January 12, 2021 • 66 mins
In her late 20’s, Bekah could not stand to look in the mirror. She couldn’t stand to look her loved ones in the eye and see their disappointment. After nearly ten years of being broken with addiction, she had the sudden revelation that if she continued the way she was going, her life would surely end. She had destroyed her relationships with her family, and shamefully avoided all her friends that mattered most.
She went into a wilderness therapeutic program for just shy of 90 days. At around two weeks in, she began to love the things that once brought her joy. These things were hard to discover, because they had been gone for so long. Her sober living aftercare protected all that she learned in treatment.
Since 2010, she has been sober and getting back what addiction took away from her. She has worked in the recovery field in many areas, including direct care at multiple primary treatment programs, bedside in a psychiatric unit as a certified nursing assistant, and more recently working with clients and families as an admissions counselor for a young adult program.
Her life now is something she would have only dreamed of having years ago. The rewards of her recovery keep coming daily. She now shares her wisdom and supports young women finding their own path of recovery through Ember Lodge.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jen (00:00):
Welcome back to the unbreakable boundaries Podcast
(00:02):
with your hosts myself, JenniferManeely. In today's episode, I
got a chance to talk with a goodfriend of mine, Becca who owns a
recovery community. For youngadult women called Ember Lodge,
I highly recommend you checkingthem out links are in my show
notes. Her journey into how shegot into this business of
(00:23):
helping other women started withher own journey, which we
discuss quite a bit in thisepisode. She has been sober
since 2010. And she has beensince getting back what
addiction took away from her.
She has worked in the recoveryfield in many different areas,
before she started her ownorganization, including direct
(00:44):
care at multiple primarytreatment programs. She's worked
in psychiatric unit as acertified nursing assistant and
more recently, with clients andfamilies as an admission
counselor for a young adultprogram. And now she shares her
wisdom and helps other youngadult women transition
themselves into the recoveryjourney through her own
(01:06):
organization, Ember Lodge. Andnow, I love to give a big
welcome to my friend who's sokindly and generous, sharing her
journey with us, Becca, Becca,thank you so much for agreeing
to do this. I know you have somuch going on in your life, you
(01:27):
own your own company, thingshave been really crazy. And I
can totally understand the thetime that it takes. So I really
appreciate you coming on, andbeing willing to talk to my
audience, because I know youhave so many good things for the
families, for other recoveringpeople. You're just an amazing
person. So I appreciate this,this opportunity for you and I
(01:51):
to to have this greatconversation. I know we're
getting ready to have.
Bekah (01:56):
Yeah, thanks, John. Glad to be here. grateful for the
opportunity. So thank you. Andso
Jen (02:02):
where I always kind of want to get started with people is
one I didn't want to start alittle bit love, like your
journey your growing up. Whatkind of family did you grow up
in? And and how did you even getstarted because you own your own
recovery community houses whereyou really support other
(02:24):
recovering people. And I thinkit's always great when people
like you do that, because youreally understand the needs of
what a person in recovery needs.
And so I think it's just amazingwhen people have their own
journeys and battles withsubstance abuse, and then
dedicate their lives to servingothers. So I want to get into
kind of your start of that intohow did you get into doing what
(02:50):
you're doing?
Bekah (02:53):
Yeah, happy to share. So I'm originally from upstate New
York, really small towngraduated with about 64 people
in my high school. So reallyhappy childhood. Like I said,
I'm one of four kids. And I'mthe youngest. So my dad worked
(03:14):
really, really hard. My mom wasa stay at home mom and have a
lot of really happy memoriesfrom my childhood. We never went
without we have all of ourfamily was close by
grandparents. And so we'repretty tight knit Italian
Catholic Italian family. So Ithink you are familiar with that
(03:38):
story of Catholic. So like,everybody kind of knows that,
that story. So a lot of youknow, big family gatherings and
really tighten that. Yeah, verytraditional. But I, you know, I
(03:59):
can't say that I always feltreally secure in who I was. And
I think that as an adolescentand young adult, I think it kind
of was exposed more just witheverything that comes along with
that age. I was in a verytraumatic accident when I was
(04:19):
15, which nearly ended my lifeand put me in the ICU and it was
in a coma on you know, got mylast last rites from priest and
my family was pretty much set,you know, saying goodbye to me.
So I think that just, you know,that the combination of that
(04:43):
trauma and also that time in mylife of transition of being in
transitioning from adolescent toyoung adults and you know, all
the things that are the bigfeelings that kind of come along
with that were a perfect stormfor me and no one that was in
the hospital for, you know, amonth or so I was introduced to
morphine and IV morphine. Sofrom a young age I was
(05:06):
introduced opiates. And that'skind of what I think really
began my journey with opiateswas that incident when I was 15?
So I was relearning how to walkin, in trying to fit into my
social group in high school andthe drugs were really
(05:28):
accessible. Definitely.
Jen (05:30):
Right. Well, and that's kind of be a we're like, not, I
don't want to say weird, butjust a unique experience as a 15
year old girl, when we're justtrying to figure life out
already. And something happens.
It can really, I couldn'timagine seeing, like, I know
what I was, like, when I was 15.
(05:52):
Right? And it's like, yeah, itwas hard enough as it isn't like
this being a 15 year old femaleis traumatic. And, and having to
really relearn all of the basicsof life, again, can probably
make you feel very separate andisolated in that way. Because
(06:13):
it's like, who could? Who aroundyou could possibly know you're
going through at that time? So,um, so I guess the a good
question would be, what what wasyour friend group, like, at that
time, when you were trying torelearn all this stuff.
Bekah (06:36):
So I hadn't, you know, my best friend who was beside me
for everything, I think that itwas really traumatic for her,
and she's still my best friendto this day, we still talk
daily. Um, so, but my peer groupoutside, you know, we were, I
was still kind of finding myfooting, just like every other
15 year old, you know, you don'twant to be different, you want
(06:58):
to be accepted. And thensomething big happens. And I was
kind of under the microscope ina way that I didn't want to be.
And so naturally, I think itcaused me to retreat and an
isolate and maybe act out inways that I wouldn't, wouldn't
have, because it was rooted in atrauma and uncertainty. And, you
(07:19):
know, they don't really thinkabout the impact from a medical
standpoint of discharging a 15year old child, you know, as a
child with copious amounts ofopiates. Yeah, they just don't
really think about that. Backthen they didn't think about
that. I think they think aboutit more now. But at that time,
(07:40):
there wasn't, you know, a followup plan of, you know, checking
in on me, you know, my mentalhealth, how the trauma impacted
me. You know, I was gettingprescriptions for pain
medications very frequently. AndI kind of learned that I had
something that other peoplewanted, which was right. I
(08:02):
remember, I remember pulling outmy medication. And somebody
said, What's that? And I waslike, oh, people are interested
in this. And suddenly, I havesomething that that other people
want, which was powerful, Iguess, at that age, especially
for some, especially forsomebody who wants to fit in,
you know, Oh, yeah.
Jen (08:23):
So and So how long were you prescribe this medication? And
when it and when did you stoptaking the medication as
prescribed?
Bekah (08:40):
Now, the timeline is a little bit hazy, because I kind
of was starting to smoke pot twoalongside it. And it continued,
continued until, I mean, for, atleast the year following the
acts, and then I wouldintermittently be able to get
(09:01):
medication. I mean, they justhad to look at my X rays and see
my spinal fusion and all thethings and they'd be like, yeah,
here, we were to thisprescription, you know. And so
when I went to college, it wasnatural that I mean, things were
just so much more accessiblethere. Right, all different
types of peer groups and peoplewho are into all different types
(09:24):
of things, and I could exploremyself more and, you know,
looked for other wounded people,I guess, to associate with and I
found that I, you know, I founda group that I fit in with when
I got to college, and it wasn'tnecessarily the best choice. I'm
(09:48):
not saying that it was my peersthat were responsible for my
actions, but I chose to engagein relationships that you know,
were founded on principles thatI think kind of allowed the the
(10:09):
addiction to grow, if that makessense. Oh, yeah.
Jen (10:12):
And I think, you know, for the families that are out there
listening, this is somethingthat they really have a struggle
with in understanding that wehave a tendency to gravitate to
what you said you, you went toseek out wounded people in your,
(10:33):
and maybe it was a very, at thattime, it was probably very
unconscious. And like, yeah, nowwe can see it for what it is
2020 as healthy productivemembers of society again, we're
like, Dude, I really like, youknow, pick some really horrible
people in my life. But at thetime, it was more of, at least
(10:57):
for me, it was just like, it's,it's like a magnetism. It's like
we resonated with each other, wefelt connected, even in that
unhealthy way. And I think forfamilies out there, what's
really hard for them to see isthat their loved ones have
(11:18):
something that they'regravitating to. So it's not the
people around them fault thatthey're behaving in such a way.
It's what is, it's, it'ssomething inside of us that is
we need to feel connected. Andthis is who we happen to feel.
(11:39):
And right. It's like I hear allthe time, like families will be
like, Oh, if they would justdrop that boyfriend or that
girlfriend, and they're causingall these problems? Well, it's
like, well, right, if that's whothey're gravitating to,
Bekah (11:53):
that's exactly true. And that's what who I wanted to
attract. And I'm gonna guessactually, I know, if my trauma
had been, you know, moreaddressed prior to entering
college, my self esteem wouldhave been different. And I
probably would have attracteddifferent people or invited
(12:14):
different people into my life,because I felt different about
myself. Yeah. Does that makesense? Oh, yeah. So I think
that, really, it was, it wasvery crucial that I addressed
the trauma. You know, before Ididn't even heal myself.
Jen (12:32):
Oh, absolutely. And I think that's the other hard thing to
really understand too, as, wedon't always get to know as a 15
year old, how to ask for what weneed. Right? We get to know at
the time how that's going toimpact us 1015 years down the
(12:54):
road. And all of the beliefsystems that that moment is
creating, we don't we're justliving our lives, and we're just
trying to fit in and belong andbe normal, quote, unquote,
normal, it's not have thematurity level at that age to
go, oh, like, I'm really dealingwith this emotionally, and I
(13:16):
need you to come help me. And,and so it's, it's one of those
things where it's like, we haveto listen to our teenagers, I
guess, or trauma, like asadults, we need to be paying
attention to some of thesethings that are going on, and
know how to interpret the datathat we're given. Because we're
(13:38):
the ones on the on the adultside of things now, that can be
the emotionally mature people.
So you know, the doctors, theparents, that all these things,
they're the ones that have tokind of go, I really think that
we need to address the emotionalneeds of a very immature
teenager. And so that'ssomething that is like I have
(13:59):
yet to meet a 15 year old thatknows how to ask for what they
need, because they don't writethey need, we know what they
write. We just don't
Bekah (14:11):
so the things that we grab are really probably not the
best things but to like thethings that are close by letter
accessible.
Jen (14:19):
Whatever is accessible, you know, whether it's emotional
needs that are unhealthy whetherit's substances that make us
feel whole inside that keep thatdarkness at bay, a little bit
um, that whatever it is, it'slike as as young adults we don't
(14:41):
i don't know i just like as ahigh schooler, there was just no
way I could convey my what wasgoing on with me and the
isolation that I felt thedarkness that I felt the things
that I was grabbing on to andfeeding the darkness so I
thought that I was resonatingwith With material. So like,
(15:02):
when I was in high school I, I,this was way before, I'm going
to share a little bit aboutmyself, probably too much, but
it's okay. I was really intolike death and vampires before
they were cooled like Twilightdidn't exist, right? These were
like not, but I was really intothe darkness of things. And what
(15:23):
I didn't understand at that timewas that it was feeding it. I
just thought I was with it. Andso I didn't really understand
that. And I think that a lot oftimes people like us has a
tendency to be the darkness. Andwhile we're thinking we're
resonating with it.
Bekah (15:44):
Oh, for sure, you know, and I had this, I have this idea
that the darkness was what wasmaking me creative and unique
and different. And so I kind ofcome to this identity of being
in my degree is in writing, andI kind of kind of clung to this
identity that I needed to betortured, soul, like a tormented
(16:05):
soul, you know, that in order tocreate, I had to be really in
touch with that with that part.
And I think that's completelytrue. Because, you know, I was I
was told when I greatest thingsthat I was told about that part
of me is that it's also a verydark place is also a very
fertile place. But that doesn'tmean that I need to live there,
right. So it took me a while tolearn that it's part of me that
(16:30):
I can accept that I can tapinto, but it doesn't make me who
I am. It doesn't make me acreative person. It helps me
it's one of the components thatmakes me who I am. And I can
kind of get out of thatacknowledge that part and get
out of it. And kind of be thewho I always actually imagined
(16:53):
that I could be right. Yeah. Ithink living in the darkness and
in feeding that is kind of asuch a slippery slope. And
that's exactly where I was. Iwas just living in a very grim
outlook of purpose and reallydidn't see much of a point.
Jen (17:16):
Yeah. Yeah,
Bekah (17:17):
anything. Yeah,
Jen (17:19):
it does start it starts to feed that, like, you know, why
am I even here? Like, I know,for me, I got to have a suicidal
place. Although I didn't have Ididn't want to necessarily at
(17:39):
times I, I wanted to killmyself. But it was more of like,
I kind of just wish a bus or acliff. I would like drive off a
cliff one day or something wouldhappen. Because there was just
no future because there was nopoint in the world was so dark
and gray anyway, and you know,all of that. And so it for me,
(18:03):
like I there was just that thatconstant. Every time I would
look at someone something in theback of my mind. I'm like, I
just I think I just either needto go into the psych ward, or
I'm going to snap one day andcrazy crap is going to happen.
And you know, I'm going to go ona like killing spree us when I
(18:27):
thought it was like death bypolice. That's what I envisioned
and so many ways. Um, but so foryou. When you went off to
college in you were resonatingand seeking out these unhealthy
people and feeding youraddiction. When would you say it
(18:51):
got to the point maybe this wasafter college? I'm not sure your
timeline. But when would you saythat you found that you really
started having, noticing that itwas an issue. Like you were
like, I think I think I'm havinga problem here.
Bekah (19:07):
Hmm. It took me a long time. Unfortunately, but also,
in some ways. It was a blessing.
I had people in my life who werepeers but not in my circle and
they would say hey, Becca, I'mkind of worried you know, and of
course what did I do? I just cutthem out of my life because I
(19:29):
didn't want anybody holding up amirror you know? I wasn't ready
for that. So it took me manyyears I lived in and it kind of
you know there were highs andlows and that's why it was so
tricky, right because I was agraduated college you know after
the first you know, the afterthe first semester where I
(19:51):
really got into heavier opiates.
My first semester I came youknow, I think a running I mean I
was ready to go when I had areally rough start at college,
and then I got it together,somehow and by got it together,
I mean, functioning through myaddiction. So it made it more
(20:12):
difficult because there wasn'tmy grades got better somehow I
started managing, managing itbetter. I got really into
writing and excelled at that anddid an independent study. And
that was my, my major. And so asan outsider, you know, you can,
(20:34):
you can say, I'm checking allthe boxes, you know, and you
hear I hear parents say, Oh,well, the grades were good, you
know, the grades were reallygood. So we thought things were
fine. And, you know, the scarything is, that's just it's not
an indicator, you know, ofcourse, it's just not an
indicator, because there was somany other things happening, you
(20:55):
know, did a semester abroad.
And, you know, kept it togetheroverseas for a while, and then I
was able to graduate. And itwasn't until I worked for years
in the restaurant industry, youknow, after college, and it was
just seeking purpose and hittingthat ends. And it wasn't until I
(21:16):
was in my mid 20s. So I got inthe accident when I was 15. And
then not until my mid 20s. Did Iyou know, go to treatment.
Right? So, and I, you know, myparents were really amazing at
being a witness and gentlynudging but not pushing me,
(21:44):
excuse me, they knew that thetiming kind of I think part of
them knew at the time, we had tobe right, I needed to be ready.
They, they intervened many timesprior to me go into wilderness,
but it wasn't until I was like,you know, I need help. You know,
(22:05):
did that actually happen?
Jen (22:08):
And in speaking of your parents and the intervening
stuff, what was that kind ofrelationship? When did they
start kind of noticing thatsomething was not right? And
what do they do about it?
Bekah (22:23):
When I was in college, and I had to go to the emergency
room, because, you know, had acouple, you know, an incident
with taking too much. And my dadwas always I'm taking my dad hat
off, he can talk to me, youknow, what's going on? You know?
And I was just one wouldn't openup at that point. And you know,
(22:44):
my mom, just checking on me, areyou are you okay? Like, what do
you need? And then eventually, Imean, I, I lost, I couldn't pay
for my apartment anymore. Yeah.
So my rent was overdue. And, andI think that was actually where
it started to spiral down orwhere I couldn't pay my rent, I
(23:06):
couldn't keep gas on my car. Sothen I actually moved in with
them. And they were able to bemore of a witness and kind of
nudged me more here and there.
But in a way that wasn't itlooking back that could have put
more pressure on me probably.
Would that have helped? I don'tknow. I don't have an answer for
(23:27):
that. I know, the way that itworked out was perfect. So I
don't really I don't reallythink about how it could have
been done differently. And whatthey did was they were witness
to my, to where I was, and theywere loving, but also had
boundaries with a lot of things.
(23:51):
So, you know, like when I waswhen I had to move back on their
house, they had certain rulesabout things being a mid 20s
living with my parents again. Soof course they had they need to
take rules
Jen (24:01):
and and what were some of those boundaries, given that the
podcast is called unbreakableboundaries. What were some of
those boundaries they had? Andhow well did they do upholding
their boundaries?
Bekah (24:15):
I think it was Abdun flowed, you know, I think based
on how inflammatory I was, atthe time, I think it was hard
when I would get really upset ata boundary. So they were more
communicate with us, you know,if you're going to be late, tell
(24:36):
us where you are and who you'rewith what you're doing. You
know, not to say that thatreally helped kept me from doing
anything, but at least kept ourcommunication better. And so
with the communication beingbetter and open. When the time
came for me to be like, I got aproblem. It was a little bit
easier. Right? You know, thatwasn't such a heavy conversation
(24:59):
because we had been kind ofcommunicating in a more open and
compassionate way during thattime. So when the time came, it
was open and compassionate. Andthey were ready to take action.
So I think they actually had aplan long before actually went
(25:21):
to treatment. But we're kind ofwaiting on the timing. But when
the time came, it was, this is ayou're going once, you know, we
are my, my dad was a very hardworking father. We're a family
of I mean, we all startedworking at the age of 15. Pretty
much. And so we're all very hardworking, we weren't born into
(25:45):
wealth. And so, you know,treatment is financial, the
financial commitment totreatment is a big one. Yeah.
And it's not one that you wantto do over and over again. So I
think they were very intentionalwith the choices that they made.
So sending me to wilderness,which is something that I was
(26:07):
interested in anyway. was on thefront end, this is this is the
only time Mecca and so I kind ofreally embraced it. I didn't you
know, the beginning was very,very difficult. I wanted to
leave it was uncomfortable,actually, let me rewind. I said,
I need to go to detox. And Isaid, I didn't know I'm thinking
(26:29):
about it. Now. I didn't know itwas going to load on us. So I
should correct that. I hadGoogled, I was like, Man, if I
could just escape and go hiking,you know, it'd be fine. You
know, all of those like ideas ofme. If I could only do this,
then I'll be fine. I'll bebetter. Yeah. So there was a
Google search for wildernessrehab on my parent's desktop,
(26:49):
because I was living with themthat they had seen, but didn't
say anything. So when I said Iwas ready to go to detox, I was
like, Yeah, I'm gonna go todetox, and then we'll be done. I
can go home, it'll be over. I'lljust get right. You know, I was
very sick, I was withdrawn. Andso my priority was, let me get
feeling normal. It wasn't let mebe healthy for the rest of my
(27:12):
life. It was, let me be let mefeel better right now what is
going to relieve this horrible,horrible pain that I'm in
physically and emotionally andso I went to medical detox for
five days in upstate New York.
And, you know, they set it up ata wilderness program while I was
there, and I thought I was goinghome, when I left detox, they
(27:33):
picked me up and they said,we've got your phone, you're not
you can't have it. You'regetting on a plane, you're going
to learn us and did my intake at
like, 11 (27:45):
30pm in a wilderness place in North Carolina. I was
so mad, I was able to see myintake picture. It's hilarious.
I'm so mad. So mad, they send itto you,
Jen (28:00):
please do, can I use that, um, I laugh because I can
imagine what it must be like,because at that time, you're
like, you're probably notthinking in terms of, I'm gonna
put everything down forever,you're just like, I'm just I
just I'd need to, to kind ofjust balance back out and back
(28:22):
off a little bit. And out whatthe right balance of living this
normal life is, I just got alittle carried away.
Bekah (28:32):
Just a little carried away. I can come back here,
Jen (28:35):
right? It's not usually like, Oh, I am gonna put
everything down forever.
Especially the, like, the kindof the first go around, I'll say
at least for me what I see a lotof people. It's, it's like, I
just need to find that, thatstrike that balance a little
bit. And, um, so I can imaginewhat it's like to to have these
(29:00):
expectations for yourself, ofgetting out of detox, going home
and being like, I think I'm I'mgonna really start living a
healthy life that involvesprobably just backing off things
a little bit, and then all of asudden, they're thrown into a
wilderness program. And whatthat means is, and you can do a
(29:21):
lot better job of describing theprogram than I can. But for
those out there, basically, it'slike you said, you get thrown
into the woods and you're livingoutside, you're camping, you're
you're out really getting intouch with yourself, probably
for the first time ever.
Bekah (29:44):
And it's interesting process for sure
Jen (29:47):
can be scary and rewarding depending on the mindset of the
person going into it in terms ofwhat they get out of it because
it's like, you do have to get intouch with yourself.
Bekah (29:59):
You Do you have there's nowhere to hide, there's nowhere
to
Jen (30:03):
hide. And that can be an amazing and uncomfortable
journey. So what, tell us alittle bit about that journey of
the wilderness and not hiding?
Bekah (30:16):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. For me, personally, I
don't think anything else wouldhave worked. And I'm pretty
confident that the, that was therecipe for me. I think because
there's no way to be enabledwhen you are in the wilderness.
(30:41):
So you are making choices, I wasmaking choices that were going
to directly impact me and mypeer group, and everybody around
me, if I'm, if there's, if weknow that rain is coming, and
I'm choosing not to, you know,pack my, my gear in a in a dry
bag and get everything set up sothat I'm prepared for the rain,
(31:01):
then I'm gonna get soaking wet,I'm gonna have to live with that
decision for probably a fewdays, and I'm gonna complain
about it. And then, you know, sothe next time I might change
that behavior, I might say,jeez, last time, I was lazy, and
I didn't pack my bag properly, Ithink I'm going to be more
intentional with that, so that Ican feel better the next time
(31:22):
around. So it's really beautifulway to be held accountable, and
have natural consequences thatare safe, you know, in a really
nice, and it's not even, it's acontainer, but it's not a
container, because you havehundreds of 1000s of miles of
littoralis around you, and you,it's not so claustrophobic,
(31:48):
you're moving, you're engagingwith your peers, you have to
engage with your peers in a waythat's team oriented. Everybody
has to carry their own weight.
And if somebody doesn't carrytheir weight, they address it
together as a as a group, youknow, as it's all about grip
culture. So it taught me how towork with my peers in a healthy
(32:09):
way, which is something that Ijust didn't know how to do.
Right? I just knew how to how todo me, and that's it right?
There, me and then
Jen (32:21):
doing a great job of that.
Bekah (32:24):
failing miserably, so. So that's it, really. And that's
why we're so and why I'm sopassionate about the
experiential approach for youngadults. I think that just seeing
young adults working together asa team, and developing a
(32:45):
culture, a healthy culturearound them is just so crucial.
Because it's such a such aunique time, right, to learn how
to engage with your peers, andto learn how to show up in that
way. Well,
Jen (32:56):
and there's a couple of things I want to hone in on this
for the families that arelistening that you said that I
think is hugely important, isyou said the term that I'm going
to now use forever is thenatural consequences, you know,
and it's just, it wasn't someoneelse giving you like,
(33:19):
consequences for your actions,it was just, oh, I actually have
to think about the decisionsthat I'm making. And if I don't,
there are natural consequences.
And a lot of times, I think thatwe feel up until, you know, we
start experiencing things likethat we feel like the world is
(33:40):
out to get us and, and like,we're blaming everyone else for
all of our decisions. You mademe do this. You're treating me
poorly, that cop that had everyright to arrest me, arrested me,
he was just out to get me, youknow, whatever, exactly whatever
(34:00):
it was, and what you're sayingis so important, in terms of the
natural consequences. And thatis where I think a lot of times,
families can sometimesunintentionally intervene in
those natural consequences wherepeople actually say, Oh, wait, I
(34:20):
they did something. They'reliving with me. I told them if
they used that their consequencewould be to not live in my house
anymore. But I don't want themto live on the street. Someone
just keep letting them live withme. But the natural consequence
of that is is that oh, theygotta you know go out and it's
(34:42):
it's more of like what you'resaying is nature kind of held up
a mirror
Bekah (34:48):
for you. Yeah. And I couldn't argue with it. Man,
that was like that was mychoice. Yeah, and
Jen (34:55):
experience of it right, the very essential and what I love
Also that you're saying is howvaluable of learning how to
commune with other peoplelearning how to have
relationships with other peoplethat maybe you got along with
them? Maybe you didn't, it wasreally irrelevant whether you
(35:17):
liked them or not, you still hadto figure out how to work
together with them. Right?
Right. And that is, I mean,important. Yeah, we don't do
this life alone of what I liketo remind a lot of people is
that our as human beings, ourability to survive has been
dependent upon our ability tocommune with one another,
Bekah (35:37):
not so much. And it has
Jen (35:39):
very little to do with substance abuse. But when it
comes to substance abuse, wehave to learn how to live in a
community and how to not to tryto do life by ourselves. And
what's great is that we do havethese recovery communities that
can teach us how to live inlife, but it's really just
teaching us literally how tolive life, you know, in a
(36:01):
healthy and productive sort ofway, because we've been trying
to do it on our own. And likeyou said, while you're taking
care of yourself, it was notvery great. It did not turn out
very well. Right. All right. Sothat experience was really
great. Now, here's anotherreally important question,
because you said a lot about thewilderness program, and that was
(36:23):
the recipe for you. Did doeseveryone that goes through the
wilderness program succeed?
Bekah (36:32):
Well, certainly not. I, you know, I think that it takes
there's different versions of itfor everybody, and certainly not
now. So I mean, it takes acouple times for some people,
Jen (36:45):
right.
Bekah (36:46):
But the thing about it, though, is that I what I see is
that there's always something totake away each time. So a return
to use for me is not a failure,or return to use is I always
tried to imagine, I mean, evenwith our program that we have
now, the outcome might not havebeen what the parents wanted,
(37:09):
sometimes. And our hope Ourultimate hope is that seeds were
planted. And that's the perfectperspective that we have to have
is that seeds were planted, andthey're they're going to think,
at some point moving forward,before they make a decision.
Hmm, I wonder if XYZ is going tohave a different outcome for
whatever reason. And there arenew ways of thinking that are
(37:33):
introduced. And we've got tostart there. And we have to
acknowledge that. Because I seea lot of times whether client
comes out of wilderness anddoesn't, you know, it's not the
outcome that the parents hadhoped or that anybody had
helped, or even what the clienthad helped. Really, yeah, there
is always take away, therealways is. And there's always
(37:56):
value to that experience. Andso, the next time around, it's
gonna stick with them for thenext time they want to get back
on track or try to try it adifferent way.
Jen (38:06):
Yeah. Well, and like you're saying, there's so many seeds
that do get planted when peoplego into either programs or try
the recovery, it may not, theoutcome may not always be
success from the first time. Iknow, for me my relapse. Like
and I don't want to say like, Ialways like to remind people,
I'm not condoning the behaviorsof the relapse, what I'm saying
(38:29):
is that it was essential for meto understand the key points
that I missed in my recovery thefirst time around, right, so
it's like I had, I was missing alot. And I wasn't willing to do
a lot in my earlier stages ofrecovery. And the relapse taught
me exactly what it was that Iwas missing, and where my
(38:50):
willingness really needed to be.
And so for that, I was able toactually be successful, I don't
feel like I could have beensuccessful. The first time
because I just wasn't mentallythere yet. But because I had
that experience, I was able togo back into recovery. So much
more prepared. I kind of knewwhat I needed to do. I was
(39:14):
willing to do and beuncomfortable. And I was like it
was just, it was good. So justbecause someone goes back to
using it's not a hopelessfailure, like you're saying,
seeds or seeds are planted inthat way. And we don't ever
(39:35):
really know what the recipe isfor for each individual person
until they find it forthemselves. And a lot of
decisions come after that. Soyeah,
Bekah (39:48):
yeah. What I also say to parents, too, is you know, hear
parents that are you know,they're now going on or they're
engaging in family programmingat the treatment program and
they hear other options We aresaying, Gosh, you know, my child
has been in treatment 567 timesand and I also want to speak to
(40:09):
the parents whose child is goingfor the first time and let them
know that that's not always thecase, either. It's stuck for me
the first time. Yeah, you know,I haven't experienced a return
to use, you know, in 10 years.
So it's, there's hope that itcould it could be the recipe,
like you said, and it could notbe and I think that the, there
(40:29):
needs to be a, the attachment tothe outcome that everybody has
in mind, no matter what it is,needs to be squashed. Yeah. It
just needs to be a day by day.
Conversation by conversation.
Where are they at today? Whereare we at today? How can we hear
(40:52):
each other and be with eachother? Yeah. I mean, it's so
hard to do, I can imagine it sodifficult to do. Yeah. Because
that outcome is so important. Ifyou just want to be happy, you
know, and
Jen (41:07):
well, and there's the balance between being present.
And then wanting a goal butbeing present within the
outcome. So you can't like youwere saying you can't get
attached to the outcome, becausethen you start setting up some
unrealistic expectations. Andthose can be really dangerous.
(41:30):
When if you're a parent, or afamily member, and you have
these unrealistic expectations,because you think that you
understand how to get to thatoutcome.
Bekah (41:42):
And you don't, right, you can No, no, nobody does,
Jen (41:45):
you can start really saying, Look, this is, this is
not what I was expecting you tobehave like when you got out of
rehab, and put way more pressureon them to achieve this outcome
that seems so daunting andoverwhelming that you forget to
praise them for where they're atin the moment, for where they
(42:08):
are present. And presence iseverything, it's a day by day,
day by day for us who are inrecovery, it's a day by day for
the parents. So if you get soattached to the outcome, like
you were saying it can actuallycreate a lot of false or
unrealistic expectations on theloved one that ends up putting
unintentionally more pressure onthem to be the person you're not
(42:31):
ready to be yet.
Bekah (42:33):
I know. And I see it all the time, even now. There are
certain markers that I know I'mgoing I'm a parent myself, I can
see the pitfalls of how we getinto what we think is healthy
expectation, which is doing goodin school achieving, you know,
(42:55):
goals that I wish that I hadachieved when I was a kid. And
so it's very, very deeplyingrained into being a parent.
Because we want so badly for ourchildren to succeed. I want my
children to succeed. And it'salways this balance of me,
quieting my internal voice thatsays, I wish I had that when I
(43:20):
was a child, or this worked forme when I was a child. Let me I
hope I want this to work forthem now. Yeah. And it could be
anything from their careerchoice. down to what kind of,
you know what kind of vehiclethey have, or how they made what
they're, it's, it's everychoice. So when I see parents, I
(43:42):
really struggle when parents arepushing to reenter college at
the same pace as they were onenight because sometimes they're
using them to intervene whilethe child was in college. Yeah.
And so it's like, okay, we wentto rehab, let's wash your hands.
Now we can get back to college.
It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,hold on, like, their major
(44:04):
coping skill that they had theonly one they had, which was
drugs and alcohol is now gone.
Yeah, let's like rethink howwe're going to help them show up
in a different way. And that isgoing to take a lived experience
of handling many, many crisesthroughout the day and
(44:24):
navigating through those beforewe're even ready to say, let's
get you back to school or doingthese things that we originally
had in mind.
Jen (44:31):
Well, and I think that comes with the misunderstanding
that the drugs are the problemor the alcohol is the problem.
And when and that that is likeoh well, let's just put the
drugs and the alcohol down, theneverything can go back to normal
failing to understand that it'slike well wait. They were trying
(44:52):
to satisfy a need through drugsand alcohol. It did not work.
But now we have that back andstart understanding what it is
that they need. How can we getthem to the point where they
understand that they need whatthey need and have to ask for
(45:13):
it. So that when they go intothe world back into college,
they don't overwhelm themselves,because they haven't been able
to ask for the things that theyneed. Like, I had some time
clean when I reentered back intocollege. And it was freakin
scary and overwhelming. And Ihad to use everything that I
(45:37):
learned in recovery. And I hadlike recovery people, I had to
call people, I had to be able tocommunicate what I was
experiencing when I was goingthrough to get through going to
college. As someone that had, Ithink I had like two years clean
when I went back in. And it wasa struggle, and I needed those
(45:58):
two years prior was hard. Yeah.
So, um, so that's somethingthat's like, I agree. And before
because I know we're coming up alittle bit on time, but you have
so much valuable experience onhelping families and not just
(46:19):
helping families, but their,their kids, because you own your
own business in in doing thiswork, and I would love for you
to share with my audience, whatis your company? What do they
do? And how do you help.
Bekah (46:38):
So we have a program for young adult women called Ember
lodge in Asheville, NorthCarolina, and we are a program
for young adult women who'vesuccessfully completed treatment
who are transitioning into thereal world with primarily
substance use disorder. And so Iguess my experience leaving
(46:59):
wilderness was, I left Igraduated, that was the thing
that I couldn't wait to do, Icouldn't wait to get out, I
couldn't wait to get back tolife. Got out want to go right
back in. Like with my tailbetween my legs,
Jen (47:16):
first of all, that's a huge sign that something really
landed. So if you're a parentout there, if your kid is scared
to leave rehab, or they don'twant to be like, back into the
real world, that's a really goodsign. They should be scared to
death. So you got you're scared?
Bekah (47:35):
Yeah. I know. And, you know, it's so interesting. So I
mean, I was a out brag, um, Iwas an all star student at
treatment, I was, you know,wanted I was I wanted to do by
the last couple of weeks, Ireally just wanted to achieve
and I wanted to, you know, Ithought for a while I was like,
(47:56):
I want to get into this field ofwork. This is so great. And so I
left, I left treatment, and Igot to the world. And I was
like, Wait, treatment wasn't whyI use the world is why I use. So
how do I, how do I do this. Andso I was in a structured
community that saved my butt.
And I and I hear parents a lot.
(48:21):
They say, we've spent so muchmoney on treatment, you know, I
don't know that we can only do acouple of months of aftercare,
continuing care, sober living,transitional living, extended
care, whatever, whatever thetherapist is recommending, we
can only afford a couple ofmonths. And it's, I get that.
(48:42):
And I know it's a financialcommitment. But for me, it is
protecting the investment oftreatment, because you don't
want to go back to treatment. Weall everybody agree, we don't
want the child to go back totreatment, right? And so the
longer that we can stretch thatyear after treatment, eight
months, nine months aftertreatment, do it, you know, do
(49:04):
it and put do whatever you canto make that happen. Because
this is where we practice. Youknow, treatment is has its place
for uncovering the root of ourproblems, sifting through why we
are the way that we are why wethink the way we think. And then
the world is where we are finetuning. Okay, now that I know
(49:28):
all this stuff about the waythat I think how am I going to
live with that? Yeah, how am Igoing to like, get a job and do
these things that I've alwayswanted to do and achieve and
without hitting dead ends ofhaving ill horrible coping
strategies. So the hope withcontinuing care and what we do
at Ember Lodge is to be awitness to that process and a a
(49:52):
immersive community and when Isay immersive, I mean, we are a
real life setting for clients. Ihave to get a job They have to
go to school or go to school, wehave to see them navigate these
triggers and, and get throughthe other side. Yeah, we're
there to support them. So we'rehighly structured, we have a lot
(50:12):
of programming. And we reallyaim to support our clients until
they get past their year ofrecovery. Whenever brought them
to treatment. It's so it's sointeresting that first year is
just so it's so crucial. Youknow, we do the first birth,
they still are the firstChristmas over the first
anniversary of loved ones,death, sober. All of those
(50:35):
things we're getting through forthe first time. And there's just
so much merit to that. Yes. Andthen we get through the first
year, and we say, Okay, I thinkI can do another year. Yeah, I
think I can do this again. Andthen that just keeps growing and
building and growing andbuilding. And before I know it
10 years have gone by.
Jen (50:55):
I know, right?
Bekah (50:56):
And you think oh gosh, I'm just getting old now.
Jen (51:00):
Right? You're like, man, wow. Um, and that's like the
amazing thing. And I thinkyou're so on point with that
first year being the year oflike, having to actually learn
how to get through those firstbig milestones, and do it, you
know, in a clean, sober sort ofway, and having people around
(51:22):
you that can support you. Andlike you said, you're you're an
extremely like immersive, moreso than something like, you
know, there's like threequarters, houses, halfway
houses, yes, they're lessexpensive, but they're also less
immersive, they're less, theydon't like build on the
foundation as much as you dofrom out of rehab, like, you
(51:45):
guys really build on thatfoundation. And that's what I
love about your program and theextensiveness that you provide
in that transitional period of,of all of the, the the people
that you have at your disposal.
So like you have like therapistsand you have like, all of these
things, a lot of the other likesober livings or halfway houses
(52:07):
or three quarter houses,whatever it is, they don't, it's
kind of a little bit of theblind leading the blind. That's
how I look at it. At least inin, you know, my eyes. But I
think what you offer is more ofa shared wisdom community.
Bekah (52:30):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Jen (52:31):
That's what I like about it program.
Bekah (52:34):
Yeah, and I do so we're, we're moderately priced. You
know, we're at as a parent, andas a person who's going to be,
you know, a stakeholder who'sgonna be funding the young
adults process. Remember, lessexpensive means less services,
(52:55):
more expensive means morestaffing, more accountability.
It's pretty simple math. Youknow, if I have a staff that's
there, 24/7, that staff needs toget paid to be there if I have
therapists who come and so theamount of what I would encourage
parents to do when they'reembedding programs is ask what
the daily or the weekly schedulelooks like, ask what the
(53:15):
programming is, are they meetingwith? Leadership Team are what
are the what are the touchpoints? Like? What are they
checking in with clients? So forus, we have like morning group
and night group. We have a lotof different lenses and see them
through, they do a gardeninggroup cooking class. They do an
on site, 12, step yoga, thingslike that. So we do we see them
(53:36):
through many different lenses,because I guarantee you the way
a client can show up a morninggroup can only last so long, and
then by the time yoga comesaround, they're going to be a
totally different person. Andthen they're we're going to see
them through that lens. Yeah.
Which is so important, becausethe same goes for the clinical
space, right? So I can showwhoever I want for an hour with
my therapist, right? For mytherapist for an hour. But when
(53:59):
there's a staff member, they'reexpecting client to make their
bed and checking on that andchecking on Are they on time for
morning group? Are they showingup to other groups on time? Have
they met their meetings thatweek have they completed Chapter
One of the guidebook their questto work, their journaling? These
are all things that we'reholding clients highly
accountable for and thataccountability. And the clear
(54:21):
cut goals, for me is like themagic recipe for young adults,
being really clear with yourgoals, and then being
accountable and following up onthose goals. And really there
that's what young adults I thinkwant, they want to know what
work needs to be done and theywant that to be clear. And so
and we do that, we do that anumber lodge we have a guide
(54:43):
book that they follow so theyknow exactly what to work on.
Jen (54:47):
So and I think that's that's hugely important is to
kind of be able to set up oflike, well, this is like, you
know, phase one, phase two,phase three. Sometimes like you
get out of rehab if you don'thave that kind Have a community
that support that, you know, allof those things and have people
teach you how to use differentcoping strategies how to find
(55:08):
joy again, one, because you'redoing a lot of these things, for
people to be able to find whatthey reconnect with in a healthy
way. So, you know, yoga, you'rereconnecting with their physical
body, their mental body, their,you know, all of that stuff,
you're trying to provide adifferent ways of saying, Oh,
(55:30):
you really want to get into thegardening, you really want to
get into all of these things,these are healthy coping ways of
re inspiring yourself to bringyour joy back, because we didn't
get clean or sober, to struggleforever one, and want to be
happy. And we have to know thatthings make us happy, and you're
providing those kinds of outletsto teach people how to be happy
(55:54):
again, even when they areunprovable, but how to how to
really do that. And so like Ireally, that's, that's one of
the things that I think is sovaluable about your program that
some of the like some of theother programs, and I don't want
to take away from the otherprograms, but your program is
providing a lot more of a deeperbridge for people. And I think
that's essential. The first yearis having a deeper bridge. And I
(56:18):
think that's a lot of times inthis addiction community where
we lack we don't get a lot ofout of rehab, that kind of
bridges that they need. I didn'tand I floundered a lot. And it
was a lot more traumatic, I hadto spend years of of getting
over the trauma of the firstyear to be able to like move
(56:41):
forward in my life. And it was,it wasn't possible, it just
meant that I had to focus a loton getting over the trauma of
the first year of recovery. Andthat was right. And,
Bekah (56:54):
and young adults need support on life skills, right.
So if we're not teaching ouryoung adults, how to take their
medication, how to call theirpsychiatrist how to manage their
time, then we're failing thembecause when they move out,
they're going to be failing themin a way that not giving them
(57:15):
independent tools, the tools tobe independent, because mom and
dad want the child to beindependent, the child wants to
be independent. If they don'tlearn the skills to be
independent, as soon as theymove out, for a complete
treatment, it's gonna be Mom andDad, can you call and do this?
Can you take care of Where's mycar and my car insurance? My
phone bill? All those things,right? We need to teach our
adults how to have those skills,just the basic core life skills.
(57:39):
Yeah,
Jen (57:40):
and here's in and we'll, we'll wrap up with this. But
here's the most important thing,too, is that as a young adult,
it can't be the familiesanymore, teaching them how to be
an adult. Because that gets intoway too many complicated family
dynamics, they will never learnhow to be an adult when it hit
that adult age. Parents cannotno longer teach kids how their
(58:03):
kids have Yes. And they need sono. And
Bekah (58:06):
I told them, yes, I told them that the parent will be
like, Oh, well, should I addressthat? Or no, let us be the bad
people love her. Just love herright now. Let her be the pin.
And then let us there's too muchemotional history for you to
hold this, to do this. And yeah,so let us do that there's so
(58:27):
much value in having a nonfamily member holding the client
accountable. Because there's noemotional history there. Yes. So
it's a clean slate, oh, wait,that means we can, that means we
can hold them real accountable.
Jen (58:41):
And they need that. And they need that and they don't
need their parents. Because it'slike, then all of a sudden the
recovery comes to be against theparents more and more, you know,
and that's really an importantdistinction is going if they're
so busy, just trying to arguewith you, they're not focused so
much on what they really need todo for themselves and themselves
(59:04):
accountable. So I think whatyou're doing is like, hugely
important, and you have theknowledge and wisdom to share
with that, that it's not so muchthe leading the blind, it's the
creating a community for foreverfor your support. So I just want
to really, thank you so much fortaking the time out and doing
(59:25):
this. I think this is going tobe hugely beneficial for so many
people out there. And one lastthing I want to ask for you
before we finally wrap up iswhat would you tell the parents
on how they can best help whatare some of the boundary what
what the one main boundary thatfamilies can really do to
(59:46):
support their loved one?
Bekah (59:49):
Hmm, one main boundaries that families can do to support
their loved one that I face,over and over Again, is if the
parent believes that the programand the professionals know, you
(01:00:10):
know what that what they'veseen, to have ideal outcomes.
And then if they trust thatprogram that hold the boundary
that your child needs tosuccessfully complete the
program, before earning, maybenot earning but before coming
back home to live again, ortrust the program, I've talked
(01:00:32):
to so many parents who, it'sshocking how many parents go
behind my back. Because I'm soashamed, they know that. So they
will get the apartment way toosoon, they'll give the car away
too soon. And I, I say, I honoryour decision as a family and
(01:00:54):
that, you know, it's my job tohold a mirror and say, This is
not a good choice, which is whythey avoid me. But but then
we're talking again, a fewmonths later, a Becca, you know,
would you have any suggestionson what we can do that she came
home and and then I just lovethem through it? Right? My
(01:01:14):
biggest, my biggest suggestionis to trust the therapist, the
professionals who have seenthis, and try to step away and
be objective. And yeah, andreally think these decisions
through and listen to theprofessionals. And if you
believe your child shouldcomplete a program, and if you
believe it is a program that youtrust, then your boundary is we
(01:01:39):
love you, we hear you will talkabout this, you know, maybe when
you successfully complete theprogram that you're in, yeah,
and that's it. Yeah.
Jen (01:01:46):
And and, and just be a broken record. Yeah. And what
you're speaking to is the factthat the kids are well
consistently, when they getuncomfortable, want to throw the
program under the bus, they howhorrible it is, and say all of
these things that all thesepeople are doing. And then the
parents go all like mama andpapa bear on exactly intervening
(01:02:09):
way too much when it's reallylike, Hey, you gotta listen.
Like these people are not doinganything to you. They're doing
everything for you, because theyknow what you need. And that's
what you're that's, that's sucha good point of going trust the
programs that they've been doingthis for a long time, you've
been doing this a long time, youknow, the needs, and you also
(01:02:30):
know how manipulative,
Bekah (01:02:33):
right? And I'm not, I'm not in any way, saying be naive,
right? aware of what's going on.
But also probably pause andthink hmm, and then and then,
you know, call people talk tothe program director talk to the
therapist get other perspective,when I see is when the
communication gets broken. Andit's just and when they get to
Africa, believe me, they'regoing to have cell phones,
(01:02:55):
parents, they're going to havecell phones that they're going
to be calling you on. So whenany little thing happens. The
conversation is, have you triedtalking to a therapist about
that? Have you tried doing this?
It's redirecting your child tosource? Yeah, because our job is
to help them source and find andhelp them find what's gonna work
(01:03:17):
for them to get through it.
Because you're rescuing themand, and trying to fix their
problem for them is just gettingback into that old pattern.
Jen (01:03:27):
It is it is and you're right. And I'm gonna have all of
Becca's information and Biladand all that stuff on my show
notes. I really encourage youguys to go check it out with the
website real quick. Emberlodge.com. Is that
Bekah (01:03:41):
correct? Yep. www dot Ember lodge.com. Yep. And I'll
have
Jen (01:03:45):
I'll have a link over to that on my show notes. And
again, thank you for for sure.
Thanks for having me. And thankyou for listening to this
podcast. If you want to listento more or find more information
out about this podcast, and moreof what I do to help families
you can go check out my page atunbreakable boundaries
podcast.com. It's full of othergreat podcasts just like this
one and other great resources tolook through. And please
(01:04:07):
remember to share this podcastwith others you never know who
may need to hear this people areoften hiding their battles in
this arena. And sharing is agreat way to provide this
valuable resource or person youmay not even know who needs it.
And don't forget, there isalways hope, even when things
seem the most hopeless. Thanksagain for listening to the
unbreakable boundaries podcast,I wanted to share a little bit
(01:04:29):
about the new program that wasactually born from my early
recovery series that I did as apart of this podcast. So as you
can hear in many of the episodesthat I dive into people with
that early recovery is reallymessy. It's confusing. People
have a hard time navigatingthemselves through the various
situations that they face, suchas the different triggers that
(01:04:50):
they're they face theoverwhelming emotions, how to
navigate through some of thosecomplicated family dynamics and
how To find the right supportsystem for themselves, and so
many more things. So I didcreate the early recovery
program that helps people whoare entering into recovery, know
how to navigate themselvesthrough those very, very
(01:05:14):
confusing and overwhelming firstmonths. It also helps the
families who want to supportthem and knowing what to do. So
even if you are listening tothis, as the family member and
your loved one isn't quite intorecovery, yet, they may be soon
and you can be better preparedon how to deal with them as they
enter into that early recoveryprocess. Because a lot of times
(01:05:36):
the red flags that we think arered flags are actually a really,
really normal part of the earlyrecovery process. And we can
unintentionally put too manyunrealistic expectations on
them. So this is a great thingfor families to go through as
well. And you can learn moreabout this program by going to
the early recovery program.com.
(01:05:59):
I really, really hope thateveryone check that out is a
great resource. I made it sothat it could be very
inexpensive. And it's just it'sit's a lot of my own journey and
what people experience so I hopeyou go check that out the early
recovery program.com
Welcome back to the unbreakable boundaries Podcast
(00:02):
with your hosts myself, JenniferManeely. In today's episode, I
got a chance to talk with a goodfriend of mine, Becca who owns a
recovery community. For youngadult women called Ember Lodge,
I highly recommend you checkingthem out links are in my show
notes. Her journey into how shegot into this business of
(00:23):
helping other women started withher own journey, which we
discuss quite a bit in thisepisode. She has been sober
since 2010. And she has beensince getting back what
addiction took away from her.
She has worked in the recoveryfield in many different areas,
before she started her ownorganization, including direct
(00:44):
care at multiple primarytreatment programs. She's worked
in psychiatric unit as acertified nursing assistant and
more recently, with clients andfamilies as an admission
counselor for a young adultprogram. And now she shares her
wisdom and helps other youngadult women transition
themselves into the recoveryjourney through her own
(01:06):
organization, Ember Lodge. Andnow, I love to give a big
welcome to my friend who's sokindly and generous, sharing her
journey with us, Becca, Becca,thank you so much for agreeing
to do this. I know you have somuch going on in your life, you
(01:27):
own your own company, thingshave been really crazy. And I
can totally understand the thetime that it takes. So I really
appreciate you coming on, andbeing willing to talk to my
audience, because I know youhave so many good things for the
families, for other recoveringpeople. You're just an amazing
person. So I appreciate this,this opportunity for you and I
(01:51):
to to have this greatconversation. I know we're
getting ready to have.
Bekah (01:56):
Yeah, thanks, John. Glad to be here. grateful for the
opportunity. So thank you. Andso
Jen (02:02):
where I always kind of want to get started with people is
one I didn't want to start alittle bit love, like your
journey your growing up. Whatkind of family did you grow up
in? And and how did you even getstarted because you own your own
recovery community houses whereyou really support other
(02:24):
recovering people. And I thinkit's always great when people
like you do that, because youreally understand the needs of
what a person in recovery needs.
And so I think it's just amazingwhen people have their own
journeys and battles withsubstance abuse, and then
dedicate their lives to servingothers. So I want to get into
kind of your start of that intohow did you get into doing what
(02:50):
you're doing?
Bekah (02:53):
Yeah, happy to share. So I'm originally from upstate New
York, really small towngraduated with about 64 people
in my high school. So reallyhappy childhood. Like I said,
I'm one of four kids. And I'mthe youngest. So my dad worked
(03:14):
really, really hard. My mom wasa stay at home mom and have a
lot of really happy memoriesfrom my childhood. We never went
without we have all of ourfamily was close by
grandparents. And so we'repretty tight knit Italian
Catholic Italian family. So Ithink you are familiar with that
(03:38):
story of Catholic. So like,everybody kind of knows that,
that story. So a lot of youknow, big family gatherings and
really tighten that. Yeah, verytraditional. But I, you know, I
(03:59):
can't say that I always feltreally secure in who I was. And
I think that as an adolescentand young adult, I think it kind
of was exposed more just witheverything that comes along with
that age. I was in a verytraumatic accident when I was
(04:19):
15, which nearly ended my lifeand put me in the ICU and it was
in a coma on you know, got mylast last rites from priest and
my family was pretty much set,you know, saying goodbye to me.
So I think that just, you know,that the combination of that
(04:43):
trauma and also that time in mylife of transition of being in
transitioning from adolescent toyoung adults and you know, all
the things that are the bigfeelings that kind of come along
with that were a perfect stormfor me and no one that was in
the hospital for, you know, amonth or so I was introduced to
morphine and IV morphine. Sofrom a young age I was
(05:06):
introduced opiates. And that'skind of what I think really
began my journey with opiateswas that incident when I was 15?
So I was relearning how to walkin, in trying to fit into my
social group in high school andthe drugs were really
(05:28):
accessible. Definitely.
Jen (05:30):
Right. Well, and that's kind of be a we're like, not, I
don't want to say weird, butjust a unique experience as a 15
year old girl, when we're justtrying to figure life out
already. And something happens.
It can really, I couldn'timagine seeing, like, I know
what I was, like, when I was 15.
(05:52):
Right? And it's like, yeah, itwas hard enough as it isn't like
this being a 15 year old femaleis traumatic. And, and having to
really relearn all of the basicsof life, again, can probably
make you feel very separate andisolated in that way. Because
(06:13):
it's like, who could? Who aroundyou could possibly know you're
going through at that time? So,um, so I guess the a good
question would be, what what wasyour friend group, like, at that
time, when you were trying torelearn all this stuff.
Bekah (06:36):
So I hadn't, you know, my best friend who was beside me
for everything, I think that itwas really traumatic for her,
and she's still my best friendto this day, we still talk
daily. Um, so, but my peer groupoutside, you know, we were, I
was still kind of finding myfooting, just like every other
15 year old, you know, you don'twant to be different, you want
(06:58):
to be accepted. And thensomething big happens. And I was
kind of under the microscope ina way that I didn't want to be.
And so naturally, I think itcaused me to retreat and an
isolate and maybe act out inways that I wouldn't, wouldn't
have, because it was rooted in atrauma and uncertainty. And, you
(07:19):
know, they don't really thinkabout the impact from a medical
standpoint of discharging a 15year old child, you know, as a
child with copious amounts ofopiates. Yeah, they just don't
really think about that. Backthen they didn't think about
that. I think they think aboutit more now. But at that time,
(07:40):
there wasn't, you know, a followup plan of, you know, checking
in on me, you know, my mentalhealth, how the trauma impacted
me. You know, I was gettingprescriptions for pain
medications very frequently. AndI kind of learned that I had
something that other peoplewanted, which was right. I
(08:02):
remember, I remember pulling outmy medication. And somebody
said, What's that? And I waslike, oh, people are interested
in this. And suddenly, I havesomething that that other people
want, which was powerful, Iguess, at that age, especially
for some, especially forsomebody who wants to fit in,
you know, Oh, yeah.
Jen (08:23):
So and So how long were you prescribe this medication? And
when it and when did you stoptaking the medication as
prescribed?
Bekah (08:40):
Now, the timeline is a little bit hazy, because I kind
of was starting to smoke pot twoalongside it. And it continued,
continued until, I mean, for, atleast the year following the
acts, and then I wouldintermittently be able to get
(09:01):
medication. I mean, they justhad to look at my X rays and see
my spinal fusion and all thethings and they'd be like, yeah,
here, we were to thisprescription, you know. And so
when I went to college, it wasnatural that I mean, things were
just so much more accessiblethere. Right, all different
types of peer groups and peoplewho are into all different types
(09:24):
of things, and I could exploremyself more and, you know,
looked for other wounded people,I guess, to associate with and I
found that I, you know, I founda group that I fit in with when
I got to college, and it wasn'tnecessarily the best choice. I'm
(09:48):
not saying that it was my peersthat were responsible for my
actions, but I chose to engagein relationships that you know,
were founded on principles thatI think kind of allowed the the
(10:09):
addiction to grow, if that makessense. Oh, yeah.
Jen (10:12):
And I think, you know, for the families that are out there
listening, this is somethingthat they really have a struggle
with in understanding that wehave a tendency to gravitate to
what you said you, you went toseek out wounded people in your,
(10:33):
and maybe it was a very, at thattime, it was probably very
unconscious. And like, yeah, nowwe can see it for what it is
2020 as healthy productivemembers of society again, we're
like, Dude, I really like, youknow, pick some really horrible
people in my life. But at thetime, it was more of, at least
(10:57):
for me, it was just like, it's,it's like a magnetism. It's like
we resonated with each other, wefelt connected, even in that
unhealthy way. And I think forfamilies out there, what's
really hard for them to see isthat their loved ones have
(11:18):
something that they'regravitating to. So it's not the
people around them fault thatthey're behaving in such a way.
It's what is, it's, it'ssomething inside of us that is
we need to feel connected. Andthis is who we happen to feel.
(11:39):
And right. It's like I hear allthe time, like families will be
like, Oh, if they would justdrop that boyfriend or that
girlfriend, and they're causingall these problems? Well, it's
like, well, right, if that's whothey're gravitating to,
Bekah (11:53):
that's exactly true. And that's what who I wanted to
attract. And I'm gonna guessactually, I know, if my trauma
had been, you know, moreaddressed prior to entering
college, my self esteem wouldhave been different. And I
probably would have attracteddifferent people or invited
(12:14):
different people into my life,because I felt different about
myself. Yeah. Does that makesense? Oh, yeah. So I think
that, really, it was, it wasvery crucial that I addressed
the trauma. You know, before Ididn't even heal myself.
Jen (12:32):
Oh, absolutely. And I think that's the other hard thing to
really understand too, as, wedon't always get to know as a 15
year old, how to ask for what weneed. Right? We get to know at
the time how that's going toimpact us 1015 years down the
(12:54):
road. And all of the beliefsystems that that moment is
creating, we don't we're justliving our lives, and we're just
trying to fit in and belong andbe normal, quote, unquote,
normal, it's not have thematurity level at that age to
go, oh, like, I'm really dealingwith this emotionally, and I
(13:16):
need you to come help me. And,and so it's, it's one of those
things where it's like, we haveto listen to our teenagers, I
guess, or trauma, like asadults, we need to be paying
attention to some of thesethings that are going on, and
know how to interpret the datathat we're given. Because we're
(13:38):
the ones on the on the adultside of things now, that can be
the emotionally mature people.
So you know, the doctors, theparents, that all these things,
they're the ones that have tokind of go, I really think that
we need to address the emotionalneeds of a very immature
teenager. And so that'ssomething that is like I have
(13:59):
yet to meet a 15 year old thatknows how to ask for what they
need, because they don't writethey need, we know what they
write. We just don't
Bekah (14:11):
so the things that we grab are really probably not the
best things but to like thethings that are close by letter
accessible.
Jen (14:19):
Whatever is accessible, you know, whether it's emotional
needs that are unhealthy whetherit's substances that make us
feel whole inside that keep thatdarkness at bay, a little bit
um, that whatever it is, it'slike as as young adults we don't
(14:41):
i don't know i just like as ahigh schooler, there was just no
way I could convey my what wasgoing on with me and the
isolation that I felt thedarkness that I felt the things
that I was grabbing on to andfeeding the darkness so I
thought that I was resonatingwith With material. So like,
(15:02):
when I was in high school I, I,this was way before, I'm going
to share a little bit aboutmyself, probably too much, but
it's okay. I was really intolike death and vampires before
they were cooled like Twilightdidn't exist, right? These were
like not, but I was really intothe darkness of things. And what
(15:23):
I didn't understand at that timewas that it was feeding it. I
just thought I was with it. Andso I didn't really understand
that. And I think that a lot oftimes people like us has a
tendency to be the darkness. Andwhile we're thinking we're
resonating with it.
Bekah (15:44):
Oh, for sure, you know, and I had this, I have this idea
that the darkness was what wasmaking me creative and unique
and different. And so I kind ofcome to this identity of being
in my degree is in writing, andI kind of kind of clung to this
identity that I needed to betortured, soul, like a tormented
(16:05):
soul, you know, that in order tocreate, I had to be really in
touch with that with that part.
And I think that's completelytrue. Because, you know, I was I
was told when I greatest thingsthat I was told about that part
of me is that it's also a verydark place is also a very
fertile place. But that doesn'tmean that I need to live there,
right. So it took me a while tolearn that it's part of me that
(16:30):
I can accept that I can tapinto, but it doesn't make me who
I am. It doesn't make me acreative person. It helps me
it's one of the components thatmakes me who I am. And I can
kind of get out of thatacknowledge that part and get
out of it. And kind of be thewho I always actually imagined
(16:53):
that I could be right. Yeah. Ithink living in the darkness and
in feeding that is kind of asuch a slippery slope. And
that's exactly where I was. Iwas just living in a very grim
outlook of purpose and reallydidn't see much of a point.
Jen (17:16):
Yeah. Yeah,
Bekah (17:17):
anything. Yeah,
Jen (17:19):
it does start it starts to feed that, like, you know, why
am I even here? Like, I know,for me, I got to have a suicidal
place. Although I didn't have Ididn't want to necessarily at
(17:39):
times I, I wanted to killmyself. But it was more of like,
I kind of just wish a bus or acliff. I would like drive off a
cliff one day or something wouldhappen. Because there was just
no future because there was nopoint in the world was so dark
and gray anyway, and you know,all of that. And so it for me,
(18:03):
like I there was just that thatconstant. Every time I would
look at someone something in theback of my mind. I'm like, I
just I think I just either needto go into the psych ward, or
I'm going to snap one day andcrazy crap is going to happen.
And you know, I'm going to go ona like killing spree us when I
(18:27):
thought it was like death bypolice. That's what I envisioned
and so many ways. Um, but so foryou. When you went off to
college in you were resonatingand seeking out these unhealthy
people and feeding youraddiction. When would you say it
(18:51):
got to the point maybe this wasafter college? I'm not sure your
timeline. But when would you saythat you found that you really
started having, noticing that itwas an issue. Like you were
like, I think I think I'm havinga problem here.
Bekah (19:07):
Hmm. It took me a long time. Unfortunately, but also,
in some ways. It was a blessing.
I had people in my life who werepeers but not in my circle and
they would say hey, Becca, I'mkind of worried you know, and of
course what did I do? I just cutthem out of my life because I
(19:29):
didn't want anybody holding up amirror you know? I wasn't ready
for that. So it took me manyyears I lived in and it kind of
you know there were highs andlows and that's why it was so
tricky, right because I was agraduated college you know after
the first you know, the afterthe first semester where I
(19:51):
really got into heavier opiates.
My first semester I came youknow, I think a running I mean I
was ready to go when I had areally rough start at college,
and then I got it together,somehow and by got it together,
I mean, functioning through myaddiction. So it made it more
(20:12):
difficult because there wasn'tmy grades got better somehow I
started managing, managing itbetter. I got really into
writing and excelled at that anddid an independent study. And
that was my, my major. And so asan outsider, you know, you can,
(20:34):
you can say, I'm checking allthe boxes, you know, and you
hear I hear parents say, Oh,well, the grades were good, you
know, the grades were reallygood. So we thought things were
fine. And, you know, the scarything is, that's just it's not
an indicator, you know, ofcourse, it's just not an
indicator, because there was somany other things happening, you
(20:55):
know, did a semester abroad.
And, you know, kept it togetheroverseas for a while, and then I
was able to graduate. And itwasn't until I worked for years
in the restaurant industry, youknow, after college, and it was
just seeking purpose and hittingthat ends. And it wasn't until I
(21:16):
was in my mid 20s. So I got inthe accident when I was 15. And
then not until my mid 20s. Did Iyou know, go to treatment.
Right? So, and I, you know, myparents were really amazing at
being a witness and gentlynudging but not pushing me,
(21:44):
excuse me, they knew that thetiming kind of I think part of
them knew at the time, we had tobe right, I needed to be ready.
They, they intervened many timesprior to me go into wilderness,
but it wasn't until I was like,you know, I need help. You know,
(22:05):
did that actually happen?
Jen (22:08):
And in speaking of your parents and the intervening
stuff, what was that kind ofrelationship? When did they
start kind of noticing thatsomething was not right? And
what do they do about it?
Bekah (22:23):
When I was in college, and I had to go to the emergency
room, because, you know, had acouple, you know, an incident
with taking too much. And my dadwas always I'm taking my dad hat
off, he can talk to me, youknow, what's going on? You know?
And I was just one wouldn't openup at that point. And you know,
(22:44):
my mom, just checking on me, areyou are you okay? Like, what do
you need? And then eventually, Imean, I, I lost, I couldn't pay
for my apartment anymore. Yeah.
So my rent was overdue. And, andI think that was actually where
it started to spiral down orwhere I couldn't pay my rent, I
(23:06):
couldn't keep gas on my car. Sothen I actually moved in with
them. And they were able to bemore of a witness and kind of
nudged me more here and there.
But in a way that wasn't itlooking back that could have put
more pressure on me probably.
Would that have helped? I don'tknow. I don't have an answer for
(23:27):
that. I know, the way that itworked out was perfect. So I
don't really I don't reallythink about how it could have
been done differently. And whatthey did was they were witness
to my, to where I was, and theywere loving, but also had
boundaries with a lot of things.
(23:51):
So, you know, like when I waswhen I had to move back on their
house, they had certain rulesabout things being a mid 20s
living with my parents again. Soof course they had they need to
take rules
Jen (24:01):
and and what were some of those boundaries, given that the
podcast is called unbreakableboundaries. What were some of
those boundaries they had? Andhow well did they do upholding
their boundaries?
Bekah (24:15):
I think it was Abdun flowed, you know, I think based
on how inflammatory I was, atthe time, I think it was hard
when I would get really upset ata boundary. So they were more
communicate with us, you know,if you're going to be late, tell
(24:36):
us where you are and who you'rewith what you're doing. You
know, not to say that thatreally helped kept me from doing
anything, but at least kept ourcommunication better. And so
with the communication beingbetter and open. When the time
came for me to be like, I got aproblem. It was a little bit
easier. Right? You know, thatwasn't such a heavy conversation
(24:59):
because we had been kind ofcommunicating in a more open and
compassionate way during thattime. So when the time came, it
was open and compassionate. Andthey were ready to take action.
So I think they actually had aplan long before actually went
(25:21):
to treatment. But we're kind ofwaiting on the timing. But when
the time came, it was, this is ayou're going once, you know, we
are my, my dad was a very hardworking father. We're a family
of I mean, we all startedworking at the age of 15. Pretty
much. And so we're all very hardworking, we weren't born into
(25:45):
wealth. And so, you know,treatment is financial, the
financial commitment totreatment is a big one. Yeah.
And it's not one that you wantto do over and over again. So I
think they were very intentionalwith the choices that they made.
So sending me to wilderness,which is something that I was
(26:07):
interested in anyway. was on thefront end, this is this is the
only time Mecca and so I kind ofreally embraced it. I didn't you
know, the beginning was very,very difficult. I wanted to
leave it was uncomfortable,actually, let me rewind. I said,
I need to go to detox. And Isaid, I didn't know I'm thinking
(26:29):
about it. Now. I didn't know itwas going to load on us. So I
should correct that. I hadGoogled, I was like, Man, if I
could just escape and go hiking,you know, it'd be fine. You
know, all of those like ideas ofme. If I could only do this,
then I'll be fine. I'll bebetter. Yeah. So there was a
Google search for wildernessrehab on my parent's desktop,
(26:49):
because I was living with themthat they had seen, but didn't
say anything. So when I said Iwas ready to go to detox, I was
like, Yeah, I'm gonna go todetox, and then we'll be done. I
can go home, it'll be over. I'lljust get right. You know, I was
very sick, I was withdrawn. Andso my priority was, let me get
feeling normal. It wasn't let mebe healthy for the rest of my
(27:12):
life. It was, let me be let mefeel better right now what is
going to relieve this horrible,horrible pain that I'm in
physically and emotionally andso I went to medical detox for
five days in upstate New York.
And, you know, they set it up ata wilderness program while I was
there, and I thought I was goinghome, when I left detox, they
(27:33):
picked me up and they said,we've got your phone, you're not
you can't have it. You'regetting on a plane, you're going
to learn us and did my intake at
like, 11 (27:45):
30pm in a wilderness place in North Carolina. I was
so mad, I was able to see myintake picture. It's hilarious.
I'm so mad. So mad, they send itto you,
Jen (28:00):
please do, can I use that, um, I laugh because I can
imagine what it must be like,because at that time, you're
like, you're probably notthinking in terms of, I'm gonna
put everything down forever,you're just like, I'm just I
just I'd need to, to kind ofjust balance back out and back
(28:22):
off a little bit. And out whatthe right balance of living this
normal life is, I just got alittle carried away.
Bekah (28:32):
Just a little carried away. I can come back here,
Jen (28:35):
right? It's not usually like, Oh, I am gonna put
everything down forever.
Especially the, like, the kindof the first go around, I'll say
at least for me what I see a lotof people. It's, it's like, I
just need to find that, thatstrike that balance a little
bit. And, um, so I can imaginewhat it's like to to have these
(29:00):
expectations for yourself, ofgetting out of detox, going home
and being like, I think I'm I'mgonna really start living a
healthy life that involvesprobably just backing off things
a little bit, and then all of asudden, they're thrown into a
wilderness program. And whatthat means is, and you can do a
(29:21):
lot better job of describing theprogram than I can. But for
those out there, basically, it'slike you said, you get thrown
into the woods and you're livingoutside, you're camping, you're
you're out really getting intouch with yourself, probably
for the first time ever.
Bekah (29:44):
And it's interesting process for sure
Jen (29:47):
can be scary and rewarding depending on the mindset of the
person going into it in terms ofwhat they get out of it because
it's like, you do have to get intouch with yourself.
Bekah (29:59):
You Do you have there's nowhere to hide, there's nowhere
to
Jen (30:03):
hide. And that can be an amazing and uncomfortable
journey. So what, tell us alittle bit about that journey of
the wilderness and not hiding?
Bekah (30:16):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. For me, personally, I
don't think anything else wouldhave worked. And I'm pretty
confident that the, that was therecipe for me. I think because
there's no way to be enabledwhen you are in the wilderness.
(30:41):
So you are making choices, I wasmaking choices that were going
to directly impact me and mypeer group, and everybody around
me, if I'm, if there's, if weknow that rain is coming, and
I'm choosing not to, you know,pack my, my gear in a in a dry
bag and get everything set up sothat I'm prepared for the rain,
(31:01):
then I'm gonna get soaking wet,I'm gonna have to live with that
decision for probably a fewdays, and I'm gonna complain
about it. And then, you know, sothe next time I might change
that behavior, I might say,jeez, last time, I was lazy, and
I didn't pack my bag properly, Ithink I'm going to be more
intentional with that, so that Ican feel better the next time
(31:22):
around. So it's really beautifulway to be held accountable, and
have natural consequences thatare safe, you know, in a really
nice, and it's not even, it's acontainer, but it's not a
container, because you havehundreds of 1000s of miles of
littoralis around you, and you,it's not so claustrophobic,
(31:48):
you're moving, you're engagingwith your peers, you have to
engage with your peers in a waythat's team oriented. Everybody
has to carry their own weight.
And if somebody doesn't carrytheir weight, they address it
together as a as a group, youknow, as it's all about grip
culture. So it taught me how towork with my peers in a healthy
(32:09):
way, which is something that Ijust didn't know how to do.
Right? I just knew how to how todo me, and that's it right?
There, me and then
Jen (32:21):
doing a great job of that.
Bekah (32:24):
failing miserably, so. So that's it, really. And that's
why we're so and why I'm sopassionate about the
experiential approach for youngadults. I think that just seeing
young adults working together asa team, and developing a
(32:45):
culture, a healthy culturearound them is just so crucial.
Because it's such a such aunique time, right, to learn how
to engage with your peers, andto learn how to show up in that
way. Well,
Jen (32:56):
and there's a couple of things I want to hone in on this
for the families that arelistening that you said that I
think is hugely important, isyou said the term that I'm going
to now use forever is thenatural consequences, you know,
and it's just, it wasn't someoneelse giving you like,
(33:19):
consequences for your actions,it was just, oh, I actually have
to think about the decisionsthat I'm making. And if I don't,
there are natural consequences.
And a lot of times, I think thatwe feel up until, you know, we
start experiencing things likethat we feel like the world is
(33:40):
out to get us and, and like,we're blaming everyone else for
all of our decisions. You mademe do this. You're treating me
poorly, that cop that had everyright to arrest me, arrested me,
he was just out to get me, youknow, whatever, exactly whatever
(34:00):
it was, and what you're sayingis so important, in terms of the
natural consequences. And thatis where I think a lot of times,
families can sometimesunintentionally intervene in
those natural consequences wherepeople actually say, Oh, wait, I
(34:20):
they did something. They'reliving with me. I told them if
they used that their consequencewould be to not live in my house
anymore. But I don't want themto live on the street. Someone
just keep letting them live withme. But the natural consequence
of that is is that oh, theygotta you know go out and it's
(34:42):
it's more of like what you'resaying is nature kind of held up
a mirror
Bekah (34:48):
for you. Yeah. And I couldn't argue with it. Man,
that was like that was mychoice. Yeah, and
Jen (34:55):
experience of it right, the very essential and what I love
Also that you're saying is howvaluable of learning how to
commune with other peoplelearning how to have
relationships with other peoplethat maybe you got along with
them? Maybe you didn't, it wasreally irrelevant whether you
(35:17):
liked them or not, you still hadto figure out how to work
together with them. Right?
Right. And that is, I mean,important. Yeah, we don't do
this life alone of what I liketo remind a lot of people is
that our as human beings, ourability to survive has been
dependent upon our ability tocommune with one another,
Bekah (35:37):
not so much. And it has
Jen (35:39):
very little to do with substance abuse. But when it
comes to substance abuse, wehave to learn how to live in a
community and how to not to tryto do life by ourselves. And
what's great is that we do havethese recovery communities that
can teach us how to live inlife, but it's really just
teaching us literally how tolive life, you know, in a
(36:01):
healthy and productive sort ofway, because we've been trying
to do it on our own. And likeyou said, while you're taking
care of yourself, it was notvery great. It did not turn out
very well. Right. All right. Sothat experience was really
great. Now, here's anotherreally important question,
because you said a lot about thewilderness program, and that was
(36:23):
the recipe for you. Did doeseveryone that goes through the
wilderness program succeed?
Bekah (36:32):
Well, certainly not. I, you know, I think that it takes
there's different versions of itfor everybody, and certainly not
now. So I mean, it takes acouple times for some people,
Jen (36:45):
right.
Bekah (36:46):
But the thing about it, though, is that I what I see is
that there's always something totake away each time. So a return
to use for me is not a failure,or return to use is I always
tried to imagine, I mean, evenwith our program that we have
now, the outcome might not havebeen what the parents wanted,
(37:09):
sometimes. And our hope Ourultimate hope is that seeds were
planted. And that's the perfectperspective that we have to have
is that seeds were planted, andthey're they're going to think,
at some point moving forward,before they make a decision.
Hmm, I wonder if XYZ is going tohave a different outcome for
whatever reason. And there arenew ways of thinking that are
(37:33):
introduced. And we've got tostart there. And we have to
acknowledge that. Because I seea lot of times whether client
comes out of wilderness anddoesn't, you know, it's not the
outcome that the parents hadhoped or that anybody had
helped, or even what the clienthad helped. Really, yeah, there
is always take away, therealways is. And there's always
(37:56):
value to that experience. Andso, the next time around, it's
gonna stick with them for thenext time they want to get back
on track or try to try it adifferent way.
Jen (38:06):
Yeah. Well, and like you're saying, there's so many seeds
that do get planted when peoplego into either programs or try
the recovery, it may not, theoutcome may not always be
success from the first time. Iknow, for me my relapse. Like
and I don't want to say like, Ialways like to remind people,
I'm not condoning the behaviorsof the relapse, what I'm saying
(38:29):
is that it was essential for meto understand the key points
that I missed in my recovery thefirst time around, right, so
it's like I had, I was missing alot. And I wasn't willing to do
a lot in my earlier stages ofrecovery. And the relapse taught
me exactly what it was that Iwas missing, and where my
(38:50):
willingness really needed to be.
And so for that, I was able toactually be successful, I don't
feel like I could have beensuccessful. The first time
because I just wasn't mentallythere yet. But because I had
that experience, I was able togo back into recovery. So much
more prepared. I kind of knewwhat I needed to do. I was
(39:14):
willing to do and beuncomfortable. And I was like it
was just, it was good. So justbecause someone goes back to
using it's not a hopelessfailure, like you're saying,
seeds or seeds are planted inthat way. And we don't ever
(39:35):
really know what the recipe isfor for each individual person
until they find it forthemselves. And a lot of
decisions come after that. Soyeah,
Bekah (39:48):
yeah. What I also say to parents, too, is you know, hear
parents that are you know,they're now going on or they're
engaging in family programmingat the treatment program and
they hear other options We aresaying, Gosh, you know, my child
has been in treatment 567 timesand and I also want to speak to
(40:09):
the parents whose child is goingfor the first time and let them
know that that's not always thecase, either. It's stuck for me
the first time. Yeah, you know,I haven't experienced a return
to use, you know, in 10 years.
So it's, there's hope that itcould it could be the recipe,
like you said, and it could notbe and I think that the, there
(40:29):
needs to be a, the attachment tothe outcome that everybody has
in mind, no matter what it is,needs to be squashed. Yeah. It
just needs to be a day by day.
Conversation by conversation.
Where are they at today? Whereare we at today? How can we hear
(40:52):
each other and be with eachother? Yeah. I mean, it's so
hard to do, I can imagine it sodifficult to do. Yeah. Because
that outcome is so important. Ifyou just want to be happy, you
know, and
Jen (41:07):
well, and there's the balance between being present.
And then wanting a goal butbeing present within the
outcome. So you can't like youwere saying you can't get
attached to the outcome, becausethen you start setting up some
unrealistic expectations. Andthose can be really dangerous.
(41:30):
When if you're a parent, or afamily member, and you have
these unrealistic expectations,because you think that you
understand how to get to thatoutcome.
Bekah (41:42):
And you don't, right, you can No, no, nobody does,
Jen (41:45):
you can start really saying, Look, this is, this is
not what I was expecting you tobehave like when you got out of
rehab, and put way more pressureon them to achieve this outcome
that seems so daunting andoverwhelming that you forget to
praise them for where they're atin the moment, for where they
(42:08):
are present. And presence iseverything, it's a day by day,
day by day for us who are inrecovery, it's a day by day for
the parents. So if you get soattached to the outcome, like
you were saying it can actuallycreate a lot of false or
unrealistic expectations on theloved one that ends up putting
unintentionally more pressure onthem to be the person you're not
(42:31):
ready to be yet.
Bekah (42:33):
I know. And I see it all the time, even now. There are
certain markers that I know I'mgoing I'm a parent myself, I can
see the pitfalls of how we getinto what we think is healthy
expectation, which is doing goodin school achieving, you know,
(42:55):
goals that I wish that I hadachieved when I was a kid. And
so it's very, very deeplyingrained into being a parent.
Because we want so badly for ourchildren to succeed. I want my
children to succeed. And it'salways this balance of me,
quieting my internal voice thatsays, I wish I had that when I
(43:20):
was a child, or this worked forme when I was a child. Let me I
hope I want this to work forthem now. Yeah. And it could be
anything from their careerchoice. down to what kind of,
you know what kind of vehiclethey have, or how they made what
they're, it's, it's everychoice. So when I see parents, I
(43:42):
really struggle when parents arepushing to reenter college at
the same pace as they were onenight because sometimes they're
using them to intervene whilethe child was in college. Yeah.
And so it's like, okay, we wentto rehab, let's wash your hands.
Now we can get back to college.
It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,hold on, like, their major
(44:04):
coping skill that they had theonly one they had, which was
drugs and alcohol is now gone.
Yeah, let's like rethink howwe're going to help them show up
in a different way. And that isgoing to take a lived experience
of handling many, many crisesthroughout the day and
(44:24):
navigating through those beforewe're even ready to say, let's
get you back to school or doingthese things that we originally
had in mind.
Jen (44:31):
Well, and I think that comes with the misunderstanding
that the drugs are the problemor the alcohol is the problem.
And when and that that is likeoh well, let's just put the
drugs and the alcohol down, theneverything can go back to normal
failing to understand that it'slike well wait. They were trying
(44:52):
to satisfy a need through drugsand alcohol. It did not work.
But now we have that back andstart understanding what it is
that they need. How can we getthem to the point where they
understand that they need whatthey need and have to ask for
(45:13):
it. So that when they go intothe world back into college,
they don't overwhelm themselves,because they haven't been able
to ask for the things that theyneed. Like, I had some time
clean when I reentered back intocollege. And it was freakin
scary and overwhelming. And Ihad to use everything that I
(45:37):
learned in recovery. And I hadlike recovery people, I had to
call people, I had to be able tocommunicate what I was
experiencing when I was goingthrough to get through going to
college. As someone that had, Ithink I had like two years clean
when I went back in. And it wasa struggle, and I needed those
(45:58):
two years prior was hard. Yeah.
So, um, so that's somethingthat's like, I agree. And before
because I know we're coming up alittle bit on time, but you have
so much valuable experience onhelping families and not just
(46:19):
helping families, but their,their kids, because you own your
own business in in doing thiswork, and I would love for you
to share with my audience, whatis your company? What do they
do? And how do you help.
Bekah (46:38):
So we have a program for young adult women called Ember
lodge in Asheville, NorthCarolina, and we are a program
for young adult women who'vesuccessfully completed treatment
who are transitioning into thereal world with primarily
substance use disorder. And so Iguess my experience leaving
(46:59):
wilderness was, I left Igraduated, that was the thing
that I couldn't wait to do, Icouldn't wait to get out, I
couldn't wait to get back tolife. Got out want to go right
back in. Like with my tailbetween my legs,
Jen (47:16):
first of all, that's a huge sign that something really
landed. So if you're a parentout there, if your kid is scared
to leave rehab, or they don'twant to be like, back into the
real world, that's a really goodsign. They should be scared to
death. So you got you're scared?
Bekah (47:35):
Yeah. I know. And, you know, it's so interesting. So I
mean, I was a out brag, um, Iwas an all star student at
treatment, I was, you know,wanted I was I wanted to do by
the last couple of weeks, Ireally just wanted to achieve
and I wanted to, you know, Ithought for a while I was like,
(47:56):
I want to get into this field ofwork. This is so great. And so I
left, I left treatment, and Igot to the world. And I was
like, Wait, treatment wasn't whyI use the world is why I use. So
how do I, how do I do this. Andso I was in a structured
community that saved my butt.
And I and I hear parents a lot.
(48:21):
They say, we've spent so muchmoney on treatment, you know, I
don't know that we can only do acouple of months of aftercare,
continuing care, sober living,transitional living, extended
care, whatever, whatever thetherapist is recommending, we
can only afford a couple ofmonths. And it's, I get that.
(48:42):
And I know it's a financialcommitment. But for me, it is
protecting the investment oftreatment, because you don't
want to go back to treatment. Weall everybody agree, we don't
want the child to go back totreatment, right? And so the
longer that we can stretch thatyear after treatment, eight
months, nine months aftertreatment, do it, you know, do
(49:04):
it and put do whatever you canto make that happen. Because
this is where we practice. Youknow, treatment is has its place
for uncovering the root of ourproblems, sifting through why we
are the way that we are why wethink the way we think. And then
the world is where we are finetuning. Okay, now that I know
(49:28):
all this stuff about the waythat I think how am I going to
live with that? Yeah, how am Igoing to like, get a job and do
these things that I've alwayswanted to do and achieve and
without hitting dead ends ofhaving ill horrible coping
strategies. So the hope withcontinuing care and what we do
at Ember Lodge is to be awitness to that process and a a
(49:52):
immersive community and when Isay immersive, I mean, we are a
real life setting for clients. Ihave to get a job They have to
go to school or go to school, wehave to see them navigate these
triggers and, and get throughthe other side. Yeah, we're
there to support them. So we'rehighly structured, we have a lot
(50:12):
of programming. And we reallyaim to support our clients until
they get past their year ofrecovery. Whenever brought them
to treatment. It's so it's sointeresting that first year is
just so it's so crucial. Youknow, we do the first birth,
they still are the firstChristmas over the first
anniversary of loved ones,death, sober. All of those
(50:35):
things we're getting through forthe first time. And there's just
so much merit to that. Yes. Andthen we get through the first
year, and we say, Okay, I thinkI can do another year. Yeah, I
think I can do this again. Andthen that just keeps growing and
building and growing andbuilding. And before I know it
10 years have gone by.
Jen (50:55):
I know, right?
Bekah (50:56):
And you think oh gosh, I'm just getting old now.
Jen (51:00):
Right? You're like, man, wow. Um, and that's like the
amazing thing. And I thinkyou're so on point with that
first year being the year oflike, having to actually learn
how to get through those firstbig milestones, and do it, you
know, in a clean, sober sort ofway, and having people around
(51:22):
you that can support you. Andlike you said, you're you're an
extremely like immersive, moreso than something like, you
know, there's like threequarters, houses, halfway
houses, yes, they're lessexpensive, but they're also less
immersive, they're less, theydon't like build on the
foundation as much as you dofrom out of rehab, like, you
(51:45):
guys really build on thatfoundation. And that's what I
love about your program and theextensiveness that you provide
in that transitional period of,of all of the, the the people
that you have at your disposal.
So like you have like therapistsand you have like, all of these
things, a lot of the other likesober livings or halfway houses
(52:07):
or three quarter houses,whatever it is, they don't, it's
kind of a little bit of theblind leading the blind. That's
how I look at it. At least inin, you know, my eyes. But I
think what you offer is more ofa shared wisdom community.
Bekah (52:30):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Jen (52:31):
That's what I like about it program.
Bekah (52:34):
Yeah, and I do so we're, we're moderately priced. You
know, we're at as a parent, andas a person who's going to be,
you know, a stakeholder who'sgonna be funding the young
adults process. Remember, lessexpensive means less services,
(52:55):
more expensive means morestaffing, more accountability.
It's pretty simple math. Youknow, if I have a staff that's
there, 24/7, that staff needs toget paid to be there if I have
therapists who come and so theamount of what I would encourage
parents to do when they'reembedding programs is ask what
the daily or the weekly schedulelooks like, ask what the
(53:15):
programming is, are they meetingwith? Leadership Team are what
are the what are the touchpoints? Like? What are they
checking in with clients? So forus, we have like morning group
and night group. We have a lotof different lenses and see them
through, they do a gardeninggroup cooking class. They do an
on site, 12, step yoga, thingslike that. So we do we see them
(53:36):
through many different lenses,because I guarantee you the way
a client can show up a morninggroup can only last so long, and
then by the time yoga comesaround, they're going to be a
totally different person. Andthen they're we're going to see
them through that lens. Yeah.
Which is so important, becausethe same goes for the clinical
space, right? So I can showwhoever I want for an hour with
my therapist, right? For mytherapist for an hour. But when
(53:59):
there's a staff member, they'reexpecting client to make their
bed and checking on that andchecking on Are they on time for
morning group? Are they showingup to other groups on time? Have
they met their meetings thatweek have they completed Chapter
One of the guidebook their questto work, their journaling? These
are all things that we'reholding clients highly
accountable for and thataccountability. And the clear
(54:21):
cut goals, for me is like themagic recipe for young adults,
being really clear with yourgoals, and then being
accountable and following up onthose goals. And really there
that's what young adults I thinkwant, they want to know what
work needs to be done and theywant that to be clear. And so
and we do that, we do that anumber lodge we have a guide
(54:43):
book that they follow so theyknow exactly what to work on.
Jen (54:47):
So and I think that's that's hugely important is to
kind of be able to set up oflike, well, this is like, you
know, phase one, phase two,phase three. Sometimes like you
get out of rehab if you don'thave that kind Have a community
that support that, you know, allof those things and have people
teach you how to use differentcoping strategies how to find
(55:08):
joy again, one, because you'redoing a lot of these things, for
people to be able to find whatthey reconnect with in a healthy
way. So, you know, yoga, you'rereconnecting with their physical
body, their mental body, their,you know, all of that stuff,
you're trying to provide adifferent ways of saying, Oh,
(55:30):
you really want to get into thegardening, you really want to
get into all of these things,these are healthy coping ways of
re inspiring yourself to bringyour joy back, because we didn't
get clean or sober, to struggleforever one, and want to be
happy. And we have to know thatthings make us happy, and you're
providing those kinds of outletsto teach people how to be happy
(55:54):
again, even when they areunprovable, but how to how to
really do that. And so like Ireally, that's, that's one of
the things that I think is sovaluable about your program that
some of the like some of theother programs, and I don't want
to take away from the otherprograms, but your program is
providing a lot more of a deeperbridge for people. And I think
that's essential. The first yearis having a deeper bridge. And I
(56:18):
think that's a lot of times inthis addiction community where
we lack we don't get a lot ofout of rehab, that kind of
bridges that they need. I didn'tand I floundered a lot. And it
was a lot more traumatic, I hadto spend years of of getting
over the trauma of the firstyear to be able to like move
(56:41):
forward in my life. And it was,it wasn't possible, it just
meant that I had to focus a loton getting over the trauma of
the first year of recovery. Andthat was right. And,
Bekah (56:54):
and young adults need support on life skills, right.
So if we're not teaching ouryoung adults, how to take their
medication, how to call theirpsychiatrist how to manage their
time, then we're failing thembecause when they move out,
they're going to be failing themin a way that not giving them
(57:15):
independent tools, the tools tobe independent, because mom and
dad want the child to beindependent, the child wants to
be independent. If they don'tlearn the skills to be
independent, as soon as theymove out, for a complete
treatment, it's gonna be Mom andDad, can you call and do this?
Can you take care of Where's mycar and my car insurance? My
phone bill? All those things,right? We need to teach our
adults how to have those skills,just the basic core life skills.
(57:39):
Yeah,
Jen (57:40):
and here's in and we'll, we'll wrap up with this. But
here's the most important thing,too, is that as a young adult,
it can't be the familiesanymore, teaching them how to be
an adult. Because that gets intoway too many complicated family
dynamics, they will never learnhow to be an adult when it hit
that adult age. Parents cannotno longer teach kids how their
(58:03):
kids have Yes. And they need sono. And
Bekah (58:06):
I told them, yes, I told them that the parent will be
like, Oh, well, should I addressthat? Or no, let us be the bad
people love her. Just love herright now. Let her be the pin.
And then let us there's too muchemotional history for you to
hold this, to do this. And yeah,so let us do that there's so
(58:27):
much value in having a nonfamily member holding the client
accountable. Because there's noemotional history there. Yes. So
it's a clean slate, oh, wait,that means we can, that means we
can hold them real accountable.
Jen (58:41):
And they need that. And they need that and they don't
need their parents. Because it'slike, then all of a sudden the
recovery comes to be against theparents more and more, you know,
and that's really an importantdistinction is going if they're
so busy, just trying to arguewith you, they're not focused so
much on what they really need todo for themselves and themselves
(59:04):
accountable. So I think whatyou're doing is like, hugely
important, and you have theknowledge and wisdom to share
with that, that it's not so muchthe leading the blind, it's the
creating a community for foreverfor your support. So I just want
to really, thank you so much fortaking the time out and doing
(59:25):
this. I think this is going tobe hugely beneficial for so many
people out there. And one lastthing I want to ask for you
before we finally wrap up iswhat would you tell the parents
on how they can best help whatare some of the boundary what
what the one main boundary thatfamilies can really do to
(59:46):
support their loved one?
Bekah (59:49):
Hmm, one main boundaries that families can do to support
their loved one that I face,over and over Again, is if the
parent believes that the programand the professionals know, you
(01:00:10):
know what that what they'veseen, to have ideal outcomes.
And then if they trust thatprogram that hold the boundary
that your child needs tosuccessfully complete the
program, before earning, maybenot earning but before coming
back home to live again, ortrust the program, I've talked
(01:00:32):
to so many parents who, it'sshocking how many parents go
behind my back. Because I'm soashamed, they know that. So they
will get the apartment way toosoon, they'll give the car away
too soon. And I, I say, I honoryour decision as a family and
(01:00:54):
that, you know, it's my job tohold a mirror and say, This is
not a good choice, which is whythey avoid me. But but then
we're talking again, a fewmonths later, a Becca, you know,
would you have any suggestionson what we can do that she came
home and and then I just lovethem through it? Right? My
(01:01:14):
biggest, my biggest suggestionis to trust the therapist, the
professionals who have seenthis, and try to step away and
be objective. And yeah, andreally think these decisions
through and listen to theprofessionals. And if you
believe your child shouldcomplete a program, and if you
believe it is a program that youtrust, then your boundary is we
(01:01:39):
love you, we hear you will talkabout this, you know, maybe when
you successfully complete theprogram that you're in, yeah,
and that's it. Yeah.
Jen (01:01:46):
And and, and just be a broken record. Yeah. And what
you're speaking to is the factthat the kids are well
consistently, when they getuncomfortable, want to throw the
program under the bus, they howhorrible it is, and say all of
these things that all thesepeople are doing. And then the
parents go all like mama andpapa bear on exactly intervening
(01:02:09):
way too much when it's reallylike, Hey, you gotta listen.
Like these people are not doinganything to you. They're doing
everything for you, because theyknow what you need. And that's
what you're that's, that's sucha good point of going trust the
programs that they've been doingthis for a long time, you've
been doing this a long time, youknow, the needs, and you also
(01:02:30):
know how manipulative,
Bekah (01:02:33):
right? And I'm not, I'm not in any way, saying be naive,
right? aware of what's going on.
But also probably pause andthink hmm, and then and then,
you know, call people talk tothe program director talk to the
therapist get other perspective,when I see is when the
communication gets broken. Andit's just and when they get to
Africa, believe me, they'regoing to have cell phones,
(01:02:55):
parents, they're going to havecell phones that they're going
to be calling you on. So whenany little thing happens. The
conversation is, have you triedtalking to a therapist about
that? Have you tried doing this?
It's redirecting your child tosource? Yeah, because our job is
to help them source and find andhelp them find what's gonna work
(01:03:17):
for them to get through it.
Because you're rescuing themand, and trying to fix their
problem for them is just gettingback into that old pattern.
Jen (01:03:27):
It is it is and you're right. And I'm gonna have all of
Becca's information and Biladand all that stuff on my show
notes. I really encourage youguys to go check it out with the
website real quick. Emberlodge.com. Is that
Bekah (01:03:41):
correct? Yep. www dot Ember lodge.com. Yep. And I'll
have
Jen (01:03:45):
I'll have a link over to that on my show notes. And
again, thank you for for sure.
Thanks for having me. And thankyou for listening to this
podcast. If you want to listento more or find more information
out about this podcast, and moreof what I do to help families
you can go check out my page atunbreakable boundaries
podcast.com. It's full of othergreat podcasts just like this
one and other great resources tolook through. And please
(01:04:07):
remember to share this podcastwith others you never know who
may need to hear this people areoften hiding their battles in
this arena. And sharing is agreat way to provide this
valuable resource or person youmay not even know who needs it.
And don't forget, there isalways hope, even when things
seem the most hopeless. Thanksagain for listening to the
unbreakable boundaries podcast,I wanted to share a little bit
(01:04:29):
about the new program that wasactually born from my early
recovery series that I did as apart of this podcast. So as you
can hear in many of the episodesthat I dive into people with
that early recovery is reallymessy. It's confusing. People
have a hard time navigatingthemselves through the various
situations that they face, suchas the different triggers that
(01:04:50):
they're they face theoverwhelming emotions, how to
navigate through some of thosecomplicated family dynamics and
how To find the right supportsystem for themselves, and so
many more things. So I didcreate the early recovery
program that helps people whoare entering into recovery, know
how to navigate themselvesthrough those very, very
(01:05:14):
confusing and overwhelming firstmonths. It also helps the
families who want to supportthem and knowing what to do. So
even if you are listening tothis, as the family member and
your loved one isn't quite intorecovery, yet, they may be soon
and you can be better preparedon how to deal with them as they
enter into that early recoveryprocess. Because a lot of times
(01:05:36):
the red flags that we think arered flags are actually a really,
really normal part of the earlyrecovery process. And we can
unintentionally put too manyunrealistic expectations on
them. So this is a great thingfor families to go through as
well. And you can learn moreabout this program by going to
the early recovery program.com.
(01:05:59):
I really, really hope thateveryone check that out is a
great resource. I made it sothat it could be very
inexpensive. And it's just it'sit's a lot of my own journey and
what people experience so I hopeyou go check that out the early
recovery program.com
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