March 11, 2025 • 41 mins
Discover the transformative power of the Enneagram for empty nesters with Debbie Huckabee, certified Enneagram coach and therapist. After spending years prioritizing others' needs as a Type Nine "Peacemaker," Debbie found liberation through understanding her personality type just before her nest began emptying. This knowledge sparked an inspiring journey from advertising executive to mental health counselor, proving it's never too late to pursue your passions.
The conversation demystifies the Enneagram's nine personality types, explaining how this framework reveals our core motivations and fears, not just our behaviors. Unlike typical personality assessments, the Enneagram illuminates why we do what we do, helping empty nesters develop profound self-compassion during this transitional life phase. Whether you're feeling lost without your parenting role or uncertain about your identity beyond "mom" or "dad," understanding your type creates a foundation for authentic growth.
Particularly enlightening is the discussion about how the Enneagram transforms marriages during the empty nest years. When children leave, couples suddenly face each other again, often discovering they've grown apart or communicate differently than they once did. Debbie shares how knowledge of her husband's Type Seven personality completely changed their interaction patterns, turning potential conflicts into opportunities for deeper connection. For anyone navigating this relationship transition, the recommended resources—including "Becoming Us" by Beth McCord and "The Path Between Us" by Susan Stabile—offer practical guidance for reconnection.
Ready to transform your empty nest into what one guest calls "free birding"? This episode provides concrete next steps for exploring your true self through the Enneagram, whether you're completely new to the concept or looking to deepen your understanding. Discover how this ancient wisdom tool can help you embrace the next chapter of life with renewed purpose and authentic joy.
We want to hear from you! Reach out to us on socials or at emptynestquestpod@gmail.com to share how our conversations are landing with you! xo-Melynda and Jennifer
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Empty Nest Quest, the podcast where we
redefine midlife and embracethe journey ahead.
Join your hosts, jennifer andMelinda, as we share inspiring
stories, helpful hints,entrepreneurial advice and tips
that will have you thriving notjust surviving, during this
transformative time of your life.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Whether you're approaching the empty nest phase
or already navigating it, we'rehere to support you every step
of the way.
Let's embark on this questtogether.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Okay, all right, hello, hello, all right y'all.
Today, on the empty nest questwe have Debbie Huckabee and I am
so excited, debbie, that youare here.
Debbie is I'm just going tolike make you blush for a second
but Debbie is.
We met years ago when the kidswere in elementary school and I
(00:52):
have just always thought theworld of Debbie.
And now to me, debbie is theperfect guest for our podcast
because I mean, I can't wait foryou to share your story.
But you have just taken likethings you love, things you were
already good at, and just kindof kept balling it up and
balling it up and recreating itand tying a bow on it and like
(01:15):
giving yourself this beautifulcareer, now that you, like us,
are an empty nester.
And I do just want to say we'remissing Jennifer today.
She has the flu, her.
And I do just want to say we'remissing Jennifer today.
She has the flu, which stinks,but I'm glad she's taking care
of herself.
That's why we kind of partneredon this little venture.
(01:35):
So Debbie is with us todaybecause she is an Enneagram
coach.
I love the Enneagram andJennifer's very new.
She's not really into theEnneagram.
And Jennifer's very new, she'snot really into the Enneagram.
It's just never kind of fallenin her you know path and so I
have some new you know some newquestions from her and um and
(01:56):
then also a counselor.
So I just think that you knowyou getting to talk about all of
that.
So so tell us a little bitabout you and how you wound up
in this really awesome field ofwork.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Well, thank you for that intro.
Yes, I am blushing as a nineI'm like, but well, my story
kind of I'll just start kind ofempty nesting stage is it was
not all the way empty nesting,but beginning to about right
before the pandemic really.
I had heard about the Road Backto you, which is Ian Morgan
(02:32):
Cron's book.
That's probably the most Iwould say one of the most
popular and I would recommendanybody that's interested to
start there.
It's a great kind of entrywayinto the Enneagram and so I read
that I'd heard about it and Ikind of had put it off and I
read it and I just it reallyresonated with me and reading
the entire book helps because itreally helps you understand all
(02:53):
the numbers.
We all can take those freetests online, but I would
recommend you know reading thebook and kind of identifying why
you do what you do.
I think for me what it was, andso as a nine I had spent so much
of my life doing things thatothers wanted me to do.
I didn't want to rock the boatand that was just sort of the
way I navigated the world and itwas wonderful.
I have no regrets of what I'vedone, but after that I thought,
(03:15):
wow, really, this is justprofoundly changing my life, and
so I really started digginginto what I wanted to do.
I've always wanted to helppeople from the very beginning,
and I really just and more thanjust help people, I really just
wanted to walk alongside peopleand do life with them, and so I
began.
I was certified as an Enneagramcoach and I did that.
I worked with individuals and Ialso worked with work teams,
(03:37):
which was really fun.
I really enjoyed that Just kindof help build teams and help
them understand each other inthe workplace, understand their
manager.
And then that all happened.
Covid hit, of course, and thenI lost my job in advertising,
and so it was kind ofinteresting that I had just
become certified, lost my job,and so I did that for a little
(03:59):
bit and then I decided, hey, I'mgoing to go back to school
because I want to go back toschool forever, and I've just
put it off because you know, youknow how it is Life gets rough.
So I was like I can do this.
So I went to Liberty Online,which was great, and I started
and I thought, oh, I'm going tobe like the old lady in these
classes.
Come to find out they werepretty much all like me.
(04:21):
I mean a lot of folks in thisstage of life.
Especially with COVID, peoplewere trying to make some changes
.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So when you started school just cause I feel like
that's so inspiring to theladies that you know are
listening how, where were your?
How old were your boys?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Like the youngest was still home.
The other two were off incollege so I have more time.
He was driving.
You know, you guys know that um, so yeah, I had some time to,
just, you know, pour into school.
So, yeah, I mean I would, and Iput it off for so many years
and I wish I hadn't.
So, um, an online school is sodoable.
You can take it with you whenyou go on vacation with your
family.
Um, it's so different yeah, yeah, yeah, it was it was really
(05:04):
doable, took me about two and ahalf years.
So I have a degree in clinicalmental health counseling, so
that's what.
So I was still coaching duringthat time and then, once I
graduated, I know that I wasworking in community health for
a while doing my internship andsuch.
So now I've transitioned intofull time therapist but I use
the Enneagram all the time withmy clients.
(05:24):
It's actually my intake paperwork.
So if my client knows theirtype, that's a huge.
It's a huge help for me becausethat I know kind of how they
view the world and how how theykind of show up and navigate the
world.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So oh, that's so cool , yeah.
And if they don't, if so, ifsomebody, so, if they, okay, let
me back up.
So if they know their type, youknow obviously.
Well, let me ask you this yeah.
You had people that thoughtthey knew their type, but then
they come and really startunpacking things with you and
(05:57):
they realize they're a differenttype.
Have you had that happen?
We haven't, and.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I have had that happen with coaching before.
Like I've worked with peoplelong enough where, like they'll
maybe try a number on for alittle bit and then I've
actually had one that yeah, sothat does happen.
I haven't got to that placewith my therapy clients, but
it's a lot of the collegestudents that I work with.
(06:22):
It's super great for them too,because they're kind of in that
new stage of life where they'retrying to figure out things and
who they are.
So I use it sort of as a tool,launching pad for them
Discovering who they are.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Well, yeah, cause I feel like it's funny, cause I
feel like, even though we feelso different in our bodies maybe
we think our college people arereally like there's so many
similarities to the phase oflife we're in now.
Right, because it's a different.
It's a whole new chapter.
The world opens up in a reallydifferent way, which we're
probably going to look back,like we always do.
(06:56):
We always look back and we'relike god, if only I just would
have been grateful for thatseason.
You know, wish I could go backand do it.
This season is going to be thatseason.
You know, wish I could go backand do it.
This season is going to be thatseason we look back on in no
time at all that you know wecould seize the opportunity, go
back to school, or, you know,maybe just find a little more.
(07:19):
Maybe it's not go back toschool, but it's just find
something for ourselves, right?
I love that you mentioned as anine and I do just want to say,
if you're listening and you'renot familiar with the Enneagram,
there are types and every.
You know there are nine numbersand I'm going to let Debbie
(07:42):
tell you a little more aboutthat, but that's why she said
she's a nine.
If you're not an Enneagramperson and nines are totally go
with the flow, the sweetest, thesweetest of the whole.
That's not fair to say.
But I love a nine I'm not one,so I can say that.
But it's funny that you saythat about how, like, you just
kind of go with the flow and youjust did like what other people
(08:03):
wanted you to and kind of keptthe peace right and yeah.
But then it gave you but.
But when what I find to be soawesome about Enneagram is you
learn that you learn more aboutyour type, and then you were
like wait, I can really.
It kind of gave you thatfeeling of I, I don't
(08:24):
empowerment Is that the rightword?
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Absolutely the perfect word, I mean empowerment
, it kind of it put language tohow I saw things and like, for
me, the people who know me knowme, I'm not competitive at all.
I have three boys who are supercompetitive and I really
thought of something I wastragically flawed, Like I had to
change it, Like something wasreally wrong with me, and then I
realized, oh wow, like that'swho I am and I don't need to be
(08:49):
anyone else except I just hopeboth teams have fun.
I truly do, and my kids thinkI'm insane, but I was able.
You're right, it empowers youto go.
Hey, like this is how I'mcreated.
This is how God wants me tonavigate in the world created.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
This is how God wants me to navigate in the world and
yeah, yeah, so well, let me letme backtrack a little bit.
So I know that.
Say like um, so I'm going toask questions, a couple of
questions that Jennifer's sinceshe isn't here, she would ask
and um, then some more questions.
But so at first, like Jennifer,um, jennifer is speaking for
(09:25):
all of y'all who are not really.
Maybe you've just heardEnneagram, you see, like memes,
(09:49):
you hear Enneagram, people talkabout their number and we
probably get professionally inour relationships, just where
you see that with your clientsit's had the biggest impact.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, sure, sure, I think all of us know
Myers-Briggs, we know StrengthFinders, all those and I think
the Enneagram is very similar.
It's a tool to help understandyour personality.
But I think the great thingabout the Enneagram is it goes
beyond that.
It kind of gets down to yourcore motivations, your core
fears, your core desires and soreally why you do what you do.
(10:15):
So I think, when you can help,when you understand your heart
and why you're making thechoices that you make right or
wrong, good or bad I thinkthat's a great tool to help you
understand your.
I think it just it's awareness.
So I think it goes a little bitfurther.
And also the Enneagram is superflexible.
So, okay, so I'm a nine, but I'malso connected to six and three
numbers.
So in times of growth, I'll goto a three, which is my sort of
(10:38):
entrepreneur side, my goalsetting side, and then also six
is my.
I'm a very loyal person and sothings like that, I think, make
it a much more exciting tool touse, because there's so many
different layers.
I could go on and on and on, Iwon't, but it's very dynamic and
you can just know a little bitor you can actually dig deeper
and really learn a lot, and Ithink you said this, melinda.
(11:01):
I think the best thing is thatit helps.
You see that other people havedifferent lenses, how they view
the world.
Like oftentimes we'll say why isthat person so upset about X, y
, z?
It doesn't even bother me and Ithink it's just because we have
different lenses and again,they're not right or wrong, bad
or good.
It's just so.
It helps and has helped me andhas helped a lot of my clients.
(11:21):
Just have a better, greaterempathy towards others.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, I really I think I think that's probably as
much as I at first, like yousaid, learned about myself and
that was really helpful, likeyou said, just to see some of
the things that I paint inmyself as a flaw, to look and go
.
Oh wait, when you kind of backup and see it as kind of your
whole type, I'm a six and it wasfunny because, like when I was
(11:50):
going into the Enneagram andlearning it the first time I
took the test, debbie I was.
I wish I had a copy because Ithink Enneagram people would
think it was funny.
Every single number except forlike eight and one other number
were all together, like the.
(12:13):
I was like say it was somethinglike this.
It was something like I was 17points to six, 15 points, all
the rest of the numbers, andthen like 14 points and then,
like you know, two, two pointsand eight, two points.
I was like what the heck?
How am I supposed to know whatnumber I am?
(12:35):
I think I think I'm just like arainbow.
I don't think I'm a number.
I was like what's wrong?
I think I just took it at apoint where I had done so much
self-development and therapy andlike cause I love this whole
world, you know that you and Icould dive into, and so I think
so.
Then somebody said what yousaid.
They were like an Enneagramperson told me do dive into each
number, read about the numbers,and the one that probably gets
(12:58):
under your skin a little bit isprobably your number, cause
you're going to be like Whoa,you know, when it talks about
core fear.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
That's exactly right.
And also where you move to.
That for me was huge, because Igo to unhealthy six, which is
worst case scenario thinking andthe world's ending, and that's
where I go, believe it or not,as a nine.
So that really will help tokind of understand.
And again, there's subtypes,there's tri-types, it goes on
and on.
But it also helps youunderstand that every nine
(13:27):
doesn't look the same, likepeople oftentimes will say to me
well, I don't want to be in abox, and I say no, it's not a
box, it's just it's showing youwhere you are and then how you
can get out of the box if youwant.
So cause I think also, we'reall the numbers, all of us are
all the numbers are moredominant and help us navigate
the world better.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, so that helps too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
As a nine two, I had like four that I was tied with
because I didn't know who I was.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, yeah, well, everybody should.
Well, no, you gotta be a two,you gotta be a two.
And I was like, well, you wouldthink so, but I'll back up in
case somebody's like what theheck are y'all talking about?
So, so on the the Enneagram,it's like just imagine the clock
, you know, except you have justnine numbers, so it's just a
wheel, and every number kind ofhas, you know, its little tag
(14:17):
that people say it is, and six,you know, says that it's the
loyalist or the loyal one orwhatever, but also kind of like
known as being the person thatlike knows where all the
emergency exits are.
They always kind of have thestrategy, the plan, because
they're we always want a six ona girl's weekend.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I mean right, because she's going to be ready,
because the nines, she's notgoing to even have a plan at all
.
Exactly, A nines might not bepacked.
No, no, that's too muchplanning.
Oh yes, so we're just going tobe.
We're going to even have a planat all.
So exactly, and nines might notbe packed.
No, no, that's too muchplanning.
Oh yes, so we're just going tobe.
We're going to be along for theride.
But the six you want your sixhere, because they're going to
have the band-aids and the adviland all the things yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
so so I think it's funny because I think, because
that is, I mean, I am so likethat, like very big sistery and
I am a big sister but um, but Ithink that so every you know
every part on the wheel, everynumber has like it's kind of
(15:20):
what motivates you and andthere's like kind of those
positive motivators Like we canall feel in ourselves, like when
we feel inspired.
And then there's like a fear,there's like something that
maybe a wound or something thatsometimes we act out of.
And that also helps you figureout your type.
If you don't know your type andto me, if you want the quick
(15:41):
and dirty and you don't want todo a test, if you read those
parts of each type, you'reprobably going to be like, oh
gosh, that person read myjournal.
You know who wrote that.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
That's what it feels like You're right it does, and
that's how I knew I was a six.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
That's how I knew I was a six.
I was like oh, unfortunately, Ithink this is me over here.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Well, so my, so my sloth is like my you know kind
of where I go and I'm like I amnot lazy at all, but it's not
lazy in the sense of not doing.
It's lazy is putting things offLike I don't cause, I don't
want to feel uncomfortable.
So I don't like doing my taxes,not that anybody does, but I
mean like those kind of hardthings really.
I put them off as long aspossible, and so when I was able
(16:23):
to recognize that and say hey,like I got to make a schedule,
I've got to set some deadlinesfor myself, because this is just
how I'm going to just naturallybe.
I've got to set up some thingsin my life to help that, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
So again, it's just awareness, it's not and I think
people get kind of freaked outabout it Like, oh, it's, it's,
it's just another tool, it's notlike Absolutely, absolutely and
honestly, when you get into thewhatever tools someone's
interested in, to me the toolsall complement each other and
help you understand absolutelythe other one's even better.
(16:57):
Um, so let's say one of thethings that jennifer did say so
she's had, and I feel like along time ago I had stuff like
this pop up on my feed but Ihaven't in a time.
But she said that she has hadsome people that have put she's
seen on Facebook.
Maybe that kind of had somebacklash about the Enneagram,
like they were sort of afraid ofit afraid of its origins.
(17:20):
So I would be curious just tohear if you've heard any of that
or, if you like, what yourexperience if you've heard any
of that or like what kind ofsome of the myths and
misunderstandings of theEnneagram might be.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
No, I've heard that often.
I did a group a couple of timesand I had one person that had
you know, and I think it's.
It has a history.
I mean, it's been around for along, long, long time and so it
has, you know, some ties tomaybe some things that aren't
Christian based.
But I don't.
I use Enneagram from aChristian lens, so I think it's
really how you use it and so,yeah, I think there is stuff out
(17:59):
there, but it just depends onhow you're going to use it in
your life so yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Well, I think, I think that I don't know how to
please like say, melinda, youdidn't say that.
Well, it won't hurt my feelings, because I want to say this
like compassionately I feel likewe are in such an information
overload time, number one.
There's just so muchinformation out there and so,
(18:28):
because there's so much, by thetime information reaches us it's
almost like this high-pitchedshrill scream to get our
attention, you know.
So it's probablyover-enthusiastically being
thrown in our face or fearfullyto make us actually look over
there because we're sodistracted, right.
So I feel like right now, Imean, we can see it politically,
(18:49):
we can see it religiously, withgood gracious, we can see it
with just high school sportsteams there's just so much
virtual now.
So I feel like what happens andgod, you and I could just have
like a series about all thesethings.
I just feel like we all kind ofhave such like heightened,
we're so on, perched for to jumpinto fight or flight or to, you
(19:13):
know, defend or attack, becausewe're so there's like this high
, intense, like overwroughtnervous system that we're
walking around with people withtheir shoulders up.
You know, like literallysometimes I'm like you know,
even to myself, like oh,absolutely.
Cool, and so I think whathappens is we just forget to be
(19:36):
critical thinkers.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, because people can use.
They can use a pulpit as aweapon, they can use prayer as a
weapon, I mean, depending onwhat's coming out of our mouths
when we pray, you know.
And so I think for me I mean,like I teach yoga, I'm a yoga
therapist, I have a friend whois a very gifted astrologer and
(20:04):
I know that's like super scaryto people and that have never
heard of it, but it's just to melike a amplified Enneagram is
what it seems to me like.
It's just got so many detailsand I'm like, as she's talking,
I just I don't always get chillsand I think of course God would
create a universe that was sointricately woven.
(20:25):
I don't know.
I just feel like the more I'mexposed to, the more deeply I
feel God in it, the more I knowthe faith of my childhood grows
and grows and grows and growsand expands and like explodes
and makes my heart and mindbigger.
Now, I'm not saying thateverything that makes me love
(20:45):
everything, some things I'm like, yeah, that's a bit much for me
, that's out of my comfort zoneand that's okay For yourself.
Yes, I just, I do just want toencourage people to just use
your discernment, you know, yourown prayerful discernment, to
decide, instead of being, likeyou know, too thrown off.
(21:05):
And I think I mean, and I thinkJennifer that was kind of her
thing and she was like I feel,you know, too thrown off and I
think I mean, and I thinkJennifer, um, that was kind of
her thing, and she was like, Ifeel, you know, I just want to
know cause she's just not everbeen interested enough to kind
of dig in and I wanted us to dothis episode cause I love it.
So, um, so, if you're new andyou are kind of curious, so
you've mentioned Ian Cron's book, yes, is there.
(21:26):
Is there anything else youwould recommend?
To like a newbie, that I would.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
If you want to do a test which I mean I'm not
against tests at all.
I think they're very helpfuland my clients even now I give
them, but I give them the readytest.
It's through the EnneagramInstitute.
That's what I would recommend.
I think you do have to pay forit it's maybe $12, but it's very
comprehensive and it gives youall.
It's a 45 minute test, so it'snot answer a few questions swipe
(21:55):
, swipe, swipe.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
you know that's the one I did.
Yeah, it's long, but it iscomprehensive.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
It's very comprehensive and I would
recommend starting there andthen also, you know, read some
books like here, don Russo, russHudson, like that's a pretty
in-depth book.
But those are some other.
Here's one the Sacred Enneagramis a great.
Oh, I love that book.
(22:20):
Who wrote that?
I can't remember, yeah,christopher Hurt, but he's got,
I think, another one.
I would recommend that.
And then, yeah, I mean, Itotally agree with you, Melinda,
I think you're right.
I think fear makes people theydon't understand that they don't
know anything about it, sothey're automatically going to
be like oh, I think, justexplore for yourself.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, I can't wait for.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Jennifer to see what she is.
I feel like I have an idea.
But you know, I will say is doyou feel like this is true?
I always heard, um, I used tolisten to.
So a friend of mine, amy, and Ilike got super, you can get it
she's a one, and so if she getson something, girlfriend's gonna
become the you know expert ohyeah I go with her because I I
(23:04):
just like I don't know I'm, youknow I get into something too,
but it kind of from a differentlens.
but yes, we kind of go deep whenwe go.
So she and I were like reallylistening to all the Enneagram
stuff for a long time.
I swear I bet she's listened toevery Ian Cron podcast episode
ever made and they're so good.
Oh, they're so good.
And it's so fun to listen topeople and how it helps them
(23:25):
grow and these big like ahamoments they have, and and just
to find I think sometimes it'sreally hard to find
self-compassion when you're justtrying to tell yourself to be
self-compassionate but you don't.
That that, to me, keeps you tooin your head about it, you know
.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, but I will just say you know, I've always heard
, don't?
You don't want to label otherpeople or say what you think
other people are like.
Well, that's.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
That was one of like, when you asked about myths or
things, that that's what I dowould warn people because it's
super easy to say, oh my husband, I'm sure he's a.
So I would encourage you'regoing to think it, of course,
but I would maybe not say it outloud and then help them, just
encourage them maybe to explorefor themselves, because I do
find when married couples, whenthey know their or even
(24:14):
relationships in general, whenthey know each other's numbers,
it is eye-opening, like for meand my husband it was game
changer, like it totally madesense.
He's a seven.
This example I always use COVIDhits.
I'm freaking out oh my gosh,what's going to happen?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
He literally calls me on the phone as a seven,
because sevens just loveadventure.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
They get bored super easy.
He's like we should go toEurope because this is the time
to go.
You know you're insane, butsince I know that's how he
operates, now it makes completesense.
And so I just kind of shake myhead and say, yeah, were you
like, are you crazy?
I mean that's insane.
Who would do that?
But a seven probably wouldthink that.
(24:54):
So yeah, so again, yeah, it iseasy to try to type your whole
family, but you know, I thinkit's something a whole family
could do together actually andjust really get curious.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
One of my friends at her old company.
They had everybody's likechildhood, childhood picture and
their number at their officedoor.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
She said it was so great.
Now she said it was so greatand then they would have to kind
of circle back at staffmeetings and be like just want
to remind you that just likebecause someone's a two doesn't
mean you always should assumethat they're in helper mode and
that you know like it's kind oflike also just that reminder.
It's just a tool.
(25:39):
You said you know earlier.
We all have a little bit ofevery type.
I can't remember this guy'sname to give him credit, but I
was listening to a podcast withan Enneagram coach and he did
such a beautiful job of talkingabout how you know to me, kind
of, if you think about the En indifferent like maybe hobbies or
(26:01):
relationships, you might findyourself feeling kind of a
different little flavor of whoyou are.
And he was like so that's whatkind of helps you become like a
fuller expression of you know.
(26:23):
The gifts that God's placed inyou is cool to think about it
that way.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
To me.
That's what I mean about fluidand flexible.
You can know your wings, solike a nine I have an eight and
a one wing and so I use I thinkof it kind of like to your point
.
They're almost like they seasonyour number, like you can take
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
I think, the more you just know about the numbers.
It's just to your point.
Yeah, it helps you understandpeople in general.
I agree with you right now weneed a little bit of that.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, I do think it gives you a lot more compassion
for people, like if you have atype of person like, like, say,
I'm intimidated by peoplesometimes.
Like, say, a person that wouldbe like an eight I wouldn't be
intimidated by, because eightsare kind of assertive, strong
(27:18):
leaders.
You say more, I'm going to sayit all wrong, but no, that's
exactly right Very, you know,very dominant.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
They kind of take charge.
They come in a room and as ahealthy eight they're super
powerful and successful and doreally well in the world.
But as an unhealthy eight theycan be very scary and
detrimental to an organization.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Things like that and if you have like a peacekeeping
type it can freak me out.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
It's funny because I actually am an eight dominant
wing.
Like I can pull into that eightstrength at times and it helps
me go.
Okay, I'm going to.
I need some some of that rightnow.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
But it helped me understand that, ok, there, that
is not the only layer to thatperson, not at all.
Get to know that person andthat that.
So maybe like that person leadswith that assertiveness, and
then behind that assertiveness,assertiveness is their softness.
Just like somebody who leadslike you, with like this
(28:20):
softness doesn't mean thatyou're a pushover.
You have strength behind thatsoftness, you know.
So it's just like we all havethese layers and I think once I
really sat in a circle with someapes and I was like, and I they
were some of my favorite peoplein the room and I'm like, oh,
okay, but I knew them.
Do you know what I mean?
Whereas, like maybe eights outin the world that I didn't know,
(28:42):
I was like intimidated by and Iwas like, oh, so that person
also.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Yeah, and I think too there's healthy layers and you
can do that.
Within a day you can becomehealthier and healthy in your
own number, but to understandwhere you go with that it makes
a lot of sense.
Yeah, what you just said mademe think that's.
One of my dreams is to maybehave some sort of like groups
(29:07):
that would meet.
Like you can meet with yournumber we call them panels and
then you can meet with a groupof other numbers and just learn
from each other.
Like you know, have a scenarioI did this when I worked with
work teams have a scenario andsee how everybody shows up with
that same scenario and it helpsyou understand like oh, wow,
like they don't even see itanywhere near the way I see that
, and just it just helps, withcompassion, to understand that
(29:29):
everybody's got a story and theyenter things from a different
lens.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
So yeah, and I feel like part of the reason I just
wanted you to be here today andjust kind of get people's mind
thinking about like what is thisand how can I use it.
And it just feels like at thisphase of our lives, like now our
children like say to me evenfor you, like I do feel like
(29:56):
people who have kids that arelike age span, like yours you've
got three boys and you know howmany years between the oldest
and the youngest.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Years.
So yeah, I think yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, so it's like you kind of were already tipped
into the empty nest season whileyou know Henry's still in high
school and a lot of people arelike that, you know, like
Jennifer and Mike are like that,like they've got you know
Henry's still in high school.
And a lot of people are likethat, you know, like Mike, are
like that, like they've got, youknow, adult children.
They've still got one of theirone, you know, because it's both
of their kids all together, butthen they still have one in
high school.
So they're really mostly emptynesters.
(30:28):
And then you know one preciousone still finishing school, and
so I feel like it.
It's kind of like that's such agood time to if, if somebody's
still kind of straddling, likeI'm almost an empty nester, it's
such a good time to start doingsome of that introspection and
(30:49):
like see, who am I right now,what do I want?
Cause it might be reallydifferent than you thought it'd
be.
That happened to me.
I thought I was gonna want acertain thing right now, and
then I got here and I was likewait, I feel different.
What's this about, you know?
And it's just like and then Ilove the idea of knowing your,
if you're married, knowing yourspouse's number, because this is
(31:13):
like whoa, all of a sudden.
Oh hey, you again, right.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Empty nesting is a lot like that, because you're
like, oh yeah, you live here too.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
So what are some of the ways?
Say, if somebody's you know,they know their number, they
know their spouse's number.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
What are some?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
of the ways that you can, as a couple, um, or even
just like, say, if somebody'snot a couple and it's their
friend and you know they want tounderstand, what are some of
the ways they can kind ofcollaborate, understand each
other, or like, what are some ofthe tools you've felt like your
clients have used?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
well, I, let's see, look, look down here, all my
books.
I have an addiction to books.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
You may.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I love books too.
Oh, it's, there's a, here yougo.
This is these two books I wouldsay.
Becoming Us is a great one byBeth McCord.
It's for more of a Christianlens, but it actually does all
the numbers and all thedifferent combinations and I
would recommend you can justthey have questions, you can
just work through it as a couple.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
I do remember that book coming out, but I've never
read it, yeah, and then SusanStabile, who wrote the book with
, she's got a great book thePath Between Us.
So I mean, of course I'm a bookperson but I would recommend I
mean just get curious and just,you know, unpack different
things and things, like you said, their core motivations, your
core fears and, yeah, and howthat shows up.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
And again it's not.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
it doesn't have to be a strict, strict road, it can
just be a path for you guys tobe curious about each other
again.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, even if you just yeah, I love that, even if
you just like looked in the book, that kind of, or even if you
I'm sure you can also searchonline.
If you look at like, like whatif a nine is married to a two,
or like Johnny thinks he'sprobably a two?
He was like very two, nine atthe very top.
(33:20):
Every so often I would ask himquestions to kind of help narrow
down his, you know, coremotivation or fear.
And it seems like he's really atwo, but gosh, he presents a
nine.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, he really, but he.
But then when you ask thosedeeper questions, yes he, which
(33:42):
is how I am.
People always think I'm a two.
But really, on those deeperquestions, I'm like wanting
safety, stability.
I find it through relationship.
I find it through being able totrust and build a loving
relationship with you.
But I'm looking really for thatlike safety and trust.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yes, I'm not necessarily not the like love,
not looking for that love andaffirmation from doing and
helping right right, yeah it'sdifferent from yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
So that's how I figured out.
I'm like I'm doing the samethings you're doing over there
too, but I'm doing it for alittle bit.
It's a little different slant.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
And a lot of work that I've done with clients.
Now that I think back is withyou know, they'll have two
numbers and they just need somehelp, and so we'll walk through
some different.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Oh gosh, Debbie, maybe we do just need to at some
point.
Yeah, If you're out there andyou're thinking you want to
figure this out maybe.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
But we could do some sort ofwell.
I've done like intro group workwith people, but we could kind
of dig a little deeper withfolks that would be so fun.
I'm just all about community,so I think that would be a fun
way to stick that peopletogether and just be curious
about themselves.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, that's amazing and yeah.
So let me just make sure that Ithink I've oh, I did just want
to say so.
If there are the people outthere that are already in, you
know, kind of enthusiasts, theyexplored a lot of the Enneagram
and feel like they kind of maybehave used it some but I do feel
(35:22):
like you can kind of slide intothat.
You almost stereotype yourselfand you're like, oh well, this
is what I am you don't want touse it as an excuse or a reason
not to right, right, yeahyeah.
So if you want to kind of takeit and use it and kind of
further, so say, if you know,like I feel like what in my
(35:42):
circles a lot of people knowtheir number, they know their
wings, they know where they goand you know stress, and then
you know out of inspiration, butmaybe past that, but maybe past
(36:04):
that, like um, like I know isit called subtypes, where you
get kind of into those layers,like so, if they wanted to learn
more of like those kind ofthings or some of those books
you mentioned the place to go,or I would say beatrice chestnut
does a lot of work on subtypeslike self-preservation, sexual
and social.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
So you can be a nine and you can have.
You can kind of have differentsubtypes, um, but complete
enneagram I would.
She does a lot of deeper diveswithin the enneagram and she
does a lot of work with panelsso she'll have panels, like I
was mentioning earlier, ofdifferent numbers and she's
recorded them.
It's on like YouTube, I thinkduring COVID I like binged all
(36:42):
of them or something like that,but that's a fascinating way to
watch other people and how theynavigate the world.
And she'll go a little bitdeeper with things as well.
So I would just say keep gettingcurious, and there's a lot of
stuff out there.
Maybe find somebody, a coach ortherapist, that uses the
enneagram.
I would recommend um just tohelp you if you, and then I also
(37:03):
just help you with yourrelationships with others in
your life, to be a better mother, better sister, better wife um
better so I don't mean to usethe word better, but you just
more connected and more in tunewith yourself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
And then I feel like I hope it makes people feel more
connected in their faith andseen as as truly like you're
here on purpose, like the wayyou're designed, as a gift.
And it's so easy for us to getso frustrated with ourselves and
our shortcomings, andespecially again with the
(37:42):
information overload about allthe ways we can fix ourselves
and make ourselves better.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
I love that because I think it's truly a reflection
of the gifts that God has givenus, and I think he's made us all
individually, and I thinkthat's how this shows up.
And I'm so glad you mentionedthat, because I do think, and I
think sometimes we spend so muchtime trying to fix the things
that are wrong instead ofleaning into the gifts that God
has given us.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yes, yeah, and be who we are.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
You know I don't need to be competitive.
I'm never going to becompetitive.
It's not, and that's okay.
God didn't make me that way.
I mean, yeah, I truly, trulybelieve in that, and so that's
so empowering.
I think it's so empowering.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
It's so funny that you say that because before
Debbie and I started recording,we caught up a little bit and I
was telling her that Sarah Kateand I, when we talked about the
Enneagram, we kind of think thatmaybe she's a nine.
And it's so funny because Annaloves to play games and she is,
anna is such a healthy,competitive soul, she loves,
(38:42):
just, you know, anything that'sgot that little spark and Sarah
Kate has just always been like,oh, she does a game that just,
oh, that stresses her out.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
That's a lot.
That's a lot.
Yeah, a lot Like bunk goes good, you just can play.
You just roll dice but don't, Idon't want to win or lose.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And she don't want to have to sit there and think
about how she's going to beatyou, because that just feels
like a real waste of energy.
She's like don't y'all justwant to snuggle up and watch a
movie?
Don't you just want to go for awalk?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I'm like, well, I do want to do that too, but I also
want to play this game.
Well, that's a great example,though, of just understanding
your kids better and how theywork and how they kind of show
up in your family.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, yeah Well, debbie, thank you so much for
joining us today.
I'm hoping that people willfollow up, give us their
questions and before we go, ifyou don't mind just telling
people, I'm also going to put itin the show notes.
But tell people how they canfind you.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Oh sure, so I work at a Coney Counseling Center.
We actually are right behindAthens Church in that office
complex.
There's seven of us in thepractice.
So that's right behind AthensChurch in that office complex,
seven of us in the practice.
So that's the best way to reachout to me.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, we have a website and you can find us
there and I'll put both ofDebbie's websites in the show
notes and we just.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
I'm so glad we reconnected Now.
We got to like have lunch anddo all the things.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Yeah, empty nesting or free birding as one of my
friends has corrected me to saythat it's not empty nesting but
it's free bird which kind of?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
like that.
I love that, yeah, becauseemptiness makes people sad
because they're like empty, yeah, but it's not really empty no,
it's busy and it's fun and it'sexciting, so like you said it's
just a new stage.
Yeah, I love that we're freebirding.
That's fun.
Well, y'all thanks for joiningus today.
We will see you again next weekand until then, find out your
(40:51):
number, explore the Enneagramand then tell us what you think.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Thank you for joining us on the Empty Nest Quest.
We hope today's episode broughtyou inspiration, insight and a
sense of community.
Remember, this is your time tothrive.
If you enjoyed the show, besure to subscribe, leave a
review and share it with friends.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Stay connected with us on YouTube and Instagram at
Empty Nest Quest Podcast formore resources and updates.
Until next time, keep embracingthe journey and thriving on
your empty nest quest.
Welcome to the Empty Nest Quest, the podcast where we
redefine midlife and embracethe journey ahead.
Join your hosts, jennifer andMelinda, as we share inspiring
stories, helpful hints,entrepreneurial advice and tips
that will have you thriving notjust surviving, during this
transformative time of your life.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Whether you're approaching the empty nest phase
or already navigating it, we'rehere to support you every step
of the way.
Let's embark on this questtogether.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Okay, all right, hello, hello, all right y'all.
Today, on the empty nest questwe have Debbie Huckabee and I am
so excited, debbie, that youare here.
Debbie is I'm just going tolike make you blush for a second
but Debbie is.
We met years ago when the kidswere in elementary school and I
(00:52):
have just always thought theworld of Debbie.
And now to me, debbie is theperfect guest for our podcast
because I mean, I can't wait foryou to share your story.
But you have just taken likethings you love, things you were
already good at, and just kindof kept balling it up and
balling it up and recreating itand tying a bow on it and like
(01:15):
giving yourself this beautifulcareer, now that you, like us,
are an empty nester.
And I do just want to say we'remissing Jennifer today.
She has the flu, her.
And I do just want to say we'remissing Jennifer today.
She has the flu, which stinks,but I'm glad she's taking care
of herself.
That's why we kind of partneredon this little venture.
(01:35):
So Debbie is with us todaybecause she is an Enneagram
coach.
I love the Enneagram andJennifer's very new.
She's not really into theEnneagram.
And Jennifer's very new, she'snot really into the Enneagram.
It's just never kind of fallenin her you know path and so I
have some new you know some newquestions from her and um and
(01:56):
then also a counselor.
So I just think that you knowyou getting to talk about all of
that.
So so tell us a little bitabout you and how you wound up
in this really awesome field ofwork.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Well, thank you for that intro.
Yes, I am blushing as a nineI'm like, but well, my story
kind of I'll just start kind ofempty nesting stage is it was
not all the way empty nesting,but beginning to about right
before the pandemic really.
I had heard about the Road Backto you, which is Ian Morgan
(02:32):
Cron's book.
That's probably the most Iwould say one of the most
popular and I would recommendanybody that's interested to
start there.
It's a great kind of entrywayinto the Enneagram and so I read
that I'd heard about it and Ikind of had put it off and I
read it and I just it reallyresonated with me and reading
the entire book helps because itreally helps you understand all
(02:53):
the numbers.
We all can take those freetests online, but I would
recommend you know reading thebook and kind of identifying why
you do what you do.
I think for me what it was, andso as a nine I had spent so much
of my life doing things thatothers wanted me to do.
I didn't want to rock the boatand that was just sort of the
way I navigated the world and itwas wonderful.
I have no regrets of what I'vedone, but after that I thought,
(03:15):
wow, really, this is justprofoundly changing my life, and
so I really started digginginto what I wanted to do.
I've always wanted to helppeople from the very beginning,
and I really just and more thanjust help people, I really just
wanted to walk alongside peopleand do life with them, and so I
began.
I was certified as an Enneagramcoach and I did that.
I worked with individuals and Ialso worked with work teams,
(03:37):
which was really fun.
I really enjoyed that Just kindof help build teams and help
them understand each other inthe workplace, understand their
manager.
And then that all happened.
Covid hit, of course, and thenI lost my job in advertising,
and so it was kind ofinteresting that I had just
become certified, lost my job,and so I did that for a little
(03:59):
bit and then I decided, hey, I'mgoing to go back to school
because I want to go back toschool forever, and I've just
put it off because you know, youknow how it is Life gets rough.
So I was like I can do this.
So I went to Liberty Online,which was great, and I started
and I thought, oh, I'm going tobe like the old lady in these
classes.
Come to find out they werepretty much all like me.
(04:21):
I mean a lot of folks in thisstage of life.
Especially with COVID, peoplewere trying to make some changes
.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So when you started school just cause I feel like
that's so inspiring to theladies that you know are
listening how, where were your?
How old were your boys?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Like the youngest was still home.
The other two were off incollege so I have more time.
He was driving.
You know, you guys know that um, so yeah, I had some time to,
just, you know, pour into school.
So, yeah, I mean I would, and Iput it off for so many years
and I wish I hadn't.
So, um, an online school is sodoable.
You can take it with you whenyou go on vacation with your
family.
Um, it's so different yeah, yeah, yeah, it was it was really
(05:04):
doable, took me about two and ahalf years.
So I have a degree in clinicalmental health counseling, so
that's what.
So I was still coaching duringthat time and then, once I
graduated, I know that I wasworking in community health for
a while doing my internship andsuch.
So now I've transitioned intofull time therapist but I use
the Enneagram all the time withmy clients.
(05:24):
It's actually my intake paperwork.
So if my client knows theirtype, that's a huge.
It's a huge help for me becausethat I know kind of how they
view the world and how how theykind of show up and navigate the
world.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So oh, that's so cool , yeah.
And if they don't, if so, ifsomebody, so, if they, okay, let
me back up.
So if they know their type, youknow obviously.
Well, let me ask you this yeah.
You had people that thoughtthey knew their type, but then
they come and really startunpacking things with you and
(05:57):
they realize they're a differenttype.
Have you had that happen?
We haven't, and.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I have had that happen with coaching before.
Like I've worked with peoplelong enough where, like they'll
maybe try a number on for alittle bit and then I've
actually had one that yeah, sothat does happen.
I haven't got to that placewith my therapy clients, but
it's a lot of the collegestudents that I work with.
(06:22):
It's super great for them too,because they're kind of in that
new stage of life where they'retrying to figure out things and
who they are.
So I use it sort of as a tool,launching pad for them
Discovering who they are.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Well, yeah, cause I feel like it's funny, cause I
feel like, even though we feelso different in our bodies maybe
we think our college people arereally like there's so many
similarities to the phase oflife we're in now.
Right, because it's a different.
It's a whole new chapter.
The world opens up in a reallydifferent way, which we're
probably going to look back,like we always do.
(06:56):
We always look back and we'relike god, if only I just would
have been grateful for thatseason.
You know, wish I could go backand do it.
This season is going to be thatseason.
You know, wish I could go backand do it.
This season is going to be thatseason we look back on in no
time at all that you know wecould seize the opportunity, go
back to school, or, you know,maybe just find a little more.
(07:19):
Maybe it's not go back toschool, but it's just find
something for ourselves, right?
I love that you mentioned as anine and I do just want to say,
if you're listening and you'renot familiar with the Enneagram,
there are types and every.
You know there are nine numbersand I'm going to let Debbie
(07:42):
tell you a little more aboutthat, but that's why she said
she's a nine.
If you're not an Enneagramperson and nines are totally go
with the flow, the sweetest, thesweetest of the whole.
That's not fair to say.
But I love a nine I'm not one,so I can say that.
But it's funny that you saythat about how, like, you just
kind of go with the flow and youjust did like what other people
(08:03):
wanted you to and kind of keptthe peace right and yeah.
But then it gave you but.
But when what I find to be soawesome about Enneagram is you
learn that you learn more aboutyour type, and then you were
like wait, I can really.
It kind of gave you thatfeeling of I, I don't
(08:24):
empowerment Is that the rightword?
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Absolutely the perfect word, I mean empowerment
, it kind of it put language tohow I saw things and like, for
me, the people who know me knowme, I'm not competitive at all.
I have three boys who are supercompetitive and I really
thought of something I wastragically flawed, Like I had to
change it, Like something wasreally wrong with me, and then I
realized, oh wow, like that'swho I am and I don't need to be
(08:49):
anyone else except I just hopeboth teams have fun.
I truly do, and my kids thinkI'm insane, but I was able.
You're right, it empowers youto go.
Hey, like this is how I'mcreated.
This is how God wants me tonavigate in the world created.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
This is how God wants me to navigate in the world and
yeah, yeah, so well, let me letme backtrack a little bit.
So I know that.
Say like um, so I'm going toask questions, a couple of
questions that Jennifer's sinceshe isn't here, she would ask
and um, then some more questions.
But so at first, like Jennifer,um, jennifer is speaking for
(09:25):
all of y'all who are not really.
Maybe you've just heardEnneagram, you see, like memes,
(09:49):
you hear Enneagram, people talkabout their number and we
probably get professionally inour relationships, just where
you see that with your clientsit's had the biggest impact.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, sure, sure, I think all of us know
Myers-Briggs, we know StrengthFinders, all those and I think
the Enneagram is very similar.
It's a tool to help understandyour personality.
But I think the great thingabout the Enneagram is it goes
beyond that.
It kind of gets down to yourcore motivations, your core
fears, your core desires and soreally why you do what you do.
(10:15):
So I think, when you can help,when you understand your heart
and why you're making thechoices that you make right or
wrong, good or bad I thinkthat's a great tool to help you
understand your.
I think it just it's awareness.
So I think it goes a little bitfurther.
And also the Enneagram is superflexible.
So, okay, so I'm a nine, but I'malso connected to six and three
numbers.
So in times of growth, I'll goto a three, which is my sort of
(10:38):
entrepreneur side, my goalsetting side, and then also six
is my.
I'm a very loyal person and sothings like that, I think, make
it a much more exciting tool touse, because there's so many
different layers.
I could go on and on and on, Iwon't, but it's very dynamic and
you can just know a little bitor you can actually dig deeper
and really learn a lot, and Ithink you said this, melinda.
(11:01):
I think the best thing is thatit helps.
You see that other people havedifferent lenses, how they view
the world.
Like oftentimes we'll say why isthat person so upset about X, y
, z?
It doesn't even bother me and Ithink it's just because we have
different lenses and again,they're not right or wrong, bad
or good.
It's just so.
It helps and has helped me andhas helped a lot of my clients.
(11:21):
Just have a better, greaterempathy towards others.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, I really I think I think that's probably as
much as I at first, like yousaid, learned about myself and
that was really helpful, likeyou said, just to see some of
the things that I paint inmyself as a flaw, to look and go
.
Oh wait, when you kind of backup and see it as kind of your
whole type, I'm a six and it wasfunny because, like when I was
(11:50):
going into the Enneagram andlearning it the first time I
took the test, debbie I was.
I wish I had a copy because Ithink Enneagram people would
think it was funny.
Every single number except forlike eight and one other number
were all together, like the.
(12:13):
I was like say it was somethinglike this.
It was something like I was 17points to six, 15 points, all
the rest of the numbers, andthen like 14 points and then,
like you know, two, two pointsand eight, two points.
I was like what the heck?
How am I supposed to know whatnumber I am?
(12:35):
I think I think I'm just like arainbow.
I don't think I'm a number.
I was like what's wrong?
I think I just took it at apoint where I had done so much
self-development and therapy andlike cause I love this whole
world, you know that you and Icould dive into, and so I think
so.
Then somebody said what yousaid.
They were like an Enneagramperson told me do dive into each
number, read about the numbers,and the one that probably gets
(12:58):
under your skin a little bit isprobably your number, cause
you're going to be like Whoa,you know, when it talks about
core fear.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
That's exactly right.
And also where you move to.
That for me was huge, because Igo to unhealthy six, which is
worst case scenario thinking andthe world's ending, and that's
where I go, believe it or not,as a nine.
So that really will help tokind of understand.
And again, there's subtypes,there's tri-types, it goes on
and on.
But it also helps youunderstand that every nine
(13:27):
doesn't look the same, likepeople oftentimes will say to me
well, I don't want to be in abox, and I say no, it's not a
box, it's just it's showing youwhere you are and then how you
can get out of the box if youwant.
So cause I think also, we'reall the numbers, all of us are
all the numbers are moredominant and help us navigate
the world better.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, so that helps too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
As a nine two, I had like four that I was tied with
because I didn't know who I was.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, yeah, well, everybody should.
Well, no, you gotta be a two,you gotta be a two.
And I was like, well, you wouldthink so, but I'll back up in
case somebody's like what theheck are y'all talking about?
So, so on the the Enneagram,it's like just imagine the clock
, you know, except you have justnine numbers, so it's just a
wheel, and every number kind ofhas, you know, its little tag
(14:17):
that people say it is, and six,you know, says that it's the
loyalist or the loyal one orwhatever, but also kind of like
known as being the person thatlike knows where all the
emergency exits are.
They always kind of have thestrategy, the plan, because
they're we always want a six ona girl's weekend.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I mean right, because she's going to be ready,
because the nines, she's notgoing to even have a plan at all
.
Exactly, A nines might not bepacked.
No, no, that's too muchplanning.
Oh yes, so we're just going tobe.
We're going to even have a planat all.
So exactly, and nines might notbe packed.
No, no, that's too muchplanning.
Oh yes, so we're just going tobe.
We're going to be along for theride.
But the six you want your sixhere, because they're going to
have the band-aids and the adviland all the things yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
so so I think it's funny because I think, because
that is, I mean, I am so likethat, like very big sistery and
I am a big sister but um, but Ithink that so every you know
every part on the wheel, everynumber has like it's kind of
(15:20):
what motivates you and andthere's like kind of those
positive motivators Like we canall feel in ourselves, like when
we feel inspired.
And then there's like a fear,there's like something that
maybe a wound or something thatsometimes we act out of.
And that also helps you figureout your type.
If you don't know your type andto me, if you want the quick
(15:41):
and dirty and you don't want todo a test, if you read those
parts of each type, you'reprobably going to be like, oh
gosh, that person read myjournal.
You know who wrote that.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
That's what it feels like You're right it does, and
that's how I knew I was a six.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
That's how I knew I was a six.
I was like oh, unfortunately, Ithink this is me over here.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Well, so my, so my sloth is like my you know kind
of where I go and I'm like I amnot lazy at all, but it's not
lazy in the sense of not doing.
It's lazy is putting things offLike I don't cause, I don't
want to feel uncomfortable.
So I don't like doing my taxes,not that anybody does, but I
mean like those kind of hardthings really.
I put them off as long aspossible, and so when I was able
(16:23):
to recognize that and say hey,like I got to make a schedule,
I've got to set some deadlinesfor myself, because this is just
how I'm going to just naturallybe.
I've got to set up some thingsin my life to help that, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
So again, it's just awareness, it's not and I think
people get kind of freaked outabout it Like, oh, it's, it's,
it's just another tool, it's notlike Absolutely, absolutely and
honestly, when you get into thewhatever tools someone's
interested in, to me the toolsall complement each other and
help you understand absolutelythe other one's even better.
(16:57):
Um, so let's say one of thethings that jennifer did say so
she's had, and I feel like along time ago I had stuff like
this pop up on my feed but Ihaven't in a time.
But she said that she has hadsome people that have put she's
seen on Facebook.
Maybe that kind of had somebacklash about the Enneagram,
like they were sort of afraid ofit afraid of its origins.
(17:20):
So I would be curious just tohear if you've heard any of that
or, if you like, what yourexperience if you've heard any
of that or like what kind ofsome of the myths and
misunderstandings of theEnneagram might be.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
No, I've heard that often.
I did a group a couple of timesand I had one person that had
you know, and I think it's.
It has a history.
I mean, it's been around for along, long, long time and so it
has, you know, some ties tomaybe some things that aren't
Christian based.
But I don't.
I use Enneagram from aChristian lens, so I think it's
really how you use it and so,yeah, I think there is stuff out
(17:59):
there, but it just depends onhow you're going to use it in
your life so yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Well, I think, I think that I don't know how to
please like say, melinda, youdidn't say that.
Well, it won't hurt my feelings, because I want to say this
like compassionately I feel likewe are in such an information
overload time, number one.
There's just so muchinformation out there and so,
(18:28):
because there's so much, by thetime information reaches us it's
almost like this high-pitchedshrill scream to get our
attention, you know.
So it's probablyover-enthusiastically being
thrown in our face or fearfullyto make us actually look over
there because we're sodistracted, right.
So I feel like right now, Imean, we can see it politically,
(18:49):
we can see it religiously, withgood gracious, we can see it
with just high school sportsteams there's just so much
virtual now.
So I feel like what happens andgod, you and I could just have
like a series about all thesethings.
I just feel like we all kind ofhave such like heightened,
we're so on, perched for to jumpinto fight or flight or to, you
(19:13):
know, defend or attack, becausewe're so there's like this high
, intense, like overwroughtnervous system that we're
walking around with people withtheir shoulders up.
You know, like literallysometimes I'm like you know,
even to myself, like oh,absolutely.
Cool, and so I think whathappens is we just forget to be
(19:36):
critical thinkers.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, because people can use.
They can use a pulpit as aweapon, they can use prayer as a
weapon, I mean, depending onwhat's coming out of our mouths
when we pray, you know.
And so I think for me I mean,like I teach yoga, I'm a yoga
therapist, I have a friend whois a very gifted astrologer and
(20:04):
I know that's like super scaryto people and that have never
heard of it, but it's just to melike a amplified Enneagram is
what it seems to me like.
It's just got so many detailsand I'm like, as she's talking,
I just I don't always get chillsand I think of course God would
create a universe that was sointricately woven.
(20:25):
I don't know.
I just feel like the more I'mexposed to, the more deeply I
feel God in it, the more I knowthe faith of my childhood grows
and grows and grows and growsand expands and like explodes
and makes my heart and mindbigger.
Now, I'm not saying thateverything that makes me love
(20:45):
everything, some things I'm like, yeah, that's a bit much for me
, that's out of my comfort zoneand that's okay For yourself.
Yes, I just, I do just want toencourage people to just use
your discernment, you know, yourown prayerful discernment, to
decide, instead of being, likeyou know, too thrown off.
(21:05):
And I think I mean, and I thinkJennifer that was kind of her
thing and she was like I feel,you know, too thrown off and I
think I mean, and I thinkJennifer, um, that was kind of
her thing, and she was like, Ifeel, you know, I just want to
know cause she's just not everbeen interested enough to kind
of dig in and I wanted us to dothis episode cause I love it.
So, um, so, if you're new andyou are kind of curious, so
you've mentioned Ian Cron's book, yes, is there.
(21:26):
Is there anything else youwould recommend?
To like a newbie, that I would.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
If you want to do a test which I mean I'm not
against tests at all.
I think they're very helpfuland my clients even now I give
them, but I give them the readytest.
It's through the EnneagramInstitute.
That's what I would recommend.
I think you do have to pay forit it's maybe $12, but it's very
comprehensive and it gives youall.
It's a 45 minute test, so it'snot answer a few questions swipe
(21:55):
, swipe, swipe.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
you know that's the one I did.
Yeah, it's long, but it iscomprehensive.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
It's very comprehensive and I would
recommend starting there andthen also, you know, read some
books like here, don Russo, russHudson, like that's a pretty
in-depth book.
But those are some other.
Here's one the Sacred Enneagramis a great.
Oh, I love that book.
(22:20):
Who wrote that?
I can't remember, yeah,christopher Hurt, but he's got,
I think, another one.
I would recommend that.
And then, yeah, I mean, Itotally agree with you, Melinda,
I think you're right.
I think fear makes people theydon't understand that they don't
know anything about it, sothey're automatically going to
be like oh, I think, justexplore for yourself.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, I can't wait for.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Jennifer to see what she is.
I feel like I have an idea.
But you know, I will say is doyou feel like this is true?
I always heard, um, I used tolisten to.
So a friend of mine, amy, and Ilike got super, you can get it
she's a one, and so if she getson something, girlfriend's gonna
become the you know expert ohyeah I go with her because I I
(23:04):
just like I don't know I'm, youknow I get into something too,
but it kind of from a differentlens.
but yes, we kind of go deep whenwe go.
So she and I were like reallylistening to all the Enneagram
stuff for a long time.
I swear I bet she's listened toevery Ian Cron podcast episode
ever made and they're so good.
Oh, they're so good.
And it's so fun to listen topeople and how it helps them
(23:25):
grow and these big like ahamoments they have, and and just
to find I think sometimes it'sreally hard to find
self-compassion when you're justtrying to tell yourself to be
self-compassionate but you don't.
That that, to me, keeps you tooin your head about it, you know
.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, but I will just say you know, I've always heard
, don't?
You don't want to label otherpeople or say what you think
other people are like.
Well, that's.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
That was one of like, when you asked about myths or
things, that that's what I dowould warn people because it's
super easy to say, oh my husband, I'm sure he's a.
So I would encourage you'regoing to think it, of course,
but I would maybe not say it outloud and then help them, just
encourage them maybe to explorefor themselves, because I do
find when married couples, whenthey know their or even
(24:14):
relationships in general, whenthey know each other's numbers,
it is eye-opening, like for meand my husband it was game
changer, like it totally madesense.
He's a seven.
This example I always use COVIDhits.
I'm freaking out oh my gosh,what's going to happen?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
He literally calls me on the phone as a seven,
because sevens just loveadventure.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
They get bored super easy.
He's like we should go toEurope because this is the time
to go.
You know you're insane, butsince I know that's how he
operates, now it makes completesense.
And so I just kind of shake myhead and say, yeah, were you
like, are you crazy?
I mean that's insane.
Who would do that?
But a seven probably wouldthink that.
(24:54):
So yeah, so again, yeah, it iseasy to try to type your whole
family, but you know, I thinkit's something a whole family
could do together actually andjust really get curious.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
One of my friends at her old company.
They had everybody's likechildhood, childhood picture and
their number at their officedoor.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
She said it was so great.
Now she said it was so greatand then they would have to kind
of circle back at staffmeetings and be like just want
to remind you that just likebecause someone's a two doesn't
mean you always should assumethat they're in helper mode and
that you know like it's kind oflike also just that reminder.
It's just a tool.
(25:39):
You said you know earlier.
We all have a little bit ofevery type.
I can't remember this guy'sname to give him credit, but I
was listening to a podcast withan Enneagram coach and he did
such a beautiful job of talkingabout how you know to me, kind
of, if you think about the En indifferent like maybe hobbies or
(26:01):
relationships, you might findyourself feeling kind of a
different little flavor of whoyou are.
And he was like so that's whatkind of helps you become like a
fuller expression of you know.
(26:23):
The gifts that God's placed inyou is cool to think about it
that way.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
To me.
That's what I mean about fluidand flexible.
You can know your wings, solike a nine I have an eight and
a one wing and so I use I thinkof it kind of like to your point
.
They're almost like they seasonyour number, like you can take
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
I think, the more you just know about the numbers.
It's just to your point.
Yeah, it helps you understandpeople in general.
I agree with you right now weneed a little bit of that.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, I do think it gives you a lot more compassion
for people, like if you have atype of person like, like, say,
I'm intimidated by peoplesometimes.
Like, say, a person that wouldbe like an eight I wouldn't be
intimidated by, because eightsare kind of assertive, strong
(27:18):
leaders.
You say more, I'm going to sayit all wrong, but no, that's
exactly right Very, you know,very dominant.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
They kind of take charge.
They come in a room and as ahealthy eight they're super
powerful and successful and doreally well in the world.
But as an unhealthy eight theycan be very scary and
detrimental to an organization.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Things like that and if you have like a peacekeeping
type it can freak me out.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
It's funny because I actually am an eight dominant
wing.
Like I can pull into that eightstrength at times and it helps
me go.
Okay, I'm going to.
I need some some of that rightnow.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
But it helped me understand that, ok, there, that
is not the only layer to thatperson, not at all.
Get to know that person andthat that.
So maybe like that person leadswith that assertiveness, and
then behind that assertiveness,assertiveness is their softness.
Just like somebody who leadslike you, with like this
(28:20):
softness doesn't mean thatyou're a pushover.
You have strength behind thatsoftness, you know.
So it's just like we all havethese layers and I think once I
really sat in a circle with someapes and I was like, and I they
were some of my favorite peoplein the room and I'm like, oh,
okay, but I knew them.
Do you know what I mean?
Whereas, like maybe eights outin the world that I didn't know,
(28:42):
I was like intimidated by and Iwas like, oh, so that person
also.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Yeah, and I think too there's healthy layers and you
can do that.
Within a day you can becomehealthier and healthy in your
own number, but to understandwhere you go with that it makes
a lot of sense.
Yeah, what you just said mademe think that's.
One of my dreams is to maybehave some sort of like groups
(29:07):
that would meet.
Like you can meet with yournumber we call them panels and
then you can meet with a groupof other numbers and just learn
from each other.
Like you know, have a scenarioI did this when I worked with
work teams have a scenario andsee how everybody shows up with
that same scenario and it helpsyou understand like oh, wow,
like they don't even see itanywhere near the way I see that
, and just it just helps, withcompassion, to understand that
(29:29):
everybody's got a story and theyenter things from a different
lens.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
So yeah, and I feel like part of the reason I just
wanted you to be here today andjust kind of get people's mind
thinking about like what is thisand how can I use it.
And it just feels like at thisphase of our lives, like now our
children like say to me evenfor you, like I do feel like
(29:56):
people who have kids that arelike age span, like yours you've
got three boys and you know howmany years between the oldest
and the youngest.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Years.
So yeah, I think yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, so it's like you kind of were already tipped
into the empty nest season whileyou know Henry's still in high
school and a lot of people arelike that, you know, like
Jennifer and Mike are like that,like they've got you know
Henry's still in high school.
And a lot of people are likethat, you know, like Mike, are
like that, like they've got, youknow, adult children.
They've still got one of theirone, you know, because it's both
of their kids all together, butthen they still have one in
high school.
So they're really mostly emptynesters.
(30:28):
And then you know one preciousone still finishing school, and
so I feel like it.
It's kind of like that's such agood time to if, if somebody's
still kind of straddling, likeI'm almost an empty nester, it's
such a good time to start doingsome of that introspection and
(30:49):
like see, who am I right now,what do I want?
Cause it might be reallydifferent than you thought it'd
be.
That happened to me.
I thought I was gonna want acertain thing right now, and
then I got here and I was likewait, I feel different.
What's this about, you know?
And it's just like and then Ilove the idea of knowing your,
if you're married, knowing yourspouse's number, because this is
(31:13):
like whoa, all of a sudden.
Oh hey, you again, right.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Empty nesting is a lot like that, because you're
like, oh yeah, you live here too.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
So what are some of the ways?
Say, if somebody's you know,they know their number, they
know their spouse's number.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
What are some?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
of the ways that you can, as a couple, um, or even
just like, say, if somebody'snot a couple and it's their
friend and you know they want tounderstand, what are some of
the ways they can kind ofcollaborate, understand each
other, or like, what are some ofthe tools you've felt like your
clients have used?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
well, I, let's see, look, look down here, all my
books.
I have an addiction to books.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
You may.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I love books too.
Oh, it's, there's a, here yougo.
This is these two books I wouldsay.
Becoming Us is a great one byBeth McCord.
It's for more of a Christianlens, but it actually does all
the numbers and all thedifferent combinations and I
would recommend you can justthey have questions, you can
just work through it as a couple.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
I do remember that book coming out, but I've never
read it, yeah, and then SusanStabile, who wrote the book with
, she's got a great book thePath Between Us.
So I mean, of course I'm a bookperson but I would recommend I
mean just get curious and just,you know, unpack different
things and things, like you said, their core motivations, your
core fears and, yeah, and howthat shows up.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
And again it's not.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
it doesn't have to be a strict, strict road, it can
just be a path for you guys tobe curious about each other
again.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, even if you just yeah, I love that, even if
you just like looked in the book, that kind of, or even if you
I'm sure you can also searchonline.
If you look at like, like whatif a nine is married to a two,
or like Johnny thinks he'sprobably a two?
He was like very two, nine atthe very top.
(33:20):
Every so often I would ask himquestions to kind of help narrow
down his, you know, coremotivation or fear.
And it seems like he's really atwo, but gosh, he presents a
nine.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, he really, but he.
But then when you ask thosedeeper questions, yes he, which
(33:42):
is how I am.
People always think I'm a two.
But really, on those deeperquestions, I'm like wanting
safety, stability.
I find it through relationship.
I find it through being able totrust and build a loving
relationship with you.
But I'm looking really for thatlike safety and trust.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yes, I'm not necessarily not the like love,
not looking for that love andaffirmation from doing and
helping right right, yeah it'sdifferent from yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
So that's how I figured out.
I'm like I'm doing the samethings you're doing over there
too, but I'm doing it for alittle bit.
It's a little different slant.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
And a lot of work that I've done with clients.
Now that I think back is withyou know, they'll have two
numbers and they just need somehelp, and so we'll walk through
some different.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Oh gosh, Debbie, maybe we do just need to at some
point.
Yeah, If you're out there andyou're thinking you want to
figure this out maybe.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
But we could do some sort ofwell.
I've done like intro group workwith people, but we could kind
of dig a little deeper withfolks that would be so fun.
I'm just all about community,so I think that would be a fun
way to stick that peopletogether and just be curious
about themselves.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, that's amazing and yeah.
So let me just make sure that Ithink I've oh, I did just want
to say so.
If there are the people outthere that are already in, you
know, kind of enthusiasts, theyexplored a lot of the Enneagram
and feel like they kind of maybehave used it some but I do feel
(35:22):
like you can kind of slide intothat.
You almost stereotype yourselfand you're like, oh well, this
is what I am you don't want touse it as an excuse or a reason
not to right, right, yeahyeah.
So if you want to kind of takeit and use it and kind of
further, so say, if you know,like I feel like what in my
(35:42):
circles a lot of people knowtheir number, they know their
wings, they know where they goand you know stress, and then
you know out of inspiration, butmaybe past that, but maybe past
(36:04):
that, like um, like I know isit called subtypes, where you
get kind of into those layers,like so, if they wanted to learn
more of like those kind ofthings or some of those books
you mentioned the place to go,or I would say beatrice chestnut
does a lot of work on subtypeslike self-preservation, sexual
and social.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
So you can be a nine and you can have.
You can kind of have differentsubtypes, um, but complete
enneagram I would.
She does a lot of deeper diveswithin the enneagram and she
does a lot of work with panelsso she'll have panels, like I
was mentioning earlier, ofdifferent numbers and she's
recorded them.
It's on like YouTube, I thinkduring COVID I like binged all
(36:42):
of them or something like that,but that's a fascinating way to
watch other people and how theynavigate the world.
And she'll go a little bitdeeper with things as well.
So I would just say keep gettingcurious, and there's a lot of
stuff out there.
Maybe find somebody, a coach ortherapist, that uses the
enneagram.
I would recommend um just tohelp you if you, and then I also
(37:03):
just help you with yourrelationships with others in
your life, to be a better mother, better sister, better wife um
better so I don't mean to usethe word better, but you just
more connected and more in tunewith yourself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
And then I feel like I hope it makes people feel more
connected in their faith andseen as as truly like you're
here on purpose, like the wayyou're designed, as a gift.
And it's so easy for us to getso frustrated with ourselves and
our shortcomings, andespecially again with the
(37:42):
information overload about allthe ways we can fix ourselves
and make ourselves better.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
I love that because I think it's truly a reflection
of the gifts that God has givenus, and I think he's made us all
individually, and I thinkthat's how this shows up.
And I'm so glad you mentionedthat, because I do think, and I
think sometimes we spend so muchtime trying to fix the things
that are wrong instead ofleaning into the gifts that God
has given us.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yes, yeah, and be who we are.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
You know I don't need to be competitive.
I'm never going to becompetitive.
It's not, and that's okay.
God didn't make me that way.
I mean, yeah, I truly, trulybelieve in that, and so that's
so empowering.
I think it's so empowering.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
It's so funny that you say that because before
Debbie and I started recording,we caught up a little bit and I
was telling her that Sarah Kateand I, when we talked about the
Enneagram, we kind of think thatmaybe she's a nine.
And it's so funny because Annaloves to play games and she is,
anna is such a healthy,competitive soul, she loves,
(38:42):
just, you know, anything that'sgot that little spark and Sarah
Kate has just always been like,oh, she does a game that just,
oh, that stresses her out.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
That's a lot.
That's a lot.
Yeah, a lot Like bunk goes good, you just can play.
You just roll dice but don't, Idon't want to win or lose.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And she don't want to have to sit there and think
about how she's going to beatyou, because that just feels
like a real waste of energy.
She's like don't y'all justwant to snuggle up and watch a
movie?
Don't you just want to go for awalk?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I'm like, well, I do want to do that too, but I also
want to play this game.
Well, that's a great example,though, of just understanding
your kids better and how theywork and how they kind of show
up in your family.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, yeah Well, debbie, thank you so much for
joining us today.
I'm hoping that people willfollow up, give us their
questions and before we go, ifyou don't mind just telling
people, I'm also going to put itin the show notes.
But tell people how they canfind you.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Oh sure, so I work at a Coney Counseling Center.
We actually are right behindAthens Church in that office
complex.
There's seven of us in thepractice.
So that's right behind AthensChurch in that office complex,
seven of us in the practice.
So that's the best way to reachout to me.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, we have a website and you can find us
there and I'll put both ofDebbie's websites in the show
notes and we just.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
I'm so glad we reconnected Now.
We got to like have lunch anddo all the things.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Yeah, empty nesting or free birding as one of my
friends has corrected me to saythat it's not empty nesting but
it's free bird which kind of?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
like that.
I love that, yeah, becauseemptiness makes people sad
because they're like empty, yeah, but it's not really empty no,
it's busy and it's fun and it'sexciting, so like you said it's
just a new stage.
Yeah, I love that we're freebirding.
That's fun.
Well, y'all thanks for joiningus today.
We will see you again next weekand until then, find out your
(40:51):
number, explore the Enneagramand then tell us what you think.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Thank you for joining us on the Empty Nest Quest.
We hope today's episode broughtyou inspiration, insight and a
sense of community.
Remember, this is your time tothrive.
If you enjoyed the show, besure to subscribe, leave a
review and share it with friends.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Stay connected with us on YouTube and Instagram at
Empty Nest Quest Podcast formore resources and updates.
Until next time, keep embracingthe journey and thriving on
your empty nest quest.
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