Lyle Workman: Guitarist and Film Composer Behind "Superbad" and "The 40-Year-Old Virgin."

Episode Transcript
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Norma (00:08):
Rich yes I don't know about you, but after talking to
Lyle Workman, I feel like I needto start a band I feel like we
need to start a band.

Rich (00:18):
Okay, so listen, sign me up.
Just let me know whatinstrument you want me to play.

Norma (00:22):
I'm there I think, I think I see you playing the
guitar you do yeah okay let's doit.

Rich (00:28):
Guy's a legend.
I mean, he's worked with somany people within the industry
Beck, Sting, Todd Rundgren Imean don't even get me started
on Lyle's film scores oh yeah,and I mean he's a mastermind
behind the music in Superbad,the 40-Year-Old Virgin and so
many more.

Norma (00:48):
His work is woven into some of the biggest films and TV
shows out there, I know.

Rich (00:53):
I know, I know and listen.
His journey is just as cool ashis music, from starting out as
a touring guitarist to composingHollywood.
I mean, Lyle's career is proofthat artists really never stop
evolving.

Norma (01:07):
I know they really don't right.
I mean, and let's be real, hisstories are just as legendary as
his music.
I mean, you know thebehind-the-scenes moments and
the unexpected turns and the wayhe approaches composing it was
mind-blowing.

Rich (01:21):
It is, you know, and just like any great solo Lyle, we ran
out of time, so, Lyle, you'vegot to come back.

Norma (01:30):
Yes, please, but until then get ready to step inside
the mind of a music legend.

Rich (01:38):
People, let's jam.

Norma (01:39):
Let's jam.

Rich (01:44):
Lyle Workman, film composer, musician, most
talented individual.
We are so honored and blessedto have you here today.
Thank you very, very much forcoming in.

Norma (01:54):
We really appreciate it.
You were awarded too.
I mean, you had a littlestanding ovation when you were
on stage at the Poppy JasperFilm Festival.
That was very nice.
I think you even had yourlittle groupies there, because I
think there was a lot of peoplethat wanted to talk to you.
I don't know if you knew that.
I think Mattie and a couple ofus were saying no, no, leave him
alone, leave him alone.
He's here to have a good timeas well.

Lyle Workman (02:13):
No, don't leave me alone.

Norma (02:14):
No, don't leave me alone.

You want the attention moment, you know, and
also having Randy, you know,announce me and say some nice
stuff, and a lot of the work isjust by myself.
So you don't really know theeffect that what you do has on
other people A lot of the time.
Most of the time you don't.
That's why it's really fungoing to the premiere to see

(02:39):
people actually react to thework.
That's a real fun thing.
It's like one of my favoriteaspects.

Rich (02:46):
It's funny We've been discussing this a few times over
the last couple of days BecauseI come here every couple of
months.
So you end up sitting on aplane listening to music or
listening to a film, watching afilm, and half the time I fall
asleep.
But when I'm half asleep andI've still got a film playing,
you realize how much of a filmis actually music, is the score,

(03:07):
and how little is actuallydialogue.
So when you actually look at itfrom that perspective, as we
said before we started, music isthe soul of a film.
It's the guts of it.
Really, it's the emotive partof it because it gives you know
something sensitive, somethingcatastrophic is about to happen.
It's the music that builds,because it gives you know
something sensitive is somethingcatastrophic is about to happen
.
It's the music that builds jaws.

(03:28):
You know, when you the theshark in the water, which you
hardly ever saw, it was themusic that built up to it.
That get got all the audiencelike on the edge of their seat
right.
So what you do is is phenomenal.
How did it start?
What was the catalyst to getyou into music?

The Beatles.

Rich (03:46):
The.

Beatles yeah, for people, my generation.
That's probably the number oneanswer you're going to hear.
Yeah, I know, We've actuallyheard it quite a few times yeah
just the scope, the universethat they created in music,
which was, in a way, a goodeducation, because you're

(04:08):
getting through them.
Popular music from the 40s andthe 50s, you know Paul McCartney
, stuff like Martha my Dear,something like that which was
like music his dad listened to,you know, and then rock and roll
your parents.

Norma (04:20):
do you grow up in it?

Well, they both loved music.
Okay, so my mother loved therock and roll of the day, which
would have been Fats Domino andChuck Berry and Elvis Presley,
right, you know that kind ofstuff where my dad was more
about country music Good countrymusic meaning Hank Williams and
that kind of stuff.
Got it got it.

Norma (04:42):
It sounds like your mom's taste of music probably
influenced you a little bit morenow.

I can relate more.

Norma (04:48):
Yeah to your mom.

Though as I became older some of the aspects of
country music are definitely inme too.
Some of the guitar playingRight Music was on.
We had the little record playerand it was on all the time.
It was definitely between thatand seeing the Beatles.
We're not seeing themphysically, but I remember

(05:11):
seeing them on TV.
I had to be maybe six years oldor something like that and I
remember.

Norma (05:16):
Oh, so you were young and it impacted you at that age.

Yeah, and so all the records came out.
I got every single record.

Norma (05:22):
Did your parents play an instrument?

My dad played a little bit of guitar.
Okay, but just for fun.

Rich (05:27):
you know, come home from work and just play cowboy songs,
but did that become yourinstrument of choice because of
that?

Yes, yes.
And so I got a guitar and thenhe taught me the basic chords
and I would just listen to theBeatles records and play my
guitar.
Oh, the shape.
That's the same shape there.
So I had a good ear so I couldpick stuff up and teach myself
the songs.
So I was playing a lot ofBeatles songs.

Norma (05:53):
And this was growing up, where this was in San Jose.
California, San Jose,California, okay.

Rich (05:59):
So did you learn to play music by ear, to start with?

Oh yes, Before you could actually before you could
read music For a long time.

Norma (06:04):
Yeah, I feel like a lot of musicians have that talent.
I think that's where theirsuperpower starts coming in to
play right and anything that youdecide to do right.
The one thing that you do bestwith the least amount of effort.
That becomes like your thing,and then, so were you writing
music when you were a kid?

Okay, just playing , just learning.

Norma (06:22):
So you had a band in high school?

Yeah, not until high school.
Then that's the time.
Now it's the Led Zeppelin andthe who, those kind of bands.
So that was the stuff that Iliked when I was in high school.
So you've got to be in a bandin high school.

Norma (06:36):
What was your band's name ?
Do you remember?

Well, there was one called Alpine, Alpine.

Norma (06:40):
Alpine.

And then the one that was when I was I guess this
was right after high school.
Directly out of high school wasa band called Chronix Chronix
With a K and an X.

Norma (06:54):
Oh.

Say K-R-O-N-I-X.

Norma (06:55):
It's very intentional.

Well, it's kind of new wavy, you know this is the
late 70s, early 80s.

Rich (07:00):
Right.
What is your favorite genre ofmusic?
What do you if you're listeningto it?
Are you just broad?

Yeah, it's all over the place.
I find, even when I speak withreally great jazz musicians I
don't consider myself a jazzmusician, although I can play
aspects of jazz but people thatare very, very good at that
style and I ask them what theylike, and it's the same thing.
It's essentially if it's goodmusic, it's good.

(07:29):
It doesn't matter the style,whether it's a great country
song, a great pop song, a greatrock and roll song, a great
reggae If it's good, if it hasintegrity, some sort of creative
spirit about it.
I find that all musicians reactto that kind of music, so I
don't really find people aresort of in one lane with what
they like.

(07:50):
It's generally the bestmusicians like all kinds of
music that I've found.

Norma (07:54):
Right right.

Rich (07:55):
In a band school college.
What came next?

For me it was being in bands that started
playing clubs and then, fromthat being in a band, started
playing clubs and then from thatbeing in a band that was
playing a lot of club dates andwe got popular locally and a
scout from Island Records heardabout us.
I guess a day in our guy we'dcall the clubs and if there was
a band or band's names he kepthearing, often they'd go take a

(08:24):
trip and see him.
So an agent from Island Recordscame out and saw us and said we
want to sign you.
That's what happened.

Norma (08:30):
And that was at what age?

Oh, I was probably 25, maybe something like that.
It was a band called BourgeoisTag, based out of Sacramento.
Yeah, this is a time whereyou're making very little
playing club dates, right?
I think I supplemented it withgiving guitar lessons.
Yeah, I literally lived in ahouse with four guys and I.
I was in the smallest room,which is basically a modified

(08:54):
closet about the size of thatroom.

Norma (08:56):
There we had enough for a bed yeah, and everyone had to
be laying down because if yougot up, yeah, exactly, it was
too crowded yeah, there would bea orange tree, and so I would
go to this.

At this point, I was living in San Jose and the
band was.
I was in Bushwha Tag was basedin sacramento, so I would just
bring a bag of oranges, you know.

Norma (09:15):
So I just have extra food , extra snacks and during this
whole journey, were your parentssupportive of you being a
musician?
They were, they Well, theyloved music very much.

Okay good, yeah.
So they thought it was, theyloved it and they saw that I had
talent.
So there was always support inthat area for me that's great.

Norma (09:32):
That's great Because those that don't those are
always harder stories.
But sometimes that also shapesyou right, because you want to
prove your siblings, I'll showthem Exactly.
I'll show them, and then I'lltake a picture and show it to
them.
But that also shapes you.

But it seems like you were encouraged through this
, through your I was encouraged,but I really didn't need it
because I was inspired.

Norma (09:53):
Who inspired you?
Well, again the same.
Okay, so those, but was thereanyone?

Basic music that I liked inspired me.
I wanted to learn how to playthat music.
Whatever it was, it was themusic you see in that, something
you want to aspire to, whetherit's great guitar playing or
songwriting or performing allthose things really.
And also you have to thinkabout in the mid-70s, about the

(10:22):
coolest thing you could be is amusician in a band.
If you're walking down thestreet and you're carrying a
guitar case, people are likewhoa.
It's not like that today.
I think I'm a busker.

Norma (10:34):
No, I think you're homeless.

Rich (10:37):
So music was your mentor, basically yeah, which is amazing
.
I mean, that's almost a calling.

I would think so, especially since I didn't.
My parents liked music and mydad played the guitar, but it
wasn't like I had thisincredible DNA.
My dad was a great jazzmusician or both parents were
classical-trained musicians.
It was none of that.
It was just something that Ireally wanted to do, and I had a
little help with a good ear.

Rich (11:07):
At 25, did you know the direction you wanted to do and I
had a little help with a goodear and uh, 25 did you know the
direction you wanted to go in orwas you still finding your way?

well, at that point it was still being in a
band, sure, making music, doingrecords, touring, playing live.
That was it at that time.

Rich (11:19):
How did you transition to the next phase in in your career
?
So how long was you in a bandfor?
How long were your bands, howlong were they in circulation
for?

Well, that first band, boucher Attack, was five
years, so we did two records.
The band broke up.
The second record that we did,the last record, was produced by
Todd Rundgren.
So we were big fans and thenTodd Rundgren enlisted our band
to be basically his band fans,and then Todd Rundgren enlisted
our band to be basically hisband, and so from that at that

(11:49):
point it was two more yearsplaying with with Todd Rundgren,
and so at that point I hadpeople started to recognize me
for as a studio musician and soI started getting that kind of
work as well were there anypeople there during your journey
that were giving you the breaks?

Norma (12:03):
because I feel like that's the other thing too where
, where, when you haveaspirations, but then there's
certain individuals that comeinto your life like you know
what, I'm going to give you ashot, or why don't you come here
?

Essentially anyone that would hire me.
That's awesome.
If you're doing somethingpeople like and they want part
of that for their project,they're going to hire you.

Rich (12:26):
Yeah, it's pretty simple okay, that's, that's, that's
pretty much it from being in aband to composing, and when you
were in the band did you composemusic.

So you, oh, yes, yeah I wrote so when, when I was
a kid when I say kid, I meanyou know 12, 13, 14 I always had
a little tape recorder.
So I record my guitar under thetape recorder.
I'd record stuff on the TV.
If it was a band playing on aTV show, I'd record it and try
to learn from that.

Norma (12:51):
It was a little reel-to-reels, so kind of
emulating what you were seeing.

So then I would write little half songs or chord
progressions, make up littlewords.
It was the beginning of mysongwriting, so I always had a
method of recording myself andthat really basically just got
more and more sophisticated as Ibecame more sophisticated as a
musician okay, uh, both as aplayer and as a songwriter and

(13:18):
eventually composer.
It's just, the technology hadto increase in order for me to
be able to do the things Iwanted to do.

Rich (13:24):
So within your band, you wrote some of the music.

Yes.

Rich (13:28):
Cool and then moved on from there.
So when the band split and youwent after there, did you go
straight into film?

No, at that point the band broke up, took a couple
of years with Todd Renegrandand then they did about five
years with an artist named FrankBlack, or also known as Black
Francis.
He's the founder of the bandPixies.
Interspersed in that is studiowork, playing other people's

(13:55):
records.
The studio work andspecifically working playing
guitar on another composer'sscores through him, is how I got
my break to compose.
Through that, through thatconnection, also through the
studio work, was a connectionled to co-scoring a John Favreau

(14:15):
film which film was that?
it was called "Made okay, yeahso it was "wingers, and then
made was the second one, so thatwas my first, the first film,
and so it was the second one, sothat was my first film, and so
it was basically having thatfilm under my belt, then meeting
this other composer and throughthis composer I ended up with a
Vice President of Music atUniversal in my studio because

(14:36):
he wanted a guitar player forhis own personal project and I
made sure that I had made.
Prior to him coming, I made aCD of my own music from that
movie made, as well as some ofmy other instrumental music and
some stuff, and I sent him offwith it and he called me and
goes.
I really like what you're doingand would you want your hand in

(14:57):
writing some additional musicfor a movie, and that eventually
led to this film that JuddApatow was one of the producers,
so I got music in that film.
Judd then signed a directorialdeal with Universal and his
first movie was 40-Year-OldVirgin and his music executive

(15:18):
championed me and Judd likedwhat I had done for the movie
and gave me a chance toessentially audition by doing
some a couple scenes, writingsome music, and I got the job
that way.
That's sort of being at theright place at the right time.
Part of it where the luck comesin is having the movie be so

(15:40):
successful, broke all kinds ofsummer records and was number
one for a couple weeks in a rowand I was basically an unknown.

Norma (15:48):
At that time.
Yeah, oh, so that reallyelevated you, yeah, I basically
kind of skipped to the front ofthe line.
Yeah, to the front of the line.
Yeah, yeah.

After I'd done Made, I thought, okay, I guess
what composers do is get agentsget representation.
I couldn't get a meeting withanybody.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
What Seriously?

Because it was just an independent film.

Norma (16:10):
That cost $5 million I see.
So they saw it almost like aone-hit wonder kind of deal,
right.

Well, it just wasn't that big of a movie.
It was a very modestindependent film, so that wasn't
enough to get anyone reallyinterested in me.
But now getting this movie withJudd and having it, I didn't
have an agent so everybodywanted to represent me.
So I went from nobody'sinterested to everyone was
interested.
Right right right.

Norma (16:35):
That's just the way it works yeah, I know that's the
thing about the industry, isn'tit?
I mean, you could be the mosttalented person, but it's the
association of something thatit's just almost like.
These are the three boxes youhave to tick.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah.

Norma (16:45):
And if you don't tick out those boxes, then it's like
you're not validated.
It's like someone else has tovalidate you.

You have to have some big moment Totally.

Norma (16:53):
You have to have.

Totally, totally.
So in the other side of mycareer, playing on a record that
a bunch of people liked Right,that will get you more work.
Yes, you liked that will getyou more work.
Yes, you know it could bereally good.
But if people don't see it orhear it, then it's really hard
to, even if the music's reallygreat, I know, you know.
So that's kind of been my.

(17:14):
The key for me to have thesedoors opening is having been
part of things that weresuccessful.

Norma (17:20):
Yeah, do you like co-writing?
You mentioned when you werefirst co-writing.
I always wondered howco-writing works.
Like, how does this?
I mean, first of all, thepartnership has to work well.
You have to feel comfortablewith each other Well being in a
band is kind of co-writing.
Oh, you're right.
You're right, it is being in aband.

Together, especially if you look at the
bands back in, like Genesis.
Yes, they basically livedtogether.

Norma (17:43):
And it's.

I got this little bit here, mate, what about this?
And then three months laterthey got this record or whatever
it is.
I've only composed one time andthe rest has been.

Norma (17:55):
So you play off each other, and I think also, too,
when you do off that, well,first of all, you have to all
like each other.
There has to be something thatconnects you, and then you build
off each other right.
But that's the magic I feelit's basically like any other
collaboration.

You know, in a working relationship you're
working together, but the otherperson can maybe see things that
you don't exactly so, listen, Isuppose you're working with
like-minded people.

Rich (18:22):
Yeah, you know you've got, obviously you've got the same
goal, but your work ethic is thesame, the type of thing that
you're aiming to get towards isthe same.

Norma (18:30):
Yeah, you're aligned.
When you're aligned, things areeasier, right.
Yeah, and so the blocks?
There's no blocks.
It's more like build on it orexpand on it or go deeper.

You're going a different, it's like a different
wavelength, almostenergetically and a lot of times
a collaboration can be mostlybuilt upon skill sets.
So, uh, in the case of thismovie with, uh, this john faber
called, made the person that washired.
He brought me into it becausehe saw that there's things I

(19:00):
could do that he wasn't as goodat, and vice versa.
So, okay, you do that, youhandle that part good at, and
vice versa.
So, okay, you do that, youhandle that part of it.
And okay, lyle, so you can bethat part of the music or an
aspect of the score that wouldbe a little bit more in my world
, would go to me, and vice versa.

Norma (19:20):
You know, at the Poppy Jasper Film Festival, when they
played your reel, it was justlike keep it going.
It was just oh, you, it wasjust oh.
You had people cheering becauseyou take people back right what
it meant and, of course, likeanything, music really does
evoke emotion.
But out of all your projectsthus far, do you have like some
of your favorites or some ofyour memorable projects that you

(19:41):
want to kind of share a littlebit of behind the scenes and why
they impacted you?

Rich (19:48):
No, okay, we've got to come up with another question
now.

Norma (19:52):
No, I just killed 10 minutes.
I know exactly.

The first things that come to mind is working
with people that you reallyrespect.
In the case of Todd Rundgrenwas a big one for me because I
loved his music for a long timeand so working having him
produce the band I was in washuge, and then when he asked us
to be his band, that was very.

(20:17):
That was yeah.
So I think about thatparticular period of my life and
I'm very fond of it.
The thing is, when you getthose opportunities to work with
people that you really respectand love what they do, it brings
the best out of you.
You're at the top of yourability because you're so
inspired and you want to be.

(20:37):
You want to bring your bestself.
I don't want to say rise to theoccasion, but you're just
inspired to yes.

Norma (20:46):
You birth something new too, and, as someone who creates
things like you're constantlylooking to either innovate or
create something out of magic,of the sheer fact of having two,
four beautiful souls togetherthat are just, you know they're
just, they're just doing theirthing right, yeah, and you trust
.
There's a trust aspect that'sattached to it too.
I feel like feel like Sure yeah,yeah, you know when I worked at

(21:08):
Lucasfilm one thing my favoritemeetings at Lucasfilm were when
we would get everyone togetherand we were working on character
development and then someonewould say something.
Then the artist would just getup on the whiteboard and just
start drawing, and then somebodyelse would get something, pull
out a guitar and start playingnotes, and it literally felt
like it was a true war room,almost.

(21:31):
So you're saying characterdevelopment, for For you know TV
series and you know the filmsthat we were working on, right?
Oh, okay, so we're talkingabout because we go a little
deeper on the character, right?
What would the character like?
What would he do, blah, blaheven associate that maybe it
wasn't going to be on the filmor the TV series.
It's just, we were trying tobring the character to life so
we can create scenes and we canjust build off each other, and

(21:56):
it was.
You know, sometimes it wasliterally we were trying to
solve something, or we were justtrying to stir creativity in
the room, right, so then wecould problem solve something
else.

And that's working in tandem with writers.

Norma (22:11):
Yes, exactly, it would have writers, artists, you know,
we would have a little bit ofeveryone in the team, almost
like a little bit of the castand crew.
But one thing I really loved iswhen everybody was there, being
their authentic self andcontributing Like you know.
And you could feel whensomeone's contributing and no
one's really hoarding the mic,so to speak, everyone's really
balancing off each other.
You birth some amazing stuffand you almost go into this

(22:31):
euphoric.
I don't know, I almost feellike you're drugged or something
, and it just, it just comes outbeautifully.
And that was one thing that Ilike to say that, working under
George, he always taught me whenyou're in the presence of that,
never interrupt the magic, justlet it go.
Because there's times whereyour ego's like oh, but that
goes against the blah, blah,blah, don't shut up, just let it

(22:53):
go, because it just it.
Just then.
I mean, I would imagine thatthat's probably what you know
when you, when you, when youcome out of a session, you're
like oh, my God, we just came upwith our first single, or you
know, projects are created thatway it's.

It's beautiful when that happens, but it does
start with getting the rightpeople in the room and you kind
of touched upon something thebiggest value is to be the
listener and not the presenter,you know, and so I'm much more
happier to listen than I am tospeak and give my ideas.
I'd rather hear what otherpeople have to say, which I

(23:26):
think, having said that, that ishelpful to be a composer
because you really have tolisten.
It's all listening.
It's so important to theprocess and that's also when you
learn.
You really learn by sayingthings you already know.
You learn by listening to whatother people have to say.

Rich (23:48):
Listen, you're obviously a highly creative individual
because you're taking I take itwhen you're creating a score for
a film.
You're sitting down, maybeearly development, you're
getting understanding what thestory is about, hearing what the
characters are like, characterdevelopment, and then you're
writing music To fit thosepeople, those characters.

(24:08):
That must take a lot.
I mean, it's the intelligenceand the integrity and that, the
just sheer skill that you, thatyou must have to be able to do
that Is, is second to none.
But it must be for you, it mustbe like an amazing journey
doing that because you, everytime you're doing something,
you're doing it from fresh,because every story is different
.
You know someone, you know itmight be a love story, it might
be a thriller, it might be anaction film, whatever it is.

(24:30):
So the type of music thatyou're creating for that film is
going to vary.
Each one.
It must be.
I mean, how do you?
You must love that.

It must be great sitting there yes, it's, uh, you
know, there there can be aidsby means of temporary music
that's placed.
Sure, the director and a musiceditor or film editor will put
placeholder music Right.
Okay, just to have a place,just to have something to start
from which could be run thegamut from.

(25:00):
We really like the way thismusic feels to.
We hate this music, but we hadto find something just to give
it some pacing.
Sure, and sometimes there's nomusic where it is a little bit
more or is quite more, a bitmore, just, we don't know what
this needs.
It feels it needs somethingamazing or very difficult,

(25:27):
because the difficult part mightbe working with directors that
don't know, they're not reallysure, even if it's right, they
don't know if it's right, andjust the aspect of music can be
very difficult for some peopleyou, you know it's just not
their, it's really not theirthing.
You know what I mean.

(25:47):
So you hope that they havetrust in you, which happens
sometimes and sometimes itdoesn't.
The composing world can be.
It really runs the gamut.
It could be the greatest thingin the world or it can be very
difficult.
You know, that's just thereality of it.

Rich (26:02):
You're the expert, you're the professional in that room in
terms of music.
So if you're up against adirector, that is like I'm not
sure, I don't like it, but youknow 100% that is the right
music for the film.
Do you hold your line?
Is it something that you say,right, no, this is how it has to
be.
Or do you have to conform towhat Acquiesce?

(26:23):
Yeah, acquiesce is probably abetter word.
Yeah, conform to what?
Acquiesce is probably a betterword?
Yeah, yes.

You're providing a service, you're on the clock,
you're there, hired, to givethem what they want.
Sometimes you can be with, andI've had situations where I did
one movie they had music tempedin temporarily.
What I wanted to do wassomething completely different,

(26:50):
like particularly, it was thisopening scene where we're
getting to learn the character,and there was a song placed in
there, a really popular song.
What I had said to the director, who had been used to this
temporary music being in therefor a long time, he liked it.
My viewpoint was well, peopleare going to hear this song and

(27:11):
they're going to think about ohyeah, I was in high school when
that song was out.
And we're setting up thischaracter.
I would like to accompany thischaracter.
This character, not the songthat was written in 1973.
We had a show-and-tell in mystudio.
He came and he saw the cue andhe goes, and he didn't have any
reaction.
He goes, can I see it again?

(27:32):
I said sure.
So that happened about fivetimes in a row.
He said I think I just need tosit with it.
And then I love this.
I love this piece of music.
I can't believe how much betterit is.
But he had to just reframe itfor him.
So that was a perfect scenarioin where the director will trust

(27:55):
the persons.
Who's who is the?
The is the person in charge ofmaking music, who has had a
whole lot of time doing it, whohas a lot of history doing it
and experience.
Getting that trust is very it'snice when that happens.
I really you're allowed to dowhat I feel is your best work

(28:17):
when you have that kind ofrelationship and of course you
know they might want tweaks oralways, that's great.
I might interpret a sceneincorrectly as opposed to the
way he was seeing it.
He's great.
I might interpret a sceneincorrectly as opposed to the
way he was seeing it, he or she.
So I make adjustments and it'sa very collaborative scenario
that runs every aspect.

Norma (28:37):
You kind of have to play, I would imagine, because you're
right.
At the end of the day, it's thedirector, right?
It's someone else's film.
You have to interpret it.

Yeah.

Norma (28:44):
But you also are.

It's not my baby at all.
It someone else's film you haveto interpret it.

Norma (28:47):
Yeah, but you also are.
It's not my baby at all.
It's not your baby, no, but youalso are creative and you're an
expert at what you do andthat's why they're hiring you.
So I would imagine it's acareful dance where you're like
all right, let's try againtomorrow.
In some of the situations whereyou felt very strongly about a
certain it should go a certainway, but because it's there to
enhance, right and and pullpeople further into the story,

(29:08):
right yeah, and sometimes thecollaboration could be beautiful
and sometimes it just doesn'twork.

They just, they just.
You're just not on the samecreative wavelength and, as a
result, a lot of composers willjust get fired as a matter of
course.
You know it's a, it's typical,it's not let me put it this way
it's not uncommon for greatcomposers to get fired off of
projects.

Rich (29:32):
So a question for you.

Just the nature of the business you're in.

Rich (29:35):
Question for you.
So you have a script, you havea film, you're watching the
rushes and you're getting anidea of the character In your
mind.
How do you put the musictogether?
It might sound a bit of a sillyquestion, but you're having to
create music from the ground up.
It doesn't exist.
I suppose music is like writinga story musically.

(29:57):
So you're creating that.
I mean, where does the melodycome from?
Do you know what I mean?
It's like I mean you don'tagain.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like I mean you don'tagain correct me if I'm wrong.

Norma (30:08):
You don't pull off a shelf and say no, he's going to
say it just is you know I don'tknow, you know, I don't know how
it happens.

I really it's magical to me.

Rich (30:16):
Yeah, it is, it's magic.

That's why I love his life.
All I can say is that you get afeeling from seeing something
or reading something, and youfeel what that feeling is and
you play an instrument.
What comes out is a result ofthat, but how that happens.

Norma (30:34):
It's amazing when you witness as I was saying, going
back to what I was saying whenyou witness this happening, it's
as if you're going, you'reactually seeing someone's soul.
You guys, you get lost intothis.
It's just you're, you're almostyou're making up words in a
language, but then when it comesout, you're like holy crap,
that's what was going in yourhead oftentimes when I was

(30:57):
talking, even to like the, thesound editors at skywalker sound
, I'm like what's going in yourbrain?
Can I just, can you just showme a sliver of the algorithms
and the numbers and the symbolsthat's going on there?
But you're feeling things.
A lot of them would tell me no,we feel it.
We see already the end.
We don't know how we're goingto get there, but we already see
the end.
And somehow you go into yourspace and you go there, which I

(31:19):
would imagine.
That's what you do as an artist, right when you were writing
music.
You hear notes, do music, youhear notes, do you, do you walk
every day and you're likehealing, hearing your own melody
in your head and you're justhere.
It is it's coming.

Here's the output.
Yeah, yeah he's like yeah, Imean, for me I have to kind of
get in the right space.
But you know things like, youknow, there can be some
technical aspects that kind ofhelp like, yeah, it's a very
nervous character.
Or uh, let's say, okay, ascenario where a character is

(31:50):
saying something.
Let's say it's a, it's reallyfunny what he's saying, right,
but there's some, a whole lot ofpain behind what he's saying,
and so well, we don't want funnymusic, but what can we do to
get in his head a little bitmore?
You know what's this likecaustic sarcasm or something

(32:14):
like that.
There's a reason, it's funnythe words, but there's something
else going on underneath that.
What about what's that?
Can we bring some of that?
Because the thing is, for me,really good music is providing
subtext and not just giving youthe same exact thing that you're
saying.
It's providing something else.
It's providing another layerthat adds some depth to it.

Rich (32:38):
It does.
But also, I suppose, whatyou're doing you're not writing
the music.
You then select the instrumentsthat are going to play that
music.

Yeah, sure.

Rich (32:45):
So, you've got two tiers there.
So, you're having to think onmultiple levels at the same time
, to think, no, that's going tobe better being a saxophone, or
that's better a guitar, that'sbetter a piano, and that is.
I can't tell you the joy itbrings when you watch a film
because the scores I mean I'vegot loads of scores on my phone
that I just love to hear, I loveto listen to sometimes because

(33:08):
it brings back memories of whenwatching a film or certain parts
in a film that have meantsomething.

Norma (33:13):
The scenes.
It really heightens the scenesand it's a raft like the score.
You're just going down thisriver and it's going fast, slow,
lazy, but you stay on there andyou yourself, as a viewer, you
just get lost in it and you'regetting lost in the emotion
you're watching, whether it beheartache or laughter or joy or
abandonment.

(33:33):
It really just it like draws itout and you're almost like
you're crying inside.
So that's the beauty of whatthe soundtracks do and that's
what I mean.
Oftentimes it makes the filmand vice versa right.
Like really do work togetherthe sound and the music and it's
beautiful.
It's beautiful to watch, butit's more beautiful to see the
artist Like you guys are justlike witches or something.

(33:55):
You're just brewing your thingand Lyle's not going to tell you
that's a secret.
That's what makes Lyle Workmanget work.

Rich (34:00):
There's no secret really, it's a case of understanding.
I suppose when you get to hearyour music played out on a
soundstage, it must be when itcomes to life.
That's the tip.

That's the top of it.

Rich (34:11):
That's got to be.

When you've been spending time in your studio
staring at a computer screenworking with a computer.
Now you've got 70 peopleplaying your music.
Hello, that's the best.
That's got to be the best drugin the world.
It really is.
I get that.
It's the best part.
That's my favorite part of itbeing in that studio what

(34:34):
projects do you have brewing now?
no films right now, project I'vebeen working on with Meta of
all companies.
It's basically providinglibrary music or music that's
free to anyone on Instagram orFacebook Right.
I've been doing it for sevenyears.
Something like 250 songs in.

Norma (34:57):
Ooh is that so we can develop our little reels in our
stories?

Well, that's exactly right, the music behind
it.
I think they've got somethinglike 8,000 or 9,000 songs.

Norma (35:07):
They've got multiple writers.

But I've been doing it in between other work
and so that's kind of been anongoing thing and your music is
heard billions of timesthroughout the world and it's
been really fun for me becausethe people that have hired me
really like what I do, so theylet me do what I do and I've
released, and then I've alsoallowed their content creators

(35:32):
to put the music out, so I'vegot about 20 records out.
Oh, you do In 2020, I released17 records 17 records.
Eps slash records.
Yeah, yeah, yeah so it's all onApple Music, Spotify, you know,
under my name.
Oh, that's great.

Norma (35:48):
Oh well, we're about to make our Instagram stories and
our, you know much better withyour music than behind them.

Yeah, it's all there.
I mean it's just.

Rich (35:55):
What was your project or film were you most proud to have
worked on?
What would you say is yourhighlight?

I think the one that probably at the top would
be Superbad.
Oh, superbad.
I thought the movie was aclassic, iconic comedy that
defined a generation.
Yeah, and also the other aspectthat was really great about
that is the music for Superbadthat I wrote in keeping in the

(36:26):
spirit of the other music, thesongs that were placed, which
was all 70s funk and soul JamesBrown, parliament, bootsy
Collins, all that stuff.
So I was able to hire thosepeople as my band.
Must have been amazing.
So I got to work with thearchitects of the music as my
band and we spent four days atCapitol Records making the music
is my band and we spent fourdays at Capitol Records making

(36:47):
the music.
I'd written it before and itwas all demoed out, written it
ahead at the time and I'd sentthe music out to all the
musicians and so that was a realspecial experience and some of
those guys have passed awaysince.
But it was just a combinationof that music, the importance of
the film, and there's otherfilms I liked for different

(37:11):
reasons, different parameters,but that one is kind of a it's
fun.
It was a fun project to make.

Rich (37:19):
Do you get to play live?
I mean, obviously we saw youplay live at the Poppy Jazz, but
do you still enjoy it?
I take it you do.

Yeah, I just finished seven weeks on the road
with Sarah McLaughlin.
Yes, we're going to do.

Norma (37:29):
You're up in the Bay Area .

Yeah, we played Berkeley, the Greek Theater.
We were here at the HollywoodBowl, and then I'm going out for
another month in the fall Aweek in the States and then
three weeks in Canada becauseshe's a Canadian artist, and
then you're giving yourself abreak and then I do another.
The thing with Sarah was the30th anniversary of one of her

(37:51):
big records called FumblingTowards Ecstasy.
So it was the 30 yearanniversary of that record, and
the thing I'm doing after thistour with Sarah is another 30
year anniversary of a record,but this time I participated in
it and that was with that artist, frank Black from Pixies.
So we're going to do threeweeks performing that record and

(38:12):
it's going to be here in the US.
We're doing 12 or 13 dates.
We're going to be here in LA.

Norma (38:17):
Yes, we're playing the.

Orpheum.

Norma (38:19):
Oh, the Orpheum.

Yeah.

Norma (38:21):
That's such a great venue .

Rich (38:22):
Yeah.

Norma (38:23):
Yeah.

Rich (38:24):
Must be a great buzz when you're standing on stage and
you've got an audience.

Well, that's what I did for so long.
See, that was my life.
The start of that, I wasplaying in bands, touring with
other people, as a sideman inother people's bands.
Then the film scoring took overand then I didn't have time
Prior to Sarah, the longest tourI did.
Well, the most substantial tourwas in 2005, with Sting being a

(38:50):
part of his band, and then from2005 to 2024.
A couple of select dates herein town, a few small things, but
in terms of, we're going to beon a tour bus or a plane or
whatever and you were worldly, Imean, you were traveling right
from one country to anothercountry.

Norma (39:07):
Yeah, that must be different too, to feel that
energy from fans and you knowwhen you're traveling, when
you're changing cultures as wellright.

Yeah, it's the power of music.
Yeah, I know it's the universallanguage.

Norma (39:19):
It's the universal language that is so, so true.

Rich (39:22):
It is actually when you think about music now, you think
of any song.
Most songs, most popular songs,tend to be either British or
American, global.
Oh, it is, doesn't matter whatlanguage you speak.
You don't translate it into anyother language, it just it's
played and it's listened to inits native.

Norma (39:39):
And the thing is that music brings people together.
That's the thing.
You don't even have to speakthe language, but if a song's
coming out and they're boppingtheir head and they're moving,
they're like oh, wow.
I like them too, and that justimmediately.
That's something you startconnecting people with.

It's the one thing that all humanity shares is
music.
It's the thing that cancommunicate to every.
Does it matter what yourpolitical stance are, what your
how?
Whatever your political stanceare, how you're, it's the one
thing that connects us all, Ifeel.

Rich (40:09):
If you think about it, 400 or 500 years ago, people never
knew music.
Most people didn't know whatmusic was like.
Yes, you might have been elitein society, but poor people
didn't know what music was,because music wasn't played
anywhere.

Well, with drums and sticks, and yeah, there's
been music for a long time.

Norma (40:28):
Different types of music.

Regional, very regional.

Rich (40:31):
It's been very small what I'm saying is like you know, we
have the benefit.
Now you can download music.

Norma (40:35):
You can go anywhere.
You know you can't go anywherewithout hearing music on
something it's accessible now.

Rich (40:41):
So what I'm saying is we are very fortunate at the times
that we live in because backthen you know, 100, 200, 300,
400 years ago, before the adventof wireless, you know where
people would sit around awireless and listen to music or
the original record players.
They didn't have that joy intheir home.

Norma (40:58):
You know it's only recently, if you think about it,
that we have the ability tolisten to music, enjoy, stream
it, whatever it is play it overand over and over again and to
your neighbor says all right,all right with that song and
you're just like oh, I'm notdone with the story in my head
right that happened to me notthat long ago my neighbor, my
kid neighbor's, downstairs likeall right, norman, we know you

(41:20):
like sting, but why is it?
why is the song still playingover and over again?
And the thing is, you get socaught up in a memory or an
emotion and you forget, but youneed the music as a reminder,
right in the background it justgoes, how powerful the powerful
sound is.
But, Lyle, one thing we like todo with our guests is we like

(41:40):
to play a little game.
So, to your right, there's abox there full of cards and we'd
like to ask our guest to pickone.
And these are deep-rootedquestions.

Rich (41:53):
Any one you want.

Norma (41:53):
You pick a card, read the question out loud, take a
moment, answer it and we willanswer the same question.
Just pick any one, Any one youwant.
He's smelling the deck here,people.

Pick a good one because we want to answer good
one.
Can they change it?
No, if someone wanted to annoyyou easily, what would they have
to do?

Rich (42:20):
ask me on the podcast ask me questions ask-oh, we've
annoyed Lyle everyone.

Is this the one you want me to answer?

Norma (42:31):
If you like it, yeah.

Not respect another human being?

Norma (42:38):
Oh, that's beautiful.

Or not listen to them, not act with kindness?
Towards another human beingthat would be.
You know, seeing that is verydifficult.
I mean, I could make a wholelist of things.

Norma (42:56):
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah.

You know having to wait at the doctor's office for
an hour and a half you know, Idon't know, but I think the
first part of that was probablybetter.
My answer.

Norma (43:10):
I would add not only will it annoy me, it would make me
very upset when people bullyother people.
Oh, that's another one, ofcourse, that immediately I could
even see it happening, when Icould feel it happening.
I'm getting annoyed, but whenthey're really going at it I get
upset.
And it could even be somethingsimple, as at Starbucks or

(43:32):
whatever you know you're getting.
You're at a cafe and a manageris belittling another manager or
their subordinate or is gettingvery, very upset or is just
poking and poking and makingthem fail.
I can't stand when people dothat to one another and um,
because it and and to see theperson, the victim like, shrug

(43:54):
his, his or her shoulders andjust become like they want to be
invisible.
I don't like it invisible.
It annoys me and I think itjust stems from a childhood
thing.
I hated when kids, when gradeschool kids, were bullying other
grade school kids.
I was that one kid that saidstop it.
Yeah, so it just.
It really goes into my core.

Rich (44:15):
I could have done with you at school.

Norma (44:16):
What is that?

Rich (44:17):
I could have done with you at school.
Yeah, I would have helped you.

Norma (44:20):
I would have helped you, you would have done.

Rich (44:21):
Yes, I think my answer would be.
I mean, I agree with everythingyou both have just said.
I think what I would add tothat is lack of tolerance of
other people really irritates me, and hate.
We live in a world now wherepeople it's so easy to hate with
no basis of fact behind it,it's just because they've seen

(44:41):
something online.
We live in a world where thetruth is a lie and the lie
becomes the truth.
It're upside down.
And how does that ever becomeright?
And you get people that are soeasily guided or so easily
steered in a certain directionbecause of certain views that
they go down a rabbit hole ofwhich it's very hard to come out

(45:02):
of and they just hate for noreason.
They're intolerant of peopleBecause someone's slightly
different they don't tolerate,and it's wrong.
It annoys me because lifeshouldn't be that way.

Right, exactly.

Rich (45:16):
So that would be my answer .
All right, good answer.

Norma (45:20):
So the last thing we like to do is kind of an open mic
session.
Is there for our listeners anyadvice that you'd like to do is
kind of an open mic session?
Is there for our listeners anyadvice that you'd like to give
them Somebody, maybe somebodywho's trying to break into the
industry?
Words of wisdom, any mantrasyou live by?

Just follow your passion, you know.
Follow the.
Do the things that make youfeel most whole and honor your
creative spirit.
To me, that's I think that'sthe main thing.
Don't do what other peopleexpect of you.
Do what you want to do.
Just follow that.

Norma (46:00):
While listening to music.

Rich (46:03):
Actually, I just thought I'd ask a question.
Why are we a little bit out oftime?
Sorry, it was a beautifulending.

Norma (46:06):
It was a beautiful ending , but I I just wanted to pop
that in my head it was abeautiful ending, but I'm just
going to tack on to that.

Rich (46:10):
Did you have a mentor throughout your career?
Is there someone that I wish Ihad.

I've asked that before.
I really wish I had Dr JStevenson my 12th grade teacher,
or something.

Rich (46:27):
Yeah yeah.

No, you know again , just following the careers of
people that I really enjoy.
I like to have a great answerfor that.
Did you growing up as a child,not as a child?
I did have someone thatmentored me.
Okay, did you Growing up as achild Not?

Rich (46:46):
as a child, I did have someone that mentored me.

Norma (46:49):
One person One person.

Rich (46:51):
That's pretty nice, which was amazing, and unfortunately I
didn't understand a lot of thelessons I was being taught until
he passed away.
I got it, it clicked in my head, I understood what I was being
told and the reason why Iunderstood it, because it wasn't
there for me to ask anymore.
I had to rely on what I'd beentold in the past and it came out

(47:15):
.
I remembered certain lessonsthat I'd been taught right and
it, yeah, it helped.
It did and it still does helpme today, much as my
father-in-law and it's someonethat has you know.
It's someone that has you know.
It's something that has guidedme, has helped me become more
rounded as a human being.
And I'm grateful for that,because I wouldn't have maybe
been the person I am not I'msaying special but I wouldn't

(47:37):
have grown into who I am, donethe things I've done without
that sort of guidance.
Yes, so I've had that.
Yes, so I've had that.
And because I've had that in myworld, I try and give that back
to other people.
If I can do one good thingevery day to help someone out,
then my hope is one day theywill do one good thing to help
someone out and then that personmight do it.
So it's part of the pillars ofus is paying it forward, giving

(48:00):
something back.
Try and illuminate, navigate,help someone navigate certain
things, help inspire them to dosomething, spread a bit of
positivity.
These are sort of things thatNorma and I are doing as a
business.
It's what I try and do in myday-to-day to help other people
on their way.

That's wonderful yeah.

Rich (48:24):
But what you do is more wonderful because I do that
internally.
You get to please millions ofpeople, you know, and that
covers all the things I've justsaid.
You know your music isinspirational.
It guides people, itilluminates, it's all of these
things.
It's amazing, the talent youhave and the gift.

Norma (48:44):
That's your mentor right there, it's your gift.

Rich (48:48):
Your God-g given gift is amazing.
It has such an effect on people.
Well that's nice.

That aspect is something I don't really ever
consider or think about, becauseI'm just focused on making the
music you're just creating soit's very nice the Poppy
Festival.
Every once in a while I'mreminded that not getting the
job that I wanted or whateverthe other side of it is, I have

(49:15):
to remember that there's reallygood things that are beyond me,
that are past my studio and pastthis experience that I have
with these people.
That goes on, and so that'sreally nice.
It's nice to feel that everynow and again.

Rich (49:31):
So thank you.

Norma (49:32):
It was a pleasure.

Rich (49:33):
And what was lovely the song that you played, the
Ambrosia song, biggest Part ofMe when you came on with Randy
when we were there on the Fridaynight.

Is that what we?

Rich (49:41):
did.
Yeah, I barely remember that.

Norma (49:44):
It was a fun evening.
Yeah, it was too much fun.

Rich (49:47):
No, the remix.
I love the song.
I hadn't heard it that longbefore.

Norma (49:54):
So to hear it played, it was like, oh my God, it's
playing on stage.
When everyone was there, it waslike, oh, it was just
phenomenal.
The energy that you guys allhad on stage was so cool.
Oh, that was great.
That was really great.

Rich (50:02):
Oh that was great.
That was really great.

It really came across well, you mean the band
when we were playing, yeah, butwhat was particularly fun is
because Robert Berry, who wasplaying bass and singing, he was
a local legend in San Jose.
Yes, so I have a fondness forthose people that were in my
life early, and then the othergentleman I didn't know.
They're from my hood, my area,so there's just this thing you

(50:26):
know that you experience.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
But you go back.

Remember when.
Remember when, yeah, rememberwhen it was all orchards apricot
orchards.
Yeah, you're right Ross Dressfor Lesses and Starbucks.
So yeah, that was a really funexperience for me.

Norma (50:41):
That's a humbling experience to see.

Randy there and say the nice things he said.

Norma (50:46):
Yes.

And man, what a stellar man he is oh, he's great
.

Norma (50:50):
We'll be having him on our podcast soon.
But Randy Spendlove is, and youcould feel nothing but heart.
The love that he has that hegives back to the community
right.
Absolutely.
That's important.
Goes back to paying it forward.
Yeah absolutely Right, right,well, lyle, thank you so much
for being here my pleasure.

Thank you for having me.
It's been an honor, it's beenour pleasure.
Oh, so nice.

Norma (51:11):
Thank you, yes yes, we appreciate you and we'll
hopefully have you back againlater on in the podcast With a
guitar With a guitar.

Okay, no pressure.

Norma (51:30):
Maybe be fun.
Yeah, that would be fun.
Listen to some tunes and cut.
Thank you for tuning in toEnergis Podcast, where ambition
meets achievement.
If today's stories energized,you share this episode with
someone who needs that spark.
Stay connected, Subscribe toour newsletter at
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powerful insights.

(51:50):
Until next time, stay inspired,stay bold and keep striving for
greatness.

Rich (51:59):
Energy's podcast is produced and hosted by Norma
Garcia and Rich Reid theincredible talent behind us.
We are highly engineered andedited by Rich Evirs.
Our seriously creative directoris none other than David H
Tanaka.
Our talented music composer isSteve Devaney.
Our devotion to motion graphicdesigner is Mike Macklin.

(52:20):
Our very spirited technicaladvisor is Tracy Williams.
Our Amazing Marketing Manager,Lauren Carter.
Our man of Many Words Publicistis Josh Gershman.
And introducing our Producer'sAssistant, Blake Miele.
Energis Podcast is brought toyou by NRJ Media Group.

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Episode Transcript

Host

Norma Garcia & Rich J. Reid

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