What if the leadership skills our world desperately needs aren't being taught in schools at all? Sophie Firmager, founder of the Realised Potential Group, reveals why the foundation of authentic leadership begins much earlier than most realise – often before the age of seven, when our core belief systems are formed.
Drawing from her extensive experience coaching CEOs and executives across global organisations, Sophie explains how the same principles that transform corporate leaders can revolutionise how we raise our children. The conversation challenges conventional wisdom about child development, highlighting how emotional intelligence, resilience, and self-awareness form the bedrock of future leadership capacity.
"The first seven years of our lives as children are spent as sponges," Sophie explains. "That's where most of our belief systems are formed, and not all of them are positive." These early beliefs become the unconscious drivers of our adult behaviour, affecting everything from how we handle mistakes to whether we speak up when something feels wrong.
What makes this conversation particularly valuable is that it bridges the gap between leadership development and parenting in practical, actionable ways. Sophie shares specific techniques parents can implement immediately, including creating psychologically safe spaces at home, modelling healthy boundaries, and engaging in regular "life balance" check-ins with children to help them develop clarity about their values and satisfaction.
Perhaps most compelling is Sophie's insight about what truly builds inner confidence in young people. Rather than external validation or achievement, she emphasises the importance of helping children "connect to who they are and develop an inner self-validation." This intrinsic motivation serves as the foundation for collaboration, healthy relationships, and navigating an increasingly complex world.
Ready to transform how you nurture the future leaders in your life? Listen now and discover the small but powerful actions you can take this week to start raising leaders from within. Connect directly with Sophie at sophie@realisedpotentialgroup.com to learn more about her groundbreaking programs for young people.
Thank you for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leon Goltsman (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to Engaging Conversations.
I'm your host, Leon Goltsman,and each week we speak with
people who are reshaping what'spossible for our families,
communities and future.
Today's episode is one Ibelieve every parent, teacher
and mentor needs to hear,because it's not just about
leadership and business.
(00:21):
It's about the kind ofleadership we model, teach and
nurture at home.
My special guest is SophieFirmager, founder of the
Realized Potential Group, aleadership coach who spent
decades helping people discoverwho they are and how they lead.
But in this conversation we lookat what happens when we start
(00:44):
that journey earlier with ourkids.
We talk about emotionalintelligence, resilience,
identity and the belief systemsthat shape us, often before the
age of seven, and why we can'tjust leave this important work
to the schools or systems thatweren't built to do it, to the
(01:04):
schools or systems that weren'tbuilt to do it.
This episode is made possiblethanks to the ongoing support of
Niaz Cannoth and the team atInvest Intelligence, proud
partners of this program and thechampions of purpose, progress
and future leadership.
Their belief in buildingstronger families and
communities aligns powerfullywith everything we're exploring
today.
If you've ever wondered how toraise confident, emotionally
(01:28):
aware kids who can thrive, notjust survive in an unpredictable
world.
This conversation will give youthe tools and inspiration to
start right where you are.
So, without further ado, let'sget into it.
Sophie Firmager (01:43):
My name is Sophie Firmager, and who I am as
a person is someone that is acurious seeker of truth and
knowledge, and I'm a wife, I'm amum and I'm a lover of all
things nature and wellbeing andhuman potential.
And that's a nice segue intowhat I do, which is that I am
(02:07):
the founder and CEO of RealizePotential Group, and I support
individuals and organizationswith reaching their potential
through coaching, training andleadership development programs.
Leon Goltsman (02:20):
And you've worked with many CEOs, creatives,
educators and everyday peopletrying to find more meaning in
what they do.
So, Sophie, why do you think somany people feel disconnected
from their own potential andwhat tends to awaken it again?
Sophie Firmager (02:39):
Yeah, that's a fantastic question, primarily
because they are lacking clarityinto what their inner strengths
are, their inner values are andtheir North Star.
Their purpose and the way toawaken it really is to create
space and the right coachingquestions to really help them
(03:02):
explore what is going on on theinside.
To really help them explorewhat is going on on the inside,
to tap into the insights thatyou have within, rather than
going outside and externallyseeking all of those things.
So in my coaching conversationswith whether it's leaders,
(03:26):
educators or parents orcreatives, it's often the
clarity begins with specificexercises that allow them to dig
deeper into their subconscious.
So a lot of the things that arewithin them, they're in there
because of conditioning from thepast and until we make the
(03:52):
subconscious or the unconsciousconscious, we will continue to
go through life with ourblindfold on and cord fate on
and called fate, and it seemslike from many leaders like
yourself and people who guideleaders, one of the common
denominators is that most peoplealready know the answers to
(04:14):
whatever it is, but they justsometimes need someone to awaken
them.
Leon Goltsman (04:22):
Do you consider yourself to?
Sophie Firmager (04:22):
be one of those people, absolutely yeah, I do
consider myself to be someonethat helps people awaken to
their inner beauty, their innerpotential and the gifts that
have within.
So let me give you an example.
I had a CEO come to mecompletely feeling disconnected
to their purpose, feelingdiscontented and also just felt
(04:45):
like a bit of a hamster in awheel, and what we did through
our sessions was to get to theroot cause of this discontent
and the real reason for why hewas feeling the way he was was
because he was rerunning oldvalues.
So he has changed, his identityhas had changed over the years,
(05:08):
but yet he had stayed in thesame profession, in the same
organization and doing the samethings, and that was bringing
awareness to that was thecatalyst for the change.
Leon Goltsman (05:22):
And it often starts off with just something
like that that just awakens itwithin.
Sophie Firmager (05:26):
Yes, exactly.
Leon Goltsman (05:28):
And so what I'm hearing and understanding is
that real leadership begins withknowing yourself not just your
strengths, but your stories,values and blind spots.
What does self-leadership meanto you, and why is it the
foundation for every other kindof leadership?
Sophie Firmager (05:43):
Yeah, self-leadership means to me
knowing yourself, living yourtruth, essentially.
So, once you understand who itis that you are behaving in a
way that aligns with that, andthe sooner that you understand
your values, your strengths,your purpose, you are able to
(06:05):
live in alignment with that,intentionally.
Otherwise, it's again hamsterin a wheel.
So, as an example, I haveworked with a number of leaders
that were emulating theleadership style of their
leaders, because they thoughtthat was what leadership was all
about.
What that did was it completelydisconnected them from the
(06:27):
people in their team, theirstakeholders, because they
weren't living their truth.
Leon Goltsman (06:32):
And they weren't authentic.
Sophie Firmager (06:33):
They weren't authentic and people can see
that.
Exactly, and it affects thetrust.
And when you are leading from,I guess, a story that you tell
yourself of what leadershipshould be like, you affect the
trust that you have with thepeople in your team.
Leon Goltsman (06:52):
And that is what personal growth and professional
growth have in common.
Sophie Firmager (06:56):
Yeah, exactly Exactly right.
Personal growth leads toprofessional growth.
Leon Goltsman (07:02):
It's interesting because we know so many people
and one of the things is thatthey tend to spend decades
trying to find purpose, oftenfeeling stuck in roles, routines
or even expectations that nolonger serve them or other
people.
Now, in your work, what helpedpeople reconnect with their
purpose?
And, sophie, how do you knowwhen they found it?
Sophie Firmager (07:23):
And Sophie, how do you know when they're
founded?
So people do spend decadestrying to find their purpose.
There are many techniques andexercises that help people
identify their purpose.
I always like to start withvalues, which is what is
important to you and what isimportant to you right now, if
we're talking about career whatis important to you about your
(07:44):
career?
And then we segue intostrengths, and to identify
strengths is basically askingthem what is it that they're
doing when they feel in flow?
It goes through coachingquestions, but I also have the
strength profile tool that helpsthem indirectly find their
strengths.
And then, once we identifytheir values so what's important
(08:08):
to them?
And then what is it that theydo well and their gifts we then
move to okay.
So what actually fulfills youand what does it look like when
you are using your gifts andwhat's important to you to give
to others to make the world abetter place?
So purpose is something that isbigger than you.
(08:30):
It's something that is not just, it's not about you.
It's about how you're giving toothers.
Leon Goltsman (08:36):
But it's interesting that when you give
to others it's unconditionalreally, but when you do good for
others, you often find that itcomes back to you tenfold 100%.
And when you don't expect it.
That's when the magic reallydoes happen, doesn't it?
Sophie Firmager (08:51):
It really does, and it comes from psychology
research.
So there's someone that Ialways reference in all of my
trainings Martin Seligman.
He's the founder of PositivePsychology and he founded the
model for flourishing, and it'sthe acronym PERMA.
So P stands for positiveemotions, e for engagement, r
(09:13):
for relationships, m for meaningand A for accomplishment.
But how many of us only focuson the A, especially in our
careers?
We think that we are performingbeings, we think it's all about
accomplishment and we stopfocusing on the first four key
pillars of well-being andflourishing.
And so meaning is one of those,and meaning, as you say, is
(09:38):
actually self-fulfilling onceit's achieved.
So when you are contributing topurposes, to causes that are
bigger than you, you areactually feeling better about it
.
Leon Goltsman (09:50):
Well, there's also research that supports that
people who share and give tothe community or to others,
they're healthier, they livelonger that's right and most of
all, they're happier.
They'll live more meaningful,purposeful lives.
Sophie Firmager (10:04):
Exactly, and there's a study by Harvard.
It's an 85-year-old study thattracked the same sort of people
throughout their lives todetermine what truly drives
happiness, and what they foundwas relationships.
Leon Goltsman (10:20):
Some people think it's scrolling.
Sophie Firmager (10:22):
Yes, they do.
Leon Goltsman (10:23):
Scrolling the social media, but really that's
only a short-term dopamine boost.
Isn think it's scrolling?
Yes, they do Scrolling thesocial media, but really that's
only a short term dopamine boost, isn't it?
Sophie Firmager (10:29):
Exactly, and long term?
Leon Goltsman (10:30):
I mean, we can have a whole discussion on
dopamine and all the otherchemicals that are released from
the technology, but don't youthink that, because of the day
and age that we're living inright now, maybe that's the
reason why people aren'tfocusing on the other, more
essential things, because tosome degree you've got to work
at it, whereas this is instantgratification?
Sophie Firmager (10:51):
Exactly, and we are all so dopamine poor these
days because life has moved somuch quicker and we have access
to more information than we'veever had before and, as a result
, we have this instantgratification thing going on and
that depletes dopamine soquickly, and so we choose the
(11:13):
scrolling and we choose to checkgoals off the list, purely
because we are hungry for thatdopamine hit, and that's
probably why we're experiencingthese short spikes that, like
anything, is a drug, yeah, andwe get a spike then to the
bottom again.
Yes, and that's not fun.
Leon Goltsman (11:32):
And that's not fun so we're back to scrolling.
Back to scrolling, buthopefully we're not doing any
scrolling now, because what I'mgetting from you is having the
right system in place means thatwe can find ways to work across
both corporate and personalspaces, and that's something
that you've done and that givesyou a unique lens of how human
(11:53):
development plays out indifferent stages of life.
Sophie Firmager (11:56):
Yeah.
Leon Goltsman (11:57):
What have you noticed about the beliefs we
form in childhood and how theyshape the leaders we become as
adults?
Sophie Firmager (12:03):
The first seven years of our lives as children
are spent as sponges.
We are truly just taking in theworld through our five senses
and then, as soon as we kind ofmove into the reflective and the
analytical stage of life, westart to make meaning out of
everything.
But that first seven years iswhere most of our belief systems
(12:26):
are formed, and not all of themare positive belief systems.
Some of them are self-limitingand unfortunately those are the
things that drive behavior.
And so if you are someone thatlearned that in order to live a
truly flourishing life you needto perform or you need to be
perfect, you are going to gothrough into any profession
(12:50):
thinking that unless things areperfect, I can't take the first
step, and that keeps youprocrastinating, it keeps you
from taking action and it keepsyou from achieving your goals,
whether personal or professional.
So belief systems play such ahuge role in the people that we
become later in life, and as acoach, I have a lot of tools
(13:14):
that allow me to connect to someof those belief systems that
people have developed aschildren and clear or reframe
them so that they can be free toactually make choices about who
they want to be and how theywant to behave going forward.
Leon Goltsman (13:31):
So what I'm getting from you just now is
that how important it is ofcatching leadership early.
What would it look like if westarted raising children as
future leaders, not just intitle, but in mindset and
behaviour?
Sophie Firmager (13:43):
So the thing that helps children or parents
with developing some of thoseleadership skills early on like
the clarity, like the confidenceand the emotional literacy is
helping children realise they'rea driver in their life.
As an HR director in my previouslife, I was responsible for
(14:06):
hiring people from entry levelthrough to director executive
leaders, and one of the mostimportant skills that I looked
for was empathy, was emotionalliteracy, was the ability to
regulate yourself emotionally,particularly during stressful
times, particularly throughchange.
(14:27):
Knowing that the world and theenvironment is a VUCA
environment where there'svolatility, there's uncertainty,
complexity and ambiguity.
People that understand how toregulate their emotions and
their behaviours in that sort ofenvironment are the leaders of
tomorrow.
They're the ones that make surethat the organizations flourish
(14:50):
, and when you are able toregulate your emotions, you are
able to make discerningdecisions.
When you are faced withcomplexity and ambiguity,
particularly with the advent ofAI, it's super important to be
discerning and use your criticalreasoning.
Now, a lot of these skills arenot taught at schools and it is
(15:14):
up to the parents to reallyensure that they're fostering
those kind of skills, but mostparents don't have the time,
they don't have the skills andit really rests on the child to
weave through challenges,through life, in order to learn
those skills.
Leon Goltsman (15:32):
Well, sophie, you mentioned AI.
Interesting enough, ai isn'treally AI at all.
What I mean by that is that itencourages people, even the most
professional people, tooutsource their thinking to a
piece of code.
Ultimately, that's what they'redoing.
And the problem with that andI've tested it, by the way, I am
(15:53):
a pragmatist, so I will alwaysquestion whatever it is.
Even if I know something to betrue, I'll question it.
And then, even then, I kind ofthink well, hang on, is it
really true?
But that's a good thing,because I've noticed with AI, is
you ask it a question, itagrees with you.
And when I say, and I sayyou're wrong, this can't be it,
it goes you're right, it's not.
(16:13):
And then I'll scrutinize itagain.
And this is the problem At theend of the day, I find that when
you understand how you get tosomething, that's where the
education, that's where thelearning occurs.
Sophie Firmager (16:26):
Yes, absolutely .
Leon Goltsman (16:27):
Whereas if you just ask a question and it gives
you an answer, you kind of runwith that and you think it's
right.
And to me, time has proven thatpeople who are not entirely
correct but believe they are,they're the most dangerous
people to lead.
And unfortunately, if theseleaders present and future
leaders are relying ontechnology to tell them how to
(16:49):
run things, then we reallythere's never been a more
important time than to createfuture leaders than right now.
Sophie Firmager (16:57):
Yeah, absolutely, because you do have
to connect to your inner wisdom.
The thing is, inner wisdomoccurs when you are struggling
and when you are grappling withchallenges that you must lean
(17:17):
into and you can't be rescuedfrom.
So, as children of today aregrowing up, we have a lot of
helicopter parents who arecoming in and rescuing them and
they're not really learning fromthose challenging experiences,
and so that belief system formsthat, oh, someone will always
fix things for me, or I'llalways be able to get things
(17:38):
from an external source, andthey stop to rely on the inner
wisdom and they don't build thatinner wisdom.
And so there is a huge elementof allowing children to fall,
fall over, make mistakes and beokay with failure, because that
leads to the wisdom.
Leon Goltsman (17:58):
Yeah.
So parents often ask how do Iraise confident children in a
world full of comparison andnoise?
I mean, people are alwayscompeting on social media,
neighbours children are reallyfinding, and not just children.
But we could see from theamount of mental health and the
suicides in young children a lotof that.
(18:19):
People don't even realisewhat's going on until,
unfortunately, it's too late.
So, from your experience, whatreally builds inner confidence
in young people and how canparents or educators support
that process?
Sophie Firmager (18:32):
the first step is helping them connect to who
they are and developing an innerself-validation or intrinsic
motivation around things.
Because when you realize who itis that you are and you are
proud of who it is that you are,you are less inclined to
compare yourself to othersbecause you've got a self-love
(18:54):
within.
And the other thing that reallyis crucial to teach kids early
on is collaboration is whatmakes the world go round,
whether it's you when you growup to be an adult, in your
family unit or in the community,or whether it's in the
workplace.
Collaboration is the only waythings get done and how we build
(19:19):
collaboration is through theschooling and how parents are
raising them in their homes.
Leon Goltsman (19:27):
But also I've found that having healthy
boundaries is also a key thing.
Well, it is for adults, but ifchildren don't develop that
early, how are they going tohave this skill when they get
older?
Sophie Firmager (19:40):
Yeah, yeah.
So healthy boundaries are ofparamount importance.
I personally the way that Iteach my son healthy boundaries
are of paramount importance.
I personally the way that Iteach my son healthy boundaries
is by being the living exampleof what you know really leads to
a flourishing life.
So I have daily exercise.
(20:01):
I do daily exercise.
I eat nutritious food.
Yes, I have days where I havecheap meals, but for the most
part I eat really well.
I make sure that I consume theright content throughout the day
.
So whether it's through TV, themovies that we watch, social
media, so all of that, you needto create boundaries for the
(20:23):
kind of content that you'reconsuming.
So if he's watching me as thatsort of living example that is
setting those healthy boundariesand is feeling good in life,
then he's going to be moreinclined to adopt those
practices.
Leon Goltsman (20:40):
So you're being a great role model and, I suppose
, a mentor and a friend.
Sophie Firmager (20:44):
Yeah, exactly.
Leon Goltsman (20:46):
So you've seen the impact of safe spaces in
your work, places where peopleare encouraged to speak up and
reflect and grow.
So how can we create similarspaces for children, one that
supports emotional intelligence,values, discovery and
leadership from within?
Sophie Firmager (21:02):
Psychological safety is such a buzzword, but a
lot of times it's used inorganizational settings.
It's supposed to mean that ifyou have a psychologically safe
environment, that you havepeople that are more willing to
take risks, to make mistakes, touse their voice, to speak up
when things are not going right.
(21:22):
But a lot of people outsourcepsychological safety to the
organization or leaders right so, to the CEO, to the HR leader.
They don't realize the partthat they are playing in
creating psychologically safespace, and the thing that
children need to do is torealize that they need to take
(21:45):
ownership for how it is thatthey show up.
So, for example, if you areafraid to admit a mistake, use
it as data, use it as whenyou're reflecting, or create
space for reflection and askyourself the question why is it
that I'm afraid to make amistake, or why is it that I'm
afraid to speak up when I noticesomething that is not right and
(22:11):
I want to use my voice to speakup against it?
As soon as you start askingthose reflective questions, you
are able to get back to yourvalues so what's important to
you?
And then you make values-baseddecisions around.
Okay, next time I make amistake.
I value growth.
So I'm going to own up to thatmistake and I'm going to see
(22:32):
feedback as the key toup-leveling.
So there's no failure, there'sonly feedback.
And that belief system helpsyou continue to value making
mistakes, so that becomes acontinued evolution process it
seems like there is no suchthing as a mistake, little
milestones and you're breakingit down in little, little
(22:54):
successes the way I see exactly.
Leon Goltsman (22:57):
I know a lot of people talk about mistakes and
and problems and issues.
That only becomes that if it'snot managed properly.
Sophie Firmager (23:05):
So I've spent decades working with CEOs and
senior leaders within top 100organizations across the world,
and whether it's to support themwith driving organizations that
flourish, or whether it'ssupporting them on their
individual journeys and what weare doing now is we've created
(23:27):
this incredible program.
So, using the same sort oftechniques that I have used for
these senior leaders, we havetailor-made program for young
children, helping them becomefuture leaders.
This program includes workshops, reflective journaling, small
group sessions to really helpwith the skills individually
(23:50):
tailored to build the capabilityof a future leader.
Leon Goltsman (23:54):
So, sophie, I've seen the glimpse of this program
, and it's not just one program,there's several there that are
tailored, as you said, toindividual needs of future
leaders.
Not only does it give some kindof hope to those people who
might be experiencing somechallenges, some kind of hope to
those people who might beexperiencing some challenges
early on in life, that I couldsee this being so beneficial to
(24:19):
the parents and to the peoplewho put a lot of faith and love
and trust in these people.
I wish I could say the systemis always going to look after
them.
Unfortunately, we've seen thatit doesn't always look after the
best interest of people, and soit really is up to the
individual parents and guardianswho look after the future
generation and the futureleaders of today.
You're certainly making thatpossible.
(24:41):
So, sophie, if someonelistening is thinking I want
this for my kids, but I justdon't know where to begin.
What's the one small butpowerful action they can take
this week to start raisingleaders in their own home?
Sophie Firmager (24:54):
So one of the most powerful actions that a
parent can take this week is tosit down with their child and
have a conversation to get onthe same page, one where you're
actively listening to what it isthat is going on for them.
You're actively listening towhat it is that is going on for
them, listening without judgment, listening without interjecting
(25:18):
, and wait to see what you learn, because you could discover the
very thing that will bring tolight how you can support them
in their future.
Leon Goltsman (25:24):
Or ways that you can help them support themselves
.
Sophie Firmager (25:27):
Yeah, exactly right, exactly right.
One of the things that I dowith my own child every three
months to get him clear onwhat's important to him and how
satisfied he is in differentparts of his life is a life
balance activity, and that helpshim get clear on what it is
that he needs to move forward inthat term.
Leon Goltsman (25:49):
Is there a particular age group it works
for, or is it something thatworks for everybody?
Sophie Firmager (25:55):
Oh, it works for everyone.
It works for adults too.
Leon Goltsman (25:58):
So, look, I've seen this tool.
It's a very effective tool andI can see why it's so successful
.
For anyone that wants tocontact you and get some more
information, what is the bestway they can reach out to you?
Sophie Firmager (26:10):
They can send me an email, sophie, at
realisedpotentialgroupcom.
Leon Goltsman (26:14):
Okay, so I will put that in the show notes.
There'll be that and otherlinks perhaps.
But, sophie, you certainly havethe tools, you have the
know-how, you have theexperience to not just make it
easier for people seeking tomake it to the next level,
whether it's their personal orprofessional life, but you've
also got the ability and yourupcoming programs, which I
(26:36):
really can't wait to share withthe audience.
I think that's going to be areal big game changer,
especially in a day and agewhere there are a lot of
unpredictabilities and we dorely on a system that often can
let us down.
Unfortunately, we don't live ina perfect world and so many
people outsource their faith andtrust in so many other people
(27:00):
and other organisations.
But I think, as you've saidearlier and you've hit the nail
on the head, is you've got tolook for the solution, for the
answers, from within.
Sophie Firmager (27:09):
Absolutely.
Leon Goltsman (27:10):
So thank you very much for joining us and looking
forward to doing great thingstogether.
Sophie Firmager (27:16):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much, Leon.
It's such a pleasure to be herewith you.
Leon Goltsman (27:21):
And what a powerful conversation that was
with Sophie Firmager a reminderthat leadership doesn't start
with a title.
It starts at home, in the waywe guide, listen and lead by
example.
We spoke about the real gaps inour system, the things schools
don't teach, the emotionalchallenges our kids face and the
(27:42):
importance of helping thembuild inner strength and not
just academic results.
And not just academic results.
Sophie's work through theRealize Potential Group gives
parents, carers and educatorsthe tools to raise confident,
emotionally intelligent futureleaders, starting now.
If you'd like to connect withSophie, reach out directly at
(28:04):
sophieatrealizepotentialgroupcom.
I'm sure she would love to hearfrom you and I want to hear
from you too.
What did this episode spark foryou?
What are you doing today thatyour future child, student or
community will thank you for?
Email me anytime atleongoltzman at ecohqcomau,
(28:29):
because this podcast isn't justabout the voices we feature.
It's about the community we'rebuilding together.
If this conversation resonated,do three quick things.
Follow the show on yourfavorite platform and, yes,
we're available on all majorones.
Share this episode with someonewho cares about raising the
(28:50):
next generation.
Share this episode with someonewho cares about raising the
next generation and leave aquick review to help others find
and join the conversation.
Once again, a special thanks toNiaz Kanath and the team at
Invest Intelligence, proudlong-time supporters of this
program and believers inpurpose-driven progress.
I'm Leon Goltsman, and untilnext time, let's keep showing up
(29:11):
, let's keep leading and let'skeep building the type of future
that we can all be proud oftogether.
Hello and welcome back to Engaging Conversations.
I'm your host, Leon Goltsman,and each week we speak with
people who are reshaping what'spossible for our families,
communities and future.
Today's episode is one Ibelieve every parent, teacher
and mentor needs to hear,because it's not just about
leadership and business.
(00:21):
It's about the kind ofleadership we model, teach and
nurture at home.
My special guest is SophieFirmager, founder of the
Realized Potential Group, aleadership coach who spent
decades helping people discoverwho they are and how they lead.
But in this conversation we lookat what happens when we start
(00:44):
that journey earlier with ourkids.
We talk about emotionalintelligence, resilience,
identity and the belief systemsthat shape us, often before the
age of seven, and why we can'tjust leave this important work
to the schools or systems thatweren't built to do it, to the
(01:04):
schools or systems that weren'tbuilt to do it.
This episode is made possiblethanks to the ongoing support of
Niaz Cannoth and the team atInvest Intelligence, proud
partners of this program and thechampions of purpose, progress
and future leadership.
Their belief in buildingstronger families and
communities aligns powerfullywith everything we're exploring
today.
If you've ever wondered how toraise confident, emotionally
(01:28):
aware kids who can thrive, notjust survive in an unpredictable
world.
This conversation will give youthe tools and inspiration to
start right where you are.
So, without further ado, let'sget into it.
Sophie Firmager (01:43):
My name is Sophie Firmager, and who I am as
a person is someone that is acurious seeker of truth and
knowledge, and I'm a wife, I'm amum and I'm a lover of all
things nature and wellbeing andhuman potential.
And that's a nice segue intowhat I do, which is that I am
(02:07):
the founder and CEO of RealizePotential Group, and I support
individuals and organizationswith reaching their potential
through coaching, training andleadership development programs.
Leon Goltsman (02:20):
And you've worked with many CEOs, creatives,
educators and everyday peopletrying to find more meaning in
what they do.
So, Sophie, why do you think somany people feel disconnected
from their own potential andwhat tends to awaken it again?
Sophie Firmager (02:39):
Yeah, that's a fantastic question, primarily
because they are lacking clarityinto what their inner strengths
are, their inner values are andtheir North Star.
Their purpose and the way toawaken it really is to create
space and the right coachingquestions to really help them
(03:02):
explore what is going on on theinside.
To really help them explorewhat is going on on the inside,
to tap into the insights thatyou have within, rather than
going outside and externallyseeking all of those things.
So in my coaching conversationswith whether it's leaders,
(03:26):
educators or parents orcreatives, it's often the
clarity begins with specificexercises that allow them to dig
deeper into their subconscious.
So a lot of the things that arewithin them, they're in there
because of conditioning from thepast and until we make the
(03:52):
subconscious or the unconsciousconscious, we will continue to
go through life with ourblindfold on and cord fate on
and called fate, and it seemslike from many leaders like
yourself and people who guideleaders, one of the common
denominators is that most peoplealready know the answers to
(04:14):
whatever it is, but they justsometimes need someone to awaken
them.
Leon Goltsman (04:22):
Do you consider yourself to?
Sophie Firmager (04:22):
be one of those people, absolutely yeah, I do
consider myself to be someonethat helps people awaken to
their inner beauty, their innerpotential and the gifts that
have within.
So let me give you an example.
I had a CEO come to mecompletely feeling disconnected
to their purpose, feelingdiscontented and also just felt
(04:45):
like a bit of a hamster in awheel, and what we did through
our sessions was to get to theroot cause of this discontent
and the real reason for why hewas feeling the way he was was
because he was rerunning oldvalues.
So he has changed, his identityhas had changed over the years,
(05:08):
but yet he had stayed in thesame profession, in the same
organization and doing the samethings, and that was bringing
awareness to that was thecatalyst for the change.
Leon Goltsman (05:22):
And it often starts off with just something
like that that just awakens itwithin.
Sophie Firmager (05:26):
Yes, exactly.
Leon Goltsman (05:28):
And so what I'm hearing and understanding is
that real leadership begins withknowing yourself not just your
strengths, but your stories,values and blind spots.
What does self-leadership meanto you, and why is it the
foundation for every other kindof leadership?
Sophie Firmager (05:43):
Yeah, self-leadership means to me
knowing yourself, living yourtruth, essentially.
So, once you understand who itis that you are behaving in a
way that aligns with that, andthe sooner that you understand
your values, your strengths,your purpose, you are able to
(06:05):
live in alignment with that,intentionally.
Otherwise, it's again hamsterin a wheel.
So, as an example, I haveworked with a number of leaders
that were emulating theleadership style of their
leaders, because they thoughtthat was what leadership was all
about.
What that did was it completelydisconnected them from the
(06:27):
people in their team, theirstakeholders, because they
weren't living their truth.
Leon Goltsman (06:32):
And they weren't authentic.
Sophie Firmager (06:33):
They weren't authentic and people can see
that.
Exactly, and it affects thetrust.
And when you are leading from,I guess, a story that you tell
yourself of what leadershipshould be like, you affect the
trust that you have with thepeople in your team.
Leon Goltsman (06:52):
And that is what personal growth and professional
growth have in common.
Sophie Firmager (06:56):
Yeah, exactly Exactly right.
Personal growth leads toprofessional growth.
Leon Goltsman (07:02):
It's interesting because we know so many people
and one of the things is thatthey tend to spend decades
trying to find purpose, oftenfeeling stuck in roles, routines
or even expectations that nolonger serve them or other
people.
Now, in your work, what helpedpeople reconnect with their
purpose?
And, sophie, how do you knowwhen they found it?
Sophie Firmager (07:23):
And Sophie, how do you know when they're
founded?
So people do spend decadestrying to find their purpose.
There are many techniques andexercises that help people
identify their purpose.
I always like to start withvalues, which is what is
important to you and what isimportant to you right now, if
we're talking about career whatis important to you about your
(07:44):
career?
And then we segue intostrengths, and to identify
strengths is basically askingthem what is it that they're
doing when they feel in flow?
It goes through coachingquestions, but I also have the
strength profile tool that helpsthem indirectly find their
strengths.
And then, once we identifytheir values so what's important
(08:08):
to them?
And then what is it that theydo well and their gifts we then
move to okay.
So what actually fulfills youand what does it look like when
you are using your gifts andwhat's important to you to give
to others to make the world abetter place?
So purpose is something that isbigger than you.
(08:30):
It's something that is not just, it's not about you.
It's about how you're giving toothers.
Leon Goltsman (08:36):
But it's interesting that when you give
to others it's unconditionalreally, but when you do good for
others, you often find that itcomes back to you tenfold 100%.
And when you don't expect it.
That's when the magic reallydoes happen, doesn't it?
Sophie Firmager (08:51):
It really does, and it comes from psychology
research.
So there's someone that Ialways reference in all of my
trainings Martin Seligman.
He's the founder of PositivePsychology and he founded the
model for flourishing, and it'sthe acronym PERMA.
So P stands for positiveemotions, e for engagement, r
(09:13):
for relationships, m for meaningand A for accomplishment.
But how many of us only focuson the A, especially in our
careers?
We think that we are performingbeings, we think it's all about
accomplishment and we stopfocusing on the first four key
pillars of well-being andflourishing.
And so meaning is one of those,and meaning, as you say, is
(09:38):
actually self-fulfilling onceit's achieved.
So when you are contributing topurposes, to causes that are
bigger than you, you areactually feeling better about it
.
Leon Goltsman (09:50):
Well, there's also research that supports that
people who share and give tothe community or to others,
they're healthier, they livelonger that's right and most of
all, they're happier.
They'll live more meaningful,purposeful lives.
Sophie Firmager (10:04):
Exactly, and there's a study by Harvard.
It's an 85-year-old study thattracked the same sort of people
throughout their lives todetermine what truly drives
happiness, and what they foundwas relationships.
Leon Goltsman (10:20):
Some people think it's scrolling.
Sophie Firmager (10:22):
Yes, they do.
Leon Goltsman (10:23):
Scrolling the social media, but really that's
only a short-term dopamine boost.
Isn think it's scrolling?
Yes, they do Scrolling thesocial media, but really that's
only a short term dopamine boost, isn't it?
Sophie Firmager (10:29):
Exactly, and long term?
Leon Goltsman (10:30):
I mean, we can have a whole discussion on
dopamine and all the otherchemicals that are released from
the technology, but don't youthink that, because of the day
and age that we're living inright now, maybe that's the
reason why people aren'tfocusing on the other, more
essential things, because tosome degree you've got to work
at it, whereas this is instantgratification?
Sophie Firmager (10:51):
Exactly, and we are all so dopamine poor these
days because life has moved somuch quicker and we have access
to more information than we'veever had before and, as a result
, we have this instantgratification thing going on and
that depletes dopamine soquickly, and so we choose the
(11:13):
scrolling and we choose to checkgoals off the list, purely
because we are hungry for thatdopamine hit, and that's
probably why we're experiencingthese short spikes that, like
anything, is a drug, yeah, andwe get a spike then to the
bottom again.
Yes, and that's not fun.
Leon Goltsman (11:32):
And that's not fun so we're back to scrolling.
Back to scrolling, buthopefully we're not doing any
scrolling now, because what I'mgetting from you is having the
right system in place means thatwe can find ways to work across
both corporate and personalspaces, and that's something
that you've done and that givesyou a unique lens of how human
(11:53):
development plays out indifferent stages of life.
Sophie Firmager (11:56):
Yeah.
Leon Goltsman (11:57):
What have you noticed about the beliefs we
form in childhood and how theyshape the leaders we become as
adults?
Sophie Firmager (12:03):
The first seven years of our lives as children
are spent as sponges.
We are truly just taking in theworld through our five senses
and then, as soon as we kind ofmove into the reflective and the
analytical stage of life, westart to make meaning out of
everything.
But that first seven years iswhere most of our belief systems
(12:26):
are formed, and not all of themare positive belief systems.
Some of them are self-limitingand unfortunately those are the
things that drive behavior.
And so if you are someone thatlearned that in order to live a
truly flourishing life you needto perform or you need to be
perfect, you are going to gothrough into any profession
(12:50):
thinking that unless things areperfect, I can't take the first
step, and that keeps youprocrastinating, it keeps you
from taking action and it keepsyou from achieving your goals,
whether personal or professional.
So belief systems play such ahuge role in the people that we
become later in life, and as acoach, I have a lot of tools
(13:14):
that allow me to connect to someof those belief systems that
people have developed aschildren and clear or reframe
them so that they can be free toactually make choices about who
they want to be and how theywant to behave going forward.
Leon Goltsman (13:31):
So what I'm getting from you just now is
that how important it is ofcatching leadership early.
What would it look like if westarted raising children as
future leaders, not just intitle, but in mindset and
behaviour?
Sophie Firmager (13:43):
So the thing that helps children or parents
with developing some of thoseleadership skills early on like
the clarity, like the confidenceand the emotional literacy is
helping children realise they'rea driver in their life.
As an HR director in my previouslife, I was responsible for
(14:06):
hiring people from entry levelthrough to director executive
leaders, and one of the mostimportant skills that I looked
for was empathy, was emotionalliteracy, was the ability to
regulate yourself emotionally,particularly during stressful
times, particularly throughchange.
(14:27):
Knowing that the world and theenvironment is a VUCA
environment where there'svolatility, there's uncertainty,
complexity and ambiguity.
People that understand how toregulate their emotions and
their behaviours in that sort ofenvironment are the leaders of
tomorrow.
They're the ones that make surethat the organizations flourish
(14:50):
, and when you are able toregulate your emotions, you are
able to make discerningdecisions.
When you are faced withcomplexity and ambiguity,
particularly with the advent ofAI, it's super important to be
discerning and use your criticalreasoning.
Now, a lot of these skills arenot taught at schools and it is
(15:14):
up to the parents to reallyensure that they're fostering
those kind of skills, but mostparents don't have the time,
they don't have the skills andit really rests on the child to
weave through challenges,through life, in order to learn
those skills.
Leon Goltsman (15:32):
Well, sophie, you mentioned AI.
Interesting enough, ai isn'treally AI at all.
What I mean by that is that itencourages people, even the most
professional people, tooutsource their thinking to a
piece of code.
Ultimately, that's what they'redoing.
And the problem with that andI've tested it, by the way, I am
(15:53):
a pragmatist, so I will alwaysquestion whatever it is.
Even if I know something to betrue, I'll question it.
And then, even then, I kind ofthink well, hang on, is it
really true?
But that's a good thing,because I've noticed with AI, is
you ask it a question, itagrees with you.
And when I say, and I sayyou're wrong, this can't be it,
it goes you're right, it's not.
(16:13):
And then I'll scrutinize itagain.
And this is the problem At theend of the day, I find that when
you understand how you get tosomething, that's where the
education, that's where thelearning occurs.
Sophie Firmager (16:26):
Yes, absolutely .
Leon Goltsman (16:27):
Whereas if you just ask a question and it gives
you an answer, you kind of runwith that and you think it's
right.
And to me, time has proven thatpeople who are not entirely
correct but believe they are,they're the most dangerous
people to lead.
And unfortunately, if theseleaders present and future
leaders are relying ontechnology to tell them how to
(16:49):
run things, then we reallythere's never been a more
important time than to createfuture leaders than right now.
Sophie Firmager (16:57):
Yeah, absolutely, because you do have
to connect to your inner wisdom.
The thing is, inner wisdomoccurs when you are struggling
and when you are grappling withchallenges that you must lean
(17:17):
into and you can't be rescuedfrom.
So, as children of today aregrowing up, we have a lot of
helicopter parents who arecoming in and rescuing them and
they're not really learning fromthose challenging experiences,
and so that belief system formsthat, oh, someone will always
fix things for me, or I'llalways be able to get things
(17:38):
from an external source, andthey stop to rely on the inner
wisdom and they don't build thatinner wisdom.
And so there is a huge elementof allowing children to fall,
fall over, make mistakes and beokay with failure, because that
leads to the wisdom.
Leon Goltsman (17:58):
Yeah.
So parents often ask how do Iraise confident children in a
world full of comparison andnoise?
I mean, people are alwayscompeting on social media,
neighbours children are reallyfinding, and not just children.
But we could see from theamount of mental health and the
suicides in young children a lotof that.
(18:19):
People don't even realisewhat's going on until,
unfortunately, it's too late.
So, from your experience, whatreally builds inner confidence
in young people and how canparents or educators support
that process?
Sophie Firmager (18:32):
the first step is helping them connect to who
they are and developing an innerself-validation or intrinsic
motivation around things.
Because when you realize who itis that you are and you are
proud of who it is that you are,you are less inclined to
compare yourself to othersbecause you've got a self-love
(18:54):
within.
And the other thing that reallyis crucial to teach kids early
on is collaboration is whatmakes the world go round,
whether it's you when you growup to be an adult, in your
family unit or in the community,or whether it's in the
workplace.
Collaboration is the only waythings get done and how we build
(19:19):
collaboration is through theschooling and how parents are
raising them in their homes.
Leon Goltsman (19:27):
But also I've found that having healthy
boundaries is also a key thing.
Well, it is for adults, but ifchildren don't develop that
early, how are they going tohave this skill when they get
older?
Sophie Firmager (19:40):
Yeah, yeah.
So healthy boundaries are ofparamount importance.
I personally the way that Iteach my son healthy boundaries
are of paramount importance.
I personally the way that Iteach my son healthy boundaries
is by being the living exampleof what you know really leads to
a flourishing life.
So I have daily exercise.
(20:01):
I do daily exercise.
I eat nutritious food.
Yes, I have days where I havecheap meals, but for the most
part I eat really well.
I make sure that I consume theright content throughout the day
.
So whether it's through TV, themovies that we watch, social
media, so all of that, you needto create boundaries for the
(20:23):
kind of content that you'reconsuming.
So if he's watching me as thatsort of living example that is
setting those healthy boundariesand is feeling good in life,
then he's going to be moreinclined to adopt those
practices.
Leon Goltsman (20:40):
So you're being a great role model and, I suppose
, a mentor and a friend.
Sophie Firmager (20:44):
Yeah, exactly.
Leon Goltsman (20:46):
So you've seen the impact of safe spaces in
your work, places where peopleare encouraged to speak up and
reflect and grow.
So how can we create similarspaces for children, one that
supports emotional intelligence,values, discovery and
leadership from within?
Sophie Firmager (21:02):
Psychological safety is such a buzzword, but a
lot of times it's used inorganizational settings.
It's supposed to mean that ifyou have a psychologically safe
environment, that you havepeople that are more willing to
take risks, to make mistakes, touse their voice, to speak up
when things are not going right.
(21:22):
But a lot of people outsourcepsychological safety to the
organization or leaders right so, to the CEO, to the HR leader.
They don't realize the partthat they are playing in
creating psychologically safespace, and the thing that
children need to do is torealize that they need to take
(21:45):
ownership for how it is thatthey show up.
So, for example, if you areafraid to admit a mistake, use
it as data, use it as whenyou're reflecting, or create
space for reflection and askyourself the question why is it
that I'm afraid to make amistake, or why is it that I'm
afraid to speak up when I noticesomething that is not right and
(22:11):
I want to use my voice to speakup against it?
As soon as you start askingthose reflective questions, you
are able to get back to yourvalues so what's important to
you?
And then you make values-baseddecisions around.
Okay, next time I make amistake.
I value growth.
So I'm going to own up to thatmistake and I'm going to see
(22:32):
feedback as the key toup-leveling.
So there's no failure, there'sonly feedback.
And that belief system helpsyou continue to value making
mistakes, so that becomes acontinued evolution process it
seems like there is no suchthing as a mistake, little
milestones and you're breakingit down in little, little
(22:54):
successes the way I see exactly.
Leon Goltsman (22:57):
I know a lot of people talk about mistakes and
and problems and issues.
That only becomes that if it'snot managed properly.
Sophie Firmager (23:05):
So I've spent decades working with CEOs and
senior leaders within top 100organizations across the world,
and whether it's to support themwith driving organizations that
flourish, or whether it'ssupporting them on their
individual journeys and what weare doing now is we've created
(23:27):
this incredible program.
So, using the same sort oftechniques that I have used for
these senior leaders, we havetailor-made program for young
children, helping them becomefuture leaders.
This program includes workshops, reflective journaling, small
group sessions to really helpwith the skills individually
(23:50):
tailored to build the capabilityof a future leader.
Leon Goltsman (23:54):
So, sophie, I've seen the glimpse of this program
, and it's not just one program,there's several there that are
tailored, as you said, toindividual needs of future
leaders.
Not only does it give some kindof hope to those people who
might be experiencing somechallenges, some kind of hope to
those people who might beexperiencing some challenges
early on in life, that I couldsee this being so beneficial to
(24:19):
the parents and to the peoplewho put a lot of faith and love
and trust in these people.
I wish I could say the systemis always going to look after
them.
Unfortunately, we've seen thatit doesn't always look after the
best interest of people, and soit really is up to the
individual parents and guardianswho look after the future
generation and the futureleaders of today.
You're certainly making thatpossible.
(24:41):
So, sophie, if someonelistening is thinking I want
this for my kids, but I justdon't know where to begin.
What's the one small butpowerful action they can take
this week to start raisingleaders in their own home?
Sophie Firmager (24:54):
So one of the most powerful actions that a
parent can take this week is tosit down with their child and
have a conversation to get onthe same page, one where you're
actively listening to what it isthat is going on for them.
You're actively listening towhat it is that is going on for
them, listening without judgment, listening without interjecting
(25:18):
, and wait to see what you learn, because you could discover the
very thing that will bring tolight how you can support them
in their future.
Leon Goltsman (25:24):
Or ways that you can help them support themselves
.
Sophie Firmager (25:27):
Yeah, exactly right, exactly right.
One of the things that I dowith my own child every three
months to get him clear onwhat's important to him and how
satisfied he is in differentparts of his life is a life
balance activity, and that helpshim get clear on what it is
that he needs to move forward inthat term.
Leon Goltsman (25:49):
Is there a particular age group it works
for, or is it something thatworks for everybody?
Sophie Firmager (25:55):
Oh, it works for everyone.
It works for adults too.
Leon Goltsman (25:58):
So, look, I've seen this tool.
It's a very effective tool andI can see why it's so successful
.
For anyone that wants tocontact you and get some more
information, what is the bestway they can reach out to you?
Sophie Firmager (26:10):
They can send me an email, sophie, at
realisedpotentialgroupcom.
Leon Goltsman (26:14):
Okay, so I will put that in the show notes.
There'll be that and otherlinks perhaps.
But, sophie, you certainly havethe tools, you have the
know-how, you have theexperience to not just make it
easier for people seeking tomake it to the next level,
whether it's their personal orprofessional life, but you've
also got the ability and yourupcoming programs, which I
(26:36):
really can't wait to share withthe audience.
I think that's going to be areal big game changer,
especially in a day and agewhere there are a lot of
unpredictabilities and we dorely on a system that often can
let us down.
Unfortunately, we don't live ina perfect world and so many
people outsource their faith andtrust in so many other people
(27:00):
and other organisations.
But I think, as you've saidearlier and you've hit the nail
on the head, is you've got tolook for the solution, for the
answers, from within.
Sophie Firmager (27:09):
Absolutely.
Leon Goltsman (27:10):
So thank you very much for joining us and looking
forward to doing great thingstogether.
Sophie Firmager (27:16):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much, Leon.
It's such a pleasure to be herewith you.
Leon Goltsman (27:21):
And what a powerful conversation that was
with Sophie Firmager a reminderthat leadership doesn't start
with a title.
It starts at home, in the waywe guide, listen and lead by
example.
We spoke about the real gaps inour system, the things schools
don't teach, the emotionalchallenges our kids face and the
(27:42):
importance of helping thembuild inner strength and not
just academic results.
And not just academic results.
Sophie's work through theRealize Potential Group gives
parents, carers and educatorsthe tools to raise confident,
emotionally intelligent futureleaders, starting now.
If you'd like to connect withSophie, reach out directly at
(28:04):
sophieatrealizepotentialgroupcom.
I'm sure she would love to hearfrom you and I want to hear
from you too.
What did this episode spark foryou?
What are you doing today thatyour future child, student or
community will thank you for?
Email me anytime atleongoltzman at ecohqcomau,
(28:29):
because this podcast isn't justabout the voices we feature.
It's about the community we'rebuilding together.
If this conversation resonated,do three quick things.
Follow the show on yourfavorite platform and, yes,
we're available on all majorones.
Share this episode with someonewho cares about raising the
(28:50):
next generation.
Share this episode with someonewho cares about raising the
next generation and leave aquick review to help others find
and join the conversation.
Once again, a special thanks toNiaz Kanath and the team at
Invest Intelligence, proudlong-time supporters of this
program and believers inpurpose-driven progress.
I'm Leon Goltsman, and untilnext time, let's keep showing up
(29:11):
, let's keep leading and let'skeep building the type of future
that we can all be proud oftogether.
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