Have you ever wondered how life's challenges can ignite a fire of passion and resilience within you? Join us in a riveting conversation with an extraordinary guest, Angie Bivens. Trials and triumphs mark Angie's journey; from enduring personal struggles and a staggering energy bill, she found a passion that led her to become the Outreach Manager at Franklin Energy. Today, Angie uses her past to power her work to help others with their energy struggles. On today's podcast, she shares her journey and the secrets of success to becoming a successful mid-career emerging professional in energy efficiency.
We traverse through the complexities of the energy industry and the power of mentorship in breaking down its barriers. Angie candidly shares her transition experiences from other sectors into clean energy, unfolding the valuable lessons she gathered. She underscores the difference between a good supervisor who ensures the job is done and a great supervisor who guides you to unearth and harness your potential. Discover Angie's formula for greatness and let her experience inspire you to pursue your dreams in the face of adversity relentlessly. This episode is not just about energy efficiency or leadership. It's about the invincible power of resilience. Join us and let Angie's journey inspire you as much as it did us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jen Szaro (00:07):
Hi there and welcome back to the Energy Beat podcast.
I'm your host, Jen Szaro.
Today, we're going to trysomething different.
I'll be turning over themicrophone to Ian Perterer, aesp
Senior Manager of Marketing andCommunications, and he'll be
speaking with Angie Bibbins, theOutreach Manager at Franklin
(00:28):
Energy, and reaching people isdefinitely something Angie's
great at.
If you haven't had the chanceto meet Angie, you're in for a
treat.
She really knows how to createa buzz on social media.
So have a listen as Angie andIan talk through her unique
journey to becoming a cleanenergy professional.
I hope you enjoy.
Ian Perterer (00:51):
So thank you everybody for joining me.
I am Ian Perterer.
I am the Senior Manager ofMarketing and Communications.
I'm here with Angie Bivens ofFranklin Energy.
Hi, angie, thank you so muchfor joining us.
Angie Bivens (01:06):
Hi, ian, and thank you for having me on.
I'm super excited to be heretoday.
Ian Perterer (01:11):
I know.
I first got a chance to meetyou at our annual conference in
New Orleans and I got to sayyou've got such an infectious
personality that it's just it'shard not to smile when I'm
talking to you.
Angie Bivens (01:25):
Well, awesome.
I was hoping my smile wasportraying through my voice, so
if that's working, everybodythat watches should be smiling
right along with us.
Ian Perterer (01:33):
They better be.
I hope they're listening to iton a weekend or at least a
leisurely morning or somethinglike that.
So let's go ahead and let'sstart with like the nuts and
bolts of our conversation.
First, let's tell the audiencea little bit about yourself.
Tell them about your employer,franklin Energy, what they do in
the energy space, and then alsotell us what you do at Franklin
(01:55):
Energy.
Angie Bivens (01:56):
Well, do, well, do so.
I work directly for FranklinEnergy and Franklin Energy is an
energy management and energyprogram resource to utilities,
municipalities, businesses andcustomers across the nation.
So we work in various statesand I am in the mighty huge
state of Delaware.
The organization that has hiredFranklin Energy to do some of
(02:21):
their programming is calledEnergize Delaware and I'm an
outreach manager with Franklinon behalf of Energize Delaware
and my main role is to docommunity outreach, community
engagement, and I oversee aprogram it's an LMI low to
moderate income program thatjust helps families and
individuals in their homes tosave on their energy bill.
(02:43):
So I have the best job on theplanet.
Ian Perterer (02:46):
Oh, I love it.
I absolutely love it and alsovery important to know the
tax-free state of Delaware.
Angie Bivens (02:54):
Yes.
Ian Perterer (02:55):
Thank you.
Angie Bivens (02:56):
Clark for Delaware .
Ian Perterer (02:58):
Yes, look, if you're ever there and you're
ever driving through, stop byand do some shopping.
Angie Bivens (03:03):
Yes, stop at the beaches, then you get the beach
and you get the tax-freeshopping.
It's amazing.
Ian Perterer (03:08):
Yes exactly so.
One of the things that struckme when I got the chance to meet
with you at annual conferenceis you won our Emerging
Professional of the Year award.
And for the listeners who don'tknow, every year AESP releases
a series of awards called theEnergy Awards to recognize
outstanding members, outstandingprojects, really the movers and
(03:32):
shakers in our little AESPworld who are doing incredible
things, whether that be aproject or just a career story
or a plan.
That we think is inspiring.
So AESP's definition of anemerging professional I think is
kind of interesting, right inthe energy space, or really
(03:55):
maybe even larger than theenergy space, because it really
doesn't have anything to do withage If you stop and think about
it.
A lot of times when you hearemerging professionals you're
talking lists that tell you thetop 25 professionals under 25 or
the 30 under 30 or the 40 under40.
And our definition really hasnothing to do with that.
(04:16):
It has nothing to do with yourage or how long you've been out
of college.
It's really all about whereverin your life journey you are,
how deep or how much time haveyou spent in the energy industry
.
So you're not at 25 under 25.
You're not at 30 under 30.
You fall in that nottraditionally thought of
(04:37):
category of emergingprofessional Right.
So tell us about your backstoryand how you wound up in the
energy industry.
Angie Bivens (04:46):
Thank you for that .
Now everybody's like, oh mygosh, how old is she?
No, I definitely would bebarely under the 40, under 40.
I am turning 40 this year, but,most importantly, don't look
like it.
So that's the goal.
But my backstory actuallystarted just not in a good light
(05:08):
, Unfortunately.
I was a very young mom and Ihad small children.
I was actually married andunfortunately I was in a bit of
an abusive relationship.
So I found myself with allthese small kids needing to get
out, needing to start my lifeover, and I had one major
hindrance to getting a new placeand that was my energy bill.
(05:31):
At the time, the youngest childI had recently just had had
some heart conditions.
I know it's like all this stuffgot piled on top of me, but you
know that's when you get thebest story out of it.
When you got to fight your wayout a little bit.
So a youngest baby had a heartcondition, I wasn't able to work
and my energy bill just keptgoing up sky high, literally.
(05:51):
I still have that bill.
It was over $1,600.
And they were like either payit or returning it off, and so
at the time I went through,found as many resources on my
own, as I could workedeverything out.
Long story short, I ended upgetting it back on, but that led
to a new passion for me, andthat was just a passion for
(06:13):
helping people.
So I ended up going into thenonprofit realm.
I did a lot of things there andthen one day I remember being
in a workshop teaching peopleabout lead and different things
how to avoid that in their homesand somebody was like you
should be an energy educator.
And I just looked at them.
I was like that's not a realthing, is it?
(06:33):
Is that a job?
And they were like yeah, youjust go around and teach people
how to lower their energy usage.
And I've been there ever sinceand have loved it amazingly.
So I actually fell into theindustry on accident, but with a
lot of purpose.
Ian Perterer (06:53):
Wow.
I think that's a really truestory for so many individuals
out there.
There are some of us who wantedto work in industry this
industry, it's always been ourpassion and then there are some
people who come to our industryyou know, from other industries
or other life situations and endup falling in love with it.
I think that is very much thestory of emerging professionals
(07:18):
like you and like me.
I think I've slightly aged outof ASP's definition of emerging
professionals.
I've been in the industry forseven years now and I think we
consider it five and under, soI'm just aged out of it, but the
memories are still fresh, so Iknow exactly what you're talking
about.
Angie Bivens (07:35):
Love it and I will never call you a middle age
professional, don't worry, justkidding.
Ian Perterer (07:40):
Well, like you said, as long as you don't look
like it.
Angie Bivens (07:43):
No, that's right.
Ian Perterer (07:45):
So now you tell us a little bit about your
backstory when you're enteringthe industry.
You know what.
What tools did you have at yourdisposal?
I mean, what were you able tograsp that helped make a
positive difference in yourability to get up to speed?
Angie Bivens (08:01):
Yeah.
So, as far as the resources outthere, I definitely, when I
came in, like I said, I waspretty much green, so I needed
to get caught up as quick aspossible.
The first place, I went to theInternet.
Right, I went to all thetrusted online resources.
So I started with the oneresource that I was like can't
(08:21):
be wrong, it's got to be right.
I went to energygov, literallyjust started tearing through
everything, and that led me tothe BPA and BPI websites, which
help with some of the overalltechnical terms and the
technical stuff, all the thingsthat I felt like I was swimming
in at home.
Once I got through a lot of theonline stuff, I was like, all
(08:44):
right, I need more detailed, Ineed to understand.
I got in.
I got involved with an energycouncil here in Delaware.
There was some policy changeshappening and we they had
started up a council.
So I was in these councilmeetings and again I'm hearing
these terms flying around andI'm like, ok, I know none of
these acronyms, I don't knowwhat's going on.
(09:05):
So that's when I startedturning from the Internet to
going to local trusted resourcesI could find.
So, along with the councilmembers, some of them I would
reach out to get information.
I also, in Philly, shout out toECA, the energy coordinating
agency.
I was able to get in contactwith them and I have to give
(09:28):
them credit.
There was a young lady therenamed BJ and BJ did all of their
workshops and to this day I cansay she helped lay a great
foundation for me on how todeliver a workshop, how to work
the community.
And another great place where Iwas able to get some resources
was right internal when I gothired with Franklin.
Franklin had a lot of onlineresources, videos, different
(09:52):
things I could watch and learn.
So all of that just mainly alot of research myself and
dealing with those who arealready in the industry.
Ian Perterer (10:01):
That's great.
I think that's something that wedon't hear a lot about in the
education discourse in ourindustry that when we're talking
to emerging professionals, alot of the emphasis that we
place is some of the things thatyou did right, going to the BPA
, bpi website, going toenergygov, these sorts of things
(10:23):
but you don't really hear a lotof us telling people we'll go
get involved in these localorganizations.
I think that's a really nicenugget that we could take out of
this conversation that we couldshare with any emerging
professional really is to notjust keep it to the internet at
the national level.
That there are a lot of localorganizations that you know, in
(10:44):
addition to putting it in alocal context, can really help
you build up a network of peersas well as a network of local
knowledge.
That probably will help get youmore nuance and up to speed in
some of the more wonky areas,should we say, than maybe doing
(11:04):
just an internet search orreading a blog post or something
like that.
So I think that's a reallygreat idea of something that any
emerging professional can use,right.
Angie Bivens (11:15):
Agreed, agreed.
Yeah, it's definitely.
It does something for you.
You're right, it's one thing tohear this term or to do some
research online and find outabout it, but when you can
actually see how it's working inyour state or how something
that you looked up is beingutilized by others within your
local area, it helps solidifythings for you and then it opens
(11:38):
those creative doors for youalso.
Ian Perterer (11:41):
So now I want to ask you about the flip side.
You know so those are thethings that helped you, but are
there barriers Whether that youknow, access or professional
development, or if there arepersonal barriers, what are the
barriers that a person, anemerging professional like
yourself, had to overcome?
That maybe, whether it's autility or a solution provider,
(12:02):
that these employers are notreally considering or thinking
about?
Angie Bivens (12:07):
Yeah.
So that actually is a very goodone and one that I would love
to tackle because the barriers,you know, I'd hate to think that
someone would run from a job inthis field thinking, oh well,
you know, I'm just not qualifiedfor this, so this is over my
head or this is this like, likeno, the barriers within the
field are overcomeable.
The first barrier for me,biggest one probably, and I've
(12:30):
said it already a few times werethe terms, the jargon, the
industry lingo as it is, a lotof the acronyms and stuff.
And when I began to hear peopletalking like, oh wait, energy
efficiency is way too technicalFor me, I don't think I can do
this, I'm not an engineer and itscared me.
But once I began to learn thebasics, it put everything else
(12:53):
into play for me.
And then another big thingaround that was what I said a
moment ago having findingmentors, finding those that
could bring something so bigsome of these terms down to a
bite-sized level for me werereally important.
Another barrier or concern thatI had was just finding my own
(13:13):
voice, my own pathway in energyefficiency.
When I first came in, like Isaid, I was offered the energy
educator role and I wasn't sureabout that.
But then I began to do moreresearch and find out what roles
were available.
I found out that pretty muchI'm not going to say everything,
but whatever you're currentlydoing, there is probably a role
(13:36):
for it within energy efficiencyin some way, shape or form.
So I had found out differentpathways and I'm still, even now
, researching.
And the good thing about thisfield is because it's growing
and it's changing.
You may have an opportunity tobuild your own position, so I
love that about it.
But it can seem like a barrierat first, especially if you're
(13:57):
used to being doing one specificthing or doing it one specific
way.
And lastly, another big barrieror concern that I had was
diversity.
So you can't see me, but Ioften call myself a unicorn just
because I am a youngprofessional and I am black in
(14:18):
this field.
So I feel myself in a lot ofsituations where no one looked
like me and it was a concern.
The one thing I can say is,since seeing that I try to be
this champion right, anytime Imeet a female looking for a
position, anytime I meet anyperson of color that's looking
for a position, I'm like haveyou considered energy efficiency
(14:39):
, so being a spokesperson there,but also joining certain
associations.
I'm now about to join the Abegroup as the American
Association of Blacks and Energy, but this group was amazing to
find because I met so many otherindividuals in the field and it
overcame that barrier and alsogave me even more of a push, or
(15:02):
ignited more of a fire, to domore and to encourage more
diversity in the field.
Ian Perterer (15:08):
Yeah, that's a great perspective.
I think diversity, equity andinclusion obviously a big focus
at AESP, but I'm so glad thatthere are so many groups out
there in the energy space sothat if you are looking for
something specific to help youout in your unique circumstance,
there's always a home to go toand if you have a chance, anyone
(15:28):
who's listening definitely gocheck out Abe.
That's A-A-B-E.
They're a fantasticorganization and AESP we've
collaborated with them severaltimes and intend to do so in the
future.
They're doing really, reallywonderful work.
So I think those are some greatbarriers or ever great, but
they're good to point out.
(15:48):
They are something that youwould not consider, I think,
especially if you're coming outof college, let's say, and
you're probably the first timeon the job, you're not really
aware of these things, but theyare forefront concerns,
especially if you have had priorlives, prior occupations.
Like you are well aware of thedynamics that happen in the
(16:09):
workplace, and so that has to besomething that is absolutely
forefront in your mind.
Angie Bivens (16:14):
Well, said well said.
Ian Perterer (16:16):
Speaking of prior lives, yes, prior lives.
Nothing sorted, I promise.
But when we're thinking aboutemerging professionals who are
coming to us from otherindustries, other lives, not
necessarily out of college orgraduate school, you're talking
about a great and, I think,underutilized group of
(16:39):
individuals who bring with thema wealth of knowledge from prior
working experiences, priorpersonal experiences.
What are some of the skillsfrom your prior work lives that
you brought with you, and howcan someone who's looking to be
a mentor or supervisor bring outthose nuggets of knowledge or
(17:03):
those skills?
How can they best help energizeyou to put those skills to work
?
Angie Bivens (17:10):
So I'd start with the fact that any good mentor or
any good supervisor shouldstart by basically taking an
inventory of you and what yourskills are.
Over your expertise, like Isaid a moment ago, I'm sure
there is a place within theenergy industry where you can be
utilized.
My background was in marketing,community engagement, even also
(17:33):
working with children, and sowhen I started in this role, I
felt like, oh, I don't know howmuch these skills are going to
take play into energy, and atfirst it was minimal.
It was a bit more minimal atfirst, but now do workshops with
children.
I do the marketing andengagement for the different
(17:54):
events that we have coming up.
So, as far as being a mentor anda supervisor, just a few things
that I would give suggestionsto with that are just to make
sure you've got really goodtwo-way communication with the
young professional that you'reworking with.
Also, make sure that you'recreating a supportive
environment, right, what skillsdo they currently have?
(18:16):
What skills do they want towork towards?
And then let's leverage anycuriosity and passions they have
.
That's really important.
Even me myself as a manager,I'm constantly talking with
those that work with me like,hey, how are you feeling about
your role.
Is there anything else I can doto help you feel more secure in
(18:38):
the role?
Do you have any goals, visions,dreams for your role?
So just that constant workingon it and working with them.
Ian Perterer (18:47):
Yeah, that's a really fantastic point of view
to have and I think it'ssomething that takes intentional
work right.
If you think about it, it's sovery easy, whether to be a
mentor or a supervisor.
It's very easy to fall intothat sort of call and response
dynamic of feedback, where it'sthe conversation as you walk
(19:08):
into a room or you press thejoin button on your teams and
the first thing is like, well,what do you have for me this
week?
And it's just like what are theproblems?
Let's fix that.
And it's so easy to fall intothat trap, right.
So it's good to point that outjust to really get the most out
of your mentor or yoursupervisor relationship, to
(19:30):
really have those more highlevel conversations, even if
they don't happen every week,just to make sure you work them
in right.
Angie Bivens (19:37):
Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely.
Ian Perterer (19:40):
And then I guess this is kind of a natural flow
is to just then what really doesmake the difference between a
good supervisor and a greatsupervisor of an emerging
professional.
Because I know a lot of peoplewho will say, oh, I'm a good
supervisor, or they thinkthey're a good supervisor.
Of course, we always all haveroom for improvement, but what
(20:02):
does it take to be a greatsupervisor of an emerging
professional from yourperspective?
Angie Bivens (20:08):
So in my perspective, there is definitely
a difference, definitely adifference.
I can say that in my many yearsof working, I've had many
different types of managers,many different types of
management style, and even memyself in being a manager.
At different times I've triedout different styles to see what
worked, and I can say the onething I noticed is that a good
(20:29):
manager just good they do thenecessary job of managing your
ability to do a job well.
So if you've got a good manager, they're going to make sure
you're doing your job again.
Well, it's being done.
But I feel like a great managertakes it up a notch and now
they're leading and guiding youin order to not just do your job
(20:51):
well, but they really want youto be an inspiration.
They want you to go beyond yourcurrent talents.
They want to see you progressinto the type of professional
that other people are looking atand going.
I want to be like them.
I want to do like them.
It's almost like if I were to goback.
My very first job wasMcDonald's.
So if I were to go back toMcDonald's, the good managers at
(21:14):
McDonald's make sure you knowhow to do your job.
You're a good worker, you'reflipping the burgers, you're
ringing up the food properly,you're good.
A great manager is going toteach you and educate you to the
point where you become theowner, you become the manager,
you become the top person, butthey're actually supervising you
(21:37):
in mind with pushing you as faras you want to go, as far as
your career will take you.
And great managers, or greatsupervisors, they show that and
I feel like you also see that inthe workforce that they have.
Ian Perterer (21:51):
Yeah, I can say that I kind of almost got a
little bit of some goosebumpswhen you were telling me that,
because I've always sat thereand thought my job is to make
sure my employees don't getstable, and that's kind of how
I've always thought about it formyself is to always make sure
I'm pushing them forward, andI've always had this
conversation when do you want toend up?
(22:12):
I'll help you get there, evenif it's not with this company, I
don't care what it is, let meknow.
Let's work towards that,because I tend to find you get
better performance when there isa desired state, or at the end
of this journey, or there's alight at the end of the tunnel.
You are absolutely right.
Angie Bivens (22:30):
I literally was just having this conversation
with one of my co-workersbecause I have been encouraging
the co-worker to go towardsmanagement and I was like, look,
it's kind of time You've beendoing a great job where you're
at, but I need you to grow.
And they were kind of giving mesome pushback like no, I like
(22:50):
what I'm doing, I like where I'mat, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, okay, all right.
And I just literally sat downwith them and was like, okay, I
need you to look at it like this.
What if I said that years ago,If I myself had said, ah, I'm
good where I'm at, I don't wantto be a manager?
I was like then I wouldn't beyour manager.
And then how would you feel?
And they began to think aboutit.
(23:12):
I was like now you could beholding up the next amazing
person that's behind you becauseyou feel like you're not ready,
even though he totally is andhe's already doing the job.
And then, when he reallystarted to think about it that
way, he realized how themajority of his reasoning was
very selfish and he has thatright to be a feel like, but
(23:34):
very selfish and he realized howit was pushing him out of his
own thoughts and he came backand was, like you know, not
smiling about it.
It was like thank you, yourwords were correct.
Jen Szaro (23:44):
I'm going to go ahead with it.
Angie Bivens (23:46):
You know it was one of those.
I accepted, you know, and thatwas part of my role of being a
great supervisor.
I could have been good and saidyou know what, fine, if you
don't want to, that's okay, butas his supervisor, I'm seeing
that he's growing and he wasabout to just stop his own
growth.
So, you know, it's that littlepush that takes you from good to
(24:07):
great and then you make greatpeople as well.
Ian Perterer (24:10):
I think that could even just be the theme of this
podcast episode from good togreat.
That kind of wraps it up rightthere.
Well, I want to thank you forhopping on with me today, but I
want to end with like a fewpersonal questions.
It's a rapid fire so that theaudience gets to know you a
little bit better, and also whenyou're listening out there, if
you want to connect with Angie,you can go find her on LinkedIn
(24:32):
or TikTok.
That energy girl.
We got a TikTok queen in thehouse, so go look up Angie
Bivens.
That's A-N-G-A-N-G-I-E,bivens-b-i-v-e-n-s at Franklin
Energy.
So let's hop right into it.
First question what motivatesyou to get out of bed in the
morning?
Angie Bivens (24:52):
Oh, this one's easy and you are going to get
the blunt and honest truth.
What motivates me to get out ofbed every morning and don't go
scared on me.
Everybody.
It might sound cheesy, but it'smy children.
And the reason is not mychildren just because, oh, my
God, mommy loves you so much.
That's true, let's not get thattwisted.
I do do what I do to make surethey're supported, because, my
(25:13):
God, they can eat.
But it's my children, because Ireally do see the world through
them.
I am a mother of four and Iknow somebody's going to sit up
and do the math on me.
Yes, I was a teen parent.
The reason why I see the worldthrough the eyes of my children
is because of their ages.
I have one at every level ofschooling.
(25:33):
I've got 24 and then I've gotanother adult, I've got a high
schooler and then I've got anelementary child.
But by having each of theirviews, I see the world through
each of them and it always is aconstant reminder that I got to
push harder.
I've got my adult daughter,who's in the workforce.
She's actually coming out ofthe National Guard, but she's
got a lot going on and I'm like,oh my gosh, you have to deal
(25:56):
with this world.
And then all the way down to mybaby girl and I'm like what
kind of world will it be for youif people like me aren't using
our passion in order to dosomething great?
So they're my motivation everyday.
When I'm tired, when I'm like,oh, I don't think I can go one
more day, I need a nap.
I'm like, nope, my kids, futuregenerations, they need not just
(26:20):
me, but they need everythinggoing on in this industry right
now.
So I got to push a little bitharder.
Ian Perterer (26:25):
That's so sweet.
Oh my gosh.
Now next rapid fire questionwhat is your guilty pleasure?
One guilty pleasure, somethingthat would actually you'd be at
least mildly embarrassed.
I'll say like, oh, my guiltypleasure is ice cream.
Angie Bivens (26:39):
Oh yeah, no, it's a guilty pleasure and hopefully
no one comes after me for this.
First thing that comes to mindis probably cartoons.
So when I unwind, when I wantto be done for the day cartoons,
bob's Burgers, the Simpsons,any animated show I will sponge
(27:00):
Bob, whatever is fun.
But for that amount of time Idon't have to focus on work.
I'm not focused on stress orissues of life, I am just
laughing at nonsense.
So that is probably myguiltyest pleasure that at any
moment my kids will pop into myroom and I'm just like dropping
(27:21):
the remote Like no, I wasn't, Iwasn't watching, like fish tails
, what are you talking about?
I don't know what's going on.
Ian Perterer (27:27):
I.
Actually we have something incommon I've watched Bob's
Burgers every evening before myfavorite.
Yes and then.
So one rapid fire industryquestion for you, and this is a
Sophie's choice.
So if you could choose onething, and only one thing, to
change about the energy industry, only one, what would it be?
Angie Bivens (27:47):
Oh my gosh.
So just one thing that I wouldchange.
Okay, I'm probably going to getshot for this one too.
It's the acronyms.
Can we please must everythingbe abbreviated to?
You know, if all the letters ofthis acronym spell out a
sentence, it's too long.
It is too long.
So that's probably.
(28:08):
I know to some they're probablythink, oh, that's not even that
bad.
There's some real issues wecould get rid of.
It's just annoying to me, assoon as I feel like I've learned
a lot of the acronyms, peoplewill start in the middle of a
conversation throwing out newones and I just have to be like,
okay, stop what is in PPSQRT.
I'm sorry, I know it's probablytrivial to something like
(28:28):
you're going to pick somethingbigger, but that is a pet peeve
for me.
Ian Perterer (28:33):
Well, I got to say there is a new acronym every
minute.
I will say Well, angie, I wantto say thank you for joining us
and I hope our listeners willtake a chance to look you up and
connect with you and learn moreabout your amazing story and
learn more in their spare timeabout the great tax-free state
of Delaware.
Angie Bivens (28:54):
Well, I thank you so much for having me on.
Thank you to you personally forbeing an amazing host on today.
Ian Perterer (29:01):
You've been great.
Angie Bivens (29:02):
Look, we've both just been grinning.
Our cheeks are going to hurtafter.
But also thank you to AESP forthe opportunity.
Still love the award.
Look, it's right around heresomewhere.
I got to find it, but it's onthis messy desk of mine right
now.
How much I love it.
As soon as I came home with itI bragged to everybody about it.
But more so for theopportunities and everything
(29:23):
that AESP is doing.
Thank you guys as well.
Ian Perterer (29:28):
Thank you so much and I look forward to talking to
you again soon.
Angie Bivens (29:32):
All right, we'll do have a great one, and thanks.
Bye.
Hi there and welcome back to the Energy Beat podcast.
I'm your host, Jen Szaro.
Today, we're going to trysomething different.
I'll be turning over themicrophone to Ian Perterer, aesp
Senior Manager of Marketing andCommunications, and he'll be
speaking with Angie Bibbins, theOutreach Manager at Franklin
(00:28):
Energy, and reaching people isdefinitely something Angie's
great at.
If you haven't had the chanceto meet Angie, you're in for a
treat.
She really knows how to createa buzz on social media.
So have a listen as Angie andIan talk through her unique
journey to becoming a cleanenergy professional.
I hope you enjoy.
Ian Perterer (00:51):
So thank you everybody for joining me.
I am Ian Perterer.
I am the Senior Manager ofMarketing and Communications.
I'm here with Angie Bivens ofFranklin Energy.
Hi, angie, thank you so muchfor joining us.
Angie Bivens (01:06):
Hi, ian, and thank you for having me on.
I'm super excited to be heretoday.
Ian Perterer (01:11):
I know.
I first got a chance to meetyou at our annual conference in
New Orleans and I got to sayyou've got such an infectious
personality that it's just it'shard not to smile when I'm
talking to you.
Angie Bivens (01:25):
Well, awesome.
I was hoping my smile wasportraying through my voice, so
if that's working, everybodythat watches should be smiling
right along with us.
Ian Perterer (01:33):
They better be.
I hope they're listening to iton a weekend or at least a
leisurely morning or somethinglike that.
So let's go ahead and let'sstart with like the nuts and
bolts of our conversation.
First, let's tell the audiencea little bit about yourself.
Tell them about your employer,franklin Energy, what they do in
the energy space, and then alsotell us what you do at Franklin
(01:55):
Energy.
Angie Bivens (01:56):
Well, do, well, do so.
I work directly for FranklinEnergy and Franklin Energy is an
energy management and energyprogram resource to utilities,
municipalities, businesses andcustomers across the nation.
So we work in various statesand I am in the mighty huge
state of Delaware.
The organization that has hiredFranklin Energy to do some of
(02:21):
their programming is calledEnergize Delaware and I'm an
outreach manager with Franklinon behalf of Energize Delaware
and my main role is to docommunity outreach, community
engagement, and I oversee aprogram it's an LMI low to
moderate income program thatjust helps families and
individuals in their homes tosave on their energy bill.
(02:43):
So I have the best job on theplanet.
Ian Perterer (02:46):
Oh, I love it.
I absolutely love it and alsovery important to know the
tax-free state of Delaware.
Angie Bivens (02:54):
Yes.
Ian Perterer (02:55):
Thank you.
Angie Bivens (02:56):
Clark for Delaware .
Ian Perterer (02:58):
Yes, look, if you're ever there and you're
ever driving through, stop byand do some shopping.
Angie Bivens (03:03):
Yes, stop at the beaches, then you get the beach
and you get the tax-freeshopping.
It's amazing.
Ian Perterer (03:08):
Yes exactly so.
One of the things that struckme when I got the chance to meet
with you at annual conferenceis you won our Emerging
Professional of the Year award.
And for the listeners who don'tknow, every year AESP releases
a series of awards called theEnergy Awards to recognize
outstanding members, outstandingprojects, really the movers and
(03:32):
shakers in our little AESPworld who are doing incredible
things, whether that be aproject or just a career story
or a plan.
That we think is inspiring.
So AESP's definition of anemerging professional I think is
kind of interesting, right inthe energy space, or really
(03:55):
maybe even larger than theenergy space, because it really
doesn't have anything to do withage If you stop and think about
it.
A lot of times when you hearemerging professionals you're
talking lists that tell you thetop 25 professionals under 25 or
the 30 under 30 or the 40 under40.
And our definition really hasnothing to do with that.
(04:16):
It has nothing to do with yourage or how long you've been out
of college.
It's really all about whereverin your life journey you are,
how deep or how much time haveyou spent in the energy industry
.
So you're not at 25 under 25.
You're not at 30 under 30.
You fall in that nottraditionally thought of
(04:37):
category of emergingprofessional Right.
So tell us about your backstoryand how you wound up in the
energy industry.
Angie Bivens (04:46):
Thank you for that .
Now everybody's like, oh mygosh, how old is she?
No, I definitely would bebarely under the 40, under 40.
I am turning 40 this year, but,most importantly, don't look
like it.
So that's the goal.
But my backstory actuallystarted just not in a good light
(05:08):
, Unfortunately.
I was a very young mom and Ihad small children.
I was actually married andunfortunately I was in a bit of
an abusive relationship.
So I found myself with allthese small kids needing to get
out, needing to start my lifeover, and I had one major
hindrance to getting a new placeand that was my energy bill.
(05:31):
At the time, the youngest childI had recently just had had
some heart conditions.
I know it's like all this stuffgot piled on top of me, but you
know that's when you get thebest story out of it.
When you got to fight your wayout a little bit.
So a youngest baby had a heartcondition, I wasn't able to work
and my energy bill just keptgoing up sky high, literally.
(05:51):
I still have that bill.
It was over $1,600.
And they were like either payit or returning it off, and so
at the time I went through,found as many resources on my
own, as I could workedeverything out.
Long story short, I ended upgetting it back on, but that led
to a new passion for me, andthat was just a passion for
(06:13):
helping people.
So I ended up going into thenonprofit realm.
I did a lot of things there andthen one day I remember being
in a workshop teaching peopleabout lead and different things
how to avoid that in their homesand somebody was like you
should be an energy educator.
And I just looked at them.
I was like that's not a realthing, is it?
(06:33):
Is that a job?
And they were like yeah, youjust go around and teach people
how to lower their energy usage.
And I've been there ever sinceand have loved it amazingly.
So I actually fell into theindustry on accident, but with a
lot of purpose.
Ian Perterer (06:53):
Wow.
I think that's a really truestory for so many individuals
out there.
There are some of us who wantedto work in industry this
industry, it's always been ourpassion and then there are some
people who come to our industryyou know, from other industries
or other life situations and endup falling in love with it.
I think that is very much thestory of emerging professionals
(07:18):
like you and like me.
I think I've slightly aged outof ASP's definition of emerging
professionals.
I've been in the industry forseven years now and I think we
consider it five and under, soI'm just aged out of it, but the
memories are still fresh, so Iknow exactly what you're talking
about.
Angie Bivens (07:35):
Love it and I will never call you a middle age
professional, don't worry, justkidding.
Ian Perterer (07:40):
Well, like you said, as long as you don't look
like it.
Angie Bivens (07:43):
No, that's right.
Ian Perterer (07:45):
So now you tell us a little bit about your
backstory when you're enteringthe industry.
You know what.
What tools did you have at yourdisposal?
I mean, what were you able tograsp that helped make a
positive difference in yourability to get up to speed?
Angie Bivens (08:01):
Yeah.
So, as far as the resources outthere, I definitely, when I
came in, like I said, I waspretty much green, so I needed
to get caught up as quick aspossible.
The first place, I went to theInternet.
Right, I went to all thetrusted online resources.
So I started with the oneresource that I was like can't
(08:21):
be wrong, it's got to be right.
I went to energygov, literallyjust started tearing through
everything, and that led me tothe BPA and BPI websites, which
help with some of the overalltechnical terms and the
technical stuff, all the thingsthat I felt like I was swimming
in at home.
Once I got through a lot of theonline stuff, I was like, all
(08:44):
right, I need more detailed, Ineed to understand.
I got in.
I got involved with an energycouncil here in Delaware.
There was some policy changeshappening and we they had
started up a council.
So I was in these councilmeetings and again I'm hearing
these terms flying around andI'm like, ok, I know none of
these acronyms, I don't knowwhat's going on.
(09:05):
So that's when I startedturning from the Internet to
going to local trusted resourcesI could find.
So, along with the councilmembers, some of them I would
reach out to get information.
I also, in Philly, shout out toECA, the energy coordinating
agency.
I was able to get in contactwith them and I have to give
(09:28):
them credit.
There was a young lady therenamed BJ and BJ did all of their
workshops and to this day I cansay she helped lay a great
foundation for me on how todeliver a workshop, how to work
the community.
And another great place where Iwas able to get some resources
was right internal when I gothired with Franklin.
Franklin had a lot of onlineresources, videos, different
(09:52):
things I could watch and learn.
So all of that just mainly alot of research myself and
dealing with those who arealready in the industry.
Ian Perterer (10:01):
That's great.
I think that's something that wedon't hear a lot about in the
education discourse in ourindustry that when we're talking
to emerging professionals, alot of the emphasis that we
place is some of the things thatyou did right, going to the BPA
, bpi website, going toenergygov, these sorts of things
(10:23):
but you don't really hear a lotof us telling people we'll go
get involved in these localorganizations.
I think that's a really nicenugget that we could take out of
this conversation that we couldshare with any emerging
professional really is to notjust keep it to the internet at
the national level.
That there are a lot of localorganizations that you know, in
(10:44):
addition to putting it in alocal context, can really help
you build up a network of peersas well as a network of local
knowledge.
That probably will help get youmore nuance and up to speed in
some of the more wonky areas,should we say, than maybe doing
(11:04):
just an internet search orreading a blog post or something
like that.
So I think that's a reallygreat idea of something that any
emerging professional can use,right.
Angie Bivens (11:15):
Agreed, agreed.
Yeah, it's definitely.
It does something for you.
You're right, it's one thing tohear this term or to do some
research online and find outabout it, but when you can
actually see how it's working inyour state or how something
that you looked up is beingutilized by others within your
local area, it helps solidifythings for you and then it opens
(11:38):
those creative doors for youalso.
Ian Perterer (11:41):
So now I want to ask you about the flip side.
You know so those are thethings that helped you, but are
there barriers Whether that youknow, access or professional
development, or if there arepersonal barriers, what are the
barriers that a person, anemerging professional like
yourself, had to overcome?
That maybe, whether it's autility or a solution provider,
(12:02):
that these employers are notreally considering or thinking
about?
Angie Bivens (12:07):
Yeah.
So that actually is a very goodone and one that I would love
to tackle because the barriers,you know, I'd hate to think that
someone would run from a job inthis field thinking, oh well,
you know, I'm just not qualifiedfor this, so this is over my
head or this is this like, likeno, the barriers within the
field are overcomeable.
The first barrier for me,biggest one probably, and I've
(12:30):
said it already a few times werethe terms, the jargon, the
industry lingo as it is, a lotof the acronyms and stuff.
And when I began to hear peopletalking like, oh wait, energy
efficiency is way too technicalFor me, I don't think I can do
this, I'm not an engineer and itscared me.
But once I began to learn thebasics, it put everything else
(12:53):
into play for me.
And then another big thingaround that was what I said a
moment ago having findingmentors, finding those that
could bring something so bigsome of these terms down to a
bite-sized level for me werereally important.
Another barrier or concern thatI had was just finding my own
(13:13):
voice, my own pathway in energyefficiency.
When I first came in, like Isaid, I was offered the energy
educator role and I wasn't sureabout that.
But then I began to do moreresearch and find out what roles
were available.
I found out that pretty muchI'm not going to say everything,
but whatever you're currentlydoing, there is probably a role
(13:36):
for it within energy efficiencyin some way, shape or form.
So I had found out differentpathways and I'm still, even now
, researching.
And the good thing about thisfield is because it's growing
and it's changing.
You may have an opportunity tobuild your own position, so I
love that about it.
But it can seem like a barrierat first, especially if you're
(13:57):
used to being doing one specificthing or doing it one specific
way.
And lastly, another big barrieror concern that I had was
diversity.
So you can't see me, but Ioften call myself a unicorn just
because I am a youngprofessional and I am black in
(14:18):
this field.
So I feel myself in a lot ofsituations where no one looked
like me and it was a concern.
The one thing I can say is,since seeing that I try to be
this champion right, anytime Imeet a female looking for a
position, anytime I meet anyperson of color that's looking
for a position, I'm like haveyou considered energy efficiency
(14:39):
, so being a spokesperson there,but also joining certain
associations.
I'm now about to join the Abegroup as the American
Association of Blacks and Energy, but this group was amazing to
find because I met so many otherindividuals in the field and it
overcame that barrier and alsogave me even more of a push, or
(15:02):
ignited more of a fire, to domore and to encourage more
diversity in the field.
Ian Perterer (15:08):
Yeah, that's a great perspective.
I think diversity, equity andinclusion obviously a big focus
at AESP, but I'm so glad thatthere are so many groups out
there in the energy space sothat if you are looking for
something specific to help youout in your unique circumstance,
there's always a home to go toand if you have a chance, anyone
(15:28):
who's listening definitely gocheck out Abe.
That's A-A-B-E.
They're a fantasticorganization and AESP we've
collaborated with them severaltimes and intend to do so in the
future.
They're doing really, reallywonderful work.
So I think those are some greatbarriers or ever great, but
they're good to point out.
(15:48):
They are something that youwould not consider, I think,
especially if you're coming outof college, let's say, and
you're probably the first timeon the job, you're not really
aware of these things, but theyare forefront concerns,
especially if you have had priorlives, prior occupations.
Like you are well aware of thedynamics that happen in the
(16:09):
workplace, and so that has to besomething that is absolutely
forefront in your mind.
Angie Bivens (16:14):
Well, said well said.
Ian Perterer (16:16):
Speaking of prior lives, yes, prior lives.
Nothing sorted, I promise.
But when we're thinking aboutemerging professionals who are
coming to us from otherindustries, other lives, not
necessarily out of college orgraduate school, you're talking
about a great and, I think,underutilized group of
(16:39):
individuals who bring with thema wealth of knowledge from prior
working experiences, priorpersonal experiences.
What are some of the skillsfrom your prior work lives that
you brought with you, and howcan someone who's looking to be
a mentor or supervisor bring outthose nuggets of knowledge or
(17:03):
those skills?
How can they best help energizeyou to put those skills to work
?
Angie Bivens (17:10):
So I'd start with the fact that any good mentor or
any good supervisor shouldstart by basically taking an
inventory of you and what yourskills are.
Over your expertise, like Isaid a moment ago, I'm sure
there is a place within theenergy industry where you can be
utilized.
My background was in marketing,community engagement, even also
(17:33):
working with children, and sowhen I started in this role, I
felt like, oh, I don't know howmuch these skills are going to
take play into energy, and atfirst it was minimal.
It was a bit more minimal atfirst, but now do workshops with
children.
I do the marketing andengagement for the different
(17:54):
events that we have coming up.
So, as far as being a mentor anda supervisor, just a few things
that I would give suggestionsto with that are just to make
sure you've got really goodtwo-way communication with the
young professional that you'reworking with.
Also, make sure that you'recreating a supportive
environment, right, what skillsdo they currently have?
(18:16):
What skills do they want towork towards?
And then let's leverage anycuriosity and passions they have
.
That's really important.
Even me myself as a manager,I'm constantly talking with
those that work with me like,hey, how are you feeling about
your role.
Is there anything else I can doto help you feel more secure in
(18:38):
the role?
Do you have any goals, visions,dreams for your role?
So just that constant workingon it and working with them.
Ian Perterer (18:47):
Yeah, that's a really fantastic point of view
to have and I think it'ssomething that takes intentional
work right.
If you think about it, it's sovery easy, whether to be a
mentor or a supervisor.
It's very easy to fall intothat sort of call and response
dynamic of feedback, where it'sthe conversation as you walk
(19:08):
into a room or you press thejoin button on your teams and
the first thing is like, well,what do you have for me this
week?
And it's just like what are theproblems?
Let's fix that.
And it's so easy to fall intothat trap, right.
So it's good to point that outjust to really get the most out
of your mentor or yoursupervisor relationship, to
(19:30):
really have those more highlevel conversations, even if
they don't happen every week,just to make sure you work them
in right.
Angie Bivens (19:37):
Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely.
Ian Perterer (19:40):
And then I guess this is kind of a natural flow
is to just then what really doesmake the difference between a
good supervisor and a greatsupervisor of an emerging
professional.
Because I know a lot of peoplewho will say, oh, I'm a good
supervisor, or they thinkthey're a good supervisor.
Of course, we always all haveroom for improvement, but what
(20:02):
does it take to be a greatsupervisor of an emerging
professional from yourperspective?
Angie Bivens (20:08):
So in my perspective, there is definitely
a difference, definitely adifference.
I can say that in my many yearsof working, I've had many
different types of managers,many different types of
management style, and even memyself in being a manager.
At different times I've triedout different styles to see what
worked, and I can say the onething I noticed is that a good
(20:29):
manager just good they do thenecessary job of managing your
ability to do a job well.
So if you've got a good manager, they're going to make sure
you're doing your job again.
Well, it's being done.
But I feel like a great managertakes it up a notch and now
they're leading and guiding youin order to not just do your job
(20:51):
well, but they really want youto be an inspiration.
They want you to go beyond yourcurrent talents.
They want to see you progressinto the type of professional
that other people are looking atand going.
I want to be like them.
I want to do like them.
It's almost like if I were to goback.
My very first job wasMcDonald's.
So if I were to go back toMcDonald's, the good managers at
(21:14):
McDonald's make sure you knowhow to do your job.
You're a good worker, you'reflipping the burgers, you're
ringing up the food properly,you're good.
A great manager is going toteach you and educate you to the
point where you become theowner, you become the manager,
you become the top person, butthey're actually supervising you
(21:37):
in mind with pushing you as faras you want to go, as far as
your career will take you.
And great managers, or greatsupervisors, they show that and
I feel like you also see that inthe workforce that they have.
Ian Perterer (21:51):
Yeah, I can say that I kind of almost got a
little bit of some goosebumpswhen you were telling me that,
because I've always sat thereand thought my job is to make
sure my employees don't getstable, and that's kind of how
I've always thought about it formyself is to always make sure
I'm pushing them forward, andI've always had this
conversation when do you want toend up?
(22:12):
I'll help you get there, evenif it's not with this company, I
don't care what it is, let meknow.
Let's work towards that,because I tend to find you get
better performance when there isa desired state, or at the end
of this journey, or there's alight at the end of the tunnel.
You are absolutely right.
Angie Bivens (22:30):
I literally was just having this conversation
with one of my co-workersbecause I have been encouraging
the co-worker to go towardsmanagement and I was like, look,
it's kind of time You've beendoing a great job where you're
at, but I need you to grow.
And they were kind of giving mesome pushback like no, I like
(22:50):
what I'm doing, I like where I'mat, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, okay, all right.
And I just literally sat downwith them and was like, okay, I
need you to look at it like this.
What if I said that years ago,If I myself had said, ah, I'm
good where I'm at, I don't wantto be a manager?
I was like then I wouldn't beyour manager.
And then how would you feel?
And they began to think aboutit.
(23:12):
I was like now you could beholding up the next amazing
person that's behind you becauseyou feel like you're not ready,
even though he totally is andhe's already doing the job.
And then, when he reallystarted to think about it that
way, he realized how themajority of his reasoning was
very selfish and he has thatright to be a feel like, but
(23:34):
very selfish and he realized howit was pushing him out of his
own thoughts and he came backand was, like you know, not
smiling about it.
It was like thank you, yourwords were correct.
Jen Szaro (23:44):
I'm going to go ahead with it.
Angie Bivens (23:46):
You know it was one of those.
I accepted, you know, and thatwas part of my role of being a
great supervisor.
I could have been good and saidyou know what, fine, if you
don't want to, that's okay, butas his supervisor, I'm seeing
that he's growing and he wasabout to just stop his own
growth.
So, you know, it's that littlepush that takes you from good to
(24:07):
great and then you make greatpeople as well.
Ian Perterer (24:10):
I think that could even just be the theme of this
podcast episode from good togreat.
That kind of wraps it up rightthere.
Well, I want to thank you forhopping on with me today, but I
want to end with like a fewpersonal questions.
It's a rapid fire so that theaudience gets to know you a
little bit better, and also whenyou're listening out there, if
you want to connect with Angie,you can go find her on LinkedIn
(24:32):
or TikTok.
That energy girl.
We got a TikTok queen in thehouse, so go look up Angie
Bivens.
That's A-N-G-A-N-G-I-E,bivens-b-i-v-e-n-s at Franklin
Energy.
So let's hop right into it.
First question what motivatesyou to get out of bed in the
morning?
Angie Bivens (24:52):
Oh, this one's easy and you are going to get
the blunt and honest truth.
What motivates me to get out ofbed every morning and don't go
scared on me.
Everybody.
It might sound cheesy, but it'smy children.
And the reason is not mychildren just because, oh, my
God, mommy loves you so much.
That's true, let's not get thattwisted.
I do do what I do to make surethey're supported, because, my
(25:13):
God, they can eat.
But it's my children, because Ireally do see the world through
them.
I am a mother of four and Iknow somebody's going to sit up
and do the math on me.
Yes, I was a teen parent.
The reason why I see the worldthrough the eyes of my children
is because of their ages.
I have one at every level ofschooling.
(25:33):
I've got 24 and then I've gotanother adult, I've got a high
schooler and then I've got anelementary child.
But by having each of theirviews, I see the world through
each of them and it always is aconstant reminder that I got to
push harder.
I've got my adult daughter,who's in the workforce.
She's actually coming out ofthe National Guard, but she's
got a lot going on and I'm like,oh my gosh, you have to deal
(25:56):
with this world.
And then all the way down to mybaby girl and I'm like what
kind of world will it be for youif people like me aren't using
our passion in order to dosomething great?
So they're my motivation everyday.
When I'm tired, when I'm like,oh, I don't think I can go one
more day, I need a nap.
I'm like, nope, my kids, futuregenerations, they need not just
(26:20):
me, but they need everythinggoing on in this industry right
now.
So I got to push a little bitharder.
Ian Perterer (26:25):
That's so sweet.
Oh my gosh.
Now next rapid fire questionwhat is your guilty pleasure?
One guilty pleasure, somethingthat would actually you'd be at
least mildly embarrassed.
I'll say like, oh, my guiltypleasure is ice cream.
Angie Bivens (26:39):
Oh yeah, no, it's a guilty pleasure and hopefully
no one comes after me for this.
First thing that comes to mindis probably cartoons.
So when I unwind, when I wantto be done for the day cartoons,
bob's Burgers, the Simpsons,any animated show I will sponge
(27:00):
Bob, whatever is fun.
But for that amount of time Idon't have to focus on work.
I'm not focused on stress orissues of life, I am just
laughing at nonsense.
So that is probably myguiltyest pleasure that at any
moment my kids will pop into myroom and I'm just like dropping
(27:21):
the remote Like no, I wasn't, Iwasn't watching, like fish tails
, what are you talking about?
I don't know what's going on.
Ian Perterer (27:27):
I.
Actually we have something incommon I've watched Bob's
Burgers every evening before myfavorite.
Yes and then.
So one rapid fire industryquestion for you, and this is a
Sophie's choice.
So if you could choose onething, and only one thing, to
change about the energy industry, only one, what would it be?
Angie Bivens (27:47):
Oh my gosh.
So just one thing that I wouldchange.
Okay, I'm probably going to getshot for this one too.
It's the acronyms.
Can we please must everythingbe abbreviated to?
You know, if all the letters ofthis acronym spell out a
sentence, it's too long.
It is too long.
So that's probably.
(28:08):
I know to some they're probablythink, oh, that's not even that
bad.
There's some real issues wecould get rid of.
It's just annoying to me, assoon as I feel like I've learned
a lot of the acronyms, peoplewill start in the middle of a
conversation throwing out newones and I just have to be like,
okay, stop what is in PPSQRT.
I'm sorry, I know it's probablytrivial to something like
(28:28):
you're going to pick somethingbigger, but that is a pet peeve
for me.
Ian Perterer (28:33):
Well, I got to say there is a new acronym every
minute.
I will say Well, angie, I wantto say thank you for joining us
and I hope our listeners willtake a chance to look you up and
connect with you and learn moreabout your amazing story and
learn more in their spare timeabout the great tax-free state
of Delaware.
Angie Bivens (28:54):
Well, I thank you so much for having me on.
Thank you to you personally forbeing an amazing host on today.
Ian Perterer (29:01):
You've been great.
Angie Bivens (29:02):
Look, we've both just been grinning.
Our cheeks are going to hurtafter.
But also thank you to AESP forthe opportunity.
Still love the award.
Look, it's right around heresomewhere.
I got to find it, but it's onthis messy desk of mine right
now.
How much I love it.
As soon as I came home with itI bragged to everybody about it.
But more so for theopportunities and everything
(29:23):
that AESP is doing.
Thank you guys as well.
Ian Perterer (29:28):
Thank you so much and I look forward to talking to
you again soon.
Angie Bivens (29:32):
All right, we'll do have a great one, and thanks.
Bye.
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