February 3, 2025 • 60 mins
Why are Black women’s voices so often dismissed, interrupted, or outright ignored? In this episode of End of a Species, Jeff and Super Solid invite Adorna Lukes and Shaun to dive deep into the systemic and cultural forces that contribute to the erasure of Black women’s voices in politics, media, and everyday life. Through the lens of intersectionality and with the start of Black History Month in the backdrop, we unpack the latest political controversy featuring Jasmine Crockett and examine how certain dishonest actors manipulate identity issues—like trans rights and civil rights—to stoke division while sidelining the real concerns of marginalized communities.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Hey guys.
Hey.
I wanted to know if you guys have seen this.
I was cruising the internet and I
saw this clip with Jasmine Crockett. um I wanted to know if you guys have seen this.
We got there because I I tried to make
it clear how many civil rights it it doesn't
(00:30):
just fall down to one conversation, but I can see
that somebody's campaignign coffers really are struggling
right now. so she gonna keep saying trans trans trans
so that people will feel threatened. and child listen,
I I I want you to I have no whether or not call me a child.
I am no child.
I't even find out which of those fem
(00:52):
I have ceilings in and I' reclaiming my
phone. will not do the experiment.
I am claiming my time. you wanna take it outside.man
the committee is not in order order order order.
Have you have y'all seen that?
No, I' I didn't see that.
That's
(01:14):
on the Congress floor. just we could take it outside.
Catch me outside is actually insane.
Catch me outside is nuts.
Solid muted.
Is he filtering out his laughter.
(01:37):
No, you're good.
You' me outside along with Adora.
it was the it was the hit dog hollering,
you know, like oh, you not your s saying child because I don't understand AAV E at all.
But you're you're calling me a child.
(01:57):
I'm not a child.
I but the the thing is like even
if even if she did, like even
if she's the your even if she said you're a child, like I thought they had, you know,
the court, like you say your thing and then I'll say my thing and I don't have to like do an outbur.
It's not even like, like if you didn't say something,
(02:20):
like your constituents are going to be like, why ain't you say something?
You know what I mean?
Like
there's no, there
isn't a consequence to just being civil and hey, what did you mean by that?
I didn't mean that you were a child.
It's an expression, you know,
Instead, you that looked that little a while, you know what I mean?
(02:44):
I was saying I'm not a child and then immediately acting childish.
Yeah, I mean, I was
going to like leave it to a white person to not understand AAVE
and then cause a scene because of AAV.
Like it's to me, that just seems like
(03:05):
there's there's so many layers here because like, um
for white people, it's like it
for when white people grow up, they tend to I at least I
I think and this is white people that I've been around and they tend to understand AVE more.
So even saying like I'm not a child, but you
have a childlike understanding of AAVE.
(03:28):
It's just
chef's kiss.
Well, I want to say welcome
to the podcast end of a species. um We are.
We are in fact, and of course, I'm Jeff from end of a species.
I'm here with Adornna, Sean and super solid.
Everybody say hello.
(03:49):
Hello.
And um, you know, the audience I should
know us all because you guys were we we run in
a in a group we run in a wild path, but um but
this is mostly going to be y''s show because it's,
you know, happy Black History month.
But also,
(04:09):
today's show is about um specifically
the voices of black women and why people seem
to um silence them,
right?
Um, it's a thing that we see all the time,
whether it's in different civil rights movements, whether it's
in, uh, just normal conversation, whereas
(04:31):
soon like you'll see somebody say something, and as soon as a black
woman black woman interjects,
you hear interruptions or accusations of things.
And so I think it's important for us to um unpack
that and and understand why it happens and what we can do to like address it.
(04:52):
um so so yeah, I want to
get started with just an overall impression from
you guys about um what your
experience is with this and
just a general overview of that.
Yeah, I'll have been. um I see it on
(05:13):
a regular basis. um not only in my professional life, but even
specifically on uh TikTok and like theait talk, where
um, yes, it'll everything will be going smoothly.
And even when speaking um civilly,
etiquette decorum, even when speaking in a way that does not
uh does not show any type of assertiveness
(05:35):
or aggressiveness or hostility immediately met with
uh being disregarded, uh people immediately
assuming that you arenn't correct, people being hostile with me, um people cutting me off. um
yeah, definitely and the assumption, even
when I'm speaking calmly, that I'm not speaking calmly.
(05:58):
It's all the time.
Yeah.
How about you, Sean?
Yeah, so, uh, the
disregarding goes, uh I mean, it depends on,
well, not necessarily, but like I tend to see like different
types of people do different types of things.
Like white women will disregard me in a
(06:19):
different way that like black men will disregard me.
uh, but it's still, you know, disregard in either
way. um the point uh
that like we're talking about here where I guess it's
more so trying to silence black women's voices.
when I go into a place, um a
(06:39):
lot of them try and discount what I'm saying just because I'm trans.
And so they'll say something like, oh, I don't want to listen to you.
You think you're a girl anyway.
And then oftentimes with people like black men, they'll just be like
y'all just going to let this bitch talk.
And I'm just like, why'd you call me a bitch?
If you think I'm a man, why'd you call me a bitch?
(07:01):
I'm just like that's just more
silencing of black women's voices because it's putting you,
me and super solid like this uh YouTube creator called Innuendo Studios.
and he talks about putting people in boxes because if
I can fit you in this box, I don't have to listen to anything you
have to say and they do that with women all the time.
(07:23):
And with black women, I've seen it with adorna.
I've seen it with Athena.
I've seen it with whoever
a black woman you can think of on our side of TikTok.
I haven't even seen it white women where they just start saying like,
oh, you're just a woman or you're just a bitch or you're
just a liberal or you're just whatever to put us in
(07:43):
this box so that they can just disregard everything that we have to say because
if if I can convince people that you're a liberal and they
don't like liberals, I can convince them not to listen to
your argument and then I don't have to rebut
Solid you
(08:03):
and I, I think, have a a different experience from the it almost
seems weird to say like from the outside looking in, right?
But um
I I'll say for me, I
oftentimes see that like, especially with you, Adora and Sean, you guys will make a point
(08:24):
and somebody will skip right over it and then I
will say the same thing and the person
will be will directly address what I said as
if y' didn't say it, and then I have to say like, wait, wait.
you know you're answering what Adorna said.
You know you're actually addressing what Sean said.
You're not talking to me and it
(08:45):
doesn't even register, right?
Um, so first superar,
I want to know if you if you see the same thing and then I want to get everybody else to weigh in on that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um There are times like what I will notice
is that we share arguments a lot, right?
Um
(09:07):
And so what will happen is a lot of times the
men will be credited with using the arguments that the women
created or or developed, right?
um and then they'll go, oh, that's a solid argument.
No, it's not.
That's an ador that's an adora argument.
oh, that's a that's a a Jeff argument.
No, that's not that's a shan argument, right?
(09:29):
And it's like you almost have to
go out of your way, not almost.
You definitely have to go out of your way to say hey, no,
that's not my argument.
You know what I mean?
uh, to give shoutouts, right?
I'll say I'm about to do an adorner, right?
B
before I before I start the argument, right?
(09:55):
um, yeah.
I think that's a the point there, I think is I
don't know why people do um
be erasure, like in in in real time.
I don't know if it's a conscious thing that they're doing.
I don't think no, if it's a a subconscious bias.
(10:16):
Um, I suspect it's both that both
are being done at the same time.
and further, the reaction when you point it out.
So when you point out to somebody, this is what you're doing, and instead
of saying, hey, I'm oh, I didn't realize I'm sorry the negative like
(10:36):
what do you call me a a jackass or something like not
not focusing on the hey, you just did what you did.
No, we have to like counterattack and
uh make ourselves the center of the tension and make ourselves the victim.
And so for to me, it's I don't
want to use the word fascinating, but I'm gonna. uh it's it is
(10:58):
a fascinating thing to see in real time. uh
and I don't know.
It it almost highlights the weakness of people
who run into these conversations without first understanding
uh systems of oppression, marginalization,
intersectionity, et cetera, et cetera, and then want to wait weigh in because that's a lot of the stuff that we talk about, right?
(11:22):
Yeah, I try really hard to, um,
just about never speak, uh, do anecdotals, right?
I try really hard to read up on what I talk about.
I'm looking at reputable sources.
I'm giving stats, et cetera.
And I feel as though I'm just about always
met with a default assumption that I don't know what I'm talking about.
(11:43):
Likeide off the bat, despite any information
that I've given, and despite, you know, it
I'm my stating the sources, it's it's like,
well, obviously my intuition is better, like meaning the person that I'm speaking to.
Their intuition is better because, well, what could you really know?
That's how it feels at least, right?
And then we're we're always gasol lit into thinking
(12:05):
or into what the reasons might be, right?
And so, um I think that it's
obviously a cross between misogyny and I think racisms, we have misogy are
happening where um not only are women considered
less intelligent, but then on top of that, you're a black woman, so what do you really know, right?
So
I tend to,
(12:27):
when people are talking and we're making like I do debates, we do debates.
And whenever I make a point, I tend to find that people
um the same thing.
I mean I've met with a lot of anecdotes and I met with people saying,
I don't know what I'm talking about, but I think for the most part
for me, what I tend to see is people saying things like
(12:49):
you essentially, you think too much.
Like they say like, you you're thinking too hard about this.
You're thinking too much about this.
It's not that serious.
It's just XYZ.
And especially when it comes to when we debate about racism.
They go, you're thinking too much about this thing and it's not really all of this.
It's it's everybody that's under the boot
(13:11):
and all of this other stuff.
And I'm just like, nah, nah, it's not.
Because they just, you know, they want to put us in that box and
that, and for at least racism, that box is like,
oh, this person has a victim mentality.
I know we've all heard that before.
And it's like if you can get people to think like, oh,
this person just thinks that no matter what happens, they're going to be oppressed.
(13:34):
Like they could get a job and they'll be like, I'm oppressed by getting this job.
Like that's what they really think like white supremacists really think we'd be thinking
and they'll just be like you're thinking too much.
I think in addition to that so
already people feel as though we're in a post-racial society, but in addition to that when
(13:56):
when you try to speak about like controlled studies stating that there's
still gender, for example, like a gender wage gap.
People don't believe that these inequalities exist while
at the same time having these subconscious perceptions of these demographics.
So, yeah, it's it's hard to get around.
One thing I notice, and this is just like a stylistic debate thing.
(14:17):
And and I've noticed that both you, Adora and you, Sean, both do this.
When when
the other, and I'm going to say interlocutor, I'm using
that term very generously says something like
like they misgender you, Sean, or they call you dumb adorner
or something like that. generally, you guys
(14:40):
like hurtle right past that and go right back to the
argument, like, na, na na, I know you're trying to distract me.
I don't care that you just call me that.
like deal with what I just said.
Is that like a strategic thing or is that just something you do unconsciously?
Is it is it a decision?
Well, I personally try to keep people on track
(15:03):
because I, um, for me, especially with the TikTok debates, and I think this is with
a lot of TikTok debaters that um, uh, and
in general, the idea for me at least is education.
And so if we allow it to bear off
into just personal personal things as opposed to
actually going back to know, what about the
stat that I just stated, um then we lose completely the
(15:26):
point of what of what you're trying to uh convey.
What what is they're trying to teach, uh the information that you're
trying to give either the person themselves or on the people in the comments section.
So I intentionally tried, I mean,
it doesn't work a lot of tell.
And so there are plenty of times where it's just going
to end up into a um there's going to be a lot of contention.
(15:47):
But I try to at least bring it back to intentionally bring it back to the stats.
For me, it's more
it's I don't think it's necessarily strategic, nor is it,
I mean, I guess you can call it strategic, but
it more so just does not bother me.
(16:08):
Like it does not bother me that you call me a man.
It does not bother me that you say that I'm not really a girl.
It just does not bother me.
I just I do not care about that.
Like Adora said,
I'm in like I started doing stuff
on TikTok because I wanted to educate people about socialism
(16:32):
and especially black people on black
socialism afro Marxism and Africanism, black
nationalism, like I wanted to do that.
And if I'm arguing with someone or debating with someone who
is against those things,
I don't care about you calling me a man.
I don't care what you think about me.
You literally believe that racism doesn't exist,
(16:54):
so like I'm not going to take your word for whether or not I am a girl.
Like that means literally nothing to me.
Like,
I'm not in this to prove myself to a racist
or a homophobe or transphobe.
I'm in this to teach the people in my audience,
like whatever it is that I'm talking about.
(17:15):
And if we're talking about racism, what it whatever it is that
I'm teaching them about racism, if we're talking about
even if we're talking about transphobia, whatever it is about transphobia.
It just to me, um I like pointing it out.
uh, Jeff got me into that where uh we we start pointing out It's like, you see what he did there?
That's because he doesn't have an answer and that gets some that
(17:37):
usually gets them right back onactor like, nah, no, no, I do have an answer.
I do have an answer.
It's like, okay, so then why are you worried about my private parts then if you have an answer, that's crazy.
Yeah, you could just uh you could just respond and then
we would like you could be having this conversation
with a talking frog and it wouldn't change anything.
(17:59):
Now, I do want to preface this by saying that you all do that,
but nobody feels should feel like they should have to do that, right?
Like we I still want to make sure that people understand that
if that if somebody is dehumanizing you in any way,
feel free to point it out and um issue a
(18:20):
correction. um we just I know
all four of us we happen to be like what I call like debate mercenaries
and all of that stuff is is uh useless
uh to us as far as with the with the dialectic.
That that's also true, but I do want to point out that
it's also that strategy of like putting you in that box.
(18:44):
Like it's just a different way of doing it.
And it's a way of getting you to engage with, no, I'm
not in that box kind of thing where they just like
if they if someone called me a man and we ended the debate
there, I would never debate anyone.
I would never debate anyone, ever.
I would never get across any information, ever.
And if you stop, I'm not saying that you have to.
(19:07):
What I'm saying is, is that debating in it's
unfortunate that it does this, but debating calls for a thick skin.
It calls for you to be made of iron.
It calls for you to be like that person who that shit can just bounce off of you.
And if you're not that person, honestly, you probably
shouldn't be debating because they're not going to stop being bigots.
(19:28):
And you're not debating them to change their minds.
You're debating them to educate your audience.
The entire point of debate is education.
And if you're not there to educate your audience and you're
just there to embarrass bigots, even if that's your debate
strategy to embarrass bigots or whatever, that's cool.
But if you're just there to be like, yeah, this person's
(19:51):
a transphob or this person's a racist, they already know.
They're doing this for plausible deniability.
They're not doing this because they actually
think that what they're saying isn't race.
I mean, sometimes they are, but for the most part, they're not doing
this because they don't think that what they're saying isn't actually racist.
(20:11):
They know they hate black people.
They just want plausible deniability to hating black people.
They know they hate trans people.
They just want plausible deniability. to to say, no, I don't hate trans people.
I just feel like they're dangerous in bathrooms.
And then when you ask them for that's why when you ask them
for the evidence and being like, okay, what's the evidence of trans people are dangerous in bathrooms?
(20:34):
Well, you're a man.
It's like, okay, well, there you go.
Like that's it.
You just wanted me to engage with the fact
that like you think that I'm a man and
you only said you think that I'm dangerous in bathrooms for plausible deniability.
Um, I want to switch it over to like,
(20:58):
and I'm going to I'm going to structure this this way, uh intersectionality, right?
So like, I'm Afro Latino, I'm a black
man, uh solid, you're black, but not Latino, right?
And then we've got Adorno, you black woman, showing your trans black women.
We
Did you just find out?
Solid just found out that he's not Latino.
(21:20):
Like, no, because I haven't seen
you dance Madenga, but like, it maybe maybe that's what it is.
You got some some uh Spanish rhythm and you think.
I think that
uh if we were to Bachat next
to each other, we would give each other a run for our money.
A, we have have to okay, that's a challenge.
(21:44):
I see that as a challenge directly to my Dominicaness.
And my Dominicaness is saying that
my plantains are tastier than your plantains.
Well, that's absolutely true.
I'm just letting you know that that's that's a thing.
um But like, so when when I'm layering it down the line, right?
(22:08):
For me, what I'm what I'll notice is people play the game of invalidation.
Like when it is
my license to talk about black stuff, they will call me white.
When it is my license to talk about like when
(22:28):
I say white stuff, I mean what people consider intellectual
stuff, then they treat me like I'm black, right?
For solid.
I'm going to pass the ball to you and we're going to just layer the intersectionality
on top of that and then we'll just go around and just
tell me what the what the trick is for the marginalization
(22:52):
there. uh yeah.
So when it's time for me to
uh do the same thing,
yes, also as well, right?
Like I I have the same experiences, right as a since had
uh black man, you know what I mean?
(23:13):
um
I think I don't
have that layer of xenophobia that you probably get
right?
um and I definitely benefit from patriarchy, right?
um we just discussed that at the beginning of the
(23:33):
episode where like literally I can repeat the same thing
that a adorn said and somebody would be like man solid,
you know, it was and then you know what they'll you know what they'll say?
Well, he said it different.
He said it in a way that it was easier
for me to dig I didn't say I know I was so disrespectful
(23:54):
it was more palatable.
I was I was so disrespectful, but
but for whatever reason, we know the reason because of misogyny and misogen Noir,
I just get that pass, right?
You know how many times I've had that conversation and said,
they'll say like I was nicer about it. and I'm like, you didn't notice I called you an
(24:18):
idiot 11 times when I was explaining it times.
I called you a moron.
I literally said you don't know what.
But okay, Dorna, you I hope you trip over your grandmother's headstone.
Like you know type types and they go like he is so palatable.
He said it in such a calm way so polite
(24:39):
crazy Adora, your turn.
Oh yeah, so um I'm black, right So
there's the the aspect of um uh well, black people
are less educated, you know, fatherless homes.
Then they'll move on to, well, I just before this live I was in alive with Spencer.
You guys know Spencer.
(24:59):
And he's like, well, you're in Jamaican.
You you don't really know what oppression is like over there.
I'm like, you know there was slavery in Jamaica, too, right?
Um And then, um, whenever I point out,
for example, that uh black women's accomplishments in education,
um, or, um, or that we're the fastest growing
demographic of entrepreneurs in the United States, they'll say, well,
um, you're just getting uh degrees and things like,
(25:22):
you know, um, like psychology.
What do you really do with that?
Or you're just opening up beauty supply stores.
Who cares about those businesses?
So
all accomplishments out the window.
Right?
So yeah, different layers.
Yeah, ah, the accomplishment thing is is is nuts.
Sorry, Sean, go ahead.
No, you're fine.
(25:43):
You're fine.
I was going to say, like, I think we're probably going to get on this at
one point in time, but the goalost movement is just another
strategy because like they'll say something.
Like they'll be like, why don't you just go to college and get a degree?
And you'll be like, I have a degree and they'll be like, what is it in?
Wom's studies?
So now a degree is not enough?
Like it was your that was your hurdle.
(26:04):
I jumped over it.
Like. it's physical pal movement
and it's like, no, it's not in women's studies.
It's actually in physics.
Soft physics.
Yeah, I I see that that that's something
else. um I also see that in um,
(26:24):
and I'm going to this is another one to both of you.
You each approach uh your debates with a different degree of data, right?
And so somebody will say, I
know Sean, you talk a lot about socialism and communism and adorning
you talk a lot about like, uh the history of race and racism and
somebody will say, show me this.
(26:47):
And then here comes a list of data points.
Yeah, but does it
like, does it really like you didn't just say no, does it really happen though?
And well, address this one
and the response is, nuh-uh, it's just some version of nah-uh, right?
Yeah, um a
(27:09):
staff that I like to use because because they always talk about fatherless
homes or um black people being criminals or lack of education.
A that I love to use is that in 2020 the proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences
did a study that shows that black newborns are three
times more likely to to die, usually I stay in
alive, to to die in the hospital,
(27:32):
when they're cared for by a white doctor than a black doctor.
And immediately they'll be like, well, well, black babies are
usually underweight or or they're um, you know, they have these health issues because the mother.
And I'm like, well, if it was because of that, then
they would still be dying under the black doctors as well.
Like immediately there they're trying to find reasons to discredit what you're saying.
(27:53):
Yeah, all the time.
Yeah, they
do that a lot, like a lot a lot.
And I'm just like whenever I ask for a symmetry breaker
uh for something like that doesn't
make sense for anything other than race, where I'm just like, hey,
(28:13):
show me the reason as to why like adorn said. show me the reason that's
why black babies are three times more likely to die under white doctors and they'll say that.
They'll be like, oh, well, black women have problems and black babies have problems.
And I'm like, so you mean to tell me there shouldn't be any white doctors?
because black doctors are just better.
And then they're just like, no, no, no.
(28:33):
And I'm just like, what do you want from me?
I don't know what to tell you.
Like I asked you to tell me why, like babies
are dying under white doctors more than black doctors.
And what you gave me was that black doctors
know how to deal with these complications better.
You didn't say that out loud, but that's what,
you know, what you had said would imply.
(28:57):
that's the reason I use that study.
I started out saying that they usually have all these other objections.
So the reason I use these studies because I'm like, well, what did the newborns do?
What did they commit?
use there are plenty of stats I have, but if I
use something that has to do with the system, they' people they'll something.
I use using a babies't any liqu stores lately.
(29:22):
So, yeah, and still, well, they're spreading it.
Well, to be fair, Dave Chappelle did see a baby on the street corner.
Sulling crack. selling crack. selling.
You know what I like to do, but I like to call out the core
racism that they're doing, right?
For example, when I bring up the maternal mortality rate.
(29:45):
right response that I'll get is, well, uh black women are more
likely to have diabetes and be overweight.
And then I like to just go, oh, so you're calling black women fat.
That's so race. racist that's so fucking racist.
and then I watch them squirm and I laugh.
No, but solid what I like that you do as well is usually they'll they'll
(30:07):
say that and you'll be like, but why are they?
Like trying to go to take them
still leads.
Like you like the approach
that you take with like the nature versus nurture.
Yeah, yeah.
I like when Solid hits the hits like the whisper talk.
(30:30):
and he's like, but why?
And then he then they say something he's
like, okay, but why?
That shit.
Yeah, that should hit.
That that's on point.
Um, all right.
So, uh, a fun part is,
since we're talking about a lot of the uh the racists that we talked to
(30:54):
uh racists, homophobes, etc., you
you uh Sean, you and I joke about this a lot.
It's like, like we can make certain
like we can say certain things.
But when when you're a homophobe, right, your your
one job, when you're when you're trying to insult me one job.
(31:16):
And this is, look, in case there are any racists or homophobes
out there, transphobes, etc.,
when you are doing whatever you're doing,
the one job you have is not to say no weird stuff.
Don't say no weird shit in my direction and
not say cause look we all know don't say that and not say pause.
(31:37):
Don't say that and not say no ditty.
Don't say that and just like like I I
had a a reel on Instagram that somebody responded
to and they said down the throat like
two or three times in their reply.
And I'm like,
bro, you had you can't be a homophobe.
Like they did all the homophobia in their previous thing and then they're saying all the weird shit.
(32:04):
I like highlighting that because it's like this is what's on your mind.
This is literally like you could have said anything else and this is what you chose to say.
So, um, yeah, let's do a round table about that.
Why why I I say I
say they're all closeted and they should live their truth.
Do y'all agree with that?
(32:25):
But they're they're like it's a bunch of closeted dudes?
I don't I will say I don't want to add to the idea
of like it's uh because there's a stereotype of marginalized people doing it to themselves
but I I do got to say these it's
like dick for real like they don't they don't like they don't like kooch.
(32:48):
I'm telling you, I'm telling you.
And it goes to show because like with the massagey, you're laughing, but I'm so serious.
Like with the misogyny, think about like when a man dates
a man who he's trying to impress or something,
when a man dates a woman who he's trying to impress.
right?
Like think about like what he does in order to
impress his friends versus what he will do in order to impress his girlfriend.
(33:14):
Like niggas will literally say like, oh, no, no, I can't do that.
What would the boys think?
And it's like, what will the boys think?
Nigga, we're talking about having sex.
Like what are you talking?
What would the boys think?
Like why why are they having any say at all?
And it goes into the debate realms, I believe,
because like you said, Jeff, your one job is that if you're
(33:36):
a homophobe, the only thing that you need to do is not be a faggot.
and the first thing that they do is just come out with
some faggot shit and I'd be like, bro, like I'm gay, so I could say that.
I could say I like dick.
I could say I like pussy.
I could say I like whatever, right, but you come up here
and you just say wild stuff we had
(33:58):
a dude it on solid life one time was it on solid's
live I believe and it was like all you had to do was
not say some wild shit and the first thing this nigger says is bussy.
and he said the whole term too he said boy pussy he didn't
even say bussy and I was like bro you have one job you have one job.
(34:19):
What are you talking about?
I think the whole sentence was is anybody looking for?
It was too.
It very was.
And I was like is anybody looking for this no Paul, any cat talking?
No pause he didn't say is anybody looking for bussy pause?
nothing, zero things and I was just like
(34:41):
listen, listen, if you're if you're a homophob,
the only thing you have to do is not say something gay.
If you're a transphobe, the only thing that you have to do is not hit my DMs.
The like these are the only things that you have to do and they fail
miserably, like, absolutely miserably.
(35:01):
And it's crazy to me because it goes into
that misogyny taught that misogyny point we talked about before,
because men, when I say these niggas like dick for real, what
I really mean is that men don't date women because
they like women, men date women because
they want to impress other men.
(35:21):
Men say things to women and like
try and get certain women and even get married to
a certain extent because they want to impress other men's like, oh, that's what you got.
That's what you booked.
And that goes into the debate styles.
Whenever they say something or do something, when they try and put you in
that box, they really just expose themselves in the things that they think about.
(35:45):
Like on my everyday basis, I don't really think like I'm I'm a trans woman.
I don't really think about gay shit when I'm out at the mall.
I don't really think about like what it is.
I mean, unless I got to go to the bathroom, then I have to think like, which bathroom should I go into or whatever?
But like, I really don't think about like gay stuff when I'm out.
(36:08):
I just think about regular shit.
I'm out with my friends.
I want to know what makeup I'm going to buy, what clothes I want to buy, et cetera, et cetera.
And it just goes to show that like on their everyday
basis, when they walk into a mall or something, they're just like,
how much bussy is in the boys room today?
And that's just like crazy to me because I'm just like, I would never say anything like that.
(36:29):
Like we make actual points we were talking about it.
We make actual points and we bring up points of data solid.
solid is losing his mind.
We bring up action, but I'm so serious, though.
We bring up actual data points and we think about
the things that actually affect us on a daily basis and
(36:49):
we bring up uh like, oh, this is how racism is faced.
This is how this is
uh transphobia affects these people.
This is like the data behind this thing or whatever else it may be that we're talking about.
And it goes to show they're not thinking about that.
They they didn't come up to sol it.
(37:10):
it's he's done.
He's so boy's.
He's hooked, but I'm so am I wrong though like am I wrong?
Like we're we're sitting here and we think about data points.
For for the most part, when I go out,
the thing that I'm thinking about most of the time is don't say something about communism.
Don't say something about socialism.
(37:32):
Don't talk about how capitalism sucks.
Don't talk about this.
Don't talk about that.
Don't talk about this oppression, whatever, whatever, just be a normal
person with your friends and don't be like, you know why that soda costs $29.
like the
closest overlap thing that I I'll like, and this is a
(37:52):
thought I had recently is, is it a flex
to just make egg salad for no reason?
Like, is that is is that too much?
You know, it's silly things like that because, you know, everybody's
thinking about the price of eggs and I'm just like, I
got an A pack and I'm just going to make egg salad egg
(38:13):
And just hold it.
Is that a flex or is that like me being me being me being dumb, right?
I was like salad.
Where's he going with this?
I thought about it immediately because Trump
is supposed to make eggs so cheap everybody complaining,
I'm like I didn't I didn't really notice too much, but
(38:36):
again, it's because like when I'm doing my day
to day, I'll notice the things that affect, even if
something doesn't affect me, I'll notice it if it affects somebody else.
And it will be something that I'll pay attention to and I'll talk about it.
But if it's something that has nothing to do with anything, like what
like if I if I cross somebody in in the street, I
(38:58):
don't think, hey, which bathroom are you going to use?
Exactly.
Exactly.
That is not something you think about on a regular basis.
And it goes to show like the things that they bring up, like
I get that we're on debate talk, right?
And I get if we're talking about transphobia, you're going to bring up trans people.
But the stuff I feel is though, and correct me if I'm wrong,
(39:20):
I feel like the stuff that they bring up just most of
the time isn't very relevant.
I mean, we did just see is it Lauren Bart just
a few days ago had to apologize because she saw someone go into the ladies room
uh that she thought was a trans person.
(39:40):
So she went and got security and said, um there's a guy
in the in the ladies bathroom and it turned out to be a assistant a woman.
Yeah, yeah.
But also in on on the topic of repressed feelings and whether
like people are on like the DL or, you know, what that that topic.
I think for women, um
like let's say uh a guy goes down on a girl, right?
(40:05):
A girl can also go down on a girl, right?
So although there's the difference in who you love, a lot of the actions are still going to be similar.
Whereas for men,
um, regardless of whether you are with a man or a woman, there
are certain things that they won't do.
So, for example, like a finger or something like that going somewhere.
So even when they're with their woman, they won't do that.
(40:26):
So there there there's a curiosity that's there because
it's something that everyone says feels good, but I'm not going to try regardless of who I'm with, whereas with a woman,
regardless of whether it's a guy that's going down on me or like
there's so many things that women are still willing to do just with their partner or whichever
sex or gender that their partner is.
Whereas men, despite the gender or sex that their partner,
(40:47):
are willing to try because they think it might look that a certain way.
And this is that's also a thing too, too.
Because like dudes will tell me, like when I was socialized
as a man, dudes would tell me, like, I
would say like, oh, yeah, you know, we did I
went out, I hooked up with a girl, whatever, whatever, or sometimes,
you know, if I was comfortable, I'd tell them, you know, I went out, hooked up with a dude or whatever, blah, blah, blah.
(41:12):
But most of the time when I tell them I hooked up with a girl,
they'll say something and be like like when I tell they'll be like, oh, what's the details?
And I won't go into too many details.
But like you said, going down, they'll be like, oh, no, I can't go down or no girl.
What would a niggas think?
What would the boys think?
And I'm like, well, why are the boys thinking about you
going down on a That doesn't make any sense.
(41:33):
Like again, we're talking about you literally talking about
having sex with a woman and you're worried about what other men think.
That doesn't
I mean, so does that feed the curiosity then?
Like, because I remember Wendy Williams used to say that all the time, like, you
know, a finger, which is automatic orgasm,
(41:53):
and guys are like, nope, not going to try it.
And I think that there's that curiosity then of something that they think feels good, but are never going to try.
Good.
And they're never going to try it because other
men may think a certain way of them.
And I'm just like, if you're with a woman, if you if you call
yourself a heterosexual man and you're straight and you're with a
(42:16):
woman and she wants to do something like with you,
you if you don't feel comfortable, you don't feel comfortable.
That's that's a whole different thing.
But you don't feel comfortable because you're worried about what
that nigga at the barbershop will think?
You don't want to be perceived as homosexual.
Exactly.
I'm I'm gonna give just a little bit
(42:36):
of pushback and I'm going to cite a philosopher
on this one and I'll tell you who it is afterward.
Have you considered milk milk lemonade
round the corner fudges made?
That's.
That's deep.
(42:56):
But by the philosopher'sy in the fourth grade?
100% percent 100%.
But listen, I would say to to retort to Katie
um is that, uh I
want to say this in in terms that would be appropriate.
around the corner fudge is actually made, but dudes
(43:17):
will do other things with other peoples around the corner.
So, like if you're worried about
fudge, then why why are you
asking about the other
the other uh I don't even know what
else to say whole or if it's
(43:42):
or if it's wait, you never you never heard that growing up?
I never lemonade the
cornerclecle dotcle dot
s the other no.s that's
(44:07):
the diarrhea, you
Here's what I know. all right here.
I'm use as an example.
Solid, you and I talk on the phone all the time.
Accurate.
Right.
Very accurate.
Pause, nigga.
(44:28):
no no pause.
No pause.
Yes, yes, Diddy.
So but at no point is solid ever going to judge
anything that I do in my
bedroom because we' I'm not like,
(44:49):
hey, like you because you were saying, hey,
they don't do this this thing, even though it feels good because what will
the boys think, the boys will only know if boss, what the fuck you talking about?
Exactly.
Like why are you going back to your boys and being like, hey, and then we did this?
And even if then lie, nigga, like what what the fuck?
(45:10):
Don't tell the like why are you telling them that?
Why is that part of the conversation?
I don't understand I don't understand that if I don't
ever asked you anything about your love life.
Nobody need to know.
There's people I know on this planet for over 30 years
(45:30):
and we talked and never wasn't hey, when you when you was
with your girl yesterday, was y'all like, did you go downstairs like what?
Yeah.
I quit forever.
I'm clipping the hell out of that.
(45:55):
But the fact that it's like yo, he think about thumbs right now.
Oh my God.
Oh, FaceTime is uh firing shots. um
How can people avoid like if
let's say somebody's listening to this and they're like, I want to be better.
(46:17):
how can people avoid silencing or erasing
voices of specific specifically black women women of color.
So I think um I don't think that it's wrong
(46:39):
to have implicit bias. because I think that's something we can't control.
Our brains are our brains are sponges, something we can't control.
However, recognizing that we have implicit bias
and then being cognizant of your actions and like actually
educating yourself on it,
allows you then to realize that you're not in someone else's shoes, right?
(47:01):
And that even if you disagree with their perspective, it's
likely because you're not seeing it from their perspective
because you're not in that in in that demographic and you have some biases that perhaps you have not dealt with yet.
So I think people just educating themselves on the fact that they
have biases, what these biases might be, and then
even when they disagree realizing, I'm just not seeing
(47:22):
it from that point of view, potentially because of where I'm coming from
as opposed to where that person come from, that would help not silence.
Like that person is saying something I don't agree with, I'm not going to silence them
because they clearly are seeing it from a different viewpoint that I don't have.
People just realize that.
I think that, um I think
(47:43):
one of the bigger things is awareness, like you
being aware of like who you who you are and where you're coming from.
Like I'm constantly aware of like
who I am, where I came from.
um and I try and be as aware as the privileges as I possibly can.
I think it's possible to know all the privileges that you
(48:04):
like possess over a person because someone will come through and
you'll be like, god damn, I didn't even know that was a thing.
And you realize you don't have that
and in like a capitalistic society, especially that
that is for them a disadvantage.
So that's a privilege that you have.
But I do try and be aware, at least for me,
(48:25):
all of the things that not only could affect
me as a trans woman and oppress me, but all of the things
like all of the privileges that I face
societalise before I came out as trance.
Because so being socialized as a man, even
though a black man, I still benefited from
(48:48):
patriarchal violence towards women.
and I still benefited from uh the
things that like when men uh do all of these
things that uh micro aggressions and whatever towards
women, um I don't know if we call them micro aggressions, but I'm going to call them that anyway.
uh micro aggressions towards women, um I
(49:08):
still benefited from that societalise.
So when people heard me talk, they took me
seriously more than they took, who maybe a
friend that's a one of my friends that's a girl,
um, or a sister girl, what I mean. um,
and to go about understanding that as as
(49:29):
a when I was socialized as a man, as a black
man, my mother told me at one point in time,
kind of she sat me down and she was like, your your
stepfather don't know this because that nigga's light skin, but I need you to know
this. um as a dark skinned
black man, this is what she told me as a dark skinned black man everywhere you go,
(49:50):
people will see you.
They'll pretend like they don't.
They'll pretend like they don't hear you, but they'll just that
that's just them pretending they see you and to
them you are a threat
you are nothing but a threat, you will
never be anything but a threat.
And she was saying that on
(50:13):
the basis of race and the uh hyperf fixation
of society on black men to be violent and
or at least think that black men are violent.
But it goes into what I was thinking every
time I stepped on the subway, every time I stepped in an office building,
every time I went into the mall, every time I stepped into any store,
any any place at school, wherever, is that
(50:37):
I realized everyone notices me, not
in like a main character kind of way, more like in a villain kind of way.
Everyone sees me here.
Everyone's afraid of me.
Everyone knows like, or at least they think
that I am like super capable of like hyper violence.
And the reason as to why it doesn't really matter.
(51:00):
The whole point is is that they notice me.
And I think noticing ourselves on that
scale with privilege is something that
I I don't know if we need to sit down with each other and tell each other,
like, hey, when you walk into a room, you benefit
from massive amounts of privileges, especially,
(51:20):
uh well, like what I've been noticing lately ever since the election.
Trump ain't been in office for a fucking pay period,
and I have to constantly tell black American men,
hey, nigga, you're not the most oppressed people in the world like
you need to walk into a room and realize that when
(51:41):
you're calling someone an immigrant, that's white supremacy.
You need to realize that even though our
ancestors were brought here, like unwillingly and
forced to labor and all that other shit, there were people who
were taken to other places forced to work and
do, you know, the same thing that our ancestors did.
(52:04):
and America is making sure that them niggas don't have running water.
And you're sitting here telling them that they shouldn't
come here because you've accepted the idea of
uh like immigrants are ruining your life
rather than the racism is ruining your life.
You need to sit the fuck down and realize that privilege.
(52:27):
And I think the same thing goes with black women,
where or at least black men with black women, especially, um
and they go, uh, a black women, because I've heard this a lot lately where
black men will say things like black women are upholding white
supremacy because feminism is white supremacy.
And it's a way to do things like they say emitilling
(52:50):
a black man and say, oh, these false allegations
against black men are historically ruining black men's lives and all of this other stuff.
And they and I'm just like, nigga, you need to sit down and realize that
the person who's sang this about you is facing
that same kind of discrimination.
like, you don't hear them talk about angry black women.
(53:11):
You don't think that they think black women are capable of
violence or believe that black women are capable
of some sort of extreme violence due to stereotypes.
Like, you're just silencing black women because
you've accepted the white supremacist thought process.
I'm going shut up.
I'm yapping.
But
(53:31):
that's, I think us noticing who
we are and the benefits that we have in society
is something that we need to kind of get people to realize.
I don't know how to say that.
Yeah, I'm glad you actually brought up colorism, too,
like when we spoke about the difference between a light skinned man, the experiences a light skinned man versus a dark skinned man.
(53:56):
But even when we're talking about women in general, like when we did the intersectionality portion of this,
um there was the that extra additional
layer of being a dark skinned woman, right?
And I think that if we're talking about voices
being discounted, we see a lot of that happening too.
We see a lot of those discussions happening on, um
(54:17):
on TikTok where we'll have
a discussion about colorism and a lightskinned person will be like, well, I got called up a banana, right?
And it's like, and it's it's the same thing and the complete
disregard of the experiences of darksinned black women.
So like there are studies that show, for example,
that we know that um like
(54:38):
American psychological association, do we et cetera speak about black
children being 3.6 times more likely to be suspended from
school for the same behaviors as white children?
But black dark skinned black
black children are actually three times more likely than light-sinned
black children to be suspended from school.
And even more specific to black women, uh darkskinned
(54:59):
black women are five times more likely to be incarcerated
in their lifetime than a lightsinned black woman.
And so there there's layers to this shit.
Like there's layers that people don't realize it.
So I'm hearing a lot of awareness.
Sorry, go ahead, Sean.
No, no, no.
I was all I was going to say was I was going to kind of piggyback
off a Dorna, because I think that like, uh, the hypersexualization
(55:23):
of black men, like the stereotypes that black men go through, I think that does fall into
lighter skinned black men, but I think lightsinned
black men have a whole different set of stereotypes that
need to be addressed as well because the reason why
my mother told me that, um was like, uh when
I was socialized as a man, is she was like, your father doesn't
(55:45):
realize this because he's lightsinned and she went into it and she said, because
people don't believe that light skinned men like lightsinned
black men are hyper violent, they believe that lightskinned black men
are hyper emotional and like,
say like emotional things and do like hyper things,
like with their emotions, like they believe that like lightsinned
(56:08):
black men will fuck your wife, but they don't
believe that like lightskinned black men are
lightskinned black men are necessarily
like fetishized uh the way that like I would
have been fetishized or whatever else it might be. uh they
just, you know, pretty boys type shit. um
(56:29):
Right.
But no, and and that that
was the whole thing, too, because it was instead of it being,
for me, the way that she described it is that people look
at light skinned black men and they go, oh, I got to watch
out around him because he's going to make my
wife emotionally cheat on me whereas me being
(56:51):
socialized as a as a dark skinned black man is that I
need to watch out for him because he's going to rape my wife.
And it's like too totally different things
where, uh, yeah.
That's true.
um So I'm
(57:12):
going to segue here to talk about
think proletariat, um,
because it is my brother's
line of merch, um and I want to
say, uh as we close out that you can go to 4tp
byolid.com uh solid
(57:34):
uh seems that have gone off camera, but he's
back and get one of the uh pink proletariat,
uh hoodies, cardigans. uh, you want to talk about that solid?
Yeah, my absolute favorite is this crude neck
sweater, okay that's got the hybrid logo.
(57:55):
It's got the end of a species. um meteor
or is it a meteor or a cobbit?
It's whatever will get rid of us quicker.
Okay.
All right.
The the it's abstract for a reason the fla ball of space junk
um and and the
(58:16):
rhino it's just I think it's super cool.
I think it's uh it's I'm going to get one.
It's going to be white.
It's giving a little bit of
blanch from golden Girls with their background.
oh you know what?
Well that's a separate thing, but yes.
(58:37):
All the yes on that. uh I love
that. um I'll I'll say he probably paired
with the prolontariat under armor hoodie
that has both of our logos on it that I'm just going to point out right here.
But yeah, the entire line is fire. um
and so if you want to support
(58:59):
either uh the end of a species podcast or
uh the 4TP uh movement, right?
This is how you do it.
Go to the merch store, get some merch.
It allows us to continue doing these broadcasts and bring on these awesome guests and
get all this information to you.
(59:20):
Um, I am
going to say the following, I am Jeff from end of a species.
You will see, uh, if you don't know my socials ready, they're going to be in the description
uh super solid, same for you.
Adorna and Sean are going to put all of your information in the description.
Is there anything you guys want to share before we sign out?
(59:43):
I want to thank you for having us on appreciate it.
Oh, it was a lot of fun.
Yeah, I want I want to thank you for having me on.
I appreciate it.
Um
The only thing that I would say is that uh for
you, Jeff, this is for you. um, comets are
bigger than meteors.
So it would probably
(01:00:04):
be a comment for you.
I'm all about it all about it. um
It also goes with the efforts that you may have heard that
are still ongoing to get all the hydrogen out of the sun.
um So with that, like share,
subscribe, do all the things, joined the respective discords and I'll see you guys next time.
Hey guys.
Hey.
I wanted to know if you guys have seen this.
I was cruising the internet and I
saw this clip with Jasmine Crockett. um I wanted to know if you guys have seen this.
We got there because I I tried to make
it clear how many civil rights it it doesn't
(00:30):
just fall down to one conversation, but I can see
that somebody's campaignign coffers really are struggling
right now. so she gonna keep saying trans trans trans
so that people will feel threatened. and child listen,
I I I want you to I have no whether or not call me a child.
I am no child.
I't even find out which of those fem
(00:52):
I have ceilings in and I' reclaiming my
phone. will not do the experiment.
I am claiming my time. you wanna take it outside.man
the committee is not in order order order order.
Have you have y'all seen that?
No, I' I didn't see that.
That's
(01:14):
on the Congress floor. just we could take it outside.
Catch me outside is actually insane.
Catch me outside is nuts.
Solid muted.
Is he filtering out his laughter.
(01:37):
No, you're good.
You' me outside along with Adora.
it was the it was the hit dog hollering,
you know, like oh, you not your s saying child because I don't understand AAV E at all.
But you're you're calling me a child.
(01:57):
I'm not a child.
I but the the thing is like even
if even if she did, like even
if she's the your even if she said you're a child, like I thought they had, you know,
the court, like you say your thing and then I'll say my thing and I don't have to like do an outbur.
It's not even like, like if you didn't say something,
(02:20):
like your constituents are going to be like, why ain't you say something?
You know what I mean?
Like
there's no, there
isn't a consequence to just being civil and hey, what did you mean by that?
I didn't mean that you were a child.
It's an expression, you know,
Instead, you that looked that little a while, you know what I mean?
(02:44):
I was saying I'm not a child and then immediately acting childish.
Yeah, I mean, I was
going to like leave it to a white person to not understand AAVE
and then cause a scene because of AAV.
Like it's to me, that just seems like
(03:05):
there's there's so many layers here because like, um
for white people, it's like it
for when white people grow up, they tend to I at least I
I think and this is white people that I've been around and they tend to understand AVE more.
So even saying like I'm not a child, but you
have a childlike understanding of AAVE.
(03:28):
It's just
chef's kiss.
Well, I want to say welcome
to the podcast end of a species. um We are.
We are in fact, and of course, I'm Jeff from end of a species.
I'm here with Adornna, Sean and super solid.
Everybody say hello.
(03:49):
Hello.
And um, you know, the audience I should
know us all because you guys were we we run in
a in a group we run in a wild path, but um but
this is mostly going to be y''s show because it's,
you know, happy Black History month.
But also,
(04:09):
today's show is about um specifically
the voices of black women and why people seem
to um silence them,
right?
Um, it's a thing that we see all the time,
whether it's in different civil rights movements, whether it's
in, uh, just normal conversation, whereas
(04:31):
soon like you'll see somebody say something, and as soon as a black
woman black woman interjects,
you hear interruptions or accusations of things.
And so I think it's important for us to um unpack
that and and understand why it happens and what we can do to like address it.
(04:52):
um so so yeah, I want to
get started with just an overall impression from
you guys about um what your
experience is with this and
just a general overview of that.
Yeah, I'll have been. um I see it on
(05:13):
a regular basis. um not only in my professional life, but even
specifically on uh TikTok and like theait talk, where
um, yes, it'll everything will be going smoothly.
And even when speaking um civilly,
etiquette decorum, even when speaking in a way that does not
uh does not show any type of assertiveness
(05:35):
or aggressiveness or hostility immediately met with
uh being disregarded, uh people immediately
assuming that you arenn't correct, people being hostile with me, um people cutting me off. um
yeah, definitely and the assumption, even
when I'm speaking calmly, that I'm not speaking calmly.
(05:58):
It's all the time.
Yeah.
How about you, Sean?
Yeah, so, uh, the
disregarding goes, uh I mean, it depends on,
well, not necessarily, but like I tend to see like different
types of people do different types of things.
Like white women will disregard me in a
(06:19):
different way that like black men will disregard me.
uh, but it's still, you know, disregard in either
way. um the point uh
that like we're talking about here where I guess it's
more so trying to silence black women's voices.
when I go into a place, um a
(06:39):
lot of them try and discount what I'm saying just because I'm trans.
And so they'll say something like, oh, I don't want to listen to you.
You think you're a girl anyway.
And then oftentimes with people like black men, they'll just be like
y'all just going to let this bitch talk.
And I'm just like, why'd you call me a bitch?
If you think I'm a man, why'd you call me a bitch?
(07:01):
I'm just like that's just more
silencing of black women's voices because it's putting you,
me and super solid like this uh YouTube creator called Innuendo Studios.
and he talks about putting people in boxes because if
I can fit you in this box, I don't have to listen to anything you
have to say and they do that with women all the time.
(07:23):
And with black women, I've seen it with adorna.
I've seen it with Athena.
I've seen it with whoever
a black woman you can think of on our side of TikTok.
I haven't even seen it white women where they just start saying like,
oh, you're just a woman or you're just a bitch or you're
just a liberal or you're just whatever to put us in
(07:43):
this box so that they can just disregard everything that we have to say because
if if I can convince people that you're a liberal and they
don't like liberals, I can convince them not to listen to
your argument and then I don't have to rebut
Solid you
(08:03):
and I, I think, have a a different experience from the it almost
seems weird to say like from the outside looking in, right?
But um
I I'll say for me, I
oftentimes see that like, especially with you, Adora and Sean, you guys will make a point
(08:24):
and somebody will skip right over it and then I
will say the same thing and the person
will be will directly address what I said as
if y' didn't say it, and then I have to say like, wait, wait.
you know you're answering what Adorna said.
You know you're actually addressing what Sean said.
You're not talking to me and it
(08:45):
doesn't even register, right?
Um, so first superar,
I want to know if you if you see the same thing and then I want to get everybody else to weigh in on that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um There are times like what I will notice
is that we share arguments a lot, right?
Um
(09:07):
And so what will happen is a lot of times the
men will be credited with using the arguments that the women
created or or developed, right?
um and then they'll go, oh, that's a solid argument.
No, it's not.
That's an ador that's an adora argument.
oh, that's a that's a a Jeff argument.
No, that's not that's a shan argument, right?
(09:29):
And it's like you almost have to
go out of your way, not almost.
You definitely have to go out of your way to say hey, no,
that's not my argument.
You know what I mean?
uh, to give shoutouts, right?
I'll say I'm about to do an adorner, right?
B
before I before I start the argument, right?
(09:55):
um, yeah.
I think that's a the point there, I think is I
don't know why people do um
be erasure, like in in in real time.
I don't know if it's a conscious thing that they're doing.
I don't think no, if it's a a subconscious bias.
(10:16):
Um, I suspect it's both that both
are being done at the same time.
and further, the reaction when you point it out.
So when you point out to somebody, this is what you're doing, and instead
of saying, hey, I'm oh, I didn't realize I'm sorry the negative like
(10:36):
what do you call me a a jackass or something like not
not focusing on the hey, you just did what you did.
No, we have to like counterattack and
uh make ourselves the center of the tension and make ourselves the victim.
And so for to me, it's I don't
want to use the word fascinating, but I'm gonna. uh it's it is
(10:58):
a fascinating thing to see in real time. uh
and I don't know.
It it almost highlights the weakness of people
who run into these conversations without first understanding
uh systems of oppression, marginalization,
intersectionity, et cetera, et cetera, and then want to wait weigh in because that's a lot of the stuff that we talk about, right?
(11:22):
Yeah, I try really hard to, um,
just about never speak, uh, do anecdotals, right?
I try really hard to read up on what I talk about.
I'm looking at reputable sources.
I'm giving stats, et cetera.
And I feel as though I'm just about always
met with a default assumption that I don't know what I'm talking about.
(11:43):
Likeide off the bat, despite any information
that I've given, and despite, you know, it
I'm my stating the sources, it's it's like,
well, obviously my intuition is better, like meaning the person that I'm speaking to.
Their intuition is better because, well, what could you really know?
That's how it feels at least, right?
And then we're we're always gasol lit into thinking
(12:05):
or into what the reasons might be, right?
And so, um I think that it's
obviously a cross between misogyny and I think racisms, we have misogy are
happening where um not only are women considered
less intelligent, but then on top of that, you're a black woman, so what do you really know, right?
So
I tend to,
(12:27):
when people are talking and we're making like I do debates, we do debates.
And whenever I make a point, I tend to find that people
um the same thing.
I mean I've met with a lot of anecdotes and I met with people saying,
I don't know what I'm talking about, but I think for the most part
for me, what I tend to see is people saying things like
(12:49):
you essentially, you think too much.
Like they say like, you you're thinking too hard about this.
You're thinking too much about this.
It's not that serious.
It's just XYZ.
And especially when it comes to when we debate about racism.
They go, you're thinking too much about this thing and it's not really all of this.
It's it's everybody that's under the boot
(13:11):
and all of this other stuff.
And I'm just like, nah, nah, it's not.
Because they just, you know, they want to put us in that box and
that, and for at least racism, that box is like,
oh, this person has a victim mentality.
I know we've all heard that before.
And it's like if you can get people to think like, oh,
this person just thinks that no matter what happens, they're going to be oppressed.
(13:34):
Like they could get a job and they'll be like, I'm oppressed by getting this job.
Like that's what they really think like white supremacists really think we'd be thinking
and they'll just be like you're thinking too much.
I think in addition to that so
already people feel as though we're in a post-racial society, but in addition to that when
(13:56):
when you try to speak about like controlled studies stating that there's
still gender, for example, like a gender wage gap.
People don't believe that these inequalities exist while
at the same time having these subconscious perceptions of these demographics.
So, yeah, it's it's hard to get around.
One thing I notice, and this is just like a stylistic debate thing.
(14:17):
And and I've noticed that both you, Adora and you, Sean, both do this.
When when
the other, and I'm going to say interlocutor, I'm using
that term very generously says something like
like they misgender you, Sean, or they call you dumb adorner
or something like that. generally, you guys
(14:40):
like hurtle right past that and go right back to the
argument, like, na, na na, I know you're trying to distract me.
I don't care that you just call me that.
like deal with what I just said.
Is that like a strategic thing or is that just something you do unconsciously?
Is it is it a decision?
Well, I personally try to keep people on track
(15:03):
because I, um, for me, especially with the TikTok debates, and I think this is with
a lot of TikTok debaters that um, uh, and
in general, the idea for me at least is education.
And so if we allow it to bear off
into just personal personal things as opposed to
actually going back to know, what about the
stat that I just stated, um then we lose completely the
(15:26):
point of what of what you're trying to uh convey.
What what is they're trying to teach, uh the information that you're
trying to give either the person themselves or on the people in the comments section.
So I intentionally tried, I mean,
it doesn't work a lot of tell.
And so there are plenty of times where it's just going
to end up into a um there's going to be a lot of contention.
(15:47):
But I try to at least bring it back to intentionally bring it back to the stats.
For me, it's more
it's I don't think it's necessarily strategic, nor is it,
I mean, I guess you can call it strategic, but
it more so just does not bother me.
(16:08):
Like it does not bother me that you call me a man.
It does not bother me that you say that I'm not really a girl.
It just does not bother me.
I just I do not care about that.
Like Adora said,
I'm in like I started doing stuff
on TikTok because I wanted to educate people about socialism
(16:32):
and especially black people on black
socialism afro Marxism and Africanism, black
nationalism, like I wanted to do that.
And if I'm arguing with someone or debating with someone who
is against those things,
I don't care about you calling me a man.
I don't care what you think about me.
You literally believe that racism doesn't exist,
(16:54):
so like I'm not going to take your word for whether or not I am a girl.
Like that means literally nothing to me.
Like,
I'm not in this to prove myself to a racist
or a homophobe or transphobe.
I'm in this to teach the people in my audience,
like whatever it is that I'm talking about.
(17:15):
And if we're talking about racism, what it whatever it is that
I'm teaching them about racism, if we're talking about
even if we're talking about transphobia, whatever it is about transphobia.
It just to me, um I like pointing it out.
uh, Jeff got me into that where uh we we start pointing out It's like, you see what he did there?
That's because he doesn't have an answer and that gets some that
(17:37):
usually gets them right back onactor like, nah, no, no, I do have an answer.
I do have an answer.
It's like, okay, so then why are you worried about my private parts then if you have an answer, that's crazy.
Yeah, you could just uh you could just respond and then
we would like you could be having this conversation
with a talking frog and it wouldn't change anything.
(17:59):
Now, I do want to preface this by saying that you all do that,
but nobody feels should feel like they should have to do that, right?
Like we I still want to make sure that people understand that
if that if somebody is dehumanizing you in any way,
feel free to point it out and um issue a
(18:20):
correction. um we just I know
all four of us we happen to be like what I call like debate mercenaries
and all of that stuff is is uh useless
uh to us as far as with the with the dialectic.
That that's also true, but I do want to point out that
it's also that strategy of like putting you in that box.
(18:44):
Like it's just a different way of doing it.
And it's a way of getting you to engage with, no, I'm
not in that box kind of thing where they just like
if they if someone called me a man and we ended the debate
there, I would never debate anyone.
I would never debate anyone, ever.
I would never get across any information, ever.
And if you stop, I'm not saying that you have to.
(19:07):
What I'm saying is, is that debating in it's
unfortunate that it does this, but debating calls for a thick skin.
It calls for you to be made of iron.
It calls for you to be like that person who that shit can just bounce off of you.
And if you're not that person, honestly, you probably
shouldn't be debating because they're not going to stop being bigots.
(19:28):
And you're not debating them to change their minds.
You're debating them to educate your audience.
The entire point of debate is education.
And if you're not there to educate your audience and you're
just there to embarrass bigots, even if that's your debate
strategy to embarrass bigots or whatever, that's cool.
But if you're just there to be like, yeah, this person's
(19:51):
a transphob or this person's a racist, they already know.
They're doing this for plausible deniability.
They're not doing this because they actually
think that what they're saying isn't race.
I mean, sometimes they are, but for the most part, they're not doing
this because they don't think that what they're saying isn't actually racist.
(20:11):
They know they hate black people.
They just want plausible deniability to hating black people.
They know they hate trans people.
They just want plausible deniability. to to say, no, I don't hate trans people.
I just feel like they're dangerous in bathrooms.
And then when you ask them for that's why when you ask them
for the evidence and being like, okay, what's the evidence of trans people are dangerous in bathrooms?
(20:34):
Well, you're a man.
It's like, okay, well, there you go.
Like that's it.
You just wanted me to engage with the fact
that like you think that I'm a man and
you only said you think that I'm dangerous in bathrooms for plausible deniability.
Um, I want to switch it over to like,
(20:58):
and I'm going to I'm going to structure this this way, uh intersectionality, right?
So like, I'm Afro Latino, I'm a black
man, uh solid, you're black, but not Latino, right?
And then we've got Adorno, you black woman, showing your trans black women.
We
Did you just find out?
Solid just found out that he's not Latino.
(21:20):
Like, no, because I haven't seen
you dance Madenga, but like, it maybe maybe that's what it is.
You got some some uh Spanish rhythm and you think.
I think that
uh if we were to Bachat next
to each other, we would give each other a run for our money.
A, we have have to okay, that's a challenge.
(21:44):
I see that as a challenge directly to my Dominicaness.
And my Dominicaness is saying that
my plantains are tastier than your plantains.
Well, that's absolutely true.
I'm just letting you know that that's that's a thing.
um But like, so when when I'm layering it down the line, right?
(22:08):
For me, what I'm what I'll notice is people play the game of invalidation.
Like when it is
my license to talk about black stuff, they will call me white.
When it is my license to talk about like when
(22:28):
I say white stuff, I mean what people consider intellectual
stuff, then they treat me like I'm black, right?
For solid.
I'm going to pass the ball to you and we're going to just layer the intersectionality
on top of that and then we'll just go around and just
tell me what the what the trick is for the marginalization
(22:52):
there. uh yeah.
So when it's time for me to
uh do the same thing,
yes, also as well, right?
Like I I have the same experiences, right as a since had
uh black man, you know what I mean?
(23:13):
um
I think I don't
have that layer of xenophobia that you probably get
right?
um and I definitely benefit from patriarchy, right?
um we just discussed that at the beginning of the
(23:33):
episode where like literally I can repeat the same thing
that a adorn said and somebody would be like man solid,
you know, it was and then you know what they'll you know what they'll say?
Well, he said it different.
He said it in a way that it was easier
for me to dig I didn't say I know I was so disrespectful
(23:54):
it was more palatable.
I was I was so disrespectful, but
but for whatever reason, we know the reason because of misogyny and misogen Noir,
I just get that pass, right?
You know how many times I've had that conversation and said,
they'll say like I was nicer about it. and I'm like, you didn't notice I called you an
(24:18):
idiot 11 times when I was explaining it times.
I called you a moron.
I literally said you don't know what.
But okay, Dorna, you I hope you trip over your grandmother's headstone.
Like you know type types and they go like he is so palatable.
He said it in such a calm way so polite
(24:39):
crazy Adora, your turn.
Oh yeah, so um I'm black, right So
there's the the aspect of um uh well, black people
are less educated, you know, fatherless homes.
Then they'll move on to, well, I just before this live I was in alive with Spencer.
You guys know Spencer.
(24:59):
And he's like, well, you're in Jamaican.
You you don't really know what oppression is like over there.
I'm like, you know there was slavery in Jamaica, too, right?
Um And then, um, whenever I point out,
for example, that uh black women's accomplishments in education,
um, or, um, or that we're the fastest growing
demographic of entrepreneurs in the United States, they'll say, well,
um, you're just getting uh degrees and things like,
(25:22):
you know, um, like psychology.
What do you really do with that?
Or you're just opening up beauty supply stores.
Who cares about those businesses?
So
all accomplishments out the window.
Right?
So yeah, different layers.
Yeah, ah, the accomplishment thing is is is nuts.
Sorry, Sean, go ahead.
No, you're fine.
(25:43):
You're fine.
I was going to say, like, I think we're probably going to get on this at
one point in time, but the goalost movement is just another
strategy because like they'll say something.
Like they'll be like, why don't you just go to college and get a degree?
And you'll be like, I have a degree and they'll be like, what is it in?
Wom's studies?
So now a degree is not enough?
Like it was your that was your hurdle.
(26:04):
I jumped over it.
Like. it's physical pal movement
and it's like, no, it's not in women's studies.
It's actually in physics.
Soft physics.
Yeah, I I see that that that's something
else. um I also see that in um,
(26:24):
and I'm going to this is another one to both of you.
You each approach uh your debates with a different degree of data, right?
And so somebody will say, I
know Sean, you talk a lot about socialism and communism and adorning
you talk a lot about like, uh the history of race and racism and
somebody will say, show me this.
(26:47):
And then here comes a list of data points.
Yeah, but does it
like, does it really like you didn't just say no, does it really happen though?
And well, address this one
and the response is, nuh-uh, it's just some version of nah-uh, right?
Yeah, um a
(27:09):
staff that I like to use because because they always talk about fatherless
homes or um black people being criminals or lack of education.
A that I love to use is that in 2020 the proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences
did a study that shows that black newborns are three
times more likely to to die, usually I stay in
alive, to to die in the hospital,
(27:32):
when they're cared for by a white doctor than a black doctor.
And immediately they'll be like, well, well, black babies are
usually underweight or or they're um, you know, they have these health issues because the mother.
And I'm like, well, if it was because of that, then
they would still be dying under the black doctors as well.
Like immediately there they're trying to find reasons to discredit what you're saying.
(27:53):
Yeah, all the time.
Yeah, they
do that a lot, like a lot a lot.
And I'm just like whenever I ask for a symmetry breaker
uh for something like that doesn't
make sense for anything other than race, where I'm just like, hey,
(28:13):
show me the reason as to why like adorn said. show me the reason that's
why black babies are three times more likely to die under white doctors and they'll say that.
They'll be like, oh, well, black women have problems and black babies have problems.
And I'm like, so you mean to tell me there shouldn't be any white doctors?
because black doctors are just better.
And then they're just like, no, no, no.
(28:33):
And I'm just like, what do you want from me?
I don't know what to tell you.
Like I asked you to tell me why, like babies
are dying under white doctors more than black doctors.
And what you gave me was that black doctors
know how to deal with these complications better.
You didn't say that out loud, but that's what,
you know, what you had said would imply.
(28:57):
that's the reason I use that study.
I started out saying that they usually have all these other objections.
So the reason I use these studies because I'm like, well, what did the newborns do?
What did they commit?
use there are plenty of stats I have, but if I
use something that has to do with the system, they' people they'll something.
I use using a babies't any liqu stores lately.
(29:22):
So, yeah, and still, well, they're spreading it.
Well, to be fair, Dave Chappelle did see a baby on the street corner.
Sulling crack. selling crack. selling.
You know what I like to do, but I like to call out the core
racism that they're doing, right?
For example, when I bring up the maternal mortality rate.
(29:45):
right response that I'll get is, well, uh black women are more
likely to have diabetes and be overweight.
And then I like to just go, oh, so you're calling black women fat.
That's so race. racist that's so fucking racist.
and then I watch them squirm and I laugh.
No, but solid what I like that you do as well is usually they'll they'll
(30:07):
say that and you'll be like, but why are they?
Like trying to go to take them
still leads.
Like you like the approach
that you take with like the nature versus nurture.
Yeah, yeah.
I like when Solid hits the hits like the whisper talk.
(30:30):
and he's like, but why?
And then he then they say something he's
like, okay, but why?
That shit.
Yeah, that should hit.
That that's on point.
Um, all right.
So, uh, a fun part is,
since we're talking about a lot of the uh the racists that we talked to
(30:54):
uh racists, homophobes, etc., you
you uh Sean, you and I joke about this a lot.
It's like, like we can make certain
like we can say certain things.
But when when you're a homophobe, right, your your
one job, when you're when you're trying to insult me one job.
(31:16):
And this is, look, in case there are any racists or homophobes
out there, transphobes, etc.,
when you are doing whatever you're doing,
the one job you have is not to say no weird stuff.
Don't say no weird shit in my direction and
not say cause look we all know don't say that and not say pause.
(31:37):
Don't say that and not say no ditty.
Don't say that and just like like I I
had a a reel on Instagram that somebody responded
to and they said down the throat like
two or three times in their reply.
And I'm like,
bro, you had you can't be a homophobe.
Like they did all the homophobia in their previous thing and then they're saying all the weird shit.
(32:04):
I like highlighting that because it's like this is what's on your mind.
This is literally like you could have said anything else and this is what you chose to say.
So, um, yeah, let's do a round table about that.
Why why I I say I
say they're all closeted and they should live their truth.
Do y'all agree with that?
(32:25):
But they're they're like it's a bunch of closeted dudes?
I don't I will say I don't want to add to the idea
of like it's uh because there's a stereotype of marginalized people doing it to themselves
but I I do got to say these it's
like dick for real like they don't they don't like they don't like kooch.
(32:48):
I'm telling you, I'm telling you.
And it goes to show because like with the massagey, you're laughing, but I'm so serious.
Like with the misogyny, think about like when a man dates
a man who he's trying to impress or something,
when a man dates a woman who he's trying to impress.
right?
Like think about like what he does in order to
impress his friends versus what he will do in order to impress his girlfriend.
(33:14):
Like niggas will literally say like, oh, no, no, I can't do that.
What would the boys think?
And it's like, what will the boys think?
Nigga, we're talking about having sex.
Like what are you talking?
What would the boys think?
Like why why are they having any say at all?
And it goes into the debate realms, I believe,
because like you said, Jeff, your one job is that if you're
(33:36):
a homophobe, the only thing that you need to do is not be a faggot.
and the first thing that they do is just come out with
some faggot shit and I'd be like, bro, like I'm gay, so I could say that.
I could say I like dick.
I could say I like pussy.
I could say I like whatever, right, but you come up here
and you just say wild stuff we had
(33:58):
a dude it on solid life one time was it on solid's
live I believe and it was like all you had to do was
not say some wild shit and the first thing this nigger says is bussy.
and he said the whole term too he said boy pussy he didn't
even say bussy and I was like bro you have one job you have one job.
(34:19):
What are you talking about?
I think the whole sentence was is anybody looking for?
It was too.
It very was.
And I was like is anybody looking for this no Paul, any cat talking?
No pause he didn't say is anybody looking for bussy pause?
nothing, zero things and I was just like
(34:41):
listen, listen, if you're if you're a homophob,
the only thing you have to do is not say something gay.
If you're a transphobe, the only thing that you have to do is not hit my DMs.
The like these are the only things that you have to do and they fail
miserably, like, absolutely miserably.
(35:01):
And it's crazy to me because it goes into
that misogyny taught that misogyny point we talked about before,
because men, when I say these niggas like dick for real, what
I really mean is that men don't date women because
they like women, men date women because
they want to impress other men.
(35:21):
Men say things to women and like
try and get certain women and even get married to
a certain extent because they want to impress other men's like, oh, that's what you got.
That's what you booked.
And that goes into the debate styles.
Whenever they say something or do something, when they try and put you in
that box, they really just expose themselves in the things that they think about.
(35:45):
Like on my everyday basis, I don't really think like I'm I'm a trans woman.
I don't really think about gay shit when I'm out at the mall.
I don't really think about like what it is.
I mean, unless I got to go to the bathroom, then I have to think like, which bathroom should I go into or whatever?
But like, I really don't think about like gay stuff when I'm out.
(36:08):
I just think about regular shit.
I'm out with my friends.
I want to know what makeup I'm going to buy, what clothes I want to buy, et cetera, et cetera.
And it just goes to show that like on their everyday
basis, when they walk into a mall or something, they're just like,
how much bussy is in the boys room today?
And that's just like crazy to me because I'm just like, I would never say anything like that.
(36:29):
Like we make actual points we were talking about it.
We make actual points and we bring up points of data solid.
solid is losing his mind.
We bring up action, but I'm so serious, though.
We bring up actual data points and we think about
the things that actually affect us on a daily basis and
(36:49):
we bring up uh like, oh, this is how racism is faced.
This is how this is
uh transphobia affects these people.
This is like the data behind this thing or whatever else it may be that we're talking about.
And it goes to show they're not thinking about that.
They they didn't come up to sol it.
(37:10):
it's he's done.
He's so boy's.
He's hooked, but I'm so am I wrong though like am I wrong?
Like we're we're sitting here and we think about data points.
For for the most part, when I go out,
the thing that I'm thinking about most of the time is don't say something about communism.
Don't say something about socialism.
(37:32):
Don't talk about how capitalism sucks.
Don't talk about this.
Don't talk about that.
Don't talk about this oppression, whatever, whatever, just be a normal
person with your friends and don't be like, you know why that soda costs $29.
like the
closest overlap thing that I I'll like, and this is a
(37:52):
thought I had recently is, is it a flex
to just make egg salad for no reason?
Like, is that is is that too much?
You know, it's silly things like that because, you know, everybody's
thinking about the price of eggs and I'm just like, I
got an A pack and I'm just going to make egg salad egg
(38:13):
And just hold it.
Is that a flex or is that like me being me being me being dumb, right?
I was like salad.
Where's he going with this?
I thought about it immediately because Trump
is supposed to make eggs so cheap everybody complaining,
I'm like I didn't I didn't really notice too much, but
(38:36):
again, it's because like when I'm doing my day
to day, I'll notice the things that affect, even if
something doesn't affect me, I'll notice it if it affects somebody else.
And it will be something that I'll pay attention to and I'll talk about it.
But if it's something that has nothing to do with anything, like what
like if I if I cross somebody in in the street, I
(38:58):
don't think, hey, which bathroom are you going to use?
Exactly.
Exactly.
That is not something you think about on a regular basis.
And it goes to show like the things that they bring up, like
I get that we're on debate talk, right?
And I get if we're talking about transphobia, you're going to bring up trans people.
But the stuff I feel is though, and correct me if I'm wrong,
(39:20):
I feel like the stuff that they bring up just most of
the time isn't very relevant.
I mean, we did just see is it Lauren Bart just
a few days ago had to apologize because she saw someone go into the ladies room
uh that she thought was a trans person.
(39:40):
So she went and got security and said, um there's a guy
in the in the ladies bathroom and it turned out to be a assistant a woman.
Yeah, yeah.
But also in on on the topic of repressed feelings and whether
like people are on like the DL or, you know, what that that topic.
I think for women, um
like let's say uh a guy goes down on a girl, right?
(40:05):
A girl can also go down on a girl, right?
So although there's the difference in who you love, a lot of the actions are still going to be similar.
Whereas for men,
um, regardless of whether you are with a man or a woman, there
are certain things that they won't do.
So, for example, like a finger or something like that going somewhere.
So even when they're with their woman, they won't do that.
(40:26):
So there there there's a curiosity that's there because
it's something that everyone says feels good, but I'm not going to try regardless of who I'm with, whereas with a woman,
regardless of whether it's a guy that's going down on me or like
there's so many things that women are still willing to do just with their partner or whichever
sex or gender that their partner is.
Whereas men, despite the gender or sex that their partner,
(40:47):
are willing to try because they think it might look that a certain way.
And this is that's also a thing too, too.
Because like dudes will tell me, like when I was socialized
as a man, dudes would tell me, like, I
would say like, oh, yeah, you know, we did I
went out, I hooked up with a girl, whatever, whatever, or sometimes,
you know, if I was comfortable, I'd tell them, you know, I went out, hooked up with a dude or whatever, blah, blah, blah.
(41:12):
But most of the time when I tell them I hooked up with a girl,
they'll say something and be like like when I tell they'll be like, oh, what's the details?
And I won't go into too many details.
But like you said, going down, they'll be like, oh, no, I can't go down or no girl.
What would a niggas think?
What would the boys think?
And I'm like, well, why are the boys thinking about you
going down on a That doesn't make any sense.
(41:33):
Like again, we're talking about you literally talking about
having sex with a woman and you're worried about what other men think.
That doesn't
I mean, so does that feed the curiosity then?
Like, because I remember Wendy Williams used to say that all the time, like, you
know, a finger, which is automatic orgasm,
(41:53):
and guys are like, nope, not going to try it.
And I think that there's that curiosity then of something that they think feels good, but are never going to try.
Good.
And they're never going to try it because other
men may think a certain way of them.
And I'm just like, if you're with a woman, if you if you call
yourself a heterosexual man and you're straight and you're with a
(42:16):
woman and she wants to do something like with you,
you if you don't feel comfortable, you don't feel comfortable.
That's that's a whole different thing.
But you don't feel comfortable because you're worried about what
that nigga at the barbershop will think?
You don't want to be perceived as homosexual.
Exactly.
I'm I'm gonna give just a little bit
(42:36):
of pushback and I'm going to cite a philosopher
on this one and I'll tell you who it is afterward.
Have you considered milk milk lemonade
round the corner fudges made?
That's.
That's deep.
(42:56):
But by the philosopher'sy in the fourth grade?
100% percent 100%.
But listen, I would say to to retort to Katie
um is that, uh I
want to say this in in terms that would be appropriate.
around the corner fudge is actually made, but dudes
(43:17):
will do other things with other peoples around the corner.
So, like if you're worried about
fudge, then why why are you
asking about the other
the other uh I don't even know what
else to say whole or if it's
(43:42):
or if it's wait, you never you never heard that growing up?
I never lemonade the
cornerclecle dotcle dot
s the other no.s that's
(44:07):
the diarrhea, you
Here's what I know. all right here.
I'm use as an example.
Solid, you and I talk on the phone all the time.
Accurate.
Right.
Very accurate.
Pause, nigga.
(44:28):
no no pause.
No pause.
Yes, yes, Diddy.
So but at no point is solid ever going to judge
anything that I do in my
bedroom because we' I'm not like,
(44:49):
hey, like you because you were saying, hey,
they don't do this this thing, even though it feels good because what will
the boys think, the boys will only know if boss, what the fuck you talking about?
Exactly.
Like why are you going back to your boys and being like, hey, and then we did this?
And even if then lie, nigga, like what what the fuck?
(45:10):
Don't tell the like why are you telling them that?
Why is that part of the conversation?
I don't understand I don't understand that if I don't
ever asked you anything about your love life.
Nobody need to know.
There's people I know on this planet for over 30 years
(45:30):
and we talked and never wasn't hey, when you when you was
with your girl yesterday, was y'all like, did you go downstairs like what?
Yeah.
I quit forever.
I'm clipping the hell out of that.
(45:55):
But the fact that it's like yo, he think about thumbs right now.
Oh my God.
Oh, FaceTime is uh firing shots. um
How can people avoid like if
let's say somebody's listening to this and they're like, I want to be better.
(46:17):
how can people avoid silencing or erasing
voices of specific specifically black women women of color.
So I think um I don't think that it's wrong
(46:39):
to have implicit bias. because I think that's something we can't control.
Our brains are our brains are sponges, something we can't control.
However, recognizing that we have implicit bias
and then being cognizant of your actions and like actually
educating yourself on it,
allows you then to realize that you're not in someone else's shoes, right?
(47:01):
And that even if you disagree with their perspective, it's
likely because you're not seeing it from their perspective
because you're not in that in in that demographic and you have some biases that perhaps you have not dealt with yet.
So I think people just educating themselves on the fact that they
have biases, what these biases might be, and then
even when they disagree realizing, I'm just not seeing
(47:22):
it from that point of view, potentially because of where I'm coming from
as opposed to where that person come from, that would help not silence.
Like that person is saying something I don't agree with, I'm not going to silence them
because they clearly are seeing it from a different viewpoint that I don't have.
People just realize that.
I think that, um I think
(47:43):
one of the bigger things is awareness, like you
being aware of like who you who you are and where you're coming from.
Like I'm constantly aware of like
who I am, where I came from.
um and I try and be as aware as the privileges as I possibly can.
I think it's possible to know all the privileges that you
(48:04):
like possess over a person because someone will come through and
you'll be like, god damn, I didn't even know that was a thing.
And you realize you don't have that
and in like a capitalistic society, especially that
that is for them a disadvantage.
So that's a privilege that you have.
But I do try and be aware, at least for me,
(48:25):
all of the things that not only could affect
me as a trans woman and oppress me, but all of the things
like all of the privileges that I face
societalise before I came out as trance.
Because so being socialized as a man, even
though a black man, I still benefited from
(48:48):
patriarchal violence towards women.
and I still benefited from uh the
things that like when men uh do all of these
things that uh micro aggressions and whatever towards
women, um I don't know if we call them micro aggressions, but I'm going to call them that anyway.
uh micro aggressions towards women, um I
(49:08):
still benefited from that societalise.
So when people heard me talk, they took me
seriously more than they took, who maybe a
friend that's a one of my friends that's a girl,
um, or a sister girl, what I mean. um,
and to go about understanding that as as
(49:29):
a when I was socialized as a man, as a black
man, my mother told me at one point in time,
kind of she sat me down and she was like, your your
stepfather don't know this because that nigga's light skin, but I need you to know
this. um as a dark skinned
black man, this is what she told me as a dark skinned black man everywhere you go,
(49:50):
people will see you.
They'll pretend like they don't.
They'll pretend like they don't hear you, but they'll just that
that's just them pretending they see you and to
them you are a threat
you are nothing but a threat, you will
never be anything but a threat.
And she was saying that on
(50:13):
the basis of race and the uh hyperf fixation
of society on black men to be violent and
or at least think that black men are violent.
But it goes into what I was thinking every
time I stepped on the subway, every time I stepped in an office building,
every time I went into the mall, every time I stepped into any store,
any any place at school, wherever, is that
(50:37):
I realized everyone notices me, not
in like a main character kind of way, more like in a villain kind of way.
Everyone sees me here.
Everyone's afraid of me.
Everyone knows like, or at least they think
that I am like super capable of like hyper violence.
And the reason as to why it doesn't really matter.
(51:00):
The whole point is is that they notice me.
And I think noticing ourselves on that
scale with privilege is something that
I I don't know if we need to sit down with each other and tell each other,
like, hey, when you walk into a room, you benefit
from massive amounts of privileges, especially,
(51:20):
uh well, like what I've been noticing lately ever since the election.
Trump ain't been in office for a fucking pay period,
and I have to constantly tell black American men,
hey, nigga, you're not the most oppressed people in the world like
you need to walk into a room and realize that when
(51:41):
you're calling someone an immigrant, that's white supremacy.
You need to realize that even though our
ancestors were brought here, like unwillingly and
forced to labor and all that other shit, there were people who
were taken to other places forced to work and
do, you know, the same thing that our ancestors did.
(52:04):
and America is making sure that them niggas don't have running water.
And you're sitting here telling them that they shouldn't
come here because you've accepted the idea of
uh like immigrants are ruining your life
rather than the racism is ruining your life.
You need to sit the fuck down and realize that privilege.
(52:27):
And I think the same thing goes with black women,
where or at least black men with black women, especially, um
and they go, uh, a black women, because I've heard this a lot lately where
black men will say things like black women are upholding white
supremacy because feminism is white supremacy.
And it's a way to do things like they say emitilling
(52:50):
a black man and say, oh, these false allegations
against black men are historically ruining black men's lives and all of this other stuff.
And they and I'm just like, nigga, you need to sit down and realize that
the person who's sang this about you is facing
that same kind of discrimination.
like, you don't hear them talk about angry black women.
(53:11):
You don't think that they think black women are capable of
violence or believe that black women are capable
of some sort of extreme violence due to stereotypes.
Like, you're just silencing black women because
you've accepted the white supremacist thought process.
I'm going shut up.
I'm yapping.
But
(53:31):
that's, I think us noticing who
we are and the benefits that we have in society
is something that we need to kind of get people to realize.
I don't know how to say that.
Yeah, I'm glad you actually brought up colorism, too,
like when we spoke about the difference between a light skinned man, the experiences a light skinned man versus a dark skinned man.
(53:56):
But even when we're talking about women in general, like when we did the intersectionality portion of this,
um there was the that extra additional
layer of being a dark skinned woman, right?
And I think that if we're talking about voices
being discounted, we see a lot of that happening too.
We see a lot of those discussions happening on, um
(54:17):
on TikTok where we'll have
a discussion about colorism and a lightskinned person will be like, well, I got called up a banana, right?
And it's like, and it's it's the same thing and the complete
disregard of the experiences of darksinned black women.
So like there are studies that show, for example,
that we know that um like
(54:38):
American psychological association, do we et cetera speak about black
children being 3.6 times more likely to be suspended from
school for the same behaviors as white children?
But black dark skinned black
black children are actually three times more likely than light-sinned
black children to be suspended from school.
And even more specific to black women, uh darkskinned
(54:59):
black women are five times more likely to be incarcerated
in their lifetime than a lightsinned black woman.
And so there there's layers to this shit.
Like there's layers that people don't realize it.
So I'm hearing a lot of awareness.
Sorry, go ahead, Sean.
No, no, no.
I was all I was going to say was I was going to kind of piggyback
off a Dorna, because I think that like, uh, the hypersexualization
(55:23):
of black men, like the stereotypes that black men go through, I think that does fall into
lighter skinned black men, but I think lightsinned
black men have a whole different set of stereotypes that
need to be addressed as well because the reason why
my mother told me that, um was like, uh when
I was socialized as a man, is she was like, your father doesn't
(55:45):
realize this because he's lightsinned and she went into it and she said, because
people don't believe that light skinned men like lightsinned
black men are hyper violent, they believe that lightskinned black men
are hyper emotional and like,
say like emotional things and do like hyper things,
like with their emotions, like they believe that like lightsinned
(56:08):
black men will fuck your wife, but they don't
believe that like lightskinned black men are
lightskinned black men are necessarily
like fetishized uh the way that like I would
have been fetishized or whatever else it might be. uh they
just, you know, pretty boys type shit. um
(56:29):
Right.
But no, and and that that
was the whole thing, too, because it was instead of it being,
for me, the way that she described it is that people look
at light skinned black men and they go, oh, I got to watch
out around him because he's going to make my
wife emotionally cheat on me whereas me being
(56:51):
socialized as a as a dark skinned black man is that I
need to watch out for him because he's going to rape my wife.
And it's like too totally different things
where, uh, yeah.
That's true.
um So I'm
(57:12):
going to segue here to talk about
think proletariat, um,
because it is my brother's
line of merch, um and I want to
say, uh as we close out that you can go to 4tp
byolid.com uh solid
(57:34):
uh seems that have gone off camera, but he's
back and get one of the uh pink proletariat,
uh hoodies, cardigans. uh, you want to talk about that solid?
Yeah, my absolute favorite is this crude neck
sweater, okay that's got the hybrid logo.
(57:55):
It's got the end of a species. um meteor
or is it a meteor or a cobbit?
It's whatever will get rid of us quicker.
Okay.
All right.
The the it's abstract for a reason the fla ball of space junk
um and and the
(58:16):
rhino it's just I think it's super cool.
I think it's uh it's I'm going to get one.
It's going to be white.
It's giving a little bit of
blanch from golden Girls with their background.
oh you know what?
Well that's a separate thing, but yes.
(58:37):
All the yes on that. uh I love
that. um I'll I'll say he probably paired
with the prolontariat under armor hoodie
that has both of our logos on it that I'm just going to point out right here.
But yeah, the entire line is fire. um
and so if you want to support
(58:59):
either uh the end of a species podcast or
uh the 4TP uh movement, right?
This is how you do it.
Go to the merch store, get some merch.
It allows us to continue doing these broadcasts and bring on these awesome guests and
get all this information to you.
(59:20):
Um, I am
going to say the following, I am Jeff from end of a species.
You will see, uh, if you don't know my socials ready, they're going to be in the description
uh super solid, same for you.
Adorna and Sean are going to put all of your information in the description.
Is there anything you guys want to share before we sign out?
(59:43):
I want to thank you for having us on appreciate it.
Oh, it was a lot of fun.
Yeah, I want I want to thank you for having me on.
I appreciate it.
Um
The only thing that I would say is that uh for
you, Jeff, this is for you. um, comets are
bigger than meteors.
So it would probably
(01:00:04):
be a comment for you.
I'm all about it all about it. um
It also goes with the efforts that you may have heard that
are still ongoing to get all the hydrogen out of the sun.
um So with that, like share,
subscribe, do all the things, joined the respective discords and I'll see you guys next time.
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