October 29, 2024 • 21 mins
Discover the transformative world of clean energy workforce development with Paul Douglas, the dynamic president and CEO of the JPI Group. Join us as Paul shares his personal journey from a minority-focused workforce development program to leading one of the largest minority-owned companies in the energy efficiency sector. Explore how the JPI Group is harnessing state and federal funding to create high-paying jobs, bridge the wealth gap, and ensure underserved communities thrive. Learn about the challenges and triumphs in meeting Justice40 requirements and the essential role of genuine opportunities for minorities and small, minority-owned companies in today's energy landscape.
Uncover the power of mentorship and inclusivity as we discuss the strategies that major companies like Google, Amazon, and Facebook use to nurture talent and foster diverse, supportive work environments. This episode shines a light on the critical need for diverse recruiting teams and inclusive hiring practices in the rapidly growing clean energy sector. From personal stories of transformation to actionable insights, envision a future where clean energy jobs break generational cycles and make a meaningful impact on communities. Tune in for an engaging conversation that highlights the necessity of inclusivity and mentorship in driving industry growth and creating sustainable career paths.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jen Szaro, AESP (00:08):
Welcome to AESP's Energy Beat podcast.
I'm your host, jen Zarro, andtoday we're recording live in
the Suncast studio at RE Plus inAnaheim, california.
I'm joined by Paul Douglas,president of the JPI Group and
co-founder of CareerEquity, fora timely discussion on
(00:32):
energizing the next generationof clean energy workforce.
We're very excited to be heretoday.
I'm Jen Zarro, I am the CEO ofthe Association of Energy
Services Professionals, and withme today is Paul Douglas, the
president of JPI Group.
Paul, you want to quicklyintroduce yourself.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (00:45):
Sure , good afternoon.
My name is Paul Douglas, thepresident of JPI Group.
Paul, you want to quicklyintroduce yourself?
Sure, good afternoon.
My name is Paul Douglas.
I am the president and CEO ofthe JPI Group.
We provide energy efficiencyand workforce development
support across the country.
We're one of the largestminority-owned companies in the
space, with close to 300consultants and working in 38
states.
I'm excited to be here today toshare our experience.
Jen Szaro, AESP (01:05):
And you've got some good ones.
I think there's a lot to learnfrom your experiences so far and
as the clean energy sectorcontinues to expand thanks to
significant state and federalfunding, we have to step up to
meet the demands of thoseprojects and make sure that we
can actually get theinfrastructure out there that
was intended to be released withthe IIJA funding and the IRA
funding.
So today we're going to talk alittle bit about how we staff up
(01:28):
and staff up kind of at warpspeed to make sure we can meet
all of the program requirementsfor these programs.
So I'm going to start by justtalking about JPI Group first
and how you're helping move thatalong and how you're helping
different organizations that youserve meet the Justice 40
requirements, specifically forrelevant federal incentives.
(01:51):
So we're going to talk a littlebit about that.
We're going to talk about howwe create high-paying jobs in
this industry, not justentry-level boots-on-the-ground
jobs, but high-payingprofessional jobs as well.
So start by telling me a littlebit about JPI's approach to
tackling the workforce demandsin the clean energy sector.
Paul Douglas, CareerEqu (02:10):
Awesome .
So I always like to start offby giving maybe a personal story
.
So, as I mentioned, fromBaltimore City I'm not sure if
anyone else here is fromBaltimore.
I think it's 45 degrees backhome right now.
So I'm excited to be here onthe West Coast.
But I had the opportunity when Iwas a freshman in college to
join a program called En-ROADS,and many of us may not know what
En-ROADS is, but En-ROADS is aprogram that's focused on
(02:32):
helping minoritiesAfrican-Americans, hispanics to
get jobs in corporate America,and I was lucky enough to be
part of a workforce developmentprogram at age 18, which is the
only reason why I probably standin front of here today at this
podcast.
So I give that background tokind of maybe show where the
passion and the mission comesfrom for our company, so JPI
Group as a whole.
We have a mission to decreasethe wealth gap and I tell folks
(02:54):
all the time that thisopportunity right now in the
energy sector is a once in alifetime opportunity.
The amount of money, the amountof funding that's happening
right now is right in front ofus and many of us have no idea
that it's happening.
So we're focused on making surethat we provide knowledge.
(03:21):
We do community outreach and weeducate the folks that are
unaware of what's happening, notjust the job seekers, but also
small minority women-ownedcompanies that they need to know
what's happening today in theindustry.
So, jpa as a whole, again, wesupport these utility projects.
Jen Szaro, AESP (03:28):
We support implemented projects by making
sure that we're inclusive, we'rebringing in small,
minority-owned companies toexecute on, whether it's solar,
energy efficiency or batterystorage projects across the
country, historicallyunderrepresented.
What you don't often hear aboutis a lot of these programs
require community benefits,funds and programs to go with
the local community where you'redistributing this funding.
(03:51):
It's sort of an afterthought.
There isn't often a solid planin place for these local
communities.
So how would you say, becauseof that, this influx of state
and federal funding is reallyshaping the clean energy
sector's workforce needs, andhow do we make sure we're not
missing that piece of it inthese local communities, to make
sure we're building up thesecommunities and creating local
(04:12):
jobs and not just kind ofbringing someone in and doing
the work and then leaving?
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (04:17):
Got it.
So I've done a lot of researchon the community benefit plan
and the Justice40 plans and theone thing that I'm not concerned
is when you use the termbenefits.
Benefits is a very vague termthat we get thrown around often.
So I take the approach of whatare the true data that we can
track to ensure we can seesuccess right.
So when I look at communitybenefit plans and Justice 40, I
(04:38):
think number one around jobplacement, like how many folks
actually got the job?
Not, they were trained.
Because what happens?
A lot of these funds come inand folks are trained but they
(05:01):
don't receive the job.
Number two is how many small orminority owned companies
actually get communities.
Were they trained?
So are we training individualsin just solar?
Are we training individuals injust energy efficiency?
Because what happens if wetrain them in solar and they
don't get a job in solar?
They get a job in anothersector.
Then the training was for nil.
So we have to make sure thatwe're training individuals and
they're getting the job in thesector that they're supposed to
get the job in.
We track wage growth because ifI train you, you were making $12
(05:23):
an hour.
I don't want you making $13 anhour.
That's irrelevant.
So we really track the wageincrease over time.
I don't want folks to get jobsI say all the time they need to
get careers so we're puttingfolks into opportunities where
they have a trajectory forgrowth, not to make $30,000, to
make six figures, because that'swhat it takes to be successful.
Those are the.
When I hear community benefitand Justice40, I try to maybe
(05:46):
make it a little bit simpler.
What are the actual data, themetrics?
How can I see success?
And the one thing that I tell alot of our clients and I tell a
lot of our constituents is makesure you're measuring where we
are today and where we are inthe future.
Right now, I think there's alot of money that may come in
that we may not measure thesuccess for our concerns.
Jen Szaro, AESP (06:04):
I do really worry about that.
I mean with Justice 40, therapid nature of getting these
funds out there, especiallybefore the next election cycle,
I think, is putting a lot ofpressure on not just the folks
within the White House and theOMB, but also on those in our
industry that are trying to gearup fast enough to be able to do
this.
And I know with us we received,you know, some funding to do
(06:27):
some training for demandflexibility, and I was dismayed
to see how kind of not clear themethodology was for tracking
your metrics and your progress,and so we really struggled with
that and it wanted to make surewe were reaching the right
audience, but found that thedata that was available through
(06:48):
the economic justice screeningtool that they've created for
this wasn't giving us theanswers that we needed,
unfortunately.
So anyone here done marketing,you have to do paid ads with zip
codes.
You can't do it based on censusdata.
You have to have zip codes tobe able to purchase ads.
Do it based on, you know, censusdata.
You have to have zip codes tobe able to purchase ads, and
(07:11):
what we found in our work withthis as a major issue of
identifying the right communitymembers is they don't have that
data.
It's not a layer, so weactually had to go out and
create that.
So that's just one example of apain point of one grant
recipient trying to do something.
Tell me, what advice would yougive to clean energy providers
who are struggling to findqualified workers for their
projects related to Justice 40and just in general, to get
(07:32):
these projects done quickly andeffectively and meet the metrics
?
That was really meant to beabout.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (07:38):
I'll maybe try to share a story.
I think this was maybe two orthree years ago.
We worked with a PSCNG.
Pscng is a utility that's basedin New Jersey and they wanted
to hire close to 65 field techsand energy auditors to support
their residential and commercialprogram.
I think what happens a lot withthese workforce programs is we
(07:59):
may not realize the amount ofwork that it takes.
It's not a one-to-one ratio.
You don't talk to one personthat one person gets the job.
We had to talk to thousands ofpeople to screen hundreds to
hire 60.
And sometimes I think we don'tthink about the effort that it's
going to take to be successful.
We just assume the money comesin.
You train two people, those twofolks get the job.
(08:20):
It's a lot of work.
Jen Szaro, AESP (08:22):
And then if you're hiring as a full-time
equivalent, like an FTE employee, you've also got the
institutional knowledge that youhave to then educate them about
for that organization.
So culturally they also have tounderstand that piece of it and
be onboarded.
And I know you have some greatonboarding tools through your
equity tools.
So tell me a little bit aboutthat tool specifically and how
(08:43):
you help usher in this nextgeneration of clean energy
professionals into a workplacelike that.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (08:50):
I'll stick with the PSCNG example.
So we had to hire, train,develop 60 people.
It took us 3,000 phone screens,hundreds of interviews to hire
those 60 folks.
What we also know is that whenyou do a workforce program, you
have trainers, you havewraparound services, you have
employers, you have smallbusiness, you have unions, you
(09:10):
have a variety of stakeholdersinvolved and when those
stakeholders are involvedthere's a lot of data that needs
to be collected and that'snormally collected in SharePoint
Excel emails.
So we realized not only was theprogram difficult, it was also
difficult for us to track thedata that was needed by the
governor's office and by theutility.
So we built out a software toolthat allowed us to at least
(09:34):
gather the data from all thestakeholders.
So the nonprofits knew thatthey referred over six people,
the career training organizationknew that we trained an ex, the
employees knew that there wasex-minded people available.
So that helped us at that pointin time to kind of grow and
scale the people available.
So that helped us at that pointin time to kind of grow and
scale.
We're starting to see acrossthe country that a lot of the
sieges, the California actionagencies, the NYSERDAs, the mass
(09:56):
saves, they're all realizing wecan't keep doing this manually.
Jen Szaro, AESP (10:00):
Yeah.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (10:05):
We have to put something in place
to actually allow us to seewhat's happening.
Who got the money, who wasplaced, who was trained, who
needs wraparound services?
Do they get it in time, likeall those things we talk about,
is it can no longer be trackedin a very fragmented way.
We have to create morecontinuity, more accountability,
more transparency for thosethings to happen.
Jen Szaro, AESP (10:19):
Yeah, I'm so impressed with what you've done
there and it's such an amazingtool to be using.
The one piece I remember youshowing me was about mentoring
within organizations to helppeople truly onboard with those
organizations and you know, havea peer that they can ask those
hard questions to about theculture, or you know just what
the norms are socially withinthat organization.
(10:40):
I mean, for me, let's talk aboutthe importance of mentorship in
our efforts AESP really focuseson this into bringing the next
generation in.
We try to pair our emergingprofessionals up with, you know,
our industry veterans, helpthem understand what it takes to
get to that job level and howthey grow their careers and help
them sort of map that out.
And you're kind of doing thesame thing, you know, with your
(11:01):
tool, but in within theseorganizations themselves, and to
me this not only really helpsget people comfortable with
being within the industry but italso really helps pass that
institutional knowledge you knowdown effectively, because we do
have a lot of folks retiringfrom the industry, especially
the utility sector.
We're losing that institutionalknowledge and so you need both
(11:23):
how to think forward as well ashow to learn from the past and
tell me how mentoring can reallyhelp with that.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (11:30):
So I look at mentoring as maybe
personally, I think it's theonly way that you can develop
and grow.
I think if you talk to mostsuccessful people in life,
whatever they define as success,they had a mentor along the way
, whether it's sports, whetherit's business, whether it's home
, whether it's being a parent.
Like we're asking for adviceall the time and no one does it
alone.
And I think we're expectingpeople to come into this
(11:52):
industry alone without advice,without mentorship.
And it's funny, the more folksI've talked to that's been in
this space for a while, theysaid I didn't learn anything
watching videos and LMS andreading.
I learned it by doing.
Yeah absolutely so.
I think there is a significantopportunity to align more
mentorship programs within thesector.
I'll give you guys a few datapoints.
The most successful companiesthat retain their employees have
(12:14):
mentorship programs.
The Googles, the Amazons, theFacebooks.
They have mentorship and theydo that because there's a
psychological value there.
If I'm mentoring Jen and I'mthe leader for Jen, the job is
no longer about the job.
The job is about how can Iensure Jen can be successful.
So it's a missed opportunity ifyou're an employer and
absolutely if you're a mentee.
That's how you learn.
(12:35):
Till this day, I sit down withsomeone every week or every
couple of weeks to learn fromthem and I think sometimes,
being a mentor, you actuallylearn more.
That's the irony of the whole.
Jen Szaro, AESP (12:43):
Thing.
Paul Douglas, CareerEqu (12:43):
Because you realize all the stuff
you're not doing.
Jen Szaro, AESP (12:49):
I love.
I've mentored people and I'vebeen mentored and it's so neat
to see people that I've mentorednow that are in the industry
and they're professionals andthey are now the mentor to the
next generation.
You know, how do we keep thatgoing to really ensure that
transfer of knowledge continuesand that people find their way
through the industry effectivelyso they're not getting stuck,
let's say, in a customer servicerole or a marketing entry-level
(13:11):
position, but they're actuallyfinding a path forward within
this industry.
It's growing, as you can see.
We have over 40,000 people hereat just this one conference.
It's growing faster than we caneven imagine.
So how do we keep pullingpeople into this and keep
growing that next generation?
Paul Douglas, CareerEqu (13:27):
There's a couple of potential
bottlenecks because, when itcomes to we talked a little bit
about diversity and DEI there'snot a lot of diverse employees
in this space, right, I thinkthe numbers in mid-teens.
So when you go to mentorship,sometimes folks that are being
mentored like to be mentored byfolks that have similar
experiences, similar backgrounds.
So that's a gap for us that weneed to fix.
Number two is we want to assignmentors that can have honest,
(13:51):
candid conversation.
Right, I mean, again, I try tobe as candid as I can.
Sometimes I can't tell my bossthat, hey, at home I literally
don't have enough money to getto work or I have a mental
health issue.
So I look at a mentor as notsomeone that I have a formal
conversation with.
It's someone that I can reallytell what's going on in my life
and where I need the most help.
And when you talk about helpingunderrepresented communities
(14:12):
and disadvantaged communities,you need to have a real
conversation with theseindividuals.
It's not a formal HR in theoffice conversation.
It's a sometimes, I hate to say, like off the record
conversation, like hey, tell mewhat's really going on.
So the mentorship also has tobe a candid, transparent,
authentic mentorship.
That has to happen.
But again, I think this is aprogram that some tend to look
(14:33):
over and it's such a criticalinflection point to retain
people and allow more diversecandidates into your company.
Jen Szaro, AESP (14:38):
Yeah, I think you can easily get people in.
Well, I wouldn't say easily,because you still have to
struggle to find people but it'sretention too, and I think
that's where mentorship playsthe most important role.
It's retention too, and I thinkthat's where mentorship plays
the most important role.
It's on retention Growing thatnext generation, keeping them
engaged in this industry so theydon't go to telecom or go to
something else.
It's building the community andbuilding the relationships.
(14:59):
To me that really matters.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (15:01):
And I'll give a good example.
We work with another utilitywhere part of the onboarding was
well… we'll have them talk to amentor every two weeks and
we'll have them talk to theirmanager.
But we actually had the mentortalk to the manager and the
employee.
So once a month, every threeweeks, we'll get all three
together and have a conversation, because sometimes the mentor
was actually able to give andarticulate the message in a more
(15:22):
formal way than the candidatewas, but we got the point across
.
So, whether it's training,whether they need help with
something, so the mentor againand the manager if you can
create that tripod of aconversation, that's something
we've seen a lot of success in.
That's such a great idea.
Jen Szaro, AESP (15:36):
Yeah, look, I love bringing them together
because there are things youdon't want to say to your
supervisor but need to be said.
Of course, you know you needhelp and you don't know how to
ask for it.
Even I think it's reallyimportant.
So how do we move forward?
To me, it's not even a question.
(16:15):
It is important to build aninclusive culture for this
industry Within the clean energysector.
I think it's the area ofhighest growth in the energy
sector.
We've got so much opportunity.
For me, I feel like we'vemissed the mark.
Still.
It's getting better, but westill miss the mark.
What are the specific stepsthat organizations can take to
change this?
How would you advise anorganization to truly reach out
and become a more inclusiveorganization if they're starting
at kind of everyone looks thesame?
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (16:26):
So I think most companies make
decisions based on their bottomline.
So is it profitable?
Is it net income?
So I think understanding thatis key.
And their bottom line so is itprofitable, is it net income?
So I think understanding thatis key.
And I speak to a lot of CEOs inrooms and I tell them the first
company to be the most inclusivewill be the most successful.
When you look at pure data andpure analytics and census data,
that's the demographics we'rehiring from.
So right now it's still alittle bit of a choice.
(16:49):
In 5, 10, 15 years it won't bea choice to be inclusive, it's
just the way that the census ismoving.
So companies that can reallytake a step back and look at the
data, look at the census, lookat the demographics and say, hey
, right now we're not, and kindof almost admit it to themselves
we're not diverse.
We have to get there.
That's the first step I seethere's an opportunity to make.
Second, it's looking at if we dohave diverse folks.
(17:12):
Are they leaving?
Because I think we're quick toalways say, hey, let's attract
all these new people into theindustry, but reality is we have
people that are leavingconstantly.
It just becomes a constantchurn.
So, really looking at, if folksare leaving, why are they
leaving?
What do we need to change today?
First step we need to takeCommunity culture.
I mean they call it, they sayDEI training, but I mean I say
(17:35):
just, really just go ask thefolks that work for your company
, like, hey, we need to retainfolks.
What are we doing and how canwe do it more effectively?
So that's the first step totake.
The next step is when you lookat where do we go?
Everyone tends to go to Indeed,linkedin, ziprecruiter.
We go to the same places tofind people over and over and
over again and we say, well, wecan't find diversity.
So we have to change thestrategy of how we find people
(17:57):
and where we find people.
I'll give you guys a hint thatI've seen a lot of companies do.
It's also who's doing therecruiting.
Jen Szaro, AESP (18:03):
Yeah, I mean, I've seen that play out.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (18:06):
If you have a non-diverse
recruiting team.
Sometimes it's a little bitharder to have a diverse
recruiting team.
Sometimes it's a little bitharder to have a diverse
recruiting strategy.
Jen Szaro, AESP (18:13):
I think there's trust issues, sometimes too
honestly.
So I think how you've got tothink about that and really be
proactive and intentional withthe whole hiring process, from
start to finish.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (18:24):
I agree.
And when I say diverse team, itcould be.
I've seen that sometimes mom'sgoing to have a different
conversation with another momyeah, absolutely, I've seen
young recruiters, old recruiters, have different conversations.
So I think it's really lookingat the team that's bringing
folks into your organization andcan they have the conversation
needed to bring folks in.
The last thing I think alsowhen it comes to inclusivity, is
in this sector, what I love themost is you actually do have an
(18:47):
opportunity to impact thecommunity we come from.
Yeah, right, and I don't thinkwe tell that story enough.
Like, this job that you canhave is not just another job.
If you do your job right, youcan remember that time when you
had to not buy X because theenergy bill was too high.
That's the problem and I don'tthink we tell that story enough
that the folks that are comingin, and I think we can get more
(19:08):
diversity if we really share thevalue proposition to this job.
Jen Szaro, AESP (19:12):
I love that.
Yeah, I mean, energy burden iscontinuing to be an issue for
the communities that Justice 40is trying to serve, and yet
somehow we're just not quitegetting there with it.
Well, I know we've got to wrapup, so you know, just before we
do that, could you just sharefor me because you've always
inspired me your vision for thefuture of workforce development
(19:32):
and clean energy?
You know, considering all thefunds that are being poured into
this and the growth rates thatwe're seeing across the board on
all clean technologies, Ialways like to maybe share a
quick story.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (19:44):
So my first job out of school, I
was a recruiter and I had a ladythat she got a job and the job
was paying at that point maybe$8.56, from what I recall, and
she filled out her paperwork andshe called back the next day
and she goes hey, paul, is thereany way that I can make $9.50?
Do you know why she needed tomake $9.50, jen?
Why do you think?
Jen Szaro, AESP (20:05):
No idea, that's a.
That's a strange request.
It's very specific.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (20:09):
It felt strange when I was 21,.
But she said, paul, that's whatI need to go get approved for a
mortgage, wow.
So I always share that storyand that's why I do what I do
today because these jobs, theopportunity that this energy
transition can offer us, it canswitch generational wealth.
People can buy a home.
Once she buys a home, her kidsgo to a different school.
(20:31):
Her kids go to a differentschool, they get a degree.
It changes the generationalcurse in some communities and
that's the problem we're solvingand that's what we don't talk
about often.
So back to what do I envision?
I envision this opportunityreally impacting the communities
that need it the most and Ithink, if we can find them
better jobs, we can supportsmall business.
(20:51):
We talk about it, but I thinkwe have to make sure that it's
being done.
So I'm excited for that visionfor the future.
Jen Szaro, AESP (20:57):
Thank you so much, really appreciate your
time and we're going to wrap itup again Thank you to the Power
Up Live podcast and to Watzillafor hosting us and sponsoring,
and thanks to the Suncast Mediateam as well for having us here.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquit (21:10):
Thank you, Jen.
I appreciate it.
Thank you next time.
Welcome to AESP's Energy Beat podcast.
I'm your host, jen Zarro, andtoday we're recording live in
the Suncast studio at RE Plus inAnaheim, california.
I'm joined by Paul Douglas,president of the JPI Group and
co-founder of CareerEquity, fora timely discussion on
(00:32):
energizing the next generationof clean energy workforce.
We're very excited to be heretoday.
I'm Jen Zarro, I am the CEO ofthe Association of Energy
Services Professionals, and withme today is Paul Douglas, the
president of JPI Group.
Paul, you want to quicklyintroduce yourself.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (00:45):
Sure , good afternoon.
My name is Paul Douglas, thepresident of JPI Group.
Paul, you want to quicklyintroduce yourself?
Sure, good afternoon.
My name is Paul Douglas.
I am the president and CEO ofthe JPI Group.
We provide energy efficiencyand workforce development
support across the country.
We're one of the largestminority-owned companies in the
space, with close to 300consultants and working in 38
states.
I'm excited to be here today toshare our experience.
Jen Szaro, AESP (01:05):
And you've got some good ones.
I think there's a lot to learnfrom your experiences so far and
as the clean energy sectorcontinues to expand thanks to
significant state and federalfunding, we have to step up to
meet the demands of thoseprojects and make sure that we
can actually get theinfrastructure out there that
was intended to be released withthe IIJA funding and the IRA
funding.
So today we're going to talk alittle bit about how we staff up
(01:28):
and staff up kind of at warpspeed to make sure we can meet
all of the program requirementsfor these programs.
So I'm going to start by justtalking about JPI Group first
and how you're helping move thatalong and how you're helping
different organizations that youserve meet the Justice 40
requirements, specifically forrelevant federal incentives.
(01:51):
So we're going to talk a littlebit about that.
We're going to talk about howwe create high-paying jobs in
this industry, not justentry-level boots-on-the-ground
jobs, but high-payingprofessional jobs as well.
So start by telling me a littlebit about JPI's approach to
tackling the workforce demandsin the clean energy sector.
Paul Douglas, CareerEqu (02:10):
Awesome .
So I always like to start offby giving maybe a personal story
.
So, as I mentioned, fromBaltimore City I'm not sure if
anyone else here is fromBaltimore.
I think it's 45 degrees backhome right now.
So I'm excited to be here onthe West Coast.
But I had the opportunity when Iwas a freshman in college to
join a program called En-ROADS,and many of us may not know what
En-ROADS is, but En-ROADS is aprogram that's focused on
(02:32):
helping minoritiesAfrican-Americans, hispanics to
get jobs in corporate America,and I was lucky enough to be
part of a workforce developmentprogram at age 18, which is the
only reason why I probably standin front of here today at this
podcast.
So I give that background tokind of maybe show where the
passion and the mission comesfrom for our company, so JPI
Group as a whole.
We have a mission to decreasethe wealth gap and I tell folks
(02:54):
all the time that thisopportunity right now in the
energy sector is a once in alifetime opportunity.
The amount of money, the amountof funding that's happening
right now is right in front ofus and many of us have no idea
that it's happening.
So we're focused on making surethat we provide knowledge.
(03:21):
We do community outreach and weeducate the folks that are
unaware of what's happening, notjust the job seekers, but also
small minority women-ownedcompanies that they need to know
what's happening today in theindustry.
So, jpa as a whole, again, wesupport these utility projects.
Jen Szaro, AESP (03:28):
We support implemented projects by making
sure that we're inclusive, we'rebringing in small,
minority-owned companies toexecute on, whether it's solar,
energy efficiency or batterystorage projects across the
country, historicallyunderrepresented.
What you don't often hear aboutis a lot of these programs
require community benefits,funds and programs to go with
the local community where you'redistributing this funding.
(03:51):
It's sort of an afterthought.
There isn't often a solid planin place for these local
communities.
So how would you say, becauseof that, this influx of state
and federal funding is reallyshaping the clean energy
sector's workforce needs, andhow do we make sure we're not
missing that piece of it inthese local communities, to make
sure we're building up thesecommunities and creating local
(04:12):
jobs and not just kind ofbringing someone in and doing
the work and then leaving?
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (04:17):
Got it.
So I've done a lot of researchon the community benefit plan
and the Justice40 plans and theone thing that I'm not concerned
is when you use the termbenefits.
Benefits is a very vague termthat we get thrown around often.
So I take the approach of whatare the true data that we can
track to ensure we can seesuccess right.
So when I look at communitybenefit plans and Justice 40, I
(04:38):
think number one around jobplacement, like how many folks
actually got the job?
Not, they were trained.
Because what happens?
A lot of these funds come inand folks are trained but they
(05:01):
don't receive the job.
Number two is how many small orminority owned companies
actually get communities.
Were they trained?
So are we training individualsin just solar?
Are we training individuals injust energy efficiency?
Because what happens if wetrain them in solar and they
don't get a job in solar?
They get a job in anothersector.
Then the training was for nil.
So we have to make sure thatwe're training individuals and
they're getting the job in thesector that they're supposed to
get the job in.
We track wage growth because ifI train you, you were making $12
(05:23):
an hour.
I don't want you making $13 anhour.
That's irrelevant.
So we really track the wageincrease over time.
I don't want folks to get jobsI say all the time they need to
get careers so we're puttingfolks into opportunities where
they have a trajectory forgrowth, not to make $30,000, to
make six figures, because that'swhat it takes to be successful.
Those are the.
When I hear community benefitand Justice40, I try to maybe
(05:46):
make it a little bit simpler.
What are the actual data, themetrics?
How can I see success?
And the one thing that I tell alot of our clients and I tell a
lot of our constituents is makesure you're measuring where we
are today and where we are inthe future.
Right now, I think there's alot of money that may come in
that we may not measure thesuccess for our concerns.
Jen Szaro, AESP (06:04):
I do really worry about that.
I mean with Justice 40, therapid nature of getting these
funds out there, especiallybefore the next election cycle,
I think, is putting a lot ofpressure on not just the folks
within the White House and theOMB, but also on those in our
industry that are trying to gearup fast enough to be able to do
this.
And I know with us we received,you know, some funding to do
(06:27):
some training for demandflexibility, and I was dismayed
to see how kind of not clear themethodology was for tracking
your metrics and your progress,and so we really struggled with
that and it wanted to make surewe were reaching the right
audience, but found that thedata that was available through
(06:48):
the economic justice screeningtool that they've created for
this wasn't giving us theanswers that we needed,
unfortunately.
So anyone here done marketing,you have to do paid ads with zip
codes.
You can't do it based on censusdata.
You have to have zip codes tobe able to purchase ads.
Do it based on, you know, censusdata.
You have to have zip codes tobe able to purchase ads, and
(07:11):
what we found in our work withthis as a major issue of
identifying the right communitymembers is they don't have that
data.
It's not a layer, so weactually had to go out and
create that.
So that's just one example of apain point of one grant
recipient trying to do something.
Tell me, what advice would yougive to clean energy providers
who are struggling to findqualified workers for their
projects related to Justice 40and just in general, to get
(07:32):
these projects done quickly andeffectively and meet the metrics
?
That was really meant to beabout.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (07:38):
I'll maybe try to share a story.
I think this was maybe two orthree years ago.
We worked with a PSCNG.
Pscng is a utility that's basedin New Jersey and they wanted
to hire close to 65 field techsand energy auditors to support
their residential and commercialprogram.
I think what happens a lot withthese workforce programs is we
(07:59):
may not realize the amount ofwork that it takes.
It's not a one-to-one ratio.
You don't talk to one personthat one person gets the job.
We had to talk to thousands ofpeople to screen hundreds to
hire 60.
And sometimes I think we don'tthink about the effort that it's
going to take to be successful.
We just assume the money comesin.
You train two people, those twofolks get the job.
(08:20):
It's a lot of work.
Jen Szaro, AESP (08:22):
And then if you're hiring as a full-time
equivalent, like an FTE employee, you've also got the
institutional knowledge that youhave to then educate them about
for that organization.
So culturally they also have tounderstand that piece of it and
be onboarded.
And I know you have some greatonboarding tools through your
equity tools.
So tell me a little bit aboutthat tool specifically and how
(08:43):
you help usher in this nextgeneration of clean energy
professionals into a workplacelike that.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (08:50):
I'll stick with the PSCNG example.
So we had to hire, train,develop 60 people.
It took us 3,000 phone screens,hundreds of interviews to hire
those 60 folks.
What we also know is that whenyou do a workforce program, you
have trainers, you havewraparound services, you have
employers, you have smallbusiness, you have unions, you
(09:10):
have a variety of stakeholdersinvolved and when those
stakeholders are involvedthere's a lot of data that needs
to be collected and that'snormally collected in SharePoint
Excel emails.
So we realized not only was theprogram difficult, it was also
difficult for us to track thedata that was needed by the
governor's office and by theutility.
So we built out a software toolthat allowed us to at least
(09:34):
gather the data from all thestakeholders.
So the nonprofits knew thatthey referred over six people,
the career training organizationknew that we trained an ex, the
employees knew that there wasex-minded people available.
So that helped us at that pointin time to kind of grow and
scale the people available.
So that helped us at that pointin time to kind of grow and
scale.
We're starting to see acrossthe country that a lot of the
sieges, the California actionagencies, the NYSERDAs, the mass
(09:56):
saves, they're all realizing wecan't keep doing this manually.
Jen Szaro, AESP (10:00):
Yeah.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (10:05):
We have to put something in place
to actually allow us to seewhat's happening.
Who got the money, who wasplaced, who was trained, who
needs wraparound services?
Do they get it in time, likeall those things we talk about,
is it can no longer be trackedin a very fragmented way.
We have to create morecontinuity, more accountability,
more transparency for thosethings to happen.
Jen Szaro, AESP (10:19):
Yeah, I'm so impressed with what you've done
there and it's such an amazingtool to be using.
The one piece I remember youshowing me was about mentoring
within organizations to helppeople truly onboard with those
organizations and you know, havea peer that they can ask those
hard questions to about theculture, or you know just what
the norms are socially withinthat organization.
(10:40):
I mean, for me, let's talk aboutthe importance of mentorship in
our efforts AESP really focuseson this into bringing the next
generation in.
We try to pair our emergingprofessionals up with, you know,
our industry veterans, helpthem understand what it takes to
get to that job level and howthey grow their careers and help
them sort of map that out.
And you're kind of doing thesame thing, you know, with your
(11:01):
tool, but in within theseorganizations themselves, and to
me this not only really helpsget people comfortable with
being within the industry but italso really helps pass that
institutional knowledge you knowdown effectively, because we do
have a lot of folks retiringfrom the industry, especially
the utility sector.
We're losing that institutionalknowledge and so you need both
(11:23):
how to think forward as well ashow to learn from the past and
tell me how mentoring can reallyhelp with that.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (11:30):
So I look at mentoring as maybe
personally, I think it's theonly way that you can develop
and grow.
I think if you talk to mostsuccessful people in life,
whatever they define as success,they had a mentor along the way
, whether it's sports, whetherit's business, whether it's home
, whether it's being a parent.
Like we're asking for adviceall the time and no one does it
alone.
And I think we're expectingpeople to come into this
(11:52):
industry alone without advice,without mentorship.
And it's funny, the more folksI've talked to that's been in
this space for a while, theysaid I didn't learn anything
watching videos and LMS andreading.
I learned it by doing.
Yeah absolutely so.
I think there is a significantopportunity to align more
mentorship programs within thesector.
I'll give you guys a few datapoints.
The most successful companiesthat retain their employees have
(12:14):
mentorship programs.
The Googles, the Amazons, theFacebooks.
They have mentorship and theydo that because there's a
psychological value there.
If I'm mentoring Jen and I'mthe leader for Jen, the job is
no longer about the job.
The job is about how can Iensure Jen can be successful.
So it's a missed opportunity ifyou're an employer and
absolutely if you're a mentee.
That's how you learn.
(12:35):
Till this day, I sit down withsomeone every week or every
couple of weeks to learn fromthem and I think sometimes,
being a mentor, you actuallylearn more.
That's the irony of the whole.
Jen Szaro, AESP (12:43):
Thing.
Paul Douglas, CareerEqu (12:43):
Because you realize all the stuff
you're not doing.
Jen Szaro, AESP (12:49):
I love.
I've mentored people and I'vebeen mentored and it's so neat
to see people that I've mentorednow that are in the industry
and they're professionals andthey are now the mentor to the
next generation.
You know, how do we keep thatgoing to really ensure that
transfer of knowledge continuesand that people find their way
through the industry effectivelyso they're not getting stuck,
let's say, in a customer servicerole or a marketing entry-level
(13:11):
position, but they're actuallyfinding a path forward within
this industry.
It's growing, as you can see.
We have over 40,000 people hereat just this one conference.
It's growing faster than we caneven imagine.
So how do we keep pullingpeople into this and keep
growing that next generation?
Paul Douglas, CareerEqu (13:27):
There's a couple of potential
bottlenecks because, when itcomes to we talked a little bit
about diversity and DEI there'snot a lot of diverse employees
in this space, right, I thinkthe numbers in mid-teens.
So when you go to mentorship,sometimes folks that are being
mentored like to be mentored byfolks that have similar
experiences, similar backgrounds.
So that's a gap for us that weneed to fix.
Number two is we want to assignmentors that can have honest,
(13:51):
candid conversation.
Right, I mean, again, I try tobe as candid as I can.
Sometimes I can't tell my bossthat, hey, at home I literally
don't have enough money to getto work or I have a mental
health issue.
So I look at a mentor as notsomeone that I have a formal
conversation with.
It's someone that I can reallytell what's going on in my life
and where I need the most help.
And when you talk about helpingunderrepresented communities
(14:12):
and disadvantaged communities,you need to have a real
conversation with theseindividuals.
It's not a formal HR in theoffice conversation.
It's a sometimes, I hate to say, like off the record
conversation, like hey, tell mewhat's really going on.
So the mentorship also has tobe a candid, transparent,
authentic mentorship.
That has to happen.
But again, I think this is aprogram that some tend to look
(14:33):
over and it's such a criticalinflection point to retain
people and allow more diversecandidates into your company.
Jen Szaro, AESP (14:38):
Yeah, I think you can easily get people in.
Well, I wouldn't say easily,because you still have to
struggle to find people but it'sretention too, and I think
that's where mentorship playsthe most important role.
It's retention too, and I thinkthat's where mentorship plays
the most important role.
It's on retention Growing thatnext generation, keeping them
engaged in this industry so theydon't go to telecom or go to
something else.
It's building the community andbuilding the relationships.
(14:59):
To me that really matters.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (15:01):
And I'll give a good example.
We work with another utilitywhere part of the onboarding was
well… we'll have them talk to amentor every two weeks and
we'll have them talk to theirmanager.
But we actually had the mentortalk to the manager and the
employee.
So once a month, every threeweeks, we'll get all three
together and have a conversation, because sometimes the mentor
was actually able to give andarticulate the message in a more
(15:22):
formal way than the candidatewas, but we got the point across
.
So, whether it's training,whether they need help with
something, so the mentor againand the manager if you can
create that tripod of aconversation, that's something
we've seen a lot of success in.
That's such a great idea.
Jen Szaro, AESP (15:36):
Yeah, look, I love bringing them together
because there are things youdon't want to say to your
supervisor but need to be said.
Of course, you know you needhelp and you don't know how to
ask for it.
Even I think it's reallyimportant.
So how do we move forward?
To me, it's not even a question.
(16:15):
It is important to build aninclusive culture for this
industry Within the clean energysector.
I think it's the area ofhighest growth in the energy
sector.
We've got so much opportunity.
For me, I feel like we'vemissed the mark.
Still.
It's getting better, but westill miss the mark.
What are the specific stepsthat organizations can take to
change this?
How would you advise anorganization to truly reach out
and become a more inclusiveorganization if they're starting
at kind of everyone looks thesame?
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (16:26):
So I think most companies make
decisions based on their bottomline.
So is it profitable?
Is it net income?
So I think understanding thatis key.
And their bottom line so is itprofitable, is it net income?
So I think understanding thatis key.
And I speak to a lot of CEOs inrooms and I tell them the first
company to be the most inclusivewill be the most successful.
When you look at pure data andpure analytics and census data,
that's the demographics we'rehiring from.
So right now it's still alittle bit of a choice.
(16:49):
In 5, 10, 15 years it won't bea choice to be inclusive, it's
just the way that the census ismoving.
So companies that can reallytake a step back and look at the
data, look at the census, lookat the demographics and say, hey
, right now we're not, and kindof almost admit it to themselves
we're not diverse.
We have to get there.
That's the first step I seethere's an opportunity to make.
Second, it's looking at if we dohave diverse folks.
(17:12):
Are they leaving?
Because I think we're quick toalways say, hey, let's attract
all these new people into theindustry, but reality is we have
people that are leavingconstantly.
It just becomes a constantchurn.
So, really looking at, if folksare leaving, why are they
leaving?
What do we need to change today?
First step we need to takeCommunity culture.
I mean they call it, they sayDEI training, but I mean I say
(17:35):
just, really just go ask thefolks that work for your company
, like, hey, we need to retainfolks.
What are we doing and how canwe do it more effectively?
So that's the first step totake.
The next step is when you lookat where do we go?
Everyone tends to go to Indeed,linkedin, ziprecruiter.
We go to the same places tofind people over and over and
over again and we say, well, wecan't find diversity.
So we have to change thestrategy of how we find people
(17:57):
and where we find people.
I'll give you guys a hint thatI've seen a lot of companies do.
It's also who's doing therecruiting.
Jen Szaro, AESP (18:03):
Yeah, I mean, I've seen that play out.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (18:06):
If you have a non-diverse
recruiting team.
Sometimes it's a little bitharder to have a diverse
recruiting team.
Sometimes it's a little bitharder to have a diverse
recruiting strategy.
Jen Szaro, AESP (18:13):
I think there's trust issues, sometimes too
honestly.
So I think how you've got tothink about that and really be
proactive and intentional withthe whole hiring process, from
start to finish.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (18:24):
I agree.
And when I say diverse team, itcould be.
I've seen that sometimes mom'sgoing to have a different
conversation with another momyeah, absolutely, I've seen
young recruiters, old recruiters, have different conversations.
So I think it's really lookingat the team that's bringing
folks into your organization andcan they have the conversation
needed to bring folks in.
The last thing I think alsowhen it comes to inclusivity, is
in this sector, what I love themost is you actually do have an
(18:47):
opportunity to impact thecommunity we come from.
Yeah, right, and I don't thinkwe tell that story enough.
Like, this job that you canhave is not just another job.
If you do your job right, youcan remember that time when you
had to not buy X because theenergy bill was too high.
That's the problem and I don'tthink we tell that story enough
that the folks that are comingin, and I think we can get more
(19:08):
diversity if we really share thevalue proposition to this job.
Jen Szaro, AESP (19:12):
I love that.
Yeah, I mean, energy burden iscontinuing to be an issue for
the communities that Justice 40is trying to serve, and yet
somehow we're just not quitegetting there with it.
Well, I know we've got to wrapup, so you know, just before we
do that, could you just sharefor me because you've always
inspired me your vision for thefuture of workforce development
(19:32):
and clean energy?
You know, considering all thefunds that are being poured into
this and the growth rates thatwe're seeing across the board on
all clean technologies, Ialways like to maybe share a
quick story.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (19:44):
So my first job out of school, I
was a recruiter and I had a ladythat she got a job and the job
was paying at that point maybe$8.56, from what I recall, and
she filled out her paperwork andshe called back the next day
and she goes hey, paul, is thereany way that I can make $9.50?
Do you know why she needed tomake $9.50, jen?
Why do you think?
Jen Szaro, AESP (20:05):
No idea, that's a.
That's a strange request.
It's very specific.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquity (20:09):
It felt strange when I was 21,.
But she said, paul, that's whatI need to go get approved for a
mortgage, wow.
So I always share that storyand that's why I do what I do
today because these jobs, theopportunity that this energy
transition can offer us, it canswitch generational wealth.
People can buy a home.
Once she buys a home, her kidsgo to a different school.
(20:31):
Her kids go to a differentschool, they get a degree.
It changes the generationalcurse in some communities and
that's the problem we're solvingand that's what we don't talk
about often.
So back to what do I envision?
I envision this opportunityreally impacting the communities
that need it the most and Ithink, if we can find them
better jobs, we can supportsmall business.
(20:51):
We talk about it, but I thinkwe have to make sure that it's
being done.
So I'm excited for that visionfor the future.
Jen Szaro, AESP (20:57):
Thank you so much, really appreciate your
time and we're going to wrap itup again Thank you to the Power
Up Live podcast and to Watzillafor hosting us and sponsoring,
and thanks to the Suncast Mediateam as well for having us here.
Paul Douglas, CareerEquit (21:10):
Thank you, Jen.
I appreciate it.
Thank you next time.
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