January 9, 2025 • 40 mins
Phil shares his inspiring journey in establishing MD Energy Advisors, emphasizing the importance of perseverance, customer service, and effective networking in entrepreneurship. Through his experiences over the years, he highlights key strategies for navigating challenges, fostering relationships, and achieving profitability in a competitive market.
• Journey from a small startup to a thriving energy solutions company
• Emphasizing cash flow management and early profitability
• The role of networking and associations in business growth
• Customer service as a cornerstone of MD Energy Advisors' success
• Insights on navigating the political landscape for future opportunities
• Importance of hiring and maintaining a positive company culture
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jen Szaro, AESP (00:22):
Jen Zarro, CEO and Co-Foundfounder of MD Energy
Advisors, and he's going toshare his insights from his
journey establishing hisbusiness and seeing it grow.
Welcome to the podcast, Phil.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (00:34):
Thanks for having me, Jen.
Jen Szaro, AESP (00:36):
So tell us a little bit about you and about
MD Energy Advisors.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (00:40):
Sure , MD Energy Advisors was founded
in 2010, but prior to 2010,when we started the company,
I'll give a little bit ofbackground on myself.
I spent several years inpersonal finance with a Fortune
500 credit card firm inWilmington, Delaware which, of
course, was the home of creditcards in the mid 2000s to
(01:04):
director of economic developmentfor the city of Baltimore.
So I had a corporate backgroundalong with a quasi public
sector background where I raneconomic development for the
city, responsible for about overthree billion dollars of
transactions related to the taxbase there in the city of
Baltimore.
From there, you know, it was aninteresting ride.
(01:28):
I had done corporate and I hadalso done kind of, you know,
public sector and we werelooking for a new challenge and
that's what led us to start MDEnergy Advisors in 2010.
Jen Szaro, AESP (01:41):
Wow, that's awesome, and so how many
partners or founders do you havein?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (01:44):
2010 .
Wow, that's awesome.
And so how many partners orfounders do you have?
So it's three partners, and,coincidentally, we all work
together doing economicdevelopment.
We were colleagues in allactuality.
I was their boss and that kindof led us to, you know, starting
the company.
It was a different environmentfor me after coming out of
corporate America, going intothe public sector my colleagues
(02:06):
now business partners we werelike we could do a little bit
more.
I had taken on the task ofstarting a 501C3 while working
on behalf of the city, and sothat gave me a lot of confidence
that you know we could pursuean entrepreneurial dream, and
the idea for the company cameout of believe it or not a
newspaper article that waswritten in 2010 about the
(02:30):
deregulation of power, and fromthat newspaper article that my
partner Jason brought in to myoffice.
I said I think this is a goodidea, and one thing I knew from
my previous background thatanytime there's a deregulation
of an industry, there areopportunities there, and that we
set out on our path with$10,000 and a lot of hope and
(02:52):
dreams to really build thisthing called Empty Energy
Advisors.
Jen Szaro, AESP (02:55):
And that's such an amazing story to hear and I
know that's a struggle that alot of other diverse suppliers
will relate to.
So in those early days you know, whenever you make that kind of
a change, especially in maybean uncertain market, what were
the challenges or things thatwere keeping you awake at night.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (03:13):
Yeah , I mean, as you know, when you
bootstrap a company and start itvery organically, cash flow is.
Cash is king, right, and cashflow is super important.
One of the things that we didearly on to help mitigate some
of the cash flow crunches,because people say, well, how do
you start a company with$10,000?
One of the things we did was wekept our nine to five jobs with
(03:34):
the city for two years, sothere wasn't an immediate jump.
We have this great idea.
What we wanted to do was proveout the business model to see if
it works, and so you know,again, I like to say, our nine
to five job was our firstinvestor in the company and so,
yeah, so we took those, tookthat time to really, you know,
(03:57):
really understand pressure, testthe business model and make
sure that you know we wereequipped to do the job of taking
this on full time.
And, you know, once we figuredout we have enough just to kind
of, you know, keep the billspaid, we took the leap in late
2012.
So we had a two-year runway oftrying to figure the business
out.
Jen Szaro, AESP (04:16):
I mean that's a great approach.
I think that's helpful forother people to hear too.
Basically, you had two jobs fortwo years.
It sounds like.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (04:24):
Exactly .
Wow, that must have been toughbut it seems like that worked
for you.
Yeah, I think so.
I think it was one of the thingsthat I look back and we'll say
that's probably one of the bestdecisions that we've made was to
really just focus in on gettingthe company profitable and
(04:46):
spending less time looking foroutside capital.
I talked to a lot of youngbudding entrepreneurs and one of
the pieces of advice I givethem is you know, try to get on
the path of profitability,because you can spend as much
time looking for investors, butyou can take that same time and
really, you know, focus ongetting your business model
sound, getting customers,getting to profitability, and so
(05:10):
one of the things that I lookback so it's finally now.
I mean, it was rough in thoseearly years.
I would say probably for thefirst six or seven years of the
company.
Cash flow is tight, but wedidn't have the pressures of
investors telling us how to runthe business and one of the
things and I think that'simportant for folks as they
pursue their journey you knowhow are you wired and we were
(05:32):
more wired to be veryindependent and autonomous to
build the company and theculture that we wanted to build,
without any outside influence.
Jen Szaro, AESP (05:40):
And that makes perfect sense to me, and I have,
you know, bumped into severalentrepreneurs that have these
startup companies, and that'sthe exact decision you know
they're facing right now is do Igo after you know, getting some
additional support from aninvestment standpoint, or do I
just grow the model, make sureit works and sounds like the
(06:02):
latter is really what has workedwell for you all.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (06:04):
Sounds like the latter is really what
has worked well for you all.
Yeah, and I'm sorry, jen, justone point there.
I think for us, because we werea services based business, that
worked.
We didn't have a lot of widgetsto produce.
I think if we were producingtechnology or software or
something to that effect, theoutside capital makes sense.
But for us, as a service basedbusiness, we figured if we can
just continue to bring on newcustomers and profitable new
(06:27):
customers, it'll be a longerrace but we ultimately will win
the race.
Jen Szaro, AESP (06:32):
So, in thinking back, would you say today's
market is easier or moredifficult from a financial
perspective in starting your owncompany like this yeah, you
know, wow, it's really hard tosay.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advis (06:46):
I would say it's a little bit.
It's a little easier in the factthat there is money funding
more climate initiative startups, more climate startups.
However, at the same time, therejust needs to be a very
judicious approach in who thosepartners and investors are
(07:08):
within your organization.
And so in some respects it iseasier because there's more
money out there that's attractedto more climate ideas, climate
businesses, climate focusedbusinesses.
But at the same time, you knowsome of them are just looking
for a return and are they reallyinvested with the mission and
the goals of your organization?
(07:29):
And so there's there's a doubleedged sword that you know cuts
both ways.
So in some respects it's easier, but in some respects it's
harder because you know, onceyou have that money, you are
beholden to those investors tosome degree and ultimately they
will want to return, and so willyou have the runway.
Will you have the time toreally develop and nurture your
(07:51):
product or service in ameaningful way in order to
really garner that traction, orwill you be forced to liquidate
or sell or make moves that arenot in the best interest of the
organization because of theinvestors?
So it cuts both ways.
Jen Szaro, AESP (08:06):
That makes sense, yeah, so let's talk about
building your network up.
You're starting out with yournew organization.
I know you've already been inthe corporate sector and the
public sector, so hopefully thathelped you.
Was there a network you couldtap into back then and to help
you open doors?
And then what does thenetworking landscape for you
look like now?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (08:28):
Yeah .
So there was absolutely zeronetwork for us coming out of
personal finance and then thepublic sector.
We did have I did have anetwork in the public sector,
but as it relates to energy, wedidn't have much of a network.
And you know, I think one ofthe challenges that probably
(08:48):
would have kept us up that alsokept me up beyond cash flow I
should mention was that you knowthere's a little bit of do we
know enough to be successful inthis business, and I think all
entrepreneurs face thatchallenge of do I have what it
takes to really take thiscompany to the next level.
So, as it relates to network,it was a very organic approach
for us and it's still we stillutilize this to this day.
(09:09):
It's getting a part of, it'sgetting, you know becoming a
part of associations like theAESP.
You know it's, you know being apart.
We are also members of theAmerican Association of Blacks
in Energy.
We are also, you know we'realso in associations and
organizations that service ourclients.
We do a lot of work withcommercial office buildings.
(09:30):
So we're members of NAOP andBOMA and other organizations.
I feel as though, if you reallywant to create a network,
getting involved and activewithin organization provides
that runway to really get toknow people within your industry
and that was really a gift forus in being a part of so many
(09:54):
organizations early on and goingto the conferences and meeting
people and having dialogue.
I will also caution, though.
I also tell folks don't go andbe a part of organizations just
for a transactional business.
Go to add value and thebusiness will come.
Jen Szaro, AESP (10:09):
Right.
So I mean, I think I see thatoften where people will join an
organization like ours butthey're hesitant to be active in
the organization and so they'renot getting the full value of
that relationship opportunity,relationship opportunity.
So we always tell people divein, get active, figure out what
your passion is within theorganization and find a way to
(10:30):
contribute, and then you'llstart to build your bridges.
Phil Croskey, MD Ene (10:34):
Absolutely .
Jen Szaro, AESP (10:35):
We think that's so important, you know, as a
function of what we do, and Iknow Abe and others you know
feel the same way.
Yeah, so tell us what other,like, what other strategies do
you have for for building outthe network, um, beyond
associations, are there otherthings that that they should be
doing as well, other diversesuppliers?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (10:56):
yeah , so I'm a part of a climate
mastermind group with other ceos.
Um, that has been tremendousfor us and although we're in the
climate industry or energyindustry, everyone's doing a
little bit of different thingswithin that industry and just
again, that ability to have areally intimate relationship
(11:18):
with 30 or 40 other members ofthe cohort where you meet
monthly, you brainstorm ideas,you discuss some of the
challenges that your businessesare facing Huge, and so we
really have enjoyed, you knowthat from a networking
standpoint.
And I think that the last thingI'll say, you know from a
networking standpoint is reallyjust, you know, finding a mentor
(11:43):
.
I mean, I think one of the mostunderutilized platforms is
LinkedIn and I have gone as faras to identify a mentor.
There was a firm that wasdownsizing and I reached out to
some of the folks that I sawthat were in transition and
found a mentor via LinkedIn.
A cold email, jen, via LinkedInsaying hey, you have a lot of
(12:08):
experience in this industry.
We're a young company, you know, we're still, you know, want
love to know if you'd beinterested in consulting and
like just creating thatrelationship with this
individual.
A consulting relationship has,you know, really almost doubled
our business because of hernetwork and her tutelage and
(12:29):
knowledge within the industry.
So I'm always one who's seekingout help from various
individuals and making sure thatI'm in the room.
Sometimes people associate withlearning with being in a
classroom.
I learned by being at the tablein the room or part of a group.
I love that.
Jen Szaro, AESP (12:48):
Yeah, I mean I also participate in a CEO group
to help nonprofits and it'slife-changing to have that kind
of support and peer network.
And then the idea of a mentorI'm all in on that.
I think it is the way to growyour understanding, you know,
for someone who has thosehistorical perspectives to share
with you.
So bravo for taking that effort.
(13:10):
You know you took a roll of thedice to go try to find someone
on LinkedIn and it worked outfor you.
I agree with you LinkedIn is apowerful tool if you put it to
good use.
Absolutely Big fan.
We haven't.
We do have an industry networkfor LinkedIn, for AESP, I think
it has about 6,000 members nowand I'm always amazed that more
(13:31):
people don't use it in that way,because that's definitely the
intended purpose.
So let's talk about getting tobeing profitable, crossing that
chasm, as they say in theindustry.
Yeah, being profitable,crossing that chasm, as they say
in the industry.
Were there moments that, whileyou were crossing the chasm,
that helped you get to that nextstep?
Or, you know, did you have anymoments of doubt where you were
(13:54):
like I'm not sure this is goingto?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (13:56):
happen .
Moments of doubt oh my gosh, Istill have moments of doubt.
Jen, yeah, you know, definitelyhad a lot of moments of doubt.
So one of the things that Idon't think I knew, going in on
how long it would take for youto really kind of hit what we
would call pay dirt or really,you know, see that inflection
(14:17):
point within the organization,for us it was roughly around
seven, almost 10 years.
It was roughly around seven,almost 10 years, not that we
weren't profitable, but we wereprofitable at a scale where we
could really, you know, expandthe business.
So I'll give you some some,some a sense of kind of where we
were In March of 2020, everyonekind of knows where they were.
When, you know, the pandemichit, we had 11 employees in
(14:41):
March of 2020.
Fast forward, and that's 10years after the start of the
business.
Fast forward to today.
We now have over 70 employeeswithin the organization, so
that's exponential growth infour years.
And so when people talk aboutthese journeys and it's no such
thing as an overnight success,we definitely adhere to that,
because it took 10 years for usto really get to a sizable small
(15:06):
business.
I mean, we were kind of, youknow, we were profitable along
the way.
But you know, we made sometweaks and focused that mentor
when I talked about doubling it.
That mentor helped us quite abit, and so it just takes time.
It really does take time.
I think everyone thinks that Istart a business today and
(15:26):
within 24 months we're going tobe overly profitable, and
sometimes it doesn't work likethat.
What you want to see in thisjourney in my opinion, jen, is
we talk about crossing the chasmis incremental growth, year
over year growth, and we'vealways had year over year growth
, whether it was a 5 percent or10 percent growth.
It was yours, and so we sawthat, okay, we were moving in
(15:46):
the right direction, and I thinkthat's super important for
entrepreneurs.
Jen Szaro, AESP (15:50):
That's a great message because I agree, it's
easy to get discouraged ifyou're not immediately
successful, but I mean, that'swhat it takes to move forward.
So patience, it sounds like, isa key criteria for success and
creating a business like this.
So let's talk about what you'reworking on today.
You're in a unique positiontoday because your company
(16:11):
facilitates energy procurement.
Company facilitates energyprocurement.
Are there any inside baseballlessons that you can share with
someone who's starting out thatyou wouldn't pick up in a
classroom or a webinar?
Those real world experiencesright, that's how you learned.
So what would you say to others?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (16:28):
Sure .
So we have two sides to thebusiness.
We have our utility solutionside and our commercial solution
side.
So think of our work with theutilities in implementing their
demand side management programs.
But then there's also what wecall our private sector, our
commercial solutions, where wehelp, you know, decar buildings
and help them purchaseelectricity in deregulated
markets and really help themfacilitate reducing, you know,
(16:49):
their demand, energy demand.
But, with that being said, oneof the things that we saw were
gaps in the marketplace in ourindustry was customer service,
and so when we were working withour private sector commercial
office building clients, one ofthe things that we tried to do
is we always say if we were fastfood, we want to be Chick-fil-A
.
If we were retail, we wanted tobe Nordstrom's.
(17:11):
We wanted to wow them withcustomer service.
And we wanted to wow them notbecause we wanted to impress
them with our service, but wealso wanted to wow them because
we needed them to tell anothercolleague in the industry,
someone that they know hey, youmight want to use these MD
Energy Advisors guys, becausethey're really really good.
And so, customer service, whatwe is really kind of been, you
(17:36):
know, our hallmark, is reallywowing the customer.
We like to say we're a customerservice company delivering
energy solutions, and we holdtrue to that, like we really
want to make sure our customersleave with a positive impression
of the work that we're doing.
We really want to help themunderstand what's happening with
their buildings or theirfacilities and help them really
(17:57):
understand energy, because wetake it for granted that we know
energy, but we found that a lotof people you know very few
people really understand all theline items on their utility
bill.
So it may start there helpingthem understand here's how much
you're spending, here's what canwe do, how can we make your
building more efficient in theprocess.
So I would say, you know,customer service is really the
one thing that has really helpedus along the way.
Jen Szaro, AESP (18:20):
Yeah, I mean you had me at Nordstrom's
service.
Yeah, I think you're spot on.
To me, that does, in my opinion, make a company stand out.
For me.
You know, when you have thatgood experience and you know
(18:42):
they're going to take care ofyou not just because they want
your business, but because theywant to see you have a positive,
successful experience, I thinkit makes all the difference,
honestly.
So that's a great message toshare with people.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advi (18:48):
It does.
And the last thing, I'll justsay that it's funny like you,
the older you become, you reallyvalue to your point customer
service.
My kids love Chick-fil-A.
I can't tell you how much Ilove it.
But you also go back becauseyou know when you say thank you
they're going to say my pleasure, and when they don't say it,
you're kind of like what's goingon here?
Jen Szaro, AESP (19:07):
Yeah, what happened to you?
Someone missed your trainingclass.
Totally Well, tell me a littlebit about the different segments
(19:32):
we talked about you working incommercial and utilities.
Are there distinctions?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (19:32):
between working with government
agencies versus more commercialfacilities, and then the utility
businesses that are importantto understand before you go
after a new opportunity.
Yeah, I think it's importantfor businesses, especially
entrepreneurs and those who arekind of on their journey, to
understand the sales cycles witheach and the various nuances on
how to sell through to each.
The sales cycle sometimes forgovernment could be maybe a
little bit longer than maybe aprivate sector client, but the
nuances for dealing with aprivate sector client are
(19:55):
different.
In the fact of a lot of timesthey want to understand, kind of
you know what's the capitaloutlay that I'm going to need to
make in order to fulfill mygoal or to for this particular
service.
So you have to begin to speakin a language that's meaningful
for them.
With utilities, same thing.
It's really understanding, kindof you know what are some of
(20:17):
the needs, what are the needs ofthe utility, what are they
looking for, what value do youbring to the utility?
So it's really justunderstanding.
I think we we learned early on.
You know government and utilityRFPs.
They come out.
You know quite a bit, but therehas to be a relationship.
It goes back to relationships,right, you know quite a bit.
But there has to be arelationship.
It goes back to relationships,right, there probably needs to
(20:40):
be a relationship prior to theRFP coming out with that
particular utility.
There has to be some groundworkthat's done prior to responding
to the RFP.
So that's why I think it'salways helpful to really
continue to build your network,to continue to you know, make
sure people know who you are,and if they don't know who you
are, they could call someone andthey can do a reference check
to say, hey, we got this, youknow proposal from MD Energy
(21:03):
Advisors.
Do you know them?
What do you think about them?
Do they do good work?
So your reputation means a lot,but the networking is super
important, even when you'regoing after, you know,
government or utility RFPs.
Jen Szaro, AESP (21:17):
Yeah, that makes total sense.
Do you actively pursue gettingon vendor lists for
organizations like that as a wayto kind of get your foot in the
door for when they do have anRFP coming out?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advi (21:30):
We do.
Yeah, we absolutely do.
We definitely try to get outand get our name on vendor lists
.
And then I think it's alsoimportant to have some
diversification.
I failed to mention that toobecause I know I've seen a lot
(21:50):
of companies really just focuson we're going to respond to
these RF business and a utilitysolution side of the business,
because we've always wanted gooddiversification because of the
ebbs and flows in the market.
So you know, sometimes utilitybusiness is growing and it's
growing rapidly, and thensometimes the utility business
slows down.
We have the commercial solutionside business right now.
Building print and energyperformance standards and
(22:13):
decarbonization is reallypicking up for a lot of these
commercial building owners.
So that's keeping us a lotreally busy right now.
So I think it's important tohave a little bit of both.
But to your question, yes, wedo get on the list.
We understand that the salescycles can be a little bit
longer and so we want to begingetting on the list and then
nurturing those relationships,setting up those meetings, doing
introductory calls with thesevendors and these partners,
(22:36):
potential partners, and justkind of introducing ourselves.
I think again, it's importantand I mentioned this earlier to
develop and nurture therelationship and not be so
transactional.
I'm a big relationship guy andI look at business as 70% people
.
And then the 30% is like whatyou know and how well you do it.
(22:57):
But if you can't crack thepeople code then it's going to
be hard for you to be reallysuccessful in business.
Jen Szaro, AESP (23:04):
I love that.
Yeah, I mean, I'd much ratherdo business with someone I want
to spend time with and hang outwith, identify shared values.
I think that's so important.
Yeah Well, we're talking aboutnetworking, so let's let's dig
in a little bit more to that.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy A (23:29):
Let's say you go to an ASP conference
or event.
How do you prepare for that tohelp build your network?
Really good question, jen.
I start by looking to see whoare some of the other attendees
there and going back to what Isaid, which is the underutilized
platform.
I mean, you know Meta andInstagram gets all the pub, but
I think for business folks,linkedin needs to be the most
important tool.
(23:49):
So I start by getting orlooking to see who might have
access to whoever the attendeesalso attending the conference.
You know, reviewing some oftheir LinkedIn pages, I might
sometimes message them vis-a-visLinkedIn or, if there's an app
for the conference, maybe viathe app for the conference, just
to say, hey, love to meet youwhile I'm there, maybe grab a
(24:10):
coffee, set up some meetings.
I think that pre-work is soimportant.
You just can't show up andexpect you know something to
drop in your lap or fall in yourlap.
The other thing I do to Jen isreally see who within my network
I know who's going to be there,who may know some of the people
that I'm trying to get to, tosee if I can get a warm
(24:31):
introduction to someone I'mtrying to get to.
So that's the great beauty ofLinkedIn.
People know who you have kindof the shared connections with.
So, doing that groundwork tosay, oh, I'm trying to get to
Jen, but I know that you knowPaul knows Jen.
So let me ask Paul, hey, paul,you know Jen.
Hey, when we get out to youknow California at the
conference, can you give me anintroduction?
(24:53):
And so that's a great way thatsome of the tools that I use
when going to networking events.
Jen Szaro, AESP (25:00):
I do the same thing, so those warm
introductions are gold for me,because you're now building
trust with that new person.
You're trying to build arelationship with, you know, by
having someone in common.
So totally love that approach.
So how do you make yourselfstand out, though, in a room,
(25:21):
especially with largerorganizations?
Is it just the, is it therelationship piece that you go
after?
I mean, I know, when we go toour conferences, we have
organizations of all shapes andsizes there.
Some bring you know two people,some bring 30.
So how do you help yourselfstand out as a small, diverse
business among a sea of manybigger organizations?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (25:48):
Yeah , sometimes it's just, you know,
trying to get on a panel.
I always recommend for smallbusinesses, if you can speak on
a panel, provide a keynote.
I think that's huge, that givesyou a captive audience or a
room to speak to.
So I would say, definitely tryto leverage a speaking
(26:12):
engagement with some of theorganizations if you can.
The other thing, too is just Idon't know, Jen, I don't do, I
don't do kind of hokey salesgimmicks too well, I'm just, I
think it's just being genuine.
If you see someone just walk upand introduce yourself, hey, how
are you, how are you doing?
(26:33):
Phil Crossy, tell me a littlebit about what you do and ask
questions.
I think it's funny, in schoolYou're never really taught how
to network Right.
It's something that you kind ofjust have to learn by doing.
You're kind of like thrown in afire and for some people it's,
it's daunting, it's intimidating, Like how do I stand up?
And so you know, it's reallyjust kind of you know putting
(26:55):
yourself out there.
And I think what something goesunsaid too when it comes to
networking, Jen, which is, youknow, making sure that your
energy level is at a point that,because it can be exhausting
Right, that you have good energy.
You got a good night's restlike little things.
I got a good night's rest.
I didn't hang out the nightbefore all night with some of
the colleagues at the conferencebecause I know the next day I
(27:17):
need to be like those things yougot to be ready for and
prepared for.
So it's just for me.
It's just kind of being genuinemeeting people, exchanging
business card.
Follow up on the back end isalso extremely important as well
.
So I don't really have a goldenticket per se to how to stand
out per se, other than just tryto be yourself and put yourself
(27:40):
out there and be warm andpersonable with folks.
Jen Szaro, AESP (27:43):
I love the idea of just authenticity you know,
being who you are telling yourstory.
I think is so important forpeople I know I am definitely
put off by kind of hard salespitches the first time you're
meeting someone.
It's uncomfortable for me.
It's probably uncomfortable forthem too, you know.
And again, it does not buildthe relationship that you want
(28:06):
to build to make peoplecomfortable with you.
So I think that's really smart.
I mean, that's why we always atour receptions do things like
put games around the receptionareas, give people an
opportunity to organicallyengage with each other.
I think helps build thoserelationships for sure.
So tell me about marketing.
We all have to do it.
(28:27):
It's expensive, it's timeconsuming.
What do you do on the marketingfront to help yourself stand
out as you build your brand?
You know, what do you not do,especially as a small, diverse
supplier?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (28:43):
Yeah , so we've tried every marketing
idea known to man.
We first started out this isgoing to sound really, really
crazy but we used to put likelittle post-it notes on
businesses doors to say, hey,give us a call.
We tried everything.
I mean this is this is over 15,almost 14,.
13 years ago we were guerrillamarketing campaign, so that's
(29:06):
what we were doing.
Didn't work, of course, but butone of the things that we do
today, beyond kind of thenetworking piece, we try to sell
without selling.
I think right now, as you know,selling sometimes gets a bad
connotation.
So what we try to do is we tryto highlight the company.
(29:27):
I mean, one of the things thatI'm so grateful for and
fortunate is that you know wehave a great company of over 70
plus really good human beings.
So we have something which isour guiding principles, called
the MDEA way, and our firstguiding principle is be a good
human being, and we try tohighlight our people and our
(29:50):
company on LinkedIn.
So I had one of our clientsrecently come to me and say I
don't know what you all aredoing over there at MD Energy
Advisors, but your people lookhappy, it looks like a great
company to work for and, in turn, I want to continue to do
business with you guys and tellothers to do business with you,
and and that's that was music tomy ears, because by by him just
(30:15):
following us on LinkedIn andseeing kind of what we're doing,
what we're doing, the diversityof our team we just won an
award, a woman's award, forempowering women, by one of the
papers here in the state ofMaryland and we're proud of that
.
And so, for us, sales is alsojust kind of just showcasing who
(30:40):
we are and that authenticitythat we talked about earlier.
And I think people want to be apart of something that they feel
is going places.
Whether they're the employees,whether they're clients, whether
they're partners, they want tobe a part of something special.
In this day and age, I thinkeveryone's looking for, you know
, a tribe, a home, somewherewhere they feel you know that
(31:04):
they're going to be appreciatedand respected, and so I think a
little bit that's kind of how wego about selling.
I mean it really is.
It's not, it's not the hardcore.
Hey, you know, cold calleveryone.
I mean we do some of that, buta lot of it is, you know, let's
get out, let's build theserelationships.
Let's highlight via LinkedInkind of what we're doing in the
(31:25):
community and for the people and, believe it or not, the phones
ring just from that.
Jen Szaro, AESP (31:31):
I love it.
Yeah, community is so importantto us as an organization and
this is exactly why I meanthat's how you build
relationships, I think, andthat's how it gives you that
opportunity to really tell yourstory.
You know we talked aboutLinkedIn a few times now.
I mean, that's to me, awonderful outlet for marketing.
You know what you're working onand who you're working with and
(31:51):
why, and what your successlooks like as well.
I know I'm constantly lookingfor case studies on there of
things that we're working on totry to understand who's doing
what.
So getting your story out there, I think, is really smart.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Adv (32:06):
Yes .
Jen Szaro, AESP (32:08):
So we talked about sticky notes on doors and
stuff being maybe the bestapproach for you specifically.
Anything else you would havedone differently in retrospect
as you developed yourorganization.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (32:23):
Yeah , you know it's funny, everyone
has a different way of learningand my learning is always by
doing and failing.
And so, you know I I always sayI'd never want to live with
regrets.
So nothing comes to mind thatyou know, because we learn from
(32:44):
everything that we did and andvalue out of it.
I think the one thing I wouldsay we probably have learned a
lesson as it relates to hiringis you know we wanted to hire
and grow, you know, fasterprobably than we probably should
have.
And you know we kind of cutcorners on some of you know some
(33:06):
of our hires early on, maybenot doing necessarily due
diligence, maybe trying to.
You know, hire people at a lowrate, thinking you're going to,
you know, have them grow intothe organization or grow into
the position Probably shouldhave done a little bit more due
diligence around our hiringpractices early on.
(33:28):
But that's just.
You know what young companiesdo.
You're so excited to bring onsomeone and you know they may be
, you know, maybe fresh out ofcollege or new and not have a
lot of industry.
No, they'll grow into it andultimately you find out that you
know it's ultimately not a goodfit.
So what's the old adage youknow, hire slow.
So that's one bit of advice Iwould give.
Jen Szaro, AESP (33:49):
I like that hire slow, yeah, because it's
like you said, it's a family,it's a community you're building
, and even within your ownorganization.
So making sure you find someonewho matches not just with the
skill set you're looking for,but also really with those
cultural values, I think isreally important.
So we just had an electionThinking about.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advi (34:11):
We did.
Jen Szaro, AESP (34:15):
You know we expect the landscape will change
for the clean energy sector,especially for efficiency and
renewables to some degree.
How are you thinking about that?
And you know how has it maybeshifted your thinking on your
strategy for the next four years?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (34:33):
Yeah , yeah, it's.
That's a really good questionand it is the topic of the day
and we're still kind ofprocessing everything that's
happened within the past week orso.
You know, I think I have I toldmy team this the first of the
(35:01):
month that I'm going to, I'mgoing to be grateful and take on
a very optimistic viewpoint, nomatter who won the election,
and I'm going to still try tohold true to that and really
just and say you know, the old Iguess it's the's the Winston
Churchill, never let a crisis goto waste.
I think in every situationthere's an opportunity.
I don't know what thatopportunity is just yet, jen,
with this particular situation,but you know, the pendulum
always kind of swings back, andso I'm just going to try to
(35:23):
remain positive, encourageothers in the industry to remain
positive and do what we can,because you know, I'm here on
the East Coast and we justexperienced some 80 degree days
in November and that's notnormal.
Jen Szaro, AESP (35:41):
I mean we we've got a hurricane in November
here down in Florida.
That's pretty nuts and you know,I think we're going to continue
to see those types of climatetrends happen, probably worsen
as we go.
So I agree, I think it is.
You have to look at it as anopportunity to maybe mix things
(36:02):
up or think differently.
So I'm glad to hear that Ithink that a lot of folks maybe
right now to your point, arestill processing what this means
from a change standpoint forthem.
But I kind of agree, I thinkthere's there's opportunity in
every situation and you justhave to figure out how best to
to tap into that.
(36:22):
You know, I think it'll beinteresting to see what happens
with the Department of Energy,specifically from a federal
standpoint.
But there still is, so much asyou can, as you can attest to,
being driven by, you know,commercial organizations, large,
large corporations.
I don't think that's goinganywhere and honestly, I don't
(36:44):
even think that the utilitiesare going to slow down in their
investments in renewables whereit makes sense for them.
So I don't anticipate quite thelevel of change that I think
some others are concerned about.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advis (36:59):
I would, I would agree with that,
I would agree and I would thinktoo.
I think too also, a lot of the,a lot of the initiatives are
going to be driven at the locallevel for the foreseeable future
.
If, if it's, you know, federalgovernment is being a little
more resistance, some of thethings that you know we're all
witnessing and seeing I thinkthe local level in some states
(37:20):
and local jurisdictions aregoing to drive.
And I think it's important forus in this industry to be at the
table for some of thoseconversations at a local level.
We can you know, I have alwaysthe same control, what you can
control and sometimes we'realways looking at the federal
level and sometimes we can havemore of an impact right in our
(37:41):
own backyard.
So that's one piece of advice Iwould encourage.
I know that some of the thingsthat we're looking at is you
know, how can we be influentialat the state level and the local
level for the work that we do?
Jen Szaro, AESP (37:54):
I love that approach.
I think that makes perfectsense and you know, and people
are more connected at the locallevel.
You've got the opportunity forjob creation.
You've got the opportunity tohelp you know, these smaller
communities especially make achange, make a difference for
their constituents as well.
So, yeah, I think we've gotlots of opportunity.
(38:14):
We just need to work out whatit's going to look like.
And certainly not the firsttime there's been a shift in our
markets.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (38:21):
Exactly .
Jen Szaro, AESP (38:22):
So you know, I think we're all looking at the
long game and, you know, makinggood decisions based on things
that, based on things thatmatter for us and for the people
we serve.
Resilience is not going to goaway, in my opinion.
I think resilience iscritically important, local job
creation is critically importantand helping businesses save
(38:42):
money is really important.
So none of that's, in myopinion, going to be lessened by
the situation.
I think it's just how youapproach things might change.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (38:52):
Agreed .
Jen Szaro, AESP (38:53):
Well, phil, thank you for spending your
morning with me.
As a fellow East Coaster, Iappreciate your time today and
really enlightening conversation.
You've got me so excited aboutwhat can happen, when you really
put your mind to it, withgrowing a small, diverse
business.
I'm super impressed with theprogress you've made and with
(39:16):
your humility as well.
Like it's, it's been awonderful conversation, so thank
you so much for being with me.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advi (39:21):
No , Jen, thank you for the
opportunity this morning and Iappreciate the conversation and
we will, as we say, onwards andupwards from here.
Jen Szaro, AESP (39:32):
That's right, awesome, okay, thanks.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy A (39:35):
Thank you, we'll see you next time.
Jen Zarro, CEO and Co-Foundfounder of MD Energy
Advisors, and he's going toshare his insights from his
journey establishing hisbusiness and seeing it grow.
Welcome to the podcast, Phil.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (00:34):
Thanks for having me, Jen.
Jen Szaro, AESP (00:36):
So tell us a little bit about you and about
MD Energy Advisors.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (00:40):
Sure , MD Energy Advisors was founded
in 2010, but prior to 2010,when we started the company,
I'll give a little bit ofbackground on myself.
I spent several years inpersonal finance with a Fortune
500 credit card firm inWilmington, Delaware which, of
course, was the home of creditcards in the mid 2000s to
(01:04):
director of economic developmentfor the city of Baltimore.
So I had a corporate backgroundalong with a quasi public
sector background where I raneconomic development for the
city, responsible for about overthree billion dollars of
transactions related to the taxbase there in the city of
Baltimore.
From there, you know, it was aninteresting ride.
(01:28):
I had done corporate and I hadalso done kind of, you know,
public sector and we werelooking for a new challenge and
that's what led us to start MDEnergy Advisors in 2010.
Jen Szaro, AESP (01:41):
Wow, that's awesome, and so how many
partners or founders do you havein?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (01:44):
2010 .
Wow, that's awesome.
And so how many partners orfounders do you have?
So it's three partners, and,coincidentally, we all work
together doing economicdevelopment.
We were colleagues in allactuality.
I was their boss and that kindof led us to, you know, starting
the company.
It was a different environmentfor me after coming out of
corporate America, going intothe public sector my colleagues
(02:06):
now business partners we werelike we could do a little bit
more.
I had taken on the task ofstarting a 501C3 while working
on behalf of the city, and sothat gave me a lot of confidence
that you know we could pursuean entrepreneurial dream, and
the idea for the company cameout of believe it or not a
newspaper article that waswritten in 2010 about the
(02:30):
deregulation of power, and fromthat newspaper article that my
partner Jason brought in to myoffice.
I said I think this is a goodidea, and one thing I knew from
my previous background thatanytime there's a deregulation
of an industry, there areopportunities there, and that we
set out on our path with$10,000 and a lot of hope and
(02:52):
dreams to really build thisthing called Empty Energy
Advisors.
Jen Szaro, AESP (02:55):
And that's such an amazing story to hear and I
know that's a struggle that alot of other diverse suppliers
will relate to.
So in those early days you know, whenever you make that kind of
a change, especially in maybean uncertain market, what were
the challenges or things thatwere keeping you awake at night.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (03:13):
Yeah , I mean, as you know, when you
bootstrap a company and start itvery organically, cash flow is.
Cash is king, right, and cashflow is super important.
One of the things that we didearly on to help mitigate some
of the cash flow crunches,because people say, well, how do
you start a company with$10,000?
One of the things we did was wekept our nine to five jobs with
(03:34):
the city for two years, sothere wasn't an immediate jump.
We have this great idea.
What we wanted to do was proveout the business model to see if
it works, and so you know,again, I like to say, our nine
to five job was our firstinvestor in the company and so,
yeah, so we took those, tookthat time to really, you know,
(03:57):
really understand pressure, testthe business model and make
sure that you know we wereequipped to do the job of taking
this on full time.
And, you know, once we figuredout we have enough just to kind
of, you know, keep the billspaid, we took the leap in late
2012.
So we had a two-year runway oftrying to figure the business
out.
Jen Szaro, AESP (04:16):
I mean that's a great approach.
I think that's helpful forother people to hear too.
Basically, you had two jobs fortwo years.
It sounds like.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (04:24):
Exactly .
Wow, that must have been toughbut it seems like that worked
for you.
Yeah, I think so.
I think it was one of the thingsthat I look back and we'll say
that's probably one of the bestdecisions that we've made was to
really just focus in on gettingthe company profitable and
(04:46):
spending less time looking foroutside capital.
I talked to a lot of youngbudding entrepreneurs and one of
the pieces of advice I givethem is you know, try to get on
the path of profitability,because you can spend as much
time looking for investors, butyou can take that same time and
really, you know, focus ongetting your business model
sound, getting customers,getting to profitability, and so
(05:10):
one of the things that I lookback so it's finally now.
I mean, it was rough in thoseearly years.
I would say probably for thefirst six or seven years of the
company.
Cash flow is tight, but wedidn't have the pressures of
investors telling us how to runthe business and one of the
things and I think that'simportant for folks as they
pursue their journey you knowhow are you wired and we were
(05:32):
more wired to be veryindependent and autonomous to
build the company and theculture that we wanted to build,
without any outside influence.
Jen Szaro, AESP (05:40):
And that makes perfect sense to me, and I have,
you know, bumped into severalentrepreneurs that have these
startup companies, and that'sthe exact decision you know
they're facing right now is do Igo after you know, getting some
additional support from aninvestment standpoint, or do I
just grow the model, make sureit works and sounds like the
(06:02):
latter is really what has workedwell for you all.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (06:04):
Sounds like the latter is really what
has worked well for you all.
Yeah, and I'm sorry, jen, justone point there.
I think for us, because we werea services based business, that
worked.
We didn't have a lot of widgetsto produce.
I think if we were producingtechnology or software or
something to that effect, theoutside capital makes sense.
But for us, as a service basedbusiness, we figured if we can
just continue to bring on newcustomers and profitable new
(06:27):
customers, it'll be a longerrace but we ultimately will win
the race.
Jen Szaro, AESP (06:32):
So, in thinking back, would you say today's
market is easier or moredifficult from a financial
perspective in starting your owncompany like this yeah, you
know, wow, it's really hard tosay.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advis (06:46):
I would say it's a little bit.
It's a little easier in the factthat there is money funding
more climate initiative startups, more climate startups.
However, at the same time, therejust needs to be a very
judicious approach in who thosepartners and investors are
(07:08):
within your organization.
And so in some respects it iseasier because there's more
money out there that's attractedto more climate ideas, climate
businesses, climate focusedbusinesses.
But at the same time, you knowsome of them are just looking
for a return and are they reallyinvested with the mission and
the goals of your organization?
(07:29):
And so there's there's a doubleedged sword that you know cuts
both ways.
So in some respects it's easier, but in some respects it's
harder because you know, onceyou have that money, you are
beholden to those investors tosome degree and ultimately they
will want to return, and so willyou have the runway.
Will you have the time toreally develop and nurture your
(07:51):
product or service in ameaningful way in order to
really garner that traction, orwill you be forced to liquidate
or sell or make moves that arenot in the best interest of the
organization because of theinvestors?
So it cuts both ways.
Jen Szaro, AESP (08:06):
That makes sense, yeah, so let's talk about
building your network up.
You're starting out with yournew organization.
I know you've already been inthe corporate sector and the
public sector, so hopefully thathelped you.
Was there a network you couldtap into back then and to help
you open doors?
And then what does thenetworking landscape for you
look like now?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (08:28):
Yeah .
So there was absolutely zeronetwork for us coming out of
personal finance and then thepublic sector.
We did have I did have anetwork in the public sector,
but as it relates to energy, wedidn't have much of a network.
And you know, I think one ofthe challenges that probably
(08:48):
would have kept us up that alsokept me up beyond cash flow I
should mention was that you knowthere's a little bit of do we
know enough to be successful inthis business, and I think all
entrepreneurs face thatchallenge of do I have what it
takes to really take thiscompany to the next level.
So, as it relates to network,it was a very organic approach
for us and it's still we stillutilize this to this day.
(09:09):
It's getting a part of, it'sgetting, you know becoming a
part of associations like theAESP.
You know it's, you know being apart.
We are also members of theAmerican Association of Blacks
in Energy.
We are also, you know we'realso in associations and
organizations that service ourclients.
We do a lot of work withcommercial office buildings.
(09:30):
So we're members of NAOP andBOMA and other organizations.
I feel as though, if you reallywant to create a network,
getting involved and activewithin organization provides
that runway to really get toknow people within your industry
and that was really a gift forus in being a part of so many
(09:54):
organizations early on and goingto the conferences and meeting
people and having dialogue.
I will also caution, though.
I also tell folks don't go andbe a part of organizations just
for a transactional business.
Go to add value and thebusiness will come.
Jen Szaro, AESP (10:09):
Right.
So I mean, I think I see thatoften where people will join an
organization like ours butthey're hesitant to be active in
the organization and so they'renot getting the full value of
that relationship opportunity,relationship opportunity.
So we always tell people divein, get active, figure out what
your passion is within theorganization and find a way to
(10:30):
contribute, and then you'llstart to build your bridges.
Phil Croskey, MD Ene (10:34):
Absolutely .
Jen Szaro, AESP (10:35):
We think that's so important, you know, as a
function of what we do, and Iknow Abe and others you know
feel the same way.
Yeah, so tell us what other,like, what other strategies do
you have for for building outthe network, um, beyond
associations, are there otherthings that that they should be
doing as well, other diversesuppliers?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (10:56):
yeah , so I'm a part of a climate
mastermind group with other ceos.
Um, that has been tremendousfor us and although we're in the
climate industry or energyindustry, everyone's doing a
little bit of different thingswithin that industry and just
again, that ability to have areally intimate relationship
(11:18):
with 30 or 40 other members ofthe cohort where you meet
monthly, you brainstorm ideas,you discuss some of the
challenges that your businessesare facing Huge, and so we
really have enjoyed, you knowthat from a networking
standpoint.
And I think that the last thingI'll say, you know from a
networking standpoint is reallyjust, you know, finding a mentor
(11:43):
.
I mean, I think one of the mostunderutilized platforms is
LinkedIn and I have gone as faras to identify a mentor.
There was a firm that wasdownsizing and I reached out to
some of the folks that I sawthat were in transition and
found a mentor via LinkedIn.
A cold email, jen, via LinkedInsaying hey, you have a lot of
(12:08):
experience in this industry.
We're a young company, you know, we're still, you know, want
love to know if you'd beinterested in consulting and
like just creating thatrelationship with this
individual.
A consulting relationship has,you know, really almost doubled
our business because of hernetwork and her tutelage and
(12:29):
knowledge within the industry.
So I'm always one who's seekingout help from various
individuals and making sure thatI'm in the room.
Sometimes people associate withlearning with being in a
classroom.
I learned by being at the tablein the room or part of a group.
I love that.
Jen Szaro, AESP (12:48):
Yeah, I mean I also participate in a CEO group
to help nonprofits and it'slife-changing to have that kind
of support and peer network.
And then the idea of a mentorI'm all in on that.
I think it is the way to growyour understanding, you know,
for someone who has thosehistorical perspectives to share
with you.
So bravo for taking that effort.
(13:10):
You know you took a roll of thedice to go try to find someone
on LinkedIn and it worked outfor you.
I agree with you LinkedIn is apowerful tool if you put it to
good use.
Absolutely Big fan.
We haven't.
We do have an industry networkfor LinkedIn, for AESP, I think
it has about 6,000 members nowand I'm always amazed that more
(13:31):
people don't use it in that way,because that's definitely the
intended purpose.
So let's talk about getting tobeing profitable, crossing that
chasm, as they say in theindustry.
Yeah, being profitable,crossing that chasm, as they say
in the industry.
Were there moments that, whileyou were crossing the chasm,
that helped you get to that nextstep?
Or, you know, did you have anymoments of doubt where you were
(13:54):
like I'm not sure this is goingto?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (13:56):
happen .
Moments of doubt oh my gosh, Istill have moments of doubt.
Jen, yeah, you know, definitelyhad a lot of moments of doubt.
So one of the things that Idon't think I knew, going in on
how long it would take for youto really kind of hit what we
would call pay dirt or really,you know, see that inflection
(14:17):
point within the organization,for us it was roughly around
seven, almost 10 years.
It was roughly around seven,almost 10 years, not that we
weren't profitable, but we wereprofitable at a scale where we
could really, you know, expandthe business.
So I'll give you some some,some a sense of kind of where we
were In March of 2020, everyonekind of knows where they were.
When, you know, the pandemichit, we had 11 employees in
(14:41):
March of 2020.
Fast forward, and that's 10years after the start of the
business.
Fast forward to today.
We now have over 70 employeeswithin the organization, so
that's exponential growth infour years.
And so when people talk aboutthese journeys and it's no such
thing as an overnight success,we definitely adhere to that,
because it took 10 years for usto really get to a sizable small
(15:06):
business.
I mean, we were kind of, youknow, we were profitable along
the way.
But you know, we made sometweaks and focused that mentor
when I talked about doubling it.
That mentor helped us quite abit, and so it just takes time.
It really does take time.
I think everyone thinks that Istart a business today and
(15:26):
within 24 months we're going tobe overly profitable, and
sometimes it doesn't work likethat.
What you want to see in thisjourney in my opinion, jen, is
we talk about crossing the chasmis incremental growth, year
over year growth, and we'vealways had year over year growth
, whether it was a 5 percent or10 percent growth.
It was yours, and so we sawthat, okay, we were moving in
(15:46):
the right direction, and I thinkthat's super important for
entrepreneurs.
Jen Szaro, AESP (15:50):
That's a great message because I agree, it's
easy to get discouraged ifyou're not immediately
successful, but I mean, that'swhat it takes to move forward.
So patience, it sounds like, isa key criteria for success and
creating a business like this.
So let's talk about what you'reworking on today.
You're in a unique positiontoday because your company
(16:11):
facilitates energy procurement.
Company facilitates energyprocurement.
Are there any inside baseballlessons that you can share with
someone who's starting out thatyou wouldn't pick up in a
classroom or a webinar?
Those real world experiencesright, that's how you learned.
So what would you say to others?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (16:28):
Sure .
So we have two sides to thebusiness.
We have our utility solutionside and our commercial solution
side.
So think of our work with theutilities in implementing their
demand side management programs.
But then there's also what wecall our private sector, our
commercial solutions, where wehelp, you know, decar buildings
and help them purchaseelectricity in deregulated
markets and really help themfacilitate reducing, you know,
(16:49):
their demand, energy demand.
But, with that being said, oneof the things that we saw were
gaps in the marketplace in ourindustry was customer service,
and so when we were working withour private sector commercial
office building clients, one ofthe things that we tried to do
is we always say if we were fastfood, we want to be Chick-fil-A
.
If we were retail, we wanted tobe Nordstrom's.
(17:11):
We wanted to wow them withcustomer service.
And we wanted to wow them notbecause we wanted to impress
them with our service, but wealso wanted to wow them because
we needed them to tell anothercolleague in the industry,
someone that they know hey, youmight want to use these MD
Energy Advisors guys, becausethey're really really good.
And so, customer service, whatwe is really kind of been, you
(17:36):
know, our hallmark, is reallywowing the customer.
We like to say we're a customerservice company delivering
energy solutions, and we holdtrue to that, like we really
want to make sure our customersleave with a positive impression
of the work that we're doing.
We really want to help themunderstand what's happening with
their buildings or theirfacilities and help them really
(17:57):
understand energy, because wetake it for granted that we know
energy, but we found that a lotof people you know very few
people really understand all theline items on their utility
bill.
So it may start there helpingthem understand here's how much
you're spending, here's what canwe do, how can we make your
building more efficient in theprocess.
So I would say, you know,customer service is really the
one thing that has really helpedus along the way.
Jen Szaro, AESP (18:20):
Yeah, I mean you had me at Nordstrom's
service.
Yeah, I think you're spot on.
To me, that does, in my opinion, make a company stand out.
For me.
You know, when you have thatgood experience and you know
(18:42):
they're going to take care ofyou not just because they want
your business, but because theywant to see you have a positive,
successful experience, I thinkit makes all the difference,
honestly.
So that's a great message toshare with people.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advi (18:48):
It does.
And the last thing, I'll justsay that it's funny like you,
the older you become, you reallyvalue to your point customer
service.
My kids love Chick-fil-A.
I can't tell you how much Ilove it.
But you also go back becauseyou know when you say thank you
they're going to say my pleasure, and when they don't say it,
you're kind of like what's goingon here?
Jen Szaro, AESP (19:07):
Yeah, what happened to you?
Someone missed your trainingclass.
Totally Well, tell me a littlebit about the different segments
(19:32):
we talked about you working incommercial and utilities.
Are there distinctions?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (19:32):
between working with government
agencies versus more commercialfacilities, and then the utility
businesses that are importantto understand before you go
after a new opportunity.
Yeah, I think it's importantfor businesses, especially
entrepreneurs and those who arekind of on their journey, to
understand the sales cycles witheach and the various nuances on
how to sell through to each.
The sales cycle sometimes forgovernment could be maybe a
little bit longer than maybe aprivate sector client, but the
nuances for dealing with aprivate sector client are
(19:55):
different.
In the fact of a lot of timesthey want to understand, kind of
you know what's the capitaloutlay that I'm going to need to
make in order to fulfill mygoal or to for this particular
service.
So you have to begin to speakin a language that's meaningful
for them.
With utilities, same thing.
It's really understanding, kindof you know what are some of
(20:17):
the needs, what are the needs ofthe utility, what are they
looking for, what value do youbring to the utility?
So it's really justunderstanding.
I think we we learned early on.
You know government and utilityRFPs.
They come out.
You know quite a bit, but therehas to be a relationship.
It goes back to relationships,right, you know quite a bit.
But there has to be arelationship.
It goes back to relationships,right, there probably needs to
(20:40):
be a relationship prior to theRFP coming out with that
particular utility.
There has to be some groundworkthat's done prior to responding
to the RFP.
So that's why I think it'salways helpful to really
continue to build your network,to continue to you know, make
sure people know who you are,and if they don't know who you
are, they could call someone andthey can do a reference check
to say, hey, we got this, youknow proposal from MD Energy
(21:03):
Advisors.
Do you know them?
What do you think about them?
Do they do good work?
So your reputation means a lot,but the networking is super
important, even when you'regoing after, you know,
government or utility RFPs.
Jen Szaro, AESP (21:17):
Yeah, that makes total sense.
Do you actively pursue gettingon vendor lists for
organizations like that as a wayto kind of get your foot in the
door for when they do have anRFP coming out?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advi (21:30):
We do.
Yeah, we absolutely do.
We definitely try to get outand get our name on vendor lists
.
And then I think it's alsoimportant to have some
diversification.
I failed to mention that toobecause I know I've seen a lot
(21:50):
of companies really just focuson we're going to respond to
these RF business and a utilitysolution side of the business,
because we've always wanted gooddiversification because of the
ebbs and flows in the market.
So you know, sometimes utilitybusiness is growing and it's
growing rapidly, and thensometimes the utility business
slows down.
We have the commercial solutionside business right now.
Building print and energyperformance standards and
(22:13):
decarbonization is reallypicking up for a lot of these
commercial building owners.
So that's keeping us a lotreally busy right now.
So I think it's important tohave a little bit of both.
But to your question, yes, wedo get on the list.
We understand that the salescycles can be a little bit
longer and so we want to begingetting on the list and then
nurturing those relationships,setting up those meetings, doing
introductory calls with thesevendors and these partners,
(22:36):
potential partners, and justkind of introducing ourselves.
I think again, it's importantand I mentioned this earlier to
develop and nurture therelationship and not be so
transactional.
I'm a big relationship guy andI look at business as 70% people
.
And then the 30% is like whatyou know and how well you do it.
(22:57):
But if you can't crack thepeople code then it's going to
be hard for you to be reallysuccessful in business.
Jen Szaro, AESP (23:04):
I love that.
Yeah, I mean, I'd much ratherdo business with someone I want
to spend time with and hang outwith, identify shared values.
I think that's so important.
Yeah Well, we're talking aboutnetworking, so let's let's dig
in a little bit more to that.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy A (23:29):
Let's say you go to an ASP conference
or event.
How do you prepare for that tohelp build your network?
Really good question, jen.
I start by looking to see whoare some of the other attendees
there and going back to what Isaid, which is the underutilized
platform.
I mean, you know Meta andInstagram gets all the pub, but
I think for business folks,linkedin needs to be the most
important tool.
(23:49):
So I start by getting orlooking to see who might have
access to whoever the attendeesalso attending the conference.
You know, reviewing some oftheir LinkedIn pages, I might
sometimes message them vis-a-visLinkedIn or, if there's an app
for the conference, maybe viathe app for the conference, just
to say, hey, love to meet youwhile I'm there, maybe grab a
(24:10):
coffee, set up some meetings.
I think that pre-work is soimportant.
You just can't show up andexpect you know something to
drop in your lap or fall in yourlap.
The other thing I do to Jen isreally see who within my network
I know who's going to be there,who may know some of the people
that I'm trying to get to, tosee if I can get a warm
(24:31):
introduction to someone I'mtrying to get to.
So that's the great beauty ofLinkedIn.
People know who you have kindof the shared connections with.
So, doing that groundwork tosay, oh, I'm trying to get to
Jen, but I know that you knowPaul knows Jen.
So let me ask Paul, hey, paul,you know Jen.
Hey, when we get out to youknow California at the
conference, can you give me anintroduction?
(24:53):
And so that's a great way thatsome of the tools that I use
when going to networking events.
Jen Szaro, AESP (25:00):
I do the same thing, so those warm
introductions are gold for me,because you're now building
trust with that new person.
You're trying to build arelationship with, you know, by
having someone in common.
So totally love that approach.
So how do you make yourselfstand out, though, in a room,
(25:21):
especially with largerorganizations?
Is it just the, is it therelationship piece that you go
after?
I mean, I know, when we go toour conferences, we have
organizations of all shapes andsizes there.
Some bring you know two people,some bring 30.
So how do you help yourselfstand out as a small, diverse
business among a sea of manybigger organizations?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (25:48):
Yeah , sometimes it's just, you know,
trying to get on a panel.
I always recommend for smallbusinesses, if you can speak on
a panel, provide a keynote.
I think that's huge, that givesyou a captive audience or a
room to speak to.
So I would say, definitely tryto leverage a speaking
(26:12):
engagement with some of theorganizations if you can.
The other thing, too is just Idon't know, Jen, I don't do, I
don't do kind of hokey salesgimmicks too well, I'm just, I
think it's just being genuine.
If you see someone just walk upand introduce yourself, hey, how
are you, how are you doing?
(26:33):
Phil Crossy, tell me a littlebit about what you do and ask
questions.
I think it's funny, in schoolYou're never really taught how
to network Right.
It's something that you kind ofjust have to learn by doing.
You're kind of like thrown in afire and for some people it's,
it's daunting, it's intimidating, Like how do I stand up?
And so you know, it's reallyjust kind of you know putting
(26:55):
yourself out there.
And I think what something goesunsaid too when it comes to
networking, Jen, which is, youknow, making sure that your
energy level is at a point that,because it can be exhausting
Right, that you have good energy.
You got a good night's restlike little things.
I got a good night's rest.
I didn't hang out the nightbefore all night with some of
the colleagues at the conferencebecause I know the next day I
(27:17):
need to be like those things yougot to be ready for and
prepared for.
So it's just for me.
It's just kind of being genuinemeeting people, exchanging
business card.
Follow up on the back end isalso extremely important as well
.
So I don't really have a goldenticket per se to how to stand
out per se, other than just tryto be yourself and put yourself
(27:40):
out there and be warm andpersonable with folks.
Jen Szaro, AESP (27:43):
I love the idea of just authenticity you know,
being who you are telling yourstory.
I think is so important forpeople I know I am definitely
put off by kind of hard salespitches the first time you're
meeting someone.
It's uncomfortable for me.
It's probably uncomfortable forthem too, you know.
And again, it does not buildthe relationship that you want
(28:06):
to build to make peoplecomfortable with you.
So I think that's really smart.
I mean, that's why we always atour receptions do things like
put games around the receptionareas, give people an
opportunity to organicallyengage with each other.
I think helps build thoserelationships for sure.
So tell me about marketing.
We all have to do it.
(28:27):
It's expensive, it's timeconsuming.
What do you do on the marketingfront to help yourself stand
out as you build your brand?
You know, what do you not do,especially as a small, diverse
supplier?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (28:43):
Yeah , so we've tried every marketing
idea known to man.
We first started out this isgoing to sound really, really
crazy but we used to put likelittle post-it notes on
businesses doors to say, hey,give us a call.
We tried everything.
I mean this is this is over 15,almost 14,.
13 years ago we were guerrillamarketing campaign, so that's
(29:06):
what we were doing.
Didn't work, of course, but butone of the things that we do
today, beyond kind of thenetworking piece, we try to sell
without selling.
I think right now, as you know,selling sometimes gets a bad
connotation.
So what we try to do is we tryto highlight the company.
(29:27):
I mean, one of the things thatI'm so grateful for and
fortunate is that you know wehave a great company of over 70
plus really good human beings.
So we have something which isour guiding principles, called
the MDEA way, and our firstguiding principle is be a good
human being, and we try tohighlight our people and our
(29:50):
company on LinkedIn.
So I had one of our clientsrecently come to me and say I
don't know what you all aredoing over there at MD Energy
Advisors, but your people lookhappy, it looks like a great
company to work for and, in turn, I want to continue to do
business with you guys and tellothers to do business with you,
and and that's that was music tomy ears, because by by him just
(30:15):
following us on LinkedIn andseeing kind of what we're doing,
what we're doing, the diversityof our team we just won an
award, a woman's award, forempowering women, by one of the
papers here in the state ofMaryland and we're proud of that
.
And so, for us, sales is alsojust kind of just showcasing who
(30:40):
we are and that authenticitythat we talked about earlier.
And I think people want to be apart of something that they feel
is going places.
Whether they're the employees,whether they're clients, whether
they're partners, they want tobe a part of something special.
In this day and age, I thinkeveryone's looking for, you know
, a tribe, a home, somewherewhere they feel you know that
(31:04):
they're going to be appreciatedand respected, and so I think a
little bit that's kind of how wego about selling.
I mean it really is.
It's not, it's not the hardcore.
Hey, you know, cold calleveryone.
I mean we do some of that, buta lot of it is, you know, let's
get out, let's build theserelationships.
Let's highlight via LinkedInkind of what we're doing in the
(31:25):
community and for the people and, believe it or not, the phones
ring just from that.
Jen Szaro, AESP (31:31):
I love it.
Yeah, community is so importantto us as an organization and
this is exactly why I meanthat's how you build
relationships, I think, andthat's how it gives you that
opportunity to really tell yourstory.
You know we talked aboutLinkedIn a few times now.
I mean, that's to me, awonderful outlet for marketing.
You know what you're working onand who you're working with and
(31:51):
why, and what your successlooks like as well.
I know I'm constantly lookingfor case studies on there of
things that we're working on totry to understand who's doing
what.
So getting your story out there, I think, is really smart.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Adv (32:06):
Yes .
Jen Szaro, AESP (32:08):
So we talked about sticky notes on doors and
stuff being maybe the bestapproach for you specifically.
Anything else you would havedone differently in retrospect
as you developed yourorganization.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (32:23):
Yeah , you know it's funny, everyone
has a different way of learningand my learning is always by
doing and failing.
And so, you know I I always sayI'd never want to live with
regrets.
So nothing comes to mind thatyou know, because we learn from
(32:44):
everything that we did and andvalue out of it.
I think the one thing I wouldsay we probably have learned a
lesson as it relates to hiringis you know we wanted to hire
and grow, you know, fasterprobably than we probably should
have.
And you know we kind of cutcorners on some of you know some
(33:06):
of our hires early on, maybenot doing necessarily due
diligence, maybe trying to.
You know, hire people at a lowrate, thinking you're going to,
you know, have them grow intothe organization or grow into
the position Probably shouldhave done a little bit more due
diligence around our hiringpractices early on.
(33:28):
But that's just.
You know what young companiesdo.
You're so excited to bring onsomeone and you know they may be
, you know, maybe fresh out ofcollege or new and not have a
lot of industry.
No, they'll grow into it andultimately you find out that you
know it's ultimately not a goodfit.
So what's the old adage youknow, hire slow.
So that's one bit of advice Iwould give.
Jen Szaro, AESP (33:49):
I like that hire slow, yeah, because it's
like you said, it's a family,it's a community you're building
, and even within your ownorganization.
So making sure you find someonewho matches not just with the
skill set you're looking for,but also really with those
cultural values, I think isreally important.
So we just had an electionThinking about.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advi (34:11):
We did.
Jen Szaro, AESP (34:15):
You know we expect the landscape will change
for the clean energy sector,especially for efficiency and
renewables to some degree.
How are you thinking about that?
And you know how has it maybeshifted your thinking on your
strategy for the next four years?
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Ad (34:33):
Yeah , yeah, it's.
That's a really good questionand it is the topic of the day
and we're still kind ofprocessing everything that's
happened within the past week orso.
You know, I think I have I toldmy team this the first of the
(35:01):
month that I'm going to, I'mgoing to be grateful and take on
a very optimistic viewpoint, nomatter who won the election,
and I'm going to still try tohold true to that and really
just and say you know, the old Iguess it's the's the Winston
Churchill, never let a crisis goto waste.
I think in every situationthere's an opportunity.
I don't know what thatopportunity is just yet, jen,
with this particular situation,but you know, the pendulum
always kind of swings back, andso I'm just going to try to
(35:23):
remain positive, encourageothers in the industry to remain
positive and do what we can,because you know, I'm here on
the East Coast and we justexperienced some 80 degree days
in November and that's notnormal.
Jen Szaro, AESP (35:41):
I mean we we've got a hurricane in November
here down in Florida.
That's pretty nuts and you know,I think we're going to continue
to see those types of climatetrends happen, probably worsen
as we go.
So I agree, I think it is.
You have to look at it as anopportunity to maybe mix things
(36:02):
up or think differently.
So I'm glad to hear that Ithink that a lot of folks maybe
right now to your point, arestill processing what this means
from a change standpoint forthem.
But I kind of agree, I thinkthere's there's opportunity in
every situation and you justhave to figure out how best to
to tap into that.
(36:22):
You know, I think it'll beinteresting to see what happens
with the Department of Energy,specifically from a federal
standpoint.
But there still is, so much asyou can, as you can attest to,
being driven by, you know,commercial organizations, large,
large corporations.
I don't think that's goinganywhere and honestly, I don't
(36:44):
even think that the utilitiesare going to slow down in their
investments in renewables whereit makes sense for them.
So I don't anticipate quite thelevel of change that I think
some others are concerned about.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advis (36:59):
I would, I would agree with that,
I would agree and I would thinktoo.
I think too also, a lot of the,a lot of the initiatives are
going to be driven at the locallevel for the foreseeable future
.
If, if it's, you know, federalgovernment is being a little
more resistance, some of thethings that you know we're all
witnessing and seeing I thinkthe local level in some states
(37:20):
and local jurisdictions aregoing to drive.
And I think it's important forus in this industry to be at the
table for some of thoseconversations at a local level.
We can you know, I have alwaysthe same control, what you can
control and sometimes we'realways looking at the federal
level and sometimes we can havemore of an impact right in our
(37:41):
own backyard.
So that's one piece of advice Iwould encourage.
I know that some of the thingsthat we're looking at is you
know, how can we be influentialat the state level and the local
level for the work that we do?
Jen Szaro, AESP (37:54):
I love that approach.
I think that makes perfectsense and you know, and people
are more connected at the locallevel.
You've got the opportunity forjob creation.
You've got the opportunity tohelp you know, these smaller
communities especially make achange, make a difference for
their constituents as well.
So, yeah, I think we've gotlots of opportunity.
(38:14):
We just need to work out whatit's going to look like.
And certainly not the firsttime there's been a shift in our
markets.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (38:21):
Exactly .
Jen Szaro, AESP (38:22):
So you know, I think we're all looking at the
long game and, you know, makinggood decisions based on things
that, based on things thatmatter for us and for the people
we serve.
Resilience is not going to goaway, in my opinion.
I think resilience iscritically important, local job
creation is critically importantand helping businesses save
(38:42):
money is really important.
So none of that's, in myopinion, going to be lessened by
the situation.
I think it's just how youapproach things might change.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy (38:52):
Agreed .
Jen Szaro, AESP (38:53):
Well, phil, thank you for spending your
morning with me.
As a fellow East Coaster, Iappreciate your time today and
really enlightening conversation.
You've got me so excited aboutwhat can happen, when you really
put your mind to it, withgrowing a small, diverse
business.
I'm super impressed with theprogress you've made and with
(39:16):
your humility as well.
Like it's, it's been awonderful conversation, so thank
you so much for being with me.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advi (39:21):
No , Jen, thank you for the
opportunity this morning and Iappreciate the conversation and
we will, as we say, onwards andupwards from here.
Jen Szaro, AESP (39:32):
That's right, awesome, okay, thanks.
Phil Croskey, MD Energy A (39:35):
Thank you, we'll see you next time.
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