What if embracing a new role in your golden years could bring unparalleled joy and fulfillment? Join us as we sit down with Chris Perry, a retired Cincinnati Police Officer turned Senior Resource Officer in Amberley Village. Chris shares his remarkable journey from law enforcement to passionately supporting senior citizens, weaving in personal anecdotes about connecting elders with essential resources and combating isolation. His story is a testament to the powerful impact of community service and the joy that comes from enhancing the quality of life for seniors.
Ever thought about finding purpose in the most unexpected places? Meet Chris, a 50-year-old motorcycle racer who discovered healing and growth through his love for the sport. After multiple surgeries and wrestling with PTSD, Chris found that the discipline and focus required in racing mirrored his journey towards mental wellness. Listen as he recounts his experiences, from setting small, achievable goals to mentoring others facing similar challenges. Chris’s narrative is a heartfelt exploration of how passion and resilience can transform lives, capped by a moving story of helping someone create a cherished family memory.
We round off the episode with invaluable insights into emotional resilience, self-care, and mentorship. Chris opens up about moving away from unhealthy coping mechanisms towards a more supportive, empathetic approach. He discusses the significance of financial planning for first responders, the importance of living within one's means, and the necessity of self-care. Chris also delves into mentoring younger colleagues, emphasizing empathy and persistence. We cap off with a note of gratitude to our listeners and an invitation to connect and suggest future guests. Prepare to be inspired by stories of growth, community, and the powerful impact of compassionate support.
As a First Responder, you are critical in keeping our communities safe. However, the stress and trauma of the job can take a toll on your mental health and family life.
If you're interested in personal coaching, contact Jerry Lund at 801-376-7124. Let's work together to get you where you want to be and ensure a happy and healthy career.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jerry (00:02):
Welcome to today's episode of Enduring the Badge
podcast.
I'm your host, jerry Dean Lund,and if you haven't already done
so, please take out your phoneand hit that subscribe button.
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And, hey, while your phone'sout, please give us a rating and
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On whichever platform youlisten to this podcast on, such
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(00:22):
grow and the reason why, whenthis gets positive ratings and
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and that allows our podcast togrow and make more of an impact
in other people's lives.
So if you would do that, Iwould appreciate that from the
bottom of my heart.
Special guest today is ChrisPerry.
How are you doing, chris?
(00:43):
Good sir, how are you?
I'm doing great.
Thank you for asking and thankyou for taking the time to be on
today.
Chris, can you tell theaudience a little bit about
yourself and maybe a little bitabout what you're doing?
Chris (00:56):
I've been a police officer for 30 years now.
I retired from CincinnatiPolice Department in February of
this year, started at anotheragency just outside of
Cincinnati called AmberleyVillage Police Department.
My job there is that of asenior resource officer, which
(01:17):
is a program that that's kind ofstarted from the ground up.
Building this program it's justwhat I tell people is.
It's a program that is justdoing what we used to do for
people.
So as you were growing up, youalways took care of the older
people in your neighborhood.
(01:38):
You know if they needed theirgrass cut or they needed,
sometimes they just wanted totalk cut or they needed they,
sometimes they just wanted totalk.
So that's what I think of.
It is um, but I'm doing thatfrom the position of being a
police officer.
So I'm just a few months intothat.
We launched it in may.
Things are going really well.
People are excited about it.
(01:59):
I'm excited about it, um.
I think the best part of it forme is through 30 years of being
a police officer.
I, you know, the day I retiredI looked back and I thought what
have I really done?
And you know, as a policeman,you respond, you take care of
(02:19):
the situation and then it'sfinished.
There's nothing tangibleafterwards, so there's no real.
There's nothing tangibleafterwards, so there's no real,
and there's nothing to hang yourhat on.
What did I accomplish?
So I look back at 30 years andI got this opportunity and now I
can see the things that I'mdoing and it's, it's a rush.
(02:42):
I mean, it is an absolute rush.
And I'm, I'm, uh, I'm addictedto adrenaline.
I race motorcycles.
You know, I've been in themotorcycles my whole life.
Um, and this is that, that kindof rush, but it's doing
something really worthwhile,that that makes an impact on
people's lives, and I can see it.
So it's, you know, best job Iever had.
Jerry (03:06):
I'll say that why did the department think there was a
need for something like this?
This is the first I've heardabout it in personally in the
country so, yeah, that's, that'swhat we kind of looked at.
Chris (03:17):
Um, in amberly village there is a large percentage of
people of that age.
You know boomers getting olderand we all know the aging
process.
I personally experienced losingmy mom to Alzheimer's right.
So I saw the numbers with thatand I started looking at things
(03:45):
and I thought, okay, that issomething I need to pursue and
educate myself on.
So I got a hold of somebodyfrom the Alzheimer's Association
and I'm bringing that into thisprogram as well as assisting
seniors in getting connectedwith resources.
You know, I can't do it all,the police department can't do
it all, but I can show you whereto go and who to meet with and
(04:09):
I do not.
I can't stand the idea ofsomebody being by themselves all
the time, locked in their housewith no contact, you know, and
that's so damaging to people youknow nobody to talk to that say
they can't drive, they can'tget out and they're basically a
prisoner in their own home, andthat's not the way that you
(04:31):
should spend the remainder ofyour life.
So that's the motivation.
Jerry (04:36):
Yeah, that's some.
That's some great motivation.
I know my mom's in her 80s andluckily she can still drive.
She doesn't have a lot of uh,social like network around her.
You know, maybe as much as sheshe could use or need.
So even though I'm I'm fairlyclose, it's still very lonely
(04:56):
for her.
Um right, you worked super hardto get to this place of
retirement and to enjoy thegolden years of your life, but
that doesn't really stop.
Those things aren't the waythey used to be.
Chris (05:12):
I guess a lot of things have changed no, no, and, like
today, it leads to isolation,you know, and there's nothing
that will damage your mind, andthen it affects your body, you
know, and you lose hope.
You don't have any interaction,and so what we're doing is we
(05:34):
connect people with resourcesand then connect them with
opportunities to be a volunteer,and I can tell you, just from
the volunteer work that I'vedone, like I I mean, I don't
hide my feelings at all Iactually have cold chills up and
down my arms right now like tovolunteer and to make someone
smile is one of the coolestthings in the world.
(05:56):
Yeah, you know, I spent 30years in some of the worst
neighborhoods I could possiblybe in and, you know, doing some
some high-speed stuff, and itnever I was.
I was never that excited aboutit as I am now doing things for
senior citizens and it's likeyou look at people that, like
you just said, they've workedtheir entire life to get where
(06:17):
they are right now and itshouldn't be spent in solitude.
Jerry (06:21):
Yeah.
Chris (06:22):
Yeah, and I love to see him smile.
That is fantastic.
Jerry (06:27):
You can't put a price on it well, they just they still
have things to give.
Right, they still have a lot toto give and to contribute to
the world.
I mean, uh, they have.
There's a lot of historicalknowledge that they have and
sometimes it's super interestingto hear, like, what's happened
(06:47):
over time, if they're able toshare those memories.
But, right, we're talking aboutAlzheimer's and how you know,
that is really just super hard,not only on the person but the
family as well.
Chris (07:02):
Yeah, it's devastating.
I saw the effects of thatpersonally family as well.
Yeah, it's devastating.
I saw the effects of thatpersonally.
Yeah, there's.
It's an incredibly crueldisease and there are,
unfortunately, there's, a lot ofpeople that don't know what
resources are available.
So that's another.
Another approach that we have toit is making people aware of
(07:25):
what is actually there for them,and I do a lot of work in
wellness for first responders,and the number one thing I
always say is you know you don'thave to do this alone.
There's no reason to do italone.
There are people that will helpyou.
I know the world is screwed upright now and there's a lot of
division.
People that will help you.
I know the world is screwed upright now and there's a lot of
(07:46):
division, but there's still somefantastic people that care.
And when you see that, it givesyou a new perspective on what's
going on in the world, becauseif you watch the news, you will
get depressed and you will think, oh, it's over, humanity is
lost, right.
But Then you see people doingsome incredibly selfless things
and you get hope from it andit's not.
(08:07):
It's not anything other thanjust people being concerned, for
you know their fellow fellowman and that's something that
we've lost as a society and I dofeel positive about it.
I see a lot of that and I seeit coming back.
I think people are starting towake up.
(08:27):
It's not just about you, andthat's a theme that kind of
resonated through my journeypost PTSD was when I started
telling my story.
It's not about me, that storyis not about me.
That story is about me helpingother people.
So you know, when you firststart talking about it it's
(08:51):
awkward.
You know that's some of themost personal stuff in the world
, especially in the firstresponder community.
Like you never showed a mentalhealth issue, are you kidding me
, like in when I was a young,that was the kind of thing that
would destroy your career.
Jerry (09:05):
Sure.
Chris (09:06):
You would never get a preferred assignment.
You would be thought of andlabeled.
You thought of poorly andlabeled and pretty much your
career is over.
Now I see that changing.
I think it's absolutelyfantastic.
I love it, put it out front infront of everybody.
And I took a big, a big riskwhen I when I started speaking
(09:26):
about it, but I'd gotten to apoint where I didn't care.
And when you reach a point inyour life where you don't care
what other people think, it'sthe most liberating feeling you
can have.
You know, and I I just put itout there and people received it
and I got this just inner calmand peace and I thought, yes,
(09:49):
for and I know it's not reallythe first time in my life that I
did something positive forpeople, but that's how it felt.
You know, I could.
I could see people's faces whenI would talk about the darkest
days and how to get help andwhat therapy looks like, and
then the later stages of comingout of therapy and rebuilding
(10:10):
your life and seeing beautifulthings again.
But of course, we're alwaysthere.
But now you have the ability toappreciate them and literally
see them and for me, like we cantalk about it if you you want,
but it's sunsets for me was thebig thing but I, I get you, I
(10:30):
get you.
Jerry (10:31):
Uh, before I retired, I would sit out on my back of my
house and watch this, the sun godown and, um, my wife's a big
sunset fan, you know, she takespictures almost nightly of the
sunsets and stuff like that, andso it just what it did for me,
and I'm curious to how you need,how you aim to see the beauty
(10:54):
in things.
For me it was just taking thetime, and it's still taking some
time to do this is like just tobe present enough to see,
really to slow down enough andsee that beauty.
That was always there, but yourhead was never in a place to
slow down to, to see it or enjoyit.
Absolutely terrible it is.
Chris (11:16):
it's like, it's like a prison for your brain, yeah, and
so my moment was.
So I remember a quote fromyears ago that I read and I did
not understand it and I itdidn't really make sense to me,
but it was, and I don't know whowrote it, but it was, or who
said it, but it was.
Be here now and it's supersimple, but my brain could not
(11:40):
put it together.
Yeah, so, post PTSD, you knowyou have to relearn everything
emotions, just how you think,and people that have never
experienced it have no idea howhard it is to pull yourself out
of that pit.
(12:01):
So I started racing motorcyclesagain on towards the end of the
PTSD recovery phase.
I didn't realize what I wasdoing at the time, but I was
teaching myself how to ride thisstyle of of of motorcycle, of a
dirt track bike or flat trackbike.
I had road race before I hadnever ridden in the dirt, so I'm
(12:23):
teaching myself how to do thisroad race before I had never
ridden in the dirt, so I'mteaching myself how to do this,
alongside of me putting myselfback together and making myself
the person that I always shouldhave been wanted to be, whatever
you want to call it.
So I built my own track at myhouse.
I live out in the country.
(12:46):
It's an incredible story.
Like it sounds like BSsometimes when I tell it to
people, but I'm like it's not, Ilived it, you know.
But it's an incredible storyand I love it and I'm I'm
incredibly fortunate.
I am, and that's why I have noproblem giving back, like I'll
give anything to anybody just tohelp other people get out of
that bad spot.
So I was making this track andI'm riding around on my tractor,
(13:08):
I'm grading it and it's aroundsunset and I look towards the
west and I see this incrediblesunset and it's orange and blue
and red and gold and I sat thereand I just looked at it and I
started taking pictures.
Later that night, when I came inthe house I I asked my wife.
I said do we live in some kindof special spot where we can see
(13:31):
sunsets better than everybodyelse?
And she's just looking at melike what is wrong with them?
And she's like happens everynight?
I said I knew that.
But you just see it.
(13:52):
It sucks that you, you can misssomething as beautiful as a
sunset because of this kid.
You know the state of mind thatyou're in.
Yeah but it's uh, every sunsetmeans something to me.
Jerry (14:05):
Yeah, it gave me a lot of like time to just process
emotions, yeah.
Yeah, what I mean?
Was there something did youfeel like when you're on the
track or when you're making thistrack and stuff like that, did
(14:26):
you feel like you're in the zone, like this was like meant to be
.
This felt just, I don't know,like a big thrill of energy
through you.
Chris (14:37):
Yeah, it was hyper focus.
So, like pretty much my entirelife, I was always like goal
driven and I couldn't focusunless I had, you know, a
predefined goal, like there's amission, there has to be a
mission to drive towards,otherwise, if it didn't hold my
(14:57):
attention, it didn't happen.
But when I looked at this, thegoal was I wanna be really good
at this type of racing.
I had success as a road racer.
I'm 50, I'll be 52 in October,so I'm 50 years old and I start
looking around and I'm thinkingyou're really gonna start racing
again at 50, right, I've had 10surgeries knees, wrists,
(15:21):
shoulders and I thought this isprobably not a good idea.
But there's still gas left inmy tank, right.
So I got to get out there and Igot to.
I have to accomplish something.
So the end goal was I want tostart winning races at this.
I've never done it before.
So, yeah, just hyper-focusedand extremely driven, and I
(15:44):
pushed hard.
I made it happen, startedwinning races, seeing success,
and it's really crazy the way itmirrored my progress of coming
out of PTSD and rebuilding mylife, and I didn't realize that
the two were mirroring eachother like they were, but when I
got towards.
I mean, let's face it, healingfrom something like that is
(16:06):
never going to be.
There's never, there's not anend.
You know there's a constantmaintenance phase and you always
have to drive to be battles.
(16:26):
You know I train, I train hard.
You know I put a lot of laps in, I analyze what I'm doing, I
record my laps with my phone, Igo over them, you know, and
watch my lap times, watch mybody position and everything.
And that's what I do with, withmy you know, my personal life.
Where are we going with this?
What do we need to adjust?
What can I do better?
Can I approach this in adifferent way?
Is there a different techniquefor this?
(16:47):
And then, when you see success,it's every, every bit of energy
that you put into it is 100%worth it and it's winning.
You know that's, that's anotherwin, that, yeah, they may be
small wins and maybe nobody elsereally would recognize the win,
but it's the win for me and Idon't want to sound arrogant or
(17:12):
whatever, but that's all that'sreally important.
You know, when you look at itis is those wins.
When I win, everybody else canwin, because I'm in a good spot
and I can.
I can push forward and sharethe information that I have
learned.
You know, and other peopledon't have to.
You know, go the road bythemselves.
(17:35):
So it's funny because and justnow popped in my head that this
is what's going on.
So I've I've taught like threeother people how to how to race
these types of motorcycles andI've I've talked to so many,
countless people coming out ofptsd and, you know, other mental
health issues, and I showedthem the way.
(17:56):
So it's just the way the thingsmirror each other.
It's amazing to me, but it's.
I will say it was meant to becalled divine intervention,
whatever you want to call it.
I'm, I'm way more spiritual nowthan I've ever been in my
entire life, than I've ever beenin my entire life.
(18:16):
Yeah, there's a higher power.
I don't know exactly which oneit is, but there's something
there a lot bigger than us, andyou know the desire.
You know, approaching 52 yearsold is burning brighter than
it's ever been in my entire life.
Jerry (18:34):
So so, chris, am I hearing you correctly?
Correctly, like you're able tofill yourself up from motor
strike writing all this joy andyour cup is almost overflowing,
and just so you're able to giveback yeah, that's, that's what
it is.
Chris (18:51):
And you know, I, I came off, the last race weekend I had
was the best race weekend yet.
And I came in second weekendyet and I came in second right.
I was always the guy thatsecond place like to to uh, put
Ricky Bobby first, first loserright or whatever.
I said, um, but yeah, it wassecond place and I, I, I lost
(19:12):
the race by like half a wheellength, but it was.
It was the most fun I've everhad, you know.
And I come off the track.
I couldn't have been to berealistic about it.
I was probably happier withsecond than I would have been
with first, just because of thechase.
I worked my way through thepack and ran this guy down and
(19:33):
if I would have had one more lapor just a few more horsepower,
it would have been a win.
But I wasn't angry about it, Iwas thrilled to death.
And it's the same when you workwith somebody and they're in a
bad spot, you get them in a goodspot.
And then I'll just refer to themost incredible phone call I've
ever had.
(19:53):
It was Halloween of this pastyear, it was um halloween at
this this past year.
I get a phone call.
I look at the phone and we'reheading down to my niece's house
to take her her little boys,out trick-or-treating.
See the phone ring and Ithought man, what is this?
This is probably not going tobe good if he's calling me on a
night like this.
And um, this guy that I've beenworking with told me he said
the reason that I'm out able togo trick-or-treating tonight
(20:16):
with the kids is because of you.
And I said I don't reallyunderstand that.
And he said man, if I wouldn'thave met you, I wouldn't be here
, I would have killed myself.
And he's like you saved my life.
And my wife looked over at meand I had tears flowing down my
my face and she looked at me andwas like shaking her head, like
, oh, my god, what?
(20:36):
And I gave her a thumbs up andI said I didn't save your life,
you saved your life, I justshowed you the path.
And he's like no, man, if itweren't for you, I wouldn't be
here.
And at that moment I askedmyself I was like what else do
you want?
Is there a greater victory?
There's not.
(20:57):
Is there a greater victory?
There's not.
And I would trade every race,win, every accomplishment I've
ever had in my life to hear thatyeah, yeah, I mean it's and.
And then to do it several timesand each time is just as
special as the first.
(21:17):
I mean that you know, peoplecome into being a first
responder in a career andthey're like I want to make a
difference, and it's such aphrase that's kind of.
And when you really make adifference there's like I know
(21:50):
I've said a couple times,there's nothing greater To a
point where I don't.
Of course I'm happy.
I can tell you that I'mhonestly happy.
You know, I dealt 22 years.
I won't say I dealt with it.
(22:15):
I survived PTSD for 20.
Jerry (22:17):
Find true happiness and true peace is an incredible gift
and I'm extremely fortunate andI will never lose sight of that
.
Yeah, I have.
I have a lot of thoughts, um,cause it's a lot of good, a lot
of good uh content.
And, Chris, obviously you havea.
You have a great heart anddoing, doing great things to
help other other people, and Idon't mean to like to minimize
(22:39):
what you're doing, what you'redoing.
I want to encourage otherpeople to do what you're doing.
Do you think you're this issomething special about you, or
do you or do you think otherpeople can do this?
Chris (22:50):
I think other people can do it.
I think it's getting yourpriorities straight and being
honest with yourself.
That was hard, that was reallyhard, really looking at who you
are and what your values are.
And it's funny because it'skind of ironic, because if
(23:15):
you're not 100% and you don'tfocus on yourself to get
yourself right, you can't bethat for other people.
Right, they're going to get apercentage of what you could
give them.
So I call it selflessly selfish,right?
So I prioritize myself.
I am number one.
(23:35):
I have to be the best that Ican be to help other people.
I can't get run into the ground, I can't run out of energy,
because then these people aregetting cheated, they're not
getting what they need.
And the people that were reallyinfluential in getting me to
the point where I could bediagnosed with PTSD and then the
(23:56):
after, you know, the rebuildingphase, there were people that
gave me everything that they had, you know, and they were
selfless and they were honest.
And there were times when theywere so honest that it that it
angered me but they were tellingme the truth, you know, and you
can't get angry with the truth.
You can't.
You have to.
(24:17):
You have to get rid of that andsay this is, this is, if it's
someone you trust and someoneyou know has your best interests
, right?
If you look at it and you thinkthey're not saying this to be
mean, they're saying this tohelp me and is it bitter?
Yeah, it is, it sucks.
But then you sit there and ifyou reflect on it you think,
(24:39):
yeah, I did that, I said that,or I didn't do what I should
have done.
I wasn't the best friend that Ishould have been Most
importantly to me, I wasn't thehusband I should have been.
There was never any abuse,anything like that.
It was nothing physical, but Iwas, wasn't present.
That's that's horrible.
(25:02):
But then the key to that isself-forgiveness, because if I
wallow in that sadness from thething that I failed to do, I'm
never going to get any better,Right, you know?
So why I'm that's.
It's just that would bedestroying everything I worked
for, you know, and so I workedon being a good husband, um,
(25:27):
being open, emotional.
I mean.
I was emotionally dead for 22years, um, and one of the things
is my wife and I were out atour house walking our dog around
our pond and I saw her.
I looked over and saw her hand.
(25:47):
I reached over and I startedholding her hand as we walked
and she just kind of looked atme and I was like well, I said
what?
And she goes I love this, butit's weird and my feelings for
her man, I man, I was like weird.
And she's like Chris, you gotto understand, this version of
you is not who I married.
And I said I don't know why youmarried me.
(26:09):
That version I wouldn't haveand I would have left me a
hundred times over.
And she's like I knew what youwere dealing with.
I wasn't sure what exactly itwas.
She's like I love this versionof you, but it is an adjustment
and I think that's anotherimportant thing for people to
understand is that on top of therecovery phase is another
(26:32):
mountain to climb, but you haveto look at it with a positive
attitude.
You have to have a positiveattitude and you have to look at
it with a positive attitude.
You have to have a positiveattitude and you have to have
self-forgiveness, and I thinkself-forgiveness is probably a
little more important.
(26:57):
Um, you can't hold on to thepast.
The past is the reminder ofwhat not to be and I might.
That's another one of my goals.
I'm driven to get there.
You know, um, showing emotion,that's another thing.
That's hard and the thing thatirritates me is the fact there's
no roadmap for recovery.
(27:18):
No, but nobody tells you how todo it.
So, to mirror the dirt trackracing, there's no one to teach
you how to do that.
Like there's there's, likethere's nothing.
You ask people are like what doI do?
Like we go fast and turn left.
I'm there's more to it thanthat.
(27:38):
Like the quote is, is it'seasiest thing to do, but it's
easier, it's the hardest thingto do.
Well, in the flat track, racingand the recovery from PTSD
mirror each other Exactly andit's that recovery phase that
people are missing.
There's there just because you,you, you.
There's one of the guys Iworked with calls it PTSD school
(28:00):
.
You know you get out of you,get out of therapy.
So you look at it and you'relike, okay, well, ptsd isn't a
thing anymore.
But now what do I do?
And that's like no man's landand you have to figure it out.
And it's an incredible learningexperience.
(28:21):
It's a valuable phase in yourlife.
You'll learn tremendous amountsof things about yourself and
about other people during that.
But at some point people haveto have somebody to rely on that
can show them the path, andthat's one of the things I
really like to do.
(28:42):
And people will call me andthey'll say well, is this, is
this normal?
I was like, well, yeah.
And then the story I tellpeople is when I was in a good
space after PTSD and my emotionsstarted coming back, my wife
and I were watching a Lifetimemovie and they're all the same
(29:03):
script.
You know I'm watching the movieand it was a really sad part,
like the husband passed away orwhatever, and I had tears in my
eyes and I thought am I losingit?
Am I going backwards?
So you know, I called a reallygood friend of mine who's a
doctor and I said am I losing it?
Am I going backwards?
So you know, I call a reallygood friend of mine who's a
doctor and I said, hey, is this,is this normal?
And you know she kind ofgiggled and she's like that's
(29:26):
awesome, chris, that's fantastic, that's a healthy emotion, but
it's you have to have somebodyto bounce that stuff off of
Cause, otherwise you're going tobe full of doubts, like did I
really?
Did I gain any ground?
Did I make it?
Am I where I'm supposed to be?
But there's really no way to toknow.
But then if people network andthey have people they can trust,
(29:48):
then you can say, yes, that'sabsolutely normal.
Something we were always toldthrough the process of our
careers is yeah, you don't showany emotion, rub some dirt on it
, bury it.
Um, and especially Gen X I mean, I'm Gen X and that's how we
were brought up.
You know show no weakness.
Crying is weakness, you know.
(30:08):
No matter what it was, you justbury it, you know.
Or they tell you go, go have afew few drinks, and it's like
the most unhealthy way way todeal with anything is what we
were preached, you know yeah so,yeah, but uh, I'm in a good
spot now and I'm loving life.
(30:29):
I never thought it would bepossible, but and I'll never say
I did it by myself, I never didit by myself it takes a group
of people that care and a groupof people that have been there,
and that's why it's so importantfor you know things like peer
support.
Yes, you can have somebodythat's going to, and I tell
(30:49):
people like I'm not going tohave your back, I'm going to be
beside you.
We're going to walk throughthis together and like we're
going to hit it hard together.
Like we're going to hit it hardtogether, it's.
It's not going to be mecatching you when you fall.
I'm going to to be right nextto you while we go through every
step of this.
When you do that, people aregoing to have success.
You know you can't turn yourback on them.
(31:12):
God, it's frustrating sometimes, you know, and you, you catch
yourself.
You're like, why can't you getthis?
But then you think to yourselflike, oh, I remember I was that
guy.
Jerry (31:22):
I was that guy that didn't get it.
Chris (31:23):
Yeah, so there's, there's , there's no judgment, but you
want it so bad for them.
You know yeah.
Jerry (31:31):
Yeah.
Chris (31:34):
But that's period of my life.
I'll say that.
Jerry (31:39):
It sounds amazing.
It sounds like an amazingjourney.
I definitely can understand itwas not easy and it did not
happen overnight, but I thinkfrom what I'm hearing is a lot
of like just chipping away at it.
Right, it was a lot of like I'mfeeling this it right, there's
a lot of like, I'm feeling this.
Okay, let me just sit with this, and I don't know if analyze
(32:04):
this is the right word orwhatever like sit with it and
and then just like okay, is thisa good emotion?
This is a bad emotion.
Where is it coming from?
How do I deal with it?
Like, and just take the time toprocess it, because what I
think tends to happen to mostrisk responders especially you
know you're just work, right,just this repetitive cycle of
(32:24):
work, work, work, work, work,home, work, home work.
If you're in the in that modeto like, sit and process your
emotions, like until somethingprobably really strikes you hard
yeah, yeah, there, there has tobe some moment that's
(32:47):
life-changing.
Chris (32:49):
You know where you think, man, that was.
That was horrible, yeah, and Ididn't have that until like the
last three years of of my career, where I saw, you know, I was
in a traffic unit so we didfatal and serious crashes and I
went to a scene of probably theworst fatal I've ever seen and I
(33:11):
was in a healthy place and Ilooked at everything.
I thought, god, this isincredibly damaging, this is
horrible.
My approach to it and to thewitnesses was completely
different than anything I'd everdone in my entire life.
I did the the police part of it, did my interviews, recorded
interviews, did everything Ineeded to do for the
(33:34):
investigation.
Then afterwards I called thesewere all young people, you know,
21 and 19 years old.
I pulled them together and Isaid, hey, this isn't me talking
as a policeman to you right now, it's just one human being to
another one, I said this is I'venever seen anything like this
myself.
This is not normal.
(33:57):
You may need to get helpprocessing this and these are
the places that you can go andthese are the ways to get
through this, because this isnever going to leave your mind,
but there's a way to process itand deal with it so it doesn't
destroy you.
And they looked at me and theysaid we've never heard a
(34:18):
policeman talk like this before.
I said, because I'm not apoliceman right now I said I get
it.
You know, this is bigger thanthat.
This is about you guys.
Um, I walked away from that andI had a big smile on my face.
I felt I was proud.
I thought I would have neverdone that before.
Yeah, that was a win.
You know, I, I, I talk aboutthose small wins.
(34:39):
I'm sure they didn't see it asa win.
They're just like oh, this guyreally cares, but that was a
huge win for me.
And I keep track of those winsand anytime you start feeling
down or negative, look back onyour wins.
That'll drive you, that'll fillyour gas tank back up and just
go hammer down and push further,see how much you can accomplish
(35:02):
and, um, that's like what anincredible change of events for
me.
You know it's just.
You know you get a peer supportgroup.
You get, you know, cliniciansthat know how to process trauma.
(35:23):
They know what they're doing.
You know they're culturallycompetent because they're let's
face it, we're a very uniqueculture.
Yes, right, and there's not alot of people that can
understand us, um, but when youget matched up with the right
therapist, I mean it's fullspeed ahead and yeah, I mean, I
(35:47):
mean I'm thrilled where I am now.
I just it's a point where youalmost feel guilty.
You know, like I shouldn't feelthis good, but I do feel this
good and I'm not ashamed of it.
It's I'm blessed.
I know that's another termthat's overused.
Sometimes things just are whatthey are.
(36:09):
Know I've been very fortunate.
I'm blessed, um, I love helpingpeople.
You know it's.
I've never thought so at 30years of a career.
My only goal when I retired wasI wanted to buy a gravel truck
and haul gravel right, and Iwanted to go from point a to
point b.
(36:30):
You order your gravel, Ideliver a drop where you want.
I don't have to talk to anybody, I don't have to feel anybody's
pain or see horrible things.
But then I started thinkingabout.
I was like that's not, that'snot me, and then I came out of
this whole ptsd fog and I waslike you still have so much to
give and so many experiencesthat will be lost unless you
(36:54):
share them with people.
And so that was.
I mean, there's a lot ofmotivating factors, but that was
, that was a huge one.
It was like I I paid a price,you know.
But I don't regret paying thatprice, cause if had I not gone
through the hell that I did, Iwouldn't be where I am today.
Jerry (37:10):
Sure.
Chris (37:11):
And not one of those 22 years is somebody asked me once
aren't you bitter about losing22 years of your life?
I didn't lose 22 years of mylife.
That's what I had to go throughto get where I am today.
It's not lost.
Jerry (37:25):
Right To probably appreciate life at the level
that you appreciate life and thelevel that you can contribute
to society and your family andfriends and stuff like that.
You know you mentioned somethingso funny, like I wanted to be a
gravel truck and go from pointA to point B, and you know I'm
not talking about you feelanything.
(37:45):
I really wish I had a poll.
I pull right now and this waslive, to see how many people
would be like oh yeah, that'show I feel too, because that's
what I hear, right, I hear fromall the people around me like
I'm like and I'm not that person, I'm like, why would you want
to do that?
Why would you want to go juststock shelf someplace and just
have that job?
And so for some people probablyit makes them happy and fills
(38:09):
them up and you know just to doit.
But I'm like you've had such acareer it's been so engaging
with people and surrounded bypeople, and now you're just
going to like retire and justcut the people out of your life
Totally.
It's definitely not, not goingto be healthy.
Chris (38:27):
No, and like you said, for some people that may work,
but for me it wasn't going to behealthy.
No, and like you said, for somepeople that may work, but for
me it wasn't going to work and Iknew that.
And then that that's anotherthing.
That kind of puts you in thatspace where you're thinking
where do I go now because I'mnot going to be happy driving a
gravel truck.
I have to have interaction andI have to have like I need goals
(38:48):
.
You know whether it's to knock asecond off of a lap time or to
get somebody to the point whereyou know they're, they have a
great relationship with theirkids, or they can get back with,
you know, get in a good placewith their spouse where they
were just existing together theywere basically like roommates
(39:09):
and then they tell you you knowwe, we have date nights and you
know we have a great romanticrelationship now and I truly
still love this person beforeI've fallen in love with them
again yeah it's like you know,like, what else do you want and
I said that before but like,like being able to help a family
(39:33):
get back together so that kidsdon't grow up in a broken home.
You know, I don't know this isyou're, I never would have go
ahead.
Jerry (39:44):
you're off to great things.
No, you're good, you're off.
You're off doing great andamazing things and, and you can
tell, I can tell when peoplewill watch this, you know, on
YouTube or whatever, see thesound bites of this, they'll see
, like you have, that justhappiness is like radiating from
you, like and enjoy, and youknow I can hear the fulfillment
(40:06):
and you know I can hear thefulfillment and you know, and
just the love to help people andlike, yeah, that 22 years got
you to the person you are today,which seems pretty amazing to
me, chris, and like there'sdefinitely, you know, in the
first respond world need morepeople like you to help others,
(40:31):
get better and do better yep andI.
Chris (40:37):
I just I had one key person in my life that set it
all in motion.
Um I an incredible thing thathappened.
I for a long time I askedmyself why and how, and then I
got to a point where I justthought this is once again.
This is bigger than me.
(40:57):
I'm not sure how it happened.
Be honest with you, I don'treally care, because I'm here
now.
I mean, what's, what's to ask?
You know, yeah, you know I'mrarely am I speechless, but
(41:17):
trying to trying to convey whatthat that feels like when you
get to that point where you'redone asking and wondering why,
you just basically go fullcircle back to be here now.
You know, yeah, be where yourfeet are and just live in the
moment.
And you know, let's get it,let's go after it, and things
(41:41):
will be what they are and theycan be so much greater if you're
in a positive mindset.
You know, your head's clear andit's the way I look at racing
motorcycles now.
There's no, there's no, likeI'm not nervous.
I know if I go and I do thethings that I know how to do and
(42:03):
I give everything to it and Igo into it with a positive
mindset, I would be so much moresuccessful than I would have
been if I would have beenuptight and nervous and think
well, I have to get first.
You don't have to get first,you have to give your best, yeah
, but, and sometimes it's notfirst, sometimes it's not fifth,
but if you put an honest effortin and you work, that's the
(42:23):
best that you can do at the timeand take credit for it and
don't look at it Second place isfirst loser, and I mean for it
and don't look at it secondplace's first loser and I mean
that was bred into meyou know, so much negative
things that, yeah, and you know,and I know it's in different
(42:43):
generations as well, but it wasjust that thing where winning is
the only thing and you can'tenjoy what you're doing because
now this is something where, ifyou're not first, you're a
failure, and I don't subscribeto that theory anymore in any
way, shape or form.
But I will put myself first soI can have the ability to give
100% of myself.
(43:05):
I'm not going to risk myself.
I'm not going to go backwardsmyself.
Yeah, I'm not going to riskmyself.
I'm not going to go backwards.
I can pass someone onto anotherperson that maybe can deal with
this other person better, maybethey'll get along better.
Maybe I'm tired from work oryou know whatever.
But have enough self-awarenessto know this is probably not the
(43:28):
best person for me to work withright now, or, you know, I'm
not in the best spot right now.
So take some time, pull back,you know, gather yourself up and
then go after it again.
But the boundaries are huge,you know, and if you extend
those boundaries, then thatperson that you're trying to
help is not going to get whatthey need.
Jerry (43:51):
Right, yeah, you're so right Lesson learned.
Chris (43:56):
I learned that the hard way.
Um, it all turned out, but itwas.
It was one of those thingswhere I did that self-reflection
and I saw where I where Imessed up.
I didn't know any better whereI where I messed up, I didn't
know any better.
(44:16):
I was operating on my heart,just on my heart and and not
thinking about me as well as theother person and I.
Not a bad thing, learningexperience, you know.
So take this learningexperiences and you know, put
them back your head and drawfrom in the future yeah, chris.
Jerry (44:37):
Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you
think the audience should know?
Chris (44:43):
um, I would say when you're young and you're going
into the first responder field,remember more overtime equals
more trauma.
Live within your means.
That's huge Plan for the futurebecause, believe it or not, you
(45:07):
actually are going to make itinto your 50s and 60s.
And I never thought I would.
I wish I would have saved moremoney, I wish I would have made
better decisions, but we're allyoung and we make mistakes.
And take care of yourself.
Make yourself priority numberone period.
You are the most importantperson in the world and people
(45:31):
say.
People say well, what about mykids?
Well, if you're not 100, you'renot going to be the best
version of yourself for yourkids.
Yeah, think about it.
It only makes sense when youlook at it like that.
Um, so I can really think about, you know, is when you you see
the younger ones coming up andyou see yourself 30 years ago
(45:54):
and you get frustrated with them, like if you're a peer support
person working with youngerpeople, just think about where
you were, I mean don't losesight of that.
Don't forget where you came from.
We all made stupid mistakes andhad a screwed up attitude.
Right, you know we didn't knowyou.
You know you don't know whatyou don't know, but you know
(46:16):
just if you find somebody to belike that and you think, oh,
this person's a little bit goofyor whatever, just think back to
yourself how you were and thenapproach it like that and but be
there for regardless.
You know and it may it may takea couple times to connect, but
you know you can't give up andpeople, people are not
(46:38):
disposable, they're notthrowaways.
That's another, another thingthat I I hold to it.
We look at a person um say theywere a stellar employee and
they did an absolutely great joband they were fun to be around,
and you see this drastic change.
Ask why Ask the hard question?
(46:59):
Yeah, they may get angry withyou, but you may save their life
by asking the hard question.
Jerry (47:07):
Yeah, I agree with you there.
Chris (47:08):
You know, ask that question I've seen that so many
times throughout 30 years is wesaw somebody crumble and nobody
ever asked why.
They just said bad things aboutthem.
You know.
Yeah yeah, but nobody, ever,nobody ever bothered to dive
deep into it and put themselvesout there Right why we lost
(47:32):
people.
People died because of that.
That can't happen.
Jerry (47:41):
Yep, yeah, a lot of great wisdom, chris, a lot of great
things from it.
Where can people reach out toyou if they want to see what
you're doing?
Chris (47:56):
My email is C Perry.
Last name is P E R Y atAmberley villageorg, and
Amberley is spelled a M B E R LE Y.
I've done a couple otherpodcasts.
One was with Dave Leith fromthe Hero Academy.
I think it's episode 79.
That was the first one I did,but if anybody wants to speak to
(48:21):
me, get with me through myemail.
I'll help anybody that I can.
I'll never turn anybody away.
Another thing is and somepeople kind of look at me funny
and look at me sideways when Isay it I have no secrets.
If you ask me a question, I'llgive you an answer.
It may not be the answer youwere expecting or the answer
that you want, but it's anhonest answer and you know
(48:44):
that's the only way you learn.
Jerry (48:46):
Yeah, it's fair I'm not keeping it to myself nobody's
gonna benefit.
Chris (48:52):
Nobody's gonna benefit from my experiences unless I I
share them.
So they're not going to becensored.
Yeah, you know, it's just to methat's the best way yeah, well,
thank you so much for being ontoday.
I really appreciate it I Iappreciate the opportunity this.
This has been a good time.
I appreciate it.
Jerry (49:11):
Yeah, no, it's been awesome, Thank you.
Thanks again for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewthe show wherever you access
your podcast.
If you know someone that wouldbe great on the show, please get
a hold of our host, jerry DeanLund, through the Instagram
handles at Jerry fire and fuelor at enduring the badge podcast
(49:34):
, also by visiting the show'swebsite, enduring the badge
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Remember, the views andopinions expressed during the
show solely represent those ofour host and the current
(49:55):
episode's guest.
Welcome to today's episode of Enduring the Badge
podcast.
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(00:22):
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bottom of my heart.
Special guest today is ChrisPerry.
How are you doing, chris?
(00:43):
Good sir, how are you?
I'm doing great.
Thank you for asking and thankyou for taking the time to be on
today.
Chris, can you tell theaudience a little bit about
yourself and maybe a little bitabout what you're doing?
Chris (00:56):
I've been a police officer for 30 years now.
I retired from CincinnatiPolice Department in February of
this year, started at anotheragency just outside of
Cincinnati called AmberleyVillage Police Department.
My job there is that of asenior resource officer, which
(01:17):
is a program that that's kind ofstarted from the ground up.
Building this program it's justwhat I tell people is.
It's a program that is justdoing what we used to do for
people.
So as you were growing up, youalways took care of the older
people in your neighborhood.
(01:38):
You know if they needed theirgrass cut or they needed,
sometimes they just wanted totalk cut or they needed they,
sometimes they just wanted totalk.
So that's what I think of.
It is um, but I'm doing thatfrom the position of being a
police officer.
So I'm just a few months intothat.
We launched it in may.
Things are going really well.
People are excited about it.
(01:59):
I'm excited about it, um.
I think the best part of it forme is through 30 years of being
a police officer.
I, you know, the day I retiredI looked back and I thought what
have I really done?
And you know, as a policeman,you respond, you take care of
(02:19):
the situation and then it'sfinished.
There's nothing tangibleafterwards, so there's no real.
There's nothing tangibleafterwards, so there's no real,
and there's nothing to hang yourhat on.
What did I accomplish?
So I look back at 30 years andI got this opportunity and now I
can see the things that I'mdoing and it's, it's a rush.
(02:42):
I mean, it is an absolute rush.
And I'm, I'm, uh, I'm addictedto adrenaline.
I race motorcycles.
You know, I've been in themotorcycles my whole life.
Um, and this is that, that kindof rush, but it's doing
something really worthwhile,that that makes an impact on
people's lives, and I can see it.
So it's, you know, best job Iever had.
Jerry (03:06):
I'll say that why did the department think there was a
need for something like this?
This is the first I've heardabout it in personally in the
country so, yeah, that's, that'swhat we kind of looked at.
Chris (03:17):
Um, in amberly village there is a large percentage of
people of that age.
You know boomers getting olderand we all know the aging
process.
I personally experienced losingmy mom to Alzheimer's right.
So I saw the numbers with thatand I started looking at things
(03:45):
and I thought, okay, that issomething I need to pursue and
educate myself on.
So I got a hold of somebodyfrom the Alzheimer's Association
and I'm bringing that into thisprogram as well as assisting
seniors in getting connectedwith resources.
You know, I can't do it all,the police department can't do
it all, but I can show you whereto go and who to meet with and
(04:09):
I do not.
I can't stand the idea ofsomebody being by themselves all
the time, locked in their housewith no contact, you know, and
that's so damaging to people youknow nobody to talk to that say
they can't drive, they can'tget out and they're basically a
prisoner in their own home, andthat's not the way that you
(04:31):
should spend the remainder ofyour life.
So that's the motivation.
Jerry (04:36):
Yeah, that's some.
That's some great motivation.
I know my mom's in her 80s andluckily she can still drive.
She doesn't have a lot of uh,social like network around her.
You know, maybe as much as sheshe could use or need.
So even though I'm I'm fairlyclose, it's still very lonely
(04:56):
for her.
Um right, you worked super hardto get to this place of
retirement and to enjoy thegolden years of your life, but
that doesn't really stop.
Those things aren't the waythey used to be.
Chris (05:12):
I guess a lot of things have changed no, no, and, like
today, it leads to isolation,you know, and there's nothing
that will damage your mind, andthen it affects your body, you
know, and you lose hope.
You don't have any interaction,and so what we're doing is we
(05:34):
connect people with resourcesand then connect them with
opportunities to be a volunteer,and I can tell you, just from
the volunteer work that I'vedone, like I I mean, I don't
hide my feelings at all Iactually have cold chills up and
down my arms right now like tovolunteer and to make someone
smile is one of the coolestthings in the world.
(05:56):
Yeah, you know, I spent 30years in some of the worst
neighborhoods I could possiblybe in and, you know, doing some
some high-speed stuff, and itnever I was.
I was never that excited aboutit as I am now doing things for
senior citizens and it's likeyou look at people that, like
you just said, they've workedtheir entire life to get where
(06:17):
they are right now and itshouldn't be spent in solitude.
Jerry (06:21):
Yeah.
Chris (06:22):
Yeah, and I love to see him smile.
That is fantastic.
Jerry (06:27):
You can't put a price on it well, they just they still
have things to give.
Right, they still have a lot toto give and to contribute to
the world.
I mean, uh, they have.
There's a lot of historicalknowledge that they have and
sometimes it's super interestingto hear, like, what's happened
(06:47):
over time, if they're able toshare those memories.
But, right, we're talking aboutAlzheimer's and how you know,
that is really just super hard,not only on the person but the
family as well.
Chris (07:02):
Yeah, it's devastating.
I saw the effects of thatpersonally family as well.
Yeah, it's devastating.
I saw the effects of thatpersonally.
Yeah, there's.
It's an incredibly crueldisease and there are,
unfortunately, there's, a lot ofpeople that don't know what
resources are available.
So that's another.
Another approach that we have toit is making people aware of
(07:25):
what is actually there for them,and I do a lot of work in
wellness for first responders,and the number one thing I
always say is you know you don'thave to do this alone.
There's no reason to do italone.
There are people that will helpyou.
I know the world is screwed upright now and there's a lot of
division.
People that will help you.
I know the world is screwed upright now and there's a lot of
(07:46):
division, but there's still somefantastic people that care.
And when you see that, it givesyou a new perspective on what's
going on in the world, becauseif you watch the news, you will
get depressed and you will think, oh, it's over, humanity is
lost, right.
But Then you see people doingsome incredibly selfless things
and you get hope from it andit's not.
(08:07):
It's not anything other thanjust people being concerned, for
you know their fellow fellowman and that's something that
we've lost as a society and I dofeel positive about it.
I see a lot of that and I seeit coming back.
I think people are starting towake up.
(08:27):
It's not just about you, andthat's a theme that kind of
resonated through my journeypost PTSD was when I started
telling my story.
It's not about me, that storyis not about me.
That story is about me helpingother people.
So you know, when you firststart talking about it it's
(08:51):
awkward.
You know that's some of themost personal stuff in the world
, especially in the firstresponder community.
Like you never showed a mentalhealth issue, are you kidding me
, like in when I was a young,that was the kind of thing that
would destroy your career.
Jerry (09:05):
Sure.
Chris (09:06):
You would never get a preferred assignment.
You would be thought of andlabeled.
You thought of poorly andlabeled and pretty much your
career is over.
Now I see that changing.
I think it's absolutelyfantastic.
I love it, put it out front infront of everybody.
And I took a big, a big riskwhen I when I started speaking
(09:26):
about it, but I'd gotten to apoint where I didn't care.
And when you reach a point inyour life where you don't care
what other people think, it'sthe most liberating feeling you
can have.
You know, and I I just put itout there and people received it
and I got this just inner calmand peace and I thought, yes,
(09:49):
for and I know it's not reallythe first time in my life that I
did something positive forpeople, but that's how it felt.
You know, I could.
I could see people's faces whenI would talk about the darkest
days and how to get help andwhat therapy looks like, and
then the later stages of comingout of therapy and rebuilding
(10:10):
your life and seeing beautifulthings again.
But of course, we're alwaysthere.
But now you have the ability toappreciate them and literally
see them and for me, like we cantalk about it if you you want,
but it's sunsets for me was thebig thing but I, I get you, I
(10:30):
get you.
Jerry (10:31):
Uh, before I retired, I would sit out on my back of my
house and watch this, the sun godown and, um, my wife's a big
sunset fan, you know, she takespictures almost nightly of the
sunsets and stuff like that, andso it just what it did for me,
and I'm curious to how you need,how you aim to see the beauty
(10:54):
in things.
For me it was just taking thetime, and it's still taking some
time to do this is like just tobe present enough to see,
really to slow down enough andsee that beauty.
That was always there, but yourhead was never in a place to
slow down to, to see it or enjoyit.
Absolutely terrible it is.
Chris (11:16):
it's like, it's like a prison for your brain, yeah, and
so my moment was.
So I remember a quote fromyears ago that I read and I did
not understand it and I itdidn't really make sense to me,
but it was, and I don't know whowrote it, but it was, or who
said it, but it was.
Be here now and it's supersimple, but my brain could not
(11:40):
put it together.
Yeah, so, post PTSD, you knowyou have to relearn everything
emotions, just how you think,and people that have never
experienced it have no idea howhard it is to pull yourself out
of that pit.
(12:01):
So I started racing motorcyclesagain on towards the end of the
PTSD recovery phase.
I didn't realize what I wasdoing at the time, but I was
teaching myself how to ride thisstyle of of of motorcycle, of a
dirt track bike or flat trackbike.
I had road race before I hadnever ridden in the dirt, so I'm
(12:23):
teaching myself how to do thisroad race before I had never
ridden in the dirt, so I'mteaching myself how to do this,
alongside of me putting myselfback together and making myself
the person that I always shouldhave been wanted to be, whatever
you want to call it.
So I built my own track at myhouse.
I live out in the country.
(12:46):
It's an incredible story.
Like it sounds like BSsometimes when I tell it to
people, but I'm like it's not, Ilived it, you know.
But it's an incredible storyand I love it and I'm I'm
incredibly fortunate.
I am, and that's why I have noproblem giving back, like I'll
give anything to anybody just tohelp other people get out of
that bad spot.
So I was making this track andI'm riding around on my tractor,
(13:08):
I'm grading it and it's aroundsunset and I look towards the
west and I see this incrediblesunset and it's orange and blue
and red and gold and I sat thereand I just looked at it and I
started taking pictures.
Later that night, when I came inthe house I I asked my wife.
I said do we live in some kindof special spot where we can see
(13:31):
sunsets better than everybodyelse?
And she's just looking at melike what is wrong with them?
And she's like happens everynight?
I said I knew that.
But you just see it.
(13:52):
It sucks that you, you can misssomething as beautiful as a
sunset because of this kid.
You know the state of mind thatyou're in.
Yeah but it's uh, every sunsetmeans something to me.
Jerry (14:05):
Yeah, it gave me a lot of like time to just process
emotions, yeah.
Yeah, what I mean?
Was there something did youfeel like when you're on the
track or when you're making thistrack and stuff like that, did
(14:26):
you feel like you're in the zone, like this was like meant to be
.
This felt just, I don't know,like a big thrill of energy
through you.
Chris (14:37):
Yeah, it was hyper focus.
So, like pretty much my entirelife, I was always like goal
driven and I couldn't focusunless I had, you know, a
predefined goal, like there's amission, there has to be a
mission to drive towards,otherwise, if it didn't hold my
(14:57):
attention, it didn't happen.
But when I looked at this, thegoal was I wanna be really good
at this type of racing.
I had success as a road racer.
I'm 50, I'll be 52 in October,so I'm 50 years old and I start
looking around and I'm thinkingyou're really gonna start racing
again at 50, right, I've had 10surgeries knees, wrists,
(15:21):
shoulders and I thought this isprobably not a good idea.
But there's still gas left inmy tank, right.
So I got to get out there and Igot to.
I have to accomplish something.
So the end goal was I want tostart winning races at this.
I've never done it before.
So, yeah, just hyper-focusedand extremely driven, and I
(15:44):
pushed hard.
I made it happen, startedwinning races, seeing success,
and it's really crazy the way itmirrored my progress of coming
out of PTSD and rebuilding mylife, and I didn't realize that
the two were mirroring eachother like they were, but when I
got towards.
I mean, let's face it, healingfrom something like that is
(16:06):
never going to be.
There's never, there's not anend.
You know there's a constantmaintenance phase and you always
have to drive to be battles.
(16:26):
You know I train, I train hard.
You know I put a lot of laps in, I analyze what I'm doing, I
record my laps with my phone, Igo over them, you know, and
watch my lap times, watch mybody position and everything.
And that's what I do with, withmy you know, my personal life.
Where are we going with this?
What do we need to adjust?
What can I do better?
Can I approach this in adifferent way?
Is there a different techniquefor this?
(16:47):
And then, when you see success,it's every, every bit of energy
that you put into it is 100%worth it and it's winning.
You know that's, that's anotherwin, that, yeah, they may be
small wins and maybe nobody elsereally would recognize the win,
but it's the win for me and Idon't want to sound arrogant or
(17:12):
whatever, but that's all that'sreally important.
You know, when you look at itis is those wins.
When I win, everybody else canwin, because I'm in a good spot
and I can.
I can push forward and sharethe information that I have
learned.
You know, and other peopledon't have to.
You know, go the road bythemselves.
(17:35):
So it's funny because and justnow popped in my head that this
is what's going on.
So I've I've taught like threeother people how to how to race
these types of motorcycles andI've I've talked to so many,
countless people coming out ofptsd and, you know, other mental
health issues, and I showedthem the way.
(17:56):
So it's just the way the thingsmirror each other.
It's amazing to me, but it's.
I will say it was meant to becalled divine intervention,
whatever you want to call it.
I'm, I'm way more spiritual nowthan I've ever been in my
entire life, than I've ever beenin my entire life.
(18:16):
Yeah, there's a higher power.
I don't know exactly which oneit is, but there's something
there a lot bigger than us, andyou know the desire.
You know, approaching 52 yearsold is burning brighter than
it's ever been in my entire life.
Jerry (18:34):
So so, chris, am I hearing you correctly?
Correctly, like you're able tofill yourself up from motor
strike writing all this joy andyour cup is almost overflowing,
and just so you're able to giveback yeah, that's, that's what
it is.
Chris (18:51):
And you know, I, I came off, the last race weekend I had
was the best race weekend yet.
And I came in second weekendyet and I came in second right.
I was always the guy thatsecond place like to to uh, put
Ricky Bobby first, first loserright or whatever.
I said, um, but yeah, it wassecond place and I, I, I lost
(19:12):
the race by like half a wheellength, but it was.
It was the most fun I've everhad, you know.
And I come off the track.
I couldn't have been to berealistic about it.
I was probably happier withsecond than I would have been
with first, just because of thechase.
I worked my way through thepack and ran this guy down and
(19:33):
if I would have had one more lapor just a few more horsepower,
it would have been a win.
But I wasn't angry about it, Iwas thrilled to death.
And it's the same when you workwith somebody and they're in a
bad spot, you get them in a goodspot.
And then I'll just refer to themost incredible phone call I've
ever had.
(19:53):
It was Halloween of this pastyear, it was um halloween at
this this past year.
I get a phone call.
I look at the phone and we'reheading down to my niece's house
to take her her little boys,out trick-or-treating.
See the phone ring and Ithought man, what is this?
This is probably not going tobe good if he's calling me on a
night like this.
And um, this guy that I've beenworking with told me he said
the reason that I'm out able togo trick-or-treating tonight
(20:16):
with the kids is because of you.
And I said I don't reallyunderstand that.
And he said man, if I wouldn'thave met you, I wouldn't be here
, I would have killed myself.
And he's like you saved my life.
And my wife looked over at meand I had tears flowing down my
my face and she looked at me andwas like shaking her head, like
, oh, my god, what?
(20:36):
And I gave her a thumbs up andI said I didn't save your life,
you saved your life, I justshowed you the path.
And he's like no, man, if itweren't for you, I wouldn't be
here.
And at that moment I askedmyself I was like what else do
you want?
Is there a greater victory?
There's not.
(20:57):
Is there a greater victory?
There's not.
And I would trade every race,win, every accomplishment I've
ever had in my life to hear thatyeah, yeah, I mean it's and.
And then to do it several timesand each time is just as
special as the first.
(21:17):
I mean that you know, peoplecome into being a first
responder in a career andthey're like I want to make a
difference, and it's such aphrase that's kind of.
And when you really make adifference there's like I know
(21:50):
I've said a couple times,there's nothing greater To a
point where I don't.
Of course I'm happy.
I can tell you that I'mhonestly happy.
You know, I dealt 22 years.
I won't say I dealt with it.
(22:15):
I survived PTSD for 20.
Jerry (22:17):
Find true happiness and true peace is an incredible gift
and I'm extremely fortunate andI will never lose sight of that
.
Yeah, I have.
I have a lot of thoughts, um,cause it's a lot of good, a lot
of good uh content.
And, Chris, obviously you havea.
You have a great heart anddoing, doing great things to
help other other people, and Idon't mean to like to minimize
(22:39):
what you're doing, what you'redoing.
I want to encourage otherpeople to do what you're doing.
Do you think you're this issomething special about you, or
do you or do you think otherpeople can do this?
Chris (22:50):
I think other people can do it.
I think it's getting yourpriorities straight and being
honest with yourself.
That was hard, that was reallyhard, really looking at who you
are and what your values are.
And it's funny because it'skind of ironic, because if
(23:15):
you're not 100% and you don'tfocus on yourself to get
yourself right, you can't bethat for other people.
Right, they're going to get apercentage of what you could
give them.
So I call it selflessly selfish,right?
So I prioritize myself.
I am number one.
(23:35):
I have to be the best that Ican be to help other people.
I can't get run into the ground, I can't run out of energy,
because then these people aregetting cheated, they're not
getting what they need.
And the people that were reallyinfluential in getting me to
the point where I could bediagnosed with PTSD and then the
(23:56):
after, you know, the rebuildingphase, there were people that
gave me everything that they had, you know, and they were
selfless and they were honest.
And there were times when theywere so honest that it that it
angered me but they were tellingme the truth, you know, and you
can't get angry with the truth.
You can't.
You have to.
(24:17):
You have to get rid of that andsay this is, this is, if it's
someone you trust and someoneyou know has your best interests
, right?
If you look at it and you thinkthey're not saying this to be
mean, they're saying this tohelp me and is it bitter?
Yeah, it is, it sucks.
But then you sit there and ifyou reflect on it you think,
(24:39):
yeah, I did that, I said that,or I didn't do what I should
have done.
I wasn't the best friend that Ishould have been Most
importantly to me, I wasn't thehusband I should have been.
There was never any abuse,anything like that.
It was nothing physical, but Iwas, wasn't present.
That's that's horrible.
(25:02):
But then the key to that isself-forgiveness, because if I
wallow in that sadness from thething that I failed to do, I'm
never going to get any better,Right, you know?
So why I'm that's.
It's just that would bedestroying everything I worked
for, you know, and so I workedon being a good husband, um,
(25:27):
being open, emotional.
I mean.
I was emotionally dead for 22years, um, and one of the things
is my wife and I were out atour house walking our dog around
our pond and I saw her.
I looked over and saw her hand.
(25:47):
I reached over and I startedholding her hand as we walked
and she just kind of looked atme and I was like well, I said
what?
And she goes I love this, butit's weird and my feelings for
her man, I man, I was like weird.
And she's like Chris, you gotto understand, this version of
you is not who I married.
And I said I don't know why youmarried me.
(26:09):
That version I wouldn't haveand I would have left me a
hundred times over.
And she's like I knew what youwere dealing with.
I wasn't sure what exactly itwas.
She's like I love this versionof you, but it is an adjustment
and I think that's anotherimportant thing for people to
understand is that on top of therecovery phase is another
(26:32):
mountain to climb, but you haveto look at it with a positive
attitude.
You have to have a positiveattitude and you have to look at
it with a positive attitude.
You have to have a positiveattitude and you have to have
self-forgiveness, and I thinkself-forgiveness is probably a
little more important.
(26:57):
Um, you can't hold on to thepast.
The past is the reminder ofwhat not to be and I might.
That's another one of my goals.
I'm driven to get there.
You know, um, showing emotion,that's another thing.
That's hard and the thing thatirritates me is the fact there's
no roadmap for recovery.
(27:18):
No, but nobody tells you how todo it.
So, to mirror the dirt trackracing, there's no one to teach
you how to do that.
Like there's there's, likethere's nothing.
You ask people are like what doI do?
Like we go fast and turn left.
I'm there's more to it thanthat.
(27:38):
Like the quote is, is it'seasiest thing to do, but it's
easier, it's the hardest thingto do.
Well, in the flat track, racingand the recovery from PTSD
mirror each other Exactly andit's that recovery phase that
people are missing.
There's there just because you,you, you.
There's one of the guys Iworked with calls it PTSD school
(28:00):
.
You know you get out of you,get out of therapy.
So you look at it and you'relike, okay, well, ptsd isn't a
thing anymore.
But now what do I do?
And that's like no man's landand you have to figure it out.
And it's an incredible learningexperience.
(28:21):
It's a valuable phase in yourlife.
You'll learn tremendous amountsof things about yourself and
about other people during that.
But at some point people haveto have somebody to rely on that
can show them the path, andthat's one of the things I
really like to do.
(28:42):
And people will call me andthey'll say well, is this, is
this normal?
I was like, well, yeah.
And then the story I tellpeople is when I was in a good
space after PTSD and my emotionsstarted coming back, my wife
and I were watching a Lifetimemovie and they're all the same
(29:03):
script.
You know I'm watching the movieand it was a really sad part,
like the husband passed away orwhatever, and I had tears in my
eyes and I thought am I losingit?
Am I going backwards?
So you know, I called a reallygood friend of mine who's a
doctor and I said am I losing it?
Am I going backwards?
So you know, I call a reallygood friend of mine who's a
doctor and I said, hey, is this,is this normal?
And you know she kind ofgiggled and she's like that's
(29:26):
awesome, chris, that's fantastic, that's a healthy emotion, but
it's you have to have somebodyto bounce that stuff off of
Cause, otherwise you're going tobe full of doubts, like did I
really?
Did I gain any ground?
Did I make it?
Am I where I'm supposed to be?
But there's really no way to toknow.
But then if people network andthey have people they can trust,
(29:48):
then you can say, yes, that'sabsolutely normal.
Something we were always toldthrough the process of our
careers is yeah, you don't showany emotion, rub some dirt on it
, bury it.
Um, and especially Gen X I mean, I'm Gen X and that's how we
were brought up.
You know show no weakness.
Crying is weakness, you know.
(30:08):
No matter what it was, you justbury it, you know.
Or they tell you go, go have afew few drinks, and it's like
the most unhealthy way way todeal with anything is what we
were preached, you know yeah so,yeah, but uh, I'm in a good
spot now and I'm loving life.
(30:29):
I never thought it would bepossible, but and I'll never say
I did it by myself, I never didit by myself it takes a group
of people that care and a groupof people that have been there,
and that's why it's so importantfor you know things like peer
support.
Yes, you can have somebodythat's going to, and I tell
(30:49):
people like I'm not going tohave your back, I'm going to be
beside you.
We're going to walk throughthis together and like we're
going to hit it hard together.
Like we're going to hit it hardtogether, it's.
It's not going to be mecatching you when you fall.
I'm going to to be right nextto you while we go through every
step of this.
When you do that, people aregoing to have success.
You know you can't turn yourback on them.
(31:12):
God, it's frustrating sometimes, you know, and you, you catch
yourself.
You're like, why can't you getthis?
But then you think to yourselflike, oh, I remember I was that
guy.
Jerry (31:22):
I was that guy that didn't get it.
Chris (31:23):
Yeah, so there's, there's , there's no judgment, but you
want it so bad for them.
You know yeah.
Jerry (31:31):
Yeah.
Chris (31:34):
But that's period of my life.
I'll say that.
Jerry (31:39):
It sounds amazing.
It sounds like an amazingjourney.
I definitely can understand itwas not easy and it did not
happen overnight, but I thinkfrom what I'm hearing is a lot
of like just chipping away at it.
Right, it was a lot of like I'mfeeling this it right, there's
a lot of like, I'm feeling this.
Okay, let me just sit with this, and I don't know if analyze
(32:04):
this is the right word orwhatever like sit with it and
and then just like okay, is thisa good emotion?
This is a bad emotion.
Where is it coming from?
How do I deal with it?
Like, and just take the time toprocess it, because what I
think tends to happen to mostrisk responders especially you
know you're just work, right,just this repetitive cycle of
(32:24):
work, work, work, work, work,home, work, home work.
If you're in the in that modeto like, sit and process your
emotions, like until somethingprobably really strikes you hard
yeah, yeah, there, there has tobe some moment that's
(32:47):
life-changing.
Chris (32:49):
You know where you think, man, that was.
That was horrible, yeah, and Ididn't have that until like the
last three years of of my career, where I saw, you know, I was
in a traffic unit so we didfatal and serious crashes and I
went to a scene of probably theworst fatal I've ever seen and I
(33:11):
was in a healthy place and Ilooked at everything.
I thought, god, this isincredibly damaging, this is
horrible.
My approach to it and to thewitnesses was completely
different than anything I'd everdone in my entire life.
I did the the police part of it, did my interviews, recorded
interviews, did everything Ineeded to do for the
(33:34):
investigation.
Then afterwards I called thesewere all young people, you know,
21 and 19 years old.
I pulled them together and Isaid, hey, this isn't me talking
as a policeman to you right now, it's just one human being to
another one, I said this is I'venever seen anything like this
myself.
This is not normal.
(33:57):
You may need to get helpprocessing this and these are
the places that you can go andthese are the ways to get
through this, because this isnever going to leave your mind,
but there's a way to process itand deal with it so it doesn't
destroy you.
And they looked at me and theysaid we've never heard a
(34:18):
policeman talk like this before.
I said, because I'm not apoliceman right now I said I get
it.
You know, this is bigger thanthat.
This is about you guys.
Um, I walked away from that andI had a big smile on my face.
I felt I was proud.
I thought I would have neverdone that before.
Yeah, that was a win.
You know, I, I, I talk aboutthose small wins.
(34:39):
I'm sure they didn't see it asa win.
They're just like oh, this guyreally cares, but that was a
huge win for me.
And I keep track of those winsand anytime you start feeling
down or negative, look back onyour wins.
That'll drive you, that'll fillyour gas tank back up and just
go hammer down and push further,see how much you can accomplish
(35:02):
and, um, that's like what anincredible change of events for
me.
You know it's just.
You know you get a peer supportgroup.
You get, you know, cliniciansthat know how to process trauma.
(35:23):
They know what they're doing.
You know they're culturallycompetent because they're let's
face it, we're a very uniqueculture.
Yes, right, and there's not alot of people that can
understand us, um, but when youget matched up with the right
therapist, I mean it's fullspeed ahead and yeah, I mean, I
(35:47):
mean I'm thrilled where I am now.
I just it's a point where youalmost feel guilty.
You know, like I shouldn't feelthis good, but I do feel this
good and I'm not ashamed of it.
It's I'm blessed.
I know that's another termthat's overused.
Sometimes things just are whatthey are.
(36:09):
Know I've been very fortunate.
I'm blessed, um, I love helpingpeople.
You know it's.
I've never thought so at 30years of a career.
My only goal when I retired wasI wanted to buy a gravel truck
and haul gravel right, and Iwanted to go from point a to
point b.
(36:30):
You order your gravel, Ideliver a drop where you want.
I don't have to talk to anybody, I don't have to feel anybody's
pain or see horrible things.
But then I started thinkingabout.
I was like that's not, that'snot me, and then I came out of
this whole ptsd fog and I waslike you still have so much to
give and so many experiencesthat will be lost unless you
(36:54):
share them with people.
And so that was.
I mean, there's a lot ofmotivating factors, but that was
, that was a huge one.
It was like I I paid a price,you know.
But I don't regret paying thatprice, cause if had I not gone
through the hell that I did, Iwouldn't be where I am today.
Jerry (37:10):
Sure.
Chris (37:11):
And not one of those 22 years is somebody asked me once
aren't you bitter about losing22 years of your life?
I didn't lose 22 years of mylife.
That's what I had to go throughto get where I am today.
It's not lost.
Jerry (37:25):
Right To probably appreciate life at the level
that you appreciate life and thelevel that you can contribute
to society and your family andfriends and stuff like that.
You know you mentioned somethingso funny, like I wanted to be a
gravel truck and go from pointA to point B, and you know I'm
not talking about you feelanything.
(37:45):
I really wish I had a poll.
I pull right now and this waslive, to see how many people
would be like oh yeah, that'show I feel too, because that's
what I hear, right, I hear fromall the people around me like
I'm like and I'm not that person, I'm like, why would you want
to do that?
Why would you want to go juststock shelf someplace and just
have that job?
And so for some people probablyit makes them happy and fills
(38:09):
them up and you know just to doit.
But I'm like you've had such acareer it's been so engaging
with people and surrounded bypeople, and now you're just
going to like retire and justcut the people out of your life
Totally.
It's definitely not, not goingto be healthy.
Chris (38:27):
No, and like you said, for some people that may work,
but for me it wasn't going to behealthy.
No, and like you said, for somepeople that may work, but for
me it wasn't going to work and Iknew that.
And then that that's anotherthing.
That kind of puts you in thatspace where you're thinking
where do I go now because I'mnot going to be happy driving a
gravel truck.
I have to have interaction andI have to have like I need goals
(38:48):
.
You know whether it's to knock asecond off of a lap time or to
get somebody to the point whereyou know they're, they have a
great relationship with theirkids, or they can get back with,
you know, get in a good placewith their spouse where they
were just existing together theywere basically like roommates
(39:09):
and then they tell you you knowwe, we have date nights and you
know we have a great romanticrelationship now and I truly
still love this person beforeI've fallen in love with them
again yeah it's like you know,like, what else do you want and
I said that before but like,like being able to help a family
(39:33):
get back together so that kidsdon't grow up in a broken home.
You know, I don't know this isyou're, I never would have go
ahead.
Jerry (39:44):
you're off to great things.
No, you're good, you're off.
You're off doing great andamazing things and, and you can
tell, I can tell when peoplewill watch this, you know, on
YouTube or whatever, see thesound bites of this, they'll see
, like you have, that justhappiness is like radiating from
you, like and enjoy, and youknow I can hear the fulfillment
(40:06):
and you know I can hear thefulfillment and you know, and
just the love to help people andlike, yeah, that 22 years got
you to the person you are today,which seems pretty amazing to
me, chris, and like there'sdefinitely, you know, in the
first respond world need morepeople like you to help others,
(40:31):
get better and do better yep andI.
Chris (40:37):
I just I had one key person in my life that set it
all in motion.
Um I an incredible thing thathappened.
I for a long time I askedmyself why and how, and then I
got to a point where I justthought this is once again.
This is bigger than me.
(40:57):
I'm not sure how it happened.
Be honest with you, I don'treally care, because I'm here
now.
I mean, what's, what's to ask?
You know, yeah, you know I'mrarely am I speechless, but
(41:17):
trying to trying to convey whatthat that feels like when you
get to that point where you'redone asking and wondering why,
you just basically go fullcircle back to be here now.
You know, yeah, be where yourfeet are and just live in the
moment.
And you know, let's get it,let's go after it, and things
(41:41):
will be what they are and theycan be so much greater if you're
in a positive mindset.
You know, your head's clear andit's the way I look at racing
motorcycles now.
There's no, there's no, likeI'm not nervous.
I know if I go and I do thethings that I know how to do and
(42:03):
I give everything to it and Igo into it with a positive
mindset, I would be so much moresuccessful than I would have
been if I would have beenuptight and nervous and think
well, I have to get first.
You don't have to get first,you have to give your best, yeah
, but, and sometimes it's notfirst, sometimes it's not fifth,
but if you put an honest effortin and you work, that's the
(42:23):
best that you can do at the timeand take credit for it and
don't look at it Second place isfirst loser, and I mean for it
and don't look at it secondplace's first loser and I mean
that was bred into meyou know, so much negative
things that, yeah, and you know,and I know it's in different
(42:43):
generations as well, but it wasjust that thing where winning is
the only thing and you can'tenjoy what you're doing because
now this is something where, ifyou're not first, you're a
failure, and I don't subscribeto that theory anymore in any
way, shape or form.
But I will put myself first soI can have the ability to give
100% of myself.
(43:05):
I'm not going to risk myself.
I'm not going to go backwardsmyself.
Yeah, I'm not going to riskmyself.
I'm not going to go backwards.
I can pass someone onto anotherperson that maybe can deal with
this other person better, maybethey'll get along better.
Maybe I'm tired from work oryou know whatever.
But have enough self-awarenessto know this is probably not the
(43:28):
best person for me to work withright now, or, you know, I'm
not in the best spot right now.
So take some time, pull back,you know, gather yourself up and
then go after it again.
But the boundaries are huge,you know, and if you extend
those boundaries, then thatperson that you're trying to
help is not going to get whatthey need.
Jerry (43:51):
Right, yeah, you're so right Lesson learned.
Chris (43:56):
I learned that the hard way.
Um, it all turned out, but itwas.
It was one of those thingswhere I did that self-reflection
and I saw where I where Imessed up.
I didn't know any better whereI where I messed up, I didn't
know any better.
(44:16):
I was operating on my heart,just on my heart and and not
thinking about me as well as theother person and I.
Not a bad thing, learningexperience, you know.
So take this learningexperiences and you know, put
them back your head and drawfrom in the future yeah, chris.
Jerry (44:37):
Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you
think the audience should know?
Chris (44:43):
um, I would say when you're young and you're going
into the first responder field,remember more overtime equals
more trauma.
Live within your means.
That's huge Plan for the futurebecause, believe it or not, you
(45:07):
actually are going to make itinto your 50s and 60s.
And I never thought I would.
I wish I would have saved moremoney, I wish I would have made
better decisions, but we're allyoung and we make mistakes.
And take care of yourself.
Make yourself priority numberone period.
You are the most importantperson in the world and people
(45:31):
say.
People say well, what about mykids?
Well, if you're not 100, you'renot going to be the best
version of yourself for yourkids.
Yeah, think about it.
It only makes sense when youlook at it like that.
Um, so I can really think about, you know, is when you you see
the younger ones coming up andyou see yourself 30 years ago
(45:54):
and you get frustrated with them, like if you're a peer support
person working with youngerpeople, just think about where
you were, I mean don't losesight of that.
Don't forget where you came from.
We all made stupid mistakes andhad a screwed up attitude.
Right, you know we didn't knowyou.
You know you don't know whatyou don't know, but you know
(46:16):
just if you find somebody to belike that and you think, oh,
this person's a little bit goofyor whatever, just think back to
yourself how you were and thenapproach it like that and but be
there for regardless.
You know and it may it may takea couple times to connect, but
you know you can't give up andpeople, people are not
(46:38):
disposable, they're notthrowaways.
That's another, another thingthat I I hold to it.
We look at a person um say theywere a stellar employee and
they did an absolutely great joband they were fun to be around,
and you see this drastic change.
Ask why Ask the hard question?
(46:59):
Yeah, they may get angry withyou, but you may save their life
by asking the hard question.
Jerry (47:07):
Yeah, I agree with you there.
Chris (47:08):
You know, ask that question I've seen that so many
times throughout 30 years is wesaw somebody crumble and nobody
ever asked why.
They just said bad things aboutthem.
You know.
Yeah yeah, but nobody, ever,nobody ever bothered to dive
deep into it and put themselvesout there Right why we lost
(47:32):
people.
People died because of that.
That can't happen.
Jerry (47:41):
Yep, yeah, a lot of great wisdom, chris, a lot of great
things from it.
Where can people reach out toyou if they want to see what
you're doing?
Chris (47:56):
My email is C Perry.
Last name is P E R Y atAmberley villageorg, and
Amberley is spelled a M B E R LE Y.
I've done a couple otherpodcasts.
One was with Dave Leith fromthe Hero Academy.
I think it's episode 79.
That was the first one I did,but if anybody wants to speak to
(48:21):
me, get with me through myemail.
I'll help anybody that I can.
I'll never turn anybody away.
Another thing is and somepeople kind of look at me funny
and look at me sideways when Isay it I have no secrets.
If you ask me a question, I'llgive you an answer.
It may not be the answer youwere expecting or the answer
that you want, but it's anhonest answer and you know
(48:44):
that's the only way you learn.
Jerry (48:46):
Yeah, it's fair I'm not keeping it to myself nobody's
gonna benefit.
Chris (48:52):
Nobody's gonna benefit from my experiences unless I I
share them.
So they're not going to becensored.
Yeah, you know, it's just to methat's the best way yeah, well,
thank you so much for being ontoday.
I really appreciate it I Iappreciate the opportunity this.
This has been a good time.
I appreciate it.
Jerry (49:11):
Yeah, no, it's been awesome, Thank you.
Thanks again for listening.
Don't forget to rate and reviewthe show wherever you access
your podcast.
If you know someone that wouldbe great on the show, please get
a hold of our host, jerry DeanLund, through the Instagram
handles at Jerry fire and fuelor at enduring the badge podcast
(49:34):
, also by visiting the show'swebsite, enduring the badge
podcastcom for additionalmethods of contact and up to
date information regarding theshow.
Remember, the views andopinions expressed during the
show solely represent those ofour host and the current
(49:55):
episode's guest.
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