respectedmyself in the most.
I think it's just my mombecause of that comment.
(40:46):
But you know, ladies, it isstuff like that.
So you're trying to.
We all have that voice in theback of our heads, that
something, and I think nursesespecially.
There's something there to whywe're drawn to this system there
is.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I mean, I used to do it in relationships too, not
just in my career.
I used to do it inrelationships where I would be
just overly generous, like,overly like, trying to take care
of everyone else, like in thisthought pattern of like man, I
give so much, like, why can'tother people give back to me in
the same way that I give?
And then I woke up one day tolike oh, that's where I'm
getting my value.
Man, I give so much Like, whycan't other people give back to
me in the same way that I give?
And then I woke up one day tolike oh, that's where I'm
(41:23):
getting my value.
I think that I have no worth.
Like, I actually believe thatmy self-worth is zero and
therefore I need to go out andprove to everybody that I do
have some.
I actually need to get valuefrom other people in my life by
showing up in these excessiveways, by being excessively
(41:46):
generous, by being excessivelyloyal, or what I thought was
loyal but really was just aselfish way of being like, see
me, see me, I'm good enough, I'ma good person.
Yeah, like, don't leave me.
Don't you see how much I'm agood person?
Yeah, like, don't leave me.
Don't you see how much I'mdoing for you?
I've shown you, my physicalvalue.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Like stay with me forever because I have this
inherent value to you by showingup and being this generous
person and always being therefor you and dropping everything
for you and all of those kindsof ways of showing up in
relationships.
I think is the same reason Iended up as a nurse was like I
needed to figure out like I havevalue outside of how I show up
(42:31):
in the world.
Whoa, sorry, I'm getting toocrazy.
I'm getting like verypassionate.
Yeah, like outside of, outsideof how I show up for other
people, outside of the valuethat I'm bringing up to.
Like you gotta stop searchingoutside yourself.
Like I honestly feel like one ofthe moments that I woke up to
(43:10):
that was when I was like staringinto this pill bottle wondering
if there were enough left inthere to take my own life.
I was so miserable and so stuckin the same cycles that I was
just like I'm so done with this.
Like why do I keep getting inthese same cycles in my
relationships and my mentalhealth?
(43:30):
Like I feel like every month Iwas in the same kind of chaotic
situation and I was like I amdone and I was driving home I
remembered that my roommate hadsome like leftover opioids from
a wisdom teeth removal surgeryand I knew where they were.
I was like I'm going to checkand see if there's enough in
there to like do anything.
(43:51):
And I opened it up, there'sfour in the bottle and I'm like,
okay, well, like four pills isnot going to do anything
anything.
So guess I got to figure outwhat I'm going to do with my
life because I am in thesecycles.
So I can either use this as anopportunity to wake up to why I
keep getting in them or I cankeep looking for ways to take,
(44:11):
like you know, just end it all,I guess.
And I felt like this can be awake up call for me, Like this
can be a turning point.
This can be the moment that Ireally do a deep dive into why
I'm showing up in these ways,why I keep ending up in the same
cycles.
And I did Like I went into adeep dive into, like, the way
(44:33):
that I operate, did a lot ofwork around like my past, a lot
of like inner child stuff, allthe things, All the things man
to be like okay, I am worthy oflove outside of anything
external, like I just am, period.
There's nothing I need to do toprove that.
(44:55):
There's nothing I need to be toprove that I just am, and I
think that's when everythingshifted for me.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Beautiful.
So tell me what was the firststep you took.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
A lot of like, a lot of inner dialogue, like I did
this practice where I journaledout this dialogue between my
present self and the like littlegirl that I felt like kept
causing havoc in my life.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Oh, I love it.
Okay, like I love inner childwork, it's very powerful for me.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah, and I remember like writing it out as a
journaling practice, like Iwould write me colon and then I
would say what I want to say toher and then I would write her
colon and then she would kind ofsay what, like she was feeling
and what I felt like was thething that was surfacing.
And I just did that little likedialogue.
(45:52):
For a while I was justjournaling, like me and her,
back and forth, back and forth,back and forth, until I finally
felt like we came to anunderstanding, like oh, this is
what you're here for, this iswhat you're trying to
communicate, this is what you'retrying to like, show me that
you need, or this is the waythat you felt, like you needed
to be seen or heard or validatedin some way.
(46:15):
And then it was kind of likeyou're sitting across the table
from this version of you andthen you just like reach out and
grab it by the hand and you'relike you know what, we're going
to be okay, and we're going todo this together.
And then I think, honestly, thatshifts so much Once that
version of you feels like oh,okay, you do see me, you do hear
(46:37):
me, you do understand me.
For some reason, it kind ofsilences a lot of the chaos that
they're causing.
And that was it for me.
Of course, there was a lot morethat I did and a lot more of
that work that I was involved inand, you know, really got
serious and therapy reallystarted shifting how I saw
(46:59):
myself.
I did a lot of work around kindof my own worth and things like
that, but that was one of thepractices that, like when I
think back to that time was waspivotal for me.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Oh, I love that you say that, yeah, it's been very
powerful for me as well.
Very powerful Just going backand like telling myself like I'm
the one that takes care ofeverything.
It turns out okay and I'm theone that's got you, because I
feel like for me, I was alwayswaiting for someone to come like
save me and make it okay.
And it was so powerful themoment that I decided like I'm
the one that's gonna make itokay and I told her that.
(47:32):
You know, like I told some ofthe most vulnerable times in my
life that like it all turns outand like where the woman makes
that happen, it's just such alike.
It's like something inside,just like closed a little bit.
I mean it didn't completelyheal, the doors didn't stand
shut.
I come up against new versionsI have to deal with all the time
, but it's very powerful everytime I get there, you know yes,
(47:54):
it's so powerful to step intothat like, to step into like I'm
I'm, yes, like I'm the creator,I make this shit happen.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
I'm in the driver's seat, yeah, because I think for
a while, like if you have, youknow, for me, like if I having
like a little five or six yearold Micah driving a bus, there
were a lot of people that weregetting hurt.
We, we were running over signs,we were running over
pedestrians, we were off-roading.
It was crazy.
And then, as soon as I, like,was in the back of the bus,
(48:24):
decided I'm going to come up tothe front of the bus, have a
little conversation with littleMicah, who's driving this thing,
causing havoc.
I mean, no six-year-old shouldbe driving a bus.
I come up to the front, I'm likeyou got to get out of the
driver's seat, I got to takeover from here and we have a
little conversation, we come toan understanding.
I'm like I'm not saying youcan't be here, I'm just saying
(48:46):
you can't be driving, you can behere, you just have to get in
the passenger seat and I'm goingto hold your hand while I'm
driving.
I'm going to let you know likeI'm still here, we're still
doing this thing together.
You're still in the bus, you'restill a part of this, but I've
got to take over.
I'm the one with the driver'slicense, I'm the one with like
I'm the responsible adult here,and it's almost like you got to
(49:08):
have that conversation and belike.
I think the important piece ofthis is truly the like you can
be here, like I'm not kickingyou out and I'm not saying you
don't have a place in my life,like you absolutely do.
Every version of us has such animportant role to play and like
who we become, yes, honoringeach, honoring each person
(49:29):
you've been because they were sovital for you.
Along this journey, like you,were doing the best you could
with what you have yes, yeah,and like really recognizing that
and that version of me beinglike, yeah, you can be here, you
have a role, you have.
Yes, yeah, and like reallyrecognizing that and that
version of me being like, yeah,you can be here, you have a role
, you have a function, but yourrole cannot be driving this bus
anymore.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Right, we got you.
We got it from here.
I love that.
I love that so much.
This is a powerful place toclose off, I think.
So let me, before we go,let's's let's talk about.
If people want to learn moreabout you, learn more about your
services, how are they going tofind you?
Speaker 2 (50:06):
yeah, so I have a couple communities, as I
mentioned.
I am all about buildingcommunity right now, um.
So one of my communities iscalled schoolcom slash microdose
and it's a community all aboutmicrodosing for mental health.
I share a lot in there about myown experience.
I also share differenttrainings that would help people
(50:28):
get started if they wanted tolearn how to get started in a
microdosing journey.
And then I also have acommunity that is for new nurse
coaches and nurse entrepreneursand that is schoolcom slash
nursepreneur.
And that's another one that ifpeople are looking to maybe go
into business as nurses, theywant to figure out how to lay a
(50:50):
foundation for doing that.
That would be where they canfind me.
It's school with a K the coolway of spelling school.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Um, yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
I have kind of two different Instagrams for those.
One is more around themicro-using stuff that's
transformed with Micah, and thenthe other one is Micah helps
nurses.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
So I'm going to put links to these in the show notes
eventually, when this ispublished.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
I got so much going on.
I got too many too manyInstagram, such it gets wild.
But I got a lot of passions,got a lot of things that I enjoy
and want to bring to the table.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
So before we go, let's talk.
Let's talk about what you do,what your number one stress
relief is.
So you got a lot on your plate.
How do you manage that stress?
What's the number one thing?
Speaker 2 (51:35):
you do thing to do Changing my environment?
Yeah, like if I have beensitting at home in front of my
computer.
I'm overwhelmed.
I'm like in back to back toback calls.
The first thing that I think todo is get up, move around, go
for a walk or get in my car, godrive to sunset cliffs where I
(51:58):
can watch the sunset likesomething that gets me out of my
environment.
I believe that when we get outof our environment, we get out
of the thought loop that we'rein, because usually it's
associated with the environmentthat we're in.
So I just change up myphysiology, Like I move my body,
get in a different environment,go get some sunlight all that
good stuff.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
I love it.
Great advice.
I'm a big one about myenvironment too.
It affects the way I feel.
I think it's part of being likethe neurodivergent brain, like
the ADHD, works super effectiveby our environment.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Yeah, and bonus points If you can get into an
environment that activates theplayful side of you.
Welcome, ladies.
This is Empowered Ease, thepodcast where we challenge the
patriarchy by empowering womento take control of their health,
mind, body and spirit.
My name is Jen Olinger.
I'm a holistic coach, founderof the Moonflower Collective and
a critical care nurse.
Join me each week as Iinterview healers, health
(00:23):
practitioners and women like youwhile they share their
inspiring stories and theirunique approaches to women's
health and empowerment.
So like and subscribe so younever miss an episode and follow
along as we learn to step intoour power and embrace a life of
ease.
Okay, all right, welcome,welcome.
(00:58):
So my guest today is MicahWalker.
She does a lot of interestingthings and Micah and I actually
know each other.
We went through our holisticnurse coach program together.
So welcome, Micah, I'm so happyyou're here.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'm stoked.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
Thanks for having me on Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So, Micah, you are a coach microdosing and you coach
new nurses starting theirpractice in holistic coaching.
Tell me a little about that?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh my goodness, doing all kinds of stuff In holistic
coaching.
Tell me a little about that.
Oh my goodness, doing all kindsof stuff.
Yeah, I went through the nursecoach collective and decided,
yeah, we did, it was.
It was a cool launch pad for me, I think, to open the world up
a little bit to what waspossible as a nurse, and I was
really burnt out.
I was like super drained, verylike kind of having those
(01:46):
thoughts of like I don't knowhow I can keep doing this,
wonder what else I can do withmy career, and so I decided to
go the coaching route.
Since then have gone intomicrodosing, mentorship, where I
help other people integratemicrodosing and deep
transformational mindset work,mostly working with
entrepreneurs and other businessowners to overcome mental
(02:08):
health challenges holistically,and then more recently shifted
to some business strategy.
So I've been helping othercompanies and business owners
with building out communitiesonline and creating communities
that can then be monetized fortheir business, and started
working with nurses in thatrealm as well.
It's been really fun.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Awesome.
Well, I wanted to have you ontoday because I microdose myself
.
It has improved my life, and Idon't even know how many ways,
and also I'm a nurse coach.
There's a lot to relate to hereand you're doing some really
powerful, powerful things.
But tell me, like, what drewyou to micro dosing?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I guess it's kind of twofold for me.
The first thing that I think ofis just obviously my own
personal experience working withpsychedelics and having my.
I felt like it opened up mymind and consciousness in ways
that like nothing else in mylife has my mind and
consciousness in ways that likenothing else in my life has, and
(03:09):
in accelerated ways like likethings that have surfaced for me
and things that I've been ableto process and navigate and move
through have been so much likefaster working with psychedelics
than like any traditionalmodality of overcoming different
mental health challenges.
And so I think because of mypersonal experience and working
(03:31):
with those psychedelics, Ireally wanted to figure out ways
I could bring that intocoaching containers.
I guess the other side of thecoin is just the research that
has been coming out around theuse of psychedelics in these
spaces has been extraordinary,like there's plenty of research
now around the efficacy ofpsychedelics and treating
(03:52):
different mental healthdisorders has like surpassed the
like, surpasses anunderstatement but has surpassed
the efficacy of traditionalantidepressants and anti-anxiety
meds and things like that.
So that's been intriguing to meas well that, like some of
these traditional ways thatwe've approached these different
mental health challenges arenot actually nearly as effective
(04:16):
as these other options that wehave.
And I'm you know I've beencurious, like why aren't we
talking about this other stuffif it's continuously showing
time and time again that it'smore effective, that it's safer,
that it has less side effects?
I mean, there's a lot ofbenefits there which I'm sure we
will go more into.
But I think those are kind ofthe main reasons, the twofold of
(04:38):
like I've had my own experienceand also I'm seeing so much
come out in the research.
That's drawing me to it in alot of ways.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Oh my gosh, I love that so personally with just
with micro dosing and honestly,like just messing around as a
younger person taking mushrooms,yeah, but I honestly
experienced some very powerful,powerful shifts from those times
that I know improved my life.
And there was nothing noresearch back then, but I knew
(05:10):
back then there was something toit and now that there's, now
that it's, you can access it andyou can use it in these like
intentional ways, I've benefitedfrom it even more.
But I think that most of thebenefits I've had have been in.
So I I used to work in mentalhealth.
(05:30):
I worked with troubled teensbefore I ever became a nurse and
then worked in the healthcare's version of mental health
for a year, which was a joke,but so it's something I'm really
passionate about, yeah, so tellme more.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, I'm in the same boat.
I remember I was working in apsych unit pretty soon before I
ended up leaving bedsidealtogether.
I was working as a float nurse,so I was kind of just sent
wherever they needed me at thetime and I would every once in a
while get sent to the psychunit.
And I remember, like, sittingin the psych unit and like first
(06:14):
of all, the news was on and itwas feeding these people like
the worst information.
I'm like this is crazy.
Well, and then they would also,they would also talk to them
about like world news.
They would be like, all right,so here are updates for today.
And then they'd read throughand I'm like anxiety provoking,
(06:34):
yeah, like what we feed people,what we put in people into their
minds and into their bodies andmakes a huge impact.
And then I'm looking at theirfood right, I'm looking at the
food that's in front of me.
I remember that and I'm likewe're here to try to help these
people overcome these differentmental health challenges, but
(06:57):
what we're feeding them, bothmentally and literally, what
we're feeding them, does not atall communicate that we're
trying to help them, like not asingle bit.
And I remember just thinking Iactually started writing in my
notebook like my thoughts that Iwas having that day, like just
how frustrated I was.
(07:19):
And you know, you go throughtheir medication regimen and
they're on all this stuff.
And then you're reading throughthese doctor's notes that are
like, well, this medication madethem X, y and Z.
So we're switching into thismedication or we're adding this
medication to help with the sideeffects of this medication, and
I'm just like what are we doing?
(07:40):
This is bananas.
Doing this is bananas.
So I was quite frustrated withthe healthcare system, not just
in the mental health space, buttruly the healthcare system
overall was very frustrating tome and I was out of place.
I was no longer feeling like Icould participate in it with my
heart in it anymore.
Like that, my soul and my heartwas like slowly taking these
(08:05):
steps back.
I'm just like I don't know, Idon't know, I don't know if I'm
in this anymore, and so I thinkfor me a lot of it came from
like feeling really misaligned,like I felt really misaligned in
healthcare when I finallydecided to move away from
bedside.
It was like a little whisperthat turned into like a scream
(08:29):
that I could no longer ignore.
It's like you first kind of getthat nudge and it's like, hey,
you're not like super lovingthis and it's like, okay, I
could ignore that.
And then it gets a littlelouder and it's like, hey,
you're like not loving this andit's also not the way that you
want to help people.
And then the voice becomes astern voice and then eventually
(08:52):
it's like screaming at you whereyou cannot actually ignore it
anymore.
And I got to that place whereit was like all right, I can't
ignore it.
I got to do something else.
I got to figure it out, becauseI am showing up without my
heart in it, without feelinglike I'm in nursing.
For the thing that I started waslike I guess the intention that
(09:13):
I started with was I wanted tohelp people heal and I wanted to
participate in that gift andtransformation.
And I was like that's not whatwe're doing here.
It's just not what it's set upfor, like it's.
It's a system that's not set upto get people to a place they
never need need us or need itagain.
The system is set up so thatpeople stay and remain dependent
(09:37):
on it forever.
It's a business.
It's a business.
You got to keep the customers.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Oh, go ahead as a critical care nurse like, oh my
gosh, I went into it because Ibelieve in the.
I'm a nurse, so the nursingmodel is patient forward, right.
Holistic, right.
We believe in that.
The medical model is symptomsbackwards.
That is a model that works fora lot of acute care situations
and that's what I went intobeing a critical care nurse
(10:04):
thinking I was going to do.
And, holy cow, that's about 15%of what I do and the rest of
what I do is manage chronicillnesses.
That all could be preventedwith education and mental health
care.
Yeah, so what are the mosteffective way?
Or I guess what is microdosingthe most effective way?
Or I guess what are the what ismicrodosing the most effective
(10:25):
in in that, in the mental healthspace.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, so a lot of the things that we've seen come out
around the use of psilocybin ingeneral, there's not a lot of
research.
I do want to preface whatthere's not nearly as much
research in the microdosingspace as in larger doses spaces.
So I want to be transparentabout that, that we still need a
(10:50):
lot of research to come outaround microdosing.
There are some, but it is kindof hard to, it's hard to study,
it's hard to especially, youknow, with the different
regulations that are on variousforms of plant medicine.
The studies that have been donearound psilocybin are generally
(11:14):
with larger doses and whatwe've seen is that people are
having depression and anxietysymptoms just plummet after
these large dose ceremonies orexperiences or journeys,
whatever you want to call that.
And what we're finding now toois that because microdosing or
(11:35):
psilocybin in general has theability to increase
neuroplasticity, so our brain'sability to change over time,
that we can actually create newnetworks, new connections, new
patterns through theintroduction of this compound,
even in small doses over time,and those changes may be more
(11:57):
subtle and spread out, butthey're still happening.
And so because it is increasingour brain's receptiveness to
change, we can introducedifferent mindset tools and
techniques to begin to shiftdifferent ways of thinking,
different ways of seeingourselves and the world around
us, different ways of processingtrauma, all kinds of stuff like
(12:18):
that.
So depression is a huge onethat it's been effective in
Anxiety as well is a huge onethat it's been effective in
anxiety as well.
In PTSD there's been a lotthat's come out around PTSD
people really being able to havea different lens that they're
seeing their trauma through.
And I think a lot of that isjust the result of getting into
a more neuroplastic state andmaking new connections and new
(12:40):
neural pathways in the brain.
Because as we grow older, weget solidified into these
programs, like however we think,however we operate, whatever
patterns we're in, they get kindof like stuck in us.
The older that we get and a lotof that is because of the neuro
changes that we're goingthrough.
(13:01):
As we age, we get more and moresolidified into those patterns
and pathways and connections.
So often when we need to learnsomething new, we have to
introduce something that allowsour brains to get into a state
it's ready to receive somethingnew.
When you're younger, you don'tneed that because your brain is
so neuroplastic, it's soreceptive to any learning, to
(13:22):
any change.
That's why it's so easy forchildren to learn a new language
or to pick up on like thesecrazy things that it would be
almost impossible to do as anadult.
And you have to work 10 timesharder to learn the same things
as an adult.
And it's because of the waysthat our brain changes.
In that way we just aren't asreceptive to those new patterns,
(13:43):
those new changes, those newways of thinking.
So microdosing has been a waythat I've kind of allowed people
to have something that, whilethey're incorporating some deep
transformational minds at workto change their patterns, to
change their ways of thinking,they're in a state they're more
receptive to that new stuff thatwe're introducing.
(14:03):
So that's why I love it, that'swhy I think it's powerful and
that's the stuff that it's beenable to help people with so far.
It's been really cool.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
That is really awesome.
I love it too.
I find it helps me process alot of my childhood stuff.
I find it also helps me a lotwith creativity as I take on
like new endeavors and step intonew roles.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Microdosing has helped me significantly break
through the blocks that come up,because they're just I feel
like I still have them, but Iget through them so much quicker
when I use microdosing yeah,and that's like again, that's
like the in the enhancedneuroplasticity, like our
creativity is from our brain,getting like opened up to the
(14:47):
world, getting opened up to newperspectives and new ways of
looking at things.
But it's hard to kind of get inthat state as an adult when you
have been hardwired into theseways of looking at the world,
ways of looking at yourself,ways of looking at your
relationships, your past, yourtrauma, that it's kind of all in
(15:08):
one box like creativity in thesense of like art and painting
and music and things like that,and creativity in the sense of
new ways of approaching yourpast, new ways of approaching
your relationships.
Like to me that's allcreativity because it's
introducing something new,something different, something
that's out of the box for you.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
You seem like a very creative person, Micah.
What are some other creativethings you're into Tell?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
me.
Well, I do love playing music,Like I play guitar, I sing.
I used to write music a lot andI was talking about this
recently.
I haven't written as many songsand things like that lately
I've been, and there's reasonsfor that too.
As we get older, when we get inlike routine, it actually also
(15:58):
prevents our creativity fromsurfacing.
And I think when I I guess whenI started my career, that's
when I noticed I wasn't writingas much anymore, when I was like
in a full blown career, showingup at work doing the adulting
thing but that's something I wasrecently talking about that I
want to get back into is likewriting music.
(16:19):
So that's, that's the primaryway that I express myself
creatively.
I'm not really like artistic inthe sense of I don't really
paint or draw or anything likethat.
My fiance does a lot of thatand is incredible.
But I do love sitting down at apiano or sitting down with my
guitar and just playing aroundfor a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Oh, I love that yeah, A little outlet, Beautiful,
beautiful.
I am a gardener, obsessivegardener.
And then this one behind mepaint by numbers but it's very
peaceful.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
It's like puzzling.
You did that as a paint bynumbers.
Yeah, I love it no way.
Yeah, that's incredible.
We have a paint by numbers thatis taking us for ever.
I'm like what is up with thisthing?
And it doesn't look anythinglike that.
So you're doing something,right.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Thanks, I love.
My husband does them too, buthis are like the Joker because
he's like all about the joke.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
They're very contrast yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
They're like dark and eerie or like yeah, and then
Buddha, something peaceful,serene, you got gotta have that
balance, you know, yeah, totally, totally okay.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
So tell me a little bit about your other passion,
really kind of your currentfocus right now.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, a lot of the stuff that
I'm doing right now is likearound business strategy, so
I've been working with a lot ofbusiness owners and other
entrepreneurs and bringing theircommunities to life in ways
that they'll eventually be ableto monetize that.
(17:58):
I think that I don't.
Honestly and maybe I'm like,biased in different ways I'm
such a community oriented personthat everything I do, I want it
to be on the foundation ofcommunity and connection, and so
I just have this deep desire tobuild business models around
community and for my businessmodels to be all on that
(18:20):
foundation and to be able tohelp other people build their
business models on thatfoundation of bringing people
able to help other people buildtheir business models on that
foundation of bringing peopletogether, connecting people,
being in something that it feelslike we're doing this thing
together, like we are in thistribe going after this thing,
navigating life all with eachother's backs, and so that's a
(18:41):
lot of the stuff that I've beendoing.
I've been working with a lot ofnew nurse coaches to help them
build their own businesses,starting with, you know,
creating strong offers,developing funnels, getting
narrowed down on their niche,who they want to serve, how they
want to work with them, themodel that they want to use and
then being able to start tobring that to life and a lot of
(19:04):
that is just really fun.
For me.
It always feels like a puzzle,I guess.
Like it feels like I'm puttingsome pieces together and I get
to like activate these differentparts of my brain, and I've
been having a lot of fun withthat.
I think I saw such a need forkind of more entrepreneurial
skills, understanding, kind ofmore entrepreneurial skills,
(19:28):
understanding and knowledge postgoing through these
certification programs.
Like you and I both wentthrough a certification program
that was giving us a foundationfor coaching and what that could
look like to leverage ourskills and passions as a nurse
into coaching containers.
But what I found was after thatyou don't really know where to
go or like how to do that.
You know it's like okay, yeah,I have these coaching skills,
(19:49):
but like how do I leverage thatinto a business?
And so I spent, you know,thousands and thousands and
thousands of dollars on my ownprograms and trainings and other
coaches to figure out how do Iactually bring the thing that
I'm passionate about intosomething that can sustain me
financially, because the realityis, if it can't sustain you
(20:10):
financially, even if you'rereally passionate about it, you
can burn out with that Like it's.
It's not.
Like passion prevents burnout ahundred percent.
Like there's got to besomething that continues to fill
your cup in a way that you cankeep going.
And what I found was like if I,if I just do this thing that I'm
(20:31):
like really excited about andpassionate about, but never
actually get anything inexchange for it, it's not, it's
not sustainable and it's notgoing to work and I will burn
out.
So I had to find ways that Icould leverage this thing into a
sustainable business model, andthe model that I've really
landed on has been communitybuilding.
(20:52):
So that's the stuff that I'mmost interested in and most kind
of want to help people alsoincorporate their business model
into is just human connection,bringing people together in
those ways.
So, yeah, yeah, I'm enjoying it.
It's been cool to work withother new nurse coaches and show
them the ropes a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
I love that one of my like the purpose of this
podcast and like a lot of thecoaching I do, is like women
healing community and so I'm abig advocate for building these
kind of communities where peoplecan come together and be
supported.
So I really love that.
And I love the passion piecebecause, like, I coach women
through burnout and we use thatlike purpose, that passion that
(21:32):
comes with when you identifywith a purpose or even a
placeholder purpose as a spaceholder to like create a little
space to get other work done, toget to where we need to be.
It's not well for some people,you know they can reconnect and
find a way to sustain what theylove, if that's what it is, but
for a lot of people it's theplaceholder to create some
energy to make some changes tobe able to get where you want to
(21:53):
be.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
So I love that.
Exactly.
Yeah, I think I'm curious tohear what your definition of
burnout is.
I would love to hear, like Iknow you've been doing a lot of
work around burnout.
I'd be curious to hear whatyours is.
I think something I've beenthinking about is, like I feel
like burnout is when, like theenergy input becomes less sorry.
(22:18):
The energy input becomes morethan the energy output, or sorry
.
Am I saying that the wrong way?
I am the energy output, orsorry.
Am I saying that?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I am vice versa.
You're putting out more thanyou're, you're putting out more
than you're taking in.
Yeah, so yeah, I love that froman energetic level.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yes, you're giving out more than you're taking in.
Totally I think, yeah, I thinkI think the like technical
definition of burnout is asymptom, because it's like it's
a physical, mental and emotionalexhaustion and the traditional
definition is caused by work.
But yeah, we all know that,like just, I mean I, I coach
(22:56):
women, so I speak specificallyto women.
But women take on so much stuff, like people that have kids, I
mean people who don't have jobsare burnt out and exhausted yes,
yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Burnout as a stay-at-home mom?
Yeah, that is a full-time job.
It is it.
Totally, yeah, I guess.
I guess the way like I've beenfeeling lately is like if I'm
putting more energy intosomething that it's not coming
back in a reciprocal amount orin like some kind of like we
(23:29):
have an asymmetricalrelationship between, like, what
I'm putting in versus what I'mreceiving from it.
That's when I feel like I getdrained to a point I can burn
out, and that can I've.
I've felt like that inrelationships too.
Like not just oh yeah,relationship burnout is a real
thing, that's how I feel yeah,that's how I've felt too is,
(23:51):
like you know, I've obviouslyexperienced my own burnout in
work where I felt like I wasgiving more energetically than
what I was receiving.
And after such a long time ofbeing in that state, it's like
eventually that just kind ofhits you like a train.
You know, yeah, I felt the samein relationships where I've had
to create some differentboundaries and also maybe shift
(24:16):
relationships entirely, that Ifelt like I put way more energy
into than I was getting back.
And again it's like that energyinput versus energy output
became not reciprocal anymore.
It became like unequal andtherefore the I guess like the
the balance was so off.
That feeling that for such along time energetically just
(24:39):
becomes like intolerable.
Like you just get to a pointyou're like I just don't think I
can continue giving energy tothis thing, and I felt that in
relationships.
I felt it in work environments.
There's I think there are anumber of ways that can have
that same experience.
But it's cool to hear yourdefinition as well.
I'm sure you've done a lot ofresearch into this topic.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Well, I've had.
I've obsessed with burnoutbecause I went through probably
one of the most intense habitualburnout experiences where, like
my, I was having physicalsymptoms like you wouldn't
believe.
But so my definition is thatit's when we lose the ability,
or just get too distracted, tolisten to our body signals.
When we get this, when thatconnection gets disrupted, is my
(25:25):
like very bare bones, wowdescription of it.
However, burnout has so manymoving parts.
It really does.
It's.
It involves like are weconnected to our purpose?
Are we able to hold boundaries?
What is our stress relief?
Like A lot, of, a lot of movingparts, but I think that's the
fundamental of like base of it.
And then, to take that one stepfurther, my other thing I like
(25:48):
to say about it is a lot of usso it's one of two things we
either know what we need to bedoing to be healthy and take
care of ourselves, and there isa block there that is
subconscious or some other levelthat we're avoiding, or we're
disconnected to the point wherewe can't hear or know what we
need to be doing to act on.
So, when we know what we need tobe doing, or two, we're
(26:09):
disconnected so we're not evenhearing the signals and that, as
well as blocks, that need to beaddressed.
So it's those two things that Iwork with with women when we
start the program and reallythroughout it.
We use the other steps as tools.
But to start turning towardswhat those things are, some
people have to start off bygetting comfortable feeling
(26:29):
their body where other women arevery into their bodies and it's
it's an issue of they'retotally disconnected from where
they need to be in life.
They're living unaligned.
What used to work for themdoesn't work anymore.
Their hormones have shiftedwhere they're now valuing
different things than they usedto value and they just haven't
caught up with the fact thatlike it's time to shift.
So there's a lot of things thatcan play into burnout, but I
(26:52):
think the fundamental of it iswe stopped listening to our what
our needs are, for one of thosetwo reasons.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
That's.
Yeah, that's really interesting.
Yeah, I like that, thedisconnect, like it's, the
moment that you becomedisconnected from your needs,
what you value anymore, yourpassion, your purpose, all of
that.
I was just talking with anothernurse yesterday and I was
trying to help her get clear onan offer and who she could serve
(27:18):
.
And I was like, well, tell meabout what brings you to life,
Tell me about what energizes you, what excites you.
And she was like, wow, I guessI haven't thought about that in
years.
And I was like really, she'slike yeah, I've just, you know,
I've been working as a nurse andthen I'm taking care of my
(27:38):
husband who's sick, and I'vealso have an elderly parent and
I'm taking care of them.
And I was like that is it.
I think that's the reason somany nurses reach this point of
just such severe burnout,because we're so like wired into
this take care of everyone elsementality that when we're asked
(27:59):
like something really simple,like what makes you happy?
That's essentially all I wasasking is like what makes you
happy?
She's like I haven't eventhought about that.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
in years I've been so worried about making everybody
else happy, make sure everyoneelse is good.
That is such a common story issuch a common story.
It is crazy, but it's a lot ofwomen's realities and you know
what?
That's another thing we work ontoo, which honestly affects us
as women more than we know.
But, like that whole good girlconditioning, it's just
(28:27):
culturally passed down.
I mean, it's not intentionaland sometimes it is, but it's
just subtle things that societytaught us, as they raised us, to
be pleasant, to make thingseasy, to be the ones that create
the experience, that create theenvironment, to make other
people happy.
And it affects us in a verynegative way as we get older.
(28:47):
It's hard, it makes usdisconnect.
We're the first to shovesomething under the rug, we
downplay everything, and that'swhy community has such a big
part in this, because when youhear another woman say something
that's stressing her out, itmay be something that you are
shoving under the rug.
You're noticing, you're doingit.
You're like wait what?
Yeah, yeah, that does that.
That might be training me, yeah.
(29:08):
And it takes that to hear that,and that's why I started this
podcast.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yes, no.
I think this stuff is reallyimportant because it is like
that is wild to think about,like that where we can ask each
other a question as simple aslike yeah, what, what's making
you happy these days?
And it's like, honestly,couldn't tell you.
I am just so focused oneverybody.
It's like what?
Like what?
(29:33):
You can't give more than youhave.
Like you can't give more thanyou're receiving back.
Eventually, you will get to aplace.
I do think it manifests in allthose physical ways.
I know you have your own storywith that, but I think that's
just the body screaming likestop.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Listen to me, listen to me.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Exactly Like it's got to catch our attention at some
point before we just go into afull-blown dysfunction meltdown,
which, like I think that iswhat we get to.
Like.
That is the place that ourbodies get to if we are ignoring
it for such a long time.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I also think that, just as from a nurse, I think
like one in four women have beena nurse at one point.
There's like 50, I can'tremember million nurses or
something like that.
So a huge percentage of thepopulation is nursing.
But that, even as a nurse, thatis also something that's pushed
subtly onto you is toself-sacrifice, like to wait,
(30:28):
you know, like that it's a jokeabout holding your pee and all
that stuff and you knowsometimes but that is pressured
into you and it is.
I think it's intentional in someways.
But that is also why we nursesis the health care is the number
one field to burn out in Yodon't get me started on that,
because I will go off.
(30:49):
Get out of your soapbox.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I get really.
I get really annoyed and I'msorry if you're one of these
people I can't see you as beingone of these people but I get
really annoyed when people arelike nursing is my calling.
I'm like it is a career, andthe reason that people instill
(31:14):
this idea of like nursing beinga calling is so they can take
advantage of your ass and getyou working more than you need
to be working and caring forothers way more than you're
caring for yourself and keepingthe system running on your
energy and effort that you'renot fairly compensated for and
you're not given like safeconditions to even be working
with them.
Like don't call it a callingbecause the system is hearing us
(31:39):
say that and they're like thoseare the perfect people to keep
this thing running with, becausethey believe that it is on them
to keep it going because it istheir soul's purpose.
Your soul's purpose is not tohold up this like really failing
system failing but also verylike immoral system, like it is
(32:05):
dirty, what's going on in thissystem and so greedy.
It is not your job to uphold afailing, fraudulent, scammy
system like this.
It is your.
I do believe it can be yourcalling and your purpose to help
people in different ways.
But, like when we attach thatto the career, like nursing
(32:29):
itself, we are feeding, we arefeeding this culture that it is
on us to keep this thing running.
That maybe needs to fail inorder for people to wake up and
be like, okay, something's notworking, like what can we really
change?
Let's look at it, let's teaseit apart, let's kind of take the
(32:51):
pieces apart and figure outwhere the things that just
aren't working in our benefitanymore, so we can actually
begin to create solutions aroundthat.
But we're never going to get tothat point If nurses keep
coming in to save the day, likeit's enabling it's enabling the
system.
That is just not servinganybody and it's certainly not
(33:12):
serving us.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Well it it perpetuates this idea that being
a martyr is somehow some likesaintly noble thing.
And that is also a female thing.
That's also part of that goodgirl conditioning that it's
noble to sacrifice and it is not.
That's a trick.
That is like the.
That's a trick to hold you down.
(33:34):
I was like that's notpatriarchy, but we're about to
go off y'all.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
We are going off.
We are going off.
It's too late.
It's too late.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
It's very true, and healthcare relies on that.
That's why they want new nurses, that's why they want you to
not have a lot of experiencewhen they roll you into higher
education and that system.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Dude, I was on a call .
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I'm trying to get her on my podcast 70 year old nurse
this morning talking aboutthese same issues and she was on
her soapbox about this too.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
So we're not alone and we all have our soapbox.
Yeah, because I used to seethat like all the time it's like
, oh well, I'm not in it for themoney, and oh, I'm not in it
for the money, and oh well, I'mnot in it for this and that, and
I'm like, okay, yeah, we knowthat, we know you're not, but
like you need to quit with thismartyrdom thing because that's
(34:28):
why the system is the way it is,because you feed it this shit.
Like you feed it this shit.
Yeah, is it running this way?
Speaker 1 (34:36):
oh, I am, I am.
I like empathize with peoplewho believe their calling is to
like help others in, nurture andgive in that way like yes,
that's your calling, but ourhealth care system does not
support that and it will breakyou.
That's to say you shouldn't bein it, but when you go into it
they are not going to arm youwith what you need to survive.
(34:57):
That you will burn out if youdon't find ways to take care of
your mental out, if you don'tfind ways to take care of your
mental health, if you don't findways to hold boundaries and
also to find stress relief,because it is a very stressful
job it really is.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I you know California is a bit different experience.
Nursing in California.
I was like, okay, there aresome things that can be done to
ensure there is a fair treatmentof nurses, because there are
places like here that areimplementing some of those
things.
It's not perfect and it hassuch a long way to go before
(35:34):
it's really a system thatnurtures nurses and cares for
them and ways that they cancontinue to do this career for
long periods of time.
At the same time, I do see like,for example, in California,
you're required to take a breakand you're required to hand over
your phone and you're requiredto like step off the like you
can't.
(35:54):
Like I just remember so manyother places that I've worked
that I've just had to keepworking through my lunch break.
Or like I had to take my phonewith me into the break room, so
if they do need me, got to cutlunch short and it's like I get
30 minutes in this hellhole tolike get a quick bite and I
(36:15):
don't even really get that.
Like how does that make anysense?
Right, like there are just somethings that I think are very
basic, like allowing a nurse tohave a lunch break that people
just don't take seriously.
It's so looked over and maybeit's gotten better, since I've
(36:36):
worked in those areas.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
I'm not sure, nope Well so I've been traveling for
the last five years.
I've worked in tons offacilities.
I've worked all over thecountry and I've worked for good
hospital systems, but Utah hasmy favorite hospital system.
That really does make an effort.
It really does.
I think they were actually likerecognized by the Obama
administration at one point forbeing but that's where I started
(36:58):
and then from there I movedWest down to Florida and things
have progressively gotten alittle different.
But also COVID happened.
So I don't know, I think COVIDprobably had a part in that too.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
So yeah, yeah, I know .
Yeah, covid, I think woke up alot of us to the realities of
healthcare.
But yeah, there, there are justso many times, like you know
you mentioned like not peeingthroughout a shift Like there
have been times I literally assoon as I clocked out, like ran
to the bathroom.
I feel like I peed for five anda half minutes straight and I
(37:32):
was like, oh my God, like Ithink I just went 14 hours
without peeing and like, and youdidn't drink any water either.
Yeah, and like the reason Icould do that is because I
didn't have a second to drinkany water as well, but it's like
that's insane, that I didn'treally get a lunch break, I
didn't get to pee, like I it wason my shoulders to like make
(37:54):
sure the world wasn't fallingapart.
Like that cannot be on oneperson and it has to be.
Like this messaging needs to bestopped around this, and like
the whole martyrdom thing needsto be stopped.
You're not doing any good forthe world by being a martyr, in
fact, like if you think aboutthis as like an abusive
(38:15):
relationship.
I'm not trying to be dramatic.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
No, I want to write a book called healthcare, like
and is my abusive boyfriend, orsomething like that, because it
is relationship.
I'm not trying to be dramatic.
No, I want to write a bookcalled health care, like and is
my abusive boyfriend, orsomething like that, because it
is.
They're so similar so similar.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Or like think about if you had, like, an addict
child.
You know that it's like, youknow their behavior needs to
change, but you keep giving themmoney for drugs, like do you
really think that's what's gonnalike?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
turn their life life around.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Your narcissistic parent like yes, exactly Like we
know these things right.
Like we know, if you have anaddict in your family, you don't
keep giving them money becausethey're going to go spend it on
the drugs.
But there are so many familymembers who get caught in that
enabling cycle because they wantto be the one to come in and
(39:01):
save the day.
It's almost just as much amental issue on the enabler as
it is the addict.
Like there's like some deep,deep stuff to dig into there we
(39:22):
need to evaluate.
As nurses, I think we need toevaluate where our value is
coming from and why we feel theneed to receive or to why we
feel the need to get value or tofeel like we have value through
being valuable to other people,rather than what innately
exists within us.
I think it's important to likekind of do a deep dive into our
inner landscape and be like allright, what's going on here?
Like I've done that.
(39:42):
You know I've been in therapyand they were like well, don't
you find it interesting that youknow this is how your family
dynamic was and this is how thiswas.
And then you went into a careerwhere you're the caretaker and
I'm like we're in a cycle, we'restuck in a pattern.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
I was going to say there is a pattern with a lot
not say all because there's somany nurses out there.
But I do think there issomething innately in some of us
where we're trying to provesomething, we're trying to
rechange a pattern, we're tryingto make something, we're trying
to make up for something or begood enough in some way is why
we put ourselves in thesesituations.
I know, for me it definitelywas.
(40:25):
I did not have a greatchildhood.
There's a lot of trauma andhaving to be an adult before I
had to.
And for me I remember this wasso funny.
My mom I remember like talkingabout how much she respected ICU
nurses, which is so funnybecause, like I became an ICU
nurse was like a third career.
But it's like now that I lookback on it I'm like this is
probably the role I've respectedmyself in the most.
I think it's just my mombecause of that comment.
(40:46):
But you know, ladies, it isstuff like that.
So you're trying to.
We all have that voice in theback of our heads, that
something, and I think nursesespecially.
There's something there to whywe're drawn to this system there
is.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I mean, I used to do it in relationships too, not
just in my career.
I used to do it inrelationships where I would be
just overly generous, like,overly like, trying to take care
of everyone else, like in thisthought pattern of like man, I
give so much, like, why can'tother people give back to me in
the same way that I give?
And then I woke up one day tolike oh, that's where I'm
getting my value.
Man, I give so much Like, whycan't other people give back to
me in the same way that I give?
And then I woke up one day tolike oh, that's where I'm
(41:23):
getting my value.
I think that I have no worth.
Like, I actually believe thatmy self-worth is zero and
therefore I need to go out andprove to everybody that I do
have some.
I actually need to get valuefrom other people in my life by
showing up in these excessiveways, by being excessively
(41:46):
generous, by being excessivelyloyal, or what I thought was
loyal but really was just aselfish way of being like, see
me, see me, I'm good enough, I'ma good person.
Yeah, like, don't leave me.
Don't you see how much I'm agood person?
Yeah, like, don't leave me.
Don't you see how much I'mdoing for you?
I've shown you, my physicalvalue.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Like stay with me forever because I have this
inherent value to you by showingup and being this generous
person and always being therefor you and dropping everything
for you and all of those kindsof ways of showing up in
relationships.
I think is the same reason Iended up as a nurse was like I
needed to figure out like I havevalue outside of how I show up
(42:31):
in the world.
Whoa, sorry, I'm getting toocrazy.
I'm getting like verypassionate.
Yeah, like outside of, outsideof how I show up for other
people, outside of the valuethat I'm bringing up to.
Like you gotta stop searchingoutside yourself.
Like I honestly feel like one ofthe moments that I woke up to
(43:10):
that was when I was like staringinto this pill bottle wondering
if there were enough left inthere to take my own life.
I was so miserable and so stuckin the same cycles that I was
just like I'm so done with this.
Like why do I keep getting inthese same cycles in my
relationships and my mentalhealth?
(43:30):
Like I feel like every month Iwas in the same kind of chaotic
situation and I was like I amdone and I was driving home I
remembered that my roommate hadsome like leftover opioids from
a wisdom teeth removal surgeryand I knew where they were.
I was like I'm going to checkand see if there's enough in
there to like do anything.
(43:51):
And I opened it up, there'sfour in the bottle and I'm like,
okay, well, like four pills isnot going to do anything
anything.
So guess I got to figure outwhat I'm going to do with my
life because I am in thesecycles.
So I can either use this as anopportunity to wake up to why I
keep getting in them or I cankeep looking for ways to take,
(44:11):
like you know, just end it all,I guess.
And I felt like this can be awake up call for me, Like this
can be a turning point.
This can be the moment that Ireally do a deep dive into why
I'm showing up in these ways,why I keep ending up in the same
cycles.
And I did Like I went into adeep dive into, like, the way
(44:33):
that I operate, did a lot ofwork around like my past, a lot
of like inner child stuff, allthe things, All the things man
to be like okay, I am worthy oflove outside of anything
external, like I just am, period.
There's nothing I need to do toprove that.
(44:55):
There's nothing I need to be toprove that I just am, and I
think that's when everythingshifted for me.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Beautiful.
So tell me what was the firststep you took.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
A lot of like, a lot of inner dialogue, like I did
this practice where I journaledout this dialogue between my
present self and the like littlegirl that I felt like kept
causing havoc in my life.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Oh, I love it.
Okay, like I love inner childwork, it's very powerful for me.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah, and I remember like writing it out as a
journaling practice, like Iwould write me colon and then I
would say what I want to say toher and then I would write her
colon and then she would kind ofsay what, like she was feeling
and what I felt like was thething that was surfacing.
And I just did that little likedialogue.
(45:52):
For a while I was justjournaling, like me and her,
back and forth, back and forth,back and forth, until I finally
felt like we came to anunderstanding, like oh, this is
what you're here for, this iswhat you're trying to
communicate, this is what you'retrying to like, show me that
you need, or this is the waythat you felt, like you needed
to be seen or heard or validatedin some way.
(46:15):
And then it was kind of likeyou're sitting across the table
from this version of you andthen you just like reach out and
grab it by the hand and you'relike you know what, we're going
to be okay, and we're going todo this together.
And then I think, honestly, thatshifts so much Once that
version of you feels like oh,okay, you do see me, you do hear
(46:37):
me, you do understand me.
For some reason, it kind ofsilences a lot of the chaos that
they're causing.
And that was it for me.
Of course, there was a lot morethat I did and a lot more of
that work that I was involved inand, you know, really got
serious and therapy reallystarted shifting how I saw
(46:59):
myself.
I did a lot of work around kindof my own worth and things like
that, but that was one of thepractices that, like when I
think back to that time was waspivotal for me.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Oh, I love that you say that, yeah, it's been very
powerful for me as well.
Very powerful Just going backand like telling myself like I'm
the one that takes care ofeverything.
It turns out okay and I'm theone that's got you, because I
feel like for me, I was alwayswaiting for someone to come like
save me and make it okay.
And it was so powerful themoment that I decided like I'm
the one that's gonna make itokay and I told her that.
(47:32):
You know, like I told some ofthe most vulnerable times in my
life that like it all turns outand like where the woman makes
that happen, it's just such alike.
It's like something inside,just like closed a little bit.
I mean it didn't completelyheal, the doors didn't stand
shut.
I come up against new versionsI have to deal with all the time
, but it's very powerful everytime I get there, you know yes,
(47:54):
it's so powerful to step intothat like, to step into like I'm
I'm, yes, like I'm the creator,I make this shit happen.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
I'm in the driver's seat, yeah, because I think for
a while, like if you have, youknow, for me, like if I having
like a little five or six yearold Micah driving a bus, there
were a lot of people that weregetting hurt.
We, we were running over signs,we were running over
pedestrians, we were off-roading.
It was crazy.
And then, as soon as I, like,was in the back of the bus,
(48:24):
decided I'm going to come up tothe front of the bus, have a
little conversation with littleMicah, who's driving this thing,
causing havoc.
I mean, no six-year-old shouldbe driving a bus.
I come up to the front, I'm likeyou got to get out of the
driver's seat, I got to takeover from here and we have a
little conversation, we come toan understanding.
I'm like I'm not saying youcan't be here, I'm just saying
(48:46):
you can't be driving, you can behere, you just have to get in
the passenger seat and I'm goingto hold your hand while I'm
driving.
I'm going to let you know likeI'm still here, we're still
doing this thing together.
You're still in the bus, you'restill a part of this, but I've
got to take over.
I'm the one with the driver'slicense, I'm the one with like
I'm the responsible adult here,and it's almost like you got to
(49:08):
have that conversation and belike.
I think the important piece ofthis is truly the like you can
be here, like I'm not kickingyou out and I'm not saying you
don't have a place in my life,like you absolutely do.
Every version of us has such animportant role to play and like
who we become, yes, honoringeach, honoring each person
(49:29):
you've been because they were sovital for you.
Along this journey, like you,were doing the best you could
with what you have yes, yeah,and like really recognizing that
and that version of me beinglike, yeah, you can be here, you
have a role, you have.
Yes, yeah, and like reallyrecognizing that and that
version of me being like, yeah,you can be here, you have a role
, you have a function, but yourrole cannot be driving this bus
anymore.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Right, we got you.
We got it from here.
I love that.
I love that so much.
This is a powerful place toclose off, I think.
So let me, before we go,let's's let's talk about.
If people want to learn moreabout you, learn more about your
services, how are they going tofind you?
Speaker 2 (50:06):
yeah, so I have a couple communities, as I
mentioned.
I am all about buildingcommunity right now, um.
So one of my communities iscalled schoolcom slash microdose
and it's a community all aboutmicrodosing for mental health.
I share a lot in there about myown experience.
I also share differenttrainings that would help people
(50:28):
get started if they wanted tolearn how to get started in a
microdosing journey.
And then I also have acommunity that is for new nurse
coaches and nurse entrepreneursand that is schoolcom slash
nursepreneur.
And that's another one that ifpeople are looking to maybe go
into business as nurses, theywant to figure out how to lay a
(50:50):
foundation for doing that.
That would be where they canfind me.
It's school with a K the coolway of spelling school.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Um, yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
I have kind of two different Instagrams for those.
One is more around themicro-using stuff that's
transformed with Micah, and thenthe other one is Micah helps
nurses.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
So I'm going to put links to these in the show notes
eventually, when this ispublished.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
I got so much going on.
I got too many too manyInstagram, such it gets wild.
But I got a lot of passions,got a lot of things that I enjoy
and want to bring to the table.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
So before we go, let's talk.
Let's talk about what you do,what your number one stress
relief is.
So you got a lot on your plate.
How do you manage that stress?
What's the number one thing?
Speaker 2 (51:35):
you do thing to do Changing my environment?
Yeah, like if I have beensitting at home in front of my
computer.
I'm overwhelmed.
I'm like in back to back toback calls.
The first thing that I think todo is get up, move around, go
for a walk or get in my car, godrive to sunset cliffs where I
(51:58):
can watch the sunset likesomething that gets me out of my
environment.
I believe that when we get outof our environment, we get out
of the thought loop that we'rein, because usually it's
associated with the environmentthat we're in.
So I just change up myphysiology, Like I move my body,
get in a different environment,go get some sunlight all that
good stuff.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
I love it.
Great advice.
I'm a big one about myenvironment too.
It affects the way I feel.
I think it's part of being likethe neurodivergent brain, like
the ADHD, works super effectiveby our environment.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Yeah, and bonus points If you can get into an
environment that activates theplayful side of you.
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