March 24, 2025 • 11 mins
What happens when communities, consumers, and local innovators become key players in global supply chains? In this episode, host Peter Warren speaks with CGI Vice-Presidents Charley Wark and Helena Jochberger about the rise of the citizen supply chain—a powerful movement that’s reshaping how industries operate in a connected, digital world.
From manufacturing to energy, discover how organizations can embrace this shift to build more agile, transparent, and resilient supply networks. Learn why empowering people at every level of the value chain isn’t just a trend—it’s a competitive advantage in today’s connected economy.
Listen in for expert insights and real-world examples from global industry leaders.
Visit our Energy Transition Talks page
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Peter Warren (00:05):
Hello again, everyone.
Welcome back to anotherinstallment of our ongoing
discussions, this time about theecosystems.
Our podcasts have focused in ona variety of different subjects
, everything from how bankingimpacts energy, how energy
impacts health care, howmanufacturing is connected, and
really this comes down to aconcept that we've been working
(00:25):
with here in CGI called thecitizen supply chain, and so
today I've got two great guests.
We're going to discuss this indepth.
First, charlie Wark do you wantto introduce yourself?
Charley Wark (00:35):
That is my name, Charlie Wark.
I am head of our globalindustries at CGI.
Peter Warren (00:42):
And welcoming back Helena Josperger.
Helena, do you want tointroduce yourself again?
Helena Jochberger (00:47):
Sure, thank you for inviting me again.
My name is Helena Jochbergerand I'm the Global Industry Lead
for the ManufacturingIndustries at CGI.
Peter Warren (00:55):
So this is an interesting concept that we've
come up with called the citizensupply chain.
Maybe we'll start with you,Charlie.
What is it and what does itmean to you and what does it
mean to our audience?
Charley Wark (01:06):
Yeah, so the citizen supply chain.
If we start by just definingwhat the supply chain is, or a
supply chain is, of course everycompany has a unique supply
chain to be able to create theirgoods from step A to finished
product and landing on thedoorstep if it's a consumer
product of a customer.
(01:26):
So every company has a uniquesupply chain and every industry
has a supply chain that looksfamiliar for the industries.
A typical manufacturer of,let's say, sweaters have a
supply chain that looks similarto another industry, however
looks similar because it'shighly complex.
(01:46):
So every company supply chainis truly unique.
So, if we start by in thatcorner, then what is then the
citizen supply chain?
Well, the citizen supply chainis really, if you take the
citizen, somebody living in acountry, rather, and think about
what needs to happen, whatindustries need to come together
(02:10):
and work in order for thatcitizen to have their everyday
life functioning, in the waythat we flip a switch and the
light comes on, we open up arefrigerator and it's full of
food, we order something onlineand somebody from DoorDash
(02:30):
delivers our goods at our hands.
Or even, if we feel like gettingentertained, if we go to the
local movie theater and watch amovie and watch a movie.
So, if you think about thecomplexity of being able to have
the supply chains all work inunison to be able to uphold our
(02:53):
everyday life and the comfortsthat we have become used to.
Now, this isn't even mentioningall the supply chains that has
something to do with the publicsector, like government,
municipalities, etc.
So instead of looking at what asupply chain looks like from a
company perspective, we start,we put the citizen in the center
(03:15):
and we look at what needs tohappen for our everyday lives to
function in the societies wherewe live and operate, because we
also do business in the samesocieties.
Peter Warren (03:27):
So, helena, building upon that great
definition from Charlie, howdoes that impact manufacturing?
How did we sort of come up withthis?
I mean, you focus onmanufacturing, I focus on energy
and utilities.
We have our friend Andy inbanking and so on.
So how did this sort of comeabout?
Why are we looking at this?
Why does this matter to amanufacturing company, for
example?
Helena Jochberger (03:46):
Yes, absolutely.
I think we're living in quiteuncertain times, so things we
used to know, also in the valuechain, have changed, have
changed significantly, andtherefore, of course, every
industry needs to have a reallyresponsive and a resilient
supply chain.
Now how does that look inmanufacturing?
I mean, we are one of the mostheterogeneous industries.
(04:07):
On the one hand side, we havediscrete manufacturers that
produce effectively a product, acar or an aircraft.
On the other hand side, we dealwith process manufacturers like
big steel companies, likechemical companies, heavy energy
intensive manufacturers, andboth have their very dedicated
supply chains, as Charlie justsaid.
(04:27):
And, of course, when you looknow take, for example, the
discrete industry right, so thecar industry, it's a very
complex supply chain, it'sglobal supply chains and
sometimes we have seen thatthroughout the pandemic or other
events, this gets disrupted.
And then it's the question, ofcourse, how do we anticipate
that?
How do we make sure that ourcriticalities that we have down
(04:52):
in the chain can deliver aspromised?
For example, when you take theaerospace industry, you have
large OEMs that have up to 9,000suppliers that are directly
engaged in producing parts of anaircraft.
So how can we make sure?
A with the means of data, and Balso with the means of risk
(05:12):
management, and I know, peter,you and I, we talked a lot about
multi-tier risk management inthe supply chain.
So it's A to combine the riskwith B combine the data, and I
think this brings us a littlebit directly to the core of our
discussion.
Peter Warren (05:29):
I agree with you on that.
We've been using the wordsupply chain, but it is really
an ecosystem and we've evencoined the term a supply web.
I mean there's a complex mix ofthings.
Moving forward here to thecomplexity that Charlie pointed
out beyond, as the citizen looksat it, for a variety of things
and we tend to simplify.
(05:50):
Today I am an employee of ABCcompany.
I'm doing this, but when I gohome I'm a citizen doing stuff,
taking consumers' things.
So maybe back to you, charlie,this whole concept of the web,
how the citizen is getting thesethings in the complex fashion
back to them.
How does that play out?
How would you see data playinginto that?
How do you see people managingthat?
I mean, it's a magical thinghappening on its own, but as
(06:13):
things shift it is also underthreat.
Charley Wark (06:22):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think, number one.
When we talk about data, it'salso about having access to and
also really sharing the datathat your company have because
of the importance of being ableto function in this supply web.
So, when it comes to data, ofcourse, the transparent,
different technical solutions ofhaving the ecosystems for the
industry so you operate in thatcan share the data, that's super
(06:44):
important.
But I just wanted to alsoanother thing that I wanted to
just say.
When it comes to the citizenand Peter you touched upon it is
like when we go to work, we areyes, we're, of course, a part
of the company supply chain thatwe work for function in a good
way in the societies where welive also become a really
(07:05):
important component in all ofthe other industries, Because
when we go back to work, we arepart of another industry that it
needs to work for thatindustry's supply chain to be
(07:26):
resilient.
So it's definitely a given take.
It's one thing as a citizen, I'mrelying and depending on all
the other industry supply chainto function in this fantastic
unified way, but it's the otherway.
It's also gives the other wayright.
The companies also need me tohave a good, stable life as a
(07:48):
citizen in order for theirsupply chains to be secured.
Stable life as a citizen inorder for their supply chains to
be secured.
But one thing that we haven'ttalked so much about but it's
also, I think, what's importantis that every industry, every
company also realizes theimportance of their existence in
the citizen's supply chain, inthe citizen supply chain.
(08:11):
I think that is also in today'sday, in uncertainty and when
things are shifting in the world, I think that becomes even more
important.
Peter Warren (08:21):
I think where you were going is that you know it's
also important for people tohave the health care.
It's not just the physicalgoods, it's not just the
electricity.
I need to have a health care, Ineed to have a working
government, I need to have afunctioning police force and
fire and so on All the thingsthat a military is well,
unfortunately, to have theability to say that I am having
(08:42):
this life and these things areinterdependent and interwoven
and as we start to pick at anyone of those threads, it affects
all of them, and I think you'vegot some good stats here.
I think both of you have somegood stats to reference it.
But one of the gentlemen I wastalking to a little while ago,
an economist, was saying that ittakes about five months when
disruption happens.
Whether it's something majorlike the war in Europe, or
(09:03):
whether Ukraine, or whether it'sBrexit, it takes about five
months for people to adjust tothe shift.
But how do either one of yousee that happening?
Charley Wark (09:12):
Yeah for sure, and we have a lot of changes right
now Actually so many changesit's almost hard to keep up with
all of them.
There was a report that cameout in the World Economic Forum
their forum, their chiefeconomist outlook in February
that actually said that 94% ofthe people that they interviewed
predicts an increasedfragmentation of the supply
(09:36):
chains in the future.
That will most likely lead tophenomenons such as
friend-shoring, ie when acompany who have offshored their
parts of their supply chain toother countries will move some,
maybe production to a morequote-unquote friendly country.
(09:57):
And we can see examples of this.
For example, apple justrecently moved a lot of their
manufacturing to India fromChina.
That's a type of friend shoring.
And then another term that alsowas quoted in this report was
re-shoring.
So not reassuring, even thoughit's related right now, but
re-shoring meaning that a lot ofcompanies, for example European
(10:21):
companies, they look atbringing their production home
from offshored nations, forexample, back into Europe.
And of course, we see the samehappening in the US, where part
of their supply chain or themove is that the shift is that
the movement has started to goback to the US.
(10:42):
So this is indeed things thatare happening at the same time.
So I think the importance againyou touched upon it but the
transparency between and how allof these supply chain are
connected, to understand how themoves that one company is
making on their supply chainwill affect all the other supply
(11:02):
chains.
Peter Warren (11:04):
That's really good .
We'll pick up in part two onthis discussion with Helena and
we'll talk about how we see someof this affecting direct
clients of ours, what they'redoing, and we'll come back to
you in part two.
Thank you everyone.
Bye-bye.
Charley Wark (11:17):
Thank you.
Hello again, everyone.
Welcome back to anotherinstallment of our ongoing
discussions, this time about theecosystems.
Our podcasts have focused in ona variety of different subjects
, everything from how bankingimpacts energy, how energy
impacts health care, howmanufacturing is connected, and
really this comes down to aconcept that we've been working
(00:25):
with here in CGI called thecitizen supply chain, and so
today I've got two great guests.
We're going to discuss this indepth.
First, charlie Wark do you wantto introduce yourself?
Charley Wark (00:35):
That is my name, Charlie Wark.
I am head of our globalindustries at CGI.
Peter Warren (00:42):
And welcoming back Helena Josperger.
Helena, do you want tointroduce yourself again?
Helena Jochberger (00:47):
Sure, thank you for inviting me again.
My name is Helena Jochbergerand I'm the Global Industry Lead
for the ManufacturingIndustries at CGI.
Peter Warren (00:55):
So this is an interesting concept that we've
come up with called the citizensupply chain.
Maybe we'll start with you,Charlie.
What is it and what does itmean to you and what does it
mean to our audience?
Charley Wark (01:06):
Yeah, so the citizen supply chain.
If we start by just definingwhat the supply chain is, or a
supply chain is, of course everycompany has a unique supply
chain to be able to create theirgoods from step A to finished
product and landing on thedoorstep if it's a consumer
product of a customer.
(01:26):
So every company has a uniquesupply chain and every industry
has a supply chain that looksfamiliar for the industries.
A typical manufacturer of,let's say, sweaters have a
supply chain that looks similarto another industry, however
looks similar because it'shighly complex.
(01:46):
So every company supply chainis truly unique.
So, if we start by in thatcorner, then what is then the
citizen supply chain?
Well, the citizen supply chainis really, if you take the
citizen, somebody living in acountry, rather, and think about
what needs to happen, whatindustries need to come together
(02:10):
and work in order for thatcitizen to have their everyday
life functioning, in the waythat we flip a switch and the
light comes on, we open up arefrigerator and it's full of
food, we order something onlineand somebody from DoorDash
(02:30):
delivers our goods at our hands.
Or even, if we feel like gettingentertained, if we go to the
local movie theater and watch amovie and watch a movie.
So, if you think about thecomplexity of being able to have
the supply chains all work inunison to be able to uphold our
(02:53):
everyday life and the comfortsthat we have become used to.
Now, this isn't even mentioningall the supply chains that has
something to do with the publicsector, like government,
municipalities, etc.
So instead of looking at what asupply chain looks like from a
company perspective, we start,we put the citizen in the center
(03:15):
and we look at what needs tohappen for our everyday lives to
function in the societies wherewe live and operate, because we
also do business in the samesocieties.
Peter Warren (03:27):
So, helena, building upon that great
definition from Charlie, howdoes that impact manufacturing?
How did we sort of come up withthis?
I mean, you focus onmanufacturing, I focus on energy
and utilities.
We have our friend Andy inbanking and so on.
So how did this sort of comeabout?
Why are we looking at this?
Why does this matter to amanufacturing company, for
example?
Helena Jochberger (03:46):
Yes, absolutely.
I think we're living in quiteuncertain times, so things we
used to know, also in the valuechain, have changed, have
changed significantly, andtherefore, of course, every
industry needs to have a reallyresponsive and a resilient
supply chain.
Now how does that look inmanufacturing?
I mean, we are one of the mostheterogeneous industries.
(04:07):
On the one hand side, we havediscrete manufacturers that
produce effectively a product, acar or an aircraft.
On the other hand side, we dealwith process manufacturers like
big steel companies, likechemical companies, heavy energy
intensive manufacturers, andboth have their very dedicated
supply chains, as Charlie justsaid.
(04:27):
And, of course, when you looknow take, for example, the
discrete industry right, so thecar industry, it's a very
complex supply chain, it'sglobal supply chains and
sometimes we have seen thatthroughout the pandemic or other
events, this gets disrupted.
And then it's the question, ofcourse, how do we anticipate
that?
How do we make sure that ourcriticalities that we have down
(04:52):
in the chain can deliver aspromised?
For example, when you take theaerospace industry, you have
large OEMs that have up to 9,000suppliers that are directly
engaged in producing parts of anaircraft.
So how can we make sure?
A with the means of data, and Balso with the means of risk
(05:12):
management, and I know, peter,you and I, we talked a lot about
multi-tier risk management inthe supply chain.
So it's A to combine the riskwith B combine the data, and I
think this brings us a littlebit directly to the core of our
discussion.
Peter Warren (05:29):
I agree with you on that.
We've been using the wordsupply chain, but it is really
an ecosystem and we've evencoined the term a supply web.
I mean there's a complex mix ofthings.
Moving forward here to thecomplexity that Charlie pointed
out beyond, as the citizen looksat it, for a variety of things
and we tend to simplify.
(05:50):
Today I am an employee of ABCcompany.
I'm doing this, but when I gohome I'm a citizen doing stuff,
taking consumers' things.
So maybe back to you, charlie,this whole concept of the web,
how the citizen is getting thesethings in the complex fashion
back to them.
How does that play out?
How would you see data playinginto that?
How do you see people managingthat?
I mean, it's a magical thinghappening on its own, but as
(06:13):
things shift it is also underthreat.
Charley Wark (06:22):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think, number one.
When we talk about data, it'salso about having access to and
also really sharing the datathat your company have because
of the importance of being ableto function in this supply web.
So, when it comes to data, ofcourse, the transparent,
different technical solutions ofhaving the ecosystems for the
industry so you operate in thatcan share the data, that's super
(06:44):
important.
But I just wanted to alsoanother thing that I wanted to
just say.
When it comes to the citizenand Peter you touched upon it is
like when we go to work, we areyes, we're, of course, a part
of the company supply chain thatwe work for function in a good
way in the societies where welive also become a really
(07:05):
important component in all ofthe other industries, Because
when we go back to work, we arepart of another industry that it
needs to work for thatindustry's supply chain to be
(07:26):
resilient.
So it's definitely a given take.
It's one thing as a citizen, I'mrelying and depending on all
the other industry supply chainto function in this fantastic
unified way, but it's the otherway.
It's also gives the other wayright.
The companies also need me tohave a good, stable life as a
(07:48):
citizen in order for theirsupply chains to be secured.
Stable life as a citizen inorder for their supply chains to
be secured.
But one thing that we haven'ttalked so much about but it's
also, I think, what's importantis that every industry, every
company also realizes theimportance of their existence in
the citizen's supply chain, inthe citizen supply chain.
(08:11):
I think that is also in today'sday, in uncertainty and when
things are shifting in the world, I think that becomes even more
important.
Peter Warren (08:21):
I think where you were going is that you know it's
also important for people tohave the health care.
It's not just the physicalgoods, it's not just the
electricity.
I need to have a health care, Ineed to have a working
government, I need to have afunctioning police force and
fire and so on All the thingsthat a military is well,
unfortunately, to have theability to say that I am having
(08:42):
this life and these things areinterdependent and interwoven
and as we start to pick at anyone of those threads, it affects
all of them, and I think you'vegot some good stats here.
I think both of you have somegood stats to reference it.
But one of the gentlemen I wastalking to a little while ago,
an economist, was saying that ittakes about five months when
disruption happens.
Whether it's something majorlike the war in Europe, or
(09:03):
whether Ukraine, or whether it'sBrexit, it takes about five
months for people to adjust tothe shift.
But how do either one of yousee that happening?
Charley Wark (09:12):
Yeah for sure, and we have a lot of changes right
now Actually so many changesit's almost hard to keep up with
all of them.
There was a report that cameout in the World Economic Forum
their forum, their chiefeconomist outlook in February
that actually said that 94% ofthe people that they interviewed
predicts an increasedfragmentation of the supply
(09:36):
chains in the future.
That will most likely lead tophenomenons such as
friend-shoring, ie when acompany who have offshored their
parts of their supply chain toother countries will move some,
maybe production to a morequote-unquote friendly country.
(09:57):
And we can see examples of this.
For example, apple justrecently moved a lot of their
manufacturing to India fromChina.
That's a type of friend shoring.
And then another term that alsowas quoted in this report was
re-shoring.
So not reassuring, even thoughit's related right now, but
re-shoring meaning that a lot ofcompanies, for example European
(10:21):
companies, they look atbringing their production home
from offshored nations, forexample, back into Europe.
And of course, we see the samehappening in the US, where part
of their supply chain or themove is that the shift is that
the movement has started to goback to the US.
(10:42):
So this is indeed things thatare happening at the same time.
So I think the importance againyou touched upon it but the
transparency between and how allof these supply chain are
connected, to understand how themoves that one company is
making on their supply chainwill affect all the other supply
(11:02):
chains.
Peter Warren (11:04):
That's really good .
We'll pick up in part two onthis discussion with Helena and
we'll talk about how we see someof this affecting direct
clients of ours, what they'redoing, and we'll come back to
you in part two.
Thank you everyone.
Bye-bye.
Charley Wark (11:17):
Thank you.
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