April 28, 2025 • 38 mins
Ever wondered why your mother's generation was so afraid of hormone replacement therapy? In this eye-opening conversation with returning guest Brookes Vaughn, we unravel decades of misunderstanding surrounding menopause treatment, diving deep into the flawed Women's Health Initiative study that scared millions of women away from potentially life-enhancing care.
"Estrogen is the only drug proven to reduce the risk of heart disease in women," Brookes reveals, highlighting just one of many startling facts about hormone therapy that have been overshadowed by outdated research. The discussion moves beyond hot flashes to explore how estrogen affects everything from brain health to heart function, with both hosts sharing personal insights into navigating these complex physical changes.
For women contemplating hormone therapy, Brookes offers practical guidance on what to expect: "I always say, especially with autoimmune menopause, it's like we're turning a ship, not a canoe." She explains the adjustment period, how long before benefits appear, and why it's crucial to find healthcare providers who actually listen to your concerns rather than dismissing them.
The conversation also addresses special cases, including options for breast cancer survivors, and emphasizes the importance of community support during this transformative time. Whether you're approaching perimenopause, in the thick of menopause, or supporting someone who is, this episode provides the science-based clarity needed to make informed decisions about your health.
Have questions about your midlife hormonal journey? Reach out to us - we want to continue this vital conversation. Connect with us on YouTube and Instagram @EmptyNestQuestPodcast for more resources and insights.
We want to hear from you! Reach out to us on socials or at emptynestquestpod@gmail.com to share how our conversations are landing with you! xo-Melynda and Jennifer
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Empty Nest Quest, the podcast where we
redefine midlife and embracethe journey ahead.
Join your hosts, jennifer andMelinda, as we share inspiring
stories, helpful hints,entrepreneurial advice and tips
that will have you thriving notjust surviving, during this
transformative time of your life.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Whether you're approaching the empty nest phase
or already navigating it, we'rehere to support you every step
of the way.
Let's embark on this questtogether.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Hey y'all, welcome to the Empty Nest Quest.
I have Brooks Vaughn with ustoday and Jennifer is not with
us because she is teaching cutelittle babies, but thank you for
being back with us, Brooks.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Thank you for having me back.
I feel like this is way calmer.
I look better, I have makeup onmy hair's not on top of my head
.
I can pay attention because I'ma toddler jumping up and down.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
You handled that like a boss.
I don't know if y'all heard thelast episode where we had
Brooks but she had her sweetlittle baby and he was just busy
as a bee All over the place.
He was, he was.
That was in the picture youposted later was so funny.
He had like food, was it?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
yogurt, I don't even know Yogurt.
He had climbed on the table atone point.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I was like so she kept her sweet little toddler
alive.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
And it's funny, though, because he naps every
day during that like three hourwindow and that was the like.
It's probably 1% of the timethat he will not go down for a
nap, and that was that day.
I'm like what in the world?
I planned this perfectly andyou will not go to sleep, I know
it is.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I swear.
I feel like it was like thatwith my girls too.
It would be like I wouldfinally be like okay, we've been
napping like this for a longtime, I can plan for somebody to
drop by the house for 30minutes, and it would just
inevitably be the day where itwas like haha not on your life.
It's like sometimes they canfeel it, you know they can feel
your like reliance on their napand they're like what's
(02:00):
happening.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
And I'm missing.
I they're like what's happeningand I'm missing.
I can't, yeah, I can't missthat.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Well, okay y'all.
So last time Brooks gave us somuch information, we got so much
really amazing feedback.
People were so grateful to hearall of your wisdom, so it was
awesome.
And then Jennifer and I haveseen a lot of you know,
confusion.
You know confusion.
We hear our friends feelingconfused about this season and
(02:28):
you know what people say is okayto take, what's not okay.
And so Jennifer was like Ithink it'd be great if Brooks
would just kind of maybe talk tous about some of like the
misunderstandings and what yousee.
I mean you're seeing patientsevery day.
You see what.
You see how confused we are.
Well, I mean it is.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It is confusing.
There's so much out there rightnow.
That's you know contradictory.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yes, and I think I think if.
Well, some of the things thatare confusing are just the women
who go, which we addressed lasttime, and they're just told
like, hey, this is just a spaceof life, you have to live with
it.
And then you know, I wasreading Mary Haver's book and it
listed just right off the batlike almost 70 symptoms you can
(03:12):
have.
Yeah, that sound like everyother symptom.
Yes, for every other thing, yep.
So, no wonder we're so confused.
But some of what.
So I think we all can agreethat it's confusing and our
bodies are like what, what?
And it's like another pubertyfeeling time.
But part of what I feel likethe debate or really feelings
(03:36):
people get real emotional about,is this whole idea of hormone
replacement therapy and who isit right for.
Is it safe?
Our moms thought it wasn't.
What do we do?
You know how do we take it,who's okay?
And so maybe if you could justtalk a little, just as, and just
(03:56):
remember y'all this is notmedical advice for you.
This is two people talking thatare curious and want to just
share, just so that you'll goout and talk to your doctor and
your provider and find the paththat's right for you, and to
know that there might be morepaths than you've been
introduced to is really our goalis just to be walk alongside
(04:17):
you.
So yes yes.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I agree, and you know it's interesting too with
hormone replacement therapy.
It is, I tell our patients allthe time it's not for everybody,
some women don't feel better onit and you know I'm a big
proponent of in our clinic.
I'm in the passenger seat,you're in the driver's seat and
(04:40):
I'm listening to you when itcomes to how do you feel, what
do you, what have you noticed?
Because we do have somepatients who very few, but we've
tried all different routes andthere are maybe better options
than HRT.
But in general it can be a lifechanger for a lot of women if
(05:01):
it's done correctly andappropriately, and you know.
So, yeah, as far as who is itright for?
Versus when do you start it?
You know, I'll kind of take youback a little bit to the
confusion behind it.
So years ago I said the otherday the late 1900s, like the
(05:22):
1990s.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Makes me feel so old, the late 1900s like the 1990s.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Makes me feel so old.
There was a big study and I'msure you've read all about this.
I know probably all of yourfollowers have heard this if
they're, especially on socialmedia but it's called the
Women's Health Initiative and itwas the first large.
Before that WHI we had prettygood, substantial data on HRT
(05:50):
and the benefits of HRT.
Before the WHI I think it wascalled the feminine movement.
It was back in the MarilynMonroe era when women were
learning more about longevityand youthfulness and it's kind
of when estrogen and birthcontrol and HRT came on the
(06:12):
market and there were somereally good studies that showed
the benefit of estradiol orestrogen and HRT when it came to
bone protection andcardiovascular protection.
The Women's Health Initiativewas really the first large-scale
randomized control trial tostudy the safety versus the
(06:35):
risks and the efficacy of HRTand they had three arms to that
trial.
They had one group of women whotook placebo.
They had one group of women whotook placebo.
They had one group of women whohad uter, intact, uteruses, so
they had not had hysterectomies,and that group of women were
given, was given estradiol um inthe form of primarin which was
(06:57):
conjugated.
I say estradiol estrogen in theform of primarin which was
conjugated horse urine.
So they, this type of estrogen,was derived from pregnant
horses, which is notbioidentical, it's not identical
to what our bodies make and whoknows what those horses were
given as far as antibiotics andgrowth hormones.
(07:19):
They were kept pregnant andthen they were given a synthetic
form of progesterone, and thenthey were given a synthetic form
of progesterone, and then thethird group of women had
undergone hysterectomies, and sowe know that if you don't have
a uterus, it's not mandatory totake progesterone.
If you take estrogen, we stillin our clinic really like
(07:39):
progesterone for the systemicbenefits that we get from
progesterone and a lot of times,if you just take estrogen,
sometimes that mismatchedprogesterone counteracts
estrogen.
In a sense.
Estrogen lubricates things.
It draws water in.
Progesterone sort of is anatural diuretic.
(08:00):
It also helps with sleep andmood.
It's a natural anti-inflammatory, and so I still like
progesterone for a lot of ourpatients, depending on the
person.
But back to the hysterectomy.
If you don't have a uterus andyou take estrogen, no harm, no
(08:21):
foul.
If you have a uterus and youtake estrogen and you're not
ovulating or you're not takingprogesterone, that estrogen can
thicken your uterine lining andso, without progesterone, over
time that can cause uterinecancer.
So that's why women who have auterus, if they take systemic
estrogen whether that be a patchor a shot or a pill or the mist
(08:46):
you need to take progesteroneas well.
So the group of women that didnot have a uterus were just
given estrogen.
Well, that halfway through thestudy they saw a slight
increased risk in breast cancerin the middle group, the women
who were taking estrogen withprogesterone, and so and I you
know I could talk about this forhours, but I'm going to kind of
(09:08):
condense it so the study washalted and basically the
headlines were hormonereplacement therapy causes
breast cancer and there were acouple of other things.
When it came to cardiovascularhealth, we know now, based on
lots of data, that estrogen canbe very helpful for our arteries
(09:30):
and our heart if we start itprior to heart disease setting
in, or atherosclerosis settingin.
Long story short, that studyreally vilified HRT because then
everyone was scared to death ofbreast cancer.
You hear the word cancer and itdoesn't like hot flashes don't
(09:51):
matter anymore and really HRTback in those days was just for
that indication, hot flashes.
And we know now that there's somuch more to it and we know now
that there's so much more to it.
So that really sort of thatstudy has driven like it's been
(10:14):
in medical school curriculum.
It was in my curriculum back,you know, 10 plus years ago and
it's just stayed with doctorsand NPs and PAs for years and so
that's really, unless you'refollowing the data year after
year, that's the big one andthat's what people remember.
Thankfully now that thosefindings were actually redacted
(10:38):
this past year, because they Imean it was a faulty study.
There were a lot of things thatwere done wrong with it.
They've done it.
What's interesting is the groupof women who just had were
given estrogen, who did not havea uterus, had lower rates of
breast cancer even compared tothe general population.
And they've done 20 year followup studies on women who had
(11:00):
hysterectomies, who stayed onestrogen.
Those women have significantlylower rates of breast cancer
compared to the even the generalpopulation.
So it's interesting thatestrogen causes breast cancer.
What we believe is that it's thecombination of synthetic
progesterone with the wrong typeof estrogen that's inflammatory
(11:23):
, that can feed cancer cells,that can cause issues.
So plant-based bioidenticalprogesterone is very different
than synthetic progesterone andit can be very anti-inflammatory
, very protective of the breasttissue.
So we've got some newer datanow that really kind of
(11:44):
highlights that and I think overthe next decade we will have a
lot more studies you knowfunding towards these kind of
studies to prove the benefitsversus the risk and not to say
that there are no risks.
I mean there can definitely berisks with.
HRT.
Yes, I mean some people.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Tylenol relieves their headache and some people
it damages their liver rightaway.
Yes, you know.
So everything has.
I think we get so used to theconvenience of what that has
become routine or that we heareverybody does and we sort of
forget that there are people outthere questioning, testing,
(12:28):
still looking in because we getto just benefit and live our
lives and take whatever ourdoctor tells us.
And but there there is more.
There's always more informationcoming back, you know yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
And you know, I think too, one of the things that I
have seen, and even mepersonally as a provider and a
patient and a mom I think COVIDreally caused us as a population
to kind of take a step back andthink for ourselves a little
bit and question things.
You know, and I think it alsothe rise of social media in a
(13:05):
good way has been veryeye-opening to women because,
you know, before this was sortof something that you just
talked about behind the closeddoors of the doctor's office or
with your friends, but they wereall being told the same thing
from their doctors.
And now there's just so muchmore information that you know
(13:25):
you do question if somebody islike, oh that's terrible, we
would never put you on thatbecause that's going to give you
cancer, when in reality, youknow, I always kind of caution
to my patients.
Breast cancer is not theleading cause of death in women,
it's heart disease, right, andheart disease.
The only drug that has beenactually proven to reduce the
(13:46):
risk of heart disease in womenis estrogen, isn't that
fascinating and we know thatmenopause is when we see, when a
woman goes through menopause,that transition estrogen,
progesterone, typically alsotestosterone those three
hormones drop.
We see an increase in LDLcholesterol, which is our bad
cholesterol.
We see an increase in heartdisease, an increase in insulin
(14:09):
resistance and blood sugarissues.
And so many of our patients Ibelieve them when they say
nothing else has changed, LikeI've never had high cholesterol,
I've never had blood sugarissues.
I'm doing exactly what I didfive years ago, if not better.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yes, I mean that's what's crazy is you get to our
phase of life?
And I feel like most of us arereally for the most part, I mean
, that's what's crazy.
Is you get to our phase of life?
And I feel like most of us arereally for the most part.
I mean, you and I are in suchdifferent phases.
You are chasing two littlebitties.
So if you get a whole meal downand your sweet little body is
like a miracle.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
We have time to sit and eat a whole meal, Brooks.
And so we are like you knowwhat I mean?
Like all the things you'redoing that you're like, oh, if I
had time I would also do this.
Like we have time to do thatnow and we're doing it and we're
like so why do I not feelamazing?
So no, I get that because whenI had my you know, blood work
done, I was shocked in mycholesterol stuff, Cause I was
like what I've never, I've I'venever gravitated towards the
(15:05):
super bad stuff that reallytakes you to bad cholesterol
numbers.
And I'm, and then, and thenwhat drives me nuts is the well,
it's probably just hereditary.
Then, yeah, I'm like, oh, mystars, so, um, yeah.
And then I think so I went to a, an event where they play they,
um, yes, Um, gosh, my brainbrain fogy o'reilly, that's in
(15:31):
athens, did that event and itwas the m factor, that movie.
So there was a cardiologistthere.
I can't remember her name, well, she's in atlanta.
Yes, I know exactly who you'retalking about, but I can't
remember her name, but she did agreat job of talking about,
like, all the places in our bodythat have, as women, that have
estrogen receptors and so ifthey have estrogen receptors,
(15:54):
they need estrogen floatingaround in our bodies, like
helping the communication stayactive.
And the way she described thatwas just so like oh my gosh.
And she talks specificallyabout the heart because she's a
cardiologist and it was soinsightful and it made me think
of just so many women that Ithat I know in my own life that
have had a hard stuff once.
(16:14):
They got like past 40 even,yeah, and so I think that is
fascinating, like that statisticthat you just said.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
She also said about, you know, heart disease and I
was like, oh my gosh, yes, it iscrazy how and you know, yes,
the standard American diet forsure plays a factor in that.
But I mean, like you said, somany of my patients are in their
30s and 40s and they're doingbetter than they've ever done
before because they're so muchmore educated on you know, and
(16:44):
we've got availability to allthese good resources now, and
you know it's interesting toowith our brain.
So I don't know if you saw themenopause special on.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Oprah oh, I haven't watched the whole thing.
I'm glad you mentioned thatI've been wanting.
Yeah, I need to do that.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
It's really interesting.
I mean, they do a good job.
She has a neuro I think I don'tknow if it's a psychiatrist or
a neurologist this doctor fromStanford, and she talks about
women's brains, the studies thathave done on women's brains as
we go through menopause, and shesaid, you know, it's regional,
(17:22):
it's not whole brain changes,but we see regional changes in
women's brains as they loseestrogen.
So as estrogen drops, brainchanges.
And so she talks so much abouthow preventable neuro
neurological issues likedementia and obviously it's not
just estrogen, it's blood sugarand you know.
(17:44):
But from a from a neurologicalstandpoint, we even know that as
we go through menopause, ourbrain changes and that you know,
you know that just in talkingwith your friends and yourself,
things the way that you, youknow, cognition changes, but
also in a good way.
It's interesting.
Some of the women were like ina good way, I I feel like I am
(18:07):
also more confident in who I amand I don't care as much about
what other people think.
It's really a great thing.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
And I always tell people, if God wanted me to care
more, he'd let me keep all myestrogen.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
So, yes, yeah, and God wanted us to be yeah, he's
like, I'm going to let you notcare.
Like you used to, it's notgoing to matter.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yes, yeah, oh my gosh .
Yeah, it's funny that you saythat, cause we were.
I was at Johnny and I were at aconcert with some friends and
it was one of those where we hadnot been to that new Roxy venue
in Atlanta and we didn't getthe seated seats that were up in
the balcony.
We were on the floor, well, sofirst of all, we're like that's
fine, we just went to countrymusic festival like we can hang,
(18:52):
we can stand here, and it waslike a frat party brooks, it's
like all these young collegepeople and everybody's bumping
into each other and you can justimagine, okay yeah, and it was
hot and I don't know whathappened, because I'm really
don't have all that hot, youknow, heat issue anymore now
that I'm doing like hormonereplacement stuff.
But that night I looked at myfriend.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I was like I don't have enough estrogen to be here
I think I need to exit thebuilding and she was like, oh my
gosh.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So she told me she was like that's my new point.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I'm just telling everybody.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I do think it just sort of there is an interesting
thing in this phase of life thatit does I don't know Like it
really does kind of let you comeinto your own a little more,
and I'm sure it also has to dowith, if you are a person that
has raised children, that you'vealso probably like pretty much
launched your kids at this point.
(19:43):
So there's also that freedom,and so it kind of all happens
simultaneously, and probably ifyou're still working, you feel
more secure at work and feelmore like yourself.
So I think it's like acombination of things, but I
think for women specifically, itcertainly has to relate to
these things in our body.
I know Well, okay, so one morething.
Um, so I wanted to talk, Iwanted you to address a little
(20:06):
bit about if somebody because Idid see, when Jennifer was
talking about her friend's post,that somebody said, well, if I
can't remember what this did,this lady is there like maybe if
people have had cancer orsomething they can't do,
hormones, or if it's a, I feellike somebody said something
like that.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
It's very specific to specific types of breast cancer
Estrogen receptor positive orestrogen and progesterone
receptor positive breast cancer.
A lot of times they want noestrogen running through your
body at all.
Now those women can do topicalvaginal estrogen that's
something that I will shout fromthe rooftops for patients who
have had breast cancer who can'thave systemic estrogen.
(20:47):
That's something that I willshout from the rooftops for
patients who have had breastcancer who can't have systemic
estrogen.
You don't realize the effectthat that actually has on your
bladder, your vaginal health.
We see so many patients whohave recurrent UTIs and painful
intercourse and vaginal dryness,chronic yeast or chronic
bacterial infections, andthey're just all you know.
(21:10):
They're just treat.
You're treating the eachinfection as it comes, when in
reality, a lot of times it'sbecause, as we lose estrogen,
estrogen lubricates things.
It also helps with our vaginalmicrobiome our vaginal bacteria,
and it also really helps withsupport, like supporting our
(21:31):
bladder and supporting, you know, that tissue around it.
And so if you have a friendthat has had breast cancer and
was told she cannot takeestrogen, topical estrogen is
not absorbed into thebloodstream and so it's local
kind of like if you put lotionon your face, essentially, and
it can be a lifesaver for somany women.
(21:52):
Thankfully, there are a lot ofgood menopause specialists on
social media that are sayingthis.
There's a doctor her name is DrMin M-E-N-N and she's a breast
cancer survivor and she talks alot about the safety of vaginal
estrogen and breast cancersurvivors and also the
conversation that women shouldbe offered if they've had breast
(22:16):
cancer around HRT, becauseultimately, there are risks and
benefits to everything.
You know, she's a great personto follow if you have a friend
that has breast cancer or hashad breast cancer.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Or is scared of reasons not to want to do HRT.
Well, and then?
So how long do should we say ifwe started HRT?
How, how long should it takefor us to maybe feel like we
turn, we've turned a corner, orhow long should we give things,
(22:48):
or what else should maybe we trybesides just HRT?
I mean, like I know that, youknow, I was told that if I
really wanted to go cause I haveHashimoto's, so that it was
like, okay, if you really wantto go at this hard, like try to
be gluten free, these, obviouslyyou don't have to do these
things, but these are greatthings to try and I was just
(23:08):
like, okay, what is it?
You know, I was like, oh gosh,it was like try to be
gluten-free, try to bedairy-free, try to reduce your
sugar, don't drink alcohol.
And there was one more, therewere five things.
And I was like, okay, I'll trythose, I'll try all those, and
(23:29):
and it has helped, but like Ithink I wasn't ready for how
long it was going to take for itto help.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, so I think, you spoke to that a little like
yeah, yes, because I do think wewant.
We want so badly and expectlike in two days I'm gonna feel
like, oh, you know, and it is aprocess.
I always say, especially withautoimmune menopause, it's like
we're turning a ship, not acanoe.
So it's going to be a processand with HRT there's an
(23:53):
adjustment period too.
That's that a lot of peoplearen't really aware of.
They expect to start it andjust instantly feel better, or
if they feel worse, they thinkthis isn't right for me.
And there's definitely a processof your body adjusting to
adding hormones in.
We typically say give it eightweeks to really start to see.
(24:13):
And then we I like to do bloodwork, I like to monitor levels
when you're on HRT and kind oftake those levels as well as
your symptoms and decidetogether what do we need to
tweak a little bit?
Do we need to go up?
Do we need to go up?
Do we need to go down?
Because women absorb andthankfully data is starting to
(24:35):
actually support that approach.
For years we were told there'sno point in testing women's
hormone levels once you startthem on HRT.
Just go by their symptoms.
But your symptoms I mean, yes,I can basically, based on doing
this for a while, I know whatthe symptoms are of too much
(24:55):
estrogen or too muchtestosterone, but you really
don't.
I mean, sometimes I'm shockedby blood work and people absorb
things so differently.
Everyone is so unique and howtheir skin or their digestive
system absorbs things.
And so and we do have some gooddata to support levels being at
(25:15):
a certain number to give usheart like estrogen.
I really like to be above 50 to60, because there's good data
to support that it when, whenour estradiol levels are in that
range or higher, we don't wantit too high either because then
we, you know, at that pointwe're going to have breast
tenderness, we're going to haveweight gain, we're going to have
(25:35):
bloating, but when it's above50 to 60, it's protecting our
bones, it's protecting our heart.
And so there's a range in therebetween 50 and 150-ish
somewhere in there that we canwork with based on how you feel.
But we know that there's sortof an optimal window to give you
the other benefits from abodily standpoint.
(25:59):
But I typically we typicallytell our patients when you start
on it, give it at least eightweeks to adjust to it.
Once we get to that eight weekmark, then we kind of know okay,
this is how you're going tofeel on this dose of whatever
you're taking.
And then, typically betweeneight and 12 weeks, we look at
labs to see where we are and webase it on your symptoms and how
(26:20):
you're feeling A lot of times.
Initially women will feelbloated.
There's a draw estrogensdrawing in water.
Progesterone does sort of delaydigestion at first, so women
will feel bloated.
There's a draw estrogensdrawing in water.
Progesterone does sort of delaydigestion at first, so women
will feel worse before they feelbetter.
They'll feel bloated, they'llhave constipation.
Those aren't things that you're.
You really hear as much Um, butthen usually that totally
(26:44):
resolves your fluid level shift.
Estrogen kind of balances out.
Progesterone acts as a diureticeventually and women feel less
bloated and less puffy thanbefore.
And then from there it can takesome time to find the right
dose and the right route becauseeveryone is so unique.
(27:07):
So we have no way.
I wish there was like a magiceight ball or some kind of DNA
test that we could say this iswhat you need.
So we, we do tailor it based onthe person and it can take up
to a year.
Truly to figure out what worksbest for you, what dose works
best.
(27:27):
It's a lot trickier inperimenopause versus menopause,
because perimenopause you'resort of on a roller coaster ride
and things are changing.
Menopause you've kind offlatline, so we're on a flat
road.
So it's less tricky once wefind the right dose and the
right route, versus, you know,when your body's sort of on a
(27:48):
yeah, a little bit of arollercoaster ride.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, no, I think that's a really good way to
describe it, cause I am inperimenopause and it has been a
rollercoaster ride for sure, andI also have a really great
acupuncturist, and so she's beenreally supportive and just
speaking about the body in herlanguage, and so one of the ways
she described it to me that wasso helpful was if, if you are a
(28:13):
person that, like you, go inand your numbers are pretty,
pretty low, like mine, werepretty bad and then you add
these things Cause I think rightoff the bat because you know I
had the autoimmune stuff, it waslike I didn't.
I mean it was like estrogen,progesterone, testosterone, a
thyroid and then a thyroidmedicine and then also, like you
(28:38):
know, vitamin D and whateverand whatever, so it was quite a
chunk.
Yeah, it was a lot of things andit was weird.
I equally felt like I wasfeeling better and I also felt
like I weirdly amped up and and,and Deborah said well, melinda,
it's because, like in Chinesemedicine we would say, all of
(29:01):
those things kind of like stokedyour fire.
Oh yeah, cause they really lookat things.
You know they're all themeridians that they know, but
but then they really tie in ourbodies to the element to like
fire or you know, know air andwater, and so she was like you
just added so much fire and yourbody hasn't had that.
It's to me.
(29:22):
That it's to me when you saidit about the barbie jeep yeah
it's like like the barbie jeepyeah, the barbie jeep just got
plugged back in and she is readyto go on the go and it kind of
feels a little jolty when you'rein the passenger seat, yeah it
is.
So I was like, okay, she said,just be patient and let the
medicine do its work.
And so I just want to encouragepeople to, you know, have
(29:47):
encouraging voices.
Yeah, yeah, you know yourprovider, your maybe, maybe,
honestly, a counselor.
You know just somebody that youcan talk to that is going to
speak like positively and helpyou.
Because I just feel like atthat point I was, it was like
weird, I knew in my brain, Ireally could feel in my mind,
(30:08):
okay, things are happening, thisis good, but truly I would.
I just kind of hit like alittle, I think it's when things
were just shifting andadjusting and I was like, oh my
gosh, am I okay?
I feel kind of nutty.
I thought I was going to likethe birds were going to be
singing, and so I think I likethat.
Yeah, I feel like.
I feel like we just have to bepatient and I love that you keep
(30:31):
looking at labs, I mean that'sa good yeah, that's nice too.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
And just chipping away, you know and being
consistent with consistency.
Consistency with your nutrition, consistency with exercising
weight training is one of my,like, favorite things for women
as we age.
Yoga, like things that are justgoing to support your, your
bone health, your brain function.
Um, fiber and protein there areall sorts of things.
(31:01):
Supplementation that's targetedI love to look at nutrient
levels so that we know what yourbody needs.
You know, I don't think my mom'sgoing to listen to this.
I hope she doesn't.
Maybe she probably will, um,but like she's one that will,
I'll get her all situated andthen she will buy 25 things off
of Instagram.
That was like this influencersaid that I should take this and
(31:24):
this, and then she feelsterrible.
I'm like, well, what are youtaking?
And then she's like Mom, youare getting 10 times the vitamin
A that you need to be gettingright now, like you're going to
you know.
So targeting and tailoringsupplementation to your body,
not just what the masses aresaying, you know that you need
to take, I think, can be veryhealing and very beneficial.
(31:47):
And having support, I mean truly.
I really believe that havingfriends and community in your
life who are kind of walking inthe same season or ahead of you,
who can say it's going to beokay, I'm with you, I get it,
just get it, you know, and justto be believed.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I mean, I think I was listening to a podcast the
other day about a wholedifferent thing.
It was.
It's it's so fascinating.
But anyway, have you heard ofthe telepathy tapes?
It is about nonverbal autisticchildren and how their parents
have been just kind of pleadingfor years, Like my child is, is
(32:31):
in there and is very smart, justbecause you can't hear them
speak, and so anyway, it's wild,their abilities that these
parents are sharing, and thatnow a couple of doctors have
decided to believe them and tostudy these kids.
And one of the girls, one ofthe children, said the minute
(32:51):
somebody believed me, I gothealthier and stronger and
smarter and doing better inschool.
And it was like, of course,like isn't that just?
That's just like that.
We need to be seen and knownand validated.
It's like.
It's like those core values,and so those apply here too.
And I think, I think in thisseason you can feel frustrated
(33:13):
because it takes a little timeto figure things out and maybe
you feel dismissed, but don'tlet that defeat you.
Keep trying to find somewhere.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
you feel connected and supported.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I think so, just like in motherhood right.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Absolutely being seen and heard is just, I think, at
a core.
It's like a core need of women.
You know, I was thinking I wastalking to my husband this
morning just reading, studyingthe Bible, and I was like, you
know, it's just so interesting.
I'm always taken aback by howJesus approached people, and
(33:49):
especially the woman at the well, Like he did not immediately
tell her what she had done wrong.
Right, you know like heapproached her and talked to her
, heard her, saw her and heardher and then offered her a
solution you know, and I justthought that's such a beautiful
depiction of how I thinkmedicine should be is listening
(34:12):
first and versus, you know,coming in with well.
Well, this is what you need.
I had a patient today who toldme that she kept gaining weight.
Again, this was 15 years ago.
She was like I just was in mylate 30s, early 40s.
Every time I would go into mydaughter every three months, I
would pick up 10 pounds, 10pounds.
And she was like I know no oneever drew laps on me, not once.
(34:34):
And she was like I remember mydoctor telling me that I need to
do exercise more and eat less.
And she was like I was doingthat and it wasn't working.
And sure enough, 10 years later, she has a major thyroid
disorder.
That's been, you know, and thisis in in rural Georgia, but
that's just gone unnoticed for10 years and the damage of that
(34:59):
is really impactful on a womanover time.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
You know, I just I'm in, I'm in my Pilates
certification training and wedid um, probably two or three
weeks about um kind of thebiases that particularly to
women, because most of ourclients will be women and one of
the things was just aboutobesity and how doctors default
(35:27):
to you need to, you need to loseweight.
Instead of like addressing that, this woman said first of all,
some women are in bigger bodiesand they are healthy in their
bigger body and they're fine.
So, their, their bigger body isnot the issue at all.
And then, if, if their weightis an issue, well, maybe it's
(35:49):
not because she's not eatingright, maybe it's because she
has a thyroid issue.
And it just so.
One of the ladies in my programshared that one of her dear
friends kept saying to thedoctor something's issue.
And it just so.
One of the ladies in my programshared that one of her dear
friends kept saying to thedoctor something's wrong.
And they, and anyway, yearsdown the road she gets diagnosed
with thyroid cancer.
Wow, and she probably she hadsomething wrong with her?
thyroid all along.
It was just devastating.
So I'm with you, like listeningand and believing, like well, I
(36:13):
mean believing the patient andbelieving the person, and so I
just want people to feelconfident in advocating for
yourself and like finding thedoctor that you need and the
provider that will listen to you.
They are out there and you canjust I mean, johnny and I are
big networkers and you are tooand it's like just keep asking
(36:34):
around, just keep asking untilyou find what you need.
And I think that that isprobably one of our biggest
blessings.
It's just been the people we'vemet through other people and
just like we keep trying.
You know, get a bad babysitter,okay, that one doesn't come
back, try again.
I can't ask him.
So we have to do that forourselves here too, and we've
done it for our kids all thistime, and we need to do it for
(36:55):
ourselves right now.
So yeah absolutely Well, y'all,we're at our time, but, brooks,
thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Oh my gosh, we could just like have you all the time?
Speaker 1 (37:06):
You're so sweet and you're just so your heart.
I just love how your heart isso big for the ladies that you
are looking out for.
So thank you so much for coming.
Thank you for having me andy'all thanks for listening and
if you have questions or youwant to write in and just let us
know your experience, we wantto keep having this conversation
, so reach out to us and untilnext time, have an awesome week
(37:30):
and we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Thank you for joining us on the empty nest quest.
We hope today's episode broughtyou inspiration, insight and a
sense of community.
Remember this is your time tothrive.
If you enjoyed the show, besure to subscribe, leave a
review and share it with friends.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Stay connected with us on YouTube and Instagram at
Empty Nest Quest Podcast formore resources and updates.
Until next time, keep embracingthe journey and thriving on
your empty nest quest.
Welcome to the Empty Nest Quest, the podcast where we
redefine midlife and embracethe journey ahead.
Join your hosts, jennifer andMelinda, as we share inspiring
stories, helpful hints,entrepreneurial advice and tips
that will have you thriving notjust surviving, during this
transformative time of your life.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Whether you're approaching the empty nest phase
or already navigating it, we'rehere to support you every step
of the way.
Let's embark on this questtogether.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Hey y'all, welcome to the Empty Nest Quest.
I have Brooks Vaughn with ustoday and Jennifer is not with
us because she is teaching cutelittle babies, but thank you for
being back with us, Brooks.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Thank you for having me back.
I feel like this is way calmer.
I look better, I have makeup onmy hair's not on top of my head
.
I can pay attention because I'ma toddler jumping up and down.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
You handled that like a boss.
I don't know if y'all heard thelast episode where we had
Brooks but she had her sweetlittle baby and he was just busy
as a bee All over the place.
He was, he was.
That was in the picture youposted later was so funny.
He had like food, was it?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
yogurt, I don't even know Yogurt.
He had climbed on the table atone point.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I was like so she kept her sweet little toddler
alive.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
And it's funny, though, because he naps every
day during that like three hourwindow and that was the like.
It's probably 1% of the timethat he will not go down for a
nap, and that was that day.
I'm like what in the world?
I planned this perfectly andyou will not go to sleep, I know
it is.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I swear.
I feel like it was like thatwith my girls too.
It would be like I wouldfinally be like okay, we've been
napping like this for a longtime, I can plan for somebody to
drop by the house for 30minutes, and it would just
inevitably be the day where itwas like haha not on your life.
It's like sometimes they canfeel it, you know they can feel
your like reliance on their napand they're like what's
(02:00):
happening.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
And I'm missing.
I they're like what's happeningand I'm missing.
I can't, yeah, I can't missthat.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Well, okay y'all.
So last time Brooks gave us somuch information, we got so much
really amazing feedback.
People were so grateful to hearall of your wisdom, so it was
awesome.
And then Jennifer and I haveseen a lot of you know,
confusion.
You know confusion.
We hear our friends feelingconfused about this season and
(02:28):
you know what people say is okayto take, what's not okay.
And so Jennifer was like Ithink it'd be great if Brooks
would just kind of maybe talk tous about some of like the
misunderstandings and what yousee.
I mean you're seeing patientsevery day.
You see what.
You see how confused we are.
Well, I mean it is.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It is confusing.
There's so much out there rightnow.
That's you know contradictory.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yes, and I think I think if.
Well, some of the things thatare confusing are just the women
who go, which we addressed lasttime, and they're just told
like, hey, this is just a spaceof life, you have to live with
it.
And then you know, I wasreading Mary Haver's book and it
listed just right off the batlike almost 70 symptoms you can
(03:12):
have.
Yeah, that sound like everyother symptom.
Yes, for every other thing, yep.
So, no wonder we're so confused.
But some of what.
So I think we all can agreethat it's confusing and our
bodies are like what, what?
And it's like another pubertyfeeling time.
But part of what I feel likethe debate or really feelings
(03:36):
people get real emotional about,is this whole idea of hormone
replacement therapy and who isit right for.
Is it safe?
Our moms thought it wasn't.
What do we do?
You know how do we take it,who's okay?
And so maybe if you could justtalk a little, just as, and just
(03:56):
remember y'all this is notmedical advice for you.
This is two people talking thatare curious and want to just
share, just so that you'll goout and talk to your doctor and
your provider and find the paththat's right for you, and to
know that there might be morepaths than you've been
introduced to is really our goalis just to be walk alongside
(04:17):
you.
So yes yes.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I agree, and you know it's interesting too with
hormone replacement therapy.
It is, I tell our patients allthe time it's not for everybody,
some women don't feel better onit and you know I'm a big
proponent of in our clinic.
I'm in the passenger seat,you're in the driver's seat and
(04:40):
I'm listening to you when itcomes to how do you feel, what
do you, what have you noticed?
Because we do have somepatients who very few, but we've
tried all different routes andthere are maybe better options
than HRT.
But in general it can be a lifechanger for a lot of women if
(05:01):
it's done correctly andappropriately, and you know.
So, yeah, as far as who is itright for?
Versus when do you start it?
You know, I'll kind of take youback a little bit to the
confusion behind it.
So years ago I said the otherday the late 1900s, like the
(05:22):
1990s.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Makes me feel so old, the late 1900s like the 1990s.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Makes me feel so old.
There was a big study and I'msure you've read all about this.
I know probably all of yourfollowers have heard this if
they're, especially on socialmedia but it's called the
Women's Health Initiative and itwas the first large.
Before that WHI we had prettygood, substantial data on HRT
(05:50):
and the benefits of HRT.
Before the WHI I think it wascalled the feminine movement.
It was back in the MarilynMonroe era when women were
learning more about longevityand youthfulness and it's kind
of when estrogen and birthcontrol and HRT came on the
(06:12):
market and there were somereally good studies that showed
the benefit of estradiol orestrogen and HRT when it came to
bone protection andcardiovascular protection.
The Women's Health Initiativewas really the first large-scale
randomized control trial tostudy the safety versus the
(06:35):
risks and the efficacy of HRTand they had three arms to that
trial.
They had one group of women whotook placebo.
They had one group of women whotook placebo.
They had one group of women whohad uter, intact, uteruses, so
they had not had hysterectomies,and that group of women were
given, was given estradiol um inthe form of primarin which was
(06:57):
conjugated.
I say estradiol estrogen in theform of primarin which was
conjugated horse urine.
So they, this type of estrogen,was derived from pregnant
horses, which is notbioidentical, it's not identical
to what our bodies make and whoknows what those horses were
given as far as antibiotics andgrowth hormones.
(07:19):
They were kept pregnant andthen they were given a synthetic
form of progesterone, and thenthey were given a synthetic form
of progesterone, and then thethird group of women had
undergone hysterectomies, and sowe know that if you don't have
a uterus, it's not mandatory totake progesterone.
If you take estrogen, we stillin our clinic really like
(07:39):
progesterone for the systemicbenefits that we get from
progesterone and a lot of times,if you just take estrogen,
sometimes that mismatchedprogesterone counteracts
estrogen.
In a sense.
Estrogen lubricates things.
It draws water in.
Progesterone sort of is anatural diuretic.
(08:00):
It also helps with sleep andmood.
It's a natural anti-inflammatory, and so I still like
progesterone for a lot of ourpatients, depending on the
person.
But back to the hysterectomy.
If you don't have a uterus andyou take estrogen, no harm, no
(08:21):
foul.
If you have a uterus and youtake estrogen and you're not
ovulating or you're not takingprogesterone, that estrogen can
thicken your uterine lining andso, without progesterone, over
time that can cause uterinecancer.
So that's why women who have auterus, if they take systemic
estrogen whether that be a patchor a shot or a pill or the mist
(08:46):
you need to take progesteroneas well.
So the group of women that didnot have a uterus were just
given estrogen.
Well, that halfway through thestudy they saw a slight
increased risk in breast cancerin the middle group, the women
who were taking estrogen withprogesterone, and so and I you
know I could talk about this forhours, but I'm going to kind of
(09:08):
condense it so the study washalted and basically the
headlines were hormonereplacement therapy causes
breast cancer and there were acouple of other things.
When it came to cardiovascularhealth, we know now, based on
lots of data, that estrogen canbe very helpful for our arteries
(09:30):
and our heart if we start itprior to heart disease setting
in, or atherosclerosis settingin.
Long story short, that studyreally vilified HRT because then
everyone was scared to death ofbreast cancer.
You hear the word cancer and itdoesn't like hot flashes don't
(09:51):
matter anymore and really HRTback in those days was just for
that indication, hot flashes.
And we know now that there's somuch more to it and we know now
that there's so much more to it.
So that really sort of thatstudy has driven like it's been
(10:14):
in medical school curriculum.
It was in my curriculum back,you know, 10 plus years ago and
it's just stayed with doctorsand NPs and PAs for years and so
that's really, unless you'refollowing the data year after
year, that's the big one andthat's what people remember.
Thankfully now that thosefindings were actually redacted
(10:38):
this past year, because they Imean it was a faulty study.
There were a lot of things thatwere done wrong with it.
They've done it.
What's interesting is the groupof women who just had were
given estrogen, who did not havea uterus, had lower rates of
breast cancer even compared tothe general population.
And they've done 20 year followup studies on women who had
(11:00):
hysterectomies, who stayed onestrogen.
Those women have significantlylower rates of breast cancer
compared to the even the generalpopulation.
So it's interesting thatestrogen causes breast cancer.
What we believe is that it's thecombination of synthetic
progesterone with the wrong typeof estrogen that's inflammatory
(11:23):
, that can feed cancer cells,that can cause issues.
So plant-based bioidenticalprogesterone is very different
than synthetic progesterone andit can be very anti-inflammatory
, very protective of the breasttissue.
So we've got some newer datanow that really kind of
(11:44):
highlights that and I think overthe next decade we will have a
lot more studies you knowfunding towards these kind of
studies to prove the benefitsversus the risk and not to say
that there are no risks.
I mean there can definitely berisks with.
HRT.
Yes, I mean some people.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Tylenol relieves their headache and some people
it damages their liver rightaway.
Yes, you know.
So everything has.
I think we get so used to theconvenience of what that has
become routine or that we heareverybody does and we sort of
forget that there are people outthere questioning, testing,
(12:28):
still looking in because we getto just benefit and live our
lives and take whatever ourdoctor tells us.
And but there there is more.
There's always more informationcoming back, you know yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
And you know, I think too, one of the things that I
have seen, and even mepersonally as a provider and a
patient and a mom I think COVIDreally caused us as a population
to kind of take a step back andthink for ourselves a little
bit and question things.
You know, and I think it alsothe rise of social media in a
(13:05):
good way has been veryeye-opening to women because,
you know, before this was sortof something that you just
talked about behind the closeddoors of the doctor's office or
with your friends, but they wereall being told the same thing
from their doctors.
And now there's just so muchmore information that you know
(13:25):
you do question if somebody islike, oh that's terrible, we
would never put you on thatbecause that's going to give you
cancer, when in reality, youknow, I always kind of caution
to my patients.
Breast cancer is not theleading cause of death in women,
it's heart disease, right, andheart disease.
The only drug that has beenactually proven to reduce the
(13:46):
risk of heart disease in womenis estrogen, isn't that
fascinating and we know thatmenopause is when we see, when a
woman goes through menopause,that transition estrogen,
progesterone, typically alsotestosterone those three
hormones drop.
We see an increase in LDLcholesterol, which is our bad
cholesterol.
We see an increase in heartdisease, an increase in insulin
(14:09):
resistance and blood sugarissues.
And so many of our patients Ibelieve them when they say
nothing else has changed, LikeI've never had high cholesterol,
I've never had blood sugarissues.
I'm doing exactly what I didfive years ago, if not better.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yes, I mean that's what's crazy is you get to our
phase of life?
And I feel like most of us arereally for the most part, I mean
, that's what's crazy.
Is you get to our phase of life?
And I feel like most of us arereally for the most part.
I mean, you and I are in suchdifferent phases.
You are chasing two littlebitties.
So if you get a whole meal downand your sweet little body is
like a miracle.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
We have time to sit and eat a whole meal, Brooks.
And so we are like you knowwhat I mean?
Like all the things you'redoing that you're like, oh, if I
had time I would also do this.
Like we have time to do thatnow and we're doing it and we're
like so why do I not feelamazing?
So no, I get that because whenI had my you know, blood work
done, I was shocked in mycholesterol stuff, Cause I was
like what I've never, I've I'venever gravitated towards the
(15:05):
super bad stuff that reallytakes you to bad cholesterol
numbers.
And I'm, and then, and thenwhat drives me nuts is the well,
it's probably just hereditary.
Then, yeah, I'm like, oh, mystars, so, um, yeah.
And then I think so I went to a, an event where they play they,
um, yes, Um, gosh, my brainbrain fogy o'reilly, that's in
(15:31):
athens, did that event and itwas the m factor, that movie.
So there was a cardiologistthere.
I can't remember her name, well, she's in atlanta.
Yes, I know exactly who you'retalking about, but I can't
remember her name, but she did agreat job of talking about,
like, all the places in our bodythat have, as women, that have
estrogen receptors and so ifthey have estrogen receptors,
(15:54):
they need estrogen floatingaround in our bodies, like
helping the communication stayactive.
And the way she described thatwas just so like oh my gosh.
And she talks specificallyabout the heart because she's a
cardiologist and it was soinsightful and it made me think
of just so many women that Ithat I know in my own life that
have had a hard stuff once.
(16:14):
They got like past 40 even,yeah, and so I think that is
fascinating, like that statisticthat you just said.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
She also said about, you know, heart disease and I
was like, oh my gosh, yes, it iscrazy how and you know, yes,
the standard American diet forsure plays a factor in that.
But I mean, like you said, somany of my patients are in their
30s and 40s and they're doingbetter than they've ever done
before because they're so muchmore educated on you know, and
(16:44):
we've got availability to allthese good resources now, and
you know it's interesting toowith our brain.
So I don't know if you saw themenopause special on.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Oprah oh, I haven't watched the whole thing.
I'm glad you mentioned thatI've been wanting.
Yeah, I need to do that.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
It's really interesting.
I mean, they do a good job.
She has a neuro I think I don'tknow if it's a psychiatrist or
a neurologist this doctor fromStanford, and she talks about
women's brains, the studies thathave done on women's brains as
we go through menopause, and shesaid, you know, it's regional,
(17:22):
it's not whole brain changes,but we see regional changes in
women's brains as they loseestrogen.
So as estrogen drops, brainchanges.
And so she talks so much abouthow preventable neuro
neurological issues likedementia and obviously it's not
just estrogen, it's blood sugarand you know.
(17:44):
But from a from a neurologicalstandpoint, we even know that as
we go through menopause, ourbrain changes and that you know,
you know that just in talkingwith your friends and yourself,
things the way that you, youknow, cognition changes, but
also in a good way.
It's interesting.
Some of the women were like ina good way, I I feel like I am
(18:07):
also more confident in who I amand I don't care as much about
what other people think.
It's really a great thing.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
And I always tell people, if God wanted me to care
more, he'd let me keep all myestrogen.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
So, yes, yeah, and God wanted us to be yeah, he's
like, I'm going to let you notcare.
Like you used to, it's notgoing to matter.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yes, yeah, oh my gosh .
Yeah, it's funny that you saythat, cause we were.
I was at Johnny and I were at aconcert with some friends and
it was one of those where we hadnot been to that new Roxy venue
in Atlanta and we didn't getthe seated seats that were up in
the balcony.
We were on the floor, well, sofirst of all, we're like that's
fine, we just went to countrymusic festival like we can hang,
(18:52):
we can stand here, and it waslike a frat party brooks, it's
like all these young collegepeople and everybody's bumping
into each other and you can justimagine, okay yeah, and it was
hot and I don't know whathappened, because I'm really
don't have all that hot, youknow, heat issue anymore now
that I'm doing like hormonereplacement stuff.
But that night I looked at myfriend.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I was like I don't have enough estrogen to be here
I think I need to exit thebuilding and she was like, oh my
gosh.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So she told me she was like that's my new point.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I'm just telling everybody.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I do think it just sort of there is an interesting
thing in this phase of life thatit does I don't know Like it
really does kind of let you comeinto your own a little more,
and I'm sure it also has to dowith, if you are a person that
has raised children, that you'vealso probably like pretty much
launched your kids at this point.
(19:43):
So there's also that freedom,and so it kind of all happens
simultaneously, and probably ifyou're still working, you feel
more secure at work and feelmore like yourself.
So I think it's like acombination of things, but I
think for women specifically, itcertainly has to relate to
these things in our body.
I know Well, okay, so one morething.
Um, so I wanted to talk, Iwanted you to address a little
(20:06):
bit about if somebody because Idid see, when Jennifer was
talking about her friend's post,that somebody said, well, if I
can't remember what this did,this lady is there like maybe if
people have had cancer orsomething they can't do,
hormones, or if it's a, I feellike somebody said something
like that.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
It's very specific to specific types of breast cancer
Estrogen receptor positive orestrogen and progesterone
receptor positive breast cancer.
A lot of times they want noestrogen running through your
body at all.
Now those women can do topicalvaginal estrogen that's
something that I will shout fromthe rooftops for patients who
have had breast cancer who can'thave systemic estrogen.
(20:47):
That's something that I willshout from the rooftops for
patients who have had breastcancer who can't have systemic
estrogen.
You don't realize the effectthat that actually has on your
bladder, your vaginal health.
We see so many patients whohave recurrent UTIs and painful
intercourse and vaginal dryness,chronic yeast or chronic
bacterial infections, andthey're just all you know.
(21:10):
They're just treat.
You're treating the eachinfection as it comes, when in
reality, a lot of times it'sbecause, as we lose estrogen,
estrogen lubricates things.
It also helps with our vaginalmicrobiome our vaginal bacteria,
and it also really helps withsupport, like supporting our
(21:31):
bladder and supporting, you know, that tissue around it.
And so if you have a friendthat has had breast cancer and
was told she cannot takeestrogen, topical estrogen is
not absorbed into thebloodstream and so it's local
kind of like if you put lotionon your face, essentially, and
it can be a lifesaver for somany women.
(21:52):
Thankfully, there are a lot ofgood menopause specialists on
social media that are sayingthis.
There's a doctor her name is DrMin M-E-N-N and she's a breast
cancer survivor and she talks alot about the safety of vaginal
estrogen and breast cancersurvivors and also the
conversation that women shouldbe offered if they've had breast
(22:16):
cancer around HRT, becauseultimately, there are risks and
benefits to everything.
You know, she's a great personto follow if you have a friend
that has breast cancer or hashad breast cancer.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Or is scared of reasons not to want to do HRT.
Well, and then?
So how long do should we say ifwe started HRT?
How, how long should it takefor us to maybe feel like we
turn, we've turned a corner, orhow long should we give things,
(22:48):
or what else should maybe we trybesides just HRT?
I mean, like I know that, youknow, I was told that if I
really wanted to go cause I haveHashimoto's, so that it was
like, okay, if you really wantto go at this hard, like try to
be gluten free, these, obviouslyyou don't have to do these
things, but these are greatthings to try and I was just
(23:08):
like, okay, what is it?
You know, I was like, oh gosh,it was like try to be
gluten-free, try to bedairy-free, try to reduce your
sugar, don't drink alcohol.
And there was one more, therewere five things.
And I was like, okay, I'll trythose, I'll try all those, and
(23:29):
and it has helped, but like Ithink I wasn't ready for how
long it was going to take for itto help.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, so I think, you spoke to that a little like
yeah, yes, because I do think wewant.
We want so badly and expectlike in two days I'm gonna feel
like, oh, you know, and it is aprocess.
I always say, especially withautoimmune menopause, it's like
we're turning a ship, not acanoe.
So it's going to be a processand with HRT there's an
(23:53):
adjustment period too.
That's that a lot of peoplearen't really aware of.
They expect to start it andjust instantly feel better, or
if they feel worse, they thinkthis isn't right for me.
And there's definitely a processof your body adjusting to
adding hormones in.
We typically say give it eightweeks to really start to see.
(24:13):
And then we I like to do bloodwork, I like to monitor levels
when you're on HRT and kind oftake those levels as well as
your symptoms and decidetogether what do we need to
tweak a little bit?
Do we need to go up?
Do we need to go up?
Do we need to go down?
Because women absorb andthankfully data is starting to
(24:35):
actually support that approach.
For years we were told there'sno point in testing women's
hormone levels once you startthem on HRT.
Just go by their symptoms.
But your symptoms I mean, yes,I can basically, based on doing
this for a while, I know whatthe symptoms are of too much
(24:55):
estrogen or too muchtestosterone, but you really
don't.
I mean, sometimes I'm shockedby blood work and people absorb
things so differently.
Everyone is so unique and howtheir skin or their digestive
system absorbs things.
And so and we do have some gooddata to support levels being at
(25:15):
a certain number to give usheart like estrogen.
I really like to be above 50 to60, because there's good data
to support that it when, whenour estradiol levels are in that
range or higher, we don't wantit too high either because then
we, you know, at that pointwe're going to have breast
tenderness, we're going to haveweight gain, we're going to have
(25:35):
bloating, but when it's above50 to 60, it's protecting our
bones, it's protecting our heart.
And so there's a range in therebetween 50 and 150-ish
somewhere in there that we canwork with based on how you feel.
But we know that there's sortof an optimal window to give you
the other benefits from abodily standpoint.
(25:59):
But I typically we typicallytell our patients when you start
on it, give it at least eightweeks to adjust to it.
Once we get to that eight weekmark, then we kind of know okay,
this is how you're going tofeel on this dose of whatever
you're taking.
And then, typically betweeneight and 12 weeks, we look at
labs to see where we are and webase it on your symptoms and how
(26:20):
you're feeling A lot of times.
Initially women will feelbloated.
There's a draw estrogensdrawing in water.
Progesterone does sort of delaydigestion at first, so women
will feel bloated.
There's a draw estrogensdrawing in water.
Progesterone does sort of delaydigestion at first, so women
will feel worse before they feelbetter.
They'll feel bloated, they'llhave constipation.
Those aren't things that you're.
You really hear as much Um, butthen usually that totally
(26:44):
resolves your fluid level shift.
Estrogen kind of balances out.
Progesterone acts as a diureticeventually and women feel less
bloated and less puffy thanbefore.
And then from there it can takesome time to find the right
dose and the right route becauseeveryone is so unique.
(27:07):
So we have no way.
I wish there was like a magiceight ball or some kind of DNA
test that we could say this iswhat you need.
So we, we do tailor it based onthe person and it can take up
to a year.
Truly to figure out what worksbest for you, what dose works
best.
(27:27):
It's a lot trickier inperimenopause versus menopause,
because perimenopause you'resort of on a roller coaster ride
and things are changing.
Menopause you've kind offlatline, so we're on a flat
road.
So it's less tricky once wefind the right dose and the
right route, versus, you know,when your body's sort of on a
(27:48):
yeah, a little bit of arollercoaster ride.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, no, I think that's a really good way to
describe it, cause I am inperimenopause and it has been a
rollercoaster ride for sure, andI also have a really great
acupuncturist, and so she's beenreally supportive and just
speaking about the body in herlanguage, and so one of the ways
she described it to me that wasso helpful was if, if you are a
(28:13):
person that, like you, go inand your numbers are pretty,
pretty low, like mine, werepretty bad and then you add
these things Cause I think rightoff the bat because you know I
had the autoimmune stuff, it waslike I didn't.
I mean it was like estrogen,progesterone, testosterone, a
thyroid and then a thyroidmedicine and then also, like you
(28:38):
know, vitamin D and whateverand whatever, so it was quite a
chunk.
Yeah, it was a lot of things andit was weird.
I equally felt like I wasfeeling better and I also felt
like I weirdly amped up and and,and Deborah said well, melinda,
it's because, like in Chinesemedicine we would say, all of
(29:01):
those things kind of like stokedyour fire.
Oh yeah, cause they really lookat things.
You know they're all themeridians that they know, but
but then they really tie in ourbodies to the element to like
fire or you know, know air andwater, and so she was like you
just added so much fire and yourbody hasn't had that.
It's to me.
(29:22):
That it's to me when you saidit about the barbie jeep yeah
it's like like the barbie jeepyeah, the barbie jeep just got
plugged back in and she is readyto go on the go and it kind of
feels a little jolty when you'rein the passenger seat, yeah it
is.
So I was like, okay, she said,just be patient and let the
medicine do its work.
And so I just want to encouragepeople to, you know, have
(29:47):
encouraging voices.
Yeah, yeah, you know yourprovider, your maybe, maybe,
honestly, a counselor.
You know just somebody that youcan talk to that is going to
speak like positively and helpyou.
Because I just feel like atthat point I was, it was like
weird, I knew in my brain, Ireally could feel in my mind,
(30:08):
okay, things are happening, thisis good, but truly I would.
I just kind of hit like alittle, I think it's when things
were just shifting andadjusting and I was like, oh my
gosh, am I okay?
I feel kind of nutty.
I thought I was going to likethe birds were going to be
singing, and so I think I likethat.
Yeah, I feel like.
I feel like we just have to bepatient and I love that you keep
(30:31):
looking at labs, I mean that'sa good yeah, that's nice too.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
And just chipping away, you know and being
consistent with consistency.
Consistency with your nutrition, consistency with exercising
weight training is one of my,like, favorite things for women
as we age.
Yoga, like things that are justgoing to support your, your
bone health, your brain function.
Um, fiber and protein there areall sorts of things.
(31:01):
Supplementation that's targetedI love to look at nutrient
levels so that we know what yourbody needs.
You know, I don't think my mom'sgoing to listen to this.
I hope she doesn't.
Maybe she probably will, um,but like she's one that will,
I'll get her all situated andthen she will buy 25 things off
of Instagram.
That was like this influencersaid that I should take this and
(31:24):
this, and then she feelsterrible.
I'm like, well, what are youtaking?
And then she's like Mom, youare getting 10 times the vitamin
A that you need to be gettingright now, like you're going to
you know.
So targeting and tailoringsupplementation to your body,
not just what the masses aresaying, you know that you need
to take, I think, can be veryhealing and very beneficial.
(31:47):
And having support, I mean truly.
I really believe that havingfriends and community in your
life who are kind of walking inthe same season or ahead of you,
who can say it's going to beokay, I'm with you, I get it,
just get it, you know, and justto be believed.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I mean, I think I was listening to a podcast the
other day about a wholedifferent thing.
It was.
It's it's so fascinating.
But anyway, have you heard ofthe telepathy tapes?
It is about nonverbal autisticchildren and how their parents
have been just kind of pleadingfor years, Like my child is, is
(32:31):
in there and is very smart, justbecause you can't hear them
speak, and so anyway, it's wild,their abilities that these
parents are sharing, and thatnow a couple of doctors have
decided to believe them and tostudy these kids.
And one of the girls, one ofthe children, said the minute
(32:51):
somebody believed me, I gothealthier and stronger and
smarter and doing better inschool.
And it was like, of course,like isn't that just?
That's just like that.
We need to be seen and knownand validated.
It's like.
It's like those core values,and so those apply here too.
And I think, I think in thisseason you can feel frustrated
(33:13):
because it takes a little timeto figure things out and maybe
you feel dismissed, but don'tlet that defeat you.
Keep trying to find somewhere.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
you feel connected and supported.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I think so, just like in motherhood right.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Absolutely being seen and heard is just, I think, at
a core.
It's like a core need of women.
You know, I was thinking I wastalking to my husband this
morning just reading, studyingthe Bible, and I was like, you
know, it's just so interesting.
I'm always taken aback by howJesus approached people, and
(33:49):
especially the woman at the well, Like he did not immediately
tell her what she had done wrong.
Right, you know like heapproached her and talked to her
, heard her, saw her and heardher and then offered her a
solution you know, and I justthought that's such a beautiful
depiction of how I thinkmedicine should be is listening
(34:12):
first and versus, you know,coming in with well.
Well, this is what you need.
I had a patient today who toldme that she kept gaining weight.
Again, this was 15 years ago.
She was like I just was in mylate 30s, early 40s.
Every time I would go into mydaughter every three months, I
would pick up 10 pounds, 10pounds.
And she was like I know no oneever drew laps on me, not once.
(34:34):
And she was like I remember mydoctor telling me that I need to
do exercise more and eat less.
And she was like I was doingthat and it wasn't working.
And sure enough, 10 years later, she has a major thyroid
disorder.
That's been, you know, and thisis in in rural Georgia, but
that's just gone unnoticed for10 years and the damage of that
(34:59):
is really impactful on a womanover time.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
You know, I just I'm in, I'm in my Pilates
certification training and wedid um, probably two or three
weeks about um kind of thebiases that particularly to
women, because most of ourclients will be women and one of
the things was just aboutobesity and how doctors default
(35:27):
to you need to, you need to loseweight.
Instead of like addressing that, this woman said first of all,
some women are in bigger bodiesand they are healthy in their
bigger body and they're fine.
So, their, their bigger body isnot the issue at all.
And then, if, if their weightis an issue, well, maybe it's
(35:49):
not because she's not eatingright, maybe it's because she
has a thyroid issue.
And it just so.
One of the ladies in my programshared that one of her dear
friends kept saying to thedoctor something's issue.
And it just so.
One of the ladies in my programshared that one of her dear
friends kept saying to thedoctor something's wrong.
And they, and anyway, yearsdown the road she gets diagnosed
with thyroid cancer.
Wow, and she probably she hadsomething wrong with her?
thyroid all along.
It was just devastating.
So I'm with you, like listeningand and believing, like well, I
(36:13):
mean believing the patient andbelieving the person, and so I
just want people to feelconfident in advocating for
yourself and like finding thedoctor that you need and the
provider that will listen to you.
They are out there and you canjust I mean, johnny and I are
big networkers and you are tooand it's like just keep asking
(36:34):
around, just keep asking untilyou find what you need.
And I think that that isprobably one of our biggest
blessings.
It's just been the people we'vemet through other people and
just like we keep trying.
You know, get a bad babysitter,okay, that one doesn't come
back, try again.
I can't ask him.
So we have to do that forourselves here too, and we've
done it for our kids all thistime, and we need to do it for
(36:55):
ourselves right now.
So yeah absolutely Well, y'all,we're at our time, but, brooks,
thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Oh my gosh, we could just like have you all the time?
Speaker 1 (37:06):
You're so sweet and you're just so your heart.
I just love how your heart isso big for the ladies that you
are looking out for.
So thank you so much for coming.
Thank you for having me andy'all thanks for listening and
if you have questions or youwant to write in and just let us
know your experience, we wantto keep having this conversation
, so reach out to us and untilnext time, have an awesome week
(37:30):
and we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Thank you for joining us on the empty nest quest.
We hope today's episode broughtyou inspiration, insight and a
sense of community.
Remember this is your time tothrive.
If you enjoyed the show, besure to subscribe, leave a
review and share it with friends.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Stay connected with us on YouTube and Instagram at
Empty Nest Quest Podcast formore resources and updates.
Until next time, keep embracingthe journey and thriving on
your empty nest quest.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.