February 6, 2024 • 46 mins
When the uniform comes off, and the badge is set aside, what's next for our first responders? Brian Livingston joins me in unraveling this question, sharing his evolution from police officer to retiree. Our conversation uncovers the seldom-spoken challenges encountered when transitioning from a life of service to the civilian world, delving into the emotional, psychological, and logistical hurdles that stand in the way.
Departing from a career as a first responder isn't merely a job change—it's a complete life pivot. The camaraderie and identity forged in the line of duty often leave a void when stepping away. Brian and I navigate these profound changes, discussing the importance of a supportive network and a thought-out exit strategy. We swap stories of those who've successfully leaped, highlighting that it's not just about finding a new job but also rediscovering who you are outside the uniform.
Planning for retirement isn't just a numbers game; it's about laying the groundwork for your future self. In this episode, I offer a candid look at my retirement preparations, stressing the significance of early and adaptative planning. We discuss the tangible—consistent savings, intelligent investments—and the intangible—mental health, personal growth—as we paint a picture of a balanced approach to life after service. The message is clear for our brave men and women in uniform: a fulfilling retirement is within reach with the right tools and mindset.
As a First Responder, you are critical in keeping our communities safe. However, the stress and trauma of the job can take a toll on your mental health and family life.
If you're interested in personal coaching, contact Jerry Lund at 801-376-7124. Let's work together to get you where you want to be and ensure a happy and healthy career.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jerry (00:02):
Welcome to today's episode of Enduring the Badge
Podcast.
I'm host Jerry Dean Lund, andif you haven't already done so,
please take out your phone andhit that subscribe button.
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On whichever platform youlisten to this podcast on, such
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(00:22):
grow and the reason why, whenthis gets positive ratings and
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and that allows our podcast togrow and make a more of an
impact on other people's lives.
So if you would do that, Iwould appreciate that from the
bottom of my heart.
All right, welcome to Enduringthe Badge Podcast.
(00:43):
My very special guest today isBrian Livingston.
How you doing, brian?
I'm doing great.
How are you doing, jerry?
I'm doing great as well.
We're going to touch on asubject that we haven't really
talked about on the podcastbefore, so I appreciate you
reaching out to me so we couldtalk about this.
Brian (00:58):
Sure, not a problem at all, anytime.
Jerry (01:01):
I mean, it's kind of like retirement right.
This is kind of retirementplanning.
How do we want to phrase this?
What are we going to talk abouttoday?
Brian (01:09):
I really think.
Well, I guess you can call italternative career planning.
I like that, if you want tolook at it that way.
It's anywhere from people whoare already in the job of being
a first responder and need tostep away to those who have
retired and are wondering whatthat next step is going to be
(01:32):
for them.
Jerry (01:33):
Yeah, yeah, brian, do you mind if I ask why'd you retire?
Brian (01:40):
To understand really why I retired we can use that word,
it will actually go with.
It is what I did.
But to really understand whereI was at and I think it's a
position that a lot of firstresponders get into but they
don't talk about it is Iremember, and it was over 22
(02:03):
years ago I had had a bad shift,really bad, and I was laying in
bed.
I'd been up all night and thiswas back before you had your
cell phone clock right.
So I'm staring up at theceiling of my bedroom and I can
still draw the water stain.
The outline of the water stain.
(02:26):
That's how well I remember this.
And I was alternating betweenthat and rolling over and
looking at the red clock rightthat close in the dark, and just
going how many more minutesuntil my next shift?
And I just remember goingthrough everything in my head
and going I can't believe, youknow, I can't believe that the
(02:48):
people that I first spoke towhen I became a cop because I
was a former police officer andwhat were true and three things
really stood out to me.
The first one was you know,this guy walks up to me and goes
quit now.
And I just got into policecollege and this guy had about
(03:10):
10 years in and I was in myintroductory week, just kind of
getting shown around and thisguy goes, get out while you can.
And I was like, oh my gosh,whatever dude like sour grapes,
right?
Jerry (03:25):
Right, right, and I'm ready to go.
Brian (03:27):
I'm going to take on the world, and you know so I was
like whatever.
And then the second guy walksup to me and goes so how well do
you sleep at night?
And I said, oh, I sleep great.
I've never had any problemssleeping.
He goes well, forget that.
And here I am, like severalyears later, because I was only
a few years into the job and nowall of a sudden I can't sleep
(03:50):
anymore.
And the third one was somethingmy dad said to me and he said
as soon as you get in there, youpick two guys that you really
think, have it together andmodel your career after them.
Okay.
And the first guy eventuallybecame chief.
Okay, phenomenal guy, greatpick, okay.
(04:13):
The second guy shot himselfbefore I was one year in, killed
himself and we had lockersright across from each other.
He did it in our locker room.
Jerry (04:28):
Oh great.
Brian (04:29):
And you know, so there was the second one going.
This is the guy that looks likehe's got it all together but,
there was something going onbehind the scenes that nobody
was aware of, but it was badenough that he took his own life
.
And I'm sitting there going,laying in bed, going.
My marriage is crap.
(04:50):
My wife hates me.
My two daughters my onedaughter isn't old enough to
hate me yet my other daughter, Iknow it is, you know starting
to shy away from me, and itended up that the day I quit,
she actually walked up to me atthe age of three and said daddy,
I don't want you to be apoliceman anymore.
(05:12):
And it just.
I remember sitting there going.
I can't believe everything thatthese guys have said is
actually true.
And I'd had such a bad shift andI just said, okay, I've got to
figure out a way to get out.
So to say, you know, why did Iretire it?
Really, I'd hit that point.
(05:34):
We had no mental health puttogether.
They had no idea how to dealwith me.
It was just go and get somecounseling.
That was it.
Counseling told me I shoulddivorce my wife and I was like,
yeah, that's not the option.
(05:55):
I want to keep my wife, I wantto keep my kids, you know.
And so I had to make you know,start to make a plan as to where
I was going to go and then, asa side note, I actually the
career that I was wanting to getinto.
(06:16):
Next, I flew into New York, Ikid you not, on September 9th
2001, for what was going to be,you know, potentially my next
job, and well, that kind of youknow that job was kind of put on
the back burner.
Jerry (06:34):
Sure sure.
Brian (06:36):
On September 11th, as you know, especially being a
firefighter, and everything thatwent on that day.
So it was just a series ofthings, one after another, and
finally I just I tapped out andI didn't even know what I was
going to do at that time as aresult of I thought it was going
to be what was going on in NewYork, but that didn't come to
(06:57):
pass.
So I guess that's a long answer, but that kind of gives you an
idea of where I was at and whyI've now chosen what I do with
and for people.
Jerry (07:09):
Yeah, I mean it's.
I think we go through ourcareers and it's full of many
ups and downs, right, anddealing with those ups and downs
are very challenging and someof them just take the toll, like
you say.
You know over time that it'sjust.
I found myself probably likeyou.
It's just like it's just timeto get out.
(07:31):
Things are not getting betterand they're just.
I think my health is taking atoll from that right, and so it
comes a time where it's just notworth it right To stay.
But, as we were talking alittle bit earlier before we
start recording, like somepeople leave and come back, like
(07:53):
they and people always ask meare you going to come back?
I'm like I don't really know, Idon't think I'm going to come
back just because thecircumstances I have at home now
.
I just I just don't think it'sworth coming back.
So, to tell people a little bitabout, kind of like, what you
do you do some coaching, right?
Brian (08:12):
And I do do coaching.
I work with first responders tohelp them understand that
there's first of all, being afirst responder is such a small,
small portion of what they areright and it becomes such an
overwhelming part of their life.
(08:34):
But when we sit down and wethink about who we are as a
person, we start to, you know,put that role of first responder
back into perspective, tounderstand that there's so much
more they can be, there's somuch more they can do that's out
there that they don't need topigeonhole them themselves into
(08:57):
a career that is literallyruining them.
As you said, it's ruining themphysically.
I gained over 60 pounds while Iwas a while I was a police
officer and then, even afterthat, I gained more.
It wasn't like it was a one dayturnaround the miraculously I
was all better the day I left,you know.
(09:19):
But you know so many, so manyfirst responders get stuck
because they go well, I knowI've got to get out, but I need
the income from over here.
And so they keep going back tothat income because it's they're
safety net, even though it'snot necessarily making them
(09:44):
wealthy, it's not helping themto retire, it's still hovering
the bills.
Do you know what I mean?
And especially once you've gota family right, you're locked
into it even more, you know,because you're like, well, if I
(10:06):
don't stay doing this, what's myincome gonna be?
And because they play such ahigh priority on this singular
part of their life, they can'tsee anything outside of that.
And so I help them to kind ofreverse that tunnel vision
(10:27):
outwards and let's figure outwho we are beyond the first
responder, and that's really oneof the first steps.
Jerry (10:36):
Definitely needs to be one of the first steps.
I'm with you there becauseyou're like you said.
This job becomes us.
We've let it most of us be, youknow, I hate to say always and
everyone and stuff like that,but the majority, it really
becomes us and consumes us andtakes over our lives.
Right, our lives functionaround it because of shift work
(10:57):
and everything.
It's just like it's just partof who we are, like it's just
ingrained into us and thenthinking about leaving, that is
very challenging one financiallyand for sure.
Right, I retired in July andit's been challenging
financially, right, trying tofigure it out after retirement.
(11:19):
Even though you, like, you havea kind of a plan, plans don't
always go as you know, as wantedor needed to go.
So I think there's the one islike finances, for sure, and
also like.
The other one is insurance,which kind of plays into the
financial role.
And the other one is like theseare my, this is my second
(11:41):
family a lot of times.
So like trying to like sortthat out plus, right.
And then the other thing islike what am I going to do to
make an income or to make animpact in my life?
A lot of people, when theyretire.
They just, they just want to bedone.
They just want to go suckshelves at somewhere and be done
(12:02):
and never talk to anotherperson Again.
I was just told that, like acouple of nights ago, and I
chuckled because I'm like that'snot the person I am.
I want to make an impact.
So it's like everybody's tryingto navigate themselves.
So I think this is great.
What you do is just bringingthis out, and I think what you
need to be done is to workinside perspective to look at
(12:23):
these different areas, and Ithink that's really needed,
because we do felt trapped andwe stay longer than then we
probably want to, or should.
Brian (12:35):
Yeah, no, it's one of the big things is it's your like
outside of work.
It's your social network, likeyou said, it's your second
family.
You know the Christmas partiesare.
It's with your shift and theway everything goes.
The thing that I found reallysurprising was when I left, I
(12:57):
had an overwhelming number ofguys call me and congratulate me
Like I was.
I felt like I was weak.
I felt like I was less thanwhen in reality.
Now that I look back on it andI let people realize, the
strongest thing that you canever possibly do is admit
(13:21):
weakness Instead of trying topretend that you are.
Nothing affects you.
You're Teflon right.
Everything bounces off of you,and to be able to go in front of
your, your alpha peers, rightand go I need help is the
strongest thing that you can dofor you and the strongest thing
(13:43):
you can do for your family.
But the thing that I foundsurprising was so many guys who,
like I can't believe you did it.
I don't have the guts to dowhat you do.
But you know, the problem thatI ran into when I left was I had
no mentor, right, I had nobodyto say, okay, well, this is now
(14:05):
your next step, right?
My father was a real governmentguy, so he was get a salary,
get a pension, that's, that's,that's your life.
Right, right, right.
And now, all of a sudden, I'mgoing well with my
qualifications.
There's, you know, nobody'sgonna touch me with a 10 foot
(14:28):
pole right In public serviceright now.
So I had to move into business,but I had no idea what I was
gonna do.
Jerry (14:38):
Yeah.
Brian (14:39):
And that's where I work with people to let them realize,
you know, I help, mentor thembecause there are so many traps
and pitfalls that I, you know,tested.
All those are the same, youknow, and exactly, I
successfully fell a bunch rightand it was more of the learn not
(15:01):
to do type situation.
But you know, I want to be ableto help those people to go okay
, I've done that.
That doesn't work, right.
This is actually what works.
This is how we're gonna helpyou build something successful
out of this afterwards.
Like, I ended up running into aguy that I knew from my
(15:25):
business and he was an officerand he quit.
And I ran into him one day andhe'd actually gotten hooked in
with a guy who I was not a fanof.
Okay, I felt that I personallyfelt the guy was just really
scummy, you know, and so I toldhim I said, listen, here's where
(15:46):
you're going wrong.
Like, if you want to listen,let's go for coffee and let's
have a talk.
And you know, now the guy runs abusiness that is makes 350K a
year and you know, back when hewas a cop, he was making 60.
You know, Like, you know, andhe's like, you know, I've got
(16:07):
better work hours, I got timefor my family, I, you know, and
he's like, and all of thathappened because, you know, and
he credits a lot to me, but hewas the one who had the drive to
build the business right.
I was just the one that helpedhim lay out the plan to go no,
you're already heading in thewrong direction.
(16:27):
Like, you don't want to go thisway, and so, yeah, so it's
really just helping guide themso that they do have a plan.
And the fact, Jerry, thatyou're saying you had a plan
right.
Well, you're 99% of so manyothers that, because they don't,
right.
(16:50):
And that's the worst part ofthis, and that's where you know
they're so lost.
So so many first responders arelost because they just they
don't have a plan and, as aresult, they stay stuck where
they are.
And what a lot of them don'teven consider at the time
because it's very much aboutthem, right, and to them it
(17:15):
should be right.
You know, but you're a risk toyour shift partners.
You know, like you really are,because at a key moment if you
haven't slept in two days, youknow and you've got to respond
properly at a key moment there'sno guarantee that your brain's
in the right mind, that you'regonna do what you need to do and
(17:40):
, as a result of that, thatcould be fatal to one of the
people that you're working with.
And I think that's one of thethings a lot of people in the
administration don't realizeeither, because there's so much
about retention.
They've got to keep the peoplethat they got, because they
(18:01):
don't want to retrain them right.
There's costs to retraining andyou know, and there's also a
cost for losing that experience.
But I personally would ratherlose someone with experience
than have somebody out therethat I'm trusting to make the
right decision when they're notin any mental state to do that.
Jerry (18:23):
Yeah, and to kind of like go a little bit further with
that is also like for me.
When I decided to retire, Ididn't want to like stay too
long.
Right, I didn't want to staypass.
My passion for the job is stillthere, I love my crew and
everything like that, but it wasjust getting to be too much.
(18:45):
And then I just like I need abreak, I need to leave, I need
to go.
But when you don't haveopportunities to leave and
you're kind of what they call itretired in place type of thing,
you're not good and Idefinitely did not want to be
that person.
I did not want to go out thatway.
(19:06):
So I mean, that's also.
You know, people say theyretire in place because, right,
they have no, they feel likethey have nowhere to go and
you're in a lot of times our jobskills don't exactly transfer
out to the public sector foranother job.
You have to be very open andvery, you know, pivot on a lot
(19:28):
of different things and willingto learn new things.
Brian (19:31):
Well, and you know, and sometimes you know it's tough,
and you know, because people arelike well, find your passion
right, and that's great if yourpassion can make you money.
Do you know what?
Jerry (19:45):
I mean, but I do.
I'll tell you a little storyafter this.
Sure, go ahead Now.
It's like my passion is reallyis helping people and doing the
podcast, but the financialcommitment right, to do the
podcast is fairly high.
And so you're just like is thatlike, can I sustain that
(20:06):
passion Like I really love to do, but it doesn't make me any
money, right?
So it's just, I just put outthe money because it's my
passion, if that makes sense.
So, right, like all yourpassion is gonna make you money.
Brian (20:20):
Yeah, and that's you know .
Obviously you know behind thescenes that's something you and
I can work on, jerry, but youknow it's.
You know you've got to figureout what that plan is gonna be.
You know, preferably before youtake that next step.
Jerry (20:39):
Agreed.
Brian (20:40):
Right, you know you've got to sit down first of all, in
your head.
You've got to get your moneystraight.
Right, and you know that's oneof the biggest things is okay,
how much am I really making?
Right, Like I'm actuallydealing with this with my dad
right now.
Right, in terms of you know,he's starting to get on in years
(21:03):
and my brother and I are havingto start to take more and more
care.
So I'm sitting down and going,okay, well, where are your
expenses?
How much do you need to bemaking each month?
Okay, and people look at it andthey go well, I've got my
pension right.
Or, you know, I've got thisright, I've got that.
(21:26):
I've got my wife's salary, ifyou're married, or your spouse's
salary, whatever it's gonna be,you know.
But we've got to sit down, we'vegot to figure out what those
numbers actually really are.
Right, you know, like, talkingwith my dad, he's like, well, I
think it's around this much.
And I'm like, well, I thinkit's around, it's not helping us
(21:46):
.
Dad, you know what I mean.
Like, well, let's figure out.
Okay, so you've got this muchgoing out, so we need more than
that coming in.
Okay, so where are we gonnadraw that from right.
And so then we go okay, well,we've got a discrepancy of at
least X dollars.
Okay, so then what are yourskill sets?
(22:08):
Right, and we sit down and wehave them go through everything
that they are.
Okay, not just.
You know, I'm former fire, notthat I'm former police or
whatever.
Okay, yeah, I was a cop, right.
Okay, I'm also a publishedwriter and traders mag Europe.
(22:28):
You know like it's.
There's so many more thingsthat you are than just you know
an ex first responder, even acurrent first responder.
You're you could be a father,you could be a wife, you could
be a mother, you can be a, youknow whatever it is.
You know you're a son.
(22:50):
You're you know those don'tnecessarily make you money, but
we have you list everything thatyou are, and so that serves two
purposes One that makes you goonly Crow, look at what a small
part my job actually really isout of everything I am in life,
(23:10):
right.
And next it makes me go okay,there are other things that I'm
good at.
Like the first thing people sayis well, I'm, you know, I'm
former fire and I apologize ifI'm not using the right term
for-.
Jerry (23:25):
No, you're good, you're good, you're good.
Brian (23:27):
You know, you know, I'm former fire, so therefore I have
to do something that wasrelated to my career.
No, you know, I've got a buddyof mine who has a massive house
that backs onto a lake Okay,massive, I think, it's like some
like 13,000 square feet orsomething like that.
(23:49):
And you know what he does Snowremoval and lawn maintenance.
Okay, well-.
Jerry (23:57):
Down the niche right.
Brian (23:59):
You know what I mean.
Like, I guarantee you he didnot go to school for that, Like
you know, but it was justsomething that he went.
Okay, I'm gonna start this upand I'm gonna grow it.
And now he's got a massivenumber of employees that work
underneath them and he's livingthis dream lifestyle.
So what you may end up doingmay not be anything in relation
(24:24):
to what your career is, you know, but we've also got to look at
what your physical restrictionsare right.
Like myself personally, I'vegot blood pressure issues.
I can't go mowing along.
If I'm mowing along for morethan five minutes, I'm gonna be
underneath the lawn mower.
You know what I mean.
You know, so we put-, yeah,there's a variety of things like
(24:47):
look beyond what you think youare to realize what you really
are.
Jerry (24:53):
Yeah, that is really important and really really good
advice.
You just kind of backing up tomaybe some of my personal
experience that you can kind ofexpand on a little bit.
So when I made the decision toretire, it was about three, four
months before I actuallyretired.
I had some other jobs, you know, lined up and stuff like that.
(25:14):
That didn't work out kind ofthe way I wanted to.
But if I went ahead, that likelooking like kind of a plan in
place, I would have probablybeen like a lot of other people
I know is like I'm gonna changemy retirement date until
something comes up and just keeppushing it back.
And even when I did have thatplan and it was in place and I
(25:34):
felt fairly comfortable about it, there was still a massive
breathing process to leave, justIncredible grieving process
that I was like not reallyprepared for.
This is something I had beendoing basically 34 years of my
life.
So there was just a lot of likeGrieving and part of the
(25:55):
grieving I think it's just theunknown, even though you kind of
have a plan like, oh, I'm goinginto this Totally different,
I'm going into the public sector.
Right, I've been in thegovernment sector for so long.
You know things I was would bethinking about on my mind that
seems pretty silly is like Idon't want to have to commute,
right, I like I don't likecommuting, I don't like traffic.
(26:15):
You know it's like.
And then I'm like how do peopleget time to work out?
You know it's like.
You know they work these 10, 12hour days and you know they
don't get really much time towork out.
And then they got to sacrificethese things and you know it's
just like.
You know.
You know doing shift work here,like oh, I'm gonna go change
but get my tire fix on aWednesday because no one's at
the tire shop.
Well, oh, now I got Friday andmaybe, or Saturday, just like
(26:38):
the normal, normal people rightin the normal working sector.
So I thought it was a lot ofkind of funny to look back.
I did about 30 different videosof all these things.
I was like our Changes, there'sgonna be changes in in my life
and I'm gonna have to eithernavigate those or just a you
know in some form, or justAccept them and just, you know,
move on.
Brian (27:00):
Yeah, well, I think definitely the the, the grieving
process is.
You know, it was a littledifferent for me because there
was no grieving in terms ofleaving Cuz.
Like you know, I had to rightUm, I was grieving.
The miss salary there wasDefinitely was um, you know, and
(27:27):
, and sometimes those plansdon't work out right, and then
you're right, what happens ispeople do start pushing it back
right Because they fall backinto that.
You know that thing that reallythey realize they needed to get
out to, but they get drawn backin.
You know, it's kind of likePacino.
Every time I try and get out,you know, and that's kind of
(27:51):
what kind of what you're dealingwith.
So you know, honestly, good foryou that you got out.
Part of, I guess you can say, mygrieving process was I wrote
Because of you know, I left 2001.
So you know, part of mygrieving process was starting to
write a book of 101 reasons whybeing a cop sucks, and and I
(28:17):
had that was the actual title wehad probably got through both
12 or 13 chapters before Ifinally went Okay, I've got that
out of my system now let's,let's move forward.
But you know it's plans don'talways work out, but you still
have to have one.
(28:37):
Yeah yeah, that's, that's thebig thing, right, because listen
, I forget who it was one ofyour guests said you know so
that we don't just kill over andhave a heart attack.
We're done, right right.
Where we were, it was very.
That was very prevalent in thearea where.
I was at that.
You know the, the lack ofadrenaline or whatever it was.
(29:00):
It was that shift.
And all of a sudden you read afuneral right, he retired and
he's literally dead.
So, like you, kind of jokeabout it, but there's actually,
you know, data that backs thatup.
Jerry (29:15):
Yeah, yeah, wait, way too many, way too many first
responders.
You know Three to five years.
It five, you know, is fiveyears, kind of pushing up for a
lot of the statistics.
But yeah, you work so hard tomake to get this pension right.
We talked about and and retireand do do whatever it is your
next career is gonna be, or nocareer, right, like maybe set
(29:37):
yourself up perfectly and justretire and do do whatever it is
you want to do.
But yeah, it's, it'schallenging.
Brian (29:45):
Yeah, well, that's why, having you know the more time
that you can give yourself, likeif you're at the point that you
know you need to get out Right,like if you can work through it
with your counseling andeverything and you can stay in
and you're staying in and yourhead is right Well, good for you
(30:07):
and good for everyone.
Jerry (30:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Brian (30:10):
That's the first thing if you can't.
But if you can't, okay, then weneed to make as long of a plan
as possible.
Okay, you've got sick days, youyou know.
You've got earned days off.
You've got bank time, you gotholidays, you know.
Figure out what all of that isgonna be, whether or not you can
(30:33):
take a lump sum paycheck, right, get a big payout and go.
Okay, well, this big payoutthat I just got is gonna buy me
a business, right?
Right find a business, that thatyou think you're gonna like,
and let's buy it out and thenlet's grow it right Like
literally my own business.
Last year I grew by 260% that'sawesome.
(30:57):
You know, and it was already thebiggest of its kind when I live
, and we still just bam and it'sgonna go even more.
So, you know, if you want, ifyou're buying a business still
doesn't mean that you don't needto be mentored, right?
You know like it's, you know.
(31:17):
But let's figure out what thatplan is.
If you've got no money and youknow you got three ex-wives and
you know, well then we'veobviously got to come up with a
very different plan becauseyou've got a different budget.
Yeah, so we need to approachthings differently, but you need
, you've got to have a plan andyou've got to have your head
(31:39):
right about your money.
Jerry (31:42):
Yeah, yeah, if planning I don't, I think that's could be
a weakness for first responders.
Getting out right is theplanning without having someone
to To kind of mentor or coachthem or to, like, maybe see
different things?
I mean, we don't know what wedon't know.
So or we just go sit around thecoffee table, right, and then
(32:04):
we just get filled in by otherfirst responders of true, true,
real facts about everything.
Right, because all firstresponders know we can solve all
the problems in the worldaround the coffee table.
Brian (32:13):
But yeah, oh yeah it's.
Jerry (32:17):
I think that's the.
The key is really like you'retalking about is is the planning
and looking at that overall,overall picture that Maybe
important to have a mentor tohelp you with.
I Think that's this key Ireally like.
That's what you're what you'redoing and you've been doing it
for for some time now.
Brian (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, no, I have been, and it's you know, as we
were talking before, like I've.
You know, I coach a variety ofdifferent businesses and you
know I work with firstresponders.
I work with with non firstresponders.
But I was asked to really, youknow, niche down and go.
If you had to pick one area,which area do you want to focus
(33:02):
on?
And Even though there could bemore money made working with,
you know, larger businesses,that type of thing, I said, well
, the biggest place where I wantto make a difference is working
with first responders.
That's really where I feel thatwell, I relate to them and.
(33:27):
They really need help and youknow the, the departments.
You know, at least now, a lotof them, not all of them, but at
least you know some of them nowhave an idea of having
something in place as someoneruns into some mental health
difficulties.
Yeah, yeah, you still run, runinto the admittance problem, but
(33:47):
at least there's more stuff inplace than there was back when I
was going through my stuff.
But that's as far as thedepartment goes, right.
But the or even when you'reretiring the department doesn't
go okay.
Well, here's some planningahead courses.
You know, for the next stage inyour life, we've got to get you
(34:10):
ready, right.
You get your gold watch, or youget your badge encased in
plastic or whatever it is thatthey do and they go.
Thank you very much and wishyou the best of luck.
Right and so you know,regardless, you're sitting there
going okay, now what Right andthat's where I think the
(34:31):
departments really dropped theball is the now what for for the
all the officers that need to,or Are our need to, leave her,
our retirement.
Jerry (34:44):
Yeah, I think some of the best advice that I've heard and
and and taken is kind of likeLook at an exit plan.
You know, when you start, likewhen you start these careers in
the first one, start looking atan exit plan, you know and that
doesn't mean, you know, beabsent from your job type of
thing.
You know, mentally orphysically it's just come up
with some planning, right, somelong-term planning.
(35:06):
And I know so many people thatdon't have a plan and they're
like I Talked to a person likethey don't even know anything
about the retirement, like, oh,I just been doing whatever I did
when it first got hired for thelast 12 years.
I'm like Well, have you lookedat it?
Do you know how much money's inthere?
Do you know how much money'snot in there?
Do you like, do you know, likeyou should know these things?
(35:29):
Because you might find yourselflike, if you're not putting
enough money away, you mightthink I'm at to say, 30, 40
years to be ever to retire.
Brian (35:39):
It's funny you bring that up because I think back to what
happened with me and I was.
I was 26 years old and Wentthrough all the training and
then I show up the first weekand one of the guys walk up to
me and they handed me a littlelike you know, those note cards
people have when they preparefor their speech yeah, yeah,
that big.
And it's they handed you aminute ago.
(36:01):
What's this?
And they go oh, it's how you'regonna direct your pension,
because we had a self-directedright and I Don't know anything
about this.
And so so my training officergoes Well, pick 50, 50.
That's what I did.
So 50%, you know, stocks, 50%,bonds, like, and income, right.
(36:24):
And I look back at that now andI go I was 26 years old and I
put 50% of my investment intofixed income when I should have
been putting 80 to probably 90%.
That's my personal opinion.
Yeah, the growth at that pointright.
But then as you're gettingolder and everything and you're
(36:46):
getting ready to retire,depending upon where the market
is, you're gonna be wanting tomove that growth into income.
But you know he talks to thoseguys and I guarantee you go.
So where's your pension?
I know, that's 50 50.
You know it'll be the box thatthey checked off, that they had
no clue about and They've nevermade any changes to it.
(37:10):
Like you said, how much moneyis in it I don't know.
You know, like it was funnywhen you said to our guys,
because we had a matching 7 and7%, right, we kick in 7, the
force kicked in 7.
And if you said to the guys,you know how much does the force
match and how much do you putin, they're like I don't know,
(37:30):
you know, like they.
Just you know.
So you're right.
I think that's a great rule ofthumb to go.
You already need to be Planningyour accent when you get in,
because you're gonna need tomake changes to that right over
time, you know.
So whoever gave you that advicethough that was great advice I
wish I would have gotten- that Imean.
Jerry (37:53):
One other thing I personally did was Like I stuck
to at least putting in 10% rightinto a 401k or 457 at least put
that in the whole entire Well,I shouldn't say the entire time
the last like 15 years, I alwaysmade sure I had at least 10%,
you know, going into one ofthose two accounts and then if I
(38:17):
would get a raise then I wouldraise that up just a little bit
more.
So I just wanted to make surethat I was not getting used to
like having the money right,because I go, oh, I got a raise
and I have this money, but I'mlike that's great, but I need,
if I can, put some more moneyaway for the future.
That's really where it needs togo, not just into my pocket
(38:37):
right now, because it may behard financially right now, but
when you retire it's going to bequite a bit more, can be quite
a bit more challenging, unlessunless you have Brian here, you
know, helping you pay the way todo something better and some
more success.
Brian (38:54):
Oh sorry, go ahead Jerry.
Jerry (38:55):
Brian, do you think maybe people should be like reaching
out to someone you or someonelike you mean a year or two
before they retire, or whenwould be the appropriate time?
Brian (39:07):
You know, honestly, whatever they want to like.
First of all, the you know, thethe my first thing is if you're
going to reach out to me andI'm not a therapist Okay, so
don't be coming to me with yourwhat do you think I should do?
You know, if you're not alreadygoing to therapy, I can't help
(39:32):
you, okay.
But if you want to, if you wantto plan for your future, okay,
whether it's going to be, youknow, we have one introductory
phone call because the phonecalls free.
You know I don't bill anybodyfor that, but you know, I think
as much lead time as possible isalways good, good to have.
(39:53):
Now, you know, obviously.
You know a guy who's day one inand wants to go hey, brian,
let's sit down to talk about myretirement and 25, 30 years.
Well, it's going to be okay.
Well, you know, get your moneyright, right, like that's.
Set goals for yourself Right,always have goals for yourself
and get your money right, andthat's going to be the biggest
(40:14):
advice I can give.
But, you know, if you'restarting to feel you need out or
you know you're leaving, thenyeah, reach out and let's have a
conversation and let's get youfigured out.
There might be a fit between us.
There might not be.
Right, you know like you mightjust go, you know.
(40:35):
No, you know, brian, Iappreciate the call and you know
I don't think that's a fit.
Or I may say, you know, no,this isn't, I'm not what you
need.
Jerry (40:45):
Yeah.
Brian (40:47):
You've got everything nailed down.
There's no reason for you toneed a mentor.
Well, you know, you may alreadyhave a mentor and you just want
to confirm, or you knowwhatever it is, but it's a free
conversation.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, so whenever you feel youneed that, that's when I start
to come into play.
Jerry (41:08):
Yeah, personally I think that would probably.
I mean, I would love to seepeople do it two or three years
before they think about going,because they can just start
working on different things andmaybe start to feel like really
comfortable about, you know,retiring and where they're at
and maybe ease off some of thatpressure of like I've got to
stay, I need insurance, I needthe income, and so you know, I
(41:31):
think those play into our roleof our mental health.
Right, I mean worrying aboutfinances and things like that
play into our mental health.
It's another stressor.
Brian (41:41):
Yeah, yeah.
So if we can help eliminatethat or reduce it, you know, and
some of the you know, some ofthe guys that I'm talking with
and working with, they are stillcurrently at the job, you know,
and I'm like okay, well,especially with shift work, you
know.
You know, five days on, fivedays off, we were five, five and
(42:02):
four right, so we're in a 28day schedule and you know so.
You got 14 days right Out of themonth where you're not.
As a result, you're not doingnothing, you're running errands.
You're always full of time, butyou've got time to start a
sidekick.
Jerry (42:18):
Yeah.
Brian (42:19):
Right, let's work on that and see you know, what can we
grow that to?
Because the more we can get thesecond income growing so that
it can actually take over thefirst income when the time is
right, we may even be able toget you out of that sooner than
you planned on.
Jerry (42:38):
Yeah, right.
Brian (42:41):
You know, or we may need to escalate that plan quicker,
depending upon situation.
But you know, like let's, ifyou think you might need to,
let's get a plan going.
You know you own a mower, youknow, like you know, we can
figure out something that youcan get and do it.
And, like I said, if we canmake that passion translate into
(43:03):
income, then that's an evenadded, greater bonus.
Jerry (43:09):
Right, definitely, brian, before I let you go, like what
actual advice would you give tolike what kind of a listener
today?
Brian (43:19):
Well, obviously, get your money right.
Right, get your money right,get a timeframe set up, Get a
plan set up.
And if you want to reach out tome, you definitely can.
I don't know, jarif, you wantme to give them a number, or
it's just wait here, because Ihave one specifically just for
(43:44):
this.
So it's 587-971-8369.
Jerry (43:52):
And Brian, are you on social media anywhere that they
can kind of follow you and seewhat's going on?
Brian (43:56):
I am I'm on Facebook just Brian Livingston, look for the
bald dome guy and you knowthey're more than willing to.
You know they want to reach outthrough Facebook.
You know Messenger, anythinglike that.
I think it's important that wekeep it confidential, so I would
(44:17):
recommend that you don't reachout to me where other people can
see, just so that you knowyou're safe that it's a
confidential conversation youknow.
Jerry (44:28):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that, brian.
Thank you so much for being ontoday.
Thank you for the great adviceand I hope the listeners that
are maybe toying with the ideaof like leaving or staying, you
know, can at least maybe reachout to you for that free phone
call and decide.
You know what to do and whereto go next.
Brian (44:49):
I really appreciate the time, jerry, and I appreciate
you helping me get the messageout there.
Jerry (44:54):
Yeah, I appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Brian (44:57):
All right, Take care everybody.
Thanks again for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewthe show wherever you access
your podcast.
If you know someone that wouldbe great on the show, please get
ahold of our host, jerry DeanLund, through the Instagram
handles at Jerry Fire and Fuelor at Enduring the Badge Podcast
(45:20):
, also by visiting the show'swebsite,
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Remember, the views andopinions expressed during the
show solely represent those ofour hosts and the current
(45:41):
episode's guests.
Welcome to today's episode of Enduring the Badge
Podcast.
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please take out your phone andhit that subscribe button.
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And, hey, while your phone'sout, please give us a rating and
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(00:22):
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and that allows our podcast togrow and make a more of an
impact on other people's lives.
So if you would do that, Iwould appreciate that from the
bottom of my heart.
All right, welcome to Enduringthe Badge Podcast.
(00:43):
My very special guest today isBrian Livingston.
How you doing, brian?
I'm doing great.
How are you doing, jerry?
I'm doing great as well.
We're going to touch on asubject that we haven't really
talked about on the podcastbefore, so I appreciate you
reaching out to me so we couldtalk about this.
Brian (00:58):
Sure, not a problem at all, anytime.
Jerry (01:01):
I mean, it's kind of like retirement right.
This is kind of retirementplanning.
How do we want to phrase this?
What are we going to talk abouttoday?
Brian (01:09):
I really think.
Well, I guess you can call italternative career planning.
I like that, if you want tolook at it that way.
It's anywhere from people whoare already in the job of being
a first responder and need tostep away to those who have
retired and are wondering whatthat next step is going to be
(01:32):
for them.
Jerry (01:33):
Yeah, yeah, brian, do you mind if I ask why'd you retire?
Brian (01:40):
To understand really why I retired we can use that word,
it will actually go with.
It is what I did.
But to really understand whereI was at and I think it's a
position that a lot of firstresponders get into but they
don't talk about it is Iremember, and it was over 22
(02:03):
years ago I had had a bad shift,really bad, and I was laying in
bed.
I'd been up all night and thiswas back before you had your
cell phone clock right.
So I'm staring up at theceiling of my bedroom and I can
still draw the water stain.
The outline of the water stain.
(02:26):
That's how well I remember this.
And I was alternating betweenthat and rolling over and
looking at the red clock rightthat close in the dark, and just
going how many more minutesuntil my next shift?
And I just remember goingthrough everything in my head
and going I can't believe, youknow, I can't believe that the
(02:48):
people that I first spoke towhen I became a cop because I
was a former police officer andwhat were true and three things
really stood out to me.
The first one was you know,this guy walks up to me and goes
quit now.
And I just got into policecollege and this guy had about
(03:10):
10 years in and I was in myintroductory week, just kind of
getting shown around and thisguy goes, get out while you can.
And I was like, oh my gosh,whatever dude like sour grapes,
right?
Jerry (03:25):
Right, right, and I'm ready to go.
Brian (03:27):
I'm going to take on the world, and you know so I was
like whatever.
And then the second guy walksup to me and goes so how well do
you sleep at night?
And I said, oh, I sleep great.
I've never had any problemssleeping.
He goes well, forget that.
And here I am, like severalyears later, because I was only
a few years into the job and nowall of a sudden I can't sleep
(03:50):
anymore.
And the third one was somethingmy dad said to me and he said
as soon as you get in there, youpick two guys that you really
think, have it together andmodel your career after them.
Okay.
And the first guy eventuallybecame chief.
Okay, phenomenal guy, greatpick, okay.
(04:13):
The second guy shot himselfbefore I was one year in, killed
himself and we had lockersright across from each other.
He did it in our locker room.
Jerry (04:28):
Oh great.
Brian (04:29):
And you know, so there was the second one going.
This is the guy that looks likehe's got it all together but,
there was something going onbehind the scenes that nobody
was aware of, but it was badenough that he took his own life
.
And I'm sitting there going,laying in bed, going.
My marriage is crap.
(04:50):
My wife hates me.
My two daughters my onedaughter isn't old enough to
hate me yet my other daughter, Iknow it is, you know starting
to shy away from me, and itended up that the day I quit,
she actually walked up to me atthe age of three and said daddy,
I don't want you to be apoliceman anymore.
(05:12):
And it just.
I remember sitting there going.
I can't believe everything thatthese guys have said is
actually true.
And I'd had such a bad shift andI just said, okay, I've got to
figure out a way to get out.
So to say, you know, why did Iretire it?
Really, I'd hit that point.
(05:34):
We had no mental health puttogether.
They had no idea how to dealwith me.
It was just go and get somecounseling.
That was it.
Counseling told me I shoulddivorce my wife and I was like,
yeah, that's not the option.
(05:55):
I want to keep my wife, I wantto keep my kids, you know.
And so I had to make you know,start to make a plan as to where
I was going to go and then, asa side note, I actually the
career that I was wanting to getinto.
(06:16):
Next, I flew into New York, Ikid you not, on September 9th
2001, for what was going to be,you know, potentially my next
job, and well, that kind of youknow that job was kind of put on
the back burner.
Jerry (06:34):
Sure sure.
Brian (06:36):
On September 11th, as you know, especially being a
firefighter, and everything thatwent on that day.
So it was just a series ofthings, one after another, and
finally I just I tapped out andI didn't even know what I was
going to do at that time as aresult of I thought it was going
to be what was going on in NewYork, but that didn't come to
(06:57):
pass.
So I guess that's a long answer, but that kind of gives you an
idea of where I was at and whyI've now chosen what I do with
and for people.
Jerry (07:09):
Yeah, I mean it's.
I think we go through ourcareers and it's full of many
ups and downs, right, anddealing with those ups and downs
are very challenging and someof them just take the toll, like
you say.
You know over time that it'sjust.
I found myself probably likeyou.
It's just like it's just timeto get out.
(07:31):
Things are not getting betterand they're just.
I think my health is taking atoll from that right, and so it
comes a time where it's just notworth it right To stay.
But, as we were talking alittle bit earlier before we
start recording, like somepeople leave and come back, like
(07:53):
they and people always ask meare you going to come back?
I'm like I don't really know, Idon't think I'm going to come
back just because thecircumstances I have at home now
.
I just I just don't think it'sworth coming back.
So, to tell people a little bitabout, kind of like, what you
do you do some coaching, right?
Brian (08:12):
And I do do coaching.
I work with first responders tohelp them understand that
there's first of all, being afirst responder is such a small,
small portion of what they areright and it becomes such an
overwhelming part of their life.
(08:34):
But when we sit down and wethink about who we are as a
person, we start to, you know,put that role of first responder
back into perspective, tounderstand that there's so much
more they can be, there's somuch more they can do that's out
there that they don't need topigeonhole them themselves into
(08:57):
a career that is literallyruining them.
As you said, it's ruining themphysically.
I gained over 60 pounds while Iwas a while I was a police
officer and then, even afterthat, I gained more.
It wasn't like it was a one dayturnaround the miraculously I
was all better the day I left,you know.
(09:19):
But you know so many, so manyfirst responders get stuck
because they go well, I knowI've got to get out, but I need
the income from over here.
And so they keep going back tothat income because it's they're
safety net, even though it'snot necessarily making them
(09:44):
wealthy, it's not helping themto retire, it's still hovering
the bills.
Do you know what I mean?
And especially once you've gota family right, you're locked
into it even more, you know,because you're like, well, if I
(10:06):
don't stay doing this, what's myincome gonna be?
And because they play such ahigh priority on this singular
part of their life, they can'tsee anything outside of that.
And so I help them to kind ofreverse that tunnel vision
(10:27):
outwards and let's figure outwho we are beyond the first
responder, and that's really oneof the first steps.
Jerry (10:36):
Definitely needs to be one of the first steps.
I'm with you there becauseyou're like you said.
This job becomes us.
We've let it most of us be, youknow, I hate to say always and
everyone and stuff like that,but the majority, it really
becomes us and consumes us andtakes over our lives.
Right, our lives functionaround it because of shift work
(10:57):
and everything.
It's just like it's just partof who we are, like it's just
ingrained into us and thenthinking about leaving, that is
very challenging one financiallyand for sure.
Right, I retired in July andit's been challenging
financially, right, trying tofigure it out after retirement.
(11:19):
Even though you, like, you havea kind of a plan, plans don't
always go as you know, as wantedor needed to go.
So I think there's the one islike finances, for sure, and
also like.
The other one is insurance,which kind of plays into the
financial role.
And the other one is like theseare my, this is my second
(11:41):
family a lot of times.
So like trying to like sortthat out plus, right.
And then the other thing islike what am I going to do to
make an income or to make animpact in my life?
A lot of people, when theyretire.
They just, they just want to bedone.
They just want to go suckshelves at somewhere and be done
(12:02):
and never talk to anotherperson Again.
I was just told that, like acouple of nights ago, and I
chuckled because I'm like that'snot the person I am.
I want to make an impact.
So it's like everybody's tryingto navigate themselves.
So I think this is great.
What you do is just bringingthis out, and I think what you
need to be done is to workinside perspective to look at
(12:23):
these different areas, and Ithink that's really needed,
because we do felt trapped andwe stay longer than then we
probably want to, or should.
Brian (12:35):
Yeah, no, it's one of the big things is it's your like
outside of work.
It's your social network, likeyou said, it's your second
family.
You know the Christmas partiesare.
It's with your shift and theway everything goes.
The thing that I found reallysurprising was when I left, I
(12:57):
had an overwhelming number ofguys call me and congratulate me
Like I was.
I felt like I was weak.
I felt like I was less thanwhen in reality.
Now that I look back on it andI let people realize, the
strongest thing that you canever possibly do is admit
(13:21):
weakness Instead of trying topretend that you are.
Nothing affects you.
You're Teflon right.
Everything bounces off of you,and to be able to go in front of
your, your alpha peers, rightand go I need help is the
strongest thing that you can dofor you and the strongest thing
(13:43):
you can do for your family.
But the thing that I foundsurprising was so many guys who,
like I can't believe you did it.
I don't have the guts to dowhat you do.
But you know, the problem thatI ran into when I left was I had
no mentor, right, I had nobodyto say, okay, well, this is now
(14:05):
your next step, right?
My father was a real governmentguy, so he was get a salary,
get a pension, that's, that's,that's your life.
Right, right, right.
And now, all of a sudden, I'mgoing well with my
qualifications.
There's, you know, nobody'sgonna touch me with a 10 foot
(14:28):
pole right In public serviceright now.
So I had to move into business,but I had no idea what I was
gonna do.
Jerry (14:38):
Yeah.
Brian (14:39):
And that's where I work with people to let them realize,
you know, I help, mentor thembecause there are so many traps
and pitfalls that I, you know,tested.
All those are the same, youknow, and exactly, I
successfully fell a bunch rightand it was more of the learn not
(15:01):
to do type situation.
But you know, I want to be ableto help those people to go okay
, I've done that.
That doesn't work, right.
This is actually what works.
This is how we're gonna helpyou build something successful
out of this afterwards.
Like, I ended up running into aguy that I knew from my
(15:25):
business and he was an officerand he quit.
And I ran into him one day andhe'd actually gotten hooked in
with a guy who I was not a fanof.
Okay, I felt that I personallyfelt the guy was just really
scummy, you know, and so I toldhim I said, listen, here's where
(15:46):
you're going wrong.
Like, if you want to listen,let's go for coffee and let's
have a talk.
And you know, now the guy runs abusiness that is makes 350K a
year and you know, back when hewas a cop, he was making 60.
You know, Like, you know, andhe's like, you know, I've got
(16:07):
better work hours, I got timefor my family, I, you know, and
he's like, and all of thathappened because, you know, and
he credits a lot to me, but hewas the one who had the drive to
build the business right.
I was just the one that helpedhim lay out the plan to go no,
you're already heading in thewrong direction.
(16:27):
Like, you don't want to go thisway, and so, yeah, so it's
really just helping guide themso that they do have a plan.
And the fact, Jerry, thatyou're saying you had a plan
right.
Well, you're 99% of so manyothers that, because they don't,
right.
(16:50):
And that's the worst part ofthis, and that's where you know
they're so lost.
So so many first responders arelost because they just they
don't have a plan and, as aresult, they stay stuck where
they are.
And what a lot of them don'teven consider at the time
because it's very much aboutthem, right, and to them it
(17:15):
should be right.
You know, but you're a risk toyour shift partners.
You know, like you really are,because at a key moment if you
haven't slept in two days, youknow and you've got to respond
properly at a key moment there'sno guarantee that your brain's
in the right mind, that you'regonna do what you need to do and
(17:40):
, as a result of that, thatcould be fatal to one of the
people that you're working with.
And I think that's one of thethings a lot of people in the
administration don't realizeeither, because there's so much
about retention.
They've got to keep the peoplethat they got, because they
(18:01):
don't want to retrain them right.
There's costs to retraining andyou know, and there's also a
cost for losing that experience.
But I personally would ratherlose someone with experience
than have somebody out therethat I'm trusting to make the
right decision when they're notin any mental state to do that.
Jerry (18:23):
Yeah, and to kind of like go a little bit further with
that is also like for me.
When I decided to retire, Ididn't want to like stay too
long.
Right, I didn't want to staypass.
My passion for the job is stillthere, I love my crew and
everything like that, but it wasjust getting to be too much.
(18:45):
And then I just like I need abreak, I need to leave, I need
to go.
But when you don't haveopportunities to leave and
you're kind of what they call itretired in place type of thing,
you're not good and Idefinitely did not want to be
that person.
I did not want to go out thatway.
(19:06):
So I mean, that's also.
You know, people say theyretire in place because, right,
they have no, they feel likethey have nowhere to go and
you're in a lot of times our jobskills don't exactly transfer
out to the public sector foranother job.
You have to be very open andvery, you know, pivot on a lot
(19:28):
of different things and willingto learn new things.
Brian (19:31):
Well, and you know, and sometimes you know it's tough,
and you know, because people arelike well, find your passion
right, and that's great if yourpassion can make you money.
Do you know what?
Jerry (19:45):
I mean, but I do.
I'll tell you a little storyafter this.
Sure, go ahead Now.
It's like my passion is reallyis helping people and doing the
podcast, but the financialcommitment right, to do the
podcast is fairly high.
And so you're just like is thatlike, can I sustain that
(20:06):
passion Like I really love to do, but it doesn't make me any
money, right?
So it's just, I just put outthe money because it's my
passion, if that makes sense.
So, right, like all yourpassion is gonna make you money.
Brian (20:20):
Yeah, and that's you know .
Obviously you know behind thescenes that's something you and
I can work on, jerry, but youknow it's.
You know you've got to figureout what that plan is gonna be.
You know, preferably before youtake that next step.
Jerry (20:39):
Agreed.
Brian (20:40):
Right, you know you've got to sit down first of all, in
your head.
You've got to get your moneystraight.
Right, and you know that's oneof the biggest things is okay,
how much am I really making?
Right, Like I'm actuallydealing with this with my dad
right now.
Right, in terms of you know,he's starting to get on in years
(21:03):
and my brother and I are havingto start to take more and more
care.
So I'm sitting down and going,okay, well, where are your
expenses?
How much do you need to bemaking each month?
Okay, and people look at it andthey go well, I've got my
pension right.
Or, you know, I've got thisright, I've got that.
(21:26):
I've got my wife's salary, ifyou're married, or your spouse's
salary, whatever it's gonna be,you know.
But we've got to sit down, we'vegot to figure out what those
numbers actually really are.
Right, you know, like, talkingwith my dad, he's like, well, I
think it's around this much.
And I'm like, well, I thinkit's around, it's not helping us
(21:46):
.
Dad, you know what I mean.
Like, well, let's figure out.
Okay, so you've got this muchgoing out, so we need more than
that coming in.
Okay, so where are we gonnadraw that from right.
And so then we go okay, well,we've got a discrepancy of at
least X dollars.
Okay, so then what are yourskill sets?
(22:08):
Right, and we sit down and wehave them go through everything
that they are.
Okay, not just.
You know, I'm former fire, notthat I'm former police or
whatever.
Okay, yeah, I was a cop, right.
Okay, I'm also a publishedwriter and traders mag Europe.
(22:28):
You know like it's.
There's so many more thingsthat you are than just you know
an ex first responder, even acurrent first responder.
You're you could be a father,you could be a wife, you could
be a mother, you can be a, youknow whatever it is.
You know you're a son.
(22:50):
You're you know those don'tnecessarily make you money, but
we have you list everything thatyou are, and so that serves two
purposes One that makes you goonly Crow, look at what a small
part my job actually really isout of everything I am in life,
(23:10):
right.
And next it makes me go okay,there are other things that I'm
good at.
Like the first thing people sayis well, I'm, you know, I'm
former fire and I apologize ifI'm not using the right term
for-.
Jerry (23:25):
No, you're good, you're good, you're good.
Brian (23:27):
You know, you know, I'm former fire, so therefore I have
to do something that wasrelated to my career.
No, you know, I've got a buddyof mine who has a massive house
that backs onto a lake Okay,massive, I think, it's like some
like 13,000 square feet orsomething like that.
(23:49):
And you know what he does Snowremoval and lawn maintenance.
Okay, well-.
Jerry (23:57):
Down the niche right.
Brian (23:59):
You know what I mean.
Like, I guarantee you he didnot go to school for that, Like
you know, but it was justsomething that he went.
Okay, I'm gonna start this upand I'm gonna grow it.
And now he's got a massivenumber of employees that work
underneath them and he's livingthis dream lifestyle.
So what you may end up doingmay not be anything in relation
(24:24):
to what your career is, you know, but we've also got to look at
what your physical restrictionsare right.
Like myself personally, I'vegot blood pressure issues.
I can't go mowing along.
If I'm mowing along for morethan five minutes, I'm gonna be
underneath the lawn mower.
You know what I mean.
You know, so we put-, yeah,there's a variety of things like
(24:47):
look beyond what you think youare to realize what you really
are.
Jerry (24:53):
Yeah, that is really important and really really good
advice.
You just kind of backing up tomaybe some of my personal
experience that you can kind ofexpand on a little bit.
So when I made the decision toretire, it was about three, four
months before I actuallyretired.
I had some other jobs, you know, lined up and stuff like that.
(25:14):
That didn't work out kind ofthe way I wanted to.
But if I went ahead, that likelooking like kind of a plan in
place, I would have probablybeen like a lot of other people
I know is like I'm gonna changemy retirement date until
something comes up and just keeppushing it back.
And even when I did have thatplan and it was in place and I
(25:34):
felt fairly comfortable about it, there was still a massive
breathing process to leave, justIncredible grieving process
that I was like not reallyprepared for.
This is something I had beendoing basically 34 years of my
life.
So there was just a lot of likeGrieving and part of the
(25:55):
grieving I think it's just theunknown, even though you kind of
have a plan like, oh, I'm goinginto this Totally different,
I'm going into the public sector.
Right, I've been in thegovernment sector for so long.
You know things I was would bethinking about on my mind that
seems pretty silly is like Idon't want to have to commute,
right, I like I don't likecommuting, I don't like traffic.
(26:15):
You know it's like.
And then I'm like how do peopleget time to work out?
You know it's like.
You know they work these 10, 12hour days and you know they
don't get really much time towork out.
And then they got to sacrificethese things and you know it's
just like.
You know.
You know doing shift work here,like oh, I'm gonna go change
but get my tire fix on aWednesday because no one's at
the tire shop.
Well, oh, now I got Friday andmaybe, or Saturday, just like
(26:38):
the normal, normal people rightin the normal working sector.
So I thought it was a lot ofkind of funny to look back.
I did about 30 different videosof all these things.
I was like our Changes, there'sgonna be changes in in my life
and I'm gonna have to eithernavigate those or just a you
know in some form, or justAccept them and just, you know,
move on.
Brian (27:00):
Yeah, well, I think definitely the the, the grieving
process is.
You know, it was a littledifferent for me because there
was no grieving in terms ofleaving Cuz.
Like you know, I had to rightUm, I was grieving.
The miss salary there wasDefinitely was um, you know, and
(27:27):
, and sometimes those plansdon't work out right, and then
you're right, what happens ispeople do start pushing it back
right Because they fall backinto that.
You know that thing that reallythey realize they needed to get
out to, but they get drawn backin.
You know, it's kind of likePacino.
Every time I try and get out,you know, and that's kind of
(27:51):
what kind of what you're dealingwith.
So you know, honestly, good foryou that you got out.
Part of, I guess you can say, mygrieving process was I wrote
Because of you know, I left 2001.
So you know, part of mygrieving process was starting to
write a book of 101 reasons whybeing a cop sucks, and and I
(28:17):
had that was the actual title wehad probably got through both
12 or 13 chapters before Ifinally went Okay, I've got that
out of my system now let's,let's move forward.
But you know it's plans don'talways work out, but you still
have to have one.
(28:37):
Yeah yeah, that's, that's thebig thing, right, because listen
, I forget who it was one ofyour guests said you know so
that we don't just kill over andhave a heart attack.
We're done, right right.
Where we were, it was very.
That was very prevalent in thearea where.
I was at that.
You know the, the lack ofadrenaline or whatever it was.
(29:00):
It was that shift.
And all of a sudden you read afuneral right, he retired and
he's literally dead.
So, like you, kind of jokeabout it, but there's actually,
you know, data that backs thatup.
Jerry (29:15):
Yeah, yeah, wait, way too many, way too many first
responders.
You know Three to five years.
It five, you know, is fiveyears, kind of pushing up for a
lot of the statistics.
But yeah, you work so hard tomake to get this pension right.
We talked about and and retireand do do whatever it is your
next career is gonna be, or nocareer, right, like maybe set
(29:37):
yourself up perfectly and justretire and do do whatever it is
you want to do.
But yeah, it's, it'schallenging.
Brian (29:45):
Yeah, well, that's why, having you know the more time
that you can give yourself, likeif you're at the point that you
know you need to get out Right,like if you can work through it
with your counseling andeverything and you can stay in
and you're staying in and yourhead is right Well, good for you
(30:07):
and good for everyone.
Jerry (30:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Brian (30:10):
That's the first thing if you can't.
But if you can't, okay, then weneed to make as long of a plan
as possible.
Okay, you've got sick days, youyou know.
You've got earned days off.
You've got bank time, you gotholidays, you know.
Figure out what all of that isgonna be, whether or not you can
(30:33):
take a lump sum paycheck, right, get a big payout and go.
Okay, well, this big payoutthat I just got is gonna buy me
a business, right?
Right find a business, that thatyou think you're gonna like,
and let's buy it out and thenlet's grow it right Like
literally my own business.
Last year I grew by 260% that'sawesome.
(30:57):
You know, and it was already thebiggest of its kind when I live
, and we still just bam and it'sgonna go even more.
So, you know, if you want, ifyou're buying a business still
doesn't mean that you don't needto be mentored, right?
You know like it's, you know.
(31:17):
But let's figure out what thatplan is.
If you've got no money and youknow you got three ex-wives and
you know, well then we'veobviously got to come up with a
very different plan becauseyou've got a different budget.
Yeah, so we need to approachthings differently, but you need
, you've got to have a plan andyou've got to have your head
(31:39):
right about your money.
Jerry (31:42):
Yeah, yeah, if planning I don't, I think that's could be
a weakness for first responders.
Getting out right is theplanning without having someone
to To kind of mentor or coachthem or to, like, maybe see
different things?
I mean, we don't know what wedon't know.
So or we just go sit around thecoffee table, right, and then
(32:04):
we just get filled in by otherfirst responders of true, true,
real facts about everything.
Right, because all firstresponders know we can solve all
the problems in the worldaround the coffee table.
Brian (32:13):
But yeah, oh yeah it's.
Jerry (32:17):
I think that's the.
The key is really like you'retalking about is is the planning
and looking at that overall,overall picture that Maybe
important to have a mentor tohelp you with.
I Think that's this key Ireally like.
That's what you're what you'redoing and you've been doing it
for for some time now.
Brian (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, no, I have been, and it's you know, as we
were talking before, like I've.
You know, I coach a variety ofdifferent businesses and you
know I work with firstresponders.
I work with with non firstresponders.
But I was asked to really, youknow, niche down and go.
If you had to pick one area,which area do you want to focus
(33:02):
on?
And Even though there could bemore money made working with,
you know, larger businesses,that type of thing, I said, well
, the biggest place where I wantto make a difference is working
with first responders.
That's really where I feel thatwell, I relate to them and.
(33:27):
They really need help and youknow the, the departments.
You know, at least now, a lotof them, not all of them, but at
least you know some of them nowhave an idea of having
something in place as someoneruns into some mental health
difficulties.
Yeah, yeah, you still run, runinto the admittance problem, but
(33:47):
at least there's more stuff inplace than there was back when I
was going through my stuff.
But that's as far as thedepartment goes, right.
But the or even when you'reretiring the department doesn't
go okay.
Well, here's some planningahead courses.
You know, for the next stage inyour life, we've got to get you
(34:10):
ready, right.
You get your gold watch, or youget your badge encased in
plastic or whatever it is thatthey do and they go.
Thank you very much and wishyou the best of luck.
Right and so you know,regardless, you're sitting there
going okay, now what Right andthat's where I think the
(34:31):
departments really dropped theball is the now what for for the
all the officers that need to,or Are our need to, leave her,
our retirement.
Jerry (34:44):
Yeah, I think some of the best advice that I've heard and
and and taken is kind of likeLook at an exit plan.
You know, when you start, likewhen you start these careers in
the first one, start looking atan exit plan, you know and that
doesn't mean, you know, beabsent from your job type of
thing.
You know, mentally orphysically it's just come up
with some planning, right, somelong-term planning.
(35:06):
And I know so many people thatdon't have a plan and they're
like I Talked to a person likethey don't even know anything
about the retirement, like, oh,I just been doing whatever I did
when it first got hired for thelast 12 years.
I'm like Well, have you lookedat it?
Do you know how much money's inthere?
Do you know how much money'snot in there?
Do you like, do you know, likeyou should know these things?
(35:29):
Because you might find yourselflike, if you're not putting
enough money away, you mightthink I'm at to say, 30, 40
years to be ever to retire.
Brian (35:39):
It's funny you bring that up because I think back to what
happened with me and I was.
I was 26 years old and Wentthrough all the training and
then I show up the first weekand one of the guys walk up to
me and they handed me a littlelike you know, those note cards
people have when they preparefor their speech yeah, yeah,
that big.
And it's they handed you aminute ago.
(36:01):
What's this?
And they go oh, it's how you'regonna direct your pension,
because we had a self-directedright and I Don't know anything
about this.
And so so my training officergoes Well, pick 50, 50.
That's what I did.
So 50%, you know, stocks, 50%,bonds, like, and income, right.
(36:24):
And I look back at that now andI go I was 26 years old and I
put 50% of my investment intofixed income when I should have
been putting 80 to probably 90%.
That's my personal opinion.
Yeah, the growth at that pointright.
But then as you're gettingolder and everything and you're
(36:46):
getting ready to retire,depending upon where the market
is, you're gonna be wanting tomove that growth into income.
But you know he talks to thoseguys and I guarantee you go.
So where's your pension?
I know, that's 50 50.
You know it'll be the box thatthey checked off, that they had
no clue about and They've nevermade any changes to it.
(37:10):
Like you said, how much moneyis in it I don't know.
You know, like it was funnywhen you said to our guys,
because we had a matching 7 and7%, right, we kick in 7, the
force kicked in 7.
And if you said to the guys,you know how much does the force
match and how much do you putin, they're like I don't know,
(37:30):
you know, like they.
Just you know.
So you're right.
I think that's a great rule ofthumb to go.
You already need to be Planningyour accent when you get in,
because you're gonna need tomake changes to that right over
time, you know.
So whoever gave you that advicethough that was great advice I
wish I would have gotten- that Imean.
Jerry (37:53):
One other thing I personally did was Like I stuck
to at least putting in 10% rightinto a 401k or 457 at least put
that in the whole entire Well,I shouldn't say the entire time
the last like 15 years, I alwaysmade sure I had at least 10%,
you know, going into one ofthose two accounts and then if I
(38:17):
would get a raise then I wouldraise that up just a little bit
more.
So I just wanted to make surethat I was not getting used to
like having the money right,because I go, oh, I got a raise
and I have this money, but I'mlike that's great, but I need,
if I can, put some more moneyaway for the future.
That's really where it needs togo, not just into my pocket
(38:37):
right now, because it may behard financially right now, but
when you retire it's going to bequite a bit more, can be quite
a bit more challenging, unlessunless you have Brian here, you
know, helping you pay the way todo something better and some
more success.
Brian (38:54):
Oh sorry, go ahead Jerry.
Jerry (38:55):
Brian, do you think maybe people should be like reaching
out to someone you or someonelike you mean a year or two
before they retire, or whenwould be the appropriate time?
Brian (39:07):
You know, honestly, whatever they want to like.
First of all, the you know, thethe my first thing is if you're
going to reach out to me andI'm not a therapist Okay, so
don't be coming to me with yourwhat do you think I should do?
You know, if you're not alreadygoing to therapy, I can't help
(39:32):
you, okay.
But if you want to, if you wantto plan for your future, okay,
whether it's going to be, youknow, we have one introductory
phone call because the phonecalls free.
You know I don't bill anybodyfor that, but you know, I think
as much lead time as possible isalways good, good to have.
(39:53):
Now, you know, obviously.
You know a guy who's day one inand wants to go hey, brian,
let's sit down to talk about myretirement and 25, 30 years.
Well, it's going to be okay.
Well, you know, get your moneyright, right, like that's.
Set goals for yourself Right,always have goals for yourself
and get your money right, andthat's going to be the biggest
(40:14):
advice I can give.
But, you know, if you'restarting to feel you need out or
you know you're leaving, thenyeah, reach out and let's have a
conversation and let's get youfigured out.
There might be a fit between us.
There might not be.
Right, you know like you mightjust go, you know.
(40:35):
No, you know, brian, Iappreciate the call and you know
I don't think that's a fit.
Or I may say, you know, no,this isn't, I'm not what you
need.
Jerry (40:45):
Yeah.
Brian (40:47):
You've got everything nailed down.
There's no reason for you toneed a mentor.
Well, you know, you may alreadyhave a mentor and you just want
to confirm, or you knowwhatever it is, but it's a free
conversation.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, so whenever you feel youneed that, that's when I start
to come into play.
Jerry (41:08):
Yeah, personally I think that would probably.
I mean, I would love to seepeople do it two or three years
before they think about going,because they can just start
working on different things andmaybe start to feel like really
comfortable about, you know,retiring and where they're at
and maybe ease off some of thatpressure of like I've got to
stay, I need insurance, I needthe income, and so you know, I
(41:31):
think those play into our roleof our mental health.
Right, I mean worrying aboutfinances and things like that
play into our mental health.
It's another stressor.
Brian (41:41):
Yeah, yeah.
So if we can help eliminatethat or reduce it, you know, and
some of the you know, some ofthe guys that I'm talking with
and working with, they are stillcurrently at the job, you know,
and I'm like okay, well,especially with shift work, you
know.
You know, five days on, fivedays off, we were five, five and
(42:02):
four right, so we're in a 28day schedule and you know so.
You got 14 days right Out of themonth where you're not.
As a result, you're not doingnothing, you're running errands.
You're always full of time, butyou've got time to start a
sidekick.
Jerry (42:18):
Yeah.
Brian (42:19):
Right, let's work on that and see you know, what can we
grow that to?
Because the more we can get thesecond income growing so that
it can actually take over thefirst income when the time is
right, we may even be able toget you out of that sooner than
you planned on.
Jerry (42:38):
Yeah, right.
Brian (42:41):
You know, or we may need to escalate that plan quicker,
depending upon situation.
But you know, like let's, ifyou think you might need to,
let's get a plan going.
You know you own a mower, youknow, like you know, we can
figure out something that youcan get and do it.
And, like I said, if we canmake that passion translate into
(43:03):
income, then that's an evenadded, greater bonus.
Jerry (43:09):
Right, definitely, brian, before I let you go, like what
actual advice would you give tolike what kind of a listener
today?
Brian (43:19):
Well, obviously, get your money right.
Right, get your money right,get a timeframe set up, Get a
plan set up.
And if you want to reach out tome, you definitely can.
I don't know, jarif, you wantme to give them a number, or
it's just wait here, because Ihave one specifically just for
(43:44):
this.
So it's 587-971-8369.
Jerry (43:52):
And Brian, are you on social media anywhere that they
can kind of follow you and seewhat's going on?
Brian (43:56):
I am I'm on Facebook just Brian Livingston, look for the
bald dome guy and you knowthey're more than willing to.
You know they want to reach outthrough Facebook.
You know Messenger, anythinglike that.
I think it's important that wekeep it confidential, so I would
(44:17):
recommend that you don't reachout to me where other people can
see, just so that you knowyou're safe that it's a
confidential conversation youknow.
Jerry (44:28):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that, brian.
Thank you so much for being ontoday.
Thank you for the great adviceand I hope the listeners that
are maybe toying with the ideaof like leaving or staying, you
know, can at least maybe reachout to you for that free phone
call and decide.
You know what to do and whereto go next.
Brian (44:49):
I really appreciate the time, jerry, and I appreciate
you helping me get the messageout there.
Jerry (44:54):
Yeah, I appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Brian (44:57):
All right, Take care everybody.
Thanks again for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewthe show wherever you access
your podcast.
If you know someone that wouldbe great on the show, please get
ahold of our host, jerry DeanLund, through the Instagram
handles at Jerry Fire and Fuelor at Enduring the Badge Podcast
(45:20):
, also by visiting the show'swebsite,
enduringthebadgepodcastcom foradditional methods of contact
and up-to-date informationregarding the show.
Remember, the views andopinions expressed during the
show solely represent those ofour hosts and the current
(45:41):
episode's guests.
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