April 7, 2025 • 13 mins
How is the energy transition reshaping global supply chains? In this episode of Energy Transition Talks, CGI experts explore how AI, digital twins, and sustainable energy are driving real-time agility, resilience, and progress toward net-zero. From Michelin’s planning shift to industry-wide collaboration, get insights on building the supply chain of tomorrow—today.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Peter Warren (00:04):
Hello everyone, Welcome back to part two of our
series exploring how we arediscussing the citizen supply
chain.
In part one, we talked aboutwhat a citizen supply chain is
and we did our best to define it, because it's a very wide and
complicated component.
We finished part one withCharlie giving a great
definition of how this is movingin and impacting and how
companies are looking to adaptto this.
(00:25):
Helena, I promised we'd comeback to you in part two and pick
up with some client examples.
Are clients changing the waythey're looking at supply chain?
Is it something they care about?
Are they doing it every year?
What's happening?
Helena Jochberger (00:37):
Yeah, definitely, there's a lot going
on, and I would say let's pickone of our large clients,
michelin, as one of our oldestclients, and the way they looked
at their supply chain in thepast was in the average frame of
three to five years.
Meanwhile, and also after thepandemic, this has changed to a
really very short-termperception on looking at the
supply chain, namely in twomonths, so three, four months
(01:01):
and sometimes even down to weeks, and that means, of course,
when you want to look at yoursupply chain and even take
changes, so take your supplychain to a more agile point of
view so that you're able toswitch from supplier A to
supplier B that needs the datafor it.
So, of course, the endeavorsthat we have taken the last
(01:22):
years between 2010 and 2020,where we were talking about
Industry 4, the fourthindustrial revolution that
continues to take place, becausewhat has been there in these
first 10 years of digitaltransformation was that we had a
lot of proof of concepts.
Right, we had proof of conceptsin various parts of the value
(01:42):
chain, might it be in R&D or inthe production, or also in the
after sales.
But what is still missing hereis also what we call industry
five, or the next level ofindustrial revolution, namely
becoming fully data driven as anenterprise, throughout the
entire enterprise, and thatdemands, of course, a systems
integration from the variouscore systems.
(02:03):
You have to generate thatsystems interoperability and
that data continuity and that,by the way, is not only within
my own company the case, butwhen we're talking about
ecosystems, we need to extendthat data continuity throughout
the ecosystem, and I think in sofar, the supply chain is really
(02:24):
also pushing that next level oftransformation right now.
Peter Warren (02:28):
I know that we haven't mentioned the ever
popular word of AI, but we dosee that that demand for data.
People are applying that totheir ecosystems now their
supply chains, to determine whatmoving forward.
So I guess when Michelin waslooking at their supply chain
every couple of years, datawasn't a key factor.
So it must be exponentiallymore important to them.
Are they looking at using newtools, or are there ones of your
(02:51):
clients looking to use newtools for this type of function?
Helena Jochberger (02:54):
Definitely, I would say, first is and this is
what we see throughout theglobe currently the homework of
getting the data strategy andthe data management or data
governance in place.
I would say that is thefoundation.
Once this has been built, then,of course, we can climb the
knowledge ladder so that we canintroduce really advanced
analytics within the supplychain, and then we are getting
(03:17):
in the area, or in the domain,of scenario planning,
multi-scenario planning so thinkabout a digital twin, for
example, if you have just the ITor the virtual representation
of the physical chain and thenbring AI into the game and come
up with all sorts ofrecommendation, also in terms of
financial aspects, by the way,when we talk, for example, if
(03:38):
supplier A is not able todeliver that or to bring that
from A to B in that timeframe,what kind of financial loss do I
have as a company?
What kind of maybe liabilitiesdo I have?
What kind of penalties do Ihave?
So these aspects, I think, arevery important and on the other
hand side, what we also saw fromour voice of the client
analysis this year quite clearlyis that double-sided coin.
(04:01):
On the one hand side, due tothat, in parts of the world
economical crisis, I would saywe need to be very cost
efficient.
So our manufacturers are verysensitive when it comes to cost.
They need to have their returnon investment in months Earlier
it was years for theirinvestments and on the other
hand side, they want todiversify into new markets with
(04:23):
new product lines.
So that means, of course, youneed to do some sort of
consolidation also in the chain,in the supply chain, in the
vendor chain.
So this is more the financialengineering part.
And then you need to have themoney for investment to go into
diversification, where you needthe strong chains to be able to
produce, to be able to sourcethe raw material and such.
(04:43):
So I would say it's the twosides of the coin.
Peter Warren (04:47):
Yeah, I agree with you, and Diane Gushu just
published an article that we'llbe putting out there about
digital triplets.
You talked about the digitaltwin.
For those that don't know whata triplet is, a digital twin is
modeling a process and you mighthave a series of those.
The triplet looks at a seriesof those as input to make a
third or fourth decision.
So if I'm looking at my supplychain, but I'm looking at also
(05:08):
my energy demands, I'm alsolooking at my HR factors.
I might have individual modelsof each of those.
The triplet is the third thingthat says what's the business
importance of me for this factor?
What is the outcome of all ofthose?
What should I consider doingnext based on all of this
disruption?
And we see a big play of that.
Charlie, you've got across-industry viewpoint of
everything that we do.
(05:29):
How do you see that comingtogether from not just a
manufacturing or my selfishneeds of energy and utilities?
How do you see that kickingacross all the industries you
look after?
Charley Wark (05:39):
Well, actually I saw one interesting report
coming out from the HarvardBusiness Review.
If we circle back to theimportance of the supply chain
Harvard Business Review inSeptember I think it was
identified the CEOs that theyhave interviewed identified the
supply chain resilience as a keyfactor to predict whether or
(06:01):
not a company was going to havegrowth over the next three years
.
So if you take what you justhave digital twins and digital
(06:28):
triplets Clearly that is a signof a company that will be set up
for a future growth.
So this is important today andit will become even more
important in the future.
Peter Warren (06:42):
So with that change, cooperation across
industry, I think, is becoming areality.
I know that for me to predictenergy demands, we've got some
emerging things where we haveconnections to key clients
saying, hey, you're going to runyour factory now and I might
have a surplus in the future.
You can run things then, but Ithink the tight-knitness of this
is going to have to accelerate.
(07:02):
What's your points of view ofthat?
Either one of you have an idea.
Helena Jochberger (07:07):
Yeah, let me bring into the discussion the
concept of the data spaces or ofthe collaborative ecosystems,
and I think we have seen nicelythat with ecosystems like, for
example, german-founded andfunded a Catena X solution, so
that goes under the EuropeanGaia X umbrella.
The need for data sovereigntyon the one hand side, so that
(07:28):
every participant can decidewhich data is going to be shared
.
The data security on the otherhand side, but the strong will
for partnerships or forcollaboration is key.
Katina X was, in so far, aninteresting example because this
has been founded in 2021, justin the middle or after the
pandemic.
(07:50):
First of all, large automotiveOEMs joined forces and said our
chains, our supply chains are soweak and we have one of the
most complex supply chains inthe world, so how could we do
better?
And so they formed, but notonly in the automotive space.
No, they took also techcorporations on board, like SAP,
(08:10):
like BASF, chemical companiesand others, and meanwhile this
whole concept spreads.
So the entire technological andplatform foundation has been
built.
Cgi has also been a partnerfrom the very beginning in
actually two use cases.
So the one is around thedigital data passport, so to
have a clear denomination wherea part comes from what kind of
(08:33):
CO2 footprint it had and such.
So that's more coming from thegovernmental need.
But there is the second use casewhich I found personally in our
discussion even moreinteresting, and that's called
the demand and capacitymanagement use case.
So how can we join forces, notonly the OEMs but also the tier
(08:53):
X suppliers in the chain toreally have a breathing supply
chain?
So, according to the demandthat comes in from the order
side, how can we ramp up, rampup and ramp down in times of
need?
And this is a little bit wherewe are still lacking, also in
the business model of production.
And we hope, of course, byonboarding more and more
suppliers.
And that whole thing isspreading right now via hubs in
(09:16):
France, via hubs in NorthAmerica, in China, in Japan, so
that we hope, with theonboarding of these suppliers,
that we get really traction intothat data ecosystem so that the
effective collaboration and thebenefits will show.
So this is just a littleexample, but I'm pretty sure,
peter, you have ones in yourindustry as well.
Peter Warren (09:37):
What I like about the Katina X example is they
didn't just look at theautomotive industry.
There's elements in there forthe energy market and so on.
And when you talk to ourcounterparts, our peers in both
the insurance industry and inthe financial industry, if we
had better connections to them,if I understood my risk profile
better, I might get better rates.
So can I share data that tellsmy insurer that I'm having lower
(10:00):
risk here, so charge me less?
But could I also share thatdata and say, hey, you've got a
risk there that you're notcovering and here's your
exposure from a businessstandpoint that I could offset
for you.
Similarly, if I had better datato the banking, could I give
you a better rate, because youreally are investing in the
types of things that I want toinvest in, and I'm seeing this.
Not just a yearly report.
You say that you did this, butnot just a yearly report.
(10:21):
You say that you did this, buthow could I do things in more
real time?
And I think, charlie, this iswhere you were going to.
It's into this ecosystem, thissupply web or supply ecosystem
of real-time data sharing,beyond what we're moving forward
, what we're currently doing.
Charley Wark (10:37):
Let's dream here, guys.
Imagine if we, as a citizen,would be able to see our own
personal data that existsanywhere in the public sector.
Imagine if we, instead ofhaving to go and ask questions
or be educated on if I'm allowedto apply for I don't know, a
(10:59):
student visa to a country or astudent loan if I'm a student, a
student visa to a country or astudent loan if I'm a student.
Imagine if all of those thingswould just happen automatically,
just with smart contractsthat's built into a supply chain
or a supply web of information,of my personal data.
I think that, my friends, wouldbe the end of bureaucracy in
(11:22):
this world.
So, if you want to dream big, Ithink that could be a vision
that we could also give ourlisteners today.
Peter Warren (11:31):
It's proactive, it's not reactive.
How do so and I like maybe thisis a good point for us to end
on and I'll give you both achance to sort of wrap this up
but this is moving beyond themundane, beyond the reactive,
beyond whatever, into aproactive environment which
requires the cooperation like aKatina X.
It requires the realizationthat I'm not in a bubble.
(11:53):
I am part of a larger story.
I'm part of the citizen supplychain and, like Charlie, your
point earlier, understanding myrole as an organization is a key
factor of this.
It's not just my selfish viewof what I want to do, it's how
I'm actually benefiting the restof the world With that.
Would either one of you like tostart with a summary and we'll
head towards the end of this?
Charley Wark (12:12):
Well, I think, peter, you already started.
My summary is like sorry tosteal it for a company to
understand their part in thecitizen supply chain I think
that will be crucial but also tobe able to leverage the
technology that already existsand have existed for a really,
really long time, where we havethe ability to leverage
(12:35):
technologies like AI, blockchain, smart contracts, all these
kind of things, to create abetter environment and a better
future for, you know, citizens,and also for the companies that
operate within our countries.
I think that is it's our dutyto come or show all the
(12:55):
opportunities and possibilitiesthat are out there.
Helena Jochberger (12:58):
And just to add what Charlie just said,
because I really like that theduty on the one hand side, but
it can give also purpose.
Yeah, if we know what crucialpart we play in the criticality
of a functioning society, thatcan can give you purpose.
And I would say we arechallenged with so many things
around in our industries and oursocieties, and believing in the
(13:20):
power of strategic partnerships, believing in collaboration and
interdisciplinary collaboration, this is something for me, or
my takeaway, where I want tobelieve in and that is the world
I'm working for.
Peter Warren (13:32):
That is a great summary from both of you.
I'd like to thank you, charlie,and thank you, helena, for
participating today, and thankyou for everyone that is
listening in on these things.
Feel free to contact us if youhave any thoughts or feedback on
this, and thank you for yourtime.
Bye-bye.
Helena Jochberger (13:46):
Thanks for listening, bye-bye.
Hello everyone, Welcome back to part two of our
series exploring how we arediscussing the citizen supply
chain.
In part one, we talked aboutwhat a citizen supply chain is
and we did our best to define it, because it's a very wide and
complicated component.
We finished part one withCharlie giving a great
definition of how this is movingin and impacting and how
companies are looking to adaptto this.
(00:25):
Helena, I promised we'd comeback to you in part two and pick
up with some client examples.
Are clients changing the waythey're looking at supply chain?
Is it something they care about?
Are they doing it every year?
What's happening?
Helena Jochberger (00:37):
Yeah, definitely, there's a lot going
on, and I would say let's pickone of our large clients,
michelin, as one of our oldestclients, and the way they looked
at their supply chain in thepast was in the average frame of
three to five years.
Meanwhile, and also after thepandemic, this has changed to a
really very short-termperception on looking at the
supply chain, namely in twomonths, so three, four months
(01:01):
and sometimes even down to weeks, and that means, of course,
when you want to look at yoursupply chain and even take
changes, so take your supplychain to a more agile point of
view so that you're able toswitch from supplier A to
supplier B that needs the datafor it.
So, of course, the endeavorsthat we have taken the last
(01:22):
years between 2010 and 2020,where we were talking about
Industry 4, the fourthindustrial revolution that
continues to take place, becausewhat has been there in these
first 10 years of digitaltransformation was that we had a
lot of proof of concepts.
Right, we had proof of conceptsin various parts of the value
(01:42):
chain, might it be in R&D or inthe production, or also in the
after sales.
But what is still missing hereis also what we call industry
five, or the next level ofindustrial revolution, namely
becoming fully data driven as anenterprise, throughout the
entire enterprise, and thatdemands, of course, a systems
integration from the variouscore systems.
(02:03):
You have to generate thatsystems interoperability and
that data continuity and that,by the way, is not only within
my own company the case, butwhen we're talking about
ecosystems, we need to extendthat data continuity throughout
the ecosystem, and I think in sofar, the supply chain is really
(02:24):
also pushing that next level oftransformation right now.
Peter Warren (02:28):
I know that we haven't mentioned the ever
popular word of AI, but we dosee that that demand for data.
People are applying that totheir ecosystems now their
supply chains, to determine whatmoving forward.
So I guess when Michelin waslooking at their supply chain
every couple of years, datawasn't a key factor.
So it must be exponentiallymore important to them.
Are they looking at using newtools, or are there ones of your
(02:51):
clients looking to use newtools for this type of function?
Helena Jochberger (02:54):
Definitely, I would say, first is and this is
what we see throughout theglobe currently the homework of
getting the data strategy andthe data management or data
governance in place.
I would say that is thefoundation.
Once this has been built, then,of course, we can climb the
knowledge ladder so that we canintroduce really advanced
analytics within the supplychain, and then we are getting
(03:17):
in the area, or in the domain,of scenario planning,
multi-scenario planning so thinkabout a digital twin, for
example, if you have just the ITor the virtual representation
of the physical chain and thenbring AI into the game and come
up with all sorts ofrecommendation, also in terms of
financial aspects, by the way,when we talk, for example, if
(03:38):
supplier A is not able todeliver that or to bring that
from A to B in that timeframe,what kind of financial loss do I
have as a company?
What kind of maybe liabilitiesdo I have?
What kind of penalties do Ihave?
So these aspects, I think, arevery important and on the other
hand side, what we also saw fromour voice of the client
analysis this year quite clearlyis that double-sided coin.
(04:01):
On the one hand side, due tothat, in parts of the world
economical crisis, I would saywe need to be very cost
efficient.
So our manufacturers are verysensitive when it comes to cost.
They need to have their returnon investment in months Earlier
it was years for theirinvestments and on the other
hand side, they want todiversify into new markets with
(04:23):
new product lines.
So that means, of course, youneed to do some sort of
consolidation also in the chain,in the supply chain, in the
vendor chain.
So this is more the financialengineering part.
And then you need to have themoney for investment to go into
diversification, where you needthe strong chains to be able to
produce, to be able to sourcethe raw material and such.
(04:43):
So I would say it's the twosides of the coin.
Peter Warren (04:47):
Yeah, I agree with you, and Diane Gushu just
published an article that we'llbe putting out there about
digital triplets.
You talked about the digitaltwin.
For those that don't know whata triplet is, a digital twin is
modeling a process and you mighthave a series of those.
The triplet looks at a seriesof those as input to make a
third or fourth decision.
So if I'm looking at my supplychain, but I'm looking at also
(05:08):
my energy demands, I'm alsolooking at my HR factors.
I might have individual modelsof each of those.
The triplet is the third thingthat says what's the business
importance of me for this factor?
What is the outcome of all ofthose?
What should I consider doingnext based on all of this
disruption?
And we see a big play of that.
Charlie, you've got across-industry viewpoint of
everything that we do.
(05:29):
How do you see that comingtogether from not just a
manufacturing or my selfishneeds of energy and utilities?
How do you see that kickingacross all the industries you
look after?
Charley Wark (05:39):
Well, actually I saw one interesting report
coming out from the HarvardBusiness Review.
If we circle back to theimportance of the supply chain
Harvard Business Review inSeptember I think it was
identified the CEOs that theyhave interviewed identified the
supply chain resilience as a keyfactor to predict whether or
(06:01):
not a company was going to havegrowth over the next three years
.
So if you take what you justhave digital twins and digital
(06:28):
triplets Clearly that is a signof a company that will be set up
for a future growth.
So this is important today andit will become even more
important in the future.
Peter Warren (06:42):
So with that change, cooperation across
industry, I think, is becoming areality.
I know that for me to predictenergy demands, we've got some
emerging things where we haveconnections to key clients
saying, hey, you're going to runyour factory now and I might
have a surplus in the future.
You can run things then, but Ithink the tight-knitness of this
is going to have to accelerate.
(07:02):
What's your points of view ofthat?
Either one of you have an idea.
Helena Jochberger (07:07):
Yeah, let me bring into the discussion the
concept of the data spaces or ofthe collaborative ecosystems,
and I think we have seen nicelythat with ecosystems like, for
example, german-founded andfunded a Catena X solution, so
that goes under the EuropeanGaia X umbrella.
The need for data sovereigntyon the one hand side, so that
(07:28):
every participant can decidewhich data is going to be shared
.
The data security on the otherhand side, but the strong will
for partnerships or forcollaboration is key.
Katina X was, in so far, aninteresting example because this
has been founded in 2021, justin the middle or after the
pandemic.
(07:50):
First of all, large automotiveOEMs joined forces and said our
chains, our supply chains are soweak and we have one of the
most complex supply chains inthe world, so how could we do
better?
And so they formed, but notonly in the automotive space.
No, they took also techcorporations on board, like SAP,
(08:10):
like BASF, chemical companiesand others, and meanwhile this
whole concept spreads.
So the entire technological andplatform foundation has been
built.
Cgi has also been a partnerfrom the very beginning in
actually two use cases.
So the one is around thedigital data passport, so to
have a clear denomination wherea part comes from what kind of
(08:33):
CO2 footprint it had and such.
So that's more coming from thegovernmental need.
But there is the second use casewhich I found personally in our
discussion even moreinteresting, and that's called
the demand and capacitymanagement use case.
So how can we join forces, notonly the OEMs but also the tier
(08:53):
X suppliers in the chain toreally have a breathing supply
chain?
So, according to the demandthat comes in from the order
side, how can we ramp up, rampup and ramp down in times of
need?
And this is a little bit wherewe are still lacking, also in
the business model of production.
And we hope, of course, byonboarding more and more
suppliers.
And that whole thing isspreading right now via hubs in
(09:16):
France, via hubs in NorthAmerica, in China, in Japan, so
that we hope, with theonboarding of these suppliers,
that we get really traction intothat data ecosystem so that the
effective collaboration and thebenefits will show.
So this is just a littleexample, but I'm pretty sure,
peter, you have ones in yourindustry as well.
Peter Warren (09:37):
What I like about the Katina X example is they
didn't just look at theautomotive industry.
There's elements in there forthe energy market and so on.
And when you talk to ourcounterparts, our peers in both
the insurance industry and inthe financial industry, if we
had better connections to them,if I understood my risk profile
better, I might get better rates.
So can I share data that tellsmy insurer that I'm having lower
(10:00):
risk here, so charge me less?
But could I also share thatdata and say, hey, you've got a
risk there that you're notcovering and here's your
exposure from a businessstandpoint that I could offset
for you.
Similarly, if I had better datato the banking, could I give
you a better rate, because youreally are investing in the
types of things that I want toinvest in, and I'm seeing this.
Not just a yearly report.
You say that you did this, butnot just a yearly report.
(10:21):
You say that you did this, buthow could I do things in more
real time?
And I think, charlie, this iswhere you were going to.
It's into this ecosystem, thissupply web or supply ecosystem
of real-time data sharing,beyond what we're moving forward
, what we're currently doing.
Charley Wark (10:37):
Let's dream here, guys.
Imagine if we, as a citizen,would be able to see our own
personal data that existsanywhere in the public sector.
Imagine if we, instead ofhaving to go and ask questions
or be educated on if I'm allowedto apply for I don't know, a
(10:59):
student visa to a country or astudent loan if I'm a student, a
student visa to a country or astudent loan if I'm a student.
Imagine if all of those thingswould just happen automatically,
just with smart contractsthat's built into a supply chain
or a supply web of information,of my personal data.
I think that, my friends, wouldbe the end of bureaucracy in
(11:22):
this world.
So, if you want to dream big, Ithink that could be a vision
that we could also give ourlisteners today.
Peter Warren (11:31):
It's proactive, it's not reactive.
How do so and I like maybe thisis a good point for us to end
on and I'll give you both achance to sort of wrap this up
but this is moving beyond themundane, beyond the reactive,
beyond whatever, into aproactive environment which
requires the cooperation like aKatina X.
It requires the realizationthat I'm not in a bubble.
(11:53):
I am part of a larger story.
I'm part of the citizen supplychain and, like Charlie, your
point earlier, understanding myrole as an organization is a key
factor of this.
It's not just my selfish viewof what I want to do, it's how
I'm actually benefiting the restof the world With that.
Would either one of you like tostart with a summary and we'll
head towards the end of this?
Charley Wark (12:12):
Well, I think, peter, you already started.
My summary is like sorry tosteal it for a company to
understand their part in thecitizen supply chain I think
that will be crucial but also tobe able to leverage the
technology that already existsand have existed for a really,
really long time, where we havethe ability to leverage
(12:35):
technologies like AI, blockchain, smart contracts, all these
kind of things, to create abetter environment and a better
future for, you know, citizens,and also for the companies that
operate within our countries.
I think that is it's our dutyto come or show all the
(12:55):
opportunities and possibilitiesthat are out there.
Helena Jochberger (12:58):
And just to add what Charlie just said,
because I really like that theduty on the one hand side, but
it can give also purpose.
Yeah, if we know what crucialpart we play in the criticality
of a functioning society, thatcan can give you purpose.
And I would say we arechallenged with so many things
around in our industries and oursocieties, and believing in the
(13:20):
power of strategic partnerships, believing in collaboration and
interdisciplinary collaboration, this is something for me, or
my takeaway, where I want tobelieve in and that is the world
I'm working for.
Peter Warren (13:32):
That is a great summary from both of you.
I'd like to thank you, charlie,and thank you, helena, for
participating today, and thankyou for everyone that is
listening in on these things.
Feel free to contact us if youhave any thoughts or feedback on
this, and thank you for yourtime.
Bye-bye.
Helena Jochberger (13:46):
Thanks for listening, bye-bye.
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